IRC log for #perl6, 2010-11-23

Time	Nick	Message
00:01		Chillance left #perl6
00:10	masak	ah, here's a workaround:
00:10	masak	rakudo: sub foo($a, %h = {}) { bar($a, %h) }; sub bar($a, %h?) { say "alive!" }; foo(42)
00:10	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«alive!␤»
00:10	masak	of course.
00:10	* masak	adds that to the ticket
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00:39	masak	blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org[…]-2010-bring-em-on
00:40	colomon	"not it's just" should maybe be "now it's just"?
00:41	masak	thanks. fixing. colomon++
00:42	colomon	masak++ # nice post, and actually, you know, keeping the Perl 6 flame alive. ;)
00:42	masak	thanks.
00:42	masak	every time I come back to this kind of hands-dirty work, it's great fun.
00:42	colomon	I know. Wish we all had more time to get our hands-dirty.
00:43	colomon	errr, hands dirty.
00:43	colomon	afk
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00:47	masak	decommute &
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00:52	sjohnson	suicide &
00:52	sjohnson	:)
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01:09	masak	sjohnson: please don't joke about such things :-/
01:10	sjohnson	sorry, just getting really darn cold up here in Canada!
01:10	* sjohnson	bundles up
01:20	flussence	according to other people around me, it's cold here too. I haven't noticed at all :/
01:35	sjohnson	rakudo: say round(5.4)
01:35	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«5␤»
01:35	sjohnson	no round in p5?
01:35	sjohnson	rakudo: say round(5.5)
01:35	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«6␤»
01:35	masak	buubot: eval int(5.4 + .5)
01:35	buubot	masak: 5
01:35	masak	sjohnson: that's probably what you'd do in Perl 5. or load a module.
01:35	sjohnson	or sprintf
01:36	masak	indeed.
01:36	sjohnson	i'll do % with the f
01:36	sjohnson	:-)
01:37	sjohnson	wrote a script to calculate how much money i owe my brother. perl is very useful!
01:40	sjohnson	needless to say, i paid him off in many installments, and calculating it everytime got tedious
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01:44	colomon	for some bizarre reason, it was 63F here today.
01:45	colomon	Tomorrow it's supposed to be back to a more seasonal 42F
01:45	colomon	jnthn: ping?
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01:45	masak	colomon: jnthn is asleep. :)
01:46	colomon	blast
01:46	* diakopter	agrees
01:46	masak	rakudo: sub f2c($f) { ($f - 32) * 5/9 }; say f2c 63
01:46	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«17.2222222222222␤»
01:46	masak	rakudo: sub f2c($f) { ($f - 32) * 5/9 }; say f2c 42
01:46	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«5.55555555555556␤»
01:46	masak	ah.
01:47	colomon	yes, from "no jacket needed" weather straight to a bit above freezing.
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01:59	bitter16	exit
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02:37	colomon	Null PMC access in push_string().... hmmm
02:37	masak	golfed example?
02:38	colomon	it's in nqp-rx
02:38	masak	oh.
02:38	colomon	and it's happening somewhere in the middle of the stage 2 compile
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02:39	masak	oh!
02:40	colomon	though if you have a clue what might cause that, I'm all eyes
02:40	colomon	errr, ears
02:40	masak	no clue, sorry.
02:40	masak	I have no uncanny intuition about nqp-rx failures :)
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03:05	Tene	great weather in sfbay :)
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03:42	diakopter	nqp: say("h"~~/h/)
03:42	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«h␤»
03:42	diakopter	nqp: say("ih"~~/h/)
03:42	p6eval	nqp: OUTPUT«h␤»
03:44	diakopter	nqpnet: my $a; say($a.defined)
03:44	p6eval	nqpnet: OUTPUT«RakudoOutput.cs(136,35): warning CS0414: The private field `NQPOutput_1290483890.ConstantsTable' is assigned but its value is never used␤Compilation succeeded - 1 warning(s)␤0␤»
03:45	diakopter	meh
03:45	diakopter	nqpnet: my $a; say($a.defined)
03:45	p6eval	nqpnet: OUTPUT«RakudoOutput.cs(136,35): warning CS0414: The private field `NQPOutput_1290483906.ConstantsTable' is assigned but its value is never used␤Compilation succeeded - 1 warning(s)␤0␤»
03:45	diakopter	blergh
03:46	masak	still fails :)
03:46	diakopter	well, it did have some output
03:47	diakopter	(I just noticed)
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04:16	diakopter	masak: it must be ... 5am
04:16	diakopter	?
04:17	TimToady	it's his last fling before he marries five amazons
04:17	masak	:)
04:17	masak	diakopter: aye. bit disconnected to the local sun time right now.
04:17	masak	s/to/from/
04:18	* diakopter	very confused by what TimToady said
04:19	diakopter	I mean, I see "5am" -> "five am[azons]"
04:19	TimToady	you are clueless?
04:19	masak	diakopter: ooh. didn't spot that one.
04:19	masak	TimToady: you're a tease :)
04:20	diakopter	but I don't get the fling/marriage part
04:20	masak	diakopter: where were you when I handed out clues?
04:21	diakopter	in the conservatory with the rope
04:21	masak	diakopter: hold on, I'll link ya.
04:21	diakopter	oh wait
04:21	diakopter	those clues
04:22	diakopter	I've seen the first 2
04:22	masak	there you go then.
04:22	masak	I don't think there was more to what TimToady said than that.
04:22	diakopter	ah
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04:23	diakopter	so perhaps my pun interpretation was a backropun
04:24	masak	regardless, it was a very pretty one.
04:24	masak	but I suspect TimToady had the association forwards before you had it backwards. :P
04:24	diakopter	we'll never know
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04:24	masak	guess not.
04:24	TimToady	I had the 5, but I didn't have the am, so you're half backropunished
04:25	masak	a halfback!
04:25	diakopter	how punifive
04:25	masak	...and we're done, I think.
04:25	masak	thanks, everyone.
04:25	TimToady	o/
04:26	* masak	goes to work
04:26	* diakopter	bows -o-
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05:15	andmott	hello
05:15	scp1	hi
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05:26	sorear	hi
05:26	sorear	good * #perl6
05:27	sorear	TimToady: what besides $*FILE<name> is there?
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05:34	lue	ohayo o/
05:34	sorear	Hi.
05:35	dalek	niecza: 6ff137e \| sorear++ \| / (4 files):
05:35	dalek	niecza: Implement LTM for :i STRING
05:35	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/6ff137ebf8
05:46	sorear	yay, /\S/ is working now
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05:57	TimToady	sorear: nothing that I know of, yet, but one could imagine other sources of, er, source code
05:58	TimToady	at the time, I was mostly interested in not storing a gazillion copies of the file name
05:59	scp1	masak, how do you deal with, say, 'make test' spitting out a mile of errors - do you close STDERR and redirect to a log, or just let it be?
05:59	masak	scp1: what's the context here? Rakudo?
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06:05	sorear	TimToady: oh! you used a reference type to prevent copying?
06:05	scp1	masak, oh sorry - the tote project :)
06:06	masak	ah! I suppose I just make sure my scrollback is long enough.
06:06	scp1	ah, okay
06:08	ingy	I just built rakudo star on ubuntu and get this error: ./perl6: error while loading shared libraries: libparrot.so.2.9.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
06:09	ingy	am i dumb?
06:09	masak	hm. rakudo star and libparrot.so.2.9.1? odd combination.
06:09	ingy	or dumber?
06:10	masak	I'm not aware that Rakudo Star has been released this month. and that Parrot version number is the latest one.
06:10	ingy	I just grabbed the latest star download tarball from github and followed the structions
06:10	ingy	hmm
06:10	* masak	tries that
06:10	ingy	thanks
06:11	dalek	6model: 2bceca4 \| diakopter++ \| / (4 files):
06:11	dalek	6model: [dotnet] make regex Actions generate method not sub
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/2bceca45a5
06:11	dalek	6model: b68ad46 \| diakopter++ \| dotnet/ (2 files):
06:11	dalek	6model: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:jnthn/6model
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/b68ad46d11
06:11	dalek	6model: c319dc1 \| diakopter++ \| dotnet/compiler/DNST (2 files):
06:11	dalek	6model: [DotNetSyntaxTree] Added DNST::Return and DNST::Local, enabling same-routine local variables and returning from anywhere.
06:11	dalek	6model: Implemented their emitters in DotNetSyntaxTree2CSharp
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c319dc1141
06:11	dalek	6model: d3c1b8f \| diakopter++ \| dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/P6capture.cs:
06:11	dalek	6model: [dotnet] made the native P6capture representation auto-vivify its storage
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/d3c1b8f9ec
06:11	dalek	6model: c6aa078 \| diakopter++ \| dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/Metamodel.cs:
06:11	dalek	6model: [dotnet] fixed my logic bug; oops.
