Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-09

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:08 lue in a for loop (e.g    for @a -> $b), is there an easy way to tell if I have the last element of @a in $b ? [ I was thinking of creating some sort of $last flag if not ]
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00:12 tadzik lue: if $b == @a[*-1]?
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00:22 lue That's what I'll do. I was just wondering if there was some nifty hidden function in a for loop I was unaware of :)
00:24 tadzik jnthn: I'm tadzik :)
00:25 tadzik „Encouraged by tadzkik++, added META.info files to some of my modules”
00:35 pmurias joined #perl6
00:38 dalek niecza: 301b2c1 | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
00:38 dalek niecza: hacking on the lisp backend to bring it closer to subs
00:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/301b2c19dc
00:38 dalek niecza: 183d166 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/backend.lisp:
00:38 dalek niecza: sub calls work in the clisp backend
00:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/183d166fda
00:38 dalek sprixel: 4e9752d | diakopter++ | / (15 files):
00:38 dalek sprixel: enable fully recursive/self-referential custom classes
00:38 dalek sprixel: (in their attribute type annotations & method signatures).
00:38 dalek sprixel: Validate single inheritance works with the same.
00:38 dalek sprixel: Had to prepend YApass. :)
00:38 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/4e9752d3d0
00:40 diakopter pmurias: hi :)
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00:40 pmurias diakopter: hi
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00:51 dalek sprixel: 68b9a2a | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (5 files):
00:51 dalek sprixel: don't use a class munging prefix... I guess.
00:51 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/68b9a2ad4c
00:59 dalek niecza: 2e66cf1 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/backend.lisp:
00:59 dalek niecza: add &infix:~ to the clisp backend
00:59 dalek niecza: pass 01-sanity.t
00:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2e66cf1c08
00:59 pmurias sorear: i'll hack on the clisp backend so i don't get in the way
01:09 dalek sprixel: c74daea | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (2 files):
01:09 dalek sprixel: strip sigil from attribute name... I guess
01:09 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/c74daeab79
01:10 diakopter perlesque: class Foo is Bar { has string $slot1; my $f=Foo.new(); method la { say("slot1 is: "~this.get_Bar_f().slot1); say($f~this.tra()); say("slot1 is: "~this.get_Bar_f().slot1) } }; class Bar { my $f=Foo.new(); method baz { $f.slot1="heehee" }; method get_Bar_f(-->Foo){return $f}; method tra(-->string){this.baz(); return "oopsie"}}; Foo.new().la()
01:10 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«slot1 is: ␤Foooopsie␤slot1 is: heehee␤»
01:10 diakopter har. not readable
01:10 diakopter (and yes I know the attribute declaration syntax is not correct)
01:14 dalek sprixel: 072d593 | diakopter++ | / (6 files):
01:14 dalek sprixel: fix attribute syntax so it's a *little* closer to spec
01:14 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/072d5936f6
01:14 diakopter there, a little better:
01:15 diakopter perlesque: class Foo is Bar { has string $!slot1; my $f=Foo.new(); method la { say("slot1 is: "~this.get_Bar_f()!slot1); say($f~this.tra()); say("slot1 is: "~this.get_Bar_f()!slot1) } }; class Bar { my $f=Foo.new(); method baz { $f!slot1="heehee" }; method get_Bar_f(-->Foo){return $f}; method tra(-->string){this.baz(); return "oopsie"}}; Foo.new().la()
01:15 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«slot1 is: ␤Foooopsie␤slot1 is: heehee␤»
01:15 diakopter I dunno how to deal with "private" field access on an object other than on "this"
01:16 diakopter sorear: do you know?
01:16 diakopter masak?  anyone?
01:16 sorear ldfld?
01:16 diakopter no, I mean p6 syntax
01:16 pmurias ldfld?
01:17 sorear diakopter: $obj!field
01:17 pmurias is there a test suit for young perl 6 implementations?
01:17 diakopter ok..  so I'd have to store to a tmp var instead of this? (ewww)  this.get_Bar_f()!slot1
01:17 sorear diakopter: that will work too
01:18 diakopter oh good :)
01:18 * diakopter tries it out on std
01:18 sorear pmurias: this is why niecza has its own test suite.... you might be able to use the early parts as is
01:18 * sorear is researching filesystems
01:18 pmurias there are sanity tests
01:19 pmurias mu/t/01-sanity
01:21 pmurias where can i find early revisions of pugs?
01:21 diakopter heh
01:24 dalek sprixel: 445c781 | diakopter++ | / (6 files):
01:24 dalek sprixel: argh. rename 'this' to 'self' globally; /me dumb, for the 90th time at least.
01:24 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/445c781874
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01:25 takadonet yo
01:25 pmurias would anybody else besides me have a use for a simplified tests suit? (having simple tests for very basic functionality)?
01:25 diakopter there we go
01:25 pmurias diakopter: ?
01:25 diakopter pmurias: sure, me
01:26 diakopter "there we go" referred to 445c781
01:26 pmurias diakopter: perlesque requires type info on things?
01:27 diakopter technically, yeah, but in reality it infers types on declarations. but if you want a variable to be "wider" than its initializing expression, you can denote the wider type
01:27 diakopter technically, meaning, "to conform to spec" ;)
01:28 pmurias i can also reuse tests from mildew
01:28 pmurias sleep&
01:29 diakopter in other words, the subset of p6 that is perlesque requires type annotations on all declarations of lexicals and routine signatures. but a hidden "easter egg" feature is that it can infer types. ;)
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01:29 diakopter (which isn't to spec, since those would normally be much wider, like Any or Cool or Mu or whatever they do these days
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01:37 sorear diakopter: is it possible in .net to use a single code path for all kinds of file system objects, or am I stuck doing Directory.Exists(str) ? Directory.GetCreationTime(str) : File.GetCreationTime(str)
01:38 lue are @x[1][1] and @a[1;1] equivalent expressions?
01:40 TimToady with those particular values they are, but [][] can't deal with multidimensionality
01:40 TimToady well, I oversimplify
01:41 TimToady [][] cannot express multidimensionality; it can only deref one dimension at a time
01:41 TimToady you can write @a[ ||@hyperslice ] which has implied ;'s in it
01:42 lue rakudo: my @a = [1,2],[3,4]; say @a[1][1]; say @a[1;1]
01:42 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«4␤3 4␤»
01:42 lue bug?
01:42 TimToady sure looks like, but rakudo does almost none of S09 yet
01:43 TimToady is probably evalating 1;1 as a statement list and getting 1
01:44 takadonet yet
01:44 TimToady *u
01:45 TimToady rakudo: my @a = [1,2],[3,4]; say @a[42;1]
01:45 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«3 4␤»
01:45 TimToady sometimes the answer to LUE is meaningless :)
01:47 lue rakudo: 42?;
01:47 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "42?;"␤»
01:51 TimToady sorear: you can't combine $x with Parcel($x) if that's the distinction you need to dispatch infix:<=> correctly to item vs listy container; druther say that they are distinct but that items can behave like parcels at need
01:53 TimToady or are you thinking of distinguishing $x= from ($x)= some other way?
01:54 TimToady (not distinguishing them is, I think, not acceptable to the Perl 5 brane, which I have one of)
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01:55 diakopter perlesque: my @a = [[1,2],[3,4]]; say(@a[1][1]);
01:55 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«4␤»
01:57 diakopter perlesque: my @a = [[1,2],[3,4]]; say(@a[1][1]); say(@a[1;1]);
01:57 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.ArgumentException: Index count mismatch␤  at sprixel.Operands.ArrayAccess..ctor (sprixel.Operand array, sprixel.Operand[] indexes) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at sprixel.Operand.get_Item (sprixel.Operand[] indexes) [0x00000] in <filename
01:57 p6eval ..unknow…
01:58 TimToady perlesque: my @a[2;2] = (1,2),(2,4);  say @a[1][1]; say @a[1;1]
01:58 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«unhandled node type: <invalid>␤Statement_list 1␤ Statement_list 2␤  Sub_declaration 3␤   IDENT say␤   Statement_list 1␤    Statement_list 1␤     Infix_expr 1␤      Infix_expr 1␤       Infix_expr 1␤        Infix_expr 1␤         Infix_expr 1␤          Infix_expr 1␤
01:58 p6eval ..Tail_exp…
01:58 diakopter I think I can make that work
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01:58 diakopter there's no list context
02:00 diakopter perlesque: my int @a[2;2]; @a = [[1,2],[3,4]]; say(@a[1;1])
02:00 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.InvalidCastException: Cannot convert type from 'System.Int32[][]' to 'System.Int32[,]'␤  at sprixel.Conversion+Invalid.Emit (sprixel.CodeGen g, System.Type from, System.Type to) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at sprixel.CodeGen.Convert
02:00 p6eval ..(sprixel.Op…
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02:01 diakopter no list context, meaning only the [] work
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02:02 diakopter I can get the accessor to work, but maybe not the decomposing setter
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02:02 diakopter well, maybe
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02:06 diakopter given that perlesque is generally intended to be an intermediate representation and a language in which to write a bootstrapping compiler framework, such literals (such as one might find in one-off scripts or stand-alone programs) aren't expected to be a common case
02:07 TimToady 1 way to write something is probably sufficient in that case
02:07 diakopter perlesque: my int @a[2;2]; @a[0;0]=1;@a[0;1]=2;@a[1;0]=3;@a[1;1]=4; say(@a[1;1])
02:07 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«4␤»
02:07 diakopter there's the way :)
02:08 diakopter actually there is a blockcopy routine that one can use from a flat array...
