Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:24 jnthn good idea... &
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01:09 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
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01:15 TimToady shortcircuit: the tsort would be more idiomatic P6, but we were working around some rakudo restrictions at the time
01:15 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
01:15 TimToady some of which still exists, such as the absense of %hash{@keys} :pairs :delete
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01:19 TimToady it does appear we can get rid of the [] around [< foo bar>] now
01:20 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:20 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
01:23 dalek 6model: c6db91a | diakopter++ | / (4 files):
01:23 dalek 6model: [dotnet] more regex progress.
01:23 dalek 6model: Discovered & fixed a bug with result of short-circuiting-or (infix:<||>)
01:23 dalek 6model: Added tests to 12-logical.t for the above.
01:23 dalek 6model: Add lots of debugging output to the regex engine.  temporary.  breaks the smartmatch test.
01:23 dalek 6model: Add a Stringy method to knowhow NQPArray
01:23 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/c6db91a2d1
01:25 sjohnson perl-friend
01:26 sjohnson hmm, anyone know if p6's s/pig/cow/<case insensitive flag> switch will be "back-ported" to  p5?
01:27 TimToady the person who does it will know it first
01:30 sjohnson oops, i meant to ask, if anyone knows if it has already been done
01:32 sjohnson :3
01:34 flussence samecase?
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01:36 sjohnson flussence: i dont know, is that the solution in p5?
01:37 flussence I'm guessing that's the p6 name of it...
01:37 flussence with the direction p5's going in, it'll probably get backported sooner or later
01:38 sjohnson i hope!
01:38 sjohnson in case you are curious, i am currently doing this.  perhaps my solution is a bit juvenile:
01:38 sjohnson http://www.pastie.org/1337121
01:42 sjohnson there was a time where i had a string set to 'i' and did:  s/moo/oink/$flag;  but it quit working.. perhaps a newer version didn't like my cludgey idea.
01:45 flussence it might work as /(?$flag)/
01:45 flussence (perldoc perlre, line 415ish)
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02:04 sjohnson flussence: will do thanks
02:09 Frank_ Just curious -- I thought this might be a good time for me to check out Perl 6. Most of the docs for newcomers seems to suggest using Rakudo. Rakudo.org seems to have been down for several days now, and I haven't been able to find any announcements anywhere.
02:10 ash_ if you just want to try some things, you can do:
02:10 ash_ rakudo: say 1;
02:10 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
02:10 ash_ or http://try.rakudo.org/
02:11 ash_ or checkout http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo or http://github.com/rakudo/star
02:11 ash_ i am sure someone's working on the rakudo.org site being down, which kinda stinks :-(
02:12 ash_ http://planetsix.perl.org/ has a lot of blog posts about perl6
02:12 Frank_ Ah, thanks, ash_, that should get me going.
02:12 ash_ http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6 is good if you know perl5
02:13 Frank_ It just seemed weird that almost no one seemed to notice the site was down, or at least didn't think it worth mentioning.
02:13 ash_ someone mentioned it being down earlier
02:18 ash_ someones donating a vm slice for rakudo, so, it might be something wrong on their end? I am not sure, i don't manage that site
02:18 Frank_ the post by masak was the only one I could find, and that had more of a "please help me" tone than informative. I'm hoping this just means that someone is too busy fixing the problem to post an update.
02:20 ash_ perl6: say [+] 1..4
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02:20 p6eval pugs, rakudo : OUTPUT«10␤»
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05:28 xinming http://rakudo.org/ seems down.
05:31 plobsing It's not just you! http://rakudo.org looks down from here.
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06:09 sorear good * #perl6
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06:23 diakopter hi
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06:33 excelsio1 so how's that perl6 coming?
06:35 tylercurtis niecza: say "I'm pretty good, excelsio1."
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06:35 p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«I'm pretty good, excelsio1.␤»
06:36 sorear maybe I should drop my highlight on niecza.
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06:41 dukeleto is rakudo.org run on OSUOSL servers?
06:42 dukeleto nope.
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07:25 sorear niecza: sub foo(*%h) { my @x = %h; say +@x }; foo(a => 3, b => 4);
07:25 p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:25 sorear :/
07:26 sorear niecza: sub foo(*@x) { say +@x }; foo(1,2,3,4);
07:26 p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«4␤»
07:26 sorear niecza: sub foo(*@x) { my @y = @x; say +@y }; foo(1,2,3,4);
07:26 p6eval niecza 762b837: OUTPUT«4␤»
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07:48 moritz_ good morning
07:49 moritz_ tadzik: what's up with the advent calendar? are you going to start today?
07:54 cotto Do we get another one of those?
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08:00 redicaps Hi perl6
08:00 redicaps Do we have a advent calendar this year?
08:00 moritz_ cotto: yes, we have some planning for a perl6advent calendar this year
08:01 moritz_ we just need tadzik to publish the first entry
08:02 cotto moritz_, I'll look forward to it.  I loved it last year.
