Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:09 sjohnson masak-pal
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00:12 sjohnson .oO(error today, gone tomorrow)
00:14 masak blog post posted. http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/yapsi-201012-released
00:14 sjohnson wow
00:14 sjohnson interesting project
00:14 * masak stands down release mode
00:15 masak sjohnson: yes, I tend to think so. and it's quite fun to try and implement Perl 6 in Perl 6.
00:17 jnthn Wow. Next release will be on New Year's Day.
00:17 flussence I read the other day that PyPy (python 2.6 written in python) is apparently faster than the C implementation at some things now
00:17 flussence maybe p6 will be one day :)
00:18 masak flussence: not at the rate Rakudo is getting slower... :P
00:19 sjohnson does PyPy use CPython though to run its pythonc ode?
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00:21 sjohnson bash question: $* will get all the args in a .sh script, is there a way to get $2*, so to speak?
00:21 masak sjohnson: #bash
00:22 flussence shift works in bash too
00:22 sjohnson flussence: thanks
00:23 sjohnson flussence++ indeed it does
00:23 LoRe sjohnson: most of the time one wants "$@" instead of $*
00:24 sjohnson LoRe: good to know.. how come?
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00:25 LoRe sjohnson: try: echo 'for i in "$@"; do echo "$i"; done;' > foo.sh; sh foo.sh "a b" "c d"
00:25 LoRe and then try the same with $@, $* and "$*" :)
00:25 sjohnson .oO(wonders if thats where perl got it's @list syntax)
00:26 sjohnson snail sigil!
00:28 lue (My guess is the sigils were chosen because they look like letters:  $calars, @rrays, %ashes, &ode)
00:28 sjohnson that would be a good guess
00:28 sjohnson LoRe++ # you too
00:29 huf i always thought arrays were round like @ :)
00:29 huf but maybe i have it backwards and think arrays are round because of @
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00:31 jnthn sleep &
00:34 masak ooh, good idea.
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00:54 dalek yapsi: 9a9d1bb | masak++ | lib/Yapsi.pm:
00:54 dalek yapsi: [Yapsi] bumped SIC version
00:54 dalek yapsi:
00:54 dalek yapsi: Between releases, the SIC version is always the version number of the
00:54 dalek yapsi: upcoming release.
00:54 dalek yapsi: review: https://github.com/masak/yapsi/commit/9a9d1bbc04
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02:27 colomon sorear: ping?
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02:30 fbrito1 is Moritz Lenz here? :)
02:31 sjohnson seen moritz_
02:31 aloha moritz_ was last seen in #perl6 6 hours 16 mins ago saying "don't think so, you have to submit again".
02:32 fbrito1 ok, thank you :)
02:33 fbrito1 msg moritz_ I am a GCI student working on this task: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations/t129079857380 and I have some questions. Please contact me when you are back. Thank you :)
02:33 fbrito1 ops
02:34 fbrito1 that was supposed to be PVT to aloha :P
02:34 diakopter do it like:   phenny: ask moritz  <msg>
02:34 diakopter er
02:34 diakopter do it like:   phenny: ask moritz_  <msg>
02:35 fbrito1 is now known as fbrito
02:35 diakopter I don't know that aloha does that
02:35 fbrito on #parrot @ irc.parrot.org, it does :)
02:35 diakopter oh.
02:36 fbrito but I think it works different here
02:36 fbrito phenny: ask fbrito testing bot
02:36 phenny You can ask yourself that.
02:36 fbrito aahhaha, owned :(
02:37 fbrito aloha: msg fbrito testing bot
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02:39 fbrito phenny: ask moritz_ I am a GCI student working on this task: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations/t129079857380 and I have some questions. Please contact me when you are back. Thank you :)
02:39 phenny fbrito: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
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02:57 colomon diakopter++
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03:17 fbrito is anyone here also in charge of the Rakudo task on GCI?
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04:23 colomon rakudo: say 'a', *.succ ... 'f'
04:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«abcdef␤»
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06:12 sorear good * #perl6
06:12 sorear yapsi: my $i = 5; while $i { $i--; say $i }
06:12 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Yapsi' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
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06:15 sorear colomon: pong
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06:16 sorear phenny: tell masak If yapsi has arbitrary-precision ints, while loops, if statements, ++, and --, it's Turing complete.  Look up Minsky register machines.
