Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-02-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:18 donri why does ([+]0,1...*)[10] hang?
00:19 benabik donri: Because ([+]0,1...*) asks for the sum of all numbers between 0 and infinity.
00:19 donri well i get why but is that per spec or just rakudo not fully lazy?
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00:20 jnthn You're asking it to add up the numbers to infinity.
00:20 jnthn It's not a bug - it's just doing what you asked. ;)
00:20 benabik Did you mean ([\+]0,1...*)[10] ?
00:20 jnthn The index is kinda useless there
00:20 jnthn As what you get back is a single item, not a list.
00:20 jnthn Did you mean what benabik said, or maybe [+] (0,1...*)[10]
00:20 donri benabik: yes, but i didn't know that syntax :)
00:21 donri what's that mean
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00:22 jnthn [\+] is trinagle operator - produces all the intermediate arrays
00:22 benabik Produces an array of intermediate values.
00:23 donri also [+](0,1...*)[0...10]
00:23 benabik rakudo: ([\+]0,1...*)[0..10]
00:23 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
00:23 jnthn ah, yes, that's more useful :)
00:23 jnthn rakudo: (([\+]0,1...*)[0..10]).perl.say
00:23 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«(0, 1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 36, 45, 55)␤»
00:24 donri rakudo: (0,1,&infix:<+>..*)[10]
00:24 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Method 'succ' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤  in 'RangeIter::reify' at line 4926:CORE.setting␤  in 'List::at_pos' at line 1␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 1790:CORE.setting␤  in 'Parcel::at_pos' at line 1␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line
00:24 p6eval ..1790:CORE.…
00:24 donri rakudo: (0,1,&infix:<+>...*)[10]
00:24 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
00:25 donri rakudo: (0,1,&infix:<+>...*)[10].say
00:25 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«55␤»
00:25 benabik I always forget that p6eval isn't a REPL.
00:25 jnthn We did have it auto-print once, but I think it causes some other issues
00:28 benabik Would be handy if it had something like ruby's p: sub p($_) { .perl.say }
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00:30 benabik Or some other low precedence way of adding .perl.say
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00:32 dalek nqp/match-nom: 94e55ed | jonathan++ | src/pmc/rakudoobject.pmc:
00:32 dalek nqp/match-nom: Work around Parrot's nuts keys implementation. This means the getting/setting keys in the capture bit now seems to work well, which gets us to the next error, which is just that NQPCapture needs some more implementation effort (exists). Also will need to make those v-tables overridable.
00:32 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/94e55ed4d8
00:35 jnthn OK, enough for me tonight.
00:35 jnthn Gotta drag myself into $office at a reasonable time in the morning.
00:35 jnthn sleep &
00:39 donri rakudo: [\+]0,1...*
00:39 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
00:39 donri rakudo: say [\+]0,1...*
00:40 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:
00:40 p6eval ..OUTPUT«(timeout)1283645556678911051201361531711​9021023125327630032535137840643546549652856159563​0666703741780820861903946990103510811128117612251​2751326137814311485154015961653171117701830189119​5320162080214522112278234624152485255626282701277​5285029263003308131603240332134033486357036553…
00:40 donri lol
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01:29 sorear good * #perl6
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02:55 diakopter *
02:55 phenny diakopter: 15 Feb 09:55Z <moritz_> tell diakopter that I "git stash"ed some changes to evalbot, because I needed to pull and didn't know what to do with them - fell free to 'git stash apply' + commit, or let them rot
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03:06 sorear hi diakopter
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05:23 sorear Why are so many spectest files so long and complicated? :/
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05:28 dalek roast: d88e9eb | sorear++ | S03-operators/binding-scalars.t:
05:28 dalek roast: Fudge S03/binding-scalars for niecza
05:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d88e9ebbad
05:28 dalek roast: 8b6f98d | sorear++ | S03-operators/bit.t:
05:28 dalek roast: Fudge S03/bit for niecza
05:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8b6f98d253
05:28 dalek roast: 39ead4f | sorear++ | S03-smartmatch/any-str.t:
05:28 dalek roast: Fudge S03-smartmatch/any-str for niecza
05:28 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/39ead4ffd6
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05:34 [Coke] sorear: I had similar trouble dealing with tcl's official test suite, and I didn't have the luxury of fudging. I feel your pain.
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05:41 sorear [Coke]: the worst part is that they incidentally test other things
05:42 [Coke] aye.
05:42 sorear quite a few tests assume a working numerics hierarchy
05:42 [Coke] making it so that you have to run most everything to test anything. sucks.
05:43 sorear in niecza it currently flattens to Num
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06:44 dalek roast: 5d02383 | sorear++ | S04-declarations/state.t:
06:44 dalek roast: Fudge S04-declarations/state for niecza
06:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5d02383553
06:44 dalek roast: 2c2bce7 | sorear++ | S04-statement-modifiers/ (2 files):
06:44 dalek roast: Fudge S04/for and given for niecza
06:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2c2bce7455
06:44 dalek roast: b349634 | sorear++ | S04-statement-modifiers/if.t:
06:44 dalek roast: Fudge postfix if for niecza
06:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b3496345e0
06:45 dalek niecza: 3e24c39 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
06:45 dalek niecza: Add new test files and TODOs for today
06:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3e24c39974
06:45 * sorear -> sleep
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07:25 mfollett What's the easiest way for me to make a GET web request in Rakudo * 2011-01?
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08:21 diakopter phenny: tell TimToady maybe Perl 6 can make it into Vol5 of TAoCP (Scanning/Parsing) ;) he says done by 2020
08:21 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
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08:24 jnthn morning, #perl6
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08:25 Layla_91 jnthn: yaw! =)
08:25 jnthn Layla_91! \o/
08:25 vampirelove_294 sup
08:26 jnthn Privet! # Don't have Russian mapped on this keyboard :)
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08:27 Layla_91 jnthn: prevet! I don't have one too.. but my english is getting better though :D
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08:28 jnthn Layla_91: Your English seems quite nice. :)
08:29 Layla_91 jnthn: erm.. I still can't say "w" properly.. comes out like v... I was told so :(
08:29 jnthn Aww...
08:31 * jnthn has had trouble with various sounds in other languages
08:31 jnthn When I was in Spain, I couldn't pronounce the "r" correctly.
08:32 Layla_91 I fixed the r thing when I was at school =)
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08:33 K-LineMeAssholes +aloha +dalek +ilogger2 +IRSeekBot +p6eval 16WAAGL8K _ilbot _sri _twitch aesop agentzh aindilis Alias allbery_b am0c amkrankr1leuen apejens araujo arlinius arnsholt arthur-_ ascent_ ashleydev avuserow awwaiid bacek_at_work baest barika bartolin bbkr benabik betterworld BinGOs breinbaas broquaint Bucciarati c1sung_ charsbr__ chitragupt cibs cjk101010 cjk101012 clkao cls_bsd cognominal coldhead cookys_ cotto cotto_work cschimm1
08:33 am0c it's a kicktime
08:33 Layla_91 what was that?
08:34 K-LineMeAssholes KLINE TIME
08:34 K-LineMeAssholes k-line please
08:34 K-LineMeAssholes was kicked by moritz_: K-LineMeAssholes
08:34 jnthn ...wow, some people do the most pointless things...
