Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:04 TimToady nap &
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00:10 lue cpan6.org: "CPAN6 is not even usable on the moment (as is Perl6)." I would define the last part of that statement of very wrong. Do you agree?
00:13 sorear lue: cpan6.org hasn't actually been updated since 2004
00:14 flussence that site's very vague, handwavey, and it uses a table for layout. boo, hiss.
00:14 lue it has a presentation on it from 2008 though (or links to one)
00:15 lue S22 is horribly outdated as well.
00:17 sorear just pretend cpan6.org doesn't exist
00:17 sorear i'm sure the person who reg'd it meant well, but he's incurably out of touch with reality
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00:18 sorear cute.  gmcs emits a warning on var = var;
00:19 lue S22 seems to be the only thing that details the module system at first glance. I'm probably missing a couple other synopses though.
00:23 arnsholt Well, there's S11 as well =)
00:26 lue that's more "how to create a module" though. :)
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00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 16e4fad | sorear++ | / (2 files):
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Add rest of signature-blob handling
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/16e4fad4ef
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 19648dc | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: More misc fixes
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/19648dcc04
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 6e155a9 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Fix code generation for HOW
00:30 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6e155a9e00
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00:39 lue I'm starting to want to change how the module system works. Is S22 the only thing that details it?
00:43 mberends lue: see also S11
00:56 lue I get what :auth and :ver are for, but what is :name for?
00:56 sorear use Short:name<Long>;
01:02 lue so it's just an extra identifier? [ That's what I'm getting ]
01:03 sorear aye
01:04 sorear also useful when the "real" identifier isn't a valid Perl 6 identifier
01:04 sorear notice that :name<> is a quoting form
01:04 sorear so you could say use Short:from<java>:name<java.util.zip.ZipFile>;
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01:41 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 78c264a | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
01:41 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Fix unverifiable code generation from gather
01:41 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/78c264a240
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03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: ae2b965 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Fix Method and Param LAD node construction
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ae2b965a3c
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: a52a66c | sorear++ | / (2 files):
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Update compiler driver to use new backend
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a52a66cc4c
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 0307722 | sorear++ | Niecza.proj:
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Support new backend in XBuild harness
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0307722e84
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: 589fce1 | sorear++ | / (5 files):
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: Miscellaneous fixes to get STD/tryfile.exe working again
03:13 dalek niecza/cilbackend: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/589fce1fde
03:26 dalek Some 'sorear' person just gave me a 28643 byte commit packet.  They need to be more careful in the future.
03:26 sorear cilbackend is merged.
03:26 colomon !!!
03:26 colomon what is it?
03:26 colomon cil, I mean.
03:27 sorear Common Intermediate Language - the CLR's bytecode
03:27 sorear niecza no longer depends on a C# compiler post-install
03:28 colomon sweet!
03:28 sorear it's also a great deal faster this way
03:28 colomon I've got to try and get it up and running again sometime soon.
03:28 sorear well it might be a little easier now. :)
03:28 sorear the real break however will be when niecza stops depending on Perl 5
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03:29 takadonet1 hey all
03:29 sorear which I'm going to optimistically estimate as before the end of February
03:29 colomon sorear++
03:30 takadonet1 how do you return local time in perl6?
