Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-03-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:51 sorear good * #perl6
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00:56 colomon \o
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01:01 sorear ruoso: hi!
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01:21 sorear colomon: hi
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01:25 colomon sorear: I've just managed to update a bunch of stuff on my MBP, wonder if I'll be able to get an up-to-date Mono as well?  :)
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06:29 * Tene prods jnthn
06:30 sorear colomon: I'm running an up-to-date Mono on a MBP which is between 5 and 10 years old (it's hard to accurately date frankenputers...)
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07:02 moritz_ good morning
07:02 moritz_ sorear++ # nicza v3
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09:13 moritz_ niecza: sub f($x) { say $x}; f :x<foo>
09:13 p6eval niecza v3-28-ge477540: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value for parameter $x in MAIN f␤  at /tmp/k2on_rHLrm line 0 (MAIN f @ 0)␤  at /tmp/k2on_rHLrm line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line 1185 (SAFE C489_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/SAFE.setting line
09:13 p6eval ..1186 (SAFE modul…
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09:35 donri Can you use HLLCompiler via Rakudo?
09:35 donri rather than nqp
09:35 dalek roast: 324876d | moritz++ | S (7 files):
09:35 dalek roast: fudge and simplify some test files for Niecza
09:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/324876d4ba
09:35 dalek niecza: 8b59a93 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
09:35 dalek niecza: 7 more passing spectest files
09:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8b59a93820
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09:56 cpk sorear: hi ! i have downloaded th v3 of niecza buit the executable fails when i try to run it
09:57 cpk sorear: my system is win7 x64 with .net 4 extended installed
09:57 moritz_ cpk: it's likely that I can't help you, but you should state at least *how* it fails
09:58 cpk the error message is Unhandled exception: System.BadImageFormatException: Could not load file or assembly 'Kernel, Version = 0.0.0.0, Culture = neutral, PublicKeyToken = null' or one of its dependencies. This asse mblys was built by a runtime newer than the currently loaded runtime and can not be loaded. Filename: 'Kernel, Version = 0.0.0.0, Culture = neutral, PublicKeyToken = null'     to MAIN.Main (String [])
09:58 dalek roast: c95cb9a | moritz++ | S (4 files):
09:58 dalek roast: more fudgign for niecza
09:58 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c95cb9af61
09:59 dalek niecza: 8f168dd | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
09:59 dalek niecza: three more passing test files
09:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8f168dd98c
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10:00 cpk moritz_: i think it is related to my version of .net but i'm not really sure
10:00 moritz_ cpk: same here. I also had to install a newer version of mono to get niecza running again
10:01 cpk moritz_: what about windows .net ?
10:01 cpk moritz_: do you think there is a newer version ?
10:01 moritz_ http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2011-02-28#i_3342984
10:02 moritz_ I'd expect .net 4 to implement the NET_4_0 profile, but since I don't use it, that's just speculation
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10:06 cpk moritz_: i have .net 4.0 full and client installed ( version info => C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319 )
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10:10 cpk moritz_: i just wanted to get a try with niecza, so this issue is not very important for me but I thought I could share it there
10:10 moritz_ cpk: I'm sure sorear will appreciate it (I do, but I can't help you :/)
10:11 moritz_ it's just not his usual uptime at the moment (different timezone)
10:11 dalek rakudo: e0bfb29 | moritz++ | / (4 files):
10:11 dalek rakudo: [build] git_describe is enough, no need for a separate version specification.
10:11 dalek rakudo:
10:11 dalek rakudo: Also made some error messages nicer
10:11 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e0bfb29b41
10:11 dalek rakudo: 4138622 | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
10:11 dalek rakudo: explicitly chose generational GC
10:11 dalek rakudo:
10:11 dalek rakudo: Parrot folks say that it will probably not be the default for the next
10:11 dalek rakudo: release, so there is no harm in selecting it explicitly.
10:11 dalek rakudo: tadzik++ for the idea
10:11 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4138622c83
10:11 moritz_ cpk: meanwhile you can try niecza via the bots here:
10:11 moritz_ niecza: say 'abc'.uc x 2
10:11 p6eval niecza v3-28-ge477540: OUTPUT«ABCABC␤»
10:12 cpk moritz_: awesome !
