Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-03-01

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:14 dalek niecza: 11bf899 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
00:14 dalek niecza: Revert use of collectable assemblies for eval
00:14 dalek niecza:
00:14 dalek niecza: It turns out they've only been supported in Mono since Feb 09 2010.
00:14 dalek niecza: This does mean eval will leak memory.  Try not to overuse it.
00:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/11bf8999c1
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00:31 tadzik neutro did not age gently
00:31 tadzik *, I'm asleep now
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00:36 sorear niecza: eval "say 2 " ~ "+ 2"
00:36 p6eval niecza v3-15-g11bf899: OUTPUT«4␤»
00:38 dalek evalbot: d582aa5 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
00:38 dalek evalbot: Fix niecza build and execution
00:38 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/d582aa591c
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01:03 sorear moritz__: I don't get any FormatExceptions with t/spec/S02/bool
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01:19 donri sorear: wait what eval returns stdout?
01:20 donri oh wait nevermind :D
01:20 donri parsefail
01:25 dalek niecza: 762eae4 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
01:25 dalek niecza: Note 2.6 breakage in README
01:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/762eae42f8
01:25 dalek niecza: a7846ce | sorear++ | / (3 files):
01:25 dalek niecza: Turn panics and sorries into catchable exceptions
01:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a7846ce1ea
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01:58 dalek niecza: 980923f | sorear++ | lib/Test.pm6:
01:58 dalek niecza: Implement eval_dies_ok, eval_lives_ok
01:58 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/980923f746
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02:01 sorear niecza: say -1
02:01 p6eval niecza v3-17-ga7846ce: OUTPUT«-1␤»
02:02 sorear HEY!  Someone swapped the arguments to skip!
02:03 dalek niecza: 0711b24 | sorear++ | lib/Test.pm6:
02:03 dalek niecza: Track &skip API change
02:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0711b24b4d
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02:31 qiyong does perl6 have a native implementation?
02:31 qiyong not on vm
02:34 sorear What does that question mean?
02:35 qiyong does perl6 have a native implementation? like the perl5, not the rakudo
02:36 plobsing perl5 walks a tree of ppcodes, which is very much what I would define as a VM
02:38 sorear perl 5's internal VM is slower than Parrot at a lot of stuff
02:38 sorear just because it doesn't have a name doesn't mean it doesn't exist
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02:40 donri maybe they mean interpreter, or wonder if parrot can be bundled into rakudo
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03:50 qiyong sorear, is there a perl5 parrot implement?
03:51 qiyong rakudo is a perl6 compiler target at parrot?
03:51 JimmyZ qiyong, are you chinese?
03:53 qiyong JimmyZ, why
03:54 JimmyZ looks like you're chinese.
03:54 JimmyZ I'm chinese
03:54 qiyong you can see my face?
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03:56 JimmyZ from your nick, if you're curious
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04:55 mberends qiyong: SMOP is a non virtual machine runtime for Perl 6, but it is incomplete and has not been worked on for about two years :-( http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?smop
05:02 mberends qiyong: Ponie was a project more than 2 years ago to implement Perl 5 on the same runtime as Perl 6, but that was abandoned because the developers could not make it work reasonably.
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05:45 sorear In what sense do you call SMOP "non virtual macine"?
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05:45 sorear JimmyZ: out of curiousity, how did you come to be called "Jimmy"?
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05:49 woosley qiyong looks like a chinese name
05:50 sorear see also: http://www.ip2location.com/60.23.248.89
05:52 tadzik what an investigation
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05:53 mberends sorear: to quote Daniel Ruoso from the perlfoundation page, "SMOP is not a Virtual Machine. SMOP is simply a runtime engine that happens to have a interpreter run loop."  AFAIK that means compilers targeting SMOP emit C code that makes calls into the SMOP runtime system.
05:54 woosley What is std.pm6 different from rakudo and other implements? I see they all can run perl6 code
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05:57 mberends woosley: STD.pm6 is a reference grammar (with a working parser) only. Niecza can compiler and execute a subset of what STD.pm6 describes. Rakudo has a slightly different grammar and can also execute much more of your code.
