Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:02 masak post is now live: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/07/day-7-lexical-variables/
00:09 shi left #perl6
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00:13 masak each time I see shi's quit message, it makes me think about DAGs.
00:13 masak computer science has corrupted me. :)
00:14 TimToady didn't anyone tell you that you are actually just an xkcd comic?
00:14 masak I knew it!
00:16 risou left #perl6
00:20 lichtkind can it be that rakudo is weak on quoting adverbs?
00:20 masak yes.
00:21 * Alias__ releases P5 List::MoreUtils 0.28
00:21 thundergnat joined #perl6
00:21 Alias__ The any/all/none functions now behave identically to the P6 junctions in null list cases
00:21 masak Alias__++
00:22 Alias__ Is there a 4th junction?
00:22 jnthn one
00:22 Alias__ For the complete set, List::MoreUtils has notall
00:22 jnthn (exlusive-or-ish)
00:22 Alias__ I'm not sure why, personally
00:22 masak `notall` and `one` sound like they're just one well-placed negation apart.
00:23 Alias__ I think L:MU has a history of adding more and more functions for no good reason
00:23 masak no, wait.
00:23 masak `one` means "exactly one".
00:23 Alias__ right
00:23 TimToady someone please add the missing list functions to S32-setting-library/Containers.pod, except for the ones we don't want :)
00:23 Alias__ notall is to all as none is to any
00:23 masak whoa :)
00:23 masak ...yes. :)
00:24 Alias__ Personally, I didn't think we needed it
00:24 Alias__ But I only wrote the original blog post that inspired L:MU, I didn't actually write it or maintain it until this week
00:24 TimToady how is that different from not all()
00:24 masak not at all :P
00:24 Alias__ Why have none instead of not any() ?
00:24 Alias__ Symmetric case
00:25 masak 'none' looks much nicer than 'notall'.
00:25 Alias__ The visual ugliness of notall is acknowledged, but an orthogonal issue :)
00:25 TimToady :)
00:25 masak not in #perl6 :)
00:26 * Alias__ files a community bug report
00:26 masak heh :)
00:26 thundergnat Ok, then the code I wrote earlier to implement [^^] ( RT# 65164 )at https://gist.github.com/730480 has been built and tested under linux and windows.  There's a diff at https://gist.github.com/731232 . Anyone with a commit bit like to review and/or commit?
00:26 masak wait, which community? :)
00:26 masak I just assumed it was against the Perl 5 community...
00:26 * Alias__ moves onto core'ifying YAML::Tiny
00:29 TimToady std: my @a; [^^]@a
00:29 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/CWlsQbYiqh line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a; [^^][33m⏏[31m@a[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤
00:29 p6eval ..prefix_circumfix_meta_operator␤ prefix_postfix_meta_opera…
00:29 TimToady std: my @a; [^^] @a
00:30 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
00:30 TimToady thundergnat: ^^
00:30 TimToady or should I say [^^]?
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00:33 jnthn rakudo: my @a; [+]@a
00:33 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
00:33 jnthn rakudo: my @a; [+] @a
00:33 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
00:33 jnthn std: my @a; [+]@a
00:33 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/X3s2UwqFte line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a; [+][33m⏏[31m@a[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤
00:33 p6eval ..prefix_circumfix_meta_operator␤ prefix_postfix_meta_operat…
00:34 jnthn ETOOLIBERAL
00:34 jnthn oh masak... :)
00:34 TimToady rakudo: say (1 ^^ 0 ^^ 2 ^^ 0 ^^ 3).perl
00:34 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'Undef'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/XsINn7q324␤»
00:34 * masak submits rakudobug
00:34 TimToady Undef?!?
00:34 jnthn wtf...Undef?
00:34 masak Parrot leakage.
00:34 jnthn I want a Parrot without Undef... :|
00:35 TimToady rakudo: say True if 1 ^^ 2 ^^ 3
00:35 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
00:35 TimToady rakudo: say True if 1 ^^ 0 ^^ 0
00:35 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:35 TimToady it's hard to understand the [^^] logic, which seems a bit contorted for "exactly one of these is true"
00:37 masak it's weirder than that. it's "give me the one true element in this list... unless there are more of them, in which case I want Bool::False" o.O
00:37 thundergnat Well, It's if exactly one of these is true, return that value, otherwise return Bool::False
00:38 thundergnat err, what masak said
00:38 TimToady okay, if it does that, fine; was too lazy to figger it out :)
00:39 masak yes, and that's the semantics of infix:<xor> as well.
00:39 TimToady btw, for shouldn't need ()
00:40 masak TimToady: by the way, why *does* C<[+]@a> constitute a TTIAR?
00:40 thundergnat Sorry, habit.
00:40 TimToady consistency with other listops
00:41 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet
00:41 masak TimToady: oh; I thought it was because most other listops were words, like 'say'.
00:42 masak std: [+]
00:42 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/2R_iev_A3G line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m[+][33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
00:42 masak TimToady: also, if C<[+]> is a listop, why is C<[+]> not a valid program, but needs to be C<[+] ()>?
00:42 TimToady that's a known bug, but only happens at the end of the buffer
00:42 masak std: [+]; say "OH HAI"
00:42 TimToady iirc
00:42 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
00:42 masak oh, ok.
00:42 masak I feel better now.
00:42 masak thought it was a feature.
00:43 jnthn rakudo: [+]
00:43 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "[+]"␤»
00:43 jnthn rakudo: [+];
00:43 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "[+];"␤»
00:43 jnthn aww.
00:43 jnthn rakudo: [+]; say "I am ok!"