10:14 cpk moritz_: but it will be a mess if I make lots of tests here
10:15 cpk moritz_: thx for your answers, bye
10:15 moritz_ cpk: you can /msg the bot too
10:15 moritz_ cpk: have the appropriate amount of fun :-)
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10:33 dalek tpfwiki: (Bill Klobas)++ | http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/​index.cgi?first_post_in_test_weblog
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10:40 moritz_ seems that the tpf wiki is being spammed increasingly (I haven't checked if this particular change was spam, but some certainly were)
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11:10 flussence_ if there's an easy way to undo spam on the wiki without clogging up the revision history further, I wouldn't mind doing it
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11:29 daxim revert to a revision does not increase the revision counter, is that what you mean?
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11:49 flussence_ yeah, just so the log isn't full of (spam, undo) xx 1000
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12:22 colomon wow, my p6 code to generate graphs for the benchmarks is excruciatingly slow when fed all 120 timings.  :(
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12:37 moritz_ colomon: you can do a meta-benchmark: benchmarking how long the benchmark graphing takes :-)
12:37 colomon huh.  the graph script is apparently still running, but it doesn't seem to have written out any new SVG graphs in the last 27 minutes.  So it got six done in the first minute, and now it's just sitting there.  :\
12:40 moritz_ disk full? RAM full?
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12:40 colomon for sure not disk full.
12:41 colomon and the machine seems to be working well enough otherwise, so I doubt RAM full.
12:41 colomon I've just added some "say"s and restarted
12:42 colomon looks like it's hanging in SVG::Plot...
12:42 colomon and woof, using up 97% of my CPU
12:43 moritz_ colomon: if you push all that data + code into a repo, I can investigate tonight (ie in about 6 hours)
12:44 colomon https://github.com/colomon/Benchmark-Plot
12:45 colomon that's without my debugging "say"s.  results.txt is the full benchmark results file to be fed to bin/graph-bench.pl
12:48 moritz_ so $ perl6 bin/graph-bench.pl < results.txt ?
12:48 colomon that's exactly it
12:49 colomon or even just $ perl6 bin/graph-bench.pl results.txt
12:49 moritz_ it seems to leak memory at an astonishingly low pace :-)
12:49 moritz_ maybe it doesn't even leak, but simply uses it
12:53 colomon what's @ARGV in p6?
12:53 moritz_ @*ARGS
12:53 colomon figured it out myself on the third try.  :)  moritz_++
12:53 moritz_ but before you use it, ask yourself if MAIN isn't better suited
12:53 colomon it's a three-line script, I think it will do.
12:54 colomon (and the third line is just a closing brace)
12:54 moritz_ :-)
12:54 colomon ah, frak, I hosed inkscape during the great macports upgrade yesterday.
12:56 moritz_ I just did a  say @data.perl before the call to .plot
12:56 moritz_ there's no visible difference in the data, compared to the previous calls
12:56 moritz_ 8 pairs, with the same keys as before
12:57 colomon moritz_++ # I just assumed that was so, looking at the results.txt file.
12:58 colomon duh.  I should try grepping just that data and see if it still fails.
12:58 colomon (now running.....)
12:58 colomon still running...
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13:00 takadonet morning all
13:00 colomon \o
13:00 colomon still running...
13:01 moritz_ I'm almost certain that we'll discover a rakudobug in the process :/
13:01 colomon oooo, that's good!  :)
13:02 colomon yeah, it's that one specific set of data that's doing it.
13:02 * colomon considers that odds are pretty good it's his own rakudobug.  :|
13:02 moritz_ the code in which it hangs contains for-loops, gather/take and fun... but not while-loops or other things that would usually hang
13:03 moritz_ oh wait, I've missed two method calls
13:06 colomon afk # might as well go feed A's cats and take a walk while inkscape is re-installing.
13:13 moritz_ colomon: found the error...
