Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-11-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
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00:28 lue ohai again o/
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00:36 sorear hi lue!
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00:57 dalek niecza: 02d5341 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
00:57 dalek niecza: Eliminate multi-rx-lists
00:57 dalek niecza:
00:57 dalek niecza: We just keep all methods in order now and look by method name.  This
00:57 dalek niecza: means that multi regexes are less redundant with ordinary methods.
00:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/02d53418e4404c92a6c795948f7d863bdb3736d9
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01:13 dalek 6model: b2c2823 | diakopter++ | / (3 files):
01:13 dalek 6model: [dotnet] implement quoted-string (indirectly named) method calls; add 26-methodops.t
01:13 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/b2c28234b5aed4a2dd6f2b8a6307b3a5d75a2046
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03:34 sidek perl
03:36 jasonmay yes!
03:36 simon jasonmay, if it were a boolean statement, I'd say yes, too!
03:37 colomon 6!
03:38 simon colomon, I liked that response, too! then, maybe "> " would be a good one, too, since of the interactive interpreter :)
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03:53 sjohnson hi
03:54 sorear Hi
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03:57 colomon \o
03:58 plobsing o/
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04:15 sjohnson -_-
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06:12 dalek niecza: 9a2974a | sorear++ | / (3 files):
06:12 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix runaway string detection, start operators
06:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9a2974aba13ba6065569705f3e72d15bad12cdbc
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06:49 sorear std: sub prefix:<@>() {}; @ 5
06:49 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
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06:53 dalek niecza: f9f8ef3 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
06:53 dalek niecza: [v6] Make basic categoricals work
06:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f9f8ef35f25079e3c13255e00c247e00d58f8ebd
07:04 diakopter std: sub prefix:<@>() {}; @5
07:04 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
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07:05 diakopter std: sub prefix:<@> {}; @5
07:05 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
07:09 moritz_ std: @5
07:09 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
07:12 sorear @5 is @( $/[5] )
07:12 sorear I'm debugging categoricals, though
07:12 sorear and there's a shortage of good unused ASCII punctuation
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07:22 moritz_ \o/ http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2010/11/the-book-is-out.html
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08:40 sorear perl6: say substr("Hello",3,10)
08:40 p6eval pugs, rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«lo␤»
08:40 sorear niecza: say substr("Hello",3,10)
08:40 p6eval niecza f9f8ef3: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: startIndex + length > this.length␤Parameter name: length␤  at System.String.Substring (Int32 startIndex, Int32 length) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at SAFE.G645substrC (Niecza.Frame th) [0x00000] in <filename
08:40 p6eval ..unknown>…
08:41 sorear I suspect niecza may be wrong here
08:42 * moritz_ suspects that too
08:43 sorear S32-str backs up pugs and rakudo
08:48 dalek niecza: b6a7764 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
08:48 dalek niecza: [v6] Categoricals need to be tokens, not rules
08:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b6a77645fa4cf6d90b383cd7288f27f550016e0a
08:48 dalek niecza: c119c38 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
08:48 dalek niecza: Rewrite handling of outer frames in regexes
08:48 dalek niecza:
08:48 dalek niecza: Named prefix:<> categoricals work now.
08:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c119c3899f8bd0da284ecc827a33bb77bdcc2d80
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08:53 sorear std: sub circumfix:<open close>() {}; open 1 close
08:53 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 127m␤»
08:53 sorear std: sub circumfix:<open close>() {}; open 2 + 2 close
08:53 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 129m␤»
09:01 dalek niecza: a1bb48f | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
09:01 dalek niecza: Set terminator for circumfix blocks
09:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a1bb48fd16a52e9361843feb1b178433b61c678c
09:04 sorear STD on niecza can now handle all the usual categorical cases
09:05 tadzik hello
09:05 sorear hi
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09:43 * sorear out
09:43 sorear tomorrow: JSYNC freeze/thaw.  Try to get tryfile.exe to support a setting.
09:43 moritz_ sounds nice :-)
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11:04 masak oh hai, #perl6!
11:04 moritz_ lolitsmasak!
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11:10 tadzik oh hai
11:15 masak how are you gentlemen?
11:16 * moritz_ wonders if 'gentlemen' includes him :-)
11:17 * moritz_ finally got the contract for a side job he's been working on for two weeks
11:17 masak nice.
11:18 moritz_ the amount of beaurocracy at the university is unbelievable
11:18 tadzik university?
11:19 moritz_ yes
11:19 * tadzik imagines moritz_ as the guy giving studens programming projects to comlete
11:19 tadzik "laborant"
11:19 moritz_ I had to fill out a questionaire about possible contacts to organizations that might endanger democracy
11:20 moritz_ then a separate questionaire about contacts to the Scientology organization
11:21 moritz_ + about 4 regarding social insurance, pension funds, my wife, ...
11:21 moritz_ and all that for superwising a lab.
11:21 moritz_ tadzik: actually for the university I'm a physicist
11:21 moritz_ s/w/v/
11:23 moritz_ and I have to do all the programming myself
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11:24 moritz_ (with one exception; I did supervise a tutorial in theoretical computer science 2 years ago. It was fun. )
11:38 * moritz_ feels like he killed conversation, if there was one...
11:38 tadzik was there?
11:38 masak don't think so.
11:38 tadzik you started some. It comes and it goes
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11:39 masak fwiw, I found the description about questionnaires informative.
11:39 moritz_ nom&
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12:39 gfldex http://www.schockwellenreiter.de/blog/2010/11/12/cat-content-6/
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12:46 masak I'd say that's a very patient, understanding cat. clearly it allows its human servant a false sense of mastery, as a sort of generous gesture.