05:57 mberends *compile
05:59 woosley mberends:  So STD.pm6 can not execute perl6 code
05:59 mberends woosley: correct
06:01 sorear std: say 2 + 2
06:01 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
06:01 sorear it just does semantic checking
06:02 woosley perl6: 2+2
06:02 p6eval pugs, rakudo 74dcce, niecza v3-19-g0711b24:  ( no output )
06:04 sorear mberends: I cry a little inside when people describe (any piece of software which defines a specialized programming environment) as "not a virtual machine"
06:04 tadzik std: say "ok 00:01 {150.rand.Int}m" # my favourite joke
06:04 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
06:05 mberends sorear: you're too sentimental ;)
06:05 Tene sorear: +1
06:06 mberends anything which interprets is a virtual machine by some definition, I suppose.
06:08 JimmyZ sorear: my employer asked for  my english name, not chinese;)
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06:34 * mberends wonders about rescuing SMOP from the Pugs catacombs. Where to find some more tuits?
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06:34 diakopter mberends: and even round ones!
06:34 mberends heh
06:39 sorear mberends: maybe ask a VB6 or ActiveX developer
06:39 mberends lol
06:39 sorear SMOP is, coincedentally, extremely similar to MS COM at the ABI level
06:39 sorear it would probably take less than a month to make it completely compatible
06:40 sorear and then you could embed perl 6 in IE6
06:40 diakopter :)
06:41 diakopter using a NaCl plugin, mono (and thus niecza (and rakudo/mono)) will be in IE, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, etc...
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06:41 diakopter (someday)
06:42 diakopter oh yeah, Safari
06:42 sorear NaCl better than Moonlight?
06:47 diakopter I'd think so
06:47 diakopter *imagine
06:48 diakopter all the cool interpreters are porting to NaCl
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06:53 sorear do you think nacl will ever have significant market penetration?
06:53 dalek niecza: c01053e | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
06:53 dalek niecza: Remove test which never should have worked
06:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c01053e23a
06:53 dalek niecza: 31427c7 | sorear++ | lib/SAFE.setting:
06:53 dalek niecza: Fix $str ~~ m// always being true
06:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/31427c7aa6
06:53 dalek niecza: 12393a7 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
06:53 dalek niecza: Fix compiler crash on [+]
06:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/12393a7e51
07:09 dalek niecza: 1237dcf | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
07:09 dalek niecza: Remove another file that only passed by accident
07:09 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1237dcf92c
07:09 dalek roast: b8687da | sorear++ | S0 (4 files):
07:09 dalek roast: Refudge a few evals for niecza
07:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b8687da9d2
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07:14 moritz__ good morning
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07:16 sorear good night
07:22 moritz__ fwiw the FormatExceptions seem to be gone now
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07:34 diakopter phenny: tell sorear "tough to see".  NaCl has a lot of potential, especially if Adobe teams up with Google (like it seems might occur)
07:34 phenny diakopter: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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08:01 dalek roast: 9944532 | moritz++ | S04-statements/return.t:
08:01 dalek roast: fudge return.t for niecza
08:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/99445324df
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08:34 jnthn morning, #perl6
08:35 mberends morning, jnthn
08:35 colomon \o
08:36 mberends jnthn: which implementation of 6model do you suggest I overview for my NLPW talk?
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08:38 TimToady finish up the JVM one, and then talk about that :P
08:39 colomon TimToady! \o/
08:39 * TimToady really has no opinion...
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08:40 mberends o noes, that means inventing a goto in Java !
08:40 TimToady well, was supposed to be on an airplane right now, but somehow I swapped my passport with my mother-in-law's while we were on safari, and didn't notice till we got to the airport...
08:40 mberends TimToady: your is the best answer though ;-)
08:40 mberends *yours
08:41 TimToady they didn't think I was pretty enough to pass for her...
08:42 TimToady so we get a 20 hour extention to our stay here, and an award of -$1k or so for changing tickeets :(
08:42 colomon :(
08:43 jnthn mberends: The .Net one is probably easiest in that it's a ground-up implementation. It's missing a few bits, but it is cleaner since it doesn't have to interact with Parrot-y bits.
08:43 jnthn TimToady: Ouch. :(
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08:44 mberends jnthn: and which repo? the 6model one or one of the NQP's (I lost track of where you're working now).
08:47 jnthn 6model one is active repo for CLR and JVM implemenations. Only Parrot one is currently in nqp repo.
