Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-01-31

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:00 masak I had some $life happen to me, ran out of time with my sekkrit project, so the graphics in the post are brought to you by ASCII.
00:00 masak oh well.
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00:01 masak 'night, #perl6.
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00:34 [Coke] if I want to test the exception message thrown for a compile time error, should: eval "thing that throws the error"; ok ~$! ~~ / 'portion of literal message' /, "reason"; // work?
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01:07 sorear diakopter: well I'm here.
01:07 sorear [Coke]: yes but I don't like it
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01:22 [Coke] sorear: ok, well it /doesn't/ work. trying to figure out why - and why don't you like it?
01:24 [Coke] aside from the usual "don't test the actual error message" (but in this case, that was the point of the ticket that was opened, that the error message didn't match STD)
01:25 [Coke] rakudo: / <[a-z]> /
01:25 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of - as character range;in Perl 6 please use .. at line 22, near "z]> /"␤»
01:25 [Coke] std: / <[a-z]> /
01:25 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at /tmp/f1feA04ho8 line 1:␤------> [32m/ <[a-z[33m⏏[31m]> /[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
01:25 [Coke] GAH. That's why it hasn't been matching all this time. (note the extra space in STD. ;)
01:32 [Coke] ... why is that space missing? looking at src/Perl6/Grammar.pm, it looks like the space should be there.
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01:35 [Coke] ... because it's coming from nqp-rx.
01:35 * [Coke] cries.
01:35 thundergnat std: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>[=]>> 0;
01:35 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Can't hyper with = because list assignment operators are too fiddly at /tmp/gRZaVWEaGE line 1:␤------> [32mmy @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>[=]>>[33m⏏[31m 0;[0m␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 122m␤»
01:35 thundergnat bummer
01:39 thundergnat std: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>&[=]>> 0;
01:39 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing << or >> at /tmp/RRBCYt62uJ line 1:␤------> [32mmy @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>&[33m⏏[31m[=]>> 0;[0m␤    expecting infix_circumfix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
01:40 thundergnat std: my @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>&infix:<=>>> 0;
01:40 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing << or >> at /tmp/ECoeVF8mPS line 1:␤------> [32mmy @g; @g[^2]>>.[^6] >>&[33m⏏[31minfix:<=>>> 0;[0m␤    expecting infix_circumfix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
01:42 thundergnat std: my (@a, $b); @a >>[>]>> $b;
01:42 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
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02:08 dalek nqp-rx: ab1ffc0 | Coke++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/Grammar.pm:
02:08 dalek nqp-rx: Fix error message to match STD.
02:08 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/ab1ffc0daf
02:08 dalek nqp-rx: 96e4b67 | Coke++ | src/stage0/ (3 files):
02:08 dalek nqp-rx: update bootstrap for " in Perl 6" error update.
02:08 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/96e4b67a08
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02:19 diakopter sorear: yes but this has occured for a few years now :)
02:19 * diakopter wonders idly whether TimToady made it to India yet
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02:41 sosey hello
02:41 sosey i'm a newbie with perl, but i have a lot of experiencie working with python
02:42 sosey do you recomend me to use perl?
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02:45 dukeleto sosey: we recommend that you write code that you enjoy writing
02:45 dukeleto sosey: also, hello
02:46 sosey dukeleto: i'm enjoy writting c code, so i think i can enjoy writting perl code
02:46 dukeleto sosey: perhaps :)
02:46 snarkyboojum sosey: writing C and Perl 6 is very different, but most people in here would at least say "Give it a try" :D
02:47 dukeleto sosey: what kind of code do you want to hack on? what interests you? It is hard for anybody to help you if we don't know what you are trying to do.
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02:49 snarkyboojum interesting reaction :)
02:49 perigrin "I like writing device drivers, can I write those in Perl?"
02:50 sorear http://www.datsi.fi.upm.es/~jmpena/korbit.html
02:50 flussence_ that pretty much describes my dayjob
02:51 perigrin sorear: you scare me.
02:51 flussence_ "here's some undocumented hardware with a serial port. do everything kthx"
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02:59 sorear incidentally, there was a GSoC2010 project to port Parrot to the RTEMS kernel environment
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03:18 skangas Is there something like //= but for regular expressions?
03:18 skangas I would like to do "$foo =~ /bar/" without having to prefix it with "defined $foo &&"
03:19 skangas Otherwise if $foo is undefined, I get "Use of uninitialized value in pattern match"
03:20 skangas Oh crap, wrong window, I thought this was #perl. Sorry :-(
03:20 colomon skangas: I was trying to figure out how to answer the question in Perl 6.  :)
03:21 skangas colomon: That would be interesting, too, albeit not directly relevant to what I am doing right now.  ;-)
03:21 colomon mind you, I don't know that I have a better answer than ($foo // "") ~~ /bar/
03:21 colomon which still seems kind of awkward, IMO.
03:27 flussence_ couldn't it just do "class Regex { multi ACCEPTS(Any) { Bool::False } }", or would that break other things?
03:29 pmichaud draft of "What Rakudo needs from Parrot in 2011" available at
03:29 pmichaud 22:42 <pmichaud> but overall I don't want them to think "we keep doing things for Rakudo and they never recognize/appreciate it"  :-)
03:29 pmichaud 22:42 <jnthn> *nod*
03:29 pmichaud argggggh
03:29 pmichaud wrong paste
03:29 pmichaud (that was weird)
03:29 pmichaud trying again
03:30 pmichaud draft of "What Rakudo needs from Parrot in 2011" available at http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakpar.txt
03:30 flussence_ I think we've all mis-pasted something in here at some point :)
03:30 pmichaud comments and suggestions welcomed.  I'll post that message to parrot-dev in a few hours or tomorrow morning
03:34 colomon seems a good message IMO.
03:34 colomon "We know that any improvements serialization" probably wants a "to"?
03:35 pmichaud yes, added.
03:35 pmichaud thanks
03:35 pmichaud when I'm editing phrasing I tend to drop/add prepositions and articles
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04:48 * [Coke] wonders why this test file has a non-zero exit status.
04:52 [Coke] fudge adds exit(1)? how do other tests that are fudged not fail the harness?
04:54 [Coke] ... arg. because I pre-fudged the file manually, I bet.
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04:57 dalek roast: d9f5c2e | Coke++ | S05-metasyntax/charset.t:
04:57 dalek roast: Add a test for RT #69682
04:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d9f5c2ee95
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05:01 [Coke] ok, that took longer than it should have. ;)
05:02 dalek rakudo: fcc46ea | coke++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
05:02 dalek rakudo: get latest nqp-rx fix for error message.
05:02 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fcc46eab8e
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05:14 [Coke] seen jnthn ?
05:14 aloha Sorry, I haven't seen jnthn .
05:14 [Coke] seen jnthn?
05:14 aloha jnthn was last seen in #perl6 6 hours 45 mins ago saying "They're just DSLs in Perl 6, right? ;_)".
