Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:50 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 3aeed03 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
00:50 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Implement rest of &sub2 cases
00:50 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3aeed0316a
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02:22 sorear niecza: say $( "foo" ~~ / (.) <?before $0> / )
02:22 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«o␤»
02:23 sorear (Jörg Walter)++ # finding corner cases
02:23 sorear rakudo: say item( "foo" ~~ / (.) <?before $0> / )
02:23 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«f␤»
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02:42 sorear niecza: say $( "an\nb" ~~ m/<-[\n\#\ \t]>+/ )
02:43 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Action method quote__S_m not yet implemented at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Actions.pm line 54.␤invalid undef here at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Actions.pm line 1542␤     Niecza::Actions::whatever_precheck('Niecza::Actions', '',
02:43 p6eval ..'Op::StringLiteral=…
02:43 sorear niecza: say $( "an\nb" ~~ /<-[\n\#\ \t]>+/ )
02:43 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«an␤»
02:43 sorear niecza: say $( "a\nb" ~~ /<-[\n\#\ \t]>+/ )
02:43 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«a␤»
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03:34 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 95e6723 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
03:34 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add &pkg2 functions to thawer
03:34 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/95e6723264
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04:09 lopnor hello,
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04:10 lopnor is there any way to fork a process?
04:11 TiMBuS yes, if you use zavolaj you can call fork
04:11 TiMBuS https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj
04:12 lopnor is it core in rakudo star?
04:12 TiMBuS not sure, but it's a simple single .pm file you can include
04:12 TiMBuS https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/blob/master/examples/unix-fork.p6 there's the example
04:13 lopnor oh, it's very easy!
04:13 lopnor thank you, i will try that
04:13 TiMBuS yeah i was surprised at how easy it was, as well
04:14 TiMBuS im not sure if it's very efficient. keep an eye on your memory usage
04:14 lopnor i wanted to fork for testing some server,
04:15 lopnor so it should be okay for me
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04:27 lopnor TiMBuS: hm, the sample doesn't work in my mac,
04:27 lopnor saying "Could not locate symbol 'fork' in native library '(resident)'"
04:28 lopnor i'm using rakudo star 2010-11
04:29 TiMBuS you might need to specify the library name
04:30 lopnor what library name?
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04:32 TiMBuS erm, whats fork in osx?
04:32 TiMBuS 'libc' ?
04:32 lopnor ah,
04:33 lopnor sub fork() returns Int is native() { ... }
04:33 lopnor this line should be
04:33 lopnor "sub fork() returns Int is native(libc) { ... }" or something,
04:33 lopnor right?
04:34 TiMBuS yeah
04:34 TiMBuS its a string, so  is native('libc')
04:34 lopnor thank you!
04:34 lopnor it ran
04:40 sorear is native<libc>
04:41 lopnor it also ran:)
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05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: edc4573 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add stash log processor
05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/edc457375b
05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 5370305 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add &pkg3 functionality
05:02 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5370305dfe
05:12 sorear for some reason I'm slightly disturbed that niecza/cilbackend is keeping module interface data in JSON
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07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 95bc91e | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add signature encoder
07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/95bc91e871
07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: d9b3d8c | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add &sub3 functionality
07:36 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d9b3d8c31a
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07:38 Koznetsov hello, i have few question about perl6
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07:45 masak Koznetsov: for next time when you have questions, please (1) stay on the channel, and (2) ask.
07:48 lue hello masak o/
07:54 sorear hi lue, masak.
07:55 sorear I think I have a complete SAFE.dll from the new backend now
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07:57 masak \o/
07:58 masak good morning sorear, lue.
08:01 TimToady I think I can do the advent entry for the 24th; is there a pod-to-wp translator anywhere?
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08:02 lue heh, more like good night here. Just looking at gallifreybase.com before bed (hard to believe how privatized it is!)
08:03 TimToady but must sleep now, so if anyone comes up with a better idea, feel free to pursue it
08:03 TimToady I will backlog in the AM
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08:04 TimToady $.state = Sleep;
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08:07 masak \o/ ++TimToady
08:07 masak moritz_ spoke of a pod2html translator. it's possible to input raw HTML into wp, too.
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08:12 masak bus &
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08:36 moritz_ godd morning
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08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 93a0597 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add CORE-used primitives, dependency handling
08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/93a0597b81
08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 8807f8a | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add support for generating executables
08:37 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8807f8a167
08:37 sorear good morning moritz_
08:39 moritz_ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516057/how-to-control-nestedness-of-loops-in-perl-6
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08:40 lue good night #perl6 o/    [ I'll probably be the only one to say that for a few hours :) ]
08:41 moritz_ good night #perl6 # just to prove lue wrong, not because I'm actually going to bed :-)
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08:52 masak oh hai from a long-distance *bus* \o/
08:52 moritz_ heading home for christmas?
08:54 sorear hi masak
08:54 masak yes, just so.
08:54 masak well, my actual home is where I'm heading from. I'm heading towards home**2, where I grew up.
08:56 masak I don't know who Jörg Walter is, but his bug reports are very readable.
08:56 moritz_ sounds rather German-ish
08:56 moritz_ (the name at least)
08:57 masak I know why #81136 occurs.
08:57 masak <before> is one big honking hack in PGE.
08:58 masak haven't looked at it in nqp-rx, but let's just say I'm not surprised it doesn't retain captures.
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09:02 masak #81180 review: looks fine. if anyone who's not on a bus wants to apply it, feel free.
09:03 masak someone might also want to write a brilliant answer to http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4516057/how-to-control-nestedness-of-loops-in-perl-6
09:04 * moritz_ pasted that link 25 minutes ago too
09:04 moritz_ I guess the "right" contextualizer would fix the problem, if it were implemented
09:04 moritz_ but then [+] $_  is bound not to do what the OP wants
09:04 masak mm.
09:05 sorear I think what he actually needs is 1..7 X 1..7 X 1..7
09:05 sorear X should be list-associative
09:05 sorear this isn't working in rakudo
09:05 sorear as for the sum,
09:05 moritz_ that too
09:05 moritz_ @$_ should help
09:05 sorear rakudo: given [1, 2, 3] { say [+] .list }
09:05 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«6␤»
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09:06 sorear rakudo: given [1, 2, 3] { say [+] @$_ } #does Rakudo have this yet?