03:30 sorear the Perl 5 / C# boundary layer is a fragile mess
03:30 sorear rakudo: now.^methods(:local).say
03:30 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:
03:30 p6eval ..OUTPUT«newfrom-posixto-posixStrperlACCEPTSBridg​eRealBoolIntRatNumComplexrealsisNaNabsexplnsqrtro​otssignfloorceilingtruncateroundcisunpolarrandsin​asincosacostanatansecaseccosecacoseccotanacotansi​nhasinhcoshacoshtanhatanhsechasechcosechacosechco​tanhacotanhatan2Numericsuccpredloglog10to-radi…
03:31 sorear I said :local
03:31 sorear sheesh
03:31 takadonet1 hehe
03:31 TimToady rakudo: say time.^methods(:local)
03:31 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:
03:31 p6eval ..OUTPUT«perlpredsuccWHICHStrBridgeIntRatNumsignA​CCEPTSRealBoolComplexrealsisNaNabsexplnsqrtrootsf​loorceilingtruncateroundcisunpolarrandsinasincosa​costanatansecaseccosecacoseccotanacotansinhasinhc​oshacoshtanhatanhsechasechcosechacosechcotanhacot​anhatan2Numericloglog10to-radiansfrom-radians␤»
03:31 sorear rakudo: DateTime.new.^methods(:local).say
03:31 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:
03:31 p6eval ..OUTPUT«newcheck-timenowcloneclone-without-valid​atingInstantposixoffsettruncated-towhole-secondin​-timezoneutclocalDateStrperlis-leap-yeardays-in-m​onthdaycount-from-ymdymd-from-daycountget-daycoun​tday-of-monthday-of-weekweekweek-yearweek-numberw​eekday-of-monthday-of-yearcheck-valuecheck-dat…
03:31 TimToady rakudo: say time.Str
03:31 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«1293161501␤»
03:31 takadonet1 rakudo: say now
03:31 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Instant:2010-12-24T03:31:57.544364Z␤»
03:32 sorear rakudo: say DateTime.now.local
03:32 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«2010-12-24T03:32:04Z␤»
03:32 takadonet1 we have a winner!
03:32 TimToady rakudo: say DateTime.new(time)
03:32 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«2010-12-24T03:32:16Z␤»
03:32 TimToady rakudo: say DateTime.new
03:32 p6eval rakudo cae7f9:  ( no output )
03:32 * takadonet1 still hacking away on Text--Diff
03:33 colomon takadonet1++
03:33 takadonet1 i love porting a module from cpan line by line till it works 100%. Then golf it down to about half the size
03:33 takadonet1 sub signature are sweet as hell
03:35 colomon :)
03:35 takadonet1 named parameters,optional, defaults, where clauses...
03:36 takadonet1 multi
03:44 takadonet1 any word when pmichaud is back in action?
03:47 colomon not that I've heard.
03:48 takadonet1 nuts
04:17 takadonet1 night all
04:17 TimToady o/
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04:23 dalek niecza: 9c6f9fa | sorear++ | docs/announce.v1:
04:23 dalek niecza: Start drafting of v1 message
04:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9c6f9fa8a3
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04:47 diakopter sorear: restructions -> restrictions
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04:49 sorear thanks
04:50 sorear diakopter: I'm wondering if I should do anything of a deployment slant
04:50 sorear if, for instance, I provided a tarball with Kernel.dll and CLRBackend.exe, then users wouldn't need a C# compiler
04:51 sorear although I suspect the real deployment problem is Perl, and that isn't so simple
04:51 diakopter if I understand you correctly, then I'd suggest focusing on compiler features
04:52 sorear such as?
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04:55 diakopter good question :)
04:55 diakopter first, is lhf.txt up-to-date?
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04:58 sorear wait, what do you mean?
04:58 diakopter I mean, since you last edited lhf.txt, have you implemented anything listed in it
04:58 sorear "I'd suggest focusing on compiler features" --> "sorear implements native types" ?
04:59 diakopter :)
04:59 diakopter sure, why not
04:59 tobar from where can I download the spec? (not the web version) I want to be able to do a regex search of the spec.
05:00 diakopter sorear: then definitely data parallelism & concurrency system
05:00 diakopter tobar: it can be checked out from github
05:00 diakopter tobar: https://github.com/perl6/specs
05:01 dalek niecza: 6c6c686 | sorear++ | docs/announce.v1:
05:01 dalek niecza: Fix some announce typos
05:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6c6c686581
05:01 dalek niecza: 61e026e | sorear++ | docs/lhf.txt:
05:01 dalek niecza: Bring lhf.txt up to date
05:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/61e026edab
05:01 tobar diakopter: thanks. i'll look there.
05:02 tobar git clone git://github.com/perl6/specs
05:03 diakopter I dunno the exact syntax
05:03 sorear they've changed the output of mono --profile and it's not useful anymore...