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08:10 tadzik moritz_: yeah, I'm starting today M
08:10 tadzik * PM
08:11 tadzik still no internets at home :(
08:11 tadzik while waiting, could some roofread/criticise my entry once again?
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08:33 moritz_ where? in the mu repo? or as a wordpress draft?
08:34 mathw ooh advent :)
08:36 dalek mu: 9f6b534 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/reaching-the-stars.pod:
08:36 dalek mu: [p6advent] some tiny text improvements
08:36 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/9f6b534024
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08:56 dalek niecza: fca89b3 | sorear++ | lib/JSYNC.cs:
08:56 dalek niecza: [jsync] Support saving simple subclasses of Hash
08:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fca89b3fce
08:56 dalek niecza: a430103 | sorear++ | v6/ (2 files):
08:56 dalek niecza: [v6] NAME and Stash is-a, not has-a, Hash
08:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a430103599
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10:42 sorear moritz_: your patience amazes me
10:47 moritz_ thanks :-)
10:48 * sorear out
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11:16 masak oh hai, #perl6!
11:16 moritz_ oh hai masak
11:17 masak it's December! oh joy!
11:17 moritz_ aye
11:18 moritz_ and the advent calendars grow like weed :-)
11:18 masak 'like weeds' :)
11:22 colomon yes, "like weed" is a very different thing altogether.  :)
11:23 moritz_ :-)
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11:41 masak twitterer is disappointed. http://twitter.com/fsfiii/status/9797081313054720
11:41 masak frankly, I wouldn't mind having this feature either.
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12:10 flussence just fixed a bug someone reported on try.rakudo, how often does the live site get updated?
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12:42 moritz_ I don't think it's automatically updated
12:42 flussence hmm
12:42 flussence well I've got a few more things to put in anyway...
12:43 wallberg hi all! what's up with http://rakudo.org ?
12:44 moritz_ it's down
12:45 wallberg :-(
12:47 flussence ok, I've stopped poking around (for now :)
12:54 takadonet morning all
12:55 takadonet who is in charge of rakudo.org?
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12:57 moritz_ takadonet: alester is
13:00 * colomon now has his main $work testing script working with perlbrew's 5.12.1, and is currently installing Moose...
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13:04 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
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13:06 * colomon now has everything he needs to build niecza except for mono...
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13:15 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
13:15 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
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13:18 masak sorear: why is the executable called 'niecza_eval' rather than just 'niecza'?
13:18 masak or 'perl6'? :)
13:20 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
13:21 moritz_ naming the executable 'perl6' is a bad idea, IMHO
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13:22 masak moritz_: in that case, what makes it a good idea to do it for Rakudo?
13:22 moritz_ masak: I think the reason was the presence of Niecza folder, which collided with the niecza executable on case insensitive file systems
13:22 moritz_ masak: nothing
13:23 flussence well, the binary name wasn't taken at the time :D
13:23 masak but there's no Niecza folder. at least not anymore.
13:24 masak moritz_: also, could you motivate why it'd be a bad idea?
13:24 moritz_ masak: because it's not the perl 6, but a perl 6 - rakudo perl 6, to be specific
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13:28 masak moritz_: not sure I buy that. we're supposed to eventually be calling the executable 'perl', aren't we?
13:28 masak or is that a vestige of the Perl-6-is-a-successor world view?
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13:29 moritz_ masak: I think that I want to have an easy way to call each perl 6 compiler on my machine
13:29 flussence IMO, call the executable perl$version and let the distros decide what to symlink.
13:30 moritz_ having them all named 'perl6', because they all assume they are "the perl6" would be counterproductive
13:30 moritz_ I'd much rather install a perl6 alias myself when I decide which one is "the perl6" for me now
13:31 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
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13:32 masak moritz_: but you're something of a power user. I can easily see people who don't care about implementations and distributions wanting to have a 'perl6' binary or alias installed for them by default.
13:32 mathw Inscribed on my tuppence is the opinion that Rakudo should have a binary called 'rakudo'. A perl6 symlink or alias can easily be provided by packagers.
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13:35 thundergnat ping takadonet
13:35 takadonet thundergnat: yo
13:35 thundergnat Hey, I found a bug in your Algorithm--Diff port
13:35 takadonet sweet!
13:36 thundergnat Youve got an off-by-one error https://github.com/Takadonet/Algorithm--Diff/blob/master/lib/Algorithm/Diff.pm#L224
13:36 thundergnat should be:  return $prunedCount + @thresh if $counting;
13:37 thundergnat BTW, I forked it and ported most of the rest of the subs to perl 6 and added a bunch of tests.
13:38 takadonet nice
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13:38 thundergnat It is at https://github.com/thundergnat/Algorithm--Diff if you have any interest.
13:38 masak thundergnat++
13:38 takadonet at the moment I'm just doing straight up ports without much thought in putting them in p6 idioms
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13:39 thundergnat Feel free to merge it back in or pick and chosse or whatever.
13:39 moritz_ or just hand out a commit bit :-)
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13:39 takadonet moritz_: if I knew how :(
13:39 thundergnat moritz_: or that :-)
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13:40 masak takadonet: there's an "Admin" button on your github repo page.
