Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-03-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:13 masak \o/
00:15 tadzik o/
00:15 masak tadzik: hi! :)
00:15 tadzik ohhai :)
00:16 masak so... what's up? :)
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00:17 jnthn o/ #perl6
00:17 phenny jnthn: 04 Mar 19:04Z <Tene> ask jnthn if he's had time to look at https://gist.github.com/838498 yet
00:17 masak jnthn: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=78234
00:17 jnthn :P
00:18 Tene hi jnthn
00:18 jnthn o/
00:19 sorear Hello jnthn
00:19 jnthn I'm...a boyut to sleep.
00:19 jnthn But I'm hackathoning Sun - Tue
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00:19 jnthn So will have time to look \o/
00:19 sorear That's all you do anymore :/
00:19 jnthn sorear: I know :/
00:19 jnthn $dayjob :/
00:19 Tene jnthn: what time zone are you on?
00:20 jnthn European
00:20 masak Central.
00:20 jnthn CET
00:20 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/34387
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00:23 * jnthn sleeps too...talks tomorrow
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01:14 lue hello world! o/
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01:15 colomon lue!  \o/
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01:18 lue .oO(It's funny. There's always a bunch of stuff I want to look up on my computer, but the second I sit down in front of my old laptop, I have trouble remembering :D)
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02:03 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:07 flussence is there a good way to write a test for a function that's supposed to warn() but not die()? lives_ok doesn't differentiate between them
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02:14 TimToady warn is supposed to be a control exception, but I doubt rakudo does it right yet
02:19 flussence pretty sure it doesn't...
02:20 flussence rakudo: try { warn; say 'ok'; CONTROL { say 'fail' } }
02:20 p6eval rakudo 413862:  ( no output )
02:20 flussence er.
02:20 flussence rakudo: try { warn; say 'ok'; CONTROL { say 'fail' }; CATCH { say 'double fail' } }
02:20 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«double fail␤»
02:21 flussence (though I think the right fix is for me to rewrite this code so it DWIM without spewing warnings...)
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02:57 * colomon is feeling defeated by inkscape.
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04:21 lue colomon: what's the problem?
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07:46 dalek niecza: ce33cb7 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
07:46 dalek niecza: Refactor away distinction between loc_ vtables and local methods
07:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ce33cb7ecf
07:46 * sorear out
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10:05 donri Is <:Letter> NYI?
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10:20 Teedev[1] Hi! I newbie in Perl6
10:21 Teedev[1] how to install perl6 module?
10:26 tadzik Teedev[1]: you can try neutro, if it works for you. I'm currently in the middle of rewriting/refactoring it, so I'm sorry for alle the breakages :)
10:26 tadzik or you can go the old way with ufo?
10:27 tadzik s/\?$//
10:35 Teedev[1] tadzik,neutro?
10:36 tadzik Teedev[1]: aye. https://github.com/tadzik/neutro
10:36 tadzik you can try either of the branches, there is a chance that one of them will work :) What do you want to install actually?
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10:57 dalek roast: 9040c15 | moritz++ | S0 (3 files):
10:57 dalek roast: unfudge Parcel related tests for niecza
10:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9040c1594d
10:58 Teedev[1] tadzik,  Unable to find module 'File::Mkdir' in the @*INC directories.
10:58 Teedev[1] (@*INC contains:
10:58 Teedev[1] /home/ron/.perl6/lib
10:59 Teedev[1] don't have /usr/lib64/parrot/2.5.0/languages/perl6/lib in root directory!!!
10:59 tadzik Teedev[1]: have you read the README instructions?
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11:02 moritz_ tadzik: nobody ever read READMEs :(
11:02 moritz_ tadzik: are you in .nl now?
11:02 Teedev[1] tadzik,  yse i read it
11:02 moritz_ Teedev[1]: so which command did you run?
11:02 tadzik moritz_: in this particular case I'm unable to determine whether docs are not read, or whether neutro is _so_ broken :)
11:03 tadzik moritz_: aye, on the workshop
11:03 Teedev[1] # ./bootstrap.sh
11:03 tadzik trying the master branch?
11:03 Teedev[1] ?
11:04 moritz_ looks like
11:04 tadzik anyway, did it clone the git repos, are the "mt" and "ft" directories present?
11:05 Teedev[1] teedev:/home/ron/Downloads/tadzik-neutro-c41d1f3 # ls
11:05 Teedev[1] bin  bootstrap.sh  deps.proto  ft  mt  README
11:05 tadzik what if you run 'PERL6LIB=mt/lib:ft/lib bin/neutro .'?
