Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-02-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 TimToady there's no jumping backward
00:01 TimToady and in the forward direction, it's just a set of conditionals
00:01 TimToady if you really want a redispatch, arrange to re-enter the switch
00:02 dalek nqp: 4dd9166 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
00:02 dalek nqp: Add a slot in the s-table for Parrot v-table mapped routines; we'll stash 'em by v-table index so the lookup should be fast. Also, marking.
00:02 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4dd916696f
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00:19 sorear TimToady: so... no jumptable optimization in the forward direction?
00:19 sorear TimToady: it bugs me that the jump data effectively has to be emitted twice
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00:30 cognominal jnthn, have you update the parrot version, trying to compile nqp, I get dyld: lazy symbol binding failed: Symbol not found: _PARROT_GC_WRITE_BARRIER
00:30 cognominal *updated
00:31 Tene jnthn: me too
00:32 jnthn Hm
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00:32 jnthn Looks like bacek++ added the barrier writes and didn't bump it... :)
00:33 jnthn I know it works against a later revision so...moment. :)
00:33 Tene jnthn: all the adverb stuff in Perl 6 grates on me, fwiw.
00:33 [Coke] anyone able to help with an nqp-rx issue? http://trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1886
00:34 dalek nqp: 8fbefcc | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
00:34 dalek nqp: Add an op for publishing a set of Parrot v-table overrides. Resolves names to indexes once here, to avoid doing it every invocation.
00:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8fbefccfa2
00:34 dalek nqp: 3e4373a | jnthn++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
00:34 dalek nqp: Implement support for adding Parrot v-table overrides to NQPClassHOW. Will need to somehow be marked Parrot-specific in the future.
00:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3e4373ae0b
00:34 dalek nqp: 4f1fcec | jnthn++ | src/pmc/rakudoobject.pmc:
00:34 dalek nqp: Make get_[integer|number|string] overridable. More to come soon; it's just yak shaving now. Along with the patches that led up to this, it fixes the 52-vtable.t regression, mostly unblocks moving Match to 6model and a bunch of other good stuff.
00:34 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4f1fcec068
00:35 dalek nqp: d0df731 | jnthn++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
00:35 dalek nqp: Bump to a newer Parrot that has the write barrier bits.
00:35 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d0df7310e3
00:35 jnthn [Coke]: My only immediate guess is that String lives in the Parrot HLL and you are in a Tcl HLL, but I think the PMCs are visible from everywhere anyway so...hmm.
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00:35 [Coke] jnthn: sadly, this used to work, but broke some months ago.
00:35 jnthn Ah :(
00:35 cognominal jnthn, that on Mac OS X 10.6.6 btw not that I think it is relevant
00:35 cognominal *that's
00:35 jnthn cognominal: No, it's not. d0df731 should help you.
00:36 jnthn [Coke]: Could look at if/how P6metaclass has changed but I'm not aware of any changes to it over the last several months.
00:37 jnthn [Coke]: I'm guessing none of the v-tables one would expect it to inherit work?
00:37 sorear if it's just a matter of updating parrot, it ought to be bisectable
00:39 dukeleto parrot master currently does not have the generational_gc, just fyi
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00:39 jnthn dukeleto: Right, but it does have the write barrier bits so the code stands a chance of working when generational_gc goes back in (hopefully soon, since it seems like an overall performance win).
00:40 dukeleto jnthn: yes, just wanted to clarify in case some missed that drama
00:41 jnthn dukeleto: I didn't backlog over it.
00:41 dukeleto jnthn: we are planning to merge gen_gc2 just after the 3.1 release, iirc
00:41 jnthn dukeleto: Ah, OK, so soon. \o/
00:42 jnthn I'd have been disappointed if there were plans to hold it off for a long time.
00:42 * [Coke] begins the soul-crushing attempt to bisect this trac ticket.
00:42 jnthn But putting out at least one release with the write barrier code writable but not requried makes sense, I guess.
00:42 * [Coke] gets some whiskey to smooth things over.
00:42 dukeleto jnthn: generational_gc got merged to master a bit early, so we pulled it out and now it is called gen_gc2, and is getting more performance + stability improvements
00:42 jnthn OK :)
00:43 * dukeleto pours [Coke] three stiff drinks
00:43 jnthn I'm still being happy and surprised that it's so close. :)
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00:43 dukeleto jnthn: yes, it was merged with unoptimized register access, which was still a huge win on average, but made certain things much slower, so we unmerged it and are polishing it
00:44 * [Coke] immediately gives up, as his first attempt is a sha that doesn't even build.
00:45 jnthn [Coke]: Looking at https://github.com/parrot/parrot/commits/m​aster/runtime/parrot/library/P6object.pir it seems the last change to P6metaclass itself was in Sep 10, 2010. (One later change, but just removing svn $Id$ tags)
00:46 dukeleto [Coke]: you need to tell your bisect script to ignore sha1's that don't build
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00:47 dukeleto [Coke]: exit 125
00:47 dukeleto [Coke]: exit code 125 tells git "this code is bad, try another sha1"
00:49 [Coke] dukeleto: I do not have a bisect script. and so far I've had six different sha's fail. fun times.