08:48 mberends ok thanks, that's a good starting point for me :)
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09:09 jnthn mberends: OK, great.
09:09 * jnthn should work on his NLPW talks very soon too :)
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09:14 moritz__ jnthn: fwiw I have built a separate checkout of the nqp/match-nom branch under a different user ID, so uninfluenced by any installed parrots/rakudos/nqps/*. I still get that weird, uninformative parse error. So I fear I can't really do anything productive on that branch :(
09:19 jnthn moritz__: OK, that's...confusing
09:19 * jnthn will try it on a different machine
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12:47 donri What other languages do you good folk find interesting, from a non-pragmatic perspective?
12:48 colomon Factor!
12:49 moritz_ donri: haskell and ook
12:49 donri lol
12:49 colomon ook?
12:50 donri Esoteric
12:50 flussence YES! I finally convinced $dayjob we actually need tests :D
12:50 colomon \o/
12:50 moritz_ \o/
12:50 flussence (and all it took was years of breakages...)
12:51 donri "I don't always write tests, but when I do, I write them first."
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13:29 ggoebel is there something equivalent to blizkost for niecza? I.e. a way to access perl5 modules?
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13:38 [Coke] tadzik++
13:38 tadzik [Coke]: what do I get my karma from?
13:39 [Coke] std: say "ok 00:01 {150.rand.Int}m" # my favourite joke
13:39 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
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13:40 tadzik heh
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13:40 moritz_ patches to make that just 'parse OK' or so are welcome
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13:53 woosley rakudo: for <a b c> { say }
13:53 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«␤␤␤»
13:53 moritz_ std: for <a b c> { say }
13:53 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/xgqdmDFctS line 1:␤------> [32mfor <a b c> { say[33m⏏[31m }[0m␤ok 00:01 119m␤»
13:54 moritz_ that's what rakudo should say too
13:55 woosley rakudo: for <a b c> {.say}
13:55 donri Make it so, number one.
13:55 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
13:55 moritz_ patches welcome :-)
13:55 moritz_ should be mostly copy&pasting from STD
13:55 donri rakudo: for <a b c> *.say
13:56 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ""␤»
13:56 donri Why doesn't this work
13:56 moritz_ didn't we discuss this before?
13:56 moritz_ 'for' is syntactic, and needs a block.
13:56 donri yes but this is syntax
13:56 donri why a block and not simply a code though?
13:56 donri rakudo: for <a b c> &say
13:56 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ""␤»
13:57 moritz_ donri: because it breaks the "no two terms in a row" rule
13:58 moritz_ and such breaks can only be tolerated for a very limited syntax
13:58 donri why is it not a function then
13:58 donri for <a b c>: { ... }
13:58 donri because it's syntactic elsewhere?
13:58 donri .say for <a b c>
13:59 woosley perl6: my @a = <a b c>; say "@a"; my $a = "f"; say "$a";
13:59 p6eval niecza v3-23-g1237dcf: OUTPUT«a b c␤f␤»
13:59 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«@a␤f␤»
13:59 moritz_ donri: there's a function version, and it's called map
13:59 woosley std: my @a = <a b c>; say "@a";
13:59 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 122m␤»
14:00 moritz_ woosley: rakudo and pugs are correct here
14:00 colomon I assume that's a known niecza bug?
14:00 moritz_ (std just does syntax checking)
14:00 moritz_ colomon: not to me, but I guess sorear++ knows :-)
14:00 moritz_ (and if not, the spectests will tell him)
14:01 donri moritz_: true :)
14:01 woosley Why say "@a" is not working like perl5?
14:01 donri sorta wish map function semantics was inverted
14:01 donri map @a: {}  vs current  map {}, @a
14:02 jnthn woosley: use say "@a[]" for those
14:02 jnthn woosley: Too many accidental say "mail me at foo@bar.com OH NOES  interpolation!!!"
14:02 moritz_ woosley: to avoid unintiontial interpolation of things that are meant to be email addresses
14:02 woosley Oh, my bad^^
14:03 colomon donri: I know I prefer @a.map({}).  My impression is that is a fairly common thing among the zebras..
14:04 donri but that's method not function :)
14:05 colomon donri: that's my point precisely
14:05 donri also if the function was an export of the method the list should come first too right?