08:35 Layla_91 :-\
08:35 Layla_91 moritz_ saved the day! ^_^
08:35 jnthn Layla_91: I suspect you'll pick the w up more if you hear it enough
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08:37 Layla_91 jnthn: mm.. the problem in my opinion is that the languages are so different.. Like a client I have from China.. she sent me a video about the alphabet.. it was so long! I thought russian alphabet was the longest! :S
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08:48 jnthn Layla_91: Russian alphabet is quite OK to learn...especially because uppercase and lowercase letters tend to be identical (apart from size difference of course :-)).
08:54 * daxim gives jnthn a cockchafer ж
08:56 jnthn .u ж
08:56 phenny U+0436 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER ZHE (ж)
08:56 jnthn :)
08:59 Layla_91 jnthn: yes it is so easy, also spiritual and romantic language.. you must learn it~ :-|
08:59 Layla_91 jnthn: :D
09:00 coldhead to read dostoevsky in russian would be nice
09:00 dalek nqp/match-nom: 3a80453 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
09:00 dalek nqp/match-nom: try to implement exists_keyed* vtable overrides by adopted copy & paste
09:00 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3a80453155
09:01 Layla_91 coldhead: I started with Chekhov when I was in school.. I liked his style..
09:02 jnthn Layla_91: Yes, I'm learning. I love it. :)
09:02 jnthn Layla_91: But still...long way to go.
09:03 jnthn I spent 2 years studying Slovak when I lived there and still wasn't very good by the time I left.
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09:07 daxim you recognise this: пиво
09:07 jnthn Of course :)
09:08 jnthn Important word!
09:08 daxim this is a good place for a sixer to attach a comment to the question how perl6 currently handles multi-line comments, perhaps with a link to the appropriate standards document:  http://stackoverflow.com/q/5012838
09:09 Layla_91 jnthn: пиво... mmm.. you must have russian roots in family to like it that much.. it is so common like water in Russia :D
09:10 Layla_91 Lunch time! bye! o/
09:11 jnthn The Russian supermarkets are great. They have a section for пиво, a section for вино...and then one for alcohol ;)
09:11 jnthn Layla_91: Enjoy! bye! o/
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09:13 tadzik phenny: "пиво"?
09:13 phenny tadzik: "beer" (mk to en, translate.google.com)
09:13 tadzik phenny: "вино"?
09:13 phenny tadzik: "wine" (bg to en, translate.google.com)
09:14 tadzik nubo, Buho :)
09:19 jdhore I just realized something interesting...I'm rather surprised that Larry wasn't in (or even mentioned in) Revolution OS.
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09:22 moritz_ jnthn: upon further reflection, I noticed that I don't quite understand object creation/initialization
09:22 moritz_ .bless takes a hash of attributes
09:23 moritz_ does it try to recursively initialize that in self and base classes?
09:23 moritz_ or does it call .BUILDALL, which does that?
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09:36 jnthn It calls BUILDALL, which calls each BUILD method in trun.
09:36 jnthn *turn
09:36 moritz_ but which step does the actual attribute initialization?
09:37 jnthn BUILD is the only thing that actually touches the attributes
09:39 moritz_ but... BUILD is a submethod, and there's not a BUILD submethod automatically in each class
09:39 jnthn Yes, the Mu.BUILD is...special.
09:40 jnthn I fear more special than we've been treating it in Rakudo so far
09:40 * jnthn realizes that we may have been getting away with a few things...
09:41 moritz_ so...
09:41 moritz_ BUILDALL looks into each class for the presence of a BUILD submethod
09:41 moritz_ if it's there, it calls it
09:42 moritz_ if not, it calls Mu.BUILD with some magic pretending to be in the current class, not in Mu?
09:43 jnthn Yes, it's that "magic" that is confusing me at the moment.
09:43 jnthn I think the Rakudo version depends on attribute access being "broken" and not needing to be qualified with a class name
09:45 jnthn moritz_: I need to think about it a little more, but I need to do some $dayjob bits at the moment.
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09:48 moritz_ ok
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10:02 dalek nqp: 99575b9 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
10:02 dalek nqp: implement NQPMu.{new,BUILDALL,MAGIC_BUILD}. Tests.
10:02 dalek nqp:
10:02 dalek nqp: The latter is a hack to get attribute initialization working in classes that
10:02 dalek nqp: don't define their own BUILD submethod.
10:02 dalek nqp:
10:02 dalek nqp: Lack automatic BUILD calling.
10:02 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/99575b9e03
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10:39 moritz_ nqp: my @a; say(@a[0])
10:39 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«␤»
10:39 moritz_ nqp: my @a; say(pir::typeof(@a[0]))
10:39 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Undef␤»
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10:55 masak good noon, #perl6
10:56 moritz_ oh hai masak
11:04 mberends o/
11:05 masak Layla_91: A video about the Chinese alphabet? were you joking, or was your client joking? Chinese doesn't really have an alphabet as such. not in the sense of "totally ordered set of symbols approximately on the level of phonemes", at least.
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11:08 masak moritz_, jnthn: I'm interested in object creation/initialization too. is downcasting on the table? that would be nice.
11:09 moritz_ masak: did you see my last nqp commit?
11:09 masak no; looking.
11:10 moritz_ it's a bit hacky, and n downcasting happens
11:10 masak MAGIC_BUILD...
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11:11 masak I guess it's easier to *talk* about downcasting now that jnthn has evolved the thinking about reprs.
11:11 masak when we downcast, we probably need to switch out the repr, right?
11:12 moritz_ right
11:12 masak that's how I see it working, anyway: in downcasting from A to B: the object $a first gets a new repr with the B attributes, than B.BUILD is run on it.
11:14 masak generalizing for a chain of several children, the repr only needs to be swapped out once at the beginning to the intended type.
11:16 moritz_ sounds right
11:17 masak ah, .BUILD_MAGIC is the method prying open Pandora's box. ;)
11:17 masak does nqp not have submethods yet?
11:23 moritz_ don't think so
11:23 moritz_ which is why I didn't implement BUILD support
11:25 diakopter ooooo it's bedtime
11:26 masak 'night, kopter.
11:26 jnthn Casting isn't really about changing the object. It's just about changing the way you look at it.
11:26 jnthn diakopter: sleep well o/
11:27 masak jnthn: are you implying that downcasting shouldn't work if the object isn't already "really" a B?
11:28 jnthn Well, we don't really do casting at all in Perl 6, in the sense you do it in Java
11:28 jnthn I think you're talking about re-blessing.
11:28 masak right. I am.
11:28 masak downblessing :)
11:28 jnthn C/Java/C# all confuse things a bit by using the same syntax for casts and coercions.
11:29 jnthn (float)some_int # coercion, actual representation change...though not in-place
11:29 jnthn (Child)SomethingWeOnlyKnowAsTheParent # cast - doesn't change the object, just checks it really is a Child
11:34 moritz_ is tha why C++ has dynamic_cast?
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11:50 jnthn moritz_: I don't know C++ well enough to say
11:52 masak http://www.parashift.com/c++-f​aq-lite/smalltalk.html#faq-30.3
11:53 colomon dynamic_cast is "we have a child, cast to it."
11:53 colomon or I guess, "if you have a child, cast to it."
11:55 colomon or as you say, "just checks it really is a Child"
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11:55 colomon it's the one the OO fanatics say you should never use, but in practice is really freaking useful.  :)
12:27 dalek roast: 7bfcd8e | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-num/gcd.t:
12:27 dalek roast: Add simple tests for gcd.
12:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7bfcd8efe6
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12:43 masak I'm listening to http://www.infoq.com/presentatio​ns/TDD-in-a-DbC-World-Greg-Young -- it's quite related to PRE/POST and similar things. Greg just mentioned a special type of block that (dynamically) lifts the PRE/POST invariants.
12:43 masak this would solve an issue that moritz_++ raised once -- that there must conceivably be some situations where we can't fulfill all the per-class pre/postconditions.
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12:54 takadonet morning all
12:54 colomon o/
12:55 masak \o
12:56 jnthn o/
12:56 * jnthn eated too much lunch and is sleepy now
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13:02 arnsholt ETOOMANYNOMS
13:02 arnsholt =)
13:04 masak POST { @.nom <= $NOM_LIMIT }
13:17 dalek rakudo: b076174 | colomon++ | src/core/Rat.pm:
13:17 dalek rakudo: Switch calls to pir::gcd_iii to just gcd.
13:17 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b076174099
13:17 dalek rakudo: 67dfab4 | colomon++ | src/core/Int.pm:
13:17 dalek rakudo: Add Int.gcd and a proto for a sub version.
13:17 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/67dfab4d34
13:17 dalek rakudo: 4f5299c | colomon++ | t/spectest.data:
13:17 dalek rakudo: Add S-32num/gcd.t.
13:17 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4f5299c677
13:18 * jnthn wonders how much trouble our protos are going to get us into during the nom branch :)
13:19 colomon I need to get into nom and lend a hand.
13:19 masak jnthn: are we going to run into the "have to declare a proto everywhere there's a multi" restriction?
13:20 jnthn masak: We'll declare them all in the setting.
13:20 jnthn masak: I'm planning to implement the auto-generation before we merge the branch though.
13:20 masak oh, ok.
13:20 masak that's for the subroutines case, I presume.
13:20 colomon auto-generation in the sense that users don't have to declare protos?
13:21 jnthn colomon: Right, as per spec
13:21 colomon \o/
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13:21 jnthn masak: Yeah. The method case is easier.
13:21 masak ooh, as per spec?
13:21 * masak didn't know that
13:21 jnthn The spec talks about proto gen, I think.
13:21 masak the method case is... easier? I thought MI made it kinda tricky.
13:21 jnthn I'm sure that went in during the multi changes from earlier.
13:22 masak I'd like a reference to that part of the spec at some point.
13:22 masak not necessarily now :)
13:22 jnthn S06
13:22 colomon I'm very happy about that.  :)
13:22 jnthn :P
13:22 jnthn MI is not a problem for the meta-model implementor.
13:22 jnthn But users can get themselves in a tangle with it
13:22 jnthn But it's no worse than the "usual" tangle multiple inheritance gets you into.
13:22 colomon masak: I have such weird mixed feelings about p4.
13:23 masak colomon: let's hear it.
13:24 masak jnthn: C is A is B, D is A is B. C and D both define multi .foo: where does the proto go?
13:25 colomon masak: It's an uneasy blend between pride at having one of the best performers and shame that I didn't notice any of the better ways of doing things that were staring me in the face.
13:26 masak colomon: oh, nothing worse than that? then I'm not too worried.
13:26 jnthn masak: C will get a proto auto-generated in it. D will get a proto auto-generated in it.
13:26 masak colomon: that basically just means that my cunning plan worked for p4 :)
13:26 jnthn masak: If you declare a multi in a class and there's no proto in the MRO matching that name, the proto gets created in that class.
13:27 jnthn The meta-object doesn't go monkey-patching others.
13:27 masak colomon: in some sense working code is what counts here. recall that the *only* contestant who got p4 right got so involved in it that he (1) missed the deadline, and (2) didn't complete all of the other tasks.
13:28 masak colomon: the contest is explicitly set up to reward people who can manage the constraints enought to produce five good-enough solutions, not 1..5 perfect solutions.
13:28 masak jnthn: oh, good.
13:28 masak jnthn: that's very sane.
13:28 * masak is happi
13:29 colomon masak: like not noticing that two runs of the same length cancelled each other out.  I mean, a bunch of the stuff I wrote more or less assumed that, but I never formally thought it out and generalized it.  Applying the insight would have been a five-minute patch that would have noticeably strengthened my code.
13:29 masak colomon: yes, I wouldn't say your code is too strong on the theoretical side... but it gets the job done, for large values of $N.
13:30 colomon masak: I was using the code to develop the theory, rather than the other way around.  :)
13:31 * colomon never imagined 56 would be considered a large value of $N; just assumed that would be in the 100s.
13:32 masak no, 56 isn't a particularly large value of $N. I just stopped looking when I had found some flaw in all of the submitted algorithms.
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13:38 masak as I write in the blog post, the interesting thing is analyzing the p4 submissions from the point of view that they all miss the theory-based solution.
13:39 masak there are traces of similar "traps" in the other problems. for example, p1-fox misses the fact that a greedy algorithm doesn't always find the best answer.
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13:52 moritz_ ... which you mentioned in the problem description, iirc
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14:02 daxim http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5017095/h​ow-to-get-the-terminalsize-with-perl6-rakudo
14:03 * takadonet looks at masak and moritz_
14:03 masak moritz_: I don't think I did. I did hint at it being cumbersome to iterate through the whole permutation space, though.
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14:04 masak getting the terminal size? that would have to be something specific to the window manager, I suppose.
14:04 masak or specific to something.
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14:05 masak looking at CPAN's Term::ReadKey, it seems it's iterating over a number of common platforms, doing platform-specific things for each.
14:09 Tene masak: window manager doesn't have anything to do with it... many terminals don't have an associated window manager at all.
14:09 Tene running over ssh, running on the linux VT, etc.
14:10 masak true. I was speaking out of a state of confusion... :)
14:10 masak I meant "environment".
14:11 Tene 'k
14:11 * Tene finally goes to bed, six hours late.
14:18 flussence That p5 ReadKey code looks... scary.
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14:30 takadonet flussence: don't look at Text-Tabs-Wraps code
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14:31 flussence haha :)
14:31 donri What's the colon in grep:block etc?
14:31 flussence grep:* means the same thing as grep(*)
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14:32 donri doesn't grep * too
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14:35 flussence actually I'm slightly wrong
14:35 flussence from reading the spec, it seems like a colon does the same as p5's indirect object syntax
14:36 donri i don't speak perl5 :$
14:38 flussence basically it works for that example above but it has evil side effects
14:38 donri what example?
14:38 flussence grep:*
14:38 donri i just joined
14:39 donri but why and when is : needed?
14:39 flussence see http://perlcabal.org/syn/S03.h​tml#Comma_operator_precedence
14:39 donri i did, not much wiser ;)
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14:41 flussence well, take the "push @array: 1,2,3" from there -
14:41 PerlJam donri: do you understand OOP and what "invocant" means?
14:41 flussence that's the same as writing "@array.push 1,2,3"
14:41 masak no.
14:42 masak @array.push 1,2,3 is a TTIAR error.
14:42 masak has to be @array.push: 1,2,3
14:42 flussence right.
14:42 masak the way I see it, the colon actually fills two different purposes here.
14:42 masak one is the indirect object notation a la Perl 5: push @array: 1,2,3'
14:42 flussence (the more I read this the more it confuses me)
14:43 masak the other is the "the rest of the expression is arguments" use: @array.push: 1,2,3
14:43 huf what else could it be?
14:43 huf or is this as an alternative to 9)?
