Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:01 Util When it works with ..^ , I will show it off to Atlanta.pm; "Infinity minus one" is a cool concept! (Yes, I know it is really "Whatever", but they will just see it as an infinite list)
00:01 masak in this case, it's more like "the length (of the thing indexed) minus one"... :)
00:01 masak of course, if the array is infinite... :)
00:03 Util Yes, and I love how the use of * there devolves/dovetails to the new [*-1] manner of reverse indexing.
00:03 Util (in re: in this case... , not "array is infinite") I am a slow typist
00:07 lue hello again #perl6 o/
00:08 jnthn o/ lue
00:08 masak Util: actually, it was [*-1] that led to the Whatever star having a role as an autocurry device.
00:09 * lue considers continuing learning C++ today, and decides Bool::True
00:10 masak lue: will you be writing some C++ code?
00:11 Util masak: Yes, historically true. I am preoccupied by elements of the Perl 6 design that "dovetail" (for a future blog post); I did not mean to imply causality.
00:11 lue It's what my GCC frontend project will likely be in, so I decided I may wish to learn it :) https://rdstar.wordpress.com/2011/​01/22/some-thoughts-on-p6-on-gcc/
00:12 masak lue: yep, I saw that one.
00:12 masak lue: does that mean you'll be writing a Perl 6 parser engine in C++?
00:13 masak s/parser/grammar/
00:13 masak Util: sounds like a nice post.
00:15 lue If all goes well, yes. What the project sets out to do is turn Perl 6 code into the AST that GCC uses to compile to various architectures.
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00:16 masak lue: making something the size of STD in C++ is quite a big undertaking. I'd recommend trying to interface with STD if possible.
00:19 lue I'll cheat^W utilize as much as I can :D
00:21 masak yes. and do consider it "utilizing" rather than "cheating" :)
00:22 * jnthn is utilizing Parrot's nqp-rx to help on the way to a bootstrapped nqpclr :)
00:22 jnthn It's easier to only have to invent one piece at a time. :)
00:23 masak lue: Andrew Shitov is the only one I know who has written a Perl 6 parser in C++, using a generics framework 'boost' that contains a parser library. he did a very-very small subset of STD.
00:24 jnthn And it was bloody fast. :)
00:24 masak lue: but the subset he did, he did all the way (without using gcc). he had Perl 6 code translated to C++, and then executed real fast.
00:24 masak lue: his code is still out there somewhere.
00:25 masak lue: http://talks.shitov.ru/ppt/b​apm2009/faster-perl6-en.pdf
00:25 masak 'night, #perl6.
00:25 jnthn heh, I saw taht talk
00:25 jnthn o/ masak
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00:32 lue rakudo: sub is_prime($n) { for 2 .. $n - 1 -> $d { return 0 unless $n % $d; }; return 1; }; say is_prime(15511);
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00:32 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«1␤»
00:33 lue it's gotten a *little* faster since the talk [microscopically faster, but still :)]
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00:44 jnthn Enough for today. I *think* I'm on track to have nqp-rx grammars using 6model tomorrow. With a bit of luck, I'll even be able to push that change into the bootstrap.
00:45 Tene :D
00:45 Tene jnthn: how much do you have working on CLR and JVM these days?
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00:46 jnthn Tene: Best way I can think to answer is that the CLR version passes everyting in https://github.com/jnthn/6model/tree/master/t/nqp
00:47 jnthn Tene: JVM version is way further behind in terms of test coverage, but has potential to catch up fast.
00:47 Tene 'k, thanks :)
00:48 jnthn The JVM version managed for the first time to init the meta-model and a mini setting and say hello world a week ago. :)
00:48 jnthn mberends++ for that :)
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00:51 lue jnthn: Is my understanding of 6model correct, in that I could potentially use it in my P6-for-GCC project, or is my understanding way off on what it is?
00:52 lue The way I understand it, 6model is a sort of interface to use in creating a Perl 6 compiler.
00:53 jnthn lue: 6model is a meta-model design
00:53 jnthn lue: That is, it is a way to handle the various object oriented functionality that Perl 6 needs.
00:54 jnthn lue: It's implemented so far in varying states of completeness on Parrot, the CLR and JVM.
00:54 jnthn So in theory it's fairly portable. In practice, how hard it is to port it depends on what your target has to offer.
00:56 lue So it makes the OOP aspects of P6 easier to implement? [ I'm only making sure I'm getting it ]
00:57 jnthn Well, only after you've implemented it. :)
00:58 sorear Tene: I have a complete STD parser running on the CLR
00:58 jnthn It gives you a design that I believe will cover the stuff Perl 6 needs in terms of OO.
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01:02 dalek niecza: 3e85a71 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
01:02 dalek niecza: Operator handling unification (postfix)
01:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3e85a71613
01:02 * jnthn -> sleep &
01:03 lue Would it by any chance replace src/metamodel ?