02:08 diakopter since the multidim array is stored flat anyway...
02:08 diakopter perlesque: my long @a[2;2]; @a[0;0]=1;@a[0;1]=2;@a[1;0]=3;@a[1;1]=4; say(@a[1;1])
02:08 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«4␤»
02:09 diakopter perlesque: my decimal @a[2;2]; @a[0;0]=1;@a[0;1]=2;@a[1;0]=3;@a[1;1]=4; say(@a[1;1])
02:09 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.InvalidProgramException: Invalid IL code in t:Exec (): IL_003d: ldelema   0x01000004␤␤␤  at sprixel.FrameBase.Run () [0x00000] in <filename
02:09 p6eval ..unkno…
02:09 diakopter oo interesting; runsharp bug
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02:10 diakopter perlesque: my decimal $a = 4; say($a.GetType)
02:10 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«System.Decimal␤»
02:11 diakopter perlesque: my decimal128 $a = 4; say($a.GetType)
02:11 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: could not resolve type decimal128␤  at sprixel.Env.ResolveType (System.String typeName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at sprixel.perlesqueParser.emitCode (sprixel.Env e, Antlr.Runtime.Tree.CommonTree node,
02:11 p6eval ..Antlr.Runtime.Tree.CommonTree…
02:11 diakopter heh
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02:16 lue blog post! https://rdstar.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/ordinal-numbers-and-musical-camelias/
02:16 lue afk
02:19 diakopter TimToady: now that perlesque has 1. classes with single inheritance (from clr builtin types or perlesque-declared types), 2. method & attribute signatures that can refer to other perlesque classes, 3. recursive method invocations incorporated into the ("stackless") trampoline, 4. typed (multidim) arrays, and 5. recursive/nested eval EXPR,  it's *finally* ready to accept highly desugared p5 code
02:19 diakopter Cursor, and translated from STD
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02:20 TimToady \o/
02:21 diakopter I guess what I'm asking is, how can I help provide use cases/tests for STD_P5 :)
02:21 diakopter a leading question if ever I saw one
02:22 TimToady Your leading question balances out my trailing answer rather nicely.
02:24 diakopter hrm
02:25 diakopter anyone have comments on http://host04.appflux.net/STD.pm6.simple.html  before I link it from perl6.org/compilers/std-viv ?
02:31 TimToady the bold/normal distinctions kinda bother me
02:32 diakopter how should they be adjusted/removed?
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02:33 diakopter seems like it's bolding comments, variable names, and sigils
02:33 TimToady and normal methods, but not <.methods>
02:33 diakopter oh, hm, this is weird
02:34 diakopter search for  backslash:oldbackref
02:34 diakopter must be a mis-parse
02:35 TimToady something wierd on push @nibbles too
02:35 TimToady one of the pushes is bold
02:36 diakopter which browser are you using
02:36 TimToady ff
02:36 diakopter odd; both chrome and ff have oldbackref in blue
02:36 diakopter I mean
02:36 diakopter sec
02:36 TimToady in the particular fonts I'm using, I rather everything was bold
02:37 TimToady the non-bold is hard to read
02:37 TimToady and the colors disappear-ish
02:37 diakopter backslash before oldbackref is marked "_scalar"
02:38 diakopter whereas backslash before the others is marked "regex_declarator"
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02:38 TimToady I've always thought that highlighter was a bit...suboptimal
02:39 diakopter mebbe we should verify it's not a bug in std...
02:39 TimToady I'd think sorear++ would have found it if so
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02:41 diakopter but oldbackref ff. are error paths
02:42 diakopter (so maybe std is failing to parse something that token line, and it's falling back to some kind of scaler
02:42 diakopter scalar
02:42 TimToady Herestub.new is also strange in the pair list
02:44 * diakopter adds some tracing to the hiliter
02:45 TimToady something wrong in the token comment: area too
02:47 TimToady the highlighter seems to keep some state that is unrelated to the actual context, and gets out of sync, rather than relying on the stack of outer contexts, I think
02:47 TimToady iirc
02:47 * diakopter looks at redspans_traverse
02:49 * TimToady wanders off for a bit
02:49 diakopter oh wait
02:49 diakopter this is TimToady code
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03:57 takadonet quiet night...
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04:11 sorear TimToady: actually, it's more a case of me wanting ($x) and ($x,) to be the same
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04:39 lopaway is now known as lopnor
04:45 takadonet rakudo: my $x= ' '; $x ~~ s:g/ /\\s/; say $x;
04:45 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\s \s␤»
04:49 TimToady er...
04:49 TimToady I see what happened, but it should've been a compile error
04:50 TimToady std: my $x= ' '; $x ~~ s:g/ /\\s/; say $x;
04:50 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/RpxVpfZ42U line 1:␤------> [32mmy $x= ' '; $x ~~ s:g/ [33m⏏[31m/\\s/; say $x;[0m␤    expecting quantifier␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 123m␤»
04:52 takadonet indeed
04:52 takadonet it's the :g flag that mucking it up
04:53 TimToady no, it's working exactly as it ought to, if it really were matching a null string
04:53 takadonet ic
04:54 TimToady rakudo: my $x= ' '; $x ~~ s:g/ ' ' /\\s/; say $x;
04:54 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\s␤»
04:54 TimToady rakudo: my $x= ' '; $x ~~ s:g/ '' /\\s/; say $x;
04:54 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\s \s␤»
04:55 takadonet well i already changed my p5 code that i'm ported to my workaround....
04:55 takadonet fix it later
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06:04 diakopter TimToady: I reduced it to a minimal test case (that causes "b" to be marked a "_scalar" instead of "regex_declarator").. I realize it's not very sensical, but it parses:   $<l>; token b { . }
06:05 diakopter I suspect something is not actually descending into the <l>
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06:10 diakopter oh, I think I found the bug
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06:16 diakopter o_O
06:16 diakopter brane gymnastics are a good use of saturday evening
06:18 * diakopter tests the fix on the full STD.pm6
06:22 diakopter closer, hm... /me keeps at it
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06:27 diakopter :/
06:27 redicaps perl6: @a=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:27 p6eval niecza v1-111-g2e66cf1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/XsvUGQwG56 line 1:␤------> [32m@a[33m⏏[31m=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $[0m␤Malformed my at /tmp/XsvUGQwG56 line 1:␤------> [32m@a=<5 4 2>; my [33m⏏[31m:($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say
06:27 p6eval ..$f.perl[0m␤    e…
06:27 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "=<"␤    expecting "::"␤    Variable "@a" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤    at /tmp/IDRSHCdlv9 line 1, column 3␤»
06:27 p6eval ..rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 22, near ":($f, *@r)"␤»
06:29 redicaps rakudo: my @a=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:29 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 22, near ":($f, *@r)"␤»
06:30 redicaps Hi perl6er, this code is taken from the latest Using-Perl-6 book, which breaks in rakudo
06:31 TimToady std: @a=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/nnBPgAkd94 line 1:␤------> [32m@a[33m⏏[31m=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $[0m␤Malformed my at /tmp/nnBPgAkd94 line 1:␤------> [32m@a=<5 4 2>; my [33m⏏[31m:($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl[0m␤
06:31 p6eval .. e…
06:31 TimToady std: @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/VQaVb3rOo5 line 1:␤------> [32m@a[33m⏏[31m=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f[0m␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/VQaVb3rOo5 line 1:␤------> [32m@a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a[33m⏏[31m);
06:31 p6eval ..say …
06:31 TimToady std: @a=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@r); say $f.perl
06:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/N0ZdbYj7Zz line 1:␤------> [32m@a[33m⏏[31m=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@r); say $[0m␤Malformed my at /tmp/N0ZdbYj7Zz line 1:␤------> [32m@a=<5 4 2>; my [33m⏏[31m:($f, *@r) := \(|@r); say $f.perl[0m␤
06:31 p6eval .. e…
06:31 TimToady std: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
06:32 TimToady perl6: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:32 p6eval niecza v1-111-g2e66cf1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Action method capture not yet implemented at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Actions.pm line 55.␤Action method capterm not yet implemented at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Actions.pm line 55.␤invalid undef here at
06:32 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Action…
06:32 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Wrong number of binding parameters: 1 actual, 2 expected␤    at /tmp/P6KzQBqqoh line 1, column 16-38␤»
06:32 p6eval ..rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\(\("5", "4", "2"))␤»
06:32 TimToady perl6: my @a=<5 4 2>; my :($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:32 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Wrong number of binding parameters: 1 actual, 2 expected␤    at /tmp/RGC4v1i77i line 1, column 16-39␤»
06:32 p6eval ..rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 22, near ":($f, *@r)"␤»
06:32 p6eval ..niecza v1-111-g2e66cf1: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed my at /tmp/tXxmjpsgVT line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a=<5 4 2>; my [33m⏏[31m:($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl[0m␤    expecting scoped declarator␤Parse failed␤»
06:33 redicaps rakudo: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := \(|@a); say $f.perl
06:33 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\(\("5", "4", "2"))␤»
06:33 TimToady perl6: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |@a; say $f.perl
06:33 p6eval niecza v1-111-g2e66cf1: OUTPUT«Illegal use of Op::SimpleParcel in bvalue context at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Op.pm line 40␤      Op::code_bvalue('Op::SimpleParcel=HASH(0x79ce5e0)', 'Metamodel::StaticSub=HASH(0x7944a98)', 0, 'CgOpNode=ARRAY(0x7c829c0)') called at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Op.pm line
06:33 p6eval ..714␤   Op::Bind::code('…
06:33 p6eval ..rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:33 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Wrong number of binding parameters: 1 actual, 2 expected␤    at /tmp/GOPC0Z8i3t line 1, column 16-35␤»
06:34 TimToady looks like rakudo has it right
06:34 TimToady you don't need the double capture
06:35 redicaps What the code want in  the book is to put first element in @a to $first, and others to @rest, but what we get here in $first is a capture
06:35 TimToady because of the extra \
06:35 TimToady use what I wrote last
06:36 TimToady the book is wrong there
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06:38 redicaps rakudo: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := @a; say $f.perl
06:38 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«["5", "4", "2"]␤»
06:39 TimToady you need the | to insert @a as more than one arg
06:39 redicaps rakudo: my @a=<5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |@a; say $f.perl
06:39 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:39 redicaps but the out put is still a list here?