05:07 diakopter it's not useful for anything?
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05:09 sorear I need to figure out how it's useful
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05:14 diakopter http://www.mono-project.com/Performance_Tips  "Assisting the Garbage Collector" is interesting
05:14 diakopter I mean, I've done that before in previous sprixel/perlesque iterations... but I didn't know it was a recommended/suggested practice.
05:16 sorear yes
05:16 sorear especially important if you're using the boehm GC
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05:35 sorear diakopter: if you want to know my plans for the next 1-2 months... it's basically all a programme to get &eval working
05:36 sorear and since Perl 5 and the CLR don't get along well together, at all, that means incrementally rewriting the compiler in other languages
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06:00 notostraca2 quick question: are there any GUI toolkits/frameworks that work with Perl 6 at this point in time?
06:00 araujo doubt it
06:00 notostraca2 oh well
06:01 notostraca2 time to go to #falcon , another language with a ton of features that not enough people know
06:01 sorear there is a proof of concept app which displays "Hello, world" using Tk then crashes when you push the close butto
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06:02 sorear egh.
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06:34 dalek niecza: dba7c34 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
06:34 dalek niecza: Assorted small optimizations to the CLR bytecode emitter
06:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dba7c342e9
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07:18 dalek niecza: 0f5c4a0 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
07:18 dalek niecza: Suppress runtime type checks for reference frame slot accesses
07:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0f5c4a0dea
07:28 sorear playing with the new mono heap profiler... it looks like > 2/3 of the residency while STD is parsing itself is Dictionary<K,V>
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07:34 diakopter sorear: cool :D
07:34 diakopter sorear: is that lexical scope implementation? or what?
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07:56 sorear diakopter: I think it's @*MEMOS[$pos]<ws>
07:56 sorear since there are about 200k hashes and about 200k character positions in STD.pm6
07:56 sorear "2/3 of the residency" means 120MB or so
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08:24 blackpirate rakudo: use v6;my $abc = prompt 'where are you from'; say "which continent is $abc in";
08:24 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«where are you fromwhich continent is Land der Berge, Land am Strome, in␤»
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08:26 blackpirate hi  everyone i wrote this script above.i got this output.where did 'Land der Berge, Land am Strome' come from in the output ?
08:27 tadzik blackpirate: it's from some country's national anthem, it's used as a standard input on the eval server
08:28 blackpirate ya its national anthem of austria i googled it.
08:29 blackpirate what if i want a number as input instead of a string?
08:29 sorear my $age = +(prompt 'how old are you');
08:29 sorear + converts to numeric
08:30 blackpirate thanks
08:37 tadzik or (prompt 'how old are you').Num
08:38 tadzik or even prompt('how old are you').Num
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10:57 masak oh hai, #perl6!
10:58 tadzik oh hai masak
10:58 masak this zebra is in a Christmas mood. :)
10:59 moritz_ TimToady++ # advent post
10:59 moritz_ Merry Christmas #perl6!
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11:03 masak &
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11:19 dalek niecza: 254e286 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
11:19 dalek niecza: A bit more inlining to remove all ws -> pos edges
11:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/254e286f48
11:19 dalek niecza: 191bfbf | sorear++ | lib/ (5 files):
11:19 dalek niecza: Implement a custom specialized hybrid dictionary, saves 5%
11:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/191bfbfdaa
11:20 sorear the wins from abandoning System.Collections are not as big as I had feared
11:20 sorear hi masak.
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11:21 sorear currently running 32.1
11:22 sorear still takes 190MB just to parse a 200k file
11:22 sorear which is imho unacceptable
11:22 sorear especially since I'll want to compile it too
11:23 sorear now I know why Perl 5 goes to such pains to compact parse-tree nodes, when every other data structure is practically designed to waste memory...
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11:30 moritz_ do you discard Match objects once you have built the AST from them?
11:39 moritz_ sorear: any niecza plans for 2011 which I could/should mention in my "perl 6 in 2010" blog post?
