Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:43 arnsholt rakudo: say $*IN.get
01:43 p6eval rakudo 96d7e0: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤»
01:47 colomon rakudo: say $*IN.get.flip
01:47 p6eval rakudo 96d7e0: OUTPUT«,emortS ma dnaL ,egreB red dnaL␤»
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01:55 jjore Perhaps this is an issue I should take to parrot but I thought I just build parrot and rakudo fails its build inside parrot.  dynext/perl6_group.so: undefined symbol: Parrot_capture_lex
01:55 jjore Presumably this is familiar?
01:56 jjore For the curious, my complete build transcript at http://diotalevi.isa-geek.net/~josh/101219/
02:08 colomon Hmm.  It looks like maybe Rakudo is building, but it fails when it tries to compile Test.pm?
02:08 colomon can you try just ./perl6    ?
02:12 jjore Same failure.
02:16 jjore Shrug. Looking at it under LD_DEBUG=all, I see it looking in ./perl6, /usr/local/lib/libparrot.so.2.10.1, then going off to unrelated libs and failing.
02:19 jjore I guess I'll go find #rakudo and ask there.
02:23 colomon there is no #rakudo.
02:23 colomon this is where the rakudo developers hang out.
02:23 jjore Oh, well ok then.
02:24 jjore So uh, steps to repro: fetch repos for parrot + rakudo, build/install parrot, can't build rakudo
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02:25 colomon platform?
02:25 jjore ubuntu.
02:25 colomon (most of the Rakudo developers are asleep, unfortunately.)
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02:31 colomon might be worth peeking in #parrot to see if anyone knows what is going on there.  I always build Rakudo with --gen-parrot, so this is a bit out of my experience...
02:33 jjore Ah.
02:34 colomon They may know if something has changed with Parrot_capture_lex recently.
02:36 * jjore tried `git log -Scapture_lex` and didn't notice anything special.
02:36 jjore Oh well. I can just as well play a video game instead too. :-)
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02:45 uasi hi there
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02:47 uasi colomon, jjore: Parrot_capture_lex thing has changed in this commit https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​fedc1172add911e5d54302d30772c2fe6cf80657
02:48 colomon uasi++
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02:49 uasi I got the same error when I  updated to that version of Parrot with --gen-parrot
02:50 jjore yep. wasi++
02:51 uasi jjore: maybe you should do 'make realclean' in raludo repo and try ./Configure.pl --gen-parrot
02:52 jjore Yep, will do. At least, something like that.
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02:54 jjore Oh, interestingly enough, I guess I was missing that commit.
02:55 jjore Oh, yep. I'd noticed Parrot_sub_capture_lex in parrot. Thought it was merely a related but different function.
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03:12 colomon anyone online remember how to use wrap?  (or at least where it appears in the spec?)
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03:13 Jmax S06
03:15 colomon danke
03:16 Jmax bitte
03:31 * colomon thinks he finally has a working p2, now just needs to stress test it up, clean it up, and maybe make a module with one or two of the handy core routines.
03:32 arnsholt colomon: That's the first one I did too =)
03:32 colomon It's a routine I've written several times before, though never in p6 (it turned out, I thought I had it done already).
03:33 arnsholt Ah, right. I'd never done it before, but knew the generalities of it
03:33 arnsholt (Having taken a 3D graphics course a few years ago)
03:33 colomon conceptually very simple, but getting the details right is a bit tricky (or at least, I found it so).
03:34 arnsholt Yeah, I'm sure my code is riddled with bugs
03:35 colomon I think mine is fairly robust (barring more typos), but could definitely use serious cleaning and testing.