06:40 redicaps I am expecting just a 5
06:40 TimToady hmm
06:41 TimToady perl6: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) = |@a; say $f.perl
06:41 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:41 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«\"5"␤»
06:41 p6eval ..niecza v1-111-g2e66cf1: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical &prefix:<|> in mainline␤  at Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.ResolveLex (System.String name, System.Int32& uplevel, Boolean core) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
06:41 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.RawAccessLex (Syste…
06:42 TimToady pugs: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |@a; say $f.perl
06:42 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Wrong number of binding parameters: 1 actual, 2 expected␤    at /tmp/lhmnyUXyh_ line 1, column 18-37␤»
06:42 TimToady pugs: my @a = <5 4 2>; say @a.elems
06:42 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«3␤»
06:42 TimToady strange
06:43 sorear I guess pugs is interpreting the RHS as an expression, not an argument list
06:43 redicaps TimToady:  what should be the right syntax here?
06:43 TimToady dunno
06:44 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |@a; say $f.perl
06:44 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:44 dalek niecza: b56c97d | sorear++ | / (2 files):
06:44 dalek niecza: [v6] Fill in path-manip methods
06:44 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b56c97da79
06:44 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := (|@a); say $f.perl
06:44 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:46 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) ::= (|@a); say $f.perl
06:46 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Any␤»
06:47 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my $f; my @r; :($f, *@r) := |@a; say $f.perl
06:47 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Any␤»
06:48 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |(|@a); say $f.perl
06:49 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
06:49 TimToady bizarre
06:49 TimToady rakudo: my @a = <5 4 2>; my ($f, *@r) := |@a.list; say $f.perl
06:49 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«\("5", "4", "2")␤»
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07:17 sorear makes total sense to *me*
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07:31 prabuinet i'm getting error when running rakudo on windows , "could not load oplib `perl6_ops`" ,
07:31 prabuinet anybody have a solution?
07:37 prabuinet hi
07:47 sorear that's usually caused by incorrect installation
07:48 sorear hi
07:48 sorear and welcome to #perl6
07:48 prabuinet sorear, what to do?
07:48 sorear prabuinet: read the documentation carefully, see what you did wrong
07:48 sorear not knowing what exactly you did, I can't guess myself
07:49 prabuinet sorear, i just installed the msi
07:49 sorear ok, that's out of my domain
07:49 sorear which msi?
07:50 prabuinet from sourceforge
07:50 sorear which msi from sourceforge?
07:50 prabuinet first this : http://sourceforge.net/projects/parrotwin32/files/parrotwin32%20setup/Parrot-2.11.0/setup-parrot-2.11.0.exe/download
07:51 sorear I don't know what it is about newbies always coming in the 4-hour window when both sides of the Atlantic are asleep
07:51 prabuinet and next : http://sourceforge.net/projects/parrotwin32/files/parrot-rakudo%20addon/
07:51 prabuinet hmm..
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08:45 coldhead any advice on getting my IP unbanned from rakudo.org ?
08:47 lopnor i'm banned too.
08:48 lopnor i don't do any spamming on rakudo.org :)
08:48 coldhead that'll teach us not to do whatever we did
08:48 lopnor stop developing on perl6?
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08:55 lopnor noway?
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08:56 sorear coldhead: email the webmaster
08:56 coldhead email? what is this, the 80s?
08:56 sorear lopnor: email the webmaster
08:56 coldhead i will, thanks
08:57 lopnor do you know the address?
08:57 sorear you're looking for Andy Lester
08:57 sorear he drops by here very infrequently
08:58 sorear can either of you access betterthangrep.com?
08:59 coldhead andy splat rakudo.org
08:59 coldhead yeah i get that domain fine
08:59 cotto jnthn, it's good to finally see another blog post
08:59 sorear Let us all shame lopnor, who is pming me when it's quite obvious that coldhead needs the same answers
09:00 sorear lopnor either wants to force me to reply twice, or does not care
09:00 lopnor sorry,
09:01 lopnor sorear: i apologize to you about my bad mannar.
09:02 lopnor it was so serious thing to unban me from rakudo.org.
09:03 coldhead everything is going to be okay, lopnor
09:03 lopnor coldhead: thank you, and i'm sorry about it.
09:05 sorear lopnor: can you explain exactly in what way you are "banned"? I'm curious
09:06 coldhead oh good, the email address listed on the site doesn't receive mail
09:06 sorear complaining about rakudo.org's lack of stability is a popular sport here.  We don't have a lot of control over its administration
09:07 lopnor i'm seeing http://gyazo.com/79074ddeb143fd7234bc5d5f9cd8bd3c.png
09:07 lopnor a screen capture.
09:07 sorear andy splat petdance.com doesn't get mail?
09:08 coldhead i'll try that
09:13 lopnor sorear: sent email to andy. thank you.
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09:26 teee sometimes i'd been banned when surffing in the cybercafe...
09:26 teee maybe use webproxy?
09:27 lopnor teee: i'm currently using no proxy.
09:32 teee i meant,connecting by a proxy,and maybe it might been saw?
09:34 lopnor ah, i see.
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09:52 moritz_ good morning zebras
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10:00 tadzik morning moritz
10:00 sorear hi moritz_
10:00 diakopter hi
10:05 moritz_ rakudo: my $a = *; $a = "foo"; say $a
10:05 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Whatever()<0x9d98628>␤»
10:06 moritz_ (known bug, just curious if it still persists)
10:06 moritz_ rakudo: my $a = *; $a := "foo"; say $a
10:06 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
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10:10 Su-Shee good morning everyone. :)
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10:17 lopnor is now known as lopaway
10:17 moritz_ Su-Shee++ # two nice blog posts on perl perception
10:18 Su-Shee thanks. :)
10:19 tadzik Su-Shee: o/
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10:31 coldhead this suddenly you're hip article is fascinating, thanks for pointing it out
10:32 Su-Shee you now move to vim? ;)
10:32 coldhead haha, no i feel smug about already using vim
10:33 Su-Shee *hihi* :)
10:35 Su-Shee though I've just realized another thing: a catalyst developer commented that he actually made a screencast and got no feedback about it. I think it's also important to actually promote and present each other to spread perl in general. and I also like to get back all the developers who deep down in their hearts never really left Perl and still have an eye on Perl 6 for example.
10:35 Su-Shee (which btw was nicely present during december on hackernews and reddit thanks to the controversies about some advent calendar articles :)
10:36 moritz_ Su-Shee: to be fair, the title of the screencast wasn't very appealing
10:36 moritz_ Su-Shee: but I agree that we should promote perl stuff
10:36 Su-Shee yeah I think we have to cut it some slack as long as the _content_ is good/well done/useful
10:37 Su-Shee I still have serious problems to even wrap my head around screencasts which aren't about "how to click this ultra complex move in blender"..
10:38 Su-Shee but well.. I just have to sell it - not buy it. ;)
10:40 * moritz_ doesn't "get" screencasts either
10:41 Su-Shee I also don't get "funny" documentation, cute pictures in it and the like.. I'm a boring "Oh, I liked Stevens very much" all the way..
10:42 moritz_ Su-Shee: did you like "Programming Perl"?
10:42 Su-Shee yes. because it's the _right_ amount of dense, precise information and a joke here and there.
10:42 moritz_ I liked it very much, because the fun was related to the topic, and it didn't sacrificy usefulness to the fun
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10:43 Su-Shee exactly.
10:43 Su-Shee even stevens has a mild acadamic chuckle here and there.
10:44 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 1 // *; say $x.perl
10:44 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤»
10:44 Su-Shee moritz_: I take boredom over fun every time for depths and breadth of information.