09:06 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "@$_ } #doe"␤»
09:06 moritz_ rakudo needs @($_)
09:07 moritz_ \o/ 1.4k views on yesterday's advent post
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09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 4acf199 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Generate runtime module dependency edges
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4acf199d38
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 11ec6d1 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add missing casts for type object setup
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/11ec6d10c5
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 65b47c2 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Fix several more verifier-caught errors
09:16 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/65b47c2a78
09:16 sorear cilbackend can now run say "Hello, world"
09:17 moritz_ \o/
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09:17 sorear before it can be merged, it needs to 1. pass the full testsuite 2. be integrated with the driver
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09:18 masak`` thundergnat++ # "May the Schwartz be with you!"
09:18 mathw \o
09:18 masak`` o/
09:20 masak`` on December 10, I quadrupled the traffic to my blog.
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09:21 masak`` the two by far most popular URLs are now http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/feed.atom and http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/masaks-perl-6-coding-contest
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09:22 masak the root URL comes a distant third.
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09:25 moritz_ the rss feed is no surprise
09:25 masak` hm, and 4chan is one of my referrers. :)
09:25 moritz_ I'd say that the coding contest is a pleasant surprise :-)
09:27 masak` ah: http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1292263150
09:27 masak` surprisingly positive.
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09:32 masak moritz_: "Harry Potter and the methods of rationality" is only getting better and better. I'm at chapter 39 now. I'm simply amazed at the quality of writing -- far above my expectations for a fanfic.
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09:36 moritz_ same here
09:38 masak I've started on a blog post which showcases bug reporting, debugging and TDD as aspects of the scientific method.
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09:46 tadzik hello!
09:46 * tadzik finally has internets at home
09:47 masak tadzik! \o/
09:48 * masak reads the test*.pl files in niecza master to see what it can do
09:48 tadzik and I moved to this flat in october
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10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 6539673 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Finish LAD construction, misc label and goto bindings
10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6539673d37
10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: a15d1ec | sorear++ | / (3 files):
10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Fix several regex bugs
10:31 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a15d1ecd17
10:31 * sorear -> sleep
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10:54 dalek rakudo: a980da4 | nwellnhof++ | src/core/IO.pm:
10:54 dalek rakudo: Fix open() with binary flag
10:54 dalek rakudo:
10:54 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
10:54 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a980da4167
10:54 dalek rakudo: a5a9364 | nwellnhof++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
10:54 dalek rakudo: Make Buf.decode work
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10:54 dalek rakudo:
10:54 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
10:54 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a5a9364b33
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12:54 takadonet morning all
12:57 colomon o/
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12:58 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eq75s/perl_6_advent_calendar_day_23_its_some_sort_of/
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13:35 flussence I've got a line "if $a.IO.e or $b.IO.changed > $a.IO.changed", but is there a better way to write "do this, unless the output file is newer"?
13:36 flussence oops, should be a ! after if there
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13:46 smash hello everyone
13:46 colomon \o
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13:47 takadonet smash: yo
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14:00 lichtkind what you mean  by munch?
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14:05 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
14:06 smash i predict a very short changelog for this release
14:09 smash .pm names suggestions for release names are welcome
14:20 lichtkind smash: rakudo?
14:21 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_delta_tablet
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14:27 smash lichtkind: yes
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14:37 pmurias hi
14:37 takadonet pmurias: yo
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15:15 smash (tricky question) any idea on which was the first perl mongers group?
15:16 smash NY.pm according to wikipedia
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15:51 smash just push'ed changelog updates and announcement, everyone feel free add more updates
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15:56 dalek rakudo: b2440a5 | smashz++ | docs/ (2 files):
15:56 dalek rakudo: [release] update changelog and add announcement
15:56 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b2440a57f0
15:56 dalek rakudo: 4830af6 | smashz++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
15:56 dalek rakudo: [release] update release guide
15:56 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4830af6855
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15:56 smash running tests and spectest for the next couple of hours
15:57 smash last chance for last minutes updates
16:01 tadzik how about these today's fixes in Buf?
16:02 smash hmm, i missed that one, and open fix too
16:05 smash tadzik: thks
16:09 dalek rakudo: e9cf790 | smashz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
16:09 dalek rakudo: [release] changelog updates, tadzik++ for pointing out changes
16:09 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9cf790b30
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16:29 dalek roast: eb032c7 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | integration/error-reporting.t:
16:29 dalek roast: [error-reporting.t] Add test for RT #80982
16:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/eb032c702f
16:29 dalek roast: 20034ba | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | integration/error-reporting.t:
16:29 dalek roast: add fudge
16:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/20034ba970
16:29 dalek roast: 9d5a903 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S02-polymorphic_types/subset.t:
16:29 dalek roast: [subset.t] Test for RT 80930
16:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9d5a903aec
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16:32 masak partway into niecza's tests, I have this to say:
16:32 masak wow!
16:32 masak sorear++
16:32 takadonet masak: why? b/c it's fast?
16:32 masak I'm not running the tests, I'm reading them.
16:32 dalek roast: a0b2612 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | / (2 files):
16:32 dalek roast: [OOPS] update the test plans I forgot
16:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/a0b2612c1b
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16:34 masak` it's like this: I've seen Pugs grow steadily, and I've seen Rakudo grow steadily, but now I'm becoming aware that I *completely* missed niecza's early childhood.
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16:34 masak` to remedy this, I'm thinking of making January a niecza-only month.
16:35 masak` won't be difficult, considering all that's already there.
16:36 masak` (and yes, it seems pretty fast, too)
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16:39 masak by the way, there's only today and tomorrow left to sign up for the Perl 6 Coding Contest!
16:39 tadzik hmm
16:39 tadzik thanks for the reminder :)
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16:43 masak` sorear: test.pl:265: ok (?0) ~~ (?1), "bools are a constant";
16:44 masak` sorear: I think the test is correct but I'm mystified by its description.
