Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:01 jnthn Hope you'll excuse me for sleeping and not working on native attributes tonight. I have to write C to finish it up, and I already passed the Ballmer Peak. ;-)
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00:11 dalek roast: de5c0ff | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-metaops/reduce.t:
00:11 dalek roast: [reduce.t] Edited [^^] tests so RT #77442 isn't a prerequisite.
00:11 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/de5c0ff573
00:11 dalek roast: 689122d | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-metaops/reduce.t:
00:11 dalek roast: [reduce.t] Added test for [^^] on an empty list (thundergnat++).
00:11 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/689122d539
00:11 dalek roast: 162829c | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
00:11 dalek roast: [short-circuit.t] Use isa_ok to test for types.
00:11 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/162829c456
00:12 dalek roast: 748c769 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03- (4 files):
00:12 dalek roast: Additions and unfudging for &infix:<^^> and &infix:<xor>.
00:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/748c7691c2
00:12 dalek roast: 58f71c5 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
00:12 dalek roast: [short-circuit.t] Added some more-sensitive tests.
00:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/58f71c560c
00:15 dalek rakudo: 549d2a9 | KodiB++ | src/ (5 files):
00:15 dalek rakudo: Fixed and extended &infix:<^^> and &infix:<xor>.
00:15 dalek rakudo:
00:15 dalek rakudo: This resolves issues with return-value types (RT #72826), short-circuiting, assignment (RT #76820), reduction (RT #65164), and triangular reduction.
00:15 dalek rakudo:
00:15 dalek rakudo: Whatever-currying is still broken. Fixing this would require, among other things, getting Actions.pm's &whatever_curry to work with PAST::Op nodes with more than two children.
00:15 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/549d2a94c5
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00:21 colomon Kodi++
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01:47 sorear so, pmurias likes to talk to me without asking if I'm here
01:47 sorear maybe I should just /part for the next 4 months
01:48 colomon just so he doesn't expect you to respond while you're not there...
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01:57 diakopter next time I see pmurias here I'll remind him to use phenny
02:01 [Coke] ... or you could use phenny and remind him now.
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02:08 sorear ... or I could just take advantage of the logs.
02:08 diakopter [Coke]: lol, heh, yes.  (it's been a long day)
02:09 diakopter much learnings occurred
02:17 diakopter phenny: tell pmurias reminder: traffic here on #perl6 is comparatively high (to 6-10 months ago, I'd estimate), so people seem to tend to backlog less and rely on phenny's msg system to tell/ask particular claims/questions. sorear, in particular, might like to receive messages from you that way. :)
02:17 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
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03:39 * mberends wakes up at 4h30 for no reason and resumes hacking
03:40 sorear hi!
03:41 mberends hi sorear!
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03:45 dalek 6model: 9a1bd42 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/ (2 files):
03:45 dalek 6model: [java/compiler] refactor the generation of startup entry points
03:45 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/9a1bd4256e
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03:51 mberends sorear: does niecza implement `use A::B;` as reading from A/B.pm? And does niecza use @*INC?
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03:56 * mberends czechs for himself. Ooh, a wget of niecza-1.51.zip!
03:59 mberends there's time to hack on the 6model SignatureBinder while niecza builds :)
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04:10 colomon rakudo: say chr(66)
04:10 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«B␤»
04:12 mberends sorear: current niecza built ok, but `make test` died with: Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method keys in class Array at boot/lib/SAFE.setting line 775 (SAFE keys @ 2)
04:16 sorear mberends: "class A::B" syntax isn't in Niecza yet (there are some dark corners I need to figure out first relating to the fairly common case where A:: is an imported lexical package)
04:16 sorear as such, A/B.pm is unlikely to be useful even if it works
04:16 sorear (which it probably won't, since I've never tested it)
04:17 sorear mberends: Are you building from a clean checkout?
04:17 sorear p6eval had that, but it went away when I did a clean build
04:17 mberends sorear: it was a refreshed checkout. I'll repeat with a fresh one.
04:18 sorear phenny: tell pmurias Do you want to write anything about -Bnam for docs/announce.v2 ?
04:18 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when pmurias is around.
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04:35 stifynsemons I tried out the <?DEBUG(1)> Rakudo feature for grammar debugging. I really like it. Externally, the output goes to stderr
04:35 stifynsemons is there a way to redirect it within the Perl program, for processing/filtering?
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04:36 stifynsemons I guess I was double joining (new to IRC)
04:37 colomon I doubt there's a way to redirect it inside the program, but then, I didn't even know it was up and working yet.  :)
04:38 sorear you might be able to do something using ParrotInterpreter.stdhandle(2, $obj)
04:38 stifynsemons Well, it works well enough for me -- but there is a lot of output - a single case can run 100 lines. But the grammar is complex.
04:39 stifynsemons I'm not familiar with ParrotInterpreter - I assume that redirects all the output of the parrot interpreter. Does it put it in $obj?
04:40 sorear ParrotInterpreter is a class
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04:40 sorear the code you want to use is something like pir::getinterp().stdhandle(2, MyClass.new)
04:40 sorear what you need to put in MyClass is beyond me
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04:41 plobsing MyClass depends on where you want to redirect that standard output
04:41 plobsing parrot has a builtin stringhandle class for instance, so you could redirect the output to string (but I suspect your RAM would explode)
04:44 stifynsemons Putting it in a string seems reasonable - it's about 1k now, so I wouldn't think size would be prohibitive - if I turn it on/off.
04:45 stifynsemons However using it as a filter would be more useful, as I still want the output to go to std out (or std err) anyway.
04:47 plobsing IIUC, any class should be useable as a replacement for stderr so long as it implements the puts() method
04:48 mberends sorear++: fresh checkout works, passed all 731 tests :)
04:48 plobsing that part of parrot is greatly underused and undertested at the moment, so my advice may or may not work
04:52 stifynsemons I'll keep it in mind, but I think it is beyond what I'm able to do today - I've only been playing with Perl6 for a week, after an absence of a few years, and still have a lot of basics to go over
04:53 stifynsemons brb
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05:01 sorear mberends: pmurias has been playing with a clisp backend lately.  Can I interest you in starting the Java backend? :)
05:02 [Coke] sorear: you looking at generate java or bytecode directly?
05:02 [Coke] *ing
05:02 mberends sorear: yes, but only after 6model/java catches up to 6model/dotnet :)
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05:03 sorear [Coke]: I'm not currently looking at either, but bytecode is probably the path of least resistance since the CLR backend does that
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05:35 dalek 6model: 7681c75 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/ (2 files):
05:35 dalek 6model: [java] add a Context parameter to SignatureBinder.Bind()
05:35 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/7681c7530c
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05:44 mberends time mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 2 + 2;' : 4 real 1m57.983s user 1m57.135s sys 0m0.448s on an Atom netbook
05:45 mberends it looks like Camelia is not an Iron Butterfly, but one made of lead :(
05:46 TimToady see if it's faster the second time
05:48 * mberends tries
05:49 sorear the path of least resistance involved lazily compling the setting the first time the compiler is used
05:50 mberends top shows mono growing to about 95MB virtual memory
05:51 mberends user1m58.579s :(
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05:51 TimToady goodness..runs in 2.5 seconds here...
