Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-12

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:12 patrick[BROWSING hello
00:13 patrick[BROWSING I've just installed the new Rakudo star and first ran it with perl6 --version and got an error, is that one already known?
00:14 sorear We can't answer that without knowing the error you got.
00:15 patrick[BROWSING Null PMC access in get_bool()
00:16 sorear How did you install the new Rakudo star?
00:17 patrick[BROWSING perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot && make && make install
00:17 patrick[BROWSING before that, I downloaded it from github and untared it
00:20 * sorear is not familiar with this one, but doesn't follow Rakudo* too closely
00:20 patrick[BROWSING it's not a big problem though, perl6 itself seems to work, but “perl6 --version” was the first run I did
00:20 sorear ha
00:21 dalek niecza: b0be6ab | sorear++ | v6/ (3 files):
00:21 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix shadowing of postcircumfix operators
00:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b0be6ababb
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01:01 snarkyboojum patrick[BROWSING: I can reproduce the error - looks like a bug
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01:25 dalek niecza: 8f7f9e8 | sorear++ | v6/harness:
01:25 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix parsing of @_ placeholder
01:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8f7f9e8b54
01:25 dalek niecza: aa7ce49 | sorear++ | v6/harness:
01:25 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix method not found in RxOp::Subrule.clone
01:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/aa7ce499f7
01:25 dalek niecza: d4cf9df | sorear++ | v6/harness:
01:25 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix regex_infix parsing
01:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d4cf9dfbc2
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03:37 dalek sprixel: dd8aa4e | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (7 files):
03:37 dalek sprixel: lots & lots of mono vs .net behavior sync'ing fixes, wrt SRE madness. :)
03:37 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/dd8aa4ec73
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04:16 snarkyboojum description of the bug affecting --version for Rakudo Star distributions, and a little patch - https://gist.github.com/775688
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04:17 snarkyboojum raised by patrick[BROWSING earlier today
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05:12 dalek niecza: 1b79755 | sorear++ | v6/ (6 files):
05:12 dalek niecza: [v6] mergeback
05:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1b79755094
05:12 dalek niecza: 28f62bc | sorear++ | v6/harness:
05:12 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix adverb parsing
05:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/28f62bccbb
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06:10 dalek sprixel: 0c25ee5 | diakopter++ | / (10 files):
06:10 dalek sprixel: fix parsing of static fields, properties (on type literals, essentially)
06:10 dalek sprixel: fix handling of them in runsharp & the compiler.
06:10 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/0c25ee5c33
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07:38 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=881785 another thread where I couldn't resist providing a Perl 6 answer :-)
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07:39 dalek rakudo: 9b8bad7 | snarkyboojum++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.pir:
07:39 dalek rakudo: Parrot revision for --version fix
07:39 dalek rakudo:
07:39 dalek rakudo: Check to see that the Parrot rev is available before trying to use it.
07:39 dalek rakudo:
07:39 dalek rakudo: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
07:39 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9b8bad79fb
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07:50 snarkyboojum moritz_: cheers
07:50 moritz_ snarkyboojum: thank you for the patch
07:51 moritz_ snarkyboojum: I meant to write basically the same patch after the 2010.11 release, but forgot :-)
07:51 snarkyboojum will "fix" the --version issue for Rakudo Star next release
07:51 snarkyboojum moritz_: ah :)
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08:05 sorear bizarre... managed to break A::B::C but not A::B
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09:04 tadzik snarkyboojum: that's what I did
09:04 phenny tadzik: 11 Jan 22:55Z <snarkyboojum> tell tadzik so in that case it might be worth moving your commands to --<command> switches? a la cpanm etc
09:06 snarkyboojum tadzik: cool
09:06 tadzik I was writing the USAGE looking at the cpanm --help
09:07 snarkyboojum tadzik: in that case, I have a feature request :) .. --info switch or similar to just return info about a particular module
09:09 snarkyboojum tadzik: e.g. the source of the module
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09:09 snarkyboojum tadzik: not the source code, but where the module came from praps e.g. github url.. I don't know :)
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09:11 tadzik snarkyboojum: awesome idea, well volunteered!
09:11 snarkyboojum tadzik: I was going to just give you a patch, but wanted to wait until you had changed the command line args stuff :)
09:12 sorear tadzik: what sorts of features does neutro need of the implementation?
09:12 tadzik bah, META.info has no author
09:12 tadzik sorear: I check it on niecza from time to time, let me see
09:12 tadzik oh, file operations definitely
09:12 tadzik and it's not dependency-free, so JSON, File::Tools and Module::Tools
09:13 tadzik snarkyboojum: the args stuff was fixed yesterday
09:13 sorear also, I beleive you meant to say "baile"
09:13 tadzik (in the branch of course)
09:13 tadzik probably, I'm not even A1 in Spanish :)
09:13 sorear calling a function bailar is like calling it to_dance
09:13 sorear A1?
09:13 tadzik yeah, that's right
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09:14 tadzik there is this scale on learning languages, A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2
09:14 * sorear is not competent in the language by any means
09:14 tadzik B2~C1 is what native speakers speak, iirc
09:14 sorear tadzik: I do not beleive that system is used in the US
09:14 tadzik maybe
09:14 sorear so I have no experience with it
09:16 tadzik have you heard of this FCE thingy?
09:17 tadzik that's B2, so sort of "the basic understand and usage of the language". A1, which I'm not at yet, is like "I can understand basic sentences from the topics I know and say something in easy words about the topics I know"
09:17 tadzik iirc
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09:18 tadzik sorear: http://pastie.org/1451570
09:22 masak morning, zebras.
09:22 tadzik morning masak
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09:25 sorear hi masak.
09:27 tadzik snarkyboojum: https://github.com/tadzik/neutro/issues#issue/2 :)
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09:27 snarkyboojum tadzik: I like :)
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09:28 tadzik bbl, gotta go
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09:41 snarkyboojum tadzik: there ya go - https://gist.github.com/775944 :D
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09:51 snarkyboojum tadzik: Feel free to clean up or throw away entirely :D https://gist.github.com/775953
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10:25 masak std: my Int sub foo(--> Bool) returns Str { ... }
10:25 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Extra 'of' type; already declared as type Int at /tmp/ckDRYuSFdy line 1:␤------> [32mmy Int sub foo(--> Bool[33m⏏[31m) returns Str { ... }[0m␤Extra 'of' type; already declared as type Bool at /tmp/ckDRYuSFdy line 1:␤------> [32mmy Int sub
10:25 p6eval ..foo(-->…
10:26 masak :)
10:26 masak std: my Int sub foo() returns Str { ... }
10:26 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Extra 'of' type; already declared as type Int at /tmp/W3pBx0dUzU line 1:␤------> [32mmy Int sub foo() returns Str [33m⏏[31m{ ... }[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
10:26 masak there's no fooling STD.
10:26 moritz_ TimToady++
10:27 moritz_ there are areas where STD is quite thorough
10:36 tadzik snarkyboojum: I'd go for @args».&install unless $info; !$info looks a bit like $!info, but nice patch
10:36 snarkyboojum tadzik: good-o :)
10:37 snarkyboojum tadzik: want me to send you another patch then?
10:37 tadzik snarkyboojum: if you wish :) I'm on a discrete maths classes now anyways :)
10:37 snarkyboojum tadzik: nps
10:45 masak rakudo: my &r := &return; sub f { my sub return($v) { say "LOL!"; &r($v) }; return 42 }; say f
10:45 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«LOL!␤42␤»
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10:45 masak rakudo: my &r := &return; sub f { my sub return($v) { say "LOL!"; &r($v + 10) }; return 42 }; say f
10:46 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«LOL!␤52␤»
10:46 masak wow! that *works*!