01:03 lue night jnthn! o/
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01:45 dalek niecza: bee6460 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
01:45 dalek niecza: Operator handling unification (prefix)
01:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bee64608ab
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02:43 dalek niecza: 63e2b4c | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
02:43 dalek niecza: Operator handling unification (infix)
02:43 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/63e2b4c322
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03:10 sorear rakudo: my @foo; say @foo[0].PARROT
03:10 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Perl6Scalar->␤»
03:10 sorear rakudo: my @foo = 5; say @foo[0].PARROT
03:10 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Perl6Scalar->Int␤»
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06:27 lue hello! o/
06:28 rod_ hi...0/
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06:43 lue buubot: seen bkeeler
06:43 lue aloha: seen bkeeler
06:43 aloha lue: Sorry, I haven't seen bkeeler.
06:44 masak morning, #perl6.
06:45 lue hello, masak! o/
06:47 lue how long does STD take to compile on the average computer?
06:48 TimToady it takes about 30 seconds on a fast computer
06:50 lue I'm going to guess 30 minutes for me :D
06:50 diakopter lue: you're a fast/60 computer?
06:50 lue .oO(feather has the stuff needed for STD on a <11-year-old server, right?)
06:51 lue I have a processor that goes... oh I can't remember, just a second. (I know it's under 1GHz)
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06:53 * lue hears faint cries from the masses to get a new computer, and ponders stealing a better one from his future self.
06:55 sorear GHz is far from everything
06:55 sorear I suspect STD is actually cache-bound on most hardware
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06:56 sorear it's approximately 20 times faster on diakopter's Nemerle than my Northwood
06:56 lue I have the feeling RAM ought be an issue though. (384MiB)
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06:57 masak mica_ella_tuazon! \o/
06:57 masak lue: can you even compile Rakudo with that?
06:57 lue Hey, it didn't take that long! I guess either a) compilation of STD has gotten faster, or b) I was waay to impatient the other times I've tried compiling.
06:57 mica_ella_tuazon \o/.......friend...
06:58 lue Last time I tried compiling Rakudo was way back in Spring/Early Summer 2010, when I first came here. I've heard rumors it wouldn't be as painful to compile on my comp nowadays.
06:59 lue .oO(Ah, I remember all those times my computer would commit instantaneous suicide in the middle of core.pm > core.pir)
07:03 sorear you could always join my cabal... I know for a fact it builds in 384, that's what I've got
07:03 * sorear is trying to figure out what the Parcel resulting from zip(@a; @b) looks like
07:08 masak sorear: when you do, let us know...
07:08 masak I wouldn't rule out some sludge in the form of wishful thinking around the multidim ;
07:10 * diakopter lolz at 'Nemerle'
07:11 diakopter I suspect you mean Nehalem
07:12 lue what's compiling after the line `Compiled ./Cursor.pm6' ?
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07:16 ram_ hello all
07:17 masak ram_: hi!
07:17 masak ram_: lue needs more of you. :P
07:17 ram_ ok..
07:17 ram_ I am from India..
07:17 masak welcome, ram_ from India!
07:18 ram_ thansk masak
07:18 ram_ thanks*
07:18 masak in here, Perl 6 already happened :) and it's great.
07:18 ram_ where can i download
07:18 masak perl6.org
07:18 ram_ nice
07:18 ram_ whats new
07:19 masak ram_: Rakudo is the most feature-rich Perl 6, but Niecza is coming strong, and is faster.
07:19 ram_ whats rakudo
07:19 ram_ why differebnt names
07:20 masak rakudo: say "hi, ram_"
07:20 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«hi, ram_␤»
07:20 masak niecza: say "hi from me too, ram_"
07:20 p6eval niecza v1-184-g63e2b4c: OUTPUT«hi from me too, ram_␤»
07:20 masak ram_: different names because unlike Perl 5, there's a specification and many implementations.
07:21 ram_ wow.. nice
07:22 ram_ ok whats one thing noticebaly changed in perl6
07:22 masak ah, from Perl 5?
07:22 masak well, we have sub signatures.
07:23 ram_ ok
07:23 masak rakudo: say foo { my ($a, $b) = @_; say $b }; foo(1, 2, 3) # Perl 5 style
07:23 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &foo␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/AryXGcOotd␤»
07:23 masak er.
07:23 masak rakudo: sub foo { my ($a, $b) = @_; say $b }; foo(1, 2, 3) # Perl 5 style
07:23 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«2␤»
07:23 masak like that.
07:23 masak but now...
07:23 sorear diakopter: Yes, I do.
07:23 masak rakudo: sub foo($a, $b, $) { say $b }; foo(1, 2, 3)
07:24 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«2␤»
07:24 masak ram_: shorter, and more informative.