14:05 donri method map is export ...
14:05 donri map @instance, args...
14:05 moritz_ well, it's not
14:06 donri why not!
14:06 moritz_ just like join() has the separator first
14:06 moritz_ donri: to adher to common idioms when used a function
14:06 * jnthn wonders how much of that is Perl 5 history
14:06 donri idioms that fit less nicely in perl6 :(
14:06 moritz_ *all* functional languages have  map CODE LIST
14:06 donri i know
14:06 jnthn Ah, true.
14:07 donri pretend it means "map over" then
14:07 donri map-over @list, &code
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14:07 moritz_ and join @list, 'separator'
14:07 * moritz_ shudders
14:08 donri is that how it's now?
14:08 moritz_ donri: map, join and the likes can't be a simple 'is export' anyway
14:08 moritz_ no
14:08 donri because that looks better too
14:08 donri "join this @list with this 'separator'"
14:08 moritz_ because it doesn't just want an array, but a slurpy arrray in the signature
14:08 colomon moritz_: exactly
14:09 moritz_ and you can't have required positionals after variadic positionals
14:09 colomon rakudo: say ~map(* + 10, 2, 3, 15)
14:09 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«12 13 25␤»
14:09 moritz_ and when you have lazy lists, it just makes much more sense to treat the *first* argument special, in contrast to the last, which might not even exist
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14:10 moritz_ just think of map (1 ... *), *.sqrt
14:10 moritz_ it'll never get to the closure
14:11 pmurias ggoebel: not yet
14:11 woosley rakudo: class KKK{ has Bool $.att is rw}; my $class = KKK.new; $class.att = "string"
14:11 p6eval rakudo 74dcce:  ( no output )
14:11 woosley rakudo: class KKK{ has Bool $.att is rw}; my $class = KKK.new; $class.att = "string"; say $class.att;
14:11 p6eval rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«string␤»
14:11 moritz_ woosley: attributes aren't typed yet. ETA: maybe 3 months
14:14 jnthn Will happen with 6model merge as they're needed for natively typed attrs.
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14:15 * moritz_ looks forward to it
14:15 moritz_ and as always it will break quite some code
14:15 * moritz_ remembers all that code with my Array of Int @a; etc.
14:15 colomon but that's the best sort of breakage, as it gives us direction and focus and more power when it is fixed!
14:15 moritz_ aye
14:16 moritz_ anyway, I think I've learned my lesson from last time and don't put type constraints in that aren't enforced
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15:18 sorear good * #perl6
15:18 phenny sorear: 07:34Z <diakopter> tell sorear "tough to see".  NaCl has a lot of potential, especially if Adobe teams up with Google (like it seems might occur)
15:18 sorear moritz_: I did not know about the "@a" issue
15:19 moritz_ sorear: now you do :-)
15:19 * sorear wonders where the p6a mail went
15:20 moritz_ sorear: I have a patch at home that adds more passing files to spectesst... will you give me a commit bit, or should I pull request?
15:20 moritz_ (can't push right now, don't have access to that machine)
15:21 sorear oh! sorry, meant to do that after the release.
15:21 moritz_ sorear: btw rakudo stringifies parcels just like it stringifies arrays and lists; I guess changing that would make quite a few tests pass too
15:22 moritz_ perl6: say ~(1, 2, 3)
15:22 p6eval pugs, rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
15:22 p6eval ..niecza v3-23-g1237dcf: OUTPUT«Parcel()<instance>␤»
15:22 sorear just moritz, right?
15:22 moritz_ sorear: right
15:22 sorear done.
15:22 moritz_ thank you
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15:25 pmurias sorear: hi
15:26 dalek niecza: 8a2c6e7 | pmurias++ | / (2 files):
15:26 dalek niecza: [cl-backend] added support for hint_hack
15:26 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8a2c6e7ff9
15:26 PerlJam left #perl6
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15:28 sorear pmurias: hi
15:31 MayDaniel left #perl6
15:31 moritz_ perl6: say ~(1, 2, a => 1, b => 2, c => 3)
15:31 pmurias sorear: what does letscope do?
