Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-11-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Chillance left #perl6
00:10 masak ah, here's a workaround:
00:10 masak rakudo: sub foo($a, %h = {}) { bar($a, %h) }; sub bar($a, %h?) { say "alive!" }; foo(42)
00:10 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«alive!␤»
00:10 masak of course.
00:10 * masak adds that to the ticket
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00:39 masak blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org/b​log/november-22-2010-bring-em-on
00:40 colomon "not it's just" should maybe be "now it's just"?
00:41 masak thanks. fixing. colomon++
00:42 colomon masak++ # nice post, and actually, you know, keeping the Perl 6 flame alive.  ;)
00:42 masak thanks.
00:42 masak every time I come back to this kind of hands-dirty work, it's great fun.
00:42 colomon I know.  Wish we all had more time to get our hands-dirty.
00:43 colomon errr, hands dirty.
00:43 colomon afk
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00:47 masak decommute &
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00:52 sjohnson suicide &
00:52 sjohnson :)
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01:09 masak sjohnson: please don't joke about such things :-/
01:10 sjohnson sorry, just getting really darn cold up here in Canada!
01:10 * sjohnson bundles up
01:20 flussence according to other people around me, it's cold here too. I haven't noticed at all :/
01:35 sjohnson rakudo: say round(5.4)
01:35 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«5␤»
01:35 sjohnson no round in p5?
01:35 sjohnson rakudo: say round(5.5)
01:35 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«6␤»
01:35 masak buubot: eval int(5.4 + .5)
01:35 buubot masak: 5
01:35 masak sjohnson: that's probably what you'd do in Perl 5. or load a module.
01:35 sjohnson or sprintf
01:36 masak indeed.
01:36 sjohnson i'll do % with the f
01:36 sjohnson :-)
01:37 sjohnson wrote a script to calculate how much money i owe my brother.  perl is very useful!
01:40 sjohnson needless to say, i paid him off in many installments, and calculating it everytime got tedious
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01:44 colomon for some bizarre reason, it was 63F here today.
01:45 colomon Tomorrow it's supposed to be back to a more seasonal 42F
01:45 colomon jnthn: ping?
01:45 don_bitter16 left #perl6
01:45 masak colomon: jnthn is asleep. :)
01:46 colomon blast
01:46 * diakopter agrees
01:46 masak rakudo: sub f2c($f) { ($f - 32) * 5/9 }; say f2c 63
01:46 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«17.2222222222222␤»
01:46 masak rakudo: sub f2c($f) { ($f - 32) * 5/9 }; say f2c 42
01:46 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«5.55555555555556␤»
01:46 masak ah.
01:47 colomon yes, from "no jacket needed" weather straight to a bit above freezing.
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02:37 colomon Null PMC access in push_string().... hmmm
02:37 masak golfed example?
02:38 colomon it's in nqp-rx
02:38 masak oh.
02:38 colomon and it's happening somewhere in the middle of the stage 2 compile
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02:39 masak oh!
02:40 colomon though if you have a clue what might cause that, I'm all eyes
02:40 colomon errr, ears
02:40 masak no clue, sorry.
02:40 masak I have no uncanny intuition about nqp-rx failures :)
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03:05 Tene great weather in sfbay :)
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03:42 diakopter nqp: say("h"~~/h/)
03:42 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«h␤»
03:42 diakopter nqp: say("ih"~~/h/)
03:42 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«h␤»
03:44 diakopter nqpnet: my $a; say($a.defined)
03:44 p6eval nqpnet: OUTPUT«RakudoOutput.cs(136,35): warning CS0414: The private field `NQPOutput_1290483890.ConstantsTable' is assigned but its value is never used␤Compilation succeeded - 1 warning(s)␤0␤»
03:45 diakopter meh
03:45 diakopter nqpnet: my $a; say($a.defined)
03:45 p6eval nqpnet: OUTPUT«RakudoOutput.cs(136,35): warning CS0414: The private field `NQPOutput_1290483906.ConstantsTable' is assigned but its value is never used␤Compilation succeeded - 1 warning(s)␤0␤»
03:45 diakopter blergh
03:46 masak still fails :)
03:46 diakopter well, it did have some output
03:47 diakopter (I just noticed)
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04:16 diakopter masak: it must be ... 5am
04:16 diakopter ?
04:17 TimToady it's his last fling before he marries five amazons
04:17 masak :)
04:17 masak diakopter: aye. bit disconnected to the local sun time right now.
04:17 masak s/to/from/
04:18 * diakopter very confused by what TimToady said
04:19 diakopter I mean, I see "5am" -> "five am[azons]"
04:19 TimToady you are clueless?
04:19 masak diakopter: ooh. didn't spot that one.
04:19 masak TimToady: you're a tease :)
04:20 diakopter but I don't get the fling/marriage part
04:20 masak diakopter: where were you when I handed out clues?
04:21 diakopter in the conservatory with the rope
04:21 masak diakopter: hold on, I'll link ya.
04:21 diakopter oh wait
04:21 diakopter those clues
04:22 diakopter I've seen the first 2
04:22 masak there you go then.
04:22 masak I don't think there was more to what TimToady said than that.
04:22 diakopter ah
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04:23 diakopter so perhaps my pun interpretation was a backropun
04:24 masak regardless, it was a very pretty one.
04:24 masak but I suspect TimToady had the association forwards before you had it backwards. :P
04:24 diakopter we'll never know
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04:24 masak guess not.
04:24 TimToady I had the 5, but I didn't have the am, so you're half backropunished
04:25 masak a halfback!
04:25 diakopter how punifive
04:25 masak ...and we're done, I think.
04:25 masak thanks, everyone.
04:25 TimToady o/
04:26 * masak goes to work
04:26 * diakopter bows -o-
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05:15 andmott hello
05:15 scp1 hi
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05:26 sorear hi
05:26 sorear good * #perl6
05:27 sorear TimToady: what besides $*FILE<name> is there?
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05:34 lue ohayo o/
05:34 sorear Hi.
05:35 dalek niecza: 6ff137e | sorear++ | / (4 files):
05:35 dalek niecza: Implement LTM for :i STRING
05:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6ff137ebf8
05:46 sorear yay, /\S/ is working now
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05:57 TimToady sorear: nothing that I know of, yet, but one could imagine other sources of, er, source code
05:58 TimToady at the time, I was mostly interested in not storing a gazillion copies of the file name
05:59 scp1 masak, how do you deal with, say, 'make test' spitting out a mile of errors - do you close STDERR and redirect to a log, or just let it be?
05:59 masak scp1: what's the context here? Rakudo?
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06:05 sorear TimToady: oh!  you used a reference type to prevent copying?
06:05 scp1 masak, oh sorry - the tote project :)
06:06 masak ah! I suppose I just make sure my scrollback is long enough.
06:06 scp1 ah, okay
06:08 ingy I just built rakudo star on ubuntu and get this error: ./perl6: error while loading shared libraries: libparrot.so.2.9.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
06:09 ingy am i dumb?
06:09 masak hm. rakudo star and libparrot.so.2.9.1? odd combination.
06:09 ingy or dumber?
06:10 masak I'm not aware that Rakudo Star has been released this month. and that Parrot version number is the latest one.
06:10 ingy I just grabbed the latest star download tarball from github and followed the structions
06:10 ingy hmm
06:10 * masak tries that
06:10 ingy thanks
06:11 dalek 6model: 2bceca4 | diakopter++ | / (4 files):
06:11 dalek 6model: [dotnet] make regex Actions generate method not sub
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/2bceca45a5
06:11 dalek 6model: b68ad46 | diakopter++ | dotnet/ (2 files):
06:11 dalek 6model: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:jnthn/6model
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/b68ad46d11
06:11 dalek 6model: c319dc1 | diakopter++ | dotnet/compiler/DNST (2 files):
06:11 dalek 6model: [DotNetSyntaxTree] Added DNST::Return and DNST::Local, enabling same-routine local variables and returning from anywhere.
06:11 dalek 6model: Implemented their emitters in DotNetSyntaxTree2CSharp
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c319dc1141
06:11 dalek 6model: d3c1b8f | diakopter++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/P6capture.cs:
06:11 dalek 6model: [dotnet] made the native P6capture representation auto-vivify its storage
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/d3c1b8f9ec
06:11 dalek 6model: c6aa078 | diakopter++ | dotnet/runtime/Runtime/Ops/Metamodel.cs:
06:11 dalek 6model: [dotnet] fixed my logic bug; oops.
