Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-11-10

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​e6486e55d334f3400d919db72f50d5f51459d459
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00:00 masak for those following along at home, this also means that we didn't have any spectests for &elems.
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00:00 masak someone with a spare tuit or two might want to...
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00:03 Tene might want to... submit a spec patch that removes &elems from the spec?
00:04 masak actually, it's just an exported .elems method.
00:04 masak and the Druid code that failed in its absence actually showed a decent example of when it's useful.
00:04 masak hm. I should clarify. in the spec, it's just an exported .elems method. in Rakudo, it's a sub. :)
00:07 masak if anything, I'd prefer a spec patch that regularized which methods are exported and which ones are not.
00:07 masak rakudo: say perl [1, 2, 3]
00:07 p6eval rakudo 4d33ba: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &perl␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/nwPkhmhnPH␤»
00:07 masak S32 says (twice!) that it's exported.
00:08 masak rakudo: 42.say; 42.warn
00:08 p6eval rakudo 4d33ba: OUTPUT«42␤Method 'warn' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/e1buizM9fm␤»
00:08 masak where's the consistency in the STDOUT method being there, but not the STDERR method?
00:08 Tene I'm a bit leery of the method/sub proliferation, personally.
00:08 masak I wouldn't mind it so much if it had some kind of pattern.
00:09 Tene Yeah.
00:09 Tene Exactly.
00:11 masak same thing, only more so, with the high/low-level means of type conversion. .Str/.Stringy/~, .Num/+, .list/.List (I don't even know which ones are the latest variants of this one)...
00:12 masak if these are not very, very clear and pattern-ful, they're going to be a sore point.
00:12 Tene and that last also has &list
00:12 Tene Makes me rather nervous.
00:12 masak that's ok, because there's also &hash, and then similar ones like &eager and &hyper.
00:13 masak generally, I have more sympathy for when there's a sub form *and* a method form, than for when one of them is missin.g
00:13 masak s/\.g/g./
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00:15 masak I've been reading A12 a bit today, and it boasts about the sub call form and the method call form being syntactically different but semantically equivalent. that's no longer true, and we have to compensate for that un-equivalence with a corresponding amount of design discipline.
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00:17 masak by the way: for a good time, google for 'guthlophikralique'.
00:17 masak :)
00:18 masak hi, Google searchers! o/
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00:37 masak 'night, #perl6
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01:01 Chat8352 hi
01:01 Chat8352 anyone want to chat
01:02 TimToady sure, let's chat about Perl 6
01:02 Chat8352 i just want to chat please
01:02 sjohnson haha
01:02 TimToady this is not a general chatroom
01:03 sjohnson his nickname means business
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01:05 Chat8352 ok well none of the other rooms work
01:05 sjohnson by what miracle did you find this channel, of all the other ones around
01:05 Chat8352 hi ch3
01:06 Chat8352 no one even types anything on the others
01:06 colomon sjohnson: it seems there's some sort of Blackberry chat app that keeps sending random people here.
01:06 sjohnson colomon: that's one way to say RIM is open-source friendly
01:06 Chat8352 ok so one
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01:07 sjohnson colomon: you were right!
01:08 colomon that's like the fifth time its happened in the last week
01:08 sjohnson their irc app probably works like chat-roulette
01:08 sjohnson just sticks em in a channel at random, and expects them to make friends
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04:00 lue hello o/
04:02 colomon goodnight \o
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05:18 diakopter jnthn: around?
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05:19 diakopter oh, probably not if he 'sleep&' 6 hours ago
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05:20 * diakopter back on Pangæa
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06:42 sorear good * #perl6
06:44 sorear huh
06:44 sorear Chatmosphere got a second IP
06:45 sorear ok, .200 to .207 whois to the company
06:48 sorear I would like to apologise to Lscott Sales in Evergreen, Colorado; fnmatch(3) needs to be taken out and shot
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06:59 moritz_ good morning
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07:11 diakopter sorear++ and moritz_++ fixing dalek often and quickly
07:12 diakopter sorear++ refactoring dalek's pipes/streams
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07:21 * moritz_ was barely involved
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07:35 diakopter what's the Q:PIR { } way to print()
07:37 diakopter nm
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07:39 diakopter sorear: I finally got a PAST::Regex node to compile to a Console.WriteLine() :)  <yay>
07:39 diakopter (unrelated to previous question)
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07:42 sorear so are you using nqp or nqp#?
07:44 diakopter I'm working on adding -rx to jnthn's on-clr nqp
07:44 diakopter (what you're calling nqp# I'm sure)
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07:57 diakopter std: sub else{ }; sub if{}; else if else if if else if if;
07:57 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/ak9edpAEop line 1:␤------> [32msub else{ }; sub if{}; else if else [33m⏏[31mif if else if if;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ argument list␤  statement_mod_loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
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08:09 sorear diakopter: postfix conditional if takes precedence over a sub named if
08:09 sorear else if ... looks like else() if ...
08:09 sorear then at else() if else() if, the parser is confused, postfix conditionals can only appear once in a statement
08:10 sorear no attempt is made to look for a sub, because if matches <terminator> and breaks out of expression processing
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08:19 * sorear submits it as a stress test to Niecza-STD
08:19 sorear \o/
08:21 diakopter heh
08:30 * sorear suspects diakopter may not actually have been seeking an analysis
08:30 diakopter :P
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08:38 Grimnir_ where do I see what methods a filehandle gives?
08:39 sorear rakudo: $*OUT.^methods(:all).say
08:39 moritz_ you can ask it, with  say ~$handle.^methods(:local)
08:39 p6eval rakudo e6486e:
08:39 p6eval ..OUTPUT«closeeofgetinslinesopenprintprintfsayrea​dwritegetcslurptdefslzcreatedmodifiedaccessedchan​gedautoflushpathstatNumericRealIntRatNumabsexplog​log10sqrtrootsto-radiansfrom-radiansfloorceilingr​oundtruncatesigncisunpolarchrrandsincostanseccose​ccotansinhcoshtanhsechcosechcotanhasinacosatan…
08:39 moritz_ rakudo: say ~$*OUT.^methods(:all)
08:39 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«close eof get ins lines open print printf say read write getc slurp t d e f s l z created modified accessed changed autoflush path stat Numeric Real Int Rat Num abs exp log log10 sqrt roots to-radians from-radians floor ceiling round truncate sign cis unpolar chr rand sin cos
08:39 p6eval ..tan s…
08:39 Grimnir_ thanks :)
08:39 moritz_ rakudo: say ~$*OUT.^methods(:local)
08:39 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«close eof get ins lines open print printf say read write getc slurp t d e f s l z created modified accessed changed autoflush path stat␤»
08:40 sorear to-radians, really?
08:40 sorear whose bright idea was it to make handles Cool?
08:41 Grimnir_ which one should I use to get all data from a filehandle? like do { local ($/); <STDIN> } ?