05:52 mberends it's mono 2.4.4, that may be too old
05:52 diakopter wait wait
05:53 diakopter what are we timing
05:53 * diakopter dying to try the sandy bridge
05:54 mberends mono run/Niecza.exe -e 'say 2 + 2;' # from niecza README.pod
05:54 diakopter hm, I already installed cygwin, now downloading mono
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05:56 mberends I think I'll try adding a -e option to 6model/java for comparison
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05:59 TimToady yes, that's way old
05:59 TimToady running 2.8.2 here
06:00 mberends there were some remarks heree recently about mono speed improvements
06:00 mberends *here
06:03 * diakopter watches niecza build blindingly quickly
06:04 diakopter sorear: build problems using .net... I'll try mono now
06:10 * diakopter hears the cpu fan spin up
06:12 diakopter bah.  0m7.280s  # first run
06:12 diakopter 0m2.114s  # second run
06:13 mberends :)
06:13 diakopter 3rd run identical
06:14 diakopter interestingly, the same run under .net took 0m26.722s
06:14 sorear mberends: 1m58s on the second run?
06:15 TimToady he's running mono 2.4.4
06:15 diakopter mem got up to 663MB on that last one
06:15 TimToady so I'd guess it's losing track of something cachey
06:16 diakopter under mono, it got up to only 60MB
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06:18 * sorear wonders if it would use the same amount of memory if diakopter first removed half of the RAM
06:18 * sorear wonders if there's a sane/easy way to test that
06:19 * sorear suspects .net is opportunistically expanding the heap to fill all available space
06:19 sorear Niecza generates quite a lot of garbage; switching from Boehm-D-M to the 2.9 native GC speeds up builds by a factor of 30-100%
06:20 sorear (it's actually the 2.8 native GC, but at least in 2.8.1 it segfaults if you look at it wrong, so enabling it isn't a good idea)
06:21 * TimToady wonders about 2.8.2
06:21 mberends sorear: would you recommend installing mono 2.8.2 or 2.9.1 on Ubuntu?
06:23 sorear I don't know what fixes went into 2.8.2, and I didn't know 2.9.1 existed?
06:23 * sorear is currently running 2.11.6c34e3a
06:25 mberends oh sorry, I thought that was the newest development mono you were praising
06:26 sorear I praise the versions that work for me.  I happen to mostly run monos from git.
06:26 mberends :) I'll git that 2.11.* after commuting
06:27 * diakopter sighs and looks for a windows build of 2.11
06:28 sorear diakopter: Nothing I have said should be taken to imply 2.11 is required
06:28 sorear I tested it under 2.8.2 fairly recently
06:28 sorear older versions cannot be installed anymore :/
06:29 diakopter sorear: nothing I have said should be taken to imply that I inferred from you that 2.11 is required
06:29 sorear ok.
06:30 mberends commute &
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06:35 diakopter sorear: I'm timing a niecza build under mono 2.8.2
06:35 diakopter forgot to time it the first time
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06:36 sorear diakopter: also try running it with RUN_CLR=mono-sgen (and seeing if it crashes)
06:37 diakopter 1m30s
06:38 diakopter mono-sgen not found
06:39 * diakopter tries mono --gc=sgen
06:40 sorear mono --gc=sgen works by exec(mono-sgen)
06:40 sorear I'm suprised only the former works
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06:41 diakopter well
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06:41 diakopter here, only mono --gc=sgen worked
06:41 diakopter yeah
06:41 TimToady RUN_CLR works here
06:42 TimToady though I was just using it on user code, not the build
06:42 diakopter 1m29.7s for the mono --gc=sgen  build
06:42 TimToady sgen seems to chew up memory faster on the knapsack problem though
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06:43 TimToady it very quickly used up 2.7gigs
06:43 TimToady where I stopped it, since I only have 3
06:43 diakopter where's the code for that? I'd be curious to write a perlesque edition
06:45 diakopter the 01 one, or continuous?
06:45 * diakopter (found the rosettacode)
06:46 diakopter oh.. bruteforce
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06:50 TimToady see http://wall.org/~larry/knap01 for the one that runs under niecza
06:50 TimToady yeah, doesn't even do caching
06:50 TimToady but it does complete in rakudo...eventually...
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06:51 TimToady course I coulda made a bonehead mistake translating it to niecza
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06:56 * diakopter starts porting
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06:57 * sorear points out that knap is, uh, NP-complete...
06:58 sorear oh, you're doing a *reasonable* instance
07:01 sorear TimToady: line 10 possibly better written with = instead of binding directly to the parcel
07:04 sorear hrm.  there is no reasonable reason for this to not run in linear space
07:07 dalek niecza: fb07190 | sorear++ | docs/nam.pod:
07:07 dalek niecza: [docs/nam.pod] Bring overview up to date with reality
07:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fb071908b3
07:07 dalek niecza: a520fb3 | sorear++ | README.pod:
07:07 dalek niecza: Add a few recent discoveries to README
07:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a520fb320f
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07:07 TimToady still thrashes my system with the =
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07:08 * sorear tries to profile it
07:09 * diakopter has 8GB, but ... I guess I could try it under the 64-bit .net :D
07:09 TimToady I dunno what my mono thinks of my 64-bit system
07:10 diakopter I'm pretty sure it doesn't emit amd64 yet
07:11 diakopter whoa
07:11 diakopter 5.9GB
07:11 TimToady --version knows it's on the arch though
07:11 diakopter 6.1GB
07:11 diakopter then a GC
07:12 diakopter then right back up to 6.2
07:12 TimToady some kind of space leak maybe
07:12 diakopter 2000 Gen 0 collections, 684 Gen 1 collections, 20 Gen 2 collections
07:12 diakopter so far
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07:13 diakopter %time in GC, 41.10
07:15 diakopter oo... up to 6.9GB
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07:16 * diakopter wonders about making a multithreaded edition of knap01, since perlesque can do that
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07:18 TimToady certainly there are many ways of improving the program :)
07:18 diakopter (since niecza is using only "12.5%")
07:18 sorear according to the heap profiler, after 66 seconds there are 308,714 live stack frames
07:18 sorear this is... ahem... wrong.
07:19 diakopter sorear, I'll send you this Process Explorer performance graph when it's finished; it's pretty interesting
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07:19 diakopter if it terminates properly
07:19 TimToady in an hour or two
07:20 diakopter hey, this is sandy bridge
07:20 sorear sandy bridge?
07:20 diakopter .g intel sandy bridge
07:20 phenny diakopter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)
07:21 diakopter 7.4GB
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07:21 diakopter (GCs are no longer effective)
07:21 sorear aha.  There's no check to stop the recursion when @rest is empty
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07:22 * diakopter looks around for the bonehead remover
07:23 diakopter sorear: where would that check go and what would be returned
07:27 TimToady perhaps you should retranslate from the RC example
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07:34 diakopter ok
07:35 sorear Value = 1030
07:35 sorear Tourist put in the bag:
07:35 sorear socks sunglasses note-case waterproof overclothes waterproof trousers suntan cream banana glucose sandwich water compass map
07:35 sorear MAIN: NieczaBackendDotnet-run took 115.33654499054
07:35 diakopter gist your code?