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c6aa078e05
06:11 dalek 6model: 91a2613 | diakopter++ | / (3 files):
06:11 dalek 6model: [PAST::Regex] added more regex compiler scaffolding - lots of things faked, but it "works"
06:11 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/91a2613762
06:11 masak ingy: oh wait, seems I'm wrong. that's the Parrot version for the latest Star release.
06:12 ingy masak: rakudo-star-2010.10
06:12 masak yes. that one.
06:12 ingy any ideas?
06:13 masak nope.
06:13 * sorear fixes 90 errors and sees how many more files pass
06:13 masak ingy: but I'm trying to build that tarball here.
06:14 lue .oO(something's wonky with my code...)
06:14 ingy I built and installed it fine
06:15 ingy -rwxr-xr-x 1 ingy ingy 8017442 2010-11-23 11:16 install/lib/libparrot.so.2.9.1*
06:15 ingy it's there
06:16 ingy perl6 just can't find it I guess
06:16 ingy is there an env var I can set?
06:19 sorear LD_LIBRARY_PATH
06:19 sorear .so files should in general always be installed to /lib, /usr/lib, or /usr/local/lib
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06:22 lue aha! does this line    if $/.keys[0] == "directive" {    dwim? [I just realized that from the looks of the output, it always matches this line]
06:22 sorear eq
06:22 sorear == is only for numbers
06:23 diakopter nqpnet: say("h"~~/h/)
06:23 p6eval nqpnet: OUTPUT«h␤»
06:24 diakopter hee. mostly faked-up. but largely there.
06:24 lue ah. Thank you sorear, it works now! \o/
06:24 diakopter the scaffolding, that is.
06:24 diakopter almost none of the actual regex features work yet
06:26 dalek niecza: 43b4a24 | sorear++ | docs/DIRECTIONS:
06:26 dalek niecza: niecza has basic :i now
06:26 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/43b4a24645
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06:35 ingy sorear, masak:
06:35 ingy ingy@ingy-eee:~/src/rakudo-star-2010.10$ LD_LIBRARY_PATH=`abs_path install/lib/` ./install/bin/perl6
06:35 ingy Could not load oplib `perl6_ops'
06:35 scp1 masak, right; prototype: https://github.com/trapd00r​/utils/blob/master/autotest . Now I need to find out a way to watch $dir and all important files therein - t/* and lib/**.pm
06:36 masak scp1++
06:36 ingy it seems odd that r* would not install properly
06:36 masak scp1: I'd do t**
06:36 masak er, t/**
06:37 ingy do we no longer support installing perl6 in /usr/local/bin?
06:37 scp1 Hmm, subdirs in t/ ? Havent encountered that
06:37 masak scp1: oh, it's not that uncommon.
06:38 dalek dalek-poller: 303ac6a | sorear++ | push.psgi:
06:38 dalek dalek-poller: Drop commit packets with >15 commits, with a warning to the offender
06:38 dalek dalek-poller: review: https://github.com/sorear/da​lek-poller/commit/303ac6a6cc
06:38 masak ingy: it works here, even without mucking with LD_LIBRARY_PATH.
06:39 masak ingy: though I can't rule out that my globally installed Parrot is helping me. I did have the same error you did before doing 'make install', though.
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06:43 ingy masak: where did you install to?
06:44 ingy I just installed to ./install
06:44 ingy because that's what the doc said
06:44 masak same here.
06:45 sorear masak: what should I put in my initial release message?
06:45 ingy both ./perl and ./install/bin/perl work?
06:45 ingy *perl6
06:46 masak sorear: what it is you're building, where you aim to take it, how to get things running, how to get involved. something like that.
06:46 Tene lue: order of .keys is not guaranteed
06:47 Tene iirc
06:47 lue "You turned into a cat! A SMALL cat! You violated Conservatrion of Energy![...]" curse you moritz_, I like this fanfic
06:47 masak Tene: oh! I completely missed that. :)
06:47 lue Tene: there's only ever one key, so that shouldn't be a problem :)
06:47 Tene lue: Yeah, I'm quite fond of it too.  I'm fond of everything Eliezer has produced, though.
06:48 masak sorear: are you planning on making time-based releases. if so, then you should probably describe it in the release announcement too.
06:48 masak Tene: he's written other things? o.O
06:48 Tene lue: if it doesn't match, it won't have that key
06:48 lue if I did have >1 key though, I'd expect some way of finding the right one when I don't know anything about the results yet.
06:49 lue Tene: It works now, I was just using == when it should've been  eq  .
06:49 masak lue: if any($/.keys) eq 'directive' { ... }
06:49 Tene masak: a few other pieces of fiction, and a large amount of blogging in preparation for writing a book about rationality and cognitive biases.
06:49 masak Tene: nice!
06:49 masak this requires further investigation.
06:49 lue masak: should I do it like that anyway, in case I need to remember it later?
06:49 Tene masak: http://yudkowsky.net/other/fiction/
06:50 masak lue: nah. just suggesting alternatives.
06:50 Tene masak: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Sequences
06:50 masak Tene: thanks x 2
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06:59 lue my my, a very geeky person must've written this fanfic :)
07:01 Tene masak: Oh, he also wrote http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5588986/​1/Trust_in_God_or_The_Riddle_of_Kyon under his name, instead of the LessWrong persona
07:01 masak EGOODSTUFFOVERFLOW
07:02 lue solution: another bukkit.
07:02 Tene Did you just call masak a walrus?
07:04 lue I hired the guy in that photo to steal the bukkit for this moment.
07:04 Tene http://luminous.elcenia.com/index.shtml is another fanfic by someone in the LessWrong community, possibly inspired by HPRM, also heavily discusses thought and cognitive biases, but less geeky.
07:04 lue [I has a TARDIS, remember?]
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07:12 lue "Trunks whose insides hold more than their outsides?" (some-wizard has been visiting Gallifrey!)
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07:13 Tene hehe
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07:16 lue I bet the trunk is signficantly worse than the ∞:1 capacity of a TARDIS though... </commentary> # couldn't help it :/
07:17 Tene lue: Yes; it clearly has a limit.
07:18 lue could you stuff Earth into the trunk?
07:19 Tene lue: The trunk has a very small limit; It's about the size of a small room.
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07:19 Tene iirc
07:19 zby left #perl6
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07:20 lue I think DW has ruined my sense of proportion. That sounds good for only a weekend holiday :)
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07:22 lue I overall like this fanfic so far. The author has given Harry a much more Artemis Fowl type personality. .oO(must...write....review......)
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07:25 sorear lue: it's impossible to fill an infinitely large space with air at a constant pressure, look up the bekenstein bound
07:27 sorear masak: isn't that spelled if $<directive>:exists ?
07:27 masak sorear: modulo feature availability, yes, probably.
07:28 sorear 59m 50s  85.58%
07:33 * sorear wonders whether mothly releases would be good
07:33 sorear What do poeple *do* with yapsi monthlies anyway?
07:35 moritz_ they read the release announcements, and chuckle :-)
07:36 moritz_ but people do install the rakudo monthlies
07:36 sorear part of me wants to just announce the *project*, then make people follow git
07:36 sorear std: { $^a }
07:36 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
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07:41 masak the August Yapsi release has had more downloads than the August Rakudo release.
07:42 masak of course, that's because of Rakudo Star... but still.
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07:43 sorear odd that niecza-std is warning on { $^a }
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08:03 dalek niecza: c67c2b0 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
08:03 dalek niecza: [v6] fix placeholder generation
08:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c67c2b062b
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08:11 sorear niecza: my %x; %x<used>++; say %x.dump
08:11 p6eval niecza 43b4a24: OUTPUT«{}␤»
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08:24 lue goodnight o/
08:24 sorear niecza: my $a ::= 1; $a++; say $a;
08:24 p6eval niecza 43b4a24: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Writing to readonly scalar␤  at  line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤  at  line 970 (SAFE G1088ANONC @ 5)␤  at  line 970 (SAFE module-SAFE @ 28)␤  at  line 970 (SAFE mainline @ 1)␤  at  line 0 (boot @ 1)␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤"mono" unexpectedly returned
08:24 p6eval ..exit v…
08:27 dalek niecza: e289709 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
08:27 dalek niecza: Fix optimized ++ not autovivifying
08:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e289709269
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08:33 sorear hrm, S02-lexical-conventions/unicode.t requires 'use graphemes' semantics
08:34 masak Rakudo doesn't have that either.
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08:37 sorear I worry that compiling STD for graphemes mode will push it well into "unusably slow" territory
08:37 dalek niecza: e8f039c | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
08:37 dalek niecza: [v6] fix anon enums
08:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e8f039c76c
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09:10 sorear std: my @a = 1; f(my @x = (1, 2, 3));
09:10 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'f' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 123m␤»
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09:39 Monty_P Hello all..