08:41 sorear $*IN.slurp
08:41 moritz_ slurp
08:41 sorear moritz_: So far I've successfully avoiding acquiring a VPS.  Would blogs.perl.org then be the best option?
08:41 Grimnir_ oh, nice
08:41 Grimnir_ thx
08:41 sorear you can also just use slurp;
08:41 sorear the function form defaults to $*IN
08:42 Grimnir_ ah, ok, thanks
08:42 moritz_ sorear: it's fine, yes. The other Perl 6 hackers seem to prefer wordpress.com, but I like blogs.perl.org
08:42 sorear ... For some reason I thought WordPress was a CMS that I had to install
08:43 moritz_ sorear: it's a blogging software, but you can also get a hosted thing for free
08:43 moritz_ that's what the advent calendar used
08:43 * sorear observes that moritz is using perlgeek.de
08:44 sorear ...perl6advent.wordpress.com, is that the right link?
08:44 sorear oh
08:44 moritz_ sorear: I've built my own blogging stuff out of my offline CMS and blosxom, a very un-modern perl blogging thing :-)
08:44 sorear misparse
08:45 moritz_ and I regret some of the decisions I made for my own blogging stuff
08:45 moritz_ it won't scale
08:47 mathw yes, wordpress.com is the hosted wordpress service, and wordpress.org is where you can get the software to install on your own server
08:48 mathw I do the latter
08:48 mathw although I very rarely actually blog these days
08:48 * moritz_ didn't know that mathw had a blog
08:49 mathw Well I do
08:49 mathw I always intended to work up to blogging a lot about Perl 6 and get it on the Planet, but then I didn't
08:49 * mathw should do some more Form coding at some point
08:50 mathw ...after nanowrimo though
08:50 mathw and write documentation, that would be good too
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08:57 sorear docs for what? ;)
08:59 mathw Form
09:05 Grimnir_ rakudo: "a".chr.say;
09:05 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«
09:06 Grimnir_ rakudo: "a".comb[0].chr.say;
09:06 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«
09:06 Grimnir_ rakudo: "a".comb.[0].chr.say;
09:06 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a'.ord
09:06 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«
09:06 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«97␤»
09:06 Grimnir_ bleh... of course
09:06 Grimnir_ lol
09:06 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a'.chr.perl
09:06 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«"\x[0]"␤»
09:08 sorear looks like there's some C code somewhere doing something stpid
09:09 moritz_ maybe inside the IRC client
09:10 sorear mine, or p6eval?
09:10 sorear who is the pumpking for misc/perl6advent-2010/topic-brainstorming ?
09:10 moritz_ sorear: tadzik is. But you can add topics without his involvement
09:11 sorear heh, tadzik's name contains characters urxvt can't render with one font
09:11 sorear So *suddenly switches to something with serifs and notably lighter* s'
09:12 moritz_ sorear: I'm not sure yet which program is to blame... will try rakudo on the command line once I've compiled it again
09:13 sorear ilbot2 isn't seeing the »
09:13 moritz_ right
09:13 sorear ilbot2 is Perl5, right?
09:13 moritz_ it is
09:13 moritz_ but it's POE magic that tries to utf-8 decode the input
09:13 moritz_ maybe it stops when it encounters illegal characters
09:14 sorear embedded nuls aren't illegal in utf-8
09:14 moritz_ right, just figured that out
09:15 moritz_ or maybe it's a new rakudobug
09:15 sorear I suspect ircd-seven
09:15 sorear it's a large C program
09:16 sorear Parrot probably has its own share of NUL bugs, but Parrot is not in a position to prevent » from being emitted
09:16 sorear since it's emitted by perl5 code in evalbot
09:16 moritz_ right
09:16 moritz_ I forgot that
09:16 moritz_ still worth checking what rakudo does with \c[0]
09:16 sorear also, you can remove "experimental" from p6eval's tagline anytime you want
09:17 moritz_ $ perl6 -e 'print "foo\c[0]bar"'|hexdump -C
09:17 moritz_ 00000000  66 6f 6f 00 62 61 72                              |foo.bar|
09:17 moritz_ looks fine
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09:19 TiMBuS its the ircd
09:19 TiMBuS !eval "abc\x0def"
09:19 TiMBuS abc
09:20 TiMBuS er. well that still should prove it i guess
09:20 TiMBuS !eval "abc\x{0}def"
09:20 TiMBuS abc
09:21 moritz_ buubot: eval: "a\x{0}b"
09:21 buubot moritz_: a\0b
09:21 moritz_ heh
09:21 sorear we ought to be escaping nuls on output
09:21 sorear like we escape \x0A
09:22 moritz_ any suggestions what to escape it to?
09:22 moritz_ .u SYMBOL FOR NULL
09:22 phenny U+2400 SYMBOL FOR NULL (␀)
09:25 sorear hmm.  I'm missing a font
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09:27 moritz_ uhm, evalbot appears twice in dalek-conf.json
09:27 dalek evalbot: 938911b | moritz++ | lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm:
09:27 dalek evalbot: escape null bytes as U+2400 SYMBOL FOR NULL, sorear++
09:27 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/​938911bff59e74c6becc95286bef4649636acb83
09:33 dalek mu: a4b8b7e | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
09:33 dalek mu: [dalek-conf.json] remove duplicate entry for evalbot
09:33 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a4b​8b7e0ced45f61f749ba4f622ed8a8427d8711
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09:35 sorear at some point I need to prune dups from that file
09:35 sorear and sanely pretty-print it
09:35 * sorear wonders whether a Niecza Project Blog or a sorear-blog would be better
09:36 moritz_ having a default branch of 'master' would let us remove quite some cruft
09:36 moritz_ sorear: an 'everything sorear has to say about Perl 6' blog would awesome
09:37 sorear moritz_: master is the default branch; that falls under "sane pretty printing"
09:37 moritz_ then I'm going to remove some master defaults
09:38 sorear I made all the defaults explicit as a side-effect of redumping the file
09:38 moritz_ what's the default for 'channels' ?
09:38 sorear [ [ "magnet", "#parrot" ] ]
09:39 * sorear has some trepidation about starting a blog... though I suppose I haven't kept very hidden on logged IRC so I shouldn't
09:39 sorear hmm.
09:39 sorear #parrot seems to have adopted "metacommitter" as official jargon
09:40 moritz_ for quite some time actually
09:40 sorear I made up that word sometime back in March while fumbling to explain some aspect of pugscode
09:40 moritz_ docs/project/metacommitter_guide.pod in the parrot repo exists since 2007
09:41 moritz_ sorear: in dalek-conf.json one URL is quite different from the rest
09:41 sorear the hq9+ one?
09:41 moritz_ github.com/chrisdolan/perl/tree/master
09:42 sorear oh
09:42 moritz_ should I remove the tree/master ?