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10:47 moritz_ rakudo: enum A <b c d e>; .say for A.pick(3)
10:47 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«d 2␤b     0␤c     1␤»
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11:06 dalek roast: d5e42b6 | moritz++ | S32-list/pick.t:
11:06 dalek roast: tests for RT #76238, Bool.pick (and SomeEnum.pick)
11:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d5e42b65e0
11:08 Su-Shee *lol* ruby blog quotes matz: "But when we relase Ruby 2.0 is not decided. I think it takes several years" comment: Yes, several years. Ruby 2.0 is our Perl 6. so I'd say that's a shiny quote. "If ruby 2 can take several years, we can too."
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11:11 moritz_ just imagine how long we'll have to wait for Ruby 6 :-)
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11:11 jnthn o/, #perl6
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11:14 Su-Shee moritz_: I'd say the new quote is": "Perl 6 is our Ruby 2.0" ;)
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11:29 masak oh hai #perl6 \o/
11:35 jnthn yayitsmasak!
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11:39 * masak is in a Perl hacking mood today o/
11:41 jnthn \o/
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12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 940a00d | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/rakudoobject. (2 files):
12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Bring over the latest S-Table bits. This stubs in some bits for method cache and type check support.
12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/940a00d0ef
12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 5b23dc9 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: type_check op and initial port of the type checking logic.
12:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5b23dc93d8
12:31 masak does cpanm have an IRC channel?
12:33 moritz_ did you try #cpanm or #cpanminus on irc.perl.org?
12:34 moritz_ if not, probably #toolchain (though I don't know if the author hangs out there)
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12:36 Fredrek__J helo ppl, What does the exclamation mark (!) in "has Task @!dependencies;" in a class definition mean? is it for negation, also in "push @!dependencies, $dependency;"
12:37 moritz_ it's a private attribute
12:37 moritz_ it's a "twigil", ie a second sigil
12:38 Fredrek__J moritz_: So what's the difference between push @!dependencies and push @dependencies?
12:39 jnthn The first will access an attribute of the current class, the second refers to just a normal variable.
12:40 jnthn Generally, the twigil tells you something about the scope of the variable.
12:40 tadzik is self.@attributes also possible?
12:40 jnthn No
12:41 tadzik that's for methods only?
12:41 moritz_ tadzik: right
12:41 jnthn tadzik: Yes
12:41 jnthn has @.attributes; will give you an @!attributes attribute and also a method you could call as self.attributes
12:42 tadzik hmm. Can I visit #phasers on tuesday to talk about the module ecosystem progress?
12:42 moritz_ sure
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12:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 5cefcab | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
12:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Untested port of the type check and method cache publication ops.
12:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5cefcab0c1
12:52 masak moritz_: yes, I tried both those.
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13:09 pmurias how should the test suit for fledgling perl 6 implementations be called?
13:09 lichtkind rakudo: my @a = 1..5; @a.shift(2); say @a;
13:09 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤  in 'List::shift' at line 2841:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/D1z1x4LhRo␤»
13:10 lichtkind why not gife shift a second optional parameter?
13:10 masak pmurias: sanity tests?
13:10 masak lichtkind: because .splice already does that?
13:11 lichtkind masak: with that argument we need no shift at all
13:11 masak lichtkind: because it's more pure from a model perspective to have one operation that returns an item at all times?
13:11 pmurias masak: sanity tests already exists
13:11 pmurias masak: and they are a bit adhoc
13:11 lichtkind masak: i think perl is not about  purity :)
13:12 masak pmurias: common-sense, then? :)
13:12 moritz_ lichtkind: because there are enough primitives to easily do it, and it's not even used often enough to warrant such a non-orthongonal functionality
13:12 lichtkind you can also push severel items at once in a array
13:12 lichtkind why not pop it too
13:12 masak lichtkind: Perl is not about ignoring purity either :)
13:12 lichtkind sounde more orthogonal to me
13:12 masak not to me.
13:12 moritz_ lichtkind: I guess you're the only one :-)
13:13 pmurias masak: maybe baby-roast? ;)
13:13 masak pmurias: that's a horrible name! o.O
13:13 * lichtkind still thinks its a good idea
13:13 masak lichtkind: then I suggest you define a multi in your local scope.
13:14 masak lichtkind: or, if you're ambitious, create a module which exports such a multi.
13:14 lichtkind masak: you mean in rakudo?
13:14 masak no, I mean in your scripts and in the ecosystem, respectively.
13:14 lichtkind masak: i thought more of an optional parameter that defaults to 1
13:15 lichtkind for you all nothing would change
13:15 masak lichtkind: you still don't get it, methinks.
13:15 masak lichtkind: of course a change in the semantics of &shift will have an effect on me down the line.
13:15 masak these changes are not to be made willy-nilly.
13:15 moritz_ you can combine ranges with subscripting
13:16 lichtkind of course thats why i post it
13:16 moritz_ @array[^2]:delete
13:16 masak moritz_++
13:16 moritz_ is what you propose as @array.shift(2)
13:16 snarkyboojum it's been discussed before - http://dev.perl.org/perl6/rfc/56.html
13:16 masak ooh
13:16 moritz_ so, you can combine :delete and ranges to get to it
13:16 lichtkind moritz_: do i get the deleted items as a return?
13:16 masak is it in any of the apocalypses, too?
13:17 masak lichtkind: yes.
13:17 moritz_ which is why it's not orthongonal
13:17 masak does :exist also take a range?
13:18 moritz_ doesn't make sense to me
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 997e41c | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Merge remote branch 'origin/nomnom' into nom
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/997e41c1fa
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: f82129f | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add all attributes from PCT::HLLCompiler and also some commentary about the transition.
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f82129ff09
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 239cac7 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
13:18 moritz_ [any 1..3]:exists
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Bring over initialization bits that used to be in PCT::HLLCompiler, plus some refactoring so we don't try and set attributes on a type object.
13:18 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/239cac7b9a
13:18 * masak can see a case for disallowing that, and requiring explicit all() or any() junctions instead
13:18 moritz_ would make sense to me
13:18 moritz_ or all()
13:18 masak right.
13:18 masak moritz_: let's spec that :P
13:18 jnthn colomon: Thanks for the work in the nomnom branch, just merged it into nom and continuing work on it there.
13:19 moritz_ masak: can you pleae do it? I've got some work here left...
13:19 masak moritz_: sure thing :)
13:19 moritz_ rakudo: say Date.new('2011-01-19') - Date.today # number of days until birth of $daughter
13:20 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«10␤»
13:20 tadzik \o/
13:20 tadzik moritz_++
13:20 tadzik oh rather: Baby.new but moritz_
13:21 masak heh
13:21 pmurias lichtkind: adding stuff that is not used often and can be accomplished by a different subroutine/method will only bloat the language
13:21 moritz_ it's more like  class Ronja is Signe is Moritz { ... }
13:21 moritz_ I guess she'll augment herself many times while growing up
13:21 masak Ronja is a nice name.
13:21 moritz_ thanks :-)
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13:22 masak moritz_: guess you're familiar with the Astrid Lindgren connection.
13:22 moritz_ masak: sure
13:22 masak oh phew :)
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13:23 pmurias masak: i'll call the tests simple-tests
13:23 moritz_ Astrid Lindgren and James Krüss were my favorite authors as a child
13:24 moritz_ pmurias: what about "cook"? it's one step less extreme than "roast" :-)
13:24 pmurias seems a bit rubyish
13:24 masak "simmer"
13:24 Su-Shee Kalle Blomquist!
13:24 snarkyboojum "steam"
13:24 masak "fry"
13:25 pmurias "warm up"
13:25 masak "pre-heat"
13:25 snarkyboojum "nuke"
13:25 snarkyboojum lol - maybe not
13:25 masak snarkyboojum: I think we need to go over the rules. :)
13:25 snarkyboojum I was thinking "microwave" vs "annihilate" :)
13:26 tadzik closi
13:26 pmurias https://github.com/pmurias/simple-tests
13:30 tadzik pmurias: https://github.com/pmurias/simple-tests/blob/master/say-many.t -- shouldn't that be "o","k"," 1" or something?
13:32 pmurias tadzik: " 1" is optional
13:32 tadzik I see
13:33 pmurias how can i give  commit rights to simple-tests to everyone in the perl6 group?
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13:52 moritz_ pmurias: the easiest way is that I fork it into the perl6 organization, and assign the 'perl6' group to it
13:52 moritz_ pmurias: I don't think you can give permissions to teams from foreign organizations on github
13:54 moritz_ pmurias: https://github.com/perl6/simple-tests with same permissions as roast, mu etc.
13:55 colomon jnthn: sorry I didn't really do anything useful there!  Is there any LHF fruit in the new nom branch I could tackle?
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14:12 masak hah! interesting! the spec as it stands currently is contradictory wrt what :exists on a many-item slice does. S02:2142 says it has all() semantics, but S03:3595 says it has any() semantics. :)
14:12 masak best argument I've seen yet for outlawing it and requiring explicitness. :)
14:12 * masak makes it so
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14:13 dalek nqp-rx/nom: a511a30 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
14:13 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Bring enough of PCT::HLLCompiler into HLL::Compiler that we can now run and get a prompt. Doesn't yet compile anything, but a step closer. Note that mostly this just wraps PIR bodies into an NQP wrapper; some would be very LHF to translate to NQP fully.
