Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:02 jnthn zzz&
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00:38 lichtkind is there no strict in perl 6?
00:39 PerlJam lichtkind: are you asking if you can turn stricture off?
00:39 lichtkind yes
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00:56 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_basics_tablet
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01:27 [Coke] (trouble building rakudo on parrot) http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1884
01:31 [Coke] I had a typo so I wasn't actually realcleaning parrot. (I don't think I should have to realclean to get this to work, though.) ... but now that I've done a realclean and blown away the cached value, I should be able to build rakudo again. So if it comes up again - "realclean" is the answer. :P
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02:10 Miesco whats wrong with this, why wont it increment?: perl -wlE 'my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc;'
02:12 Miesco perl6: 'my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc;'
02:12 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "'my $cs = "␤»
02:12 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "ZZ9"␤    expecting term postfix or operator␤    at /tmp/7R4DrwD6my line 1, column 12␤»
02:13 colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc;
02:13 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«ZZ9␤»
02:13 colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = $cs++; say $nc; say $cs;
02:13 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«ZZ9␤AAA0␤»
02:13 colomon It does increment, as you can see.
02:13 Miesco oh
02:14 colomon you perhaps wanted
02:14 Miesco thanks!
02:14 colomon rakudo: my $cs = 'ZZ9'; my $nc = ++$cs; say $nc; say $cs;
02:14 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«AAA0␤AAA0␤»
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02:30 Miesco How do you convert a string to an array reference?
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02:37 colomon In what sense?
02:38 colomon rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".split(" ")
02:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
02:38 colomon rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".split(" ").perl
02:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g")␤»
02:38 colomon or
02:38 colomon rakudo: say "a b c d e f g".comb(/\S/).perl
02:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f", "g")␤»
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03:19 PerlJam Anyone know off hand if it's possible to do a runtime use with rakudo?
03:24 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'
03:24 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Sure PerlJam!␤»
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03:25 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam! if( 'perljam' ) { require Math } '
03:25 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 'Sure "␤»
03:25 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 'perljam' ) { require Math } '
03:25 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 'perlj"␤»
03:25 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { require Math } '
03:25 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
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03:25 kthakore awww
03:25 kthakore I suck
03:26 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use Math; } '
03:26 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Math' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.1​0.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
03:26 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use ; } '
03:26 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
03:27 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use v6; } else { use v7; }'
03:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "if( 1 ) { "␤»
03:27 kthakore rakudo: say 'Sure PerlJam!'; if( 1 ) { use IO; } else { use v7; }'
03:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'IO' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.1​0.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
03:27 kthakore something like that
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03:30 PerlJam I tried the obvious things, but they didn't seem to work.  :)
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03:31 kthakore PerlJam: rlly?
03:31 kthakore but I find that obvious usually works in perl
03:31 kthakore perl6
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04:05 wayland76 Hi all.
04:05 wayland76 I have a perl6 question.
04:05 dukeleto I would like to make some Google Code-In translation tasks for Perl 6. What documents about Perl 6 need to be translated into other languages?
04:06 wayland76 Once a grammar is applied to a string, and a Match object is obtained, is it possible to take the Match object and the grammar, and reverse the parse to obtain the original string?
04:07 colomon wayland76: In Rakudo, the original string is stored in the match object.  I'm not sure if that's spec, and I'm not sure how to get back to it...
04:08 PerlJam wayland76: sounds like you want to walk the parse tree, concatenating the stringy versions of $/ as you go along.
04:08 colomon rakudo: my $m = "This is a test" ~~ /is/; say $m.perl
04:08 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 2,␤ orig => "This is a test",␤ to   => 4,␤)␤»
04:08 PerlJam wayland76: but the top-level $/ will be the entire string matched anyway, so ...
04:08 colomon rakudo: my $m = "This is a test" ~~ /is/; say $m.orig
04:08 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«This is a test␤»
04:10 wayland76 My reason for wondering was that I figured it would be nice to parse a file, modify the match object, and then say "write this back to the file"
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04:11 wayland76 Would it make sense to have a function on the match object that says "walk my children and, concatenate the stringy versions of $/  "?
04:11 wayland76 (sorry, extra comma -- ignore)
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06:09 sorear good * #perl6
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06:12 sorear kthakore: if( 1 ) is wrong, wrong, wrong and only works in Rakudo due to a bug.  anysequenceofletters( is always a function call in term position.  You wanted if 1 instead; if you insist on parens, they have to be separated from if by a space
06:13 sorear wayland left :/
06:15 kthakore sorear: aww sorry
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06:20 kthakore rakudo: say "sorry sorear"
06:20 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«sorry sorear␤»
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06:38 masak oh hai, #perl6
06:40 masak PerlJam, kthakore: as far as I know, you were on the right track with 'require', but since it's run-time, it doesn't have the same syntax as 'use'.
