Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-02-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:02 donri there's instance variables of course, if that's what you mean
00:04 donri which are pseudo-private (accessible via introspection)
00:04 kfo joined #perl6
00:06 Tene donri: yes, that's what we mean.
00:07 patspam joined #perl6
00:07 kfo_ left #perl6
00:11 dalek std: 1de95e3 | sorear++ | STD.pm6:
00:11 dalek std: First batch of whirlpool changes from Niecza
00:11 dalek std:
00:11 dalek std: - $<foo> = {expr} notation is used in many places instead of
00:11 dalek std:   reliance on mutable match hashes
00:11 dalek std: - several incorrectly flattening arguments have been fixed
00:11 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/1de95e3611
00:11 patspam left #perl6
00:30 tornadovj left #perl6
00:54 stifynsemons joined #perl6
00:55 awoodland left #perl6
01:26 Khisanth joined #perl6
01:28 lopaway is now known as lopnor
01:29 lopnor hello #perl6
01:30 sorear hello lopnor
01:30 lopnor sorear: hello!
01:31 lopnor can i ask how to use pir::* methods?
01:32 sorear rakudo: pir::spawn__vs("ls")
01:33 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected SREG, expecting '(' ('$S125')␤        in file 'EVAL_10' line 46948297␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
01:33 sorear rakudo: pir::spawn__pp("ls")
01:33 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected PREG, expecting '(' ('$P125')␤        in file 'EVAL_10' line 376␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
01:33 sorear rakudo: pir::spawn__iS("ls")
01:33 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected IREG, expecting '(' ('$I126')␤        in file 'EVAL_10' line 49021609␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
01:33 sorear rakudo: pir::spawnw__is("ls")
01:34 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«build␤Configure.pl␤CREDITS␤docs␤dynext␤LICENSE␤Makefile␤parrot␤perl6␤perl6.c␤perl6_group.c␤perl6_group.h␤perl6_group.o␤perl6.o␤perl6.pbc␤README␤src␤t␤Test.pir␤Test.pm␤tools␤VERSION␤»
01:34 lopnor oh
01:34 lopnor im using MiniDBI to connect mysql,
01:35 lopnor it does not work recently
01:36 lopnor it seems pir::null__P() works deferent than expected
01:36 lopnor how can i make null string parrot object?
01:38 lopnor https://github.com/mberends/MiniDBI/blob/master/lib/MiniDBD/mysql.pm6#L344
01:39 lopnor i know pir::null__P() makes null pmc object, but null $S0 is needed here.
01:44 flussence (I was wondering the same thing myself... that used to work but hasn't for a few months now)
01:45 masonkramer_ joined #perl6
01:45 masonkramer left #perl6
01:46 masonkramer joined #perl6
01:46 lopnor rakudo: pir::null__S()
01:46 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06:  ( no output )
01:47 lopnor is this ok?
01:47 sorear don't use pir::null
01:47 sorear Rakudo is not designed to work correctly with expressions that return PMCNULL
01:48 masonkramer_ left #perl6
01:48 sorear if you're going to use Null PMCs, you ought to use a Q:PIR block, and take care that no Null PMCs can get out
01:48 tty234 joined #perl6
01:49 lopnor MiniDBD::mysql uses libmysqlclient via zavolaj,
01:49 lopnor and some api needs null parameters,
01:50 lopnor should i use Q:PIR instead of zavolaj?
01:55 redmorning left #perl6
01:57 am0c joined #perl6
02:00 noganex_ joined #perl6
02:03 leprevost joined #perl6
02:04 noganex left #perl6
02:08 donri left #perl6
02:08 Chillance left #perl6
02:11 redmorning joined #perl6
02:17 jaldhar left #perl6
02:17 envi joined #perl6
02:21 sorear lopnor: if zavolaj can't marshal nulls correctly, I would hazard that is a bug in zavolaj
02:24 lopnor sorear: thank you, i will seek some walkaround.
02:35 masonkramer_ joined #perl6
02:38 whiteknight left #perl6
02:41 Khisanth left #perl6
02:48 Khisanth joined #perl6
02:57 araujo left #perl6
02:58 araujo joined #perl6
03:10 _twitch joined #perl6
03:18 orafu left #perl6
03:20 orafu joined #perl6
03:37 agentzh joined #perl6
03:49 stifynsemons left #perl6
03:55 masonkramer_ left #perl6
03:56 lateau joined #perl6
04:02 gimix joined #perl6
04:04 leprevost left #perl6
04:08 hudnix left #perl6
04:09 satyavvd joined #perl6
04:15 nymacro joined #perl6
04:17 Vlavv` left #perl6
04:23 Su-Shee_ joined #perl6
04:26 Su-Shee left #perl6
04:29 Vlavv` joined #perl6
04:59 lateau left #perl6
05:13 sorear At some point I'd like to discuss the "STD" API with people.
05:15 sorear The procedures currently required to call into viv-STD, Niecza-STD, and Rakudo-STD are quite different and incompatible, despite all having similar *functionality*, and I think that's no good.
05:16 stifynsemons joined #perl6
05:16 arlinius joined #perl6
05:25 sorear What should eval '{YOU_ARE_HERE}' do?
05:26 sorear rakudo: say eval '{YOU_ARE_HERE}'
05:26 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«_block169␤»
05:26 sorear rakudo: say eval 'YOU_ARE_HERE'
05:26 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«_block155␤»
05:26 sorear ...?
05:26 sorear I'm sure that's not right :)
05:26 sorear rakudo: say YOU_ARE_HERE;
05:26 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«_block128␤»
05:27 sorear rakudo: say {YOU_ARE_HERE};
05:27 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«_block124␤»
05:27 sorear niecza: say {YOU_ARE_HERE};
05:27 p6eval niecza v3-8-gc04f67f:  ( no output )
05:27 dalek niecza: 52c322b | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
05:27 dalek niecza: Move non-upstream methods out of STD
05:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/52c322b864
05:27 dalek niecza: b9d3192 | sorear++ | src/STD.pm6:
05:27 dalek niecza: Bring STD.panic closer to official implementation
05:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b9d3192662
05:31 _twitch left #perl6
05:36 dalek tpfwiki: (chris denorch)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6
05:37 lamstyle left #perl6
05:38 dalek niecza: 17e3722 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
05:38 dalek niecza: Allow execution of compilation units to return a value
05:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/17e37223fa
05:42 _twitch joined #perl6
05:44 _twitch left #perl6
05:48 araujo left #perl6
05:48 lopnor is now known as lopaway
05:54 mberends sorear: I agree with your "STD" API suggestion, can we discuss that in #phasers on Tuesday?
05:58 starcoder left #perl6
05:58 pjcj left #perl6
05:59 hatseflats left #perl6
05:59 slavik1 left #perl6
05:59 pjcj joined #perl6
05:59 hatseflats joined #perl6
05:59 qiyong joined #perl6
05:59 diakopter left #perl6
05:59 qiyong anyone is op in #perl?
05:59 diakopter joined #perl6
06:02 starcoder joined #perl6
06:03 slavik1 joined #perl6
06:05 sorear qiyong: this is #perl6; there's almost no overlap
06:05 qiyong sorear, they banned me there, i'm confused
06:06 sorear mberends: No, I have a lecture at the exact same time this semester
06:07 qiyong is fifo and unix socket the same thing?
06:07 sorear no
06:07 sorear similar, but not quite the same
06:07 qiyong http://perldoc.perl.org/IO/Socket/UNIX.html#CONSTRUCTOR
06:07 qiyong Local   Path to local fifo
06:07 qiyong but that doc mixes fifo
06:08 sorear fifo is a general term
06:08 mberends qiyong: beware, this is a Perl 6 channel and you are asking a Perl 5 question. The answers may not be what you seek.
06:10 qiyong how do I do unix socket with perl6?
06:10 kaare_ joined #perl6
06:11 mberends qiyong: that is still under design/construction
06:12 mberends qiyong: but in Perl 5 you can generally use a Unix fifo or a socket in the same way. See `perldoc perlipc`
06:13 cjk101011 joined #perl6
06:13 sorear eh?? last time I checked, you needed perldoc -f connect for sockets and perldoc -f open for named pipes
06:13 sorear unless you meant something different by "Unix fifo"
06:14 mberends "generally" ;)
06:16 Bzek left #perl6
06:16 Bzek joined #perl6
06:23 justatheory left #perl6
06:23 justatheory joined #perl6
06:27 woosley joined #perl6
06:28 justatheory left #perl6
06:50 sorear the proto-eval stuff is bizarrely not working :/
06:56 PZt left #perl6
06:58 wtw joined #perl6
07:00 stifynsemons left #perl6
07:03 stifynsemons joined #perl6
07:03 alester left #perl6
07:04 kaare_ left #perl6
07:06 cjk101011 left #perl6
07:07 kaare_ joined #perl6
07:07 stifynsemons left #perl6
07:09 cjk101011 joined #perl6
07:16 Mowah joined #perl6
07:19 _twitch joined #perl6
07:20 noganex_ is now known as noganex
07:21 cjk101011 left #perl6
07:23 cjk101011 joined #perl6
07:24 _twitch left #perl6
07:40 pothos left #perl6
07:41 pothos joined #perl6
07:54 lue left #perl6
07:55 lue joined #perl6
08:03 sji joined #perl6
08:08 jaldhar joined #perl6
08:09 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
08:22 agentzh left #perl6
08:29 agentzh joined #perl6
08:50 mberends left #perl6
08:54 dju_ joined #perl6
08:55 dju left #perl6
09:02 donri joined #perl6
09:06 * TimToady wishes all http://wall.org/~larry/zebra.jpg a good *
09:06 phenny TimToady: 27 Feb 21:43Z <sorear> tell TimToady What is the purpose of STD line 431?  { $.from = self.pos }
09:09 * TimToady also wishes that people wouldn't get Python or Moose envy without good use cases for things that can't already be done other ways  in Perl 6; sugaring what we have already is preferable to importing bloat
09:10 donri What is the Python envy?