06:16 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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07:43 moritz_ good morning
07:43 phenny moritz_: 02:39Z <fbrito> ask moritz_ I am a GCI student working on this task: http://www.google-melange.com/gci/task/show/google/gci2010/parrot_perl_foundations/t129079857380 and I have some questions. Please contact me when you are back. Thank you :)
07:53 alc joined #perl6
07:58 * moritz_ had scheduled the advent calendar post for publishing, but didn't press "publish"
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08:01 sorear good morning moritz_
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08:52 * moritz_ just had 50 min commute that usually take 20min
08:52 sorear ow
08:53 moritz_ snow and all
08:53 * sorear is trying to come up with a sane way of exposing foreign imports
08:54 sorear any other C#/CLR/.NET programmers here?  how would you expect :from<> to work?  (sample code, I'll make it work)
08:54 sorear POLS
08:56 * sorear pings jnthn
08:56 * sorear pings diakopter too
09:00 * sorear makes a preemptive strike against the ticket queue
09:01 dalek niecza: 2e2c977 | sorear++ | test2.pl:
09:01 dalek niecza: Test + calling .Numeric (GH-3)
09:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2e2c977368
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09:33 LoRe moritz_: shouldn't that be perl6 add.pl
09:33 LoRe err, paste fail
09:33 LoRe moritz_: shouldn't that be: perl6 add.pl 3 4 in the first example? http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/day-2-interacting-with-the-command-line-with-main-subs/
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09:46 dalek niecza: e7cb374 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
09:46 dalek niecza: Add &print
09:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e7cb37472d
09:49 zenog sorear: C# programmer here, but no experience in handling assemblies/importing etc.
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09:56 dalek niecza: 55c766a | sorear++ | src/Niecza/Actions.pm:
09:56 dalek niecza: Parse and ignore use vXXX
09:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/55c766aee5
09:57 sorear zenog: I still care!
09:57 sorear rakudo: use v5; use v7;
09:57 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
09:58 tadzik o/
09:58 * sorear has closed 60% of niecza's bugs
09:59 sorear zenog: let's suppose you want to write some code using the base class library.  What will you try?
10:00 zenog sorear: You mean in Perl 6, using .NET 'System' namespace?
10:00 sorear yes
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10:07 * sorear -> sleep, will resume with zenog tomorrow
10:09 zenog sorear: Maybe like in IronPython: http://www.ismll.uni-hildesheim.de/mymedialite/documentation/use_engine_from_python.html
10:11 zenog sorear: So in Perl: "use CLR; CLR::add_reference("MyDLL.dll"); use MyNamespace;"
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10:12 tadzik LoRe: should, fixing
10:12 zenog or "use CLR; use System; ..."
10:12 zenog or "use CLR; use CLR::System; ..."
10:13 tadzik LoRe: fixed-faxed
10:14 zenog or (I would like it better that way) "use DotNET; use DotNET::System; DotNET::System::Console->WriteLine("hello");
10:16 zenog and then "my $console = DotNET::System->Console; $console->WriteLine('hello');"
10:20 moritz_ LoRe: uhm, isn't it perl6 add.pl 3 4  ?
10:20 Tene use System::Foo :from<CLR>;
10:21 Tene IMO
10:21 tadzik moritz_: I just fixed it O)
10:21 tadzik :)
10:21 moritz_ tadzik: thanks
10:21 moritz_ what was it before?
10:22 tadzik there was no ' 3 4'
10:22 moritz_ oh
10:24 tadzik is it a good idea to advertise File::Find in the advent calendar a bit?
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10:25 moritz_ IMHO yes
10:25 tadzik Bien
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10:32 tadzik oh, I've just learned about :test in dir(). High time
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10:48 zenog sorear: I would expect namespaces to be mapped to modules, and of course classes as well. Properties should be mapped to getters and setters.
11:09 moritz_ another nice advent calendar: http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/12/2010_hubble_space_telescope_ad.html :-)
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11:30 colomon sorear: sorry for the false alarm.  had issues building niecza last night, but diakopter and I concluded it was because I was using Mono 2.4.2, and so I left my Ubuntu VM doing a major version upgrade overnight in an attempt to get "easy" access to one of the 2.6.x packages.