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c6aa078e05
06:11	dalek	6model: 91a2613 \| diakopter++ \| / (3 files):
06:11	dalek	6model: [PAST::Regex] added more regex compiler scaffolding - lots of things faked, but it "works"
06:11	dalek	6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/91a2613762
06:11	masak	ingy: oh wait, seems I'm wrong. that's the Parrot version for the latest Star release.
06:12	ingy	masak: rakudo-star-2010.10
06:12	masak	yes. that one.
06:12	ingy	any ideas?
06:13	masak	nope.
06:13	* sorear	fixes 90 errors and sees how many more files pass
06:13	masak	ingy: but I'm trying to build that tarball here.
06:14	lue	.oO(something's wonky with my code...)
06:14	ingy	I built and installed it fine
06:15	ingy	-rwxr-xr-x 1 ingy ingy 8017442 2010-11-23 11:16 install/lib/libparrot.so.2.9.1*
06:15	ingy	it's there
06:16	ingy	perl6 just can't find it I guess
06:16	ingy	is there an env var I can set?
06:19	sorear	LD_LIBRARY_PATH
06:19	sorear	.so files should in general always be installed to /lib, /usr/lib, or /usr/local/lib
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06:22	lue	aha! does this line if $/.keys[0] == "directive" { dwim? [I just realized that from the looks of the output, it always matches this line]
06:22	sorear	eq
06:22	sorear	== is only for numbers
06:23	diakopter	nqpnet: say("h"~~/h/)
06:23	p6eval	nqpnet: OUTPUT«h␤»
06:24	diakopter	hee. mostly faked-up. but largely there.
06:24	lue	ah. Thank you sorear, it works now! \o/
06:24	diakopter	the scaffolding, that is.
06:24	diakopter	almost none of the actual regex features work yet
06:26	dalek	niecza: 43b4a24 \| sorear++ \| docs/DIRECTIONS:
06:26	dalek	niecza: niecza has basic :i now
06:26	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/43b4a24645
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06:35	ingy	sorear, masak:
06:35	ingy	ingyingy-eee:~/src/rakudo-star-2010.10$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=`abs_path install/lib/` ./install/bin/perl6
06:35	ingy	Could not load oplib `perl6_ops'
06:35	scp1	masak, right; prototype: https://github.com/trapd00r/ut[…]b/master/autotest . Now I need to find out a way to watch $dir and all important files therein - t/* and lib/**.pm
06:36	masak	scp1++
06:36	ingy	it seems odd that r* would not install properly
06:36	masak	scp1: I'd do t**
06:36	masak	er, t/**
06:37	ingy	do we no longer support installing perl6 in /usr/local/bin?
06:37	scp1	Hmm, subdirs in t/ ? Havent encountered that
06:37	masak	scp1: oh, it's not that uncommon.
06:38	dalek	dalek-poller: 303ac6a \| sorear++ \| push.psgi:
06:38	dalek	dalek-poller: Drop commit packets with >15 commits, with a warning to the offender
06:38	dalek	dalek-poller: review: https://github.com/sorear/dale[…]commit/303ac6a6cc
06:38	masak	ingy: it works here, even without mucking with LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
06:39	masak	ingy: though I can't rule out that my globally installed Parrot is helping me. I did have the same error you did before doing 'make install', though.
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06:43	ingy	masak: where did you install to?
06:44	ingy	I just installed to ./install
06:44	ingy	because that's what the doc said
06:44	masak	same here.
06:45	sorear	masak: what should I put in my initial release message?
06:45	ingy	both ./perl and ./install/bin/perl work?
06:45	ingy	*perl6
06:46	masak	sorear: what it is you're building, where you aim to take it, how to get things running, how to get involved. something like that.
06:46	Tene	lue: order of .keys is not guaranteed
06:47	Tene	iirc
06:47	lue	"You turned into a cat! A SMALL cat! You violated Conservatrion of Energy![...]" curse you moritz_, I like this fanfic
06:47	masak	Tene: oh! I completely missed that. :)
06:47	lue	Tene: there's only ever one key, so that shouldn't be a problem :)
06:47	Tene	lue: Yeah, I'm quite fond of it too. I'm fond of everything Eliezer has produced, though.
06:48	masak	sorear: are you planning on making time-based releases. if so, then you should probably describe it in the release announcement too.
06:48	masak	Tene: he's written other things? o.O
06:48	Tene	lue: if it doesn't match, it won't have that key
06:48	lue	if I did have >1 key though, I'd expect some way of finding the right one when I don't know anything about the results yet.
06:49	lue	Tene: It works now, I was just using == when it should've been eq .
06:49	masak	lue: if any($/.keys) eq 'directive' { ... }
06:49	Tene	masak: a few other pieces of fiction, and a large amount of blogging in preparation for writing a book about rationality and cognitive biases.
06:49	masak	Tene: nice!
06:49	masak	this requires further investigation.
06:49	lue	masak: should I do it like that anyway, in case I need to remember it later?
06:49	Tene	masak: http://yudkowsky.net/other/fiction/
06:50	masak	lue: nah. just suggesting alternatives.
06:50	Tene	masak: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences
06:50	masak	Tene: thanks x 2
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06:59	lue	my my, a very geeky person must've written this fanfic :)
07:01	Tene	masak: Oh, he also wrote http://www.fanfiction.net/s/55[…]he_Riddle_of_Kyon under his name, instead of the LessWrong persona
07:01	masak	EGOODSTUFFOVERFLOW
07:02	lue	solution: another bukkit.
07:02	Tene	Did you just call masak a walrus?
07:04	lue	I hired the guy in that photo to steal the bukkit for this moment.
07:04	Tene	http://luminous.elcenia.com/index.shtml is another fanfic by someone in the LessWrong community, possibly inspired by HPRM, also heavily discusses thought and cognitive biases, but less geeky.
07:04	lue	[I has a TARDIS, remember?]
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07:12	lue	"Trunks whose insides hold more than their outsides?" (some-wizard has been visiting Gallifrey!)
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07:13	Tene	hehe
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07:16	lue	I bet the trunk is signficantly worse than the ∞:1 capacity of a TARDIS though... </commentary> # couldn't help it :/
07:17	Tene	lue: Yes; it clearly has a limit.
07:18	lue	could you stuff Earth into the trunk?
07:19	Tene	lue: The trunk has a very small limit; It's about the size of a small room.
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07:19	Tene	iirc
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07:20	lue	I think DW has ruined my sense of proportion. That sounds good for only a weekend holiday :)
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07:22	lue	I overall like this fanfic so far. The author has given Harry a much more Artemis Fowl type personality. .oO(must...write....review......)
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07:25	sorear	lue: it's impossible to fill an infinitely large space with air at a constant pressure, look up the bekenstein bound
07:27	sorear	masak: isn't that spelled if $<directive>:exists ?
07:27	masak	sorear: modulo feature availability, yes, probably.
07:28	sorear	59m 50s 85.58%
07:33	* sorear	wonders whether mothly releases would be good
07:33	sorear	What do poeple do with yapsi monthlies anyway?
07:35	moritz_	they read the release announcements, and chuckle :-)
07:36	moritz_	but people do install the rakudo monthlies
07:36	sorear	part of me wants to just announce the project, then make people follow git
07:36	sorear	std: { $^a }
07:36	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
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07:41	masak	the August Yapsi release has had more downloads than the August Rakudo release.
07:42	masak	of course, that's because of Rakudo Star... but still.
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07:43	sorear	odd that niecza-std is warning on { $^a }
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08:03	dalek	niecza: c67c2b0 \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
08:03	dalek	niecza: [v6] fix placeholder generation
08:03	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/c67c2b062b
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08:11	sorear	niecza: my %x; %x<used>++; say %x.dump
08:11	p6eval	niecza 43b4a24: OUTPUT«{}␤»
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08:24	lue	goodnight o/
08:24	sorear	niecza: my $a ::= 1; $a++; say $a;
08:24	p6eval	niecza 43b4a24: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Writing to readonly scalar␤ at line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤ at line 970 (SAFE G1088ANONC @ 5)␤ at line 970 (SAFE module-SAFE @ 28)␤ at line 970 (SAFE mainline @ 1)␤ at line 0 (boot @ 1)␤ at line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤"mono" unexpectedly returned
08:24	p6eval	..exit v…
08:27	dalek	niecza: e289709 \| sorear++ \| / (3 files):
08:27	dalek	niecza: Fix optimized ++ not autovivifying
08:27	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/e289709269
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08:33	sorear	hrm, S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t requires 'use graphemes' semantics
08:34	masak	Rakudo doesn't have that either.
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08:37	sorear	I worry that compiling STD for graphemes mode will push it well into "unusably slow" territory
08:37	dalek	niecza: e8f039c \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
08:37	dalek	niecza: [v6] fix anon enums
08:37	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/e8f039c76c
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09:10	sorear	std: my @a = 1; f(my @x = (1, 2, 3));
09:10	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«===[0mSORRY!===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'f' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 123m␤»
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09:39	Monty_P	Hello all..