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00:51 [Coke] ... that is, I'm trying to find a single build I can mark as good. (so even if I had a script, it wouldn't help yet.)
00:53 dukeleto [Coke]: go back far, to a release that worked
00:54 dukeleto [Coke]: i.e. 2.0 or something
00:54 dukeleto [Coke]: or 1.0 :)
00:55 dukeleto [Coke]: writing a script to find a single revision that will build will definitely come in handy in the future
00:56 dukeleto [Coke]: http://github.com/dustin/bindir​/blob/master/git-test-sequence may be useful for you
00:56 dukeleto [Coke]: or https://github.com/leto/Uti​l/blob/master/bin/git-exec
00:57 dukeleto [Coke]: you may have to tweak them, but 80% of the code is written for you
00:57 jnthn phenny: tell pmichaud in theory nom has just one test file regression over nqp-rx now. Need to discuss packages a bit with you before I know that one will be fixed. :)
00:57 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
00:57 jnthn phenny: tell pmichaud oops, s/nom/nqp/ :)
00:57 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
00:58 [Coke] jnthn++
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01:00 jnthn D'oh, my patch to NQPClassHOW totally ignored inheritance. :/
01:00 jnthn Will fix tomorrow. :)
01:01 sorear so apparently I managed to write a heredoc dedenter that takes O(infinity)
01:01 sorear this is not quite as impressive as my exponential time line number calculator.  but close!
01:01 jnthn sub heredoc-dedenter($stuff) { loop { } } # I bet yours was longer than this... :P
01:02 sorear It was actually more a case of s/^^ \s*//g
01:06 dalek niecza: f47e045 | sorear++ | TODO:
01:06 dalek niecza: Add priority stuff to TODO
01:06 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f47e045153
01:06 dalek niecza: 5c5b2cc | sorear++ | / (3 files):
01:06 dalek niecza: Implement here document dedenting
01:06 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5c5b2cce8b
01:09 * jnthn -> rest
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01:17 sorear TimToady: ping
01:21 sorear TimToady: consider "my @foo = (1,2,3); sub bar { @foo }; (bar)[0] = 5"
01:21 sorear TimToady: in Perl 5 this is an error; the return creates readonly copies of the array elements
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01:22 sorear TimToady: does Perl 6 do the same thing?  S06:2326 isn't entirely clear
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02:01 dalek niecza: 404eec8 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
02:01 dalek niecza: Implement $.foo, @.foo contextness
02:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/404eec8139
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02:23 dalek niecza: f1018f8 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
02:23 dalek niecza: Implement %(pairs) and constant @foo = ...
02:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f1018f84ec
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02:39 TimToady sorear: that's what we call decontainerization, and p6 is supposed to do it too
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02:42 kst` is now known as kst
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02:52 sorear TimToady: I don't really understand how it should work
02:53 sorear TimToady: my @foo; sub get_list { @foo }; get_list.push(12) # Does this work?
02:53 sorear What is get_list.WHAT?
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02:57 sorear TimToady: if not-being-rw loses the Array-ness of the returned value, then I'm having trouble imagining how has @.foo could work
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03:11 TimToady to the first approximation you're returning a Capture that is marked not to allow rw binding (unless the function is declared rw, of course)
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03:30 colomon Trying to figure out how to do a case insensitive string comparison in C/C++ is making me want to cry.
03:31 colomon I mean, look at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11635​/case-insensitive-string-comparison-in-c
03:32 colomon "All you need to do is typedef a new string over basic_string, and provide it with your own custom char_traits that compare case insensitively."
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03:33 colomon I mean, it's bad enough to have to use a cascade of ifs where a simple given / when would do in p6.  But to have to define a special function to do the string comparison?   sigh.
03:36 sorear TimToady: get_list[1] = 2 doesn't do any rw binding to the returned capture
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04:35 dalek niecza: de9656e | sorear++ | / (6 files):
04:35 dalek niecza: Implement callsame/callwith
04:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/de9656e4d0
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05:33 dalek niecza: 79b8cea | sorear++ | / (5 files):
05:33 dalek niecza: Change ? quantifier to not make a list
05:33 dalek niecza:
05:33 dalek niecza: THIS CHANGE WILL REQUIRE EXTENSIVE YAK SHAVING IN NieczaActions WHEN
05:33 dalek niecza: THE BOOTSTRAP IS NEXT UPDATED
05:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/79b8cea0a6
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06:07 dalek niecza: a06dd3c | sorear++ | / (10 files):
06:07 dalek niecza: Mergeback and factor out OpHelpers/GetOptLong
06:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a06dd3c568
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06:24 sorear TimToady: Is there an explicit spec for "respects quotes in a shell-like fashion" (S02:3474), or do you want us to just emulate sh?