00:43 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "[+]; say \""␤»
00:43 * masak submits rakudobug
00:43 TimToady part of the reason for requiring the space on listops is to distinguish foo() from foo (), and this applies to [+] too
00:43 * jnthn wonders if that and the other parsing bug are related.
00:43 masak TimToady: that's a good reason. thanks.
00:44 TimToady the error message could perhaps be a bit better though
00:44 TimToady not my highest priority at the moment, alas
00:45 masak *nod*
00:47 TimToady it just seems like it'd be clearer for [^^] to just count true values, and return false on the 2nd true
00:48 jnthn sleep &
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00:49 thundergnat It still has to save the value of the first true value somewhere so it can check the rest of the list to make sure it was the ONLY true value.
00:50 thundergnat It returns the value that evaluates to true, not just true
00:50 TimToady right, I keep forgetting that :)
00:50 TimToady premature senility, I don't doubt
00:50 thundergnat join the crowd
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00:52 diakopter speaking of clearer error messages, may I suggest considering one for /(?:x)/
00:53 TimToady std: /(?:x)/
00:53 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Quantifier quantifies nothing at /tmp/VZtH9ulToV line 1:␤------> [32m/(?:[33m⏏[31mx)/[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
00:53 TimToady looks like a good message to me :P
00:53 TimToady or are you thinking of something more along the lines of "This is Perl 6, duh!"
00:54 diakopter I guess I was thinking of p5
00:54 TimToady what would be bad is if we made (?:x) actually mean something in P6 :)
00:57 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
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01:04 * masak sleeps
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01:26 lichtkind masak: o/
01:26 lichtkind karma: Herbert Breunung
01:26 lichtkind karma Herbert Breunung
01:26 aloha Herbert Breunung has karma of 193.
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01:26 lichtkind :( i thought i lost my karma
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01:51 lichtkind parrot: my $a = q////;
01:52 lichtkind rakudo: my $a = q////;
01:52 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my $a = q/"␤»
01:52 lichtkind std: my $a = q////;
01:52 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/wHVKWIY72s line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a = q////[33m⏏[31m;[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
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01:52 lichtkind std: my $a = q/\//;
01:52 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
01:52 lichtkind std: my $a = q|\||;
01:52 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
01:53 lichtkind rakudo: my $a = q|\||;
01:53 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
01:53 lichtkind rakudo: my $a = q|\||; $a
01:53 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
01:53 lichtkind std: my $a = q|\||; say $a
01:53 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
01:53 LaVolta morning #perl6
01:53 lichtkind moin
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03:51 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_basics_tablet
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03:59 rjbs moritz_: p6 advent day 3: s/sp,e/some/
04:26 sorear good * #perl6
04:31 diakopter hi
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06:36 sorear How should CLS Events be exposed to Perl 6?
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07:09 moritz_ good morning
07:11 moritz_ rjbs: updated, thanks. I don't know which cat walked on my keyboard, because I don't have one :-)
07:12 sorear hello moritz_
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07:14 moritz_ oh hai sorear
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07:20 * moritz_ -> commute
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08:02 moritz_ wow, that was exhausting
08:02 moritz_ biking through the snow sludge
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08:14 finanalyst jnthn: ping
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09:19 * sorear out
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10:16 masak oh hai, #perl6
10:17 jnthn o/
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10:26 masak three days to Big Announcement.
10:28 finanalyst good localtime to you. What Big Announcement?
10:28 masak finanalyst: the one I'll announce in three days...
10:29 masak it's something Perl 6-related.
10:30 finanalyst masak: that is sneaky and highly commercial to do linked advertising
10:30 finanalyst makes everyone want to know what it is without knowing what it is
10:31 masak finanalyst: be glad you caught on now, and not a month ago, when I started teasing :P
10:31 finanalyst masak: I have not been trolling this forum for several months due to $problems_at_work
10:32 masak sorry to hear that.
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10:47 hdanak masak: is this announcement rakudo related?
10:47 masak hdanak: I'm not authorized to say.
10:48 masak hdanak: if you want clues, there are a few strewn out in the backlog.
10:48 oha masak: it remember me a game... "is it an animal?" ... "does have 4 legs?"
10:48 masak hdanak: on 2010-11-10, 2010-11-20, and 2010-11-30.
10:48 masak oha: "20 questions"?
10:48 oha but you must reply only with Bool::True or Bool::False
10:48 hdanak masak: meh, i can wait 3 days :)
10:49 masak I'm happy I've reached at least two people with the news today :)
10:49 masak just remember: you'll like it, so you might as well be excited now. :)
10:49 hdanak btw, i was wondering what the rationale is behind changing the ternary operator in perl6 to ?? !! ?
10:50 masak hdanak: many things.
10:51 masak hdanak: it started out with the assumption the ? and : were too important as single-char operators to be claimed by this relatively unusual construct.
10:51 masak (more unusual than, say, && or ++)
10:52 masak hdanak: then it was ?? :: for a while, so just a doubling of the characters.
10:52 masak but the :: caused problems with package-related things, so ideas were thrown around and we landed on ?? !!.
10:52 hdanak i see
10:52 hdanak kinda makes sense, i guess i can live with that
10:53 masak it has a nice "strange concistency" about it, I think.
10:53 masak '!' usually means "not" -- here it kinda means "else".
10:53 hdanak especially since !! is kinda like an "error" case
10:53 masak yes.
10:53 hdanak i'm just waiting for rakudo to be fast enough to use perl6 instead of perl5
10:54 masak also, ?? !! is related to boolean things, and many other such operators have double characters" || && // ^^
10:54 hdanak however much I love perl5, some things (mostly fixed by perl6 grammars) feel like jury-rigging in perl5 even though it may be the preferred way to do it
10:54 masak hdanak: well, "fast enough" depends on what one is doing. for some things it's already fast enough. for others, it's definitely not.
