Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-02-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 jerbraun is now known as jtbraun
00:07 dalek niecza: 8840f61 | sorear++ | / (7 files):
00:07 dalek niecza: Eliminate the lexical/let punning horror
00:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8840f61dd5
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00:20 V15170R hi... a question: what do you use for testing perl6 modules?
00:20 masak Test.pm
00:20 masak it comes with Rakudo.
00:20 * masak is using it right now
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00:23 masak I tell you, Z=> and X=> are indeed very useful.
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00:25 masak rakudo: sub foo(:$bar) { say $bar }; my @bar = 1, 2, 3; my %bar = baz => "OH HAI"; foo(:@bar, :%bar)
00:25 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«duplicate named argument in call␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/F05mEZMh3E␤»
00:25 masak \o/
00:26 masak which means it's not a good idea to have two attributes differing only in sigil, because then I can't pass both to a .new method.
00:27 * jnthn wonders if that is warning-worthy.
00:28 jnthn If you make them both with an accessor, it's probably error-worthy.
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00:31 sorear Even if you don't ...
00:31 phenny sorear: 18 Feb 22:18Z <moritz_> tell sorear please see branch p6_spectests on moritz/niecza -- t/run-spectests.pl should work as soon as you implement run() (tested with s/run/say/)
00:32 sorear I'm fairly sure @!foo means @(self!foo) up to optimization
00:32 sorear it makes no sense to have @!foo and $!foo; they'd necessarily alias
00:33 sorear moritz_: um.  I'm amazed that works
00:33 jnthn I'm fairly sure it doesn't mean that.
00:33 sorear niecza wasn't designed to be reentrant D:
00:34 jnthn @!foo is the name the attribute is stored under
00:34 jnthn @!foo and $!foo live in separate slots.
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01:15 jnthn sleep &
01:15 masak wow, I'm staying up later than jnthn for once :P
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01:53 masak 'night, #perl6
01:53 dalek roast: 86cf1d1 | sorear++ | S04-statements/repeat.t:
01:53 dalek roast: Fudge S04/repeat.t for Niecza
01:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/86cf1d1071
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01:54 dalek niecza: ac5d754 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
01:54 dalek niecza: Initial implementations of unless and loop
01:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ac5d7547bc
01:54 dalek niecza: 7b248ac | sorear++ | / (2 files):
01:54 dalek niecza: Finish implementation of "loop"
01:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7b248acedd
01:54 dalek niecza: 2426a6c | sorear++ | / (2 files):
01:54 dalek niecza: Implement 'repeat'
01:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2426a6c8eb
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02:07 dalek niecza: a54d5d2 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
02:07 dalek niecza: Support parsing 1.5e2 syntax
02:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a54d5d2bf7
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02:29 dalek niecza: 39ac6c4 | diakopter++ | README.pod:
02:29 dalek niecza: update on-windows runtime/build rqmts
02:29 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/39ac6c4e96
02:29 dalek niecza: 0c9ee16 | diakopter++ | src/niecza:
02:29 dalek niecza: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:sorear/niecza
02:29 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0c9ee16049
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02:39 diakopter niecza: say 332.52.WHAT
02:39 p6eval niecza v2-86-ga54d5d2: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.InvalidCastException: Cannot cast from source type to destination type.␤  at Niecza.CtxStrNativeNum2Str.Get (Niecza.Variable obj) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at SAFE.C262_List_2Ejoin (Niecza.Frame ) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
02:39 p6eval ..␤  at Niecza…
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03:12 dalek sprixel: f5ae65d | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (2 files):
03:12 dalek sprixel: fix eval to match new EvalString sig
03:12 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/f5ae65da17
03:16 dalek niecza: 4de9ec8 | sorear++ | src/ (4 files):
03:16 dalek niecza: Mergeback
03:16 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4de9ec8aae
03:16 dalek niecza: 7caeccd | sorear++ | TODO:
03:16 dalek niecza: Remove decimal literals from TODO
03:16 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7caeccd945
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03:43 dalek sprixel: 76e661d | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (5 files):
03:43 dalek sprixel: fixup the grammar a bit for class attributes
03:43 dalek sprixel: separate out Functions into some "setting" files
03:43 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/76e661db3c
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04:39 dalek sprixel: 2670f5d | diakopter++ | / (4 files):
04:39 dalek sprixel: cleanup FrameGen.create wrt subName and constructor mode.. preparing for constructors
04:39 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/2670f5d1ba
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04:56 dalek sprixel: e743d50 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/EmitterPass.cs:
04:56 dalek sprixel: fix to evaluate all expression statements
04:56 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/e743d505bb
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05:48 dalek niecza: 4333201 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
05:49 dalek niecza: Implement m// and rx//
05:49 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4333201894
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06:56 dalek niecza: 407c528 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
06:56 dalek niecza: Implement <&foo> call syntax
06:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/407c52892f
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07:10 dalek roast: e109c74 | sorear++ | S0 (2 files):
07:10 dalek roast: Remove plans from S03/reduce and S04/for
07:10 dalek roast:
07:10 dalek roast: These test files are too complicated for fudge to properly count the
07:10 dalek roast: tests, so the plans become wrong if fudging is done.
07:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e109c74f5b
07:10 dalek niecza: 4ef84b6 | sorear++ | t/ (2 files):
07:10 dalek niecza: Switch to data-driven spectest driver (moritz)
07:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4ef84b60b1
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07:19 * sorear out
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07:49 dalek sprixel: 9460638 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (3 files):
07:49 dalek sprixel: finish Map & Capture, and realize that I already did constructors & class inheritance, but forgot about it.....!
07:49 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/9460638bed
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08:08 moritz_ good morning
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08:13 tadzik good morning
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08:22 jdhore 'mornin
08:34 tadzik o/
09:09 moritz_ niecza: say ?'0'
09:09 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
09:10 * moritz_ submits nieczabug
09:10 moritz_ niecza: say ?0
09:10 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
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09:15 moritz_ niecza: say 'ab-c'.split(/<.ws>/).perl
09:15 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:15 moritz_ niecza: say 'ab-c'.split(/<.ws>/).perl
09:16 dalek roast: 70fb660 | moritz++ | S32-str/bool.t:
09:16 dalek roast: [S32] fudge str/bool.t for niecza (issue 38)
09:16 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/70fb660d38
09:16 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:17 moritz_ rakudo: say 'abc'.split(/^/).perl
09:17 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«("", "abc")␤»
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09:26 dalek roast: 91a8a1c | moritz++ | S03-metaops/not.t:
09:26 dalek roast: fudge S03-metaops/not.t for niecza
09:26 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/91a8a1cda1
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11:09 moritz_ rakudo: say 3.4 div 3.1
11:09 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Int $a, Int $b)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7HHJORFZIv␤»
11:09 moritz_ should that coerce both arguments to Int first?
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11:11 moritz_ from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5050210/perl6-rakudo-how-can-i-change-the-data-type-of-a-variable/5050447#5050447
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11:33 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo() { my @b = () }; foo( my @x = 1, 2 )
11:33 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol @x at line 22, near " = 1, 2 )"␤»
11:33 moritz_ that's one of the weirdest rakudobugs I've seen in ages
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11:36 dalek roast: 632ffb7 | moritz++ | S0 (3 files):
11:36 dalek roast: get rid of some unused (and partially wrong) lexicals; fudge for-scope.t for rakudo
11:36 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/632ffb7e3c
11:39 dalek roast: 7b46bb8 | moritz++ | S02-builtin_data_types/autovivification.t:
11:39 dalek roast: [autovivification.t] get rid of unused variable warning; rakudo unfudges
11:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/7b46bb818e
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11:44 masak ahojte, zebras.
11:44 dalek roast: 4fb546e | moritz++ | S02-builtin_data_types/autovivification.t:
11:44 dalek roast: use more previously unused variables
11:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4fb546e894
11:44 moritz_ \o masak
11:44 moritz_ rakudo: '10' div 5
11:44 dalek rakudo: 2fc617f | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
11:44 dalek rakudo: run two more test files
11:44 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2fc617f8bf
11:44 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'infix:<div>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Int $a, Int $b)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/XtptbFV71w␤»
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11:45 moritz_ masak: would you think that should run (and coerce to int first)?
11:45 masak moritz_: difficult one. div is sensitive to the actual types of the operands.
11:45 moritz_ masak: is it?
11:46 masak yes, that's the point of it, IIRC.
11:46 moritz_ I thought it just operated on integers
11:46 masak no, it used to do that.