09:39	moritz_	hi Monty_P
09:39	sorear	Hello
09:41	Monty_P	perl6: say 'testing... :-\|!'
09:41	p6eval	pugs, rakudo : OUTPUT«testing... :-\|!␤»
09:42	masak	hi Monty_P
09:42	* moritz_	wonders if that nick stands for "Monty Perl" :-)
09:42	masak	or 'Monty Pascal'...
09:43	Monty_P	@moritz_: Monty lisP! ;)
09:43	moritz_	Monty_P: ah, good one
09:43	masak	Monty Pascal...a variant of Pascal where all strings must be 255 bytes long or longer.
09:44	dalek	niecza: 9da8467 \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
09:44	dalek	niecza: [v6] fix parsing of assignments in parameter lists
09:44	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/9da8467598
09:45	sorear	Is it just me, or are the people who say @somebody: disproportionately more likely to be sane?
09:48	masak	sorear: haven't thought of it in that light.
09:49	masak	sorear: I tend to associate the habit with newcomers, or die-hard twitterers.
09:49	Monty_P	How is perl6 doing regarding GUI programming?
09:50	moritz_	Monty_P: you can access the p5 TK library through blizkost
09:50	moritz_	I don't know of any native ports
09:50	sorear	I saw a blog post about a failed grant to wrap Tk once
09:51	sorear	so I was compelled to do something
09:51	moritz_	I found that grant a bit weird
09:51	moritz_	somebody who has never interacted with the p6 community in some way
09:51	* sorear	vaguely wants to do a WinForms or gtk# binding now
09:52	Monty_P	moritz_: I see..
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09:53	moritz_	sorear: is there an easy way to access C# libs from niecza?
09:53	moritz_	I mean, without hacking on the compiler :-)
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09:56	sorear	FSVO easy
09:56	sorear	you need to use Q:CgOp{} blocks
09:56	sorear	and some rather arcane instructions
09:57	sorear	also there's no support for adding references, so you can only use standard C# libs
09:57	sorear	but if "easy" = "without hacking the compiler proper", then yes :)
09:57	moritz_	:-)
09:58	mathw	What's the spec like in Perl 6 for foreign imports?
09:59	sorear	of course, I'd eventually like to just say use WinForms:from<CLS Windows.Forms>;
09:59	moritz_	the syntax is basically use SomeModule:from<lang>;
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09:59	sorear	CLS = Common Language Standard = the .NET interop spec
10:00	moritz_	the spec is not very rigorous at this point :-)
10:00	moritz_	it's one of the areas that need implementation exploration first
10:00	sorear	blizkost was in part an exploration of that
10:00	sorear	but i ran into a lot of walls on the Parrot side
10:01	sorear	places where there is no standard way to do something, so I can't portably access foreign objects
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10:02	sorear	vtables are just words. VTABLE_iter implementations in Parrot are all-pairs incompatible
10:02	moritz_	it's a little sad how much work happens in parrot regarding language interop, considering that it's one of the key selling points
10:02	moritz_	otoh I'm also sad that there's not more work in dozens of other areas, so my critic isn't well placed either :-)
10:03	sorear	frankly at this point I'm not convinced that general interop is possible
10:03	sorear	the CLS allows any two languages to interop to the extent they can emulate C# APIs :)
10:05	sorear	general interop -> interop as general as parrot wants to promise
10:05	mathw	yes there are always some limitations
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10:05	mathw	all the interesting languages on the JVM seem to screw around with the object model
10:06	mathw	they can talk to Java objects no trouble, but Java might have some problems talking to theirs...
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10:12	masak	mathw: it's hard to be forward-compatible in such a case.
10:12	masak	mathw: maybe something like CLOS would pull it off.
10:13	masak	then again, maybe not.
10:13	mathw	yeah it is hard
10:13	mathw	I suppose you'd have to built metaclass into the VM
10:13	mathw	and allow libraries to provide their metaclasses
10:14	mathw	and somehow hope that you got the design right so that this could then provide all the functionality required
10:14	mathw	but the host languages might then not have the syntax for it
10:14	mathw	so you'd still be screwed
10:14	dalek	niecza: 28aad16 \| sorear++ \| lib/Kernel.cs:
10:14	dalek	niecza: Do not crash for objects without Numeric methods
10:14	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/28aad167f1
10:14	dalek	niecza: 8405b8e \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
10:14	dalek	niecza: [v6] Add STD.clean_id
10:14	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/8405b8e3e3
10:14	mathw	total interop is only possible in the area where all involved agree on a basic set of things they can do
10:14	mathw	hence CLS and its particular requirements
10:15	sorear	blizkost allows you to marshal exactly two kinds of data between Parrot and Perl 5
10:15	sorear	strings and closures
10:18	masak	breakfast for champions.
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12:11	masak	agentzh! \o/
12:15	masak	rakudo: role A { method foo { ... }; method bar { say "HAI" } }; role B { method foo { say "OH" }; method bar { ... } }; class C does A does B {}; .foo && .bar given C.new
12:15	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'foo' collides and a resolution must be provided by the class␤»
12:15	masak	that should work, right?
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12:19	moritz_	masak: yes, it should
12:20	* masak	submits rakudobug
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12:27	agentzh	masak! \o/
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12:36	masak	PHP 5.4 gets roles -- but calls them traits, like Smalltalk does. http://simas.posterous.com/new-to-php-54-traits
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12:37	masak	they have a special syntax for method resolution.
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12:38	moritz_	and they use 'use' for trait application
12:39	masak	de gustibus non est disputandum :)
12:40	* moritz_	didn't dispute anything :-)
12:41	masak	that's disputable. :)
12:41	* moritz_	contradicts, just because.
12:42	masak	current score: confusion 1 -- sense 0
12:44	moritz_	then I won :-)
12:44	masak	yes :/
12:45	* masak	sleeps a bit
12:45		masak left #perl6
12:47	moritz_	wow, the fastest way to iterate a string in perl 5 to reverse it, and then call chop repeatedly: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=873073
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12:57	takadonet	morning all
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13:25	mdxi	moritz_: that's really interesting
13:25	mdxi	the most interesting bit, to me, is that using file IO semantics on memory is so slow
13:25	mdxi	this leads me to believe there's a lot about file IO that i don't know
13:26	moritz_	mdxi: slow? it's faster than the operation that I'd usually use
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13:28	mdxi	it's slower than 4 other ways to do it, though. 6X slower :)
13:28	mdxi	(max)
13:28	mdxi	no, 3.5X
13:28	mdxi	i can't math
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13:28	moritz_	3 other ways
13:28	moritz_	chop and reverseChop are basically the same
13:29	moritz_	excep that reverseChop traverses the string backwards
13:29	moritz_	*except
13:30	dlynes	Has perl become more readable with v6, and possibly more structured?
13:30		dual left #perl6
13:30	moritz_	yes
13:30	dlynes	Ah...so it's not a write-only language, anymore? :)
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13:31	takadonet	dlynes: not anymore
13:31	moritz_	not more than any other high level language you chose to (ab)use
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13:31	dlynes	Ok, cool...thanks
13:31	dlynes	And it's come out as a final release now, too?
13:31	tadzik	dlynes: how is Perl 5 write-only for you?
13:32	moritz_	dlynes: no. "final" implies "we've stopped working on it"
13:32	daxim_	there isn't any final release for any language
13:32	moritz_	there's no production release either
13:32	dlynes	tadzik, I just find it horribly unreadable with all the $@, $_, #@, $$, $$$, ...
13:32	tadzik	IMHO someone that can't write readable Perl 5 code cannot write readble code anyway, in any language
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13:32	moritz_	just preview releases for those interesting in playing with things
13:33	tadzik	dlynes: the dereferencing syntax is gone :)
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13:33	tadzik	but $_ is still there, and I don't think that's wrong
13:33	moritz_	but only 3 special variables left
13:33	dlynes	tadzik, so it's more similar to python, now?
13:33	tadzik	hell no!
13:33	dlynes	bash, then?
13:33	tadzik	why?
13:33	daxim_	funny, I find C-syntax derivatives nearly unreadable because of the lack of sigils. is it a variable? a type? a built-in/function?
13:33	tadzik	what makes you think so?
13:34	moritz_	(well, 4, but one of them is only interesting when you hack on the regex engine, or so)
13:34	moritz_	dlynes: Perl 6 still uses sigils (though immutable), and {} for scoping
13:34	dlynes	moritz_, perl 5 used {} for scoping too, didn't it?