10:55 Juerd masak: Did :: really cause problems with namespaces? I thought the switch to !! was purely because of the ?-! contrast that already existed in two other places.
10:55 masak "jury-rigging". I like that description.
10:55 hdanak well, the constant factor is too high... doing anything with >> 1000 elements
10:55 hdanak especially the regexes
10:55 masak Juerd: I'm not 100% sure, but I seem to remember that (collision with pachages) being the rationale.
10:56 Juerd :: isn't really an operator, is it?
10:56 Juerd Whitespace would be the disambiguator
10:56 masak indeed.
10:57 masak though this was many years ago, so it might have been before TTIAR was formalized.
10:57 masak I dunno.
10:57 hdanak i find the whole dot-notation ugly though...
10:57 masak hdanak: huh. I don't.
10:58 hdanak yeah, mostly because it's no longer concatenation
10:58 masak the ?? !! construct also went through a number of changes in precedence.
10:58 hdanak by the way, is [+] folding operator rfold or lfold?
10:59 masak hdanak: as far as I know, you're not supposed to have to care.
10:59 hdanak hmm
10:59 hdanak it could matter if your operator isn't commutative
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10:59 hdanak well, no
10:59 hdanak it matters in haskell for infinite lists at least :)
10:59 masak aye.
11:00 masak I'm going to mumble "sane default" here and leave it at that. :)
11:00 masak the spec doesn't say, as far as I know.
11:00 jnthn It looks at the ops assoc trait, iirc.
11:00 masak oh!
11:00 masak of course!
11:01 jnthn Netcraft^WActions.pm probably confirms it. :)
11:01 masak :)
11:04 hdanak the real question is... how will vim know how to highlight perl6 vs perl5?
11:06 flussence same way it can figure out what dialect a .sh file is in...
11:07 flussence put some more lines into the gigantic content-sniffing file
11:08 flussence (which it already has in 7.3 btw)
11:25 tadzik o/
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11:59 hdanak flussence: hey, do you know how I can change modes from the perl/vim interface (embedded perl interpreter in vim)?
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12:29 flussence hdanak: never used it, sorry
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12:45 finanalyst perl6 reports that you can set --trace=s but what values of s are possible?
12:46 moritz_ small integers
12:48 finanalyst different values of -t from 0 to 15 seem to have no effect
12:49 moritz_ then the option is broken
12:49 moritz_ instead you can try
12:50 moritz_ parrot --trace=1 perl6.pbc <scriptname>
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13:01 takadonet morning all
13:01 moritz_ g'morning
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13:39 smash hello everyone
13:39 takadonet smash: yo
13:39 smash hey
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13:43 tadzik hello
13:47 masak the greetings-to-code ratio is too high today :P
13:50 tadzik so, C++ anyone? :)
13:50 * tadzik fighting with dynamic linking
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14:04 oha masak: otoh, i feel that the thanks-to-code is too low in general. so ty :)
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14:05 * masak feels warm all over :)
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14:07 donri http://try.rakudo.org/  fails to evaluate any code
14:09 takadonet donri: thanks for the heads up
14:19 colomon tadzik: just working on my $work plans (mostly in C++) for the next year.
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15:47 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ehmlw/perl_6_advent_calendar_day_7_lexical_variables/
15:48 masak takadonet++
15:48 masak I must admit to not understanding this view of programming: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eh462/ada_surely_you_jest_mr_pythonman/c1832zl
15:48 masak I hear the same about Haskell sometimes. "the only errors that got through were design or logic errors!"
15:49 moritz_ ... or endless recursion
15:49 masak as if there is a big threatening heap of errors being avoided because the compiler is draconian.
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15:50 moritz_ well, there's some kind of oversight error that the compiler catches
15:50 masak I'd say the risk of committing stupid logic or design errors is about as large with languages that are draconian on the type level.
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15:50 masak but the user feels better, perhaps because he *likes* getting whipped.
15:51 colomon I'm almost inclined to say the risk is worse, because of the danger of contorting your logic to make the type system happy.
15:51 flussence false sense of security...
15:51 moritz_ masocism programming?
15:51 masak there's a similar type of discipline that I *do* like: getting test failures. I value those much more than I value stupid type casting errors.
15:52 masak also, I'm not dismissing type systems and strong typing (whatever that means) altogether. for example, I consider it good documentation.
15:52 flussence when it's done right :)
15:52 masak but yeah, "false sense of security" sums it up. typing is not a panacea.
15:52 masak I believe moritz_++ wrote a blog post about that once.
15:53 moritz_ did I?
15:53 shiduke is now known as sidek
15:53 * moritz_ can't remember :-)
15:53 flussence (I screw up simple things in postgres often...)
15:53 moritz_ speaking of blogs
15:53 * moritz_ looks up who's next
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15:53 colomon There is no panacea, period.
15:53 moritz_ tadzik++ is up for tomorrow's advent calendar
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15:54 moritz_ no volunteer for Dec 9th so far
15:54 masak moritz_: ah, I was thinking of this: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/misc/dbc-vs-tests.html
15:54 moritz_ I've started on an article about the flip/reverse/invert distinction
15:54 masak c'mon, people! volunteer for the Advent Calendar! it's fun!
15:54 moritz_ if nobody wants the day after tomorrow, I could chime in
15:55 moritz_ but I hope others do it, because I've already written 2 posts
15:55 masak moritz_: oh, I'd better help you write that one, I already got some ideas what to write :)
15:55 moritz_ masak: that post was from a slightly different angle
15:55 masak moritz_: yes, I see that now.