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12:48 takadonet morning all
12:50 Util Morning, takadonet
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13:17 takadonet rakudo: my $limit=5; "I want this to work so badly!" ~~ /(\N**0..$limit)/ ; say $0;
13:17 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Only integers or '*' allowed as range quantifier endpoint at line 22, near "$limit)/ ;"␤»
13:17 takadonet rakudo: my $limit=5; "I want this to work so badly!" ~~ /(\N**0..*) <?{$0.chars < $limit} > / ; say $0;
13:17 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 22, near " > / ; say"␤»
13:18 takadonet rakudo: my $limit=5; "I want this to work so badly!" ~~ /(\N**0..*) <?{$0.chars < $limit}> / ; say $0;
13:18 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«I wa␤»
13:18 takadonet masak: finally got a work around
13:18 masak \o/
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13:19 takadonet so might have a chance to get all of Text-Wrap-Tabs working
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13:21 masak moritz_++ # "Don't be scared, it's just a collection of text documents :-)"
13:21 moritz_ :-)
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13:21 takadonet ?
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13:22 masak takadonet: p6l
13:23 * moritz_ thinks it would be a good idea of sombody with more experience with async IO could comment on the ideas
13:25 moritz_ it seems that Ben has some concrete, solid ideas about how it should not look like, and more importantly how it should look like
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13:26 moritz_ even if it's not what we'll end up with, it would be much better to have some like that in the spec, just as a general direction for exploration
13:27 masak aye.
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13:29 colomon takadonet++
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14:41 masak what's the purpose of role Container?
14:42 frettled masak: to contain our enthusiasm. :) (c'mon, give us those Japanese warriors)
14:43 masak はい!
14:45 masak anyway, it seems to me Container is only there because somebody thought that there has to be a parent role for List and Hash. (an odd pair. shouldn't that be Array and Hash...? or List and EnumMap...?)
14:45 masak and I don't see why there need be.
14:48 moritz_ back in the days there was no EnumMap
14:48 masak I'm not saying there isn't a good reason, mind you. I'm saying that if there is one, it's not apparent in the synopses.
14:49 masak it doesn't seem to me, for example, that Container is the role responsible for containing things. in fact, it's empty.
14:49 masak which is, I guess, Zen and all.
14:50 masak but not particularly useful.
14:50 moritz_ masak: maybe FETCH and STORE really want to live there; but maybe that's a different Container notion
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14:50 [Coke] moritz_: ping.
14:50 moritz_ [Coke]: pong.
14:50 [Coke] so, is rakudo just ignored parrot's revision # for now?
14:50 [Coke] *ing
14:51 masak moritz_: maybe. if so, that could be a motivation. but scalars have FETCH and STORE too, don't they. are scalars Containers as well?
14:51 moritz_ [Coke]: no, it barfs until we have a working solution
14:51 moritz_ [Coke]: dukeleto is working on the parrot side, and I on the Rakudo side
14:51 [Coke] ... so development is stuck at last svn revision?
14:51 moritz_ for now, yes
14:52 moritz_ unless you comment out a line from Configure.pl
14:52 [Coke] Ok. I'll go back to lurking until this is working again, then. Thanks.
14:53 moritz_ [Coke]: if you happen to know how to add key-value pairs to parrot_config, that knowledge would be greatly appreciated :-)
15:00 masak actually, I'm not at all sure that the C<Container> type mentioned under S10/Autoloading is the same C<Container> type that S32/Containers declares.
15:02 frettled Fun.
15:06 [Coke] moritz_: in a config step, $conf->data->set('key',$val);
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15:07 moritz_ dukeleto: see above
15:07 moritz_ [Coke]++
15:09 dukeleto moritz_: hmmm, i did something very close to that
15:11 moritz_ ah, I see it now
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15:11 moritz_ $conf->data->set( describe => $describe );
15:11 dukeleto I am almost done.
15:11 dukeleto gonna push in a few
15:11 dukeleto auto::git_describe -  Determine Parrot's git-describe string...RELEASE_2_9_1-229-g2e10036.
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15:12 moritz_ \o/
15:12 dukeleto moritz_: the commits i just pushed may be what you need
15:13 dukeleto moritz_: i am testing it manually now
15:13 moritz_ looks like it
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15:15 dukeleto $ ./parrot_config --dump|grep 'git_describe =>'
15:15 dukeleto git_describe => 'RELEASE_2_9_1-229-g2e10036'
15:15 moritz_ \o/ seems to work
15:15 dukeleto moritz_: have fun. I need to do conferency things :)
15:15 dukeleto moritz_: i will unsharpen some of the edges in the next few days. Have fun and wear gloves!
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15:20 thundergnat Hi #perl6
15:20 thundergnat I've got something that seems like it should be simple but I can't figure out.
15:21 colomon o/
15:21 masak greetings, thundergnat.
15:21 thundergnat I'm trying write a sub routine that needs to access its variables twice.
15:22 masak rakudo: sub foo($x) { say $x; say $x }; foo(42)
15:22 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
15:22 thundergnat I cna do it by witing out my long complicated expressions twice but it is offending my sense of DRI.
15:23 thundergnat this works: sub c ($a,$b) {[leg] $a.lc~'long expression'~0.chr~$a, $b.lc~'long expression'~0.chr~$b}; say c('abc', 'AbC');
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15:23 thundergnat bu tI would like something like: sub c ($a,$b) {[leg] ($a,$b)>>.lc>>~>>'long expression'>>~>>0.chr>>~>>*}; say c('abc', 'AbC');
15:23 masak thundergnat: $stuff-using-$_ given 'long expression'
15:23 moritz_ thundergnat: seems like you want a local sub that replaces 'long expression'
15:23 moritz_ or map
15:23 masak or a local variable.
15:24 moritz_ ($a, $b).map({ .long-expression })
15:24 colomon I'm confused as to why you are using [leg] here?
15:24 thundergnat colomon: it is a comparison routine
15:24 masak hm, can you really reduce leg?
