Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-10-25

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:25 sorear aloha, seen pmichaud
00:25 aloha sorear: pmichaud was last seen in #perl6 2 days 7 hours ago saying "yes, nom here also".
00:25 sorear aloha, seen TimToady
00:25 aloha sorear: TimToady was last seen in #parrot 22 hours 36 mins ago joining the channel.
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00:54 sorear OK.
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00:54 sorear \o/
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02:04 sorear huh.  /usr/bin/time says that compiling STD took 28.88s user 369.84s system
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02:33 sorear 2 + 2\n is working
02:33 dalek niecza/master: a4be785 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
02:33 dalek niecza/master: Make LTM robust to missing subrules
02:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a4be7850c485e8c689a06d8061dbb2878871865e
02:33 dalek niecza/master: 351fbdd | sorear++ | / (5 files):
02:33 dalek niecza/master: More STD fiddles
02:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/351fbdd22644ab4d3eb4c72292cd51eded28cbf8
02:33 dalek niecza/master: b46f714 | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
02:33 dalek niecza/master: Implement our %@ vars
02:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b46f71462c61970ee5203a1b01ed58b5d8c5da6c
02:33 dalek niecza/master: d4cfcab | sorear++ | / (4 files):
02:33 dalek niecza/master: Run mergeback
02:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d4cfcabb1ac319b57276495055a5031db2c7184a
02:33 dalek niecza/master: f288668 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
02:33 dalek niecza/master: Allow .shift from an empty list like P5
02:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f288668af593a462322f4dbeb26e050109aabcc4
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03:04 sorear /usr/bin/time says 30s user 360s system 800s elapsed.  dstat says system never went over 10%.  what gives?
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04:07 dengel10 Hello :)
04:07 dengel10 I'm planning on modernizing an IRC infobot I built years ago.
04:07 dengel10 and figure Perl 6 should be fun :)
04:07 dengel10 would anyone know of a skelleton irc bot in Perl 6?
04:08 dengel10 so I can build on top the fetures of my infobot
04:12 meppl someone could write a irc-module   http://modules.perl6.org/
04:32 dengel10 looking
04:33 dengel10 well... I tried. Found a pretty compact and easy one in C. Will build on top of that.
04:33 dengel10 THanx anyways.
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04:46 dalek niecza/master: 5b07e77 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
04:46 dalek niecza/master: More STD fiddles - 'foo' and "foo" work
04:46 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5b07e7737e96af6c912332b5a12ccb441ddb6461
04:46 dalek niecza/master: 412a5eb | sorear++ | src/CompilerDriver.pm:
04:46 dalek niecza/master: Generate Mono debug symbols
04:46 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/412a5eb49967c1b611c52d80c85869ae70a1fcfb
04:46 dalek niecza/master: 4c508d4 | sorear++ | lib/SAFE.setting:
04:46 dalek niecza/master: Improve Numeric context handling
04:46 dalek niecza/master:
04:46 dalek niecza/master: Also regexes use Str context
04:46 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4c508d429af14b709adf96c82172b339e934789b
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05:00 sorear hmm, niecza is running into memory issues with STD
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06:22 dalek niecza/master: aee9ca3 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
06:22 dalek niecza/master: Fix <.nonexistant> LTM crash, broken default <.ws>
06:22 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/aee9ca3a2ba178d3f16701c2299313b03b7dcd8d
06:22 dalek niecza/master: 421c88f | sorear++ | v6/ (3 files):
06:22 dalek niecza/master: More STD tweaks
06:22 dalek niecza/master:
06:22 dalek niecza/master: Now working: %*MYSTERY, q (foo), class { }
06:22 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/421c88ff8605f2bb9d2dff641e7cc5a51d7c4e58
06:22 dalek niecza/master: ff5e4b8 | sorear++ | src/RxOp.pm:
06:22 dalek niecza/master: <x> || <x> should not cause List
06:22 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ff5e4b8588715613142547e14ee0e5b8ca3a8ceb
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07:26 dalek niecza/master: cb10d14 | sorear++ | v6/ (5 files):
07:26 dalek niecza/master: More STD tweaks; my $foo = 2 works now
07:26 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cb10d1431299cc14b4216da124fd2560fb0f4005
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07:34 sorear soooo many bugs.