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11:08 colomon lue: when I ask it to install inkscape, macports works for hours and then dies.
11:09 Teedev[1] tadzik,  ron@teedev:~/Downloads/tadzik-neutro-c41d1f3>  'PERL6LIB=mt/lib:ft/lib bin/neutro .'
11:09 Teedev[1] bash: PERL6LIB=mt/lib:ft/lib bin/neutro .: No such file or directory
11:09 Teedev[1] ron@teedev:~/Downloads/tadzik-neutro-c41d1f3>
11:11 tadzik oh that's weird
11:11 tadzik are those mt/ft directories empty?
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11:12 Teedev[1] tadzik, not empty.
11:12 Teedev[1] tadzik,  ron@teedev:~/Downloads/tadzik-neutro-c41d1f3> ls mt ft
11:12 Teedev[1] ft:
11:12 Teedev[1] lib  LICENSE  META.info  README  t
11:13 tadzik are the lib is in there? Looks like something's wrong with either your shell or your files, or I'm missing something
11:14 mberends http://www.perlworkshop.nl/nlpw2011/ rocks!  masak++ is starting his talk :-)
11:18 colomon \o/
11:22 Teedev[1] no time for online
11:23 Teedev[1] tadzik,  thanks for help me :D
11:23 Teedev[1] bye :P บายครับ
11:23 tadzik oh, you're welcome. Shame it's not working for you though
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11:38 tadzik did skip() stop working recently?
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11:44 tadzik rakudo: use Test; plan 1; skip(1, 'foo'); ok 0, 'blah!'
11:44 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«1..1␤get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Sub'␤  in main program body at line 7530␤»
11:44 tadzik at least LTA
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12:04 TimToady donri: <:Foo> was a recent invention, so yes, NYI, I suspect
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12:05 TimToady rakudo: say 'a' ~~ <Letter>
12:05 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
12:05 TimToady rakudo: say 'a' ~~ <isLetter>
12:05 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
12:05 TimToady rakudo: say 'a' ~~ <isL>
12:05 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
12:05 TimToady bleah
12:05 TimToady ENOBRANE
12:06 TimToady rakudo: say 'a' ~~ /<Letter>/
12:06 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Method 'Letter' not found for invocant of class 'Cursor'␤  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/8uHMHjW3_1␤  in 'Cool::match' at line 2659:CORE.setting␤  in 'Regex::ACCEPTS' at line 6271:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/8uHMHjW3_1␤»
12:06 TimToady rakudo: say 'a' ~~ /<isLetter>/
12:06 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«a␤»
12:06 TimToady donri: ^^
12:06 TimToady that's what it was before we invented <:Letter>
12:07 * TimToady is logged in from a livecd while copying files off an undead disk drive...
12:08 * TimToady ought to be sharpening a wooden stake instead
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12:20 * TimToady ought to be sleeping, actually, but jetlag hath its uses...
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13:00 donri TimToady: Thanks :) also: melatonin
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13:27 dalek rakudo: 3abc9c8 | tadzik++ | Test.pm:
13:27 dalek rakudo: Add a variant of skip() to Test.pm to overcome RT #85472
13:27 dalek rakudo:
13:27 dalek rakudo: Error message taken from Perl 5's Test::More
13:27 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3abc9c8f88
13:30 flussence argh, Text::Wrap seems to be doing something insane with how it counts \n as part of the line-length. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
13:38 dalek rakudo: 12dfa0d | tadzik++ | t/01-sanity/99-test-basic.t:
13:38 dalek rakudo: Fix tests of Test.pm to use the right order of arguments.
13:38 dalek rakudo:
13:38 dalek rakudo: Add a test for the wrong order.
13:38 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/12dfa0d593
13:38 dalek rakudo: c463f55 | tadzik++ | Test.pm:
13:38 dalek rakudo: [Test.pm] DRY in skip_rest
13:38 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c463f55e1c
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14:09 flussence rakudo: https://gist.github.com/856374
14:09 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 28␤»
14:09 flussence huh
14:11 flussence std: https://gist.github.com/856374
14:11 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/pDZeQSjxmS line 5:␤------> [32m        [33m⏏[31m&[$_]("abcde");[0m␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix & instead at /tmp/pDZeQSjxmS line 5:␤------> [32m
14:11 p6eval ..[33m⏏[31m&[$_]("abcd…
14:11 flussence works locally :/
14:15 flussence oh, no it didn't.