11:49 masak sorear: you seem to have backlogged already, but I just wanted to say that even being impressed by niecza from the start, during the past 24 hours I've gained a few more notches of respect for it.
11:50 masak sorear: I can easily seen niecza becoming my implementation-of-choice in the not-so-far future.
11:51 moritz_ masak: and remember to submit bug reports (and TODO tickets) for things that don't work yet :-)
11:51 masak moritz_: wouldn't miss it for the world :)
11:52 masak I do agree with ggoebel though; docking with the spectests seems to be the Next Big Milestone for niecza.
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11:59 masak darnit, why do you have to have so interesting discussions when I'm distracted by Christmas Eve? :)
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12:56 takadonet morning all
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13:14 takadonet wow.... no one alive
13:17 * moritz_ is very dead
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13:19 moritz_ http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/bilder​/schnee954_mtb-1_pos-4.html#colsStructure merry christmas!
13:21 masak morning, takadonet.
13:28 moritz_ http://abstrusegoose.com/329
13:28 takadonet so how's our page views for advent calendar>
13:28 takadonet ?>
13:28 moritz_ 1.4k yesterday, 0.8k today
13:29 moritz_ no way
13:29 moritz_ 1.4k day before yesterday, 0.8k yesterday, 0.4k today
13:30 moritz_ 28.5k this month
13:30 takadonet better then last year?
13:30 moritz_ nope, last year was 45.9k
13:30 takadonet nuts
13:30 moritz_ which included slashdot and a twitter link by tim o'reilly
13:31 moritz_ but I still think that this year was a great success
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13:32 takadonet well cannot wait to link your end of the year perl 6 post :)
13:32 masak TimToady: nice post. on a course enough granularity, that was exactly what I expected you to write. :)
13:32 moritz_ and the webmaster tools show that about 280 people have subscribed to the advent RSS feed via google's feed reader
13:33 masak in some subtle ways, this year was a greater success than last year, even.
13:33 moritz_ (which doesn't include those that follow via planetsix, which I think is an even larger number)
13:38 * colomon was very interested to discover it actually is "troll the ancient yule-tide carol", even though you can find lovely "explanations" on the web of why the word should be "toll".
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14:00 moritz_ phenny: tell sorear that niecza build on debian requires libmono2.0-cil -- would be nice to have in the README.pod
14:00 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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14:11 masak colomon: for me, it gave a new depth to the trololololo song. :-P
14:13 masak sorear++ # cilbackend merged! o.O \o/
14:13 takadonet cilbackend?
14:13 takadonet was it abranch?
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14:23 masak takadonet: yes, sorear is building niecza away from dotnet+perl5, and towards just dotnet.
14:28 takadonet masak: sweet
14:30 tadzik isn't that away from C#?
14:33 tadzik and the next big step is to move it away from perl5?
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14:34 tadzik 0427       sorear | niecza no longer depends on a C# compiler post-install
14:34 tadzik 0428       sorear | the real break however will be when niecza stops depending on Perl 5
14:35 tadzik ah, I misread what you meant
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16:10 kthakore Happy Holidays!!!
16:12 vert2_ happy holidays to you too
16:13 sjn Merry christmas :)
16:14 sjn happy yule-tide, really :)
16:14 sjn nice advent calendar post today, btw
16:14 sjn TimToady++
16:15 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eqv​z4/larry_wall_on_cultural_hacking_perl_6_advent/ upvote :)
16:23 lopnor is now known as lopaway
16:23 * sjn never bothered to create a reddit account :-/
16:23 takadonet TimToady: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming​/comments/eqvz4/larry_wall_on_cultu​ral_hacking_perl_6_advent/c1a7m31
16:26 * kthakore hugs everyone! :D
16:27 kthakore vert2_: :D
16:27 vert2_ kthakore: hi
16:27 colomon o/
16:27 kthakore \o
16:28 kthakore colomon: Epic Internet HIGH FIVE!
16:28 colomon o|
16:28 vert2_ \o/
16:28 vert2_ 2 handed.