13:40 moritz_ takadonet: go to the project page, click the "admin" button
13:40 Axius joined #perl6
13:40 moritz_ and then there's a list of collaborators somewhere
13:41 takadonet done
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13:44 takadonet thundergnat: i pushed out the changes sir
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13:45 thundergnat takadonet++l
13:46 thundergnat ++1? (I think i'm mixing my idioms.)
13:46 * masak notifies alester via Twitter about rakudo.org being down
13:46 masak should have thought of that hours ago.
13:47 takadonet thundergnat: do what you like to the main branch of Algorithm::Diff
13:48 thundergnat moritz_: I was reading through your 5 to 6 articles and noticed a sentence that reads awkwardly. In the Junctions-Motivations section: "if the result is $this or the result $that" I think you a word out. :-)
13:49 masak accidentally.
13:49 moritz_ thundergnat: fixing now...
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13:57 rjbs Will there be a p6 advent calendar this year?
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13:58 tadzik rjbs: just creating the first post
13:58 rjbs Great!
13:58 tadzik I mean, posting the alredy-created one. While saying, anyone having some last words?
13:58 masak go for it! :)
13:59 tadzik (I sometimes imagine, what our words will be like when we will come to the conclusion "wow, we are ready to release beta")
14:00 moritz_ tadzik: last words: use pod2html
14:00 tadzik moritz_++
14:00 tadzik I'll have to omit <html>, no?
14:01 moritz_ right
14:01 moritz_ and the headers etc.
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14:03 tadzik Looks like <h2> is bigger than <h1> :F
14:03 masak CSS is no cure against insanity :P
14:03 Juerd <html> is a stupid tag anyway, just like anything that encloses an entire document
14:03 Juerd Yay for "class Foo::Bar;"
14:04 masak Juerd: with that reasoning, <html> makes sense any time you embed HTML into something.
14:04 Juerd It does.
14:04 flussence it's only mandatory if you're writing strict-xml-mimetype xhtml :)
14:04 tadzik http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/reaching-the-stars/
14:05 masak tadzik++ \o/
14:05 Juerd flussence: Indeed. I omit <html>, <head> and <body>. First tag after the doctype is <meta> or <title>.
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14:05 * tadzik reddits
14:05 Juerd s/ and/, and/
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14:06 masak s/fullfiling/fulfilling/
14:07 tadzik where?
14:07 masak just grep.
14:07 tadzik masak: do you have a commit bit?
14:07 masak guess so, but please change it yourself :)
14:07 tadzik sure
14:07 masak I haven't finished reading yet.
14:08 masak there's an unwanted newline after 'built' before 'around it'.
14:08 masak also, I wonder whether there shouldn't be a new paragraph after 'ecosystem.'
14:08 tadzik it seems like html didn't format the paragraphs for me
14:09 masak tadzik: this is what "Preview" is for in Wordpress.
14:09 * moritz_ detects an unusual impatience or grumpiness in masak
14:09 * moritz_ hugs masak
14:09 flussence pfft, real bloggers don't use preview/send raw postdata over netcat/etc
14:09 masak moritz_: thanks :)
14:10 masak I don't think I'm excessively grumpy... and tadzik may choose whatever workflow fits him best with the advent posts.
14:10 masak but I do know that the Preview button proved very useful to me.
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14:11 masak I apologise if saying so came out a bit harsh. :)
14:13 masak tadzik: if you're done editing the post, I could have a go at it.
14:14 tadzik masak: I seem to have no luck with either of wordress editors
14:14 masak then allow me.
14:14 tadzik It seems to add \n after every ~80 chars
14:14 tadzik please go on
14:14 * masak tries
14:14 moritz_ tadzik: int he HTML view, just make sure there are no newlines within a paragraph
14:14 moritz_ ss/int he/in the/
14:15 tadzik moritz_: well, I just removed the newlines in the html view, and they seem to be back somehow
14:15 moritz_ fwiw I just did pod2html with my article, post-processed it with vim, and copied into the HTML box
14:15 moritz_ http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=445&amp;preview=true
14:15 moritz_ it's now scheduled for publishing at midnight (dunno which time zone though :-)
14:16 mathw there is only one time zone!
14:16 mathw it's the one they use in New Zealand
14:16 mathw all other time zones are illusions
14:20 masak tadzik: done. releasing edit lock :)
14:20 tadzik masak++ :)
14:20 tadzik so, what do we havfe for the 3rd?
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14:21 tadzik Also, I'll need a vice-pumpking (pumpprince?), I'll be gone 3-5
14:21 iopluy left #perl6
14:21 tadzik battling under Austerlitz :)
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14:22 tadzik oh wait, I'm for the 3rd
14:22 tadzik I'll try to mangle it up today
14:22 tadzik so, volunteers for the 5th?
14:31 masak surely there aren't fewer people available this year than last year...?