07:24 ram_ oh... that was good
07:24 ram_ ypu guys are amazing
07:24 sorear masak: there are several interlocking bits of sludge
07:24 ram_ perl6 seems to be coolest thing to learn
07:25 masak ram_: for me Perl 6 helped me understand Perl 5 better.
07:25 ram_ oh ya
07:25 ram_ thata a plus
07:25 masak ram_: Perl 5 is better if you want things done above all else. Perl 6 is better if you want understanding too. :)
07:25 sorear masak: multidim array subscripts are connected to the fine structure of Parcels, which are connected to the nature of list assignment, the behavior of one-element slices, polycontext 'return', and the precise handling of 'is rw' on subs
07:26 sorear masak: I suspect both Rakudo and Niecza get all of those things wrong, and I suspect they cannot be improved one at a time
07:26 masak sorear: nod.
07:26 masak sorear: this takes a broadside approach of some kind.
07:26 diakopter [OT trivia]: in what movie does Hayden Christiansen play 'Luke'?
07:26 diakopter er, Hayden Christensen
07:27 lue aaaah, my computer is getting slower by the second (at least I know STD's compiling)
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07:29 * sorear starts to write, sub zipop($fn) { sub (|@lists) { ...
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07:31 diakopter o_O
07:33 sorear basically I don't know how to effectively write a "list infix" operator in Perl 6
07:34 sorear except for secret primitives
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07:40 lue And that's what happens when the compilation process get so memory-consuming it takes a few minutes to get to typing ^C, and doing *that* is memory-consuming enough that my IRC client couldn't stay connected to the internet.
07:41 lue *sigh* :)
07:41 sorear lue: ulimit is your friend. :)
07:41 sorear lue: also, try my compiler - I have binaries!
07:42 masak sorear++
07:42 lue ?(your compiler == niecza)
07:45 sorear Bool::True
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07:46 lue Actually, I would try compiling STD on the server I do all my P6 work on, but cpan won't let me install the dependencies w/o root
07:46 sorear use cpanm instead
07:46 sorear it uses about 1/20 the memory, is 20 times faster, and doesn't need root
07:46 sorear what are you waiting for?
07:47 masak cpanm++
07:48 * lue catapults over several Under Construction signs left behind during the Geocities takedown to find cpanm
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07:50 apejens cpanminus
07:51 dalek 6model: 8df8c58 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/ (6 files):
07:51 dalek 6model: [java/compiler] replacing JST::Temp with JST::Local about halfway done
07:51 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/8df8c5815d
07:52 sorear lue: Why do you want to compile STD using the outdated Perl5 harness anyway? :p
07:53 lue [with laughing sobs] I can't win. It won't let me install to /usr/local/bin , and there doesn't appear to be any (easy) way to change it.
07:53 apejens there is
07:53 apejens -l,--local-lib            Specify the install base to install modules
07:53 lue sorear: I actually just wanted to see if I could possibly interface with it in my P6-on-GCC project, when I get started on it.
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08:42 dalek 6model: 25e6eed | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/ (2 files):
08:42 dalek 6model: [java/compiler] completed the conversion from JST::Temp to JST::Local
08:42 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/25e6eede0c
08:53 lue goodnight Camelia-land! o/
08:53 moritz_ g'night lue
08:53 masak sleep well, lue. dream of more RAM.
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09:49 dalek 6model: 65877f0 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/JST2Java.pm:
09:49 dalek 6model: [java/compiler] update codegen for JST:: New and If nodes
09:49 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/65877f095e
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10:31 dalek 6model: 1fd57eb | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/JST2Java.pm:
10:31 dalek 6model: [java/compiler/JST2Java.pm] update codegen for JST::Literal node
10:31 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/1fd57ebe48
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10:44 dalek 6model: ca389d4 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/JST2Java.pm:
10:44 dalek 6model: [java/compiler/JST2Java.pm] update codegen for JST::ArrayLiteral
10:44 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/ca389d40b6
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10:54 moritz_ regarding masak's coding contest... I thought arnsholt had submitted some solutions too?
10:55 moritz_ I don't see any on the overview page
10:56 moritz_ arnsholt: or did you just write and not submit them?
10:58 moritz_ masak: and I find it weird that you discuss correctness under the the heading "Algorithmic efficiency"
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11:04 pmurias lue: re p6-on-gcc you are aware that's a project that has little chance of going anywere, targeting the GCC is almost the same as targeting C, and the hardest part is not emitting code but implementing the runtime
11:06 pmurias ?
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11:25 dalek 6model: 8b8eca6 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/PAST2JSTCompiler.pm:
11:25 dalek 6model: [java/compiler/PAST2JSTCompiler.pm] port diverse bits from dotnet/
11:25 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/8b8eca6e0f
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11:54 moritz_ phenny: tell masak that the p2 review is neither in the archive nor on the front page of your blog. Pity.