13:13 moritz_ colomon: SVG::Plot uses min and max, and then calculates max - min
13:13 moritz_ colomon: and assumes that the result is >= 0
13:13 moritz_ colomon: which it is, but not if the pass in "105" instead of 105
13:14 moritz_ so it uses lexicographic ordering
13:14 moritz_ and produces a negative difference
13:14 moritz_ the step width for the y axis is then calculated as $difference.log10.floor => NaN
13:16 moritz_ now we can discuss if it's a bug to pass in numbers as strings, or if SVG::Plot should be more paranoid
13:19 JimmyZ So CPU is so stupid
13:19 moritz_ hm?
13:20 moritz_ colomon: :values([@data>>.value>>.Rat])  fixes things
13:22 colomon what about :values([@data>>.value>>.Numeric])   ?
13:22 moritz_ should work too
13:22 colomon (cat-feeding temp. delayed due to a dirty diaper.)
13:22 moritz_ though SVG::Plot often works better with Rats
13:23 moritz_ in particular if you feed it Nums, it sometimes anchors the y scale at 1.2e-107 instead of 0, or so :-)
13:23 colomon if it's a decimal number, it should be a Rat anyway.  :)
13:23 colomon rakudo: say "74.2868108".Numeric.WHAT
13:23 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
13:24 colomon doh!
13:24 moritz_ still the old bug
13:24 colomon sigh.
13:24 moritz_ (which was marked in RT as "LHF", btw :-)
13:24 colomon okay, .Rat it is.
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13:30 colomon still reinstalling inkscape...
13:30 moritz_ with this change, the script completes
13:30 * colomon wishes wordpress would let him directly upload SVG files
13:31 colomon moritz_++
13:34 moritz_ ... in less than 2 minutes. Not fast, but not crawling either
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14:02 moritz_ rakudo: say pir::null()
14:02 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected '\n'␤ in file 'EVAL_11' line 50532630␤===SORRY!===␤syntax error ... somewhere␤»
14:02 moritz_ rakudo: say pir::null__p()
14:02 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/I_jhBd9h9G␤»
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14:06 masak greetings, zebras
14:06 phenny masak: 03 Mar 22:41Z <colomon> tell masak My timings runs using your data-generation script are showing very significant differences from one test run to another.  For 80, for instance, I've gotten average (N, Y) runs of (10.8, 14.2), (9.4, 10.8), and (9.6, 11.4).  Maybe difference has to do with different random strings?
14:06 masak maybe.
14:07 masak statistics is no simple matter.
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14:07 masak let's let this simmer until it looks consistent/satisfactory.
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14:07 cono karma cono
14:07 aloha cono has karma of 0.
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14:08 masak drive-by karma?
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14:10 moritz_ isn't it obvious? run the benchmark 100 times, and then plot mean and standard deviation :-)
14:10 * moritz_ should really add error bars to SVG::Plot
14:11 masak yes, I think I should do something very much like that.
14:12 masak I think I'll need to do a blog post, though, to allay the worries of my (nonexistent) reader base.
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14:12 moritz_ nonexistent? that would be a real surprise
14:12 masak moritz_: I could probably do a quick hack on SVG::Plot to add error bars.
14:13 moritz_ ... or use whatever you used to generate the last plot with error bars :-)
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14:23 tadzik howdy
14:24 masak tadzik: \o
14:24 masak moritz_: I... I need to remind myself what that was :)
14:25 tadzik the weather question? You looked confused :)
14:25 tadzik oh nvm :)
14:27 moritz_ masak: I just pushed a hacky, untested and undocumented support for error bars in SVG::Plot
14:27 masak \o/
14:27 masak the program was Gnumeric, btw. I just checked.
14:27 moritz_ if it actually works, you can really impressed :-)
14:33 masak :)
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15:26 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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15:34 sorear good * #perl6
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15:35 moritz_ hello sorear
15:35 masak sorear: \o
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15:37 sorear hrm, cpk is already out.
15:38 moritz_ is there a solution, besides upgrading .NET? or would you expect it to work with 4.0?
15:40 * masak --> airport
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16:00 sorear moritz_: I think the solution is to use Mono 2.6.7 to prepare the releases, rather than a Feb11 master build
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16:04 * jnthn -> airport
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16:28 donri can't seem to find a list of rules included with pge
16:28 donri e.g. what is <ww>
16:29 plobsing wrong window?
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16:32 moritz_ "within word"
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16:34 moritz_ a zero-width assertion that's true if left and right character are both word characters
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16:42 donri moritz_: is there a list?
16:42 moritz_ donri: in the source :-)
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16:42 moritz_ donri: S05 has a list, but it's probably not identical to what PGE/NQP-rx implement
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16:50 pmurias sorear: hillu_
16:50 pmurias sorear: hi
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16:51 sorear pmurias: Hi
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16:53 pmurias sorear: re problem with the pseudo-inliner is that the SAFE module name is only used with -CSAFE
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16:54 pmurias sorear: is there a way we can avoid the hardcoding of the unit name in the inliner?
16:55 sorear Why are you renaming it?
16:55 sorear The reliance on having a module named SAFE goes *much* deeper than just the inliner
16:56 pmurias i'm not renaming it
16:56 sorear For instance, the only class that is allowed to have no parents is SAFE::Mu
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16:56 pmurias just running it with mono Niecza.exe -Bclisp SAFE.setting
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16:57 pmurias the xrefs get a MAIN unit in that case
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16:58 pmurias sorear: and what happens when the user defines a SAFE module?
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17:01 moritz_ pmurias: then you can tell him "all-uppercase names are reserved for internal use, smartass"
17:02 moritz_ ok, you can leave out that last word :-)
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17:05 pmurias moritz_: hardcoding stuff based on names seems very inelegant to me
17:06 moritz_ it is, but that's a different matter
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17:08 pmurias not fully
17:08 pmurias reserving stuff for internal use is part of the inelegantness
17:08 pmurias if the user wanted to have an alternative setting it would conflict with all the name based harcoding
17:14 sorear it's easy to have an alternative setting
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17:14 sorear you don't get to make it the root setting - it has to be based on SAFE
17:14 sorear but I don't see how this is fundamentally worse than the fact that you can't have user-defined classes with no parents
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17:14 sorear (I just figured out a better way to handle --safe that doesn't leak over quite so much of the core; SAFE.setting will probably not exist tomorrow)
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17:16 sorear moritz_: btw - https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=677057
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17:18 sorear pmurias: what are you trying to accomplish by using mono Niecza.exe -Bclisp SAFE.setting?
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17:20 sorear niecza has two basic modes of operation when parsing code from a file - either it's compiling a complete program, or it's precompiling a module
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17:21 sorear -C is needed to select the second mode, because there doesn't seem to be a good way to autodetect it
17:21 sorear main programs are allowed to start with class Foo;
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17:22 sorear (theoretically, niecza could look at the end, see {YOU_ARE_HERE}, and know it's dealing with a module.  But 1. this doesn't work for arbitrary modules and 2. it violates the prohibition against N>1-pass parsing)
17:23 moritz_ sorear: sometimes when I run niecza I get the "[precompiling setting]" message... couldn't that be done as part of the build process?
17:23 moritz_ I kinda feel that would be "righter"
17:23 sorear moritz_: it's done once as part of the build process, but it has to be redone if niecza thinks the setting has changed
17:24 sorear the current check for "changed" is "different full path or different modification time"
17:24 pmurias sorear: i'm trying to make sure SAFE runs and then i'll work on making other code run it
17:25 pmurias sorear: we could expose the way to make a parent-less class
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17:37 sorear I guess it would be better to make the psuedo-inliner, etc use a cheat more like Rakudo's SETTING_MODE
17:38 sorear except because niecza allows non-root settings, it would be more of a ROOT_MODE thing
17:39 pmurias what does the SETTING_MODE do?