09:39 moritz_ hi Monty_P
09:39 sorear Hello
09:41 Monty_P perl6: say 'testing... :-|!'
09:41 p6eval pugs, rakudo : OUTPUT«testing... :-|!␤»
09:42 masak hi Monty_P
09:42 * moritz_ wonders if that nick stands for "Monty Perl" :-)
09:42 masak or 'Monty Pascal'...
09:43 Monty_P @moritz_: Monty lisP! ;)
09:43 moritz_ Monty_P: ah, good one
09:43 masak Monty Pascal...a variant of Pascal where all strings must be 255 bytes long or longer.
09:44 dalek niecza: 9da8467 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
09:44 dalek niecza: [v6] fix parsing of assignments in parameter lists
09:44 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9da8467598
09:45 sorear Is it just me, or are the people who say @somebody: disproportionately more likely to be sane?
09:48 masak sorear: haven't thought of it in that light.
09:49 masak sorear: I tend to associate the habit with newcomers, or die-hard twitterers.
09:49 Monty_P How is perl6 doing regarding GUI programming?
09:50 moritz_ Monty_P: you can access the p5 TK library through blizkost
09:50 moritz_ I don't know of any native ports
09:50 sorear I saw a blog post about a failed grant to wrap Tk once
09:51 sorear so I was compelled to do something
09:51 moritz_ I found that grant a bit weird
09:51 moritz_ somebody who has never interacted with the p6 community in some way
09:51 * sorear vaguely wants to do a WinForms or gtk# binding now
09:52 Monty_P moritz_: I see..
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09:53 moritz_ sorear: is there an easy way to access C# libs from niecza?
09:53 moritz_ I mean, without hacking on the compiler :-)
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09:56 sorear FSVO easy
09:56 sorear you need to use Q:CgOp{} blocks
09:56 sorear and some rather arcane instructions
09:57 sorear also there's no support for adding references, so you can only use standard C# libs
09:57 sorear but if "easy" = "without hacking the compiler proper", then yes :)
09:57 moritz_ :-)
09:58 mathw What's the spec like in Perl 6 for foreign imports?
09:59 sorear of course, I'd eventually like to just say use WinForms:from<CLS Windows.Forms>;
09:59 moritz_ the syntax is basically   use SomeModule:from<lang>;
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09:59 sorear CLS = Common Language Standard = the .NET interop spec
10:00 moritz_ the spec is not very rigorous at this point :-)
10:00 moritz_ it's one of the areas that need implementation exploration first
10:00 sorear blizkost was in part an exploration of that
10:00 sorear but i ran into a lot of walls on the Parrot side
10:01 sorear places where there is no standard way to do something, so I can't portably access foreign objects
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10:02 sorear vtables are just words.  VTABLE_iter implementations in Parrot are all-pairs incompatible
10:02 moritz_ it's a little sad how much work happens in parrot regarding language interop, considering that it's one of the key selling points
10:02 moritz_ otoh I'm also sad that there's not more work in dozens of other areas, so my critic isn't well placed either :-)
10:03 sorear frankly at this point I'm not convinced that general interop is possible
10:03 sorear the CLS allows any two languages to interop to the extent they can emulate C# APIs :)
10:05 sorear general interop -> interop as general as parrot wants to promise
10:05 mathw yes there are always some limitations
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10:05 mathw all the interesting languages on the JVM seem to screw around with the object model
10:06 mathw they can talk to Java objects no trouble, but Java might have some problems talking to theirs...
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10:12 masak mathw: it's hard to be forward-compatible in such a case.
10:12 masak mathw: maybe something like CLOS would pull it off.
10:13 masak then again, maybe not.
10:13 mathw yeah it is hard
10:13 mathw I suppose you'd have to built metaclass into the VM
10:13 mathw and allow libraries to provide their metaclasses
10:14 mathw and somehow hope that you got the design right so that this could then provide all the functionality required
10:14 mathw but the host languages might then not have the syntax for it
10:14 mathw so you'd still be screwed
10:14 dalek niecza: 28aad16 | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
10:14 dalek niecza: Do not crash for objects without Numeric methods
10:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/28aad167f1
10:14 dalek niecza: 8405b8e | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
10:14 dalek niecza: [v6] Add STD.clean_id
10:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8405b8e3e3
10:14 mathw total interop is only possible in the area where all involved agree on a basic set of things they can do
10:14 mathw hence CLS and its particular requirements
10:15 sorear blizkost allows you to marshal exactly two kinds of data between Parrot and Perl 5
10:15 sorear strings and closures
10:18 masak breakfast for champions.
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12:11 masak agentzh! \o/
12:15 masak rakudo: role A { method foo { ... }; method bar { say "HAI" } }; role B { method foo { say "OH" }; method bar { ... } }; class C does A does B {}; .foo && .bar given C.new
12:15 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'foo' collides and a resolution must be provided by the class␤»
12:15 masak that should work, right?
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12:19 moritz_ masak: yes, it should
12:20 * masak submits rakudobug
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12:27 agentzh masak! \o/
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12:36 masak PHP 5.4 gets roles -- but calls them traits, like Smalltalk does. http://simas.posterous.com/new-to-php-54-traits
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12:37 masak they have a special syntax for method resolution.
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12:38 moritz_ and they use 'use' for trait application
12:39 masak de gustibus non est disputandum :)
12:40 * moritz_ didn't dispute anything :-)
12:41 masak that's disputable. :)
12:41 * moritz_ contradicts, just because.
12:42 masak current score: confusion 1 -- sense 0
12:44 moritz_ then I won :-)
12:44 masak yes :/
12:45 * masak sleeps a bit
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12:47 moritz_ wow, the fastest way to iterate a string in perl 5 to reverse it, and then call chop repeatedly: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=873073
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12:57 takadonet morning all
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13:25 mdxi moritz_: that's really interesting
13:25 mdxi the most interesting bit, to me, is that using file IO semantics on memory is so slow
13:25 mdxi this leads me to believe there's a lot about file IO that i don't know
13:26 moritz_ mdxi: slow? it's faster than the operation that I'd usually use
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13:28 mdxi it's slower than 4 other ways to do it, though. 6X slower :)
13:28 mdxi (max)
13:28 mdxi no, 3.5X
13:28 mdxi i can't math
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13:28 moritz_ 3 other ways
13:28 moritz_ chop and reverseChop are basically the same
13:29 moritz_ excep that reverseChop traverses the string backwards
13:29 moritz_ *except
13:30 dlynes Has perl become more readable with v6, and possibly more structured?
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13:30 moritz_ yes
13:30 dlynes Ah...so it's not a write-only language, anymore? :)
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13:31 takadonet dlynes: not anymore
13:31 moritz_ not more than any other high level language you chose to (ab)use
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13:31 dlynes Ok, cool...thanks
13:31 dlynes And it's come out as a final release now, too?
13:31 tadzik dlynes: how is Perl 5 write-only for you?
13:32 moritz_ dlynes: no. "final" implies "we've stopped working on it"
13:32 daxim_ there isn't any final release for any language
13:32 moritz_ there's no production release either
13:32 dlynes tadzik, I just find it horribly unreadable with all the $@, $_, #@, $$, $$$, ...
13:32 tadzik IMHO someone that can't write readable Perl 5 code cannot write readble code anyway, in any language
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13:32 moritz_ just preview releases for those interesting in playing with things
13:33 tadzik dlynes: the dereferencing syntax is gone :)
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13:33 tadzik but $_ is still there, and I don't think that's wrong
13:33 moritz_ but only 3 special variables left
13:33 dlynes tadzik, so it's more similar to python, now?
13:33 tadzik hell no!
13:33 dlynes bash, then?
13:33 tadzik why?
13:33 daxim_ funny, I find C-syntax derivatives nearly unreadable because of the lack of sigils.  is it a variable? a type? a built-in/function?
13:33 tadzik what makes you think so?
13:34 moritz_ (well, 4, but one of them is only interesting when you hack on the regex engine, or so)
13:34 moritz_ dlynes: Perl 6 still uses sigils (though immutable), and {} for scoping
13:34 dlynes moritz_, perl 5 used {} for scoping too, didn't it?