15:56 moritz_ masak: we can colaborate, and publish as masritz or mosak :-)
15:56 masak ooh
15:57 masak masitz
15:57 masak or mohawk.
15:57 colomon mohawk!
15:58 mtk left #perl6
15:58 masak I've long wanted to co-present with someone on a YAPC-like conf.
15:58 masak would be great fun.
15:58 masak even if it's just a lightning talk.
15:58 moritz_ indeed
15:59 [particle] one mimes the sigils while the other reads the code?
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16:00 masak [particle]: I don't know about you, but I tend not to read the code out loud during my presentations.
16:00 [particle] heck, no.
16:01 [particle] there must be an abbott and costello-like routine for perl6 waiting to happen.  i don't know what it is, though.
16:01 PerlJam you could each simultaneously give the same lightning talk in different languages.
16:01 finanalyst joined #perl6
16:01 moritz_ ... and the interference pattern results in a third language :-)
16:02 masak moritz_: "While waiting for the Catalyst dependencies to install, I decided on a whim to try out Mojolicious, a new-ish web framework." -- is that unintentional or intentional biting criticism? :P
16:02 moritz_ masak: it's just facts
16:02 masak moritz_: I laughed out loud reading it :)
16:02 moritz_ :-)
16:03 moritz_ I did type 'cpanm Catalyst', and after a few depencies I realizied it would take some time
16:03 PerlJam moritz_: have you ever used Dist::Zilla?
16:03 kanishka left #perl6
16:03 moritz_ and since I hang out in #perlde together with sri I did consider mojolicious
16:03 moritz_ PerlJam: yes, but not voluntarily
16:04 PerlJam I was joking on #dzil about it having almost as many dependencies as Catalyst and rjbs pointed out that dzil actually has *more* dependencies than Catalyst.
16:05 phio left #perl6
16:05 moritz_ I'm quite sure it does
16:05 moritz_ back then I didn't have a custom perl instllation
16:05 moritz_ but actually built debian packages out of all perl modules I wanted to install
16:06 moritz_ installing dzil was a pain, mildly put
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16:11 * tadzik hopes he'd be able to write the post before the midnight tomorrow
16:13 moritz_ tadzik: if it looks like you won't be able to, just tell us, somebody might be able to chime in
16:13 moritz_ (like me, perhaps)
16:15 masak I'm ready to help, too.
16:15 tadzik moritz_: I think I'm gonna make it
16:15 tadzik even sooner, if someone could gimme a hand with C++ and dynamic linking :)
16:15 tadzik (brb)
16:16 masak heh. I searched the web for "inferior runloop", and came up with a lot of Parrot links. is this term specific to Parrot?
16:16 masak rakudo: $a
16:16 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$a' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/VoYqtvzkK9:22)␤»
16:16 masak might I suggest we could do better than '<anonymous>' there?
16:17 masak actually, I don't see how 'in <anonymous>' would ever serve me very much.
16:17 masak might as well say 'in <I don't know>'
16:17 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = sub { $a }
16:17 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$a' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/VK0rAlHnyo:22)␤»
16:17 masak ok, I accept that case. :)
16:18 colomon would you prefer "Symbol '$a' not predeclared (/tmp/VK0rAlHnyo:22)"?
16:18 moritz_ hm
16:18 masak rakudo: sub foo { say "OH HAI"; { $a } }
16:18 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$a' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/laLazHlhuR:22)␤»
16:18 moritz_ 'anonymous' doesn't even occur in src/Perl6/BacktracePrinter.pm
16:18 masak colomon: I'd prefer a line number and a file.
16:19 colomon you've got them
16:19 colomon "/tmp/VK0rAlHnyo:22"
16:19 masak right. I see them now. :)
16:19 masak yes, so just get rid of 'in <anonymous>', at least when we're not actually in something.
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16:23 moritz_ urk
16:23 moritz_ it comes from PAST::Compiler it seems
16:23 masak o.O
16:24 flussence s/'in <anonymous>'/'at top level scope'/ ?
16:24 moritz_ flussence: that would be wrong in  sub f() { my $x = sub { $undeclared }}
16:24 masak indeed.
16:27 moritz_ rakudo: $x; BEGIN { say "OH NOEZ" }
16:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/w4j0Lkezm2:22)␤»
16:27 moritz_ rakudo: $x, BEGIN { say "OH NOEZ" }
16:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«OH NOEZ␤===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/aSwDxo0xfj:22)␤»
16:27 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:27 moritz_ see, the check for declaredness of variables is too late
16:27 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:27 moritz_ it's at the codegen stage
16:27 moritz_ not at parse time
16:28 moritz_ (that's because we don't have the lexpad at compile time around, a fact which I've bemoaned many times now)
16:28 * moritz_ doesn't feel motivated to submit rakudobug, but wouldn't stop masak from doing so, just for the lulz
16:31 masak tough one.
16:31 Patterner left #perl6
16:31 masak I've no mind to submit bugs that just sit there, not getting fixed...
16:32 masak better submit too few bugs than too many, that's what I always say.
16:32 moritz_ well, it will get fixed at some point[tm]
16:32 colomon #phasers in 2.5?
16:32 * moritz_ will likely miss it
16:32 * masak will try to be there
16:32 moritz_ but yes, 2.5h sounds correct
16:32 moritz_ but I haven't done much 6y anyway, except for the advent calendar
16:32 smash colomon: sorry, didn't have time to share the benchmarking scripts, but it's on my TODO list, sorry
16:33 colomon smash: no worries
16:35 masak moritz_++ # guiding the advent calendar along
16:36 masak I'm somewhat surprized that I didn't get one single reaction on my "this week in Perl 6" idea. am I the only one who misses those weekly updates?
16:36 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:36 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:37 colomon I miss them, but I'm a little scared at what they'd show at the moment...
16:37 takadonet masak: what was the idea?
16:37 masak colomon: scared? how so? there's lots going on.
16:38 moritz_ masak: sorry for not reacting. I thought a lot about that, and didn't want to infect you with my pessimism
16:38 PerlJam masak: I think we're just in a down-phase for development (mostly), so people don't get very excited by "this week in Perl 6"
16:38 moritz_ PerlJam: I kinda disagree. Much interesting development happens in modules these days
16:38 moritz_ PerlJam: like cosimo++ porting Factor to Perl 6
16:38 masak takadonet: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-12-05#i_3059185
16:39 colomon masak: There's a good bit going on, but it's all off in its own little corners.  And Rakudo development has more-or-less stopped.
16:39 masak I would *love* to see a weeky-updates effort get going. I think it would be excellent PR, even *within* the ranks of Perl 6.
16:39 masak I'm prepared to put in quite a bit of work to get it going, as long as I'm not entirely alone.
16:39 PerlJam moritz_: then I guess "this week in Perl 6" would be an awesome thing to have so that these things get publicity :)
16:40 colomon Factor?
16:40 masak colomon: the previous iterations of the weekly updates focused much on p6c and p6l.
16:40 PerlJam colomon: facter.  I've got the post book marked, but I have no idea what it is.
16:40 masak colomon: nowadays, we could also focus on IRC, newly released modules, non-Rakudo implementations, etc.
16:40 masak nom &
16:40 masak left #perl6
16:43 dukeleto moritz_: who is porting Factor to Perl 6?
16:43 * dukeleto had plans to port Factor to Parrot quite a while ago, but never got around to it
16:43 PerlJam dukeleto: http://my.opera.com/cstrep/blog/2010/12/06/facter-ported-to-perl-6
16:44 dukeleto whoa, that is "facter" not Factor
16:44 PerlJam right.
16:44 dukeleto Factor is a stack-based programming language
16:44 tadzik (also, it doesn't work)
16:45 dukeleto tadzik: facter or Factor doesn't work?
16:45 tadzik dukeleto: facter the Perl6 module
16:46 tadzik at least for me, I remember cosimo fixing it, but it managed to eat 2.5 GBs of RAM trying to get my uname -a output
16:46 * colomon would love to see Factor the language ported to Parrot
16:46 tadzik so it still needs some love I guess
16:47 dukeleto colomon: i plan on taking another crack at it soon. I will be sure to let you know when I do.
16:47 colomon Actually, even just a working Forth might well be useful.
16:47 dukeleto colomon: I am friends with the guy who started Factor. He is a cool guy. I would always chat with him, comparing Perl 6 and Factor concepts
16:48 colomon dukeleto: I've only played with a bit, but it seemed very cool.
16:54 * moritz_ apologizes for confusing Facter and Factor
16:55 dukeleto moritz_: you will be appropriately punished ;)
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16:55 dukeleto moritz_: they are only 1 letter off, I can totally understand
16:56 * tadzik 's gravatar is now a real tadzik, not a dog
16:56 tadzik dukeleto: especially, when facter is port of factor :)
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17:03 dukeleto tadzik: oy vey
17:04 dukeleto tadzik: my parrot port of Factor is called "Kea"
17:04 dukeleto tadzik: it is a Parrot from New Zealand that occasionally eats the kidneys of sheep
17:05 dukeleto tadzik: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kea
17:05 TimToady dead ones, I hope
17:06 TimToady .oO(I vant to suck your kidney!)
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17:12 colomon TimToady!   \o/
17:14 TimToady ·⍤Ö(Someone could do an advent panegyric on Camelia)
17:16 TimToady maybe it goes with the community entry
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17:34 thundergnat rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3); .say for @a, *;
17:34 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤Whatever()<0x726fa20>␤»
17:35 thundergnat rakudo: my @a = (1,2,3); .say for @a, @a[*-1] xx *;
17:35 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«(timeout)␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3␤3��
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17:36 thundergnat Hmm  SO3 says those should be equivalent.
17:37 * takadonet looks at TimToady
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17:39 colomon None of the automatic , * extension stuff is implemented in Rakudo yet, is it?
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17:40 thundergnat Possibly not. It doesn't work as specced yet at least.
17:42 [Coke] masak; (this week) those are a HUGE PITA to produce.
17:43 [Coke] and Planet Perl Six gives me about 1/2 of what TWIP did.
17:43 [Coke] moral: blog more?\
17:44 * moritz_ would like an interface to submit individual posts from foreign blogs to planetsix
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17:48 [Coke] moritz_: Low tech: create a new blog that just refers to those articles you wish to republish.
17:48 wes_ joined #perl6
17:49 [Coke] allison's blog often has entries that are just pointers to other articles.
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18:17 smash colomon: go to http://gil.di.uminho.pt/users/smash/rakudo-bench.html, scroll down to end of page, you have a link to the script that i use to run the benchmarks
18:17 smash colomon: a very simple script
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18:19 tadzik smash: why so many __underscores in the code?
18:21 [Coke] I read that as "Private"
18:21 smash tadzik: auxiliary functions that could be implemented in different ways
18:21 smash and most probably aren't done in the best way
18:21 smash and should be replaced
18:22 colomon \o/
18:23 smash the main purpose was to being able to add new scripts or rakudo versions without having to change the script
18:23 smash s/add new scripts/add new benchmark scripts/
18:26 PerlJam smash: where's the standard deviation?  ;)
18:26 smash PerlJam: somewhere in my TODO list ;)
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18:39 thundergnat rakudo: my ($a, $b); say $a ~= 'yay! ', $b = $b ~ 'oh noez!'; # why the difference? Can't find a relevant ticket in RT
18:39 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«yay! Any()oh noez!␤»
18:40 tadzik oh funny
18:40 tadzik rakudo: my $b; $b.Str.perl.say
18:40 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«"Any()<0x61740b0>"␤»
18:40 tadzik that's fixable, no?
18:41 thundergnat I can deal with undefined in sring context being Any(), I was just asking why ~= seems to suppress it.
18:42 thundergnat Though personally I would prefer '' to Any()
18:43 colomon huh
18:43 tadzik same here
18:43 colomon rakudo: my $b; $b.Str.WHAT.say
18:43 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Str()␤»
18:43 colomon rakudo: my $b; $b.Str.perl.say
18:43 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«"Any()<0x619c0b0>"␤»
18:44 colomon that seems like a bug, no?
18:44 colomon rakudo: my $b; $b.Rat.WHAT.say
18:44 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Method 'Rat' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/k69x95Ldv0␤»
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18:57 colomon #phasers T-3 minutes
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19:40 dalek mu: 78644f2 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/topic-brainstorming:
19:40 dalek mu: [advent] reorganize brainstorm file: move already-used topic to own section
19:40 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/78644f2b51
19:40 dalek mu: cd6a87e | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/different-names-for-different-things.pod:
19:40 dalek mu: [advent] add a post about flip/reverse/invert
19:40 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/cd6a87eb7d
19:40 moritz_ masak: see latest push, comments welcome
19:40 * masak looks
19:41 * masak changes the deplorable use.perl link to strangelyconsistent.org instead
19:41 masak http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-taming-of-the-newbie-a-comedy-on-irc
19:42 daxim oooo bubbles
19:42 tylercurtis joined #perl6
19:42 masak yes, sorry about those :)
19:42 daxim this web software looks homegrown
19:42 masak it's Perl 6 software :)
19:43 daxim まさか
19:43 masak oh yes.
19:43 masak and it wasn't even that hard to build.
19:43 masak I'll release it any day now.
19:44 masak (but it's not the Big Announcement) :)
19:44 tylercurtis "Big Announcement"?
19:44 masak yes. three days to go.
19:44 plobsing left #perl6
19:44 tylercurtis Good {now}, #perl6.
19:44 masak tylercurtis: oh hai
19:44 masak on Friday, there'll be a Big Announcement, by me. on my blog.
19:44 masak about something Perl 6-related.
19:45 moritz_ "that's it, I quit"
19:45 diakopter heh
19:45 masak まさか
19:45 daxim hey, that's my catchphrase
19:45 masak ;)
19:45 daxim rate this announcement on a sliding scale, where time-travel debugging is considered "cool"
19:46 masak moritz_: I'd like to add, at the end, the suggested general idiom for actually inverting a hash. it's not obvious.
19:47 masak daxim: I'm not at liberty to give you such a measure. all I can tell you is that I know what it is, and *I'm* excited :)
19:47 daxim alright
19:47 * daxim subscribes the feed
19:49 masak :D
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20:00 sorear good * #perl6
20:00 masak \o
20:00 dalek mu: 928c322 | masak++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/different-names-for-different-things.pod:
20:00 dalek mu: [advent] changed URL to a cuter blog
20:00 dalek mu:
20:00 dalek mu: Same content, but nicer to look at.
20:00 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/928c32282d
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20:17 sorear masak: it's not "invert %hash"?
20:18 masak sorear: well, yes. but you're also supposed to .push the result of that onto the new hash.
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20:20 dalek mu: 99c3194 | masak++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/different-names-for-different-things.pod:
20:20 dalek mu: [advent] added .invert use case
20:20 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/99c31947b7
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20:26 moritz_ masak: should we volunteer for Thursday?
20:30 masak sure, why not?
20:31 masak at least when we have ascertained that we're not preventing someone else from volunteering :)
20:31 moritz_ well, I've been asking for volunteers all day
20:31 masak the lurkers are inattentive today... :)
20:32 moritz_ still 10 open slots
20:32 PerlJam I'd like to see an advent post from TimToady if he is willing.
20:33 dalek mu: ab95c80 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/ (2 files):
20:33 dalek mu: [advent] volunteer us for Dec 09
20:33 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/ab95c800dc
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20:43 moritz_ std: my $
20:43 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
20:43 daxim left #perl6
20:43 masak std: my ($, $, $, $, @, %, &)
20:43 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
20:44 moritz_ std: OUTER::$x
20:44 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/Gm5Dn3Vd8F line 1:␤------> [32mOUTER::[33m⏏[31m$x[0m␤    expecting any of:␤   POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤   statement modifier loop␤Parse
20:44 p6eval ..failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
20:44 masak $OUTER::x
20:46 rokoteko how far implemented are the feed operators?
20:46 jnthn In Rakudo, they're pretty basic at the moment.
20:46 rokoteko rakudo: my @array = <a, b, c, d>; my @src = 0, 1, 2, 3; @src ==> @array[@(*)] ==> my @dest; @dest.perl.say
20:46 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 3 passed, 3 expected␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
20:46 rokoteko jnthn: ok.
20:46 jnthn Right, the @(*) target syntax isn't yet done.
20:46 jnthn Do put it into perspective, what we have now was written in about an hour. :)
20:47 jnthn *To
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20:54 sorear rakudo: my @array = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; my $sl = [1,2,3]; say @array[~$sl]
20:54 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2␤»
20:54 sorear rakudo: my @array = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; my $sl = [1,2,3]; say @array[$sl]
20:54 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«234␤»
20:55 TimToady that seems kinda bogus
20:56 TimToady I would expect it to say 4
20:56 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet
20:56 TimToady rakudo: my @array = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5; my $sl = [1,2,3]; say @array[+$sl]
20:56 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«4␤»
20:56 TimToady like that
20:56 * jnthn is surprised that is flatterning in there.