15:24 colomon no
15:24 moritz_ why not?
15:24 masak that doesn't make much sense.
15:25 thundergnat masak yep
15:25 moritz_ rakudo: say [leg] 'a', 'b'
15:25 colomon I mean, you can, but it will be bad
15:25 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
15:25 masak how does leg associate?
15:25 moritz_ not at all
15:25 colomon yes, but that has no advantage I can see over 'a' leg 'b'
15:25 thundergnat The [leg] is a red herring. that works
15:25 masak colomon: indeed.
15:26 moritz_ thundergnat: so. map() or a local sub
15:26 masak so [leg] over more than two elements would be an error.
15:26 dalek rakudo: 3996180 | moritz++ | src/builtins/Str.pir:
15:26 dalek rakudo: make qx and qqx return proper Perl strings
15:26 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/39961809f30a7b243eab05282d390fe457a34554
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15:26 moritz_ my sub foo($x) { $x.long.expression };  foo($a) leg foo($b)
15:26 colomon masak: I don't think it's an error, it's just a crazy idea
15:26 colomon I mean,
15:27 colomon rakudo: say [leg] 'a', 'b', 'c'
15:27 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
15:27 thundergnat I'm trying to rewrite this in a DRI way (actual code)
15:27 thundergnat [leg] $a.lc.subst(/(\d+)/,->$/{0~$0.chars.chr~$0},:g)~"\x0"~$a, $b.lc.subst(/(\d+)/,->$/{0~$0.chars.chr~$0},:g)~"\x0"~$b
15:27 thundergnat that WORKS, it''s just offensive
15:27 colomon is something like 'a' leg 'b' leg 'c' is -1 leg 'c'
15:27 colomon (might be the other way around, 'a' leg -1)
15:28 masak it shouldn't be either.
15:28 masak it should protest.
15:28 thundergnat I thought maybe this would work:
15:28 thundergnat [leg] $a,$b)>>.lc>>.subst(/(\d+)/,->$/{0~$0.chars.chr~$0},:g)>>~>>"\x0">>~>>*
15:28 thundergnat but no
15:28 thundergnat err: [leg] ($a,$b)>>.lc>>.subst(/(\d+)/,->$/{0~$0.chars.chr~$0},:g)>>~>>"\x0">>~>>*
15:28 masak infix:<leg> is listed in S03 as being non-associative.
15:28 masak it's an interesting question whether you should still be allowed to [leg] two things.
15:29 masak probably should.
15:29 colomon masak: probably should not, if being non-associative means you cannot reduce.
15:29 masak I always thought it does.
15:29 thundergnat masak Isn't it just a string specific cmp?
15:29 masak thundergnat: yes, but the problem is there for cmp as well.
15:29 colomon or <=>
15:29 masak thundergnat: it doesn't associate.
15:30 masak hence reducing it doesn't make sense.
15:30 masak this is a rakudobug, but I'm on the move and can't submit it right now.
15:30 colomon thundergnat: moritz_'s solution is almost certainly the best
15:30 masak someone else is welcome to.
15:31 colomon masak++ # spec clearly indicates [leg] should be illegal
15:31 colomon rakudo: say [leg] 'a', 'b', 'c'
15:31 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
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15:31 thundergnat huh. It accidentally works.
15:31 * moritz_ thinks [leg] with two arguments is fine
15:31 thundergnat I sorta assumed it should
15:32 colomon "Any infix operator (except for non-associating operators) can be surrounded by square brackets...."
15:32 moritz_ because &[foo] is really a short-hand for ...
15:32 moritz_ oh
15:32 moritz_ colomon wins by citing the spec :-)
15:32 colomon masak wins by making me look there
15:32 moritz_ colomon wins, masak meta-wins :-)
15:33 masak \o/
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15:33 masak Rakudo just fails to throw an error there.
15:33 thundergnat Hmmm. Alright. I'm just wrong i guess.
15:34 masak thundergnat: yes, but in a way that merits investigation. try to realize why [leg] is an insane notion.
15:34 thundergnat Well that completely makes my question irrelevent
15:34 moritz_ thundergnat: it "works" by  comparing -1 to 'c'
15:34 masak thundergnat: thanks anyway for bringing this up.
15:34 thundergnat if I can't reduce leg or cmp, I HAVE to repeat myself.
15:34 masak it resulted in a rakudobug, which is good.
15:34 moritz_ rakudo: say [leg] <c b a>
15:34 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
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15:34 moritz_ rakudo: say [leg] <a b c>
15:35 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
15:35 thundergnat Ah well DRI suffers but life goes on.
15:35 masak thundergnat: or you could do what moritz_++ suggested.
15:35 colomon reporting now...
15:35 moritz_ rakudo: say [leg] <a b 1>
15:35 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
15:35 moritz_ rakudo: say [leg] <a b -1>
15:35 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«0␤»
15:35 masak colomon++
15:35 moritz_ it just returns the last comparison
15:35 moritz_ a before b, so it's just -1 leg -1, which returns 0
15:36 moritz_ dynamic typing ftf
15:36 masak there's a lot of machinery in Perl 6 for "generic comparison". I've yet to see it work well in practice.
15:36 dalek rakudo: 0939ad8 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
15:36 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to something that can report a git-describe-ish revision
15:36 dalek rakudo:
15:36 dalek rakudo: note that that's currently from a parrot branch (git_describe), so that parrot
15:36 dalek rakudo: branch must be merged before we merge this rakudo branch
15:36 masak my, I seem to have gotten a lot grumpier lately. :)
15:36 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0939ad808deb7edec6bcdaa3be89ecd6341689cd
15:37 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c> cmp <a b a>
15:37 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:37 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c> cmp <a b d>
15:37 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
15:37 moritz_ I think cmp is smart enough on its own
15:37 colomon RT 79116
15:38 PerlJam moritz_: would RELEASE_2_9_1  work there as well?