10:46 masak moritz_! :D
10:46 masak moritz_: I have a workaround for one of your RT tickets.
10:46 * masak adds it to that ticket
10:46 moritz_ masak: I have too. I just name the new return differently :-)
10:47 masak now you don't have to :)
10:47 moritz_ masak: fwiw my workaround in the submission for p4 :-)
10:49 masak right. haven't looked at it yet. will soon, hopefully today.
10:50 moritz_ it's used for reverting the coordinate transformation that I do interenally to get rid of the cyclic boundary conditions
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11:02 dalek niecza: 6c3d380 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
11:02 dalek niecza: [v6] More misc fixes
11:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6c3d3809e2
11:02 dalek niecza: a21bc67 | sorear++ | v6/ (3 files):
11:02 dalek niecza: [v6] More random fixes - first 674 tests pass
11:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a21bc67cf7
11:05 sorear delightful, my *-currying tests are broken
11:06 sorear ok (* + 5)(2) == 7 # This means ok -> $a { ($a + 5)(2) == 7 }, and blocks are true
11:06 moritz_ you shouldn't curry code invocation :-)
11:08 mux so that's how perl6 allows currying
11:08 masak mux: there's also .assume
11:09 moritz_ .assuming iirc
11:09 sorear * is mostly just for operators
11:10 sorear although I've used *.&defined in a couple evil places in niecza-v6 :>
11:10 mux so, * for left and right sections, and .assuming for partial application
11:10 mux (that shouldn't be called currying actually)
11:10 masak right, .assuming
11:10 * mux googles .assuming
11:10 sorear "left and right sections"... I know where YOU came from
11:11 * mux hides :-)
11:11 masak it's ok, we like lambdapeople.
11:11 mux heh, I like that name: "whatever-star"
11:11 masak mux: and I might be a bit confused about what currying really is, still, so maybe .assuming doesn't count, no.
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11:12 * moritz_ thinks it does
11:12 * sorear wonders if mux remembers me
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11:12 mux mmmm, your nickname clearly rings a bell, but I can't say more
11:13 dalek niecza: 6e17857 | sorear++ | v6/harness:
11:13 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix whatever-star currying
11:13 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6e178570f8
11:13 sorear wtf. "all tests successful"
11:13 sorear ah well, best be happy.
11:13 moritz_ just means you don't have enough tests :-)
11:14 * sorear -> sleep, tomorrow will see if niecza-v6 can compile itself
11:14 mux sorear: please tell me when I met you already, I feel bad about it
11:14 moritz_ sorear: you can also exclude smart-matching and binding from whatever currying
11:14 sorear mux: I was pretty active in #haskell ca. 2007
11:14 mux sorear: aaaah. okay :)
11:15 mux have a good night
11:16 tadzik snarkyboojum: writing a patch?
11:16 snarkyboojum tadzik: have done.. will generate it
11:20 tadzik cool
11:21 snarkyboojum tadzik: doh - don't know how to squash the two commits into one patch, and don't have time to learn atm :D
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11:24 moritz_ git rebase -i HEAD~3
11:24 moritz_ then change the last line to "s $commit_id"
11:24 moritz_ save and exit
11:26 snarkyboojum moritz_: the last line?
11:26 moritz_ snarkyboojum: you will be offered a file with commits in your favorite $EDITOR
11:27 snarkyboojum moritz_: gotcha I think - and what do you mean by "s $commit_id"
11:27 moritz_ snarkyboojum: do it, you'll see
11:27 moritz_ the lines are of the form <command> <commit_id>
11:27 moritz_ just change the command to s
11:30 snarkyboojum ha - I stuffed it up I think - oh well
11:30 snarkyboojum I "just tried it" before you explained ;)
11:33 snarkyboojum moritz_: ooh - but fixed it, and it worked! thanks
11:34 moritz_ \o/
11:34 moritz_ you're welcome
11:34 snarkyboojum git rebase --abort let me start again it seemed
11:34 moritz_ it does
11:34 snarkyboojum nifty!
11:35 snarkyboojum tadzik: and so after all of that, I have the same patch as before with 3 characters different :P https://gist.github.com/775953
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11:45 tadzik snarkyboojum: applied, thanks!
11:45 snarkyboojum tadzik: w00t - welcome
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12:00 masak tadzik: I've now read http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2011/01/08/perl-​6-module-ecosystem-%E2%80%93-news-and-ideas/
12:00 masak tadzik: kudos.
12:01 masak I really like how the ecosystem evolves bit by bit like this. it's very different now from when proto got started two years ago.
12:02 * jnthn wonders if Neutro will one day win the Peace Prize too. :)
12:04 tadzik Peace Prize?
12:04 tadzik ah :)
12:05 tadzik maybe, like proto evolved into pls, neutro will evolve into noble :)
12:06 tadzik masak: today I realised I forgot to add an author field to META.info :)
12:07 tadzik so, what would you say for merging the neutro branch, pulling tadzik/ecosystem into perl6/ecosystem and adjusting modules.perl6.org in, say, a few days?
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12:08 tadzik the only blocker is the module authors, there are still too many important modules in the old format
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12:42 moritz_ .u ♥
12:42 phenny U+2665 BLACK HEART SUIT (♥)
12:46 daxim p6eval,  my $f = sub ($n) { return 1 if $n < 2; return $n * $?SUB.($n - 1); }; $f(6).say;
12:47 daxim perl6,  my $f = sub ($n) { return 1 if $n < 2; return $n * $?SUB.($n - 1); }; $f(6).say;
12:48 daxim DWIM for FSM's sake!
12:48 daxim perl6:  my $f = sub ($n) { return 1 if $n < 2; return $n * $?SUB.($n - 1); }; $f(6).say;
12:48 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?SUB' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/3A0pFR5V1b:22)␤»
12:48 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "$?SUB"␤    at /tmp/GaSi9TN0Kr line 1, column 47-66␤»
12:48 p6eval ..niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Unrecognized variable: $?SUB at /tmp/3OvXXMoGse line 1:␤------> [32m { return 1 if $n < 2; return $n * $?SUB[33m⏏[31m.($n - 1); }; $f(6).say;[0m␤␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical $?SUB in ANON␤  at
12:48 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProc…
12:49 takadonet morning all
12:58 colomon tadzik: couldn't you use deps.proto to make a fake META.info if a real META.info is not available?
12:58 colomon tadzik: just as a stop gap?
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13:11 tadzik colomon: that's a bit complicated. If there's no META.info registered in the ecosystem, the installer does not know what/were the memory is
13:12 tadzik but it should be possible to write a class faking the META.info if not present, as a stop
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13:12 tadzik but I'm afraid that'll result in some of the old modules never being fixed
13:12 tadzik unless we set some deadline
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13:19 daxim oooo funky  http://p3rl.org/Whatever
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13:26 Fuad hi
13:27 takadonet Fuad: hey
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13:36 daxim perl6: <In des Waldes tiefsten Gründen ist kein Räuber mehr zu finden.>.sort.say
13:36 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«decodeUTF8': bad data: '\252'␤decodeUTF8': bad data: '\228'␤GründenInRäuberWaldesde​sfinden.istkeinmehrtiefstenzu␤»
13:36 p6eval ..rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«GründenInRäuberWaldesdes​finden.istkeinmehrtiefstenzu␤»
13:36 p6eval ..niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«Gründen In Räuber Waldes des finden. ist kein mehr tiefsten zu␤»
13:37 daxim perl6: <In des Waldes tiefsten Gründen ist kein Räuber mehr zu finden.>.sort(*.chars <=> *.chars).say
13:37 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«decodeUTF8': bad data: '\252'␤decodeUTF8': bad data: '\228'␤0GründenInRäuberWaldesd​esfinden.istkeinmehrtiefstenzu␤»
13:37 p6eval ..niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical &infix:<<=>> in ANON␤  at Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.ResolveLex (System.String name, System.Int32& uplevel, Boolean core) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
13:37 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.RawAccessLex (System.S…
13:37 p6eval ..rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«InzudesistkeinmehrWaldes​RäuberGründenfinden.tiefsten␤»
13:37 Fuad Im looking for PERL gaming bots
13:37 daxim rakudo wins
13:37 Fuad i have made one
13:37 Fuad idleRPG bot on perl
13:38 Fuad is there any other perl gaming bots ?
13:38 Fuad perl is great
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13:53 Fuad masak
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14:02 lurkingnoob Fuad: there's openkore =)
14:03 tadzik oh, I know how to handle this
14:03 tadzik I can create a module shelter, with a META.info for each orphaned module, with additional "note" : "ORPHANED"
14:03 tadzik So if someone wants to continue work, he/she can adopt his/her module back
14:04 daxim what sort of format is .info?
14:05 tadzik json, actually
14:05 tadzik if that's what you mean
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14:06 daxim they why isn't it named so?
14:06 tadzik hrm
14:06 tadzik for I stole it from S22
14:06 daxim aha
14:06 tadzik where it's said to be YAML
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14:07 tadzik META.info is more general, it won't look stupid if one day we'll change json to something else
14:09 daxim I'll teach you data design because we do not have a proper librarian here, that would be a job for one.
14:09 tadzik hm?
14:09 daxim note is signifying nothing, a hollow key where all the meaning is in the value ORPHANED
14:10 tadzik warnings?
14:10 tadzik gotchas? :)
14:10 daxim no
14:10 tadzik or we can put ORPHANED in the description, then it'll show up on the listing
14:10 daxim invent a key that is self-explaining, like:  adopted-status: orphaned
14:11 daxim lack of that key would imply the default value "actively maintained"
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14:12 daxim adding metadata into a name/description is right out.  that's the same stupid mistake as tieing the file type to the name as "extension", and we have been suffering from this the last 20, 30 years
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14:14 daxim since that key name I just made up is not standardised in a spec, it is customary to prefix it with  x-
14:16 tadzik daxim: adding ORPHANED to the description has this good side, that users will clearly see the state and module author will get ashamed
14:16 tadzik and that's what I'd really like to achieve.
14:16 tadzik Generally, putting metadata in name/description is stupid, I agree
14:17 daxim that responsibility does not belong in the data, but in the toolchain.  whatever web page displays it can put a big fat warning in red and blink when it sees that value
14:17 takadonet tadzik: speaking about being ashamed... you forgot to add one of my modules up there to your META list!
14:17 tadzik :O
14:17 * tadzik is ashamed
14:17 tadzik takadonet: wanna commit bit, Justin Case?
14:18 takadonet https://github.com/Takadonet/Tex​t-Tabs-Wrap/raw/master/META.info
14:18 takadonet if i get one... then I have no excuse!
14:18 tadzik my git diff is non-empty :( I have no excuse!
14:18 * tadzik pushes
14:19 tadzik ee, ETOORESTRICTIVEFIREWALL
14:19 tadzik oh wait, it worked
14:19 tadzik ahh, pushing is via ssh
14:21 tadzik daxim: if I were about to redesign META.info now, I'd probably add some field as you say. But with the possibilities that are there now, description is imho the best place to use
14:21 takadonet thanks!
14:22 daxim well, it's wrong.  I can't keep you from doing it
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14:25 takadonet mj41: welcome back
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14:34 tadzik daxim: it's temporary, and it's the most effective thing I can work out w/o adjusting the toolchain
14:37 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/ec​osystem/tree/master/SHELTER -- the "still not there" modules
14:37 takadonet shit! forgot to add bioperl6 META.info file....
14:40 tadzik it works! \o/
14:41 cognominal_ In Grammar.pm, I see    rule param_sep { $<sep>=[','|':'|';;'|';'] { @*seps.push($<sep>) }}
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14:41 cognominal_ I can't remember what the ';' separator is used for
14:41 takadonet tadzik: what works?
14:41 tadzik takadonet: what works?
14:41 tadzik ah
14:41 tadzik takadonet: creating a shelter
14:42 tadzik it magically makes module maintainer remember about the changes :)
14:42 cognominal_ Also in Actions.pm, I don't see that case handler in the signature method
14:42 cognominal_ *handled
14:44 PerlJam cognominal_: Assuming I've got the right context, the semicolon is for multiple dimensions
14:45 cognominal_ PerlJam, what is the relationship with a parameter separator?
14:46 cognominal_ Is that some kind of pattern matching?
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14:54 PerlJam Hmm.
14:58 PerlJam aha!
14:58 PerlJam cognominal_: See S12:1215
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15:02 PerlJam I wonder if Rakudo implements that since the whole paragraph is conjectural
15:03 cognominal_ PerlJam++  # so it is parsed but not yet handled
15:06 PerlJam After reading that paragraph 3 times that usage of semicolon still seems bizarre
15:07 cognominal_ Indded, It does not seem to involve parameter separators
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15:10 PerlJam The fact that the paragraph itself questions whether or not there is a use-case for it makes me think YAGNI and perhaps the paragraph could be shortened to "semicolon is treated as comma"
15:10 PerlJam (and moved to S06)
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15:24 takadonet bioperl6 is not an ORPHAN !
15:24 masak tadzik: re author field. it feels like you, to some extent, are duplicating data that originally resides in the module tags inside the .pm files
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15:43 matthias_ rakudo: my %h.=push( a => 1 );
15:43 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash expected␤  in '!STORE' at line 5210:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/wAoYz1IeN8␤»
15:43 matthias_ rakudo: my %h.=push('a' => 1);
15:43 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash expected␤  in '!STORE' at line 5210:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/cTQzVbcRKH␤»
15:43 matthias_ rakudo: my %h = %h.push('a' => 1);
15:43 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash expected␤  in '!STORE' at line 5210:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Gd1guQMCAu␤»
15:44 matthias_ rakudo: my %h; %h.push('a' => 1); say %h.perl;
15:44 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1}␤»
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15:48 PerlJam I guess Hash.push doesn't return the hash
15:48 colomon rakudo: my %h; say %h.push('a' => 1).perl;
15:48 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«Any␤»
15:48 matthias_ hm.. But maybe there is a general way to avoid "empty declarations"?
15:49 Patterner left #perl6
15:49 colomon rakudo: my %h = 'b' => 2; say %h.push('a' => 1).perl;
15:49 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«Any␤»
15:49 colomon rakudo: my @h = 'b'; say @h.push('a').perl;
15:49 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«["b", "a"]␤»
15:49 matthias_ I would like to be able to use the declared variable right away in its initialization :)
15:49 PerlJam The spec says it should return the hash.  That seems like it should be LHF
15:50 colomon indeed.
15:50 matthias_ cool :)
15:50 PerlJam matthias_: you can and you did :)
15:50 colomon though I really don't see the point in using " the declared variable right away in its initialization" -- at least like this?
15:51 colomon I mean, why not initialize it directly, rather than trying to push to it during initialization?
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15:51 matthias_ I just find it annoying to write my X; X = ... in several situations :)
15:52 colomon but you can say my X = ...
15:52 matthias_ yeah but it fails if I want to use the variable on the rhs
15:52 PerlJam rakudo: my %h = 'a' => 1;  say %h.perl;
15:52 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«{"a" => 1}␤»
15:53 PerlJam matthias_: it failed for reasons totally unrelated to being able to use the var as soon as it is declared.