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06:29 TimToady just do sh for now
06:29 sorear how much of sh?
06:29 sorear it seems a bit silly to emulate quote backslashing, for instance
06:30 TimToady mostly just single and double quotes
06:30 sorear I could do " protects until ", ' protects until ' as a very simple case
06:31 TimToady "$foo" is one word, but bare $foo can split to multiple words
06:31 sorear I guess only literal quotes count
06:32 sorear not \x22 or $var_with_quote
06:32 sorear is anyone using the "method postprocess" stuff in STD?  I'd like to change it to a more useful form
06:32 TimToady yeah, we're not trying to do 582 levels of reparsing
06:33 TimToady nah, postprocess is just a placeholder for a real implementation :)
06:34 TimToady one could say that for most of STD :)
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06:57 sorear Does q:x have any special quoting magic or is it just like run() of q ?
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07:08 TimToady just run of q
07:08 TimToady p5's qx is more like qqx
07:15 sorear How shound it behave with list/item context?
07:22 sorear Is <<">> an error?
07:22 TimToady not sure; would be nice not to slurp if we can be lazy
07:22 TimToady probably error
07:22 TimToady well, <<">>">> isn't :)
07:23 sorear You sure about that?
07:23 sorear std: <<">>">>
07:23 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Confused at /tmp/NIlVY5O5rg line 1:␤------> [32m<<">>[33m⏏[31m">>[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤   statement modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED
07:23 p6eval ..00:01 120m␤»
07:23 TimToady if we can do it in one pass parsing, we probably should
07:24 TimToady current behavior is rather p5esque there...
07:24 TimToady that is to say, smelly
07:24 sorear ok.
07:24 TimToady might need to define yet another DSL there...
07:25 sorear it can probably just be done with escape:sym<"> and escape:sym<'> in ww1
07:25 TimToady if we make that easy to tweak, the people can pretty easily declare other shellish capabilities
07:25 sorear although that might make ww0 tricky
07:26 sorear yet another DSL?  like how?
07:27 TimToady well, it's essentially an inside out language where normal text is autoquoted but has embedded constructs that are treated specially
07:27 * TimToady waves hands vaguely
07:28 sorear I think you're thinking of $~Q
07:29 sorear the only question is whether the user can somehow "augment" STD::Q::ww1
07:29 sorear obviously they can't modify the role itself
07:34 TimToady yes, :ww is probably the name of the DSL in question, such as it is...
07:34 * TimToady is too tired to keep it all quite straight in his brane tonight...
07:37 TimToady with the postprocess stuff it gets a bit more function compositional and a bit less DSLy, but I still have suspections that we should avoid two-pass parsing whenever possible
07:37 TimToady been burned by it too many times in p5
07:38 sorear AFAICT qww *cannot* work on pure Str postprocessing
07:38 sorear if it did, then $str eq '"' would mess up <<$str $str>> interpolation
07:38 TimToady ja
07:39 sorear right now I'm postprocessing ASTs
07:39 sorear (and punting on qww for now)
07:40 TimToady is almost like bare $foo interpolates before .words-ish, then quotes are expanded
07:41 * TimToady should probably hit the hay
07:41 sorear sleep well
07:42 TimToady お先に。。。
07:42 TimToady thunk &
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07:57 dalek niecza: fa63713 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
07:57 dalek niecza: Enable parsing of qww et al, tweak STD postprocess methods
07:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fa637134b5
07:57 dalek niecza: 1f02f87 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
07:57 dalek niecza: Implement qw[], overhaul postprocessing
07:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1f02f87f1d
07:57 * sorear -> sleep
08:05 moritz_ good mroning
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08:23 dalek nqp: 4b8ac4f | bacek++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
08:23 dalek nqp: Add more write barriers.
08:23 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4b8ac4f708
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08:45 dalek nqp: 2cef296 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
08:45 dalek nqp: cc_hasjit is gone, remove it from Makefile
08:45 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2cef296e48
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10:13 dalek niecza: c9e137b | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
10:13 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] added while
10:13 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c9e137b821
10:13 dalek niecza: 4510adb | pmurias++ | simple-tests/ (2 files):
10:13 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] added missing files (tests)
10:13 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4510adb2c8
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11:21 masak bom dia, #perl6
11:21 tadzik dzień dobry
11:21 masak ;)
11:22 moritz_ good not-morning-anymore, masak and tadzik :-)
11:22 tadzik morning, noon, it's the weekend!