03:36 arnsholt Yeah, I've got to write some tests too
03:37 arnsholt And documentation. I've got a single line comment in my code ATM =)
03:37 arnsholt But I've sidetracked on to p4 now, which is fun
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05:15 dalek sprixel: 43db628 | diakopter++ | / (5 files):
05:15 dalek sprixel: add antlr grammars
05:15 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/43db628c19
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07:42 dalek sprixel: b61c69f | diakopter++ | / (10 files):
07:42 dalek sprixel: diffs :)
07:42 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/b61c69f2f6
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08:49 muixirt good morning
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09:24 masak good monday, #perl6
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09:27 masak buubot: karma wasi
09:27 buubot masak: wasi has karma of 1
09:27 masak wasi--
09:27 masak uasi++
09:27 masak :)
09:29 masak arnsholt, colomon: you people give me the warm fuzzies talking about the contest in the backlog. :) it's very nice to know people are hacking on solutions.
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09:35 muixirt masak: things like empty loops consume slowly memory, how could i investigate the problem?
09:36 masak muixirt: I know some people use profilers to investigate where all the speed goes. don't know what people use to investigate memory leaks.
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09:44 masak PerlJam: how's today's Advent post coming along?
09:44 masak are there any volunteers for slots #22 and #23?
09:46 dalek mu: 20cb908 | masak++ | misc/perl6advent-2010/schedule:
09:46 dalek mu: [misc/perl6advent-2010/schedule] 25: merry X-mas
09:46 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/20cb908621
09:52 muixirt masak: hmm, no advent post about Bufs?
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09:52 dalek specs: a7b0d9d | masak++ | S12-objects.pod:
09:52 dalek specs: [S12] Expanded inscrutable acronym for VienosNotes++
09:52 dalek specs:
09:52 dalek specs: The spec is inscrutable enough as it is without people wasting 20 minutes
09:52 dalek specs: to find the meaning of infrequent acronyms.
09:52 dalek specs:
09:52 dalek specs: See http://twitter.com/VienosNot​es/status/16767710964752384
09:52 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7b0d9dd82
09:52 masak muixirt: maybe next year.
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09:58 muixirt maybe? *shivers*
09:59 muixirt only because it's snowing here :-)
09:59 masak :)
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10:52 masak huh. HN has a user 'pmichaud', but it's not our pmichaud. :)
10:55 muixirt HN?
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11:12 masak muixirt: http://news.ycombinator.com
11:14 muixirt ok
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11:22 * muixirt reads Mathematics The Most Misunderstood Subject
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11:34 dalek roast: f94554a | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S02-builtin_data_types/whatever.t:
11:34 dalek roast: [whatever.t] Added tests for RT #80256.
11:34 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f94554a2d4
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11:37 dalek rakudo: cae7f95 | uasi++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
11:37 dalek rakudo: [Actions] Made Whatever currying cooperate with meta-operators.
11:37 dalek rakudo:
11:37 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Kodi Arfer <hippo@Thoth.(none)>
11:37 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cae7f952ad
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12:01 * muixirt is a little bit disappointed about HN math story
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12:11 colomon masak: what's the deadline for the contest, again?
12:12 masak for signing up: 24th. for sending submissions: 14th.
12:13 Trashlord what contest?
12:13 masak Trashlord: http://strangelyconsistent.org/b​log/masaks-perl-6-coding-contest
12:14 colomon masak++: Ah, that's good.  That gives us time to adjust our wish lists post-Christmas.  ;)
12:15 colomon I was thinking I might do a blog post on p2 and schedule it for after the contest is closed.
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12:16 Trashlord ha, looks cool
12:16 Trashlord not sure if I actually know enough Perl 6 to participate in that, though, heh
12:17 masak colomon: you're very welcome to. I'm planning to do very thorough blog posts on each task, combining the theory with examples of people's solutions.
12:17 masak Trashlord: a winning strategy might be to sign up and send in five trivial solutions. if everyone else submits four or fewer, instant win. :)
12:18 masak (where "trivial" here means "passes the base tests and nothing more")
12:18 masak of course, if anyone actually sends in good solutions, that strategy is hosed.
12:18 Trashlord ha, yeah
12:23 Trashlord I've never participated in a programming contest before, to be honest
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12:54 takadonet morning all
12:54 masak takadonet: \o
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13:15 masak PerlJam: ping
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13:49 [Coke] .