15:31 p6eval pugs, rakudo 74dcce: OUTPUT«1 2 a       1 b     2 c     3␤»
15:31 p6eval ..niecza v3-24-g8a2c6e7: OUTPUT«Parcel()<instance>␤»
15:32 takadonet morning all
15:33 moritz_ o/
15:35 tadzik o/
15:38 MayDaniel joined #perl6
15:38 dalek niecza: f05ff59 | sorear++ | docs/nam.pod:
15:38 dalek niecza: Document letscope
15:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f05ff59d85
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15:41 sorear pmurias: how's that?
15:42 pmurias the description seems clear
15:42 pmurias i don't like having flags in opcodes
15:45 pmurias sorear: or did you refer to something other then the commit?
15:50 pmurias is redefining infix:<=> allowed in Perl 6?
15:50 sorear I was referring to the commit, in reply to 09:31 < pmurias> sorear: what does letscope do?
15:50 sorear I'm pretty sure it is
15:50 sorear there should be a test for that in test.pl
15:51 PerlJam "allowed" and "Perl 6" are words that don't seem to belong in the same sentence
15:51 PerlJam unless it's something like "You're allowed to do almost anything in Perl 6"
15:51 * sorear out
15:51 moritz_ PerlJam: am I allowed to use Perl 6 at work?
15:51 PerlJam moritz_: yes!
15:55 pmurias moritz_: are you forbidden from using Perl 6 at work?
15:56 moritz_ that was more rhetorical :-)
15:56 stifynsemons joined #perl6
15:57 moritz_ pmurias: not at all, they only care if I publish papers in the end -- but currently no Perl 6 implementation is suited for what I do (symbolic calculations, number crunching, generating pretty plots)
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16:06 pmurias moritz_: what do you use currently?
16:06 moritz_ pmurias: Mathematica, C, matlab, gnuplot, ...
16:06 PerlJam s/matlab/PDL/ and you get some of what I do too
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16:19 donri yay lua is faster than PASM ;)
16:19 TimToady quick, rewrite p6 in lua
16:20 moritz_ or rewrite lua in p6, to make it slower :-)
16:20 donri there's lua on parrot :)
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16:21 donri just testing startup time for hello world in different languages
16:21 donri lua: 4ms, pir/pasm: 12ms, python: 27ms, rakudo: 490ms :D
16:22 moritz_ concluding that "lua is faster" without further qualification seems oh so wrong
16:22 sbp rakudo just adds a pause for emphasis
16:22 donri moritz_: not really being serious here
16:22 moritz_ donri: good
16:23 donri perl5: 6ms
16:23 donri take that python ;)
16:24 moritz_ p5 is amazingly fast for a non-jitted scripting language
16:24 moritz_ it pays dearly for it... you'll see what I mean when you try to fix a bug in the regex engine :-)
16:24 moritz_ or in the lexer
16:25 donri does it even do vm/bytecode?
16:25 PerlJam donri: what's the startup time of the empty program?
16:26 moritz_ donri: it compiles to an optree that's executed in memory
16:26 PerlJam donri: also, check out the memory footprint of each of those programs too
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16:29 plobsing parrot starts up slow. this is a known issue. but there are many priorities above it. such as parrot runs slow, parrot is memory hungry, etc.
16:32 * plobsing sometimes wonders how hard it would be to flatten perl 5's op trees to threaded code. they already flatten it to a linked list, so it could work.
16:33 plobsing probably very hard though
16:33 moritz_ rurban was working on JIT-compiling the optree, last I talked to him
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17:23 colomon #phasers in 97 minutes?
17:24 tadzik alredy? /o\
17:24 tadzik if everything goes right, I'll be late :)
17:24 mtk left #perl6
17:26 * mberends -> amsterdam.pm o/
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17:31 sjohnson after reading the camel book for a while
17:31 sjohnson im kind of curious if p6 is going to be as integrated with a system as p5 is..