05:14 [Coke] aloha: msg bacek - "seen foo ?" should work the same as "seen foo?"
05:15 sorear colomon: $foo andthen m/bar/ or $foo ~~ *.defined S& /bar/
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05:16 sorear [Coke]: THere's a --keep-exit-code or similar option that Rakudo uses
05:18 sorear pmichaud: Doesn't PIRATE already implement #4?
05:19 pmichaud sorear: yes, apparently it does, although I'd like to see that declared "official" somehow for Parrot (either official tool or official approach for achieving that result)
05:20 [Coke] sorear: yup, danke.
05:21 [Coke] hey, can we close 63584 with "well, don't DO that, then?"
05:22 sorear [Coke]: I'd rather we didn't.
05:22 sorear One of my favorite things about the Perl5 toolchain is that it's very good about handling >1 perl in the $PATH
05:23 sorear or even outside $PATH
05:23 [Coke] it's not that there's more than one perl in the path, it's that he re-arranged his path.
05:23 sorear I can install software using /opt/perl-5.11-debug/bin/perl $(which cpanm) ... and it all just works, even if the modules need to build XS and ...
05:23 [Coke] hurm. nevermind.
05:23 sorear oh, between steps?
05:25 [Coke] sorear: that was my impression, yes.
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05:25 sorear yeah.  don't do that then.
05:25 [Coke] rakudo: say q<< <<woot>> >>
05:25 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say q<< <<"␤»
05:25 sorear if you want to switch perls in $PATH, use perlbrew
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05:29 [Coke] std: say q<< <<woot>> >>
05:29 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
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05:31 dalek roast: afcdfa2 | Coke++ | S02-literals/quoting.t:
05:31 dalek roast: track RT#
05:31 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/afcdfa2967
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05:32 [Coke] sorear: I misread. he used /foo/to/bar/perl, but first-in-path was being picked for other things.
05:32 [Coke] I'll put in a poisoned perl and see if anything breaks.
05:36 [Coke] *facepalm*
05:37 [Coke] if you build parrot with "perl", that's what's passed along to Rakudo's build system as the perl to use. not /derived/path/to/perl, just "perl"
05:38 [Coke] so if you build parrot, change your path, you're going to get a different perl. (or, if you run rakudo's configure.pl and change your path, the build will use a different perl.)
05:38 [Coke] ... not sure if this is worth fixing.
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05:55 simon__ hey. can someone explain to me how chained comparison operators work?
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05:56 simon__ at first i thought they were just syntactic sugar but then I tried to define another function that uses them internally and it could still be chained
05:59 simon__ rakudo: sub infix:<lesser> ($a, $b) { $a < $b }; 1 lesser 2 lesser 3;
05:59 p6eval rakudo 549d2a:  ( no output )
06:00 simon__ rakudo: say 1 lesser 2 lesser 3
06:00 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 1 less"␤»
06:00 [Coke] (need to combine them.)
06:00 simon__ on my local machine it worked ;/
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06:01 [Coke] each line here is a separate compiled program.
06:01 simon__ oh
06:01 [Coke] rakudo: sub infix:<lesser> ($a, $b) { $a < $b }; say 1 lesser 2 lesser 3;
06:01 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
06:01 [Coke] rakudo: sub infix:<lesser> ($a, $b) { $a < $b }; say 1 lesser 2 lesser -1;
06:01 p6eval rakudo 549d2a: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
06:02 simon__ how can this work?
06:03 [Coke] I'll leave that to someone more familiar with the grammar.
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06:18 qiyong is perl6 out?
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06:18 simon__ it has been for quite some time now
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06:19 qiyong will it replace perl5?
06:20 [Coke] nope. New language.
06:20 simon__ probably not, at least not right away
06:20 [Coke] We hope people will like it and use it, but perl5 will be around for some time.
06:34 cxreg i keep having to correct people about that too.  "no, you're wrong.  perl6 _is_ out"
06:34 cxreg sadly, it's sometimes the same people over and over
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06:38 [Coke] sorear: can you close out RT #75030?
06:40 [Coke] msg sorear: can you close out RT #75030?
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06:57 sorear [Coke]: that's "phenny: tell sorear ..."
06:57 sorear colomon: and th answer is no.
06:58 sorear [Coke]: and the answer is no.
06:59 sorear simon__: Boolean values become 0 or 1 when passed to numeric operators like <
07:00 sorear rakudo: sub infix:<lesser> ($a, $b) { $a < $b }; say 4 lesser 5 lesser 2
07:00 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
07:00 simon__ that can't be
07:00 sorear rakudo: say (4 < 5) < 2
07:00 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
07:00 sorear rakudo: say True < 2
07:00 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
07:00 sorear what can't be?
07:01 simon__ it tried it it still works when it would fail if they were interpreted as 1
07:01 simon__ at least i think so. ill try it again
07:04 simon__ you were right, sorry, my mistake
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07:04 snarkyboojum lue: last post looks like some serious yak shaving :)
07:08 [Coke] sorear: ... no because you don't have privs or because you disagree?
07:29 * [Coke] needs to stop poking RT with a stick.
07:58 moritz_ good morning
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08:04 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
08:06 moritz_ phenny: tell pmichaud re nqp.txt and the parrot tools using nqp-rx, there's another option: they just can continue to use nqp-rx, and we can hand out commit bits to nqp-rx freely to all parrot folks (or even move the nqp-rx repo to the parrot organization on github) if that's what the parrot folks want
08:06 phenny moritz_: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
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10:52 masak [Coke]++ # RT queue traversal
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11:52 cosimo aah
11:52 cosimo hallo
12:08 tadzik hello
12:15 masak ehlo
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12:54 [Coke] masak: no worries. what else am I going to do when I'm up until 4am for no reason?
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12:57 masak [Coke]: we need more insomniacs like you :)
12:58 [Coke] too bad I had to get up by 7:30 or I'd do it more often. ;)
12:59 masak maybe we need a slogan, too: "Can't sleep? Why not try to reproduce a couple of RT tickets?"
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13:01 [Coke] perl6: /<[a-z]>/
13:02 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at line 22, near "z]>/"␤»
13:02 p6eval ..niecza v1-207-g786a885: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at /tmp/FD6qiWbDPI line 1:␤------> [32m/<[a-z[33m⏏[31m]>/[0m␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
13:02 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.16/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' trapped by operat…
13:02 [Coke] hurm. why is std not in "perl6?"
13:02 [Coke] std: /<[a-z]>/
13:02 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at /tmp/MjkysOSYRL line 1:␤------> [32m/<[a-z[33m⏏[31m]>/[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
13:02 takadonet morning all
13:02 masak takadonet: \i
13:02 masak er, \o :)
13:02 [Coke] œ∑´®†\¨ˆøø
13:02 [Coke] ø/
13:03 moritz_ mojibake-smiley!
13:03 [Coke] oh, hey, look, if you hit enter, it sends it out to everyone!