15:54 masak diakopter: I'm not fully backlogged yet, but... three days ago you asked about non-self private attribute access. sorear answered $obj!attr. my impression is that sorear's proposed syntax only concerns private method calls, not private attributes, and that in Perl 6, objects are so opaque that not even non-self objects of the same class can see self's private attributes.
15:54 matthias_ perljam: I meant: I want to be able to use the variable on the rhs of the assignment: my %h = %h.push(); for example fails
15:55 PerlJam matthias_: no, it works just fine except that Hash.push doesn't return the hash for assignment.
15:55 colomon matthias_: but how is that construct in any way an improvement of my %h = whatever you were going to push?
15:55 PerlJam :)
15:55 matthias_ oh!
15:55 matthias_ you're right, mea culpa :)
15:56 colomon I can imagine complicated lazy constructs where you might want to use a variable in its own definition, but those won't work with = anyway.  :)
15:56 matthias_ colomon: I thought push() has special semantics, so it creates arrays where keys appear multiple times
15:57 exodist is now known as Exodist
15:57 colomon matthias_: hmmm...
15:57 simon_ left #perl6
15:58 colomon rakudo: my %h = 'a' => 10, 'a' => 20; say %h.perl
15:58 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«{"a" => 20}␤»
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15:58 PerlJam colomon: He's correct AFAIK
15:58 colomon yup.
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15:59 matthias_ other constructs I thought about are  my $x; $x = ... while unsuitable($x);  which would be cool to write as  my $x = ... while unsuitable($x)  though I understand that the while-condition probably doesn't know about the $x that I want to initialize :)
15:59 colomon so I guess that is a potential use for my %h .=push(...).  huh.  learn something every day!
16:00 colomon I've got a whistle lesson now, but if no one else has it when I'm done, it's trivially easy to make Hash.push return self.
16:00 PerlJam colomon: I'm adding a test for it now and I'll implement it
16:00 colomon PerlJam++
16:06 dalek roast: 77ad197 | duff++ | S32-hash/push.t:
16:06 dalek roast: [push.t] Hash.push should return a Hash
16:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/77ad1979dc
16:07 PerlJam My computer is überslow this morning for some reason
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16:07 pyrimidine takadonet++ # updates to bioperl6
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16:11 dalek rakudo: 8681daf | perlpilot++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
16:11 dalek rakudo: Make Hash.push return the hash
16:11 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8681daf304
16:12 masak rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say (@a.push: 4, 5).perl
16:12 p6eval rakudo 9b8bad: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4, 5]␤»
16:12 masak PerlJam++ # consistency
16:12 PerlJam Has the rakudo build time gotten slower lately and I've only noticed today?
16:13 matthias_ thank you very much PerlJam++ :) Now I'm gonna send masak my solutions but p4, which I still have to solve (I think it is akin to the "paper strip game" (euler project)...)
16:13 matthias_ left #perl6
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16:14 tadzik masak: hmm, right
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16:18 tadzik takadonet: commit bit given
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16:41 masak rakudo: my @a = "def".comb; my %h.=push( @a Z 0..* )
16:41 p6eval rakudo 8681da:  ( no output )
16:41 masak rakudo: my @a = "def".comb; my %h.=push( @a Z 0..* ); say %h.perl
16:41 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«{}␤»
16:42 masak ah -- that's the change that just went in. :)
16:42 masak (was wondering why matthias_++ solution didn't work locally)
16:42 * masak rebuilds Rakudo
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17:03 * colomon has become unhealthily obsessed with p4
17:04 masak the scope of any such obsession is limited to the next three or so days.
17:04 arnsholt ^_^
17:04 arnsholt Indeed
17:04 masak send in submissions, people! :)
17:04 arnsholt I'll probably submit soon
17:04 arnsholt Just need to finish my p4 solution
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17:05 masak it's also possible to submit solutions one at a time.
17:05 arnsholt True, true
17:05 arnsholt And submit several times
17:05 arnsholt But it has to be PERFECT!
17:05 arnsholt *ahem* =)
17:06 masak std: True, true
17:06 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'true' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
17:06 masak std: True, so
17:06 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/4XxL5YuMgT line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mTrue, so[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
17:06 masak std: so True
17:06 arnsholt std: so True
17:06 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
17:06 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
17:06 masak :)
17:06 arnsholt Indeed
17:07 tadzik wow
17:07 arnsholt Perl poetry won't go out of fashion with Perl 6, evidently =D
17:07 moritz_ so True
17:07 moritz_ :-)
17:07 arnsholt =D
17:09 masak rakudo: sub exclaim { say $^thing.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim 'bam'
17:09 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«BAM!!!␤»
17:09 * masak is easily amused
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17:11 tadzik rakudo: sub exclaim { say $^thing.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim 'bam', 'bam'
17:11 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 2 but expected 1␤  in 'exclaim' at line 1:/tmp/qqs8aOdXQa␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/qqs8aOdXQa␤»
17:12 masak tadzik: if you want slurp behavior, you have to use an explicit signature, I think.
17:12 tadzik rakudo: sub exclaim { say @^nother_thing.join.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim 'bam', 'bam'
17:12 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '@nother_thing'; expected Positional but got Str instead␤  in 'exclaim' at line 1:/tmp/OpKgeM83_M␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/OpKgeM83_M␤»
17:12 tadzik hmmm
17:12 tadzik rakudo: sub exclaim { say *@^nother_thing.join.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim 'bam', 'bam'
17:13 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
17:13 tadzik bah
17:13 tadzik rakudo: sub exclaim { say @_.join.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim 'bam', 'bam'
17:13 moritz_ you can't to self-declared slurpies
17:13 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«BAMBAM!!!␤»
17:13 masak tadzik: what I said.
17:13 tadzik yeah, was just looking for a funky way
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17:15 flussence std: ????? ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... (...).WHAT !!!!!
17:15 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Ternary !! seems to be missing its ?? at /tmp/eM7FvnkqsF line 1:␤------> [32m??? ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... (...).WHAT !![33m⏏[31m!!![0m␤Undeclared name:␤   'ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
17:15 moritz_ rakudo: sub exclaim { say @^nother_thing.join.uc, '!!!' }; exclaim ['bam', 'bam']
17:15 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«BAMBAM!!!␤»
17:15 flussence :( works in rakudo.
17:16 moritz_ ternary parsing in rakudo is not very robust
17:16 flussence std seems to be matching ?? instead of ??? first
17:16 moritz_ std: 1 ?? 2, 3 !! 4
17:16 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Precedence of , is too loose to use between ?? and !!; please use parens around inner expression at /tmp/tsjBC6zJi6 line 1:␤------> [32m1 ?? 2,[33m⏏[31m 3 !! 4[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
17:16 moritz_ rakudo: 1 ?? 2, 3 !! 4
17:16 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "1 ?? 2, 3 "␤»
17:16 flussence wait, not ???
17:16 moritz_ we should start a list with LTA parsing error messages
17:17 flussence std: ??? ?? ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... (...).WHAT !! !!!
17:17 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ?? or redundant prefix ?␤  (to suppress this message, please use space between ? ?) at /tmp/3FG__aflxY line 1:␤------> [32m??? ??[33m⏏[31m ... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... (...).WHAT !! !![0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED
17:17 p6eval ..00:0…
17:17 moritz_ ??? can take an argument
17:17 flussence oh.
17:17 moritz_ rakudo: say (???).()
17:17 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Stub code executed  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/bw_vRGNWJa␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/bw_vRGNWJa␤»
17:17 moritz_ rakudo: say (??? 'foo').()
17:17 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Stub code executed  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/hNVzi4cmgO␤Null PMC access in invoke()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/hNVzi4cmgO␤»
17:17 moritz_ and rakudo ignores it
17:19 TimToady rakudo: 'Feel free to clean up or throw away entirely'.trans('up' => 'away', 'away' => 'up').say; # known bug?