14:16 flussence rakudo: given 'say' { &[$_](1) }
14:16 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Any'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/JqHYEJjX9s␤»
14:16 flussence rakudo: given 'say' { &[$_].(1) }
14:16 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Any'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4EPFqSRj91␤»
14:16 flussence rakudo: given &say { &[$_].(1) }
14:16 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«Method 'count' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6MultiSub'␤  in 'Any::postcircumfix:<[ ]>' at line 1791:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
14:16 flussence rakudo: given &say { $_.(1) }
14:17 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«1␤»
14:17 flussence that's the one...
14:17 flussence std: https://gist.github.com/856374
14:17 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/btY8PWby_l line 7:␤------> [32m       (given $! { .Str, .WHAT, .perl })[33m⏏[31m».say[0m␤    expecting any of:␤      POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤
14:17 p6eval ..postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤   statement modifier loop␤…
14:17 flussence death by mojibake :(
14:18 flussence std: https://gist.github.com/856374
14:18 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 128m␤»
14:18 flussence rakudo: https://gist.github.com/856374
14:18 p6eval rakudo 413862: OUTPUT«&warn␤abcde␤Exception()␤und​ef␤&die␤abcde␤Exception()␤undef␤»
14:18 flussence there we go.
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14:54 cpk sorear: hi
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16:29 nwc10 what is the p5 post referenced in http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​hasers/2011-02-22#i_3323431 ?
16:32 moritz_ nwc10: not yet published, I fear
16:33 nwc10 and that's all we know about it? :-)
16:33 moritz_ we know it's about the 5th task of  http://strangelyconsistent.org/b​log/masaks-perl-6-coding-contest
16:34 nwc10 aha thanks.
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16:39 flussence Files=15, Tests=91 Result: PASS \o/
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17:12 sorear good * #perl6
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17:13 moritz_ \o
17:14 pumphaus_ is now known as pumphaus
17:14 sorear phenny: tell cpk The last two times you've tried to contact me it's been at night.  Please either stick around longer, or PM me an e-mail address.
17:14 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when cpk is around.
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17:43 * sorear wants to do something with <:Letter>
17:45 * TimToady still thinks the right path forward is not to use ICU everywhere, but to steal the data out of Perl 5's tables
17:46 sorear Perl 5's table generators are... big.
17:46 sorear I still don't really understand how most of them are put together
17:46 TimToady I'm not suggesting stealing the implementation
17:46 TimToady just the data
17:47 sorear but the data changes with each Unicode version
17:47 TimToady and Perl 5 tracks it
17:48 * sorear tries to quantify opposition to adding 100+ KB of tables
17:48 TimToady at some point we write our own mktables and track it ourselves
17:49 sorear currently niecza uses the CLR platform tables
17:49 sorear which include only General_Category and case mapping for characters 0-65535
17:49 moritz_ niecza: say uc 'ß'
17:49 TimToady most platforms screw up Unicode support
17:49 p6eval niecza v3-36-gce33cb7: OUTPUT«ß␤»
17:49 moritz_ seems this one does too
17:50 sorear What should that produce?  SS?
17:50 moritz_ yes
17:51 TimToady not that p5 supports that level either by default...
17:51 moritz_ $ perl -Mutf8 -wE 'say uc "ß"'
17:51 moritz_ SS
17:52 TimToady -Mutf8 isn't default :/
17:52 sorear What about "SS" ~~ /ß/i ?
17:52 moritz_ matches in Perl 5
17:52 sorear What about "ß" ~~ /SS/i ?
17:52 sorear What about "ß" ~~ /ss/i ?
17:53 moritz_ too
17:53 sorear ...what.
17:53 sorear how.
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17:53 moritz_ magic!
17:53 TimToady p5 canonicalizes to lc
17:54 TimToady because it understands there is also titlecase
17:54 TimToady course, that probably breaks other languages :)
17:55 TimToady but we're aiming for language independent grapheme semantics, which can't be perfect for everyone
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17:55 moritz_ that's ok as long as it's perfect for *me* :-)
17:56 porter235 is anyone packaging rakudo-star for ubuntu?
17:58 * moritz_ is not aware of anybody
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18:05 tadzik moritz_: my PM pal was doing this some time ago, hang on
18:06 tadzik oh that's just Rakudo: https://launchpad.net/~dexter/+archive/rakudo-pkg
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18:27 dalek specs: 411f2a5 | masak++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
18:27 dalek specs: [S32/Containers] removed parameter to .keys etc
18:27 dalek specs:
18:27 dalek specs: You could match on indexes/keys using an optional parameter on the .keys,
18:27 dalek specs: .values, .pairs, .enums, .kv methods. I discovered this by accident, and
18:27 dalek specs: went to check the source of both Rakudo and Niecza. Neither implements this
18:27 dalek specs: parameter. It's a very old parameter, but it seems no-one has cared about
18:27 dalek specs: it enough to ask for it or implement it. Besides, there are better, more
18:27 dalek specs: readable ways to accomplish the same thing:
18:27 dalek specs:
18:27 dalek specs:     %h.values(/^prefix/);                         # instead of this...
