Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:13 allbery_b I disagree, actually.  RPG makes plenty of sense if you treat it as a batch spreadsheet
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00:13 allbery_b instead of as a standard procedural program
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00:57 colomon ack, my p4 tests take far too long now....
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02:01 sorear the issue definitely seems to be related to $*LEFTSIGIL and list assignment
02:02 sorear I've golfed it down to 8 lines from 12k
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02:05 * diakopter wonders what could go from 12,000 to 8 lines
02:05 diakopter oh, a broken test case
02:05 diakopter heh
02:15 sorear I think I see what's going on here, hehe
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02:20 dalek niecza: 4e9a91d | sorear++ | / (5 files):
02:20 dalek niecza: [v6] Fix my @foo = 1; my $bar = @foo[0] = True misparse
02:20 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4e9a91d63a
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03:12 sorear What build framework would people most like to see Niecza v2 use?
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03:49 sorear ((niecza-compiled-niecza)-com​piled-niecza)-compiled-niecza passes all tests
03:50 colomon \o/
03:50 colomon sorear++
03:55 sorear now all I need is a build system... and so the question
03:55 sorear given all the issues people have been having with odd versions of xbuild, I'm thinking of switching back to make
03:57 colomon And I obviously wasn't able to get the toolchain working for me at all, so I'm no help with the question.  I'll probably take another stab at it over the weekend, for what it's worth....
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04:00 sorear colomon: v2 will have binary distributions.
04:00 colomon sweet!
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04:04 colomon rakudo: my $a = 0 => 21; say $a.perl; say $a > 21;
04:04 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«0 => 21␤maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
04:04 p6eval ..'Cool…
04:05 colomon interesting bug.  most remember to pick it back up in the morning.
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04:13 snarkyboojum rakudo: my $a = 0 => 21; +$a
04:13 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
04:13 p6eval ..'Cool::Num' a…
04:14 TimToady sorear++
04:21 snarkyboojum rakudo: (1=>2).Int
04:21 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
04:21 p6eval ..'Cool::Num' a…
04:22 snarkyboojum doing .Real, or .Rat or .Int etc on a Pair like that seems to eventually cause my perl6 executable to core dump
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04:37 * sorear gives up on doing a portable Makefile for this
04:45 jasonmay sorear: just wondering, have you been to a yapc?
04:47 jasonmay if not (and even if so), you should definitely come to this year's
04:48 jasonmay couple of the nethack guys go
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05:13 moritz_ sorear: ping
05:13 moritz_ aka "good morning" :-)
05:18 sorear jasonmay: no I haven't.
05:18 sorear moritz_: hi, pong.
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05:19 moritz_ sorear: I'd like to make niecza's spectest architecture similar to rakudo's
05:19 moritz_ sorear: ie a file which just holds the names of spectest files known to pass
05:20 moritz_ currently the shell script has the disadvantage of hardcoding paths, and if you forget a \ at the end of the line the rest of the test files aren't run
05:20 moritz_ sorear: what do you think of that?
05:24 sorear moritz_: sounds good
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06:29 dalek niecza: 56c80b0 | sorear++ | t/ (2 files):
06:29 dalek niecza: Merge remote branch 'moritz/spectests'
06:29 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/56c80b0c08
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07:31 aloha jnthn was last seen in #parrot 7 hours ago saying "s/PBCs/PMCs/?".
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08:17 masak morning, #perl6
08:17 sorear hello masak
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08:20 pmurias sorear: re build system, if you want to replace xbuild, Perl (6) seems the best choice
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08:22 sorear There is a chicken and an egg there. :)
08:23 pmurias generally there's a lot of those in a bootstraped compiler ;)
08:24 pmurias the user will have to have a bunch of .NET bytecode to compile niecza for the first time
08:24 sorear What if the user wants to build niecza on a system with only clisp?
08:24 pmurias unless you want to develop the perl 5 or write niecza in a subset supported by v5
08:25 pmurias sorear: compile the build system to clisp ;)
08:26 pmurias sorear: he will have to have the version of niecza bootstrapped to common lisp
08:27 pmurias we will have to drop supporting compilation by p5 niecza at some point
08:27 masak last day today for submitting contest solutions.
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08:29 * sorear wonders how to handle getting the initial compiler
08:32 sorear solution 1: check 6MB of data into git which will change occasionally and bloat the history a lot
08:32 masak that's the nqp-rx route.
08:32 masak seems to work quite well.
08:32 sorear solution 2: require the user to obtain a build from (downloads page, last month)
08:33 sorear this is the mono/ghc/gcc route.
08:34 pmurias and have a file in the repo specifing the version of the initial compiler to download
08:34 masak seems to work quite well, too :)
08:35 pmurias sorear: i think solution 2 is better
08:36 pmurias sorear: if we automate that make could even to the grabbing of the initial compiler automatically
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08:45 sorear here's another crazy idea: use a second git repo to hold the history of niecza binary releases, and then use a submodule to track it from the source repository
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08:46 pmurias sorear: we can try that too and see which option performs better
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08:48 pmurias that is if the bytecode is similiar between different versions or is all of it checkout out and git only hurts
08:50 pmurias sorear: if we wrap that behind perl scripts we can even switch that transparently
08:50 pmurias ;)
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08:53 pmurias sorear: how does the performance of niecza v2 and niecza v1 compare?