15:38 moritz_ PerlJam: not yet
15:38 moritz_ but it should be trivial to add
15:39 masak train &
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15:39 thundergnat Anyway, thanks for your help. Even if it amounted to "What the hell were you thinking!?"
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15:41 moritz_ well, we did have some ideas :-)
15:41 colomon moritz_: I get the feeling he stubbornly resisted your excellent suggestion.  :(
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15:42 moritz_ that's fine. I can't do more than offering them.
15:43 moritz_ maybe he really wants something like
15:43 moritz_ sub transform($x) { .... }
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15:43 moritz_ first { $_ }, @a>>.&transform Zleg @b>>.&transform
15:44 * moritz_ likes that line, and should blog about it :-)
15:44 colomon woah, that's quite a line!
15:44 PerlJam Zleg makes me think you're writing some slavic language or something
15:47 moritz_ PerlJam: I've just updated my local code for revision comparing to handle just RELEASE_1_2_3
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16:08 thundergnat colomon, moritz_: no, no! Your suggestions were quite useful!
16:08 thundergnat Didn't mean to sound disparaging.
16:09 moritz_ no problem
16:09 moritz_ thundergnat: did you see my suggestion with Zleg?
16:10 thundergnat moritz_ Actually, after being kicked in the right direction, your suggestion turned out to be exactly what I was looking for.
16:10 moritz_ \o/
16:11 thundergnat I did, but I don't really need the Z. I was only ever using two terms. Cool idea though.
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16:11 takadonet http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/11/12/1439236/The-Coming-War-Over-the-Future-of-Java?from=rss
16:11 takadonet So glad we don't have any corporate backing
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16:22 moritz_ it really depends on the kind of backing
16:23 moritz_ if it's organized through an independent foundation, I wouldn't mind a bit more financial support
16:26 thundergnat \o/  That worked out very well!  thanks guys! https://gist.github.com/674282
16:26 takadonet i agree , backing from apache foundation would be great
16:26 takadonet apache like anyway
16:27 thundergnat Refering to my Gist above: Is there any opinion on whether I should make the naturally subs our?
16:27 thundergnat I could see situations where someone might want to do caching, but I also hate to clutter up the namespace.
16:28 thundergnat Or is there a way to expose them on demand?
16:28 moritz_ you can add 'is export', but that won't work well if they live in a monkey-typed classed
16:29 * takadonet still does not understand monkey-typed classes
16:31 thundergnat moritz_: the naturally subs are not in the monkey-typed class, they are just called from there.
16:32 thundergnat What does "is export" imply? or, better perhaps, where in the spec can I read about is export?
16:33 moritz_ thundergnat: yes, but if you put them in a package (in order to make them properly exportable), you remove them from the lexical scope in which they are called now
16:33 thundergnat ah
16:33 moritz_ 'is export' implies that you can   use YourModule; and get a lexical sub installed in your scope
16:33 moritz_ of course you can always
16:33 moritz_ do
16:34 moritz_ module Sort::Naturally { our sub naturally($x) is export { ... } }
16:34 moritz_ and then refer to &Sort::Naturally::naturally in class Any
16:35 thundergnat Is there a way to only load exportable subs where specifically desired? use Sort::Naturally qw/naturally/;
16:36 thundergnat Like p5?
16:36 thundergnat or is that what is export does?
16:37 TimToady std: [leg] 1,2,3;
16:37 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't reduce with leg because structural infix operators are diffy and not chaining at /tmp/ZgV_6OuzjF line 1:␤------> [32m[leg][33m⏏[31m 1,2,3;[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
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16:49 colomon thundergnat++
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16:51 colomon TimToady++ # why do I never think of trying std: for things like this?!
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17:21 PerlJam structural infix ops are "diffy"?
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17:29 moritz_ their output type are too different from the input types to allow meaningfull chaning
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17:31 tadzik o/
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17:34 * moritz_ has a new laptop
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17:34 moritz_ it come with suse preinstalled, which seems pretty decent at first glance
17:35 tadzik nice
17:35 jnthn sounds nice
17:37 moritz_ as the next step I'll install Debian :-)
17:38 jnthn huh, not Windows? ;-)
17:40 tadzik > perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot
17:40 tadzik Argument "RELEASE_2_9_1-233-gb18101c" isn't numeric in addition (+) at Configure.pl line 25, <$REQ> line 1.
17:40 tadzik known?
17:41 [Coke] I believe dukeleto and moritz are in the middle of fixing that.
17:43 moritz_ tadzik: uhm, I meant to push that to branch gitparrot, not to master
17:43 * moritz_ should revert that last commit
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17:43 tadzik that's why I was suprised when PARROT_REVISION changed when I pulled from master :)
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17:47 * moritz_ apologizes
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17:52 moritz_ rakudo: say 1 cmp 0
17:52 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:53 takadonet ....
17:53 dalek rakudo: c548b87 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
17:53 dalek rakudo: Revert "bump PARROT_REVISION to something that can report a git-describe-ish revision"
17:53 dalek rakudo:
17:53 dalek rakudo: It was meant to go into a different branch, not yet into master. Sorry.
17:53 dalek rakudo:
17:53 dalek rakudo: This reverts commit 0939ad808deb7edec6bcdaa3be89ecd6341689cd.
17:53 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c548b87f1b06bb6cee32cca8cc675d7ec4d22e1a
17:54 moritz_ rakudo: say 'a' cmp 'b'
17:54 p6eval rakudo d85964: OUTPUT«-1␤»
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18:00 takadonet :)
18:00 moritz_ am I right in assuming that Configure.pl always runs from within the rakudo directory?
18:01 * jnthn has certainly never done otherwise...
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18:02 jnthn moritz_: Also the README explicitly says to change into the rakudo directory before running Configure.