06:41 masak er. scratch that. seems it does.
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06:58 sorear hello masak !
06:58 masak hi sorear!
06:59 masak aaah. another glorious day in Perl 6 land.
07:00 masak and only one day left to the Big Announcement. :)
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07:00 sorear 1 hour yet in my timezone and I'm still feeling quite productive.
07:01 sorear while out today I figured out how to make require work.
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07:01 sorear which is an important first step to eval
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07:02 masak 'require' is a prerequisite to 'eval'?
07:03 sorear they both involve adding a compilation unit to a Perl 6 interpreter at runtime
07:04 masak that they do.
07:04 masak so they have a common prerequisite.
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07:11 dalek book: b03cd9d | (Jeffrey T. Palmer)++ | src/operators.pod:
07:11 dalek book: Fix minor typos
07:11 dalek book:
07:11 dalek book: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
07:11 dalek book: review: https://github.com/perl6/book/commit/b03cd9d95e
07:11 moritz_ good morning
07:11 masak morning!
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07:54 sorear C#-- # condition ? F1() : F2(); is a syntax error
07:54 masak why?
07:57 sorear the expressions allowed in void context are very limited
07:57 sorear only stuff with obvious side effects
07:58 sorear this hasn't bothered me at all until just now
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08:03 moritz_ such things usually start to bother you when you generate code :-)
08:05 sorear I retroactively appreciated it when I noticed how much of a win dead code elimination was :-)
08:06 dalek niecza: 3aadb1f | sorear++ | src/Metamodel.pm:
08:06 dalek niecza: Decouple sub tree from lexicals system
08:06 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3aadb1f952
08:06 dalek niecza: cb82aa3 | sorear++ | / (5 files):
08:06 dalek niecza: Implement INIT phaser
08:06 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cb82aa3168
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09:03 dalek niecza: b46d150 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
09:03 dalek niecza: Reimplement monkey typing using phasers
09:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b46d150b02
09:09 dalek grok: 8828824 | hinrik++ | / (2 files):
09:09 dalek grok: Skip testing S26, since Perl6::Perldoc currently can't parse it
09:09 dalek grok: review: https://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/8828824e09
09:09 dalek grok: 1d294d7 | hinrik++ | Changes:
09:09 dalek grok: v0.25
09:09 dalek grok:
09:09 dalek grok:     - Skip testing S26, since Perl6::Perldoc currently can't parse it
09:09 dalek grok: review: https://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/1d294d7350
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10:00 masak &
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10:02 * sorear &
10:04 moritz_ fg
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10:11 tadzik o/
10:11 moritz_ \o
10:12 moritz_ tadzik: how's the advent post coming?
10:12 tadzik moritz_: it's not, yet :) I just finished my labs on Uni in 3 hours instead of 4, so I have some time to at least start it
10:25 tadzik survey: what existing perl 6 module do you like/use often?
10:27 moritz_ JSON::Tiny
10:27 moritz_ SVG
10:27 moritz_ SVG::Plot
10:27 * moritz_ 's vanity alert flashes, since he developed them
10:28 tadzik (:
10:28 moritz_ not vanity, actully. I just developed modules that I wanted to use
10:28 moritz_ and now I'm using them
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10:30 tadzik hrm
10:33 tadzik I wonder if that wouldn't actualy result in duplicating the so-you-want-to-write-a-module post
10:33 tadzik (duplicating the content, that is)
10:36 tadzik I feel out of ideas :| What do you think the post should contain?
10:36 moritz_ things like: go to modules.perl6.org for a list of modules
10:36 moritz_ for installing them, download neutro
10:37 moritz_ types these lines for bootstrapping neutro
10:37 moritz_ then do  neutro Foo::Bar
10:37 moritz_ point to your post about starting modules
10:40 tadzik oh, so also 'how to install modules', sure
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11:02 dalek mu: 26c1b4a | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
11:02 dalek mu: Added an initial version of today's article
11:02 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/26c1b4ade8
11:02 tadzik proofreading and further ideas will be more than welcome
11:04 moritz_ +Modules will be installed to C<~/.perl6/lib> as well, so assuming your
11:04 moritz_ 42
11:04 moritz_ +PERL6LIB is alredy set, you are now able to use the installed modules:
11:04 moritz_ the point of ~/.perl6/lib is that's in the search path by default
11:04 moritz_ so PERL6LIB doesn't need to be set
11:04 tadzik really?