09:11 tadzik oh, speaking of Moose
09:12 tadzik TimToady: don't you think there should be an easy way to do stuff post-object-creation, like BUILD in Moose? Now we must either blees ourselves in new or care about attributes in our BUILD
09:12 TimToady wanting to import Python formatting, which to me looks like a poor-man's way to reimplement what we already have in capture binding and interpolation
09:13 tadzik TimToady: see something like http://nopaste.snit.ch/34387
09:14 envi left #perl6
09:17 jnthn morning, #perl6
09:17 donri aha, that one was probably my fault :)
09:18 donri mainly, I find %s etc to have too much C baggage, and interpolation isn't safe (for i18n for example)
09:18 TimToady tadzik: I don't understand what you're saying; new is *for* calling bless, and BUILD is *supposed* to care about attributes
09:18 donri though neither is perhaps python's formatting language which allows attribute and item access
09:20 TimToady well, we can talk about .fmt sugar, but we already have ways of referring to positional and named things, and this part seems like a lousy way to write a closure that happens to return a string
09:20 TimToady as for exceptions, they're supposed to be exceptional, and I don't mind if they contain a format closure
09:21 donri I should study fmt more, I thought sprintf-style was *the* way in Perl 6
09:21 TimToady especially since such a closure is unlikely to close over anything anyway
09:22 tadzik TimToady: exactly. There is no easy nor straightforward way to "just do some stuff after the object is created and the attributes are set"
09:22 TimToady rakudo: my $answer = 42; say "My answer is $answer.fmt('%7.3f')"
09:22 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«My answer is  42.000␤»
09:23 moritz_ in particular providing your own BUILD interferes with automatic attribute initialization in rakudo, don't know if it should by spec
09:23 TimToady tadzik: then you want to do it after the bless in new
09:23 jnthn moritz_: I think by spec it shouldn't.
09:23 moritz_ ah, maybe that's the real problem
09:23 jnthn moritz_: However, the mechanism by which it doesn't is...mysterious. :)
09:24 tadzik so if we define our own BUILD, it should be ran _after_ the attributes are set?
09:24 tadzik How does it get on with the logic that BUILD is for setting attributes?
09:24 moritz_ jnthn: I guess there's a routine different from BUILD which does the automatic attribute initialization
09:24 jnthn moritz_: Perhaps so.
09:24 TimToady the spec says it only auto sets the attibutes you'd don't set explicitly
09:25 TimToady and it's supposed to do that implicitly at the end of BUILD
09:25 jnthn TimToady: What does "set" mean?
09:25 jnthn TimToady: e.g. can we say "is this thing undefined, if so set it"?
09:25 tadzik oh, but when you do it in new() you have to write the .new signature yourself, and stuff
09:25 moritz_ that's not too hard
09:26 TimToady not, it's supposed to allow you to set something to undef explicitly, and that should override the default
09:26 moritz_ method new(*%args) { self.bless(*, |%args) }
09:26 tadzik no of the things we need to do know in Rakudo is hard. It's just sad that we need to bother more than Moose
09:26 am0c left #perl6
09:26 TimToady Moose can't make Perl 5 provide .wrap
09:27 TimToady so you could .wrap your BUILD in P6 to privide control both before and after the BUILD
09:27 jnthn TimToady: Right, that's what I remembered, and why it's not implemented yet. I'm not sure what "set" really means in this context.
09:27 TimToady (which could be before any subclasses extend the attributes)
09:27 tadzik so ideally, if we write our own BUILD with no signature at all and with nothing but "say 'foo'", it should be said, and the attributes should have been set before as if we didn't write any BUILD at all?
09:27 TimToady jnthn: it's more like 'exists' than 'defined'
09:28 moritz_ how is that detected when the storage is pre-allocated?
09:28 moritz_ a special bit field that can be tossed after initialization?
09:29 TimToady maybe they're PMCNULL before they exist :)
09:29 TimToady but a bitmap would work
09:29 TimToady and might interoperate with CATCH better, which is required not to blow up on uninit vars
09:29 jnthn TimToady: (PMCNULL) may work
09:30 jnthn TimToady: Combined with a vivification check or something
09:30 TimToady or some other distinguished value...
09:30 jnthn TimToady: *nod*
09:30 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/484168/ -- in Moose. The attributes are passed to BUILD, but even if we don't do anything with'em, they're set. Is that how it should work in Perl 6 too?
09:30 jnthn It needs to be a value of the right type though.
09:31 tadzik forgot to add an output
09:31 TimToady well "bottom" is a valid subtype of any type... :)
09:31 daxim joined #perl6
09:31 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/484169/ -- output, as expected
09:31 jnthn TimToady: :P
09:32 jnthn TimToady: It's more when people write $!foo .= new(); in a BUILD. :)
09:32 TimToady *nod*
09:33 donri Are typed variables set to the type itself unless assigned something?
09:33 TimToady tadzik: sounds to me more like you want to define your own BUILDALL that does callsame to get the generic BUILDALL
09:33 donri rakudo: my Str $s; say $s.perl
09:33 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«Str␤»
09:34 TimToady then returns control to your buildall after all the BUILDs are called
09:34 jnthn donri: Yes, they're initialized to the type object.
09:34 tadzik TimToady: so how exactly does Perl6's BUILD differ from Moose's build in this case?
09:35 donri cool, so then .new makes sense and isn't just a special case :)
09:36 TimToady I don't think it would, except for the fact that defaulting happens at the end of BUILD
09:36 tadzik that gets screwed with the number of parameters passed
09:36 tadzik obstacles everywhere
09:38 tadzik so what's the easiest way to do something after everything is set up with the default methods?
09:38 TimToady define "everything"... are you counting subclass's BUILD calls as well?
09:38 donri rakudo: say &infix<.>("hello", uc)
09:38 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/67eDJqGNWH␤»
09:38 donri rakudo: say &infix:<.>("hello", uc)
09:38 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix:<.>␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ZzwjxADxJJ␤»
09:39 TimToady BUILD is called *while* an object is being constructed
09:39 TimToady the only guarantee of a complete object is after the bless completes
09:39 donri Isn't .= itself though a little special case?
09:39 tadzik yes. As if I did: my $a = Foo.new(some => params); Foo.init(); I don't want to create an init and have the user call it. That's it
09:39 donri rakudo: say &infix:<.>("hello", &uc)
09:39 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix:<.>␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/gRkCzN4vDq␤»
09:39 TimToady then have the new call it
09:40 tadzik so Moose is more convenient in this case
09:40 jnthn donri: Yes, .= is a special case.
09:40 jnthn donri: It does AST-level re-writing.
09:40 moritz_ TimToady: re python formatting vs. closures, the reason why I prefer the python formatting is that it allows you to read the error format string from a simple text file, and still refer to some thing by name
09:40 moritz_ TimToady: if we rely on closures, and read the format string from a text file, we need an eval() step
09:41 donri jnthn: I mean compared to other op= variants?
09:41 moritz_ (sorry for context switching, just backlogged)
09:41 jnthn donri: Yes
09:43 donri Ah good .= fails if the right-hand is a sub and not a method of the object
09:43 TimToady moritz_: you don't need eval if we provide some way to view a format strings as sugar for a strange bindable signature; it's then just an object you can bind a capture to
09:44 TimToady But I'd prefer not to invent another subinterpreter that has to re-invent pos and named thingies
09:45 moritz_ point taken
09:45 donri can you augment builtins?
09:46 TimToady augment is for classes
09:46 TimToady you can write wrappers for built-ins
09:46 moritz_ tadzik: I get lots of spectest failures, I suspect they are related to the skip() changes (but haven't investigated yet)
09:46 moritz_ tadzik: is your rakudo spectest clean?
09:46 tadzik moritz_: I'll check
09:46 TimToady method new (|$c) { my $self = callsame; $self.init }
09:47 TimToady or some such
09:47 donri so you can't augment Str for example?