13:35 tadzik dlynes: https://github.com/tadzik/ne​utro/blob/master/bin/neutro example code
13:35 moritz_ dlynes: that's why I wrote "still" :-)
13:35 dlynes ok...point taken
13:36 dlynes ah...ok....yeah...looks way more readable than perl 5
13:36 tadzik a plenty of things are now more consistent and sane (imho)
13:37 dlynes yeah...still looks like perl, but the code is more readable, and seems to have enforced parameters/prototypes now
13:37 dlynes Not to mention whatever a 'multi' is
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13:38 moritz_ just a sub, of which multiple can have the same name
13:39 dlynes Ah...so subroutine overloading
13:39 takadonet yes
13:39 moritz_ right; but it's really not the same thing as in C++
13:40 moritz_ in C++ the overloading is resolved by the declared type of the arguments (and at compile time)
13:40 daxim_ rakudo: sub crap { say "signatures not enforced?" }; crap;
13:40 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«signatures not enforced?␤»
13:40 dlynes That's fine...I'm used to C++, Java, Python, and SOM
13:40 moritz_ in Perl 6 they are resolved at run time, by the actual type
13:40 moritz_ daxim_: there are default signatures (which rakudo enforces just fine)
13:41 moritz_ rakudo: sub crap { say "foo" }; crap(1, 2)
13:41 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 0␤  in 'crap' at line 1:/tmp/fKISciucfG␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fKISciucfG␤»
13:41 dlynes moritz_, I'm guessing the intent is the same as C++ for the overloading...it's just that perl6 functions differently under the hood than C++, and that's why the discrepancy
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13:42 dlynes s/discrepancy/difference/
13:42 moritz_ it's also the principle of least suprise
13:42 takadonet rakudo: multi run(Str $in){ say "i'm a str";}; multi run(Int $in) { say "i'm a num"}; run(5);run("hello");
13:42 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«i'm a num␤i'm a str␤»
13:43 moritz_ consider classes A and B, B inherits from A
13:43 moritz_ if you have, in C++   A *var = new B;
13:43 moritz_ and then call foo(A), it will dispatch to a foo(*A) variant, even if foo(*B) exists
13:44 moritz_ in Perl 6 it would be the B variant that gets chosen
13:44 moritz_ which is less surprising, IMHO
13:49 tadzik moreover...
13:50 tadzik rakudo: multi foo($a where { $a > 5}) { "Over 5"}; multi foo($a where { $a > 7} ) { "Over 7" }; say foo(9)
13:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Ambiguous dispatch to multi 'foo'. Ambiguous candidates had signatures:␤:(Any $a where ({ ... }))␤:(Any $a where ({ ... }))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/cBOO_jF2wv␤»
13:50 tadzik oops
13:50 moritz_ rakudo: multi f(0) { 1 }; multi f(Int $x) { $x * f($x-1) }; say f 5
13:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«120␤»
13:50 tadzik rakudo: multi foo($a where { $a > 5}) { "Over 5"}; multi foo($a where { $a < 5 } ) { "Below 5" }; say foo(9)
13:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Over 5␤»
13:50 tadzik right
13:50 tadzik so it's not only types
13:51 * moritz_ wonders what exceptions from type checks do
13:51 moritz_ rakudo: sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:51 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/D2hYR6Jmem␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tm…
13:51 tadzik rakudo: say "before"; sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:51 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«before␤OH NOEZ␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/6kzhSKuRDm␤  in 'f' at lin…
13:52 tadzik rakudo: say "before"; sub f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; say "before-after";f 3
13:52 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«before␤before-after␤OH NOEZ␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/tS9NSpeYMv␤  …
13:52 tadzik makes sense
13:52 moritz_ rakudo: multi f($x where { die "OH NOEZ" }) { }; f 3
13:52 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<~~>' at line 454:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/hjZezZGShj␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tm…
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13:58 takadonet dlynes: any other questions?
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14:00 dlynes No, that was it....thanks
14:00 dlynes Was just curious if perl6 was not in beta anymore, and if it was more readable than perl 5
14:01 takadonet Well not in beta but not production either
14:01 dlynes well...actually....does perl6 have something like cpan as well?
14:01 takadonet we are slowly porting modules over
14:01 takadonet http://modules.perl6.org/
14:01 takadonet Not a full fledge cpan since we are not sure what we are going to do
14:01 dlynes ah...so perl6 is currently prerelease, status, then, or public wide beta?
14:01 takadonet Might make a cpan6 or attach ourselves to the current one
14:01 takadonet public wide beta
14:02 takadonet anyone can download it and hack away
14:02 dlynes ok, thanks
14:03 tadzik well, perl6 is a language actually. The 'public beta' thing, is the implementation
14:03 daxim_ dlynes, talk to your colleagues/user group about what you learned today
14:06 dlynes daxim_, yeah...i've got a friend that's been waiting for perl6 to come out...he ended up learning python just so he wouldn't have to learn perl5, because perl6 wasn't available at that time
14:07 tadzik I'd go for Ruby in such situation
14:07 tadzik but still, I ended up learning Perl 6 even though it's not "out" :)
14:08 dlynes yeah...he's not interested in ruby...it reminds him of java too much :)
14:10 tadzik well, I'm not interested in python... it reminds me of python too much :)
14:10 dlynes Yeah..for me, I don't have a choice
14:10 dlynes Python's the best platform for OPC
14:11 dlynes So python's my only language for automation control
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14:12 dlynes However, for system admin/monitoring scripts, I use a combination of perl 5, bash script, awk, sed, python, cut
14:13 tadzik you mean using `` in Perl all the time?
14:13 tadzik Watch out, or you'll end up as a PostgreSQL dev :>
14:14 moritz_ tadzik: in sysadmin scripts I do that too
14:14 tadzik well... but sed?
14:14 tadzik for sed -i probably
14:15 tadzik but right, sysadmin scripts follow their own rules
14:15 tadzik TIMTWITIWWC -- There is more than one way to "it works who cares" :)
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14:17 dlynes tadzik, piping stuff through sed -e, or cut -d':' -f25, ...
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14:18 * moritz_ is always annoyed that cut only accepts single characters as delimiters
14:18 moritz_ seriously, how hard can it be to allow splitting on arbitrary strings?
14:19 PerlJam different implementation priorities perhaps
14:19 tadzik dlynes: now piping stuff through sed -e in Perl is something I don't understand at all :)
14:19 tadzik moritz_: they probably use strtok() :)
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14:20 moritz_ PerlJam: that's exactly it. Implementation difficulty as priority, not user experience
14:20 PerlJam tadzik: if you already have the shell script that uses sed that you're converting to Perl, then, as an interim step, it may be easier to just leave the sed part alone.
14:20 tadzik probably
14:21 PerlJam tadzik: and maybe, once you've taken that step, it's not worth it to go "whole hog" in converting it to Perl
14:21 moritz_ tadzik: strtok works with string delimiters, not single chars
14:22 PerlJam moritz_: What's amazing (to me) is that cut hasn't been improved in the manner that you describe over the years.  I understand the first couple of versions only using single char delimiters because they were written decades ago and developed a little momentum to stay that way.  But after a few years, surely *someone* would have the same thought as you about improving it
14:23 PerlJam moritz_: but perhaps, by that time, there were other tools that competed in that niche (awk, perl, etc.) and it wasn't really important to update cut
14:23 moritz_ PerlJam: right
14:23 dlynes tadzik, i don't use sed with perl...I use it in bash scripts
14:23 moritz_ I'd be surprised if 'cut' were younger than 20 years
14:24 PerlJam moritz_: I've been using unix for > 20 years and cut was an old tool when I first started  (or so it seemed to me)
14:26 tadzik ah, I see
14:26 tadzik moritz_: oh. Then I don't get it at all
14:26 tadzik dlynes: I see
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14:32 colomon jnthn: ping?
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14:43 * MindosCheng is watching http://www.nuug.no/aktiviteter/2​0100914-little-tools-large-apps/
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14:44 takadonet MindosCheng: it's a good presentation
14:44 moritz_ indeed, I liked it very much
14:45 jnthn Wish I'd been there to see that one...
14:45 jnthn colomon: pong (but I'm a bit distracted by $dayjob...)
14:45 colomon current nqp-rx error is
14:45 colomon Null PMC access in push_string()
14:45 colomon current instr.: 'parrot;NQP;Compiler;' pc 100444 (gen/nqp-grammar.pir:0)
14:45 colomon called from Sub 'parrot;NQP;Compiler;main' pc 100450 (gen/nqp-grammar.pir:0)
14:46 colomon seems to me this is probably happening in the sequence
14:46 colomon $P0 = getattribute nqpproto, '@!cmdoptions'
14:46 colomon push $P0, 'parsetrace'
14:46 colomon (in NPQ::Compiler sub '') but I don't have the foggiest clue why.
14:47 moritz_ has @!cmdoptions ever been initialized?
14:48 moritz_ if not, it's Null, and you get a NPMCA
14:48 jnthn I'm guessing not...question is where it got initialized before...