17:19 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Feel free to cleun aw or throp upup entirelp␤»
17:20 sasha joined #perl6
17:20 TimToady I thought someone put LTMish semantics into trans
17:20 masak yeah, I thought so too.
17:20 flussence rakudo: 'Feel free to clean up or throw away entirely'.subst('up' => 'away', 'away' => 'up').say; # does this one work?
17:20 masak TimToady: don't you have to put those in arrays?
17:20 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Feel free to clean up or throw away entirely␤»
17:20 flussence aw.
17:21 masak rakudo: 'Feel free to clean up or throw away entirely'.trans(['up', 'away'] => ['away', 'up']).say
17:21 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Feel free to clean away or throw up entirely␤»
17:21 masak \o/
17:22 masak TimToady: you just need to know the API, that's all :)
17:22 TimToady DWIM!!!
17:22 masak TimToady: you could always improve S05 if you want.
17:22 masak TimToady: I've always felt there's something slightly wanting in just that area...
17:23 TimToady if I always do one think I can never do something else
17:23 TimToady *thing
17:24 plobsing left #perl6
17:24 masak the Pauli exclusion principle of Things People Do :)
17:25 * TimToady is uncertain whether it's exclusive
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17:27 masak rakudo: s:g/ /a/
17:27 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Method 'subst' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/k5CBubyVvk␤»
17:27 masak rakudo: my $_ = 'foo'; s:g/ /a/; say 'alive'
17:27 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol $_ at line 22, near " = 'foo'; "␤»
17:27 masak er.
17:27 masak rakudo: $_ = 'foo'; s:g/ /a/; say 'alive'
17:27 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«alive␤»
17:27 masak std: $_ = 'foo'; s:g/ /a/
17:27 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/Lk7KnyYPsM line 1:␤------> [32m$_ = 'foo'; s:g/ [33m⏏[31m/a/[0m␤    expecting quantifier␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 122m␤»
17:28 * masak submits rakudobug
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17:28 tadzik rakudo: say $_.perl
17:28 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Any␤»
17:28 tadzik rakudo: $_ = 'foo'; s:g/ /a/; say $_.perl
17:28 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«"afaoaoa"␤»
17:29 TimToady it's doing s:g/ '' /a/ as we noted the other day
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17:31 masak yes, I just backlogged over that one.
17:32 masak what it's doing rather than failing isn't really that interesting. it should just fail, at parse time.
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17:45 jnthn rakudo: //
17:45 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null regex not allowed at line 22, near ""␤»
17:45 jnthn rakudo: / /
17:45 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null regex not allowed at line 22, near ""␤»
17:45 jnthn hm.
17:45 masak right, it's only s///
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17:52 tadzik rakudo: my $one = "name"; my $reg = eval "regex { \$<$one>=[ .+ ] }"; say 'alive' # how do I do this?
17:52 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
17:52 masak tadzik: remember that {} interpolates in ""
17:52 masak tadzik: so probably start by escaping them.
17:53 tadzik oh, right
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17:53 tadzik masak: that helped, thanks
17:53 TimToady there oughta be a way to do it without eval
17:53 arnsholt It makes me a bit sad that the UI code for my p4 solution will probably be more complicated than my AI code =)
17:54 TimToady you just need to develop artificial users now
17:54 tadzik TimToady: any idea how?
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18:08 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
18:09 TimToady o/
18:09 pmichaud we create artificial users all of the time.  Those are the ones that know how to debug their programs without us providing useful error diagnostics.
18:09 jnthn o/ pmichaud
18:09 colomon \o
18:10 TimToady std: regex { $($/{'foo'}) = [ .* ] }
18:10 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
18:10 masak pmichaud! \o/
18:11 TimToady std: regex { ( .* ) { $/{'foo'} = $0 }
18:11 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Regex not terminated at /tmp/1p9E3j1LH5 line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mregex { ( .* ) { $/{'foo'} = $0 }[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤    expecting quantifier␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 123m␤»
18:11 TimToady std: regex { ( .* ) { $/{'foo'} = $0 } }
18:11 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
18:11 tzhs left #perl6
18:11 TimToady something like that
18:12 tadzik ah, cute
18:12 tadzik much better, thanks TimToady
18:12 TimToady that's assuming $/ is mutable, of course
18:12 TimToady and ends up in the final Match object
18:12 sasha left #perl6
18:13 TimToady STD currently tends to do that sort of stuff with assignment to $¢<name> though supposedly the cursor is immutable
18:13 masak it feels odd to think of $/ as containing something other than a Match object during parsing.
18:14 justatheory joined #perl6
18:14 pmichaud I thought $/ contained the partially completed match object (or the state of the match as of that point in the regex)
18:15 pmichaud (haven't read backscroll, btw)
18:16 TimToady it's a funny thing to deal with in a match engine where cursors are supposedly immutable; the block has to manufactur a new cursor from the final value of the $/ after the block is called
18:16 TimToady STD is basically cheating on immutability by assigning directly into a cursor
18:17 pmichaud nqp-rx cheats a fair bit on cursors also, although to the external world they appear immutable
18:18 TimToady one almost wishes for versioned immutable objects
18:19 TimToady but that's probably more overhead for small objects than simply copying
18:21 TimToady a sufficiently ropey string implementation might usually provide immutable strings as versioned mappings to ropes
18:22 plobsing left #perl6
18:23 TimToady s/usually/usefully/
18:25 sorear good * #perl6
18:25 sorear pmichaud: why does rakudo do the $/.from > $/.to thing?
18:26 sorear niecza's cursors are quite immutable... when porting STD, lines like $¢.<onlystar> = 1 were one of the biggest issues
18:27 sorear to get things to work I added a slightly ad-hoc extension
18:27 sorear niecza: "" ~~ / $<x> = {2 + 2} /; say $/.<x>
18:27 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«4␤»
18:28 pmichaud sorear: left over from PGE, I suspect
18:28 pmichaud it was just an easy way to indicate a failed match
18:29 sorear niecza has mutable cursoroids deep inside, but they're never exposed to user code; $/ in a regex block is a Cursor created as a snapshot
18:29 plobsing joined #perl6
18:29 TimToady sorear: that's cute, but maybe we should have sugar to do that inside a block
18:30 TimToady s/sugar/API/
18:31 * TimToady thinks about the viability of $¢.=meth
18:32 us874 left #perl6
18:33 sorear masak: As I understand it, $!attribute actually means $( self!attribute ).
18:33 * TimToady now thinks about the general question of whether $foo .= meth guarantees that $foo.WHICH is invariant
18:33 gbacon left #perl6
18:33 sorear it can't.  consider my $foo = "HI"; $foo .= flip
18:33 colomon huh.  I thought it was important that it didn't.
18:33 sorear unless you want to allow "HI" === "IH"
18:34 TimToady but @foo.=method stays the same WHICH
18:34 TimToady doesn't it?
18:34 TimToady well, maybe just as a normal optimization
18:34 TimToady I don't suppose it's guaranteed either
18:35 colomon @foo.=grep certainly doesn't...
18:35 TimToady right
18:35 TimToady I guess if we define .= in terms of assignment, there's no such invariant
18:35 masak sorear: but self!attribute would be a method call, and S12 *specifically* says that private attributes are slots/storage locations, not accessed by methods.
18:36 * masak thinks it probably should be defined by assignment
18:38 diakopter TimToady: I'd be grateful for a comment on masak's comment at 09:54 CST today
18:38 TimToady so that argues for a $¢.=push( x => 2+2 ) inside regex blocks
18:39 TimToady or some such
18:39 TimToady diakopter: I run my irssi in PST :P
18:39 * TimToady is still backlogging in any case
18:39 diakopter oh..