18:02 moritz_ ok, great
18:02 moritz_ then I'll rely on that
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18:12 dalek mu: 31e831d | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
18:12 dalek mu: [dalek-conf] monitor "parrotgit" rakudo branch
18:12 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/31e831d843807a7bf0fbbf89528e77bfcc01a730
18:17 colomon Ack!  no   -  in variable names in p5!
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18:50 sorear good * #perl6
18:50 tadzik hello sorear
18:51 ash__ does nqp have a $* with its version or anything?
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18:52 sorear ping moritz_
18:52 ash__ nqp: say($VERSION);
18:52 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Symbol '$VERSION' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:109)␤»
18:53 moritz_ sorear: pong
18:53 jnthn ash__: Not afaik, though it could be a good idea. We'll likely want a $*VM or some such at some point too.
18:54 ash__ $*NQP<version> (to mimic) $*PERL<version> ?
18:54 ash__ rakudo: say $*PERL<version>
18:54 jnthn Yeah, perhaps that.
18:54 p6eval rakudo c548b8: OUTPUT«2010.10-21-gc548b87␤»
18:54 sorear moritz_: if you'd like to not have to add branches to dalek-conf.json ever again, take a look at dalek-push.txt
18:54 moritz_ sorear: I don't have admin access to the rakudo repoi
18:54 moritz_ s/i$//
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18:58 sorear oh.
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19:01 ash__ anyone using tm, i added 2 new commands to my perl bundle, so you can "Run as Perl6" and "Run as NQP"
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19:02 tadzik tm?
19:03 colomon textmate
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19:03 colomon ash__:  Where is your bundle again?  :)
19:04 ash__ https://github.com/ashgti/perl-tmbundle
19:04 colomon thanks!
19:05 ash__ git clone https://github.com/ashgti/perl-tmbundle ~/Library/Application\ Support/TextMate/Bundles/perl.tmbundle  should more or less work (assuming directories exist)
19:08 ash__ Cmd+Shift+R will run the current file as perl6
19:09 ash__ thats the more useful one, i think, unless you do a lot of nqp, thats Cmd+Ctrl+R (but you can re-map them)
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19:11 tadzik where do metaops live in Rakudo source?
19:12 jnthn src/core/metaops.pm iirc
19:13 jnthn And code that maps the parsed stuff into using those is in Actions.pm, search for meta_ or so.
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19:26 lue ohai o/
19:26 sorear hello lue
19:28 colomon sorear++ # p6l post
19:29 sorear moritz++ # posted first
19:29 lue how do I make it so this regex: /^^ '=begin' \s+ <blocktype> [\s+ <option>]* $$/ won't go past a newline in a string? [or will I need to split the string into an array?]
19:29 sorear \h+
19:29 sorear 'h'orizontal whitespace
19:31 lue thank you sorear. That worked perfectly.
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19:42 [Coke] colomon: (p6l post) really? that didn't read as helpful to me.
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20:01 sorear [Coke]: Should it have been helpful?  The OP read as a request for criticism to me.
20:03 dalek mu: 560e262 | sorear++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
20:03 dalek mu: Remove pull notification for parrot.git
20:03 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/560e2627f1368213a65cbaa9e06012b5c6ce6f2a
20:03 dukeleto [Coke]: i made a branch on partcl for getting it to work with parrot.git called 'parrotgit'
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20:09 [Coke] dukeleto: danke.
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20:10 lue There's no info on it in the spec, but I assume .parsefile($str, :rule<A>) will continually try to match the regex|token|etc. named A until it's done with the string. Am I correct?
20:11 colomon huh.
20:11 sorear No
20:11 sorear it will match 1 copy of A against the entire string
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20:13 lue so it's no different that .parse then.
20:13 moritz_ well, .parsefile opens a file and parse its contents
20:14 lue yeah, but it essentialy does the exact same thing, right? Just does the extra step of opening a file.
20:14 moritz_ corrrect
20:14 moritz_ also note that the only difference in name is the 'file' part
20:17 lue Then my problem would be that I can't get my regex to match against every line in the string (without turning it into an array of course. If that's the only way then fine.)
20:17 sorear lue: you need the * quantifier
20:17 moritz_ lue: if your file format is intrinsically line based, splitting in lines first is easiest
20:19 moritz_ \o/ perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot  works again in the parrotgit branch
20:19 colomon \o/
20:19 moritz_ please test it
20:20 lue I use +, as in <regexthing>+. Does that make a difference?
20:21 ash__ colomon: i am trying to add some unit tests to the tm bundle, since it now has a tool for testing its grammars (see http://lists.macromates.com/textmate/2010-May/030881.html if your interested), so, maybe i'll have some better support soon, i am trying to fix the old issues of doing: package Foo; sub bar { }; and having it show the symbols in the symbol table properly
20:21 tadzik Argument "RELEASE_2_9_1-233-gb18101c" isn't numeric in addition (+) at Configure.pl line 25, <$REQ> line 1.
20:21 tadzik # On branch parrotgit
20:21 moritz_ lue: depends on whether you want allow an empty file
20:21 moritz_ tadzik: did you pull again?
20:22 colomon ash__++
20:22 tadzik hmm, I pulled before switching
20:22 tadzik right, something was not there
20:23 tadzik hmm, not-so-bug, but still: http://wklej.org/id/417814/
20:24 moritz_ so, is your parrot still an svn checkout?
20:24 lue It matches the first line perfectly, but won't do anything after that.
20:25 tadzik moritz_: not anymore, but this error should've stop spitting errors earlier, no?
20:25 moritz_ lue: do you have any rule that matches the \n at the end
20:25 moritz_ tadzik: it should
20:26 moritz_ I'm confused
20:26 moritz_ if (-d 'parrot') {
20:26 moritz_ if (-d 'parrot/.svn') {
20:26 moritz_ die "===SORRY===\n"
20:27 moritz_ so, there's no parrot/.svn, but you still get the error?
