Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2010-12-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 dalek niecza: 9343a2c | pmurias++ | docs/nam.pod:
00:00 dalek niecza: document the sink op
00:00 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9343a2c559
00:00 sbp could call them the Orders. Perl 1 was doric, Perl 2 Ionic. Perl 3 was Corinthian, and Perl 4 was Composite. Perl 5 was baroque, and you can insert your own Perl 6 architecture joke here
00:01 masak sbp: I like. and, by extension, Perl 6 is the Chaos. :)
00:02 sbp a Camelia flaps its wings in Brazil and a Perl 6 happens in a tiny shack in JAPH's mind
00:02 masak a tiny bikeshed, more like...
00:02 * masak hides
00:03 sbp :-)
00:06 MysqlForumTroll Perl 7 will be called Madonna because Madonna is seven letters long.
00:06 masak MysqlForumTroll: I can see no flaw in your logic.
00:06 masak MysqlForumTroll: what's your impression of Perl 6 so far?
00:07 MysqlForumTroll masak: Still lokng at syntax
00:07 masak understandable.
00:07 masak MysqlForumTroll: you had been using Perl 5 before, yes?
00:08 MysqlForumTroll masak: I like the new function prototyping syntax with the arguments in-line.
00:08 masak me too.
00:08 MysqlForumTroll masak: But also C++, some PHP, and Java
00:09 masak sometimes when I code in Perl 5, I start writing a function signature... then I go "oh, right :/"
00:09 masak the lapses only last a couple of seconds, generally.
00:09 MysqlForumTroll My only concern with Perl 6 is making sure I have stuff I need like postgres, good integration with a web server, etc
00:10 masak I wish there was more I could say to allay that concern. in truth, it's a bit of a Wild West right now.
00:10 sbp just pop the old "v6; use v6; use Perl:<6.*>; use Perl:ver<6.*>; module GLOBAL; my $xmlns = 'http://perl6.org/perl6';" at the top, easily fixed
00:10 masak things are untidy and up-for-grabs.
00:10 sorear sbp: "postmodern"
00:11 sbp sorear: your submission for a PERL-6 algorithm name has been received by NIST and progressed to the final round. you should hear more about the result some time in 2012, as long as your implementation is not so fast as to scare the algorithmic crap out of us
00:11 lue left #perl6
00:16 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
00:16 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
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00:17 lue joined #perl6
00:18 lue hello again o/
00:19 wolverian masak: MooseX::Declare (;
00:19 masak rakudo: "0123456789", { .substr(1) ~ .substr(0, 1) } ...^ "0123456789"
00:19 p6eval rakudo a52525:  ( no output )
00:19 masak rakudo: .say for "0123456789", { .substr(1) ~ .substr(0, 1) } ...^ "0123456789"
00:20 p6eval rakudo a52525:  ( no output )
00:20 wolverian (re: sub signatures)
00:20 masak wolverian: *nod*
00:20 masak wolverian: I've used it occasionally. it's a good idea.
00:20 wolverian I'm actually using it at work now.
00:20 wolverian and Moose::Autobox.
00:20 masak wolverian: thing is, some things are too "small" for Moose, and then I don't use it.
00:20 wolverian sure.
00:21 masak rakudo: .say for "1234567890", { .substr(1) ~ .substr(0, 1) } ...^ "0123456789"
00:21 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«1234567890␤2345678901␤3456789012␤4567890123␤5678901234␤6789012345␤7890123456␤8901234567␤9012345678␤»
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00:32 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
00:35 MysqlForumTroll is now known as Telsa2point0
00:37 masak rakudo: .say for [1..4], *.reverse ... [1..4].reverse
00:37 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4␤3␤2␤1␤»
00:37 masak is this right? :/
00:37 masak rakudo: .WHAT.say for [1..4], *.reverse ... [1..4].reverse
00:37 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«Array()␤Int()␤Int()␤Int()␤»
00:38 colomon ai ai ai
00:38 masak what demotes it from Array to Int?
00:38 masak was it something I said? :/
00:39 colomon that line hurts my vicodin-adled brain
00:39 wolverian I can't read that line at all :)
00:39 wolverian the second part anyway
00:39 masak don't you guys start, too... :P
00:39 colomon rakudo: say ([1..4], *.reverse ... [1..4].reverse).perl
00:39 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(([1, 2, 3, 4]), [3, 2, 1])␤»
00:39 masak huh.
00:40 masak ...*what*?
00:40 colomon rakudo: (*.reverse)([1..4])
00:40 p6eval rakudo a52525:  ( no output )
00:40 masak rakudo: say (*.reverse)([1..4])
00:40 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«4321␤»
00:41 colomon rakudo: say ([1,2,3,4], *.reverse ... [1..4].reverse).perl
00:41 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(([1, 2, 3, 4]), [3, 2, 1])␤»
00:41 colomon why does it stop, I wonder?
00:42 colomon rakudo: say (*.reverse)([1..4]).perl
00:42 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(4, 3, 2, 1)␤»
00:42 masak why does it stop? why does it arrive at [3, 2, 1]?!?
00:43 lue rakudo: say ([1,2,3,4], *.reverse ... [1..5].reverse).perl
00:43 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
00:43 colomon oh!
00:43 colomon lue++
00:43 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
00:43 * masak is still *completely* lost
00:43 lue I guess I just did something important.
00:43 colomon rakudo: say ([1,2,3,4], *.reverse ... *)[^4].perl
00:43 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«([1, 2, 3, 4], (4, 3, 2, 1), (1, 2, 3, 4), (4, 3, 2, 1))␤»
00:44 masak something with... Parcels...?
00:44 * masak still doesn't see it
00:44 masak it must be late where I am.
00:45 colomon Second [1..4].reverse is being treated like it is .... 4, 3, 2, 1
00:45 masak oh!
00:45 masak colomon++
00:45 colomon rakudo: say [1, 2, 3, 4] ~~ 4
00:45 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:46 colomon so it returns the first element, then the termination test passes, then it throws in 3, 2, 1 as extra RHS elements.