11:35 wallberg great job with today's Perl 6 calendar post! I really appreciate it.
11:35 moritz_ wallberg: thanks
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12:21 zenog colomon: Check out http://badgerports.org/ if you want up-to-date Mono packages on Ubuntu.
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12:32 colomon zenog++
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13:01 takadonet morning all
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13:03 takadonet sorear: wait till masak is set loose on your implementation.
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13:07 lurker_ rakudo.org is down again?
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13:12 moritz_ http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/rakudo.org
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13:17 flussence hmm, that's not good... my spectest runs are getting really low scores and lots of segfaults lately
13:23 moritz_ flussence: on the recommended parrot revision?
13:23 moritz_ maybe it's time we bump it again
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13:26 flussence well, it's doing a git-clean + Configure.pl --gen-parrot rebuild beforehand each time, so I'd assume it's using the right parrot...
13:27 flussence the box has about 1.2GB free RAM and I've thrown 2GB swap at it, so I don't think it's OOM causing problems...
13:27 moritz_ the parrot revision that's downloaded that way is known to have GC problems
13:27 moritz_ it's fixed later on
13:28 moritz_ but I forgot to bump the revision
13:28 flussence oh, ok :)
13:28 [Coke] moritz_: O_o
13:28 dalek rakudo: 864869c | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
13:28 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to avoid GC segfaults, and to get some testing
13:28 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/864869cf77
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13:30 flussence I'll know in about 2.5 hours if that fixed it ;)
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13:47 dalek rakudo: bf97c8f | fernandobrito++ | / (3 files):
13:47 dalek rakudo: Move duplicated code from Configure.pl and CompareRevisions.pm
13:47 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bf97c8f402
13:47 dalek rakudo: 25db176 | fernandobrito++ | Configure.pl:
13:47 dalek rakudo: [Configure.pl] Move function call
13:47 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25db176863
13:47 dalek rakudo: d781754 | fernandobrito++ | Configure.pl:
13:47 dalek rakudo: Rename variable in Configure.pl
13:47 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d7817541d5
13:47 dalek rakudo: 95f3fef | moritz++ | / (3 files):
13:47 dalek rakudo: Merge remote branch 'fbrito/gci_task'
13:47 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/95f3fef785
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14:23 arnsholt :q
14:23 arnsholt Er, hups
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14:50 masak oh hai, #perl6!
14:50 phenny masak: 06:16Z <sorear> tell masak If yapsi has arbitrary-precision ints, while loops, if statements, ++, and --, it's Turing complete.  Look up Minsky register machines.
14:52 masak that is true, but Yapsi doesn't have arbitrary-precision ints, because Rakudo doesn't.
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14:56 masak rakudo: use v6; say "alive"
14:56 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:56 masak rakudo: use v7; say "alive"
14:56 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:56 * masak submits rakudobug
14:57 oha rakudo: use v5; say "alive"
14:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:57 masak oha: that's fine.
14:57 masak rakudo: use v6.1; say "alive"
14:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«alive␤»
14:57 masak that isn't.
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14:59 oha may i access an object private attribute from outside?
15:00 masak to a first approximation, no.
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15:00 masak that's what makes it private.
15:00 oha no cheats for?
15:00 masak first tell me why you're inclined to cheat. :)
15:00 oha Socket
15:01 masak I don't understand.
15:01 oha i can't augment Socket::INET cauz it use rules
15:01 oha and rules are immutable
15:01 oha i would like to try a fix for recv() in Socket.pm
15:01 masak if you're augmenting, you can exploit a Rakudo bug and get at the private stuff anyways.
15:02 oha i can't augment IO::Socket::INET, this cause a role to be reapplied and it fails saying the rule can't reapply
15:03 oha rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class IO::Socket::INET { }
15:03 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Attribute '$!PIO' already exists in the class, but a role also wishes to compose it␤»
15:03 oha so i was looking for a way to just access $!PIO in IO::Socket to try some fixes
15:05 masak ok, this solution is totally non-proportional to the scope of the problem.
15:05 masak and it's ultimately bad style.
15:05 masak but... you should be able to use attribute introspection.
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15:05 * masak perpares a small example
15:06 oha masak: ty!