18:40 masak diakopter: what's that in UTC?
18:41 PerlJam UTC++
18:41 diakopter I dunno; it's your thought about access to private attributes & methods to objects other than self (but of the same class as self), in methods of a given class
18:41 TimToady http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2011-01-12#i_3179322
18:41 PerlJam (I'm in CST, but I run my irssi in UTC so I have the same problem as everyone else ... what time was that?)
18:42 diakopter 2.8 hours ago
18:42 masak diakopter: I'm surprised that sorear was the one bringing this up; I generally feel his metamodel and mine are fairly close when it comes to Perl 6 OO.
18:42 pmichaud 9:54 CST = 15:54 UTC
18:42 TimToady I don't think private attributes are that opaque; a class hopefully can trust itself
18:42 pmichaud = 7:54 PST
18:43 masak pmichaud++
18:43 * pmichaud keeps three clocks in his head.
18:43 pmichaud and yes, my irssi runs in UTC :)
18:43 PerlJam pmichaud: because a man with 2 clocks nevers knows what time it it? :)
18:43 diakopter masak: sorear was the one bringing this up?
18:43 masak TimToady: is S12 specific about that? what's the syntax for private attribute access out of self?
18:43 TimToady but it might need to use the trusted syntax, not the self syntax, to get at another object's privates...er...
18:43 pmichaud this question has come up several times before
18:44 pmichaud looking :)
18:44 masak afk
18:44 pmichaud https://github.com/perl6/mu/​blob/master/misc/pm.txt#L76
18:45 * diakopter tries to figure out where r28932 is
18:45 pmichaud it's in S12, iirc
18:46 TimToady also, note that all of these private accessors are really just function calls into the underlying repr; there's no dispatch going on here
18:46 TimToady so yes, these "accessors" are just ways of naming slots and controlling access via the "trusts" mechanism
18:47 PerlJam S12:1319
18:48 diakopter sorry for the question, whose answer I'm sure I knew/read before... there's no __PACKAGE__ alias/macro?
18:48 molaf_ left #perl6
18:48 moritz_ diakopter: 09a7b9b266e3ab13c6ec30ae02ff02a5e7c338e1 in specs repo
18:49 PerlJam diakopter: there's $?PACKAGE
18:49 TimToady diakopter: grep is your friend
18:49 PerlJam s/grep/ack/
18:49 TimToady in this case grep works find because it's in a top-level pod :)
18:49 TimToady *fine
18:50 diakopter moritz_: thanks :)
18:50 PerlJam except that I find I don't use grep anymore  :)
18:50 PerlJam (as I'm almost always looking through directory trees)
18:50 TimToady well, to be sure, I actually use my own ack-ish program that I wrote long ago
18:51 TimToady which I called "dgrep"
18:51 sorear self!attribute doesn't really do dispatch either; in particular it can always be inlined (something I plan to do soonish)
18:51 sorear you don't even need gradual typing
18:51 TimToady I was including that notation in my remarks
18:51 risou left #perl6
18:52 TimToady but it is good to make that explicit :)
18:52 gbacon joined #perl6
18:53 diakopter std: class A { has $!attr; method foo { my $obj = A.new(); say($obj!$?PACKAGE.attr()) } }; say A.new.foo
18:53 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
18:53 diakopter rakudo: class A { has $!attr; method foo { my $obj = A.new(); say($obj!$?PACKAGE.attr()) } }; say A.new.foo
18:53 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?PACKAGE' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/Xo5w5R_VKn:22)␤»
18:54 TimToady how does that parse in STD!?!
18:54 diakopter niecza: class A { has $!attr; method foo { my $obj = A.new(); say($obj!$?PACKAGE.attr()) } }; say A.new.foo
18:54 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical $?PACKAGE in A.foo␤  at Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.ResolveLex (System.String name, System.Int32& uplevel, Boolean core) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
18:54 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.RawAccessLex (System.Str…
18:54 PerlJam TimToady: perhaps you have an infix:<!> somewhere
18:55 sorear that syntax is absurd
18:55 * diakopter agrees with sorear
18:55 TimToady $obj!TrustsMe::slot is the normal syntax, iirc
18:55 PerlJam std: class A { has $!attr; method foo { my $obj = A.new(); say($obj!"$?PACKAGE".attr()) } }; say A.new.foo  # just checking
18:55 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings or to call a quoted method; in Perl 6 please use ~ to concatenate, or if you meant to call a quoted method, please supply the required parentheses at /tmp/onwtXso80q line 1:␤------> [32m my $obj =
18:55 p6eval ..A.new(); …
18:56 diakopter pm's note says there's a .
18:56 TimToady we could, perhaps, make $obj!slot assume the current class, but only if I've had enough coffee, which I haven't.
18:56 diakopter oh wait.
18:56 diakopter I'm blind
18:57 * diakopter would be ephemerally grateful
18:57 TimToady well, a day is a significan period of time
18:57 sorear $obj!"$?PACKAGE".attr means ($obj!"$?PACKAGE").attr
18:57 PerlJam oh, precedence.
18:57 sorear I think you meant $obj!"{$?PACKAGE}::attr", but I'm not convinced that should work
18:58 diakopter sorear: I see now; I got the . wrong; it shoulda been ::
18:58 sorear $obj!$?PACKAGE::attr is right out though
18:58 sorear package names need to be barewords, period
18:59 TimToady it would be a bit of a burden to support symbolic refs on slot names, but the "my class" special case can probably be sugared
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19:00 diakopter std: 2!"$a"
19:00 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $a is not predeclared at /tmp/2IjT356sUZ line 1:␤------> [32m2!"$a[33m⏏[31m"[0m␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings or to call a quoted method; in Perl 6 please use ~ to concatenate, or if you meant to call a quoted method,
19:00 p6eval ..please…
19:00 TimToady then method new could do $obj!slot = if it wanted to
19:00 diakopter Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings or to call a quoted method?
19:01 TimToady hmm, probably assuming there was a . there
19:01 TimToady when there was a !
19:01 diakopter wants the sugar
19:01 * diakopter
19:03 TimToady std: $obj!meth
19:03 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $obj is not predeclared at /tmp/jILbgRc1os line 1:␤------> [32m$obj[33m⏏[31m!meth[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
19:03 TimToady std: my $obj; $obj!meth
19:03 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
19:03 TimToady the sugar's already there, you just have to semanticalize it
19:05 sorear niecza: class Foo { has $.bar = 7; method x { say self!"b{"a"}r" } }; Foo.new.x
19:05 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings or to call a quoted method; in Perl 6 please use ~ to concatenate, or if you meant to call a quoted method, please supply the required parentheses at /tmp/BhRosImVmt line 1:␤------> [32m$.bar
19:05 p6eval ..= 7; method x …
19:05 TimToady we should probably carp at CHECK time if meth isn't a known method in the current class, since it probably indicates an attempt to cross a class boundary
19:05 TimToady niecza: class Foo { has $.bar = 7; method x { say self!"b{"a"}r"() } }; Foo.new.x
19:05 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«7␤»
19:07 TimToady if lookbehinds worked we could check for . there I guess
19:07 TimToady the error is a bit LTA as it stands
19:09 TimToady but the concat warning is going to be crucial for recovering P5 programmers, so we can't just take it out
19:09 arnsholt "recovering P5 programmers" ^_^
19:10 TimToady we have this 12,000 step program, you see
19:11 TimToady niecza: my $a = "a"; class Foo { has $.bar = 7; method x { say self!"b{$a}r"() } }; Foo.new.x
19:11 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«7␤»
19:11 TimToady sorear++
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19:12 TimToady niecza: my $a = "ee"; class Foo { has $.bar = 7; method x { say self!"b{$a}r"() } }; Foo.new.x
19:12 p6eval niecza v1-138-g6e17857: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.Collections.Generic.KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary.␤  at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary​`2[System.String,Niecza.IP6].get_Item (System.String key) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
19:12 p6eval ..Niecza.DynMetaObject.Ge…
19:13 TimToady ooh, explosive hash, should probably be classified as a munition
19:14 * TimToady despises the modern tendency to use exceptions to indicate expected conditions
19:15 TimToady I'm looking at you, Python
19:15 mberends joined #perl6
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19:24 kulp joined #perl6
19:27 diakopter but... return exceptions?