00:46 colomon afk
00:46 masak :)
00:48 lue rakudo: my @a = <code test debug> ... "done"; # ooc
00:48 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
00:48 xinming left #perl6
00:49 lue If I could find out a way to make <code test debug> cycle continuously... [until you're "done", of course]
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00:53 colomon rakudo: say (<code test debug> xx *)[^10].perl
00:53 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"))␤»
00:53 colomon rakudo: say (<code test debug> xx *).flat[^10].perl
00:53 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«("code", "test", "debug", "code", "test", "debug", "code", "test", "debug", "code")␤»
00:54 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
00:56 colomon or if you don't like that
00:57 colomon rakudo: say ({"code", "test", "debug"} ... "done")[^10].perl
00:57 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"))␤»
00:58 colomon rakudo: say ({"code", "test", "debug"} ... "done").flat.[^10].perl
00:58 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«(("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"), ("code", "test", "debug"))␤»
00:58 colomon errr.... not sure about the lack of flat there.
00:58 colomon that may be a sequence op bug.
00:58 lue It's my first stab at masak's mini-contest ^^^. I'll probably come up with more clever uses later :) .
00:58 colomon mini-contest?
00:59 * colomon is still working on masak's big contest
01:00 lue [14:10:44 (PST)] <masak> new mini-contest: find inspiring and out-of-the-box uses of the sequence operator!
01:00 lue [22:10 UTC I believe]
01:00 colomon ah
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01:01 masak I'm still struggling with an entry to my own mini-contest.
01:01 masak seriously evil code.
01:05 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
01:06 colomon rakudo: my @church := -> &f { -> $x { $x } }, -> &g { -> &f { -> $x { &f(&g(&f)($x)); }; }; } ... *
01:06 p6eval rakudo a52525:  ( no output )
01:07 colomon rakudo: my @church := -> &f { -> $x { $x } }, -> &g { -> &f { -> $x { &f(&g(&f)($x)); }; }; } ... *; say @church[4]
01:07 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«_block188␤»
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01:07 colomon dunno if that's right or not, too lazy to find out atm
01:07 colomon http://justrakudoit.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/church-numerals/
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01:11 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:14 * masak thinks that the Perl 6 variant of the Schwartzian Transform will be "make list into pairs, do a .grep or a .first on the values, then read out the keys"
01:16 masak rakudo: say [3, 4, 1000, 5, 1].pairs.max(*.value).key
01:16 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«2␤»
01:16 TimToady I tend to do it the other way around, with the .value being the payload, and the .key being the schwartzified data
01:16 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
01:16 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:16 masak TimToady: how would you write the above?
01:17 lopaway is now known as lopnor
01:17 masak by the way, "schwartzified data" is a really beautiful phrase.
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01:18 masak "Look, the data isn't gone, it's just schwartzified!"
01:19 TimToady well, in this case the index is the schwartzified data--you'd do pairs to get the keys to look at
01:19 masak true.
01:20 masak and I can't really argue that it should be the other way, because those indexes are the array equivalent of keys.
01:20 masak so it's just a wrinkle in the waterbed mattress, I guess.
01:20 colomon masak: snippet from my p4: $board.stones.pairs.grep(*.value).map(*.key).join(', ')
01:20 masak nice.
01:21 colomon I was pleased, for sure.  :)
01:21 masak looking forward to everybody's solutions.
01:22 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
01:22 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:22 masak I think I will send out an email to all 18 contestants tomorrow, urging people to submit early and not to sit on solutions too long.
01:22 colomon ooo, why?
01:22 * colomon wants to make his solutions purty
01:22 masak not because I will judge latecomers differently... just that I want many solutions. :)
01:23 masak sure, feel free to polish your solutions, if you think you have enough time.
01:23 colomon I'm quite curious if anyone other than moritz_ and I will finish.
01:23 * colomon is still being optimistic that his p5 will work one day
01:23 * masak divulges nothing
01:23 TimToady for examples of schwartzianness, see both solutions in http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hofstadter-Conway_$10,000_sequence#Perl_6
01:24 TimToady it relies on the fact that max on a pair compares the keys before the values
01:24 masak sounds familiar.
01:24 TimToady since max is really just a mini-sort
01:24 masak yes, I've seen that one.
01:24 masak .max is .sort[*-1] :)
01:25 TimToady the Z=> is particularly fun
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01:25 masak yeah, that's one of moritz_' favorites.
01:25 TimToady it can be viewed as a say of attaching (void*) data :)
01:25 TimToady *way
01:25 masak :)
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01:27 masak TimToady: hey, you're nesting if-for-if statement modifiers!
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01:27 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
01:27 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:30 TimToady masak: which is perfectly fine as long as you parenthesize
01:30 masak right.
01:30 masak so the parsing rules allowing if-inside-for but not vice versa are more for the parser than for the programmer?
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01:31 TimToady it's more to prevent people from writing list comprehensions backwards
01:32 TimToady since a lot of languages put the conditional to the right of the loop, despite it logically going inside
01:32 colomon I've got some sort of weird wrong line number in error issue going on with my p5 code.  :\
01:32 TimToady is there an if/then/else?
01:33 masak TimToady: I see. hadn't really noticed that other languages have it backwards.
01:33 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
01:34 Telsa2point0 is now known as Fuld
01:34 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Haskell for instance
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01:35 TimToady or http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:OCaml
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01:35 TimToady gah
01:36 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/List_comprehensions#Haskell
01:36 masak ah.
01:36 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/List_comprehensions#OCaml
01:36 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/List_comprehensions#Python
01:37 masak I see it with Python. Think I'm too tired to see it with Haskell and O'Caml.
01:38 masak those two don't seem to nest at all.
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01:40 lue blag toast! https://rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/core-plus-plus-concept/
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01:42 masak lue: seems to me what you call "Core++", pmichaud calls "different distributions of the same implemenatation". note that your solutions is singular, while pmichaud's is plural.
01:42 masak solution*
01:42 sjohnson Oh Camel
01:42 masak lue: (and I do like your thinking posts. keep'em coming.)
01:43 lue I've never heard of pmichaud talk about that. Then again, I've only seen pmichaud in backlog form lately...
01:43 masak pmichaud: have you listened to the recent interview with pmichaud?
01:44 masak er, meant to lue.
01:44 masak lue: he mentions it there.
01:44 lue I just want a nice solution to that "should it be core?" tug-of-war. This is the first idea off the top of my head.
01:44 lue I have not seen that interview.