11:04 tadzik cute
11:05 moritz_ rakudo: .say for @*INC
11:05 tadzik so even the warning in neutro is worthless
11:05 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«lib␤/home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤/home/p6eval/p​1/lib/parrot/2.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤.␤»
11:05 tadzik cool
11:05 flussence I think "./lib" should be in there by default too...
11:05 moritz_ apart from that: very nice
11:05 moritz_ tadzik: one more thing... the title doesn't quite fit to the contents of the post
11:05 moritz_ it's not primarily about writing modules
11:05 tadzik oh, right
11:05 tadzik I've been changing the title like 5 times alredy :)
11:06 moritz_ Perl 6 Modules - an incomplete story
11:07 flussence I'd comment on the post, but I've horribly screwed up X and my system's in the middle of an update already
11:07 moritz_ flussence: if you have a checkout of the mu repo, just use perldoc to view it
11:07 * flussence facepalm
11:07 flussence yeah, that'd be easier :)
11:08 tadzik or just pod2text
11:09 dalek mu: 8ef15ef | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
11:09 dalek mu: Fix a few things
11:09 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/8ef15ef46b
11:09 tadzik leaving for my programming classes, wil be back later
11:09 flussence I didn't have a clone of it already, but wow, that's a big repo.
11:10 moritz_ it contains the full history of the pugs repo
11:10 moritz_ plus a bit
11:10 moritz_ $ git log|grep ^commit|wc -l
11:10 moritz_ 32217
11:14 flussence there's a Term::ANSIColor? Nice.
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12:19 tadzik flussence: ha! there's even two!
12:21 tadzik flussence: is there anything you'd like to see in the article?
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12:32 flussence tadzik: nothing comes to mind, looks good to me
12:34 flussence I saw a Term::$something for p5 the other day that does 256 colours, I'm not a fan of having to remember that many colour names though
12:34 flussence (I'd much prefer to just pass in rgb values and have it figure out the best palette entry)
12:36 flussence .oO( something else for me to write... )
12:37 tadzik unluckily, there is no rgb in ansi terminals
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12:44 smash hello everyone
12:44 moritz_ oh hai
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13:00 takadonet morning all
13:03 smash takadonet: mornin'
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14:21 PerlJam good * #perl6!
14:22 moritz_ good now, PerlJam
14:23 colomon rakudo: say ((1, 2) Z, (3, 4)).Str
14:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
14:23 moritz_ PerlJam: let me remind you that you're scheduled for the advent calendar tomorrow
14:23 PerlJam aye.
14:23 colomon I'm scheduled for Sunday, right?
14:24 PerlJam Feel free to give me ideas too.  I feel idea-less and have for a while.
14:24 takadonet who posting today?
14:25 PerlJam (yes, I have read the brain storming, but nothing "clicks")
14:25 moritz_ takadonet: tadzik
14:25 moritz_ colomon: you're scheduled for the 11th, which I believe is Saturday
14:26 moritz_ PerlJam: since I've dumped all my ideas into the brainstorm, I can't offer more
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14:27 moritz_ I have a TODO list for my blog, but it turns out that I already consulted it for the advent list
14:28 moritz_ the only remaining item is "why numeric types don't fit well with mathematical types"
14:30 PerlJam Dr Pepper + cashews make for an interesting "breakfast"
14:31 moritz_ that reminds me, I have a can of cachews open at home, which we used for our last curry
14:31 oha maybe usefull, but i would like to read something about minidbi and dbi in general
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14:37 masak PerlJam: write about something in Perl 6 that you like... :)
14:38 PerlJam masak: I like too much  :)
14:38 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_P​aradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less :)
14:39 * moritz_ hates that big banner on top of WP pages
14:40 PerlJam moritz_: me too!
14:40 PerlJam wikipedia--
14:40 moritz_ and even if I adblock it, the text remains
14:40 moritz_ and wastes space
14:40 moritz_ I can click on the small X box to close it, but that choice isn't remembered
14:40 moritz_ wikipedia--
14:40 moritz_ </rant>
14:41 PerlJam greasemonkey could help
14:41 moritz_ but I shouldn't have to
14:41 flussence I think it only appears with JS turned on (I've never seen it)
14:47 masak moritz_, PerlJam: http://i.imgur.com/GHWO3.png :)
14:48 moritz_ masak: :-)
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14:58 [Coke] I am stunned that people surf the web with JS disabled.