16:44 masak` other than that, test.pl is an inspiring read. kudos!
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16:46 jasonmay coding contest?
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16:48 masak jasonmay: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/masaks-perl-6-coding-contest
16:49 perigrin masak: getting others to write your Go AI I see
16:49 * perigrin hides.
16:49 masak heh :)
16:49 masak was that a reference to p4?
16:50 perigrin actually the first four would all apply in some transformative fashion
16:50 masak huh.
16:50 masak I can honsetly say that I didn't have Go on my mind when I thought of them.
16:50 perigrin :)
16:51 perigrin but you see where I'm seeing it ?
16:51 * masak looks
16:51 masak` left #perl6
16:51 perigrin looked so hard you killed your other connection
16:52 masak my other connection sucked.
16:52 masak so does this one, in all likelihood.
16:52 perigrin it's cause instead of broadband you've got bredband
16:52 perigrin I blame the Sweedish government.
16:52 masak` joined #perl6
16:52 flussence the ducks are eating his connection
16:52 masak` I can see how p4 might be a subset of Go somehow. I can see how p3 might possibly be related.
16:53 masak` I don't see the connection with p1 (which is about matrices) and p2 (which is in the continuous plane).
16:53 perigrin a Go board is pretty similar to a continuous plane
16:53 masak` perigrin: but if you see it, then you definitely should sign up! :)
16:54 masak` maybe you'll have some insight that others don't.
16:54 perigrin yeah I know what a matrix is ... but not how to multiply it ... they didn't include that in the red pill.
16:55 masak` my wifi is a bit wobbly because I'm on a bus going across Sweden.
16:56 masak` the wikipedia entry on matrix multiplication is pretty good.
16:56 flussence bus-provided wifi?
16:56 masak left #perl6
16:56 perigrin but if you view a go board as a series of points [1 2 3 4 ....] you can see how it easily transforms into a matrix :)
16:57 flussence (continental EU gets all the fun stuff... bah)
16:57 perigrin flussence: they have it on long haul busses in teh US now too
16:57 masak` flussence: yeah! it's great. when it works.
16:57 perigrin but yeah it's using a 3G connection or something
16:57 perigrin for the entire bus
16:58 flussence I was wondering whether it was on the bus, or the bus was just really slow and you were picking up signals from buildings :)
16:58 masak` perigrin: when you're not using the special matrix multiplication, it's more of a regular 2D array, I'd say...
16:58 masak` :)
16:58 masak` is now known as masak
16:58 masak I see such networks going by now and then.
17:00 perigrin masak: yeah ... my maths stopped before the fun stuff in college
17:01 masak I'm sorry to hear that.
17:01 masak never to late to seek out all the fun stuff, though :)
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17:09 TimToady masak: I believe import of the comment is that True ~~ False even if the Bool is supplied by an expression, so the "constant" is more of an "invariant"
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17:09 TimToady er, False ~~ True rather
17:10 masak ok, that kinda makes sense.
17:10 TimToady my question is why this is a niecza test instead of a spectest :)
17:11 masak there's probably quite a bit of overlap between the test*.pl files in niecza and the spectests.
17:11 masak I don't know why sorear has chosen not to use the spectests directly.
17:11 masak I imagine this way he can move forward faster.
17:12 tadzik http://twitter.com/VienosNotes/statuses/17950692383662080 -- looks worrying
17:12 * TimToady wonders how many of the niecza tests rakudo would pass...
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17:13 masak tadzik: nah, he's just explaining to @osa9 how whitespace works after function names.
17:13 tadzik ah
17:13 masak TimToady: I was thinking the same thing. now I'm going to try it.
17:13 tadzik ah, right
17:13 masak it'll take a bit of manual fudging, because niecza does heredocs and stuff.
17:13 masak but if I do it with the aim of writing a blog post, it might be fun.
17:15 masak niecza's lib/Test.pm6 also has a sub rxtest.
17:15 masak it's nice, but I will have to fake it for Rakudo.
17:15 masak sub rxtest($rgx, $rgxname, @y, @n) is export
17:15 masak was able to guess the function of $rgx and $rgxname, but not of @y and @n just looking at the calls. :)
17:17 am0c_ left #perl6
17:19 masak things I've seen so far that I know Rakudo doesn't do but niecza does: heredocs, LTM, WHENCE, better autoviv.
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17:28 daxim still no heredocs in rakudo?  booooy
17:30 dalek roast: fef3dcc | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S10-packages/basic.t:
17:30 dalek roast: [S10-packages] Test for RT 80856
17:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fef3dccf5d
17:30 dalek roast: ee1cf20 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S02-whitespace_and_comments/minimal-whitespace.t:
17:30 dalek roast: [minimal-whitespace.t] Test for RT 80330
17:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ee1cf201ea
17:30 dalek roast: 5760b39 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S03-sequence/misc.t:
17:30 dalek roast: [S03-sequence] Test for RT 80574
17:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5760b39f0a
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17:57 colomon masak: you should fudge it the other way, and get heredocs working in Rakudo.  ;)
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18:05 ggoebel masak: If I remember right, sorears biggest hurdle with spectest was eval
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18:09 ggoebel sorear: as exciting as niecza is from the optimization ax grinding perspective... the day it'll be "real" for this lurker, is the day it has eval and starts running the spectest.
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18:13 ggoebel sorear: and have to say once again, niecza is exciting. It has restored my faith that Perl6, when it matures, will be both fast and good :)
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18:29 jjore Hi, here is a very short horror story of meta object protocols that clash with user code. $work thought it'd be neat to have an object attribute named 'can' and also thought it'd be neat to auto-generate methods for working with attributes. Somewhere along the way UNIVERSAL::isa.pm was handed one of these objects and everything went kablooey. In prod, of course.
18:30 moritz_ I don't see the connection to MOP
18:30 moritz_ I just see a method name clash
18:30 jjore ->can('...')?
18:31 jjore In perl 6 you'd spell that something like .^can or something, right?
18:31 moritz_ right
18:31 moritz_ so you can have both .can and .^can
18:31 jjore anyway, it's "namespaced" away.