16:28 kthakore I don't know what to do with that so you get a HUG!
16:28 kthakore *:HUG:*
16:29 kthakore rakudo: *:HUG:*
16:29 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "*:HUG:*"␤»
16:29 kthakore hahaha
16:29 kthakore I confused the poor bot with feelings from a hug
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16:58 masak Merry Christmas, everyone.
16:59 masak also, today is the last day to sign up for http://strangelyconsistent.org/b​log/masaks-perl-6-coding-contest
17:00 takadonet masak: how many people signed up?
17:00 masak haven't checked my email today, but we were up to 12 last I looked.
17:00 masak er, s/we/they/ :)
17:01 takadonet http://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/eqyze/l​ast_day_to_signup_for_perl_6_coding_contest/
17:03 masak excellent. thanks. :)
17:07 masak I tweeted about it as well.
17:08 * takadonet going to submit the tweet to reddit....
17:22 uasi joined #perl6
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17:39 TimToady the reddit comment by FeepingCreature is ironic given that I was probably the first to use the term "feeping creaturism" on the net
17:40 ch3ck left #perl6
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17:45 sjn heh
17:46 TimToady hug = troll⁻¹
17:48 MayDaniel left #perl6
17:51 TimToady maybe we need a troll⁻¹me bot
17:53 TimToady due to character set restrictions, we might have to name it the arctrollmebot
17:54 sbp call it xn--trollme-na81cta1fvu
17:54 sbp though, there you might have the length restriction...
17:59 shi joined #perl6
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18:17 rindolf joined #perl6
18:17 sjn hug * troll = 1; # whut?
18:17 rindolf Hi all.
18:18 sjn o/ rindolf
18:18 rindolf sjn: what's up?
18:18 sjn christmas eve
18:18 masonkramer joined #perl6
18:19 rindolf Maybe I'll convert my freshly written ABC Path solver to Perl 6.
18:19 rindolf Just for kicks.
18:19 sjn rindolf: sounds like a nice project for the holidays :)
18:20 sjn although I have no idea what an ABC Path is, and why it's worth resolving
18:21 rindolf sjn: solving, not resolving.
18:21 rindolf sjn: http://www.brainbashers.com/abcpath.asp - that's ABC Path.
18:22 sjn aah
18:22 rindolf sjn: we don't have holidays here in .il now.
18:22 rindolf Only a weekend.
18:22 rindolf And today it's already Friday night.
18:24 sorear good * #perl6
18:24 phenny sorear: 14:00Z <moritz_> tell sorear that niecza build on debian requires libmono2.0-cil -- would be nice to have in the README.pod
18:26 rindolf So when will the December Rakudo Star release be out?
18:28 cxreg christmas? :)
18:29 cxreg we've already had 5 christmases this year, what are you complaining about
18:30 justatheory left #perl6
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18:30 rindolf cxreg: no, I just want to package it for Mandriva Cooker.
18:32 jedai joined #perl6
18:33 jedai_ left #perl6
18:33 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_delta_tablet
18:36 industry__ left #perl6
18:37 tacullum joined #perl6
18:37 sorear moritz_: this is just STD being tested, no AST is being built at all... which is why 190M troubles me so
18:38 sorear moritz_: in 2010?  bootstrapping, &eval, spectests are my medium-term plans
18:39 shortcircuit Ok, so 'say "hello, there, &title($person)"' will call the subroutine named 'title', and also process a variable named $person.
18:40 shortcircuit How might one escape specific symbols? Say I didn't want it to call &title, but still interpolate $person?
18:40 flussence \& I'm assuming
18:41 takadonet i have some passing tests!!!!
18:41 TimToady rakudo: my $person = "shortcircuit"; say "hello, there, \&title($person)";
18:41 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello, there, &title(shortcircuit)␤»
18:41 takadonet https://github.com/Takadonet/Text--Diff
18:42 shortcircuit TimToady: The implication is that the symbol &title doesn't exist in-scope, but if I wanted to avoid that biting me accidentally?