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15:07 masak rakudo: class A { has $!x }; my $a = A.new(:x(42)); say A.^attributes(:local)[0].get_value($a)
15:07 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«42␤»
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15:07 masak wield this tool... wisely.
15:07 oha yup
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15:07 masak the '^' there means "I *really* know what I'm doing".
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15:09 oha the [0] means i know the position, may i use it as a hash?
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15:10 masak no, it's a List.
15:10 oha ok
15:13 oha being a parrot object it seems i can't really access it
15:15 masak that's arguably a bug.
15:15 PerlJam who would argue it's not a bug?
15:16 PerlJam once you drink the introspection kool-aid, you expect turtles all the way down.
15:18 masak PerlJam: when you use the term "kool-aid" like that, I can't tell if you're sincere or sarcastic.
15:18 masak but yes, I agree that it's more-than-arguably a bug.
15:18 PerlJam that's okay, sometimes I can't tell either. :)
15:19 PerlJam but, in this instance it was sincerity
15:21 rjbs kool-aid is a horrible term.
15:21 flussence I think we need a less perjorative term than kool-aid, considering there's so much oppurtunity to use one in here :)
15:21 masak I think "drinking the kool-aid of" is a suboptimal way to say "believing".
15:22 rjbs It compared the idea under discussion to mass suicide and belittles an awful historical event.
15:22 moritz_ we got a positive comment on the MAIN subs advent post
15:22 rjbs moritz_: mjd said the sub MAIN post was "cool" :)
15:22 rjbs Sorry, "Nice."
15:22 masak rjbs: oh! I didn't know that the kool-aid was related to that incident. then yes, it's a horrible metaphor.
15:23 moritz_ rjbs: that's cool. I kinda think impressing MJD is hard (when it comes to programming, at least)
15:23 rjbs Yeah, the metaphor is that you believe something so strongly that you're willing to "drink the kool aid."
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15:31 colomon phenny: tell sorear I consistently get: "/home/colomon/tools/niecza/Niecza.proj: error : Command 'viv --noperl6lib -5 -o src/Niecza/Grammar.pmc src/Niecza/Grammar.pm6' exited with code: 127."  Running by hand works.
15:31 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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15:32 masak colomon: 'cpanm STD'
15:32 colomon masak: "Running by hand works."
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15:33 colomon however, it now appears I may have gotten this same error as last time, but for a different reason.
15:33 masak ok. don't really know what you mean by that.
15:33 masak but when I got that error, I installed STD and things worked.
15:34 colomon I copy the command given there and paste it to the command line.
15:34 moritz_ it might have different environment variables set up
15:34 moritz_ oh, and do you check the return code?
15:34 moritz_ echo $?
15:35 PerlJam I didn't actually install STD from CPAN.   I had a repo on disk and I just added the path to that repo to PERL5LIB and made sure viv was in my PATH
15:35 colomon Trying to get niecza to work has been a ludicrous odyssey.  If I were sane, I would have given up about 12 hours ago.
15:35 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ef1cp/perl_6interacting_with_the_command_line_with_main/
15:35 takadonet got another positive post on MAIN subs
15:36 moritz_ takadonet: and that's in the programming section... I'm just waiting for the wave of trolls to arrive :-)
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15:38 takadonet moritz_: soon
15:38 takadonet that why i linked it here. Get ready to defend
15:39 masak heh, trying to coax niecza to do things is kinda fun. a whole new set of restrictions to learn and work with :)
15:41 colomon I guess maybe I'll start over tomorrow with a fresh shiny new Ubuntu VM and see if I can build niecza there.