20:27 lue I use $$ at end… waitaminute. (I've got a whole tree of <regex>es in regexes going on.)
20:27 tadzik no, there was one, error was ok. But there were a few perl warnings, and that error message is die, no?
20:28 moritz_ lue: $$ matches line end, but not the \n
20:28 moritz_ tadzik: yes, but it's in gen_parrot.pl, which is spawned from COnfigure.pl - which in itself doesn't detect unsuccessful return
20:29 moritz_ tadzik: which is unfortuneate, but nothing new - so not a high priority for me
20:29 tadzik I see
20:32 tadzik duh, Parrot repo is Big
20:33 lue So replace $$ with \n ?
20:33 moritz_ \n? $$
20:34 moritz_ that way you also match the last line in a file that doesn't end in \n
20:34 sorear $$ \n? surely
20:34 sorear $$ won't match after \n
20:34 tadzik \n and then the end of the line
20:35 moritz_ rakudo: say ?( "a\n" ~~ /\n $$/ )
20:35 p6eval rakudo c548b8: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
20:35 moritz_ rakudo: say ?( "a\n" ~~ / $$ \n/ )
20:35 p6eval rakudo c548b8: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
20:35 moritz_ ok,, you're right
20:35 tadzik moritz_: branch seems to work for me, Parrot is building itself
20:35 moritz_ \o//
20:36 tadzik wow, where did you grow that third arm?
20:36 jnthn moritz_: I can try it on Win32 later on today, but don't let that hold up merging it if you're otherwise ready.
20:36 moritz_ jnthn: well, it actually requires a merged parrot branch too
20:36 jnthn ah, ok
20:37 jnthn moritz_++ # working on fixing this up
20:40 lue grr. I match to    regex TOP { <directive>+ }    anything wrong in trying to get that to match more than one line? [where <directive> is regex directive { <A>|<B>|<C>|<D> }, and each of those begin with ^^ and end with $$ \n]
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20:42 moritz_ nothing wrong with that
20:42 moritz_ though it might be easier to match ^^ and $$\n in <directive>
20:43 lue and remove ^^ and $$\n from the others. [trying...]
20:44 tadzik moritz_: everything works like a charm
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20:48 tadzik One day I'll consider Rakudo fast, when I could watch ForestFire.pl more often than one frame every 15 seconds :)
20:48 moritz_ tadzik: I fixed the bug with further errors from Configure.pl
20:48 tadzik moritz_++
20:48 lue hm, could greediness be the issue in my regex TOP?
20:49 moritz_ what makes you think so?
20:49 moritz_ lue: http://perlgeek.de/en/article/debug-a-perl-6-grammar
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20:51 moritz_ $ ./perl6 --version
20:51 moritz_ This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2010.10-20-g08fb200 built on parrot 2.9.1 rRELEASE_2_9_1-233-gb18101c
20:52 moritz_ uhm, the r is still wrong
20:52 tadzik (:
20:53 moritz_ tadzik: fixed.
20:54 moritz_ sorear: dalek doesn't seem to report commits from the parrotgit branch
20:54 mindos1 Hi, I just build Rakudo on OSX server 10.6.4, and it failed on some test. Where can I report to?
20:54 moritz_ how long should it take to pick up new branches
20:54 sorear 5 minutes
20:54 moritz_ mindos1: mailto:rakudobug@perl.org
20:54 moritz_ though a failure in pid.t is known
20:55 sorear the first push to any branch will always be missed
20:55 mindos1 Oh, I got that one. I also got t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.rakudo failed.
20:55 moritz_ mindos1: does that fail deterministally if you run it multiple times?
20:56 moritz_ ./perl6 t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.rakudo
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20:56 sorear fetch_url: failure fetching https://github.com/api/v2/yaml/commits/list/rakudo/rakudo/parrogit: 404 Not Found
20:56 moritz_ dammit, typo
20:56 * moritz_ stupid
20:57 dalek mu: cfe4b79 | moritz++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
20:57 dalek mu: fix typo, moritz--
20:57 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/cfe4b799821170e3f1d10a22444ac6a6a3f3a003
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21:04 mindos1 moritz_: failed 3/3 times, only succeed on Test 1 is-a test.
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21:06 lue do | (disjunctions) only work right inside some set of brackets? [or would its probability of working increase in brackets?]
21:10 flussence they should work anywhere, but there's always op precedence stuff to remember. When in doubt, write lisp.
21:11 sorear | and || are synonymous in Rakudo
21:11 tadzik . o O (will have to remember that)
21:12 Tene lue: probability of working?
21:12 Tene sorear: you only mean in Rakudo's grammars, right?
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21:32 sorear Tene: yes
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21:42 lue grr. I'm thinking of scrapping and starting over this grammar of mine. Maybe then it'll be easier to catch mistakes.
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21:45 tadzik neutro can now install local modules, not only those git-fetched
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21:50 moritz_ (dpkg --{g,s}set-selections)++
21:53 mindos1 moritz_ : I sent the bug report. It seems that the qqx{ } refused to work on my build.
21:54 moritz_ mindos1+
21:54 moritz_ mindos1++
21:54 * moritz_ -> sleep
21:55 mindos1 A newbe here...
21:55 mindos1 Night.
21:55 tadzik mindos1: everyone says so at the beginning :)
21:55 mindos1 :P
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21:57 mindos1 I am really excited about the changes in Perl 6.  It seems you guys just wanna make it better -- with thought.
21:59 tadzik we just wanna make it. There will be time for making it better then :)
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22:04 tadzik self!sleep; # g'night
22:05 Juerd mindos1: It has been changing for the past decade so your excitement is probably infinite by now :)
22:05 mindos1 tadzik: Good night.
22:10 mindos1 Juerd : Actually, I started to touch Perl6 just few days ago.  But I know many people have worked on it for quite a long time.