11:46 moritz_ rakudo: say 5 div 2
11:46 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«2␤»
11:46 masak then it got generalized to type-specific division.
11:46 masak IIRC.
11:46 moritz_ C<< infix:<div> >>, integer division
11:46 moritz_ $numerator div $denominator
11:46 moritz_ Dispatches to the C<< infix:<div> >> multi most appropriate to the
11:46 moritz_ operand types, returning a value of the same type.
11:46 moritz_ Not coercive, so fails on differing types.
11:47 moritz_ you're right
11:47 masak I think your #84438 might be another manifestation of my #77710.
11:47 moritz_ indeed, looks quite similar
11:48 moritz_ I'll merge
11:49 moritz_ I thought we mostly left such weird bugs behind us
11:50 masak moritz_++
11:50 masak yes, it's one of the strange holdouts.
11:50 masak bet it'll be a blast to debug, as well :)
11:50 moritz_ niecza is fun right now
11:50 masak oh?
11:51 moritz_ I found about 30 test files that it passed right out of the box
11:51 moritz_ and two or three that needed only minor fudging
11:51 moritz_ and two nieczabugs in the course
11:51 masak wow!
11:51 masak moritz_++
11:51 moritz_ all by running an adapted rakudo test mangling/running tools
11:52 masak \o/
11:54 moritz_ so in summary, it seems that niecza is in LHF mode
11:54 moritz_ rakudo: say ?'00'
11:54 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
11:54 moritz_ rakudo: say ?'0'
11:54 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
11:56 masak I wouldn't mind both being False.
11:56 * moritz_ neither
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11:57 masak for example, say, by first numifying the string and then boolifying it.
11:57 masak conceptually.
11:57 moritz_ ?"foo"
11:57 masak ah, no :0
11:57 masak :)
11:58 moritz_ only if it parses as a string
11:58 moritz_ but that would be much more expensive than the current thing
11:58 jnthn afternoon o/
11:58 moritz_ \o
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12:01 masak o/
12:02 jnthn Sunny day \o/
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12:14 masak I had a wonderful hacking session last night. hoping to pick up where I left off today. :)
12:15 masak I'm exploring Druid algorithms. writing a Dijkstras algorithm that uses two metrics alongside each other.
12:16 masak all in Perl 6, of course.
12:16 jnthn I had a wonderful sleeping session last night. Had a dream about Icelandic hot springs.
12:17 jnthn I seem to have woken up with a bit of a cold though. :/
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12:18 masak well, you need to be careful when getting out of those hot springs...
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12:32 flussence rakudo: my @actions = Mu, &note, &say, &return, &warn, &die; my $http-code = 404; @actions[$http-code div 100].name;
12:32 p6eval rakudo 6f9116:  ( no output )
12:32 flussence (oh duh, forgot .say again)
12:33 flussence rakudo: (Mu, &note, &say, &return, &warn, &die)[404 div 100].name.say
12:33 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«&warn␤»
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12:38 flussence (hmm, I think sep.t and sep2.t may be identical...)
12:39 masak there's nothing to separate them? :P
12:39 flussence if I'm reading this right, the only difference is one sets $Text::wrap::separator and one doesn't...
12:40 flussence no, that can't be right
12:40 flussence wrap.t doesn't set the separator
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12:47 flussence oh, the second one sets $Text::Wrap::separator2. That's a horrible variable name.
12:49 masak variables from that naming scheme usually are :)
12:50 masak a telltale sign is if there's no corresponding variable ending in '1'...
12:51 masak 'x1, y1, x2, y2' is ok, but 'left, top, right, bottom' is usually better. :)
12:52 flussence my understanding is that setting $separator makes it remove the input's newlines, while $separator2 leaves them there
12:52 flussence I think it'd be much better with an $input-delimiter and $output-delimiter instead.
12:52 masak +1
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13:16 masak it's stormy on IRC today.
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13:19 moritz_ rakudo: subset A of Int { }; say A; say A.perl
13:19 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "subset A o"␤»
13:20 moritz_ rakudo: subset A of Int where *; say A; say A.perl
13:20 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Int()␤Int␤»
13:20 colomon rakudo: subset A of Int where * > 10; say A; say A.perl
13:20 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Int()␤Int␤»
13:21 jnthn Those probably want to say A() and A
13:21 jnthn That'll be an easy fix in the nom branch, but it's hard to do now.