11:22 * masak 's sleep e kass
11:23 masak weekend dobry :P
11:24 tadzik :)
11:26 dalek nqp: 20185cf | moritz++ | / (4 files):
11:26 dalek nqp: incorporate command line parser from https://github.com/moritz/nqp-cl-parser
11:26 dalek nqp:
11:26 dalek nqp: It is now built and tested along with nqp, but not yet used by HLL::Compiler
11:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/20185cff66
11:26 dalek nqp: 47a56ec | moritz++ | src/HLL/CommandLine.pm:
11:26 dalek nqp: POD for HL::CommandLine
11:26 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/47a56ec61a
11:28 masak wow, this is huge: http://manu.sporny.org/2011/public-domain-genome/
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11:33 Tene masak: I got my kit from 23andme a couple of days ago; I'm sending it back on Monday.
11:33 Tene My gf got the results from hers back a couple of weeks ago; it's pretty fascinating.
11:36 masak ok, sounds like I should order one too, then.
11:37 MayDaniel joined #perl6
11:37 Tene It's $200 right now.  When I got it for my gf back in December, it was $100.  Before that, it was $400.  Looks like they've done the $100 sale about once a year or so, if cost is an issue here.
11:38 Tene https://github.com/msporny/dna/pull/1 is pretty hilarious
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11:41 masak Tene: :)
11:43 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
11:44 moritz_ are there any public tools that help you analyze your DNA?
11:46 Tene 23andme doesn't give a full dna sequencing, just a dump of abot 10M SNPs
11:46 Tene The best place to get information on these SNPs is http://snpedia.com/
11:46 Tene I'm pretty sure there are some open-soruce tools to pull info from snpedia
11:51 masak I wonder if it'd be worth developing a Perl 6 tool or two for analyzing those SNPs.
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11:54 moritz_ isn't that what bioperl6 is for?
11:56 masak one might hope.
12:05 masak I was thinking a bit more short-term than that, though.
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12:08 * moritz_ had the impression that bioperl6 actually existed, though maybe only partially
12:09 masak I really don't know much about its status at all; should ask pyrimidine at some point.
12:09 dalek nqp: 8f27940 | moritz++ | src/HLL/CommandLine.pm:
12:09 dalek nqp: [commandline] get rid of an attribute
12:09 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8f27940182
12:09 dalek nqp: 69f3951 | moritz++ | src/cheats/nqp-builtins.pir:
12:09 dalek nqp: ok() is now a bit closr to what TAP expects (descriptions instead of comments)
12:09 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/69f3951f2c
12:10 Rotwang hi, is there some lwp module for perl6?
12:10 moritz_ nqp: for pir::split('|', "foo") { say($_) }
12:10 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤»
12:10 moritz_ Rotwang: yes. See http://modules.perl6.org/
12:11 Rotwang moritz_: can't find it there
12:11 Rotwang there are some modules to create web apps
12:11 moritz_ Rotwang: it's right there, perl6-lwp-simple
12:12 Rotwang moritz_: thanks [;
12:12 Rotwang must have overlooked it
12:12 moritz_ happens :-)
12:12 Rotwang by the way perl6 is sooo different than perl5
12:13 Rotwang and terribly complicated
12:14 Su-Shee ignore the complicated part, you can program it like an improved p5 easily and without bad concsious :)
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12:15 pmurias hi
12:15 masak pmurias: \o
12:15 masak Rotwang: what Su-Shee said. the simple bits are actually simpler. :)
12:15 pmurias any papers i should load on my kindle to make a 5hour train journey more interesting?
12:15 masak pmurias: bananas in space?
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12:17 masak pmurias: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2011-02-11#i_3279701 for good resolution, apparently.
12:17 Rotwang btw. is perl grammars named from computability theory?
12:17 pmurias you mean formal grammars?
12:17 Rotwang yes
12:18 masak Rotwang: I think "grammar" is a fairly established concept in CS.
12:18 Rotwang so in the essence perl grammars are more powerful than regexes?
12:18 Rotwang or are they just regexes in fancy form?
12:19 masak they are regexes with better syntax, and OO inheritance.
12:20 Su-Shee I think of grammars as a description of a ruleset to parse "stuff". and that I can inherit it.
12:20 masak the underlying regex engines look a bit different too, but that's nothing that necessarily affects the user, except through silent benefits :)
12:21 pmurias Rotwang: perl6 grammars as much more powerfull than CS regular expressions
12:22 Su-Shee Rotwang: aren't you one of the gtk-perl developers?
12:22 Rotwang Su-Shee: no, im just using it
12:23 Su-Shee "damn" :) I was just going to ask for gtk3 ;)
12:23 Rotwang [;
12:24 Su-Shee Rotwang: anyways. don't be afraid of perl6, it just looks like it bites, behind its teeths it's very fluffybunny.
12:27 Rotwang Su-Shee: yeah it looks awesome, but it is hard to learn I think
12:27 moritz_ why do you think that?
12:28 moritz_ you don't need to know everyhting about parameterized roles and macros if you just want to parse a text file
12:28 moritz_ you can still use split() and regex matches
12:29 tadzik oh hi Rotwang
12:31 tadzik Rotwang: the only hard thing imho is that there are plenty of differences from Perl 5, the Perl 6 itself is imho equally easy, or hard. It has many, many new things, yes, but they tend to be more straightforward than Perl 5 things
12:31 Su-Shee Rotwang: no, it just looks that way.