18:33 moritz_ yes
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18:40 shortcircuit I suppose I should mention here that I contributed a Perl 6 example to Rosetta Code: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Counting_in_Factors
18:41 TimToady shortcircuit++
18:41 TimToady I'll look at it later, but at the moment I'm writing the Christmas Eve advent calendar entry
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18:46 colomon TimToady++
18:48 shortcircuit You know what might be useful? A desugar filter. Syntactic sugar can make the reasons for code's behavior non-obvious. For understanding the language syntax, (and existing code), I'd find it useful to be able to de-sugar code.
18:49 tadzik shortcircuit: well volunteered!
18:49 tadzik :)
18:50 tadzik that could be a Padre plugin, so when you mouseover code it desugars, or something
18:55 abra joined #perl6
18:57 shortcircuit tadzik: That'd require me to understand the sugar. :)
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19:12 rindolf Hi all.
19:12 rindolf Was Rakudo Star for December released yet?
19:13 flussence there's an announcement written, the thing itself isn't yet...
19:13 rindolf flussence: OK, thanks.
19:14 flussence think we're just waiting for the tests to finish right now...
19:15 smash today's release is not rakudo star release
19:15 flussence oh, that too.
19:16 flussence (I didn't see the star, because the weather's cloudy here)
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19:36 smash All tests successful, last call if anyone wants to include something on today's release
19:38 dalek rakudo: 8246b5c | smashz++ | VERSION:
19:38 dalek rakudo: [release] bump VERSION
19:38 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8246b5c8be
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19:49 dalek niecza/cilbackend: cacbb63 | sorear++ | test.pl:
19:49 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Reword a confusing test label masak++
19:49 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cacbb636c7
19:51 sorear shortcircuit: you mean like perl -MO=Deparse,-p -e '...' ?
19:52 sorear maybe add ,-x7,-q,-P for good measure
20:01 KyleHa joined #perl6
20:02 KyleHa Hello #perl6.
20:02 sjohnson hello, world
20:02 tadzik helli KyleHa
20:02 dalek roast: 84eeb91 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S02-builtin_data_types/whatever.t:
20:02 dalek roast: [whatever.t] Test for RT 79166
20:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/84eeb91eda
20:03 KyleHa rakudo: say dir().pick(5)
20:03 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/e0Z8D5bNcv␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/e0Z8D5bNcv␤»
20:03 sorear good * #perl6
20:05 fhelmberger joined #perl6
20:05 takadonet sorear: hey
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20:06 KyleHa In which syn is dir() spec'd?
20:09 KyleHa I think I found it in S32-setting-library/IO.pod
20:10 takadonet KyleHa: i believe that where it is for the moment
20:10 takadonet however I'm not 100% sure
20:13 sorear joined #perl6
20:20 tadzik What is <ident> in grammars?
20:22 sorear a subrule call
20:22 jedai_ joined #perl6
20:22 sorear not a language-defined subrule
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20:23 tadzik funny. It's used in lolsql parser, but not defined anywhere. Gets a maximum recursion depth in Rakudo, I'll try with niecza
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20:23 colomon wouldn't it be the rule for an identifier?
20:23 sorear you might be seeing leakage from the Perl6 grammar
20:24 tadzik Action method multi_declarator__S_null not yet implemented
20:24 simcop2387_ left #perl6
20:24 tadzik colomon: is there one?
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20:24 tadzik there is in HLL::Grammar iirc
20:24 colomon token identifier {     <.ident> [ <.apostrophe> <.ident> ]*  }
20:24 colomon that's in Rakudo's Grammar.pm
20:25 colomon suspect it is pulling ident from HLL::Grammar or something, yes.
20:25 tadzik adding "is HLL::Grammar" fixes that bug
20:25 tadzik so a Rakudobug, no?
20:25 colomon seems like, but not my area at all, I admit.
20:26 tadzik rakudo: grammar Foo { token TOP { <ident> } }; Foo.parse('arsars')
20:26 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:  ( no output )
20:26 colomon sorear probably has a better idea...
20:26 tadzik rakudo: grammar Foo { token TOP { <ident> } }; Foo.parse('arsars')
20:26 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:  ( no output )
20:26 tadzik eh
20:26 tadzik rakudo: grammar Foo { token TOP { <ident> } }; Foo.parse('arsars'); say 'alive'
20:26 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«alive␤»
20:26 tadzik not so easy
20:29 tadzik now it's even funnier: http://paste.perldancer.org/28mOhB7fnOJLx
20:29 tadzik it probably misses something from HLL::Grammar now
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20:43 dd070 hello ppl
20:44 dd070 anyone awake
20:44 tadzik ywis
20:44 * gfldex yawns
20:44 gfldex hmm?
20:45 dd070 cool
20:45 tadzik now that you've woken up gfldex please present some lifechanging patches you've come with :)
20:46 colomon left #perl6
20:46 dd070 which point of perl6 spec hurts most ?
20:46 gfldex sadly i have so far no lifechanging patches
20:47 gfldex but i have high hopes to celebrate perl6's inherent greatness when jnthn++ enlightens us with the next object model
20:47 tadzik no idea, I'm not into specs really
20:47 tadzik :)
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20:48 gfldex i would say S22
20:49 dd070 well even i haven't read official docs. but i am aware of a few features.
20:49 dd070 or restrictions
20:50 dd070 like forcing variable declaration in any script.
20:51 dd070 it really hurts in quick and dirty scripts.
20:51 dd070 having use strict was enough.
20:51 moritz_ then you can switch it off.
20:51 dd070 how can i switch off ?
20:52 moritz_ no strict;
20:52 moritz_ not yet implemented though
20:52 dd070 i would have to write no strict on top for quick and dirty scripts.
20:53 moritz_ right
20:53 gfldex you could have your own settings
20:53 moritz_ and by that you clearly label it as "quick and dirty"
20:53 moritz_ if that's what you want, why not?
20:54 moritz_ you can even write an alias, so that 'use quick'n'dirty;' does the same as 'no strict;'
20:54 dd070 quick things should not bother with settings. such scripts sole purpose is only specific to testing some logic or new hack very quickly.