09:42 moritz_ looks wrongisch
09:42 sorear it doesn't hurt either way
09:42 sorear the parser ignores everything after the fifth slash
09:43 sorear it regexes out the "chrisdolan/perl" part, then appends the branch list
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09:49 dalek mu: 121f5b1 | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
09:49 dalek mu: [dalek-conf] remove default branch master
09:49 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/121​f5b1ae7ca9d0b46ffdc2539eb4313336d80b5
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09:54 dalek mu: 5f5a77a | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
09:54 dalek mu: [dalek-conf] remove default chanels
09:54 dalek mu:
09:54 dalek mu: also merge the two rakudo entries, and stop monitoring the 'buf' branch.
09:54 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/5f5​a77abeb59f5ed1c3213135385ab611df228b8
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10:51 masak hi, #perl6
10:54 vxz Hello masak.
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10:56 masak lately I've been pondering whether it'd be possible to make nested classes (à la A12) mesh with current Perl 6 OO. specifically, I'm trying to determine whether the "virtual nested class" idea of A12 is too much magic or "just enough".
10:57 * moritz_ kinds thinks that nested classes only make sense when they are stritly private to the outer class
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10:57 masak well, I can certainly see them make sense in other circumstances as well.
10:58 moritz_ rakudo: say "ab\c[0]def"
10:58 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«ab␀def␤»
11:01 masak sometimes classes are even nested for no better reason than that it helps the disposition of the code.
11:01 masak a bit like we tend to put subs in methods nowadays.
11:02 masak those *are* "strictly private", but that's the default for subs. the default for package-like things is not to be.
11:02 moritz_ and that's where the problems come from
11:03 moritz_ to make a previously private sub public, you can either (1) mark it with our or (2) export it
11:03 moritz_ for (1) it's easy to see that local sub name is just a lexical alias to a fully qualified name
11:04 moritz_ and (2) just installs the the lexical alias where you use it
11:04 moritz_ however it's not so easy for type names, because fully qualified names and short names looks alike
11:05 moritz_ class A { class B::C { ... } # you wouldn't know if B::C is fully qualified, or a lexical alias, just by looking at the name }
11:05 masak nod
11:06 moritz_ class B {
11:06 moritz_ class B { }; class A { class B { }; # what's B here ? }
11:06 masak I would assume that it's the inner one.
11:07 moritz_ one possible resolution is to only ever allow fully qualified class names
11:07 moritz_ but it's not a nice solution
11:07 masak was just going to say that.
11:08 * moritz_ faster :-)
11:09 masak :)
11:09 tadzik o/
11:09 phenny tadzik: 09 Nov 22:15Z <masak> tell tadzik that neutro bootstrap worked fine on my box.
11:10 masak this is one area where I don't have any real-world experience. I haven't even been using nested classes that much in other OO languages. I'm not aware of any typical examples where nested classes turn out to be just right.
11:10 masak I'd guess it varies a lot from language to language.
11:10 masak \o, tadzik.
11:10 moritz_ anyway, that's why I suspect there's no good solution to inner classes that DWIW
11:11 masak right.
11:11 masak nom &
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11:12 mathw The only thing I really use nested classes for is in C++ when I want it to have some internal type
11:12 mathw and I often make them private
11:13 mathw I've never run into a problem with their semantics that I recall, but I'm never really doing anything elaborate - it's really just a namespacing thing that I do
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11:44 bbkr is there a phaser that can replace now BUILD known from P5 Moose (executed at the beginning of every object creation)?
11:44 zby seen chromatic?
11:44 aloha chromatic was last seen in #parrot 12 hours 26 mins ago saying "They don't include diffs, but it's a start.".
12:02 bbkr rakudo: class A { method new ()  { self.bless(*).^add_method("foo", method {say 666} ) } }; A.new.foo # bug?
12:02 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('foo')␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/MzSMQgqmnY␤»
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12:12 moritz_ bbkr: not sure if you are allowed to use ^add_method on instances, and without calling .^compose
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12:15 bbkr moritz_: but instance is blessed. so where is the problem? HOW on blessed instance should give class metaobject anyway, right? and it works the other way round: self.^add_method("foo", method {say 666} ); self.bless(*)
12:16 moritz_ bbkr: the problem is that .^add_method is an API for classes, not for instances
12:16 moritz_ $obj.^foo() desguars to $obj.HOW.foo($obj)
12:17 moritz_ so in one case you're calling a method from the meta class with an instance as first argument, and in the other with a type object
12:17 moritz_ and the spec doesn't indicate that it's OK to pass an instance
12:17 bbkr moritz_: you're a genius. clear and simple explanation :)
12:17 moritz_ if you want to add a method to a single instance, use infix does or but
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12:23 tadzik grammar changes... again:(
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12:37 bbkr ok, another question. "$instance does role { method foo{} }" works like a charm. but what if name of the method is not known in compile time but comes in variable? is there any magic syntax to express "method $name {} " ?
12:39 moritz_ you need something along the lines of
12:39 moritz_ my $role = RoleHOW.new();
12:39 moritz_ $role.^add_method($foo, method () { } );
12:39 moritz_ $role.^compose()
12:39 moritz_ $instance does $role
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12:40 bbkr testing....
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12:42 bbkr moritz_++ # trick works!
12:43 moritz_ actually I stole it from jnthn++ via timbunce++ :-)
12:48 masak bbkr: you asked about "a phaser that can replace now BUILD known from P5 Moose (executed at the beginning of every object creation)". there's a submethod called BUILD, and one called BUILDALL. it's more common to "override" those than to provide a new .new method in one's own classes. see S12 for more info.
12:52 masak this used to happen to me when I was just a subscriber to Perl 6, and not an actual coder: http://twitter.com/preluma​n/status/2316142362238976
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12:56 tadzik this still happens to me. Gotta write more
12:59 masak come to think of it, it was the same with me and Chinese characters. they used to be this exotic, mysterious medium of writing -- seemed more like something someone made up than an actual writing system.
12:59 vxz It's...both?
12:59 masak then I learned stuff about it, and it all sort of settled into a more realistic viewpoint. still pretty cool, of course, but much more tangible.
13:01 masak vxz: well, lots of people contributed to making it up, of course. in a sense, it's a continuing, massively  parallel computation. just like all other forms of human communication.
13:01 vxz masak: and the rest of the universe.
13:02 masak a hundred and fifty years ago, the universe was a steam engine. so, sure. the universe is a computation. :)
13:03 moritz_ I'm a member of an Optics graduate school, and they have this slogan "the 21st century is the century of the photon" :-/
13:03 vxz Hmmm...steam-powered computation...
13:04 masak moritz_: sounds good to me.
13:04 * vxz starts thinking about ways to power his laptop off of steam
13:04 moritz_ vxz: have fun with the cooling... :-)
13:05 vxz Good point.  Something tells me I wouldn't get the same level of portability after such a modification, either...
13:05 daxim http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Computing
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13:06 takadonet hey all
13:07 tadzik o/
13:07 vxz hello
13:07 takadonet tadzik: how are u sir?
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13:10 tadzik takadonet: oh cool, thanks
13:10 masak hi takadonet.