07:34 Trashlord bugs on pugs
07:35 au|irc snoopy on snails
07:36 sorear au o/
07:36 au|irc hey sorear \o :)
07:38 sorear niecza-compiled STD can parse 1000 repetitions of $*foo = $*bar / $*quux orelse $*moo(1,2,3); in 1 minute exactly
07:38 au|irc woot!
07:38 au|irc "niecza-compiled STD" is music to my ears
07:41 sorear viv-compiled STD requires 2m 5s
07:41 sorear it only barely works
07:41 sorear it's riddled with inscrutable miscompilations
07:42 sorear I have reached one peak, and only now do I see how long the road is
07:43 au|irc *nod* the journey of a thousand miles continues with another single step :)
07:43 sorear I am not sure how I will ever compete with Perl 5 on parsing speed
07:44 sorear (perhaps by focusing on precompiler support?)
07:44 sorear anyways it's far from the "30 times faster" I expected from the JSON::Tiny work
07:45 sorear the current handling of lists, I suspect, is much of the problem
07:45 sorear especially as I don't really understand them all that well - they're stolen from Rakudo and pmichaud's notes
07:48 au|irc this is the "my class List is Cool" linked list from lib/SAFE.setting?
07:52 sorear yes
07:53 sorear and its two subclasses Array and Seq
07:53 sorear looking at the runtime call traces, most uses of arrays are creating iterators built on iterators built on iterators
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07:54 sorear lots of time spent around List!fill, ListIterator.reify, List.shift, List.clone
07:55 au|irc *nod*
07:57 dalek niecza/master: 28714cc | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
07:57 dalek niecza/master: Avoid creating List objects for tokens/rules
07:57 dalek niecza/master:
07:57 dalek niecza/master: This gets us a 4-5% speedup in STD.
07:57 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/28714cc546578db6931e94f7b39cd0ff1a64ada8
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08:12 sorear au|irc: I want to blame lazy semantics
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08:12 au|irc lazy semantics would happily take infinite blame
08:15 * au|irc just freshly got "ok 608" from "./niecza_eval test.pl" - a long way from <100 in July!
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09:51 colomon argh.  what error was "the too few positional arguments: 2 passed, 3 (or more) expected" message hiding?
09:58 colomon oh, right, use of an undeclared varible.
09:59 dalek niecza/master: e671cca | sorear++ | lib/SAFE.setting:
09:59 dalek niecza/master: Fix test failures
09:59 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e671ccada2163ba619d3a036439224b109ec3fdd
09:59 dalek niecza/master: cfa7a9d | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
09:59 dalek niecza/master: Delete optrees after code generation
09:59 dalek niecza/master:
09:59 dalek niecza/master: This saves 15-20% on the size of store files and reduces compiler memory
09:59 dalek niecza/master: usage correspondingly.
09:59 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cfa7a9dc54a907f7a0c72ffc8b72f0029e3647f7
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09:59 dalek niecza/master: dd75106 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
09:59 dalek niecza/master: Be more aggressive about deleting elided subs
09:59 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dd7510607aa6fb16f372f336b001d968567e684d
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10:15 mathw sorear: you've been busy :)
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11:45 masak oh hai, #perl6!
11:48 sjn o/
11:55 colomon \o
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12:05 takadonet morning all
12:05 masak takadonet: 'o
12:06 takadonet masak: how are u?
12:06 masak I'm fine, considering that it's Monday.
12:06 masak and u?
12:08 takadonet doing ok. Going to be a long week
12:08 masak aye.
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12:27 jnthn o/ from England
12:27 * jnthn made it here alive
12:29 masak jnthn! \o/
12:29 masak hm, interesting ohloh comparison: http://twitter.com/dukeleto/status/28675662260
12:29 jnthn masak!
12:32 jnthn lunch time here :)
12:35 masak I must say I like that graph. one can discern a rise in Rakudo contributors from it.
12:36 bbkr moritz++ # article about core modules.
12:39 masak sorear++ # first hill! yay!
12:40 masak sorear: I just want to say that I think your work on making parsing fast is very important.
12:40 colomon what caught my attention about the graph is the drop-off in Rakudo contributors around R* release...
12:45 takadonet wonder if jnthn commits on his branch count toward that counter
12:49 colomon makes me feel again that we need something to push for...
12:53 takadonet improve speed?
12:53 masak easier said than done, but yes.
12:53 masak I think "speed" is at the top of most people's list.