20:55 moritz_ dd070: I see your point, but history has clearly shown that in general 'no strict;' is a bad default
20:55 moritz_ it means you have to start off teaching newbies why 'use strict;' and variable declarations are good idea in the first place
20:55 dd070 but such scripts are small mostly limited to 5 yo 10 lines and i know i will not mistype any variable.
20:56 moritz_ well, then type 'no strict;' and be happy.
20:56 gfldex you could tie no strict to it's own executable/shell wrapper
20:56 dalek roast: d6631bb | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S12-subset/subtypes.t:
20:56 dalek roast: [subtypes] Test for RT 78318
20:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d6631bbdd6
20:56 dalek roast: 98abe8e | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S12-subset/subtypes.t:
20:56 dalek roast: [subtypes.t] Test for RT #78322
20:56 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/98abe8e910
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20:56 Su-Shee hi.
20:57 moritz_ when you've answered 20 posts on perlmonks where somebody wrote spaghetti perl code with errors that 'use strict;' would have caught, and the one who asks it had no clue what's wrong, then you start to see that it's a bad default that way
20:57 moritz_ hi Su-Shee
20:57 allbery_b and extra code to complain if the script is larger than N lines or used more than M times :)
20:58 dd070 in production code we are free to 'use strict'. moreover its auto enabled if we use moose
20:58 dd070 newbies generally grow up quickly knowing what is 'use strict'
20:59 moritz_ if they get so far at all.
20:59 dd070 in PHP there no such thing. still its hot selling cake.
20:59 KyleHa Lack of lexical scoping is what drove me away from PHP.
21:00 * moritz_ wonders if godwin's law transferred to programming discussions includes the mention of PHP
21:00 dd070 i know bugs can be produced but thats why liked perl's 'use strict' feature. but I do not like to make it turned on by default.
21:00 moritz_ well, we can't expect everybody to be happy with every change
21:00 Su-Shee javascript has use strict; now too.
21:00 dd070 javascript too ?
21:01 Su-Shee yes. EC5 supports it, the rest ignores it if it is there.
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21:01 Su-Shee it's very similar to perl5's, with a little javascript twist here and there (naturally)
21:02 dd070 anyway, some moments back to perl,  for large script or project kind of thing Perl5 offers 'use strict'. thats good thing. I don't want to use Java for simple tasks.
21:02 moritz_ ... and you don't have to.
21:04 colomon joined #perl6
21:04 dd070 right. thts why i prefer to 'use strict' for production. its not bad.
21:06 sji joined #perl6
21:06 moritz_ anything new you want to add to the discussion?
21:07 dd070 KyleHa: in php  functions all variables are localized. if want to access global one, use global keyword. its fine enough. but not having 'use strict' often lead to bug due to variable name mistyping.
21:09 moritz_ do you think that variables inside functions should work differently from variables outside functions?
21:09 moritz_ and should those inside functions which are nested inside other functions work differently again?
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21:11 dd070 not so clear about that. but it works that way. if want to use global variable, have to declare it with global keyword first. otherwise local copy will be created.
21:11 dd070 in functions.
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21:12 colomon_ is now known as colomon
21:12 KyleHa As I recall, PHP had three scopes:  global, file, and function.  I want to scope a variable to a block.
21:12 dd070 we can enable warning to log use of uninitialized variables.
21:13 dd070 KyleHa: I think global and file scope are same thing as far as PHP is concerned.
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21:13 dd070 KyleHa: no you can not scope variable to a block.
21:14 KyleHa That fact about PHP burned me, and I left it.  It may be very popular with others, but that was my personal deal breaker.
21:14 Su-Shee so, I take it from the discussion that the latest rakudo version is implemented in PHP? ;) whose idea was that? ;)
21:15 dd070 Su-Shee: rakudo is Perl6 project. isn't it
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21:16 moritz_ Su-Shee: pmichaud's of course. After he did it in lolcode, he asked himself "is there anything else I could do where the audience would laugh any harder?". PHP was his answer
21:16 moritz_ *SCNR*
21:16 Su-Shee I'm being sarcastic, I already have rakudo ;)
21:16 dd070 KyleHa: That thing never hurtd me really. i was comfortable to write good quality code for long.
21:17 Su-Shee moritz_: you typed "laugh" wrong - it's spelled "would cry any harder" ;)
21:17 dd070 KyleHa: actually I still like PHP but its mostly used in Web App. and its lib is not as large as CPAN
21:17 colomon left #perl6
21:17 colomon_ is now known as colomon
21:18 dd070 its most open source classes are web apps specific.
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21:25 Su-Shee ok, what am I using to install modules? pls, proto, neutro or ufo?
21:25 flussence neutro
21:25 flussence seems to be the most 'alive' one right now, anyway
21:26 moritz_ neutro
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21:32 tadzik wow, I didn't expect it'd be alive and well for so long
21:32 abra left #perl6
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21:34 smash devel release #36 done
21:35 tadzik :)
21:35 tadzik smash++
21:35 smash there's noone scheduled for release #37
21:36 simcop2387 joined #perl6
21:37 moritz_ smash++
21:37 tadzik can I try?
21:37 moritz_ tadzik: sure. Have you submitted a CLA already?
21:37 tadzik moritz_: CLA?
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21:37 dju joined #perl6
21:37 moritz_ tadzik: Contributor's License Agreement
21:38 moritz_ http://www.perlfoundation.org/contributor_license_agreement
21:38 tadzik oh
21:38 tadzik serious business
21:39 moritz_ yes :(
21:39 abra joined #perl6
21:39 tadzik so I need to write a letter and send it through the ocean to the USA?
21:39 moritz_ aye
21:40 flussence not quite, it'd get wet.
21:40 tadzik please tell me this is a joke for the newcomers
21:40 moritz_ (maybe a fax is OK too, but I don't know any number you might send it to)
21:40 moritz_ tadzik: no, it's really serious
21:40 KyleHa Treat it with shark repellent first.  Except that might give the lawyers problems...