08:54 sorear pmurias: v2 is a bit faster
08:55 pmurias that's very good
08:55 sorear with -Bnam and amortized over a largish file, it's 2-3x faster
08:55 sorear but that's the best case
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08:55 pmurias what does -Bnam do?
08:56 sorear "Hello World" takes 8-9 seconds with both versions
08:56 sorear writes the intermediate code, and stops
08:56 sorear for some reason the NAM->CIL step is much faster when run standalone than when called as a subroutine by the compiler
08:56 sorear like 5s versus 45s for STD.nam
08:57 sorear that's one of the things I'd like to fix before v2, if I can figure out what's causing it
08:57 pmurias Hello World takes ~2sec on my machine with the p5 niecza
08:57 sorear !!!
08:57 pmurias on the second run
08:58 sorear ah.
08:58 sorear I was counting the entire process
08:58 sorear in compile-and-run mode
08:58 pmurias me too
08:58 sorear erm, in compile-and-run mode with the p5 niecza there shouldn't be much difference from run to run
08:59 pmurias the first run loads all the files from the disk into the caches
08:59 sorear oh right.
08:59 pmurias .pm's and things
08:59 sorear (v2 is different since v2 compiles the setting on the first run, which it can do twice as fast as p5's)
09:00 pmurias the ~2sec vs 8-9sec could be caused by differences in hardware
09:01 pmurias uni (Logics with counting) &
09:01 sorear I'm used to everyone else having computers 3x faster than me, not 4 :)
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09:02 sorear mm logic.
09:02 sorear fun stuff.
09:11 sorear also niecza-v6 uses TOO MUCH MEMORY
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09:52 masak Perl 6 and Perl 5 parsing: http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=882311
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09:53 masak the only answer I can think of is "yes, things are very dynamic, so you can't get rid of the parser, ever. but don't worry, we've built a nice programming language around it" :P
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10:01 * masak penned a reply
10:01 sorear ERROR: certificate common name `*.github.com' doesn't match requested host name `github.com'.
10:01 sorear fun.
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10:18 dalek niecza: 923eae5 | sorear++ | / (97 files):
10:18 dalek niecza: Redo build system; bootstrapped niecza is live
10:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/923eae547a
10:19 sorear tomorrow I'll integrate tests and versioning with the new Makefile, update the README, and talk to moritz_ about p6eval
10:19 * sorear -> sleep
10:19 masak nice.
10:19 colomon sorear++
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10:45 snarkyboojum dang, niecza's build process has been completely re-written :O
10:45 snarkyboojum insane productivity :)
10:54 snarkyboojum the final two steps of the Makefile which cp to a run/ directory failed, because it the directory didn't exist. mkdir run under the Niecza root and re-running make resulted in a working Niecza.exe :)
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11:04 Fox5600 hey does anyone know it filehandles are really supposed to have methods like abs, exp, log, sin, etc ?
11:04 masak Fox5600: I agree that sounds odd.
11:04 Fox5600 because they do in rakudo
11:05 masak rakudo: say $*IN.abs
11:05 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
11:05 p6eval ..'Cool::Num' a…
11:05 Fox5600 all of then does that
11:05 masak rakudo: say $*IN ~~ Cool
11:05 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:05 masak that's why.
11:05 masak why does IO need to be Cool?
11:05 masak rakudo: say IO ~~ Cool
11:05 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«1␤»
11:06 snarkyboojum saw the same error with (1=>2).Num today
11:07 flussence rakudo: say +$*IN;
11:07 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
11:07 p6eval ..'Cool::Num' a…
11:07 snarkyboojum rakudo: +(1=>2)
11:07 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in
11:07 p6eval ..'Cool::Num' a…
11:07 flussence rakudo: say ~$*IN;
11:07 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«IO()<0xa0102f8>␤»
11:08 flussence well, the number part seems to be the only problem at least.
11:08 Fox5600 rakudo: say $*IN.chr
11:08 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 1862:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 1862:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric' at line 1849:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Num' at line 7361:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::Numeric'
11:08 p6eval ..at li…
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11:58 masak mojibake from the dir() function -- http://twitter.com/VienosNot​es/status/25874069228363776
11:59 masak if anyone's able to reproduce this using a small piece of code, I'm willing to file an RT ticket about it.
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12:08 flussence "open((0x30a1..0x30e1).chrs.Str, :w).say('aaaa'); dir();" does give me garbage on the REPL
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12:10 masak flussence++
12:10 * masak submits rakudobug
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12:13 masak hm. I'm not getting garbage on the REPL. I'm getting that (very long) file name, just as it should look.
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12:18 pmurias what do people use a REPL for?