01:44 masak I first heard him talk of the idea during YAPC::EU 2009.
01:46 lue your description of what pmichaud talks about sounds similar to Fedora Spins, if I'm not mistaken. Fedora for artists, Fedora for mathematicians, Fedora for Time Lords, etc.
01:47 masak lue: http://www.twit.tv/floss140
01:47 masak it's a long interview, but I think you'll enjoy the historical perspective.
01:49 lue please wait several moments while I download and convert the audio from .mp3 to .ogg ...
01:49 * lue screams "I need a new computer!" to himself
01:50 masak actually, I'm going to bedz.
01:50 masak 'night.
01:50 masak left #perl6
01:52 lue I'll deal with that later. afk!
02:00 lopnor hello, is there anyone who can't download rakudo-star-2010-12 with 403 error?
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02:05 flussence lopnor: yep, broken here too
02:06 lopnor ah, i'm not the only one...
02:10 colomon lopnor: what url are you using?
02:10 lopnor it's redirected and finally http://cloud.github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/rakudo-star-2010.12.tar.gz
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02:11 lopnor it failed from my home (japan) and ec2(us-west), ec2(ireland).
02:12 lopnor i think it's s3 or github problem.
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02:20 colomon I can verify I get access denied as well.  Sigh.
02:25 sjohnson doh!
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03:10 diakopter lopnor: I was able to download it from https://github.com/downloads/rakudo/rakudo/rakudo-2010.12.tar.gz
03:10 diakopter oops
03:10 diakopter that's not star
03:11 diakopter (sorry, yeah, I get access denied on star)
03:11 lopnor yes, i need star.
03:11 dalek sprixel: 7634713 | diakopter++ | / (7 files):
03:11 dalek sprixel: fixed linebreak-terminated block statements.  *finally*.
03:11 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/763471387e
03:35 sorear rakudo: say ord "ab";
03:35 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«97␤»
03:35 sorear rakudo: say ord "";
03:35 p6eval rakudo a52525:  ( no output )
03:35 sorear rakudo: say ord ""; say "alive"
03:35 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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03:45 moq is there a mirror for rakudo 12? http://cloud.github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/rakudo-star-2010.12.tar.gz is broken.
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03:48 moq anybody know how to get a hold of pmichaud?  http://cloud.github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/rakudo-star-2010.12.tar.gz is broken.
03:48 moq nm, found his pobox
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04:41 sorear perl6: say ord("").perl
04:41 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤       'ord' used at line 1␤Check failed␤»
04:41 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«undef␤»
04:42 sorear rakudo: say ord("").WHAT
04:42 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
04:42 sorear undef, really?
04:47 TimToady maybe it just stringifies to that?
04:47 TimToady anyway, definitely a bit suboptimal
04:47 TimToady rakudo: say Failure.perl
04:47 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«Failure␤»
04:48 TimToady rakudo: say ord("").PARROT
04:48 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«Failure␤»
04:49 TimToady rakudo: say ord("").perl
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04:49 p6eval rakudo a52525: OUTPUT«undef␤»
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04:51 TimToady ooh, spectests hung in reverse.t
04:51 flussence the undef comes from rakudo/src/builtins/Exception.pir:92
04:51 flussence if anyone's curious
04:51 sorear Now that perl no longer requires a specific encoding, do ~& et al still make sense?
04:52 TimToady they do on buffers
04:54 flussence not so useful for strings (assuming they operate on codepoints there at all)
04:54 TimToady looks like nesting.t is going to hang too
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04:56 TimToady makes a nice lap-warmer when it's 25℉
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05:07 TimToady and the trig tests appear to be busted
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05:16 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/List_comprehensions#JavaScript is also inside out, along with Haskell, OCaml, and Python
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05:19 TimToady I'm only counting the ones that are structured as TUPLE, LISTS, GUARD, not the ones that are LISTS, GUARD, TUPLE, which are really just standard loops
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06:26 sorear S03:2131 is a glaring fossil
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07:00 JimmyZ hello, speaking of hosting rakudo.org on wordpress.com, Can I visit it if it's on wordpress.com?
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07:33 dalek niecza: b709f82 | sorear++ | v6n/C (2 files):
07:33 dalek niecza: [v6] Add Perl6 translation of CgOp
07:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b709f820a4
07:33 dalek niecza: 520f58d | sorear++ | lib/Builtins.cs:
07:33 dalek niecza: Add builtins for chr, ord, +|, +&, +^
07:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/520f58d98b
07:33 dalek niecza: 4ff9853 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
07:33 dalek niecza: add bitshift operators
07:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4ff98535b8
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07:36 moqqq is there a perltidy fork or config for perl6?
07:44 TiMBuS i don't think so
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08:43 LeifD Is there a method like pythons dir function? So I can get what methods an object provides at runtime?
08:45 sorear $obj.^methods
08:45 LeifD Thank you
08:45 LeifD What does the ^ mean?
08:47 sanxiyn LeifD: It is .^, not ^.
08:47 sanxiyn It means meta-method call.
08:48 LeifD So methods is something larger than the object I '.^'
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09:17 dalek niecza: 2f26901 | sorear++ | v6n/CClass.pm6:
09:17 dalek niecza: [v6] Complete translation of CClass
09:17 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2f269018c7
09:17 dalek niecza: 32d94f6 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
09:17 dalek niecza: [v6] Translate cclass.t, make it pass
09:17 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/32d94f6df0
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09:17 sorear this is proving more painful than I expected
09:18 sanxiyn left #perl6
09:18 * sorear starts keeping a TODO list, wonders if it should be on github tracker
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09:31 diakopter___ sigh
09:34 diakopter___ anyone around?
09:35 diakopter___ in the irclog above, when my client was disconnected at :22, was it timed out, or did the client "quit"?
09:44 sjohnson hi
09:44 sjohnson diakopter___: 01:21:19             <-- | diakopter (~M8YCjC56g@209.9.237.164) has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
09:44 diakopter___ hm, ok; thanks
09:44 sjohnson diakopter___________________: no worries
09:44 sjohnson :)
09:50 moritz_ phenny: ask masak why he thought removal of the optional parameter vs. multi was necessary
09:50 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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10:26 itz I get 403 for http://cloud.github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/rakudo-star-2010.12.tar.gz is that a feature?