21:40 tadzik huh
21:40 moritz_ I've signed such a thing too
21:40 sbp use a hermetically sealed envelope
21:40 sbp that's what keeps hermet crabs dry [sic]
21:40 KyleHa I've sent in a CLA.
21:41 sbp not sure about the hermet seals though
21:41 tadzik how about a scanned document through an email?
21:41 smash moritz_: i've sent one myself, letter in _real paper_ !!
21:41 smash tadzik: they require in paper, signed
21:41 tadzik huh
21:41 smash it's more of a burocratic thing, lawyers like paper
21:42 tadzik Big Thing. But well, it'll get useful sooner or later
21:42 * tadzik checks how much a letter to the USA costs
21:43 tadzik ho, that's cheap. I can do that
21:43 dalek rakudo: 8f10c4b | moritz++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
21:43 dalek rakudo: [docs] tadzik++ volunteers for next release; add a few more planned release dates
21:43 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8f10c4b94e
21:45 tadzik alright. I'll sent it after christmas, prioritaire
21:45 tadzik (I'm still amazed how Big Thing it is)
21:46 smash tadzik: it's a quite common thing
21:47 smash well, i'm off to "Celebrate with the appropriate amount of fun" like the release guide instructs
21:47 moritz_ smash++
21:47 moritz_ have the appro... you're going to ahve it anyway :-)
21:47 tadzik :)
21:47 smash hehe, laterz
21:47 smash left #perl6
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21:57 tadzik from time to time I find bugs in neutro so horrible I wonder how did this thing even work before :)
21:59 dual joined #perl6
22:01 dalek roast: 1e438c8 | (Kyle Hasselbacher)++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
22:01 dalek roast: [assign] Test for RT 80614: chained array item assignment
22:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1e438c8baf
22:04 allbery_b sounds like you're a Real Programmer :)
22:05 lue good afternoon #perl6 o/    [ I'll probably be the only one to say that in the past 10 minutes :) ]
22:05 * lue waits for moritz_ to edit the backlog
22:05 tadzik hello lue
22:10 lichtkind good night
22:11 lichtkind left #perl6
22:14 lue 'night lichtkind o/
22:19 TimToady preview of day 24: http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=708&amp;preview=true
22:21 lue I get error 404 :/
22:21 TimToady I think only authors can see it
22:21 flussence (and you have to be logged in)
22:23 Eliazar joined #perl6
22:24 Eliazar helo
22:24 TimToady howdy
22:25 * TimToady is not a sendmail, if that's what you were expecting...
22:26 tadzik twisted, but I like it :)
22:26 Eliazar is perl6 now officially released?
22:26 * TimToady is not a sendmail, if that's NOT what you were expecting...
22:27 * allbery_b *eyeroll*
22:27 TimToady Eliazar: you'll need to define at least four of those words before we can answer you :)
22:28 Eliazar mmm... I kept hearing about some beta versions here and there.. I am just a C++ programmer and wanted something new.. :)
22:29 TimToady several perl6's have been released, but none of them implement all of the Perl 6 spec
22:29 lue well written post, TimToady++
22:29 TimToady but they're fun to play with nonetheless
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22:30 Eliazar what are major implementations the development team expect from the language?
22:30 TimToady all of them, eventually
22:30 TimToady we currently have efforts on Haskell, Parrot, CLR
22:30 TimToady more distant on JVM
22:30 Eliazar oh great..
22:30 risou joined #perl6
22:30 TimToady niecza: say "I'm running on mono"
22:31 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«I'm running on mono␤»
22:31 TimToady we find that the multiple implementations help more than they hurt, because they research different areas and share
22:31 tadzik yapsi: say "I'm Perl6 in Perl6"
22:31 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Yapsi' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval/p1/lib/parrot/2.10.1-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
22:32 tadzik :)
22:32 flussence perl6: say $*VM.split("\n").[0] # I bet this won't work on the others...
22:32 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«name      parrot␤»
22:32 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤␤»
22:32 flussence nearly...
22:33 TimToady and jnthn++'s 6model will likely have emitters for a number of backends
22:33 Eliazar TimToady: This is going to be a great language.. for me.. moving from awk to C to perl6 will be like discovering America :D.. (Now I feel old :P ) !
22:33 TimToady well, we're all very impatient to get Perl 6 here, which is why we're working on it so hard :)
22:33 TimToady have you seen the advent calendar?
22:34 TimToady http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/
22:34 sjohnson perl6: coming this christmas!
22:34 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "!"␤    expecting "::", dot, ":", "(", term postfix, operator or ","␤    at /tmp/BLFSgS1WpS line 1, column 22␤»
22:34 p6eval ..rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "coming thi"␤»
22:34 tadzik :)
22:34 flussence .oO( unexpected excitement? )
22:34 Eliazar TimToady:  checking it now
22:35 sjohnson i guess it ain't comin
22:35 saaki left #perl6
22:35 sorear old is good!
22:35 sorear I am young and I have many things yet to learn
22:35 TimToady except when it sucks, sez my joints...
22:36 Eliazar TimToady: so in general is perl6 a kind of perl5 with better OOP?
22:36 TimToady that's one way to look at it
22:36 sjohnson Eliazar: it also does a heck of a lot more than p5
22:36 sjohnson i'm excited to use it
22:36 TimToady but it also has better FP, better AOP, better almost everything
22:36 TimToady and generally is clearer to read
22:37 sjohnson nicer freenode irc channel too
22:37 abra joined #perl6
22:37 * TimToady blames au++
22:37 Khisanth joined #perl6
22:37 frettled It also has TimToady.
22:38 sorear Perl was designed in 1984, 1994, and 2004
22:38 sorear we're working to make the 2004 design a reality now
22:38 TimToady er, 1987
22:38 frettled and 2005 and 2006 and 2007 and 2008 and 2009 and 2010 and 2011 (I hope) and …
22:38 colomon TimToady++ # good post
22:38 * TimToady doesn't know how/when to publish it though
22:38 Eliazar TimToady: perl was amazing helper for analyzing log files in 90's.. I could't live without it! :)
22:38 colomon it's for the 24th, right?