12:19 flussence I get it with perl6 -e as well... but printing out the .chrs in both and `ls` both show up OK
12:20 arnsholt pmurias: I use it for experimentation
12:20 arnsholt I find it to be more convenient than -e, especially when I'm experimenting with syntax and such
12:21 * masak never got into the habit using the REPL
12:21 arnsholt Me neither, not completely
12:21 arnsholt My Lisp-head friend is completely addicted to his REPL, though
12:22 snarkyboojum I get garbage on the repl - unless I'm misunderstanding what it should print :)
12:23 flussence it *shouldn't* print "ã¡ã¢ã£ã¤ã¥ã¦ã§ã¨ã©ãªã«ã¬ã­ã®ã¯ã°ã±ã²ã³ã´ãµã¶ã·ã​¸ã¹ãºã»ã¼ã½ã¾ã¿ããããããããããããããããããããããããããããããããã ã¡"
12:23 snarkyboojum then I get garbage too :)
12:23 pmurias arnsholt: the Lisp REPLiness seems very awkward and strange to me
12:24 arnsholt How so?
12:26 pmurias i can't really explain "write code to a file and then run it" seems much more convienient then modifing your program from a REPL and then build an executable from the image from time to time
12:26 arnsholt Yeah, it's a bit weird
12:26 pmurias it seems to statefull
12:27 arnsholt But for experimentation, a good REPL is quite nice
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12:29 pmurias i use the lisp REPL for that
12:29 pmurias erlang forces people to use a REPL but i just piped commands to it with cat ;)
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12:31 Persouille hello
12:31 pmurias hi
12:31 Persouille i'm trying to configure ilbot but i don't know where to store the /msg nickserv identify command
12:31 Persouille :)
12:33 masak Persouille: this is #perl6. you'll want to talk to moritz_.
12:33 Persouille oh sorry i thought it was the right channel
12:34 Persouille moritz_,  : can I PM you ?
12:34 masak moritz_ is the right channel :)
12:34 daxim 김정일bot
12:34 Persouille h�h�
12:34 Persouille lol
12:34 Persouille thank you very much
12:34 Persouille :)
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12:36 pmurias masak: the ilbot docs mention that you have to ask moritz_ on #perl6
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12:54 masak pmurias: yes, I had a vague memory of that. still, if moritz_ isn't here, there isn't much the rest of us can do.
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13:15 pmurias masak: based on a look into the source of ilbot what he wanted required changing the source
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13:16 pmurias masak: but he left before i managed to tell him what to change
13:16 takadonet morning all
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13:24 colomon \o
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14:17 dalek specs: ece3202 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
14:17 dalek specs: [S32/Containers] Require &classify's test argument to be Callable.
14:17 dalek specs:
14:17 dalek specs: An arbitrary Matcher may not have much of a notion of a return value.
14:17 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/ece3202c88
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14:27 masak Kodi++
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14:32 masak I also notice that .classify assumes that &test has exactly *one* return value.
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14:33 masak S32 should at least mention what happens when a different number of values are returned.
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14:59 dalek roast: 2167a01 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S0 (3 files):
14:59 dalek roast: More tests for RT #71462 (smartmatching against a type should yield a Bool).
14:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2167a018e6
14:59 dalek rakudo: 7fd3dea | KodiB++ | src/ (4 files):
14:59 dalek rakudo: Made smartmatching with something other than a regex on the RHS return a Bool.
14:59 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7fd3dea4a4
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15:07 Kodi Is there a special reason why some of the @-parameters in the functions at the bottom of Any-list.pm *aren't* slurpy?
15:12 colomon errr... can you pass a regular @parameter in instead of a slurpy?
15:12 colomon rakudo: say roll(3, <a b c d e f g h>)
15:12 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«bae␤»
15:13 Kodi rakudo: say first * %% 2, 1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10;
15:13 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 7 but expected 2␤  in 'first' at line 1816:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/u_SPyx2Y0Y␤»
15:13 Kodi rakudo: say first * %% 2, (1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10);
15:13 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«4␤»
15:14 colomon for sure it seems like grep and first should be the same!
15:14 Kodi rakudo: .say for grep * %% 2, 1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10;
15:14 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«4␤10␤»
15:14 Kodi colomon: That's what I was thinking.
15:15 colomon that's LHF for sure.
15:15 Kodi "LHF"?
15:15 colomon low hanging fruit
15:15 colomon easy to pick
15:15 Kodi Ah.
15:19 jnthn Good afty, #perl6.
15:19 colomon \o
15:19 takadonet jnthn: yo
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15:21 colomon rakudo: .say for grep * %% 2, (1, 3, 4, 7, 9, 10);
15:21 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«4␤10␤»
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15:23 flussence rakudo: (100..110).ords.say
15:23 p6eval rakudo a350ff: OUTPUT«49484832494849324948503249485132494852324​948533249485432494855324948563249485732494948␤»
15:23 flussence for some reason the longer that range is, the slower each separate .say is... I don't get it.
15:24 flussence doing 100..200 on my laptop I can see the numbers printing out one at a time, 100..110 looks a lot quicker.
15:24 ashleydev left #perl6
15:27 jnthn Ouch
15:27 jnthn That sounds...bad.
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15:28 colomon On mine, I'd say 100..110 is about twice as fast as that much of 100..200.  Just eyeballing it.
15:29 awwaiid joined #perl6
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15:31 colomon actually, that's not that surprising, is it?