09:47 TimToady you can, but don't
09:47 donri yea just wondering :)
09:47 TimToady we allow but strongly discourage MONKEY_TYPING
09:47 donri i've programmed Ruby, I know it's crazy ;)
09:48 TimToady and lexically scoped augmentation is also possible, but considered crazy
09:49 donri and I suppose if you want to add methods you could use the .&sub syntax instead
09:49 TimToady the p6 view of that is that you're providing a different dispatcher within a lexical scope that uses a different class hierarchy
09:50 donri rakudo: sub minutes { $^a * 60 }; say 5.&minutes  # typical Ruby example
09:50 p6eval rakudo 3bbc06: OUTPUT«300␤»
09:51 donri + could use typed multis to deal with namespace polution
09:51 TimToady well, Ruby basically forces you to do your functional programming via the OO paradigm, which distorts things
09:51 donri hehe
09:51 donri Ruby folk are obsessed with "how things read" from a natural language perspective, often being ignorant to how it reads from a programming perspective
09:52 TimToady well, ruby reads naturally if you use a language in which the verb always comes last :P
09:52 donri I mean things like "5.minutes"
09:53 moritz_ that doesn't even have a verb :-)
09:53 donri they like to put verb-likes first for implied subject even when there's ambiguity
09:53 TimToady .minutes is really a type cast
09:53 donri e.g. instance methods accessible top-level within classes
09:54 donri i mean "foo" for "self.foo"
09:55 TimToady P6 prefers to keep its FP dispatchers completely distinct from its OO dispatchers
09:56 TimToady FP dispatchers are all about "what exact language am I speaking in this lexical scope"
09:57 TimToady OO dispatchers don't care about the current language, only what the invocant happens to know about itself
09:57 TimToady the concepts should not be confused
09:57 moritz_ +2
09:57 moritz_ we used to confuse them at some point
09:59 flussence random non-sequitur - would this work as intended? "macro ∑ { '[+] ' }; say ∑ 1..10;
10:00 flussence .u ∑
10:00 tadzik moritz_: yeah, I get failures too
10:00 phenny U+2211 N-ARY SUMMATION (∑)
10:00 orafu left #perl6
10:00 TimToady flussence: probably, since textual/unhygienic macros reparse
10:01 moritz_ flussence: you probably need to qualify ∑ as a listop,  unless that's the default
10:01 * moritz_ not well versed with macros
10:01 tadzik moritz_: maybe fudge needs to be re-ran or something?
10:01 moritz_ tadzik: I did a find -name '*.rakudo' | xargs rm
10:01 moritz_ in t/spec
10:01 flussence is that a test failure in S03?
10:02 TimToady listop is currently specced as default, but maybe that should only be for hygienic macros
10:02 flussence https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/57bc8e44
10:02 flussence tadzik: see the =begin pod there? That's why :)
10:02 woosley left #perl6
10:02 moritz_ tadzik: some skips are still generated wrongly
10:03 moritz_ S29-any/isa.rakudo
10:03 flussence those added tests are commented out, so the plan's broken
10:03 moritz_ 27:    #?rakudo skip "Array is now ~~ List"
10:03 moritz_ 28:skip(1,"Array is now ~~ List"); # {     ok(@arr.isa(Seq), '... @arr is-also-a Seq (invocant notation)');
10:03 tadzik flussence: ouch :D
10:03 TimToady or might have to say macro ∑ is parsed(/''/) { '[+] ' }
10:03 tadzik moritz_: maybe I fixed fudge wrong
10:03 TimToady or that might be the default for macro ∑ () { '[+] ' }
10:04 TimToady or maybe it's macro term:<∑> { '[+] ' }
10:04 moritz_ tadzik: there are just some instances left that you didn't fix
10:04 moritz_ tadzik: I found two of them, re-running things now...
10:06 flussence (hm, I wonder how long it'll be before all the unicode mathematical operators are implemented by someone...)
10:06 tadzik . o O ( use Math::Insanity )
10:06 TimToady for textual macros that get reparsed, we only care about the initial "term" cateogory, not the implied "what to look for next", since we reparse anyway
10:06 tzhs joined #perl6
10:07 flussence tadzik: not that insane - it'd make the gap between things like mathml and perl6 code smaller :)
10:08 lamstyle joined #perl6
10:09 flussence (they'd be insane to implement the box-drawing-style symbols in U+23xx though)
10:09 moritz_ tadzik: it seems that rakudo now does nothing on a skip() call
10:09 TimToady visitors & # biab
10:10 moritz_ $ ./perl6 -e 'use Test; plan 2; skip("foo", 2)'
10:10 moritz_ 1..2
10:10 moritz_ # Looks like you planned 2 tests, but ran 0
10:10 flussence hm, I might need to go fix a few tests...
10:11 moritz_ flussence: notice that all tests which contains skip() are currently screwed up in rakudo
10:11 redmorning left #perl6
10:12 moritz_ tadzik: OH. I had an old Test.{pm,pir} installed
10:13 flussence shouldn't running make have caught that?
10:13 moritz_ flussence: the problem is that rakudo picks up installed versions over local ones
10:13 dalek roast: e15910b | moritz++ | fudge:
10:13 dalek roast: [fudge] fix skip() argument order in two more cases
10:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e15910b2a1
10:14 flussence huh, I don't seem to have anything using that after all.
10:25 donri can you use macros in macros? :D
10:25 moritz_ sure
10:26 donri wouldn't that require recursive reparsing
10:26 moritz_ it's like asking "can you use functions in functions?"
10:26 donri but functions are semantical not grammatical
10:26 moritz_ wouldn't that require recursive execution?
10:26 redmorning joined #perl6
10:27 donri or maybe macros don't do what i think
10:27 moritz_ hygienic macros don't require any reparsing
10:28 donri does hygienic mean it uses syntax that is already grammatical standard perl 6?
10:29 moritz_ I think I mis-used the term
10:29 moritz_ hygienic primariliy means that lexicals from the macro don't leak into the AST that the macro produces
10:30 moritz_ what I wanted to say is that macros that return syntax trees (and not text) don't need any reparsing
10:33 JimmyZ joined #perl6
10:34 snearch joined #perl6
10:39 am0c joined #perl6
10:43 awoodland joined #perl6
10:45 snearch left #perl6
10:45 satyavvd left #perl6
10:46 Tene fwiw, I'd write that as: macro prefix:<∑> ($ast) { quasi :COMPILING { [+] [[[ $ast ]]] } }
10:48 satyavvd joined #perl6
10:48 Tene The choice on whether or not to use :COMPILING there would vary based on whether you would want your ∑ op to respect lexical-scoped replacements of + or [] at the call site or not
10:48 dalek rakudo: 74dcceb | moritz++ | Test.pm:
10:48 dalek rakudo: [Test.pm] fix skip_rest; typecheck $count argument to skip() so that it is easier to detect old usage
10:48 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/74dccebd26
10:49 dalek roast: 8b5a87e | moritz++ | / (18 files):
10:49 dalek roast: reverse order of skip() arguments all over the test suite
10:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8b5a87e386
10:49 Tene I pesonally would expect that you wouldn't want that, as they should be getting the same multi anyway, so if you're modifying it in ways other than multiple dispatch, you probably don't want it to change the behaviour of other ops.
10:51 Tene Man, the spec could seriously use some better examples and other cleanup there.  There's also a broken use of quasi in S02, that should feasibly be a warning.
10:52 Tene (use of arguments to the macro in a quasi without unquoting.
10:52 Tene If you're doing that, it almost certainly won't do what you want.
10:53 Tene std: macro prefix:<foo> ($ast) { quasi { $foo + 2 } };
10:53 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $foo is not predeclared at /tmp/GpPcoHabyI line 1:␤------> [32mmacro prefix:<foo> ($ast) { quasi { $foo[33m⏏[31m + 2 } };[0m␤Potential difficulties:␤  $ast is declared but not used at /tmp/GpPcoHabyI line 1:␤------> [32mmacro
10:53 p6eval ..prefix:<foo…
10:53 Tene erm
10:53 Tene std: macro prefix:<foo> ($ast) { quasi { $ast + 2 } };
10:53 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 134m␤»
10:53 Tene std: macro prefix:<foo> ($ast) { quasi { [[[ $ast ]]] + 2 } };
10:53 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 136m␤»
10:53 Tene the former should give at least a warning.
10:53 moritz_ Tene: feel free to fix stuff in the specs
10:54 Tene moritz_: Yes, I know.  I'm at least going to fix the error, and I may touch up other discussion of macros tomorrow.
10:54 moritz_ hugme: add Tene to perl6
10:54 * hugme hugs Tene. Welcome to the perl6 github organization
10:55 Tene Wasn't I already there?  I thought I was...
10:56 moritz_ Tene: I didn't see you in the team listing
10:56 Tene Ahh; okay.
10:56 moritz_ maybe you were, then you now have 2 commit bits, and can do twice as many commits as we can :-)
10:56 cjk101011 left #perl6
11:01 Tene I've always felt vaguely unsure of how to handle the difference between "good user documentation" and "spec" when making edits to the specs.
11:02 Tene As always, I expect I shoudl realistically handle it by overincluding and let someone else deal with trimming anything inappropriate out.
11:03 orafu joined #perl6
11:04 Tene There currently isn't a good place for me to contribute to the docs that would end up as 'p6doc --wtf macros', or whatever, though.
11:04 Tene Maybe there should be.
11:06 moritz_ there should be, yes
11:07 hanekomu joined #perl6
11:07 moritz_ Tene: you could put docs into docs/u4x/documentation/ -- it's not yet used by any tools, but it's also unlikely to be forgotten
11:09 Bzek left #perl6
11:10 Bzek joined #perl6
11:13 Tene Ah, I forgot about that.
11:14 moritz_ (thats's in the mu repo, fwiw)
11:15 Tene This will have to be good enough; I've spent too much time on this tonight.
11:15 Tene Need to finish something else and then go to sleep.
11:15 JimmyZ left #perl6
11:17 dalek specs: bed616e | tene++ | S0 (2 files):
11:17 dalek specs: Fix an error in macro usage and add a recommendation for a warning for that error.
11:17 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/bed616eb4d
11:18 Tene There; my first commit to the specs since they moved out of pugs
11:18 Tene Looks like I previously only made two minor formatting and language fixes; no previous functional changes.
11:20 moritz_ Tene++
11:21 Tene There probably needs to be some text in there about ensuring hygeine, etc.