13:10 tadzik I'll probably get my internets @home finally today
13:11 masak "internets@home"? is that some kind of distributed-computing Internet?
13:12 masak computers use their idle cycles to emulate the Internet...
13:12 flussence .oO( my wifi's quite good at emulating dialup... )
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13:16 flussence I have a crazy idea: generating vim syntax files from p6 grammars. The more I think about it though, the more impossible it looks...
13:17 masak it wouldn't surprise me if the latter were strictly more powerful than the former.
13:18 moritz_ even if you can write such a converter for normal grammar rules, you still need to translate the operator presedence parser
13:19 arnsholt I think masak's right
13:19 arnsholt But generating them from a limited subset of Grammars might be viable
13:19 masak absolutely.
13:19 arnsholt And might make the whole process a bit simpler =)
13:20 moritz_ I think the real problem is that for syntax hilighting you need a lexer, not a parser
13:20 moritz_ and if you translate a full parser, it'll be way too inefficient
13:20 arnsholt True. Also, the vim syntax is more than a bit funky, IMO =)
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13:40 Util masak, moritz_, flussence: gimme5 (by TimToady++) translates STD.pm into Perl 5 (partially as P5 regexes, I think); it may have already done a lot of the work for you.
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13:43 moritz_ Util: or s/gimme5/viv/ these days
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13:45 neroxx rakudo: say 45 + 43
13:45 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«88␤»
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13:56 bbkr rakudo: class A { method BUILD { self does 1 } }; A.new # why recursion?
13:56 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'infix:<does>' at line 1␤  in 'infix:<does>' at line 588:CORE.setting␤  in 'A::BUILD' at line 22:/tmp/cWvRdC4dDe␤  in 'infix:<does>' at line 43␤  in 'infix:<does>' at line 588:CORE.setting␤  in 'A::BUILD' at line 22:/tmp/cWvRdC4dDe␤  in
13:56 p6eval ..'infix:…
13:57 masak bbkr: BUILD is supposed to be a submethod.
13:57 masak bbkr: did you read S12?
13:59 bbkr It says that submethod is something not inherited. But anyway - using "submethod" works, thanks!
13:59 moritz_ if it were inherited, it would be executed twice during initialization
14:06 masak A12 has a lot of wording about how methods and submethods do or don't participate in multiple dispatch, and about how multiple dispatch is an agreement of some sort between caller and callee. I don't follow it all, but it seems we've gotten rid of a lot of the complexity there.
14:09 masak hm. I think part of what disturbs me about the "Not Invented Here" and "Invented Here" terms, is that they denounce what they describe. that doesn't seem to be a very healthy thing for terms to do. and it messes with my reasoning about them. :/
14:10 masak i.e. something that was invented here is an example of the "Not Invented Here" syndrome.
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14:25 masak two nice things about serverlog statistics so far: (1) I can see referals and what people search for. (2) I can see 404s generated by links that point wrong on my page.
14:26 moritz_ so, where are you getting most visits from? planetsix?
14:26 takadonet masak: reddit?
14:27 masak hm.
14:28 masak in October, reddit won out.
14:29 masak followed, oddly, by perlfoundation.org
14:29 * moritz_ hasn't seen any posts from masak's new blog on reddit
14:29 masak "Extending the syntax" made it to reddit last month.
14:30 moritz_ right
14:30 masak ah -- seems someone kindly rewrote all the links on the perfoundation wiki.
14:30 masak someone++
14:32 masak moritz_++ # http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6​/pvc-perl6-vocabulary-coach.html
14:32 masak moritz_: s/less frequent/less frequently/
14:32 moritz_ .oO( please don't reddit that one :)
14:33 masak ok.
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14:34 moritz_ grammar fixed, masak++
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14:39 smash hello everyone
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14:40 takadonet smash: yo
14:40 smash updated benchmarks with last rakudo star release: http://gil.di.uminho.pt/use​rs/smash/rakudo-bench.html
14:40 masak smash++
14:40 takadonet smash++
14:40 takadonet smash: our do_nothing is getting better
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14:41 masak smash: prime and prime-2 are making the left graph mostly useless.
14:41 smash takadonet: yeap, that's very good..
14:41 smash masak: yeap, but you can click on those in the graph to hide them
14:41 masak oh, good.
14:42 tadzik smash: yes, what is this jump about? Were they gone before, or what happened?
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14:42 masak everything is trending slightly downwards, except prime, which has gotten slower.
14:42 masak wonder why.
14:43 smash not sure, need to look at the prime program
14:43 colomon boy, nothing in it jumps out at me as being an obvious source of the slowdown
14:43 masak smash: the underlines on the digits in the table create a lot of visual clutter, and are slightly confusing because those aren't links.
14:44 colomon ....unless it has something to do with switching from .munch to [^100]  ?
14:44 masak you're changing the scripts!?
14:45 colomon masak: had to, it wasn't actually compatible with older Rakudo.
14:45 smash the script changed, but the benchmarks re-ran for all the releases
14:45 colomon unless something weird is going on, ... what smash said
14:45 masak smash: oh, good. smash++
14:48 colomon thing is, when I add a benchmark script like that, I try to calibrate it to be about the same timing as the others in its neighborhood, so the graphs look right.
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14:48 colomon I think I added prime for the release on which it now runs so slowly.
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14:49 smash still prime scripts are exposing some weird issue that i haven't figured out yet
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14:50 smash i guess i'll start by re-running the all thing again, to make sure that there was no external process causing this behaviour
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14:51 colomon smash:
14:51 colomon smash: just rerun those two scripts, maybe?
14:52 colomon I mean, you ought to be able to quickly tell if they take 5 seconds or 200
14:52 colomon (I'm trying that locally as well.)
14:52 colomon or is the problem the other way around?
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14:53 colomon are they actually running at all on the first two versions?  maybe I targeted them to be 200 second benchmarks...
14:53 smash hmm, prime.pl with rakudo-star-2010.07 is giving a list of undef's that's why it's so quick
14:53 tadzik hah
14:54 masak there you go, then.
14:56 colomon hmm.... not sure why it wouldn't work on rakudo-star-2010.07.
14:56 colomon is that available via p6eval, perchance?
14:59 moritz_ nope
14:59 moritz_ star: say 1
14:59 p6eval star 2010.09:  ( no output )
14:59 moritz_ seems there's no star available atm
14:59 tadzik http://search.cpan.org/~broq/Git-​PurePerl-0.47/lib/Git/PurePerl.pm -- would be awesome to have a Perl 6 port, but damn, it's huuge :(
15:04 masak I think the current realities of speed would make such a port significantly less awesome.
15:07 slavik1 what is that module?
15:07 colomon It's git, implemented completely in Perl, I think.
15:10 daxim not much porcelain there
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15:15 PerlJam tadzik: It would be awesome to port Git::Wrapper
15:15 PerlJam Git::PurePerl ... not so much
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15:23 patrickas colomon, I think the problem with prime is that the scripts use %% which was !% a couple of months ago ... (but I am not sure)
15:24 moritz_ could use $a % $b == 0
15:24 colomon patrickas: believe I added %% during YAPC::NA, which was before the first R*
15:24 patrickas colomon: oh ok
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15:30 smash 'Segmentation fault' running perl6, beatiful
15:30 masak ooh, haven't seen that in a while.
15:31 colomon smash: what were you doing?
15:32 smash colomon: running prime.pl with an outdated rakudo/perl6
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15:32 colomon ah, so not with latest rakudo?
15:32 smash colomon: nope.. updating now
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15:42 smash colomon: sub next-prime doesn't get called in rakudo-star-2010.07in line: my @primes := 2, 3, next-prime.() ... *;
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15:42 moritz_ heh, different series semantics?
15:43 masak might be binding semantics that changed.
15:43 moritz_ when was the Big Series Change implemented in rakudo?
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15:43 masak ...back when sequences were called series... :)
15:43 patrickas moritz_: definetely after rakudo star 2
15:44 moritz_ so, no all-star compatible series benchmarks.
15:44 colomon smash: can we set up the bench scripts with a "do not run before version XXX" flag?
15:44 moritz_ Date:   Wed Sep 8 11:31:46 2010 +0200
15:44 moritz_ Merge remote branch 'origin/series-refactor'
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15:44 colomon smash: you can probably check for sure that is the problem by asking for @primes[2].WHAT
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15:45 smash colomon: i can try to set the "do not run  before version XXX" flag
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15:45 colomon \o/
15:46 patrickas I am not sure we are using somethign that changed with the series refactor ...
15:46 moritz_ before the refactor, the code object was on the right, no?
15:46 moritz_ no wait, that's yet another refactor
15:47 patrickas no ....
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15:48 patrickas away &
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16:50 bbkr https://github.com/bbkr/jsonrpc - working JSON-RPC client. still TO-DO is bigger than CAN-DO. it should be polished by the end of the year.
16:51 takadonet bbkr++
16:52 masak nice. please add to the ecosystem.
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16:57 daxim phenny, ecosystem?
16:57 daxim needs moar factbots
16:58 masak https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem
16:58 masak it's the repository that feeds http://modules.perl6.org
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17:04 moritz_ aloha: ecosystem is at https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem and feeds http://modules.perl6.org
17:04 moritz_ aloha: ecosystem?
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17:38 tadzik PerlJam: it'd be nice to have a module installer not depending on git imho
17:39 dukeleto tadzik: git is the new /bin/sh
17:39 dukeleto tadzik: why don't you want it as a dep?
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17:39 dukeleto tadzik: i understand that non-developers might not have it, but what would you use instead?
17:40 tadzik dukeleto: well, I'm just a bit allergic to additional dependencies and system(), that's all
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17:40 tadzik I remember on an #cpan6sketch, there was a discussion about whether to use git as a module source or not, pmichaud stated that it shouldn
17:41 tadzik ...'t be to hard or bad to write a pure perl minimal git client
17:43 tadzik bbkr: nice module, but it's Perl, not PERL :)
17:45 daxim pure perl 6?
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17:49 bbkr tadzik: changed :)
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17:57 dukeleto libgit2 is being worked on by github
17:57 dukeleto it is a pure C reentrant library that implements git
17:57 dukeleto which will then be very easy to bind to
17:57 dukeleto if someone wants to help me work on perl6 bindings to it, i would be up for that.
17:58 dukeleto it is still a dependency though
17:58 * dukeleto doesn't subscribe to the "allgeric to dependencies" philosophy
17:59 tadzik hmm, well
18:00 tadzik rather allergic to additional-dependencies-on-comple​x-things-while-the-idea-is-simple
18:00 tadzik now, we want to fetch some files, and we depend on a version control system
18:00 smash left #perl6
18:01 PerlJam simple ideas are often not-so-simple upon closer inspection.
18:02 tadzik I don't think the simplicity here is only skin deep
18:02 PerlJam also, if there's an existing round wheel, the rationale for inventing another wheel had better be good :)
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18:44 rindolf Hi all.
18:45 takadonet rindolf: hey
18:45 rindolf takadonet: hi, what's up?
18:46 tadzik hey rindolf
18:46 rindolf Hi tadzik
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18:48 takadonet rindolf: working u?
18:48 rindolf takadonet: trying to work.
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19:19 rindolf takadonet: OK, finished working for today. I set two tickets to merge today.
19:19 rindolf takadonet: and made some progress with the Mandriva Cooker Testing rpm-5.x mishap.
19:19 rindolf takadonet: and also helped some people on IRC.
19:19 rindolf All in a day's work.
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19:23 pmichaud Good afternoon #perl6
19:24 pmichaud Just checking in to say I'll likely miss today's call
19:25 pmichaud (Out of office )
19:26 rindolf pmichaud: hi.
19:26 pmichaud Hello
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19:27 pmichaud (On my cell so slow response)
19:28 pmichaud Lunch is here gtg obbligatos
19:28 pmichaud Er.  Bbl
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19:39 patrickas colomon, moritz_, smash: the problem with the primes script seems to be the binding :=
19:40 colomon patrickas++
19:40 takadonet stupid binding!
19:40 sorear good * #perl6
19:40 takadonet sorear: yo
19:41 patrickas my @primes := 2, 3, &next-prime ... 73; works on recent rakudo but not on an old one
19:41 patrickas my @primes = 2, 3, &next-prime ... 73; works on all versions
19:42 patrickas colomon: also you need to use an exact prime at the right hand side so that it works for rakudos with old series code and new sequence code.
19:44 colomon patrickas++
19:45 patrickas is the target running time a few seconds ?
19:45 colomon no, it's around 200
19:46 colomon I'm working on the change right now.
19:47 sorear moritz_: I have nested classes working, although not virtual
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19:47 patrickas colomon: ok great, I guess in that case it would need to be moved to the heavy scripts part
19:47 sorear moritz_: currently nested classes are the only way to have A::B in Niecza; I haven't figured out how "class A::B { }" is supposed to work
19:48 sorear vxz: All you have to do is plug it in :p
19:51 * PerlJam wonders what "nested classes" is supposed to mean.
19:52 sorear niecza: class Foo { class Bar { method hi { 5 } } }; say Foo::Bar.hi
19:52 p6eval niecza 4045e2e: OUTPUT«5␤»
19:54 patrickas sorear++ niecza++
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19:54 patrickas sorear: how much of the spectest can niecza pass ?
19:55 sorear none.  niecza is a static compiler and the spectest is heavily reliant on &eval
19:56 patrickas oh!
19:56 sorear "get eval working" is my long-term goal
19:57 patrickas it would be cool if niecza would go from 0% to 50% in one day :-)
19:57 sorear in order to make that happen, I need to 1. run STD.pm6 on Niecza's backend 2. port Niecza's middle end to a language which can run on the backend
19:57 sorear #1 is almost done
19:58 sorear I'm not totally sure about #2
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19:58 sorear I'm still waffling between C# and Perl 6
19:58 dalek bench-scripts: f9c4180 | colomon++ | prime (2 files):
19:58 dalek bench-scripts: Try to rewrite the prime scripts to avoid := and sequence issues in older Rakudos.
19:58 dalek bench-scripts: review: https://github.com/perl6/bench-scripts/comm​it/f9c4180b9b48a686753a4397b5a0c240611f1ca6
19:58 PerlJam std: package Foo { module Bar { class Baz { }; }; }; Foo::Bar::Baz.new;
19:58 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
19:59 sorear C# will be vastly faster to compile and run, but Perl 6 has more style points :p
19:59 PerlJam rakudo package Foo { module Bar { class Baz { }; }; }; Foo::Bar::Baz.new;  # curious  :)
19:59 patrickas sorear: I can understand the dilemma :-)
19:59 PerlJam rakudo: package Foo { module Bar { class Baz { }; }; }; Foo::Bar::Baz.new;  # curious  :)
19:59 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«Can not find sub Foo::Bar::Baz␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
20:00 patrickas colomon++, can we trigger a re-run of the benchmarks and regenrate the graphs ?
20:00 colomon I can't, dunno if anyone other than smash++ can.
20:01 patrickas I suppose we can phenny tell him to do that...
20:02 tadzik seen smash
20:02 aloha smash was last seen in #perl6 4 hours 16 mins ago saying "colomon: i can try to set the "do not run  before version XXX" flag".
20:02 patrickas phenny: tell smash colomon++ fixed the prime scripts, it would be great if you can re-run the benchmarks to generate new graphs
20:02 phenny patrickas: I'll pass that on when smash is around.
20:03 colomon patrickas: did you try my new versions of the scripts?  I still don't have older R*s around to try them against.  all I know is they still work in current Rakudo.
20:04 patrickas colomon: good idea ... no I just checked the change .... running right now
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20:11 patrickas yes they work
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20:30 dalek mu: 47e8aad | sorear++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/topic-brainstorming:
20:30 dalek mu: Add a few advent ideas
20:30 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/47e​8aadb9af1abbbf5507db2b6812f5b089dcbb1
20:32 tadzik I'm thinkiing about some voting mechanisms about advent topics. maybe doodle would be nice
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21:14 colomon patrickas++
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21:18 masak ahoy!
21:20 sorear hello masak
21:21 patrickas lolitsmasak!
21:22 tadzik yayitsmasak!
21:22 Tene ohaimasak
21:22 masak while I remember, may I remind you all that it is exactly one month before I make a Big Announcement? here's your first clue out of a possible four: http://www.amazon.com
21:23 tadzik You have a Web branch working on master?
21:23 colomon You're buying a book?
21:23 patrickas You are traveling to Brazil ?
21:23 patrickas :-)
21:23 tadzik You are a new lead guitar in Korpiklaani?
21:23 sorear You've been sued for violating some nebulous web patent?
21:23 masak that would indeed be big. I hope to have a Web branch working on master by the end of November.
21:24 masak you're all so cute. I love you.
21:24 tadzik I love the atmosphere here
21:25 masak I think the tapped water here is great.
21:25 Tene You're launching a new business competing aginst amazon, running on Web.pm on Perl 6.
21:26 masak the clue counter has closed for today. see you all in ten days.
21:26 tadzik You're writing a book!
21:26 tadzik damn, I was too slow
21:26 patrickas It's got nothign to do with amazon, and the first clue you gave us is just to mess with our heads ?
21:26 colomon You're publishing a tell-all book about the bugs in Rakudo?
21:27 masak tadzik: I am, but so are a lot of other people. it's on github :)
21:27 Tene Chapter 5: Snowman/Comet Quoting
21:27 masak :D
21:27 masak Snowman/Comet is a hit; it's both cool and hot.
21:28 jnthn Oh, I know it! masak is going to announce that Amazon is doing hosted Perl 6 on its cloud service. They give him a kickback for every CPU hour they sell, which since it's Rakudo, will be a LOT of them.
21:28 moritz_ nice plan :-)
21:28 masak clearly, I should pre-announce things more often.
21:29 tadzik that should be  a Test.pm statement
21:29 tadzik nice plan;
21:31 plainhao left #perl6
21:33 PerlJam masak: you're going to make a big announcement on Dec 10?  That's my son's birthday.  :)
21:33 * arthur-_ giving up on the perl6/mongodb driver thing, coming back in a month to see if it gets easier
21:34 masak PerlJam: didn't you say that last time too? :)
21:34 masak arthur-_: sad to hear it. hope we'll have eliminated some bumps for you till then!
21:35 arthur-_ hope so too
21:35 PerlJam masak: probably.  I'm getting old and senile.
21:35 arthur-_ i got a connection to the db, i'm already surprised to have gone that far
21:35 masak PerlJam: either that, or it's my precognition acting up again.
21:35 PerlJam Now if you have a big announcement for Jan 10, that'll be my twins' birthday
21:36 masak PerlJam: you do like decimal, don't you? :)
21:36 * masak .oO( there are 10 twins... )
21:36 PerlJam masak: 10 is my favorite number.  the pun is just a bonus  :)
21:37 PerlJam My other daughter was born Oct. 19.  Oct is the 10th month, 1 + 9 == 10.   I was born Oct 28 ... etc.  :)
21:37 PerlJam I have 10 fingers and 10 toes.
21:37 PerlJam The coincidences are astounding!
21:38 moritz_ there 10 kinds of people: those who know binary, and 9 others!
21:38 masak moritz_: *lol*
21:38 Guest83463 left #perl6
21:43 * Tene reminded of the law of fives.
21:44 Tene I had trouble remembering my girlfriend's birthday, so I worked out a mneumonic in pi: month 3, day (14-1)/.5
21:45 masak Tene++
21:45 rindolf Tene: can't you use an organizer?
21:45 rindolf Tene: with alerts?
21:45 Tene rindolf: that assumes I want to be organized
21:46 masak I have the same problem with organizers.
21:46 rindolf Tene: you can just use it to remember birthdays.
21:46 Tene rindolf: I guess.  Easier to just work up a mneumonic.  There are other reasons to want to know a birthday than "Is it today?" or "Is it one week from today?" or whatever.
21:48 HarryS left #perl6
21:48 x3nU joined #perl6
21:49 tadzik hah, get it 3 days earlier and you'll hit my birthday :)
21:49 x3nU left #perl6
21:50 tadzik and $birthday.split('.').sum.sum is 10 again!
21:50 x3nU joined #perl6
21:50 tadzik oh, one more split
21:55 sjohnson Tene == smart cookie
21:56 masak pmichaud_: <?after> may have been a hack in PGE, but at least there was an implementation. sometimes I miss it in nqp-rx. there's a place in Yapsi where I work around it, for example.
21:57 patrickas left #perl6
21:57 MayDaniel joined #perl6
21:59 Grimnir_ how do I make the number 31 come out as an ascii '1'?