18:42 takadonet cya everyone!
18:42 shortcircuit (i.e. if the symbol were defined later)
18:42 takadonet left #perl6
18:42 TimToady it wouldn't bite you unless you actually deref it with ()
18:43 TimToady rakudo: say "hi &title"
18:43 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hi &title␤»
18:43 TimToady only $ can interpolate without some kind of bracketing
18:43 TimToady this also solves the accidental @ and % interpolations
18:43 abra left #perl6
18:44 shortcircuit Hm. Seems \ works if the routine is defined, as well as if it's not.
18:44 shortcircuit I like belt-and-suspenders, myself. :)
18:44 TimToady rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello @array"
18:44 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello @array␤»
18:44 TimToady rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello @array[]"
18:44 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello a b c␤»
18:45 TimToady so email address no longer accidentally interpolate arrays
18:45 TimToady *es
18:45 shortcircuit Hm.
18:46 TimToady \ has no knowledge of whether it's quoting something defined, it just quotes the next char
18:46 shortcircuit 'sometext' with the ~ operator handles the more general case.
18:46 rindolf TimToady: happy Christmas.
18:46 shortcircuit I couldn't find the string concatenation operator yesterday. Shoulda poked around on Rosetta Code. :)
18:46 TimToady rindolf: merry hanuka :)
18:46 rindolf TimToady: heh, it was over a few weeks ago.
18:47 rindolf TimToady: but thanks.
18:48 tacullum left #perl6
18:48 TimToady shortcircuit: the general interpolator is just a closure in {...}
18:49 TimToady rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello {@array} there"
18:49 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello a b c there␤»
18:50 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet
18:53 rindolf left #perl6
18:55 Axius How can I use p6eval to run code?
18:55 cottoo is now known as cotto
18:56 sorear rakudo: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello {@array} there"
18:56 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello a b c there␤»
18:56 cotto left #perl6
18:56 sorear niecza: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello {@array} there"
18:56 p6eval niecza 406e042: OUTPUT«Can't locate JSON.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/p6eval/niecza/src /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NAMBackend.pm
18:56 p6eval ..line 9…
18:56 cotto joined #perl6
18:56 sorear ops
18:57 sorear phenny: tell moritz_ Would you install JSON::XS on niecza's p6eval perl?  Thanks.
18:57 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when moritz_ is around.
18:57 sorear pugs: my @array = <a b c>; say "hello {@array} there"
18:57 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«hello a b c there␤»
18:57 abra joined #perl6
18:58 Axius rakudo: say 34 + 3;
18:58 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«37␤»
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19:09 Axius my $name = "axius"; say "Hello, $name there"
19:10 Axius rakudo: my $name = "axius"; say "Hello, $name there"
19:10 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Hello, axius there␤»
19:11 Eevee left #perl6
19:13 TimToady hugme: hug Axius
19:13 TimToady ENOHUGBOT
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19:18 Axius rakudo: my $name = "Tim"; say "Hi to $name"
19:18 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«Hi to Tim␤»
19:21 dd070 joined #perl6
19:22 lue hello world o/
19:22 * colomon just realized his recipe calls for 9x13 pans, but all he's got is 8x11
19:23 sorear cm? in?
19:23 colomon in
19:26 Patterner left #perl6
19:26 flussence or a matrix of pans?
19:27 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:27 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
19:27 colomon It's a matrix of them now.  I had to have an overflow pan
19:29 colomon rakudo: say 10 * 2/3; say 5 * 2/3; say 4 * 2/3
19:29 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«6.66666666666667␤3.3333​3333333333␤2.66666666666667␤»
19:29 colomon (proportions for my next one....)
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19:47 newbie_ hi, I was asked to create a hangman game in my class, I was thinking of using perl6, but I am wondering if it has nice GUI module integrated with it (tk, wx, qt) ? that would make it look better than console/Dos based game.. any advice plz ^_^
19:48 lue Sorry, there isn't any GUI module available for Perl 6 right now (at least as far as I'm aware)
19:49 newbie_ oh.. too bad :(
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19:56 cxreg i looked a bit at Gtk but it seemed worth waiting on gsoc_nci
19:58 cxreg which is apparently merged now, woot
19:58 dd070 newbie_: for now you can use perl5 with wx or gtk.