13:35	tadzik	dlynes: https://github.com/tadzik/neut[…]master/bin/neutro example code
13:35	moritz_	dlynes: that's why I wrote "still" :-)
13:35	dlynes	ok...point taken
13:36	dlynes	ah...ok....yeah...looks way more readable than perl 5
13:36	tadzik	a plenty of things are now more consistent and sane (imho)
13:37	dlynes	yeah...still looks like perl, but the code is more readable, and seems to have enforced parameters/prototypes now
13:37	dlynes	Not to mention whatever a 'multi' is
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13:38	moritz_	just a sub, of which multiple can have the same name
13:39	dlynes	Ah...so subroutine overloading
13:39	takadonet	yes
13:39	moritz_	right; but it's really not the same thing as in C++
13:40	moritz_	in C++ the overloading is resolved by the declared type of the arguments (and at compile time)
13:40	daxim_	rakudo: sub crap { say "signatures not enforced?" }; crap;
13:40	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«signatures not enforced?␤»
13:40	dlynes	That's fine...I'm used to C++, Java, Python, and SOM
13:40	moritz_	in Perl 6 they are resolved at run time, by the actual type
13:40	moritz_	daxim_: there are default signatures (which rakudo enforces just fine)
13:41	moritz_	rakudo: sub crap { say "foo" }; crap(1, 2)
13:41	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 0␤ in 'crap' at line 1:/tmp/fKISciucfG␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fKISciucfG␤»
13:41	dlynes	moritz_, I'm guessing the intent is the same as C++ for the overloading...it's just that perl6 functions differently under the hood than C++, and that's why the discrepancy
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13:42	dlynes	s/discrepancy/difference/
13:42	moritz_	it's also the principle of least suprise
13:42	takadonet	rakudo: multi run(Str $in){ say "i'm a str";}; multi run(Int $in) { say "i'm a num"}; run(5);run("hello");
13:42	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«i'm a num␤i'm a str␤»
13:43	moritz_	consider classes A and B, B inherits from A
13:43	moritz_	if you have, in C++ A *var = new B;
13:43	moritz_	and then call foo(A), it will dispatch to a foo(A) variant, even if foo(B) exists
13:44	moritz_	in Perl 6 it would be the B variant that gets chosen
13:44	moritz_	which is less surprising, IMHO
13:49	tadzik	moreover...
13:50	tadzik	rakudo: multi foo($a where { $a > 5}) { "Over 5"}; multi foo($a where { $a > 7} ) { "Over 7" }; say foo(9)
13:50	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'foo'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:(Any $a where ({ ... }))␤:(Any $a where ({ ... }))␤␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/cBOO_jF2wv␤»
13:50	tadzik	oops
13:50	moritz_	rakudo: multi f(0) { 1 }; multi f(Int $x) { $x * f($x-1) }; say f 5
13:50	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«120␤»
13:50	tadzik	rakudo: multi foo($a where { $a > 5}) { "Over 5"}; multi foo($a where { $a < 5 } ) { "Below 5" }; say foo(9)
13:50	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«Over 5␤»
13:50	tadzik	right
13:50	tadzik	so it's not only types
13:51	* moritz_	wonders what exceptions from type checks do
13:51	moritz_	rakudo: sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:51	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tm…
13:51	tadzik	rakudo: say "before"; sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:51	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«before␤OH NOEZ␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤ in 'f' at lin…
13:52	tadzik	rakudo: say "before"; sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; say "before-after";f 3
13:52	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«before␤before-after␤OH NOEZ␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤ …
13:52	tadzik	makes sense
13:52	moritz_	rakudo: multi f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:52	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤ in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤ in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tm…
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13:58	takadonet	dlynes: any other questions?
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14:00	dlynes	No, that was it....thanks
14:00	dlynes	Was just curious if perl6 was not in beta anymore, and if it was more readable than perl 5
14:01	takadonet	Well not in beta but not production either
14:01	dlynes	well...actually....does perl6 have something like cpan as well?
14:01	takadonet	we are slowly porting modules over
14:01	takadonet	http://modules.perl6.org/
14:01	takadonet	Not a full fledge cpan since we are not sure what we are going to do
14:01	dlynes	ah...so perl6 is currently prerelease, status, then, or public wide beta?
14:01	takadonet	Might make a cpan6 or attach ourselves to the current one
14:01	takadonet	public wide beta
14:02	takadonet	anyone can download it and hack away
14:02	dlynes	ok, thanks
14:03	tadzik	well, perl6 is a language actually. The 'public beta' thing, is the implementation
14:03	daxim_	dlynes, talk to your colleagues/user group about what you learned today
14:06	dlynes	daxim_, yeah...i've got a friend that's been waiting for perl6 to come out...he ended up learning python just so he wouldn't have to learn perl5, because perl6 wasn't available at that time
14:07	tadzik	I'd go for Ruby in such situation
14:07	tadzik	but still, I ended up learning Perl 6 even though it's not "out" :)
14:08	dlynes	yeah...he's not interested in ruby...it reminds him of java too much :)
14:10	tadzik	well, I'm not interested in python... it reminds me of python too much :)
14:10	dlynes	Yeah..for me, I don't have a choice
14:10	dlynes	Python's the best platform for OPC
14:11	dlynes	So python's my only language for automation control
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14:12	dlynes	However, for system admin/monitoring scripts, I use a combination of perl 5, bash script, awk, sed, python, cut
14:13	tadzik	you mean using `` in Perl all the time?
14:13	tadzik	Watch out, or you'll end up as a PostgreSQL dev :>
14:14	moritz_	tadzik: in sysadmin scripts I do that too
14:14	tadzik	well... but sed?
14:14	tadzik	for sed -i probably
14:15	tadzik	but right, sysadmin scripts follow their own rules
14:15	tadzik	TIMTWITIWWC -- There is more than one way to "it works who cares" :)
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14:17	dlynes	tadzik, piping stuff through sed -e, or cut -d':' -f25, ...
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14:18	* moritz_	is always annoyed that cut only accepts single characters as delimiters
14:18	moritz_	seriously, how hard can it be to allow splitting on arbitrary strings?
14:19	PerlJam	different implementation priorities perhaps
14:19	tadzik	dlynes: now piping stuff through sed -e in Perl is something I don't understand at all :)
14:19	tadzik	moritz_: they probably use strtok() :)
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14:20	moritz_	PerlJam: that's exactly it. Implementation difficulty as priority, not user experience
14:20	PerlJam	tadzik: if you already have the shell script that uses sed that you're converting to Perl, then, as an interim step, it may be easier to just leave the sed part alone.
14:20	tadzik	probably
14:21	PerlJam	tadzik: and maybe, once you've taken that step, it's not worth it to go "whole hog" in converting it to Perl
14:21	moritz_	tadzik: strtok works with string delimiters, not single chars
14:22	PerlJam	moritz_: What's amazing (to me) is that cut hasn't been improved in the manner that you describe over the years. I understand the first couple of versions only using single char delimiters because they were written decades ago and developed a little momentum to stay that way. But after a few years, surely someone would have the same thought as you about improving it
14:23	PerlJam	moritz_: but perhaps, by that time, there were other tools that competed in that niche (awk, perl, etc.) and it wasn't really important to update cut
14:23	moritz_	PerlJam: right
14:23	dlynes	tadzik, i don't use sed with perl...I use it in bash scripts
14:23	moritz_	I'd be surprised if 'cut' were younger than 20 years
14:24	PerlJam	moritz_: I've been using unix for > 20 years and cut was an old tool when I first started (or so it seemed to me)
14:26	tadzik	ah, I see
14:26	tadzik	moritz_: oh. Then I don't get it at all
14:26	tadzik	dlynes: I see
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14:32	colomon	jnthn: ping?
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14:43	* MindosCheng	is watching http://www.nuug.no/aktiviteter[…]tools-large-apps/
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14:44	takadonet	MindosCheng: it's a good presentation
14:44	moritz_	indeed, I liked it very much
14:45	jnthn	Wish I'd been there to see that one...
14:45	jnthn	colomon: pong (but I'm a bit distracted by $dayjob...)
14:45	colomon	current nqp-rx error is
14:45	colomon	Null PMC access in push_string()
14:45	colomon	current instr.: 'parrot;NQP;Compiler;' pc 100444 (gen/nqp-grammar.pir:0)
14:45	colomon	called from Sub 'parrot;NQP;Compiler;main' pc 100450 (gen/nqp-grammar.pir:0)
14:46	colomon	seems to me this is probably happening in the sequence
14:46	colomon	$P0 = getattribute nqpproto, '@!cmdoptions'
14:46	colomon	push $P0, 'parsetrace'
14:46	colomon	(in NPQ::Compiler sub '') but I don't have the foggiest clue why.
14:47	moritz_	has @!cmdoptions ever been initialized?
14:48	moritz_	if not, it's Null, and you get a NPMCA
14:48	jnthn	I'm guessing not...question is where it got initialized before...
14:48	jnthn	wait...getattribute on a proto object?
14:49	jnthn	That's either bad naming or wrong.
14:52	jnthn	colomon: Oh, one important difference is that attribute accesses need to be fully qualified with a class name in 6model too
14:53	jnthn	So getattribute obj, '@!foo' is probably not going to work.
14:53	jnthn	Would need to be
14:53	colomon	nqpproto = p6meta.'new_class'('NQP::Compiler', 'parent'=>'HLL::Compiler')
14:53	jnthn	getattribute obj, type_object_for_class_where_attr_is_declared, '@!foo'
14:53	jnthn	huh, it's trying to set an attribute on a proto-object then?!
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14:54	jnthn	That's...not good. I wonder how we've been getting away with that.
14:54	colomon	is how nqpproto is created. previously the call was getattribute nqpproto, '@cmdoptions', and @cmdoptions was a Parrot attribute.
14:54	colomon	I may have completely misunderstood things. I only like 33% understand this code.
14:55	* colomon	is suspicious that asking him to work on this was an attempt to increase the bus number on some funky code. ;)
14:55	jnthn	I didn't quite intend it to be as tricky as it's starting to turn out... :)
14:56	colomon	Mind you, I'm enjoying puzzling over it.
14:57	jnthn	:)
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14:58	colomon	Are you actually looking at the code in question? src/NQP/Compiler.pir?
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14:59	colomon	I've changed @cmdoptions to @!cmdoptions (because it's now a NQP object instead of inheriting from the Parrot HLL::Compiler) but other than that it's the same, I believe.
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15:22	jnthn	colomon: Yeah, and it's certainly wrong. It really does appear to be trying to set attributes in the proto object. :/
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15:22	jnthn	colomon: oh, but it's also using P6object there rather than 6model too...
15:23	colomon	is it possible they are somehow (not sure the proper p6 terms) class-wide attributes rather than per-object attributes?
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15:27	jnthn	colomon: There's no such thing in Perl 6...
15:27	jnthn	colomon: I think that's what was being done
15:27	jnthn	colomon: But it was not really supported under P6object
15:27	jnthn	So I think it accidentally worked rather than was correct.
15:28	jnthn	6model probably explicitly bans it 'cus it's just not meant to be possible.
15:28	jnthn	(and probably breaks definedness checking)
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15:36	colomon	So a patch here would require a bit of a rewrite, yes?
15:37	* colomon	decides to commit what he has and try to figure out how to push his branch to github, just to have a backup.
15:37	PerlPilot	colomon++ good idea
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15:39	PerlJam	colomon: btw, git push origin branch-name # assuming your github remote repo is called "origin"
15:40	colomon	PerlJam++ colomon-- # first attempt I literally typed in "branch-name" rather than using the actual branch name.
15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: 60d7e50 \| (Solomon Foster)++ \| src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: Break HLL::Compiler away from PCT::HLLCompiler.
15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/60d7e50439
15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: e18ba58 \| (Solomon Foster)++ \| src/NQP/Compiler.pir:
15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: Try to fix code to use the new @!cmdoptions, but apparently the original code was broken and so the fix does nothing useful.
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15:40	dalek	nqp-rx/nomnom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e18ba581c2
15:40	PerlJam	heh
15:40	colomon	oh, cool!
15:43	moritz_	colomon++ # nice branch name
15:43	colomon	;)
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15:54	MindosCheng	I guess some operation in Perl6 can be very fast by special design, like "==>" and "\|"
15:55		Guest22809 left #perl6
15:55	PerlJam	"special design"?
15:55	MindosCheng	PerlJam: like using special hardware, like CUDA.
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15:58	MindosCheng	PerlJam: And for pipeline, by sharing buffers, it works on some encoding/decoding system already.
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16:56	* sjn	checked out latest rakudo from git
16:56	sjn	<- getting lots of failing tests
16:57	colomon	platform?
16:57	sjn	ubuntu 10.04
16:57	sjn	"Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output"
16:58	colomon	what happens if you just execute perl6 by itself?
16:59	sjn	right
16:59	sjn	PackFile_unpack: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 9.1.
16:59	sjn	what files should I delete?
16:59	moritz_	sjn: rm -rf parrot_install/
16:59	sjn	(and why doesn't "make clean" take out those files? :-P)
16:59	moritz_	sjn: because they are installed files
17:00	colomon	sjn: when was the last time you built rakudo?
17:00	sjn	colomon: a while back, before I pulled latest last night
17:01	sjn	maybe a month
17:01	moritz_	what I don't understand is why a new install doesn't override it with new files
17:01	* colomon	is wondering if sjn still has svn parrot
17:01	sjn	no, the build script catched that one
17:01	sjn	(and yes, I had it
17:01	sjn	)
17:01		envi left #perl6
17:01	sjn	and then removed the parrot dir, and ran Configure.pl --gen-parrot
17:02	colomon	ah
17:02	sjn	just got a bit surprised that running with --gen-parrot didn't replace the previous install
17:05	moritz_	it does, unless the parrot version changes
17:06	sjn	sounds like a bug :)
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17:44	frettled	It's somewhat counter-intuitive, yes.
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17:53	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_variable_tablet
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18:52	* colomon	just came to his senses and realized asking Rakudo to parse a 250meg file was probably not a good idea.
18:52	colomon	btw, #phasers in 8min?
18:53	jnthn	7 mins now ;)
18:53	mberends	hi colomon, jnthn, yes :-)
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18:54	jnthn	mberends! \o/
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19:01	pmichaud_	ENOFEATHER?
19:01	pmichaud	oh, there it is.
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19:13	sorear	57m 21s 87.01%
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19:27	sorear	100 failures; 53x Check failed, 26x Parse failed, 18x Autoloading of STD::P5 NYI
19:28	sorear	3x Str.Numeric NYI
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19:34	TimToady	I consider TrigTestSupport.pm to be malformed Perl 6, btw
19:35	TimToady	but fixing it such that rakudo is happy with it is not yet possible, last I checked
19:35	TimToady	(several months ago)
19:36	TimToady	so I've just left them as STD failures for now
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19:40	colomon	TimToady: what, again, are your issues?
19:41	dalek	star: 41aa60f \| pmichaud++ \| skel/docs/announce/2010.11:
19:41	dalek	star: Add 2010.11 release announcement draft.
19:41	dalek	star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/41aa60f725
19:41	TimToady	iirc, relying on package export semantics rather than lexical
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19:42	* jnthn	thought Rakudo did import into the lexical scope...
19:42	colomon	TimToady: I think I could probably fix that now, though it might mean splitting it up into several different modules.
19:43	TimToady	that might work
19:43	* colomon	has gotten more useful experience in this area messing around with the ABC module.
19:43	TimToady	it would be useful to be able to export subclasses though too
19:44	colomon	sure, does anyone know the official status of exporting subclasses?
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19:45	TimToady	oh, probably "PhD dissertation fodder", like most of the rest of it... :)
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19:49	sorear	"Exporting subclasses"?
19:49	jnthn	TimToady: I don't see the issue with TrigTestSupport.
19:50	sorear	The problem with TrigTestSupport is that the classes aren't exported
19:50	jnthn	TimToady: AngleAndResult gets installed into GLOBAL:: no?
19:50	lue	An old laptop that gets hot easily is very nice after shoveling snow :)
19:50	sorear	Yes, but you can only access it as GLOBAL::AngleAndResult
19:50	diakopter	hah
19:50	sorear	There's no lexical alias
19:51	jnthn	:/
19:51	* jnthn	had it as "we statically know this name isn't lexical so go find it as a package"
19:52	lue	happy 47th anniversary of Doctor Who \o/ [o and hai o/]
19:52	sorear	as the kind of person who swears by use strict, I am very, very, very, very strongly opposed to that interpretation
19:52	jnthn	er
19:53	jnthn	I use strict too and I don't have a problem with this.
19:54	pmichaud	there really isn't a "go find it as a package" any longer
19:54	pmichaud	it's all lexical, iiuc
19:54	jnthn	everything is lexical lookups?
19:54	pmichaud	we massively cheat on that in rakudo
19:54	jnthn	So how does
19:54	jnthn	my class Foo { }
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19:54	jnthn	class Foo { }
19:54	jnthn	Really differ?
19:54	pmichaud	is the latter really "our class Foo"?
19:54	jnthn	Yes
19:55	pmichaud	it differs by putting a symbol for "Foo" into the package namespace
19:55	jnthn	Which you can only really get at by qualifying it with GLOBAL:: ?