21:59 Grimnir_ rakudo: 31.chr.say
21:59 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«␤»
21:59 Grimnir_ it comes out as a two byte character, it seems
21:59 Tene rakudo: 1.ord.say
21:59 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«49␤»
22:00 Tene rakudo say 0x31
22:00 Tene rakudo: say 0x31
22:00 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«49␤»
22:00 Tene wrong base, Grimnir_
22:00 Tene rakudo: 0x31.chr.say
22:00 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«1␤»
22:00 Grimnir_ ah, of course. stupid...
22:00 Tene :)
22:00 Tene No, it's an easy mistake to make.
22:01 Grimnir_ and I knew that, that's the most tsupid about it
22:01 Tene I just recognized it easily since I've made it so many times myself.
22:01 Grimnir_ :)
22:01 Grimnir_ well, thx
22:01 masak this also works:
22:02 masak rakudo: say :16(31).chr
22:02 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«1␤»
22:02 Grimnir_ nice
22:02 masak but it means the same.
22:02 masak maybe I should have written :16<31>, because that number (even if it doesn't in this case) might contain hexits.
22:05 Grimnir_ perl6 is so nice
22:05 sjohnson perl6!
22:06 Grimnir_ rakudo: my $content = "30 31 30 30 31 31 31 30"; for $content.split(" ") { :16($_).Numeric.chr.print }
22:06 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«01001110»
22:06 masak Grimnir_: see also .comb
22:06 Grimnir_ but comb takes one character at a time, right?
22:06 TobiO[weta] joined #perl6
22:07 masak rakudo: for "30 31 30 30 31 31 31 30".comb(/\S+/) { print :16($_).chr }
22:07 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«01001110»
22:07 masak Grimnir_: no, it can match zero or more characters.
22:07 masak rakudo: for "30 31 30 30 31 31 31 30".words { print :16($_).chr }
22:07 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«01001110»
22:07 Grimnir_ what's the difference between split and comb then?
22:08 Grimnir_ rakudo: my $content = "30 31 30 30 31 31 31 30"; :for $content.split(" ") { :16($_).chr.print }
22:08 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ":for $cont"␤»
22:08 masak Grimnir_: split throws away the matched things, comb keeps them.
22:08 Grimnir_ rakudo: my $content = "30 31 30 30 31 31 31 30"; for $content.split(" ") { :16($_).chr.print }
22:08 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«01001110»
22:08 Grimnir_ ah, of course
22:08 Grimnir_ nice one
22:10 masak Grimnir_: the Perl 6 culture has a bit of a .comb bias.
22:10 masak (because we like to think positively) :)
22:10 Grimnir_ hehe :)
22:10 Grimnir_ it's also nice
22:10 Grimnir_ it makes great one-liners
22:11 Grimnir_ when some of my friends start to go on a "write in base64 or binary" mode, I always find that I don't have a script for it, so I try to make it in a one-liner
22:11 Grimnir_ it's good practice
22:12 masak Grimnir_: you reminded me of this post: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/​the-genetic-code-oneliner-in-perl-6
22:12 Grimnir_ rakudo: my $dna = "ttaagg"; sub translate($dna) { "FFLLSSSSYY!!CC!WLLLLPPPPHHQQRRRRIIIMT​TTTNNKKSSRRVVVVAAAADDEEGGGG".comb[map { :4($\_) }, $dna.trans("tcag" => "0123").comb(/.../)] }; say translate($dna)
22:12 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$\\_) }, $d"␤»
22:13 masak hm, that's a superfluous \
22:13 TobiO[weta] is now known as TobiO
22:13 Grimnir_ hmm... can't get it to work
22:13 masak rakudo: my $dna = "ttaagg"; sub translate($dna) { "FFLLSSSSYY!!CC!WLLLLPPPPHHQQRRRRIIIMT​TTTNNKKSSRRVVVVAAAADDEEGGGG".comb[map { :4($_) }, $dna.trans("tcag" => "0123").comb(/.../)] }; say translate($dna)
22:14 p6eval rakudo e6486e: OUTPUT«LR␤»
22:14 masak \o/
22:14 sjohnson >.>
22:14 masak I'll see if I can fix the blog post. hadn't noticed that before.
22:14 rindolf left #perl6
22:14 masak must be a conversion error.
22:14 fhelmberger left #perl6
22:16 MayDaniel left #perl6
22:16 Grimnir_ I think I'm missing something here. what's the point with it?
22:17 masak I'll explain, but how much do you know about DNA and amino acids?
22:17 Grimnir_ not so much ;)
22:17 Grimnir_ very little
22:17 Grimnir_ I know the A, C, G, T stuff, but only extremely basic
22:17 masak oh, good.
22:18 masak that's the DNA>
22:18 masak now, that's just digital information; it needs to get "translated" into a physical structure.
22:18 sheepy joined #perl6
22:18 masak the physical structure is protein, made of amino acids.
22:18 sheepy left #perl6
22:18 masak there's a machine in our cells that takes DNA, three bases at a time, does a hash lookup and produces an amino acid.
22:19 masak it strings those together into a long chain, and folds the chain.
22:19 masak what the &translate sub above is doing is simulate the conversion from DNA bases to amino acids.
22:20 masak TimToady said TTA GGG. that translates to the amino acids L and R.
22:20 masak each letter there is actually a small molecule fragment of some sort.
22:21 masak notice how I used .comb(/.../) -- that's the part that chunks the DNA up into three bases.
22:21 masak it's all very evocative of how the cell itself does it :)
22:21 Grimnir_ very nice  :)
22:22 masak in a way, all life on Earth indirectly contains that string, "FFLLSSSSYY!!CC!WLLLLPPPPHHQQRRRRI​IIMTTTTNNKKSSRRVVVVAAAADDEEGGGG", sometimes with minor variations.
22:22 Grimnir_ is that string enough?
22:22 masak well, it's more of a lookup table.
22:23 mavrc left #perl6
22:23 masak but neither the string nor the table is actually represented in our bodies, of course.
22:23 masak it's just there implicitly, at least as far as I know.
22:23 Grimnir_ of course
22:23 Grimnir_ so how did you make that string?
22:24 masak I went to the Wikipedia article and typed down the entries of the table in some order.
22:25 masak don't remember any more exactly how I figured it out which order was right.
22:25 masak probably the structure of the table makes the order obvious-ish.
22:26 Grimnir_ :)
22:27 kjeldahl left #perl6
22:27 _kaare left #perl6
22:29 masonkramer left #perl6
22:29 masonkramer joined #perl6
22:30 masak tchrist on p6l!
22:30 flussence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1ZA8IckB8
22:30 masak and, fittingly, he writes far more than you ever wanted to know about Unicode properties! :P
22:30 flussence whoops
22:30 flussence wrong button, sorry
22:31 flussence (wrong channel too)
22:32 * diakopter gets curious
22:33 sjohnson cute video
22:33 Grimnir_ heh, pretty innocent video
22:33 Grimnir_ I imagined something really incriminating :D
22:35 sorear diakopter: are there any tos or other issues with me installing a httpd on dalek's vps?