13:22 colomon I was just justifying to myself why they should say Int.  :)
13:23 colomon nom++
13:27 moritz_ I'm trying to include actual and constraint types in the "Type check failed for assignment" error message
13:27 moritz_ that will be confusing for subsets for now
13:27 wolv is now known as wolverian
13:32 moritz_ $ ./perl6 -e 'my Str $x = 34'
13:32 moritz_ Type check failed for assignment Container type: Str got: Int
13:33 [sbp] is now known as sbp
13:33 masak jnthn++ nom++
13:33 masak subtypes will have their own metaclasses, right?
13:33 moritz_ sounds right
13:33 masak what about enums?
13:34 jnthn yeah, though I prefer the term "meta-object", since talking about something that's not a class having a metaclass feels odd ;)
13:34 masak oops, indeed.
13:34 masak meta-thingies.
13:34 gfldex_ is now known as gfldex
13:34 jnthn enums - didn't think too hard about them yet, but would make sense for them to
13:35 jnthn How low-level they are is...kinda interesting to think about.
13:35 jnthn I mean, if Bool is an enum...it needs to be declared pretty early on.
13:35 moritz_ we could even say that Int is an infinite enum :-)
13:37 jnthn Well, seen that way it's as if enums are just a kind of instantiable subset types or something.
13:38 moritz_ jnthn: should &infix:<=> have a 'invizble_frame' annotation?
13:39 masak I suspect 'infinite enum' is near to an oxymoron.
13:39 masak and in contrast to Bool, the values of Int are literals, not identifiers.
13:39 moritz_ the error message already says "in assignment", so I don't see much value in having it appear in the stack traces
13:39 jnthn masak: You can enumerate an infinite set, it just takes a while. :)
13:40 jnthn moritz_: If you feel we get a win on the error messages by doing so, feel free. That's the only reason it exists.
13:40 masak right, but the Perl 6 concept of 'enum' doesn't just mean 'enumerable'.
13:40 jnthn masak: I know, I know. :)
13:40 jnthn masak: Note that literals can sometimes sit in type slots, though.
13:40 jnthn multi fact(0) { 1 }
13:40 masak yeah, that's my fault :P
13:41 jnthn Just blame ML. :P
13:41 * masak is happy that change went through
13:41 * jnthn too
13:41 masak everyone else seems happy about it as well.
13:41 jnthn I writed cute examples of multi-dispatch thanks to it :)
13:42 moritz_ jnthn: does 0 actually sit in the type slot, or is it sugar for  Int $ where 0  ?
13:43 jnthn moritz_: Sugar.
13:43 jnthn moritz_: We infer the type of the constant.
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13:43 moritz_ right, we just call .WHAT at compile time
13:43 jnthn Pretty much.
13:43 masak jnthn: what type would you infer from Inf? :P
13:43 moritz_ rakudo: say Inf.WHAT
13:43 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
13:44 moritz_ maybe it should cheat and say Real instead :-)
13:44 masak rakudo: say 5 ~~ 3..Inf
13:44 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
13:44 masak moritz_: I think it should.
13:44 jnthn moritz_: Not sure, apparently Inf is menat to go in Int slots too
13:44 masak moritz_: but it's worse than that. Inf needs to be an Int and a Num.
13:44 jnthn moritz_: Though that feels...magical... :/
13:44 masak that's the "problem" with Inf.
13:44 masak it's two types at once.
13:45 jnthn So I'll mostly hope somebody else figures out how that really works.
13:45 masak three, if you count Str.
13:45 moritz_ just like <1 2>
13:45 masak oh wait, maybe we use * for Str.
13:45 moritz_ which is also Int and Str
13:45 jnthn Well, what bothers me is how it interacts with assignment.
13:45 jnthn And if we end up with a check every assignment or something
13:46 masak why does that bother you?
13:46 jnthn Performance?
13:47 masak well, testing for two types seems it'd only be twice as slow as testing for one type.
13:47 masak and there are probably ways to make it hurt less.
13:47 jnthn Perhaps.
13:47 jnthn I just get nervous when stuff wants to play fast and loose with the type system.
13:57 plobsing why is something being two types at once problematic? isn't that what multiple inheritance is for?
13:59 jnthn .oO( You have a problem. You solve it with multiple inheritance. Now you have two problems. )
14:00 jnthn plobsing: It may actually work though. :)
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14:00 jnthn We end up with a type that has an int slot and a num slot...hm. :)
14:00 plobsing Now you have N problems. FTFY
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14:16 masak I'm not really married to any specific solution with Inf.
14:16 masak I'm hoping it won't come to IntInf and NumInf :)
14:16 jnthn I'd have a fling with the multiple inheritance solution, but I'd certainly not marry it.
14:17 jnthn No, IntInf and NumInf are...ugly.
14:17 masak yeah.
14:17 masak maybe Inf desugars to different things depending on context? that'd be one way to avoid MI.
14:17 masak it'd be a different ugliness, though.
14:17 jnthn Yeah
14:18 masak the trick is to push at the humps until the waterbed looks smooth :P
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15:13 masak rakudo: my @a = 4 ?? 1, 2, 3 !! 7, 8, 9; say ~@a
15:13 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @a = 4 "␤»
15:14 masak std: my @a = 4 ?? 1, 2, 3 !! 7, 8, 9; say ~@a
15:14 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Precedence of , is too loose to use between ?? and !!; please use parens around inner expression at /tmp/mMU9JrquHO line 1:␤------> [32mmy @a = 4 ?? 1,[33m⏏[31m 2, 3 !! 7, 8, 9; say ~@a[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
15:14 masak rakudo: my @a = 4 ?? (1, 2, 3) !! 7, 8, 9; say ~@a
15:14 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1 2 3 8 9␤»
15:14 masak rakudo: my @a = 4 ?? (1, 2, 3) !! (7, 8, 9); say ~@a
15:14 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
15:16 masak "on the other hand, if you're doing fancy stuff with lists, maybe it's time to migrate from ?? !! to something more structured? like, an if statement?" :)
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15:49 dalek rakudo: 14319fc | moritz++ | / (2 files):
15:49 dalek rakudo: make assignment type check errors more informative
15:49 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/14319fca88
15:49 masak \o/
15:53 colomon moritz_++
15:53 flussence is that what I think it is? :D
15:54 moritz_ flussence: depends on what you think of
15:55 moritz_ somehow rebuilding is borked on p6eval server
15:55 moritz_ rakudo: say 1
15:56 p6eval rakudo 6f9116: OUTPUT«1␤»
15:56 moritz_ this is like... so old
15:57 flussence Feb 14th?!
15:57 moritz_ valentine's day
15:57 flussence oh, that reminded me, I'm going to try and get try.rakudo on something up to date.
15:58 moritz_ \o/
15:58 moritz_ std: 1
15:58 p6eval std 625303c: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 117m␤»
15:59 moritz_ that is... ancient
15:59 moritz_ Date:   Thu Dec 16 08:36:53 2010 -0800
16:00 colomon woah
16:01 * colomon was not impressed with valentine's day as "so old", but December 16th is definitely ancient.
16:02 moritz_ turns out we don't have a rebuild script for std
16:03 flussence I think this beats them by a long shot:
16:03 flussence → say $*PERL␤name    rakudo␤version    2010.09-3-ga820a44
16:04 dalek evalbot: d055ab5 | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild-std.sh:
16:04 dalek evalbot: build script for STD
16:04 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/d055ab5f17
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16:09 tadzik o/
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16:15 moritz_ rakudo: my Int $x = "foo";
16:15 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤    Container type: Int␤               Got: Str␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/g2udax_ZWT␤»
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16:16 moritz_ std: 1
16:16 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
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16:18 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
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16:21 moritz_ rakudo: my $x = 3; say <<$x>>
16:21 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«$x␤»
16:21 flussence rakudo: say $*PERL
16:21 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«name    rakudo␤version  2011.02-4-g14319fc␤␤»
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17:09 flussence → say $*PERL␤name    rakudo␤version 2011.02-4-g14319fc␤
17:09 flussence \o/
17:10 tadzik (:
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17:14 masak rakudo: say $*PERL.WHAT
17:14 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
17:15 masak S28 has this as Application.
17:15 masak should be LHF for anyone wanting to fix.
17:16 masak also, the entry for $?PERL says 'Which Perl am I compiled for?'
17:16 masak I would have expected 'compiled *by*' there, but I'm not 100% sure that 'compiled for' is wrong, either.
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17:18 masak I think S28:97 is a fossil: $?GRAMMAR
17:18 masak isn't that handled by slangs nowadays?
17:19 masak also, what's the difference between $*EXECUTABLE_NAME and $*PROGRAM_NAME ?
17:20 masak ah, %?LANG seems to be what replaces $?GRAMMAR nowadays.
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17:24 masak $?SCOPE, for keeping track of the current lexical scope, has a comment '(XXX unnecessary?)'. that, in my opinion, is the wrong way to add features. :) I motion for immediate removal.
17:24 masak s/motion/move/
17:25 masak lastly, $?XVM, "which virtual machine am I cross-compiling for", seems to me completely over the top.
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17:31 masak hm, or maybe not... :)
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17:59 allbery_b but $?TARGET or similar?
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18:18 masak the name is fine, I was just wondering whether something like that'd ever find a use.
18:18 masak I guess in a world with several stable VMs for Perl 6, it might well.
18:20 tadzik hugme: hug me
18:20 * hugme hugs tadzik
18:20 tadzik hugme: thanks
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18:40 sorear good * #perl6
18:40 moritz_ good morning sorear
18:42 sorear moritz_: right now every niecza process assumes exclusive access to obj/MAIN.exe; I am very nervous of solutions that involve multiple concurrent such processes
18:43 sorear even if Mono handles the case of obj/MAIN.exe being overwritten while it is being run fine, other CLRs might now
18:43 sorear not
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18:44 sorear (this will be fixed after the v3 release; I have a new backend interface that doesn't rely quite so much on files, but it needs to wait for a bootstrap cycle)
18:45 moritz_ sorear: the last two or three pull requests should only invoke one Niecza instance at a time
18:46 sorear jnthn: Hi!  I'd like to talk about subsets.
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18:48 tadzik niecza: my $a; $a += 5; say $a
18:48 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Numeric in class Any␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at /tmp/t4L7nNbBE8 line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1189 (SAFE C492_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line
18:48 p6eval ..1190 (SAFE modul…
18:48 tadzik bug or not?
18:49 sorear it's a bug
18:49 sorear I don't have a good general answer for how identities should work though
18:49 moritz_ rakudo: my $a; $a *= 5; say $a
18:49 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«5␤»
18:50 moritz_ sorear: multi infix:<*>() { 1 } provides the default if the LHS is not .defined
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18:51 moritz_ niecza: say [+]()
18:51 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:51 moritz_ niecza: say [*]()
18:51 p6eval niecza v2-93-g4ef84b6: OUTPUT«0␤»
18:51 moritz_ should be 1
18:51 moritz_ rakudo: say [*]()
18:51 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
18:51 moritz_ sorear: do you want a bug report for that one?
18:53 sorear no
18:53 sorear it's not an isolated bug
18:53 sorear it's part of the "MMD" todo item
18:54 moritz_ is MMD mostly NYI?
18:54 sorear yes
18:55 masak good *, sorear.
18:56 masak moritz_: is there a rakudobug filed for [*]() ?
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18:58 moritz_ masak: what's wrong about it?
18:59 sorear jnthn: What makes class { } tractable while BEGIN { } is not?
19:15 dalek niecza: c7b8bcf | moritz++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
19:15 dalek niecza: fix issue 38, boolification of Str
19:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c7b8bcffcb
19:15 dalek niecza: f565da2 | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
19:15 dalek niecza: Tiny whitespace fix
19:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f565da2e34
19:15 dalek niecza: 079b5d7 | sorear++ | lib/SAFE.setting:
19:15 dalek niecza: Remove methods from SAFE.setting that conflict with Kernel
19:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/079b5d79ba
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19:24 masak moritz_: oh! nothing. my brain saw 'rakudo:' where it really said 'niecza:'
19:25 dalek niecza: acab388 | moritz++ | t/update_passing_test_data.pl:
19:25 dalek niecza: script for finding passing spectest files
19:25 dalek niecza:
19:25 dalek niecza: Imported and adapted from Rakudo.
19:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/acab388003
19:25 dalek niecza: 1e36fcc | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
19:25 dalek niecza: Merge remote branch 'moritz/more-spectests'
19:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1e36fcc761
19:26 * sorear has been playing games with git-rebase and git-cherry-pick
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19:32 dalek tpfwiki: (Herbert Breunung)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_index_tablet
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20:51 donri_ "unlike Perl 5 you always get a copy of the right side data assigned to the left"  isn't that expensive?
20:52 moritz_ context?
20:53 donri_ assignment with =
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20:55 moritz_ copy != deep copy
20:55 neroxx left #perl6
20:55 moritz_ often only a reference is copied
20:56 donri_ http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6_variable_tablet#binding
20:56 donri_ "no matter how nested the data structure was (lists of lists eg)"
20:56 donri_ "You never get in Perl 6 a reference with =."
20:57 moritz_ donri_: don't believe eevrything that lichtkind writes :/
20:58 donri_ I don't know who that is
20:58 moritz_ the author of the perl 6 tablets
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20:58 donri_ Are those bad then?
21:00 moritz_ I haven't reviewed them yet; but the statement that = does a deep clone is simply wrong.
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21:04 flussence "eval $struct.perl" on the other hand, usually will
21:04 flussence (even if it is slow)
21:05 masak "You never get in Perl 6 a reference with =." -- the level of English in that short snippet begs for editing.
21:05 moritz_ that's another problem with lichtkind
21:05 masak yes.
21:06 moritz_ but I often don't understand his German either :/
21:06 [Coke] feedback to lichtkind on those tablets is appreciated.
21:07 masak what he lacks in language and insight into Perl 6 he makes up, one hopes, in enthusiasm.
21:07 masak and others can provide the language and insight.
21:07 masak 'enthusiasm' meaning 'time', 'tuits', 'energy' and so on.
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22:23 masak rakudo: say "2-b4" - 1
22:23 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«1␤»
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22:26 sorear niecza: say "2-b4" - 1 # broken?
22:26 p6eval niecza v2-99-g1e36fcc: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: -␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
22:26 p6eval ..SAFE.C92_Str_2…
22:29 diakopter perlesque: say(Double.Parse('2-b4'))
22:29 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.Reflection.TargetInvocationException: Exception has been thrown by the target of an invocation. ---> System.FormatException: Unknown char: -␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename
22:29 p6eval ..…
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22:31 sorear reflection, diakopter?
22:32 diakopter I guess that's the System.Activator Run wrapper
22:32 diakopter I could have it catch exceptions there and throw the inner one
22:33 diakopter (unwrap it one level)
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22:44 dalek sprixel: d7c5167 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (3 files):
22:44 dalek sprixel: unwrap exceptions one level sorear++
22:44 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/d7c5167d59
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22:49 dalek sprixel: fd633c2 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/perlesque/setting/Cursor.pl6:
22:49 dalek sprixel: actually add setting/Cursor.pl6
22:49 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/fd633c2ab0
22:50 diakopter there we go:
22:50 diakopter perlesque: Double.Parse('2-b4')
22:50 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«␤Unhandled Exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: -␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at
22:50 p6eval ..top_level_fra…
22:51 diakopter moritz_: what do you think about stderr output being in a different color :)
22:51 masak left #perl6
22:51 diakopter that sent masak running... ;)
22:53 masak joined #perl6
22:53 moritz_ diakopter: what kind of color codes would you use? IRC colors?
22:54 moritz_ and how would that interact with STD's ANSI color codes?
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22:55 diakopter moritz_: I don't know; what would you suggest if someone were imagining such color distinction
22:56 fhelmberger joined #perl6
22:56 moritz_ diakopter: I don't really know enough about IRC colors
22:56 moritz_ diakopter: usually I find them annoying
22:57 diakopter ansi colors then? folks don't seem to mind them in std
22:59 diakopter perhaps since non-errors are by far the exception, respones that did not have any output on stderr could get a colored marker prefixed.. (such as maybe the OUTPUT marker could be green?)
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23:04 diakopter evalbot control restart
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23:04 masak rakudo: say ("15" - 1).WHAT
23:04 p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Num()␤»
23:04 * masak expected Int
23:04 dalek evalbot: 5548f2a | (Perl 6 Evalbot)++ | evalbot.pl:
23:04 dalek evalbot: make p6eval perlesque use --gc=sgen with mono 2.8.2
23:04 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/5548f2ad97
23:04 dalek evalbot: 3b08081 | (Perl 6 Evalbot)++ | build-scripts/rebuild-std.sh:
23:04 dalek evalbot: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/evalbot
23:04 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/3b08081237
23:05 masak but I guess this is another manifestation of prefix:<=> not being specific enough.