14:43 huf ()
14:43 masak yes.
14:44 donri So like Haskell $
14:44 donri PerlJam: Not sure about invocant
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14:45 flussence donri: do you know javascript? it's the same as func.apply(invocant) there
14:46 flussence lets you change the value of "self"
14:47 donri Why is that needed for grep and whatnot?
14:47 flussence it's not
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14:47 flussence it's just there if you want to write it that way
14:47 xinming joined #perl6
14:48 masak donri: the invocant in a method is the object that gets bound to the 'self' keyword.
14:48 TH14 hi
14:48 masak TH14: hi!
14:49 masak TH14: welcome to our humble adobe :)
14:49 PerlJam adobe?
14:49 PerlJam I assume that was intentional, but you never can tell around here.
14:49 masak a brick building.
14:49 TH14 thanks - heavy stuff, what?
14:49 masak TH14: Perl 6? you bet.
14:50 TH14 need further education for this place......
14:50 PerlJam Perl 6 is heavy so that your code can be light
14:50 masak Perl 6 is heavy because we build it out of sun-dried bricks.
14:51 TH14 great
14:51 masak TH14: how did you find #perl6?
14:52 TH14 just searched - it was top of the list
14:52 donri an example of grep with and without :?
14:52 moritz_ \o/ our search engine optimization seems to work, at least partly :-)
14:52 masak we're top-of-the-list? \o/
14:52 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c>.grep: 'b'
14:52 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«b␤»
14:53 moritz_ rakudo: say <a b c>.grep('b')
14:53 PerlJam donri: @numbers.grep(* > 3)
14:53 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«b␤»
14:53 donri ok but an example that differs because of the use-or-not of :?
14:53 donri rakudo: say <a b c>.grep 'b'
14:53 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say <a b c"␤»
14:54 masak donri: Two Terms In A Row.
14:54 donri rakudo: say <a b c>.grep * eq 'b'
14:54 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No candidates found to invoke for method 'grep' on object of type 'Parcel'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : Mu $test;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/hGf1bC2f8y␤»
14:54 TH14 left #perl6
14:54 masak std: say <a b c>.grep 'b'
14:54 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row (method call requires colon or parens to take arguments) at /tmp/Gv50IrCgog line 1:␤------> [32msay <a b c>.grep [33m⏏[31m'b'[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    statement modifier
14:54 p6eval ..loop␤Parse failed␤F…
14:54 donri so it's just a disambiguation thing
14:54 masak in a sense, yes.
14:54 moritz_ it's just syntax.
14:54 flussence or an ambiguation thing :)
14:54 masak TTIAR goes quite deep in Perl 6.
14:54 donri ok :)
14:54 donri ttiar?
14:55 masak donri: Two Terms In A Row.
14:55 masak it makes the parser sane in a certain way that's good for error messages. :)
14:57 donri \o/
14:58 donri and humans, perhaps
14:58 masak once you get used to the idea, yes.
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15:05 masak customers like TH14 interest me. he seemed to want something, but we never found out what.
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15:57 sorear good * #perl6
16:02 moritz_ \o
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16:53 mfollett So, what's the easiest way for me to make a GET request at the moment, there isn't anything like LWP::Simple, is there?
16:54 masak mfollett: well, there's IO::Socket.
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16:57 moritz_ mfollett: there's an LWP::Simple
16:57 moritz_ mfollett: see modules.perl6.org
16:58 sorear hi masak
16:58 mfollett moritz_:Thanks, that'll be what I go with, I was just checking if there was anything closer atm.
16:58 sorear so if I add new test files to roast, will I break rakudo?
16:59 masak hi sorear.
16:59 moritz_ sorear: nope; rakudo whitelists
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16:59 perlpilot if you break rakudo, that's indicative of a problem  :)
16:59 moritz_ sorear: btw I saw your recent remark that many test files are big and complicated... feel free to split them up if you find a good classification by topic
16:59 dalek roast: 821cdb0 | sorear++ | S04-statements/ (2 files):
16:59 dalek roast: Fudge for_with_only_one_item, gather for niecza
16:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/821cdb01b0
16:59 dalek roast: b877a11 | sorear++ | S04-statements/next.t:
16:59 dalek roast: Fudge S04/next for niecza
16:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b877a11e81
16:59 dalek roast: 6ca5980 | sorear++ | S04-statements/no-implicit-block.t:
16:59 dalek roast: Fudge S04/no-implicit-block for niecza
16:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6ca5980c4b
16:59 dalek roast: 15b1f27 | sorear++ | S04-statements/while.t:
16:59 dalek roast: Fudge S04/while for niecza
16:59 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/15b1f27d52
17:00 masak also, reducing test files' dependence on more advanced features can only be a good thing.
17:01 sorear niecza is now running >1/2 of 31 test files in S02-S04
17:01 masak wow!
17:01 sorear time for S05.  I hope there are lots of LTM tests ;)
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17:01 moritz_ sorear: notreally. I tried to write some, but it's hard when you can't run them (that was before niecza came along)
17:02 moritz_ t/spec/S05-metasyntax/longest-alternative.t
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17:02 * sorear looks S05-capture/alias.t line 17 and sighs
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17:04 sorear I guess I could collapse it onto one line then add a #?niecza emit #
17:04 moritz_ sorear: such relicts from pre-fudge times can safely be removed
17:04 sorear oh.\
17:06 dalek roast: c2b89fe | moritz++ | S05- (4 files):
17:06 dalek roast: [S05] remove some pre-fudge relicts noted by sorear++
17:06 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c2b89fe799
17:09 moritz_ sorear: also roast probably reflects the old thinking rw (foo)? captures being arrays... feel free to change that
17:09 moritz_ if you break rakudo along the way, I'll just fudge it
17:09 masak sorear++ # targetting the spectests
17:10 sorear masak: I've decided that they're a good proxy for darkpan code support
17:10 sorear hehehe.  alias.t uses "regex two {..}" at top level :/
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17:10 dalek roast: ecfd67a | moritz++ | S05- (6 files):
17:10 dalek roast: remove more pre-fudge cruft
17:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ecfd67ad33
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17:14 masak sorear: maybe Rakudo doesn't spectest.data it, then.
17:14 masak because Rakudo doesn't support that anymore either.
17:15 moritz_ karma sorear
17:15 aloha sorear has karma of 809.
17:15 sorear I suspect I'll be turning a lot of the Niecza LTM tests into spectests later
17:15 masak sounds great.
17:15 moritz_ sorear: that would be greatly appreciated
17:16 moritz_ sorear: also note for later that IO tests assume that the relative path to them is t/spec/S\d\d-whatever/testfile.t
17:16 moritz_ so the current approach with ../roast/S\d\d-whatever/testfile.t will reach its limit at some point
17:17 dalek roast: 0a53d82 | sorear++ | S05-grammar/protoregex.t:
17:17 dalek roast: Fudge S05-grammar/protoregex.t for niecza
17:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0a53d82046
17:17 sorear stupid restrictions niecza has that the spectests don't bother to work around, like '::' not being allowed in class names ...
17:19 moritz_ sorear: I remember explicitly adding class names containing ::, because they were so unreliable in rakudo that I felt I needed to them along the way
17:19 moritz_ which, in hindsight, is stupid
17:19 moritz_ i should just have written separate tests for them
17:19 moritz_ but I was lazy :-
17:22 * flussence recalls having to rewrite a bunch of code because X::Y::Z and X::Y::Z2 clashed in rakudo...