14:59 [Coke] (but then, I write web apps for a living)
14:59 mathw I've always thought it was a bit excessively paranoid
14:59 mathw But then, they'd probably say I'm being an idiot
14:59 masak I sure the web with JS disabled. in one of my browsers.
14:59 mathw And when you get right down to it, I'm probably stupid for having my computer connected to the internet
14:59 masak I also write web apps.
15:00 masak there are clear risks with having JS enabled by default, but I do it for performance reasons.
15:01 PerlJam masak: sounds like the exact justification that Microsoft used for all of the insecurities in their operating system.
15:02 * moritz_ usually doesn't want all the interactivity that js offers
15:02 moritz_ I often just want to read a page
15:02 * flussence likes predictable UIs
15:02 PerlJam moritz_: you're just old fashioned  :)
15:02 * masak likes a gracefully degrading web
15:02 moritz_ no flashy toolbars, comment markers, real-time loaded tweets, ...
15:02 moritz_ PerlJam: indeed I am.
15:03 masak I'm old-fashioned in that way too.
15:03 masak I sincerely believe much of the web is designed wrongly in an absolute sense.
15:03 PerlJam I want a UI that caters to my needs and desires so that I don't have to think about things that are irrelevant to whatever task I'm trying to accomplish.
15:03 moritz_ I'm active in a german web forum, and in the "homepage" section people often ask how to always show the same URL in the title bar, regardless of which subpage you're currently visiting
15:04 masak Gmail is one of the few Ajax apps that got the back button right.
15:04 moritz_ I never understood why people want so tight control over their website, at the cost of the visitor
15:05 moritz_ that's like wanting to forbid references to individual chapters or pages of a book
15:05 moritz_ (the last one wanted it for security reasons.... somebody hacked his site, and he thought he could prevent that hiding the URL. 'nough said).
15:05 moritz_ s/that/that by/
15:05 PerlJam masak: what do you think of the latest github changes?
15:06 masak PerlJam: so far I've only noticed that things slide sideways.
15:06 PerlJam yeah, I think that's the only major change
15:07 masak I'm ok with that, although I don't find that it adds anything.
15:07 PerlJam It adds a little bit of instant gratification  :)
15:07 masak something about it feels a bit like the Mac OS X interface.
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15:12 moritz_ http://www.infoq.com/news/2010/12/verve-msft # a type safe operating system (prototype)
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15:26 dalek mu: 7e4977f | (Tadeusz Sośnierz)++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/articles/module-system.pod:
15:26 dalek mu: More fixes in module-system article
15:26 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/7e4977fee8
15:26 tadzik any last words, last ideas?
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15:28 alester tadzik: Do you have a link to a list of all advent entries?
15:28 moritz_ ship it!
15:28 moritz_ the day is nearly over in my time zone :-)
15:28 alester So that if someone sees that one article, they can link to see all of them?
15:29 tadzik alester: I don't think so. But we could mangle wordpress a bit to show it, no>
15:29 MayDaniel_ joined #perl6
15:29 tadzik moritz_: aren't you in Gernamy?
15:29 alester tadzik: Are all these entries in a category?
15:29 alester What site are you posting to?
15:30 risou joined #perl6
15:30 moritz_ tadzik: yes. More than 2/3 of the day is already passed
15:30 moritz_ http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/ works, but it's not links
15:31 MayDaniel left #perl6
15:31 alester You're not tagging these?
15:31 alester Just tag them as "Advent" and then you can link to an Advent aggregate page
15:32 alester Or not.  I'm just strirring up shit. :-)
15:32 alester But I figure that someone's going to see a mention of it and want to see the rest.
15:33 tadzik I created a category 2010, but I think I'm the only one adding entries to a category :)
15:33 moritz_ tadzik: I do too, unless I forget
15:33 PerlJam tadzik: I've modified the other entries to use those categories (2009,2010)
15:33 tadzik PerlJam++
15:33 alester Also, I really like tagging in WordPress
15:34 alester it's butt simple and makes it real easy to get good tag lists.
15:34 alester see tag cloud on right column http://techworklove.com/
15:34 alester I'm about thisclose to moving Perlbuzz over to WordPress, too.
15:35 alester Which I realize is almost heretical, but MT vs. WP is night/day.
15:35 Patterner left #perl6
15:35 PerlJam alester: not heretical at all.  Just pragmatic.
15:35 alester I kow.
15:35 alester There's just no Perl-based blogging software that comes close.
15:35 tadzik loliblogged!
15:36 tadzik http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/​09/day-9-%E2%80%93-the-module-ecosystem/
15:36 colomon \o/
15:37 moritz_ \o/
15:37 alester Tweeted https://twitter.com/#!/perlb​uzz/status/12893462110142464
15:37 tadzik oh nice :)
15:37 PerlJam btw, perhaps this is just my pedantry showing through, but all of the titles start with "Day N" except for day 4 and all of them use "Day N -" except that days 6 and 7 use "Day N:"    Should we strive for consistency here?
15:38 tadzik (I hope it will be well-received, I have a strange feeling like "it could have been better")
15:38 tadzik . o O ( strangely consistent )
15:38 PerlJam tadzik: artists always feel that way about their own work.
15:38 tadzik :]
15:39 tadzik maybe I'm an artist then, if I'm quite sure my photography sucks :)
15:39 masak I believe it's cool to use Perl software on the web, but I don't believe it's heretical not to.
15:40 tadzik I remember this troll HIBOU trying to prove that Rakudo is unusable, because we use Wordpress, which is PHP
15:40 PerlJam tadzik: I use "artist" in the general sense of "someone who creates some original work"
15:40 Miesco left #perl6
15:40 tadzik I know, I'm just kidding around :)
15:41 smash PerlJam: programming, in general, can be an art
15:41 smash tadzik: the post looks great
15:42 moritz_ PerlJam: some consistency wouldn't be bad
15:42 masak indeed. tadzik++
15:42 PerlJam tadzik: having just read and went through your instructions, the only thing I would change is that I would emphasize adding ~/.perl6/bin to your PATH more.
15:42 PerlJam tadzik: i.e., rather than saying "assuming it's in your path", I'd say, "make sure it's in your path"
15:42 PerlJam tadzik++ indeed
15:43 tadzik PerlJam: it's a tricky part, you set it differently everywhere
15:45 * tadzik redditing the post
15:45 tadzik (disregard trolls, aquire karma)
15:45 PerlJam tadzik: Well, reading from an "outsider's" perspective, you say "assuming ~/.perl6/bin is in your PATH" and I would think  "why would that be in my PATH?  What else is in ~/.perl6?  What is its function?"  etc.
15:45 tadzik PerlJam: hmm, quite right
15:46 cotto left #perl6
15:46 tadzik I have 10 minutes of battery life though... will try to fix it a bit
15:46 tadzik http://www.reddit.com/r/pr​ogramming/comments/eiz01/ lolireddited
15:46 dd-sphere joined #perl6
15:48 tadzik post updated, hope it's better
15:49 Psyche^ joined #perl6
15:49 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
15:49 arnsholt I just increased the meme factor of my presentation by one. With a Latin Rickroll =D
15:50 arnsholt Now I just need a good latinisation of Rick Astley's name for the attribution ^^
15:50 ch3ck3r left #perl6
15:50 moritz_ Riaccomo
15:50 arnsholt I've gotten as far as Ricardus Paulus
15:51 arnsholt But Astley is giving me trouble, for obvious reasons =)
15:54 masak does the name mean anything?
15:54 masak you could translate by meaning.
15:55 wtw left #perl6
15:56 arnsholt Apparently it's a compund noun, meaning "east (of the) meadow"
15:57 * arnsholt has an idea
15:58 masak that sounds workable.
15:59 arnsholt I'll probably go with Ricardus Paulus Prati Orientis (Richard Paul of the East Meadow)
16:00 justatheory joined #perl6
16:05 masak nice!
16:08 arnsholt Yeah, I think that'll work
16:08 arnsholt Now I just have to hope someone asks what the Latin quote I used as an example means =)
16:11 MayDaniel_ left #perl6
16:12 masak I'm doing the last bit of preparing now for the Big Announcement tomorrow.
16:13 masak I hope you're appropriately on edge :)
16:20 slavik1 left #perl6
16:23 * colomon is on edge...
16:24 masak I'm prepared to give out a fourth and final clue, if there's interest.
16:25 Axius joined #perl6
16:25 colomon clue!  clue!  clue!
16:25 masak the crowd has spoken.
16:25 masak here it is: http://wins.failblog.org/2010/12/05/e​pic-win-photos-simply-beautiful-win/
16:25 alester left #perl6
16:25 colomon does it have anything to do with your 3-language tweet of yesterday, or was that old news I simply missed previously?
16:26 masak colomon: as of January, I have a new job. but that is not the Big Announcement.