17:32 sjohnson by that i mean, all the pipe stuff, syswrite stuff, and a lot of the "Special Names" from the camel look that seem pretty advanced
17:33 mtk joined #perl6
17:35 moritz_ sjohnson: I guess it will be available, but via an ordinary API, not special syntax
17:38 dalek niecza: 77a9821 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
17:38 dalek niecza: more passing test files
17:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/77a98214c7
17:39 Hien joined #perl6
17:39 Hien perl6: say 3;
17:39 p6eval pugs, rakudo 74dcce, niecza v3-25-gf05ff59: OUTPUT«3␤»
17:40 Hien perl6: say 'Hello';
17:40 p6eval pugs, rakudo 74dcce, niecza v3-25-gf05ff59: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
17:40 moritz_ hello Hien
17:40 Hien @moritz_ hello
17:41 sjohnson moritz_: more so just wondering if the design goal is to be just as powerful systemwise for some easy-to-write highlevel tasks
17:41 sjohnson some tasks are making me realize that p5 is pretty refined and comprehensive
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17:46 masak \o/, zebras
17:46 jnthn masak! \o/
17:46 masak \o/!
17:47 * jnthn wonders how to factorial a o/
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17:48 moritz_ well, by [*] 1..\o/
17:48 masak duh :)
17:48 jnthn :P
17:49 moritz_ #phasers in 71
17:49 * jnthn will be about for it.
17:49 [particle] sjohnson: perl6:perl5::physics:biology - lots of rules and relationships, less to memorize
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18:01 dwhipp Looking at Numeric.pm I see a whole bunch of methods implemented as method foo() { note "foo needed"; fail "foo needed" }
18:02 dwhipp I'm wondering if { fail :verbose, "..." } would be the right way to prevent this duplication
18:03 moritz_ dwhipp: rakudo sometimes silently eats fail() messages (and at the same time aborts execution of a statement)
18:03 bluescreen10 left #perl6
18:03 moritz_ dwhipp: so it's more of a rakudo problem than a general problem with fail
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18:04 dwhipp I'd been thinking that implementing such an option would be a good way to learn PIR ... seems probably not needed
18:06 coela left #perl6
18:07 masak there are lots of other good reasons to learn PIR, most of them sitting in RT ;)
18:08 moritz_ btw dwhipp++ for the series patch
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18:10 dwhipp Thanks -- I'll have to go trawling.
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18:23 masak dwhipp: it's a good idea to run whatever you find with the people here on #perl6. sometimes the status of tickets is partly encoded in people's heads.
18:24 masak for example, there's a large number of open tickets that will miraculously be fixed when nom merges.
18:24 dsp_ joined #perl6
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18:26 moritz_ where nom = new object model
18:30 masak specifically, its representative branch in the rakudo repo.
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19:00 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
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19:17 moritz_ good afternoon pmichaud. #phasers is in progress
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19:50 pyrimidine takadonet++ #bioperl6 work
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19:57 takadonet pyrimidine: thanks :)
19:57 takadonet cannot wait to get translate working completely!
19:58 nymacro left #perl6
20:02 pyrimidine takadonet: I think moritz_ or masak had a a nice perl6 post a year or so ago on translation
20:03 * masak
20:03 masak it was just a one-liner.
20:03 takadonet pyrimidine: i remember something was posted on this channel a long time ago
20:03 takadonet ya
20:04 takadonet I was more thinking in the lines of unambiguous bp changes
20:04 takadonet i.e M.K,S etc
20:04 pyrimidine Bio::Tools::CodonTable had much of this stuff
20:05 pyrimidine which I see you're working on
20:06 takadonet most of still stub methods
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20:11 masak http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/​the-genetic-code-oneliner-in-perl-6
20:11 zby_home left #perl6
20:11 pyrimidine masak: yep, still seems to work :)
20:12 masak yay
20:13 takadonet probably going to steal that....
20:13 takadonet already have a working version but it's the p5 way :P
20:13 pyrimidine That could very easily be applied for other codon tables
20:13 masak please don't put the one-liner as-is in production code :P
20:13 kaare__ is now known as kaare_
20:14 pyrimidine oh, come on
20:14 pyrimidine :)
20:14 masak when one optimizes for readability, it's slightly longer.
20:14 takadonet we will see
20:14 takadonet :)
20:14 pyrimidine masak: very true.  though it's fairly readable now, if you know how to read it.
20:14 takadonet ya
20:15 masak I disagree :)
20:15 pyrimidine What would you improve on?
20:15 masak I think I'd do the long string as a hash table, laying it out so that the codons stood out.
20:15 masak I'd definitely have things as several shorter statements, instead of one long.