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14:28 [particle] the solution may be hosed, but the journey cannot be undone.
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15:00 takadonet rakudo: subset DEPTH of Mu where { $_ eq 'beer' || $_ ~~ Int }; my DEPTH $ya='RE';
15:00 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/p6lhl1fBOH␤»
15:00 takadonet rakudo: class A { subset DEPTH of Mu where { $_ eq 'beer' || $_ ~~ Int }; has DEPTH $.ya is rw }; my $ya = A.new(ya=>'re');
15:00 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:  ( no output )
15:00 takadonet bug?
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15:05 colomon seems like
15:05 colomon probably NYI?
15:05 takadonet nuts
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15:15 jjore masak, re: memory leaks. More profilers. Just different. Often by having instrumented allocation + Iterable heap and stack. Ie, just plain old structured data and hooks.
15:15 flussence omg, I got my xmms2 code to actually do something!
15:15 masak jjore: chromatic on #parrot might be able to give more tips.
15:15 masak flussence: wow! nice!
15:16 flussence still gives a Null PMC access at the end though :)
15:18 jjore Oh, right, I forgot there's a #parrot.
15:18 masak what do I answer to http://twitter.com/VienosNot​es/status/16870351094939650 ?
15:18 masak it's a really good question. does the spec give a clear answer?
15:24 * colomon scratches his head.
15:24 gfldex what is a trait? I know what it does, but what _is_ it?
15:24 * flussence fixes the code in my advent post
15:25 flussence trait = role, I'm guessing
15:26 gfldex that would mean that methods have roles
15:26 flussence I think in the context he's using "trait", anyway...
15:26 gfldex so there is more then one type of trait?
15:29 flussence p6's traits are general modifier things, in other languages I've seen they're usually what p6 calls "roles"
15:29 mux or mixins
15:30 masak gfldex: a trait is a role that's applied to an object.
15:31 masak no wait, that's a mixin. :)
15:31 masak a trait is whatever follows 'is' and sometimes 'will' in declarations.
15:31 gfldex so the term trait is syntax that supplies meaning of intend?
15:32 masak so 'is BaseClass' is actually the exception here -- we're using the trait mechanism for inheritance.
15:32 * flussence goes to read what "will" is
15:32 gfldex by applying the trait to the class object?
15:32 masak yeah, something like that.
15:33 gfldex that sounds clever ... :->
15:33 masak TimToady: how can I inherit from a class called 'rw'? if there is a class called 'rw' in my namespace, how can I use the 'rw' trait on a class?
15:34 flussence (oh, 'will' is just a synonym for 'is' apparently)
15:34 masak aye.
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16:00 masak should we be worried that PerlJam hasn't shown up with his Advent post yet?
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16:02 flussence someone (else) might have to save the day again
16:07 colomon doh!
16:07 colomon does anyone have something ready?
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16:33 masak PerlPilot: PerlPilot == PerlJam, right?
16:33 colomon I believe so
16:33 masak me too, just making sure.
16:40 [Coke] AOL
16:41 masak PerlJam, PerlPilot: you're up for an Advent post today, and we're all eagerly awaiting a sign of acknowledgement from you :)
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16:53 PerlPilot masak: I live.  :)
16:53 masak \o/
16:54 masak Christmas is saved! :)
16:54 masak nom &
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16:54 PerlPilot dealing with a sick child, but I'm writing (slowly)
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17:37 user_1011 hi all
17:37 takadonet user_1011: hey
17:37 user_1011 need urgent help
17:37 user_1011 how can i enable perl6 syntax coloring and autocomplete in padre?
17:38 user_1011 many thanks in advance
17:38 takadonet user_1011: I do not use Padre but I'm sure someone else around here does...
17:39 user_1011 ok. what you use as perl6 ide
17:39 user_1011 ?
17:39 takadonet vim and emacs
17:39 takadonet vim has syntax highlighting
17:39 user_1011 on windows
17:39 takadonet do not use windows....