11:25 Tene macro statement_control:<FOO> (&block) { my $msg = 'lol'; [[[ &block ]]]() }; my $msg = 'ohai'; FOO { say $msg }
11:29 Tene It's also not clear to me whether there is any possible confusion in the spec about COMPILING::.  I'm pretty sure that if you want to talk about what you're compiling in the quasi you need to do that in a BEGIN in the quasi, but I havne't thought about it much yet, and it could do with being noted in the Macros section.
11:33 redmorning left #perl6
11:37 nrr` left #perl6
11:39 satyavvd left #perl6
11:44 amkrankruleuen left #perl6
11:45 nrr joined #perl6
11:48 masak joined #perl6
11:48 masak oh hai, zebras
11:48 phenny masak: 26 Feb 13:20Z <tadzik> tell masak have a pull request
11:49 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
11:51 masak Tene: "To insert an "unquoted" expression of either type within a quasiquote, use the quasiquote delimiter tripled"
11:51 masak Tene: note "the quasiquote delimiter". your last commit seems to not be aware of that.
11:57 masak phenny: tell tadzik merged; dziękuję.
11:57 phenny masak: I'll pass that on when tadzik is around.
11:59 * masak becomes fuzzy around the edges and disappears back to $dayjob
11:59 masak left #perl6
12:00 donri why are things like statement_control using underscore?
12:06 flussence seems to be a style choice for operator-defining things, look at S02:4762 for example
12:08 donri or is it an artifact from a time when possibly "-" wasn't allowed in terms?
12:08 cotto left #perl6
12:09 perplexa phenny: tell phenny tell phenny tell phenny tell phenny that this is a test
12:09 phenny Hey, I'm not as stupid as Monty you know!
12:09 perplexa :)
12:09 donri phenny: tell * whatever
12:09 phenny donri: I'll pass that on when * is around.
12:09 phenny donri: 12:09Z <donri> tell donri whatever
12:09 donri Thanks.
12:10 perplexa heh
12:10 flussence wait, that works?
12:10 donri yep
12:10 flussence phenny: tell flu* whatever
12:10 phenny flussence: I'll pass that on when flu* is around.
12:10 perplexa so * apparently resolves to yourself
12:10 phenny flussence: 12:10Z <flussence> tell flussence whatever
12:10 donri perplexa: no, it's just the last activity with nick matching *
12:10 perplexa which is? ;)
12:10 donri phenny: tell per* example time!
12:10 phenny donri: I'll pass that on when per* is around.
12:10 flussence I wonder how that globbing's done
12:10 donri lala
12:11 * perplexa is not gonna trigger that
12:11 phenny perplexa: 12:10Z <donri> tell perplexa example time!
12:11 perplexa damnit
12:11 donri flussence: likely python's fnmatch
12:11 perplexa aye
12:11 donri http://docs.python.org/library/fnmatch.html
12:11 Alias joined #perl6
12:11 donri phenny: tell [!t]onr? WHAT!
12:11 phenny donri: I'll pass that on when [!t]onr? is around.
12:11 donri :(
12:12 donri maybe not
12:12 flussence bah, no {} syntax :)
12:12 donri phenny: tell donr? hi me!
12:12 phenny donri: I'll pass that on when donr? is around.
12:12 donri guess only * works
12:12 donri phenny: tell *ri !
12:12 phenny donri: I'll pass that on when *ri is around.
12:12 donri and only at the end
12:13 am0c left #perl6
12:14 nart joined #perl6
12:15 perplexa you're probably filling it's message stack with crap :D
12:15 perplexa let's continue until it crashes
12:15 donri shh
12:15 nart helo, I know some p5 and am primarly a php programmer. what does p6 main area of application? I mean, will it compete php? or will it replace perl5 in some applications (yes I guess for text processing perl5 will live forever with sed and awk)..
12:16 perplexa for now i'd say it's just a geek toy
12:16 moritz_ nart: we plan to replace all dynamic languages with Perl 6. Sadly our plan won't work out, I guess
12:16 perplexa to be honest
12:16 perplexa heh mo :)
12:17 moritz_ nart: it's a general purpose programming language, it retains perl 5's strengths in text processing, but makes many other things (for example proper object orientation) much more convenient
12:17 nart moritz_: so you expect that people using perl5 for text processing (like myself) will move to perl6?
12:17 * perplexa will consider using it as soon as its performance gets anything near p5
12:18 moritz_ nart: we'll offer a viable alternative; judging people's readiness to switch is almost impossible
12:18 moritz_ nart: Perl 5 will not cease to develop, so people can stay there if they want
12:19 donri Perl 6 is best compared to Python and Ruby other than Perl 5
12:19 donri IMO
12:19 moritz_ donri: maybe technically, but not in spirit
12:19 nart moritz_: I think regarding text processing a developer might be more intersted in speed than in oop model.. what about web applications? new perl6 era like the old perl web apps days?
12:19 donri It's a similar niche
12:19 donri dynamic general purpose languages
12:20 moritz_ nart: people interested in text processing will love grammars and reusable, named regexes
12:20 perplexa donri: why do you think it's betteR?
12:20 donri perplexa: better than what?
12:21 donri nart: perl 6 web development will probably be similar to python or ruby web dev
12:21 perplexa you just said it's better than python and ruby, didn't you?
12:21 moritz_ nart: Perl 6 will be suited for web app development, once it's a bit faster than today. We don't know yet in which niche it will be actually universally used
12:21 donri perplexa: oh, i meant "best compared"
12:21 moritz_ perplexa: donri said it's best to compare perl 6 to python and ruby
12:21 donri stupid ambiguity
12:21 perplexa ah :p
12:22 nart moritz_: I think that will be perl6 main problem.. no certain direction..
12:22 perplexa non-native speaker flaws here :)
12:22 donri nart: that's not a problem for python IME
12:22 * perplexa needs to improve his parser
12:22 donri perplexa: not your fault
12:22 donri my statement was ambiguous
12:23 flussence eh, I'm already using perl6 in place of a few shell scripts
12:23 moritz_ nart: in the case of general purpose programming languages, directions come from users, not from the language
12:24 donri A flexible enough language can be useful for multiple directions with strong libraries
12:26 nart moritz_: I am surely not as an expert in language design as perl6 guys.. but I think directions come actually from the Language and the users.. usually a language is designed for a reason.. like tcl, perl5, lisp.. etc.. each one had a reason to be created and an area to be used in.. don't you agree?
12:27 donri There's surely different niches where different languages show strength
12:27 moritz_ nart: well Perl 6 has a reason too: problems with Perl 5
12:27 donri but they're not as narrow as you make it sound IMO
12:27 flussence augment class Str { method cdata { self.trans(«< > & "», «&lt; &gt; &amp; &quot;») } }
12:28 moritz_ Perl was meant for text extracting and reporting; now it's everywhere in software QA, biologic computations, web development and sysadmin tasks
12:28 donri I rather find that a narrow direction hurts a language
12:28 flussence (hmm, if it's cdata then it doesn't need &quot; ...)
12:31 nart moritz_: as you see perl5 is not as famous as it was in late 90's.. so if perl6 is just some enhancements I think it will be hard for it to survive.. I think anyone would agree with me that perl5 will still be used for text processing for maybe the next 10-15 years.. So if text processing is perl5 thing, perl6 must have its own "thing"
12:31 moritz_ nart: Perl 6 is by no means "just some enhancements" to Perl 5. It's a fundamental redesign
12:32 moritz_ nart: and as far as I can tell perl 5 usage hasn't actually decreased - it's just that market has grown faster than perl 5 usage
12:33 gimix left #perl6
12:33 moritz_ all hard facts (for example upload statistics to CPAN) say that Perl 5 continues growing
12:33 Tene masonkramer: Ah, I hadn't noticed that before; I had remembered that as "any tripled delimiter".  Thanks.
12:33 coldhead left #perl6
12:35 Tene erm
12:35 dalek specs: d3c65df | tene++ | S02-bits.pod:
12:35 dalek specs: Fix an error pointed out by masak++
12:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/d3c65df6de
12:35 Tene masak: Ah, I hadn't noticed that before; I had remembered that as "any tripled delimiter".  Thanks.
12:35 Tene he's not around right now, though.
12:35 _twitch joined #perl6
12:36 nart moritz_: I do know few large corporations who still maintaining perl5 old projects, but the new projects are done in python. And that is not because perl5 is bad but it is just because python and other languages were evolving faster.. anyway.. we are talking about perl6 here.. the only thing I noticed that it is Fun to use it.. but sadly couldn't find where it will be suited in the near future..
12:37 Tene nart: My company is actively developing new perl 5 infrastructure, fwiw, as did both of my two previous employers.
12:37 donri anything those people use python for today, i'd say
12:37 moritz_ nart: everywhere that a general purpose programming language is suited
12:38 moritz_ donri: re _ in names: we still prefer to it in "internal" names, ie things that are not really meant to leak to the end user
12:38 moritz_ donri: e.g. things like MONKEY_TYPING (which you shouldn't be using)
12:38 flussence Perl 6 is not a railway, it's a boat. You can get from A to B quicker in other languages, but they won't let you go from A to ✪ as easily.
12:39 moritz_ flussence++ # nicely phrased, though I'd compare it to a helicopter instead :-)
12:39 nart flussence: by quicker (you mean less key strokes right?)
12:39 Axius joined #perl6
12:39 * moritz_ would be surprised if that was meant
12:40 flussence less effort, because in most languages all the interesting stuff's been written already and it's usually down to "import whatever"
12:40 Alias left #perl6
12:40 nart flussence: which is bad in you opinion?