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12:54 takadonet so the people who can 'easily' change that worry about it while the rest of us write frameworks :)
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13:01 masak something like that.
13:02 daxim what's the best data structure in p6 to represent a multiset and operate on it?
13:02 masak daxim: Bag?
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13:03 daxim cool, a built-in
13:04 colomon takadonet: "speed" is great, but it's also very nebulous.
13:04 daxim rakudo: my Bag $b = (1,2,2,3,4,5,5,6,,7,8,); say $b
13:04 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤In "my" declaration, typename Bag must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at line 22, near " $b = (1,2"␤»
13:04 masak here's a best-case scenario: during the past two-three years, Rakudo has grown in number of features, and people say "that's very nice, well done, but why is it so slow?". during the next two-three years, Rakudo will get faster through some means (improvements in Parrot, internal optimizations in the nqp-rx/Rakudo stack, trying out a .NET version of Rakudo, etc), and then, in 2014 or so, we will have a fast Rakudo with all the features
13:04 masak of today *and* more.
13:04 colomon it's also unclear how much of it is achievable by mere mortals.
13:04 masak colomon: please explain to me what you mean by "nebulous" here.
13:04 masak I agree it's not a one-dimensional thing.
13:05 masak but it's clearly something that can be measured in various ways, albeit with difficulty.
13:05 colomon masak: I mean that "R* in April" was an easy to understand goal.
13:05 colomon for people to work towards.
13:06 masak right, but the "R*" part consisted of a number of subgoals and sub-subgoals.
13:06 colomon The equivalent would be something like "10x faster by Christmas".
13:07 colomon Just saying "speed" doesn't provide much direction or urgency
13:07 masak true.
13:07 masak this all reminds me of a certain pie-throwing incident in 2002.
13:07 colomon pie-throwing?
13:07 masak I wasn't yet active then, but I've backlogged over the event.
13:07 colomon I can only recall hearing of mug throwing.
13:07 masak yes, the Parrot pumpking was Dan at the time.
13:07 masak he made a bet, concerning Parrot, Python and speed.
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13:08 masak he lost, for various non-trivial technical reasons.
13:08 masak I've heard it muttered that in some ways, Parrot still suffers from the hasty hacks put into the VM for the sake of winning that bet.
13:10 masak http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/000370.html
13:10 masak actually, there's a whole category about it: http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/cat_piethon.html
13:11 masak (sorted reverse-chronologically, it seems)
13:13 takadonet masak: I find it amazing that you know about this
13:13 masak why? I'm a Perl 6 historian on my spare time.
13:14 takadonet I know but you about 10 years to go thry
13:14 takadonet thru*
13:15 masak I can't claim to have a complete overview of it all. it sure is a lot of text.
13:16 PerlJam I was around and paying attention back then and I don't have a complete overview of it all  :)
13:16 colomon anyway, I don't know that "10x faster in N months" is the right thing to go for.
13:17 colomon but I do feel like we need something to provide motivation and direction
13:17 colomon perhaps porting N major Perl 5 modules might be a good alternative
13:18 PerlJam colomon: What does "porting" mean exactly?
13:18 colomon PerlJam: somehow making them work with Perl 6
13:18 PerlJam by hook or crook?
13:18 colomon I was thinking rewriting, but if there are better alternatives...
13:19 PerlJam Perhaps it's just the mood I'm in this morning, but I see nothing but problems with the ideas of some percentage increase in speed *and* porting some number of modules.
13:20 colomon rewriting would be a great way to stress Rakudo in nice bug-findy ways, while providing useful modules in the end.
13:20 PerlJam (problems with them as rallying points for the Perl 6 community I mean)
13:20 colomon PerlJam++
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13:22 PerlJam though as I think it through a little more, most of the problems I see are due to the "parrot implementation barrier" that we're likely to run across.
13:22 colomon Hmmm... maybe we should make N = 6 throughout.  six modules & 6x faster, all in 6 months.  :)
13:23 PerlJam <insert biblical references to 666 at will>
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13:35 colomon The 666 plan!  Ooooo....
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13:38 takadonet colomon: which ones? :)
13:38 colomon which modules?
13:38 takadonet yes
13:39 colomon I wouldn't know.
13:39 takadonet should find which module are the most used and port them.
13:40 takadonet minus frameworks
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13:46 colomon http://stats.cpantesters.org/leadercpan.html#top20distros
13:46 takadonet colomon: I was just looking at that...