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10:27 moritz_ nope
10:27 itz I tried lynx, wget and chromium
10:28 moritz_ seems like a github problem
10:28 moritz_ the actual download URL is https://
10:28 moritz_ and then they redirect you to a http:// URL
10:28 moritz_ and then deny access
10:30 moritz_ I'm asking in #github
10:31 itz ok ty, I'm rolling my own via git
10:31 dalek roast: e76dd4c | moritz++ | / (184 files):
10:31 dalek roast: s/done_testing/done/ as per recent S24 changes
10:31 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e76dd4c730
10:31 dalek roast: ee3b704 | moritz++ | S03-operators/context.t:
10:31 dalek roast: [context.t] better test descriptions
10:31 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ee3b70489c
10:31 sjohnson mor + itz
10:31 sjohnson :3
10:31 moritz_ itz: the star build system isn't very cross platform, and I don't know if it has been tested on anything but linux
10:32 moritz_ sjohnson: you forgot the _
10:32 sjohnson heh
10:32 sjohnson btw moritz_, i rewrote some of your hugme bot to do my own stuff
10:32 itz moritz_: ok well I'm testing on FreeBSD 8.2 as a side effect then
10:32 moritz_ itz++
10:32 sjohnson all sorts of silly stuff like fortune telling and things like that, thanks for writing the base for it
10:32 moritz_ :-) yw
10:33 sjohnson fortune telling based on who asks for it, is always a good laugh in a channel of about 10 regulars
10:35 moritz_ "you're going to get involved in long, fruitless discussions"
10:35 sjohnson haha
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10:38 dalek rakudo: 6a9a38f | moritz++ | Test.pm:
10:38 dalek rakudo: rename done_testing to done; leave a die() in place
10:38 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a9a38f3b4
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11:02 masak oh hai, zebras!
11:02 phenny masak: 09:50Z <moritz_> ask masak why he thought removal of the optional parameter vs. multi was necessary
11:03 masak not necessary, just... superfluous. implementation suggestions in the spec are usually of the non-obvious kind, like when things seem unimplementable.
11:08 LeifD Does parrot jit to native'ish code?
11:09 masak LeifD: that's a question better suited for #parrot over at irc.perl.org, I think.
11:10 LeifD ok
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11:10 sjohnson masak: yo
11:11 masak y0
11:15 sjohnson sjohnson.goto(bed);
11:16 masak moritz_: I could add back the wording about optional parameter vs. multi, but then I would also like to point out the possibility of doing *@_ and analyzing the arguments the Perl 5 way.
11:16 takadonet morning all
11:16 masak takadonet: \o
11:16 masak takadonet: you're up early.
11:16 takadonet wow... you know me too well....
11:16 masak :)
11:17 takadonet I had to drop off my sister at the airport so I came to work early
11:17 masak work? on Dec 31?
11:17 takadonet half day
11:18 masak ah.
11:20 takadonet looks like my last two reddit post got lots of comments
11:21 masak aye.
11:21 masak people like to discuss syntax.
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11:23 takadonet looks like pmichaud is back!
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11:28 pmurias masak: a plan function must be called as the first thing in the file
11:29 masak oh? I thought the done function was essentially a plan function called at the end.
11:29 pmurias masak: it is
11:29 pmurias but the plan can be called either at the start or the end
11:30 masak is it an error to call plan (rather than done) at the end?
11:31 LeifD Latest rakudo git fails make test with: t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t ........ Dubious, test returned 1 (wstat 256, 0x100)
11:31 pmurias masak: no
11:31 masak pmurias: I'll add some wording about that.
11:31 pmurias masak: the error happens on the TAP level
11:31 pmurias and there done/plan are equivalent
11:32 masak right. I was talking about the TAP level.
11:33 masak it's also an error to call them multiple times, I suppose.
11:34 pmurias yes
11:36 dalek specs: 3f49fb7 | masak++ | S24-testing.pod:
11:36 dalek specs: [S24] clarified what TAP doesn't like
11:36 dalek specs:
11:36 dalek specs: It doesn't like no calls to C<plan> or C<done>, it doesn't like more than
11:36 dalek specs: one call, it doesn't like a call at an inappropriate time...
11:36 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/3f49fb7569
11:38 pmurias sorear: having a short term TODO would be good
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12:01 moritz_ masak: the reason behind the optional vs. multi thing was that we want to keep Test.pm conceptually really simple
12:01 moritz_ so that an implementation that only does multis by arity can implement ok() etc.
12:02 moritz_ for example rakudo's Test.pm is from a time where there were no optional arguments
12:03 pmurias and the difference matters when the user add's his own 'multi ok'?
12:04 moritz_ or when he introspects the testing functions
12:06 masak I see. I interpreted the wording as primarily restrictive, but it seems to have been intended as primarily permissive.
12:08 masak I agree that S24 should say something about how closely an implementation's Test.pm is expected to conform.
12:08 masak using niecza's Test.pm6 has also convinced me that we have to specify *exactly* what we expect the output of the various test functions to be, even if it seems obvious.
12:09 masak for example, Rakudo's &is has 'got/expected' logic. Niecza's doesn't.
12:13 pmurias masak: does
12:13 masak oh, does now? nice.
12:13 masak still, my point stands.
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12:22 moritz_ we also need to spec what's supposed to happen when you call pass("a\nb")
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12:23 moritz_ masak: re why do pass/flunk require a description: they are the only functions that unconditionally pass/fail, so there's no testing effect. Which means they must do something weird which requires an explanation
12:23 * masak was just going to ask that :)
12:24 masak moritz_: I understand that motivation, and I wouldn't use pass/flunk without a description either.
12:24 masak but it feels like yet another area where we impose restrictions without needing to, and possibly without seeing all the consequences.
12:25 masak what have we to lose from making *all* the $desc parameters optional, and gaining a bit of consistency?
12:25 moritz_ what about making them all mandatory? :-)
12:25 masak look, some people may have good reason not to use test descriptions.
12:25 pmurias we shouldn't force stuff on people
12:26 masak it feels odd to require them on pass/flunk.
12:26 pmurias someone passing "" as a description won't help anyone
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12:28 moritz_ masak: IMHO pass and flunk feel odd
12:28 masak why?
12:29 moritz_ because they don't test anything
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12:29 moritz_ hm, they make sense for control flow testing
12:29 moritz_ if 1 { pass() } else { flunk }
12:30 pmurias ok 1
12:30 masak again, this is "I don't see the use for it, so let's ban it" thinking.
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12:30 moritz_ anyway, I'm not set on madatory description for pass/flunk
12:30 * masak changes it, then
12:30 moritz_ there's a difference between banning and simply not providing
12:31 masak aye.
12:31 masak I'll also add back some wording about optional parameters being implementable in various ways.
12:32 takadonet someone could be using multiple flunks based on how the test failed
12:33 takadonet a description would be nice then
12:33 pmurias masak: when do the different ways to implement optional params make a difference?
12:34 masak takadonet: I'm not arguing *against* a description on flunk. I'm arguing for the option to leave it out.
12:35 masak pmurias: when someone goes looking for the multis that are already there, for example.
12:35 pmurias masak: why does the spec have to take into account incomplete implementations
12:35 pmurias masak: those that are incomplete can be a bit none conforming
12:36 dalek specs: 167354e | masak++ | S24-testing.pod:
12:36 dalek specs: [S24] made all parameters optional
12:36 dalek specs:
12:36 dalek specs: Also added back some clarification that optional parameters can
12:36 dalek specs: be implemented in other ways, for example using multi dispatch.
12:36 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/167354e52a
12:36 masak pmurias: that's a good point. I'd like to discuss that more.
12:37 masak nom &
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12:55 colomon rakudo: my $a = "This is a test"; $a.substr(10) = "Polka!"; say $a;
12:55 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/sxS4UlF87j␤»
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13:10 masak sorear: what colomon just tried... would it be hard to implement that in niecza?
13:11 masak moritz_: pmurias brings up a good point. why should S24 cater to non-full-featured implementations? the rest of the spec doesn't.
13:12 masak in fact, that was part of why I removed the original sentence. incomplete implementations will have to make compromises *anyhow*, and they generally don't need to be told that they do.
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13:15 redicaps perl6: class a{}; my $b = a.new;
13:15 p6eval pugs, rakudo 6a9a38, niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7:  ( no output )
13:15 masak rakudo: class a {}; say a.new
13:15 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«a()<0xba4eee8>␤»
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13:16 redicaps I  was playing on try.rakudo.com and it gave me → class a{}; my $b .= a.new(); Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'a' ....
13:16 masak that syntax looks odd.
13:17 masak rakudo: class a {}; my a $b .= new; say $b
13:17 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«a()<0x8611038>␤»
13:17 masak that works.
13:17 redicaps yep, from perlgeek.de perl-5-to-6
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13:18 masak redicaps: note that '$a .= method' is just sugar for '$a = $a.method'
13:19 masak so 'my A $b .= new' is just sugar for 'my A $b; $b = $b.new;'
13:19 masak abd at the point before the assignment, $b contains an uninitialized A type object, which has a .new method.
13:22 redicaps masak: got u
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13:57 rokoteko 15:56 < tkr> http://www.dyers.org/blog/beards/beard-types/
13:57 rokoteko 15:56 < tkr> OBVIOUSLY he missed one type.
13:57 rokoteko 15:56 < tkr> http://articles.mongueurs.net/magazines/dossiers/01/pres-perl/larry_wall.jpg
13:57 rokoteko (oh, wait yes. and tkr is me)
13:58 huf hungarian politician mustache ;)
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14:01 masak wow, lots of beard inspiration to be had on that page.
14:05 masak a couple of days ago I downgraded my van Dyke to a goatee. my burns are much shorter than on the goatee pic, though.
14:05 huf http://halasztelekma.hu/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/kover-laszlo2.jpg that's what i'm talkin about
14:05 masak indeed.
14:06 masak that looks like a politician I could trust! :)
14:06 M_o_C Hi. Let's say I want to look up a certain keyword, built-in * or control structure in the spec. Is there a quick way to do this? (Using google sort of fails when you want to look up the specification of "for" or the likes.)
14:07 masak M_o_C: most of us here have the git repo checked out, and then we use ack on it.
14:09 M_o_C Ok.
14:12 colomon How do you clear out a Hash?  %a = {} ?
14:14 colomon rakudo: my %a = A => 54, B => 2; say %a.perl; %a = {}; say %a.perl;
14:14 rokoteko rakudo: my %h = (a => 1, b => 2); say %h.perl; %h = (); say %h.perl
14:14 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«{"A" => 54, "B" => 2}␤{}␤»
14:14 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1, "b" => 2}␤{}␤»
14:15 masak that's not really "clearing out a hash", though.
14:15 masak that's grabbing a new one.
14:15 colomon have to admit I'm not sure I care about the difference for p5.  ;)
14:16 masak then carry on :)
14:17 rokoteko how do you delete hash keys or array elements in perl6, masak ?
14:17 masak std: my %hash = foo => 42; %hash<foo> :delete;
14:17 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
14:18 masak rakudo: my %hash = foo => 42; say %hash.perl; %hash.delete("foo"); say %hash.perl
14:18 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«{"foo" => 42}␤{}␤»
14:18 masak rokoteko: hope that answers your question.
14:18 rokoteko rakudo: my %h = (a => 1, b => 2); ; %h.delete(keys %h); say %h.perl
14:18 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«{}␤»
14:18 rokoteko masak: yes it did, thanks.
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14:27 tadzik hello, renideers
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14:32 colomon hello, satan
14:40 moritz_ hello santa
14:40 moritz_ rakudo: say 'satan'.comb.sort eq 'santa'.comb.sort
14:40 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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14:55 * masak dreams of an adverb that means 'compare under this transformation'
14:56 [Coke] moritz_: is there a way to write that without duplicating the comb and the sort?
15:00 moritz_ rakudo: say [eq] <satan santa>.map: *.comb.sort.join
15:00 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
15:00 moritz_ [Coke]: not perfect, but at least without repetition
15:03 qiuhw Somebody who would like to review this: https://github.com/qiuhw/rakudo/commit/deec2f9a0ca3099c1b3421d6de652052d579ae7b?