12:32 Su-Shee Rotwang: you really can ignore two thirds of the shiny stuff and use it as a cleanup version of perl5, basically just using classes and changing -> to .
12:32 Su-Shee Rotwang: a little of the sugar here and there, and that's perfectly fine perl 6 for us common folks.
12:33 tadzik Plus some of the difficult things are not yet implemented anyway
12:34 Su-Shee Rotwang: and how to use roles you'd read up at moose and smalltalk.
12:34 Su-Shee Rotwang: that's my perl6. :)
12:39 colomon moritz_: heck, you don't need to know everyhting about parameterized roles and macros to do major work on the compiler!
12:41 Rotwang [;
12:42 dalek nqp: 90092d0 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
12:42 dalek nqp: [commandline] implement | option aliases
12:42 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/90092d0dbb
12:42 jnthn oh hai o/
12:42 jnthn moritz_++ # hacking on nqp \o/
12:43 * colomon wishes his schedule was free enough to help with nqp...
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12:49 * moritz_ could use lives_ok and dies_ok in nqp
12:49 jnthn If nqp got module support, it could just have a Test.pm :)
12:52 dalek nqp: bc69ca5 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
12:52 dalek nqp: "revision" is now always 1, use git_describe instead
12:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bc69ca541c
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14:33 moritz_ nqp: my %h; %h<a> := 1; say("alive")
14:33 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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14:41 masak I just saw "Inception" for the second time. anyone else drawn the parallel between Limbo and the Bottom type ⊥? :)
14:42 moritz_ masak: NERD
14:42 moritz_ sorry, had to say that :-)
14:43 masak moritz_: :P
14:44 masak that whole film caters to the nerd stereotype, at least as much as does 'the Matrix'.
14:44 tadzik The „shame they didn't do sequels” Matrix? ;)
14:44 masak yeah.
14:45 jnthn nqp: say(KnowHOW.HOW.name(KnowHOW))
14:45 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('HOW')␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:4)␤»
14:45 masak normal people leave the movie theater saying "ok, I think I followed... kinda... sometimes... it was complicated." -- computer scientists leave the movie theater saying "do you see NOW what I'm having to deal with at work?"
14:45 jnthn nqp: say proto sub foo() { * }
14:45 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say proto "␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 635 (src/cheats/hll-compiler.pir:206)␤»
14:45 jnthn Ah.
14:45 moritz_ jnthn: the 'nqp' target is still really nqp-rx
14:45 moritz_ I should change that.
14:45 jnthn moritz_: Yeah, that's what I was checking :)
14:46 moritz_ how do I translate .lex '$?FILES', $P0   to nqp?
14:46 moritz_ my $?FILES := ...   ?
14:46 jnthn Yeah, provided it parses it.
14:47 moritz_ I feared that you might say that :-)
14:47 masak ooh, and they're playing Édith Piaf in the credits -- subtly signalling "time to wake up (from the movie)"!
14:47 moritz_ masak: I liked that too :-)
14:47 masak not sure I grok'd that the first time around.
14:49 jnthn moritz_: Well, could always make it parse it. :)
14:50 moritz_ :-)
14:50 jnthn std: my $?FILES := "foo";
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14:50 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
14:50 jnthn Of course, it should only be bound at "compile time". :)
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14:53 masak next step, I guess, would be to understand how the code in https://github.com/karthick18/in​ception/blob/master/inception.c works.
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15:27 sorear good * #perl6
15:27 masak *, sorear
15:28 masak I'd like to know what can be done at present, if one were to read in the SNP information released by msporny, and correlated it with known public information about SNPs.
15:28 masak I'd like things such as "blue eyes", "curly hair" to fall out.
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15:33 sorear TimToady: true or false?  when 1 { ...; proceed }; when 2 { ... }; when 3 { ... }; # requires a chain of comparisons in *addition* to the jump table, for handling proceed?
15:35 * masak thinks so
15:35 masak the jump table is basically a "cache" for speeding up the normal case, no?
15:36 sorear I guess
15:36 masak and any number of situations can invalidate that cache.
15:36 masak I guess sufficiently complicated 'when' expressions might, too.
15:38 masak or having a mix of normal statements and 'when' expressions.