22:39 TimToady colomon: yup
22:39 frettled Eliazar: it still is!
22:39 sorear we're doing a lot more transparency now
22:39 perigrin Perl (5 and 6) are still pretty amazing.
22:39 TimToady if we can only get Perl 6 running as fast as Perl 5, it'll really take off
22:39 sorear Perl 1.0.0 was ready for many types of use when it first hit usenet
22:39 saaki joined #perl6
22:40 perigrin sorear: you think you're being trasnparent ... but I can see right through that
22:40 sorear Perl 6 has been in public version control since the beginning, so it's a lot harder to answer "when are you releasing"
22:40 flussence if it was even 1/10th as fast as perl5 I'd be happy
22:40 frettled sorear: or easier: «continuously!»
22:40 colomon TimToady: I just scheduled it for noon UTC on the 24th.
22:40 perigrin flussence: well if you add all the features to perl5 to get it close to the same syntax
22:40 TimToady sorear++ was about -13 when Perl 1 came out  :)
22:40 sorear frettled: good one, I think I'll use it.
22:40 colomon I think.
22:40 perigrin then it is 1/10th as fast
22:40 TimToady no, -3, sorry
22:40 frettled sorear: \o/
22:41 Eliazar TimToady: so there is speed issues?
22:41 colomon TimToady: officially scheduled.  :)
22:41 risou left #perl6
22:42 flussence Eliazar: rakudo isn't going to win any benchmarks any time soon, but it's bearable
22:42 TimToady Eliazar: the implementation on parrot, while most feature complete, is also very slow
22:42 TimToady it really depends on what you're trying to do
22:42 TimToady I wouldn't use it for log analysis yet, unless it's a short log... :)
22:42 flussence it's like 1990s Javascript, when we're aiming for 2010 JS speed
22:42 sorear Perl 6 is defined in terms of itself in a lot of places
22:43 TimToady which means it gets recursively faster automatically as it gets faster...
22:43 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/neutro/blob/master/tmplib/Module/Install.pm -- could someone give me a hand? File::Mkdir supplies a new, 2 arg variant of mkdir(), yet the code dies with "Unexpected named parameter 'p' passed in 'mkdir' at line 5682:CORE.setting", as if it didn't include the module
22:44 TimToady and we *hope* the design will be optimizable as much as we hope it will...er...
22:44 sorear $x = $y + $z is, abstractly 2 sub calls on the surface, then another sub call to dispatch the + overload, a method call to poke the $x variable, ...
22:44 KyleHa left #perl6
22:44 sorear you need a bit of cleverness in a Perl 6 implementation to short-circuit the metacircularity when it isn't needed
22:44 risou joined #perl6
22:44 perigrin Eliazar: also keep in mind most comparisons are made against languages that have had years focusong on speed rather than finishing the spec
22:44 uasi joined #perl6
22:44 flussence tadzik: I think I came across that myself, but I didn't bother figuring out why and just used a shell command instead :)
22:45 perigrin Slow is relative
22:45 tadzik :<
22:45 Eliazar TimToady: I was just about to ask about log analyzing when you replied! I have the impression that perl5 will still be the only master for text processing .. maybe perl6 will be more general purpose like,, mmm python I guess..
22:45 TimToady sorear: but you have more than a bit of cleverness, so you could have problems :)
22:45 sorear Rakudo right now is styling itself a reference implementation; it tries to be obviously correct.  Not helping matters is that sub calls are currently the slowest part of Parrot
22:46 TimToady and that the type system of parrot has a fairly large impedence mismatch with Perl 6's model
22:46 TimToady both these should improve in the future
22:46 rindolf left #perl6
22:46 sorear relatively speaking - a raw Parrot procedure call without arguments is approximately twice as slow as a raw Perl 5 sub call
22:46 sorear while everything else is blindingly faster :)
22:46 TimToady Eliazar: our hope is that it will be just as good for logs, if not better, eventually, and also more general purpose
22:47 perigrin Eliazar: you're also missing out on some of the nicer features that came back to Perl5 from Perl6 with that analysis
22:48 Eliazar well, I used perl5.8.6 usually on my bsd servers..
22:48 gfldex Eliazar: you will be able to write parsing code that is easer to write and possible to read
22:48 gfldex in fact you can do so already
22:48 TimToady the Perl 6 parser is written in Perl 6, in fact
22:48 sjohnson std?
22:48 TimToady nodnod
22:49 Eliazar Are perl6 regexes now completely implemented?
22:49 tadzik Yep
22:49 TimToady well, largely
22:49 TimToady I don't think rakudo does lookbehinds yet
22:50 TimToady nor does it really do LTM
22:50 tadzik ah
22:50 TimToady niecza does though
22:50 TimToady LTM = longest token matching
22:50 sorear niecza does lookbehinds only for strings that decompose into a sequence of character classes
22:50 Eliazar so it is not completely done assuming rakudo is most popluar imp..
22:50 sorear like <?after abc> or <?after \s> but not <?after ba+>
22:51 TimToady mostly we implement what we need as we need it to bootstrap Perl 6 in itself
22:51 sorear I don't think anyone does full lookbehind yet
22:51 sorear also I don't think anyone has implemented ::> or <:Age(2.0..*)> yet
22:51 TimToady and it will always be subject to the constraint of "patterns that can be reversed"
22:52 TimToady not sure anyone has done <*word> yet either
22:52 Eliazar so maybe perl6 will be the first to have them..
22:53 TimToady it'll be the first to have a lot of things, so if we have to put off some of the lesser ideas till after 6.0.0, we can
22:53 TimToady fundamentals have to come before convenience features, generally
22:54 Eliazar TimToady: agree..
22:54 TimToady except insofar as convenience falls conveniently out of the fundamental design :)
22:54 Eliazar TimToady: now we are talking! :)
22:54 TimToady we're very pragmatic, except when we aren't...
22:54 Chillance joined #perl6
22:56 Eliazar TimToady: Is there any expected date for 6.0.0 ?
22:56 gfldex x-mass
22:57 sorear I think a better question is, "Is there any expected definition for 6.0.0 ?"