15:03 * moritz_ takes a look
15:04 moritz_ qiuhw: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a9a38f3b4d322a3ea93b5363b59ec62ca23321a
15:04 moritz_ but I forgot the test in t/
15:08 qiuhw moritz_: But what I have changed in Test.pm is after your commit. The code in END {} still calls done_testing() which will cause spectest to fail
15:08 dalek rakudo: d3688bb | moritz++ | t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t:
15:08 dalek rakudo: a forgotten done_testing. quihw++
15:08 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d3688bb236
15:09 moritz_ qiuhw: oh, sorry, I missed that part
15:09 moritz_ will apply
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15:19 dalek rakudo: f99d081 | qiuhw++ | Test.pm:
15:19 dalek rakudo: rename more done_testing to done
15:19 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f99d081ea4
15:19 pmurias sorear: ping
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15:33 pmurias sorear: what is ->xref on Metamodel?
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15:49 colomon moritz_: did you have any luck with io-prompter?
15:50 colomon I've got a version which compiles okay, but when I try the examples, Rakudo sees its core "prompt" instead of the new module versions.
15:51 colomon and when I rename the subs, I get an error "Method 'after' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'"
15:55 flussence good morneveninight, *
15:55 colomon * *, *
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15:55 colomon oh, is *that* what TimToady was saying yesterday?
15:55 flussence yes :)
15:55 colomon Did someone call me slow-of-mind?
15:56 flussence well, he could've been saying anything...
15:56 flussence I've got a fix here if anyone wants to take it: https://github.com/flussence/roast/commit/2e547de
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16:08 colomon https://gist.github.com/761112 -- is my "current" problem in IO::Prompter.  (I've got a workaround, but this is an elegant piece of code which is apparently broken in modern Rakudo.)
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16:11 moritz_ colomon: no luck, but I didn't try either
16:11 moritz_ colomon: seems that <?after ...> is NYI in nqp-rx
16:11 jasonmay rakudo: ({}.WHAT == Hash).perl.say
16:12 p6eval rakudo 6a9a38: OUTPUT«Type objects are abstract and have no attributes, but you tried to access $!storage␤  in 'EnumMap::elems' at line 5080:CORE.setting␤  in 'Iterable::Numeric' at line 3812:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<==>' at line 7369:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line
16:12 p6eval ..22:/tmp/yhJUxX1gQe␤»
16:12 s1n it's been a while since i played with rakudo, but can i execute the perl6 fakexecutable outside the rakudo diretory?
16:12 moritz_ s1n: you can, if rakudo is installed correctly
16:12 s1n moritz_: i just pulled it outta git and built it
16:13 moritz_ s1n: and did you 'make install'?
16:13 s1n no, do i need to set a prefix path?
16:13 moritz_ no, it installs into the same location as your parrot
16:13 s1n trying...
16:13 moritz_ ie if you ran parrot, it installs into parrot_install/bin/perl6
16:14 moritz_ see also: README
16:14 s1n yup, that worked, thanks
16:15 s1n it's been over a year since i even looked at perl6 :/
16:15 moritz_ then you'll probably find that much has improved since your last attempt
16:15 moritz_ (though speed isn't among the improved aspects)
16:16 s1n wow, yup, my old code doesn't work heh
16:16 [particle] the spec has improved, too ;)
16:23 jasonmay where can I read about the .perl feature?
16:23 s1n std: class Foo { sub foo is export (Int bar) { ... } }
16:23 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unable to parse signature at /tmp/Li6sADxaSq line 1:␤------> [32mclass Foo { sub foo is export [33m⏏[31m(Int bar) { ... } }[0m␤Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/Li6sADxaSq line 1:␤------> [32mclass Foo { sub foo is export (Int
16:23 p6eval ..[33m⏏[31mb…
16:23 jasonmay not very easy to search for.. :)
16:23 s1n why does that fail but pass without the signature?
16:25 [particle] what happens if you leave off bar, or add a sigil?
16:25 * [particle] hasn't played with perl 6 in quite a while, either :(
16:26 s1n std: class Foo { sub foo is export (Int $bar) { ... } }
16:26 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  $bar is declared but not used at /tmp/vw_zvj2dnN line 1:␤------> [32mclass Foo { sub foo is export (Int [33m⏏[31m$bar) { ... } }[0m␤ok 00:01 121m␤»
16:26 s1n that's odd
16:26 s1n std: class Foo { sub foo is export (Int) { ... } }
16:26 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
16:27 * s1n smells a problem
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16:28 moritz_ jasonmay: I think it's in S02
16:29 moritz_ jasonmay: .perl is supposed to return a string that, when run as Perl 6 code, reproduces the original object
16:29 moritz_ ... evaluated in item context
16:31 s1n std: class Foo { sub foo is export (Int $bar) { $bar = 1 } }
16:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
16:32 s1n that works, oddly
16:32 moritz_ std only checks syntax
16:34 jasonmay moritz_: thanks
16:34 jasonmay rakudo: [[[]]].pretty.say
16:34 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«Method 'pretty' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6xhLVaDM0_␤»
16:34 s1n rakudo: class Foo { multi sub foo is export (Str $bar) { $bar = 1; } }
16:35 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed multi at line 22, near "sub foo is"␤»
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16:35 s1n std: class Foo { multi sub foo is export (Str $bar) { $bar = 1; } }
16:35 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
16:35 s1n bug?
16:36 [particle] i'm not sure it's a bug
16:37 [particle] std does some semantic analysis, and it's there that it's finding 'declared, not used'
16:37 [particle] i suppose an exception could be made if the body of the sub is ...
16:37 s1n [particle]: std didn't complain but rakudo parse failed
16:38 [particle] oh, sorry, i'm still looking at "std: class Foo { sub foo is export (Int $bar) { ... } }" from above
16:39 [particle] multi foo is export? not 'multi sub ...'?
16:39 [particle] i really don't know in this case.
16:39 s1n i had 'multi sub foo'
16:40 [particle] rakudo: class Foo { multi foo is export (Str $bar) { $bar = 1; } }
16:40 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed multi at line 22, near "foo is exp"␤»
16:41 [particle] seems the multi syntax is what you need to look at.