14:13 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a511a302cb
14:13 jnthn colomon: LHF ^^ :)
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14:18 masak hm, belay that. it's not as inconsistent as I thought.
14:19 masak S03 uses an explicit any() to get any() semantics. the array form usually has all() semantics.
14:19 masak so it's not an argument for outlawing it and requiring explicitness.
14:20 masak but I still think there's a reason to do so.
14:21 masak however, S03:3758 could be seen as corroborating the need for explicit marking.
14:25 masak reading the paragraphs surrounding S02:2415, the :exists form does stick out as being the only adverb that *doesn't* ignore non-existent indices. the "Likewise," on S02:2417 is even a bit of a non sequitur because of this.
14:26 colomon jnthn++
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14:40 dalek specs: 3018ff2 | masak++ | S (3 files):
14:40 dalek specs: [S02] outlawed :exists on a list slice
14:40 dalek specs:
14:40 dalek specs: People seem to have different expectations on whether the
14:40 dalek specs: desugaring should be any(@slice) or all(@slice), so we
14:40 dalek specs: require making it explicit. This also makes the code more
14:40 dalek specs: readable and self-documenting.
14:40 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/3018ff242a
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14:54 jnthn colomon: Whee. I seem to have a working HLL::Compiler that doesn't depend on PCT::HLLCompiler.
14:55 masak \o/
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14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: dafce7f | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Port dumper from PCT::HLLCompiler to HLL::Compiler, translating to NQP along the way.
14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/dafce7fa19
14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 492aa92 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix various thinkos, and remove the parse method grabbed from PCT::HLLCompiler, since it's overridden in the hll-compiler cheats anyway. This gets us through the build again, without depending on PCT::HLLCompiler.
14:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/492aa929a6
15:01 dalek specs: e04fd48 | masak++ | S02-bits.pod:
15:01 dalek specs: [S02] added non-junction :exists example
15:01 dalek specs:
15:01 dalek specs: Also un-forgot bumping the version.
15:01 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/e04fd48df4
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15:05 Kodi rakudo: eval "1" for 1, 2, 3;
15:05 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Null PMC in copy␤  in 'eval' at line 1185:CORE.setting␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/wZPKazlzXP␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
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15:05 Kodi O.o
15:05 arnsholt Fun =)
15:06 lopnor is now known as lopaway
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15:06 arnsholt jnthn: What's the nom branch for, incidentally?
15:06 arnsholt The name is a bit opaque to me =)
15:06 Kodi RT #77646, looks like.
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15:08 tadzik arnsholt: new object model, iirc
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15:09 arnsholt Ah, that makes sense =)
15:09 tadzik NOM NOM NOM
15:15 jnthn arnsholt: yup, new object model :)
15:15 jnthn arnsholt: Getting nqp-rx using 6model, basically
15:19 tadzik but isn't 6model in .NET?
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15:23 jnthn tadzik: 6model is a meta-model design. There's a .Net implementation of it, a Parrot implementation of it and a JVM implementation of it, all in various stages of completeness.
15:24 tadzik oh, I see
15:24 tadzik so you were just starting the implementation from .NET for easier profiling and stuff?
15:24 tadzik and to have Rakudo target .NET one day, of course
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 4c967a1 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Bring in the remaining missing methods from PCT::HLLCompiler.
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/4c967a14ad
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 7e9d75b | jonathan++ | t/hll/0 (4 files):
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: A bunch of tests also relied on the ability to set attributes in a type object. D'oh. Corrected.
15:26 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7e9d75b634
15:26 jnthn tadzik: Yes, those reasons and more.
15:27 jnthn tadzik: I worried that if I started out in Parrot I'd maybe be too weighed down with the way Parrot is rather than being able to focus on what I wanted things to look like.
15:29 tadzik that's a twisted sentence :) But I think I get it
15:31 * jnthn wonders how on earth regex interpolation has got broken during the elimination of PCT::HLLCompiler.
15:34 jnthn oh, more of the type object attribute brain damage...
15:34 tadzik oh, parrot-nqp fails when I run it in nqp-rx/nom directory
15:35 jnthn hm
15:35 jnthn Who knows what versions of things it's finding :)
15:35 jnthn The nqp executable in there works for me, however.
15:37 dalek nqp-rx/nom: ca87742 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/P6Regex.pir:
15:37 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix another case where the type object rather than an instance was being used and needing to store attributes. This gets the regex interpolation tests to run again, and things back to where they were before eliminating PCT::HLLCompiler.
15:37 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/ca877420c5
15:42 colomon jnthn: \o/
15:43 colomon sorry to be in-and-out this morning, we had a houseguest.
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15:44 jnthn colomon: No worries. :)
15:45 colomon sounds like you've made a lot of progress!  (Haven't read the blog post yet.)
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15:47 jnthn colomon: Blog post was mostly "oh hai I'm back" :)
15:49 colomon Looks like a long list of recent accomplishments and future plans.  jnthn++
15:50 jnthn colomon: Are you planning to work on nom "right now"?
15:50 jnthn If so, just want to make sure we don't conflict... :)
15:51 colomon I would love to pitch in and help, but unless you urgently need help, probably finishing my submissions to masak++'s contest and cleaning up my modules to conform to the new standards is a higher priority.
15:51 jnthn colomon: That's fine :)
15:52 jnthn There are a couple of places in Compiler.pm that I want to change right now, that's all :)
15:52 colomon go for it!
15:53 colomon I'll focus on more cases for p4, and maybe dealing with that poopy diaper I'm smelling.  :)
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16:10 colomon diaper dealt with!  ;)
16:10 masak \o/
16:11 masak "I repeat: the diaper situation is contained."
16:11 colomon it's extra tricky when you cannot pick up the child.  stupid surgery recovery weight restrictions.
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16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 3a05d0d | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add a class_6m package declarator so classes built using 6model can be tried out without introducing it everywhere just yet.
16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3a05d0dc15
16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 2ac9555 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Turn proccess_args into NQP.
16:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2ac955592a
16:16 jnthn OK, The Plan is to gradually work towards every class being a class_6m. :)
16:24 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 25b6884 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
16:24 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix compilation of inheritance. Seems to work just fine for class_6m-s now.
16:24 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/25b688447f
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17:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 0dbc62c | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
17:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Replace an (ab)use of .WHAT with smartmatching in the Actions.
17:14 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0dbc62c14b
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17:16 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 6993926 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (3 files):
17:16 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Update bootstrap to complete the elimination of PCT::HLLCompiler and to enable use of class_6m in NQP itself.
17:16 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/699392652f
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17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 8c92b8f | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: find_method should return null if there's no method available, not throw an exception.
17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/8c92b8fbcf
17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: c30d699 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Switch all of the Actions classes to use 6model rather than Parrot's OO (that's HLL::Actions, NQP::Actions, Regex::P6Regex::Actions and NQP::RegexActions). Seems to work out just fine, though it's an easy case: no instantiation, just method calls and single inheritance. But nice it works already!
17:57 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c30d699ab1
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18:08 Layla_91 Hello, I hope you are all having good time here :D I am here with small question :D
18:09 tadzik hello again Layla_91
18:09 Layla_91 tadzik: hi! :D
18:10 Layla_91 I was reading learning perl pdf, at page 50 I read that type objects are undefined (which means they return false if you call the .defined method on them). then there is this example: my $obj=Int; If $obj.defined {say "type object";} else { say "defined object";} when I read it I got the impression that type objects are defined.. :S Any clarification please :)
18:11 tadzik rakudo: my $obj=Int; If $obj.defined {say "type object";} else { say "defined object";}
18:11 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "If $obj.de"␤»
18:11 tadzik rakudo: my $obj=Int; if $obj.defined {say "type object";} else { say "defined object";}
18:11 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«defined object␤»
18:11 tadzik erm
18:11 Layla_91 tadzik: Aha?
18:11 tadzik Aha
18:12 jnthn I think those two branches are in the wrong order...
18:12 tadzik Also, I have no idea :) Whether it's a bug in the book, spec or rakudo
18:12 tadzik oh, right
18:12 jnthn rakudo: my $x = Int; say $x.defined
18:12 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
18:12 tadzik pff
18:12 jnthn That is the correct answer
18:12 * tadzik fixing the example
18:12 jnthn So I think error in the book
18:12 jnthn tadzik: You got book commit bit? :)
18:12 jnthn OK, cool. :)
18:13 Layla_91 So type objects should be undefined and that is just mistake in the book right?
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18:14 tadzik jnthn: I happen to, yes :)
18:14 tadzik Layla_91: ywis
18:14 dalek book: e49d34a | tadzik++ | src/classes-and-objects.pod:
18:14 dalek book: Fixed the Type.defined example in src/classes-and-objects.pod, Layla_91++
18:14 dalek book: review: https://github.com/perl6/book/commit/e49d34a462
18:14 tadzik Layla_91: thanks for pointing this out
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18:15 Layla_91 tadzik: ok now I will continue reading thank you tadzik I will be back :)))
18:15 tadzik I hope so :)
18:15 tadzik come back with more bugs :)
18:16 tadzik hmm, I remember having a few ideas about a new book chapters
18:17 Layla_91 tadzik: hihi... I hope there is no more bugs :) the tutorial is really sweet I enjoy reading it :)) and its free!