07:36 sorear http://gist.github.com/798202
07:37 diakopter 45s
07:37 diakopter (coo!)
07:37 diakopter (cool!)
07:38 diakopter oh, that was .net64; trying mono sgen now
07:39 diakopter 51s
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07:56 sorear http://gist.github.com/798221 # Optimized version, slightly over 4x faster, same results
07:57 * sorear out
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09:55 masak hola, zebras.
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09:56 diakopter oi
09:56 zykes- perl6 say3
09:56 zykes- perl6: say3
09:56 zykes- hm
09:56 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&say3"␤    at /tmp/ErghEk2kmk line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
09:56 p6eval ..niecza v1-190-ga520fb3: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤     'say3' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/SAFE.setting line 377 (SAFE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1174 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 71)␤  at
09:56 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza…
09:56 p6eval ..rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &say3␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/oStsZhPy6x␤»
09:56 masak rakudo: say 3
09:56 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«3␤»
09:57 masak zykes-: since 'say3' is a valid identifier, you need the space between 'say' and '3'.
09:57 zykes- rakudo sub {}
09:57 zykes- rakudo: sub {}
09:57 p6eval rakudo 549d2a:  ( no output )
09:57 zykes- ah
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10:02 masak rakudo: say sub {}
10:02 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«_block124␤»
10:02 masak rakudo: say {}
10:02 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«␤»
10:02 masak rakudo: say (sub {}).WHAT; say {}.WHAT
10:02 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Sub()␤Hash()␤»
10:03 mux this isn't really related to perl6, so feel free to ignore me, but do you guys know anything about "use charnames ':full';" breaking when "use strict;" is enabled?
10:03 masak rakudo: say (-> {}).WHAT
10:03 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Block()␤»
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10:11 diakopter whee. finally finished the knapsack port to perlesque
10:11 masak diakopter: how's perlesque going?
10:12 diakopter well, it's "done" fsdo "done"
10:13 diakopter well, for *my* definition of done .... i.e. what I need[ed] it for
10:13 diakopter (toy with primitive types & closures on the clr)
10:15 dalek sprixel: a9bac02 | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (8 files):
10:15 dalek sprixel: slight fixes to some generic method generators; we'll see if they work in mono
10:15 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/a9bac02f35
10:15 masak diakopter: great!
10:19 diakopter :)
10:20 diakopter I figure if it can run a knapsack solver and the man-or-boy test, it's pretty decent
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10:22 masak that does sound decent. more than decent, in fact.
10:23 diakopter and the knapsack solver (for this particular problem) takes ~1 second
10:24 diakopter I just ported TimToady's code
10:24 diakopter took a bit
10:24 dalek sprixel: 4a2998f | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/GenTypeGen.cs:
10:24 dalek sprixel: mono needs the modified returntype also
10:24 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/4a2998f509
10:26 mux nevermind my previous question; it's a known bug in Perl 5.10.x (RT #72590) where if you have use strict enabled and have a compilation error, you only get a strange error from charnames.pm
10:26 mux if you use "use charnames ':full'" and \N{...} in a regexp
10:28 masak mux: good to know. no Perl 6 implementation has that issue :)
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10:28 masak rakudo: use strict
10:28 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'strict' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval//p2/lib/parrot/3.0.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
10:29 mux too bad I'm leaving this place where I work at next week; I'd have pushed for a perl6 move :-)
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10:38 jnthn morning, #perl6
10:38 masak jnthn! \o/
10:40 * jnthn has actually been up and at $dayjob for a while :-)
10:40 masak right, right. :)
10:41 jnthn :P
10:41 * jnthn got immediately taken to a meeting :)
10:42 jnthn ooh, it's pancake Thursday \o/
10:42 masak \o/
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10:47 mathw pancake Thursday??
10:47 masak it's a Swedish thing.
10:48 masak it's really the pea soup that's the deal with Thursdays, but pancakes go with the pea soup as dessert.
10:48 masak (possibly as a consolation for those who don't like pea soup, I dunno)
10:50 mberends jnthn: I belatedly wish you a happy birthday :)
10:50 mathw the only pea soup I don't like is the stuff that's not made very well
10:54 jnthn mberends: Thanks! :)
10:55 jnthn Yes, pancakes (and pea soup) on a Thursday is one of the Swedish traditions I like most :)
10:56 jnthn mberends: How's nqp-jvm going? :)
10:56 mberends jnthn: not even begun yet, still catching up in 6model/java...
10:58 jnthn Ah, OK :)
10:58 * jnthn looks forward to when it passes the 299 tests that nqpclr does :)
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11:00 masak jnthn: 299 tests? did you omit writing one? :P
11:01 masak mathw: almost any pea soup is nice with a good mustard and some thyme.
11:03 pmurias tell sorear ok, i'll try to use phenny more from now on
11:03 phenny pmurias: 02:17Z <diakopter> tell pmurias reminder: traffic here on #perl6 is comparatively high (to 6-10 months ago, I'd estimate), so people seem to tend to backlog less and rely on phenny's msg system to tell/ask particular claims/questions. sorear, in particular, might like to receive messages from you that way. :)
11:03 phenny pmurias: 04:18Z <sorear> tell pmurias Do you want to write anything about -Bnam for docs/announce.v2 ?
11:05 pmurias tell sorear re -Bnam you mean -Bclisp?
11:10 flussence whoa, spectest stuff is down to < 2 hours now
11:11 robinsmidsrod is now known as robins
11:11 robins is now known as robinsmidsrod
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11:41 moritz_ rakudo: say 1074 / 60
11:41 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«17.9␤»
11:41 moritz_ less than 20 minutes on my machine :-)
11:41 moritz_ (two cores, three jobs in parallel)
11:47 flussence the one I usually do it on's a single-core Atom... though it's not all that fast on my quad-core box either, half an hour or so :(
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11:50 * moritz_ wants to read masak's p4 review
11:53 masak so here's the thing.
11:54 moritz_ I guess this review will be a bit trickier than the previous ones
11:54 masak I've willfully started on a bit of a yak shaving expedition in order to bring better images to the one or two explanation posts that I want to write before the p4 review post.
11:54 moritz_ ... and the yaks all ran away :-)
11:55 flussence .oO( if a yak bumps into a mirror, does it become a kayak? )
11:56 drbean joined #perl6
11:58 jnthn flussence++ :D
11:59 masak to the yaks' credit, what little hacking I've done so far (two evenings ago) was very productive and promising.
11:59 masak first Perl 6 hacking I've done in a while, and it produced 3 rakudobugs :)
11:59 jnthn Are the yaks still hairy?
11:59 jnthn Or getting less so?
11:59 jnthn ;)
12:00 masak the razors are sharp, and some of the yaks are less hairy.
12:00 jnthn :D
12:00 masak let's make a deal. I'll have the first pre-p4 post out by the end of the weekend, no matter what.
12:00 masak also, I'll make a small post today about moritz_++' post. I meant to do that anyway.