12:40 donri but if parrot gets the act of a multilingual vm together...
12:40 flussence not at all
12:41 colomon I wouldn't say "all the interesting stuff" -- I'd say all the "routine stuff", or something like that.
12:41 flussence depends what interests you :)
12:42 moritz_ Perl 6 tries to be a tool box that enables you to build stuff, without building too many other tools first
12:42 nart moritz_: which is nice.. and most languages already provide..
12:42 moritz_ nart: to some extend
12:43 nart moritz_: yes, including perl5 and 6..
12:43 awoodland left #perl6
12:43 moritz_ we believe we can do better than existing languages; otherwise we wouldn't be trying
12:46 moritz_ I'm getting a test plan failure in S03-operators/identity.t... any idea why?
12:46 flussence yep
12:46 flussence http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-02-28#i_3341527
12:47 nart moritz_: I am sure it will.. I am a perl fan.. but was trying to give a note of something I thought is important for the language.. It is unique, fun, interesting. thanks for your time everybody..
12:47 moritz_ nart: thank you too; it seems we just disagree about the importance of direction
12:48 nart moritz_: I think deep insdie you, you will agree some day ;)
12:48 moritz_ nart: we'll see :-)
12:49 nart left #perl6
12:49 moritz_ flussence: oh, the tests were added to the wrong section
12:50 flussence I think that pod thing should be replaced with plain #s
12:51 moritz_ or maybe just deleted
12:51 flussence I tried it without, a few of those do fail
12:51 moritz_ they don't make much sense
12:51 moritz_ trying container identitiy on values is... weird.
12:51 qiyong left #perl6
12:52 flussence those should be eqv?
12:53 moritz_ dunno. Value equivalence is tested in other files.
12:53 JimmyZ joined #perl6
12:53 dalek roast: 73038b4 | moritz++ | S03-operators/identity.t:
12:53 dalek roast: clean up identity.t
12:53 dalek roast:
12:53 dalek roast: move return type tests out of POD comments
12:53 dalek roast: remove commented out tests that wrongly act on values, not containers
12:53 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/73038b4879
13:03 envi joined #perl6
13:07 donri moritz_: I guess _ is like __ in python
13:07 moritz_ donri: not really, we don't stick at the start and end of our identifiers
13:07 donri but purpose-wise
13:09 arnsholt Also, the distinction between for internal/external use is mostly pragmatic in Perl
13:09 moritz_ arnsholt: well, Perl 6 has private attributes and methods
13:11 arnsholt That's true
13:12 moritz_ and a _ in the name doesn't necessarily mean privacy
13:12 stifynsemons joined #perl6
13:12 moritz_ it just means "here is something a wee bit more hairy than usual"
13:14 donri yea that's kinda __x__ in python
13:14 donri it's not "private", more like "metalinguistic"
13:15 donri what do you do when there's a single-word term that's a little hairy? :D
13:15 flussence moritz_: Test.pm skip_rest also needs fixing :)
13:16 flussence (unless my copy's stale...)
13:16 moritz_ flussence: was my last commit not enough?
13:16 flussence (yep, mine's out of date. My bad.)
13:21 agentzh left #perl6
13:24 MayDaniel joined #perl6
13:24 MayDaniel left #perl6
13:24 MayDaniel joined #perl6
13:25 flussence 100% \o/
13:32 MayDaniel left #perl6
13:37 JimmyZ left #perl6
13:39 cjk101011 joined #perl6
13:45 Tedd1 joined #perl6
13:45 masonkramer left #perl6
13:46 masonkramer joined #perl6
13:50 awoodland joined #perl6
13:55 Shozan left #perl6
13:56 tonny joined #perl6
14:00 Axius left #perl6
14:05 kaare_ left #perl6
14:08 tadzik o/
14:08 phenny tadzik: 11:57Z <masak> tell tadzik merged; dziękuję.
14:11 risou joined #perl6
14:12 plobsing left #perl6
14:15 TimToady rakudo: my $mess = -> |$/ { "My $0 has $1" }; say $mess('dog', 'fleas')
14:15 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«My dog has fleas␤»
14:15 stifynsemons left #perl6
14:16 TimToady there's your positional interpolation :)
14:16 moritz_ it still requires eval, if I read 'My $0 has $1' from a file
14:17 stifynsemons joined #perl6
14:17 TimToady only if there's not some stricter version of eval suitable for that purpose
14:17 moritz_ right
14:17 TimToady remember eval is often an indicator of a missing feature
14:17 jnthn rakudo: my $mess = -> |$/ { "My $<pet> has $<illness>" }; $mess(pet => 'dog', illness => 'fleas');
14:17 p6eval rakudo 74dcce:  ( no output )
14:18 jnthn rakudo: my $mess = -> |$/ { "My $<pet> has $<illness>" }; say $mess(pet => 'dog', illness => 'fleas');
14:18 TimToady likewise BEGIN
14:18 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«My dog has fleas␤»
14:18 jnthn Cute :)
14:18 * moritz_ likes it
14:18 plainhao joined #perl6
14:18 tadzik nice
14:18 moritz_ it's also something I can fake up nicely until it's properly implemented
14:19 TimToady have we used qf yet?
14:19 hudnix joined #perl6
14:19 TimToady yes we have
14:19 moritz_ dunno, S02 doesn't fit into my head :-)
14:19 TimToady means to interpolate functions
14:20 moritz_ what did you want to use it for? (ie what should the 'f' have meant?)
14:20 TimToady format, presumably, but that doesn't help your file
14:20 TimToady we want a function to translate a format to a closure
14:21 donri TimToady: a stricter version of interpolation would totally satisfy what i like about python's format
14:21 stifynsemons left #perl6
14:22 TimToady and, in fact, sprintf("...", 1,2,3) could end up optimizing to such a closure, in a currying sort of way
14:23 TimToady (if the format is constant)
14:23 awoodland left #perl6
14:23 TimToady well, assuming the internal form doesn't have to recreate the format string...
14:24 TimToady now to think a bit more about sugar for .fmt('%7.3f')
14:25 TimToady if we reduced it to .%7.3f it would have to be an exception to the final () rule
14:26 donri rakudo: my $answer = 42; say "answer is %7.3f".fmt($answer)
14:26 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'fmt'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu : Str $format = { ... };; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/W1ux_DdJn_␤»
14:26 mberends joined #perl6
14:27 pigdude joined #perl6
14:27 moritz_ rakudo: say 42.fmt('%05d')
14:27 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«00042␤»
14:28 pigdude_ joined #perl6
14:28 tonny left #perl6
14:36 awoodland joined #perl6
14:40 kaare_ joined #perl6
14:43 sji left #perl6
14:48 PZt joined #perl6
14:51 pigdude_ left #perl6
14:51 pigdude left #perl6
14:51 pigdude joined #perl6
14:54 perplexa moritz_: .fmt? :/
14:55 perplexa as in vowels are overrated? :)
14:55 moritz_ perplexa: as in "keep often-used constructs short"
14:56 moritz_ aka hufmann coding
14:56 moritz_ time will tell if .format would have been a better choice
14:56 perplexa hmm
14:56 * perplexa doesn't mind either choice
14:57 perplexa i actually like short method names
14:57 mberends I'm tending to prefer longer, more self-documenting words these days.
14:57 perplexa might get confusing if you have to remember lots of them, tho
14:57 perplexa i think pros and cons are pretty balanced there
14:58 mberends aye
14:58 spq joined #perl6
14:58 JimmyZ joined #perl6
14:59 cotto joined #perl6
15:01 pigdude left #perl6
15:02 [Coke] keeping things short JUST to keep them short is silly.
15:03 [Coke] readability (and consistency) are also important.
15:03 Juerd Except when there's not enough room for them to be longer :)
15:04 Juerd For example, Java code tends to have reallyLongIdentifiersThatArentReallyHelpfulInKeepingYourLinesyWithin80Characters
15:05 Juerd And it's a clear example of how long identifiers can hurt readability too
15:05 Juerd From that point of view, "format" is already short.
15:05 * Juerd prefers "format" to "fmt", by the way.
15:06 Juerd But I'd abbreviate "configuration" to "config". Not "cfg" or "conf" though, except in filenames.
15:07 mberends How come Java identifiers are often so long? Did some authority define that as Best Practice?
15:09 daxim left #perl6
15:09 risou_ joined #perl6
15:09 arnsholt Some of the conventions of Java are essentially workarounds for the fact that Java doesn't have proper lambdas
15:09 arnsholt The Visitor pattern for example is just a map
15:10 arnsholt Another part of it is the whole EnterpriseNeedsVerbosityConstraint I think
15:11 araujo joined #perl6
15:11 alester joined #perl6
15:11 risou left #perl6
15:12 mberends I'm guilty of inventing overly long names for things to avoid risk of collisions when working in a single namespace (eg in C).
15:12 arnsholt Yeah, C has different problems. Namespaces being one of them
15:12 arnsholt Also, C prgrmrs ht cnsnnts
15:13 alester Not good ones.
15:13 mberends rnshlt: I don't hate them ;)
15:13 alester See what I mean?
15:15 wtw left #perl6
15:17 frettled whts wrng wth cnsnnts?
15:17 colomon arnsholt: to be precise, Visitor is a hideously ugly map.
15:17 mberends frttld: th'r rdndnt
15:18 colomon arnsholt: and Visitor also allows a foolish adherence to fundamentally insane ideas about OOP.