18:20 Layla_91 left #perl6
18:21 tadzik got it: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2010-12-28#i_3126730
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18:41 sorear good * #perl6
18:48 Su-Shee two days wasted on a simple blog posting.. I think the Perl cliche will resist until 2023.
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19:03 masak Su-Shee++ # "wasting" two days on blog posting
19:04 Su-Shee masak: well this day got wasted by defending it on hackernews..
19:04 Su-Shee I'm _so_ tired of this stupid perl write once cliche..
19:05 lue hello! o/
19:06 lue Su-Shee: what Perl cliche?
19:06 colomon That perl is a "write only" language.
19:06 Su-Shee that perl is a write once language and you can't do anything powerful in it or a large projects jadajadajda
19:06 Su-Shee (and I don't mean the operator ;)
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19:07 tadzik Su-Shee: mind linking the discussion?
19:07 colomon People have a lot of daft opinions.
19:07 Su-Shee tadzik: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2085276
19:07 Kodi . o O ( Jada, Perl 6 on the JVM )
19:07 colomon Or perhaps, a lot of people have daft opinions
19:07 Su-Shee Kodi: *hihi* :)
19:07 masak Su-Shee: I'm tired of it too.
19:08 tadzik I recently had a similar conversation with a buddy: „Hey watcha doing?” – „Mangling the module infrastructure for Perl 6” – „LOL Perl. There is Python now, you know”
19:08 Su-Shee masak: also I'm an idiot because I've tried to argue with people who - no matter what you say - will never look into something else but their ruby or python.
19:08 lue I predict... the cliche will die in 2038, when it single-handedly helps old computer deal with a timekeeping problem...
19:09 lue computer*s
19:09 Su-Shee tadzik: I usally say "come back when you've got a 850000 line project in <language x> which runs for 12 years straight. ;)
19:09 Su-Shee lue: *haha* I was thinking about that :)
19:09 masak Su-Shee: I sense your frustration is of exactly the same kind as when I tried to approach the Perl 5 community in November 2009.
19:09 masak Su-Shee: it was... interestingly excruciating.
19:09 plobsing funny. write once is considered a feature in java but a bug in perl
19:10 Su-Shee masak: luckily, even those hard nosed bitches changed their opinion. they got soft in terms of perl 6. ;)
19:10 masak plobsing: that's two homonyms, though.
19:10 sbp masak: what do you think the root of that experience was?
19:10 lue [ Python sucks if you want to program an NES emulator :) ]
19:10 sbp you'd use luæ for that?
19:10 masak plobsing: Java's is "you can run it anywhere you please", Perl's is "you can't read it once you've written it"
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19:11 plobsing perl runs in many places too
19:11 masak sbp: I don't exactly know what you're asking for. I later adopted a personal theory of "weaving stories" to explain both sides to myself.
19:11 onwijzehenk joined #perl6
19:11 lue I always take the "looks the same before and after encryption" joke as a compliment. That's a very difficult thing to do.
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19:12 sbp masak: specifically why you think the situation, the reception you got from the perl5 crowd, was so. would also be interested to hear the stories, links to existing writeups etc.
19:12 masak sbp: http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/how-perl-6-could-kill-us-all
19:12 Su-Shee well I've learned in my job that ugly written usally isn't really a problem - but really bad architecture for example is. not even a weird API is as bad.
19:12 sbp thanks very much!
19:13 Su-Shee masak: ah that posting. I remember. those times are over.
19:13 Layla_91 tadzik: how can I register my nickname here?... (I forgot that command :(  ) sorry I know it is a non perl6 question..
19:14 Su-Shee Layla_91: you have to register it with freenode.
19:14 tadzik Layla_91: msg nickserv help register, I think
19:14 jnthn Su-Shee: Oh, snap. Just about all the clients I have who have problems have them as a result of crappy architecture, not individual bits of code being unreadable.
19:14 masak Su-Shee: yes, those times are mostly over.
19:14 tadzik bah, diem perdidi :( Being sick is not nice
19:15 tadzik . o O (where is that picture of mine)
19:16 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/pqT11.png
19:16 tadzik ha-ha :)
19:16 onwijzehenk left #perl6
19:16 Su-Shee jnthn: I've actually wrote a couple of experiments to make sure that I don't confuse shitty architecture with a weird API - but even a weird API is just that.. weird..
19:16 masak sbp: in summary: the Perl 6 community was behaving like a little mosquito saying "we're the only rightful heirs of Perl", and many Perl 5 community members were instinctively rejecting that picture. it was, in many senses, a collision course. one which wouldn't have led to anything good.
19:18 lue I think all problems people still have with Perl 6 can be solved by renaming it, because the 6 is what gets them started. Problems: a renaming will never happen :)
19:18 sbp “Perl 5 replaced Perl 4, which replaced Perl 3, etc. Perl 6 lambdacamels don't think much about this, but Perl 5 folks fielding questions from outsiders about Perl 6 sure do.” — chuckle
19:18 Kodi I'm pro-renaming, too.
19:19 Su-Shee lue: not necessary anymore.
19:19 sbp Perl Star
19:19 Kodi Perlambda.
19:19 Su-Shee and as this _great_ code example of COBOL versus Cobol90 showed: we don't have to worry about that anymore.. :)
19:19 sorear rakudo: say time.WHAT
19:19 p6eval rakudo e7e9d5: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
19:19 sbp Perl Star would suck up all the remaining numbers :-)
19:20 masak sbp: the cold war erupted due to just such a meeting. a certain emma first visited #perl (on irc.perl.org) and then #perl6.
19:20 sbp yeah, I saw the mention of the name in that piece
19:20 masak I'm firmly anti-renaming, for practical reasons.
19:21 Su-Shee I'm against renaming as well unless you call it "pinkdaisy the butterfly language"
19:21 Kodi Well, yeah, it's probably too late at this point, well after the initial release of Rakudo *.
19:21 colomon On the other hand, it might be a quick way to sidestep the existing anti-Perl bias.  :)
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19:21 tadzik I won't be so sure
19:21 Su-Shee colomon: the bias isn't really about 5 & 6 anymore - it's about write-once cliches (5) and the duke nukem meme (6)
19:21 sbp I don't support renaming either because I believe in the Perl 6 story
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19:22 masak I "believe" in both the Perl 5 and the Perl 6 stories.
19:22 * moritz_ doesn't see any point in discussing renaming unless we have a good name to rename to
19:22 masak and I believe that having both stories is ultimately a good thing.
19:22 tadzik when I was giving a Parrot talk on a local LUG some time ago, before I even started people started joking "oh, the Perl is readable now or something?"
19:22 Su-Shee yeah, everyone does.
19:23 * sbp looks at mst's post too
19:23 * masak doesn't see any point in discussing renaming to anything unless renaming is an option :)
19:23 BinGOs "Ignorance, you don't know the meaning of the word"
19:23 Su-Shee moritz_: you don't like "pinkdaisy the butterfly language"?
19:23 colomon Su-Shee: right.  But if Perl 6 suddenly became Sapphire, then both biases would "no longer apply".  ;)
19:23 * colomon might be playing Devil's Advocate.
19:24 masak Perl 6 isn't Sapphire. Perl 6 is Perl.
19:24 colomon Yes, but we don't need to tell other people that.
19:24 Kodi We could change Perl 6's name to Camelia. Not the word "Camelia", but the image itself. Then everybody would have to call it The Language Formerly Known as Perl 6.
19:24 Su-Shee tadzik: If I would be younger and not already having experienced Perl and be very put off by DHH, I probably would have gone down the Ruby path as well.
19:24 moritz_ Su-Shee: too long
19:24 sbp »ö«
19:24 Su-Shee moritz_: meh. ;)
19:25 tadzik Su-Shee: "as well"?
19:25 * BinGOs will just continue to quote the Python Whitespace Fascism Meme instead.
19:25 Su-Shee tadzik: as many people I know who started with Perl in the 90ies
19:25 lue Here are some pretty pictures that detail (in a very general way) how Perl 6 is percieved today (at least in P6-land): https://rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/the-view-of-perl6-and-cleaning-the-specs/
19:25 tadzik I have a feeling Ruby community is full of people who couldn't wait for Perl 6
19:25 sbp if Perl 6 is a little sister, I'd say it's the quiet little sister who stays in and studies hard
19:25 * colomon wrote his first Perl code in 1994 or 1995.