15:38 masak or gotos :)
15:39 masak std: given rand { when * < .1 { ... }; loop { when .1 < * .3 { ... } }; default { ... } }
15:39 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing block at /tmp/ZD6xBQ5wk1 line 1:␤------> [32mwhen * < .1 { ... }; loop { when .1 < * [33m⏏[31m.3 { ... } }; default { ... } }[0m␤    expecting any of:␤  bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
15:39 masak std: given rand { when * < .1 { ... }; loop { when .1 < * < .3 { ... } }; default { ... } }
15:39 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
15:41 masak Perl 6 is cool just for the mischievousness allowed by the liberal way things fit together :P
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15:56 * masak is writing the p4 post now
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16:53 * moritz_ watches the planetsix feed for news
16:54 moritz_ rakudo: say $*FILE
16:54 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
16:54 moritz_ rakudo: say $?FILE
16:54 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?FILE' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/bZmLqtBwOT:22)␤»
16:54 moritz_ rakudo: say $?FILES
16:54 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?FILES' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/tmLLuDezV7:22)␤»
16:55 moritz_ rakudo: say $*FILES
16:55 p6eval rakudo :  ( no output )
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17:03 masak moritz_: I might get done today, but no promises. :)
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17:04 masak I need to re-run the all-against-all harness, because it didn't capture the results correctly, and I was careless enough not to check that at the beginning.
17:11 dalek nqp: 14ff770 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
17:11 dalek nqp: rewrite HLL::Compiler.evalfiles in nqp
17:11 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/14ff770996
17:23 arnsholt masak: Sounds familiar
17:23 arnsholt 'Cept in my case it was experiments for my master's of course =)
17:28 masak :)
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17:33 dalek nqp: 0bbd0c9 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
17:33 dalek nqp: remove debugging output that I accidentally left in
17:33 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0bbd0c9ab0
17:33 dalek nqp: f481aab | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
17:33 dalek nqp: rewrite addstage in nqp. Not yet tested, because it is not actually called in nqp. Tough beans.
17:33 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f481aab603
17:38 jnthn moritz_: These patches are nice to see. :-)
17:38 dalek nqp: 30d842b | jnthn++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
17:38 dalek nqp: Update bootstrap to include Parrot v-table support in NQPClassHOW.
17:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/30d842bb2d
17:38 dalek nqp: 5c5e80a | jnthn++ | src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
17:38 dalek nqp: Add v-table mapping for Bool method in Cursor, in order to rip out a special case hack.
17:39 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5c5e80a933
17:39 dalek nqp: 97c3955 | jnthn++ | Configure.pl:
17:39 dalek nqp: Optimized build seems to work out fine on Win32, so do one.
17:39 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/97c395554d
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17:47 blaze_ sup all
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17:48 moritz_ \o
17:49 masak some people seem to have extraordinary expectations on the speed of replies.
17:53 moritz_ hm?
17:55 arnsholt Drive-by IRC
17:55 moritz_ ah, I /ignore joins and quites
17:55 moritz_ *quits
17:55 masak quite.
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17:59 moritz_ hm; integrating my command line parser with the other methods in HLL::Compiler seems harder than originally thought
17:59 arnsholt Heh. My master's work has taught me all kinds of practical skills. Who'da thunk it? =D
18:00 dalek nqp: 873f08a | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
18:00 dalek nqp: improve an error message
18:00 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/873f08afb6
18:21 moritz_ nqp: try { pir::die('foo'); CATCH { say($_) } }
18:21 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤»
18:22 dalek nqp: 25c26a4 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
18:22 dalek nqp: use pure-nqp command line parser
18:22 dalek nqp:
18:22 dalek nqp: I don't know why, but it it regresses on "-o filename". However
18:22 dalek nqp: --output=filename still works.
18:22 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/25c26a4cfc
18:22 dalek nqp: 1d68f30 | moritz++ | t/hll/05-commandline.t:
18:22 dalek nqp: add a reduced case for the -o regression. The test does not exhibt the bug, so it is mostly useless :(
18:22 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1d68f30184
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18:26 moritz_ nqp: try { pir::exit(0) }; say("foo");
18:26 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
18:30 arnsholt masak: Speaking of which. I now got about 30% into my experiment before I realised the Makefile didn't actually save the scores for each fold in the experiment. FML =)
18:31 moritz_ nqp: for [1, 2, 3] -> $x { say($x) }
18:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
18:31 masak arnsholt: could be worse. could've been 70%.
18:31 arnsholt Good point =)
18:32 arnsholt It could also be on the big dataset, where a full experiment takes a day, rather than an hour or two =)
18:34 arnsholt In the meantime, I guess I'll try to put more words in my thesis
18:35 frettled «Blah blah blah conjecture blah blah blah»?
18:35 * frettled is helpful, as always.
18:36 arnsholt Indeed =D
18:36 frettled arnsholt: break a pen!
18:36 arnsholt Heehee. Thanks =)
18:36 masak I conjecture that half a pen is more difficult to write with than a whole one.
18:38 arnsholt I conjecture that it is irrelevant, since my writing is done on a keyboard O:)
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18:38 Rotwang how to install perl6 module?
18:38 Rotwang there are no makefiles
18:38 frettled iConjecture?
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18:42 moritz_ Rotwang: for example with neutro
18:45 Rotwang $ perl6
18:45 Rotwang Segmentation fault
18:45 Rotwang \:D/
18:45 moritz_ Rotwang: what did you install? how? and did you read the README?