16:42 moritz_ multi foo(Str $bar) is export { ... }
16:43 moritz_ otherwise the (...) is parsed as an argument to the "is export" trait
16:45 s1n did the 'multi sub' become just 'multi'
16:46 moritz_ 'multi' and 'multi sub' are synonyms
16:47 s1n what about method? i forgot the difference
16:48 colomon moritz_: I'm going to clean up what I've currently got and push it, and give you a commit bit.
16:48 pmurias s1n: multi method is a method
16:48 pmurias s1n: you call it with the $foo.bar syntax
16:48 s1n pmurias: but how are methods different than subs?
16:48 pmurias subs are lexical
16:49 pmurias methods are tied per object
16:49 s1n you mean i don't need an instance to call them?
16:49 moritz_ you invoke a method like $obj.its_method
16:50 s1n subs don't need the instance?
16:50 moritz_ right
16:50 s1n okay
16:50 moritz_ rakudo: say uc("foo")
16:50 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
16:50 moritz_ rakudo: say "foo".uc
16:50 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
16:50 moritz_ rakudo: BEGIN { say uc "foo" }
16:50 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
16:50 moritz_ huh
16:51 moritz_ why does that work
16:51 moritz_ but not
16:51 moritz_ rakudo: BEGIN { push @*INC, 'foo' }
16:51 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &push␤»
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16:53 s1n when i get the ===SORRY!=== line, why don't i get the file that with the line number?
16:55 colomon moritz_: https://github.com/colomon/io-prompter -- you've got a commit bit now
16:55 moritz_ because of the weird interaction of parsing with the rest of the world
16:55 moritz_ colomon: thanks
16:55 * moritz_ -> gone for New Year's Eve party
16:55 s1n Quoted method name requires parenthesized arguments at line 49, near ";\n        "
16:55 colomon moritz_: mind you, it doesn't exactly work yet.
16:55 s1n that's not a helpful error message
16:55 [particle] moritz_: INIT {...} works
16:55 [particle] BEGIN does not
16:55 s1n that's like saying "Sorry, there's a bug somewhere"
16:56 moritz_ [particle]: ... but only due to a bug, when used together with "use"
16:56 moritz_ because "use" should be BEGIN time
16:58 [particle] rakudo: INIT { push @*INC, 'foo' }
16:58 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
16:58 [particle] rakudo: BEGIN { push @*INC, 'foo' }
16:58 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &push␤»
16:58 [particle] i mean, rakudo is ok with running the push at INIT time, but can't find &push at begin-time
16:59 [particle] rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC ,= 'foo' }
16:59 p6eval rakudo f99d08: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &infix:<,=>␤»
16:59 [particle] rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC = 'foo', @*INC }
16:59 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
16:59 [particle] rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC = @*INC, 'foo' }
16:59 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
17:00 [particle] it seems @*INC doesn't have the push method at BEGIN time
17:00 s1n ugh, my code is too bitrotted :/
17:00 [particle] for some strange reason.
17:01 s1n does trait_mod:<*> not work the same?
17:02 moritz_ s1n: I've reported the missing line number at BEGIN time as a bug
17:02 moritz_ really gone &
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17:11 colomon ack, trying to deal with loose regexes is very frustrating
17:13 VXZ I prefer my regexes tight.
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17:16 pumphaus that's what he said..
17:17 pumphaus is anyone able to download rakudo-star 2010.12 ?
17:17 pumphaus github always gives ma 403 permission denied
17:17 pumphaus 2010.11 works just fine
17:18 pumphaus *gives me a
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17:49 dalek niecza: 025e408 | pmurias++ | / (4 files):
17:49 dalek niecza: [Test.pm6] remove &done-testing and &done_testing
17:49 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/025e408688
17:49 dalek niecza: c70d541 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/ (2 files):
17:49 dalek niecza: start of the common lisp backend
17:49 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c70d541e13
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18:05 tadzik pumphaus: that's known, sorry for that
18:05 vastak joined #perl6
18:06 [particle] that's not helpful. is there a workaround?
18:08 TimToady I couldn't find one last night, but I'm no gitmaster
18:08 TimToady so I think tadzik++ was about as helpful as could be
18:09 flussence you can download the .tar.gz of the current commit, that should be identical to the 2010.12 there
18:09 TimToady but doesn't have the extras?
18:09 flussence in the rakudo/star repo, should do
18:10 [particle] could someone throw it on the cpan?
18:10 flussence oh, hm. I suppose the 2010.12 download contains the stuff done after a `make release` on it
18:13 rgrau left #perl6
18:23 kthakore rakudo: say "hi"
18:23 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:23 kthakore ??
18:23 kthakore rakudo: say 'hi'
18:23 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:23 kthakore wth?
18:24 colomon rakudo: say "blue";
18:24 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:25 colomon rakudo: say 1
18:25 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:25 TimToady pugs: say 42
18:25 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«42␤»
18:25 colomon it's broken.  :(
18:25 flussence rakudo: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;
18:25 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:26 TimToady the last time I rebuilt rakudo I had to blow away parrot_install for some reason
18:26 TimToady that was last night
18:27 TimToady has scrolled off my screen, so dunno why
18:28 TimToady but rakudo has been running since then under evalbot
18:28 TimToady rakudo: BEGIN { say "hi" }
18:28 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:29 TimToady rakudo: BEGIN { @*INC ,= 'foo' }
18:29 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:29 TimToady that at least got output earlier on the same release
18:30 icwiener left #perl6
18:34 TimToady rakudo: say uc("foo")  # worked earlier on f99d08
18:34 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:34 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_cookbook_tablet
18:34 TimToady niecza: say uc("foo")
18:34 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
18:38 TimToady evalbot control restart
18:38 p6eval left #perl6
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18:39 p6eval joined #perl6
18:39 TimToady rakudo: say 42
18:39 aindilis joined #perl6
18:39 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
18:39 TimToady oh well, it was worth a shot
18:43 ggoebel joined #perl6
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19:27 diakopter rakudo: say 42
19:27 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
19:27 diakopter hm
19:28 wolverian hrm rakudo .12 is still giving me 403
19:29 M_o_C joined #perl6
19:30 diakopter #perl6 <TimToady> rakudo: say 42
19:30 diakopter Segmentation fault
19:30 diakopter #perl6 <diakopter> rakudo: say 42
19:30 diakopter Segmentation fault
19:30 Sarten-X joined #perl6
19:32 * diakopter doesn't know how to fix
19:37 dual joined #perl6
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19:43 rindolf joined #perl6
19:43 rindolf Hi all. Which Parrot version is required by rakudo-2010.12?