13:47 takadonet colomon: http://ali.as/top100/
13:48 colomon volatile 100, maybe
13:48 colomon ?
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13:48 takadonet probably a good place to choice
13:49 takadonet some are already build in
13:49 colomon Text-Tabs+Wrap
13:49 colomon File-Path
13:50 colomon Scalar-List-Utils
13:50 colomon ?
13:50 colomon (I mean, as possible candidates...)
13:52 takadonet I believe some of the fcn of Scalar::List::Utils are built-in
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13:52 colomon takadonet: I'm sure you're right there.
13:52 takadonet never heard of Text::Tabs+Wrap
13:52 takadonet should be easy to do..
13:53 colomon actually, List::Utils appears to be entirely in p6's core already.  :)
13:53 colomon Scalar::Utils, on the other hand...
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13:57 takadonet well I might actually make a commitment here.... I port Text::Tabs and Text::Wrap modules
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14:00 colomon takadonet++
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14:06 masak takadonet: make sure you check out the Str.indent built-in (mentioned in S32-setting-library/Str.pod)
14:06 colomon but NYI
14:07 takadonet masak: sounds good
14:07 masak colomon: would be a nice weekly challenge, methinks.
14:07 takadonet masak: what would?
14:07 masak implementing .indent
14:08 takadonet ah
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14:33 dalek 6model: 1364eb1 | mberends++ | dotnet/compiler/ (2 files):
14:33 dalek 6model: [dotnet/compiler] streamline build and test scripts for Mono on Linux
14:33 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/1364eb1f188ef960708df851b7ea71977b72dfda
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14:54 dalek 6model: 07f57e1 | mberends++ | java/runtime/ (8 files):
14:54 dalek 6model: [java/runtime] catch up to dotnet in throw and catch handlers
14:54 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/07f57e1ffe9432d3b19d25ae31ed9b473bc80f6f
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15:46 masak I said that the pie was in 2002. however, looking at http://www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/cat_piethon.html it is evident that it was in 2004.
15:50 takadonet masak: still looking at that?
15:50 masak off and on, yes.
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15:51 masak I have an unhealthy relationship to browser tabs...
15:53 takadonet heh
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15:58 masak swim &
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17:14 isBEKaml OHHAI, #perl6! :)
17:14 phenny isBEKaml: 24 Oct 18:49Z <masak> tell isBEKaml that I'd like to conspire over Yapsi with him. :)
17:14 colomon \o
17:15 isBEKaml colomon: how's things on a monday? :)
17:15 colomon I'm insanely tired
17:15 isBEKaml phenny: tell masak I'd be glad to be a co-conspirator!
17:15 phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
17:16 colomon but accomplishing things for $work, and it's hourly pay $work, too.
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17:16 colomon I've also been scheming on how to inspire the Rakudo development process.  (Check the backlog.)
17:16 isBEKaml I think I can understand that - I've been terribly tired over the past month as well. One of the reasons I'm off on a vacation this weekend.
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17:17 colomon In this case, it has something to do with waking up at 4:30 am and having a cat wake me up every time I came close to getting back to sleep.
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17:18 isBEKaml well, I was actually suffering from a bout of insomnia after some lull. So, sleep was becoming insanely difficult and I sorely wanted to sleep!
17:19 isBEKaml [backlog] I think you're referring to the need for adding more libraries to core perl6?
17:19 isBEKaml rakudo: (1/0).say
17:20 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
17:20 PerlJam isBEKaml: more action and excitement to Perl 6   :-)
17:20 isBEKaml rakudo: (1/0.0).say
17:20 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
17:20 colomon Well, I was mostly looking for things to inspire -- what PerlJam++ says.
17:20 colomon modules seemed a good potential choice.
17:21 isBEKaml 12:40 colomon what caught my attention about the graph is the drop-off in Rakudo contributors around R* release...
17:21 colomon pretty sure there's been a similar drop-off in actual changes to rakudo's source.
17:22 isBEKaml I remember moritz_++ adding a few potential modules as part of weekly (or newbie) challenges... must be somewhere around.
17:22 isBEKaml (mu repo, I think)
17:23 isBEKaml phenny: tell masak, about the 1/0 result in java - you'd better understand the difference if you try 1/0 and 1/0.0. Java treats real and integers on different scales. :)
17:23 phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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17:26 isBEKaml one thing I find LTA is the amount of memory rakudo consumes and the high startup times involved. This is especially aggravated on older machines with less than 1G of RAM.