22:57 Eliazar sorear: You mean in terms of specs?
22:57 TimToady it will be a process of convergence with the various nearly complete implementations
22:58 gfldex what means we will notice a few days after 6.0.0 happend that 6.0.0. happend :)
22:58 TimToady much of the final spec work is expected to arise from the various impls duking it out :)
22:58 frettled Eliazar: The challenge is that the language is separate from the implementations.  The 6.0.0 spec has arguably been several years ago.
22:58 gfldex the question is "do i need 6.0.0 to start using perl6 to my hearts content?"
22:59 TimToady and where they can't agree, we put "Reliance on one behavior or another here is erroneous."
22:59 TimToady gfldex: depends on how easily your heart is contented, and by what.
23:00 Eliazar TimToady: well.. I guess it would be great to start with a minimal but very efficient version.. then start to look for the impossible (which is possible :))
23:00 gfldex my heart is lusting for proper bindings to some proper gui toolkit
23:01 gfldex and i somehow think i will have to make those bindings happen myself
23:01 colomon gfldex: that's the most reliable way to get things done.  :)
23:01 TimToady the most reliable way to get things done the way you like, at least...
23:03 lue .oO(Unless you're notoriously unreliable)
23:04 Khisanth left #perl6
23:05 envi joined #perl6
23:06 flussence gfldex: someone *was* asking when it'll have a Tk binding a while back...
23:06 flussence (personally I'd prefer something shiny-looking like gtk :)
23:06 gfldex how sad! Tk would be my last choice
23:06 colomon gfldex: then do what you want !
23:07 * tadzik was wondering about making a gtk bindings a while ago
23:07 tadzik OR
23:07 tadzik this awesome idea about a DBI for GUIs.
23:07 tadzik One interface, multiple backends
23:07 lue Qt looks particularly shiny from my KDE session :)
23:08 gfldex i would love to have Qt bindings and i have an idea to fake them into rakudo
23:09 gfldex http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/04/12/soon/
23:10 lue tadzik: I think that is a great idea. Certainly would make GUIs easier.
23:13 tadzik lue: wanna help?
23:14 gfldex the point with Qt is that you don't really need bindings, all you need to do is to pass some strings around between 2 processes
23:14 gfldex at least that's my idea
23:14 gfldex may or may not work as expected
23:14 lue Hm. I'm assuming I would have to have access to GUIs in order to really work on it.
23:14 gfldex you still with dec terminals? :->
23:15 Eliazar perl6: printf("the %s jumped over the %s ... %d times\n", "cow", "moon", 2);
23:15 p6eval pugs, rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«the cow jumped over the moon ... 2 times␤»
23:15 allbery_b I'm somewhat tempted to point out that there really isn't much of a right way to link databases to GUIs, because in the end it's the application needs (the spec) that controls
23:17 gfldex luckyly i have no intention to fiddle with DBs :)
23:17 allbery_b (ex-db freak.  very "ex")
23:17 allbery_b (...dear g-d, it's been 15 years)
23:17 tadzik allbery_b: we don't want to link dbs to guis
23:18 tadzik it's about a unified interface for drawing windows
23:19 allbery_b good luck with that one too :)
23:19 allbery_b (python.  stdwin.  learn from others' mistakes.)
23:20 lue How much RAM do you need to compile Rakudo now?
23:22 gfldex about 270MB
23:22 gfldex might be a little more in peaks
23:22 lue ooh, I should try compiling Rakudo again.
23:26 Eliazar left #perl6
23:27 Khisanth joined #perl6
23:31 estrabd is now known as estrabd_xmas
23:31 sorear but drawing windows is the window manager's job
23:31 colomon https://gist.github.com/753694 (messing around with Rosetta Code...)
23:31 Khisanth left #perl6
23:34 _kaare left #perl6
23:36 TimToady colomon: does primes() memoize?
23:37 colomon TimToady: in Math::Prime?  It's supposed to...
23:38 TimToady also, every time I see a "use" for a universal math concept, I shudder, and wonder why it isn't a built-in
23:38 * TimToady hates "use List:Utils" too...
23:39 allbery_b because there are lots of universal math concepts and we don't want to necessarily pollute the namespace?
23:39 flussence small core?
23:39 allbery_b I can count the number of times I've needed primes on the fingers of one hand
23:39 * colomon doesn't feel he can just add his own half-baked routines to the spec....
23:39 TimToady the namespace is not really polluted if any user can override in their lexical scope
23:39 nymacro joined #perl6
23:40 TimToady that's why we put such things into a setting
23:40 allbery_b (...and the number of times I needed them for something other than hash table sizing on my nose_)
23:40 * colomon but he is more than happy to make modules full of routines he would like to have available.
23:40 TimToady and the name is really the only thing that needs to be there, with some info on how to load it on demand
23:41 lue .oO(maybe a Core++ thing?)
23:41 sorear it doesn't have to be &CORE::primes
23:42 abra left #perl6
23:42 sorear we have DateTime stuff in a subnamespace of CORE; NumberTheory could be the same
23:42 colomon afk #dinner
23:44 torm left #perl6
23:45 TimToady Int::primes() would be okay
23:46 TimToady or Int::<@primes>
23:47 icwiener left #perl6
23:50 lue That seems like a good idea. Is there a defined system for this sort of situation, or do you just add stuff in a seemingly sensible way as you go?
23:52 TimToady well, it's more like: don't add it in a non-sensible way :)
23:53 TimToady I just find some kinds of module names "smelly"
23:53 * lue feels there should be a sort of Core++ system. It might make some things easier.
23:53 sjohnson it stinks!
23:54 lue I agree. Math::Prime looks unneccessary, yet I don't see it as very core-ish [ for non-mathematics languages anyway :) ]
23:56 TimToady modules ending ::Utils or ::More or ::Misc or ::Tiny are all just indications that something hasn't been factored out to be implementation dependent that ought to have been
23:56 TimToady *independent
23:59 lue There's something about how modules work in Perl 6 that seems off. I have no idea what though. The unregulated nature? The restrictive naming practices?

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