15:18 tadzik http://blog.kraih.com/a-logo-for-perl-5 has some p6 references
15:20 arnsholt Er, right. C prgrmrs ht vwls is of course the right one =D
15:21 arnsholt I confuse vowels and consonants embarrassangly often, considering I'm supposed to be a linguist
15:21 pigdude joined #perl6
15:22 donri don't you guys mean vowels
15:22 donri oh you already said
15:23 arnsholt Indeed. For some reaon I never can keep the two straight in my brain
15:23 frettled ee: o you eay i e ou ue oy oe?
15:26 nymacro left #perl6
15:26 arnsholt colomon: My Common Lisp fundamentalist friend has a whole laundry list of things that are broken in Java simply because it lacks lambdas =D
15:27 bluescreen joined #perl6
15:28 moritz_ well, lack of lambdas/closures heavily influences the design of libraries
15:31 arnsholt Exactly =)
15:31 MayDaniel joined #perl6
15:33 sorear "What would you do differently if you redesigned UNIX today?" Ken: "I would spell creat(2) with an e."
15:34 moritz_ :-)
15:35 arnsholt The world is no longer limited to 8.3. Oh joy =)
15:36 colomon moritz_, arnsholt: The other bad thing about the Visitor pattern, though, isn't just the lack of lambdas.  It's the idea that it's somehow better to code a new class with a method for each type which might be visited than it is to write a given / when statement that branches on type.
15:38 mberends left #perl6
15:38 colomon That's placing a (IMO dubious) OOP principle over writing straightforward code.
15:38 arnsholt Indeed
15:40 am0c joined #perl6
15:40 mberends joined #perl6
15:41 jnthn I find code that is a tangle of complicated hierarchies much worse to dig into than code that is just in a big chunk that really shoulda been broken out into manageable pieces. At least in the second case it's all in front of you in one place.
15:42 satyavvd joined #perl6
15:42 colomon Right.
15:43 sorear good * #perl6
15:44 mberends good * sorear
15:44 colomon The first time you're stepping through the code, and you have to step into the Visit method (jumping to another source file, of course), and then step into the VisitCircle method (back to the original file, but in a different spot), only to realize that you don't have access to the local variables from the point of the call that the straightforward approach would allow you....
15:46 plobsing joined #perl6
15:46 MayDaniel left #perl6
15:46 donri The point in Java is usually to write in such a way that you don't need to understand it
15:46 donri So you "shouldn't" look at the visit method, it should just DTRT
15:47 donri and you should Trust It
15:48 arnsholt colomon: Which is why I use anonymous inner classes as much as possible in Java =)
15:51 justatheory joined #perl6
15:59 jaldhar left #perl6
15:59 jaldhar joined #perl6
15:59 JimmyZ left #perl6
16:01 * TimToady back after power failure...
16:01 Rotwang joined #perl6
16:01 awoodland left #perl6
16:02 * moritz_ hopes TimToady rebooted just fine, and has lost no data
16:03 TimToady well, laptop was fine on batter, but rebooted on purpose to finish update :)
16:03 TimToady *battery
16:16 Patterner left #perl6
16:19 Psyche^ joined #perl6
16:19 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
16:21 ymasory_ left #perl6
16:27 am0c left #perl6
16:28 envi left #perl6
16:33 tzhs left #perl6
16:34 bluescreen left #perl6
16:44 kanishka joined #perl6
16:54 satyavvd left #perl6
17:00 dalek niecza: b94a627 | sorear++ | / (8 files):
17:00 dalek niecza: Revise downcall protocol (ki9a++) and use downcalls to invoke CLRBackend
17:00 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b94a627470
17:01 tadzik if I "use Foo::Bar", I can't "class Foo", for "Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'Foo'". Why so?
17:01 moritz_ tadzik: because of rakudobug.
17:01 moritz_ rakudo: class A { ... }; class A { }
17:01 p6eval rakudo 74dcce:  ( no output )
17:01 tadzik Aroo
17:02 tadzik I'll name it Not_Foo
17:02 moritz_ using a class Foo::Bar should have the same as effect as stubbing class Foo
17:02 donri FooButNotThatOtherFoo
17:02 moritz_ rakudo doesn't do that
17:03 PerlJam moritz_: "stubbing class Foo" is over stating it a bit isn't it?  Foo doesn't have to be a class at all.
17:04 sorear moritz_: care to elaborate on semantics? I haven't figured out a good way to make Foo::Bar "just work" in Niecza yet
17:04 moritz_ PerlJam: right, it should stub package foo
17:04 moritz_ std: class Foo::Bar { }; say Foo
17:04 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared name:␤    'Foo' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
17:04 moritz_ if std is correct, it shouldn't even stub Foo
17:05 moritz_ sorear: actually I'm not really sure how it works
17:05 sorear std probably isn't correct, except maybe by accident
17:05 sorear I've learned a great distrust of std's package handling
17:06 moritz_ sorear: fyi nicza fails to build on my system (and did so before your last commit too)
17:06 moritz_ mono 2.6.7
17:06 stifynsemons joined #perl6
17:07 sorear yeah, I got that report from flussence++ earlier
17:07 moritz_ I'm still trying to get to the first error message, they scroll out of my window, and I can't seem to get the redirection working :(
17:07 sorear flussence's first error was: runtime version not available, using 1.1
17:08 sorear it seems like my mono 2.11 is building niecza to use the 4.0 runtime (introduced in mono 2.8)
17:08 PerlJam moritz_: you don't have script(1) ?
17:08 sorear I need to figure out what's going on later
17:08 moritz_ PerlJam: I have, and I just started it :-)
17:08 stifynsemons left #perl6
17:08 stifyn joined #perl6
17:09 flussence flussence-- # don't think it was me who reported that...
17:09 sorear moritz_: unrelatedly, niecza is having exception structuring issues
17:09 moritz_ yes, error is similar here
17:09 moritz_ sorear: care to elaborate?
17:09 sorear I'm starting to reach the limits of "$! is a string"
17:10 moritz_ ah
17:10 sorear e.g. in the REPL, I don't want exceptions to kill the process, but if I catch them, I lose the backtrace
17:10 moritz_ I expect $! to have a .trace method or something
17:11 sorear to what extent are "standardized Exception objects" part of your grant agenda?
17:11 sorear I'm interested in workable ideas
17:12 cjk101011 left #perl6
17:14 moritz_ I want to catalogue existing messages
17:14 moritz_ and give them some sort of identifiers by which you can test them (maybe enums?)
17:15 moritz_ and then unify the messages across implementations
17:16 moritz_ and give the tags/properties like "parse time", "compile time", "run time" and things like "regex", "dispatch", "type check" etc.
17:16 moritz_ sorear: does that answer your question?
17:20 sorear Yes
17:20 moritz_ does it also sound sane to you?
17:21 sorear mostly
17:21 moritz_ and do you have any additional wishes/ideas for that part of the exception system?
17:21 moritz_ mostly? which part does not sound sane?
17:21 sorear I'm curious to see what you do about things like "State declarations NYI"
17:22 moritz_ it'll probably be in a 'nonstandard' and/or 'internal' category
17:22 moritz_ maybe s/nonstandard/deviation from standard/
17:22 sorear let's call them "substandard" errors
17:23 plobsing left #perl6
17:24 moritz_ I guess it even has applications is "completed" implementations
17:24 moritz_ ie if you compile to JS, and can't use IO or something
17:25 PerlJam if you get rid of "yet" in the wording, certainly  :)
17:27 moritz_ aye
17:29 sorear an implementation without IO surely counts as substandard
17:29 PerlJam depends on what you consider "standard"
17:29 sorear passes 100% of roast
17:30 PerlJam so ... all implementations are substandard?
17:30 moritz_ currently, yes
17:31 * sorear was trying to pun
17:31 PerlJam "substandard" just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
17:31 moritz_ it sounds like "low quality"
17:32 moritz_ when we really mean "subset of the standard"
17:33 plobsing joined #perl6
17:33 sorear The double meaning in my suggestion was deliberate
17:34 PerlJam sorear: well then, while I appreciate the pun, it sounds a little too snarky for Perl 6.  Maybe you can use it with Perl 5 though  :)
17:45 kanishka left #perl6
17:46 sorear TimToady: What will become of PL_delaymagic and $*EUID, $*UID = $*UID, $*EUID ?
17:50 donri aren't errors for NYI outside the standard?
17:50 donri in a way a "superstandard"
17:50 donri parastandard :)
17:51 PerlJam donri++ I like the way you think  :)
17:54 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
17:55 jnthn morning, pmichaud
17:57 orafu left #perl6
17:57 stifyn left #perl6
18:02 sorear hello pmichaud!!
18:03 cdarroch joined #perl6
18:03 cdarroch left #perl6
18:03 cdarroch joined #perl6
18:04 bluescreen joined #perl6
18:04 _twitch left #perl6
18:07 stifynsemons joined #perl6
18:09 hanekomu left #perl6
18:09 tadzik hello pmichaud
18:14 colomon \o
18:15 pigdude_ joined #perl6
18:16 pigdude left #perl6
18:16 rgrau joined #perl6
18:21 risou_ left #perl6
18:25 plobsing left #perl6
18:26 masak joined #perl6
18:26 masak evening, zebras.