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17:53 flussence rakudo: say ('abc' ~~ /(a)(b)/).perl
17:53 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "abc",␤ to   => 2,␤ positional => [␤   Match.new(␤    from => 0,␤    orig => "abc",␤    to   => 1,␤   ),␤   Match.new(␤    from => 1,␤    orig => "abc",␤    to   => 2,␤   ),␤  ],␤)␤»
17:53 flussence rakudo: say ('abc' ~~ /(a)(b)/)[0].perl
17:53 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "abc",␤ to   => 1,␤)␤»
17:56 moritz_ rakudo: say ('abc' ~~ /(a)(b)/).pretty
17:56 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«=> <ab>␤ 0 => <a>␤ 1 => <b>␤␤»
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17:57 moritz_ not so pretty with \n -> ␤ translation on, but IMHO better than .perl
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17:59 flussence that's the *second* time I've forgot about that in a week!
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18:07 * TimToady is home finally, but disk drive on the laptop went haywire again, so talking from an ancient suse partition that came on the laptop originally...bleah...
18:07 phenny TimToady: 02 Mar 16:57Z <sorear> tell TimToady pmurias and I disagree on what sub infix:<=>($,$a) { say $a }; constant foo = 5; # should do
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18:08 sorear welcome home TimToady
18:08 TimToady without looking at the discussion, I'll say that assignment to a declarator is only pseudo-assignment; the declarator is allowed to turn it into any operation it likes
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18:13 TimToady note for instance that assignment to a 'has' doesn't even have a valid invocant when "executed"
18:14 TimToady so I doubt assignment to a constant looks at infix:<=> at all
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18:17 * colomon cannot believe that Inkscape is still installing on his MBP.  I saw full builds of Python 2.7 (I think) and GCC 4.4 scroll by already....
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18:19 PerlJam TimToady: that makes assignment sort of thunky when it's used in an initialization context.
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18:21 TimToady it makes the assignment pseudo :)
18:22 PerlJam the whole "= is assignment, except when it's not" idea makes me want some sort of marker to let me know that something special is going on.
18:22 TimToady yeah, except it also wants to be huffmanly short
18:23 PerlJam indeed
18:23 TimToady so I think it's a pain point we have to live with, until we get Unicode keyboards
18:23 sorear sometimes even when it is, it's not
18:23 flussence colomon: Inkscape uses Boost heavily, and from what I understand 9/10 of that is C++ templates that have to be recompiled for each downstream using it...
18:24 moritz_ Boost is known to cause horrible compile times
18:24 sorear ($foo) = (1, 2) and $foo = (1, 2) do different stuff for '='
18:24 colomon flussence: yup, boost went by there too....
18:24 moritz_ sorear: yes, but both are assignment
18:24 TimToady maybe real assignment is named infix:<← >
18:25 sorear TimToady has talked about = being a context-sensitive macro, but I haven't fully grokked how »=« works in that model
18:25 PerlJam TimToady: I now think you can read minds since I was thinking of something very similar   (ascii version <-)
18:26 TimToady and list assignment is infix:<↞>
18:26 TimToady or ⇇
18:27 TimToady but I shouldn't design when I'm jetlagged...
18:28 PerlJam S, S-plus, R, and I'm sure lots of other languages use <- for assignment
18:28 flussence intercal
18:28 sorear fortran?
18:28 TimToady well, Algol orginally
18:29 sorear given that = has so many different contextual meanings, I wonder if &infix:<=> is meaningful
18:29 sorear and =-derived metaoperators ([=], »=«, ...)
18:30 PerlJam sorear: it is when you want simple assignment  :)
18:34 TimToady and I shouldn't backlag when jetlogged either...