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16:23 colomon rakudo: my @Fib := 0, 1, *+* ... *; say @Fib[^10].perl
16:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«(0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34)␤»
16:24 colomon rakudo: my @Fib := 0, 1, *+* ... *; say @Fib.kv[^10].perl
16:24 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«(0, 0, 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 4, 3)␤»
16:25 colomon rakudo: my @Fib := 0, 1, *+* ... *; say @Fib.kv.grep(-> $x, $y { $x %% 2 }).map(-> $x, $y { $y })[^10].perl
16:25 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/NGvYiJShk_␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1489:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1␤  in 'List::at_pos' at line 1␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 174…
16:26 colomon rakudo: my @Fib := 0, 1, *+* ... *; say @Fib.kv.grep(-> $x, $y { $x %% 2 }).map(-> $x, $y { $y }).munch(10).perl
16:26 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c d>.grep: -> $a, $b { 1 }
16:26 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 2␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/UTPZAgDNsF␤  in 'Block::ACCEPTS' at line 5975:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1489:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
16:26 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:27 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c d>.grep: -> $a, $b { 1 }
16:27 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:27 moritz_ urks
16:27 moritz_ the old fails-to-print bug :(
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16:32 colomon rakudo: say (4, 4 ... *)[^10]
16:33 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«4444444444␤»
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16:34 colomon rakudo: say (4, 4, 10 ... *)[^10]
16:34 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Method 'count' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤  in <anon> at line 835:CORE.setting␤  in 'List::at_pos' at line 1␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 1742:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 1␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
16:36 JimmyZ left #perl6
16:37 colomon I think that one might be a bug; at least, at one point I'm pretty sure the spec called for that to be a start to a valid sequence.  (Blogging now, no time to check.)
16:38 moritz_ rakudo: say (4, 4, 4, 4, 10 ... *)
16:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«444410»
16:38 colomon rakudo: say (4, 4, 4, 4 ... *)
16:38 colomon whoops
16:39 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«(timeout)444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444…
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16:39 moritz_ good thing we have flood protection in p6eval :-)
16:40 colomon yeah, when I was a kid we'd have had to move elsewhere after a flood like that.  ;)
16:40 moritz_ colomon: did you have evalbots when you were a kid? :-)
16:40 timbunce left #perl6
16:41 colomon Back then we called them "Commodore 64s".
16:42 [Coke] POKE 53280, 0
16:42 colomon [Coke]++
16:43 * moritz_ suddenly feels so young
16:43 * colomon admits he doesn't remember 53280 being an interesting memory location.  Unless... was it in the SID?
16:43 * [Coke] grabbed it from wikipedia.
16:44 * [Coke] hangs his head in shame.
16:44 [Coke] moritz_: get off my (*#&@$ lawn.
16:44 [Coke] and fix my compiler.
16:45 timbunce joined #perl6
16:45 colomon Ah, it's a VIC-II register.
16:45 colomon In my defense, it's been at least twenty years since I coded on a C-64.
16:47 colomon moritz_: Honestly, I only recall one flood of any significance after I got the C-64, and that was when we had the new house, three feet further off the ground than the old house.
16:47 takadonet well been 15 years since I played on a C-64
16:47 ash_ i'd say like 98% of my computer science life so far has been on x86, with the other 2% being about 75% AVR and 25% arm
16:49 ash_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Int $a) { $a / 100 }; say 2% * 75%;
16:49 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0.015␤»
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16:49 ash_ oh so nifty
16:50 colomon I did enough hard core C-64 programming that I had at least one program that needed to switch out a ROM block to get at the RAM hidden beneath it.
16:50 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Int $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say 20%
16:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«20%␤»
16:50 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Int $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say (20% * 5%)%
16:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$a'; expected Int but got Rat instead␤  in 'postfix:<%>' at line 22:/tmp/hCF9Xqm0uA␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/hCF9Xqm0uA␤»
16:51 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say (20% * 5%)%
16:51 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0.01%␤»
16:51 ash_ ooo even more fun
16:51 moritz_ uhm
16:51 moritz_ shouldn't that be 1% ?
16:51 colomon was there an Advent post last year about pointy blocks?
16:52 justatheory joined #perl6
16:52 colomon or something else I can link to?
16:52 ash_ rakudo: say 0.20 * 0.05
16:52 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0.01␤»
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16:52 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say (100% * 100%)%
16:52 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1%␤»
16:52 ash_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say 20% * 5%
16:53 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0.01␤»
16:53 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (self) ~ '%' }}  }; say (100% * 100%)%
16:53 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:53 ash_ i think the ()% is cuasing the problem
16:53 ash_ maybe
16:53 ash_ its adding in an extra /100
16:53 moritz_ oh right
16:53 ash_ maybe...