18:26 pigdude_ left #perl6
18:26 moritz_ \o
18:26 moritz_ masak: I'm still waiting for the p5 review :-)
18:26 masak a lot of us are :P
18:27 pigdude joined #perl6
18:27 masak I'm terribly sorry for the delay. $dayjob is sucking up my tuits at present.
18:28 masak it's on top of my TODO stack, though.
18:28 sorear hi masak
18:29 PerlJam masak is reviewing perl 5?!?!?
18:29 PerlJam *innocent look*
18:30 masak next year I'll call the tasks... oh, I already said that.
18:30 sorear ok, the time has come to formally depend on Mono 2.8
18:30 sorear or rather, on the NET_4_0 profile
18:31 masak how come?
18:31 sorear I need it for garbage-collection of runtime-generated code
18:31 moritz_ debian testing doesn't have that yet :(
18:31 * moritz_ will need to compile from source
18:32 masak it's harsh at the frontier.
18:32 pmichaud You can tell the pioneers by the pointy blocks in their backs.
18:32 masak pmichaud! \o/
18:32 pmichaud for @arrows -> { say 'ouch!' }
18:33 masak pmichaud: a pun worthy of Worthington :P
18:34 masak if Perl 6 had come before Lisp, would the blog have been called "pblock the Ultimate"?
18:36 dsp_ moritz_: is it not in debian experimental
18:36 dsp_ then again that will probably want to pull in a bunch of other stuff
18:38 * masak .oO( conservatively experimental )
18:39 plobsing joined #perl6
18:39 sorear masak: "lambda" goes back to the sketches of Alonzo Church
18:39 masak sorear: oh! I should have known.
18:40 sorear originally, it was λ
18:40 masak well, if Turing had published before Church, would the blog have been called "State Machine the Universal"? :P
18:40 jnthn :P
18:40 jnthn o/ masak
18:40 masak jnthn! \o/
18:40 sorear Lisp decided to use "lambda"; Haskell picked the closest ASCII char, "\", but still called them lambdas
18:41 sorear Perl 6 uses "->", and calls them pointies
18:41 lopaway is now known as lopnor
18:41 masak sorear: pointy-haired blocks :)
18:41 jnthn Perl 6 gets the point of functional programming. :)
18:42 sorear also, why do I have ctrl-shift-3BB memorized?
18:44 masak λ
18:44 flussence it's perfectly normal to commit random unicode chars to memory (IMO)
18:44 flussence .u 263a
18:44 phenny U+263A WHITE SMILING FACE (☺)
18:44 masak C-u C-\ greek RET l in Emacs :)
18:44 sbp it's a lamb, duh
18:45 masak I see everyone in the pun committee has come. let the meeting begin.
18:45 sbp don't mention meatings with lambs around
18:45 sorear flussence: emphasis on the random
18:45 sorear I have basically all of 0-7F, sure
18:45 moritz_ .u beverage
18:45 phenny U+2615 HOT BEVERAGE (☕)
18:46 moritz_ I can't even remember that one :-)
18:46 sorear also 3BB, 3000, 3080, 4e03, fffe, fffd
18:46 masak .u hot
18:46 phenny U+2668 HOT SPRINGS (♨)
18:53 dalek niecza: 6905b60 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
18:53 dalek niecza: Run MAIN units without a temporary file, using a collectable assembly
18:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6905b60003
18:53 lopnor is now known as lopaway
19:04 moritz_ parallel build of mono failed
19:04 moritz_ sequential succeeded
19:14 flussence rakudo: 'abc' ~~ m:p(1)/^a/;
19:14 p6eval rakudo 74dcce:  ( no output )
19:14 flussence rakudo: 'abc' ~~ m:p(0)/^a/;
19:14 p6eval rakudo 74dcce:  ( no output )
19:14 flussence oh
19:14 flussence rakudo: ('abc' ~~ m:p(1)/^a/).perl.say;
19:14 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 1,␤ orig => "abc",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
19:14 flussence rakudo: ('abc' ~~ m:p(0)/^a/).perl.say;
19:14 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "abc",␤ to   => 1,␤)␤»
19:17 moritz_ rakudo: ('abc' ~~ m:p(0)/^a/).pretty.say;
19:17 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«=> <a>␤␤»
19:17 flussence when did that get added?!
19:18 moritz_ Fri Jan 7 21:34:18 2011 +0100
19:18 colomon month or two ago
19:18 flussence doh.
19:18 flussence (I always seem to overlook the good bits)
19:25 dalek niecza: 3605ac1 | sorear++ | / (7 files):
19:25 dalek niecza: Implement eval.  Eval return values not yet working
19:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3605ac1118
19:25 * sorear out
19:26 bluescreen left #perl6
19:28 plobsing left #perl6
19:29 shi joined #perl6
19:29 plobsing joined #perl6
19:31 og01 joined #perl6
19:34 diakopter niecza: eval "say 4452"
19:35 p6eval niecza v3-14-g3605ac1: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NotSupportedException: RunAndCollect not yet supported.␤␤Server stack trace: ␤  at System.Reflection.Emit.AssemblyBuilder..ctor (System.Reflection.AssemblyName n, System.String directory, AssemblyBuilderAccess access, Boolean
19:35 p6eval ..corlib_internal) [0x00000] i…
19:36 moritz_ time to install a custom mono on that host
19:37 Mowah left #perl6
19:37 Mowah joined #perl6
19:37 flussence (argh, I understand how Text::Wrap works now. It's pretty horrific)
19:39 flussence start with full text, giant if/elsif block that regexes bits off the beginning then overwrites the text variable with the remainder that didn't match.
19:39 flussence there's quite a few situations where the regexes can match a zero-length string...
19:42 Mowah left #perl6
19:42 Mowah joined #perl6
19:47 alester left #perl6
19:56 noganex left #perl6
20:04 lamstyle left #perl6
20:05 fhelmberger left #perl6
20:05 noganex joined #perl6
20:09 PacoLinux left #perl6
20:10 diakopter moritz_: feel free... I have a 2.8.2 under ~/sprixel/clr but feel free to put a 2.10.1 or 2.12.pre somewhere
20:13 tadzik masak: aloha
20:20 masak tadzik: bom dia
20:23 tadzik masak: I decided neutro needs to be incinerated, and I need to write a modular, testable solution. I ended up with something being, pretty much, Pls :)
20:24 masak O RLY?
20:24 masak can't we just work on pls together? :)
20:24 masak it's almost finished...
20:24 mberends oh, the curse of the module-installer-killer strikes again...
20:24 masak there's a curse?
20:25 mberends can't we just use CPAN?
20:25 masak ah, that curse. :)
20:25 tadzik masak: Pies is finished too :)
20:25 masak "Pies"? :)
20:25 tadzik I alredy implemented what was neutro's initial commit using it, now pushing it further
20:25 tadzik well, just a name :)
20:25 tadzik phenny: "pies"?
20:25 phenny tadzik: "feet" (es to en, translate.google.com)
20:25 jnthn Mmm....pie
20:25 dju_ left #perl6
20:26 tadzik nah, not exactly phenny :)
20:26 masak π π π π π π π π
20:26 tadzik Pies is a Polish dog :)
20:26 jnthn Oh :)
20:26 masak Poland has a dog?
20:26 tadzik yeah
20:26 jnthn Just one.
20:26 jnthn ;)
20:26 masak and it's called Pies.
20:26 cjk101011 joined #perl6
20:27 tadzik no no, that's just a specification
20:27 tadzik an implementation is, e.g. Panda_the_Dog
20:27 tadzik that's due to Rakudobug :)
20:27 mberends "sPiesification"
20:27 masak dogs seem very complicated in Polish...
20:27 tadzik and since I alredy told everybody, I can as well push it and stop keeping it secret :)
20:28 mberends my Dog $pies;
20:28 tadzik I really like class Panda is Pies
20:28 tadzik Panda is my dog, irl :)
20:29 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/Pies
20:29 tadzik https://github.com/tadzik/Pies/blob/master/bin/ufobuilder is a Pies in action, works :)
20:30 mberends tadzik++
20:31 tadzik compared to Pls, an Ecosystem and State are a bit different, but you were uncatchable masak, so I couldn't discuss it with ya
20:31 tadzik mberends: yeah, that's all to have something to bother with at the hackathon :)
20:32 masak tadzik: sorry about being unreachable. I'm working on that.
20:32 tadzik just testing an implementation using our big module ecosystem
20:32 tadzik masak: worry not! At least you have some life :P
20:32 masak tadzik: I'm generally very happy that you are making headway.
20:32 masak tadzik: being unreachable does not necessarily imply having a life, trust me :)
20:33 tadzik masak: I'd like to discuss the ecosystem things, and the roles you figured out for the... Roles :)
20:33 tadzik yeah, I just installed List::Utils with Panda
20:36 pigdude_ joined #perl6
20:36 pigdude left #perl6
20:37 pigdude_ left #perl6
20:37 pigdude joined #perl6
20:40 tadzik ohh, I know what a module manager needs. A REPL
20:40 tadzik because parsing JSON takes ages
20:41 masak how does a REPL help against JSON parsing taking ages?
20:41 tadzik we don't launch the module manager on every module we want to try, so the json is parsed once
20:42 jnthn Maybe at $hackathon we'll have to look a little at why the JSON parse is so slow.
20:42 tadzik 30-40 seconds of runtime of every module manager using the "official" ecosystem now is dedicated to parsing json
20:43 tadzik jnthn: I'm afraid that's Rakudo, not JSON. .perl'ing the parsed json and evaling it later takes 20-30 seconds too
20:43 tadzik so I'd say that object construction is slow as hell
20:43 tadzik so we're pretty much waiting for 6model :)
20:43 jnthn tadzik: Oh, I know it's a Rakudo issue.