17:23 jnthn o/
17:24 sorear the problem with the spectests is that we don't really know yet what the "least common denominator" of Perl 6 is
17:24 sorear it's probably close to NQP though
17:24 moritz_ \o jnthn
17:24 moritz_ sorear: agreed
17:26 * sorear wonders about adding tests that only work semi-by-accident
17:27 dalek niecza: a5f68a0 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
17:27 dalek niecza: Update whitelist and TODO
17:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a5f68a0c21
17:27 * sorear out
17:27 jnthn moritz_: I saw you patched nqp some more...didn't peek yet :)
17:29 moritz_ jnthn: no visible progress in the match-nom branch... but I did add .bless and BUILDALL in master... it's a bit hacky
17:29 moritz_ see for yourself when you have time :-)
17:30 jnthn moritz_: OK, should ahve some later on today :)
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17:34 moritz_ and if it appears wrong to you... feel free to rip it out, I'm not very attached to the code
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17:37 bbkr MiniDBI returns "Null PMC access in get_string()" in line 106 of NativeCall.pm6 on 2011.01 star release. is it known bug?
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17:39 jnthn bbkr: First time I've heard it.
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17:55 donri I don't get it, is Sprixel supposed to be fully Perl 6 or not?
17:58 donri diakopter?
17:59 * [Coke] wonders if he can test partcl-nqp against nom.
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18:03 donri sorear?
18:03 dakkar left #perl6
18:04 [Coke] Dr. Scott?
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18:10 flussence rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok { 1 }
18:10 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1..1␤get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7461␤»
18:10 flussence :(
18:14 tadzik o/
18:22 dalek nqp: 15ba2db | moritz++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
18:22 dalek nqp: allow <*> in proto regex body
18:22 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/15ba2dbca9
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18:50 masak rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok { 1 }; "42"
18:50 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1..1␤get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7461␤»
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18:50 jnthn ...huh?
18:51 jnthn rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok { 1 };
18:51 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1..1␤get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7461␤»
18:51 jnthn rakudo: use Test; eval_lives_ok { 1 };
18:51 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7461␤»
18:51 masak flussence++ exposed this error a while back.
18:51 jnthn ah, ok
18:51 masak haven't seen it before.
18:51 jnthn masak files rakudobug
18:51 jnthn ;)
18:53 * masak tries locally first
18:55 masak whoa. failed Parrot assertion.
18:55 masak bacek_at_work: seems we're not quite finished yet... :)
18:55 * masak gets a more orthodox build
18:59 flussence found that while I was trying to fix up a few commented out T-T-W tests... took me a while to figure out what was wrong :)
19:02 masak how come it hasn't been found earlier? there has to be a number of those in the spectest suite.
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19:07 flussence I'm not getting any more failures than usual either... http://smolder.parrot.org/app​/projects/report_details/9752
19:08 flussence the only commits since then have been the gcd changes, that shouldn't affect anything like this
19:08 masak that's why I want to try it locally before I submit a rakudobug.
19:09 masak it seems very unlikely that this happens outside of p6eval.
19:09 flussence eval_lives_ok with a *string* works.
19:09 masak o.O
19:10 flussence and apparently, roast doesn't have *any* of the other type...
19:10 masak ok, yo me interested now.
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19:10 masak s/yo/you've got/
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19:10 flussence (Test.pm needs more tests!)
19:10 masak this is getting to sound like a rakudobug after all.
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19:26 * flussence cheats and uses git-bisect on it
19:28 donri How is that cheating :D
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19:28 flussence makes it look like I'm doing work, when I'm not :)
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19:32 donri flussence: isn't that the holy grail of computing?
19:33 bacek ~~
19:33 bacek masak, can you try bleeding edge gen_gc2? I shaved few more yaks.
19:34 masak bacek: ok.
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19:39 flussence well, this is awkward...
19:39 flussence I'm going backwards through the monthly releases and even 2010.11 has this error
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19:40 flussence oh. I'm an idiot.
19:40 flussence I should be using lives_ok for a closure.
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19:41 jnthn flussence: Do you know it's a regression?
19:41 jnthn It's possible was just done wrong in the first place.
19:42 flussence eval_lives_ok only has Str signatures, lives_ok has Callables
19:42 jnthn Yes, but eval_lives_ok shoudln't die with that particular error.
19:42 jnthn Even if it is passed a closure
19:43 flussence rakudo: sub a(Str $b) { return }; a({ 1 });
19:43 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$b'; expected Str but got Block instead␤  in 'a' at line 1:/tmp/kbAjjf5Arb␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/kbAjjf5Arb␤»
19:43 flussence rakudo: multi sub a(Str $b) { return }; a({ 1 });
19:43 tadzik isn't that a matter of adding a type check to a signature?
19:43 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'a'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str $b)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/uaSHZI9Bd4␤»
19:44 flussence rakudo: multi sub a(Str $b) { return }; a { 1 };
19:44 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'a'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str $b)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/USDUX5UIDH␤»
19:44 flussence hmm
19:45 jnthn tadzik: I think eval is still implemented in PIR
19:45 flussence rakudo: multi sub a(Str $b) { return }; a { 'string' };
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19:45 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'a'. Available candidates are:␤:(Str $b)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Z04ByfzRp2␤»
19:45 flussence can't imagine what the difference between that and the code in Test.pm is...
19:45 jnthn flussence: It may be eval's fault
19:45 jnthn rakudo: eval { 1 }
19:46 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$code'; expected Str but got Block instead␤  in 'eval' at line 1192:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/fzZuNuYzY0␤»
19:46 jnthn Oh, maybe not.
19:46 jnthn rakudo: eval ~({ 1 })
19:46 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
19:46 jnthn HM
19:46 jnthn Oddness.
19:47 [Coke] rakudo: say eval ~({ 1 })
19:47 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
19:47 masak rakudo: say ~{ 1 }
19:47 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«_block124␤»
19:47 masak that's what you're eval-ing.
19:48 masak not a valid Perl 6 snippet.
19:50 bacek masak, sorry, can you pull gen_gc2 again. I committed it with limitation of heap to 1 MB :)
19:51 masak ok.
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20:01 flussence ok, I got something possibly useful -
20:01 flussence module A; multi sub explode(Str $a) is export {};
20:01 flussence that has the get_attr_str error
20:02 masak flussence++
20:02 flussence without the "multi" it gives a correct error
20:02 jnthn oh
20:02 jnthn is export is maybe to blaim then
20:02 jnthn *blame
20:02 masak blejn.
20:02 tadzik blejm
20:03 tadzik phenny: "winić"?
20:03 phenny tadzik: "blame" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
20:03 masak phenny: "skylla"?
20:03 phenny masak: "blame" (sv to en, translate.google.com)
20:03 tadzik also, "to wine" (verb)
20:03 masak tadzik: heh :)
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20:03 jnthn ...whine? :)
20:03 masak tadzik: looking at the verb, I can see why... :)
20:03 tadzik that's after too much wine
20:03 jnthn or...actually too wine? :)
20:03 jnthn :)
20:03 jnthn *to
20:04 tadzik yes, too wine :)
20:04 masak in vino whinitas.
20:05 tadzik seen mberends
20:05 aloha mberends was last seen in #perl6 1 hours 33 mins ago joining the channel.