11:54 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
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12:07 dalek 6model: 41ef0a1 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/Grammar.pm:
12:07 dalek 6model: [java/compiler/Grammar.pm] sync with dotnet/ counterpart. They are identical, so there is a good case for having a single instance of this file in common/.
12:07 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/41ef0a18de
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12:14 mberends pmurias: +1 about the GCC and runtime, but think about how much fun lue++ can have finding out why ;)
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12:16 pmurias it can be intresting as an exercise but from my vague recollection of the GCC it isn't very friendly nor fun
12:16 pmurias s/GCC/GCC ast/
12:18 mberends :)
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12:34 x3nU hi
12:36 jnthn morning, #perl6
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12:36 moritz_ mornin' jnthn
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12:41 jnthn mberends: Wow! Lots of hackin'
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12:42 mberends jnthn: yes, even right now :)
12:42 jnthn mberends: :D
12:42 mberends no additional tests passed yet, which might have been your next question ;)
12:43 jnthn (shared grammar) Reasonable idea.
12:43 jnthn I think actions too should be equally tractable.
12:44 mberends Actions.pm is over 99% the same, only the java version needs some bootstrapping patches atm.
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12:44 mberends (currently checking diffs on that file)
12:44 masak morrn', jnthn.
12:44 phenny masak: 11:54Z <moritz_> tell masak that the p2 review is neither in the archive nor on the front page of your blog. Pity.
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12:45 masak moritz_: will investigate.
12:46 jnthn o/ masak
12:52 jnthn mberends: I'm guessing the P6Object.pm bits?
12:53 mberends jnthn: yes
12:54 jnthn OK, that's just loading an extra module rather than bootstrappy. :)
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12:59 dalek 6model: b40d504 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/Actions.pm:
12:59 dalek 6model: [java/compiler/Actions.pm] almost synced with dotnet/ counterpart, missing just not loading core libraries because P6Objects is not ready.
12:59 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/b40d5044df
13:08 dalek nqp-rx/nom: e282329 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
13:08 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Get two of the cheats into HLL::Grammar proper. This first one adds .O (just a wrapper around the PIR) and the second translates .panic into NQP.
13:08 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e282329052
13:10 flussence ooh, the Terminus font can display that funny unicode newline thing that p6eval uses, now.
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13:47 masak moritz_: p2 should now be back; thanks for the heads-up. the dates for the two were identical, and p2 must've disappeared in a .sort -- feels like there's a rakudobug to be had here...
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13:49 masak rakudo: class A { has Int $.t }; say [A.new(:t(3)), A.new(:t(2)), A.new(:t(2)), A.new(:t(1))].sort( *.t ).elems
13:49 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«4␤»
13:49 masak but it's not as simple as that.
13:49 masak rakudo: class A { has Int $.t }; say ~[A.new(:t(3)), A.new(:t(2)), A.new(:t(2)), A.new(:t(1))].sort( *.t )>>.WHICH
13:49 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«269053600 269110728 269080160 269146544␤»
13:50 masak I'll get you, Bug. :)
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14:07 masak ah; no, for some reason I had decided to hash on the timestamp in psyde... :) no rakudobug.
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14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 250d2a3 | jonathan++ | src/HLL.pir:
14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Re-shuffle include order so that for the earlier bootstrap stages the old cheats in HLL::Grammar take precedence.
14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/250d2a3fec
14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: a0f4265 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add LANG, MARKER, MARKED. Partial ports to NQP, with some embedded PIR still.
14:09 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/a0f4265583
14:11 jnthn masak: 1 blog post a day should be enough for anyone... :P
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14:15 masak jnthn: timestamp, not date. :)
14:16 masak Number One Sign that ISO-8601 was well-thought-out: sorting dates of that format is the same as sorting with infix:<leg>.
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14:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 583c7bf | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
14:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Add EXPR and related, plus ternary, to HLL::Grammar.
14:46 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/583c7bfaca
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15:02 masak today's autopun:
15:02 masak rakudo: role FactoryJoke[Str $type] { method make { say "Help, I am trapped inside a $type factory!" } }; FactoryJoke["role"].make
15:02 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Help, I am trapped inside a role factory!␤»
15:02 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 659a99f | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
15:02 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Get the remaining HLL::Grammar cheats put into NQP bodies, and in one case just port entirely to PIR. In theory, this should be all that's needed to switch Grammar/Actions over to 6model. In reality, there's some bug(s) somewhere. :-(
15:02 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/659a99f07e
15:02 jnthn masak: :P
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15:21 * mberends roles on the floor
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15:21 masak :)
15:22 masak today's mini-challenge: write a datatype that works like http://download.oracle.com/javase/​6/docs/api/java/util/TreeSet.html -- elements are inserted in order, no duplicate elements, good access performance characteristics. try to make the API fit naturally among extant data types in Perl 6.
15:22 masak it's a self-sorting Set.