20:16 pyrimidine ok
20:16 masak descriptive variable names.
20:16 masak stuff like that.
20:16 takadonet well atm I'm still in getting it to work stage
20:17 takadonet Once everything is ported over and all the tests are passing. Then it's time to improve it
20:18 * pyrimidine nods
20:19 takadonet Since we have no real users, we can do whatever we want, when we want
20:24 masak I think I'd write the hash table as "AAA" => "K" etc for extra clarity.
20:24 masak one can lay it out in rows and columns so as to group things in the usual way.
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20:51 * TimToady tries once more to get home...  &
20:51 jnthn TimToady: Good luck.
20:52 * moritz_ wishes TimToady a successful and pleasant journey
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21:54 tyatpi_ Hello Room.  I want to install Perl 6, but rakudo.org seems to be down.  Or is it just me?
21:55 PerlJam gack!
21:55 PerlJam it's down for me as well
21:55 Rotwang tyatpi_: you can get sources from github
21:55 plobsing It's not just you! http://rakudo.org looks down from downforeveryoneorjustme.com.
21:56 PerlJam tyatpi_: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo
21:58 tyatpi_ plobsing, That is site is so helpful
22:03 masak tyatpi_: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/downloads
22:06 rbuels is now known as troll
22:06 troll is now known as rbuels
22:08 masak rbuels: glad it was just a passing phase ;)
22:08 am0c joined #perl6
22:08 rbuels masak: i was telegraphing my intentions in #bioinformatics ... like a cobra spreading its hood
22:09 masak I guessed it was something like that.
22:13 mkramer joined #perl6
22:21 masak 'night, #perl6
22:21 masak left #perl6
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22:25 guest___ joined #perl6
22:26 guest___ hello, is the Rakudo site down for maintenance?
22:27 tadzik not neceserilly for maintenance, but yes, down
22:27 tadzik what do you need?
22:27 guest___ just wanted to check out if the new monthly was out
22:27 guest___ was down last night and down now
22:28 GinoMan left #perl6
22:28 guest___ so...will it be back up or is there a status somewhere obvious that I missed?
22:29 tadzik well, it feels a bit unstable these days
22:29 tadzik you can follow the releases at github
22:29 guest___ the website or the implementation itself?
22:30 jdhore The next monthly Rakudo release is not until March 17th
22:31 guest___ are monthlies no longer happening?
22:31 colomon guest___: the release was last week
22:31 colomon this month's, I mean.
22:31 tadzik guest___: Stars are no longer monthly, if that's what you mean
22:32 guest___ yeah, just kind of not good when you go to rakudo.org and there is nothing there. doesn't instill a bunch of confidence.
22:32 jdhore sites go down
22:32 jdhore It's the internet
22:32 jdhore It happens
22:32 guest___ yeah i know. i am in the monitoring business.
22:33 sjohnson perl 6 has been canceled!
22:33 guest___ so...just grin and bear with it being part of the Perl ecosystem?
22:35 sjohnson i wouldn't be worried about it
22:35 sbp guest___: http://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/downloads
22:36 guest___ yup. thanks.
22:36 sbp yw
22:37 guest___ is the Feb. version running on parrot 3.1?
22:39 sbp ./build/PARROT_REVISION:RELEASE_3_1_0 3.1.0
22:39 colomon which is to say, yes.
22:40 guest___ thank you
22:40 sbp dim problem
22:41 sbp (it is still St. David's Day here for a bit, after all)
22:43 * colomon had a St. David's Day party gig back in 2007, at which we inexplicably played Irish, Quebecois, and Newfoundland music.
22:45 guest___ I'm sorry to hear that. That could bring all kinds of "things" out of the woodwork.
22:45 sbp yeah, I can only stand so much Stereophonics too
22:47 pigdude left #perl6
22:47 sjohnson st david's day eh... *rubs chin*
22:47 hanekomu_ left #perl6
22:49 mkramer left #perl6
22:50 guest___ Just read Moritz's post on the 14th.  Is more focus shifting to the Niecza implementation?
22:51 kaare_ left #perl6
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22:51 ab5tract left #perl6
22:51 colomon guest___: Depends on what you mean by "more", I guess.
22:51 colomon There's lots of active development on both Niecza and Rakudo's nom branch.