17:26 * colomon admits he hasn't had less than 4G of RAM in a machine in years.  unless you count his phone.
17:27 * isBEKaml admits he hasn't seen machines with over 2G of RAM unless you count his phone.
17:27 PerlJam you know how people are always saying how Perl 6 isn't "real"?  I don't think they really believe that Perl 6 doesn't exist so much as they believe it isn't on par with other languages.  Perl 6 is kind of a toy or a hobby project.
17:28 PerlJam It's got neat features and syntax and such, but it's slow and not all put together.
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17:28 isBEKaml I think one way to correct the "hobby" perception is more activity on the mailing lists. That'd give out a more serious message to the world than just sticking around on IRC conversations.
17:29 PerlJam isBEKaml: I think the mailing lists are just as invisible.
17:29 isBEKaml PerlJam: that's exactly my point. Why not make it more active and visible?
17:29 PerlJam I mean, even if there were more activity on the mailing list, I don't think it would help.
17:30 isBEKaml It'd sure help - provided you point people towards mailing lists than IRC channels. Maybe, perl6.org could help in there.
17:31 isBEKaml IMO, IRC channels tend to look like a bunch of people goofing off all day. NOM.
17:33 mkramer isBEKaml: which open source communities have you been involved in building?
17:33 isBEKaml mkramer: this is the first one I'm involved in. :)
17:34 PerlJam You what would make developing in Perl 6 nicer for me?   If I never saw a parrot error.  Granted, I could limit my ability to diagnose and fix some errors that way, but I like having the conceptual wall where I never see parrot.
17:35 PerlJam (I don't know why that is.  I don't have anything in particular against parrot, I just want to see "Perl 6 errors")
17:35 isBEKaml parrot leakages still happen? I thought jnthn++ fixed that a while ago?
17:38 PerlJam Maybe that would make a good jihad for Perl 6.  Sharpen the boundary between Rakudo and the underlying VM  :)
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17:39 isBEKaml I think that'd be the case for parrot, not for perl6. =)
17:39 Khisanth joined #perl6
17:45 isBEKaml (I think the job of demarcating the works between the outside world and the VM is best left to the VM)
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17:57 isBEKaml Found the list of project-ideas that moritz_++ put up sometime ago: misc/helpnow/README (mu repo)
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18:10 takadonet can you do a substitution and capture at the same time??
18:15 flussence "$str ~~ s/(.)//;" doesn't populate $/, but "$str ~~ /(.)/" does... I don't think it's possible
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18:23 takadonet I have this perl 5 line : '          $in =~ s/^TEST\s*(\d+)?\s*(\S+)?\n//; '
18:23 takadonet My hack for now is to simply going to call it twice
18:23 takadonet flussence: thanks anyway :)
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18:39 Chat2643 horny female 23 years have pics;)
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18:57 sorear good * #perl6
18:57 takadonet sorear: yo
18:57 isBEKaml hi sorear
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19:04 diakopter Chat2643: that's a tad OT
19:08 Raynes Just a tad.
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19:13 dalek 6model: fd17228 | mberends++ | dotnet/runtime/ (24 files):
19:13 dalek 6model: [dotnet/runtime] if the Java version cannot use the var type declaration, I don't see why the C# version should ;)
19:13 dalek 6model: review: http://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/fd172283279114dead7fb60ec09634e1643375d8
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19:24 Eliranon hi all.. I have simple question, is perl6 going to replacing perl5 or they will always both exist? Perl5 was preferred for all sys admins and web developers.. what about perl 6?
19:25 PerlJam Eliranon: They will coexist.
19:25 PerlJam Eliranon: we can't say if that will *always* be the case, but that's what we think will happen for the foreseeable future.
19:25 takadonet Eliranon: An example would be C and C++
19:27 Eliranon so can we say that for a sys admin for example, there will be no need to take a look at perl6? who will be the people who use it mostly?
19:28 takadonet Eliranon: It will be used as broad as Perl 5 and probably beyond
19:29 PerlJam Eliranon: we can't predict the future.  People will use what they find useful.
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19:33 Eliranon one last question, I used perl5 regular expressions extensively in my work to create reports effectively and fast.. do you recommend me to check perl6? and why (if yes) :)
19:36 sorear Not yet.