15:33 * masak learns in the backlog that he's four years older than Tene
15:33 masak wouldn't have guessed that.
15:34 Tene orly?  What would you have guessed?
15:34 masak about the same age, or you one or two years older.
15:34 masak then again, I never'd've successfully guessed sorear's age either :P
15:35 Tene Back when I was teaching linux classes, I often had students guess my age as at least ten years older than I really am.
15:35 masak do you have a long, thick beard?
15:35 Tene My girlfriend tends to be guessed at much younger than she really is, too.  We sometimes get very dirty looks when we're out in public together.  ;)
15:36 masak heh :)
15:36 jnthn Beards seem to be, like, $age += $a_bunch
15:36 Tene No, I keep my beard pretty short.
15:37 Tene It grows far too fast and thick for shaving to actually do much, so I just don't bother until it starts annoying me.
15:37 masak :)
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17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 3887fc5 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Switch grammars over to 6model. This includes changes to get protoregexes working again. Sadly, due to some other bug, much is still broken.
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3887fc51ce
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 28c49b3 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Cursor2.pir:
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Unbreak language transitioning - probably a copy-pasto.
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/28c49b3ec9
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 37173b1 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix a translate-o in HLL::Grammar.LANG.
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/37173b1e85
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 5763b4a | jonathan++ | t/nqp/45-smartmatch.t:
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Skip some tests that are Parrot-dependent and could never work in a portable NQP.
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5763b4ad47
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 43af670 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Avoid trying to emit meta-object calls for methods/regexes that are written outside of a package; cleans up the last issues with the tests and mostly unbreaks NQP setting compilation.
17:20 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/43af670b86
17:26 diakopter jnthn: did you see my note about pulling Util's pull requests for 6model
17:27 jnthn diakopter: No, I musta missed it.
17:28 jnthn diakopter: Did you already pull them or did you want me to?
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17:31 jnthn diakopter: Can't find your note either. :(
17:32 dalek 6model: 4081240 | util++ | / (2 files):
17:32 dalek 6model: Fix typo.
17:32 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/4081240bd6
17:32 dalek 6model: 8f6a5f6 | util++ | common/NQP/NQPSetting.pm:
17:32 dalek 6model: Change Northern-Englander slang to friendlier spelling.
17:32 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/8f6a5f6053
17:32 dalek 6model: a0fc0dd | util++ | dotnet/compiler/PAST2DNSTCompiler.pm:
17:32 dalek 6model: Change stray tabs to spaces.
17:32 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/a0fc0ddc1f
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18:04 diakopter jnthn: :)  somewheres in the backlog; I shoulda stashed it in phenny
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19:01 sorear good * #perl6
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19:05 * colomon 's Internet is back!
19:06 * colomon has just been told he needs to shovel some more coal.
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19:07 moritz_ /o\
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19:11 masak colomon: your Internet is coal-driven?
19:11 colomon No, Henry's trains are coal-driven.
19:11 masak ah.
19:11 * moritz_ thought it was IP-over-smoke-signs
19:13 * mberends hopes the dutch internets are windmill-driven
19:18 cogno joined #perl6
19:18 lue hello world! o/
19:18 masak \o
19:20 lue You can always use the carrier-pigeon protocol, if nothing else http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549
19:21 lue (actually, that link is an amendment to http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149)
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19:32 pmurias hi
19:32 lue hello! o/
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19:33 lue pmurias: I refute your doubt about the project! Although I do agree that information is ('scarce'|'technical').
19:33 kst left #perl6
19:34 pmurias lue: how do you refute my doubt?
19:34 kst joined #perl6
19:36 lue optimism and clever hiding spots.
19:36 * lue ducks
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19:44 masak wallberg: \o
19:44 coldhead joined #perl6
19:44 wallberg hi there :-)
19:48 wallberg masak: cool contest! nice indeed :-)
19:49 masak thank you. :)
19:49 masak I'm already looking forward to the next year.
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19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 125d4ab | jonathan++ | src/setting/Hash.pm:
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Unbreak setting compilation.
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/125d4ab5ee
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 910fcac | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Only add the return exception handler when there's a return statement in a routine. On Parrot, adding one to a sub that doesn't use it makes the invocation over 3 times more costly; since EXPR and so forth are now wrapped in NQP subs, we really need to save on this.
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/910fcac241
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 6a1bb2a | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/reprs/P6opaque. (2 files):
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: A little sloppy programming saw every attribute get/bind in P6opaque accidentally cause the creation of two GC-ables. This brings that down to zero, as it was intended to be.
19:59 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/6a1bb2a229
20:01 thundergnat Is there any shorthand (built in) way in perl 6 to build an array of explicit numeric values? Short of actually writing out the actual array and inserting commas?
20:02 tadzik emm
20:02 thundergnat something that is interpeted as [1,2,7,14,35]. [<1 2 7 14 35>] is close but is an array of numbery strings.