20:56 jnthn er, flattening.
20:57 sorear TimToady: rakudo decides whether to slice or index based on $index ~~ Positional
20:57 jnthn oh
20:57 TimToady flatterning will get you knowwhere
20:57 jnthn It's not about flattening.
20:57 jnthn sorear: Right.
20:57 jnthn Which makes sense I guess...
20:57 tylercurtis rakudo: say ~[1, 2, 3];
20:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
20:57 tylercurtis rakudo: say +~[1, 2, 3]
20:57 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
20:57 sorear I am wondering if I can get away with using the list flag instead
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20:58 sorear so @foo[@array] slices but @foo[$array] won't necessarily
20:58 TimToady I don't want list contexts to appear to be flattening $ vars
20:59 jnthn TimToady: Aye, though here it looks more like it's about multi-dispatch semantics than context.
20:59 jnthn TimToady: I suspect that the signature is @slice
20:59 sorear yes
21:00 sorear which is a Positional constraint
21:00 jnthn Right.
21:00 TimToady well, it's a hack around the fact that rakudo doesn't actually do lol yet
21:00 jnthn We do omg and wtf quite well, though. :P
21:00 TimToady in @a[foo;bar;baz] the dimensions are supposed to be in list context
21:01 TimToady which means @a[@b] should flatten, and @a[$b] never should
21:02 sorear Should @a[$b] and @a[$b,] be the same?
21:02 TimToady yes
21:02 TimToady both are slices of one element
21:03 sorear What does '@a[0] = 1,2,3' do?
21:03 sorear Assign 1 to @a[0] and throw away 2,3?
21:05 * sorear had been thinkinging that @a[0,] = ... was list assignment and @a[0] = ... was scalar
21:05 sorear much as $a, = ... is list assignement and $a = ... is scalar
21:07 PerlJam $a, = ...  looks like some sort of error to me.
21:07 masak std: $a, = ...
21:07 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/F9RgxBS5AW line 1:␤------> [32m$a[33m⏏[31m, = ...[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/F9RgxBS5AW line 1:␤------> [32m$a, [33m⏏[31m= ...[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01
21:07 p6eval ..120m…
21:07 masak std: my $a; $a, = ...
21:07 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead at /tmp/h3m2nOYaYe line 1:␤------> [32mmy $a; $a, [33m⏏[31m= ...[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
21:08 masak PerlJam: you're right.
21:08 justatheory joined #perl6
21:11 tylercurtis sorear: According to S04, "However, anything more complicated than that (including parentheses and subscripted expressions) forces parsing as list assignment instead."
21:11 tylercurtis where that refers to a scalar variable with optional traits, declarators, and type constraints.
21:11 TimToady sorear: back in the pugs heyday we used to try to figure out whether there was only one container on the left, and it turned into madness, so @a[0] = is now always list assignment
21:12 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_block_tablet
21:13 risou left #perl6
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21:16 tadzik hey, is someone rich of time and ideas?
21:16 sorear tylercurtis: I think parsing as a list assignment and executing as a list assignment are two different thngs
21:16 TimToady it's like the ... $endpoint decision; a little less dwimmy in some cases, but much much easier to explain
21:17 tadzik I'm afraid that if I'll be able to publish something tomorrow, it'll come up after 20:00 or something
21:17 PerlJam tadzik: that's okay.
21:17 icwiener left #perl6
21:18 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
21:18 tadzik PerlJam: If I'll make it. I'm terribly tired, and have 3 Big Things for the Uni on Thursday
21:19 sorear TimToady: if $obj.attribute = 5; is list assignment, how does it execute?
21:19 icwiener joined #perl6
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21:19 icwiener joined #perl6
21:20 sorear TimToady: does it put 5 into flattening list context, then assign the first value out to the attribute?
21:20 tadzik but if late hours are ok, then I'm okay as well
21:20 thundergnat rakudo: say 0 || 0 || 1; say 0 || || 1; #   O_o perhaps related to http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=72828 ?
21:20 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤Capture()<0x77dd630>␤»
21:21 thundergnat rakudo say 0 |||| 1;
21:22 thundergnat duh
21:22 thundergnat rakudo: say 0 |||| 1;
21:22 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Capture()<0x6b099d0>␤»
21:23 thundergnat std: 0 |||| 1;
21:23 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
21:24 thundergnat O_o
21:24 flussence wtf?
21:25 jnthn thundergnat: prefix:<|>
21:25 jnthn Is how capture formed.
21:25 PerlJam it would really help if there were something that parenthesized expressions I t hink
21:26 sorear std: ||0
21:26 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
21:26 sorear std: 1 ~~~~ 0
21:26 p6eval std a194beb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤  (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/VQjCJMBuMu line 1:␤------> [32m1 ~~~~[33m⏏[31m 0[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
21:27 PerlJam rakudo: say 0 +-+-+-+ 1
21:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«-1␤»
21:27 PerlJam (not at all intuitive :)
21:27 sorear niecza: say 0 +-+-+-+ 1
21:27 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«-1␤»
21:28 sorear who says p6 sucks for obfu?
21:33 gbacon joined #perl6
21:33 TimToady sorear: it gives the list to whatever container was returned by the method call, and the container decides how many things to take off the list
21:34 TimToady p6 doesn't suck at obfu, it is relatively (compared to P5) suckier at golf
21:34 kjeldahl left #perl6
21:35 sorear I see
21:36 TimToady ...said the blind man, as he picked up his hammer and saw.