19:41 PerlJam Eliranon: if you have an interest in languages/grammars/regex, you should look at the features Perl 6 has to offer.  But if you want fast execution speed, we're not there yet at all.
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19:45 Eliranon @PerlJam: When I started using perl for report generation around ten years ago I fell in love with the language.. so I will check the regex/grammar of Perl6.. I am sure perl6 will get fast someday and I may use it for a couple of years (before retirement) :D
19:45 jackyboy Standalone rules are not supported yet are they?
19:47 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
19:47 pmichaud standalone rules are only available through variables at the moment -- e.g.:    my $rule = rule { ... };   / $rule /
19:47 jackyboy ahhh ok
19:47 jackyboy thats what i thought
19:47 jackyboy thanks mate
19:47 pmichaud we're still working out how the semantics should work for named rules and regexes outside of a grammar
19:49 jackyboy interesting
19:49 PerlJam that read an awful lot like "we're still waiting for miracle to occur" in my head  :)
19:49 jackyboy shouldn't it be quite simple?
19:49 jackyboy (not that I know much about it)
19:49 PerlJam jackyboy: We thought so at first too.  Turns out it's not that simple.
19:50 PerlJam But, "waiting for a miracle to occur" is also roughly equivalent to "waiting for Larry's brain to intuit an elegant solution" too, so there's still hope.
19:50 PerlJam (at least in my head)
19:50 pmichaud I think we have the outlines of a solution, although it's not entirely elegant yet
19:50 sorear the interesting case is #`( in setting ) sub uc($fo) { ... }  #`( in user code )  grammar G { rule uc { .. }; ... <uc> }
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19:51 sorear should <uc> bind to the lexical &uc (which would be utterly wrong), or should it "fall back" to looking in the grammar?
19:51 pmichaud that one isn't too bad, it's clear the nested <uc> should use the one from the grammar (due to lexical scoping)
19:51 pmichaud more interesting is
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19:52 pmichaud grammar G { rule uc { ... };  rule xyz { <uc> }; };    rule uc { ... };   / <G::xyz> /
19:52 pmichaud or a variety of other inheritance-related items
19:53 jackyboy ooo
19:53 slavik1 what is the top rule? used to be rule TOP
19:53 pmichaud it's still TOP by default
19:54 jackyboy so for the moment we should just put everything into a grammar?
19:55 pmichaud or use variables for rules :-)
19:55 jackyboy but if you use variables for rules how do you nest them?
19:55 jackyboy i.e. my $rule = rule {<date> \s+ <name>}
19:55 pmichaud my $abc = rule { abc };   my $def = rule { $abc };   # works fine
19:55 jackyboy and then defining <date> and <name> rules
19:56 jackyboy ooo
19:56 jackyboy ok
19:56 sorear that ought to be <$abc>
19:56 pmichaud can also use  <$abc>
19:56 pmichaud and if you want to capture it, it's   <abc=$abc>
19:56 jackyboy cheers
19:56 pmichaud (that's the part we're not very happy about at the moment)
19:56 jackyboy yeah it seems a little clunky
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19:57 jackyboy but I love how perl6 is turning out
19:57 jackyboy :)
19:58 sorear ... yuck.
19:58 sorear S05 really does say that $foo in a regex treats Regex and Str differently
19:59 pmichaud basically,   $foo means "if it's not a regex, make it a literal string match"
19:59 pmichaud <$foo>  means  "if it's not a regex, stringify and compile to regex"
19:59 pmichaud (with special rules for arrays and the like)
20:00 sorear well, as a static compiler hacker, I'm not too thrilled with the second one ;)
20:01 pmichaud it's dynamic pretty much no matter what you do :-|
20:01 pmichaud (since they're variables)
20:01 sorear how much of the List guts I stole from you are part of the Perl 6 spec?
20:01 sorear will the spectests be directly working with ListIter objects?
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20:33 dalek niecza/master: 71c2d1e | sorear++ | / (3 files):
20:33 dalek niecza/master: Avoid repeated invalidation while constructing classes
20:33 dalek niecza/master:
20:33 dalek niecza/master: This saves about 1 second on STD load time.
20:33 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/71c2d1e1751396b033037d9c27f5610d1a12efd1
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20:54 jackyboy so how do you access a named capture?