22:11 TimToady hopefully it's turning into a real version of Perl in the sense that it rewards you at every level of participation
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22:30 sjohnson yo
22:31 mindos1 Yo~
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22:39 sjohnson hows it going
22:43 mindos1 Reading Perl 6 documents, wondering where should I start.
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22:46 sorear Start... what?
22:46 sorear Using?  Contributing?  In what way?
22:49 ash___ anyone getting an error like: /bin/sh: line 0: cd: src/pmc: No such file or directory when building rakudo?
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22:50 sjohnson start learning perhaps
22:51 mindos1 sorear : start to contribute something or find some program to write.
22:52 ash___ oh
22:52 ash___ hmm
22:52 ash___ figured it out
22:52 ash___ CDPATH causes a problem if you have it set
22:52 ash___ odd
22:53 ash___ an easy fix would be to set CDPATH to '' for the duration of the build process, or use ./ in front of paths that need them (hence why src/pmc failed, if it was ./src/pmc it would of been fine)
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22:55 ash___ or say: CDPATH='' make   same effect
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23:03 masak oh hai! \o/
23:03 * masak is at jnthn's place
23:04 masak and I blogged! http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/november-12-2010-plan-of-attack
23:04 jnthn lolmasakblogged
23:07 sorear hello masak
23:07 masak ahoy sorear
23:08 masak sorear: how's niecza going? working on freeze/thaw and setting support?
23:09 sorear yeah
23:09 TimToady "guns against gnus"?
23:09 sorear lots of questions for ingy
23:09 sorear JSYNC spec is slushier than it looks
23:09 jnthn But not against unix...
23:09 masak TimToady: I had a brain slip. it's being fixed as we speak.
23:10 TimToady masak: did you mean emus, or is there some joke I'm not getting
23:10 sorear jsync is supposed to be semantically isomorphic with yaml, but I don't see how - foo versus - "foo" is handled, for instance
23:10 masak TimToady: I think my brain might be conflating emus and gnus in places.
23:10 TimToady well, I guess they're both warm blooded...
23:11 TimToady unlike the hot-blooded aussies
23:11 jaldhar joined #perl6
23:12 TimToady s/attach/attack/
23:14 lue hai masak o/
23:14 masak TimToady: also fixed. you can refresh now :)
23:14 masak lue: hey there.
23:15 ilogger2 left #perl6
23:15 TimToady I can, but planetsix can't...
23:15 jnthn I'm sure he could refresh before. :P
23:16 masak TimToady: planetsix usually is quite quick at refreshing.
23:16 TimToady I'm quicker, it would seem...
23:16 masak :)
23:17 masak hm, I'm still not sure how to make the HTML in RSS readers look as nicely styled as it does on my site.
23:17 ilogger2 joined #perl6
23:17 masak seems the only way to get it right is to inline some of the CSS, and that'd mean quite a bit of manual, repetitive CSS styling. not sure what to do about that.
23:18 ch3ck left #perl6
23:18 ch3ck joined #perl6
23:18 * TimToady wonders if he should upgrade to 64-bit Ubuntu this weekend, since his laptop will support it...
23:18 * sorear is studying PyYAML
23:18 TimToady and moar is obviously bettor
23:19 * masak watched a ST-TNG episode the other day where Cmdr. Data informed someone that binary language is made up of 0s and 1s in "groups of eight or sixteen"
23:20 TimToady of course, he's referring to Latin-1 vs UCS-2
23:20 masak heh.
23:21 TimToady you guys having a mini-hackathon?
23:21 lue .oO("Oh no, Commander! This binary data is in groups of 8 *and* 16!")
23:21 * diakopter is
23:21 jnthn TimToady: Well, so far we mostly just discussed what we're going to eat... :)
23:22 * lue continues staring at his grammar in silent anger.
23:22 patrickas joined #perl6
23:23 TimToady lue: you're approaching this all wrong; instead of staring you must bang your head against it until it dissolves from all the blood on it.
23:23 TimToady jnthn: sorry...
23:23 masak TimToady: I popped over to jnthn over the weekend for some nomz, hacking, and puns.
23:24 sorear ping pmichaud_
23:24 TimToady somehow I don't think it'll be a mini-nomathon
23:24 sjohnson TimToady: when was the last time you played Perl golf?
23:25 diakopter did he ever stop?
23:25 TimToady does reducing the size of risottocode entries count?
23:25 masak sorear: fwiw, pmichaud_ wrote what I was thinking in reply to your p6l email. sorear++
23:25 diakopter mmmm risotto
23:25 lue or the LCD juice from mu once=functoning scredn,
23:27 xinming left #perl6
23:27 diakopter TimToady: if I recall, you increased the size of my risottocode entry greatly :P .. but mine wasn't exactly idiomatic Perl 6. or even hardly.
23:27 masak lue: you working on Pod?
23:27 TimToady sjohnson: see, for instance, the second entry of http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Constrained_random_points_on_a_circle#Perl_6
23:28 TimToady diakopter: which one was that?
23:28 lue yes, and I think I'm going to murde— replace the grammar I conceived, so I can hopefully catch errors faster (I wrote the small bit that currently exists all at once :/)
23:28 diakopter TimToady: the turtle one
23:29 TimToady ah, I took a different approach
23:29 masak lue: I've probably suggested it before, but once too many probably doesn't hurt: make sure to check the prior art that's out there.
23:29 lue I did before [should look again]
23:30 masak specifically L18-25 in https://gist.github.com/500732 has references to the three implementations I know of.
23:30 dalek 6model: a8aa9f7 | jnthn++ | dotnet/ (2 files):
23:30 dalek 6model: [dotnet] A little tweak to diakopter++'s patch for indirect method calls to avoid needing the operator in RakudoObject (I think we may need that some day, but will need it to do a coercion rather than just an unbox, and need it for .Net language interop).