13:03 masak we're happy for all contributions, regardless of quality.
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13:04 moritz_ [Coke]: std is not in 'perl6:' because it doesn't produce run time output, and the perl6: target is supposed to return the same for all implementations for deterministic programs
13:05 moritz_ perl6: say rand # of course not in such a program :-)
13:05 p6eval niecza v1-207-g786a885: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Action method term:rand not yet implemented at /tmp/NUZQGAGRxp line 1:␤------> [32msay rand[33m⏏[31m # of course not in such a program :-)[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/SAFE.setting line
13:05 p6eval ..377 (SAFE die @ …
13:05 p6eval ..rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«0.337835111978592␤»
13:05 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«0.6156015820139091␤»
13:05 colomon and pugs kind of breaks that badly these days...
13:05 * [Coke] listens to a story about a teleporting buddhist tyrannosaurus rex.
13:05 * [Coke] wonders if something like:
13:05 [Coke] std,rakudo: say "what?" ## would be helpful.
13:06 moritz_ might be. And not too hard to implement
13:06 moritz_ [Coke]++ # new evalbot ideas
13:08 [Coke] (also "perl6,std:" to make checking diagnostics easier.)
13:09 moritz_ niecza: say 1, 2 Z 3, 4
13:09 p6eval niecza v1-207-g786a885: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Zip operators NYI␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 377 (SAFE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1022 (SAFE infix:<Z> @ 2)␤  at /tmp/KR83bnMFOC line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 3)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting
13:09 p6eval ..line 1037 (SAF…
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13:24 * [Coke] hurls http://isitchristmas.com/ ... which is very funny and relevant to perl6, but has a very sad story behind it.
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13:30 masak [Coke]: what's the story behind it?
13:32 masak heh, the JavaScript source for telling whether it's Christmas is very readable... and it even does a bit of i18n, it seems. but it doesn't take into account that the *date* for Christmas varies. :)
13:32 masak ask any Swede, and they'll say Dec 24 without hesitation.
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13:33 colomon our old neighbors never put up their Christmas decorations until after Dec. 25th.  I think they were perhaps Russian Orthodox?
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13:34 moritz_ well, in .de we think Christmas is from Dec24 to Dec26
13:35 [Coke] masak - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Zeller
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13:37 moritz_ [Coke]: I don't quite see the connection
13:38 [Coke] sorry, he was the author.
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13:38 moritz_ ah.
13:39 moritz_ I looked into the whois record, and he wasn't the domain holder
13:39 moritz_ that was I all I check though
13:39 [Coke] linked to from a news article about the suicide.
13:41 masak :(
13:41 masak I've used Graph Your Inbox, one of his creations. it's a nice program.
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13:44 * moritz_ medidates over http://perl6.org/page-stats#Domain%20referrals
13:44 moritz_ 1.5k visitors from planet.haskell.org. not bad.
13:46 takadonet wait a min... why can I see that link? I have no administration power on perl6.org?
13:48 moritz_ takadonet: what error do you get?
13:48 moritz_ I don't think there are any restrictions on that page
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13:48 takadonet moritz_: i get no error. I can see the page
13:49 takadonet moritz_: just thought it would have been restricted
13:49 moritz_ ah, I thought there was a negation somewhere :-)
13:49 moritz_ why should it be restricted?
13:49 moritz_ it doesn't reveal any private information
13:50 wamba joined #perl6
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13:51 moritz_ and whom would we show the page, and whom not?
13:58 kaare_ left #perl6
14:01 flussence_ The referrer links could use a rel=nofollow...
14:01 kst left #perl6
14:02 flussence_ or at least exclude that page in robots.txt
14:03 moritz_ flussence_: robots.txt is a good idea... care to patch it?
14:05 flussence_ er, ok
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14:13 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:13 phenny pmichaud: 08:06Z <moritz_> tell pmichaud re nqp.txt and the parrot tools using nqp-rx, there's another option: they just can continue to use nqp-rx, and we can hand out commit bits to nqp-rx freely to all parrot folks (or even move the nqp-rx repo to the parrot organization on github) if that's what the parrot folks want
14:14 pmichaud moritz_: yes, that's definitely another option.
14:14 pmichaud I'll try to add it to the text as well.
14:15 takadonet pmichaud: morning
14:15 moritz_ I think it's important we don't the parrot dev's tools away as we go along :-)
14:15 * [Coke] chuckles at the latest perl5 bug: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=83086
14:15 pmichaud well, I'm rather hoping that Parrot will still decide to adopt the new NQP along with its object model.  It's not that big a stretch.
14:15 masak morning, pm.
14:16 moritz_ pmichaud: sure. But some people like choices, just for the sake of it :-)
14:16 masak moritz_: important that we don't accidentally the parrot dev tools? :)
14:16 pmichaud I took it as "don't chase"
14:17 [Coke] pmichaud: is there anything left to do on RT #50118, especially in light of jnthn's recent work?
14:17 flussence_ moritz_: sent a pull request for the robots.txt on github
14:17 pmichaud [Coke]: no.
14:17 pmichaud I think we can close that ticket
14:18 moritz_ flussence_: please commit directly. KTHXBY :-)
14:18 flussence_ oh :)
14:18 moritz_ flussence_: you now have commit access to most repos in the perl6/ organization, including perl6.org, mu, roast, specs and ecosystem
14:19 moritz_ we have a 'perl6' group into which we stuff people, because handing out bits for each repo separately is just too cumbersome
14:20 pmichaud any other comments on nqp.txt or rakpar.txt before I post them?
14:21 dalek perl6.org: 400c7a1 | (Anthony Parsons)++ | robots.txt:
14:21 dalek perl6.org: Block /page-stats in robots.txt
14:21 dalek perl6.org:
14:21 dalek perl6.org: The page contains hyperlinks to the top referrers; this should stop referral
14:21 dalek perl6.org: spammers from taking advantage of it.
14:21 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/400c7a170a
14:22 moritz_ pmichaud: if '+1' count as a comment... that would be mine :-)
14:22 moritz_ pmichaud: I guess you've seen my other correction in #parrot (s/#2/#3/)
14:23 pmichaud no, didn't see that yet
14:23 pmichaud looking
14:23 moritz_ at the bottom, where you refer back the serialization
14:23 pmichaud ah, yes, I reordered but forgot to fix the reference
14:23 pmichaud Added the line:
14:23 pmichaud "Or, the existing
14:23 pmichaud nqp-rx could continue to live on as its own project targeting Parrot
14:23 pmichaud libraries, perhaps even being adopted into the Parrot repository.
14:23 pmichaud Whatever the Parrot team chooses to do ..."
14:24 pmichaud s/libraries/subsystems/
14:29 [Coke] pmichaud: done.