19:44 rindolf Happy new year too.
19:46 yarrak left #perl6
19:46 sorear good * #perl6
19:48 [Coke] rindolf: it should be documented in build/PARROT_REVISION
19:49 [Coke] (but usually it's the version that came out earlier in the week)
19:49 rindolf [Coke]: apparently it's 2.11.0
19:55 sorear pmurias: pong
19:59 sorear pmurias: 'dunno-what-this-is' is a list of xids of child subs
19:59 sorear it defines the sub tree, along with outer
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21:09 lue ohai #perl6 o/
21:10 rindolf Hi lue
21:14 masak joined #perl6
21:15 masak we're quickly running out of 2010 over here...
21:16 s1n lots of time, just under 9 hours :)
21:16 masak we only have 1h45m left here.
21:18 rindolf masak: I only have 42m left.
21:18 masak rindolf: good, then you can tell me if 2011 is any good :)
21:19 rindolf masak: OK.
21:19 tadzik oh, masak, we're in the same TZ
21:21 rindolf lue: what's up?
21:21 colbseton joined #perl6
21:21 masak tadzik: oczywiście! :)
21:22 rindolf masak: which language is that?
21:22 colbseton left #perl6
21:22 hanekomu sounds polish
21:22 hanekomu er, looks
21:22 tadzik :)
21:22 masak :)
21:22 tadzik it even has ś
21:22 tadzik and I still don't have ó in colemak
21:27 coldhead joined #perl6
21:27 lue it's still 2010 over here!
21:28 rindolf lue: also here.
21:28 coldhead Today is Sweetmorn, the 1st day of Chaos in the YOLD 3177
21:28 M_o_C left #perl6
21:29 lue I was glad when 2009 left. That meant the end of those stupid glasses. Unfortunately, I forgot you could still do it for 2010.
21:36 LeifD left #perl6
21:58 lue I think S22 needs severe updating. Maybe it can detail neutro instead?
21:59 colomon Probably needs severe updating, but I don't think neutro is supposed to be any more than a quick stopgap measure until we have something better.
22:02 rindolf masak: 2011 seems fine so far.
22:03 yarrak joined #perl6
22:03 colomon seems strictly imaginary so far from here.  ;)
22:06 * lue resists bringing time-dilation into the discussion
22:09 * sorear distracts lue with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barycentric_Dynamical_Time
22:09 rindolf left #perl6
22:14 * lue distracted indefinitely
22:18 diakopter speaking of time dilation..
22:27 lue I can never remember if climbing to the top of a mountain would make 2011 come faster or slower (compared to, say, sea level)
22:30 snearch left #perl6
22:33 flussence well, you'd be moving faster when it comes
22:34 TimToady it really helps if the top of the mountain is on the other side of a TZ boundary
22:35 colomon TimToady: \o/
22:35 * colomon will disappear in a moment when his battery runs out.
22:37 masak left #perl6
22:39 colomon Happy New Year!
22:39 Trashlord happy new year!
22:39 Trashlord Sat Jan  1 00:39:52 IST 2011
22:40 masak joined #perl6
22:41 lue assume a perfectly longitudinal and level coastline, with a mountain whose peak is colinear with the beach. Somebody is on the beach and somebody is on the peak of the mountain. Who sees 2011 first?
22:41 jferrero joined #perl6
22:42 colomon which side is the ocean on?
22:43 lue does it matter? If so, pick left.
22:44 colomon left #perl6
22:45 TimToady can I assume a spherical 2011?
22:48 TimToady nap &
22:48 * lue feels he needs to read the General Theory of Relativity sometime
22:50 lopaway is now known as lopnor
22:54 lue rakudo: (1,2,3) E "hi".say
22:54 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
22:54 allbery_b the person on the mountaintop sees it first, but unless it's e.g. Everest it'll be only be a matter of nanoseconds
22:54 lue rakudo: (1,,3) E "hi".say
22:54 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
22:54 allbery_b http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html interesting related read
22:54 tadzik rakudo: say Date.now.year
22:54 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
22:54 tadzik rakudo: say now.year
22:54 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
22:54 tadzik rakudo: say now
22:54 p6eval rakudo f99d08:  ( no output )
22:55 tadzik oh you!
22:55 allbery_b still coring?
22:55 lue That's what I thought. of course. I'm not talking about can anybody notice, that would require a massive change in distance, maybe the radius of Jupiter?
22:56 allbery_b I was actually thinking GR differences
22:59 allbery_b speed of light vs GR effects... which one is dominant depends on a number of issues
22:59 allbery_b (and if one of the observers is moving relative to the other there's also SR time dilation :)
22:59 lichtkind joined #perl6
23:02 lue I should think of becoming a physicist instead. I'd much rather go to college for that than programming, because I've been doing that since I was 10.
23:03 lue [er, 2nd that = programming]
23:08 felliott left #perl6
23:09 coldhead physics is so gross and imprecise
23:10 * coldhead shudders
23:10 allbery_b they're both applied math...
23:10 lue I personally think physicists are killjoys. I can't travel at speed of light? Why? [I might go with "Temporal Scientist" instead]
23:11 lue [I know why, but physicists always seem like killjoys when they say so]
23:13 colomon joined #perl6
23:14 allbery_b just remember we still haven't seen the last word on that
23:15 allbery_b a whole bunch of physics comes up for potential upending if we can't find the higgs boson :)
23:17 allbery_b and there are other areas that have similar potential.  reconciling GR with QED looks weirder and weirder the more is found out about both
23:21 soroush_ left #perl6
23:23 tadzik happy new year!
23:24 jhuni joined #perl6
23:24 masak happy new year! \o/
23:24 soroush joined #perl6
23:24 masak left #perl6
23:27 lue sorear: I agree that S03:2131 is a bit weird.
23:29 Axius joined #perl6
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23:38 lue Hm, this place seems really quiet today, can't fathom why⸮
23:38 sjohnson people are drinkin beers
23:38 sjohnson and hugging family members and friends alike
23:39 sjohnson i'll definitely be doing the former tonight
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