20:05 tadzik I'm curious about this NLPW talk of his
20:05 jnthn Me too. :)
20:05 * masak three
20:05 tadzik especially since no talks are accepted yet :)
20:05 jnthn Then I know what not to submit :)
20:06 masak ooh, is there a deadline?
20:06 jnthn Don't remember seeing one :)
20:06 jnthn But in reality, probably. :)
20:06 jnthn It's all short talks.
20:06 jnthn 15 mins or 5 mins.
20:07 tadzik 13 submitted, 0 accepted. That'll be a BOARING party :)
20:07 * jnthn will submit some
20:07 jnthn :)
20:07 masak URL?
20:08 tadzik http://www.perlworkshop.nl/nlpw2011/talks
20:08 masak dziekuje
20:08 tadzik proszę
20:08 tadzik :]
20:09 masak [:
20:10 tadzik Tack -- is it spelled as if it was english?
20:10 jnthn Yes
20:10 tadzik phenny: "Cam ôn"?
20:10 phenny tadzik: "Thank you" (vi to en, translate.google.com)
20:10 masak tadzik: yes, but the 'a' is darker.
20:11 tadzik oh, Cam on!
20:11 tadzik masak: darker?
20:11 masak tadzik: more like 'ah' than 'ei'.
20:11 jnthn Yeah, 'cus they don't have much sun in Sweden
20:11 masak that's why.
20:11 tadzik tack as in tackle?
20:11 jnthn Yeah
20:12 tadzik it's like a polish "yes"
20:12 jnthn *nod*
20:12 jnthn Spelt "tak"?
20:12 masak even the 'a' in 'tackle' is too open/light.
20:13 tadzik jnthn: tak :)
20:13 masak the 'aaaa' you make at the dentist when he tells you to open wide. that's the vowel we have in Sweden.
20:13 jnthn masak: I suspect if we're approximating based on English words, it's as close as we'll get. :)
20:13 jnthn masak: But I agree it's actually a bit different. :)
20:13 donri Are you all Perl fivers as well?
20:13 masak the Swedish 'a' is actually fairly close to the Hungarian 'a'. but not identical.
20:14 masak donri: I'm more of a fiver wannabe than a real fiver. many here have at least some experience with Perl 5. some, a lot.
20:14 jnthn tadzik: Does it mean "so" in Polish also?
20:14 masak jnthn: I believe so.
20:14 tadzik jnthn: what kind of so? Like „so, whatcha doing tonight”?
20:14 masak jnthn: kak <-> tak?
20:14 tadzik that'd be "więc"
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20:14 masak oh.
20:15 * masak newie :)
20:16 masak wow, that works both in Polish and English. kinda.
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20:18 jnthn masak: Wait, kak as in? Russian "как"?
20:18 masak jnthn: yes, I thought that was the parallel you were asking about.
20:18 jnthn masak: No, was thinking of "tak" in Slovak.
20:18 masak oh, ok.
20:19 jnthn ru как => sk ako, generally, I think.
20:19 donri masak: I guess I'm wondering how uncommon serious interest in Perl 6 is among people with little interest in 5
20:19 donri Like myself
20:20 Tene donri: certainly not unusual.
20:20 perlpilot donri: why do you have little interest in Perl 5 yet some interest in Perl 6?
20:20 masak donri: difficult to say. I think it's easier for Perl 5 people to appreciate the potential of Perl 6. but that doesn't mean that there are exclusively fivers here either.
20:21 masak donri: speaking for myself, my interest in Perl 5 has been growing steadily along with my involvement in Perl 6.
20:21 donri perlpilot: Not sure I can give you a good answer, to me, Perl 5 feels "wrong" and 6 "right"
20:22 donri Elegance or something
20:22 perlpilot masak: do you make heavy use of the 6isms that have made it into perl 5?
20:22 masak perlpilot: not really, no.
20:22 masak perlpilot: I use 'say'.
20:22 masak perlpilot: I don't lean heavily on 'given'/'when', smartmatching, or // in Perl 5.
20:22 perlpilot interesting
20:22 donri Not to bash Perl 5, it's not crap just not something that interests me much
20:23 Tene perlpilot: we make heavy use of 6isms in new Perl 5 code produced at my office.
20:23 Tene Along with MooseX::Declare, etc.
20:23 masak donri: I use Perl 5 when I need a combination of ease, stability, and speed that Perl 6 doesn't provide yet.
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20:24 perlpilot masak: I didn't use the 6isms much (except say) until recently. Now I find that I think to use them more in my Perl 5 code all the time
20:24 tadzik masak: have you seen perl5i?
20:24 masak oh, I use Moose. not Moose::Declare so much.
20:24 masak tadzik: yes. not a lot, but I've seen it.
20:24 masak tadzik: I'd like to do something like that myself one day, but direct the codebase more towards Perl 6.
20:24 perlpilot (Tene's office)++  :)
20:25 donri Python is my primary language at the moment
20:25 tadzik I've recently written some baby python :)
20:25 masak donri: interested question? how does Perl 6 "feel" as compared to Python, from your perspective?
20:26 masak s/\?/:/
20:26 perlpilot donri: python is nice.  I tend to get the feeling that I *have* to type too much sometimes though.
20:26 donri More "Pythonic" than Perl 5 if that's what you mean
20:26 perlpilot Not as much as when I try coding in Java thuogh
20:26 perlpilot er, though
20:26 donri Python is somewhat a "boring" language, which at times is its strength
20:26 donri but it's not as theoretically interesting as Perl 6
20:27 masak donri: I think I know what you mean.
20:27 Tene perlpilot: We're hiring.
20:27 tadzik I don't really like the "exceptions everywhere" approach. Like, no such key in hash? Exception. And so on
20:28 donri perlpilot: entering code is easy, reading code less so, and code size and readability doesn't always or fully correlate
20:29 kjeldahl joined #perl6
20:29 donri But so far the Perl 6 sugars are sensible and readable to me
20:29 perlpilot donri readability and understandability don't correlate all the time either :)
20:29 donri tadzik: dict.get()
20:30 donri lets you fallback on a default too
20:30 tadzik donri: what'd be: $foo = $bar<baz> // "no data";?
20:30 donri don't know what that does
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20:30 masak donri: // is the 'default' operator.
20:31 masak donri: if the lhs is undefined, it picks the rhs.
20:31 donri foo = bar.get('baz', 'no data')
20:31 tadzik not bad
20:31 * masak prefers the Perl 6 solution, which solves a broader problem
20:31 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/mpdclient​/blob/master/contents/code/main.py -- my stupid python. Everywhere I felt like "there must be a Python way for this"
20:32 perlpilot yikes
20:32 donri I fear that all these undefineds might be a pain for debugging etc
20:32 donri but use fatal; or something turns them into exceptions?
20:33 masak something like that.
20:33 masak donri: generally, Perl 6 is a bit stricter already than Perl 5.
20:33 masak Perl 5 is famously laissez-faire.
20:34 donri dict.get() defaults to None for missing keys BTW
20:34 donri so you could do it more perlesque: foo = bar.get('baz') or 'no data'
20:35 masak nice.
20:35 masak rakudo: my %h; say %h<not_there>.WHAT
20:35 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
20:35 masak I'm guessing that 'Any' value is the value type of the hash.
20:35 donri What's an Any() and why not undefined?
20:35 masak Any is undefined.
20:36 masak in Perl 6 'undefined' is a property on objects, not an object in itself.