17:39 takadonet in padre, try to see if you can find a menu where it says 'view document as' ... and should be in that list
17:40 user_1011 yeah. i know. windows must die. but i need ide for perl6 development on windows
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17:41 user_1011 there have this menu but it do nothing.
17:42 takadonet user_1011:  http://padre.perlide.org/irc.html
17:42 takadonet You can try the #padre channel
17:43 user_1011 ok. many thanks
17:43 user_1011 bye
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17:58 [Coke] ... I use vim on windows.
17:59 [Coke] which I wouldn't recommend to someon looking for an IDE, but "windows" isn't a showstopper there.
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18:05 uasi rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).perl.say
18:06 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«({"1" => 2, "3" => 4}, 5)␤»
18:06 uasi rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).elems.say
18:06 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«3␤»
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18:09 colomon :\
18:12 flussence rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).elems.perl.say
18:12 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:12 flussence um.
18:15 colomon I think that's a flattening too far
18:16 [Coke] ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).elems[0].perl.say
18:17 [Coke] rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).elems[0].perl.say
18:17 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«3␤»
18:17 [Coke] rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5).elems[1].perl.say
18:17 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«undef␤»
18:17 colomon rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5)[0].perl.say
18:17 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«"1" => 2␤»
18:17 colomon rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5)[1].perl.say
18:17 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«"3" => 4␤»
18:17 colomon rakudo: ((1 => 2, 3 => 4).hash, 5)[2].perl.say
18:17 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«5␤»
18:17 colomon Of course, that might be right.
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18:33 uasi rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.hash, 5).perl.say
18:33 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«({"1" => 2, "3" => 4}, 5)␤»
18:33 uasi rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.hash, 5).elems.say
18:33 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«2␤»
18:33 uasi rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.hash, 5)[0].perl.say
18:33 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«{"1" => 2, "3" => 4}␤»
18:34 uasi {1 => 2, 3 => 4}.hash should be flattened?
18:35 colomon not in my opinion.
18:35 huf rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.kv, 5)[0].perl.say
18:35 colomon but I'm frequently stumped by flattening
18:35 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«"1"␤»
18:35 huf huh, doesnt kv produce a list of pairs? or which one does?
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18:39 uasi huf: .list
18:40 uasi rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.list, 5)[0].perl.say
18:40 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«"1" => 2␤»
18:40 colomon rakudo: ({1 => 2, 3 => 4}.kv, 5).perl.say
18:40 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«(("1", 2, "3", 4), 5)␤»
18:40 huf ah, so .kv is the old perl5ish behavior?
18:40 huf alternating list of keys/values?
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18:40 colomon yes.
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18:41 rokoteko huf: what are the faults in the "old perl5ish behaviour"?
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18:42 huf faults? did i imply faults?
18:42 rokoteko no. I was mainly curious if you did an I didnt explicitly detect them.
18:43 huf ah. no, that's a fine behavior, if it's what you want
18:43 huf surprise surprise, i like p6's solution more
18:44 colomon p6's solution is to let you do it either way, depending on how you ask.  :)
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18:47 rokoteko surprise vs sunrise .. it's only a matter of a very tiny amount of area how much those two words differentiate geometrically.
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20:07 PerlJam whew!  perlpilot is having some problems today.
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20:07 PerlJam Anyway, to those that can, have a look at http://perl6advent.wordpress​.com/?p=686&amp;preview=true and give me some feedback before I publish it.
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20:28 Tene PerlJam: 404
20:29 PerlJam I believe you have to have a WP account and be logged in for it to work.
20:29 takadonet indeed
20:30 Tene Ah.
20:30 Tene That's *far* too much work. ;)
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20:32 takadonet Tene you need to be an author ....
20:33 Tene takadonet: I already was!  I did mine a full *year* early.
20:33 takadonet heh
20:33 Tene I don't know what you slackers are doing, doing yours so late.