19:59 cxreg he's gone
19:59 dd070 newbie is gone
19:59 dd070 to perl5
20:00 lue That's I think the third time in two days someone's come to ask about a GUI. I think it's time for a GUI :)
20:00 sorear I think it's the same person, using proxies to troll us.
20:00 cxreg that might be a good way for ffi to stretch its legs
20:00 * cxreg pulls
20:01 dd070 I can use wx but not developed wx.
20:05 dd070 left #perl6
20:06 dd070 joined #perl6
20:06 cxreg ah looks like zavolaj might need work first
20:08 plobsing cxreg: Gtk could be even more awesome with reprs working (nom). Seems there's always something to be waiting for.
20:09 lopaway is now known as lopnor
20:11 cxreg true dat
20:13 plobsing not that you should wait. A decent GUI is the last piece of the puzzle for some, it would seem.
20:14 cxreg i'm a bit confused
20:14 cxreg is gsoc_nci/libffi different from parrot-libjit-fb
20:15 plobsing yes, they are different, although they make use of the same mechanisms and provide the same thing
20:16 plobsing parrot-libjit-fb remains because (a) I suspect it is more efficient (b) It is a cleaner implementation in some ways (c) I'm too lazy to take it down
20:17 plobsing the (suspected) efficiency and clenliness are simply a property of the methods of operation of libjit vs libffi
20:18 cxreg ah ok
20:18 cxreg zavolaj specifically mentions wanting to support parrot-libjit-fb
20:18 colomon rakudo: my $a = * ~ *; say $a("hello ", "world);
20:18 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
20:19 colomon rakudo: my &a = * ~ *; say &a("hello ", "world);
20:19 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
20:19 colomon rakudo: my &a = * ~ *; say &a("hello ", "world");
20:19 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
20:19 colomon rakudo: my &a = * ~ *.substr(2); say &a("hello ", "world");
20:19 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«hello rld␤»
20:20 cxreg though mberends added that comment back in may
20:20 cxreg before gsoc, presumably
20:20 plobsing cxreg: they provide the same API. All frame builders for parrot shall provide the same API. gsoc_nci tried to provide extensions and wound up not parsing correctly (a problem *every* frame builder has had at one point or another), so now noone gets to do that ever.
20:21 cxreg no one gets to do what?
20:21 plobsing gets to parse the signature string and provide extensions to the signature syntax
20:21 cxreg oh, by decree of someone in #parrot?
20:21 plobsing that would be me.
20:21 cxreg ah :)
20:22 plobsing I've seen the problem 4 times now. It is subtle and hard to debug, and I'm *not* going there again.
20:22 cxreg maybe if we had a full cpp? :)
20:23 gimix joined #perl6
20:23 plobsing If only people would use such canned solutions more often. cpp isn't all that bad, I'm using it for Ωη.
20:24 dju left #perl6
20:27 dukeleto hola
20:28 dukeleto how does one pronounce Ωη ?
20:28 plobsing ohm-eta (a pun on ometa)
20:29 dukeleto plobsing: nice :)
20:29 dukeleto plobsing: i knew the letters but didn't understand the pun
20:33 sorear c preprocessor?
20:33 lopnor is now known as lopaway
20:34 lue rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B>+ } proto regex B { <...> }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; say A.parse("CcCcDd")
20:34 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
20:35 lue rakudo: grammar A { regex TOP { <B>+ }; proto regex B { <...> }; multi regex B:sym<C> { Cc }; multi regex B:sym<D> { Dd }; }; say A.parse("CcCcDd")
20:35 p6eval rakudo cae7f9: OUTPUT«CcCcDd␤»
20:36 plobsing sorear: yes. it has its uses.
20:37 sorear how does cpp relate to libffi?
20:37 plobsing not at all really
20:46 lue afk
20:47 gimix Hello, my web service is using perl 5.10 and it is designed as procedure style programming. I would like to ask you about OOP in Perl. I want to apply some design pattern but I have considered about performance. Does application get poor performance when OOP is applied?
20:49 tadzik not really. The paradigm doesn't affect performance directly
20:49 tadzik Also, this channel is about Perl 6 specifically
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20:50 tadzik the modules you may want to be using when writing OOPerl (Moose) may affect performance
20:50 dd070 left #perl6
20:50 jameswhite When did it perl6 get released?
20:50 tadzik #define released
20:51 tadzik there are releases appearing montly
20:51 jameswhite Ah, ok.
20:51 tadzik assuming by perl6 you mean Perl 6 Compilers
20:54 gimix thanks all. what is different perl5.10 (Moose) with perl 6? OOP will be built in core of language? So when I upgrade to perl6 what things I should have consideration.
20:54 abra left #perl6
20:55 gimix because my current system is working in stable but source code could not reusable.
20:57 sorear if your system is working there's no reason to upgrade.
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21:02 tadzik gimix: in Perl 6 you get OOP for free. But think twice before using Perl 6 in production code
21:04 gimix tadzik: yes, what's your thinking?
21:05 tadzik gimix: about what?
21:06 gimix tadzik: what does you mean? --> But think twice before using Perl 6 in production code..
21:06 MayDaniel left #perl6
21:08 sorear there are no implementations of Perl 6 that can compete with perl5 or CPython in aggregate performance
21:10 gimix sorear: you mean there are no different things except OOP is built in it?
21:11 felliott left #perl6
21:11 tadzik hell no
21:11 Bonham left #perl6
21:12 tadzik Perl 6 is Very different, but that's not the issue. The issue is that implementations are not mature yet
21:16 gimix yes, thanks so much
21:19 tadzik you're welcome. You can help Perl 6 implementations to get mature, the easiest way to contribute is to write and use Perl 6
21:20 dju joined #perl6
21:21 gimix tadzik: sure, I am a fan of object oriented :)
21:22 shortcircuit http://developers.slashdot.org/story/10/12/24/​1934221/23-Years-of-Culture-Hacking-With-Perl
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22:02 dalek niecza: abd12f0 | sorear++ | v6/tryfile:
22:02 dalek niecza: [v6] Use a dedicated array for line number memos
22:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/abd12f02c5
22:03 sorear takes max rss down from 200mb to 170mb
22:03 sorear still far from where I want it, but a clear improvement
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22:07 thejaanbaz Hello
22:07 sjohnson hi
22:09 thejaanbaz pretty slow looks like
22:10 tadzik hm?
22:10 thejaanbaz left #perl6
22:14 sjohnson lot of people think perl6 is like a singles bar for meeting new people
22:15 tadzik so it isn't? :(
22:16 * tadzik has left #perl6 ("Sad panda")
22:16 tadzik even hugme's gone
22:17 sjohnson heheh
22:17 gimix left #perl6
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22:22 finanalyst joined #perl6
22:24 finanalyst hi. i just did a git pull on rakudo, ran Config.pl with --gen-parrot. Ran perl6 and got: Incompatible versions of `core_ops' oplib. Found 2.11.0 but loaded 2.10.1
22:24 zero_ve left #perl6
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22:56 moritz_ flussence: rm -rf parrot_install
22:56 phenny moritz_: 18:57Z <sorear> tell moritz_ Would you install JSON::XS on niecza's p6eval perl?  Thanks.
22:56 flussence wrong \t?
22:58 moritz_ flussence: sorry, meant finanalyst
22:59 fgdfgdsfgdfsg joined #perl6
22:59 moritz_ phenny: tell finanalyst please try rm -rf parrot_install to get rid of the incomptaible core_ops versions
22:59 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when finanalyst is around.
22:59 fgdfgdsfgdfsg left #perl6
23:00 moritz_ sorear: should be installed now
23:02 moritz_ 3.7k hits on advent post, partly due to slashdot
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