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14:32 tadzik I don't know. I don't know how it was organized last year, but as I'll be gone on 5th I'd feel better knowing that there's someone to blame^Wcount on
14:32 colomon tadzik: don't worry, we'll make sure it goes
14:33 moritz_ masak: last year we didn't fill all slots in advance either
14:33 masak that is so.
14:33 moritz_ tadzik: I can vice-pumpking the calendar if you want
14:34 tadzik moritz_: I'd feel better, thanks
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14:54 masak immediate observation from using niecza: it may be faster than rakudo, but it has a longer startup time.
14:55 takadonet by how much?
14:56 masak timing both once with -e 'say 42' gives 5.2s for niecza and 1.9s for rakudo here.
14:56 daxim OPTIMISE PRIME
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15:00 masak sorear: 'print' doesn't seem to be implemented. is that low-hanging fruit?
15:00 masak can I help? :)
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15:02 masak sorear: niecza complains bitterly when I 'use v6'
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15:03 zenog sorear: Does niecza support loading and accessing C# classes?
15:04 moritz_ masak: fwiw, niecza has an issue tracker :-)
15:04 moritz_ (on github)
15:05 * masak pours out his heart into the issue tracker
15:05 tadzik and that, gentleman, is how the universe began
15:06 masak "gentleman"? who're you talking to? :P
15:06 moritz_ certainly not to the crayz Swede with the sledge hammer
15:07 masak no, didn't think so :)
15:08 daxim crazy swedes with bombs. all swedes are terrorist, aight?  http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/calling-a-swede-a-swede/
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15:24 masak every word in that article is, unfortunately, true.
15:25 daxim hail odin
15:25 masak but only in the parallel universe.
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15:33 ch3ck3r masak \o
15:33 masak ch3ck3r: greetings. how are your Perl 6 explorations going?
15:34 ch3ck3r masak: not at all - i'm still using perl 5
15:34 masak I'm still using Perl 5 too. it's a fine language.
15:35 ch3ck3r yeah
15:35 moritz_ and it has a great ecosystem
15:36 masak ch3ck3r: but if you thought "i'm still using perl 5" was a reason for "not at all [exploring Perl 6]" then I must both disagree and put on a look of honest confusion.
15:36 ch3ck3r :)
15:36 ch3ck3r well
15:37 ch3ck3r i was reading was wikipedia has to say about perl 6
15:37 ch3ck3r is that ok? ;)
15:37 masak it's a start.
15:37 PerlJam ch3ck3r: the places where it says perl 6 is vaporware are lying :)
15:38 ch3ck3r hrhr
15:38 masak anyway, I was just curious. you've started greeting me, so I thought it'd be ok to start querying you about your "spiritual development" on the channel. :)
15:38 masak PerlJam: it says that? :(
15:38 PerlJam masak: there are some entries that (used to) talk about Perl 6 in those terms.
15:38 PerlJam I haven't looked recently.
15:39 PerlJam (the main Perl 6 entry doesn't say that of course)
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15:40 * masak kinda likes the fact that there's a Wikipedia article "Perl 6 rules"
15:41 tadzik :)
15:41 moritz_ but last time I read it, it was totally out of date
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15:41 moritz_ or the corresponding section in the Perl 6 article was
15:41 tadzik cute
15:42 tadzik that'd be a nice GCI task
15:42 tadzik bringing wikipages up to date
15:42 rjbs P6 Advent Editor: English does not use subscribe quotation marks, ever.
15:42 tadzik hm?
15:43 rjbs The „official” part
15:43 tadzik oh, my fault
15:43 rjbs "official" or “official”
15:43 tadzik “official”, right?
15:43 tadzik right
15:43 moritz_ rjbs++
15:43 rjbs Not a big deal, but will confuse English readers who have not encountered bizarre foreign customers. :)
15:43 rjbs customs, even
15:43 tadzik In Polish you use „this kind of quotes”
15:44 tadzik fixed-faxed
15:46 PerlJam It didn't confuse me and I've never seen those sort of quotes before.
15:46 PerlJam But then perhaps I'm biased toward the strange a little bit by virtue of hanging out here :)
15:47 flussence use <q> tags, then it becomes the browser's problem
15:47 masak I noticed it, but thought it was cute and cultural. :)
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15:53 mathw I noticed, but I figured it's not really all that important. English speakers would be far more confused by « » quoting.
15:54 moritz_ really? I've seen them in books all the time
15:54 moritz_ but maybe those weren't english books :-)
15:54 masak likely not.
15:55 tadzik I've seen them in Polish books too
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15:56 mathw I first encountered them in a German translation of a Star Wars book
15:56 PerlJam Why would english speakers be confused by guillemets?
15:56 mathw they never show up in native English, we generally don't even know the characters exist
15:57 PerlJam I always go with "the reader is smart" and will figure out what these symbols mean based on the context in which they are used.
15:57 mathw I've only seen them a few times in English text, always written by non-native speakers
15:58 mathw yeah people could probably figure them out by context
15:58 rjbs I don't think anybody would really be confused.