21:36 sorear I have seen inconsistant statements about ($x,) === $x
21:36 TimToady === doesn't do lists
21:37 masak but it's not syntactically illegal, is it?
21:38 TimToady it's fine syntactically, but unless $x happens to contain its own outer parcel, it'll be always be false
21:38 sorear wanted: unambiguous metasyntactic equality operator
21:39 sorear put another way, after my $x; my @a; @a[0] := $x;   is  @a[0]  ($x,)  or  $x ?
21:39 sorear you called it a one-element slice earlier
21:40 TimToady for assignment, not for binding
21:40 masak how can I make $x contain its own outer parcel? :)
21:40 TimToady beats me
21:41 TimToady but you can preannounce it if you like
21:41 masak ouch :)
21:41 masak TimToady: maybe I'll tell everyone except you on Friday... :P
21:42 TimToady anyway, after @a[0] := $x, it is certainly the case that @a[0] === $x
21:43 TimToady and @a[0] =:= $x should also be true, methinks
21:43 sorear so slicing should behave like &return and only create a parcel if !=1 element is requested?
21:44 TimToady I believe so
21:44 TimToady and if you can prove it at compile time, you can get rid of the list altogether
21:44 TimToady bypassing the slicer
21:45 TimToady .[$x] should be considered sufficient proof, hence my expectation of 4 above
21:46 * sorear wonders
21:47 sorear niecza: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5; say @a[[1,2,3]]
21:47 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«4␤»
21:47 sorear er
21:47 sorear niecza: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5; say @a[~[1,2,3]]
21:47 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Numeric in class Str␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at  line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 5)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE G1034ANONC @ 1)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE module-SAFE @ 29)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE mainline @ 1)␤  at  line 0 (boot @ 1)␤  at  line
21:47 p6eval ..0 (Ex…
21:47 TimToady sugoi
21:48 sorear (1) terible, dreadful (2) amazing, great
21:48 sorear what a word.
21:49 ruoso left #perl6
21:50 diakopter "awesome"
21:50 tadzik phenny: "sugoi"?
21:50 phenny tadzik: "sugoi" (fil to en, translate.google.com)
21:51 sorear tadzik: 3: 凄い (すごい) (adj-i) (1) (uk) terrible; dreadful; (2) amazing (e.g.of
21:51 sorear strength); great (e.g. of skills); wonderful; terrific; (3) to a great extent; vast(in
21:51 sorear numbers); (P)
21:51 sorear from the xjdic file
21:51 thundergnat left #perl6
21:52 tadzik interesting
21:53 jdv79 so, i use autodie; then use autodie qw(read); because my class defined a read sub.  and it still gets wiped out.
21:53 jdv79 wrong perl chan. p5. sorry.
21:56 mtk left #perl6
21:58 sorear TimToady: so, in my $x = [], there is an Array object and a Scalar object.  You hold them to be fundamentally the same sort of thing?
22:03 TimToady not sure what you're asking
22:03 dalek ecosystem: 230187c | (Timothy Totten)++ | projects.list:
22:03 dalek ecosystem: Removed perlite6, as the project has been deleted.
22:03 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/230187c29f
22:07 jfried left #perl6
22:09 diakopter nqp: say $/
22:09 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say $/"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 635 (src/cheats/hll-compiler.pir:206)␤»
22:09 mkramer left #perl6
22:09 diakopter nqp: say($/)
22:09 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Symbol '$/' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:109)␤»
22:09 diakopter niecza: say($/)
22:09 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«␤»
22:10 diakopter niecza: say($/[0])
22:10 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«␤»
22:10 diakopter niecza: say(+$/)
22:10 p6eval niecza f30c13c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Numeric in class Any␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at  line 0 (MAIN mainline @ 0)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE G1034ANONC @ 1)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE module-SAFE @ 29)␤  at  line 992 (SAFE mainline @ 1)␤  at  line 0 (boot @ 1)␤  at  line
22:10 p6eval ..0 (Ex…
22:10 diakopter sorear: where does it declare $/
22:10 diakopter (apparently it doesn't, in nqp)
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22:21 sorear diakopter: $/ is like a contextual; it doesn't need to be declared
22:22 sorear at runtime $/ searches up the outer stack for the first frame with a most recent regex match
22:23 sorear TimToady: in an expression of the form @a ,= @b, how does &infix_postfix_meta_operator:<=> know what kind of assignment to do?
22:24 sorear For that matter, what kind of assignment does &infix:<=>(@a, @b) do?
22:25 plobsing joined #perl6
22:25 sorear How does &infix:<=>(@array[0], (1, 2)) know to assign only one value, while &infix:<=>($x, (1, 2)) assigns the whole parcel?
22:27 ch3ck3r joined #perl6
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22:31 * sorear out
22:31 shi joined #perl6
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22:47 masak miyagawa++ makes the same observation moritz_ did once :) -- http://twitter.com/miyagawa/status/12275270752935936
23:06 spq1 left #perl6
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23:08 BinGOs strangely mesmerising background he has there.
23:08 ch3ck3r left #perl6
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23:44 masak tell me a bit about the initial values of typed dimensionalized arrays.
23:45 masak my Int @a[10; 10]; # is it filled with Int?
23:45 masak my int @a[10; 10]; # is it filled with 0?
23:49 lichtkind is the rakudo REPL supposed to end on exception?
23:49 masak no, it's not. it's a bug, it's known, and it's been reported several times by several people.
23:49 lichtkind allright
23:52 masak followup question to those above: would it be better for 'my Int @a[10; 10]' to be filled with 0? if not, what's the shortest way to fill such an array with zeroes?
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