14:31 colomon rakudo: say ~reducewith(&infix:<*>, 1...10)
14:31 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'reducewith'. Available candidates are:␤:(&op, *@args, Any :chaining($chaining), Any :right-assoc($right-assoc), Any :triangle($triangle), Any :xor($xor))␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3gymi_u02B␤»
14:31 Mowah joined #perl6
14:32 colomon oh, right
14:32 moritz_ huh, what's missing?
14:32 moritz_ all those anmed params seem optional
14:33 colomon not optional, because it's parsing as the sequence &infix:<*>, 1 ... 10
14:33 colomon or something like that.
14:33 moritz_ oh
14:34 moritz_ rakudo: say ~reducewith(&infix:<*>, (1...10))
14:34 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«3628800␤»
14:35 colomon just a side effect, I'm trying to sort out why metaops (etc) are failing so badly with Math::BigInt.
14:35 moritz_ I have a guess
14:36 moritz_ if you write [*] 1, 2
14:36 flussence_ I'd like that error message above to say something like "Got signature: [...]; Available candidates are: [...]"...
14:36 moritz_ rakudo generates a prefix:<[*]>
14:36 [Coke] perl6: say [+] [1,2,3] # what's the right answer here?
14:36 p6eval niecza v1-207-g786a885: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.Exception: Unable to find lexical &reduceop in mainline␤␤Server stack trace: ␤  at Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.ResolveLex (System.String name, System.Int32& uplevel, Boolean core) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
14:36 p6eval ..Niecza.CLRBackend.NamProcessor.…
14:36 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
14:36 p6eval ..rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«3␤»
14:36 moritz_ but I guess that doesn't properly multi-dispatch
14:36 pmichaud [Coke]: Rakudo is correct
14:36 moritz_ [Coke]: 3 is correct I think
14:37 colomon oh wow, here's a bad one:
14:37 colomon 1L ... 50L turns into 50 50 50 50 50 ... 50
14:37 colomon oh, I think I know what's up with that.
14:37 moritz_ so [*] is "frozen" to a particular multi, instead of doing a new dispatch in the caller's scope
14:37 moritz_ s/multi/candidate/
14:38 risou_ left #perl6
14:38 colomon the thing that's weird is [*] worked fine when I had it our multi infix:<*>(Math::BigInt etc) at the top level AND I called [*] in the same file.
14:39 risou joined #perl6
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14:39 moritz_ that's because the generated prefix:<[*]> is global (and not per scope or so)
14:39 colomon but when I made it our multi infix:<L*>(Math::BigInt etc) is export but defined it in the Math::BigInt class definition and then called it in a separate file, it fails miserably.
14:40 ascent_ left #perl6
14:40 colomon called [L*], that is.
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14:58 chaitanya9186 joined #perl6
14:58 chaitanya9186 Hello
14:59 masak chaitanya9186: hi!
15:00 chaitanya9186 Can i knw
15:00 chaitanya9186 u
15:00 chaitanya9186 ?
15:00 masak yes...?
15:00 [Coke] Can anyone really know anyone?
15:00 felliott left #perl6
15:00 gfldex there are moments where i know myself
15:00 masak [Coke]: what, in the biblical sense? :P
15:02 mathw I learn about myself in aikido classes, there are these vivid flashes of insight about halfway between the throw and the floor...
15:03 PacoLinux joined #perl6
15:03 mathw in mid-air, upside-down and rapidly rotating :)
15:03 mathw I start to understand why people do acrobatics
15:03 masak from an outside perspective, that sounds like the totally wrong moment to have an insight :P
15:04 mathw no at that point it's fine
15:04 mathw because if you've not set up properly for the fall by then so that you can just relax and let it happen, you're probably going to land wrong anyway
15:04 masak oh, ok.
15:04 frettled And that's when mathw solves Perl 6 problems.
15:04 moritz_ masak: I guess it's like seeing your live passing by while falling from the cliff
15:05 moritz_ "I should have made peace with Aunty Foo, really"
15:05 frettled :D
15:05 plainhao joined #perl6
15:05 mathw proper throws send you down too fast to be able to fall consciously
15:05 * [particle] got a large rope burn on his ankle this weekend after a mistaken cliff fall
15:05 mathw ouch
15:06 [particle] my fault for having my foot behind the rope :(
15:06 mathw I hit the mat hard enough to numb three of the fingers on the hand that hit first
15:06 mathw need to work on which bit of my body hits the ground first, spread it out a little more
15:06 mathw just a tad too much force to dissipate into three fingers
15:07 [particle] obviously, you need more fingers.
15:07 * masak imagines having an Auntie named "Foo"
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15:10 mathw [particle]: what would be cool is hands which can expand into giant shock-absorbing pads in a fraction of a second just before landing :)
15:11 [particle] i'd certainly like skin that immediately stiffens when exposed to extreme friction
15:11 kst joined #perl6
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15:13 mathw That would also be useful
15:14 mathw And maybe some sort of robot arm which comes out and whacks people who walk into me in the street because they forgot that other people use the pavement too... or am I going overboard now?
15:14 alester left #perl6
15:14 pmichaud wouldn't "going overboard" be something that would happen on a ship instead of a sidewalk?
15:15 frettled or boardwalk?  ;)
15:15 mathw on a boardwalk, it's 'falling in' :)
15:15 mathw or maybe 'falling off'
15:15 mathw all purely accidental of course
15:15 * mathw whistles innocently
15:15 mathw pmichaud: Good email. 6model is leading to excitement
15:16 takadonet boardwalk empire  : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk_Empire
15:16 takadonet ?
15:16 LoRe joined #perl6
15:16 * moritz_ must remember to keep distance to mathw :-)
15:16 moritz_ I do bump into people who just stop walking in front of me :-)
15:17 mkramer1 left #perl6
15:19 [particle] stop looking at your smartphone when you walk :P
15:20 masak I hear there are apps that show you the street while you type :P
15:20 Vlavv joined #perl6
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15:21 mkramer joined #perl6
15:23 * moritz_ doesn't even have a smartphone
15:26 mathw that's the problem then
15:26 mathw it can't show you the street while you're typing your SMSes
15:27 * moritz_ has written about 2 SMS last year
15:27 cjk101010 left #perl6
15:34 Juerd I'm going to archive some user accounts on feather again
15:34 ubunturocks left #perl6
15:35 Juerd All homedirs with mtime < 2009 will be tarred, the corresponding user accounts removed
15:35 Juerd If you wish to keep your account, please shout :)
15:35 BinGOs tarred and feathered!
15:36 Juerd anatoly atnnn azuroth broquaint bsmith clkao cmarcelo domm er evalbot ferreira gaal geoffb henk jedai jesse joepurl johnpc karhu kolibrie lanny larry limbic liz lt marcel markstos mdiep morrow nothingmuch pdcawley pelagic scook0 shlomif simon sjp spinclad stevan szbalint tewk thoughtpolice zoo
15:38 masak if that's not two terms in a row, I don't know what is. :P
15:38 mkramer left #perl6
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15:46 arnsholt "We could try each possible move in each possible heap, but that's inelegant." And what I did in my Kayles AI ^_^
15:46 ascent_ joined #perl6
15:47 masak arnsholt: I haven't convinced myself that that particular feature of Nim carries over to .137
15:47 masak I'll know in a few days :P
15:47 arnsholt Oh, goody. =)
15:48 V15170R joined #perl6
15:48 masak it's less trivial because of the mapping that goes on between .137 an Nim.