16:53 moritz_ ash_++
16:53 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (self) ~ '%' }}  }; say 20%
16:53 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:53 ash_ rakudo: say 1
16:53 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
16:53 moritz_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say 20%
16:53 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«20%␤»
16:54 ash_ rakudo: sub postfix:<%> (Real $a) { ($a / 100) but role { method Str { (100 * self) ~ '%' }}  }; say 20% * 5%
16:54 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«0.01␤»
16:54 moritz_ problem is that 20% * 5% just returns a Rat
16:54 ash_ i guess the product part lost the but role
16:54 ash_ ya
16:54 moritz_ corect
16:55 ash_ is there a way to make it retain that?
16:55 moritz_ overload the operators
16:55 moritz_ that is, first create a separate type
16:55 oha moritz_: class Perc { ... }; postfix<%> (Real $a) { Perc($a/100); }; postfix<*> (Perc $a, Perc $b) { ... }
16:55 moritz_ then overload the operators to retain that type
16:55 oha yep :)
16:56 ash_ would be neat if you didn't need to make a whole new type for that...
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16:57 ash_ if you could tell the but role to stick around some how
16:58 moritz_ such a mechanism would simplify taint mode enormously
16:59 moritz_ thread mix-ins through routine calls
16:59 moritz_ sounds like type-ish junctions
16:59 * moritz_ hopes nobody takes these thoughts to p6l
17:00 ash_ but then you'd need some way of knowing when certain operations (like * ) should create a new version of the type or merge the two its using in arithmetic
17:00 envi_ is now known as envi
17:00 ash_ because it seems to me that infix:<*> is making a new Num-ish type when it returns, but it might be interesting if it could retain properties of its two parameters
17:01 ash_ but i have no idea how you would define that merge
17:01 ash_ or how you would specify if a type needs to construct a new version of itself or not
17:01 moritz_ it's probably not a realistic expectation that such a system can exist, and work in general
17:01 moritz_ though I'd love to see one :-)
17:02 masak "Rakudo looks very good" -- http://www.wellho.net/archives/2010/12/index.html#a003077
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17:04 masak "it now looks much more likely that Perl will still be one of our major training language even in 2020." -- I don't think this is someone intentionally disparaging Perl 5, just someone who considers Perl 6 to be "saving" Perl.
17:05 justatheory left #perl6
17:07 PerlJam masak: more of "hey, Perl 6 *is* real and useful" is always good even if it comes from a strange perspective :)
17:07 timbunce joined #perl6
17:08 masak exactly.
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17:09 ash_ how do you turn things to something number like?
17:09 ash_ .Num doesn't seem it
17:09 PerlJam I'm enthused that he had no problems getting it going on a Mac.  I haven't really tried running R* on a Mac or Windows as if I were an ordinary user yet
17:09 masak also, the fix to "bad code" in the Perl 5 world is "we initiated a movement in which we increase awareness and establish best practices", whereas in the Perl 6 world it's "we fixed the language. here you go".
17:09 masak ash_: +$x
17:09 ash_ but how do you override that?
17:09 ash_ class A { method Num { 1 } };
17:09 ash_ is kinda what i mean
17:09 masak ash_: method Numeric {}
17:09 ash_ like how you can say method Str { }
17:09 ash_ oh, its Numeric
17:10 masak method Stringy {}, I think.
17:11 ash_ well, for a string you can just do Str
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17:13 masak yes, but ~$x is meant to hook into .Stringy
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17:13 masak which could in theory generate something else, such as Cat
17:14 ash_ ah, i'll start using Stringy then
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17:16 masak I'm not promising it works in Rakudo already. :)
17:17 masak rakudo: class A { method Stringy { "Stringy!" }; method Str { "Str!" } }; say ~A.new
17:17 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Str!␤»
17:17 masak maybe use .Str for now... :)
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18:16 flussence oh, no wonder I couldn't see today's advent calendar post on reddit... I took /programming/ off my list.
18:17 tadzik good evening
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18:29 hercynium masak: permalink for that url: http://www.wellho.net/archives/2010/12/perl_6_signific_1.html
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18:45 sorear good * #perl6
18:45 phenny sorear: 15:31Z <colomon> tell sorear I consistently get: "/home/colomon/tools/niecza/Niecza.proj: error : Command 'viv --noperl6lib -5 -o src/Niecza/Grammar.pmc src/Niecza/Grammar.pm6' exited with code: 127."  Running by hand works.
18:45 colomon sorear: I've given up for now.
18:45 sorear ummm
18:46 sorear that makes no sense
18:46 colomon First time it was maybe an xbuild bug.