15:31 Axius left #perl6
15:31 jnthn colomon: Why should a longer range make things slower?
15:31 colomon it's not a lazy operation, so going into .ords requires converting the entire range to a string
15:31 flussence the .ords method itself doesn't appear to be doing anything visibly wrong: gather self.comb, take .ord
15:31 jnthn Oh, I think I'm missing some context. :)
15:31 colomon afk
15:32 flussence colomon: it has the same slowdown if I ~ the range first
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15:34 colomon flussence: right, because that's doing the exact same thing.
15:35 colomon Maybe it's just my imagination, but I'd say (100..200).map(*.ords).say  is much faster
15:35 colomon s/much/noticeably/
15:35 plobsing left #perl6
15:38 colomon I don't know exactly what is going on, but I'm guessing what you're seeing has something to do with ugly slowness in ~(Range) and comb.
15:39 flussence ok, I've done a bit more experimenting: if I run `for i in {10..20}; do echo $i; time perl6 -e "(' ' xx $i ** 2).map(*.ord).say" > /dev/null; done`, the time is more or less constant, but if I use .comb, it becomes exponential.
15:40 flussence that is to say, "(' ' x 200).comb».ord.say" is much slower than if I'd done "(' ' xx 200)».ord"
15:40 colomon oh!
15:41 flussence so yeah, it's probably that bit causing it.
15:41 colomon in comb: (my $m = self.match($matcher, :c($c))
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15:41 colomon that's got to be almost the slowest possible way to generate one character at a time from a string.
15:42 colomon and...
15:42 colomon calling self.match doesn't actually convert self to a Str, does it?
15:42 colomon (99% sure the answer must be no)
15:43 flussence no idea, but I'll go with your 99%.
15:43 colomon in which case, that (my $m = self.match($matcher, :c($c)) in the loop to generate each char in .comb converts the Range to a Str each time through.
15:43 flussence ouch.
15:43 jnthn Ouch
15:44 jnthn It we're calling .match on it, strinfigying self first is maybe a good idea?
15:44 colomon seems like.
15:44 colomon we need to set up a benchmark so we know if we're talking sense or not.
15:44 colomon and then the optimization is pretty obvious.
15:45 plobsing joined #perl6
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16:11 masak people, make sure you send in your trailing solutions to the Perl 6 Coding Contest today!
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16:23 masak aloha: hi :)
16:24 colomon masak: I'm busy writing the explanatory e-mail for my second p4 submission.
16:25 wolverian left #perl6
16:27 PerlJam good * #perl6
16:28 masak colomon: I mostly ignore email content outside of the .zip files.
16:29 PerlJam (obvious optimizations)++   (reading scroll back)
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16:40 dalek rakudo: 9b41b8f | KodiB++ | src/core/Match.pm:
16:40 dalek rakudo: Whoops, forgot to commit this.
16:40 Eevee joined #perl6
16:40 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9b41b8f3f4
16:41 cogno left #perl6
16:41 [Coke] KodiB, yah, but what is that commit for?
16:42 [Coke] clearly you remembered to commit it now. ;)
16:44 Kodi [Coke]: I couldn't think of a better description, really. It may not even have any net effect. :P
16:49 * masak .oO( a null commit? )
16:49 ashleydev joined #perl6
16:52 PerlJam masak: a Mu commit
16:52 jedai_ joined #perl6
16:52 jnthn :P
16:52 Kodi PerlJam: That just about describes it.
16:52 PerlJam or maybe a Nil commit, but "Mu commit" fits better with the content of the commit :)
16:53 jedai left #perl6
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17:02 [Coke] muck omit
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17:10 TimToady phenny: tell sorear make fails on the last step if run/ doesn't exist yet
17:10 phenny TimToady: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
17:11 TimToady oh, already reported by snarkyboojum++
17:12 TimToady yay for redundancy
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17:35 dalek roast: ef6df94 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S32-list/ (2 files):
17:35 dalek roast: Additions and fudging for slurpy &first and &uniq.
17:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ef6df94697
17:35 acrussell joined #perl6
17:36 dalek rakudo: 89ff888 | KodiB++ | src/core/Any-list.pm:
17:36 dalek rakudo: [core/Any-list] Added slurpy versions of &first and &uniq.
17:36 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/89ff88808c
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17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 10b0b0b | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Stub in a DispatcherSub PMC to be used for subs that serve as dispatchers.
17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/10b0b0b27f
17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: bb3de19 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Port the ops related to multiple dispatch; the one that actually does the dispatch is incomplete, but the rest are complete (though untested).
17:41 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/bb3de19cf7
17:42 takadonet left #perl6
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17:43 dalek bench-scripts: c15faa0 | (Solomon Foster)++ | non-str-comb.pl:
17:43 dalek bench-scripts: Add benchmark passing a non-string type to comb.