19:55	pmichaud	(as well as one in the lexical namespace)
19:55	sorear	the former is accessible as MY::Foo and Foo; the latter is also accessible as OUR::Foo and GLOBAL::Foo
19:55	pmichaud	just like other 'our' variables
19:55	sorear	the interesting issue is class A { class B { } }
19:55	Tene	lue: dr who starting up again in about a month
19:55	sorear	B MUST be our
19:55	pmichaud	when I have "our $x" we get entries for $x in both the package and in the lexpad
19:56	sorear	because if it's my, then the A::B symbol won't be installed
19:56	jnthn	OK
19:56	jnthn	Makes me happy
19:56	jnthn	I don't ahve to bother optimizing package access much now ;)
19:56	pmichaud	but yes, nearly all symbol lookups are lexical
19:56	lue	Tene: next season is supposed to be split in two halves, one half in spring the other in the fall. \o/
19:57	pmichaud	even when there's a :: involved, the root part is a lexical lookup :-)
19:57	PerlJam	sorear: so what's the relationship between class A::B { } and class A { class B { ... } }
19:57	PerlJam	"
19:57	PerlJam	?
19:57	jnthn	pmichaud: nqp on .Net leans a LOT more in the lexical direction
19:57	pmichaud	jnthn: good, because it needs to
19:57	jnthn	pmichaud: The setting has lexicals in it only
19:57	pmichaud	there really only are "lexicals" in perl 6
19:57	jnthn	pmichaud: It can't have package scopes because, er, NQPStash is defined in there. :)
19:58	pmichaud	packages are just alternate namespaces... but they're looked up lexically
19:58	jnthn	pmichaud: OK. Feel free to review the way I have it and suggest changes
19:58	jnthn	pmichaud: I suspect what I do in the .Net NQP can be our pattern for nqp-rx
19:58	pmichaud	i.e., if I have A::B::C, we start with a lexical lookup of A
19:58	jnthn	That's...awkward.
19:59	jnthn	How do we differentiate between the stash and the type object in this case?
19:59	pmichaud	type objects have to support a package API
19:59	pmichaud	or the ::'s extract the stash from the type object
19:59	pmichaud	(like an operator)
19:59	jnthn	OK, so :: calls .WHO really
19:59	pmichaud	yeah, that's a good way of thinking about it
20:00	jnthn	I like my macros :)
20:01	jnthn	Though I realized when I made .HOW and .WHAT be those in nqp-rx that...P6object is now rather impossible to work with. D'oh.
20:01	jnthn	May need to fathmom some fallback or something
20:01	sorear	PerlJam: I have no idea what class A::B is supposed to do
20:01	jnthn	Otherwise the whole of PAST needs porting to the new meta-model to make any progress...
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20:02	sorear	jnthn: I wound up using fat references in Niecza, i.e. A uses two slots A and A::
20:02	sorear	and A::B means A::<B>
20:02	pmichaud	porting whole may end up being not that difficult
20:02	sorear	because, mostly, of stub packages
20:02	pmichaud	A:: slot is interesting
20:02	sorear	the existance of A::B doesn't imply anything about A
20:02	jnthn	pmichaud: The other issue is that I'm not sure Parrot's multi dispatcher will know what to do with the new objects...
20:02	pmichaud	that's a very useful start
20:02	lichtkind	TimToady: are $() and item() interchangeable
20:03	pmichaud	lichtkind: .item, probably
20:03	pmichaud	@() ends up being .list, so I'd expect $() to be .item
20:03	lambdabot	Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do ft id pl rc v wn
20:03	jnthn	OH NO lambdabot!
20:03	pmichaud	.oO( who let lambdabot back in here?!?)
20:03	jnthn	@part
20:03	lambdabot	Not enough privileges
20:04	pmichaud	I'm certain that whatever lambdabot said is not what I meant. :-)
20:04	jnthn	screw you!
20:04	sorear	@part
20:04	lambdabot	Plugin `system' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list
20:04	sorear	@part #perl6
20:04		lambdabot left #perl6
20:04	lue	who is lambdabot? Should I get some popcorn for an epic backstory?
20:04	jnthn	lol
20:04	pmichaud	hmmm... compiling core.pm seems much slower than a month ago :-(
20:05	oha	i would expect that class A { class B { } } declares 2 classes, while class A::B { } declares only one.
20:05	sorear	oha: class A::B { } is closer to package A { class B { } }
20:05		icwiener left #perl6
20:06	pmichaud	class A::B { } declares a class B within package A (as obtained by lexical lookup of A). If there is no A, then it's created within the current scope.
20:06	Tene	lue: a bot that we have trouble keeping out without banning it, and who speaks when not spoken to.
20:06	sorear	the fun issues are ones like "what if A already exists, but is imported"
20:06	pmichaud	then we use that A
20:06	sorear	lambdabot only speaks when spoken to.
20:06	pmichaud	iiuc
20:06	sorear	@ is her true name
20:07	sorear	conveniently, Haskell never uses @ at the start of an expression
20:08	sorear	pmichaud: without MONKEY_TYPING?
20:08	* jnthn	tries to work out where MONKEY_TYPING comes into this...
20:08	pmichaud	sorear: good question... but I think so. Otherwise I don't know how things like use Foo; use Foo::Bar; are to work
20:09	jnthn	I thought that only affected augment/supercede?
20:10	pmichaud	well, one could think of a class declaration as "augmenting" a package. But I don't think it's really an augment in that way.
20:10	sorear	jnthn: class Foo::Bar means augment package Foo { class Bar }
20:10	TimToady	sorear: packages are not immutable
20:11	jnthn	sorear: I don't see it that way.
20:12	pmichaud	class Foo::Bar means something like Foo::<Bar> := class { ... }
20:12	TimToady	and in any case, we'd want to make this an exception
20:12	pmichaud	declaring Foo:: if need be
20:12	jnthn	I figure MONKEY_TYPING mostly just means "you can't use augment and supercede"
20:13	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]l_6_lookup_tablet
20:14	TimToady	the package naming path is an "easement", in legal terms :)
20:14	jnthn	:)
20:15	PerlJam	So ... what's the essential difference between packages and modules? modules export and packages don't?
20:16	TimToady	correct
20:17	TimToady	and a class is just a module that also knows how to .^add_method and such
20:17	sorear	adding "is export" to the classes and sticking "module TrigTestSupport;" on top makes the trig tests parse
20:17	TimToady	in which?
20:18	TimToady	in niecza?
20:18	TimToady	as I recall, that used to break rakudo
20:22	sorear	in STD
20:23		icwiener_ left #perl6
20:23	* sorear	goes and tries to get niecza's setting to parse
20:24	pmichaud	afk, travelling
20:30	takadonet	how do you export variables from a module? Is it the same syntax as a sub? i.e sub dosomething() is export { .. } ?
20:30	TimToady	std: my $x is export = 42;
20:30	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
20:31	takadonet	rakudo: my $x is export = 42;
20:31	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any :rw($rw)!)␤:(Mu $type…
20:31	TimToady	NYI, but you'll notice it parses
20:32	TimToady	rakudo: module Foo { my $x is export = 42; }
20:32	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any :rw($rw)!)␤:(Mu $type…
20:32	TimToady	I guess that doesn't help.
20:33	takadonet	just have to do the full path
20:33	jnthn	Just umimplemented trait handler, looks like.
20:33	TimToady	takadonet: there isn't a full path, if it's a "my"
20:34	TimToady	jnthn: so potentially a LHF?
20:35	jnthn	TimToady: In theory. :)
20:35	jnthn	I mean, the code is there for routines, and this should be easier since it doesn't have to worry about merging multis being explorted.
20:35	jnthn	er, exported :)
20:36	jnthn	.oO( explorted would be such a cool word if it existed...)
20:36	TimToady	sounds like something from Calvin and Hobbes
20:36	takadonet	TimToady: i will using 'our'
20:36	moritz_	(Calvin and Hobbes)++
20:36	takadonet	rakudo: module Foo { our $x =42; } say $Foo::x;
20:36	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "module Foo"␤»
20:36	takadonet	..
20:37	takadonet	rakudo: module Foo { our $x =42; }; say $Foo::x;
20:37	moritz_	takadonet: ; after }
20:37	PerlJam	you're missing a ;
20:37	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«42␤»
20:37	takadonet	moritz_: always forget it
20:37	PerlJam	(though that error isn't the nicest)
20:37	takadonet	anyway that what I have being doing so far so will continue for the other modules
20:38	TimToady	std: module Foo { our $x =42; } say $Foo::x;
20:38	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«===[0mSORRY!===[0m␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/kZxeS9H2Cq line 1:␤------> module Foo { our $x =42; }⏏ say $Foo::x;␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement
20:38	p6eval	..modifier loop␤Pa…
20:41	* jnthn	wonders if that error isn't LHF to add to Rakudo too
20:41	PerlJam	jnthn: I was wondering exactly the same thing
20:42	oha	LHF?
20:42	moritz_	low-hanging fruit
20:42	arnsholt	Low Hanging Fruit. Easy targets to fix
20:42	oha	nice, ty
20:43	arnsholt	Often used as the gateway drug to catch new contributors =)
20:44		kjeldahl left #perl6
20:44	TimToady	after which you will have knowledge of Good and Evil...
20:44	jnthn	Improving Rakudo: good. Breaking Rakudo: Evil.