18:27 dalek specs:
18:27 dalek specs:     %h.pairs.grep({.key ~~ /^prefix/})».value;    # ...do this
18:27 dalek specs:     %h.kv.map({ $^value if $^key ~~ /^prefix/ }); # ...or this
18:27 dalek specs:     %h{%h.keys.grep(/^prefix/)};                  # ...or even this
18:27 dalek specs:
18:27 dalek specs: There are plenty of alternative ways to emulate the functionality that
18:27 dalek specs: the parameter provided, all of them (in my opinion) more tractable.
18:27 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/411f2a59f5
18:27 dalek specs: d8e2c04 | masak++ | S32-setting-library/Containers.pod:
18:27 dalek specs: [S32/Containers] fixed typo
18:27 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/d8e2c04218
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18:29 masak oh hai, #perl6 :)
18:29 sorear Hello, masak.
18:29 moritz_ \o
18:30 * masak is drinking whisky and making the spec smaller :P
18:32 masak if someone will stand up to defend that feature, please get in touch with me.
18:33 flussence dir() has a similar thing, doesn't it?
18:33 moritz_ yes, but it has a good reason
18:33 moritz_ it defaults to none <. ..>
18:33 flussence oh, yeah.
18:34 masak dir() has other issues :)
18:34 moritz_ yep, returning Strs for one
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18:34 masak I especially like how .values(/^prefix/) does filtering on the *keys*.
18:34 moritz_ s/does/did/
18:35 sorear dir's issues are related to the poor support for qp-y stuff in stadnard Perl 6
18:35 masak moritz_: troo
18:35 flussence (maybe Associative should have a match parameter, and dir() should subclass it... :)
18:35 * sorear should probably implement dir in niecza soon
18:35 moritz_ sorear: if you do, use your imagination, and make it better than rakudo's :-)
18:35 moritz_ flussence: noooooo
18:35 moritz_ neither is a dir() listing associative
18:36 masak flussence: what moritz_said.
18:36 flussence just kidding :)
18:36 moritz_ nor ... oh, there was a ':)' at the end
18:36 masak had this been p6l, there wouldn't have been :)
18:46 moritz_ how's the workshop going?
18:46 moritz_ or are you hackathoning today?
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19:17 masak moritz_: the workshop has finished. it was successful IMO.
19:17 sorear workshop on what?
19:18 masak sorear: Dutch Perl Workshop 2011
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19:29 masak thelazydeveloper: oh hai
19:29 thelazydeveloper oharrothar
19:29 masak :)
19:30 sorear Welcome, thelazydeveloper.
19:30 sorear Did masak invite you?
19:30 masak not that I know.
19:30 masak rakudo: my @a = 0..3; @a[0, 1] = @a[1, 3]; say @a.perl
19:30 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«[1, 3, 2, 3]␤»
19:30 * thelazydeveloper tips his hat
19:30 masak thelazydeveloper: that doesn't mean you shouldn't feel welcome :)
19:30 thelazydeveloper narp, he didn't invite
19:31 * thelazydeveloper takes off his shoes and kicks back
19:31 sorear niecza: my @a = 0..3; @a[0, 1] = @a[1, 3]; say @a.perl
19:31 thelazydeveloper Good to know
19:31 p6eval niecza v3-36-gce33cb7: OUTPUT«[1, 3, 2, 3]␤»
19:31 masak rakudo++ niecza++
19:31 masak thelazydeveloper: nice shoes.
19:31 sorear pugs: my @a = 0..3; @a[0, 1] = @a[1, 3]; say @a.perl
19:31 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«[1, 3, 2, 3]␤»
19:31 masak pugs++
19:32 sorear alpha: my @a = 0..3; @a[0, 1] = @a[1, 3]; say @a.perl
19:32 p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«[1, 3, 2, 3]␤»
19:32 masak alpha++ :)
19:33 masak I was trying to break slice assignment today, but I haven't succeeded yet.
19:33 masak s/break/expose of bug in/
19:33 sorear What bug?
19:33 masak none in particular.