18:45 Rotwang today is a bad day for doing perl stuff for me
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18:54 moritz_ nqp: try { pir::die("foo"); CATCH { say($_.severity) } }
18:54 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
18:54 moritz_ nqp: try { pir::die("foo"); CATCH { say($_); say($_.severity) } }
18:54 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤Method 'severity' not found for invocant of class 'Exception'␤Method 'severity' not found for invocant of class 'Exception'␤Method 'severity' not found for invocant of class 'Exception'␤Method 'severity' not found for invocant of class 'Exception'␤Method 'severity' not found fo…
18:54 moritz_ nqp: try { pir::die("foo"); CATCH { say($_); say($_<severity>) } }
18:54 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«foo␤2␤»
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19:26 masak mberends! \o/
19:27 sorear hi!
19:27 moritz_ good * everybody
19:28 * mberends back from a nice 2 week break in Slovenia and Croatia :-) Hi everyone!
19:29 moritz_ I just tried to port method command_line to nqp... what a mess
19:29 moritz_ I think I bit off more than I can chew
19:33 jnthn mberends: Hi!
19:33 jnthn mberends: Wow, break location win! :D
19:33 moritz_ it's an intangible mess
19:34 jnthn moritz_: Ouch.
19:34 jnthn moritz_: I found that sometimes it can be easier to port it bit-by-bit to NQP, using Q:PIR { ... } for some bits as a half-way step.
19:34 jnthn moritz_: Dunno if that's easy/possible for what you're doing though.
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19:35 moritz_ jnthn: I know; but that method has big jumps forwards related to exception handling...
19:35 jnthn Ah
19:35 moritz_ and I don't quite know yet how to attack it
19:35 moritz_ there's some part that I can probably rewrite, but not much
19:38 jnthn moritz_: Note that Q:PIR gets embedded directly in the output and is not in a nested block, so labels are visible between them, if they're in the same NQP-level block.
19:38 moritz_ that kinda scares me.
19:38 dalek nqp: 105de53 | jnthn++ | src/stage0/ (4 files):
19:38 dalek nqp: Another re-bootstrap needed to finally kill the get_bool hack.
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/105de53092
19:38 dalek nqp: f90cc86 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/52-vtable.t:
19:38 dalek nqp: Tests for v-table inheritance.
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f90cc8641a
19:38 dalek nqp: f191cd2 | jnthn++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
19:38 dalek nqp: Get v-table override inheritance/overriding to work.
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f191cd2e28
19:38 dalek nqp: 83b8fca | jnthn++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
19:38 dalek nqp: Fix a thinko.
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/83b8fca784
19:38 dalek nqp: fbfe364 | jnthn++ | src/stage0/ (3 files):
19:38 dalek nqp: Push Parrot v-table override inheritance updates into the bootstrap.
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fbfe364adf
19:38 dalek nqp: a3d9dff | jnthn++ | src/pmc/rakudoobject.pmc:
19:38 dalek nqp: Rip out the get_bool hack - it's just a normal Parrot v-table override now. Should be faster. Also, looking over the way Parrot does it, I suspect that 6model may now be able to dispatch PIR-level v-table overrides somewhat faster than Parrot's Class/Object PMCs. :-)
19:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a3d9dff337
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19:49 moritz_ nqp: Q:PIR { .local pmc a } Q:PIR { a = 3 }; say("alive")
19:50 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "Q:PIR { .l"␤current instr.: 'parrot;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 635 (src/cheats/hll-compiler.pir:206)␤»
19:50 moritz_ nqp: Q:PIR { .local pmc a }; Q:PIR { a = 3 }; say("alive")
19:50 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in set_integer_native()␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:4)␤»
19:50 moritz_ nqp: Q:PIR { .local pmc a }; Q:PIR { a = box 3 }; say("alive")
19:50 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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19:55 dalek nqp: 5c5b494 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
19:55 dalek nqp: rewrite parts of command_line in nqp
19:55 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5c5b4942ca
19:55 dalek nqp: 9d325a2 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
19:55 dalek nqp: restore proper usage messages
19:55 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9d325a2320
19:55 dalek nqp: b350f28 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
19:55 dalek nqp: start to port method command_line to nqp
19:55 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b350f28acb
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19:58 moritz_ I think I'll leave the rest of command_line alone for today.
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20:08 jnthn moritz_: :)
20:08 jnthn moritz_: Happy to see progress on it.
20:11 moritz_ jnthn: I'll leave the rest to the poor soul that ports the stuff to other compilers :-)
20:13 jnthn :P
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20:25 Rotwang I rebuilt parrot without optimization and now rakudo does not segfault
20:25 masak aww.
20:26 masak so my prejudice that --optimize causes segfaults is reaffirmed.
20:26 sorear jnthn: hi.