20:02 moritz_ <0 1 2 3> is supposed to return a list/Parcel of nmbers
20:02 tadzik rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4; say @a.perl
20:02 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4]␤»
20:02 moritz_ which happen to remeber their original string form
20:03 thundergnat tadzik: hmm. yes but how about if you need to build a multi level array?
20:03 thundergnat Is there anything like 'quote numeric'? [qn/1 2 3 4 5/]
20:03 tadzik hmm, multi level?
20:03 tadzik like my @a = [1, 2], [3, 4];?
20:04 thundergnat multi dimentional
20:04 moritz_ thundergnat: the [] help with multi dimensional
20:04 moritz_ and inside you can use any literals you want
20:05 thundergnat moritz_: doh. I may be over thinking this.... :(
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20:09 thundergnat I have some large two dimentional arrays I am constructing by typing in values and was trying to to just type the lists without needing to insert explicit commas between each value.
20:09 wolverian "dimensional", by the way.
20:10 thundergnat But if I use the [<1 2 3>] list constructor, they are interpreted stringily.
20:10 masak :)
20:10 moritz_ thundergnat: that's a rakudo limitation
20:10 moritz_ thundergnat: you can always +<< them
20:10 moritz_ or +« if you prefer
20:10 thundergnat Normally that wouldn't matter but in this case it makes a difference.
20:10 masak rakudo: say (+«<1 2 3>)[0].WHAT
20:10 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
20:11 masak should be Int, but at least it isn't Str.
20:11 thundergnat oooo.
20:11 thundergnat let me try that.
20:12 moritz_ you can also ».Int them if they are supposed to be ints
20:12 thundergnat Rats actually.
20:13 masak rakudo: say <1 2 3>».Rat[0].WHAT
20:13 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
20:13 thundergnat See https://gist.github.com/792379 for what I'm trying to do
20:13 thundergnat and why it makes a difference to me
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20:22 thundergnat The [<1 2 3>».Rat] will work for me, thanks. I still think it would be nice to have a generic numeric "quoting" like qn/1 2 3/ though.
20:23 moritz_ <...> is that
20:23 moritz_ it's just NYI in rakudo
20:24 thundergnat Ah! cool.
20:28 masak thundergnat: the things that come out will be something with both a Str and an Int/Num/Rat nature.
20:30 thundergnat masak: Seems like a lot of overhead...
20:31 thundergnat moritz_: BTW, congratulations on $family++
20:31 moritz_ thundergnat: thanks
20:31 moritz_ it's both a source of joy and sorrow :-)
20:31 thundergnat I'm sure. :)
20:32 masak thundergnat: no overhead in the best case, since the things are literals.
20:32 * moritz_ wonders how that's going to look in the implementations
20:34 masak class IntStr is Int is Str { #[ cough cough ] }
20:34 masak er, #`[ ... ]
20:34 moritz_ and that for every core numeric type?
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20:35 moritz_ rakudo: print 'cough ' while True;
20:35 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«(timeout)gh cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough
20:35 p6eval ..cough …
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20:37 masak rakudo: loop { print 'cough ' }
20:37 p6eval rakudo 388eed: OUTPUT«(timeout)gh cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough cough
20:37 p6eval ..cough …
20:37 moritz_ oh come on, way too idiomatic
20:38 pmurias sorear: how are named arguments passed to methodcall nam op?
20:38 masak moritz_: yes, for every numeric type. but now that you mention it, it would be really cool if it had bindings into literal parsing in such a way that when someone extends the grammar with a new literal, the corresponding StrNewliteral hybrid automatically popped into existence.
20:39 masak a new literal type and its parsing, that is.
20:39 moritz_ ETOOMUCHMAGIC
20:39 masak either that's way too much to ask... yes.
20:39 masak but we should consider how that use case would work.
20:40 masak user-added literals shouldn't be second class, I think.
20:40 moritz_ right
20:40 moritz_ so... we need real junctive types?
20:41 pmurias what is IntStr?
20:41 * moritz_ doesn't want to be the who proposes it in earnest to jnthn
20:41 pmurias and what would StrNewLiteral do?
20:42 dalek roast: d37e5d1 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/range.t:
20:42 dalek roast: [range.t] Marked tests for RT #76950.
20:42 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d37e5d1003
20:44 dalek rakudo: 7787c15 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
20:44 dalek rakudo: cc_hasjit config item is gone
20:44 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7787c15c23
20:45 masak pmurias: it would have a Str aspect and a NewLiteral aspect, just like all the other not-pure-Str objects falling out of <...>
20:45 * masak --> early night
20:45 masak good night, zebras.