15:48 masak so trying each possible move might actually be necessary.
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16:06 sorear good * #perl6
16:08 pmurias sorear: hi
16:08 pmurias sorear: i'm updating cl-backend to doc/nam.pod
16:13 Patterner left #perl6
16:15 sorear pmichaud: I was under the impression that the P in PCT, PAST, POST always stood for "pmichaud"
16:15 masak hi, sorear.
16:15 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:15 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:16 masak sorear: see also PmWiki, PMCs, and PGE :)
16:16 kst left #perl6
16:16 pmurias didn't they stand for "Parrot"?
16:16 sorear [Coke]: no because I don't have an RT account
16:16 masak pmurias: come to think of it, what does the 'pm' in pmurias stand for...?
16:16 diakopter :)
16:16 kst joined #perl6
16:17 [particle] just call me pmichaudarticle
16:17 pmichaud when I was teaching at the university, some of my students would look at the many ".pm" files in /usr/lib/perl5 and marvel at how much code I was able to write.
16:17 masak *lol*
16:17 pmichaud "Dr. Michaud *really* likes Perl!"
16:17 pmurias heh
16:17 [Coke] heh.
16:18 pmichaud I did want to register "pm.org" for myself, but alas, it was taken by some subversive programming cult.
16:18 pmichaud afaict, they're just squatting on the domain anyway
16:19 PerlJam pmichaud: I'd thought you'd lobby for a .pm TLD by now
16:19 pmichaud hadn't quite thought of that yet.
16:20 pmichaud yay, new blog online:  http://pmthium.com/
16:20 stkowski joined #perl6
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16:20 pmichaud now to get the feeds into Planet Perl Six, Planet Parrot, and Iron Man Perl
16:21 masak pmthium! \o/ right there in the periodic table, between wonderflonium and unobtainium.
16:22 felliott joined #perl6
16:22 maja left #perl6
16:23 pmichaud actually, I think it's between Neodymium and Samarium.  :-)
16:23 maja joined #perl6
16:23 pmichaud But there are some new isotopes to be explored.
16:23 masak :)
16:23 PerlJam If Adam Ant can get his own element, anyone can.
16:24 * masak groans
16:24 pmichaud ummmm, how do I update the location of my ironman feed, ooc?
16:24 mkramer left #perl6
16:25 PerlJam contact mst?
16:26 masak there's an ironman address on the Ironman page.
16:26 pmichaud maybe mailto:ironman@....
16:26 pmichaud yeah
16:26 pmichaud I'll try that
16:27 mtk joined #perl6
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16:32 moritz_ iirc [Coke] can change planetsix URLs
16:33 kst joined #perl6
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16:40 [Coke] aye.
16:41 markmont joined #perl6
16:42 jnthn evening o/
16:43 * jnthn is pleased to see pmichaud has good taste in WordPress themes. ;)
16:43 pmichaud heh
16:44 pmichaud well, I was working on an abstract header graphic, but it wasn't turning out well and I finally decided to just use a landscape
16:44 jnthn :)
16:44 kjeldahl joined #perl6
16:44 jnthn It's a pretty one. :)
16:44 jnthn Looks a tad warmer than the one on 6guts. :)
16:45 ab5tract joined #perl6
16:48 masak hm, maybe I should have a landscape too, that's not too bad...
16:48 masak anyone have a strangely consistent langscape sitting around? :P
16:50 jnthn masak: Trying to think of somewhere that has old and new architecture side by side and makes it work...
16:50 mkramer joined #perl6
16:50 jnthn Though that'd be a cityscape rather than a landscape. :)
16:53 pmichaud ("tad warmer")  actually, that photo was taken in late november, and it was around 5 degC when I took the photo :)
16:53 pmichaud so, not all that warm
16:53 jnthn Heh
16:53 jnthn Mine was taken in mid-May. :)
16:54 jnthn And was no warmer than that, but I doubt it was awfully colder. :)
16:54 pmichaud so it's entirely possible it was warmer when you..... right :)
16:54 [particle] jnthn: i'm thinking the guggenheim in bilbao or the mit campus
16:54 jnthn Yes, I think my photo taken in November woulda been pretty crappy.
16:54 jnthn Given it's in the Arctic Circle and there's no light in November. :)
16:55 masak [particle]: url?
16:56 [particle] http://www.kegz.net/archives/images/gehry_mit.jpg
16:56 pmichaud someone needed a better square and level when they built that.
16:57 * moritz_ sees how it matches "strange", but doesn't see the consistency :-)
16:58 * PerlJam wonders if hobgoblins factor into this somehow
16:59 jnthn Mmmm....Hobgoblin :D
17:00 wamba left #perl6
17:01 [particle] that's just one angle, which shows old+new integrated
17:01 [particle] it's a fascinating building
17:02 dalek niecza: a7f0672 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/backend.lisp:
17:02 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] port over unit definition from doc/nam.pod
17:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a7f0672dd0
17:02 dalek niecza: a7cd075 | pmurias++ | cl-backend/backend.lisp:
17:02 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] refactor the way subs are compiled
17:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a7cd0754ce
17:02 jnthn [particle]: Wow, that's...quite a building.
17:03 moritz_ masak: maybe some buildings by Hunterwasser?
17:05 pmichaud fwiw, I like the strangelyconsistent header graphic
17:06 pmichaud not saying "don't change it", but I like it fine as it exists now
17:06 daxim Hundertwasser!
17:06 masak moritz_: url?
17:06 envi left #perl6
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17:07 masak [particle]: I look at that, and go "well, um, it gets the 'strangely' part down pat..." :)
17:07 V15170R left #perl6
17:09 daxim next time you come to vienna I could show you around.
17:10 masak yay
17:10 * masak has been to Vienna twice so far
17:10 masak lovely city.
17:11 daxim http://www.kunsthauswien.com/en/museum  # enjoyable geekery
17:11 masak pmichaud: *really*? it's a placeholder specifically designed to give me enough bad conscience to make a real one... :P
17:12 18VAB4OU2 joined #perl6
17:18 * allbery_b glances up and imediately thinks "stata?"
17:18 pmurias left #perl6
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17:21 allbery_m is now known as allbery_b
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17:22 moritz_ masak: http://images.google.com/images?q=hundertwasser+buildings
17:23 masak whoa
17:24 plobsing left #perl6
17:26 sftp_ joined #perl6
17:26 masak this is what most gives me vibes of "strange consistency": http://www.roxanneardary.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/dar-al-hajar.jpg
17:27 masak not too suitable as a header image, sadly...