20:36 molecules joined #perl6
20:36 masak bacek_at_work: nah, we're back at failing on Test.pm now.
20:36 donri how meta
20:36 masak bacek_at_work: want me to submit a Parrotbug?
20:37 masak donri: it was one of those things that just evolved out of other concerns.
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20:37 masak donri: in a typed system with type objects as in Perl 6, there's no real room for an 'undefined' object. just use the type objects.
20:37 masak rakudo: class Dog {}; say Dog.defined; my Dog $d .= new; say $d.defined
20:37 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤Bool::True␤»
20:38 * perlpilot wonders why Guido didn't make dict[key] work like dict.get(key) WRT defaulting to None
20:39 perlpilot donri: Is monkey patching possible in python (I haven't programmed in it since the 1.5 days or so)?  If it is possible, does it happen with wild abandon as in ruby-land?
20:40 masak I think even the Rubyists are coming around to the perils of monkey patching nowadays.
20:40 perlpilot masak: yes ... slowly.
20:41 perlpilot It's hard to correct cultural mistakes
20:41 masak *nod*
20:41 tadzik heh. Now compiling PyQt.  -Dprotected=public looks funny :)
20:42 molecules rakudo: my $string=''; my $fh = open \$string;
20:42 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/EjBG8xSS2S␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/EjBG8xSS2S␤»
20:42 donri perlpilot: possible but not with builtins, and mostly avoided. you can make your own dict type though. also there's defaultdict which returns the result of a callable for missing keys
20:42 perlpilot molecules: I guess you want to know if you can do IO on scalars like in Perl 5 ?
20:42 molecules Yes.
20:42 perlpilot molecules: Doubtful.
20:43 Tene I'm very pleased by the look of ruby's new lexically-scoped class augmentation.
20:43 molecules Doubtful ever or simply doubtful now?
20:43 perlpilot molecules: just now.  IO still needs some work.
20:43 molecules perlpilot: Thanks!
20:43 Tene It whould be fairly easy to implement as a lexical augmentation to the dispatcher in Perl 6, but I'd still like to see something like that specced for Perl 6.
20:44 masak I'd love to see overridable dispatchers.
20:46 tadzik at this moment, jnthn should jump out of the box and say "fixed in 6model!"
20:46 perlpilot heh
20:46 donri how complete is pynie?
20:46 masak good question.
20:46 perlpilot donri: that's a parrot project.  Nothing to do with Perl 6
20:46 tadzik incomplete. Compiles, doesn't work
20:46 tadzik donri: poke lucian on #parrot@irc.perl.org
20:46 donri perlpilot: other than parrot having much to do with perl 6? ;)
20:47 jnthn 6MODEL WILL EVEN BRING WORLD PEACE!!!11!!
20:47 perlpilot jnthn++
20:47 jnthn er, it actually is a big step towards custom dispatchers. :)
20:47 masak \o/
20:47 jnthn Especially given that it doesn't have any notion of a non-custom dispatcher... :)
20:48 masak screw world peace -- I want to override my default dispatcher.
20:48 donri 6model?
20:48 masak donri: the Next Big Thing around here.
20:48 jnthn BEGIN { %*HOW<class> := MyMetaClassWithCustomDispatcher; } # there, done
20:48 masak well, except for Niecza.
20:49 masak jnthn: neat!
20:49 tadzik yeah, this is the reason everyone sits doing nothing, for "6model will fix everything anyway" :)
20:49 donri what's it for/do?
20:49 tadzik donri: it's the new metamodel for Rakudo, and possibly anything else
20:49 masak jnthn: what about class hierarchies with heterogenous metaclasses/dispatchers?
20:49 jnthn masak: It's close anyway. :) But I guess we'll also want a non-escape-hatch way.
20:49 masak yeah.
20:50 jnthn masak: Normal subclassing and composition rules apply.
20:50 Tene jnthn: could I insert my own method dispatcher for a given lexical block?
20:50 jnthn If your subclass of another meta-class implements its own find_method and publish_method_cache, then you just win by inheritance.
20:50 jnthn Tene: Erm.
20:51 jnthn Tene: That's...less trivial.
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20:52 Tene jnthn: When I asked TimToady about lexically-scoped class augmentation, his answer was that libraries to provide that should be implemented by users through lexically-scoped wrapping of the method dispatcher.
20:52 Tene That's the context I'm asking about, at least.
20:53 jnthn Tene: The main issue is that wrappers aren't lexically scoped...at least, .wrap ones ain't.
20:53 Tene I don't know that he actually said "wrap"
20:53 jnthn Ah, OK
20:54 Tene He just indicated that a lexical block should be able to have a different method dispatcher, and that that dispatcher certainly could redispatch to the outer dispatcher if it wanted to.
20:55 Tene a more-trivial example than augmentation would be a dispatcher that logged all method calls, for example.
20:55 Tene Not that that would be very useful, just that would be sufficient to implement the other.
20:56 jnthn Thinking about it, I suspect this kind of thing is much easier at a macro-ish level than a runtime-ish level.
20:56 dalek nqp-rx: 3090e41 | moritz++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
20:56 dalek nqp-rx: allow <*> as proto regex body
20:56 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/3090e41170
20:57 Tene Could be.
21:05 masak bacek, bacek_at_work: https://gist.github.com/830206
21:06 bacek_at_work masak, sigh... Is it bleeding edge gen_gc2?
21:07 bacek_at_work masak, (hm. no. You can't have this assert if you didn't configure it with -DPARROT_GC_VALIDATE)
21:07 plobsing joined #perl6
21:07 jnthn Parrot_Perl6MultiSub_mark is near the top of the bt
21:07 bacek_at_work masak, what git describe --tags says?
21:07 masak bacek_at_work: I pulled the latest gen_gc2 and built Parrot, then Rakudo.
21:08 bacek_at_work mmm...
21:08 masak RELEASE_3_0_0-985-ga133c63
21:08 masak two commits behind, apparently.
21:09 bacek_at_work Unlikely that these 2 functions are invoked from rakudo.
21:09 tadzik Rakudo builds longer than bacek needs to commit :)
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21:10 bacek_at_work masak, ah-ha...
21:10 masak ah-ha?
21:11 bacek_at_work no. I've got write barrier in this place. False alarm
21:12 bacek_at_work Did moritz_ committed my latest patch?
21:12 yarp joined #perl6
21:13 moritz_ bacek_at_work: yes, as commit 76cd24a19f533346c25f8ff9d0c52f28cf02fe98
21:14 bacek_at_work moritz_, yes, found it.
21:14 moritz_ at least that's the latest I know of
21:14 bacek_at_work moritz_, that's the one
21:14 jdhore yahooooo, A Hot Fuzz fan, eh?
21:21 bacek_at_work masak, is it debug or optimized build?
21:22 bacek_at_work masak, nm. I did reproduce it.
21:22 masak debug.
21:22 masak I don't do optimized builds.
21:23 tadzik masak is waiting for Parrot to be fast w/o cheating :)
21:26 masak not sure I think --optimize is necessarily cheating.
21:26 masak but I value lack of segfaults more than I value speed.
21:26 tadzik nah, just joking around
21:27 icwiener left #perl6
21:27 masak yes, I understand. :)
21:27 tadzik ;)
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21:42 mfollett What would cause IO::Socket::INET to fail with "IO::Socket::INET Couldn't create socket."?  I tried to open a socket with $socket.open('127.0.0.1', 8000); with netcat listening on 8000 and I keep getting that failure.  For sanity I tested and can connect to 127.0.0.1:80 with telnet.