20:45 moritz_ gute nacht masak
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20:52 jnthn Gah. So I switched grammars to 6model at last and got a HUGE performance regression. :-/ Well, thought it may be due to wrapping methods that were PIR ones up in NQP bodies and re-writing some to NQP. Added an opt. Minor improvement. Next up, discovered attribute access was rather less efficient than planned. Fixed that. Still awful.
20:52 jnthn Turns out I'd screwed up the method cache construction in the class meta-object, so method dispatches were 50x slower than they shoulda been.
20:53 moritz_ good news is: if you fix it, it might be not so slow anymore :-)
20:53 jnthn Now the NQP test suite runs faster than before I switched grammars over to 6model, even though some bits are less efficient due to the NQP => PIR move, and that's still before the work to actually really take advantage of 6model...
20:54 jnthn The mistake was so silly I'm almost embarassed to check in the fix. :P
20:55 moritz_ jnthn: if you just committed it with message "fix some thinkos", nobody would have noticed :-)
20:55 moritz_ jnthn: now you can commit it as "sped up method calls by a factor of 50"
20:55 moritz_ and be a hero!
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 5d9c643 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Fix a really silly bug in method cache construction.
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/5d9c643269
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 1e0c709 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/rakudoobject.c:
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: A cleaned up version of the method finding code. No functional changes, was just easier to reassure myself this bit wasn't the problem by factoring it this way, when hunting the issue fixed in the previous commit.
20:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1e0c70934f
20:56 jnthn moritz_: darn, that woulda been a good idea. :P
20:56 jnthn Anyway, good news is that grammars now run on 6model.
20:56 moritz_ \o/
20:56 jnthn Match objects actually are still using the old object system. But that'll be not too bad to deal with.
20:57 jnthn Having worked on this, I'm quite sure there's still plenty of wins to be had too.
20:58 jnthn In some places I expect we're boxing/unboxing more than we used to, even though other opts bring the overall time out ahead of where it was.
20:59 * moritz_ wonders if creation of failed Match objects is really necessary
20:59 jnthn And with the natively typed attributes work it should be possible to box even less stuff.
20:59 jnthn e.g. the current position and the target string needn't be.
21:02 jnthn Whee. With the method cache fixed and the bootstrap updated, nqp-rx builds itself faster too. :)
21:02 moritz_ well, of course :-)
21:03 dalek nqp-rx/nom: e11a117 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (5 files):
21:03 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Update the bootstrap to use 6model during the parsing all the way through the build. At this point, there's still a bunch of clean-up work to do to eliminate the old cursor and the rename Cursor2 back to just Cursor.
21:03 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/e11a117840
21:03 jnthn Darn, wish I'd found this issue earlier.
21:03 jnthn I'd have had faster builds the whole weekend.
21:04 * moritz_ tries a nom build on newest parrot
21:04 jnthn moritz_++
21:04 sorear pmurias: CgOp.methodcall($obj, "method", ":name", $value)
21:04 jnthn I'm still lagging back a bit.
21:04 sorear pmurias: iirc
21:05 moritz_ jnthn: current PARROT_REVISION misses what, 3 releases? :-)
21:06 jnthn moritz_: Wow. :)
21:06 jnthn moritz_: OK, the Parrot I'm testing with ain't *that* far behind. :-)
21:06 jnthn moritz_: BTW, where is the current value to go in PARROT_REVISION obtained from?
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21:07 jnthn The version number and sha1 chunk are obvious but the number that goes between them is from ...?
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21:08 moritz_ git describe --tags # in parrot repo
21:08 sorear It's the number of commits since the release.
21:08 moritz_ parrot_config git_describe
21:09 jnthn ah, thanks.
21:09 jnthn sorear: I guess that's what it was, but didn't fancy counting them by hand. P
21:09 jnthn *:P
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21:13 pmurias sorear: that seems a bit wird
21:13 pmurias how is the backend supposed to determin if it's a named literal by checking the type?
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21:16 sorear pmurias: yes
21:17 lue I shall vworp my way into a future time at #perl6 . Unfortunately, I haven't a time machine, so just afk for now :)
21:17 moritz_ niecza: multi f($x) { say "positional" }; multi f(:$x) { say "named" }; f "x" => 3
21:17 p6eval niecza v1-184-g63e2b4c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Multi routines NYI at /tmp/vHH0haoASm line 1:␤------> [32mmulti f($x) { say "positional" }[33m⏏[31m; multi f(:$x) { say "named" }; f "x" =>[0m␤␤Multi routines NYI at /tmp/vHH0haoASm line 1:␤------> [32mitional" }; multi f(:$x) {
21:17 p6eval ..say "named" }[3…
21:18 moritz_ niecza: sub f(:$x) { say "named" }; f "x" => 3
21:18 p6eval niecza v1-184-g63e2b4c: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to MAIN f, used 0 of 1 positionals␤  at /tmp/X2tH0jEwWa line 0 (MAIN f @ 0)␤  at /tmp/X2tH0jEwWa line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1037 (SAFE C432_ANON @ 1)␤  at
21:18 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line …
21:18 moritz_ niecza: sub f(:$x) { say "named" }; f x => 3
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21:18 p6eval niecza v1-184-g63e2b4c: OUTPUT«named␤»
21:18 pmurias sorear: would it be possible to have more structure in the op tree?