19:33 masak was just looking for one :)
19:34 * sorear is trying to figure out unicode case mapping rules
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19:35 sorear particular question: how can my $str = "ss"; "ß" ~~ /$str/i possibly work?
19:35 sorear hi cpk
19:36 sorear for once you didn't come at midnight ;)
19:36 cpk hi sorear
19:36 phenny cpk: 17:14Z <sorear> tell cpk The last two times you've tried to contact me it's been at night.  Please either stick around longer, or PM me an e-mail address.
19:36 * masak is trying to decide what to hackathon on for three days
19:36 cpk i'm living in france
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19:37 cpk sorear: i tried niecza on my home pc (vista 32bits) and i have the same issue
19:37 sorear the runtime version thing?
19:37 cpk sorear: I have seen the IRC log of yesterday
19:38 cpk yep
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19:38 cpk so the v3 is broken when used with microsoft .net 4 ?
19:39 sorear I don't quite know why it's not working with .net 4
19:39 cpk ok
19:39 sorear however I know why it's broken with .net 2 / mono 2.6
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19:40 sorear I'll try to put together a binary release today for the 2.0 runtime
19:40 sorear hopefully that will work better on .net 4
19:40 cpk i hope too
19:41 masak I'm eager to try v3. did moritz_ succeed in getting .net 4 to work on Debian?
19:41 cpk I can't wait for using niecza on my windows PC ;-)
19:41 masak Niecza seems quite popular these days. :)
19:43 cpk masak: I like the fact that perl6 starts to work on other VM than parrot
19:43 tadzik it deserves it
19:43 sorear Rakudo is also moving to support Java/.net
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19:44 moritz_ masak: i just recompiled mono from source
19:44 moritz_ masak: took some time, but worked
19:44 masak moritz_: URL?
19:45 moritz_ masak: dunno, but easy to google
19:45 masak gotcha.
19:45 cpk I have to go, talk to you next week and have fun !
19:45 cpk bye
19:45 masak cpk: \o
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19:52 tadzik hrm, could someone take a look at the skip() madness and what currently happens in the spectests?
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19:53 moritz_ tadzik: what about it?
19:53 lue hello world!
19:54 tadzik moritz_: seen my latest patch?
19:54 tadzik lue: hi!
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19:54 tadzik then take a look at t/spec/S06-multi/proto.rakudo:33
19:55 tadzik that case causes an ambigous dispatch I believe
19:55 masak hi lue!
19:55 moritz_ tadzik: well, 'skip 1' is not very fortunate
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19:56 tadzik moritz_: well, skip(1,1) is quite weird anyway
19:56 lue Trying to get the Principle of Explosion to work in Perl 6 is an interesting distraction :)
19:56 tadzik but it still feels like this entire multis are a bit wrongish
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19:56 tadzik so maybe there should be one multi with 2 params, checking whether the first one is Int inside
19:57 tadzik lemme code what I think
19:57 moritz_ tadzik: the signature and error message in that skip() multi don'T fit well together either
19:57 moritz_ +# needed because of RT #85472
19:57 moritz_ +multi sub skip(Int $count, $reason) is export {
19:57 moritz_ +    die "skip() was passed a non-numeric number of tests.  Did you get the argu
19:58 moritz_ there's no check in there that $reason is non-numeric
19:58 moritz_ which is why you get that error
19:58 tadzik like this: http://wklej.org/id/487473/
19:58 masak lue: getting the principle of explosion "to work" in Perl 6? :)
19:58 dalek roast: 20f0418 | moritz++ | S06-multi/proto.t:
19:58 dalek roast: improve fudge message
19:58 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/20f04189b4
19:58 moritz_ rakudo: say pir::null__p() # EXPLOSION
19:58 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4NIeUBmR89␤»
19:59 masak lue: isn't it, like, a general logical principle that holds all the time and regardless of circumstances?
19:59 lue Er, trying to use the principle of explosion, I meant :)
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19:59 tadzik moritz_: well, that patch is due to a different error coming from typechecking $count actually, in your patch
19:59 masak lue: the one that says "anything follows from a contradiction"?
19:59 lue Yes, that's the one.
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19:59 moritz_ tadzik: the error message and the check still aren't aligned in that nopaste
20:00 tadzik what do you mean?
20:00 masak lue: I guess I'm having trouble seeing how anything you might write in a program would change the way that principle plays out.
20:00 moritz_ tadzik: it says that something is *not* numeric, but you are checking that some *is* an Int
20:00 masak lue: it feels like saying "I'm trying to get gravity to work in English".