18:46 colomon second time it seems like my entire Ubuntu install is borked.
18:46 sorear unless you have viv installed in a non-system directory and you have PATH set but not exported
18:47 colomon that could be it
18:47 rainerschuster_a is now known as rainerschuster
18:48 sorear colomon: 2.4.2 is supposed to work
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19:05 spetrea you guys like node.js ?
19:05 diakopter for what?
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19:07 tadzik Never used it, just like with Javascript itself
19:09 rainerschuster is now known as rainerschuster_a
19:17 dukeleto spetrea: i like node.js
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19:22 tadzik was there an advent calendar entry on smartmatching?
19:27 spetrea so christmas approaches fast
19:27 spetrea what does santa rakudo have for us ? :)
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19:29 tadzik spetrea: I'm now writing a post about file operations
19:29 tadzik oh, wait...
19:29 tadzik HO HO HO!
19:30 tadzik there we go
19:33 spetrea tadzik: nice :)
19:33 tadzik spetrea: did you read the ready stuff?
19:34 spetrea the ready stuff ? no ..
19:34 tadzik there's been 2 entries alredy :)
19:34 spetrea out of touch with most of Perl6 I'm afraid, not because I don't want to , because I couldn't find the time lately :(
19:34 spetrea link me up tadzik
19:34 tadzik http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/category/2010/
19:41 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ef353/perl_6_significantly_nearer_and_rakudo_looks_very/
19:43 sorear Can constants be predeclared?
19:43 tadzik takadonet: yeah, so much hate
19:44 ash_ sorear: i think you have to evaluate a constant at compile time
19:44 spetrea constants predeclared ?
19:44 spetrea what does that mean ?
19:45 sorear spetrea: I'd like to have a method on Any that returns False
19:45 sorear but False is defined in terms of Bool which is a subclass of Any
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20:49 dalek mu: 6da4b5a | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/file-operations.pod:
20:49 dalek mu: Added a new article for the 3rd
20:49 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/6da4b5ad60
20:49 dalek mu: eac019d | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/topic-brainstorming:
20:49 dalek mu: Added smartmatching to the topic ideas
20:49 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/eac019dc01
20:49 tadzik Could someone review the article for me?
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20:54 dalek mu: ce4d29c | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/file-operations.pod:
20:54 dalek mu: Fixed links
20:54 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/ce4d29cb55
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21:21 tadzik moritz_: ping
21:26 ash_ joined #perl6
21:26 tadzik phenny: tell moritz_ can I ask you to take care of my article for tomorrow? I really have to catch some sleep now, and I'll be gone for friday-sunday. Thanks in advance. Also, I'd be more than glad if you could take care of the calendar workflow for this few days as we talked
21:26 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
21:34 ash_ left #perl6
21:42 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_io_tablet
21:42 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
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21:46 masak ahoy!
21:47 TimToady shiver me timbers!
21:47 masak today I feel like I have a day off. it's the first time in a while that I'm not scheduled to blog about something.
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21:55 colomon masak: don't you have an Advent post to be working on?  ;)
21:55 masak colomon: not until the 7th.
21:57 colomon But we don't have anyone signed up yet for the 5th or the 6th, so having it done a bit early might be a very good thing indeed.
21:57 justatheory joined #perl6
21:57 masak finding someone willing to fill up slot 5 and 6 might also be a very good thing indeed. :)
21:58 colomon And I'll be looking for people to pre-read my post sometime tomorrow, I reckon.  :)
22:00 masak I'll happily do that.
22:01 masak ah! I had a potential bug for #perl6.
22:01 colomon \o/
22:01 masak tell me, what's the rule for ordering of top-level captures? put differently, what rule governs which pair of parens comes out as $0 and which comes out as $1?
22:02 sjohnson hi masak, colomon, TimToady
22:02 sjohnson pals of #perl6
22:02 masak hi pal sjohnson.
22:02 colomon masak: woah, I have no idea.
22:02 colomon I assume you mean in p6, yes?
22:02 colomon sjohnson: hi
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22:02 masak colomon: yes. the answer is easier than you think.
22:03 bluescreen is now known as Guest71264
22:03 masak rakudo: say ?("abc" ~~ /a (b) (c)/); say $0
22:03 sjohnson hehe
22:03 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Bool::True␤b␤»
22:03 colomon masak: Well, I hope it is a simple rule.  I just don't know what it is.