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19:04 Tene phenny: ask jnthn if he's had time to look at https://gist.github.com/838498 yet
19:04 phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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19:24 dalek niecza: 425db19 | sorear++ | src/ (6 files):
19:24 dalek niecza: Mergeback NieczaActions, parse "is unsafe"
19:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/425db19422
19:24 dalek niecza: 79b33ad | sorear++ | / (6 files):
19:24 dalek niecza: Disallow use of is unsafe subs in safe mode
19:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/79b33adc84
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20:39 dalek niecza: dafccd8 | sorear++ | / (9 files):
20:39 dalek niecza: Kill SAFE/CORE division; use is unsafe to implement safe mode
20:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dafccd82df
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20:45 TimToady sorear: re YOU_ARE_HERE detection, that's why I was using a .setting extension to prevent mixups between modules and settings
20:45 TimToady in fact, the .syml names were set up to make it impossible to use a setting's .syml as a module
21:02 plobsing left #perl6
21:32 dalek star: 18d84c8 | Util++ | README:
21:32 dalek star: Fix wiki URL in README
21:32 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/18d84c892a
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21:58 donri are the names of some PGE rules significant to PCT?
21:59 donri e.g. I don't see <ws> used much in grammars but it seems to have an effect anyway?
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22:06 moritz_ donri: read up on :sigspace and the difference between token and rule
22:06 moritz_ donri: it will answer your question
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22:07 donri ah thanks
22:07 donri is that a synops?
22:07 moritz_ it's in S05
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22:20 patrickas and we're back
22:20 phenny patrickas: 23 Feb 10:22Z <moritz_> tell patrickas about http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=71366 -- want to hack on MAIN again? :-)
22:21 moritz_ \o/
22:21 patrickas o/
22:21 patrickas moritz_: I actually had a patch for it somewhere, but I have been unable to test anythign with rakudo lately
22:22 patrickas I am having the same problem as JimmyZ : "Unicode rindex not implemented"
22:22 moritz_ patrickas: :( have you tried installing icu?
22:23 patrickas I did a quick trial but did not go very far...
22:23 patrickas oh oh oh btw congracts ...
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22:23 moritz_ thank you
22:24 patrickas I have been gone for a while!
22:24 moritz_ speaking of which, I need to change the small one's diaper... bbl
22:24 patrickas hehehe ... ah the joys of parenthood!
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22:30 * moritz_ back
22:30 patrickas wb
22:31 sorear hello patrickas
22:32 patrickas hello sorear! great progress with niecza!
22:32 moritz_ sorear: I think quite many spectests could be won if you implemented Parcel string- and numification
22:32 sorear moritz_: How should Parcel numify?
22:32 sorear rakudo: say +(12)
22:32 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«12␤»
22:33 sorear rakudo: say +(12,)
22:33 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«1␤»
22:33 sorear ah, +(.list)
22:33 moritz_ like that, yes :-)
22:33 * sorear still thinks (12,) and (12) should be equivalent
22:33 moritz_ and it stringifies like an array
22:34 sorear Rakudo: say ?()
22:34 sorear rakudo: say ?()
22:34 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
22:34 sorear rakudo: say ?(0)
22:34 sorear rakudo: say ?(0,)
22:34 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
22:34 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
22:35 moritz_ rakudo: say (12).WHAT
22:35 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
22:35 moritz_ I guess the answer is that rakudo just doesn't consider (12) to be a Parcel
22:35 moritz_ and it always num- and boolifies a Parcel like a List
22:35 moritz_ rakudo: say (0,).WHAT
22:35 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Parcel()␤»
22:36 moritz_ might be syntactic
22:36 sorear (12) isn't a Parcel; see S08:160
22:37 * moritz_ doesn't really trust S06
22:37 moritz_ erm, S08 I mean
22:38 sorear I don't either really :)
22:38 flussence that S08, always disguising itself as other specs so they get the blame!
22:38 sorear it just bugs me that a trailing comma is meaningless unless the list has exactly one item
22:39 sorear () always making a parcel would work too, but then handling 4*(2+3) would get confusing
22:39 moritz_ anyway, even if you don't get single-item edge case correct (whatever it is that's correct), you'd win lots of tests
22:40 moritz_ sorear: at some point single-item parcels were specced to behave exactly as their item
22:40 patrickas ok so i downloaded ICU ... how do I compile rakudo with ICU ?