20:01 moritz_ tadzik: how about $count !~~ Int # instead?
20:01 lue I'm just trying to see how I could make $p ^ $q and $p ^ !$q both come out True.
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20:02 moritz_ rakudo: say so True ^ False
20:02 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
20:02 tadzik oh, I see the point
20:02 moritz_ rakudo: say so True ^ !False
20:02 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
20:02 tadzik I just borrowed the message from Test::More
20:02 moritz_ just overload infix:<^> to always return True?
20:02 masak :P
20:02 masak let's overload Logic!
20:02 lue waitaminute. There's a valid  so  operator‽
20:03 moritz_ sure.
20:03 tadzik die "skip() was passed a numeric reason parameter. -- better now?
20:03 masak The Operator Formerly Known As 'true'.
20:03 lue moritz_: That feels like cheating though.
20:03 moritz_ rakudo: say so True ^ any(True, False)
20:03 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
20:04 moritz_ rakudo: say so True ^ !any(True, False)
20:04 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
20:04 moritz_ hm.
20:04 moritz_ problem is that ! doesn't autothraed
20:04 sorear perl6: say defined 1 && 0
20:04 p6eval niecza v3-36-gce33cb7: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
20:04 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:04 flussence takadonet: ping
20:04 masak rakudo: say all(True, False).not
20:04 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
20:05 masak tadzik, jnthn, and I are sitting in the same sofa behind our laptops. people are stopping by all the time pointing out how cute we look.
20:06 moritz_ send pics!
20:06 tadzik hah, hold on
20:07 donri What is <EXPR> really?
20:07 masak donri: it's the rule for Perl 6 expressions.
20:07 moritz_ a call to a named subrule
20:07 donri (In PCT)
20:07 tadzik I actually made a screenshot of us :)
20:07 Rotwang left #perl6
20:07 masak right, a call to the rule.
20:07 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/F5GIX.jpg
20:08 donri but do my own rules match on <EXPR> somehow?
20:08 lue does    say so    mean what it does in English, as in "why didn't you just SAY SO‽‽"
20:08 sorear TimToady: Now, I'm pondering "ß" ~~ / [:i .] . /
20:09 masak donri: not implicitly, no.
20:09 jnthn heh, I forgot to look at the camera :P
20:09 moritz_ masak, tadzik: yes, you're a cute bunch
20:09 donri masak: but how do you do that then? e.g. if I have a rule for function calls
20:09 masak moritz_: :>
20:10 sorear tadzik: where are y'all?
20:10 * tadzik blushes
20:10 tadzik sorear: Dutch Perl Workshop
20:10 moritz_ donri: maybe you should rephrase your question
20:10 sorear Who'se #4?
20:10 moritz_ I have a feeling you didn't mean to ask the question that masak++ answered
20:10 moritz_ sorear: mberends
20:10 moritz_ (on the left)
20:10 masak donri: what moritz_ said.
20:11 masak donri: I'm getting a bit of an XY problem vibe here.
20:11 donri doesn't EXPR match calls to functions in squaak for example?
20:11 donri but i can't figure out how/why
20:12 masak donri: are you writing an HLL?
20:12 donri toying with it yes
20:12 masak ok.
20:12 masak then the question makes sense.
20:12 moritz_ donri: EXPR generally matches things of the form  <term> [<infix> <term>]*
20:12 masak but if the Squaak tutorial doesn't do it for you, I'm not sure I can be of much help. :/
20:12 donri yea I should probably go to #parrot but, not on freenode :(
20:13 moritz_ as well as prefix and postfix operators
20:13 moritz_ so I hope that your <term> rule matches function calls
20:13 _dev0_ left #perl6
20:13 sorear [ <prefix>* <term> <postfix>* ] ** <infix> :)
20:13 moritz_ sorear: modulo [post]?circumfix
20:14 donri is it about naming, e.g. term: rules?
20:14 donri it's unclear to me when a rule name is significant and not
20:14 moritz_ donri: well, all the term:stuff rules are part of the 'proto term { ... }' rule
20:15 donri yes, but is that 'term' rule significant in itself?
20:15 sorear 'term' is significant because it has a well known name
20:15 donri its name, I mean, is that used by stuff inherited by HLL::Grammar
20:15 donri hm I should go read the source for the parent grammar
20:15 sorear NQP's EXPR uses term, I think
20:15 sorear donri: it's written in pir, yhbw
20:16 donri hehe
20:16 moritz_ but iirc it's commented at a lot
20:21 Rotwang joined #perl6
20:21 porter235 left #perl6
20:21 masak moritz_: is it MonoDevelop I should download? it's just version 2.4.2, I thought I was looking for something 4.x
20:21 moritz_ masak: mono-2.10.1.tar.gz or so
20:22 masak oh, ok.