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12:32 dalek nqp-rx: bffc552 | bacek++ | t/setting/01-resizablepmcarray.t:
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: Stylish change in test.
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/bffc552e0e
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: 7809892 | bacek++ | / (3 files):
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: Revert "Comment out split() function for now; it causes the Parrot build to fail"
12:32 dalek nqp-rx:
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: This reverts commit 5349f1795fb2dd7420a41be28c9d192c10cfb059.
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/7809892897
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: feb29e6 | bacek++ | / (2 files):
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: Use multi-dispatch to split on plain strings in setting
12:32 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/feb29e6a33
12:36 masak chromatic weighs in on EDSLs: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/01/your-edsl-is-only-pretty-in-stockholm.html
12:37 masak I presume that the "in Stockholm" bit is a reference to the Stockholm syndrome, coined after the Norrmalmstorg robbery in 1973 wherein hostages expressed positive feelings towards their captors.
12:38 am0c joined #perl6
12:40 arnsholt "You'd almost think someone had already created a language specific to the domain of describing relational data structures." Oh snap ^_^
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12:41 arnsholt masak: Yeah, definitely Stockholm syndrome. Especially given the oblique Patty Hearst reference as well
12:43 dalek nqp-rx: 0bf82c9 | bacek++ | / (3 files):
12:43 dalek nqp-rx: Implement RPA.grep and rebootstrap setting.
12:43 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/0bf82c9325
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12:49 masak arnsholt: huh. that's another hostage situation.
12:49 pmichaud good morning, #perl6   (briefly)
12:49 masak o/ pm
12:49 jnthn ohhai pmichaud
12:50 masak pmichaud: you're up early.
12:50 pmichaud I forgot to do the star release tuesday evening (got distracted with family stuff) -- will do it later this a.m.
12:50 pmichaud I'm just online early :-)
12:50 pmichaud I'm usually up every day at this time, but normally its for getting kids ready for school and the like :)
12:50 colomon \o
12:50 pmichaud (okay, I did get up 15 minutes earlier than normal today)
12:52 dalek roast: 510d9d2 | (Kodi Arfer)++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
12:52 dalek roast: [short-circuit.t] Rearranged RT tags.
12:52 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/510d9d2cbc
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13:00 takadonet morning all
13:00 masak takadonet: \o
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13:04 pmichaud odd anecdote of the day:  Wife's $job paged her at 3am when a system failed due to encountering an unexpected unicode character in the input:
13:04 pmichaud rakudo: print chr(0x2620);
13:04 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«☠»
13:04 tzhs left #perl6
13:05 masak :)
13:05 masak "System went ☠"
13:06 flussence rakudo: print 0x26.chr
13:06 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«&»
13:06 gfldex rum is the cure in case you wonder
13:07 flussence (I wonder if there's something to do with urls there)
13:07 gfldex or was the system just missing parrot?
13:07 pmichaud .u 2620
13:07 phenny U+2620 SKULL AND CROSSBONES (☠)
13:12 colomon Unicode has a skull and crossbones character!?!
13:12 flussence unicode's a bit of a headache at my $dayjob, I took a while to find out the other day that DBD::Pg defaults to undef charset or something...
13:12 pmichaud It does.  Otherwise we wouldn't be able to represent 17th century sea communications
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13:14 colomon now I want a ☠ operator for p6...
13:15 pmichaud rakudo:  sub prefix:<☠>($x) { die $x; }   # how's that?
13:15 p6eval rakudo 549d2a:  ( no output )
13:15 flussence sub ☠ { !!! 'AVAST!' }
13:15 pmichaud rakudo:  sub prefix:<☠>($x) { die $x; };  ☠ "ha ha ha";   # how's that?
13:15 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«ha ha ha␤  in 'prefix:<☠>' at line 22:/tmp/rxrrfNGUMV␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rxrrfNGUMV␤»
13:17 colomon :)
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13:28 masak any ideas how Perl 6 should provide the 'die-without-a-stacktrace' functionality?
13:29 masak people don't seem to be to keen on adding back the 'ends with "\n"' trick from Perl 5.
13:29 masak and the problem with :no-backtrace is that it's a negatively stated named parameter, somewhat of a design smell.
13:30 drbean joined #perl6
13:30 [Coke] sub { marine }
13:32 pmichaud die :!backtrace
13:32 pmichaud it's still a positively stated parameter, with a negating metaop
13:32 masak pmichaud: oh, right that was the design smell.
13:32 masak ;)
13:32 masak having named boolean params with True as default.
13:32 flussence sub die(Str, :s(:silent)) maybe
13:33 masak :silent, or :brief, or :message-only, or...
13:33 masak neither of them a very strong contender, IMO.
13:33 pmichaud shouldn't stacktrace be a lexical pragma or something?
13:34 masak that sounds like a good idea.
13:34 pmichaud rather than putting it on the individual 'die'?  'die' just throws an exception -- it's up to the handler to decide what to do with it
13:34 masak no die :stacktrace;
13:34 pmichaud then it becomes     no stacktrace
13:34 masak shouldn't the pragma be named after the feature it affects?
13:34 pmichaud perhaps
13:35 pmichaud could want stacktraces for warn and friends, too
13:35 masak ISTR reading that somewhere.
13:35 masak nod.
13:35 pmichaud anyway, it sounds to me like more of a candidate for lexically-scoped control
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13:36 flussence or maybe a multi sub exit(Str $last-words, Int $return = 0) ?
13:37 pmichaud afk for a while
13:37 huf an exit() where the first param isnt the exit code? that'd be surprising
13:38 flussence that's what the multi is for :)
13:38 huf oh right
13:41 masak flussence: except that both the old and the new multi would take one parameter, so things like 'exit $retval' where $retval happens to be a Str will suddenly bind to your new multi...
13:42 flussence hm, I guess it'd have to be the opposite order then...
13:43 masak it feels like undly extending the role of &exit, though.
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13:44 flussence it seems sensible, to me anyway, to have die/$something in the same way there's warn/note.
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13:52 flussence .oO( maybe &footnote )
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15:10 shortcircuit diakopter: "/me (found rosettacode)" ... That sounds disturbingly like a religious statement. :P
15:11 menfou joined #perl6
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15:13 masak "have you found rosettacode in your life?"
15:17 cafesofie joined #perl6
15:18 MayDaniel joined #perl6
15:18 moritz_ are you true rosettacode believer? :-)
15:18 masak What Would RosettaCode Do?
15:22 shortcircuit Actually, my face-to-face social groups are accustomed to me talking about RC to just about anyone I talk to. (It helps me set a perspective for analogy in discussion). It's gotten to be something of a joke, so I sometimes lead off with, "has anyone spoken to you about Rosetta Code?"
15:25 cjk101010 left #perl6
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15:26 masak shortcircuit++ # RC
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15:30 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
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15:51 masak so, I thought I'd update S24 with signatures for &skip and &todo. which one should we change? :)
15:51 moritz_ perl 5's Test::More has a todo_skip $why, $how_many
15:51 masak good.
15:52 masak I was just going to suggest ($reason, $count), which is the same.
15:52 moritz_ so let's keep that order
15:52 masak a cursory read of Rakudo's Test.pm suggests it should be that way.