21:42 mfollett Using January's Rakudo * on OS X
21:44 mfollett I'm guessing it might have something to do with this PIR "sock = root_new ['parrot';'Socket']", but I'm not familiar enough to know what's going on.
21:55 mfollett left #perl6
21:56 bacek_at_work masak, can you try again?
21:56 bacek_at_work masak, bleeding edge of course :)
21:56 perlpilot blah
21:57 * perlpilot really wishes mfollett hadn't just left :(
21:57 jnthn heh, I was just trying to find out where the error came from
21:57 jnthn Not from INET.pm itself, it seems
21:57 donaldh joined #perl6
21:58 masak bacek_at_work: ok.
22:00 dukeleto questions about Parrot sockets?
22:00 * dukeleto hacked on that stuff recently
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22:02 mrg_ hi
22:02 mrg_ is now known as zenog
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22:03 perlpilot mfollett: See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/​ef3f3fa12b62bedd840cece030c6b531984fdc5d
22:03 dalek rakudo: ef3f3fa | perlpilot++ | src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm:
22:03 dalek rakudo: Set the default protocol family to be INET
22:03 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ef3f3fa12b
22:04 perlpilot dalek: you're too slow!
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22:21 zenog colomon: I now have a PDL port of my IO and computation intensive Perl 6 benchmark: about 2 minutes vs. 1 hour
22:22 shi joined #perl6
22:22 jnthn zenog: Willing to share the Perl 6 code (if you didn't already)?
22:22 jnthn zenog: I'm working on a bunch of stuff that may make PDL-ish situations a bunch more optimal.
22:23 mfollett left #perl6
22:23 zenog jnthn: I have an update of the code (may still not be optimal)
22:23 zenog jnthn: Shall I just put it on nopaste, or do you want to have it somewhere in a repository?
22:25 jnthn zenog: nopaste is fine
22:25 zenog jnthn: What I forgot to say: The ~1 hour was only for reading in the data, no computation yet.
22:25 zenog jnthn: So there is room for improvement.
22:26 jnthn zenog: Oh.
22:26 jnthn zenog: And the 2 minutes included IO and computation?
22:26 zenog jnthn: Yes. In C#/Java the same stuff takes about 5 sec.
22:26 zenog jnthn: Just for perspective, of course I do not expect such a performance from a dynamic language.
22:27 jnthn zenog: Yeah, but Rakudo really needs to do better. :)
22:27 zenog jnthn: Perl 6 version here http://nopaste.info/4acc6ff2ad.html
22:28 zenog jnthn: Perl 5/PDL version here http://nopaste.info/b51fcdeae2.html
22:28 zenog The Perl 5 version converges, which is nice.
22:29 zenog The Perl 6 version is still buggy when it comes to the result of the computation. I am not sure whether it is a Rakudo bug, some strange numerical effects, or my bad understanding of Perl 6 that cause the bugs ;-)
22:30 pigdude left #perl6
22:30 zenog But you can use it for IO benchmarking anyway, no matter whether the computation is correct ;-)
22:31 jnthn OK :)
22:32 perlpilot left #perl6
22:33 zenog I started with this stuff during FOSDEM, just out of curiosity, then annoyed some people on the channel with it who showed me some obvious mistakes, e.g. colomon++; then chromatic's blog post made me come back to the channel: http://www.modernperlbooks.com/mt/2011/02/want-b​etter-perl-6-sooner-write-rakudo-benchmarks.html
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22:37 masak chromatic++
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22:42 masak TH14: welcome back.
22:42 TH14 hey thanks for that
22:44 masak you're welcome. at #perl6, we value our customers, and hope that you will have a pleasant stay.
22:44 masak if there's anything you're wondering about, please don't hesitate to contact our corteous and professional staff.
22:44 TH14 left #perl6
22:44 masak ...or not.
22:45 Tene masak: you didn't mention in here if your test against parrot branch after bacek updates was successful or not.
22:45 sbp he was disappointed that you misspelled courteous
22:45 masak Tene: still building gen/core
22:45 Tene o.O
22:45 masak sbp: I thought it looked wonky.
22:45 Tene slooooooow
22:46 masak Tene: my VM doesn't have very much RAM.
22:46 Tene it's been almost an hour!
22:46 Tene :(
22:46 masak yeah, I haven't been too quick about it, either.
22:46 jnthn Isn't this a build that's augmented with a bunch of debug/trace stuff?
22:46 donaldh Tene: rakudo build with gms_gc ?
22:46 Tene donaldh: that's what he's doing, yeah
22:47 donaldh I have a failed build after bacek's last commit
22:47 donaldh took a while mind.
22:47 Tene donaldh: reported to bacek?
22:47 donaldh only just finished
22:47 donaldh How does bacek like his reports?
22:47 plobsing left #perl6
22:48 jnthn Well done, with a side of fries
22:48 Tene donaldh: dunno; I've never noticed him mentioning a preference
22:48 Tene donaldh: you could certainly start with posting the output in a pastebin and sending him a message here or in #parrot
22:48 donaldh :D
22:48 masak I think both gists and parrot/trac tickets work.
22:48 Tene donaldh: email probably wouldn't be bad either.
22:48 jnthn afk for a bit
22:48 masak bonus points for doing gdb on the thing that blows up.
22:49 donaldh It's a failed assertion !PObj_on_free_list_TEST
22:50 donaldh So gdb won't be much help :-/
22:50 masak oh, ok :/
22:50 zenog_ left #perl6
22:50 donaldh I imagine the damage is done some time earlier.
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22:58 masak rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok { 1 }
22:58 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1..1␤get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7461␤»
22:58 masak now confirmed locally, too.
22:58 * masak submits rakudobug
22:58 masak bacek_at_work: things work much better now. closing parrot trac ticket.
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23:05 bacek_at_work masak, good. I still have feelings that there is some yaks to shave.
23:05 masak bacek_at_work: you're not alone in that feeling :P
23:05 masak bacek_at_work: running spectests now to see if something falls out.
23:07 bacek_at_work masak, S02-builtin_data_types/instants-and-durations.t can fail due floating point rounding.
23:08 bacek_at_work masak, same as with parrot master
23:08 bacek_at_work masak, can you also try configure parrot with --optimize --ccflags="-DPARROT_GC_VALIDATE"? It can reveal more yaks.
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23:09 masak bacek_at_work: may I ask to postpone this task until tomorrow? building takes some time here, and it is getting near my bedtime. :)
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23:10 bacek_at_work masak, of course :)
23:10 masak I shan't forget you :)
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23:34 pmurias sorear: hi
23:36 dalek niecza: 1d616cd | pmurias++ | cl-backend/ (2 files):
23:36 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] foreign stash entries are for now filled in with dummy
23:36 dalek niecza: symbols
23:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1d616cd8f6
23:36 dalek niecza: e8b62fe | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
23:36 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] support sub foo($) {...}
23:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e8b62fe937
23:36 dalek niecza: 58cb2b5 | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
23:36 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] implemented indirect method calls - $foo."$bar"(...) works
23:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/58cb2b5c83
23:40 chitragupt left #perl6
23:41 chitragupt joined #perl6
23:44 pmurias left #perl6
23:52 colomon phenny: tell zenog I certainly wasn't annoyed with his program.  I just ran out of tuits to look at the longer version....
23:52 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when zenog is around.
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