19:27 ashleydev left #perl6
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19:28 PerlJam Everything you do is exceptional!  Who cares if you came in 53rd in a race with 55 people?  You get a trophy anyway!
19:28 fhelmberger left #perl6
19:29 plobsing joined #perl6
19:30 TimToady return exceptions are an exception :P
19:30 dalek niecza: dc92b63 | sorear++ | / (5 files):
19:30 dalek niecza: [v6] Improve timing display, translate NieczaBackendClisp
19:30 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dc92b63004
19:30 TimToady exceptions are great for figuring out how far to unwind the call chain
19:30 TimToady they're not great for returning an "oopsie" value
19:32 koushi joined #perl6
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19:32 koushi joined #perl6
19:33 TimToady "We're sorry, that flight is completely booked.  We will now shoot you."
19:34 TimToady "and everyone else standing in line"
19:34 TimToady "at every counter"
19:34 PerlJam TimToady: Careful ... you might give the TSA some ideas.
19:34 TimToady if they haven't had that idea up till now, I have no hope for them
19:35 kulp left #perl6
19:35 koushi is now known as kulp
19:35 TimToady anyway, excptions are one of the biggest hammers out there that make parallel processing look like a thumb
19:36 Guest91158 left #perl6
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19:59 TimToady phone
20:00 tibzloh left #perl6
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20:18 * PerlJam really wishes that "Python is better than Perl 6" post wouldn't continue to get "air time" on the Internet.
20:18 tadzik this post is hell stupid
20:19 flussence if it was really better, they wouldn't need to try and force the point so much ;)
20:21 PerlJam though the #5 thing in that post makes me think the Perl community (including Perl 5) needs to spend a little time making and marketing "perl distributions".  But I think Perl 6 will have to lead the way in that endeavor.
20:21 tadzik chromatic_x Funny thing is, #perl 6 shipped in Fedora *before* Python 3 did
20:21 tadzik (twitter)
20:22 perigrin Perl 6 lead/can lead the way in a lot of endevours marketting wise.
20:23 perigrin er 'will lead/can lead'
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20:40 sorear hmm.  Is there anything I can do in exchange for the return of the minutes?
20:40 sorear re. phone
20:41 edenc left #perl6
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20:52 Layla_91 joined #perl6
21:03 sorear hello Layla_91
21:06 tadzik seen Eric_Clapton
21:06 aloha Eric_Clapton was last seen in #perl6 4 days 1 hours ago saying "you knocked me on my knees!".
21:07 Layla_91 helo all.. am here just to watch :) who is Eric_Clapton? ..... :S
21:07 tadzik :D
21:07 tadzik this fella singing about some Layla lady
21:08 tadzik Layla_91: wrote some nice Perl 6 recently?
21:08 Layla_91 tadzik: I am preparing to go to the UK for a couple of RHCA exams.. so was a little busy.. :(
21:09 tadzik RHCA?
21:09 dalek niecza: 7905557 | sorear++ | v6/harness:
21:09 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix :$foo parsing
21:09 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/79055572b6
21:10 Layla_91 tadzik: red hat certified architect..
21:10 tadzik oh, cool
21:12 Layla_91 tadzik: I hope so.. I actually want to become a programmer.. but some sysadmin knowledge is ok :)
21:13 tadzik a certificate is a nice thing too
21:14 Layla_91 tadzik: Yeah.. one more thing to hang on the wall :D Did certificates have good use for you?
21:15 plobsing left #perl6
21:15 TimToady my brother-in-law once told me that my sysadmin job was a dead end, but that's how we got Perl :)
21:16 Layla_91 TimToady: are you really larry wall?!!!!!! :-S
21:16 tadzik :D
21:16 TimToady some days I am
21:16 molaf joined #perl6
21:16 flussence he's (larry wall).Str on here
21:17 moritz_ he's rather .Stringy in here :-)
21:17 TimToady the rest of the time I just pretend to be Larry Wall by making up witticisms
21:17 shortcircuit left #perl6
21:18 shortcircuit joined #perl6
21:18 sorear if $name !~~ /::/ { # This bug was just fixed in niecza.  I wonder if it should have warned.
21:19 tadzik Layla_91: well, the only certificate I have is a CAE, and the use it have was giving me the highest grade from English classes on the Uni w/o a need to say a word in English :)
21:19 tibzloh left #perl6
21:19 TimToady sorear: was it trying to match /'::'/ ?
21:20 sorear TimToady: it was supposed to, yes
21:20 sorear but it actually matches more like /''/
21:20 TimToady was it originally a m:p5/::/  ?
21:20 sorear yes
21:20 holzbit joined #perl6
21:20 TimToady well, it is legal, I think
21:21 TimToady it says if LTM matches nothing else, match ''
21:21 TimToady though if we treated it more like a conjunction, we'd get an error
21:21 TimToady std: /|/
21:21 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/0P4oARCHjR line 1:␤------> [32m/|[33m⏏[31m/[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
21:21 TimToady like that
21:22 Layla_91 tadzik: my english is terrible.. I hardly pass my english classes :D But I know Russian, Arabic, and Ukranian.. by the way I bought programming perl (3d ed).. to improve my perl and english skills :D
21:22 tadzik Layla_91: where are you from?
21:23 Layla_91 tadzik: now or born in?
21:23 flussence (your english is better than most people's russian, so we can't really complain :)
21:23 holzbit left #perl6
21:24 tadzik Layla_91: * :)
21:24 tadzik rakudo: say *.WHAT
21:24 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«Whatever()␤»
21:24 Layla_91 tadzik: :D
21:24 TimToady niecza: say *.WHAT
21:24 p6eval niecza v1-139-gdc92b63: OUTPUT«Sub()<instance>␤»
21:25 TimToady hah
21:25 plobsing joined #perl6
21:26 TimToady niecza: say *.HOW
21:26 p6eval niecza v1-139-gdc92b63: OUTPUT«Sub()<instance>␤»
21:26 Layla_91 flussence: Thanks, but you should hear me speaking English xD
21:26 dual left #perl6
21:27 Layla_91 tadzik: currently in jordan (trace my IP :P) born in Russia.. lived in Israel, Turkey, Russia.. never been to the US.. you?