15:52 masak (becuase there's a todo($reason) and a skip($reason))
15:53 moritz_ maybe we can default $count to 1
15:53 flussence I found myself writing perl5 tests yesterday and wishing its Test.pm was as nice as Rakudo's.
15:54 masak moritz_: right, that's isomorphic to having a multi without the $count.
15:55 masak Rakudo already has it that way.
15:56 moritz_ flussence: you can most of the stuff with Test::More and Test::Exceptions or so
15:56 daxim which is all rolled into Test::Most for convenience
15:57 daxim and I really hope you meant something modern Test::Builder-toolchain derived and not the actual ancient Test.pm
15:57 stifynsemons left #perl6
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16:00 flussence It was whichever one I found first. Seemed good enough to me so I went with it :)
16:04 flussence (and besides, $dayjob is sorely lacking *any* TDD right now, anything's better than nothing)
16:05 fhelmberger left #perl6
16:05 daxim pffft, that's enough to flip the bozo bit srsly wtfbbq
16:05 Mowah joined #perl6
16:12 * masak hugs daxim
16:12 tzhs left #perl6
16:12 daxim programming is serious business
16:12 leprevost left #perl6
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16:13 masak daxim: according to the logs, you're the fifth person *ever* to use that metaphor on the channel. we don't flip that bit often in here :P
16:14 daxim that means the internet becomes better on the whole
16:14 masak (previous users: rgs, chip, PerlJam, Schwern, TimToady)
16:14 masak so, um, sixth. :)
16:14 q0tw4 left #perl6
16:15 masak daxim: either that, or we're all bozo-compatible in here :P
16:16 MayDaniel left #perl6
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16:23 tadzik bozo bit?
16:23 envi left #perl6
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16:27 TimToady morning bozebras
16:29 shi joined #perl6
16:30 tadzik so "flip the bozo bit" is "stop thinking"?
16:31 * flussence just found out about `prove -e`
16:32 [Coke] left #perl6
16:32 colomon tadzik: no, it's more "conclude that the other guy is a bozo so I don't have to pay attention to him any more."
16:33 karupanerura left #perl6
16:34 masak right, one flips the bozo bit on the other person.
16:34 masak it's a metaphor which could only arise on the Intertubes in the first place.
16:37 TimToady masak: er, that is a bit inaccurate
16:37 TimToady considering I invented kill files for Usenet
16:37 TimToady which ran largely on uucp
16:38 gottreu Networks before the Internet are fantasy like dragons and leprechauns.
16:39 TimToady (though kill files started out to cancel uninteresting threads, they were quickly extended to search on most anything in the article, including author)
16:39 masak TimToady: I stand corrected. Usenet, yes, I've heard of it... :P
16:44 plobsing joined #perl6
16:49 diakopter phenny: tell sorear  pmurias didn't quite use the right syntax for phenny: :)  05:05 < pmurias> tell sorear re -Bnam you mean -Bclisp?
16:49 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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16:59 TimToady rakudo: exit note "Phooey"
16:59 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Phooey␤»
17:00 TimToady rakudo: say +(note "Phooey")
17:00 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Phooey␤1␤»
17:01 TimToady masak: ^^ die without a stacktrace
17:02 kensanata left #perl6
17:02 masak a variation on 'exit say'. cute :)
17:02 masak TimToady: what are the conditions under which a &say or a &note call might return False?
17:03 mtk left #perl6
17:03 masak (to $*OUT and $*ERR, respectively)
17:03 timbunce left #perl6
17:03 TimToady rakudo: sub prefix:<☠>($x) { exit note $x; }; ☠ "Avast!"
17:03 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Avast!␤»
17:03 masak TimToady: also, I might not want "exit", I might actually want to throw the exception.
17:03 TimToady generally you only get a failure on an IO error, such as disk full
17:04 masak TimToady: I recently encountered an anti-social (Java) library that did &exit rather than &die.
17:04 TimToady and maybe exit Failure should fail :)
17:04 masak :)
17:04 masak TimToady: so we meant to exit, but the program fails to produce the error message and continues? doesn't sound too great... :P
17:05 masak oh wait, it fails.
17:05 masak never mind. :)
17:05 leprevost left #perl6
17:05 TimToady actually, I'd exit anyway, but print the failure's message before exit 1 ing
17:05 colomon rakudo: sub infix:<☠>($x, $n) { exit note $x x $n; }; ☠ "Avast!"
17:05 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "\u2620 \"Avast!\""␤»
17:06 colomon rakudo: sub infix:<☠>($x, $n) { exit note $x x $n; };  "Avast!" ☠ 3
17:06 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Avast!Avast!Avast!␤»
17:06 TimToady but maybe we should reserve ☠ for our "nor" operator :)
17:07 diakopter evalbot control restart
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17:07 masak TimToady: nevertheless, the 'exit note' pattern is cute, but it doesn't replace 'die "...\n"' in my opinion, because sometimes I want to CATCH.
17:08 TimToady and how come there's no composing enclosing flag character to put around ☠?
17:08 TimToady well, of course
17:08 TimToady 'exit note' is for when you want to be antisocial
17:09 timbunce joined #perl6
17:09 diakopter perlesque: https://gist.github.com/798791
17:09 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.MissingMethodException: Cannot find method GetRange in System.Collections.Generic.List`1[[knapsackItem, p6env_1, Version=0.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null]]␤  at sprixel.TypeInfo.FindMethod (System.Type t, System.String name,
17:09 p6eval ..sprixel.Operand…
17:09 TimToady it's like not giving your friends the chance to argue you out of killing yourself
17:10 diakopter p6eval now accepts gist urls
17:10 TimToady what could possibly go wrong...
17:11 mtk joined #perl6
17:11 dalek evalbot: dbdf383 | (Perl 6 Evalbot)++ | lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm:
17:11 dalek evalbot: give p6eval the ability to accept gist.github.com URLs
17:11 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/dbdf383865
17:12 TimToady cool idea though
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17:13 diakopter hey, it's my VPS :P
17:13 diakopter but really, what could go wrong that couldn't already go wrong
17:13 masak longer scripts, I guess.
17:13 diakopter heh
17:13 masak but that should be OK.
17:13 masak diakopter++
17:14 * TimToady is waiting for the first quine that sends its invocation back to #perl6 recursively
17:15 diakopter I think au did that at one time, but made it terminate after a few
17:15 masak a script that logs in, posts itself to a p6eval, and logs out? :)
17:15 diakopter hah
17:16 kst joined #perl6
17:16 diakopter hm... stack frames *in* IRC
17:16 jimmy1980 joined #perl6
17:16 masak talk about computing in the cloud.
17:16 TimToady your mission is now to invent lexical IRC scoping
17:18 diakopter done. use new channels for activations, usernames hold values and reply when queried for value
17:18 jevin left #perl6
17:18 plobsing all you can do is send a message
17:19 TimToady it is enough
17:20 TimToady one could view the Game of Life as nothing but message sending, and it's turing complete
17:20 diakopter even the 1d edition?  oh wait....
17:20 TimToady well, you have to be able to add and decide as well
17:21 * TimToady imagines freenode as the first real AI
17:21 diakopter if adders/gates can be made in minesweeper, then surely in Life...