21:19 dalek roast: 62713eb | moritz++ | S03-operators/range.t:
21:19 dalek roast: [range.t] fix plan
21:19 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/62713ebd5f
21:22 moritz_ jnthn: nom builds on newest parrot, but 'make test' isn't clean
21:22 pmurias sorear: is there a reason to duplicate the invocant in nam-methodcall?
21:22 moritz_ t/nqp/52-vtable.t ............... get_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'Undef'
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21:22 jnthn moritz_: That's not surprising.
21:22 jnthn moritz_: Right.
21:22 jnthn moritz_: There's a few that are regressed still.
21:22 jnthn moritz_: Mostly ones that are to do with Parrot integrationy bits.
21:23 jnthn moritz_: If it's just that and the odd one in t\hll then please bump the PARROT_REVISION.
21:23 moritz_ t/hll/02-modules.t .............. Method 'WHO' not found for invocant of class 'RakudoObject'
21:23 jnthn *nod*
21:23 jnthn Yup, that one is fail here too
21:24 moritz_ jnthn: http://nopaste.snit.ch/28626 is the full test summary
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21:24 jnthn thanks, checking
21:25 jnthn moritz_: Yes, consistent with that I have.
21:25 moritz_ then I'll push
21:25 jnthn moritz_++
21:25 jnthn Thanks!
21:25 dalek nqp-rx/nom: ff8c915 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
21:25 dalek nqp-rx/nom: bump PARROT_REVISION to something non-ancient
21:25 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/ff8c915fa6
21:26 jnthn moritz_: Hmm. Configure.pl --gen-parrot spews out a bunch of errors here :(
21:27 jnthn moritz_: https://gist.github.com/792454
21:27 jnthn Hmm, this looks...familiar...
21:29 dalek roast: fd5e4b1 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
21:29 dalek roast: [assign.t] Added tests for #76734.
21:29 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fd5e4b1e2e
21:30 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 1401ec6 | jonathan++ | build/gen_parrot.pl:
21:30 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Apply gen_parrot.pl fix as also found in Rakudo's gen_parrot.pl to avoid a Win32 issue.
21:30 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/1401ec647e
21:30 jnthn moritz_: Don't worry, see ^^
21:32 * moritz_ doesn't worry
21:36 * moritz_ -> sleep
21:36 jnthn night, moritz_
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21:39 sorear pmurias: more structure would be possible, but it would massively complicate NAMOutput - right now, low-level op trees consist only of arrays and strings, which means they can be passed directly to to-json
21:39 thundergnat jnthn: do you get the "fatal: No names found, cannot describe anything." warning when you build rakudo under windows? or is it just me? see RT 82524
21:39 sorear pmurias: also, my last profiler run came up saying that low-level op trees are the largest memory sink in niecza, so I'm very wary to touch them in a way that might use more space
21:40 sorear p,moritz_: as for duplicating the invocant - it's mostly historical
21:40 jnthn thundergnat: Yes, I've seen that. Didn't get chance to look more closely yet.
21:41 sorear the duplication needs to happen, but it could be pushed down a level or two; I need to try this and benchmark it at some point
21:42 thundergnat jnthn: Theres a patch in 82524. It's a quoting issue.
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21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: f508992 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/reprs/P6opaque.c:
21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Switch from malloc to the fixed size allocator for object bodies.
21:56 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/f5089921d4
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22:07 pmurias sorear: how does memory does niecza use?
22:08 sorear pmurias: O(file size)
22:08 pmurias sorear: we could reduce the memory usage of the optree by building an binary representation directly (in C#)
22:09 pmurias or just building JSON directly without creating an array
22:09 pmurias as STD.nam takes only 2.9M
22:10 pmurias but maybe premature optimalisation is not worth it at that point
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22:17 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl​6/index.cgi?perl_6_operator_tablet
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22:23 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/per​l6/index.cgi?perl_6_lookup_tablet
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22:26 pmurias avar: i'm adding a common lisp backend to niecza (a Perl 6 compiler currently targeting .NET), as you attempted something similiar for kp6 may i ask your opinion on some implementation choices
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23:43 jnthn I blug: http://6guts.wordpress.com/2011/01/24/well-that-wa​s-hard-work-getting-nqp-rx-grammars-using-6model/
23:43 jnthn Darn, where'd my weekend go...
23:43 jnthn :)
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23:52 dalek roast: 3f869dd | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/range.t:
23:52 dalek roast: [range.t] Fixed fudge syntax.
23:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3f869ddec0
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