23:05 diakopter sigh; my fault (merge branch master)
23:05 masak s'ok. we all accidentally merge sometimes ;)
23:06 moritz_ diakopter: did anybody have a problem wrt not being able to distinguish STD{OUT,ERR}? If not, it's probably overengineering
23:08 diakopter no; ok :)
23:11 masak I have a bug inside a large-ish class whose only explanation seems to be lexpad corruption. :/
23:12 masak not sure where to even start minimizing this one.
23:13 masak the signature binding fails inside a map block. the variable $row fails to bind -- an Int is expected, but a Node is found in $row instead. (Node is a class defined in the script)
23:13 masak now, $row is simply the loop variable of the map block, and the map block loops over ^$size, which is an Int.
23:13 masak so, in short, this shouldn't happen.
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23:16 moritz_ 00:12 < masak> not sure where to even start minimizing this one.
23:16 moritz_ delete as much code as you can while keeping the code running
23:16 masak :)
23:16 moritz_ and after each deletion, test again
23:16 moritz_ standard procedure :-)
23:17 diakopter evalbot control restart
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23:17 masak yes, that's not the part I'm unsure about...
23:17 * masak starts by trying to run the failing test in isolation
23:19 masak yes, it does. oh joy. we're in business.
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23:32 dalek sprixel: eab4005 | diakopter++ | sprixel/ (2 files):
23:32 dalek sprixel: tweaks for p6eval & mono
23:32 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/eab4005868
23:33 masak ok, bug found. it was in me, not in Rakudo. rakudo++ masak--
23:33 dalek sprixel: c63c345 | diakopter++ | sprixel/Program.cs:
23:33 dalek sprixel: remove debug code; sigh
23:33 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/c63c345442
23:33 cognominal masak++  autoflagelation--
23:34 masak also, moritz_ for encouraging the minimization.
23:34 cognominal autoflagellation--
23:34 masak moritz_++
23:35 masak actually, publicly dissecting bugs tends to lower one's tendency to cry wolf like this :)
23:35 dalek sprixel: c9d6038 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/compiler/PerlesqueEval.cs:
23:35 dalek sprixel: another tweak
23:35 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopter/sprixel/commit/c9d60384e7
23:35 diakopter sorry for the dalek noise :(
23:36 jdhore parrot++, they merged GenGC :D
23:36 masak \o/
23:36 masak parrot++
23:36 masak bacek++
23:37 * diakopter waits for a build, rakudo make test
23:37 diakopter (not me, I mean)
23:38 jdhore Didn't someone "relevant" say that GenGC made Rakudo 20-30% faster?
23:41 diakopter relevant how?
23:42 jdhore Someone who wasn't trolling/trying to be stupid.
23:43 jdhore (I can't remember who i heard that from so I don't know...)
23:43 diakopter (if you thought I was trolling/trying to be stupid, I wasn't.. fyi) :)
23:49 colomon Is there already a Rakudo branch with the changes needed to support GenGC?
23:49 masak no, but I've been successfully building Rakudo with a certain commit.
23:49 masak hold on.
23:50 masak 76cd24a
23:50 colomon That's a Parrot commit?
23:50 masak no, a Rakudo commit.
23:50 masak since it hasn't been reverted, my guess is that Rakudo runs fine with the merged GenGC in Parrot.
23:51 masak the only reason I couldn't build with newer Rakudos was that they required newer Parrots.
23:52 colomon So in theory, all we need to do is bump PARROT_REVISION and we're good to go?!!
23:53 masak at a guess, yes.
23:53 masak the write barriers have already been added in.
23:53 colomon moritz_, are you thinking what I'm thinking?  ;)
23:54 masak unless moritz_ is sleeping...
23:54 colomon (probably not, because what I'm thinking is "How the heck do you bump PARROT_REVISION now?"
23:54 colomon )
23:54 masak :P
23:55 colomon afk # need to rearrange toddler room instead of applying amazing patch to Rakudo.  :(
23:55 masak 'night, #perl6
23:55 colomon o\
23:56 masak left #perl6

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