17:22 * diakopter ponders maybe going to $work today
17:22 * TimToady ponders the fact that he's not going to India today
17:22 TimToady (consulate is being dilatory)
17:23 wooden joined #perl6
17:23 diakopter TimToady: take a look at my gist above.. it's your prog, typo'd to perlesque
17:23 TimToady maybe they didn't like the fact that I've visited Norway
17:23 TimToady I note that it didn't work :P
17:24 diakopter it works on .net.  a small matter of fixing a bug in the generics compiler
17:25 * diakopter thinks
17:27 TimToady also, it's not Perl 6, so it's OT here... :P
17:28 daxim left #perl6
17:28 diakopter :( where'z that prog use non-kosher p6 subset?
17:28 diakopter oh, the attributes
17:29 diakopter wait, really?
17:30 diakopter I mean, obviously it's not *idiomatic* Perl 6
17:30 TimToady your last has is missing its semicolon, and Perl 6 doesn't come with a 'string' type
17:31 diakopter oo; easy to fix those 2
17:31 slavik TimToady: but it has string context ;)
17:31 slavik unless I am wrong
17:31 diakopter hm, odd it allowed that missing ;
17:32 TimToady and it's not clear whether we'll have a List[] role or not
17:33 diakopter no, but just imagine there's a "use AllOfCLRBuiltins;" at the top (for string and List[])
17:33 TimToady std: gist
17:33 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'gist' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
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17:34 TimToady Public Gist
17:34 TimToady Anyone may fork, clone, or view it.
17:34 TimToady Every repository with this icon (public) is public.
17:34 TimToady Description:
17:34 TimToady dsaf
17:34 TimToady Public Clone URL: git://gist.github.com/798791.git
17:34 TimToady Give this clone URL to anyone.
17:34 TimToady git clone git://gist.github.com/798791.git gist-798791
17:34 TimToady Embed All Files: show embed
17:34 TimToady ddsaasdfsdaf #
17:34 TimToady embed
17:34 TimToady raw
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17:34 diakopter hm
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17:35 takadonet ....
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17:36 * diakopter wonders what happened to my #perl6 ops
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17:36 am0c^ tehee?
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17:36 am0c^ what's happening here?
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17:36 edenc larry's cat can count, how cute
17:36 masak halp, TimToady is malfunctioning! :(
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17:37 am0c^ meow
17:37 takadonet masak: no!!!
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17:37 masak diakopter: maybe you need to auth yourself with ChanServ or something?
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17:37 * masak doesn't remember exactly what the procedure is...
17:37 TimToady
17:37 TimToady class knapsackItem{
17:37 diakopter oh; I'm not?
17:37 TimToady has string $!name; has int $!weight;has int $!unit
17:37 TimToady method ToString(-->string) {
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17:37 TimToady return self.name ~ ' ' ~ self.weight ~ ' ' ~ self.unit
17:37 TimToady }
17:37 TimToady }
17:37 TimToady sub makeItem(string $n, int $w, int $u --> knapsackItem) {
17:37 TimToady my $i = knapsackItem.new;
17:37 TimToady $i.name = $n; $i.weight = $w; $i.unit = $u;
17:37 TimToady return $i
17:37 am0c^ ..er..
17:38 TimToady }
17:38 TimToady sub func(List[knapsackItem] @a, int $w, int $v --> List[knapsackItem]){
17:38 TimToady #say($w ~ ' ' ~ $v);
17:38 TimToady if ($w == 0 || @a.Count == 0) {
17:38 TimToady my $z = List[knapsackItem].new();
17:38 TimToady $z.Add(makeItem('',0,$v));
17:38 masak on the right side, I probably never would have gotten to see this code otherwise... :P
17:38 TimToady return $z;
17:38 TimToady }
17:38 TimToady my @rest = @a.GetRange(1, @a.Count - 1);
17:38 TimToady my $i = @a[0];
17:38 TimToady my @skip = func(@rest,$w,$v);
17:38 TimToady if ($w >= $i.weight) { # next one fits
17:38 TimToady was kicked by diakopter: TimToady
17:38 masak \o/
17:38 am0c^ wow
17:38 diakopter heh
17:38 masak diakopter++
17:38 diakopter finally...
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17:38 diakopter I didn't realize I wasn't auth'd
17:38 TimToady it worked
17:39 gabiruh hail to ctrl+v followed by /kick
17:39 takadonet TimToady: what did?
17:39 TimToady the /kick :)
17:39 TimToady which diakopter++ owed me one of :)
17:39 masak :P
17:40 diakopter masak++ # figuring out me proglem
17:40 impious joined #perl6
17:40 masak just a stab in the dark ;)
17:40 TimToady std: https://gist.github.com/798791
17:40 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed has at /tmp/bGxmfunjtZ line 4:␤------> [32m  has [33m⏏[31mstring $!name; has int $!weight;has int [0m␤    expecting any of:␤   scoped declarator␤      typename␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
17:41 diakopter oooo meaningful line numbers
17:41 jimmy1980 left #perl6
17:42 TimToady std: https://gist.github.com/1234567  # does this parse the error?
17:42 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/zynlHXPOYX line 1:␤------> [32mhttps:[33m⏏[31m//gist.github.com/1234567  # does this p[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Undeclared routine:␤  'https' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
17:42 TimToady std: https://gist.github.com/1234567
17:42 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Whitespace is required between alphanumeric tokens at /tmp/Gq54AjWpVk line 4:␤------> [32ml xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" x[33m⏏[31mml:lang="en" lang="en">[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/Gq54AjWpVk line 4:␤------>
17:42 p6eval ..[32m://www.w3.org/1999/xht…
17:42 TimToady heh
17:43 TimToady diakopter: ^^
17:44 TimToady interesting that it got to line 4
17:44 diakopter teh heck
17:44 diakopter oh
17:46 diakopter evalbot control restart
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17:47 diakopter std: https://gist.github.com/1234567
17:47 diakopter o__
17:47 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/v_DxMoWWPv line 1:␤------> [32mhttps:[33m⏏[31m//gist.github.com/1234567[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Undeclared routine:␤  'https' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
17:47 TimToady LTA
17:48 moritz_ what, that it doesn't fetch the gist automatically?
17:48 moritz_ patches welcome :-)
17:48 diakopter moritz_: but it does. :)
17:49 moritz_ it didn't in the last instance, no?
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17:49 diakopter that gist doesn't exist
17:49 TimToady the question is how it should report that
17:49 diakopter evalbot control restart
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17:49 TimToady parsing as perl6 is LTA
17:49 moritz_ 404 gist not found
17:49 masak +1
17:50 p6eval joined #perl6
17:50 * diakopter had already added 'gist not found'
17:50 diakopter std: https://gist.github.com/1234567
17:50 p6eval std 625303c: gist not found
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17:50 diakopter "I couldn't catch your gist"
17:50 TimToady how 'bout passing the rest of the command as args?
17:50 diakopter ooo
17:51 diakopter well
17:51 TimToady seems no more abusable than the gist itself...