20:45	oha	jnthn, ... and why you capitalized Evil? :)
20:46	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]gi?perl_6_tablets
20:46	TimToady	that's not it; he forgot to capitalize Good
20:46	sorear	std: sub ($) { }
20:46	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
20:47		tylercurtis left #perl6
20:47	sorear	std: sub ($*) {}
20:47	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«===[0mSORRY!===[0m␤Unable to parse signature at /tmp/HsMtWbhBEf line 1:␤------> sub ⏏($) {}␤Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/HsMtWbhBEf line 1:␤------> sub ($⏏) {}␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤ param_sep␤
20:47	p6eval	.. parameter␤ t…
20:48		florz left #perl6
20:48	lue	afk
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20:50	TimToady	std: sub (*$) { }
20:50	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
20:51		timbunce left #perl6
20:51	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_cookbook_tablet
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21:03	lichtkind	TimToady: would you please approve http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]t#contextualizers
21:05		florz joined #perl6
21:07	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_cookbook_tablet
21:08		plainhao left #perl6
21:11	cosimo	what do I use to throw an exception? tried skimming through S04, but didn't get it
21:11	cosimo	die maybe?
21:12	moritz_	die
21:13	PerlJam	cosimo: you could have jumped right to the section on exception and read it rather than skimming :)
21:14		ab5tract left #perl6
21:15	arnsholt	Hmm. I think Rakduo is supposed to panic with "Malformed package declaration" on the "module {} $code" example, but for some reason it doesn't
21:16	jnthn	std: module {} $code
21:16	cosimo	PerlJam: I read it... :-\|
21:16	p6eval	std a194beb: OUTPUT«===[0mSORRY!===[0m␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/tL15rSVLP4 line 1:␤------> module {}⏏ $code␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤Parse
21:16	p6eval	..failed␤FAILED 00:01 …
21:16		espadrine` joined #perl6
21:16	jnthn	rakudo: module {} $code
21:16	p6eval	rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "module {} "␤»
21:17	arnsholt	(Lines 865, 866 of Perl6/Grammar.pm, if you wondered)
21:18		espadrine` left #perl6
21:18	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_variable_tablet
21:19	jnthn	arnsholt: I think that it parses a package just fine, then expects not to find a term next, and only then hits the problem
21:19		fhelmberger left #perl6
21:19	arnsholt	Yah
21:19	PerlJam	arnsholt: It's probably somewhere down in the parsing of blockoid where it recognizes that there's a problem.
21:20	arnsholt	My suspect is ENDSTMT
21:20	arnsholt	The full match of that is quantified with ?, so it will always match
21:21		pyrimidine left #perl6
21:21	* arnsholt	tries something
21:21		pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:22	arnsholt	Yeah. Not that
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_regex_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]subroutine_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]?perl_6_io_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_block_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_operator_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]gi?perl_6_tablets
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]age_design_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]_6_history_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_intro_tablet
21:23	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_variable_tablet
21:24	dalek	mu: abe2be5 \| (Cosimo Streppone)++ \| docs/feather/syn_index.html:
21:24	dalek	mu: Clarify where the mu repository is for noobs like me
21:24	dalek	mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/abe2be51cb
21:25	lichtkind	sorry for spam i had to change the index
21:25	tadzik	lichtkind++ # leaking karma
21:26	lichtkind	tadzik: what you mean by that?
21:26	tadzik	lichtkind: you aren't getting your karma :)
21:27	tadzik	karma lichtkind
21:27	aloha	lichtkind has karma of 4.
21:27	tadzik	karma Herbert Breunung
21:27	aloha	Herbert Breunung has karma of 55.
21:27	tadzik	see? :)
21:27	lichtkind	so all my karmo goes to my alter ego
21:27	lichtkind	that i call ego boosting
21:28	lichtkind	karma moritz_
21:28	aloha	moritz_ has karma of 85.
21:28	PerlJam	Doesn't dalek have some sort of aliasing ability?
21:28	lichtkind	karma moritz
21:28	aloha	moritz has karma of 167.
21:29	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_index_tablet
21:29	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]l_6_lookup_tablet
21:29	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]perl_6_oop_tablet
21:29	moritz_	karma (Herbert Breunung)
21:29	aloha	(Herbert Breunung) has karma of 0.
21:30	moritz_	karma Herbert Breunung
21:30	aloha	Herbert Breunung has karma of 58.
21:30	moritz_	aloha: karma phenny: tell aloha karma phenny
21:30	aloha	moritz_: phenny: tell aloha karma phenny has karma of 0.
21:31	oha	moritz_, very close :)
21:31	cosimo	karma kameleon
21:31	aloha	kameleon has karma of 0.
21:32	cosimo	after this one, I can say goodnight :)
21:32	* moritz_	wonders when he'll reach bot recursion
21:32	moritz_	good night cosimo
21:32	* oha	waves cosimo
21:33	tadzik	~~
21:33	tadzik	sleepytime for me too
21:33	lichtkind	tadzik: good night
21:34	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_delta_tablet
21:34	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_links_tablet
21:34	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]6_cookbook_tablet
21:34	cosimo	perl6 is messing up my programming life
21:35	cosimo	I used to be happy and my programming days were fun
21:35	moritz_	and now it spoilt you?
21:35	moritz_	because you can see how programming should be?
21:36	cosimo	then during nighttime I'm sucked into the alternative world of perl6
21:36	cosimo	feels like The Matrix :-)
21:37	cosimo	moritz_: yeah
21:38	cosimo	last week I started this small project to port facter (ruby) to perl6
21:38	cosimo	it's been a fantastic learning experience
21:39	cosimo	and it's almost done too
21:39	arnsholt	Right. I've been able to improve the error message a bit at least
21:39	moritz_	Mr. Anderson has a secret live!
21:39	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]_of_perl_6_tablet
21:40	cosimo	ruby is cool but lack of sigils sucks, seriously
21:41	cosimo	'night, everyone
21:42	Tene	ruby's scoping is rather broken. :(
21:43	lichtkind	Tene: why?
21:44		Chillance joined #perl6
21:45	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]gi?perl_6_tablets
21:45	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]rl_6_intro_tablet
21:45	Tene	lichtkind: I don't actually remember; I just remembering being very frustrated at needing to implement it the wrong, broken way in my ruby compiler.
21:46	Tene	although the lack of declarations was also frustrating.
21:47	Tene	I think i may also have scoping gripes mixed up between python and ruby, so I don't want to give counterfactual details.
21:50	arnsholt	I know Python at least does that. Blocks don't create new lexical scopes
21:50		slavik1 left #perl6
21:50	arnsholt	So if you use a variable only inside a loop or a conditional, it's still available after it
21:51		slavik joined #perl6
21:51		masak joined #perl6
21:51	masak	ahoy!
21:51	arnsholt	Yarr, masak!
21:52	oha	arnsholt, in p5 there are cases where a variabile isn't destroyed, but it's no longer reachable. what do you exactly mean with available?
21:54	arnsholt	oha: Those are closures. In Python this works (but in Perl syntax, because I don't remember Python's exact syntax)
21:54	sjohnson	hi dudes
21:54	arnsholt	if(1) { $x = 6; } say $x; # Will print out 6
21:54	arnsholt	Even if $x was never used before in the program
21:56	oha	that's work in perl (unless use strict)
21:56	oha	p5 i mean
21:56	masak	sjohnson: salut
21:57	arnsholt	oha: Huh, didn't know that =)
21:57	oha	perl -e 'if(gmtime) { $x=3; } print $x, "\n"'
21:57	arnsholt	But you can't turn that off in Python (and not in Ruby either, I think)
21:57	oha	just tried :)
21:58	arnsholt	Me too =)
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22:04	jnthn	masak!
22:05	masak	jnthn! \o/
22:05	jnthn	masak: Snow! I has more of it! \o/
22:05		pochi left #perl6
22:05	masak	jnthn: I'm doing bets with myself to see how long you'll think snow is funny. :P
22:05		pochi joined #perl6
22:05	Tene	There's no snow where I live now. I expect to miss it.
22:06	jnthn	Like "rofl", snow has an o in it and is four chars long.
22:07	Tene	http://www.google.com/images?q=snow+lolcat
22:07	dalek	niecza: b2fa2f9 \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
22:07	dalek	niecza: [v6] Support Texas-quoted categoricals
22:07	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/b2fa2f94bc
22:07	dalek	niecza: e8a2b1c \| sorear++ \| v6/tryfile:
22:07	dalek	niecza: [v6] fix $ -> $Any()
22:07	dalek	niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niec[…]commit/e8a2b1cf4f
22:08	sorear	now it can parse the Niecza setting without complaining
22:08	jnthn	Tene: Bizzare image search results are bizzare.
22:08	sorear	time to start rewriting the compiler in perl 6!
22:08	Tene	Mmm, rewrites.