20:22 sorear MonoDevelop is an IDE
20:22 moritz_ masak: http://ftp.novell.com/pub/mono/s​ources/mono/mono-2.10.1.tar.bz2
20:23 sorear it is versioned independantly of mono
20:23 masak moritz_: thanks.
20:24 tadzik bbi60
20:24 tadzik and I think I fixed that Test.pm wrongness
20:27 masak left #perl6
20:35 mberends left #perl6
20:38 donri yay i can has working hll base
20:38 donri thanks guys
20:38 _sri left #perl6
20:39 justatheory joined #perl6
20:39 _sri joined #perl6
20:46 moritz_ in the Perl 5 code I'm writing right now I'd so love to use :$foo to mean foo => $foo
20:58 risou_ left #perl6
21:00 _twitch left #perl6
21:06 y3llow_ joined #perl6
21:06 sorear TimToady: in light of STD.pm6:4290, what does / <[ \ß ]> / mean? :)
21:06 pothos_ joined #perl6
21:06 whiteknight joined #perl6
21:08 pothos left #perl6
21:08 y3llow left #perl6
21:08 y3llow_ is now known as y3llow
21:08 pothos_ is now known as pothos
21:13 takadonet1 joined #perl6
21:13 takadonet1 flussence: yo
21:14 flussence I fixed the infinite loop bug!
21:14 takadonet1 !!!!
21:14 flussence (and pretty much rewrote all of Text::Wrap doing so)
21:14 takadonet1 i knew you could do it
21:15 flussence I guess now all that needs doing is cleaning up the leftover p5 pod stuff
21:15 takadonet1 and put your name as the main author :)
21:16 flussence hm, I've got half a mind to give you the blame for starting it :)
21:17 takadonet1 sounds good
21:20 takadonet1 flussence: anything else sir?
21:23 sorear after picking over UTS10 and UTS18, I think I understand how this works
21:23 flussence those global vars need to go away at some point, I'll leave them in for compatibility though until I figure out a better way to do it
21:23 sorear in particular, "ß" ~~ / :i <!before s> ss / will match :)
21:24 sorear slightly counterintuitive but perfectly well-defined
21:24 takadonet1 flussence:  ok
21:24 moritz_ sorear: as long as we have something to point people to when they submit bug reports... :-)
21:27 flussence (hm, perl6.vim seems to have some outdated "#( )" comment syntax instead of "#`( )"...)
21:29 flussence (":1290,1329s/#/#`/g" seems to make it DWIW)
21:38 sorear std: 1 + #(  ) 2
21:38 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/EXosEXYD8M line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m1 + #(  ) 2[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Other potential difficulties:␤  Embedded comment seems to be missing backtick at /tmp/EXosEXYD8M line 1:␤------> [32m1 + #(  )[33m⏏[31m 2[0m␤Parse
21:38 p6eval ..failed␤FAIL…
21:39 sorear moritz_: what worries me is that said bug reports probably won't be in English
21:40 moritz_ sorear: if they are in German, I can help :-)
21:40 sorear yes, we're quite lucky to have you
21:41 sorear but what if they're in Spanish?
21:43 moritz_ I think in general we can ask for English bug reports
21:43 moritz_ and if we find nobody who translates, and the automatic translation aren't helpful either, we can still reject them
21:57 colomon joined #perl6
22:06 * tadzik is back
22:06 moritz_ wb
22:17 porter235 joined #perl6
22:19 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
22:21 porter235 left #perl6
22:24 Mowah left #perl6
22:28 tadzik rakudo: say $_ while prompt("asd") # is that correct?
22:28 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«asdAny()␤asdAny()␤asdAny()␤asd​Any()␤asdAny()␤asdAny()␤asdAny()␤asd»
22:28 flussence I'm guessing the intent is to loop until it gets an EOF, right?
22:28 zby_home left #perl6
22:29 masak joined #perl6
22:29 zby_home joined #perl6
22:30 jnthn rakudo: while prompt("asd") -> $line { say $line }
22:30 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«asdLand der Berge, Land am Strome,␤asdLand der Äcker, Land der Dome,␤asdLand der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!␤asdHeimat bist du großer Söhne,␤asdVolk, begnadet für das Schöne,␤asdvielgerühmtes Österreich,␤asdvielgerühmtes Österreich!␤asd»
22:30 flussence (should prompt() recognise a ^D?)