17:51 diakopter currently we build a shell call string
17:51 diakopter but yeah it could be saferified such that args could be passed much more cleanly
17:51 moritz_ rakudo: https://gist.github.com/1234567
17:51 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: gist not found
17:52 jnthn evening :)
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17:52 moritz_ \o jnthn
17:52 diakopter er, not a shell call string, but just no escaping/sanitizing goes on.
17:53 moritz_ yes, we'd have to be very careful with shell metachars
17:53 TimToady Injections "Я" Us
17:54 * diakopter gets to try out man-or-boy now
17:55 diakopter that didn't sound right
17:55 jnthn lol :)
17:55 moritz_ fwiw last time I check, niecza passed man-or-boy
17:55 diakopter actually we could also allow .t URLs in the roast repo...
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17:57 colomon ,
17:57 dalek evalbot: fea0755 | (Perl 6 Evalbot)++ | lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm:
17:57 dalek evalbot: fix unhandled case pointed out by TimToady++
17:57 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/fea07559bc
17:57 TimToady you might as well allow just about any uri
17:58 moritz_ -1
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17:58 TimToady how is it different from allowing any gist?
17:58 moritz_ too easy to DoS
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17:58 diakopter cuz I could get my VPS banned/cancelled
17:59 diakopter if the wrong urls are entered
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18:01 diakopter hm, actually, there's one more broken/exploitable case... I'll let TimToady or others find it before I fix it
18:01 diakopter commute,ish&
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18:05 moritz_ std: https://gist.github.com/798909
18:05 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routines:␤        'b0rked' used at line 1␤        'echo' used at line 1␤  'href' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
18:06 diakopter moritz_ wins
18:06 diakopter feel free to fix it
18:07 diakopter (I know how I was going to fix it... but feel free to work on it too)
18:07 diakopter wait, no
18:08 diakopter that dtrt
18:08 diakopter but that's what I thought was broken
18:09 * diakopter commute IRL
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18:43 moritz_ diakopter: I guess the right URL is just earlier in the page
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19:05 jnthn pmichaud: ping
19:07 diakopter moritz_: yeah
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19:21 cxreg does p6's given/when return a value like they're adding in 5.14?
19:21 cxreg or would you better wrap it in a gather
19:22 colomon they return a value
19:22 colomon I don't know about 5.14
19:22 cxreg http://www.effectiveperlprogramming.com/blog/683
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19:22 colomon rakudo: say given (1,2,3).pick { when 1 { 42; }; when 2 { 100; }; when 3 { -1; }; };
19:22 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say given "␤»
19:23 masak colomon: 'say do given'
19:23 colomon rakudo: say do given (1,2,3).pick { when 1 { 42; }; when 2 { 100; }; when 3 { -1; }; };
19:23 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«100␤»
19:23 colomon masak++
19:23 colomon rakudo: my $a = given (1,2,3).pick { when 1 { 42; }; when 2 { 100; }; when 3 { -1; }; };  say $a
19:23 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my $a = gi"␤»
19:23 masak 'do given'
19:23 colomon rakudo: my $a = do given (1,2,3).pick { when 1 { 42; }; when 2 { 100; }; when 3 { -1; }; };  say $a
19:23 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«42␤»
19:24 masak unlike 'gather', 'given' blocks do not form an expression on their own.
19:24 masak 'do' is used to turn a statement into an expression.
19:26 tadzik so that it returns a value?
19:26 masak so that it parses. :)
19:26 tadzik -_-
19:26 masak the statement also returns a value.
19:26 colomon given blocks always return a value.  but sometimes they don't parse without do.
19:26 tadzik but is not assignable?
19:28 moritz_ some constructs expect an expression
19:28 moritz_ and 'do' turns a statement into an expression
19:28 moritz_ for example if EXPR BLOCK
19:28 tadzik mhm
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19:29 moritz_ so you can write   if do { for 1..3 { ... } } { ... }
19:30 masak rakudo: say if 42 { "OH HAI" } else { "OH NOES" }
19:30 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say if 42 "␤»
19:30 masak rakudo: say do if 42 { "OH HAI" } else { "OH NOES" }
19:30 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
19:30 masak \o/
19:30 masak 'do' is an statement-to-expression adapter.
19:30 masak s/an/a/
19:31 moritz_ 20:28 < moritz_> and 'do' turns a statement into an expression
19:31 moritz_ that's what I meant :-)
19:37 flussence 'do' does stuff, 'given' *is* stuff
19:39 flussence rakudo: say do if 1 { 2 } else { 3 };
19:39 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«2␤»
19:39 flussence (where 'stuff' means 'control structure')
19:41 tadzik rakudo: .say if 42 { "OH HAI" } else { "OH NOES" }
19:41 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ".say if 42"␤»
19:42 tadzik ah
19:43 flussence rakudo: .say.assuming do if True { False }
19:43 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ".say.assum"␤»
19:43 flussence aww
19:44 masak moritz_: <masak> 'do' is used to turn a statement into an expression.
19:44 masak moritz_: me too :)
19:44 masak flussence: what did you expect that to do?
19:45 flussence 0
19:45 flussence :)
19:45 flussence (oh wait, this isn't perl5)
19:45 flussence s/0/Bool::False/
19:45 masak rakudo: .say given do if True { False }
19:45 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
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19:59 moritz_ &say.assuming(do if True { False }).()
19:59 moritz_ rakudo: &say.assuming(do if True { False }).()
19:59 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
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20:01 masak rakudo: .() given &say.assuming: do if True { False }
20:01 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
20:01 masak :)
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20:26 * moritz_ eventually comes to the conclusion that Perl 6 is mad
20:27 PerlJam we live in a mad world
20:28 tadzik heh, that reminds me of a quote I have from #moose
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20:30 tadzik "f*** this shit, I am going to Python. NO CHOICES MEANS YOU CAN NEVER BE WRONG!"
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20:30 slavik that makes no sense ... python in itself is wrong ...
20:30 slavik so you can never be right ...
20:30 huf ssh, dont tell them that! we dont want the pythonist masses to have a collective breakdown
20:30 coldhead lol ssh
20:31 huf at least, i dont want to see crying hopeless people
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21:27 dalek 6model: efcb917 | (Martin Berends)++ | java/compiler/ (2 files):
21:27 dalek 6model: [java] port changes from dotnet/ in PAST::Op compilation
21:27 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/efcb917e2b
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21:27 masak Python seems to be an OK first language.
21:27 gimix_ hi, what are different between OOP of perl5.x and perl6? The OOP in perl6 will faster in prosessing?
21:27 masak gimix_: how do you mean, "faster in processing"?
21:27 masak maybe if you give an example of the aspect you care about...
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21:30 jnthn Layla_91: Привет! o/
21:30 jnthn gimix_: There is a bunch more syntax related to OO stuff.
21:30 gimix_ masak:my team wrote two scripts: one for OOP style and another in procedure style in perl 5.1 (centos box). The result is procedure style give faster in load time
21:31 jnthn gimix_: It's a bit more declarative, but behind the scenes there's a meta-model, so a lot of the customizability is still there.
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21:31 masak gimix_: ok. well, all I can say is that the balance might be a bit more even in Perl 6.