17:27 sftp left #perl6
17:28 bluescreen joined #perl6
17:29 PerlJam I keep thinking of things that are consistently strange (like Dali paintings :)
17:29 moritz_ PerlJam: I've thought of Dalí too
17:31 awwaiid joined #perl6
17:32 * colomon is testing his internet connection
17:33 moritz_ test, 1, 2, 3
17:33 plobsing joined #perl6
17:34 * masak .oO( The Tango Maureen )
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18:02 dalek roast: b814b4d | moritz++ | S03-operators/eqv.t:
18:02 dalek roast: [eqv.t] tests for RT #75322
18:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b814b4d139
18:05 ab5tract left #perl6
18:06 moritz_ rakudo: class A is Array { }; my @a := A.new; @a.push: 'foo'; say @a
18:06 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«foo␤»
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18:19 dalek roast: bfe67a6 | moritz++ | S12-class/inheritance.t:
18:19 dalek roast: [inheritance.t] tests for RT #74844
18:19 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/bfe67a61c4
18:20 [Coke] moritz_++ # writing tests.
18:22 moritz_ [Coke]++ # identifying what to write tests for
18:24 kst left #perl6
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18:25 kst joined #perl6
18:25 colomon moritz_++ [Coke]++ # getting things done
18:30 muixirt joined #perl6
18:31 muixirt rakudo: say 2**2**2**2**2
18:31 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
18:32 PerlJam Is that an associativity problem?
18:32 PerlJam (perhaps in my head?)
18:33 moritz_ ** is right-assoc
18:33 muixirt inspired by http://twitter.com/#!/climagic/status/32140176075530240
18:33 moritz_ both in spec and rakudo
18:34 PerlJam then, yes, it's in my head :)
18:34 colomon whoa, that's a big number
18:35 * colomon thinks he just created the biggest number ever calculated in Rakudo.  :)
18:35 colomon https://gist.github.com/804533
18:36 moritz_ colomon: strictly speaking it wasn't calculated *in* rakudo
18:36 colomon moritz_: by that logic, no math has ever been done *in* rakudo.
18:36 PerlJam but thankfully both your number and python's number agree  :)
18:37 colomon \o/
18:38 colomon that's 19,729 digits long.
18:38 flussence_ rakudo: multi sub infix:<↑↑>(Int $a, Int $b) { return [**] $a xx $b }; say 2 ↑↑ 4
18:38 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«65536␤»
18:39 dalek roast: aeb686f | moritz++ | S32-io/dir.t:
18:39 dalek roast: basic tests for dir()
18:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/aeb686f04b
18:40 flussence_ rakudo: multi sub infix:<↑↑>(Int $a, Int $b) { [**] $a xx $b }; say 3 ↑↑ 4
18:40 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
18:41 flussence_ guess it doesn't like 7 trillion...
18:41 flussence_ rakudo: multi sub infix:<↑↑>(Int $a, Int $b) { [**] $a xx $b }; say 3 ↑↑ 3
18:41 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«7625597484987␤»
18:41 flussence_ or I just did it wrong
18:42 moritz_ I know $x ↑↑ $x as the Fuga function
18:42 moritz_ not sure if that's correct or wildly known though
18:42 Tene flussence_: you need to define that as a meta-op, so you can handle any number of up arrows
18:42 Tene 3 ↑↑↑↑ 3
18:43 flussence_ moritz_: haven't heard of it as that name before - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuth's_up-arrow_notation
18:44 dalek rakudo: d3e9a36 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
18:44 dalek rakudo: run S32-io/dir.t test file
18:44 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d3e9a36edb
18:44 flussence_ how do you define a meta-op anyway? I looked before but couldn't find anything
18:45 colomon You can't easily define one without modifying Rakudo's source, if that's what your'e asking
18:46 colomon huh.
18:46 colomon > use Math::BigInt;  say reducewith(&infix:<**>, (3L, 3L, 3L, 3L))
18:46 colomon 7625597484987
18:46 colomon rakudo: say 3 ** 3 ** 3
18:46 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«7625597484987␤»
18:46 colomon where am I losing the last 3 there?
18:46 colomon oh, right.
18:47 colomon right-associative, that is.
18:48 colomon errr, that's going to be a lot bigger than 2 ↑↑ 5 was....
18:48 * colomon has finally given Math::BigInt a problem big enough to make it go very slow.
18:49 colomon very slow indeed
18:50 flussence_ I don't think the answer will fit into RAM :)
18:50 takadonet flussence_:  depend which machine :)
18:50 plobsing joined #perl6
18:51 colomon is that why my MBP is starting to smoke?
18:51 colomon killed it before answer, sorry.
18:52 takadonet colomon: running out of ram?
18:53 colomon I don't know, but I was trying to get work done, so letting a pointless math problem trample the machine's processing and RAM seemed a poor idea.
18:53 colomon The cooling fan definitely kicked in.
18:54 dalek roast: 3a34f01 | (Fitz Elliott)++ | S04-declarations/my.t:
18:54 dalek roast: [S04/my.t] fix and unfudge passing test for RT #63588 (global vars visible inside class)
18:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3a34f01466
18:54 felliott is there anything more to #63588?
18:55 felliott otherwise, I'll close it
18:55 dukeleto colomon: nice work on Math::BigInt and friends
18:56 PerlJam colomon++ what dukeleto said.    Though I have to tell you that I keep waiting for the "and now this is built-in" post  :)
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19:03 colomon PerlJam: last time I talked about it with pmichaud, he was worried (with some justification) about slowing down  Rakudo further.
19:04 colomon So I've got no plans to try to get Math::BigInt in place at this time.
19:04 colomon but give me a few days, and I'll probably take a stab at implementing Math::FatRat...  ;)
19:04 fmerges left #perl6
19:04 PerlJam colomon: Sure, it's just if life were like a movie when I'm guessing the future plot changes, that seemed like a natural progression  :)
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19:07 colomon PerlJam: believe me, I'd love to get it in Rakudo proper.  It would certainly be more elegant...
19:09 pmichaud if adding BigInt doesn't slow down the existing parts of Rakudo, I have absolutely no problem with it.
19:10 colomon oh.
19:10 pmichaud I don't mind if BigInt is slow, I just mind if it slows down what we already have.  :)
19:10 colomon understood.
19:11 colomon well, I'll keep that in mind, and talk with more about it in a few days, then.
19:11 pmichaud sounds great
19:11 PerlJam What does python use for arbitrary precission arithmetic?  The python is *fast*
19:12 jnthn We already have the checks in place, iirc.
19:12 jnthn Promoting to BigInt where we today promote to Num is likely not too big a deal.
19:12 colomon jnthn: not really.  we do calculations in Num, and then switch back to Int if they fit.
19:12 jnthn Oh.
19:12 PerlJam ah, gmp of course
19:13 colomon that's not at all the same as doing them in proper Int form internally.
19:13 jnthn I'm still not really too taken with those being the same type.