20:27 jnthn sorear: o/
20:27 sorear jnthn: I asked TimToady about how return should handle ro-ness in cases like my @x = (1,2,3); sub foo { @x }; foo[1] = 5;
20:27 sorear He gave some inscrutible answer about ro capture flags
20:27 sorear can you help me understand this?
20:28 jnthn Erm. :)
20:29 jnthn sorear: What TimToady's expectation that the above would work, or fail?
20:30 sorear jnthn: fail.
20:30 jnthn Oh. Mine was that it would work.
20:30 jnthn I could understand foo() = ...; not working
20:31 allbery_b as I understand it, unless you declare the sub as "is rw" it returns the same kind of read-only values as perl5 does
20:31 jnthn But I don't understand how the ro-ness would somehow propagate downwards into the data structure.
20:31 allbery_b (captures being the mechanism in perl6)
20:32 jnthn sorear: Unless some kind of decontainerization happens to arrays. Somehow.
20:33 sorear allbery_b: that code fails in Perl 5 though
20:33 jnthn sorear: Anyway, I don't have an answer really, sorry. I think this has come up before and I can't recall a clear answer yet on exactly how the decontainerization bits works.
20:33 moritz_ I guess it will need a semi-shallow copying
20:34 sorear jnthn: TimToady has this crazy idea that returns use _captures_
20:34 jnthn moritz_: something like that maybe. But will need some care to not hash up laziness, I guess.
20:34 jnthn sorear: Huh.
20:34 sorear return $x isn't very interesting
20:34 jnthn sorear: I thought it was settled long, long ago
20:35 sorear I'm more interested in stuff like return ($x, $y)
20:35 jnthn That it's a Parcel
20:35 sorear What sort of parcel does that return?
20:35 sorear And how deeply does it decontainerize?
20:35 jnthn return $x # returns a Parcel of one item really but a single-item Parcel is the same as the item, so in Rakudo we never build it
20:35 jnthn return ($x, $y) # is just a normal Parcel
20:36 jnthn At the moment we don't do any decontainerization because I don't think the spec has been really fleshed out enough there, and nobody hs had chance to explore the area and try something yet.
20:38 sorear Please explain what you mean by that sameness
20:38 dalek nqp: 2255560 | bacek++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
20:38 dalek nqp: Fix write barrier in updating method_cache
20:38 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/22555607c5
20:38 sorear rakudo: say (2,) + (2,)
20:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«2␤»
20:38 sorear rakudo: say 2 + 2
20:38 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«4␤»
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20:43 Rotwang one more question, any ide for perl6?
20:44 moritz_ Rotwang: padre
20:44 Rotwang but please don't say vim
20:44 * moritz_ has resisted
20:44 Rotwang moritz_: thanks [;
20:45 * moritz_ wonders why Rotwang's mouth has rectangular corners
20:46 sorear jnthn: I'd like to know what you mean by "a parcel of one item is the same as the item"
20:46 sorear it's certainly not true in niecza or rakudo, and I have trouble imagining how any model that identified them could sanely handly hyper assignment
20:47 sorear *handle
20:47 Rotwang moritz_: it's easier to type than '('
20:50 jnthn sorear: return ($x) and return $x are equivalent though, afaik.
20:51 moritz_ jnthn: what libraries does a script need to load to use the 6model in nqp?
20:56 sorear jnthn: of course, the parens do nothing
20:56 sorear ($x) is the same as $x
20:56 sorear ($x,) however is not
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20:56 HaraldJoerg January distribution of Rakudo *
20:58 moritz_ HaraldJoerg: hello. What about it?
20:58 jnthn moritz_: Needs to have the dynops and dynpmcs loaded, and probably nqp.pbc at the moment, but I want to break out the meta-object stuff into a library of its own.
20:59 HaraldJoerg Just confirming what Rotwang wrote, with some hope that there's a workaround.
20:59 Rotwang Helios: I only rebuilt parrot 3.0.0
21:00 moritz_ jnthn: nqp.pbc helped
21:00 moritz_ thanks
21:05 dalek nqp: f6b7f76 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
21:05 dalek nqp: make p6regex tests runnable again
21:05 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f6b7f76f7c
21:09 * sorear pokes jnthn
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21:13 jnthn sorear: I think I was mis-remembering from an earlier way things worked. I don't see anything in the spec that supports any deeper single-item Parcel === the single item stuff in there now.
21:14 jnthn I'm sure I remember implementing some magic along that line way back, but I think it all got tossed when lists were re-done in Rakudo to be the current way.
21:14 jnthn So, ignore. :)
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21:55 lue hello zebras o/
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22:31 masak hola, lue.
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23:13 masak colomon: so... I'm basically done writing the p4 post. except for your second submission, which (1) plays perfectly as far as my interrogation techniques have been able to determine so far, and (2) is a beast to read and understand. :P
23:14 masak I don't think I can publish until I've made a some progress on either of those fronts.
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23:24 masak 'night, #perl6
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