22:03 cosimo tadzik: ping
22:03 masak the rule is that the parentheses are numbered in order, left-to-right.
22:03 masak the top-level parens, that is.
22:04 masak parens within parens are numbered hierarchically. but that doesn't figure in this bug.
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22:04 masak but do remember the rule. left-to-right.
22:04 masak now,
22:04 masak alpha: say ?("abc" ~~ /a ~ (c) (b)/); say $0
22:04 p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«1␤b␤»
22:04 masak rakudo: say ?("abc" ~~ /a ~ (c) (b)/); say $0
22:04 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Bool::True␤b␤»
22:04 * masak submits rakudobug
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22:10 masak ah. already reported: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=77616
22:10 masak bbkr++
22:10 masak that must be why I had it written down, then.
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22:11 colomon masak: oooo, actually my confusion was the "top-level" bit -- I just ignored it and then got lost wondering how the hierarchy worked.  Of course the top-level ones are left-to-right, I've relied on that quite a bit.
22:12 masak right. I suppose it's easy to see now why the order of the captures might be reversed in /a ~ (c) (b)/ as well?
22:13 cosimo tadzik: I fixed the "yield" block in p6facter. passes tests now \o/
22:13 masak the capture numbers are assigned in a tree traversal stage after parsing the regex. for reasons that I can't think of right now, the (c) subtree is traversed before the (b) subtree.
22:13 masak um, other way around. :)
22:14 masak heh; was going to try this in GGE, but it seems GGE doesn't implement goals at all.
22:15 masak std: say "1"~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~1
22:15 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤  (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/EtqSXB8j03 line 1:␤------> [32msay "1"~~~~[33m⏏[31m~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[0m␤Parse
22:15 p6eval ..failed␤FAILED…
22:15 moritz_ .oO( GGE is aimless )
22:15 phenny moritz_: 21:26Z <tadzik> tell moritz_ can I ask you to take care of my article for tomorrow? I really have to catch some sleep now, and I'll be gone for friday-sunday. Thanks in advance. Also, I'd be more than glad if you could take care of the calendar workflow for this few days as we talked
22:15 * moritz_ -> sleep
22:15 masak moritz_: good night. dream of clearly set goals. :P
22:16 masak STD++
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22:42 sorear good * #perl6
22:42 sorear hi masak
22:43 masak hello, sorear++.
22:43 masak sorear: I'm going to write something in niecza. I don't know what yet.
22:44 sorear I closed all your bugs last night... I need to understand BUILD better for moritz
22:44 masak I saw. thank you.
22:45 masak I'm not yet working at full bug-submitting speed. and submitting TODO things isn't real bug-submitting anyway.
22:45 sorear TimToady: What is /abc/ ?  Right now, niecza thinks of /abc/ as being like method () { (self.orig.substr(self.pos, 3) eq 'abc') ?? self.MATCH(3) !! Nil }, but I think I need to do something different for BM to work
22:46 DarthGandalf left #perl6
22:46 masak BM could be a part of .substr, I guess.
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22:46 sorear and a suprisingly large amount of STD's time is being wasted on stuff like if $longstring ~~ /MY/ that BM would help a lot
22:47 masak aye.
22:47 sorear also, my implementation of $longstring ~~ /^\&/ is plain stupid
22:47 masak why does niecza has so long a startup time?
22:47 sorear masak: because Perl 5 doesn't have a working precompiler
22:48 sorear every time you run niecza_eval, Perl 5 has to compile about 100,000 lines of code between STD, the compiler, and Moose
22:48 masak ah.
22:48 masak that does explain it.
22:49 masak I thought there was a way to save Perl 5 bytecode instead of recompiling it every time.
22:49 masak but I might be wrong.
22:49 sorear there was, once
22:49 sorear but it never worked particularly well
22:49 sorear therefore nobody used it
22:49 sorear therefore it bitrotted and eventually got axed
22:49 masak ah.
22:50 sorear it was called B::C
22:51 sorear niecza_eval saves the generated .NET bytecode as obj/MAIN.exe
22:51 sorear when I do timing stuff, I usually run that directly
22:52 masak I see.
22:52 masak good to know.
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