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15:58 rjbs It's just incorrect, and would be easier to read if corrected.
15:58 rjbs In other words: it would slow down reading.
15:59 PerlJam rjbs: only the first time they were encountered.  :)
15:59 rjbs Sure, but why use them at all?
15:59 rjbs Anyway, not trying to be a pedant, just trying to help keep things smooth sailin'
15:59 PerlJam This is Perl 6 we're talking about!  People should embrace strange symbols and get used to seeing them now rather than later.
15:59 PerlJam L0(
15:59 PerlJam er :-)
16:00 mathw I'm just bored :)
16:00 mathw and going home
16:00 tadzik I'm very sorry I accidentally got used to them
16:00 justatheory joined #perl6
16:00 rjbs tadzik: You are a terrible person.
16:00 tadzik :(
16:01 * rjbs sends tadzik to the Java mines.
16:01 * masak hugs rjbs
16:01 masak rjbs: I got a hug today. now seemed like a good time to pass it on.
16:02 flussence noooo! don't send him to minecraft, you'll never see him again!
16:02 rjbs Thanks!  Perhaps I will pass it on to my 3yo.
16:02 masak (yes, we recognize sarcasm in here. we just don't acknowledge its authority.) :P
16:02 * rjbs tends to avoid sarcasm as much as possible, at least in text.
16:03 rjbs It's a lousy form of humor, and when misunderstood just leads to bad feelings.
16:03 * moritz_ likes sarcasm
16:03 PerlJam moritz_: were you using it just now?
16:03 moritz_ PerlJam: no
16:04 PerlJam just checking  :)
16:04 moritz_ :-)
16:04 rjbs PerlJam: Great question.
16:04 * rjbs adds p6advent to his 2010 advent calendars list.
16:04 tadzik rjbs: weren't you using it just now?
16:04 tadzik (sarcasm)
16:05 masak I'm sorry I mentioned the word "sarcasm" :)
16:05 rjbs tadzik: The world may never know.
16:05 PerlJam tadzik: no, I think he was being sincere rather than sarcastic
16:05 PerlJam (at least I'd like to believe that so it must be so :)
16:06 rjbs If I wanted to publish a web design advent calendar, I would want it to look better than http://24ways.org/
16:07 PerlJam masak: Here's something to think about then: when you hugged rjbs, I considered doing the same and then I thought, "what if everybody hugged rjbs?" and then I coined "hugpile" in my head.  So, feel free to start hugpiles anytime :)
16:07 tadzik "terrible" sounds like something that can be either sarcarstic or nice
16:08 tadzik or even sarcastic. Colemak is hard
16:08 masak PerlJam: in a circle of friends I'm part of, we already have hugpiles. but we call them "hugging according to the principles of Dr. Volkov" :)
16:09 masak PerlJam: I've been at the bottom of such a pile. with five or so people on top of you, it's hard to breathe. also, my mobile phone lost a couple of functions from the pressure. but overall it was still a nice experience.
16:10 colomon ack.  mono on my CentOS is version 1.2.4.  :(
16:10 colomon I think this is going to be one of Those Days.
16:11 PerlJam colomon: It's the first day of advent!  It's *got* to be one of *those* days.
16:19 masak it's Yapsi release day.
16:19 tadzik oh!
16:19 colomon sorear: ping?
16:19 tadzik and how many days to the announcement?
16:20 masak 9.
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16:26 masak alester replies on Twitter that he wasn't aware rakudo.org was down.
16:26 alester joined #perl6
16:27 alester OK, who broke rakudo.org?
16:27 TimToady who didn't unbreak it?
16:27 masak did there have to be an active agent breaking rakudo.org?
16:27 masak I think the past day or so show how much people would like it to work, at least.
16:28 masak alester: I'm glad I checked with you, rather than just assume that you were already working day and night to fix it.
16:28 alester masak: Next time, please send me an email though.
16:28 masak ok.
16:28 alester The only reason I saw your tweet was 'cause my Google Alert picked it up.
16:29 alester I'm kicking over Apache.
16:29 alester (Step 1: Turn it off and back on again)
16:30 alester ta-da!
16:30 masak alester++
16:30 alester BEHOLD THE POWER OF /etc/init.d/httpd restart!
16:30 Axius left #perl6
16:30 masak next time, how do we avoid everyone just assuming that alester knows about rakudo.org being down?
16:31 alester Everyone email me.
16:31 masak I like that plan.
16:32 Axius joined #perl6
16:33 colomon phenny: tell sorear Do you have a better explanation of what bits of mono are needed for niecza, for those of us who can't just apt get mono-complete?  Thanks!
16:33 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
16:35 alester masak: I figure that that is a fine plan until it becomes unworkable.
16:35 masak exactly.
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16:55 PerlJam colomon: I made do with only mono-xbuild and mono-gcms
16:56 PerlJam er, mono-gmcs
17:03 diakopter if you're building from source just build all
17:13 diakopter colomon: on which platform are you?
17:14 diakopter macosx? centos?
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17:22 ash_ rakudo.org is back up, /yay
17:25 [Coke] alester++
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17:49 * [Coke] realizes that whatever is stolen from SQL!
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17:52 colomon diakopter: I was trying to build niecza on centos.  I'm even more cautious about installing stuff on my macosx.  :)
17:52 ch3ck3r left #perl6
17:55 ash_ [Coke]: imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
17:55 ash_ or something like that
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18:40 lichtkind TimToady: regex_mod_internal means only tobe used inside a regex not in front as a adverb?
18:40 lichtkind sorry thats was a dup
18:42 * moritz_ has a deja-vu
18:42 moritz_ rakudo: $_ = 'foobar'; s:g/o/u/; .say
18:42 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«fuubar␤»
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18:55 lichtkind moritz_: not becaus me?
18:56 moritz_ lichtkind: because of you
18:57 lichtkind moritz_: i just missed the right line from IRC history to identify my nick
18:58 moritz_ lichtkind: you can configure your IRC client to identify itself automatically upon connect
18:58 justatheory joined #perl6
19:01 lichtkind even chatzilla?
19:02 moritz_ dunno
19:02 moritz_ I assumed a sane IRC client :-)
19:03 sorear good * #perl6
19:03 phenny sorear: 16:33Z <colomon> tell sorear Do you have a better explanation of what bits of mono are needed for niecza, for those of us who can't just apt get mono-complete?  Thanks!
19:04 colomon sorear: PerlJam++ tells me mono-xbuild and mono-gcms... does that sound right?
19:04 sorear colomon: to my knowledge, only Debian and Ubuntu are insane enough to split up mono
19:04 sorear on any other OS, you can just get "mono"
19:04 sorear oh
19:05 sorear xbuild and gmcs are definitely required
19:05 sorear you'll also need the interpreter, mscorlib.dll, System.dll, and Mono.CompilerServices.SymbolWriter.dll
19:05 sorear what are you on
19:06 sorear OS
19:06 colomon CentOS
19:09 sorear colomon: ah, well.  try PerlJam's suggestion, if it works let me know and I'll add it to README
19:09 rurban joined #perl6
19:11 sorear phenny: tell masak The contents of src/ used to be in the root.  I haven't renamed niecza_eval back to niecza because it would be rather disruptive, esp. for p6eval
19:11 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
19:13 sorear zenog: Not transparently
19:13 sorear rjbs: I've seen quotes like that before.  I always assumed they wer mojibake.
19:15 rurban left #perl6
19:17 rjbs mojibake has one of my favorite pics on wikipedia (the envelope)
19:18 uniejo left #perl6
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19:34 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
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19:42 sorear rjbs: that pic is awesome.
19:45 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
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19:56 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
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20:02 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
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20:07 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
20:10 tadzik I like how the advent calendar post on reddit got dozen upvotes and not a single comment
20:11 moritz_ did you submit it to r/programming too?
20:13 tadzik nope
20:13 tadzik will do. I feel adventurous
20:13 moritz_ the most you can lose is karma
20:13 tadzik right
20:13 moritz_ http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/12/01/1419230/Advent-Calendar-For-Geeks
20:13 tadzik and we may get a new Perlist. This is worth spending karma
20:14 tadzik is there a 'crosspost' button?
20:14 moritz_ don't think so, you have to submit again
20:14 tadzik looks so
20:15 tadzik woah, reddit, don't load so fast!
20:16 tadzik http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eeont/perl_6_advent_calendar_2010_has_begun/ -- upvote time!
20:22 wolverian reddit is being extra slow today
20:32 MayDaniel left #perl6
20:34 tadzik seen mberends?
20:34 aloha mberends was last seen in #perl6 7 days 14 hours ago saying "masak: o/".
20:35 * sorear is thinking about IDLs for :from
20:36 tadzik nihil novi. Wonder if he'll like what I've done to http-server-simple
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21:34 dalek niecza: 8969521 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
21:34 dalek niecza: Run indexers off trampoline
21:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8969521cff
21:34 dalek niecza: d54a475 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
21:34 dalek niecza: Inline fill into eager and head
21:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d54a475686
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21:49 sorear I've cut the number of Perl6-level method calls by nearly 25% but that hasn't translated into a big performance improvement :/
21:50 Tene sorear: you need to make your method calls slower first, so that that would be a bigger improvement.
21:50 Tene And then you could make your method calls fast again, getting a second improvement.
21:51 diakopter sorear: I guess that means the Perl6-level method calls are being optimized(-away?) quite well.
21:51 diakopter *headdesk* <-- at myself
21:55 sjohnson is that like a pacepalm, except when you hit your head against the desk?
21:55 sjohnson facepalm*
21:57 jnthn Yes, but since you don't need to take your hands off the keyboard, you can do it without harming your productivity.
21:58 dalek 6model: b33265d | diakopter++ | / (4 files):
21:58 dalek 6model: [dotnet] fix an (my) diakopter-- off-by-one error in Ops/P6list.cs
21:58 dalek 6model: comment debugging output in the regex engine
21:58 dalek 6model: add more tests to 45-smartmatch.t that all pass
21:58 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/b33265d430
21:58 dalek 6model: 9819ae5 | diakopter++ | / (5 files):
21:58 dalek 6model: [dotnet] regex alternation & deep backtracking work
21:58 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/9819ae5a96
22:07 ch3ck joined #perl6
22:08 ch3ck rehi
22:08 diakopter
22:08 lue joined #perl6
22:09 lue ohai o/
22:10 sjohnson hi!
22:11 mtve joined #perl6
22:21 ch3ck huch was kommt von draußen rein?
22:23 TimToady 分かりません!
22:25 huf a hatalom a tiétek!
22:25 lue che3ck: I recognize most of that text. My guess is "[huch] what comes [von] outside in" ?
22:25 diakopter nqpnet: say("abc" ~~ /[a|ao|az|ae|egge|dwef|ffewf|fgsvd|ab]c/);
22:25 p6eval nqpnet: OUTPUT«abc␤»
22:25 lue s/che3/ch3/
22:26 ch3ck3r joined #perl6
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22:27 risou joined #perl6
22:27 lue .oO(Who else is feeling the slightest tinge of worry that the advent schedule is empty on day 5?)
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22:38 masak ahoy!
22:38 phenny masak: 19:11Z <sorear> tell masak The contents of src/ used to be in the root.  I haven't renamed niecza_eval back to niecza because it would be rather disruptive, esp. for p6eval
22:38 masak sorear: ah.
22:38 sjohnson huf:  huf huf huf
22:38 sjohnson masak: yo
22:38 masak sorear: I now have a 'niecza' alias in my bash_profile anyway :)
22:39 * masak goes into Yapsi release mode
22:39 huf sjohnson: yeees?
22:39 dalek yapsi: 747d9d6 | masak++ | README:
22:39 dalek yapsi: [README] a few updates
22:39 dalek yapsi:
22:39 dalek yapsi: - Added the location of ufo.
22:39 dalek yapsi: - Can now do both immediate and non-immediate blocks.
22:39 dalek yapsi: - Changed wording to reflect this.
22:39 dalek yapsi: - Also changed the example.
22:39 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/747d9d6e07
22:39 dalek yapsi: 0fafca2 | masak++ | / (2 files):
22:39 dalek yapsi: [Yapsi] implemented binding of literals
22:39 dalek yapsi:
22:39 dalek yapsi: The fact the we didn't have this until now could be called an
22:39 dalek yapsi: "accidentall omission". All the machinery was there, just not
22:39 dalek yapsi: the actual instructions.
22:39 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/0fafca2e24
22:39 dalek yapsi: 6fbdf7a | masak++ | / (2 files):
22:39 dalek yapsi: [Yapsi] make binding blocks work
22:39 dalek yapsi:
22:39 dalek yapsi: It's at times like this that I'm really glad to have a test suite.
22:39 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/6fbdf7ab5d
22:39 sorear hi masak!
22:39 masak henceforth today when I say "announcement", I'll be talking about the Yapsi 2010.12 announcement, not the Big Announcement nine days from now :)
22:41 jnthn .oO( "Release number 5 of Yapsi is quite a task, 'cus I'm doing it on a satellite uplink from the Amazon..." )
22:44 lue hai masak o/
22:44 masak jnthn: bonus points for incorporating all the clues so far. :P but no, Big Announcement is nine days from now, not tonight.
22:44 jnthn Aww.
22:45 masak lue: I'm not too worried about slot 5 being empty. I do hope more people will volunteer as authors, though.
22:45 sjohnson huf: just was jokin around :)
22:45 masak this is a clear case of many cooks improving the broth :)
22:47 lue .oO("As you can see in this pot of broth, there's this empty space, a cube of air for Broth #5 when it comes along.")
22:50 sjohnson .oO(i wonder what i'm going to have for lunch)
22:51 masak you guys think too much.
22:51 * lue considers learning Temporal to teach it to the masses, or maybe another topic...
22:52 sjohnson masak: once perl 6 is widespread on systems i use by default, i'll get to think much less
22:52 * sjohnson is looking forward to that day
22:52 masak lue: I like the choice of topic. that's something that's largely new since last December.
22:53 lue , although the fact I've never used the current Temporal. Then again, I'm an avid fan of Time [ in case it wasn't obvious before :) ] ...
22:54 lue s/although/despite/
22:55 masak never too late to start using Temporal.
22:55 masak and if you want to give yourself more time, you don't have to claim slot #5.
22:56 masak one mean comment so far on http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eeont/perl_6_advent_calendar_2010_has_begun/
22:56 masak try to be kind to the poor misguided person who posted it. please. :)
22:57 lue If I go Temporal, I wouldn't claim slot 5. I think having a sequence of posts go "2. MAIN sub    3. File Operations    4. Sequences    5. TIME BENDING!" doesn't seem right :)
22:58 sjohnson masak: which irc client do you use?
22:58 sjohnson just complete curiosity
22:59 masak sjohnson: Emacs ERC.
22:59 sjohnson interesting
22:59 sjohnson didnt know emacs had irc
22:59 sjohnson is it official, or a 3rd party plugin some guy wrote for emacs?
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22:59 masak but knowing it does, are you surprised? :)
22:59 lue rjbond3rd said it right
23:00 bluescreen is now known as Guest90083
23:00 masak sjohnson: I don't know. it came with Carbon Emacs, but that doesn't say much.
23:00 jnthn Doesn't emacs have everything? ;)
23:00 lue It has an organizer! \o/
23:01 jnthn I bet it even has a girlfriend.
23:01 jnthn And a unicorn.
23:01 lue [I got ERC on what I think is a 'vanilla' release (just emacs)]
23:01 * flussence refrains from eviscerating reddit users off the bat this time
23:01 lue the org-mode (the organizer) logo IS A UNICORN! :O
23:01 masak flussence++
23:02 sjohnson it has a richard stallman AI chat bot you can talk to
23:02 wallberg left #perl6
23:05 dalek niecza: f1de2f3 | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
23:05 dalek niecza: Add Num.Bool context accelerator
23:05 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f1de2f3d61
23:05 dalek niecza: 374a32a | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
23:05 dalek niecza: Add context accelerators for List.Num and .Bool
23:05 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/374a32a967
23:05 dalek niecza: d3f9e5c | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
23:05 dalek niecza: Context accelerator for Match.Str
23:05 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d3f9e5c411
23:06 lue Are the POD versions of the posts in mu/ just a copy of the posts, or are the posts automagically retrieved from there?
23:06 lue .oO(emacs also has a psychiatrist.)
23:08 sjohnson <--- likes Vim a lot
23:10 lue or rather, do you put POD docs in mu/misc/perl6advent-2010/articles and then some bot posts it for you, or do you just put POD copies of the post in the repo?
23:10 sorear no bots
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23:22 dalek niecza: ba74359 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
23:22 sorear 39.67s \o/
23:22 dalek niecza: [v6] Optimize the pad filtering regex
23:22 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ba7435969f
23:22 sorear getting closer!
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23:25 masak sorear: wow, that's quite an improvement!
23:26 icwiener left #perl6
23:27 masak I'd like to kindly request help reviewing https://github.com/masak/yapsi/blob/master/doc/announce/2010.12
23:27 masak going to make a tarball and announce the release soonish.
23:28 dalek yapsi: 24bab0b | masak++ | doc/ChangeLog:
23:28 dalek yapsi: [doc/ChangeLog] updated from 2010.12
23:28 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/24bab0bb2c
23:28 dalek yapsi: 6ef9b12 | masak++ | doc/announce/2010.12:
23:28 dalek yapsi: [doc/announce/2010.12] added
23:28 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/6ef9b12cf8
23:31 lue "structual meta-circular induction" :) [mostly cos I have little idea what that says]
23:32 masak lue: proof by intimidation. :)
23:33 lue masak: I am sorry to say I will have to have an inappropriate amount of fun. Sorry.
23:34 masak did I misspell "structural"? hm, no, seems I didn't.
23:34 jnthn Looks right to me.
23:34 Eevee left #perl6
23:34 masak jnthn: I hope I quoted you right-ish too.
23:34 lue I have confused you with an accidental misspell on my part!
23:35 jnthn masak: oh no, I'd best check this announcement...
23:35 jnthn https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/6ef9b12cf8
23:35 jnthn oops
23:35 masak review by intimidation :P
23:36 lue .oO(noitadimitni yby intimidation)
23:36 Eevee joined #perl6
23:38 garbar joined #perl6
23:38 jnthn masak++
23:39 masak \o/
23:39 masak in other news, the Parrot people are thinking of deprecating their deprecation process. that almost sounds like something those Yapsi devs would come up with!
23:39 garbar left #perl6
23:40 lue would they use the currently standing deprecation process to deprecate the current deprecation process?
23:40 jnthn lol
23:40 Chillance left #perl6
23:41 dalek 6model: 7be7e82 | jonathan++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
23:41 dalek 6model: [common] Twiddle with find_method a bit so it doesn't use explicit return. (Yes, we'll probably hit this in a tiny, tiny fraction of the cases we do now once method cache publication or other such things are in place, but still worth improving.)
23:41 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/7be7e82ea9
23:41 dalek 6model: e85b6a1 | jonathan++ | dotnet/compiler/NQPOptimizer.pm:
23:41 dalek 6model: [dotnet] At least let the optimizer know what a PAST::Regex node is.
23:41 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/e85b6a1e5e
23:41 rgrau_ left #perl6
23:45 lue why does :second in DateTime have a range of  0.0..^62.0  ?
23:45 masak lue: because of leap seconds.
23:45 lue ah.
23:50 lue (I can't wait for the Earth's orbit around the sun to expand enough to give us 366 days every year.)
23:57 am0c joined #perl6
23:59 masak p6c email sent.
23:59 masak preparing blog post.

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