17:43 dalek bench-scripts: review: https://github.com/perl6/ben​ch-scripts/commit/c15faa0a3d
17:46 Kodi left #perl6
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18:19 dalek niecza: 430e593 | sorear++ | run/.gitignore:
18:19 dalek niecza: Make sure obj/ and run/ are recorded in git GH-31 snarkyboojum++
18:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/430e593fa3
18:21 diakopter * *
18:22 jnthn *, diakopter
18:22 diakopter :)
18:22 * moritz_ back
18:22 * colomon still here
18:25 colomon compiling my attempt at optimizing .comb
18:27 colomon really, it's more of a de-pessimizing
18:30 colomon say [+] (100..200).comb>>.Int;  # before: 8.7s  after: 1.9s
18:30 jnthn colomon++
18:31 moritz_ \o/
18:31 [Coke] nice.
18:33 colomon about to start spectest run.
18:34 MayDaniel left #perl6
18:35 dalek specs: 308c599 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
18:35 dalek specs: redesign of classify, add categorize
18:35 dalek specs:
18:35 dalek specs: * classify should take any arity-1 mapper including hash or array
18:35 dalek specs: * classify always assumes 1 return value from the mapper
18:35 dalek specs: * a function that assumes a list value from the mapper is needed
18:35 dalek specs: * that function is called categorize, a bigger name for a slower function
18:35 dalek specs:     (it is less efficient than classify since it must loop over mapper values)
18:35 dalek specs: * both classify and categorize now return a hash, since it's stupid to create
18:35 dalek specs:     a hash, return its pairs, only to recreate an identical hash outside,
18:35 dalek specs:     and it's trivial to extract the pairs from a hash if you need them.
18:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/308c599459
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 194180d | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Bring the various multiple dispatch and signature parsing changes introduced in JnthnNQP into the nqp-rx/nom grammar.
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/194180db17
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: d3290da | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Actions for {*}.
18:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d3290da0b9
18:38 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 2f51f68 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
18:38 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Pull the old meta-model's handling of method_def out into something we can easily toss later. (Can't quite toss it yet; grammar is not using 6model yet, and there are grammars with methods within nqp-rx itself, so removing it now would break the bootstrap.)
18:38 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2f51f68a29
18:38 rgrau left #perl6
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18:40 diakopter wheh
18:43 cogno joined #perl6
18:52 * jnthn remembers he should probably eat as well as hack. bbs. :)
18:52 TimToady be happily nominative
18:54 colomon made homemade sushi (no raw fish, alas) today, for the first time in years.
18:55 cogno left #perl6
18:56 [Coke] yum.
18:57 * [Coke] makes plans to go eat a big bowl of sashimi tomorrow.
18:58 Fox5600 left #perl6
18:59 moritz_ (homemad tasty food)++
18:59 moritz_ *made
19:02 MayDaniel joined #perl6
19:05 colomon homemad seems just about right
19:05 colomon how are things going today, moritz_?
19:05 moritz_ colomon: chaotic
19:06 moritz_ I nearly collapsed during the surgery, and had to leave
19:06 colomon you okay?
19:07 moritz_ and then the epidural anesthesia didn't work
19:07 colomon ooo, ouch.
19:07 moritz_ so they had to knock her out
19:07 moritz_ and the baby breathed, but not enough
19:07 moritz_ so it needed artificial respiration (and still does)
19:08 * colomon hugs moritz_++
19:08 moritz_ thanks
19:08 TimToady yow, that sucks
19:08 moritz_ wife is recovering, baby is stable
19:08 [Coke] hugme: hug moritz_
19:08 * hugme hugs moritz_
19:08 moritz_ I'm exhausted, but otherwise OK
19:09 [Coke] don't let her hear you say that. :)
19:09 TimToady well, you know we all expect you to keep your priorities straight wrt your family, so if you have to cheat anyone of your time, cheat us.
19:10 colomon amen
19:10 moritz_ TimToady: sure. But #perl6 is not just time drain, but also recovery for me
19:10 colomon (though I did find that #perl6 was a happy relief during long hours of baby rocking.)
19:11 sorear good * #perl6
19:11 phenny sorear: 17:10Z <TimToady> tell sorear make fails on the last step if run/ doesn't exist yet
19:12 vmspb joined #perl6
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19:15 * sorear hugs moritz_ too
19:15 mberends joined #perl6
19:17 moritz_ thanks
19:17 skangas left #perl6
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19:25 moritz_ oh, has niecza changed from xbuild to make?
19:25 TimToady mostly
19:25 TimToady still a bit rough
19:26 * moritz_ tries
19:26 skangas left #perl6
19:26 skangas joined #perl6
19:26 moritz_ sorear: needs to be updated in README.pod
19:27 skangas left #perl6
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19:27 skangas left #perl6
19:29 moritz_ the first time I run run/Niecza.exe I get a warning from the setting
19:29 moritz_ Potential difficulties: $p is declared but not used at /home/moritz/p6/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 903:
19:29 diakopter (me2 on windows, a day or two ago)
19:29 moritz_ ------> sub take(\⏏$p) { # should be \|$p
19:30 * jnthn back
19:30 skangas joined #perl6
19:31 jnthn moritz_: Congrats on becoming a father, and best wishes to you and your (now slightly bigger) family. :-)
19:31 dalek rakudo: 9f6a678 | colomon++ | src/core/Cool-str.pm:
19:31 dalek rakudo: Make a string copy of ~self to work with in Cool.comb, so that repeated calls to .match do not do ~self internally each time.