14:48 jnthn wait...getattribute on a proto object?
14:49 jnthn That's either bad naming or wrong.
14:52 jnthn colomon: Oh, one important difference is that attribute accesses need to be fully qualified with a class name in 6model too
14:53 jnthn So getattribute obj, '@!foo' is probably not going to work.
14:53 jnthn Would need to be
14:53 colomon nqpproto = p6meta.'new_class'('NQP::Compiler', 'parent'=>'HLL::Compiler')
14:53 jnthn getattribute obj, type_object_for_class_where_attr_is_declared, '@!foo'
14:53 jnthn huh, it's trying to set an attribute on a proto-object then?!
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14:54 jnthn That's...not good. I wonder how we've been getting away with that.
14:54 colomon is how nqpproto is created.  previously the call was getattribute nqpproto, '@cmdoptions', and @cmdoptions was a Parrot attribute.
14:54 colomon I may have completely misunderstood things.  I only like 33% understand this code.
14:55 * colomon is suspicious that asking him to work on this was an attempt to increase the bus number on some funky code.  ;)
14:55 jnthn I didn't quite intend it to be as tricky as it's starting to turn out... :)
14:56 colomon Mind you, I'm enjoying puzzling over it.
14:57 jnthn :)
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14:58 colomon Are you actually looking at the code in question?  src/NQP/Compiler.pir?
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14:59 colomon I've changed @cmdoptions to @!cmdoptions (because it's now a NQP object instead of inheriting from the Parrot HLL::Compiler) but other than that it's the same, I believe.
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15:22 jnthn colomon: Yeah, and it's certainly wrong. It really does appear to be trying to set attributes in the proto object. :/
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15:22 jnthn colomon: oh, but it's also using P6object there rather than 6model too...
15:23 colomon is it possible they are somehow (not sure the proper p6 terms) class-wide attributes rather than per-object attributes?
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15:27 jnthn colomon: There's no such thing in Perl 6...
15:27 jnthn colomon: I think that's what was being done
15:27 jnthn colomon: But it was not really supported under P6object
15:27 jnthn So I think it accidentally worked rather than was correct.
15:28 jnthn 6model probably explicitly bans it 'cus it's just not meant to be possible.
15:28 jnthn (and probably breaks definedness checking)
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15:36 colomon So a patch here would require a bit of a rewrite, yes?
15:37 * colomon decides to commit what he has and try to figure out how to push his branch to github, just to have a backup.
15:37 PerlPilot colomon++  good idea
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15:39 PerlJam colomon: btw,  git push origin branch-name  # assuming your github remote repo is called "origin"
15:40 colomon PerlJam++ colomon-- # first attempt I literally typed in "branch-name" rather than using the actual branch name.
15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: 60d7e50 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: Break HLL::Compiler away from PCT::HLLCompiler.
15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/60d7e50439
15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: e18ba58 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/NQP/Compiler.pir:
15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: Try to fix code to use the new @!cmdoptions, but apparently the original code was broken and so the fix does nothing useful.
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15:40 dalek nqp-rx/nomnom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e18ba581c2
15:40 PerlJam heh
15:40 colomon oh, cool!
15:43 moritz_ colomon++ # nice branch name
15:43 colomon ;)
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15:54 MindosCheng I guess some operation in Perl6 can be very fast by special design, like "==>" and "|"
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15:55 PerlJam "special design"?
15:55 MindosCheng PerlJam: like using special hardware, like CUDA.
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15:58 MindosCheng PerlJam: And for pipeline, by sharing buffers, it works on some encoding/decoding system already.
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16:56 * sjn checked out latest rakudo from git
16:56 sjn <- getting lots of failing tests
16:57 colomon platform?
16:57 sjn ubuntu 10.04
16:57 sjn "Parse errors: No plan found in TAP output"
16:58 colomon what happens if you just execute perl6 by itself?
16:59 sjn right
16:59 sjn PackFile_unpack: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 9.1.
16:59 sjn what files should I delete?
16:59 moritz_ sjn: rm -rf parrot_install/
16:59 sjn (and why doesn't "make clean" take out those files? :-P)
16:59 moritz_ sjn: because they are installed files
17:00 colomon sjn: when was the last time you built rakudo?
17:00 sjn colomon: a while back, before I pulled latest last night
17:01 sjn maybe a month
17:01 moritz_ what I don't understand is why a new install doesn't override it with new files
17:01 * colomon is wondering if sjn still has svn parrot
17:01 sjn no, the build script catched that one
17:01 sjn (and yes, I had it
17:01 sjn )
17:01 envi left #perl6
17:01 sjn and then removed the parrot dir, and ran Configure.pl --gen-parrot
17:02 colomon ah
17:02 sjn just got a bit surprised that running with --gen-parrot didn't replace the previous install
17:05 moritz_ it does, unless the parrot version changes
17:06 sjn sounds like a bug :)
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17:44 frettled It's somewhat counter-intuitive, yes.
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17:53 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
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18:52 * colomon just came to his senses and realized asking Rakudo to parse a 250meg file was probably not a good idea.
18:52 colomon btw, #phasers in 8min?
18:53 jnthn 7 mins now ;)
18:53 mberends hi colomon, jnthn, yes :-)
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18:54 jnthn mberends! \o/
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19:01 pmichaud_ ENOFEATHER?
19:01 pmichaud oh, there it is.
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19:13 sorear 57m 21s  87.01%
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19:27 sorear 100 failures; 53x Check failed, 26x Parse failed, 18x Autoloading of STD::P5 NYI
19:28 sorear 3x Str.Numeric NYI
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19:34 TimToady I consider TrigTestSupport.pm to be malformed Perl 6, btw
19:35 TimToady but fixing it such that rakudo is happy with it is not yet possible, last I checked
19:35 TimToady (several months ago)
19:36 TimToady so I've just left them as STD failures for now
19:37 risou_ left #perl6
19:40 colomon TimToady: what, again, are your issues?
19:41 dalek star: 41aa60f | pmichaud++ | skel/docs/announce/2010.11:
19:41 dalek star: Add 2010.11 release announcement draft.
19:41 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/41aa60f725
19:41 TimToady iirc, relying on package export semantics rather than lexical
19:41 MayDaniel joined #perl6
19:42 * jnthn thought Rakudo did import into the lexical scope...
19:42 colomon TimToady: I think I could probably fix that now, though it might mean splitting it up into several different modules.
19:43 TimToady that might work
19:43 * colomon has gotten more useful experience in this area messing around with the ABC module.
19:43 TimToady it would be useful to be able to export subclasses though too
19:44 colomon sure, does anyone know the official status of exporting subclasses?
19:44 mssm joined #perl6
19:45 TimToady oh, probably "PhD dissertation fodder", like most of the rest of it... :)
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19:49 sorear "Exporting subclasses"?
19:49 jnthn TimToady: I don't see the issue with TrigTestSupport.
19:50 sorear The problem with TrigTestSupport is that the classes aren't exported
19:50 jnthn TimToady: AngleAndResult gets installed into GLOBAL:: no?
19:50 lue An old laptop that gets hot easily is very nice after shoveling snow :)
19:50 sorear Yes, but you can only access it as GLOBAL::AngleAndResult
19:50 diakopter hah
19:50 sorear There's no lexical alias
19:51 jnthn :/
19:51 * jnthn had it as "we statically know this name isn't lexical so go find it as a package"
19:52 lue happy 47th anniversary of Doctor Who \o/  [o and hai o/]
19:52 sorear as the kind of person who swears by use strict, I am very, very, very, very strongly opposed to that interpretation
19:52 jnthn er
19:53 jnthn I use strict too and I don't have a problem with this.
19:54 pmichaud there really isn't a "go find it as a package" any longer
19:54 pmichaud it's all lexical, iiuc
19:54 jnthn *everything* is lexical lookups?
19:54 pmichaud we massively cheat on that in rakudo
19:54 jnthn So how does
19:54 jnthn my class Foo { }
19:54 oha joined #perl6
19:54 jnthn class Foo { }
19:54 jnthn Really differ?
19:54 pmichaud is the latter really "our class Foo"?
19:54 jnthn Yes
19:55 pmichaud it differs by putting a symbol for "Foo" into the package namespace
19:55 jnthn Which you can only really get at by qualifying it with GLOBAL:: ?