22:41 moritz_ patrickas: when it is installed (including development files), reconfiguring parrot and then rebuilding rakudo should pick it up
22:42 dalek niecza: 32795f3 | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
22:42 dalek niecza: Add Parcel Bool, Str, Numeric
22:42 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/32795f339f
22:42 sorear (moritz++)
22:43 patrickas Thx I'll do that
22:44 patrickas moritz_: while waiting for new chapters of HP:MoR you can take a look at the Wastelands of Time (not quite the same league but almost as interesting)
22:44 patrickas I've read and enjoyed both without having read or seen any of the official Harry Potter stuff :-)
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22:45 moritz_ patrickas: I'm currently reading "The Wise Man's Fear" by Patrick Rothfuss (sequel to "The Name of the Wind"). Very good stuff too, if you like fantasy
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22:46 moritz_ oh, and I'm working on a website where you can collect semantic relations between books, e.g. that one book is a sequel of another
22:46 moritz_ (but in Perl 5 for now)
22:47 patrickas I could give it a try, but I read HPMor because of Eliezer's other non fiction writing, then I saw somewhere he mentioned the wastelands ... I was not really into that before :-)
22:49 moritz_ http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=891508 is there a nice Perl 6 solution for that?
22:49 moritz_ (swapping array items with even/odd indexes, so 1, 2, 3, 4 becomes 2, 1, 4, 3)
22:50 moritz_ oh, of course
22:50 moritz_ perl6: say (1..8).map(-> $a, $b { $b, $a }).perl
22:50 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«((2, 1), (4, 3), (6, 5), (8, 7))␤»
22:50 p6eval ..niecza v3-33-gdafccd8: OUTPUT«[2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 7]␤»
22:50 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«(\2, \1, \4, \3, \6, \5, \8, \7)␤»
22:51 moritz_ perl6: say (1..8).map({ $^b, $^a }).perl
22:51 patrickas rakudo: say (1..8).map({ $^b, $^a }).perl
22:51 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«((2, 1), (4, 3), (6, 5), (8, 7))␤»
22:51 p6eval ..niecza v3-33-gdafccd8: OUTPUT«[2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 7]␤»
22:51 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«(\2, \1, \4, \3, \6, \5, \8, \7)␤»
22:51 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«((2, 1), (4, 3), (6, 5), (8, 7))␤»
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22:54 patrickas sorear++ niecza has come quite far along
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22:55 moritz_ good night
22:56 patrickas 'night
22:57 sorear 'night
22:58 * sorear could use more ideas of Things To Do
22:59 flussence niecza: say 1; #`[...] say 2;
22:59 p6eval niecza v3-33-gdafccd8: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
22:59 flussence oh, I think rakudo had more problems with those...
23:00 flussence or at least the #= syntax...
23:00 sorear rakudo implements #= correctly according to an old spec
23:01 flussence ah
23:01 sorear iirc
23:01 flussence perl6: my $a; #= something
23:01 p6eval pugs:  ( no output )
23:01 p6eval ..niecza v3-33-gdafccd8: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Action method comment:sym<#=> not yet implemented at /tmp/hDCqor0W7Y line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mmy $a; #= something[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/SAFE.setting line 389 (SAFE
23:01 p6eval ..die @ 2)␤  at /h…
23:01 p6eval ..rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Whitespace character is not allowed as a delimiter at line 22, near " something"␤»
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23:01 sorear rakudo: my $a; #=[ something ]
23:01 p6eval rakudo 413862:  ( no output )
23:02 * sorear wonders how weak references should be exposed to perl6
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23:18 patrickas 'night all
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23:27 pmurias sorear: are weak references important in a language with proper garbadge collection?
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23:32 plobsing pmurias: yes. for example, a subscription-style event system works a lot more smoothly if the service holds weak references to the subscribers
23:33 plobsing which is why both .Net and JVM provide weak references despite being GCed
23:34 diakopter also, see "When to use Weak Reference"  at http://www.shafqatahmed.com/​2008/01/weakreference-b.html
23:34 diakopter (supports plobsing
23:35 diakopter 's point)
23:35 risou left #perl6
23:36 sorear hey, plobsing even guessed my use case
23:36 sorear specifically, niecza uses weak references so that subclass method caches can be invalidated when the superclass is augmented
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