19:31 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9f6a678811
19:31 moritz_ jnthn: thanks
19:32 dalek niecza: e23237d | sorear++ | Makefile:
19:32 dalek niecza: On second thought, don't pass -I to bootstrap
19:32 dalek niecza:
19:32 dalek niecza: This means the compiler has to cope with an old setting, but the
19:32 dalek niecza: setting need not cope with an old compiler.
19:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e23237d990
19:32 dalek niecza: 4539bcd | sorear++ | README.pod:
19:32 dalek niecza: Update README with new build info
19:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4539bcd3ab
19:36 colomon flussence++: optimization suggested by your (100..200).comb case now in Rakudo.  :)
19:37 flussence \o/
19:40 * sorear wonders if a "get compiler base directory" function makes any sense in standard Perl 6
19:41 moritz_ sorear: what would you use it for?
19:41 orafu left #perl6
19:41 moritz_ I mean, what would a Perl 6 programmer use it for?
19:41 orafu joined #perl6
19:44 colomon flussence: Hmmm... I"ll be the exact same thing happens in split, too.  And probably elsewhere.
19:45 HarryS left #perl6
19:57 _twitch joined #perl6
19:58 * sorear is annoyed at how coupled niecza is to the CLR
19:58 _twitch left #perl6
19:59 diakopter :P
20:00 sorear like, you run Niecza.exe, it has to find lib/ somewhere
20:00 sorear so it does Q:CgOp { (box Str (rawcall get_BaseDirectory (rawscall System.AppDomain.get_CurrentDomain))) }.IO.append("..").append("lib").realpath
20:01 sECuRE left #perl6
20:02 moritz_ so embed it into a NIECZA::base_dir class
20:02 moritz_ s/class/sub/
20:02 moritz_ and provide a facility for other backends to override it
20:07 sECuRE joined #perl6
20:09 dalek rakudo: d5b9d90 | moritz++ | src/core/Pair.pm:
20:09 dalek rakudo: Pair.Numeric
20:09 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d5b9d90ee7
20:12 colomon moritz_++ # elegant solution to the "How to Numify a Pair?" question.
20:13 moritz_ well, better than infinite recursion :-)
20:21 flussence or "method Numeric { 2 }"
20:21 * flussence ducks
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20:28 dju_ left #perl6
20:28 flussence spectest passed on one machine, running it on my slow one now. wonder if it'll break sub-2h this time...
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: e0ac587 | jonathan++ | src/pmc/dispatchersub.pmc:
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: s/inherits/extends/ for PMC inheritance. D'oh.
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e0ac5873d0
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 08ccc35 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix a name-o that made most of the multi-dispatch related ops busted.
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/08ccc356c2
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 75cf4dc | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Align nqp-rx/nom's method_def more closesly with the nqpclr one. This gets setup of proto methods - at least at the code generation level - in shape; the * or {*} also calls the stub that will eventually enter the multi-dispatcher.
20:31 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/75cf4dcb56
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20:35 rindolf Hi all.
20:35 rindolf Building Rakudo git HEAD ( 9f6a67881173bcedaf63603e1cfd485a08b112db ) fails here.
20:35 rindolf x86-64 Linux.
20:36 jnthn o/ rindolf
20:36 jnthn rindolf: Please could you paste the error it fails with?
20:36 mberends moritz_++ # best wishes for wife and baby too
20:36 rindolf jnthn: sure, wait a sec.
20:37 jnthn o/ mberends :)
20:37 mberends yo jnthn :)
20:38 rindolf jnthn: http://pastie.org/1461482
20:40 plobsing rindolf: looks like a linking problem
20:40 orafu left #perl6
20:40 orafu joined #perl6
20:41 plobsing run 'nm /home/shlomif/Download/unpack/perl/Perl6/raku​do/git/rakudo/parrot_install/lib/libparrot.so | grep Parrot_api_string_export_ascii'
20:42 plobsing it should give a result like '<digits> T Parrot_api_string_export_ascii'
20:43 rindolf plobsing: it doesn't return anything.
20:45 kboga left #perl6
20:45 plobsing then your parrot is messed up somehow. is this build failure from a clean checkout? if not, try removing parrot_install and rebuilding.
20:47 dalek nqp-rx/nom: d7ccb41 | jonathan++ | src/pmc/dispatchersub.pmc:
20:47 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Make sure we mark the dispatchees.
20:47 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d7ccb41d5a
20:50 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 25f7ff9 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
20:50 dalek nqp-rx/nom: First piece of the multi-method handling in NQPClassHOW. Direct copy-paste from nqpclr's NQPClassHOW.
20:50 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/25f7ff934e
20:51 rindolf plobsing: OK.
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21:10 pmurias hi
21:10 rindolf Hi pmurias
21:11 dalek nqp-rx/nom: c6b29ec | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
21:11 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Port over incorporate_multi_candidates. No algorithmic changes, just VM munging (yes, I hope to have the nqpclr and nqp-rx versions the same some day soon - for now this is not too far off).
21:11 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/c6b29ec1f1
21:14 bacek left #perl6
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21:21 moritz_ mberends: thanks
21:21 rindolf Hmm.... github is slow here.