22:51 colomon and some development on Rakudo's main branch, of course.
22:52 guest___ as someone who has limited time but wants and would like to see Perl 6 commonly in production...what the recommendation?
22:52 guest___ i'm just a sheeple...
22:52 guest___ but don't see too many vocal shephards
22:53 colomon Right now today, your best bet might be to work on a module.  :)
22:53 colomon Get something useful done in a sandbox of your own, and hopefully it will work on both implementations in the not-so-long run.
22:54 guest___ is the idea that we'll have multiple "common" implementations then?
22:54 colomon the idea is that Perl 6 will have no official implementation.
22:54 colomon And even compiler which can pass most of the spectest is officially a Perl 6.
22:54 colomon *every
22:55 [Coke] pmichaud++
22:57 guest___ great. who's working on the compiler for my System/38?
22:57 shi left #perl6
22:58 mberends joined #perl6
22:58 guest___ sorry I mean AS/400
22:58 guest___ i mean i Series
22:58 guest___ no, Series I
22:59 guest___ you kids and your dang language platforms. I can't even keep up with my IBM platforms.  I mean any compiler IBM Power platform?
23:00 guest___ I was hoping we could move off of PHP that we're using.
23:00 plobsing left #perl6
23:01 flussence you don't need Perl 6 for that. Even 5 is a million times improvement.
23:01 frettled guest___: If I'd been mst, I would've said "well volunteered".  :D
23:01 frettled (for working on the compiler for your IBM systems)
23:02 guest___ I'd rather not move back to RPG
23:02 frettled Richard P. Grant?
23:04 ymasory_ joined #perl6
23:04 guest___ is there an implementation on the JVM?
23:05 frettled Someone here is actually working on that.
23:05 frettled I don't recall the status of it, ISTR that they have to work around the lack of a "goto".
23:06 guest___ interesting
23:06 jnthn mberends++ is working on a port of 6model and NQP
23:07 jnthn It's based upon the CLR port.
23:07 guest___ any links?
23:07 jnthn The aim is that once they are ported, Rakudo will be relatively easily ported.
23:07 jnthn guest___: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/tree/master/java
23:08 Rotwang left #perl6
23:08 guest___ thank you
23:09 guest___ C# lambda expressions (using => notation) become Java anonymous classes. This is a lot of workaround writing because the anonymous classes require an interface definition to implement, otherwise they inherit from Object.
23:09 guest___ ughhh
23:10 jnthn It doesn't pass anything close to as many tests as the CLR version. Though I'm hacking with mberends this weekend so maybe we get some more progress. :)
23:10 jnthn Yes, "fun"... :)
23:10 guest___ haha. well sounds like a great project.
23:11 jnthn :)
23:12 frettled There are lots of great little projectlets in the Perl 6 ecosystem.
23:12 sjohnson thats cute
23:12 guest___ C# sealed class becomes Java final class.  Effect is not quite the same.
23:12 * jnthn doesn't remember Java enough to know what the difference is :)
23:13 guest___ aren't you being a bit conservative with the use of "projectlets" for the scope?  :)
23:13 plobsing joined #perl6
23:14 sjohnson projectlets is a cute word
23:15 guest___ anyway, good stuff going. Sorry to disturb too much.  Just initially wanted to stop by and see what was up with the Rakudo site.  For newbies just exploring from the Perl 6 site it doesn't give off a warm vibe.  Thanks for your responses.
23:16 jnthn guest___: Yes, it's not ideal. :(
23:16 * jnthn hopes it'll stabalize somewhat soon.
23:16 guest___ but I do like your new Perl 6 velociraptor logo.  That'll teach 'em.....something.....I guess.
23:16 guest___ ciao!
23:18 guest___ left #perl6
23:20 sjohnson rakudo site works for me
23:20 plobsing left #perl6
23:20 sjohnson *shrug*
23:20 slent_h joined #perl6
23:20 jnthn sleep &
23:21 [Coke] yes, I just pinged Andy.
23:22 alester eet ees fix
23:22 [Coke] alester++ # this psuedo reminds me of abester, from b5.
23:30 donri is it madness to consider inventing a toy language to implement on parrot
23:34 [Coke] nope.
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23:56 diakopter there's more than one way not to do it
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