22:08	colomon	\o/
22:10	masak	sorear++
22:11	sorear	odd, it takes over a minute to parse
22:13	hercynium	snow++
22:14	masak	lol http://lolcatz.wordpress.com/2[…]isible-snowboard/
22:15	masak	the cat is in total control over its environment, with a focused look on its face.
22:15	sorear	over twice as long as the STD parser embedded in niecza_eval
22:15	* sorear	runs the profiler, but it probably won't finish until after I leave
22:16	hercynium	masak: I can't find it right now, but I have a version of that pic with a bowling ball in front of the cat
22:17	frettled	hercynium: how did you know (snow)? :D
22:17	masak	hercynium: I imagine that would work nicely, yes.
22:17	hercynium	frettled: jnthn> masak: Snow! I has more of it! \o/
22:18	frettled	oh!
22:18	frettled	(it's snowing here, that's why I asked)
22:24		oha left #perl6
22:24	masak	er. someone has to help me with "X years ago" today.
22:24	masak	how many years ago is 534 BC? discuss.
22:26	masak	a simple subtraction gives 2544 years ago, but there's no year 0, is there?
22:26		bitter16 joined #perl6
22:27		bitter16 left #perl6
22:28	sorear	534 BC is not a well-defined Instant
22:28	sorear	please be more specific.
22:29	masak	November 23, 534 BC.
22:29	masak	sometime in the early afternoon.
22:29	sorear	2543 ya I think
22:29	masak	good. that's my current guess as well.
22:30	jnthn	Was November invented yet? :)
22:30	masak	that's a very good question. I'm not sure how old the month name November really is.
22:31	colomon	are we assuming we don't care about the actual calender, differences which are less than a year are ignored? ;)
22:31	masak	it's not like it was waiting to be named after an emperor, like August or July.
22:31	masak	colomon: no.
22:32	masak	colomon: this is for the "on this day X years ago" part of today's November blog post.
22:32	colomon	wasn't it the ninth month in the old Roman calendar? (pre August / July)
22:32	arnsholt	masak: I vote for just doing the 2544 years ago
22:32	masak	arnsholt: I'm listening.
22:32	arnsholt	There is no comment field for people to bikeshed the thing in anyways ;)
22:32	masak	:)
22:32	colomon	arnsholt++ # no bikeshedding is good
22:32	jnthn	Just say, like, "A little while back"
22:32	arnsholt	And it's the method people usually use to find the year
22:32		_kaare left #perl6
22:33	masak	shucks, now I don't know what to do. :)
22:33	arnsholt	Also, you link to the Wikipedia pages, so anyone really interested can look it up there =)
22:33	masak	arnsholt: sounds like you're arguing for mathematical simplicity over factual correctness.
22:33	arnsholt	colomon: November is the ninth month in the Roman calendar, but it was (roughly) at the same place in the calendar as now
22:34	arnsholt	Because the year didn't start in January, but in March
22:35	frettled	masak: if you go for "there was a year zero", you're catering for astronomers. If not, you're catering for almost everyone else using some understanding of the Christian calendars.
22:36	arnsholt	Then insert all the funny business of leap years being inserted by priestly fiat and records being shoddy, julian/gregorian calendars, etc.
22:36	frettled	arnsholt: well, it was the ninth month until the calendar was so f..... that a certain Caeius Iulius Caesar (III) decided to rewrite the calendar system.
22:36	frettled	Post-Augustus, there were twelve.
22:37	arnsholt	Yeah, the Roman clendar is complicated
22:37	frettled	it was a mess, continuously, until that Caesar.
22:37	arnsholt	I know. I especially love how the insertion of leap years was a political matter
22:37	arnsholt	Excellent way to handle it =D
22:37	frettled	Essentially, when we talk about e.g. 54 B.C. in history, we talk about it according to our modern calendar (Gregorian).
22:37	gfldex	it's still a mess as earth refuses to have a stable orbit around the sun
22:38	frettled	And the Gregorian calendar does not acknowledge a year zero.
22:38	arnsholt	gfldex: That's true. But at least now the abberations in the calendar can't be on the order of days per decade =)
22:38	frettled	Essentially, this is because we're using ordinal numbers for years, not cardinal numbers.
22:39		yahooooo left #perl6
22:40		yahooooo joined #perl6
22:43	frettled	Bonus: when you ask GNU date what date+time it was 2010 years ago, it will say: Thu Nov 23 23:42:46 LMT 0000
22:43	frettled	To get the time in the BC/AC notation, you need to subtract one. That is, <whatever> LMT 0000 = <whatever> 1 BC.
22:45	masak	I know! I'll just link "no year 0" in my post to this discussion! :)
22:45	masak	hello, readers who followed that link o/
22:45	gfldex	another good reason to get off the planet into big space ships
22:45	frettled	masak: or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
22:45	diakopter	or small ones
22:45	frettled	gfldex: preferably not too fast ones, because otherwise, you FU the time too much :)
22:46		plobsing joined #perl6
22:46	Tene	masak: have you yet dealt with: cal 9 1752 ?
22:46	lichtkind	good night
22:46	masak	Tene: no, but I'm discounting that detail. eagh. :)
22:47	masak	Tene: the posts say "X years ago today". I'm just going to pretend that "today" means "on the date with the same month and day".
22:47	frettled	masak: oh, and if you want to go completely _bonkers_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J[…]r#Leap_year_error
22:48	masak	this happens every time we start discussing time. :P
22:48	frettled	that you go bonkers?
22:48	masak	no, that ample material for doing so is provided.
22:49	frettled	:D
22:49	gfldex	being bonkers is what gets you into #perl6
22:49	frettled	I seem to share a part of the blame for that.
22:49	Tene	masak: provided that that day actually exists in that year (and location/authority)
22:49	frettled	Quick, the SEP generator!
22:50	Tene	From what I hear, similar things happened in 1582 in rome and in 1917 in russia.
22:50	masak	Tene: look, it's Wikipedia that said "November 23, 534 BC". I'm just going to assume they meant something by that. :)
22:50	frettled	Tene: and at other dates in other places.
22:50	Tene	masak: Ah, so if I want to troll you today, I just need to edit wikipedia. That makes it easier. ;)
22:51	masak	Tene: :D
22:51	frettled	Tene++
22:58		pyrimidine_ joined #perl6
23:00	lue	ohayo o/
23:00	lue	.u tardis
23:00	phenny	lue: Sorry, no results for 'tardis'.
23:01		pyrimidine left #perl6
23:01		pyrimidine_ is now known as pyrimidine
23:03	Tene	masak: You may also be interested in the hebrew calendar: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michka[…]/22/10079237.aspx
23:03	masak	thanks. this channel, just as the Ravenclaw house, is very beneficial for people who like to learn.
23:03	diakopter	yesterday even
23:04	lue	masak: there is a year 0, the idiot monk who designed the Gregorian calendar forgot that though.
23:05	lue	Funny we happen to be discussing time today of all days... :)
23:05	masak	why, is today special?
23:05	lue	happy 47th anniversary of Doctor Who! \o/
23:06	masak	oh, right.
23:06	masak	lue: happy anniversary. :)
23:07	hercynium	lue: I didn't know it was an anniversary, but somehow now I feel my selection of "The Three Doctors" last night was strangely apropos
23:08	lue	Can't wait for 2013! [and the ability to watch DW on my computer :/]
23:08	hercynium	lue: I watched on netflix
23:08	lue	in any case, how serendipitous :)
23:09	lue	my solution to watching videos isn't availability, it's the computer itself (some days it's a miracle a graphical environment works decently)
23:09	hercynium	I kinda forgot how obnoxious the second doctor was (though amusing in small doses)
23:09	hercynium	ah
23:09		pyrimidine left #perl6
23:09	hercynium	I was watching on the Wii, then moved it to my phone when I was getting sleepy
23:11	lue	[ The new run of the series (2005–) started on the 42nd year of DW (a few months before 23 Nov.). Douglas Adams wrote for DW. Coincidence!? ]
23:15	lue	Anyway, are there any other confusions of Time that need answering?
23:16	masak	blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org[…]he-worlds-a-stage
23:17	dalek	tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ \| http://www.perlfoundation.org/[…]/index.cgi?perl_6
23:23	Tene	masak: you may want to explicitly state that you re-enabled the Text::Markup::Wiki::MediaWiki code path
23:23	masak	thanks. I will.
23:28		risou joined #perl6
23:39	lue	how do I get my blog on the aggregator? I feel I post semi-regularly.
23:42	masak	lue: which one? Planet Perl 6?
23:44		masak` joined #perl6
23:44	lue	yes. The one everyone talks about.
23:45		masak left #perl6
23:45		masak` is now known as masak
23:49	masak	seems [Coke] might be a planetsix admin, from what the IRC logs tell me.
23:51	lue	I'll ask him when he's around, then.
23:58		ch3ck left #perl6

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