20:54 jackyboy I am trying
20:54 jackyboy $/<namedCapture>
20:54 jackyboy after a successful match
20:55 grew left #perl6
20:57 jackyboy or even $/{'rule_name'}<namedCapture> but that gives Any()
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21:04 jackyboy Not even $/{'rule_name'}[0] works when using a rule. Nor $/[0]
21:05 jackyboy $/[0] works for the exact same regex but copied and pasted into $string ~~ / query /
21:10 PerlJam jackyboy: show your code
21:11 PerlJam jackyboy: and show the whole code :)
21:14 jackyboy my $string = "the lazy boy couldn't code";
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21:15 jackyboy my $reg = regex { the (.*) }
21:15 PerlJam copy-n-paste into gitst.github.com or something rather than on channel
21:15 jackyboy ah ok ok
21:15 PerlJam (then just paste the link)
21:16 sorear gist
21:17 jackyboy http://gist.github.com/645778
21:18 sorear use <reg=$reg>
21:18 sorear then say $<reg>
21:18 PerlJam well, $<reg>[0]
21:19 jackyboy hmm where should I put <reg=$reg> in the example code?
21:21 jackyboy i thought in the match
21:21 jackyboy but that doesn't work
21:22 PerlJam jackyboy: if $string ~~ $reg { say $/[0] }  # should work.  you introduced an extra level of indirection when you said  m/ $reg /  I think.
21:22 jackyboy yep
21:22 jackyboy ok
21:22 jackyboy yeah
21:22 jackyboy it does work
21:22 jackyboy cheers mate
21:22 jackyboy and named captures work the same way but with $<reg><namedCapture>
21:22 jackyboy ?
21:23 PerlJam but  m/ <reg=$reg> / should have also worked  (and $/<reg>[0] would have given you your string)
21:24 jackyboy it does, I was missing the angle brackets
21:24 jackyboy I was trying $/reg[0] etc
21:24 jackyboy for a long while
21:25 jackyboy thank you
21:25 PerlJam sure
21:26 sorear $/ can be accessed as hash or as an array
21:26 sorear it's not special syntax
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21:32 PerlJam Hmm.  Is there a way to get at the capture when you do  my $r = regex { (.) };  "foo" ~~ m/ f $r o /;    # ???
21:32 Tene PerlJam: my $match = "foo" ~~ m/.../;
21:33 Tene Or did I misunderstand?
21:33 PerlJam the capture in $r is hidden.
21:34 Tene ah
21:34 Tene $<foo>=$r ?
21:34 PerlJam rakudo: my $r = regex { (.) };  "foo" ~~ m/ f <r=$r> o /; say $/<r>[0];
21:34 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«o␤»
21:34 PerlJam I want that but without naming $r
21:34 Tene yeah
21:35 PerlJam Well, I don't /want/ it as much as I wonder if it's possible now
21:35 Tene rakudo: my $r = regex { (.) };  "foo" ~~ m/ f ($r) o /; say $/[0][0];
21:35 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«␤»
21:35 PerlJam that's interesting
21:36 PerlJam rakudo: my $r = regex { (.) };  "foo" ~~ m/ f ($r) o /; say $/[0]
21:36 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«o␤»
21:37 Ross left #perl6
21:38 PerlJam (and by "interesting", I mean "a bug"  :)
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21:40 takadonet yo
21:42 dalek niecza/master: 08e051c | sorear++ | src/ (5 files):
21:42 dalek niecza/master: Allow regex embedded blocks to be inlined
21:42 dalek niecza/master: review: http://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/08e051cfa36d0365169be8b8ff6c7cf0f70741be
21:50 takadonet so close....
21:52 takadonet What I'm doing wrong here? Error: 'Adverb 'g' not allowed on m ' on line : $x ~~ ms:g/(\N+)/;
21:54 takadonet nevermind
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21:59 takadonet !!!
22:04 takadonet anyone know how to do capturing for repeat matches?
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22:32 sorear takadonet: avoid :g
22:32 sorear do you know about .comb?
22:33 takadonet ... probably I forgot
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22:53 jackyboy ooo what is .comb?
22:53 slavik1 left #perl6
22:57 arnsholt jackyboy: Inverse of split, essentially
22:58 arnsholt It returns the bits of the string that match the pattern, instead of the bits that don't match
23:00 masak joined #perl6
23:00 masak arnsholt: I wouldn't call .comb the "inverse" of .split so much as the "dual".