19:55 pmichaud (as well as one in the lexical namespace)
19:55 sorear the former is accessible as MY::Foo and Foo; the latter is *also* accessible as OUR::Foo and GLOBAL::Foo
19:55 pmichaud just like other 'our' variables
19:55 sorear the interesting issue is class A { class B { } }
19:55 Tene lue: dr who starting up again in about a month
19:55 sorear B MUST be our
19:55 pmichaud when I have   "our $x"   we get entries for $x in both the package and in the lexpad
19:56 sorear because if it's my, then the A::B symbol won't be installed
19:56 jnthn OK
19:56 jnthn Makes me happy
19:56 jnthn I don't ahve to bother optimizing package access much now ;)
19:56 pmichaud but yes, nearly all symbol lookups are lexical
19:56 lue Tene: next season is supposed to be split in two halves, one half in spring the other in the fall. \o/
19:57 pmichaud even when there's a :: involved, the root part is a lexical lookup :-)
19:57 PerlJam sorear: so what's the relationship between  class A::B { }  and  class A { class B { ... } }
19:57 PerlJam "
19:57 PerlJam ?
19:57 jnthn pmichaud: nqp on .Net leans a LOT more in the lexical direction
19:57 pmichaud jnthn: good, because it needs to
19:57 jnthn pmichaud: The setting has lexicals in it only
19:57 pmichaud there really only are "lexicals" in perl 6
19:57 jnthn pmichaud: It can't have package scopes because, er, NQPStash is defined in there. :)
19:58 pmichaud packages are just alternate namespaces... but they're looked up lexically
19:58 jnthn pmichaud: OK. Feel free to review the way I have it and suggest changes
19:58 jnthn pmichaud: I suspect what I do in the .Net NQP can be our pattern for nqp-rx
19:58 pmichaud i.e., if I have   A::B::C,  we start with a lexical lookup of A
19:58 jnthn That's...awkward.
19:59 jnthn How do we differentiate between the stash and the type object in this case?
19:59 pmichaud type objects have to support a package API
19:59 pmichaud or the ::'s extract the stash from the type object
19:59 pmichaud (like an operator)
19:59 jnthn OK, so :: calls .WHO really
19:59 pmichaud yeah, that's a good way of thinking about it
20:00 jnthn I like my macros :)
20:01 jnthn Though I realized when I made .HOW and .WHAT be those in nqp-rx that...P6object is now rather impossible to work with. D'oh.
20:01 jnthn May need to fathmom some fallback or something
20:01 sorear PerlJam: I have no idea what class A::B is supposed to do
20:01 jnthn Otherwise the whole of PAST needs porting to the new meta-model to make any progress...
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20:02 sorear jnthn: I wound up using fat references in Niecza, i.e. A uses two slots A and A::
20:02 sorear and A::B means A::<B>
20:02 pmichaud porting whole may end up being not that difficult
20:02 sorear because, mostly, of stub packages
20:02 pmichaud A:: slot is interesting
20:02 sorear the existance of A::B doesn't imply anything about A
20:02 jnthn pmichaud: The other issue is that I'm not sure Parrot's multi dispatcher will know what to do with the new objects...
20:02 pmichaud that's a very useful start
20:02 lichtkind TimToady: are $() and item() interchangeable
20:03 pmichaud lichtkind: .item, probably
20:03 pmichaud @() ends up being .list,  so I'd expect $() to be .item
20:03 lambdabot Maybe you meant: . ? @ bf do ft id pl rc v wn
20:03 jnthn OH NO lambdabot!
20:03 pmichaud .oO( who let lambdabot back in here?!?)
20:03 jnthn @part
20:03 lambdabot Not enough privileges
20:04 pmichaud I'm certain that whatever lambdabot said is not what I meant.  :-)
20:04 jnthn screw you!
20:04 sorear @part
20:04 lambdabot Plugin `system' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list
20:04 sorear @part #perl6
20:04 lambdabot left #perl6
20:04 lue who is lambdabot? Should I get some popcorn for an epic backstory?
20:04 jnthn lol
20:04 pmichaud hmmm... compiling core.pm seems *much* slower than a month ago :-(
20:05 oha i would expect that class A { class B { } } declares 2 classes, while class A::B { } declares only one.
20:05 sorear oha: class A::B { } is closer to package A { class B { } }
20:05 icwiener left #perl6
20:06 pmichaud class A::B { }   declares a class B within package A (as obtained by lexical lookup of A).  If there is no A, then it's created within the current scope.
20:06 Tene lue: a bot that we have trouble keeping out without banning it, and who speaks when not spoken to.
20:06 sorear the fun issues are ones like "what if A already exists, but is imported"
20:06 pmichaud then we use that A
20:06 sorear lambdabot only speaks when spoken to.
20:06 pmichaud iiuc
20:06 sorear @ is her true name
20:07 sorear conveniently, Haskell never uses @ at the start of an expression
20:08 sorear pmichaud: without MONKEY_TYPING?
20:08 * jnthn tries to work out where MONKEY_TYPING comes into this...
20:08 pmichaud sorear: good question... but I think so.   Otherwise I don't know how things like     use Foo;  use Foo::Bar;  are to work
20:09 jnthn I thought that only affected augment/supercede?
20:10 pmichaud well, one could think of a class declaration as "augmenting" a package.  But I don't think it's really an augment in that way.
20:10 sorear jnthn: class Foo::Bar means augment package Foo { class Bar }
20:10 TimToady sorear: packages are not immutable
20:11 jnthn sorear: I don't see it that way.
20:12 pmichaud class Foo::Bar  means something like   Foo::<Bar> := class { ... }
20:12 TimToady and in any case, we'd want to make this an exception
20:12 pmichaud declaring Foo::  if need be
20:12 jnthn I figure MONKEY_TYPING mostly just means "you can't use augment and supercede"
20:13 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet
20:14 TimToady the package naming path is an "easement", in legal terms  :)
20:14 jnthn :)
20:15 PerlJam So ... what's the essential difference between packages and modules?  modules export and packages don't?
20:16 TimToady correct
20:17 TimToady and a class is just a module that also knows how to .^add_method and such
20:17 sorear adding "is export" to the classes and sticking "module TrigTestSupport;" on top makes the trig tests parse
20:17 TimToady in which?
20:18 TimToady in niecza?
20:18 TimToady as I recall, that used to break rakudo
20:22 sorear in STD
20:23 icwiener_ left #perl6
20:23 * sorear goes and tries to get niecza's setting to parse
20:24 pmichaud afk, travelling
20:30 takadonet how do you export variables from a module? Is it the same syntax as a sub? i.e sub dosomething() is export { .. } ?
20:30 TimToady std: my $x is export = 42;
20:30 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
20:31 takadonet rakudo: my $x is export = 42;
20:31 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any :rw($rw)!)␤:(Mu $type…
20:31 TimToady NYI, but you'll notice it parses
20:32 TimToady rakudo: module Foo { my $x is export = 42; }
20:32 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any :rw($rw)!)␤:(Mu $type…
20:32 TimToady I guess that doesn't help.
20:33 takadonet just have to do the full path
20:33 jnthn Just umimplemented trait handler, looks like.
20:33 TimToady takadonet: there isn't a full path, if it's a "my"
20:34 TimToady jnthn: so potentially a LHF?
20:35 jnthn TimToady: In theory. :)
20:35 jnthn I mean, the code is there for routines, and this should be easier since it doesn't have to worry about merging multis being explorted.
20:35 jnthn er, exported :)
20:36 jnthn .oO( explorted would be such a cool word if it existed...)
20:36 TimToady sounds like something from Calvin and Hobbes
20:36 takadonet TimToady: i will using 'our'
20:36 moritz_ (Calvin and Hobbes)++
20:36 takadonet rakudo: module Foo { our $x =42; } say $Foo::x;
20:36 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "module Foo"␤»
20:36 takadonet ..
20:37 takadonet rakudo: module Foo { our $x =42; }; say $Foo::x;
20:37 moritz_ takadonet: ; after  }
20:37 PerlJam you're missing a ;
20:37 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«42␤»
20:37 takadonet moritz_: always forget it
20:37 PerlJam (though that error isn't the nicest)
20:37 takadonet anyway that what I have being doing so far so will continue for the other modules
20:38 TimToady std: module Foo { our $x =42; } say $Foo::x;
20:38 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/kZxeS9H2Cq line 1:␤------> [32mmodule Foo { our $x =42; }[33m⏏[31m say $Foo::x;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    statement
20:38 p6eval ..modifier loop␤Pa…
20:41 * jnthn wonders if that error isn't LHF to add to Rakudo too
20:41 PerlJam jnthn: I was wondering exactly the same thing
20:42 oha LHF?
20:42 moritz_ low-hanging fruit
20:42 arnsholt Low Hanging Fruit. Easy targets to fix
20:42 oha nice, ty
20:43 arnsholt Often used as the gateway drug to catch new contributors =)
20:44 kjeldahl left #perl6
20:44 TimToady after which you will have knowledge of Good and Evil...
20:44 jnthn Improving Rakudo: good. Breaking Rakudo: Evil.
20:45 oha jnthn, ... and why you capitalized Evil? :)
20:46 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_tablets
20:46 TimToady that's not it; he forgot to capitalize Good
20:46 sorear std: sub ($) { }
20:46 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
20:47 tylercurtis left #perl6
20:47 sorear std: sub ($*) {}
20:47 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse signature at /tmp/HsMtWbhBEf line 1:␤------> [32msub [33m⏏[31m($*) {}[0m␤Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/HsMtWbhBEf line 1:␤------> [32msub ($[33m⏏[31m*) {}[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      constraint␤     param_sep␤
20:47 p6eval ..    parameter␤      t…
20:48 florz left #perl6
20:48 lue afk
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20:50 TimToady std: sub (*$) { }
20:50 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
20:51 timbunce left #perl6
20:51 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_cookbook_tablet
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21:03 lichtkind TimToady: would you please approve http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index​.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet#contextualizers
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21:07 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_cookbook_tablet
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21:11 cosimo what do I use to throw an exception? tried skimming through S04, but didn't get it
21:11 cosimo die maybe?
21:12 moritz_ die
21:13 PerlJam cosimo: you could have jumped right to the section on exception and read it rather than skimming  :)
21:14 ab5tract left #perl6
21:15 arnsholt Hmm. I think Rakduo is supposed to panic with "Malformed package declaration" on the "module {} $code" example, but for some reason it doesn't
21:16 jnthn std: module {} $code
21:16 cosimo PerlJam: I read it... :-|
21:16 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/tL15rSVLP4 line 1:␤------> [32mmodule {}[33m⏏[31m $code[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    statement modifier loop␤Parse
21:16 p6eval ..failed␤FAILED 00:01 …
21:16 espadrine` joined #perl6
21:16 jnthn rakudo: module {} $code
21:16 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "module {} "␤»
21:17 arnsholt (Lines 865, 866 of Perl6/Grammar.pm, if you wondered)
21:18 espadrine` left #perl6
21:18 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
21:19 jnthn arnsholt: I think that it parses a package just fine, then expects not to find a term next, and only then hits the problem
21:19 fhelmberger left #perl6
21:19 arnsholt Yah
21:19 PerlJam arnsholt: It's probably somewhere down in the parsing of blockoid where it recognizes that there's a problem.
21:20 arnsholt My suspect is ENDSTMT
21:20 arnsholt The full match of that is quantified with ?, so it will always match
21:21 pyrimidine left #perl6
21:21 * arnsholt tries something
21:21 pyrimidine joined #perl6
21:22 arnsholt Yeah. Not that
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_regex_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6​/index.cgi?perl_6_subroutine_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/p​erl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_block_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_tablets
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/in​dex.cgi?perl_6_language_design_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_history_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_intro_tablet
21:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
21:24 dalek mu: abe2be5 | (Cosimo Streppone)++ | docs/feather/syn_index.html:
21:24 dalek mu: Clarify where the mu repository is for noobs like me
21:24 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/abe2be51cb
21:25 lichtkind sorry for spam i had to change the index
21:25 tadzik lichtkind++ # leaking karma
21:26 lichtkind tadzik: what you mean by that?
21:26 tadzik lichtkind: you aren't getting your karma :)
21:27 tadzik karma lichtkind
21:27 aloha lichtkind has karma of 4.
21:27 tadzik karma Herbert Breunung
21:27 aloha Herbert Breunung has karma of 55.
21:27 tadzik see? :)
21:27 lichtkind so all my karmo goes to my alter ego
21:27 lichtkind that i call ego boosting
21:28 lichtkind karma moritz_
21:28 aloha moritz_ has karma of 85.
21:28 PerlJam Doesn't dalek have some sort of aliasing ability?
21:28 lichtkind karma moritz
21:28 aloha moritz has karma of 167.
21:29 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
21:29 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet
21:29 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/pe​rl6/index.cgi?perl_6_oop_tablet
21:29 moritz_ karma (Herbert Breunung)
21:29 aloha (Herbert Breunung) has karma of 0.
21:30 moritz_ karma Herbert Breunung
21:30 aloha Herbert Breunung has karma of 58.
21:30 moritz_ aloha: karma phenny: tell aloha karma phenny
21:30 aloha moritz_: phenny: tell aloha karma phenny has karma of 0.
21:31 oha moritz_, very close :)
21:31 cosimo karma kameleon
21:31 aloha kameleon has karma of 0.
21:32 cosimo after this one, I can say goodnight :)
21:32 * moritz_ wonders when he'll reach bot recursion
21:32 moritz_ good night cosimo
21:32 * oha waves cosimo
21:33 tadzik ~~
21:33 tadzik sleepytime for me too
21:33 lichtkind tadzik: good night
21:34 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_delta_tablet
21:34 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_links_tablet
21:34 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_cookbook_tablet
21:34 cosimo perl6 is messing up my programming life
21:35 cosimo I used to be happy and my programming days were fun
21:35 moritz_ and now it spoilt you?
21:35 moritz_ because you can see how programming should be?
21:36 cosimo then during nighttime I'm sucked into the alternative world of perl6
21:36 cosimo feels like The Matrix :-)
21:37 cosimo moritz_: yeah
21:38 cosimo last week I started this small project to port facter (ruby) to perl6
21:38 cosimo it's been a fantastic learning experience
21:39 cosimo and it's almost done too
21:39 arnsholt Right. I've been able to improve the error message a bit at least
21:39 moritz_ Mr. Anderson has a secret live!
21:39 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?best_of_perl_6_tablet
21:40 cosimo ruby is cool but lack of sigils sucks, seriously
21:41 cosimo 'night, everyone
21:42 Tene ruby's scoping is rather broken. :(
21:43 lichtkind Tene: why?
21:44 Chillance joined #perl6
21:45 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/​perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_tablets
21:45 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_intro_tablet
21:45 Tene lichtkind: I don't actually remember; I just remembering being very frustrated at needing to implement it the wrong, broken way in my ruby compiler.
21:46 Tene although the lack of declarations was also frustrating.
21:47 Tene I think i may also have scoping gripes mixed up between python and ruby, so I don't want to give counterfactual details.
21:50 arnsholt I know Python at least does that. Blocks don't create new lexical scopes
21:50 slavik1 left #perl6
21:50 arnsholt So if you use a variable only inside a loop or a conditional, it's still available after it
21:51 slavik joined #perl6
21:51 masak joined #perl6
21:51 masak ahoy!
21:51 arnsholt Yarr, masak!
21:52 oha arnsholt, in p5 there are cases where a variabile isn't destroyed, but it's no longer reachable. what do you exactly mean with available?
21:54 arnsholt oha: Those are closures. In Python this works (but in Perl syntax, because I don't remember Python's exact syntax)
21:54 sjohnson hi dudes
21:54 arnsholt if(1) { $x = 6; } say $x; # Will print out 6
21:54 arnsholt Even if $x was never used before in the program
21:56 oha that's work in perl (unless use strict)
21:56 oha p5 i mean
21:56 masak sjohnson: salut
21:57 arnsholt oha: Huh, didn't know that =)
21:57 oha perl -e 'if(gmtime) { $x=3; } print $x, "\n"'
21:57 arnsholt But you can't turn that off in Python (and not in Ruby either, I think)
21:57 oha just tried :)
21:58 arnsholt Me too =)
22:02 molaf joined #perl6
22:04 jnthn masak!
22:05 masak jnthn! \o/
22:05 jnthn masak: Snow! I has more of it! \o/
22:05 pochi left #perl6
22:05 masak jnthn: I'm doing bets with myself to see how long you'll think snow is funny. :P
22:05 pochi joined #perl6
22:05 Tene There's no snow where I live now.  I expect to miss it.
22:06 jnthn Like "rofl", snow has an o in it and is four chars long.
22:07 Tene http://www.google.com/images?q=snow+lolcat
22:07 dalek niecza: b2fa2f9 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
22:07 dalek niecza: [v6] Support Texas-quoted categoricals
22:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b2fa2f94bc
22:07 dalek niecza: e8a2b1c | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
22:07 dalek niecza: [v6] fix $ -> $Any()
22:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e8a2b1cf4f
22:08 sorear now it can parse the Niecza setting without complaining
22:08 jnthn Tene: Bizzare image search results are bizzare.
22:08 sorear time to start rewriting the compiler in perl 6!
22:08 Tene Mmm, rewrites.