16:28 masak oh well. at this time tomorrow, we'll know. :)
16:29 * masak is curious whether clue #4 conforms to moritz_' guess
16:30 colomon I like the grammatical implication of "we'll know" -- that you might not know yet either.  :)
16:31 masak :)
16:31 masak movie &
16:31 masak left #perl6
16:31 slavik1 joined #perl6
16:31 whatsoever joined #perl6
16:32 PerlJam masak: you're in communication beings made of light from the future and they have brought you a working, fast Perl 6 compiler ?
16:32 PerlJam er, communication *with* beings made of light
16:32 whatsoever left #perl6
16:32 PerlJam I know I thought that word the first time, but no clue why my fingers refused to type it.
16:36 jaldhar left #perl6
16:42 slavik1 left #perl6
16:42 oha rakudo: say [[\+] 1,3...9]
16:42 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1 4 9 16 25␤»
16:42 oha rakudo: say [[\,] 1,3...9]
16:42 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:45 colomon > [\,] 1,3...9
16:45 colomon ===SORRY!===
16:45 colomon maximum recursion depth exceeded
16:45 colomon interesting bug
16:49 oha colomon: yup, that's whay i got too locally
16:49 oha either with [,]
16:53 oha perl6: say [[,] 1..3]
16:53 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
16:53 p6eval ..rakudo :  ( no output )
16:54 slavik1 joined #perl6
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18:00 rgrau joined #perl6
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18:11 TimToady now.good should return an InstantGratification
18:14 sjohnson future.happiness is undefined :(
18:15 M_o_C_ is now known as M_o_C
18:15 M_o_C left #perl6
18:16 M_o_C joined #perl6
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18:30 jasonmay rakudo: sub foo(%d) { %d.perl.say }; foo(1 => 2);
18:30 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '%d'; expected Associative but got Pair instead␤  in 'foo' at line 1:/tmp/5DV48PdWml␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/5DV48PdWml␤»
18:31 envi left #perl6
18:32 rokoteko maybe bit off topic, but this relates to perl 6. Im curious how is the performance comparison between parrot and perl 5 XS code?
18:33 smash left #perl6
18:35 jasonmay rakudo sub foo(:$bar) { $bar.perl.say }; foo bar => 'hello'
18:35 rokoteko ie. running XS from perl5 vs running some parrot like code from perl6
18:35 di joined #perl6
18:35 jasonmay whoops
18:35 jasonmay rakudo: sub foo(:$bar) { $bar.perl.say }; foo bar => 'hello'
18:35 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«"hello"␤»
18:35 di left #perl6
18:35 jasonmay rokoteko: I was wondering that too
18:35 jasonmay I hope so, parrot is way cleaner looking than xs :)
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18:47 TimToady rakudo: say ~(1,2 Z, 3,4)
18:47 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
18:47 TimToady known bug?
18:48 colomon not to me
18:48 colomon rakudo: say ~(1,2 Z~ 3,4)
18:48 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«13 24␤»
18:48 colomon something's wacky with the comma operator
18:49 TimToady perhaps not de-containerizing returned vars
18:49 impious joined #perl6
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18:50 colomon also got this today:
18:50 colomon > [\,] 1,3...9
18:50 colomon ===SORRY!===
18:50 colomon maximum recursion depth exceeded
18:50 TimToady rakudo: say ~((1,3),(2,4)) # but this is OK
18:50 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1 3 2 4␤»
18:51 TimToady rakudo: say [,] 1
18:51 colomon I've got to do some $work now, but if no one else has tackled this by this evening, I'll try to take a look.
18:51 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
18:52 TimToady rakudo: say [,] 1,2
18:52 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
18:52 TimToady that's a simpler max recursion
18:52 TimToady probably the same one
18:52 TimToady might be same bug too
18:53 TimToady some kind of unexpected aliasing of returned variables
18:57 sow joined #perl6
19:03 jnthn Decontainerizing just don't happen yet afaik.
19:03 mtk left #perl6
19:07 TimToady rakudo: my $x = 2; my $y = 4; my $z = (1,$x Z, 3,$y); say $z.Str;
19:07 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2 4 2 4␤»
19:08 TimToady rakudo: my $x = 2; my $y = 4; my $z = (1,$x Z, 3,$y); ($x,$y) = <boo gah>; say $z.Str;
19:08 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«boo gah boo gah␤»
19:08 Juerd Oh, wow. * is chr 42.
19:08 Juerd That's so awesome.
19:09 gfldex :)
19:09 TimToady .oO(When you wish upon a {chr 42}...)
19:09 rjbs Juerd: Ha!
19:09 jnthn rakudo: say "When you wish upon a {chr 42}..."