21:32 masak gimix_: then again, don't expect load times comparable to Perl 5 in any of the Perl 6 implementations currently.
21:32 Layla_91 jnthn: Здрасти! ^_^
21:32 jnthn In reality, OO is a kinda "level of indirection". You don't know where you're dispatching to until you ask the object.
21:33 gimix_ masak: jnth: OOP is built in perl6's core ?
21:33 masak gimix_: yes.
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21:33 masak gimix_: Perl 6 is designed with OO in mind from the start.
21:33 jnthn In *some* cases you can work it out statically, as an optimization. But rarely.
21:34 masak jnthn: right, the idea with the level-of-indirection is to buy you dynamism. which means you sell a bit of efficiency.
21:34 jnthn Aye.
21:34 jnthn gimix_: Perl 6 is much more deeply OO than Perl 5.
21:34 masak OO all the way down. :)
21:34 slavik and we get object.blah().blah2().blah3().blah4().blah5() and that returns an excel spreadsheet made from an xmlrpc call :D
21:35 diakopter we have those.
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21:35 gimix_ thanks so much
21:35 jnthn I hope you implemented a custom meta-object to translate the blah call into a web service call. :P
21:35 diakopter generated by java in oracle's ebs
21:35 masak gimix_: you're welcome. we're happy to answer your questions!
21:35 slavik jnthn: obviously, that is exactly what blah() does, it's in the docs ;)
21:36 gimix_ jnthn: do you have sample about meta-object implement?
21:36 masak rakudo: class A { has $.b; has $.c }; say A.^attrs.perl
21:36 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Method 'attrs' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3sALODOe12␤»
21:36 masak rakudo: class A { has $.b; has $.c }; say A.^attributes.perl
21:36 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Method 'attributes' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in 'Mu::attribs' at line 1284:CORE.setting␤  in 'Mu::perl' at line 1293:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
21:36 masak :/
21:37 slavik D:
21:37 * masak consults the source code
21:37 slavik is parrot still sort of slow?
21:37 diakopter O_O_
21:37 tadzik http://isparrotfastyet.com/
21:37 slavik ooh
21:37 slavik tadzik: what does that measure?
21:37 diakopter that's not much of a history
21:38 jnthn gimix_: Not quite there with custom meta-objects in Rakudo yet, but it's being worked on.
21:38 jnthn gimix_: But to get an idea, see https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/nom/src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm
21:38 jnthn gimix_: Which is a basic class implementation.
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21:38 masak tadzik: I thought such sites would say either "YES" or "NO", not give numbers :P
21:38 Layla_91 tadzik: entire url devoted for bench marking.. nice :)
21:38 tadzik slavik: benchmarks of some oofib, rakudo build time or spectests, iirc, and the bench scripts from "IsRakudoFastYet" :)
21:39 tadzik http://gil.di.uminho.pt/users/smash/rakudo-bench.html
21:39 slavik ty
21:39 slavik woah!, dice.p6 got really fast ... quicker rand() functions?
21:40 * tadzik , proudly:
21:40 tadzik YES!
21:40 plobsing unfortunately that info hasn't been updated for months :(
21:40 tadzik yeah
21:41 colomon smash was trying to teach the rest of us how to do it.  I should have paid more attention.  :(
21:41 slavik is there a doc on how to do it?
21:42 plobsing use the source: http://gil.di.uminho.pt/users/smash/run_bench.pl.html
21:46 * jnthn goes to hack on native attrs a little more... :)
21:47 plobsing jnthn++ # adding a t to naive attrs
21:48 jnthn :P
21:49 jnthn plobsing: I already did those. My naivety cost me allocating two GCables per attribute access. :)
21:49 masak oh the naïvety
21:49 masak :)
21:49 jnthn I know, it drives me dotty.
21:50 masak :P
21:50 masak "I remember when I was young and naïf. the whole experience cost me two GCables! per attribute access!"
21:51 masak just let inflation have its course, and soon you'll be paying 10 GCables for a carton of milk...
21:51 diakopter What's a GameCubable
21:52 masak I thought it was a kind of Cable.
21:52 Alias joined #perl6
21:52 masak maybe Clark Gable's evil twin, Glark Cable...
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21:59 rokoteko Gargabe Collectables, ie. stuff that need to be carbage collected?
21:59 masak correct.
22:00 * diakopter is suddenly reminded of trading Garbage Pail Kids trading cards at age 10
22:01 masak "Each sticker card featured a Garbage Pail Kid character, with some comical abnormality and/or suffering some terrible fate, and a humorous, word play-rich character name, such as Glandular Angela."
22:02 * masak lols at the word play-rich character name "Glandular Angela"
22:03 timbunce left #perl6
22:03 colomon plobsing: thanks for digging up the source.
22:03 * diakopter vaguely remembers actually watching the movie at some point
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22:17 sjohnson /j perl
22:17 sjohnson oops
22:18 masak sjohnson! \o/
22:18 sjohnson hi masak
22:19 sjohnson looks like i got busted trying to go to a perl 5 channel
22:19 * sjohnson slaps his own wrist
22:19 sjohnson i should be looking to the future
22:19 masak sjohnson: dude, I have no problem with you using Perl 5. I use it myself, it's a nice Perl version.
22:20 jnthn Perl 5 has a future too, y'know. :P
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22:21 colomon I just used it to solve a practical problem last night / this morning.
22:21 * colomon needed pack / unpack.
22:22 * masak makes a note of that
22:23 colomon what is the current state of pack / unpack in Rakudo?
22:23 Tene At work, we had some MySQL replication needs that MySQL couldn't handle, so we wrote our own replication using Perl 5, that uses pack/unpack.
22:23 masak colomon: barely existing. I have some plans for how to implement more of them.
22:24 masak much of pack/unpack can be implemented in Perl 6. some of it, the parts having to do with Str/Buf, need a bit more thought.
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22:26 pmurias sorear: hi
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22:29 colomon masak: let us know if there's something we can do to help with pack / unpack.  They don't have to be very powerful to be very useful...
22:30 masak colomon: yes, there is. a prioritized wishlist would go a long way in helping.
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22:38 colomon afk # noms
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23:20 diakopter pmurias: hi :)
23:20 pmurias diakopter: hi
23:22 colomon back
23:24 colomon masak: I used "S>", "I>", "A4", and "f>" last night.
23:25 pmurias diakopter: how's your plan to add native types to niecza?
23:25 masak colomon: excellent. get a gist started and get people to weigh in :)
23:26 masak colomon: ISTR we have A already.
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23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 2cf0a78 | jonathan++ | src/ (7 files):
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Drop the _hint variants of get and set attr - just fold it into one variant that handles the case where no hint is passed. Add slots to hold the native type variants, though they're not implemented or used anywhere yet.
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/2cf0a7860f
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 111559c | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/reprs/ (5 files):
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Implement the native attr get/bind in the various REPRs. Of course, a bunch of them don't actually support attributes, so the only interesting code is in P6opaque. Missing a attribute type check still.
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/111559c4a7
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: 155b951 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: Ops for getting and binding native attrs.
23:53 dalek nqp-rx/nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/155b951de1
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