23:30 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/a8aa9f7b19225d399df333c8bcecad895071b5fe
23:30 dalek 6model: 2c99e45 | jnthn++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/Comparison.cs:
23:30 dalek 6model: [odd] More git oddness - line ending issue?
23:30 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/2c99e45b603d35de276ad4fb05edac6b68933681
23:30 dalek 6model: 805378f | jnthn++ | dotnet/compiler/ROADMAP.txt:
23:30 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Remove indirect method calls from ROADMAP (diakopter++).
23:30 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/805378f724c4b9451fdb89a5cd8851d91c8c2f3c
23:30 sorear jnthn: ping
23:30 jnthn sorear: pong
23:31 sorear jnthn: how would you like near-instant reporting against all branches in 6model?
23:31 jnthn sorear: I don't find it excessively tardy at the moment. ;-)
23:31 ilogger2 left #perl6
23:31 sorear Oh well
23:32 jnthn sorear: Oh, maybe the branch thingy could be worth it though. :)
23:32 jnthn sorear: What's the procedure? Set up some notification thingummy?
23:32 sorear yeah
23:32 sorear misc/dalek-push.txt has the directions
23:34 ilogger2 joined #perl6
23:37 tadzik oh, pls is evolving
23:40 lue LTM is NYI, correct?
23:41 dalek 6model: a8aa9f7 | jonathan++ | dotnet/ (2 files):
23:41 dalek 6model: [dotnet] A little tweak to diakopter++'s patch for indirect method calls to avoid needing the operator in RakudoObject (I think we may need that some day, but will need it to do a coercion rather than just an unbox, and need it for .Net language interop).
23:41 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/a8aa9f7b19225d399df333c8bcecad895071b5fe
23:41 dalek 6model: 2c99e45 | jonathan++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/Comparison.cs:
23:41 dalek 6model: [odd] More git oddness - line ending issue?
23:41 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/2c99e45b603d35de276ad4fb05edac6b68933681
23:41 dalek 6model: 805378f | jonathan++ | dotnet/compiler/ROADMAP.txt:
23:41 dalek 6model: [dotnet] Remove indirect method calls from ROADMAP (diakopter++).
23:41 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/805378f724c4b9451fdb89a5cd8851d91c8c2f3c
23:42 jnthn sorear: Done \o/
23:42 diakopter heh
23:42 jnthn sorear: Remove from dalek-conf.json if needed - is it needed for me?
23:43 mavrc left #perl6
23:43 ilogger2 left #perl6
23:43 diakopter yah
23:43 jnthn kk
23:44 diakopter re [odd] More git oddness
23:44 diakopter even odder
23:44 jnthn I'm confused about that. :S
23:44 jnthn git just has it as a diff as soon as I pull any of your changes :/
23:44 jnthn With just some line ending differences.
23:44 diakopter TortoiseGit ?
23:45 ilogger2 joined #perl6
23:45 jnthn I just use command line one
23:45 diakopter in cygwin?
23:45 jnthn Not had the issue in any other repos.
23:45 jnthn No
23:45 tadzik TimToady: about this risottocode, pick(:replace) did turn to .roll, didn't it?
23:45 sorear jnthn: If you're migrating an existing project it's needed
23:45 jnthn Just plain old Win32 msys bulid, used from Windows command line.
23:45 jnthn sorear: OK
23:45 jnthn sorear: Removing my entry
23:45 sorear jnthn: the poller and the post-receive script are independant; if both of them are tracking a repo, then commits will be double-reported
23:46 sorear I should make that clearer
23:46 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:46 * tadzik fixes
23:47 TimToady tadzik: yes, but we really want normal pick without replacement semantics here anyway, despite the problem description's seeming bias toward roll semantics
23:48 dalek mu: bf9469c | jonathan++ | misc/dalek-conf.json:
23:48 dalek mu: [dalek-conf] Remove 6model; reported by push notifs now.
23:48 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/bf9469c544495ce6351d41f4bdb86cfe9f33485b
23:49 tadzik TimToady: yeah, I noticed second solution using pick
23:49 dalek mu: 4ac82c5 | sorear++ | misc/dalek-push.txt:
23:49 dalek mu: [misc] Clarify requirements for step 7 a bit
23:49 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/4ac82c51349f2d5e8f91810a09fb9edfd87eb5cd
23:49 toebu_ joined #perl6
23:51 flatwhatson left #perl6
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23:52 TimToady arguably, roll will be more efficient, but could (in theory) produce only a single point, albeit with probability (1/404) ** 100, which is pretty darn unlikely
23:52 * justatheory produces a couple of points
23:53 TimToady looks like about 18 points to me
23:53 TimToady vertically, anyway
23:54 patrickas left #perl6
23:57 masak mindos1: welcome! hope you'll feel right at home here on #perl6.
23:57 mindos1 :)
23:58 masak mindos1: wondering where to start? pick a random feature in the synopses, and try it out on the channel. something will happen.
23:58 masak example: let's try out multi subs.
23:58 masak rakudo: sub foo(Int $x) { say "Int" }; sub foo(Str $x) { say "Str" }; foo(42)
23:58 diakopter multi subs with explicit return types
23:58 p6eval rakudo c548b8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not re-declare sub &foo without declaring it multi at line 22, near "; foo(42)"␤»
23:58 masak rakudo: multi sub foo(Int $x) { say "Int" }; multi sub foo(Str $x) { say "Str" }; foo(42); foo("OH HAI")
23:58 p6eval rakudo c548b8: OUTPUT«Int␤Str␤»
23:59 masak \o/
23:59 TimToady hugme: hug masak
23:59 * hugme hugs masak and blushes
23:59 * masak hugs hugme and blushes
23:59 araujo left #perl6
23:59 kjeldahl left #perl6

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