22:30 tadzik flussence: it does
22:36 moritz_ tadzik: yes, prompt() doesn't set $_ implicitly
22:36 moritz_ no function does
22:36 kaare_ left #perl6
22:38 sorear hello jnthn
22:39 masak jnthn just went to sleep.
22:39 sorear moritz_: 'while' is supposed to set $_, though
22:39 masak sorear: say what? o.O
22:39 masak would you mind checking the spec again?
22:39 moritz_ sorear: no.
22:39 sorear actually I'm only sure about that in the prefix case
22:40 masak sorry, but no.
22:40 masak actually, I'm not disagreeing with the fact that you're certain about it. :P
22:40 Rotwang left #perl6
22:41 sorear interesting, S04 contradicts itself
22:41 moritz_ rakudo: while 3 { .say; last }
22:41 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
22:41 moritz_ rakudo: while 3 -> $_ { .say; last }
22:41 p6eval rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«3␤»
22:41 moritz_ interesting.
22:41 masak not terribly.
22:41 moritz_ perl6: while 3 -> $_ { .say; last }
22:41 p6eval pugs, rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«3␤»
22:41 p6eval ..niecza v3-36-gce33cb7: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: No value in mainline available for parameter $_␤  at /tmp/QlafEZyHqE line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 3)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1261 (CORE C524_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1262 (CORE module-CORE @ 39)␤
22:41 p6eval ..at /home/p6eva…
22:42 moritz_ perl6: while 3  { .say; last }
22:42 p6eval niecza v3-36-gce33cb7: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method say in class Any␤  at /tmp/o7uAnmEFKg line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 4)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1261 (CORE C524_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1262 (CORE module-CORE @ 39)␤  at
22:42 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niec…
22:42 p6eval ..rakudo c463f5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
22:42 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
22:43 dalek specs: 6828ff4 | sorear++ | S04-control.pod:
22:43 dalek specs: Fix self-contradiction in S04
22:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/6828ff4487
22:46 Mowah joined #perl6
22:46 * Tene prods jnthn about future availability to talk about p6object
22:48 PacoLinux_ left #perl6
22:49 masak Tene: not in another 7-8 hours, I'd guess.
22:50 Tene 'k
22:50 flussence Is there an up-to-date .html translation of S26 anywhere?
22:53 masak not that I know.
22:53 masak maybe try generating one with Damian's CPAN module?
22:53 zby_home left #perl6
22:55 donri Is there a better way to do this in nqp?    my $int := ""; for $<digit> { $int := $int ~ $_; }
22:55 masak left #perl6
22:56 dalek rakudo: d85450a | tadzik++ | Test.pm:
22:56 dalek rakudo: Hopefully fix the skip() insanity
22:56 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d85450af26
22:56 dalek rakudo: bfdd78d | tadzik++ | src/core/List.pm:
22:56 dalek rakudo: Fail when trying to reverse an infinite list
22:56 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/bfdd78dde1
22:58 flussence (hmm, I could use that CPAN module, but I prefer the insane method personally...)
23:25 arnsholt donri: The base HLL grammar has a built-in rule for parsing integers, if that's what you're trying
23:25 donri yep but I'm not sure how to extend it
23:25 donri I want to allow commas
23:26 arnsholt Hmm. Not sure how to do that, off-hand
23:26 donri I have it working but not very elegant :)
23:27 donri that is, manually with <digit>
23:27 arnsholt You could try looking at Rakudo's grammar. Think it allows _
23:28 arnsholt Working and not elegant beats elegant and not working, any day =)
23:34 donri haha true
23:34 donri just curious for sake of learning nqp better
23:36 arnsholt If you're working on an HLL I can recommend looking into how NQP is built up as well
23:36 arnsholt Knowing the grammar well enough to see what constructs are avilable is quite useful, and it's useful for building one's own HLL as well =)
23:39 donri Everyone is building their own web framework these days; I predict in the future everyone will build their own Parrot HLL for every problem domain. ;)
23:39 donri (Joke, but not completely.)
23:52 Tene donri: answering your specific question, pir::join('', @($<digit>))
23:52 Tene oslt
23:52 donri ooh
23:53 Tene donri: alternately, capture it as one string and subst out the ,s oslt
23:54 donri works without the @()
23:55 fisted_ joined #perl6
23:56 Tene yeah, rakudo's &radcalc ignores _, and handles alternate bases, etc.
23:56 fisted left #perl6
23:57 MayDaniel left #perl6

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