23:00 phenny masak: 17:15Z <isBEKaml> tell masak I'd be glad to be a co-conspirator!
23:00 phenny masak: 17:23Z <isBEKaml> tell masak about the 1/0 result in java - you'd better understand the difference if you try 1/0 and 1/0.0. Java treats real and integers on different scales. :)
23:01 icwiener_ left #perl6
23:01 masak isBEKaml: I'm aware of Java's treatment of integer division. :) it seems quite sane to me.
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23:05 jackyboy ahh cool
23:06 masak rakudo: say "1 17 314".comb(/\d+/).perl
23:06 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«("1", "17", "314")␤»
23:07 jackyboy rakudo: say "1 17 314".split(/\s/).perl
23:07 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«("1", "17", "314")␤»
23:07 jackyboy ahh very cool
23:07 masak yep. "dual" :)
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23:09 masak rakudo: say "OH HAI\nthis is a test".comb( / \N+ \n? / ).perl
23:09 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«("OH HAI\n", "this is a test")␤»
23:09 avuserow so it's similar to P5's my(@stuff) = $var =~ /(\d+)/g;
23:09 avuserow but nicer
23:09 masak now that you mention it, I guess it is, yeah.
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23:10 avuserow rakudo: say ("1 17 314" =~ m:g/(\d+)/).perl
23:10 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of =~ to do pattern matching; in Perl 6 please use ~~ at line 22, near " m:g/(\\d+)"␤»
23:10 avuserow rakudo: say ("1 17 314" ~~ m:g/(\d+)/).perl
23:10 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Adverb 'g' not allowed on m at line 22, near ").perl"␤»
23:10 avuserow rakudo: say ("1 17 314" ~~ m/(\d+)/).perl
23:10 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "1 17 314",␤ to   => 1,␤ positional => [␤   Match.new(␤    from => 0,␤    orig => "1 17 314",␤    to   => 1,␤   ),␤  ],␤)␤»
23:10 avuserow it's been a while since I've written Perl 6 :(
23:11 masak adverb :g not allowed on m?
23:11 masak I didn't know that.
23:11 avuserow me neither. useful error messages though
23:12 avuserow rakudo: say ("1 17 314" ~~ m/(\d+)/)
23:12 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«1␤»
23:12 avuserow okay so, I guess the list form of that is gone?
23:12 avuserow if that's the case, then .comb makes tons of sense and is a nicer way to write it anyway
23:16 masak I'm not sure why m:g// wouldn't work, though.
23:16 masak seems like it would be a nice service to Perl 5 people.
23:18 avuserow rakudo: say "Röyksopp".normalize
23:18 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«Method 'normalize' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/l62lkl3mUD␤»
23:18 masak rakudo: say "OH HAI\n\nthis is a test".comb( / \N* \n? / ).perl
23:18 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«("OH HAI\n", "\n", "this is a test", "")␤»
23:19 takadonet masak++
23:20 * masak is assisting takadonet a bit over privmsg :)
23:20 masak oh! note that we got a false one at the end, though.
23:20 masak rakudo: say "OH HAI\n\nthis is a test".comb( / \N* [$ | \n?] / ).perl
23:20 p6eval rakudo d49eea: OUTPUT«("OH HAI\n", "\n", "this is a test", "")␤»
23:21 masak I don't really know why we do.
23:21 takadonet works for my test cases....
23:21 masak could be a bug. or could just be me being tired.
23:21 takadonet just one more section and I will have it working!
23:22 takadonet well one sub anyway
23:28 masak and then nothing stands between you and world domination?
23:28 masak :)
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23:37 masak 'night, #perl6.
23:37 takadonet masak: no!
23:38 takadonet night
23:38 masak no? :)
23:38 rvrgs print "ei";
23:38 masak rvrgs: you Finnish?
23:38 takadonet masak: i should have something to show tomorrow for y ou
23:38 masak takadonet: looking forward to it.
23:38 takadonet well.... 12 hourish
23:38 * masak sleeps-ish
23:38 masak left #perl6
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23:50 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:51 takadonet whiteknight: hey
23:51 whiteknight hello takadonet
23:52 takadonet whiteknight: This is really a long shot but did you every play in a starwars gaming league?
23:52 whiteknight no sir
23:52 takadonet whiteknight: ok thanks
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