22:35 diakopter no
22:35 diakopter feel free; nginx, lighttpd, apache, whatevs
22:35 diakopter that new ultra perl one
22:36 diakopter starman
22:38 gbacon left #perl6
22:41 amkrankruleuen left #perl6
22:41 sorear what do you recommend
22:42 sorear the only httpd I've ever used is apache2
22:42 sorear but that seems overkill for "I need to handle POST to /dalek"
22:42 diakopter heh
22:43 diakopter I'd use http://danga.com/perlbal/ or starman for that
22:44 flussence I prefer lighttpd over apache, haven't tried others though...
22:46 * sorear looks up what PSGI is
22:46 diakopter plackperl.org
22:49 diakopter ^^ anyone who wants to get excited by accurate/well-written/hype-inducing blurbs, see here
22:50 dukeleto diakopter: that looks like a very nice site
22:51 masak plack++ (plack team)++
22:51 KyleHa left #perl6
22:53 sorear diakopter: reading this wall of blurbs makes me just want to install apache2 and put a 20-line script in /usr/lib/cgi-bin
22:53 HarryS joined #perl6
22:53 sorear I AM NOT WRITING FACEBOOK HERE
22:53 diakopter hee
22:53 stkowski_ joined #perl6
22:54 masak whoa, all caps. chill.
22:54 * diakopter forgets to take off the think-long-term $dayjob hat
22:55 stkowski left #perl6
22:55 stkowski_ is now known as stkowski
22:58 hercynium left #perl6
23:03 xinming left #perl6
23:03 TobiO left #perl6
23:05 vxz I heard that perl 6 will let me write Skynet as a one-liner.
23:05 diakopter basically
23:06 masak oh, we did that back in 2006 with Pugs. it should still be in the Mu repo somewhere.
23:06 masak but it was two lines, I think. might be one line nowadays.
23:06 arnsholt =D
23:12 thundergnat joined #perl6
23:14 vxz left #perl6
23:17 ggoebel joined #perl6
23:17 thundergnat Hi perl6
23:18 ggoebel o/
23:18 ggoebel left #perl6
23:18 lidden left #perl6
23:18 thundergnat ping masak
23:18 masak pong thundergnat
23:19 thundergnat masak Hey I was looking at your druid repository and you have a few broken links in the README.
23:20 lidden joined #perl6
23:20 thundergnat extreaneous &gt; attached to the end.
23:20 masak thanks; will check.
23:20 masak thundergnat++
23:20 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:20 masak thundergnat: did you get the game running? :)
23:21 thundergnat didn't try yet
23:21 thundergnat that was on my list for this evening. :)
23:21 masak do try; but try it from the ng-compat branch.
23:21 vxz joined #perl6
23:21 masak should be just     ufo && make && PERL6LIB=`pwd`/lib perl6 druid
23:22 masak blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/no​vember-10-2010-why-dont-you-bottom-up
23:22 tadzik or use mbuild :)
23:22 masak whatever lifts your suitcase.
23:23 arnsholt masak: My friend who lived in Spain at the time commented that the really scandalous part was the familiar adress
23:24 arnsholt Apparently the "shut up" part wasn't that important =D
23:24 masak arnsholt: I can imagine.
23:24 masak arnsholt: a French teacher of mine said he came to Sweden and the first thing he saw was an advert "Have you changed your underwear today?"
23:24 masak arnsholt: for him too, the scandalous part was "du".
23:25 arnsholt Indeed
23:26 arnsholt I still struggle with the whole T/V distinction in French
23:26 arnsholt Never quite sure which is appropriate in a baffling number of contexts
23:26 masak thundergnat: seems the README itself is fine, but there's a rendering bug in github.
23:27 masak unless it's a feature, and I'm just a victim of it.
23:28 masak thundergnat: links should be fine now. thanks again for reporting.
23:29 jhuni joined #perl6
23:29 masak jhuni! \o/
23:31 jhuni masak: hi
23:31 * jhuni is learning FASM
23:32 lidden left #perl6
23:32 thundergnat masak: no problem, it was pretty easy to see what the links SHOULD have been, they were just render wierd.
23:33 masak nodnod
23:33 thundergnat weird weird weird ... I ALWAYS spell that wrong...
23:33 masak there's a programming language called wierd :)
23:34 lidden joined #perl6
23:34 masak http://catseye.tc/projects/wierd/doc/wierdspec.txt
23:38 wallberg left #perl6
23:40 thundergnat masak: wow. just... wow. That looks to be up there with brain**** for "languages I DON'T want to use."
23:40 masak that's part of what makes them esoteric, I guess.
23:41 masak actually, you could very well consider wierd a brainfuck clone.
23:42 thundergnat "People for the Ethical Treatment of Data Structures", snork.
23:45 thundergnat On another note: on the perl6.org compiler page - http://perl6.org/compilers/ -, the last three links in the supplementals section are giving me 403 and 404s when I try to visit them.
23:46 thundergnat Have they been moved to another location? that anyone knows of?
23:46 diakopter yes, sec
23:46 thundergnat I'll even volunteer to fix them if I know the new locations.
23:46 masak thundergnat++ # noticing broken links
23:47 masak seems diakopter++ is on it.
23:47 diakopter for the elf ones, I don't know exactly where those are (setting & lisp) but the elf & elfish links on the left column are valid/updated.
23:48 sorear mildew/smop needs an overhaul before it's usable again
23:49 sorear recent versions of gcc are a lot more memory hungry and want >4GB to compile the million-line intermediate files mildew spits out
23:49 thundergnat Also, it may just be me, but it took me about 30 minutes to figure out that the link for http://proto.perl6.org  was the link to http://modules.perl6.org.
23:49 wamba left #perl6
23:50 masak sorear: why not just use an older version of gcc?
23:50 thundergnat It may be worth having a dedicated link to "Here's some perl6 modules contributed by the community!"
23:51 masak thundergnat: that's modules.perl6.org -- or am I misunderstanding what you just asked for?
23:51 diakopter suggesting a link
23:51 thundergnat Yes. But ther is NO link anywhere on perl6.org for modules.perl6.org
23:52 thundergnat proto.perl6.org gets rewritten to modules,perl6.org.
23:52 cdarroch left #perl6
23:52 masak that link should probably be modules.perl6.org
23:53 masak proto.perl6.org was an old, misguided name.
23:53 thundergnat silly me I was trying to find the modules page and was just hovering over the links looking for it.
23:53 tadzik I feel like bringing smoketests back to life
23:53 telmich joined #perl6
23:53 * masak , having blogged, decides to go to bed
23:54 masak 'night!
23:54 tadzik o/
23:54 masak left #perl6
23:54 thundergnat modules.perl6.org definitely exists. it just isn't obviously linked.
23:54 thundergnat night masak (belatedly)
23:58 justatheory left #perl6
23:58 thundergnat left #perl6

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