22:08 colomon \o/
22:10 masak sorear++
22:11 sorear odd, it takes over a minute to parse
22:13 hercynium snow++
22:14 masak *lol* http://lolcatz.wordpress.com/2​007/06/25/invisible-snowboard/
22:15 masak the cat is in total control over its environment, with a focused look on its face.
22:15 sorear over twice as long as the STD parser embedded in niecza_eval
22:15 * sorear runs the profiler, but it probably won't finish until after I leave
22:16 hercynium masak: I can't find it right now, but I have a version of that pic with a bowling ball in front of the cat
22:17 frettled hercynium: how did you know (snow)? :D
22:17 masak hercynium: I imagine that would work nicely, yes.
22:17 hercynium frettled: jnthn> masak: Snow! I has more of it! \o/
22:18 frettled oh!
22:18 frettled (it's snowing here, that's why I asked)
22:24 oha left #perl6
22:24 masak er. someone has to help me with "X years ago" today.
22:24 masak how many years ago is 534 BC? discuss.
22:26 masak a simple subtraction gives 2544 years ago, but there's no year 0, is there?
22:26 bitter16 joined #perl6
22:27 bitter16 left #perl6
22:28 sorear 534 BC is not a well-defined Instant
22:28 sorear please be more specific.
22:29 masak November 23, 534 BC.
22:29 masak sometime in the early afternoon.
22:29 sorear 2543 ya I think
22:29 masak good. that's my current guess as well.
22:30 jnthn Was November invented yet? :)
22:30 masak that's a very good question. I'm not sure how old the month name November really is.
22:31 colomon are we assuming we don't care about the actual calender, differences which are less than a year are ignored?  ;)
22:31 masak it's not like it was waiting to be named after an emperor, like August or July.
22:31 masak colomon: no.
22:32 masak colomon: this is for the "on this day X years ago" part of today's November blog post.
22:32 colomon wasn't it the ninth month in the old Roman calendar? (pre August / July)
22:32 arnsholt masak: I vote for just doing the 2544 years ago
22:32 masak arnsholt: I'm listening.
22:32 arnsholt There is no comment field for people to bikeshed the thing in anyways ;)
22:32 masak :)
22:32 colomon arnsholt++ # no bikeshedding is good
22:32 jnthn Just say, like, "A little while back"
22:32 arnsholt And it's the method people usually use to find the year
22:32 _kaare left #perl6
22:33 masak shucks, now I don't know what to do. :)
22:33 arnsholt Also, you link to the Wikipedia pages, so anyone really interested can look it up there =)
22:33 masak arnsholt: sounds like you're arguing for mathematical simplicity over factual correctness.
22:33 arnsholt colomon: November is the ninth month in the Roman calendar, but it was (roughly) at the same place in the calendar as now
22:34 arnsholt Because the year didn't start in January, but in March
22:35 frettled masak: if you go for "there was a year zero", you're catering for astronomers.  If not, you're catering for almost everyone else using some understanding of the Christian calendars.
22:36 arnsholt Then insert all the funny business of leap years being inserted by priestly fiat and records being shoddy, julian/gregorian calendars, etc.
22:36 frettled arnsholt: well, it was the ninth month until the calendar was so f..... that a certain Caeius Iulius Caesar (III) decided to rewrite the calendar system.
22:36 frettled Post-Augustus, there were twelve.
22:37 arnsholt Yeah, the Roman clendar is complicated
22:37 frettled it was a mess, continuously, until that Caesar.
22:37 arnsholt I know. I especially love how the insertion of leap years was a political matter
22:37 arnsholt Excellent way to handle it =D
22:37 frettled Essentially, when we talk about e.g. 54 B.C. in history, we talk about it according to our modern calendar (Gregorian).
22:37 gfldex it's still a mess as earth refuses to have a stable orbit around the sun
22:38 frettled And the Gregorian calendar does not acknowledge a year zero.
22:38 arnsholt gfldex: That's true. But at least now the abberations in the calendar can't be on the order of days per decade =)
22:38 frettled Essentially, this is because we're using ordinal numbers for years, not cardinal numbers.
22:39 yahooooo left #perl6
22:40 yahooooo joined #perl6
22:43 frettled Bonus: when you ask GNU date what date+time it was 2010 years ago, it will say: Thu Nov 23 23:42:46 LMT 0000
22:43 frettled To get the time in the BC/AC notation, you need to subtract one.  That is, <whatever> LMT 0000 = <whatever> 1 BC.
22:45 masak I know! I'll just link "no year 0" in my post to this discussion! :)
22:45 masak hello, readers who followed that link o/
22:45 gfldex another good reason to get off the planet into big space ships
22:45 frettled masak: or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601
22:45 diakopter or small ones
22:45 frettled gfldex: preferably not too fast ones, because otherwise, you FU the time too much :)
22:46 plobsing joined #perl6
22:46 Tene masak: have you yet dealt with: cal 9 1752 ?
22:46 lichtkind good night
22:46 masak Tene: no, but I'm discounting that detail. eagh. :)
22:47 masak Tene: the posts say "X years ago today". I'm just going to pretend that "today" means "on the date with the same month and day".
22:47 frettled masak: oh, and if you want to go completely _bonkers_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J​ulian_calendar#Leap_year_error
22:48 masak this happens every time we start discussing time. :P
22:48 frettled that you go bonkers?
22:48 masak no, that ample material for doing so is provided.
22:49 frettled :D
22:49 gfldex being bonkers is what gets you into #perl6
22:49 frettled I seem to share a part of the blame for that.
22:49 Tene masak: provided that that day actually exists in that year (and location/authority)
22:49 frettled Quick, the SEP generator!
22:50 Tene From what I hear, similar things happened in 1582 in rome and in 1917 in russia.
22:50 masak Tene: look, it's Wikipedia that said "November 23, 534 BC". I'm just going to assume they meant something by that. :)
22:50 frettled Tene: and at other dates in other places.
22:50 Tene masak: Ah, so if I want to troll you today, I just need to edit wikipedia.  That makes it easier.  ;)
22:51 masak Tene: :D
22:51 frettled Tene++
22:58 pyrimidine_ joined #perl6
23:00 lue ohayo o/
23:00 lue .u tardis
23:00 phenny lue: Sorry, no results for 'tardis'.
23:01 pyrimidine left #perl6
23:01 pyrimidine_ is now known as pyrimidine
23:03 Tene masak: You may also be interested in the hebrew calendar: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/michkap/​archive/2010/10/22/10079237.aspx
23:03 masak thanks. this channel, just as the Ravenclaw house, is very beneficial for people who like to learn.
23:03 diakopter yesterday even
23:04 lue masak: there is a year 0, the idiot monk who designed the Gregorian calendar forgot that though.
23:05 lue Funny we happen to be discussing time today of all days... :)
23:05 masak why, is today special?
23:05 lue happy 47th anniversary of Doctor Who! \o/
23:06 masak oh, right.
23:06 masak lue: happy anniversary. :)
23:07 hercynium lue: I didn't know it was an anniversary, but somehow now I feel my selection of "The Three Doctors" last night was strangely apropos
23:08 lue Can't wait for 2013! [and the ability to watch DW on my computer :/]
23:08 hercynium lue: I watched on netflix
23:08 lue in any case, how serendipitous :)
23:09 lue my solution to watching videos isn't availability, it's the computer itself (some days it's a miracle a graphical environment works decently)
23:09 hercynium I kinda forgot how obnoxious the second doctor was (though amusing in small doses)
23:09 hercynium ah
23:09 pyrimidine left #perl6
23:09 hercynium I was watching on the Wii, then moved it to my phone when I was getting sleepy
23:11 lue [ The new run of the series (2005–) started on the 42nd year of DW (a few months before 23 Nov.). Douglas Adams wrote for DW. Coincidence!? ]
23:15 lue Anyway, are there any other confusions of Time that need answering?
23:16 masak blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/no​vember-23-2010-all-the-worlds-a-stage
23:17 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.​org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6
23:23 Tene masak: you may want to explicitly state that you re-enabled the Text::Markup::Wiki::MediaWiki code path
23:23 masak thanks. I will.
23:28 risou joined #perl6
23:39 lue how do I get my blog on the aggregator? I feel I post semi-regularly.
23:42 masak lue: which one? Planet Perl 6?
23:44 masak` joined #perl6
23:44 lue yes. The one everyone talks about.
23:45 masak left #perl6
23:45 masak` is now known as masak
23:49 masak seems [Coke] might be a planetsix admin, from what the IRC logs tell me.
23:51 lue I'll ask him when he's around, then.
23:58 ch3ck left #perl6

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