21:28 TimToady niecza: say 42.HOW
21:28 p6eval niecza v1-140-g7905557: OUTPUT«ClassHOW()<instance>␤»
21:28 TimToady niecza: say (*.HOW)(42)
21:28 p6eval niecza v1-140-g7905557: OUTPUT«Sub()<instance>␤»
21:28 TimToady oopsie
21:29 diakopter niecza: say .HOW
21:29 p6eval niecza v1-140-g7905557: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't call method "isa" on unblessed reference at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/Niecza/Actions.pm line 2306.␤Check failed␤»
21:29 diakopter OO
21:29 dual joined #perl6
21:29 tadzik Layla_91: oh, interesting. Born in Poland, still there. Been there and around, never in USA too
21:29 TimToady still using P5 underneath
21:30 sorear TimToady: niecza does whatevercode currying on postfix operators, including postcircumfix:<( )>
21:31 sorear moritz++ has hinted that I should probably excempt that operator
21:31 TimToady perhaps
21:31 sorear like how infix:<=> doesn't curry ever
21:31 diakopter I wonder if irssi's tab completion can be extended to auto-add the ++
21:31 moritz_ diakopter: I'm pretty sure it can
21:31 TimToady the uc ones are really supposed to be treated as macros
21:32 TimToady so it's really a question of macro precedence
21:32 TimToady also, .HOW desugars to something that can't be a straight method call
21:32 TimToady since it has to supply the original object as 1st arg
21:32 sorear it's not a straight method call
21:32 sorear but it's still a curryable operator
21:33 TimToady so it's really macro precedence
21:33 sorear { $^a.HOW } makes sense
21:33 sorear I am not familiar with this use of "prcedence"
21:34 TimToady just as in "order of application"
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21:35 TimToady rakudo is apparently do the .WHAT before it does the *.method transform, so it gets Whatever()
21:35 TimToady this is a place where we'll have to thrash out inter-implementational issues
21:36 moritz_ rakudo cheats horribly :-)
21:38 TimToady Larry the Ref: "In this corner we have Jnthn the Sturdy, and in that corner Sorear the Speedy."
21:39 PerlJam .oO(Everyone's middle name is "the"!)
21:39 TimToady niecza: say *i.WHAT
21:39 p6eval niecza v1-140-g7905557: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical &postfix:<i> in ANON␤  at Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.ResolveLex (System.String name, System.Int32& uplevel, Boolean core) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
21:39 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.RawAccessLex (System.S…
21:40 TimToady rakudo: say *i.WHAT
21:40 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«WhateverCode()␤»
21:40 diakopter some people's first and last names are also "the"
21:40 TimToady I have a jar that says "THE"
21:40 sorear I should probably add a bunch of implementations of operators that just call die() so people don't get those backend failures
21:41 TimToady yes, you should, especially if while doing that you decide it would be easier to implement them instead.  :)
21:41 pmurias_ joined #perl6
21:41 sorear since STD doesn't know how to sorry on unimplemented operators
21:41 sorear hi pmurias_
21:41 pmurias_ sorear: hi
21:42 justatheory joined #perl6
21:42 diakopter at least it doesn't say "the first person singular linking/existential"
21:42 pmurias_ is now known as pmurias
21:42 pmurias sorear: how's the bootstrap
21:42 pmurias ?
21:43 sorear pmurias: v6-niecza passes all tests, although it's still choking on itself
21:43 diakopter (the jar, I mean)
21:43 pmurias tadzik: which city are you from?
21:44 TimToady diakopter: "THE" is just French for "TEA", I'm led to believe
21:44 pmurias sorear: that means the tests are too weak ;)
21:45 tadzik pmurias: warsaw
21:45 diakopter TimToady: oh; I thought it was claiming to be the definitive jar
21:45 kulp left #perl6
21:46 pmurias tadzik: i'm from zielona góra, but i study in wrocław
21:46 kulp joined #perl6
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21:46 TimToady P6 is really an AI in disguise, so not choking on itself is the *main* test.
21:48 tadzik pmurias: are there PM groups there?
21:48 diakopter does AI == Anteperfectus Infinitus ?
21:49 pmurias tadzik: i don't think so
21:50 sorear 13,311 total lines if you count my hacked version of STD.pm6.  I wonder if this is the largest Perl 6 program in existance.
21:50 diakopter er,  Aeternus Imperfectus
21:51 pmurias sorear: and withought STD.pm6?
21:52 envi joined #perl6
21:52 colomon hmmm... seems like it may be on the same scale as Rakudo's source?  though of course, some portion of that is nqp and some is pir.
21:53 moritz_ well, NQP *is* Perl 6... mostly :-)
21:53 amkrankruleuen left #perl6
21:53 sorear pmurias: 6399 fewer
21:53 moritz_ rakudo's src/core/*.pm is 6.9k lines
21:54 Patterner left #perl6
21:54 moritz_ find src/ -name \*.pm | xargs wc -l
21:54 moritz_ => 22.4k
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21:55 moritz_ wait, that counts src/gen/core.pm too
21:55 moritz_ so, minus 7.6k
21:55 moritz_ rakudo: say 22.4 - 7.6
21:55 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«14.8␤»
21:55 moritz_ including grammar and action
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21:55 Layla_91 * I wonder how draw the first picture of Camelia.. as a girl am sure it was a girl ^_^ much different than the camel image on my perl5 book :D
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21:56 TimToady er...
21:57 TimToady or it was drawn by a guy who wanted to make Perl 6 more attractive to girls...
21:57 tadzik TimToady: was that you? :)
21:57 Layla_91 TimToady: Oops :) I guess so :D
21:57 TimToady looks like it worked, at least this time :D
21:58 TimToady I have two daughters who are artists, so I kinda know how to fake it.  :)
21:59 Layla_91 TimToady: But you did a great job :) I really loved it :D there will be a p6 community of girls somday.. you will see B-)
22:01 TimToady I hope so; I also hope you will stick around and help make it so, 'cause just a cartoon won't do it all by itself.  :)
22:03 Layla_91 I will.. :)
22:03 Layla_91 dinner time! good night all :D
22:03 TimToady o/
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22:24 estrabd is now known as estrabd_afk
22:27 [Coke] (every's middle name is the) - coke the curmudgeon?
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22:45 sorear #p5p is talking about MAD being broken
22:47 snarkyboojum 13,311 lines of Perl 6 in Niecza and 14,800 lines or Perl 6 in Rakudo - there's quite a bit of Perl 6 out there! :O
22:47 wolverian whoa, that's a lot.
22:47 wolverian I really really want to migrate already @ work to Perl 6... :)
22:49 kulp left #perl6
22:49 pmurias /connect irc.perl.org
22:49 pmurias sorry
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22:50 pmurias sorear: STD_P5 seems to be more promising for a translator
22:53 alester left #perl6
23:01 diakopter pmurias: if we can prod TimToady enough ;)
23:09 pmurias most of work on STD_P5 doesn't require TimToady
23:10 pmurias it's just changing rules to reflect Perl 5 instead of Perl 6
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23:37 sorear std: /(<?before moo>)/
23:37 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
23:38 sorear this manages to not work in the niecza-compiled std
23:38 sorear Unrecognized regex metacharacter >
23:38 sorear but without the () it works fine
23:40 IllvilJa joined #perl6
23:42 sorear oh, hm, looking at the source it seems niecza is correct and viv isn't
23:43 sorear TimToady: why does Regex.infixstopper use <?before '>'
23:43 sorear TimToady: why does Regex.infixstopper use <?before '>' <-[ \> \) ]> > ?
23:49 colomon rakudo: <A B C D>.reverse.say
23:49 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«DCBA␤»
23:50 colomon rakudo: sub swap-em(@a) { @a.map(-> $a, $b { $b, $a }).flat; } say swap-em(<A B C D>);
23:50 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub swap-e"␤»
23:51 colomon rakudo: sub swap-em(@a) { @a.map(-> $a, $b { $b, $a }).flat; }; say swap-em(<A B C D>);
23:51 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«BADC␤»
23:51 colomon rakudo: sub swap-em(@a) { @a.map(-> $a, $b { $b, $a }).flat; }; say swap-em(<A B C D>).reverse; say swap-em(<A B C D>.reverse)
23:51 p6eval rakudo 8681da: OUTPUT«CDAB␤CDAB␤»
23:52 TimToady sorear: because >> and >) are valid tokens in their own right
23:52 TimToady >> is a Texas »
23:52 TimToady er, well, maybe it's really )>
23:52 TimToady so dunno abou tthat one
23:54 TimToady probably a bug
23:56 sjohnson bugs are cute
23:56 TimToady I will try a before/after with snaptest to see if anything shows up that I've forgotten

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