19:13 jnthn But I guess people can use int if they want speed.
19:14 jnthn Trouble is that then we force people into type annotations.
19:14 colomon though I guess we could do what we do now, and then just redo the calculation if the result would overflow an int.
19:14 pmichaud I think the Perl 6 vision was that Int would have two reprs behind it (one fast, one big) and would internally switch as needed
19:14 pmichaud not that there'd be a single BigInt repr
19:14 colomon Ack, it needs clever scheme, and right now I should be worrying about $work.
19:14 colomon +1
19:15 dalek roast: e6a9f12 | (Fitz Elliott)++ | S03-operators/overflow.t:
19:15 dalek roast: [overflow.t] add missing utility functions so tests pass; update plan;
19:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e6a9f12cf6
19:15 jnthn pmichaud: Ooh, REPR switching...
19:15 jnthn ...that could be, er, evil. :)
19:15 pmichaud basically, Int is a type wrapper around multiple "integer" types
19:15 pmichaud perhaps like   Numeric is a type wrapper around Int + Rat + Num
19:16 jnthn Yes, but "type wrapper" is clearly defined there. Numeric is a role and the others do it. :)
19:16 jnthn That could be a viable solution here though, perhaps.
19:17 pmichaud Right, I mean it in a handwavy sort of sense.
19:17 jnthn :)
19:17 jnthn Yes, the trouble is that the hands have never not waved on this issue yet. ;)
19:17 jnthn I suspect we can come up with some sane REPR-y thing though.
19:17 pmichaud well, maybe *your* hands haven't :-)
19:18 jnthn :P
19:18 pmichaud but istr that timtoady++'s hands have
19:18 PerlJam Is there some sort of XS <-> Rakudo bridge somewhere?
19:19 jnthn pmichaud: Maybe I should search the ir clogs... :)
19:19 jnthn PerlJam: Blizkost is...sorta...ish. :)
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19:19 PerlJam sortaish is good enough for me for now  :)
19:19 jnthn I mean, you can use Perl 5 modules that are XS ones using it.
19:20 jnthn I dunno if that's what you were thinking of though. :)
19:20 PerlJam This talk of "fast/big ints" has me wondering how to use PDL directly
19:21 * jnthn goes to prep for tomorrow's class a bit
19:22 solarion left #perl6
19:24 Tene PerlJam: if you're just looking for C interop, look at Zavolaj.
19:25 plobsing left #perl6
19:25 PerlJam I don't know that PDL has an api exactly.  In fact, I think it does not.
19:25 dalek roast: 32dd626 | moritz++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
19:25 dalek roast: unfudge passing tests
19:25 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/32dd626242
19:26 PerlJam But I haven't looked at PDLs insides in a long while.
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19:44 dukeleto PerlJam: TimToady was talking about how "subrectangles" in Perl 6 replace piddles
19:44 cosimo joined #perl6
19:46 dalek roast: 5b5d98a | moritz++ | S03-metaops/reduce.t:
19:46 dalek roast: [reduce.t] tests for RT #76110
19:46 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5b5d98ac2b
19:58 moritz_ rakudo: my $c = 0; sub called($ignored) { $c = 1 }; use Test; dies_ok { called pi = 4 }; say $c
19:58 p6eval rakudo fcc46e: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤0␤»
19:59 moritz_ why the heck do I get Bool::True for this last output?
19:59 moritz_ locally, that is
20:00 colomon :\
20:00 moritz_ a, I was stupid
20:00 moritz_ I had a , after dies_ok, not a ;
20:01 moritz_ now both tests fail. Huh.
20:03 dalek roast: 2d2be1c | moritz++ | S03-operators/assign.t:
20:03 dalek roast: [assign.t] two (failing) tests for RT #77142
20:03 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2d2be1cd5a
20:03 moritz_ somebody please check this commit to roast
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20:05 jdhore out of curiousity, can perl6/rakudo-star do most of the stuff Perl 5 can do?
20:06 Su-Shee much, muche more. or the same stuff more easily.
20:08 jdhore Well, I was more meaning, besides missing most of CPAN, is there anything from Perl5 that i'd currently miss in Perl6?
20:08 moritz_ speed
20:08 saaki speed =(
20:08 moritz_ and robust IO
20:08 colomon speed
20:08 jdhore ah :(
20:08 colomon errr, heredocs and forms, too.
20:09 * moritz_ never used forms in p5 either
20:11 jdhore I've never heard of forms and heredocs (unless that's POD docs inside actual perl modules), but i'm still kind of a Perl noob.
20:12 moritz_ heredocs start with <<MARKER in p5, and end with MARKER on a line of its own
20:12 moritz_ they are just string literals with a custom delimiter
20:12 jdhore ah
20:12 * [Coke] wonders if anyone has ported damian's perl6::format to perl 6.
20:12 coldhead joined #perl6
20:12 moritz_ [Coke]: mathw has started, I think
20:13 [Coke] yay.
20:14 colomon heredocs are awesome, and p6 heredocs are supposed to be even better, but they're not supported in Rakudo yet.
20:15 moritz_ I think niecza does them so
20:15 moritz_ niecza: say Q:to<foo>␤some stuff␤foo
20:15 p6eval niecza v1-209-ga7cd075: OUTPUT«some stuff␤␤»
20:16 moritz_ \o/
20:16 moritz_ sorear++
20:16 flatwhatson joined #perl6
20:16 moritz_ and TimToady++
20:16 flussence_ niecza: my $x = Q:to<foo>;␤    some stuff␤  foo␤say $x.perl
20:17 p6eval niecza v1-209-ga7cd075: OUTPUT«"    some stuff␤"␤»
20:17 flussence_ hasn't got the whitespace magic stuff, but it's still impressive :)
20:20 * masak submits nieczabug
20:20 masak :)
20:22 dalek roast: 2be4bce | moritz++ | S32-str/split.t:
20:22 dalek roast: [split.t] tests for RT #63066
20:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2be4bcefcf
20:22 colomon You know, I thought the whitespace magic was p6's killer feature.  (back in 2003, that is.  ;)
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20:25 PerlJam I thought p6 had two killer features:  grammars and a nice OOP system.  The first one is still a killer feature but the second one seems to have had enough time to leak out into the world
20:25 flussence_ (I've "almost" got .indent done btw, "just" need to figure out how to handle \t properly :)
20:25 PerlJam flussence++
20:25 y3llow joined #perl6
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20:26 masak flussence_: cool! that's great news.
20:26 masak if you feel the need to air ideas for how to implement that (or how to make S32/Str clearer), we're here for you.
20:26 PerlJam flussence_: What's the problem with \t exactly?  And how can we help? :)
20:27 masak the problem is that there's a complicated invariant to be upheld between a \t and a certain number of spaces.
20:28 masak "\t".indent(4) eq "\t    ", but "\t".indent(8) eq "\t\t"
20:28 masak and outdenting is tricky, too.