19:10 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«When you wish upon a *...␤»
19:10 jnthn :D
19:10 * jnthn wonders how deep the decontainerization goes...
19:11 mtk joined #perl6
19:12 TimToady rakudo: my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ($x Z, $y) = <boo gah>; say $x, $y
19:12 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/HXeYau_Vz7␤»
19:13 TimToady rakudo: my $x = 1; my $y = 2; ([,] $x,$y) = <boo gah>; say $x, $y
19:13 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«12␤»
19:13 jnthn e.g. in return [$x, [$y, $z]] # decontainerize all?
19:13 TimToady [...] decontainerizes anyway
19:13 jnthn oh, true
19:14 TimToady we need a shorter name for that :)
19:14 jnthn Is looking into infix:<,> and nested ones of those maybe enough?
19:14 TimToady maybe snaps, as in "snapshot", or "snap the umbilical cord"
19:15 TimToady I would guess that comma is special, yes
19:15 diakopter or "snapper"
19:15 TimToady commie snapper
19:15 jnthn snappy commie
19:17 TimToady immute that list!
19:17 diakopter In Soviet Russia, commas delimit you!
19:17 TimToady comma snapper
19:19 jnthn heh :)
19:19 * jnthn figures it shouldn't be too hard to implement. Efficiently, otoh...
19:20 TimToady thing is, if we want to make ($x Z, $y) = equivalent to ($x, $y) = we will need to make Z pass along the lvalueness and not snap the list
19:20 TimToady likewise for [,]() =
19:21 skangas joined #perl6
19:21 jnthn Do we want that? :)
19:21 Axius left #perl6
19:21 TimToady I could see (@foo Z, @bar) = ...
19:21 jnthn It feels want-ish (e.g. context flowing the rong way). Maybe...
19:21 TimToady er, sliced
19:22 TimToady I could see (@foo[*] Z, @bar[*]) = ...
19:22 jnthn Hm
19:22 jnthn Yeah, that could have its uses.
19:22 TimToady I could see (@foo[^10] Z, @bar[^10]) = ...
19:22 jnthn Well, we already pass what-to-do flags along to Z
19:22 jnthn &zipwith
19:22 jnthn Oh, maybe we do anyway...
19:23 TimToady this particular decision could be made at compile time, actually
19:23 jnthn Yes.
19:23 TimToady lzipwith  :)
19:23 TimToady people will find lreduce confusing though :)
19:24 jnthn Feels like the take vs take-rw style thing again.
19:24 colomon particularly [\,]
19:24 TimToady I don't think there's an ltriangle
19:24 jnthn Wonder if they're related enough issues for a common solution. (Don't ahve one to hand to suggest though...)
19:24 TimToady probably
19:24 kersplat joined #perl6
19:25 TimToady I meant they'd find lreduce confusing because they'll take it as lfold
19:25 TimToady the semantics are probably meaningful though
19:26 solarion left #perl6
19:26 TimToady maybe reduce-lv and zipwith-lv
19:26 jnthn Ah, OK.
19:26 jnthn Latvian reduce? :)
19:26 TimToady those aren't commies anymore
19:27 TimToady well, maybe some of 'em still are
19:27 jnthn Come to YAPC::EU next year and find out! ;)
19:28 lichtkind joined #perl6
19:28 TimToady the selection was Riga'd
19:28 ch3ck joined #perl6
19:31 TimToady rakudo: (rand < .5 ?? my $x !! my $y) = ord '*'; say "$x $y"
19:31 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«42 Any()␤»
19:32 blah_blah_blah joined #perl6
19:32 TimToady there's a spot where even Perl 5 departs from tradition to propagate lvaluehood
19:35 envi left #perl6
19:40 sorear good * #perl6
19:40 MayDaniel joined #perl6
19:41 sow left #perl6
19:41 sorear TimToady: hi
19:42 sorear A.pm: my module A; class X {}
19:42 sorear B.pm: my module B; use A; class A::X::Y {}
19:42 sorear test.pl: use A; use B; A::X::Y.new;
19:42 sorear TimToady: does this work?  why or why not?
19:49 kjeldahl left #perl6
19:55 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_basics_tablet
20:02 TimToady sorear: will need to think about it, but have a headache at the moment, so that's hard :)
20:06 sjohnson hugme: give TimToady a brain massage
20:11 fhelmberger left #perl6
20:11 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_basics_tablet
20:22 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_basics_tablet
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21:01 monty joined #perl6
21:02 monty helo how can i execute perl6 here pls?
21:02 phenny monty: 11 Nov 20:11Z <benoitc> tell monty I miss him
21:02 finanalyst left #perl6
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21:03 monty who misses me?! :)
21:04 moritz_ rakudo. say 'hello monty'
21:04 moritz_ rakudo: say 'hello monty'
21:04 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty␤»
21:04 monty oh thanks got it :)
21:04 moritz_ rakudo: say join ', ', 'hello monty' xx 3
21:04 y3llow joined #perl6
21:04 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty, hello monty, hello monty␤»
21:04 sjohnson heh
21:04 sjohnson rakudo: say join ', ' => 'hello monty' xx 3
21:04 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«␤»
21:04 sjohnson no => comma eh
21:04 sjohnson ah well, can't have 'em all!
21:04 pothos joined #perl6
21:04 moritz_ => is not a comma in Perl 6
21:05 sjohnson yeah, i figured :/
21:07 Tene sjohnson: If you want a comma, just use the comma.  We already have one, no need for another.  ;)
21:07 pothos left #perl6
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21:13 sjohnson nice on the eyes tho
21:13 sjohnson not saying ',',
21:13 sjohnson Camel Book even said so!!!
21:13 sjohnson :-)
21:13 jnthn ",", is a little nicer on the eyes.
21:13 * sjohnson hugs his perl book
21:13 jnthn imho
21:14 frew is now known as frooh
21:14 sjohnson chr(44),
21:15 colomon errr... what's happening with say join ', ' => 'hello monty' xx 3  ?
21:16 TimToady you're feeding join a single argument and a null list
21:16 colomon rakudo: say join ', ' => ('hello monty' xx 3)
21:16 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«␤»
21:16 colomon rakudo: say ', ' => ('hello monty' xx 3)
21:16 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«,       hello monty hello monty hello monty␤»
21:16 colomon ah
21:16 MayDaniel left #perl6
21:17 sjohnson i broke the sacred perl6 rule
21:17 sjohnson rule: don't assume perl5 stuff works
21:17 * sjohnson slaps himself on the wrist
21:17 TimToady except when it does
21:18 TimToady remember also that at least one of the authors of the camel book was an idiot :)
21:19 sjohnson i look forward to the day when i'll use that book as a doorstop
21:19 sjohnson butterfly book should come out then
21:25 soroush joined #perl6
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21:25 TimToady $.nap-state = True;
21:26 kjeldahl_ left #perl6
21:26 PerlJam rakudo: say join ', ' <== 'hello monty' xx 3  # how about this one sjohnson ?  :-)
21:26 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello montyhello montyhello monty␤»
21:26 PerlJam rakudo: say  'hello monty' xx 3 ==> join ', '  # or this?
21:26 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello montyhello montyhello monty␤»
21:26 jnthn rakudo: 'hello monty' xx 3 ==> join ', ' ==> say
21:27 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«hello monty, hello monty, hello monty␤»
21:27 PerlJam Hmm.
21:27 monty My name is getting used a lot here.. common people.. use another name :P
21:27 sjohnson PerlJam: i like the way you think
21:27 sjohnson there is more way to do it, just not the p5 way !
21:28 * PerlJam looks at his REPL and then looks at p6eval's output
21:28 PerlJam oh!  I see.
21:29 sjohnson Perl6Jam
21:29 PerlJam I guess I'm just not smart enough to use the REPL without mildly confusing myself  :)
21:31 monty left #perl6
21:32 PerlJam But on the plus side, I've got an idea I like for tomorrow's advent post
21:34 sjohnson does it have anything to do with the arrow => comma thingy?
21:34 PerlJam there is no arrow comma thingy  :)
21:35 PerlJam but it does have to do with the feed operators  <==  ==>
21:35 PerlJam :-)
21:35 jnthn om nom nom
21:35 jnthn oh, not that kind of feed...
21:35 jnthn Though I guess they kinda do nom a list.
21:36 M_o_C left #perl6
21:36 sjohnson heh
21:45 mtk left #perl6
22:01 dalek mu: 34bce8a | duff++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/schedule:
22:01 dalek mu: add some intent for Dec 10
22:01 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/34bce8a94c
22:05 sorear good * #perl6
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22:26 dukeleto sorear: jolly good day, fine sir
22:26 dukeleto jnthn: how is your nom hacking?
22:26 dukeleto jnthn: i read your slides and some blog posts, and your code makes a lot more sense to me now :)
22:26 dukeleto jnthn: those were some fantastic slides from OSDC.fr
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22:52 sorear hello whiteknight
22:53 whiteknight hello sorear
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