20:43 jnthn tadzik: Yeah, but it's good to understand *why* it's so slow.
20:44 PerlJam tadzik: 6model isn't going to be a panacea
20:44 jnthn tadzik: To make sure I really will deal with that in 6model.
20:44 jnthn If it's something that's within the scope of it.
20:44 jnthn It may be in a totally separate set of issues.
20:44 jnthn e.g. stuff we can improve Right Away.
20:46 tadzik I see
20:46 masak tadzik: fwiw, it was for speed reasons that I chose slurp/eval for proto.
20:46 tadzik masak: did it help much?
20:46 tadzik Well, times were different
20:47 tadzik ^^ <name> <url> $$ files were hell faster to parse
20:47 masak tadzik: slurp/eval is faster than the JSON parser, yes.
20:47 tadzik masak: not much, see above
20:47 tadzik I mean, it's still painful as hell to use
20:47 masak ok.
20:47 stkowski joined #perl6
20:51 * masak sleeps
20:51 tadzik owait, there's hope?
20:51 masak godnatt, #perl6.
20:52 masak left #perl6
20:52 tadzik Sqlite works, right?
20:52 tadzik oh, bye masonkramer
20:52 tadzik erm, masak
20:52 tadzik masonkramer: sorry, nevermind
20:54 plobsing left #perl6
20:55 plobsing joined #perl6
20:56 Bzek left #perl6
20:58 rdesfo joined #perl6
20:58 jferrero joined #perl6
20:59 tadzik hrm, is there anything in Perl 6/Rakudo emmiting "Died" and dying?
20:59 tadzik I don't have anything like this in my code
21:00 moritz_ rakudo: die
21:00 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«Died␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7fDF2xA1sk␤»
21:00 colomon src/builtins/control.pir
21:00 colomon 61:    message = "Died\n"
21:01 colomon appears to be the only use of "Died" in the source code.  :)
21:01 colomon and yup, that's in sub die.
21:02 plobsing left #perl6
21:02 mberends left #perl6
21:04 tadzik hrm. Looks like some string is under-evaluated
21:05 GinoMan joined #perl6
21:09 mberends joined #perl6
21:16 cjk101011 left #perl6
21:17 coldhead joined #perl6
21:18 Bzek joined #perl6
21:40 Mowah left #perl6
21:40 plobsing joined #perl6
21:47 shi left #perl6
21:49 donaldh joined #perl6
21:50 moritz_ sorear: fwiw with mono 2.10.1 I get some regressions in spectest
21:50 moritz_ t/spec/S02-builtin_data_types/bool.t .......................... 1/45 Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: N
21:52 shi joined #perl6
21:53 dalek evalbot: 762d62c | moritz++ | build-scripts/rebuild-niecza.sh:
21:53 dalek evalbot: [niecza build] use mono 2.10.0
21:53 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/762d62c28e
21:54 moritz_ sorear: appears in a lot of tests
21:56 pigdude left #perl6
22:00 pigdude joined #perl6
22:18 plainhao left #perl6
22:23 dorlamm joined #perl6
22:30 mikehh joined #perl6
22:32 drake1 joined #perl6
22:32 drake1 hello
22:32 drake1 i've been visiting parrot
22:33 drake1 and it seems they have not yet integrated the parallel semantics
22:33 drake1 at native level
22:33 pigdude left #perl6
22:34 kaare_ left #perl6
22:35 drake1 so now you know
22:36 drake1 left #perl6
22:38 * jnthn already knew that :P
22:39 * plobsing guesses even if parrot "integrated the parallel semantics at native level" (whatever that means), Rakudo would have more pressing issues anyways.
22:39 jnthn That said, if it was easy enough to implement some parallelism constructs in Rakudo atop of Parrot, we'd probably have done it by now.
22:40 jnthn It has been tried.
22:40 cosimo joined #perl6
22:42 cosimo hi there!
22:42 jdhore howdy!
22:42 cosimo is proto still TheWay(tm) to install modules?
22:43 envi joined #perl6
22:43 Rotwang left #perl6
22:45 donri isn't that neutro?
22:47 shi left #perl6
22:47 cosimo donri: neutro, right github/perl6/neutro I suppose?
22:53 donri no idea
22:53 dromedary joined #perl6
22:56 stkowski left #perl6
23:01 moritz__ joined #perl6
23:01 silug_ joined #perl6
23:01 broquain1 joined #perl6
23:01 _jaldhar joined #perl6
23:01 GinoMan_ joined #perl6
23:02 zamolxes_ joined #perl6
23:03 knewt2_ joined #perl6
23:03 cxreg2 joined #perl6
23:03 woldrich_ joined #perl6
23:04 masonkramer_ joined #perl6
23:04 franek joined #perl6
23:04 stepnem_ joined #perl6
23:04 jesus24 joined #perl6
23:04 rgrau_ joined #perl6
23:05 jesus24 left #perl6
23:05 araujo_ joined #perl6
23:05 Helios` joined #perl6
23:05 hugme left #perl6
23:07 hatseflats left #perl6
23:07 tadzik left #perl6
23:07 zostay_ joined #perl6
23:07 pmichaud left #perl6
23:07 Util left #perl6
23:08 dorlamm left #perl6
23:08 donaldh left #perl6
23:08 GinoMan left #perl6
23:08 rgrau left #perl6
23:08 Patterner left #perl6
23:08 jaldhar left #perl6
23:08 araujo left #perl6
23:08 masonkramer left #perl6
23:08 nrr left #perl6
23:08 aindilis left #perl6
23:08 stepnem left #perl6
23:08 dalek left #perl6
23:08 knewt2 left #perl6
23:08 zamolxes left #perl6
23:08 zostay left #perl6
23:08 aesop left #perl6
23:08 meteorjay left #perl6
23:08 ashleydev left #perl6
23:08 aloha left #perl6
23:08 silug left #perl6
23:08 Helios- left #perl6
23:08 moritz_ left #perl6
23:08 cxreg left #perl6
23:08 rokoteko left #perl6
23:08 lestrrat left #perl6
23:08 broquaint left #perl6
23:08 woldrich left #perl6
23:08 hcchien left #perl6
23:08 stepnem_ is now known as stepnem
23:08 masonkramer_ is now known as masonkramer
23:08 PerlJam left #perl6
23:08 Juerd left #perl6
23:08 aloha joined #perl6
23:09 dalek joined #perl6
23:10 rokoteko joined #perl6
23:10 araujo_ left #perl6
23:10 diakopter niecza: eval 'say 43642'
23:10 p6eval niecza : OUTPUT«Cannot open assembly './run/Niecza.exe': No such file or directory.␤»
23:10 nrr joined #perl6
23:11 tadzik joined #perl6
23:11 araujo joined #perl6
23:11 araujo left #perl6
23:11 araujo joined #perl6
23:12 lestrrat joined #perl6
23:13 aesop joined #perl6
23:13 ashleydev joined #perl6
23:14 Util joined #perl6
23:14 hatseflats joined #perl6
23:14 hcchien joined #perl6
23:14 meteorjay joined #perl6
23:14 pmichaud joined #perl6
23:15 PerlJam joined #perl6
23:15 Psyche^ joined #perl6
23:15 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
23:15 mkramer left #perl6
23:16 skangas joined #perl6
23:25 colomon cosimo: neutro is the new way to install modules.  It's still very new, however.
23:27 s1n left #perl6
23:28 cosimo FTR, neutro is https://github.com/tadzik/neutro
23:30 sorear good * #perl6
23:32 franek left #perl6
23:32 pmichaud left #perl6
23:32 sorear diakopter: what's going on?
23:32 pmichaud joined #perl6
23:33 Juerd joined #perl6
23:35 sorear moritz__, diakopter: if you want to pick up a new version of mono, it helps to put it at the *beginning* of $PATH
23:37 sorear niecza: eval "say 2 + 2"
23:37 p6eval niecza v3-14-g3605ac1: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NotSupportedException: RunAndCollect not yet supported.␤␤Server stack trace: ␤  at System.Reflection.Emit.AssemblyBuilder..ctor (System.Reflection.AssemblyName n, System.String directory, AssemblyBuilderAccess access, Boolean
23:37 p6eval ..corlib_internal) [0x00000] i…
23:37 pigdude joined #perl6
23:38 sorear evalbot control restart
23:38 p6eval left #perl6
23:39 p6eval joined #perl6
23:39 sorear niecza: eval "say 2 + 2"
23:39 p6eval niecza v3-14-g3605ac1: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NotSupportedException: RunAndCollect not yet supported.␤␤Server stack trace: ␤  at System.Reflection.Emit.AssemblyBuilder..ctor (System.Reflection.AssemblyName n, System.String directory, AssemblyBuilderAccess access, Boolean
23:39 p6eval ..corlib_internal) [0x00000] i…
23:41 donri colomon: FYI they're all described and linked at http://modules.perl6.org/
23:41 donri cosimo: *
23:41 donri sorry colomon
23:41 colomon donri: I was wondering why you were telling me that.  :)
23:42 leprevost joined #perl6
23:44 dromedary left #perl6
23:44 franek joined #perl6
23:44 s1n joined #perl6
23:46 sorear diakopter: oops.  RunAndCollect was added to Mono on Feb 9
23:46 sorear diakopter: I guess I'll revert that to just Run for now

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo