Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-02

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 colomon Ack, he appears to have his own testing module.
00:02 colomon oh, which he also sent me.
00:03 patrickas Is there a reason why TheDamian doesn't release more all the crazy delicous stuff he has?
00:03 colomon he wants to get it all right first, I think.
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00:05 masak yarrack_logging: hi. are you a lumberjack?
00:05 patrickas Oh! I wanted to retype a module of his from blurry screenshots of a video of a presentation :-)
00:06 patrickas I couldn't careless how all right it was
00:06 patrickas I think it was "the computation in negative time" talk
00:06 colomon I haven't seen that one.
00:07 sorear is that anything like computation with supertasks?
00:07 colomon I dunno, I can kind of understand why he wants to take his time.
00:08 colomon But dang it, I want to use his modules.  Lots of us are writing Perl 6 now.
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00:11 patrickas sorear: I don't think so, iirc a bit more on the humorous side, but I seem to be unable to find the video again
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00:13 colomon hm.
00:13 colomon If I want to get these into ecosystem with minimal modifications, I need to tweak ufo.
00:13 colomon But I'm currently using an obsolete hacked version of ufo locally.
00:13 colomon Sigh.
00:14 patrickas 'night all
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00:16 masak why would ufo tweaks be needed?
00:17 tadzik colomon: tweak module::tools :)
00:17 colomon Well, for one thing, "prove" doesn't work on my machine the way it does in ufo.
00:18 colomon tadzik: how is module::tools related?
00:18 tadzik colomon: the mbuild tool is basically ufo w/o a make
00:18 colomon you mean, it replaces make?
00:19 tadzik sorta
00:21 colomon masak: that's the local tweak.  The tweak we need for Damian's modules is to allow "lib6" as well as "lib".  (Unless you've already done that and my version is just behind.)
00:23 masak colomon: no, but it sounds like a good addition.
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00:28 colomon oh, ack, not as easy as I was hoping.
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00:33 colomon rakudo: my $a = "lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm"; $a.subst(/^'lib(6?)/'/, ''); say $a
00:33 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm␤»
00:33 colomon rakudo: my $a = "lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm"; $a.subst(/^'lib[6]?/'/, ''); say $a
00:33 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm␤»
00:33 colomon rakudo: my $a = "lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm"; $a.subst(/^'lib"6"?/'/, ''); say $a
00:33 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm␤»
00:34 colomon rakudo: my $a = "lib6/Hello/Kitty.pm"; $a.subst(/^"lib""6"?"/'/, ''); say $a
00:34 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
00:36 lue I'm starting to remember why I gave up before I started on GCC the first time...
00:37 colomon my %module-to-path = @modules Z=> @module-files;
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00:45 colomon got it, I think.
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01:01 colomon tadzik: so, what's the module::tools
01:01 colomon ?
01:02 masak I just put my blogging software on github. it's 250 lines of Perl 6 code: https://github.com/masak/psyde/blob/master/psyde
01:03 masak if anyone actually wants to deploy psyde, I have a .zip file where I actually pulled away the specific parts.
01:04 colomon masak++
01:04 colomon tadzik: found it.
01:05 masak I'm currently porting Markdown to Niecza Perl 6. when that's done, my blog will be running pure Perl 6.
01:05 * lue is interested
01:05 wolverian heh. the required named param style looks kinda smalltalkish.
01:05 * lue needs a website that can run Perl 6
01:05 masak wolverian: that was the intent.
01:06 masak wolverian: assuming you're talking about &nonexistent-or-older
01:06 masak lue: I think I have your email address. I can send the .zip file over if you want.
01:08 lue Sure. Only then I'd have to google "copy files to remote server through ssh" :)
01:08 lue [alternatively, try compiling Rakudo again]
01:08 masak lue: there's scp, which sounds like it does what you want.
01:09 colomon tadzik: do I need to use ufo to install Module::Tools?  I'm confused here....
01:09 masak oh, it's ggoebel++ who is already running a psyde instance. :)
01:10 lue which bot lets me see the last time someone was on the channel?
01:10 wolverian masak: yes.
01:11 masak wolverian: that was directly inspired by the way Smalltalk does named param passing. I like it.
01:11 masak buubot: seen lue?
01:11 buubot masak: I don't think I've seen lue?.
01:11 masak buubot: seen lue
01:11 buubot masak: I last saw lue saying "perlesque" at Sun May  9 02:27:52 2010 Z.
01:12 masak buubot: er.
01:12 buubot masak: Couldn't match input.
01:12 lue I'm pretty sure I've never had a reason to say perlesque, much less on 9 May.
01:13 wolverian masak: can can you say :from [...] instead of :from[...]?
01:13 wolverian or than, I forgot already what the name was. :)
01:13 lue aloha: seen bkeeler
01:13 aloha lue: Sorry, I haven't seen bkeeler.
01:14 lue buubot: seen bkeeler
01:14 buubot lue: I last saw bkeeler saying "bkeeler" at Tue Mar 30 23:58:23 2010 Z.
01:15 masak wolverian: no, that'd constitute a two-terms-in-a-row syntax error.
01:15 wolverian ok.
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01:15 masak std: :than\      ["OH HAI"]
01:15 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
01:16 masak that works, though.
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01:21 * colomon 's momentum for messing around with other people's code tonight is pretty much gone...
01:22 masak colomon++
01:23 colomon Not clear if I've accomplished anything useful at all today, other than sending that not carefully tested patch to you, and getting Damian to send me his code.
01:24 colomon Will be out of vicodin tomorrow, and need to get $work done on Monday, I fear.
01:25 colomon Think I might resolve to try to have a Perl 6 day every week this year.
01:25 masak the patch you sent is now applied and pushed.
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01:26 colomon ooo, thank you.
01:27 masak thank *you* :)
01:27 masak oh wait. the push failed.
01:27 masak trying again.
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01:29 masak would it be OK if I removed &module-name-to-path, rather than just commenting it out?
01:29 masak I'm slightly allergic to commented-out code.
01:30 colomon Of course.
01:30 colomon I'm just slightly allergic to just deleting other people's code.
01:31 masak next time, feel free to delete it. :)
01:31 colomon Also, remember that I programmed for about 20 years before I had routine access to a version control system.
01:31 colomon Paranoid habits die hard.
01:31 masak I'm very unsentimental about dead code.
01:32 masak they do indeed.
01:32 masak ruthlessly removing code instead of commenting it out is definitely a habit I picked up after getting into version control systems.
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01:34 colomon Usually I comment stuff out and then a week or two later I delete the comments.
01:34 masak my rule-of-thumb nowadays is that commented-out code is either (1) wrong and should be deleted at sight, or (2) equipped with a one-sentence comment explaining why it shouldn't be removed.
01:34 colomon Every now and then I actually manage to lose something despite version control.
01:35 masak last time I lost something was when I was robbed and my computer was lost. that must've been 2 years ago. I lost a day's worth of work on Druid.
01:36 colomon I actually lost something today.
01:36 colomon Switched too quickly from my version of something to moritz_++'s, lost about ten minutes of work.
01:37 colomon I must say I'm very happy to have a time capsule full time on my LAN, so that I have routine hourly backups going on in the background.
01:38 masak wolverian: you could also write :than(@these) or something.
01:39 masak how will we make Perl 6 great in 2011? what should be our focus, as a community?
01:39 * colomon checks on his off-site backup, to make sure his main svn repository is still being backed up each day.
01:40 colomon masak: I think we need to ramp Perl 6 up to strength.
01:40 colomon In particular, getting the module ecosystem up to speed.
01:41 masak yes.
01:41 masak I've been a bit negligent of pls, I fear.
01:41 colomon And the two implementations converging in terms of speed and features.
01:41 masak that'll be nice.
01:41 colomon We've all been kind of negligent, I think.  I dunno, feels like I've been pretty distracted since August or so.
01:42 masak yeah, apart from the Advent Calendar, we've been in a slump lately...
01:42 masak pmichaud almost entirely distracted, jnthn largely distracted...
01:42 colomon sorear aside, I think.  He's working miracles.
01:42 masak but we had a similar (though shorter) slump around New Year's last year.
01:43 masak yes, sorear++ makes us all look like lazy bums. :P
01:43 masak I want to reward him by paying attention to his compiler.
01:44 lue I would like to help with creating a module ecosystem. I think it's because I have a deep-rooted displeasure towards how it works.
01:44 colomon I keep on meaning to try to install it again.
01:45 masak I think the Next Big Thing for the module ecosystem is Emmentaler. but it has pls as a prerequisite, so I need to finish pls first.
01:45 * lue looks up Emmentaler
01:46 colomon module::tools seems interesting.
01:46 colomon looked like bits of ufo got into it....
01:47 masak lue: http://strangelyconsistent.​org/blog/cheese-speleology
01:47 colomon masak: by the way, I've got a port of some C++ suffix tree code I found on the net done but not totally debugged for p5.  ;)
01:48 masak that reminds me, I should send out an email to all the contestants.
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01:57 lue How do I mark a test todo or skip? [ I currently just comment out the offending line, but that's not a good solution. ]
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01:59 lao P5> @x=( "tom 87 98 90", "bob 78 98 90", "tim 88 98 84", "jon 78 87 90");
02:00 lao P5> @x=sort {
02:00 lao @af  = (split /\s+/,$a)[1..3];
02:00 lao @bf  = (split /\s+/,$b)[1..3];
02:00 lao $af[2] <=> $bf[2] || $af[1] <=> $bf[1] || $af[0] <=> $bf[0]
02:00 lao } @x;
02:01 colomon masak: Getting organizational, it seems like we ought to spend the next couple of months worrying about meta issues with modules:  Installing them, testing them, making it easy to make modules which interface with other languages, etc.
02:01 lao I try to convert P5 code to P6 for sort. Need help.
02:01 masak lao: please don't do that.
02:01 masak lao: use a pastebin of some sort :)
02:03 masak rakudo: my @x = "tom 87 98 90", "bob 78 98 90", "tim 88 98 84", "jon 78 87 90"; @x .= sort( { my @af = $^a.words; my @bf = $^b.words; @af[2] <=> @bf[2] || @af[1] <=> @bf[1] || @af[0] <=> @bf[0] }); say @x.perl
02:03 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«["jon 78 87 90", "bob 78 98 90", "tom 87 98 90", "tim 88 98 84"]␤»
02:04 masak colomon: that's been the hidden challenge all along.
02:05 masak colomon: thing is, no-one takes on solving those problems voluntarily. they're no fun, not really.
02:05 masak colomon: so we need to grow into needing to solve them.
02:05 colomon I dunno about hidden.  But it's been something we needed to do, and we ought to get our acts together.  (And I do mean "we", not just you.)
02:05 masak right.
02:05 masak my point is that it might actually have been too early thus far.
02:07 colomon I reckon that's all irrelevant.  The point is, we really should get them done now.
02:08 colomon afk # gotta go back home now.
02:08 colomon happy new year!
02:08 colomon left #perl6
02:09 * masak waves after the departing colomon++
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02:18 Tene rakudo: my @a = 1,1,2; my @b = 1,2,1; say (@a Z<=> @b).perl
02:18 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«(0, -1, 1)␤»
02:20 Tene rakudo: my $a = '1 1 2'; my @b = '1 2 1'; say [||] ($a.words Z<=> $b.words)[2,1,0]
02:20 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$b' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/MPJ2UcKxaT:22)␤»
02:20 masak rakudo: my @a = 1, 1, 2; my @b = 1, 2, 1; say (@a «<=>» @b).perl
02:20 Tene rakudo: my $a = '1 1 2'; my $b = '1 2 1'; say [||] ($a.words Z<=> $b.words)[2,1,0]
02:20 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«[0, -1, 1]␤»
02:20 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«1␤»
02:21 Tene That looks a bit more expressive than your long version, fwiw. :)
02:24 Tene Huh.  I'd never noticed the similarity between Z and «» before.
02:24 Tene What *is* the difference, actually?
02:25 masak lazy and hyper, respectively.
02:26 wolverian masak: or than => @these?
02:26 masak wolverian: oh, right. yes.
02:27 masak wolverian: I never use that syntax myself :) I had forgotten about it.
02:29 Tene rakudo: my @x = "tom 87 98 90", "bob 78 98 90", "tim 88 98 84", "jon 78 87 90"; @x .= sort( { [||] ($^a.words Z<=> $^b.words)[2,1,0] } ); say @x.perl
02:29 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«["jon 78 87 90", "bob 78 98 90", "tom 87 98 90", "tim 88 98 84"]␤»
02:31 masak Tene++
02:32 Tene That's still splitting into words repeatedly, so not quite optimal.
02:34 lue afk everyone! o/
02:35 masak afk, lue \o
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02:45 masak good night, zebras.
02:46 colomon night!
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03:20 lao masak, Tene: Thanks. I wrould expect the result of sorting 3rd,3nd,1st field order: tim 88 98 84  jon 78 87 90 bob 78 98 90tom 87 98 90
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03:37 lao ok I get it. I miss the correct index [3] [2] [1] for sorting.
03:58 lopnor happy new year!
04:00 lopnor how can i declear "local $foo" in perl6?
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04:33 sorear lopnor: temp $foo
04:33 lopnor oo!
04:33 sorear it's also possible to do some of the same things with my $*foo
04:33 sorear which is better supported
04:34 lopnor I wanted to modify some environmental variables inside of method,
04:35 lopnor i thought i should use method do_something ($foo is copy),
04:35 lopnor which is better?
04:51 sorear lopnor: not sure how is copy would work.
04:51 sorear niecza: my $*foo = "Hello"; say "abc $*foo.uc() def"
04:51 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«abc HELLO def␤»
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04:58 lopnor k, i will try someway
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05:15 lue phenny: tell masak I still get that malformed UTF-8 string error, and AFAICT my .markdown file is in utf-8. Maybe I'll stumble upon the cause in the meantime :) .
05:15 phenny lue: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
05:21 sorear niecza_eval: sub foo(*%_) { say %_.dump }; my $x = 5; foo(:$x)
05:21 sorear niecza: sub foo(*%_) { say %_.dump }; my $x = 5; foo(:$x)
05:21 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«{"x" => 5}␤»
05:25 sorear What's the best way to run some code and test the exception thrown?
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06:08 sorear niecza: class Base { class Derived is Base { } }; my $b = Base::Derived.new; say $b ~~ Base;
06:08 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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06:20 dalek niecza: c23321d | sorear++ | v6n/ (2 files):
06:20 dalek niecza: [v6] Translate first 1/3 of Metamodel
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06:20 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c23321da05
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07:07 diakopter what is GameDay
07:07 diakopter oh, that was a irclong time ago
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07:12 sorear diakopter: tournament of roses
07:15 diakopter what's that
07:16 sorear it's one of the highest level football games in the country
07:16 diakopter I mean, I googled those terms, but I don't see how they're.. oh.
07:17 diakopter tournament of roses brought up a bunch of stuff about a parade
07:18 diakopter but yeah if there's a football game too, I can see how a tv show on sports would mention it
07:22 sorear niecza: my @foo = 1, 2, 3; for @foo { $_++ }; say ~@foo
07:22 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
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07:34 simon how do I join a predefined character group with a custom one? <[123] + <alpha>>?
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07:40 sorear simon: yes
07:40 sorear wait
07:40 sorear no, it's just <[128]+alpha>
07:40 diakopter niecza: my $foo = (1, 2, 3); for $foo { $_++ }; say ~$foo
07:40 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Numeric in class Parcel␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at (eval) line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 4)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1064 (SAFE C381_ANON @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1064
07:40 p6eval ..(SAFE module-SAFE…
07:44 simon sorear, thanks.
07:55 sorear need is better than use because need does not affect the local language
07:56 sorear a slightly smart compiler can respond to "need Foo; need Bar; " by loading Foo and Bar in parallel
07:56 sorear this is not possible with use Foo; because Foo needs to be parsed for macros
08:11 dalek niecza: ce5553f | sorear++ | v6n/ (3 files):
08:11 dalek niecza: Translate second 1/3 of Metamodel
08:11 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ce5553fc9e
08:13 lao Help: What is the equivalent statement in Perl6 for: substr($s1,3,4,"CAD") (perl5)
08:22 simon in grammars, how do I specify precedence? using ||s and ordering?
08:25 tadzik rakudo: "CAD".substr(1, 2, 3)
08:25 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'substr'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu : Any $start, Any $length?;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/JB6XgVRy0h␤»
08:26 mberends lao: see the penultimate paragraph about substr (left hand side) in http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/Str.html
08:28 mberends rakudo: my $a="the cat sat"; substr($a,4,3)="dog"; $a.say;
08:29 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/i79vJtJd4x␤»
08:29 mberends so it's NYI :-(
08:34 lao mberends: Thank. I looked the web. substr just returns substring. I do not see replacement. I just want to change "theDOGHouse" to "theCADhouse" using substrng index rather than regex.
08:38 sorear I'd rather see 4-argument substr than lvalue substr
08:40 sorear the absense of error recovery in STD is irritating
08:43 sorear std: $GLOBAL::x
08:43 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
08:44 sorear std: GLOBAL::Foo.new
08:44 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared name:␤    'GLOBAL::Foo' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
08:44 sorear std: Foo::Bar.new
08:44 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared name:␤    'Foo::Bar' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
08:45 tadzik isn't #81562 a feature?
08:46 tadzik or is it a duplicate; I think I recall talking about it with someone here, and there was a reason I didn't file a bug report
08:48 dalek niecza: 3523595 | sorear++ | v6n/Metamodel.pm6:
08:48 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix compile errors
08:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/352359509f
08:48 sorear tadzik: search for "Interface consistency" in S12 or S06
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10:35 sorear rakudo: sub flue($x is rw) {}; flue(5); say "alive"
10:35 p6eval rakudo a98c69: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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10:41 moritz_ rakudo's "is rw" doesn't work as it should
10:41 moritz_ it should fail to bind
10:42 moritz_ rakudo's 'is rw' is what should be 'is ref'
10:47 dalek niecza: 51aa3cd | sorear++ | v6n/Sig.pm6:
10:47 pumphaus hm, github still gives a 403 when I try to download 2010.12 -.-
10:47 dalek niecza: [v6] Translate Sig
10:47 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/51aa3cd3ba
10:47 sorear is ref isn't actually documented
10:49 moritz_ wait
10:49 moritz_ the 'is ref' I meant was renamed to 'is parcel' in 4bd6b5e
10:50 moritz_ +You may modify the argument, but only if argument is already a suitable
10:50 moritz_ +lvalue since, unlike C<rw>, no attempt at autovivification is made,
10:50 moritz_ +so unsuitable lvalues will throw an exception if you try to modify
10:50 moritz_ +them within the body of the routine.
10:51 sorear OH!
10:51 sorear a lot of stuff is a lot clearer now that I have that connection.
10:52 moritz_ \o/
10:52 sorear niecza: sub foo(\$x) { my @arr = $x; say +@arr }; foo((1,2,3)) # Discuss.
10:52 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«3␤»
10:52 sorear my 'is parcel' preserves the list bit
10:53 moritz_ right; it doesn't force $x to be a scalar, even though it has the $ sigil
10:53 moritz_ which is mightily confusing, but probably right
10:53 sorear the niecza setting couldn't exist without that
10:54 moritz_ right
10:54 moritz_ I just wish there was a distinction between "uncontexted" and "scalar" variables
10:54 sorear now, STD's placeholder system turns { ... } into -> $_ is ref = OUTER::<$_> { ... }
10:54 moritz_ s/ref/parcel/
10:54 sorear does this mean that $_ is potentially not a scalar in a bare block?
10:55 sorear moritz_: it still uses ref there actually.  Which made no sense until todya.
10:55 moritz_ I guess that's a fossile
10:55 moritz_ and yes, $_ could be a list
10:56 dalek rakudo: db11af9 | moritz++ | .gitignore:
10:56 dalek rakudo: gitignore tarball created for smoke reports, mikehh++
10:56 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/db11af90fa
10:57 sorear which means that $_ and $^x are potentially very different
10:57 moritz_ yes :(
10:57 * moritz_ wants the § sigil for variables with unknown context
11:11 sorear niecza: my $h = { map { ($_ => 1) }, 1, 2, 3 }; say $h.dump
11:11 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«UnknownSub␤»
11:11 sorear bleh
11:12 sorear niecza: my $h = %( map { ($_ => 1) }, 1, 2, 3 ); say $h.dump
11:12 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method hash in class List␤  at (eval) line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1064 (SAFE C381_ANON @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1064 (SAFE module-SAFE @ 29)␤  at
11:12 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/lib/…
11:12 sorear niecza: my $h = _hash_constructor( map { ($_ => 1) }, 1, 2, 3 ); say $h.dump
11:12 p6eval niecza v1-35-gc9d17a7: OUTPUT«{"1" => 1, "2" => 1, "3" => 1}␤»
11:12 * sorear ponders
11:13 sorear how should I translate this line of Perl 5?
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11:26 coldhead left #perl6
11:27 * moritz_ doesn't see a line of perl 5
11:31 masak joined #perl6
11:31 masak \o/
11:31 phenny masak: 05:15Z <lue> tell masak I still get that malformed UTF-8 string error, and AFAICT my .markdown file is in utf-8. Maybe I'll stumble upon the cause in the meantime :) .
11:31 masak lue: check again :)
11:32 masak either your UTF-8 is correct, or it's malformed. there's no third option.
11:38 * moritz_ has a crazy idea: parallelized automatic bisecting
11:39 masak as long as you have the computing power, sure.
11:39 masak you need to be able to tell a bunch of nodes: "guys! stop! it's over here!"
11:40 moritz_ well, I have more CPUs than are typically used during a rakudo rebuild, and enough mem
11:40 moritz_ and two machines in my local network
11:42 arnsholt Is it just me, or is checking out Parrot faster now that it's on git?
11:45 masak lots faster.
11:45 masak both the whole repo and comparable updates.
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11:57 arnsholt Yeah, that was my impression
11:58 masak S32/Str/substr is a joke. one can't just posit that .substr returns an lvalue substring, without also saying what type machinery needs to be in place for that to work. (we already know that .substr is not allowed to "cheat" by using non-p6 primitives.)
11:58 masak I'd say that that part of S32/Str is void by virtue of its naivety.
11:58 masak *naïvité
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12:04 masak Alias! \o/
12:05 masak Alias: it might please you to know that as of yesterday, 'done_testing' is called 'done' in the Perl 6 specification. :)
12:05 Alias Oh thank the fucking lord
12:05 masak :D
12:06 Alias It pisses me off more than I can possibly describe when people take a perfectly good API that describes things in concise since terms and start adding new things with extra superfluous words
12:06 Alias Usually because they don't speak english as a first language, and so don't trust themselves to get it right with just one word
12:07 Alias ok_test
12:07 Alias is_test
12:07 masak :(
12:07 Alias testing_plan
12:07 kanishka left #perl6
12:07 Alias use_module Foo::Bar;
12:07 masak please stop... :/
12:07 Alias Perl Language 6
12:07 Alias :)
12:07 masak urgh.
12:12 Alias Personally though, I also hate done()
12:12 Alias I think it makes people lazy
12:12 Alias But I see how it might be slightly better in some cases
12:12 masak I think it's not black-and-white.
12:12 Alias My main concern is the existance of it will make people try less hard to actually make proper test counts
12:12 Alias Which means less tests with test counts
12:13 masak why is that a concern?
12:13 Alias Which means we've traded improved-knowledge-of-early​-stopping-for-unknown-plans for increased-likelyhood-someone-won't-use-a-plan-and-​the-test-count-will-be-off-and-nobody-will-notice
12:14 apeiron left #perl6
12:15 Alias I've had test counts go wrong more times than I've had non-plan tests end prematurely with no obvious failure
12:15 Alias But I'm mostly a -0 on the issue
12:15 Alias I'm against it, but not enough for it to count
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12:17 masak I'm for it, but I don't mind when people use test plans, or argue for test plans.
12:17 masak I like not having to re-count the test plan each time I add or remove a few tests in my file.
12:17 masak I've not had much trouble with premature failures.
12:17 Alias That you know of
12:17 Alias oh wait
12:18 Alias You mean for no_plan ones
12:18 masak right.
12:18 masak had I had much trouble with premature failures in no_plan test files, I might be more sceptical as well.
12:19 masak but I haven't, so I'm not.
12:19 pmurias premature failures are taken care of by done()
12:20 masak right, that's why we need &done
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12:20 masak this all assumes a TAP harness to keep us informed, of course.
12:24 noganex left #perl6
12:27 pmurias masak: test's are usually run by a harness, or manually for inspection
12:28 pmurias Alias: doesn't updating the plan annoy you?
12:28 masak mst once pointed out that updating the plan works particularly badly with version system merges.
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12:29 masak that blog post of his was what initially made me lean towards 'done()' in my test files.
12:29 moritz_ masak: that sounds logical, but I haven't had that problem in practise really
12:29 masonkramer joined #perl6
12:29 * pmurias had once
12:30 masak moritz_: no, I think it's worse when many people crowd around a particular test file.
12:30 masak moritz_: some test files in the p5 repo have upwards of 17k tests.
12:30 colomon "The top referring sites [for justrakudoit] in 2010 were perlfoundation.org, reddit.com, planetsix.perl.org, Google Reader, and irclog.perlgeek.de." -- moritz_++
12:31 * moritz_ kinda hopes in vain that many people crowd around roast
12:31 kanishka joined #perl6
12:31 pmurias masak: imagine having to count them up to see if the plan count is wrong or the tests are
12:31 masak pmurias: I don't need to imagine very hard.
12:32 moritz_ I guess most people either only count the diffs, or just trust the count from TAP::Harness
12:32 masak pmurias: though usually what I do is make an idempotent s/is /is / replacement in vim and count the number of replacements. :)
12:32 masak s/count/read off/
12:33 pmurias moritz_: if you trust the count from TAP::Harness the whole point of the plan is broken
12:33 masak as soon as we have AST analyzers, we can start playing around with automated test counting.
12:36 moritz_ pmurias: right
12:37 Alias pmurias, sure. Doesn't declaring variables annoy you?
12:37 masak I don't think the analogy is very accurate.
12:37 Alias Test plans take more work, but give more reliable result
12:38 Alias With some extra typeing they remove a catagory of potential errors
12:38 Alias Via some additional strictness
12:38 Alias I think it's a reasonable analogy
12:38 masak declaring variables so that they stay in their scopes will help me as my application grows. keeping a test plan up-to-date will become increasingly difficult as my test file grows.
12:38 masak Alias: could you please explain in some more detail what the potential errors are?
12:38 masak it seems neither pmurias or I understand that.
12:39 Alias my @output = $some->function;
12:39 Alias foreach ( @output ) { isa_ok($_, 'Something') }
12:39 Alias How do you tell when it's returned the wrong number of things
12:39 Alias That's one notional example
12:39 Alias But there's tons of others
12:40 masak oh, I think you've blogged about this once.
12:40 colomon is +@output, right number of things.
12:40 moritz_ with  is scalar(@output), $expected_number, '...';
12:40 Alias If I don't have a plan, then all of a sudden I don't need to skip any more either
12:40 Alias I just shortcut
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12:40 masak ...and that's bad because...?
12:40 colomon but yeah, loops which exit prematurely are harder to detect without a fixed plan.
12:41 Alias Loops which exit prematurely, or conditionals which can silently evaluate wrong
12:41 masak one could argue that testing for the length of the array is a good test to have in there anyway, plan or no plan.
12:41 Alias In the old situation, the untested case was a test script which did a hard-non-error exit(0) prematurely
12:41 Alias masak: Sure it is, but you don't have to
12:41 Alias Just like using ? placeholders in DBI
12:41 masak even with a plan, there might be subtle errors which offset each other, ending up on the right test count.
12:42 Alias That is true
12:42 Alias But then you have an two-factor error case
12:42 Alias Which is likely to be exceedingly rare
12:42 masak right. it's a weak argument that way.
12:42 kanishka left #perl6
12:43 Alias Personally, I can't remember more than 1 or 2 cases in my entire career that a test script has done a premature silent exit() which was also in a test script that did not have an inherently plan
12:43 Alias I can remember lots where I got a loop count wrong
12:43 masak Alias: if you get loop counts wrong so often, why don't you test the length of the array?
12:44 Alias So in my opinion, we're fixing a very rare case and as a side effect encouraging greater use of unsafe behaviour
12:44 Alias masak: Because sometimes I'm lazy?
12:44 kanishka1 left #perl6
12:44 Alias Same thing with SQL and placeholders
12:45 Alias And I have a lot of faith in programmers tendency to be lazy
12:45 Alias As a collective userbase of Test::More
12:45 arthur-_ joined #perl6
12:45 masak arthur-_! \o/
12:45 masak arthur-_: happy new year!
12:45 arthur-_ masak: you too !
12:46 masak Alias: putting in a test plan as a safeguard against laziness. I buy that.
12:46 Alias right
12:46 Alias And part of this thing with done() is that it's been promoted
12:47 Alias I was reaonsably ok to have it, but I think you should HAVE to write explicitly no_plan in order to get it
12:47 Alias It should take MORE work to access the lazy option
12:47 Alias I'd even go so far as to leave it out of the SYNOPSIS
12:49 Alias Encouraging it's use annoys me more than having it there for the one case it does defend against
12:50 dalek ecosystem: df83462 | (Solomon Foster)++ | projects.list:
12:50 dalek ecosystem: Add Damian Conway's Testing module to ecosystem.
12:50 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/df834620d0
12:52 arnsholt Making &done undocumented would be a bad idea
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12:52 Alias Not undocumented
12:52 Alias Just not in the SYNOPSIS
12:52 arnsholt Especially since that would mean it would be non-standard
12:52 arnsholt The synopsis is the spec
12:53 Alias No it isn't
12:53 masak arnsholt: you're attacking a strawman.
12:53 Alias The SYNOPSIS is the bit at the top of the module
12:53 arnsholt masak: Good point
12:53 masak arnsholt: not undocumented, just removed from the SYNOPSIS section.
12:53 Alias That shows the most normal and common usage
12:53 arnsholt Oh, that synopsis
12:53 Alias right
12:53 masak yeah.
12:53 Alias (Capital SYNOPSIS, not Synopsis)
12:53 masak Alias wasn't shouting, he was using a technical term. :)
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13:10 moritz_ things I wish perl 5 had: a switch to log all IO
13:10 moritz_ like the system() or chdir() or exec() arguments
13:10 moritz_ I guess in Perl 6 it's easier to do, because run() isn't parsed as specially as system() is in p5
13:13 masak Arc has this nice kind of function that takes a closure, and every 'say' or other output to $*OUT is gathered up into a string and returned from that function.
13:14 moritz_ not hard to do in Perl 6 either
13:15 moritz_ in fact that's a nice module to write :-)
13:15 masak aye.
13:16 colomon go moritz_, go!
13:16 moritz_ it just needs a class that supports .print and .say (and maybe .write), and then set $*OUT and $*ERR to instances of that
13:16 masak the benefits of designing stuff right :)
13:17 shi joined #perl6
13:18 moritz_ rakudo: class Dummy { method print(*@_) { }; method say(*@_) { } }; my $*ERR = Dummy.new; die "should not show up"
13:18 p6eval rakudo db11af: OUTPUT«should not show up␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/iMWFJotqZL␤»
13:18 moritz_ am I right?
13:18 * masak submits rakudobug
13:18 masak think so.
13:19 masak well, depends on in which scope the error is printed, I guess.
13:19 masak but it's worth getting a verdict on.
13:20 moritz_ there might be some in-the-setting exception handler that catches and prints to $*ERR
13:20 moritz_ so it's not the localized $*ERR
13:20 masak right.
13:21 masak in fact, for the error to boil up all the way out of the program, it's pretty much certain that we've left the scope where $*ERR was overridden.
13:21 masak so this is probably a non-bug.
13:22 * moritz_ unsubmits the rakudobug :-)
13:22 masak *poof*
13:24 * moritz_ tries his new script for bisecting parrotbugs through rakudo
13:27 arnsholt rakudo: class Dummy { method print(*@_) { }; method say(*@_) { } }; $*ERR := Dummy.new; die "should not show up"
13:27 p6eval rakudo db11af: OUTPUT«should not show up␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fWXB7EOyH1␤»
13:27 masak hm... not declaring $*ERR *would* change matter, wouldn't it?
13:27 dalek ecosystem: 7f3cf76 | (Solomon Foster)++ | projects.list:
13:27 dalek ecosystem: Add Damian Conway's IO::Prompter to the ecosystem.
13:27 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/7f3cf760f5
13:27 * masak whirrs up the bug-submitter again
13:28 masak arnsholt++
13:28 moritz_ not at all
13:28 * masak whirrs down
13:29 arnsholt I suppose it depends on where and how $*ERR is set up
13:31 colomon moritz_: I hate to say it, but Damian's Testing code is beautiful.
13:31 moritz_ I imagine the setting to look like  this:  try { YOU_ARE_HERE }; $*ERR.print($!) if $!;
13:31 colomon OK have => prompt(:integer, in => IN('a','1.2','-42a','-12')),
13:31 colomon want => -12,
13:31 colomon desc => "Require an integer";
13:32 arnsholt masak: Consolation prize
13:32 arnsholt rakudo: class Dummy { method print(*@_) { }; method say(*@_) { } }; my $*IN = Dummy.new; say "should not show up"
13:32 p6eval rakudo db11af: OUTPUT«should not show up␤»
13:32 masak arnsholt: $*IN?
13:33 arnsholt >.<
13:33 arnsholt I r an idiot =D
13:33 * masak hugs arnsholt
13:33 arnsholt I blame your competition
13:33 arnsholt I've been thinking too much about parsing all the input from stdin ;)
13:34 arnsholt Given that, I guess it's just as well I don't have to do actual work 'till tomorrow
13:34 masak arnsholt: make sure you submit as solutions some of that thinking you've been making. :)
13:35 arnsholt *giggle*
13:35 arnsholt I just need to implement some of that thinking as well
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13:45 moritz_ git question: why does 'git describe' work out of the box in the rakudo repo, but needs the --tags option in the parrot repo?
13:46 masak moritz_: from the manpage: "By default (without --all or --tags) git describe only shows annotated tags."
13:46 masak maybe that's a clue.
13:46 moritz_ what's an annotated tag?
13:46 masak I don't know what an annotated tag is, but it does sound relevant.
13:46 masak "For more information about creating annotated tags see the -a and -s options to git-tag(1)." :)
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13:47 masak nom &
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13:48 moritz_ git-tag only mentions that it can create annotated tags
13:48 moritz_ wwow
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14:00 lopnor hi, I finally made fully perl6-written blog online!
14:00 lopnor http://journal6.soffritto.org/
14:00 lopnor superslow so you have to wait about 3min.
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14:11 moritz_ lopnor: cool idea. What do you think of a caching proxy? :-)
14:11 lopnor moritz_: i should:)
14:12 yarp joined #perl6
14:12 lopnor but the best is perl6 is enought fast to return all request in time!
14:12 moritz_ or generate static HTML in the first place (though that would probably require many changes)
14:12 moritz_ lopnor: is the source code online somewhere?
14:13 lopnor https://github.com/lopnor/p6-journal
14:13 lopnor this is blog code
14:13 lopnor https://github.com/lopnor/p6-plackdo
14:13 lopnor this is firmware code
14:14 moritz_ lopnor: care to add it the official module list?
14:15 lopnor and this is same blog retuned with perl5 http://journal.soffritto.org/
14:15 moritz_ lopnor: you now have commit access to http://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/
14:15 lopnor great!
14:16 moritz_ (and most other repos in the perl6 organization, for that matter. Like test suite, mu, ...)
14:16 lopnor moritz_: i'm warrying plackdo conflict some specs with 'web'
14:17 flussence re: tags; annotated tag is just a tag with the tag's "commit message" filled in
14:17 flussence (which is what -a/s prompt you for)
14:19 flussence (also, those messages show up in qgit's statusbar but I don't think github shows them...)
14:23 moritz_ lopnor: don't worry; I haven't seen any real world application of 'web', and "works" wins over "specs" :-)
14:23 moritz_ at least regarding modules
14:23 lopnor k, will work harder!
14:24 lopnor moritz_: thank you!
14:24 moritz_ lopnor: you're very welcome
14:24 moritz_ fwiw I get 502 proxy errors from your blog
14:24 rindolf joined #perl6
14:24 moritz_ "The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server.
14:24 moritz_ The proxy server could not handle the request GET /."
14:24 rindolf Hi all.
14:25 lopnor moritz_: yes, this blog runs with single process, i will enhance handler with prefork strategy.
14:25 moritz_ rakudo: pir::fork(); say 3
14:25 p6eval rakudo db11af: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n', expecting '('␤  in file 'EVAL_10' line 86␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
14:26 lopnor currently thinking fork with NativeCall
14:26 moritz_ right, that's probably the only working solution today
14:26 moritz_ lopnor++ # cool perl 6 code
14:27 lopnor almost every code is stolen from plack in perl5.
14:28 lopnor so coolness is for miyagawa.
14:28 moritz_ well, you ported it and made it run
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14:29 lopnor :)
14:35 lopnor now you can see http://journal6.soffritto.org/ , i think
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15:00 moritz_ lopnor: yes, works now
15:00 moritz_ though I seem to lack fonts to display all of it properly
15:00 lopnor moritz_: written in japanese so you would need japanese fonts.
15:01 moritz_ even then I couldn't read it :(
15:01 lopnor if you see yellow squares it's css brought by perl6.
15:02 moritz_ just the favicon is a yellow square
15:03 flussence ooh, nice
15:04 lopnor moritz_:  ah, its writen by perl6 :)
15:05 lopnor i will work harder to deliver thins more faster (in application layer).
15:05 flussence btw, "* { size: 90% }" is probably meant to be "body { font-size: 90% }" :)
15:05 lopnor flussence: yes!
15:05 lopnor my css is very bad work :P
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15:07 flussence (Chrom[e|ium] puts a little warning symbol next to unknown css in the inspector now, nice)
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15:15 pmurias Alias: for me the main reason why i hate test plans is not the extra typing but the fact that when is that i tend to forget updating them and i waste time counting tests
15:15 pmurias Alias: the error you ran 11 tests instead of 12 isn't a very helpfull one
15:16 pmurias Alias: if you keep track of the plan easily and do tricky stuff in the tests the plan might be helpfull
15:18 pmurias Alias: but for me it's a tiny gain for a huge annoyance
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15:21 flussence it's a lot like having to manually set the size of an array
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15:22 flussence what I usually do is just stick all my tests in an array and plan +@stuff; :)
15:23 * pmurias likes that
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15:55 dalek niecza: 67a3e6f | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
15:55 dalek niecza: added Niecza::Frontend::STD which will be responsible for the parsing
15:55 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/67a3e6fff6
15:55 dalek niecza: 77dab6d | pmurias++ | v6n/ (5 files):
15:55 dalek niecza: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:sorear/niecza
15:55 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/77dab6d805
15:55 pmurias argh forgot git pull --rebase :(
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16:17 colomon hmmm.
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16:20 colomon Fixed ufo to handle sources in lib6 directories last night.
16:20 colomon But it installs them into .perl6/lib6   -- and Rakudo doesn't recognize that.
16:21 colomon Change ufo or change Rakudo?
16:24 tadzik ufo imno
16:25 * tadzik tunes module::tools
16:26 colomon tadzik: I think you might be right, but unfortunately that's the hard answer.  :)
16:26 tadzik is it?
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16:29 kraai_ Hi.  The top-level README in Rakudo * 2010.12 says that it's from the 2010.08 release.
16:29 tadzik . o O ( amap: appenging map )
16:30 tadzik kraai_: that sounds wrong indeed, thanks for letting us know
16:31 kraai_ tadzik: You're welcome.
16:37 pumphaus oh wow, we can finally download it :)
16:41 colomon tadzik: I'd certainly rather tweak Rakudo than try to sort out how to make a significant modification to ufo's makefile generation.
16:48 tadzik the "Suprise lib6" case made me think about some sorf of a META file, with info about where to find stuff
16:49 tadzik I feel like a blag post promoting the idea, or rather provoking a discussion
16:50 tadzik fixing every possible tool in a module toolchain because there appeared a module with different dirs feels LTA
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16:55 jimfuller lazy request:  whats the state of visual gui (gtk, etc) integration with perl6 these days ?
16:56 tadzik tk is reported to work on blizkost or zavolaj
16:56 tadzik I know of no other attempts, feel free to try
16:56 tadzik (I think that was blizkost)
16:57 jimfuller ok, cheers for the info
16:58 tadzik you're welcome
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17:02 masak lopnor: wow!
17:02 masak that is seriously impressive.
17:03 masak lopnor: I think your best chance at speed at this point is to make your code work on niecza.
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17:09 masak moving &
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17:11 colomon tadzik: sorry for disappearing there.
17:11 colomon I think we need to set standards.
17:11 kanishka left #perl6
17:11 colomon and in the meantime, I'm just going to change Damian's modules to use lib instead of lib6.
17:14 tadzik good eye deer
17:15 _jaldhar is now known as jaldhar
17:16 * TimToady is still recovering from a spiral write on my disk drive yesterday morning, or maybe a minor headcrash
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17:16 TimToady it's a bad thing when your OS decides to remount your filesystem ro
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17:17 moritz_ oh dear yes
17:17 TimToady and of course it clobbered the inode table and most of my top-level directories
17:18 TimToady everything ended up in lost+found; well, everything it could get back
17:18 colomon oh noez!
17:18 TimToady still haven't seen my home directory anywhere...
17:18 TimToady fortunately, most of what I care about is backed up on the net
17:19 TimToady and though I'm running in a different partition now (and used the excuse to upgrade to 64-bit ubuntu), I don't really trust my disk anymore
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17:21 colomon tadzik: lib6 to lib done and pushed.
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17:53 dalek rakudo: fc2db18 | KodiB++ | / (2 files):
17:53 dalek rakudo: Added a Perl 5 script to update the leap-second tables in tai-utc.pm.
17:53 dalek rakudo:
17:53 dalek rakudo: I tried to do it in Perl 6 first, but I couldn't get perl6-lwp-simple to work.
17:53 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fc2db18ac9
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18:03 moritz_ my hacking on a bisecting script for parrot found a perl 5 bug :-)
18:04 moritz_ (well, an autodie bug, to be exact)
18:05 moritz_ maybe we should put instructions into the release managers guide to run the script after a release, and commit the results
18:05 moritz_ where by "the script" I meant KodiB++'s last commit
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18:08 pmichaud I'm not sure that should be part of the release process
18:09 pmichaud regenerating and/or updating src/core/tai-utc.pm should be in response to bugfix/maintenance, not part of release
18:16 TimToady We should name our Metamodel Metalmode
18:16 pmichaud yamm
18:17 pmichaud (yet another meta model)
18:21 TimToady sorear: STD does do a certain amount of error recovery from semantic errors--that's what sorry() is for
18:33 perigrin MeatAlaMode
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18:59 sorear TimToady: how impossible would it be for STD to recover from a misplaced ) and report errors further along the file?
19:00 sorear good * #perl6
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19:03 sorear phenny: tell masak What do you mean that substr cannot use non-p6 primitives?  How else is it supposed to inspect an opaque Str?
19:03 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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19:26 sorear TimToady: I've never heard of a spiral write before.
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19:46 diakopter metamodel -> Told A Meme
19:50 rindolf I met a model.
19:54 dalek sprixel: 6bbccc5 | diakopter++ | / (13 files):
19:54 dalek sprixel: another wip commit.
19:54 dalek sprixel: got generic types working on .net (largely imported/ported from the
19:54 dalek sprixel: previous perlesque); still need to validate/debug them on mono.
19:54 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/6bbccc5b3b
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20:15 lue ohai fellow zebras o/
20:15 moritz_ \o
20:17 colomon o/
20:36 * moritz_ has now submitted a solution for each of masak's five tasks, each good enough to pass base-test
20:39 colomon what is base-test?
20:40 colomon my p5 is still problematic.
20:40 colomon and I didn't see any tests included for it?  the writeup seemed incomplete next to the others, though the concept is obviously straightforward.
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20:46 lue Just out of curiosity, do I need the line    module A::B;    in the file A/B.pm? [doesn't [seem to] hurt anything, just wondering if it's redundant]
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20:51 moritz_ yes
20:51 moritz_ though class A::B { ... } will do too
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20:51 moritz_ eventually the contents of the module file will be authorotative, not the name
20:52 lue how do you mean?
20:53 flussence filesystems are just an implementation detail :P
20:53 lue Does that mean the name won't tell you everything, eventually?
20:55 moritz_ correct
20:55 moritz_ the spec says that we must be able to map module names that aren't directly mappable to file names
20:55 moritz_ like case sensitivity on case insensitive file systems
20:55 moritz_ or Unicode names on ASCII-only file systems
20:56 moritz_ and then there's this whole thing about versions and authorities
20:57 * lue gets the sneaking feeling that S11 says more than he thinks if he were to just read it like a gripping adventure novel.
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21:02 moritz_ we had a brainstorming session on it, and then a hackathon to implement parts of it
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21:05 lue There's something about the module system I don't like. I'll read S11 first, and then see if I still don't like it.
21:05 * lue reads
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21:10 tadzik lue: what about the module system?
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21:16 lue I honestly don't know [yet]. Maybe it's because it's (Not Yet|Not Well) Implemented.
21:16 dalek sprixel: 3d6211f | diakopter++ | / (7 files):
21:16 dalek sprixel: fixed if/else without intervening elsif, and various other things.
21:16 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/3d6211f3ed
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21:19 diakopter pmurias: hi
21:20 tadzik lue: you mean a CPAN-like infrastructure?
21:21 pmurias diakopter: hi
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21:23 moritz_ it certainly isn't well implemented yet
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21:28 pmurias sorear: how often does the compiled by niecza STD use coroutines?
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21:31 sorear pmurias: every call to &map, &grep creates one; every 'regex' creates one
21:32 lue moritz_: eventually, would I be able to store module A::B in places other than A/B.pm ?
21:34 moritz_ lue: yes
21:34 moritz_ though how "other" exactly they are going to be, I don't know yet
21:34 dalek niecza: 7a14f4f | pmurias++ | src/Niecza/Backend/NAM.pm:
21:34 dalek niecza: added the backend which outputs the ast as NAM
21:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7a14f4feb5
21:34 dalek niecza: 09646fd | pmurias++ | niecza:
21:34 dalek niecza: started creating the script for the refactored compiler
21:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/09646fd224
21:35 pmurias sorear: so the mono specific continuation stuff would slow us down?
21:38 lue Is A:name<B> always referred to as A:name<B>?
21:38 diakopter pmurias: yay; man-or-boy.t is working again :D
21:39 diakopter sorear: does man-or-boy work on niecza?
21:39 moritz_ lue: my $x = A:name<B> # now you can refer to it by $x
21:39 diakopter (I'm not challenging, merely curious b/c I don't know)
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21:40 lue Let me see if I got this right: if module A comes with a shortname (e.g. :name<B>), then you can    use B;    instead of    use A;    , right?
21:41 pmurias diakopter: is copy is not implemented yet in niecza
21:41 diakopter pmurias: why would 'is copy' matter?
21:41 moritz_ you can easily change the test not to use "is copy"
21:41 diakopter (right)
21:42 diakopter my version is quite different, b/c it uses primitive types only
21:42 diakopter well, and strongly-typed closures
21:42 moritz_ I get
21:42 moritz_ Can't use an undefined value as an ARRAY reference at /home/moritz/p6/niecza/src/NAMBackend.pm line 96.
21:42 moritz_ while trying to compile man-or-boy.t with niecza
21:42 * moritz_ -> sleep
21:43 diakopter nite
21:43 lue My question was, does the longname ever get shown as anything other than A:name<B> ?
21:43 lue 'night, moritz_ o/
21:43 pmurias moritz_: rm -fr obj/
21:44 diakopter lue: sorry; I don't know :(
21:48 lue that's alright, it's just my curiosity, I don't actually need the info :) .
21:49 diakopter pmurias: e.g. here's my edition: http://perl6.pastebin.com/raw.php?i=AXhUA23d
21:49 pmurias sorear: i'm thinking ->run is not a good name for the method in passes, what would a good one be? ->tranform,->process?
21:49 dalek sprixel: bfd7f45 | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (3 files):
21:49 dalek sprixel: finish getting man-or-boy.t to work.  strongly-typed edition works. :)
21:49 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/bfd7f456d1
21:54 sorear pmurias: invoke?
21:55 diakopter phenny: ask TimToady in the following primitive-typed edition of man-or-boy http://perl6.pastebin.com/raw.php?i=AXhUA23d I postulated a shorthand to write type annotations for "generic" Callables (that are strongly-typed)... could you please [in-]validate that such a construct could work?
21:55 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
21:55 sorear lue: you could also use A:name( "B" )
21:55 sorear er, :name[ "B" ]
21:57 diakopter phenny: ask TimToady but ignore the '&' "sigil" before 'B' - I'm removing that curiosity from this perlesque dialect
21:57 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
21:57 pmurias sorear: we could have passes as subs but i thing code reuse between the different passes will be important
21:59 dalek niecza: 756b65f | pmurias++ | / (5 files):
21:59 dalek niecza: passes and Niecza::Compiler that will tie stuff together
21:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/756b65f72a
21:59 dalek niecza: 8f0056c | pmurias++ | src/Niecza/ (4 files):
21:59 dalek niecza: change the ->run method of passes to ->invoke
21:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8f0056ce80
21:59 pmurias sorear: changed
22:01 sorear pmurias: are you planning to kill CompilerDriver and niecza_eval ?
22:02 pmurias once niecza and the refactored stuff yes
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22:03 pmurias i don't want to break stuff so i'm letting CompilerDriver live for now
22:04 sorear pmurias: why does the 'niecza' script need to know about the internal passes?  I call most of them ugly implementation details
22:04 sorear Why doesn't Niecza::Compiler.compile use named arguments?
22:04 pmurias it should use those
22:05 pmurias niecza is a placeholder for testing
22:05 pmurias what should specify the passes?
22:06 sorear Niecza::Compiler?
22:07 pmurias different backends/flag combinations can have different passes
22:07 pmurias in mildew i used Bread::Board but i don't to pay the price for it's loading time
22:07 pmurias s/to/want to/
22:08 pmurias but i'm trying to do dependency injection manual
22:12 dalek niecza: eb2e337 | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
22:12 dalek niecza: make Niecz::Compiler use named arguments
22:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/eb2e33706d
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22:13 pmurias sorear: but we can store all the ugly implementation details in a seperate file
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22:15 lue .oO(S11:535 is closely related to the bit in S01 about P5-by-default, just so you know.)
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22:17 pmurias sorear: what does stagetime argument to CompilerDriver do?
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22:20 patrickas rakudo: my $r = 2..4;say pick 2,3,4;say $r.pick;say pick($r);
22:20 p6eval rakudo fc2db1: OUTPUT«43␤3␤␤»
22:20 sorear pmurias: implements the -v compiler option; try ./niecza_eval -v -e 'say 2+2'
22:20 patrickas should the last pick act like the first or the second?
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22:20 pmurias so it should be named verbose?
22:21 sorear pmurias: that would work too, but it prints stage times, so stagetime seemed like a good name
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23:04 sorear nice netsplit.
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23:08 diakopter wb all
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