21:25 pmurias sorear: why do you print out info in grey?
21:25 sorear because I don't know how not to
21:25 sorear hi pmurias
21:26 moritz_ TimToady: re http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=882415 don't type declarations change the grammar too?
21:26 pmurias so what does that?
21:26 moritz_ well, more like the data the drives the parsing
21:26 pmurias s/does/causes
21:26 TimToady moritz_: read the parenthetical remark
21:27 pmurias sorear: if it's something beyond our control we could reset the terminal after the offending code
21:28 moritz_ TimToady: right
21:28 * moritz_ should really go to bed
21:28 TimToady alternately, constants are degenerate type declarations :)
21:28 Tedd1 joined #perl6
21:28 pmurias TimToady: is there a way to disable the unused parameter warning?
21:29 rindolf I gave up on git cloning the parrot repository.
21:29 rindolf It's too slow here.
21:29 rindolf I guess my ISP sucks again.
21:29 rindolf Hi TimToady
21:29 TimToady in STD, put #OK not used
21:29 TimToady dunno if sorear's clone does that though
21:29 TimToady would be low hanging fruit if it doesn't
21:29 sorear it does.
21:30 sorear fwiw, anything STD parses but niecza/src/tryfile doesn't, I consider a bug
21:30 TimToady or, if you really don't want to use the parameter, just put the sigil
21:30 sorear though tryfile is probably a bit bitrotted after the last two weeks
21:31 TimToady std: sub foo ($a) {...}
21:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/2Nj3DJbUS6 line 1:␤------> [32msub foo ([33m⏏[31m$a) {...}[0m␤ok 00:01 120m␤»
21:31 TimToady std: sub foo ($) {...}
21:31 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
21:32 TimToady std: sub foo (:a($)) {...}
21:32 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
21:32 TimToady std: sub foo ($a) {...}  #OK
21:32 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
21:33 spq1 left #perl6
21:34 pmurias sorear: i get unable to resolve method keys in class Array when doing mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1'
21:36 sorear *%#@
21:36 sorear I think I just heard the death of the project
21:38 TimToady the flag still seems to be waving...
21:38 slavik1 joined #perl6
21:39 pmurias sorear: ?
21:40 pmurias sorear: corrupted bootstrap?
21:41 TimToady maybe it means that we have to turn Perl 6 into C# for it to work...
21:42 TimToady CLR seems to have this effect on other languages too  :)
21:42 TimToady if it's only a currupted bootstrap, sorear++ has recovered from those before
21:44 TimToady or maybe he thinks mono is Just Too Flakey now...
21:45 TimToady or maybe he just needs to take a step back and breathe for a bit
21:46 * TimToady is far too good at "maybes"
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21:50 rokoteko Haha. yea. start building perl6 designed to run on MS windows, which 80% of the world uses. :)
21:52 rokoteko erm. well.. 80% percent of the cyberspace.
21:52 jnthn rokoteko: AFAIK, Niecza *does* run on Windows too. As do various other Perl 6 implementation efforts. :)
21:52 plobsing rokoteko: rakudo runs on windows SFAIK
21:52 rokoteko jnthn: hey, I have absolutely no idea. I barely know perl6.
21:53 jnthn plobsing: It sure does - because I do just about all my development on Windows. :)
21:53 rokoteko I got debian on my work laptop. :)
21:54 sorear pmurias: right, something is seriously wrong.
21:54 plobsing then you are one of the lucky 20% or so
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21:54 sorear fwiw mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1' works for me
21:54 TimToady incompatible mono?
21:54 colomon To be fair, I've never managed to successfully build Rakudo on my Windows box.
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21:54 jnthn colomon: Really? Oddness.
21:55 TimToady or something different in %*ENV?
21:55 jnthn colomon: Unless you did it with Cygwin, where I can well imagine the Rakudo build is very flakey.
21:56 TimToady sorear: as another datapoint, I get pmurias's error here too
21:56 TimToady I'm running 64-bit, if it makes any difference
21:56 diakopter \/
21:56 sorear rokoteko: Until yesterday, niecza was a mono-only C# program
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21:56 colomon jnthn: I tried building it with whatever it tried to use.  I've got Cygwin and two different versions of Visual Studio on the machine.
21:56 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
21:56 jnthn colomon: Ah, OK.
21:57 sorear TimToady: does mono boot/run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1' work?
21:57 jnthn colomon: I've found ActivePerl + Visual Studio + build from the Visual Studio command prompt = success.
21:57 TimToady sorear: no, I get pmurias's error
21:57 rokoteko sorear: wasn't niecza the perl6 implementation of perl6?
21:57 diakopter colomon: wfm same setup as jnthn...
21:57 pmurias sorear: try make in git clean'ed mono
21:57 TimToady pmurias: are you 32 or 64-bits?
21:57 pmurias 32
21:58 sorear pmurias: "make in git clean'ed mono" ?
21:58 rokoteko I should probably follow more closely to the discussion to get a hang of it. :)
21:58 TimToady alternately, we could have something from prior builds out here in the hinterlands
21:58 pmurias mono boot/run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1' works
21:58 pmurias mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1' works
21:58 pmurias s/works/doesn't work/
21:58 pmurias sorear: git clean removed all the untracked files
21:59 TimToady sorear: would the whole backtrace help you?