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19:26 Su-Shee tadzik: oh wow you really must know very different people than I do.. :)
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19:26 tadzik Su-Shee: I mainly know angry Pythoners
19:26 Su-Shee colomon: without Perl, I wouldn't have had a career as a developer and open source activist and by the way of that as a journalist.. :)
19:27 tadzik in fact, the thing that turns me off Python is the hate-oriented community. The friendliest Pyhoners I know are Perlists
19:27 Su-Shee tadzik: oh wait I have to paste you the right cartoon for that.. :)
19:27 masak tadzik: ah, you meant "were to impatient to wait for Perl 6", not "were eager to get their hands on Perl 6"... :)
19:28 Su-Shee tadzik: http://sedition.com/a/3054
19:28 tadzik Su-Shee: yeah, seen that :)
19:28 tadzik masak: ywis
19:29 * Su-Shee has done some python.
19:30 lue tadzik: I liked python (version 3). I needed binding, but I could live without it. When I needed given/when statements, I gave up and joined Perl 6 :)
19:31 sbp tadzik: I'm a Python programmer, but I don't program Perl 5
19:31 Kodi Hm, I actually find that a proper block-scoped "my" is what I miss most while writing Python.
19:32 tadzik sbp: maybe I just stumbled on the wrong people, idk. But again, looking at reddit/hn... eh
19:32 Su-Shee I don't miss anything in either one - I'm only in a language for the fun and the community and the environment. :)
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19:33 dalek roast: 6f4dfd4 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S02-literals/pairs.t:
19:33 dalek roast: [pairs.t] Added tests for RT #74948.
19:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6f4dfd4c56
19:33 dalek roast: 5e42fea | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S02-names_and_variables/names.t:
19:33 dalek roast: [names.t] Added tests for RT #72438.
19:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5e42fea45b
19:33 dalek roast: 6bc4635 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S04-statements/for.t:
19:33 dalek roast: [for.t] Untodoed a passing test.
19:33 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6bc4635abd
19:35 sbp I haven't done as much with Perl 6 as I've intended so far, but when I do one of the things that I'm looking forward to writing about is the point of view of learning 6 without knowing much at all, and having no intention to learn further, about 5
19:35 sbp given the very strong heritage in Perl 5, I think it's (and that it'll continue to be) interesting to pick it up as a fresh entry point
19:36 lue I really enjoy Perl 6 as well as #perl6. I wouldn't have been able to stay this long if it weren't :)
19:37 masak sbp: I would be very interested to read what you have to say about that.
19:37 sbp of course there are some points where I'm spoiled on that, e.g. pcre. everybody knows pcre, hard to pick up Perl 6 regex as though it were entirely new!
19:37 fhelmberger left #perl6
19:38 Su-Shee sbp: the interesting part of 5 is the amazing flexibility which made something as Moose possible. There's sure as hell a lot to learn..
19:38 arnsholt Which Perl 6 is it that has full-LTM in its regexes again?
19:38 dalek rakudo: 8b8655b | KodiB++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
19:38 dalek rakudo: [Perl6/Grammar] Combined <!apostrophe> and <nofun> into <end_keyword>.
19:38 dalek rakudo:
19:38 dalek rakudo: This fixes RT #72438 and RT #74948.
19:38 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b8655b2a3
19:38 arnsholt I forget
19:39 colomon arnsholt: it's not Rakudo.
19:39 colomon maybe niecza?
19:39 moritz_ yes
19:39 masak niecza++ sorear++
19:40 sorear arnsholt: niecza and viv
19:40 arnsholt Cheers!
19:41 * arnsholt goes to download niecza and Mono
19:41 lue that reminds me. I don't suppose there's any way to fake LTM with proto regexes like you can with a list of choices (e.g. /abra||abr||ab||a/), is there?
19:41 pmurias sorear: hi
19:41 pmurias sorear: how are containers implemented in niecza?
19:43 pmurias and what does the second argument to nam-scopedlex do?
19:44 sorear pmurias: binding.  $x := $y becomes (scopedlex $x (newboundvar ... $y))
19:44 sorear newboundvar does the binding type check, and also handles readonly/list bits
19:45 sorear at a lower level, (scopedlex $x ...) sets a frame slot, (scopedlex $x) fetches oen
19:45 masak sorear: do you have any idea how to solve my problem with xbuild?
19:45 masak it's what prevents me from using niecza currently.
19:45 sorear as for containers... scalar or aggregate?
19:46 moritz_ masak: what's the problem?
19:46 sorear masak: my only guess is that you're not starting xbuild from the top directory
19:47 sorear masak: does xbuild /v:diag say anything interesting?
19:49 dalek rakudo: bdbf3f4 | moritz++ | src/core/IO.pm:
19:49 dalek rakudo: fix RT #80252, parrot strings returned from dir()
19:49 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bdbf3f4669
19:51 masak moritz_: getting the following error:
19:51 masak MSBUILD: error MSBUILD0003: No .proj file specified and no found in current directory.
19:51 masak I see a Niecza.proj right there.
19:51 moritz_ huh.
19:52 masak when I specify it explicitly, I get this:
19:52 masak MSBUILD: error MSBUILD0000: Could not load file or assembly '/home/masak/git-theirs/niecza/obj/PerlTask.dll' or one of its dependencies. The system cannot find the file specified.
19:52 masak the obj/ directory is empty.
19:53 pmurias sorear: does niecza support user defined containers?
19:53 masak adding /v:diag only outputs a version header, and then the same error.
19:55 sorear pmurias: what kind?
19:55 sorear masak: odd; the way it's supposed to work is that PerlTask.dll is built before it's needed
19:56 sorear masak: what version of xbuild do you have?
19:56 pmurias my $foo := foo();$foo = 123 # a method gets called on the thing foo() returned
19:56 shi joined #perl6
19:57 pmurias sorear: there's a Proxy class in the synopsis that can be used to create a custom container
19:57 sorear niecza doesn't currently have that
19:58 sorear if you want to give $foo special behavior, you'll need to subclass Niecza.Variable in Kernel.dll
19:58 masak sorear: XBuild Engine Version 0.1\nMono, Version 1.9.1.0
20:00 sorear masak: the minimum version of Mono confirmed to work is 2.4
20:00 masak oh, ok.
20:00 masak that explains it, then.
20:00 masak I'll see about upgrading.
20:00 sorear that was a while ago, I might have broken compat since then. :/
20:02 pmurias sorear: but that should be possible?
20:02 Kodi left #perl6
20:03 sorear pmurias: yes
20:05 sorear I'm not thrilled with the Proxy API but variables with custom get/set routines are on the near todo
20:08 moritz_ what's the correct way to run the niecza tests?
20:09 sorear xbuild /t:Test
20:09 * moritz_ tries
20:10 masak sorear: I'm not thrilled with the Proxy API either, but I'm very eager to use *anything* like it.
20:10 moritz_ All tests successful
20:19 pmurias masak: what would you prefer FETCH/STORE on a custom class?
20:21 masak pmurias: sorry, question doesn't parse.
20:21 masak missing comma or extraneous "what", perhaps?
20:21 masak please restate.
20:22 moritz_ maybe s/<?after 'prefer '>/in favor of/  ?
20:22 masak oh.
20:26 * moritz_ would love to inherit from Scalar or PositionalContainer or HashContainer for $, @ and %
20:29 rindolf joined #perl6
20:29 rindolf Hi all.
20:30 tadzik ~
20:30 rindolf tadzik: hi.
20:31 rindolf tadzik: what's up?
20:31 lue afk
20:31 masak greetings, rindolf.
20:31 rindolf Hi masak . Sup?
20:31 rindolf Does anyone here know Dylan?
20:31 masak roof. sky. space. :)
20:31 Su-Shee I do.
20:32 risou joined #perl6
20:32 rindolf Su-Shee: great.
20:32 rindolf Su-Shee: what piqued your interest in it?
20:32 tadzik rindolf: cool
20:32 tadzik rindolf: the module ecosystem is evolving nicely
20:32 rindolf tadzik: nice.
20:32 masak pmurias: I don't know, really. seems one would conceivably get away with 'Any.new but { method FETCH { ... }; method STORE { ... } }'
20:33 Su-Shee rindolf: nothing. someone mentioned it, I looked into it, didn't think much of it but "oh yet another language with nice features and no ecosystem" and played a little with it like with a dead mouse. ;)
20:33 masak pmurias: but maybe it makes sense to have sugar for that in the form of a Proxy class, I dunno.
20:33 rindolf Su-Shee: I see.
20:34 jevin left #perl6
20:36 * masak gives up installing a sufficiently recent Mono on Debian for today
20:37 masak it appears possible, and probably easy when one knows the right incantations.
20:37 moritz_ masak: what Debian do you use?
20:37 moritz_ masak: on Squeeze it's a breeze :-)
20:38 moritz_ aptitude install mono-xbuild  mono-gmcs
20:38 moritz_ maybe also mono-2.0-gac
20:38 masak I'm on Lenny.
20:38 masak I'll try those.
20:38 moritz_ on lenny they are too old I fear
20:39 masak oh :(
20:39 masak Lenny is 5.0, right?
20:39 masak thought that was the latest Debian when I installed it.
20:39 moritz_ jep; Squeeze is still "testing" (though actually quite stable)
20:39 masak I think I'd like to use that one, then.
20:39 masak what's my best course of action?
20:40 masak can I just do a global update somwhow?