20:35 PerlJam published.  http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/201​0/12/20/day-20-the-perl-6-synopses/
20:35 PerlJam now it's easier for some people to provide feedback  :)
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20:36 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programmin​g/comments/eoy31/perl_6_advent_cal​endar_day_20_the_perl_6_synopses/
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20:40 PerlJam takadonet++  :)
20:40 colomon \o/
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20:52 lue ohai o/
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21:16 lue Hm. I think I'm either not understanding actions well enough, or the rest of my code is going to receive some major refactoring.
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21:18 PerlJam lue: what's the problem?
21:20 sjohnson Eddie Vector
21:23 lue With Pod, I have a tough time deciding where in the actions to create an object to hold stuff (and the stuff in that object really depends on where I create the object.) I'm more willing to blame a grammar set up for the nonactions way.
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22:03 lue .oO(I can't seem to understand proto regexes ...)
22:03 sorear can you be more concrete?
22:03 sorear btw, * #perl6
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22:05 lue rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B { }; multi regex B:C { Cc }; multi regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:05 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
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22:07 sorear uhm
22:07 lue I know I've made a stupid mistake here...
22:07 sorear niecza: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B { }; multi regex B:C { Cc }; multi regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").dump
22:07 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/WW201x2DG7 line 1:␤------> [32m A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B { [33m⏏[31m}; multi regex B:C { Cc }; multi regex B[0m␤    expecting quantifier␤Parse failed␤»
22:07 flussence B:<C> ?
22:07 sorear ah.  yes, youi have.
22:08 sorear niecza: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B {*}; multi regex B:C { Cc }; multi regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").dump
22:08 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(2) text(Cc) pos([]) named({"B" => #<match from(0) to(2) text(Cc) pos([]) named({})>})>␤»
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22:08 sorear Rakudo may still be using proto regex B { <...> } syntax
22:08 flussence is that invalid now?
22:08 sorear but proto regex B { } is wrong in both models
22:09 sorear flussence: about a month ago TimToady decided that protos should be {*}
22:09 flussence makes sense.
22:09 sorear he also changed STD, which forced me to implement the new model a bit earlier than I would have
22:12 sorear flussence: not B:<C>
22:12 sorear well, B:<C> is valid
22:15 lue proto regex B {*}    fails in rakudo ( although    proto regex B {{*}}    works, but won't match anything, just like my first try ^^^ )
22:16 sorear lue: does proto regex B { <...> } work?
22:17 sorear rakudo's Perl6::Grammar seems to be using proto token fooo { <...> } exclusively
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22:20 lue rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B { <...> }; multi regex B:C { Cc }; multi regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:20 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
22:20 lue no :/
22:21 sorear rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto regex B { <...> }; regex B:C { Cc }; regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:21 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
22:21 sorear rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto token B { <...> }; regex B:C { Cc }; regex B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:21 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
22:21 sorear rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto token B { <...> }; token B:C { Cc }; token B:D { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:21 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
22:22 sorear rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B> }; proto token B { <...> }; token B:sym<C> { Cc }; token B:sym<D> { Dd } }; say A.parse("Cc").perl
22:22 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "Cc",␤ to   => 2,␤ named => {␤  B =>    Match.new(␤    from => 0,␤    orig => "Cc",␤    to   => 2,␤   ),␤ },␤)␤»
22:22 sorear that's probably worth filing a bug
22:23 sorear phenny: tell masak lue++ just noticed that 'token category:id' doesn't work in Rakudo; it needs to be 'token category:sym<id>'.  Is this a new bug?
22:23 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
22:23 sorear phenny: tell masak c.f. http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2010-12-20#i_3107596
22:23 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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22:27 lue would using :sym<C> be acceptable in the meantime?
22:27 sorear yes
22:29 sorear look at src/Perl6/Grammar.pm in your local Rakudo checkout - this is the largest known Rakudo-compatible* grammar and will probably answer a lot of questions
22:29 sorear * it's actually a NQP-RX grammar, but Rakudo uses the same grammar engine
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22:50 Tene sorear: by my memory, rakudo has never supported :foo, only :sym<foo>
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