21:59 pmurias git clean -f;make;mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1'
21:59 plobsing colomon: there are instructions on how to set up parrot on windows @ http://trac.parrot.org/par​rot/wiki/Platforms/Windows . building rakudo is probably much more platform-independant.
21:59 pmurias mono boot/run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 1' works
22:00 pmurias sorear: did you git push?
22:00 jnthn plobsing: Until we accidentally something platform dependent in any of the C bits of Rakudo (binder/dynops/dynpmcs) anyways. :)
22:00 colomon plobsing: thanks.  It would be nice to have Rakudo working on that machine, it's a powerful machine that spends most of its time these days running Lacuna Expanse while I do development work on my OS X laptop.
22:00 TimToady boot/run/Niecza.exe works here too
22:01 plobsing jnthn: you have far less C than parrot. assume an identical C-code defect rate.
22:01 diakopter 'maybe it means that we have to turn Perl 6 into C# for it to work...
22:01 diakopter '
22:01 leprevost_ left #perl6
22:01 * diakopter wants to add that to a quotebot somewhere
22:02 jnthn plobsing: :)
22:02 sorear pmurias: Does git clean make things better or worse?
22:04 dalek niecza: 4b9b5fa | sorear++ | lib/SAFE.setting:
22:04 dalek niecza: Fix obsolescent use of (l) in &take
22:04 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4b9b5faf19
22:04 dalek niecza: ff486bd | sorear++ | / (5 files):
22:04 dalek niecza: Add abstract primitives for path and bit ops
22:04 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ff486bdc15
22:05 TimToady git clean does not help here
22:05 dalek niecza: 2c25f13 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
22:05 dalek niecza: Add bit and path ops to setting
22:05 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2c25f133b2
22:06 sorear ok, let me try a build from a clean checkout :/
22:07 TimToady traceback at https://gist.github.com/780361
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22:11 pmurias sorear: git clean simultates a clean checkout
22:12 orafu left #perl6
22:12 TimToady after pulling latest push, the traceback is longer
22:14 * [Coke] realizes he's currently at home on a windows laptop and about to "checkout" from work, and should probably try to build rakudo.
22:14 orafu joined #perl6
22:14 TimToady gist of longer traceback: https://gist.github.com/780377
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22:18 TimToady running Mono JIT compiler version 2.6.7 (Debian 2.6.7-3ubuntu1), Architecture: amd64
22:19 TimToady pmurias: what's your version of mono?
22:19 sorear I cannot reproduce from a clean checkout
22:19 TimToady I'm guessing version skew
22:20 sorear 2.9/869fd03 ...
22:20 sorear I need to set up some kind of multiversion mono env
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22:26 TimToady maybe we just need to run with a new mono, like we try to do with parrot
22:27 diakopter http://www.chacha.com/quest​ion/do-monkeys-eat-parrots
22:28 colomon Does niecza work with .NET?  It just occurred to me I spent all that time trying to get a version of mono that worked, and never considered using one of my .NET installs...
22:29 diakopter a snapshot of a built one worked for me yesterday
22:30 diakopter I haven't tested whether it builds lately
22:30 sorear the build process requires a unix toolchain (wget, gmake, cp, rm, unzip)
22:31 sorear the v1.5 snapshot from the github downloads page should work though
22:31 diakopter surely the Makefile could be made dmake/nmake compatible
22:32 colomon sorear++.  I'll try it when I'm not up in the train room watching the little guy play with his Little Blue Engine,  Santa Fe Super Chief, and Hiro.
22:32 diakopter (and perl/extensions instead of the rest)
22:32 sorear I'm not entirely sure I can live without $(patsubst)  :)
22:33 * sorear notices that his mono is over a month old, fixes
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22:40 pmurias sorear: 2.8.1
22:40 pmurias sorear: did the mono from run/ work for you?
22:40 diakopter O.O
22:46 pmurias sorear: the one in boot/ work for me too
22:47 pmurias sorear: what we could use is do have niecza automatically build and tested on different mono versions
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23:14 sorear pmurias: yes, run/ works for me.
23:14 sorear pmurias: that would be nice though I still need to debug this somehow
23:23 shi left #perl6
23:25 * [Coke] goes "woof" at trying to build parrot on windows.
23:25 * [Coke] will try to clean that up a bit for strawberry perl users this weekend.
23:25 jnthn [Coke]++
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23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 0499684 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Turns out we need some kind of lightweight signature object just for multis, to store the types but also definedness constraints (thus can't easily use an RPA). This should do it for now.
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/049968457a
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 3a7f05b | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add an op for putting a multi sig in place.
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3a7f05bdc6
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: d34f3a0 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Emit code that builds and installs multisig objects that contain the type and definedness constraint for each multi candidate.
23:36 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/d34f3a0892
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23:56 pmurias sorear: why are you using an development mono 2.9.*? 2.8.2 is the stable one?
23:56 mkramer1 left #perl6
23:59 sorear pmurias: 2.9.* has very valuable bugfixes

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