20:40 masak *somehow
20:40 * icwiener bets that Squeeze will be release in February. :)
20:40 moritz_ masak: you can do an upgrade, yes
20:40 moritz_ I don't know the instructions by heart though
20:41 icwiener Edit /etc/apt/sources.list -> s/lenny/squeeze/
20:42 icwiener paste the resulting file if you are unsure.
20:42 pmurias masak: compile on from source
20:42 icwiener And then run "aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade"
20:42 pmurias s/on/one
20:42 masak pmurias: that doesn't appear to be the Debian Way.
20:42 masak icwiener: thanks.
20:42 moritz_ see http://www.debian-administration.org/users/e5z8652/weblog/22
20:42 masak hokay.
20:42 moritz_ masak: the step of updating the kernel, and then rebooting is important
20:43 moritz_ (before doing the rest of the upgrade)
20:43 moritz_ I didn't on my machine, and had some trouble figuring out the mess afterwards :-)
20:43 pmurias masak: i prefere packages that the debian folk don't tamper with
20:43 pmurias * prefer
20:44 Su-Shee .oO(Slackware. Untempered Linux since 1993 ;)
20:44 Su-Shee Tampered ;)
20:44 icwiener moritz_: Oh, good to know (/me never actually did this upgrade) :)
20:44 [Coke] .
20:44 moritz_ icwiener: then be careful with what you recommend :-)
20:45 flussence I'd like to second that "."
20:45 sorear I just use mono from github; it'll be ages before 2.9+ is in any version of Debian
20:46 moritz_ sorear: I'll just annoy you when you break niecza on mono 2.6.7 :-)
20:46 flussence (slackware was the first distro I ever used... I didn't even know *how* to RTFM back then)
20:46 sorear moritz_: I appreciate that
20:46 masak moritz_: having slight problems on the linux-image step.
20:47 risou left #perl6
20:47 masak moritz_: aptitude couldn't find a module of that exact name.
20:47 moritz_ masak: did you run 'aptitude update' after chaning sources.list ?
20:47 masak yes.
20:47 masak it did a lot of updating.
20:47 flussence masak: it'll have "2.6" in the name too, try searching for that part
20:48 icwiener moritz_: I upgraded three versions of Debian that way so I had that warm fuzzy feeling of confidence about those steps. But you are right. :)
20:48 masak moritz_: though now I see there were some 404s in the output from 'aptitude update'.
20:48 flussence (the ncurses interface makes this a lot easier...)
20:48 moritz_ masak: could you plese nopaste your sources.list?
20:49 moritz_ 404s are bad
20:49 tadzik ncurses... bingings for ncurses would be nice
20:50 flussence I've never written a console-gui program before, but I've heard slang is easier than ncurses.
20:50 masak moritz_: https://gist.github.com/772001
20:51 masak tadzik: Parrot has bindings for ncurses.
20:51 tadzik right. Back to the wrapper problem again
20:52 moritz_ masak: if you comment out two volatile lines (with # ) and re-run aptitute update, do you still get 404s?
20:53 masak moritz_: I added the output from 'aptitude update': https://gist.github.com/772001
20:53 masak I'll try commenting out.
20:54 moritz_ no need, all the 404s are from volatile
20:54 moritz_ that shouldn't hurt
20:54 moritz_ masak: what's your architecture? amd64?
20:54 masak 404s went away.
20:54 timbunce joined #perl6
20:54 masak yes, amd64.
20:55 masak I see linux-image-2.6-amd64 here. trying that.
20:55 moritz_ that would have been my next suggestion, yes
20:55 masak whee
20:56 arlinius joined #perl6
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20:59 timbunce left #perl6
21:01 dalek niecza: ad19fad | sorear++ | / (7 files):
21:01 dalek niecza: [v6] First port of NieczaCompiler
21:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ad19fad6a9
21:03 * moritz_ thinks "why remove the fun?" whenever he reads (defun ...)
21:04 masak sorear: interesting. so you're writing a lot of Perl 6 code now?
21:05 moritz_ advent2009-day20.t somtimes fails a test for me
21:06 sorear masak: yes
21:07 moritz_ ah, it uses random numbers
21:07 moritz_ and has a test that sorting by string is different than sorting by number
21:07 masak here are the failures from a spectest run I just finished: https://gist.github.com/772022
21:08 * masak reboots
21:08 masak left #perl6
21:08 * sorear is now trying to use the Perl6 version of Niecza to compile the setting
21:10 dalek roast: 3a387fe | moritz++ | integration/advent2009-day20.t:
21:10 dalek roast: make advent day 20 more reliable
21:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3a387fe666
21:12 pmurias moritz_: re defun are you looking at niecza's common lisp backend? ;)
21:13 moritz_ pmurias: yes
21:13 moritz_ well, "looking" is exaggerated
21:13 moritz_ I just read some diffs
21:13 diakopter sorear: impressive.  most impressive.
21:16 mberends left #perl6
21:21 arnsholt sorear: BTW, what is a good starting point for looking into Niecza's parsing code?
21:22 tadzik phenny: tell masak shouldn't the blog url on your GH dashboard end with .org?
21:22 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
21:27 sorear arnsholt: the various code methods in RxOp.pm and the C# functions they call in Cursor.cs
21:27 arnsholt Cheers!
21:29 mberends joined #perl6
21:33 GinoMan joined #perl6
21:46 dalek niecza: 656d5f3 | sorear++ | v6/ (2 files):
21:46 dalek niecza: [v6] First batch of fixes to parse setting
21:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/656d5f3343
21:48 lopaway is now known as lopnor
21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 1146ba7 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: More PIR => NQP and other work to prep HLL::Compiler to work with 6model.
21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1146ba7ff5
22:03 dalek sprixel: dd83c25 | diakopter++ | / (7 files):
22:03 dalek sprixel: remove right recursion in perlesque grammar's statement list, which was overf .net stack on large input files.
22:03 dalek sprixel: vastly simplify that portion of the grammar as a happy side effect.
22:03 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/dd83c2525a
22:07 MayDaniel joined #perl6
22:10 colomon dang, a lot of commits flying by today!!
22:11 tadzik fun! \o/
22:15 _jaldhar left #perl6
22:15 kjeldahl left #perl6
22:15 plobsing \o/ /o\ \o/ # flying commits
22:15 _jaldhar joined #perl6
22:19 shi left #perl6
22:33 shi joined #perl6
22:33 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
22:35 PacoLinux left #perl6
22:38 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
22:40 GinoMan left #perl6
22:44 jevin_ joined #perl6
22:46 * sorear needs to figure out why ../niecza_eval harness caused NieczaActions to be rebuilt *twice*
22:57 kaare_ left #perl6
22:57 lopnor is now known as lopaway
23:02 MayDaniel left #perl6
23:03 masak joined #perl6
23:03 masak \o/
23:03 phenny masak: 21:22Z <tadzik> tell masak shouldn't the blog url on your GH dashboard end with .org?
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: c00a30c | jonathan++ | / (7 files):
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Switch HLL::Compiler, NQP::Compiler and Regex::P6Regex::Compiler to use class_6m. In the process, create .pm files for a couple of them (we keep the PIR around too, to combine the various produced outputs). Needs re-configure.
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c00a30cf5f
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: bd0b0fe | jonathan++ | src/HLL (2 files):
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Move Parrot HLL compiler init to avoid tickling an initializatin order bug (will track it down tomorrow or so). Gets some of the tests regressed when making HLL::Compiler et al use 6model passing again (down to just 2 regressions now).
23:04 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/bd0b0fe943
23:05 KyleHa joined #perl6
23:06 masak tadzik: indeed. good catch, tadzik++. fixed.
23:09 KyleHa Folks, my test reporter has been out of commission for over a week now.
23:09 KyleHa It may yet return, but I think it will be quite a while. For faster service, you might want to find someone else to run it.
23:10 zby_home_ left #perl6
23:10 colomon KyleHa: what would be involved?
23:11 KyleHa colomon: I ran it as a cron job every ten minutes or so.  It updates a local copy of the roast repo and sends an email when appropriate.
23:11 KyleHa So it needs a persistent network connection and the ability to send email.
23:11 KyleHa The code is in test-reporter.pl, probably in the Mu repo somewhere now.
23:11 colomon did it run the tests, or just monitor them?
23:12 colomon I mean, monitor their source.
23:12 KyleHa Just monitor.  It looks for a commit of a test for an RT ticket and sends an email to the ticket with the diff.
23:13 colomon hmmm.... wonder if my wee server can send e-mail?
23:14 KyleHa The biggest problem I had was when it couldn't get to the repo, and cron would send me an error message several times per hour.
23:14 colomon ouch
23:15 KyleHa It keeps a record of the last commit that it looked at.  Before you run it, you should set that to something recent, so it doesn't send repeat notices.
23:17 KyleHa Anyone looking for help is welcome to email me at kyleha@gmail.com.  Thanks.
23:17 KyleHa left #perl6
23:21 icwiener left #perl6
23:24 lopaway is now known as lopnor
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23:48 shi left #perl6
23:55 jnthn goodnight, #perl6
23:56 MayDaniel left #perl6
23:57 masak sorear: almost there now. I'm getting this error message: https://gist.github.com/772160
23:57 * masak ==>> $bed
23:58 masak left #perl6

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