20:29 PerlJam whoa, is is a requirement that .indent generate tabs?
20:29 flussence_ I look a look at the Text::Tabs takadonet++ wrote, it's a bit verbose but I get the general idea of how to do it
20:30 pmichaud PerlJam: if tabs are present, I think .indent is supposed to preserve/extend them
20:31 takadonet flussence_: I never did finish it and I was simply doing line by line converting from the p5 version
20:31 takadonet i'm happy someone else is finishing it
20:32 PerlJam preservation I get, but extending I'm not so sure about.
20:32 PerlJam And I just checked my copy of the spec and it only says "C<$steps> number of spaces have been added to each line"
20:33 PerlJam though, I guess "consistent with leading whitespace" could be interpretted to mean "add tabs if the string starts with tab"
20:34 PerlJam okay, never mind me  :)
20:35 * PerlJam wonders about other leading whitespace though
20:36 PerlJam if the line starts with a unicode non-breaking space, does that mean that .indent will add NBSs rather than space characters?
20:37 cafesofie left #perl6
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20:41 pmichaud in the past, I've found .indent to conceptually be very much a dwimmy sort of construct
20:41 pmichaud so I'd think "yes"
20:41 pmichaud i.e., it's past descriptions imply that the dwimminess knob is turned up fairly high
20:43 PerlJam I guess the requirement that they all be the same is a concession to implementors for making that easy  :)
20:43 PerlJam otherwise you'd have to have crazy logic for all of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_(punctuation)#Spaces_in_Unicode
20:43 kst joined #perl6
20:44 pmichaud "Perl exists to torment the implementors on behalf of the users."
20:44 pmichaud or something like that.
20:46 PerlJam flussence_: where is your implementation of .indent?
20:47 flussence_ right now, here: https://github.com/flussence/p6-misc/blob/master/indent.p6
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21:01 dalek roast: f45e8fe | (Fitz Elliott)++ | S32-str/split.t:
21:01 dalek roast: [split.t] fix typo in test
21:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f45e8fef79
21:01 * mkramer is fascinated by the unicode spaces table
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21:09 moritz_ felliott++
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21:23 PerlJam flussence_: https://gist.github.com/804840  I updated a comment and added a case for indenting where the string starts with a sequence consisting only of some other space character.  No tests though.
21:28 flussence_ wait, is that default{} inside when{} correct?
21:29 Mowah left #perl6
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21:31 masak flussence_: you can put a default {} anywhere.
21:31 flussence_ huh, I never knew that!
21:31 masak 'given' and 'when/default' are completely decoupled.
21:32 moritz_ you can also do  for @list { when ... {  }; default { } }
21:32 masak 'given' is just 'OK, we'll use this value as $_' (or whatever signature you pass into the pblick)
21:32 PerlJam flussence_: actually that was a cut-n-paste error  :)
21:32 masak 'when' is just 'smartmatch $_ against this expression'
21:33 masak as moritz_ points out, 'given' is a kind of loop.
21:33 masak (that only iterates once)
21:33 PerlJam flussence_: fixed.  But I'm glad you learned something from my error  :)
21:34 wallberg left #perl6
21:34 masak rakudo: say "$_ is odd" when * % 2 for 15..20
21:34 p6eval rakudo d3e9a3: OUTPUT«15 is odd␤17 is odd␤19 is odd␤»
21:34 masak \o/
21:35 flussence_ either way, adding that line causes test #2 to infinite loop. weird :/
21:36 plainhao left #perl6
21:37 flussence_ oh, got it
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21:45 kst joined #perl6
21:45 V15170R rakudo: sub prefix:< > ($val is rw) { $val = Mu }; my $a = 0; say  $a;
21:45 p6eval rakudo d3e9a3: OUTPUT«0␤»
21:46 V15170R rakudo: sub prefix:<_> ($val is rw) { $val = Mu }; my $a = 0; say  _$a;
21:46 p6eval rakudo d3e9a3: OUTPUT«Mu()␤»
21:48 flussence_ .u 2000
21:48 phenny U+2000 EN QUAD ( )
21:48 flussence_ .u 2001
21:48 phenny U+2001 EM QUAD ( )
21:48 flussence_ not ok 12 - Default to prepending ASCII spaces for mixed, non-tab leading whitespace characters # :(
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23:07 snarkyboojum ni hao :)
23:11 wallberg left #perl6
23:12 masak 你好, snarkyboojum.
23:13 REPLeffect joined #perl6
23:13 snarkyboojum oh hej, masak :)
23:14 masak :)
23:17 * diakopter sighs at owning a Sandy Bridge CPU in a mobo with 4 defective 3Gb/s SATA ports.  I'm assuming it will be 4-6 months before Asus/Intel fix it :(
23:17 diakopter *effectively* defective ports (I do realize the problem is with the chipset)
23:17 kst left #perl6
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23:19 jdhore :(
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23:26 masak pmichaud: is http://pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakpar.txt still open for spelling suggestions? if so, s/noticably/noticeably/
23:26 pmichaud masak: it's already been posted, but thanks :)
23:27 pmichaud I'll fix it when it goes to pmthium, though.
23:27 pmichaud (if it gets posted there)
23:28 plobsing left #perl6
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23:30 masak pmichaud: I'm not done reading yet, but it's a very good read so far.
23:30 pmichaud there are some responses already on parrot-dev
23:31 masak ooh
23:34 pmichaud http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/parrot-dev/2011-January/005422.html  is the start of the archive thread, if you want it :)
23:34 felliott left #perl6
23:34 pmichaud oops
23:34 pmichaud http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/parrot-dev/2011-January/005410.html
23:35 pmichaud (grabbed wrong message)
23:35 masak thanks -- I'm reading it right now, in my email client.
23:36 masak 'there must be something wrong with "now"' -- yes, it creates objects, and that's very expensive.
23:38 masak oh, pmichaud++ has a response outlining that further down :)
23:40 felliott joined #perl6
23:41 sorear good * #perl6
23:41 masak very interesting thread. I hope to see more of it.
23:41 masak good *, sorear.
23:42 masak good night, #perl6 :)
23:42 masak left #perl6
23:42 f00li5h is now known as f00li5h[HireMe]
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23:45 sorear pmichaud: Woah, am I to understand Parrot is seeping into curricula?
23:47 plobsing left #perl6
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23:50 sorear flussence_: I hear you've thought a lot  about whitesace in here docs.
23:53 flussence_ as I understand the spec for heredocs, the whitespace rule looks identical to .indent(*)
23:54 sorear I've heard some people say that dedenting is sensitive to how the string is built
23:55 sorear e.g. in my $foo = '   bar' ; say qq:to(pie)\n$foo\n   pie
23:57 flussence_ hm, I see
23:59 flussence_ IMO the whitespace trimming should happen before any interpolation
23:59 flussence_ I can see how it might complicate things either way, though
23:59 sorear how do you suggest to accomplish that?

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