Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-03-08

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:03 sorear o/ TheMartianGeek
00:03 TheMartianGeek ?
00:04 sjohnson he's saying hi
00:04 sorear Just hi
00:04 TheMartianGeek Hi.
00:04 dalek niecza: 680b5fb | sorear++ | / (4 files):
00:04 dalek niecza: Support unit names with :: and filenames like A/B.pm
00:04 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/680b5fb550
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00:35 dalek niecza: 4f25aea | sorear++ | src/Op.pm6:
00:35 dalek niecza: Stub in type fields for my and has declarations
00:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4f25aea37f
00:35 dalek niecza: cab2294 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
00:35 dalek niecza: Start collecting example code
00:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cab2294aa4
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01:39 dalek niecza: e835ea6 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
01:39 dalek niecza: Parse types on declarators
01:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e835ea6fe9
01:39 dalek niecza: 34092d2 | sorear++ | src/Op.pm6:
01:39 dalek niecza: Stub in sigil and rw fields for attributes
01:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/34092d247b
01:39 dalek niecza: bb8c799 | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
01:39 dalek niecza: Pass declaration type constraints down to nam-level
01:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bb8c799be8
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02:44 dalek niecza: 2e201e7 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
02:44 dalek niecza: Actually implement variable and attribute type constraining
02:44 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2e201e74e7
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02:47 sorear std: 2 R.= pred;
02:47 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
02:53 diakopter std: 2 RZ.= 1;
02:54 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 119m␤»
02:56 sorear std: 1 + 2 R:foo
02:56 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/svr4UE2FMS line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m1 + 2 R:foo[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
02:57 sorear std: 1 + 2 >>:foo
02:57 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing << or >> at /tmp/zOEVWzNXAN line 1:␤------> [32m1 + 2 >>:foo[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     coloncircumfix␤ infix_circumfix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
02:57 sorear std: 1 + 2 :foo=
02:57 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Bogus term at /tmp/iOL9YN5x4R line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32m1 + 2 :foo=[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
02:57 sorear std: [:foo] 1, 2, 3
02:57 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
03:00 entel woah
03:00 entel that is ugly
03:01 TimToady I don't mind if the semantic analysis blows most of those out of the water, with prejudice...
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03:02 takadonet1 pyrimidine: ping
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06:38 mberends yawn. waking up in the middle of the night should be put to good use.
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06:40 dalek rakudo: 3680ac3 | martin++ | tools/test_summary.pl:
06:40 dalek rakudo: [tools/test_summary.pl] switch to grep, improve workarounds for planless tests
06:40 dalek rakudo:
06:40 dalek rakudo: The script partly failed on ack-challenged systems, also on those that name it
06:40 dalek rakudo: ack-grep, such as Debian/Ubuntu.  Now grep does that work more portably.
06:40 dalek rakudo:
06:40 dalek rakudo: The script also jumped through some convoluted hoops attempting to calculate
06:40 dalek rakudo: the total number of tests planned per script and per Synopsis - one of the
06:40 dalek rakudo: drawbacks of planless testing.  It now jumps through the hoops in a less
06:40 dalek rakudo: convoluted way.
06:40 dalek rakudo:
06:40 dalek rakudo: Please give 'time perl tools/test_summary.pl' a try when you would otherwise
06:40 dalek rakudo: have run 'make spectest' - it takes the same amount of time and gives a more
06:40 dalek rakudo: detailed output.  As an added bonus, each test is benchmarked in microseconds
06:40 dalek rakudo: with the results accumulating in 'docs/test_summary.times'.
06:40 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3680ac3f29
06:43 mberends hmm, must fix my git user name locally again (lost during fresh OS installation)
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06:58 woldrich If I want to buy a book on Perl6, what would I buy?
06:58 woldrich The Perl6 Essentials book is quite old
07:01 * sorear is amazed that Perl 6 books exist at *all*
07:01 sorear hello mberends
07:02 Tene woldrich: go to a copy shop and print off your own copy of https://github.com/perl6/book
07:02 woldrich I think that'll be quite expensive though
07:02 Tene woldrich: or wait until that is finished and published at some future time.
07:02 mberends hi sorear, I wish you were hear (at the hackthon)
07:03 Tene woldrich: No, it shouldn't be.  In the past when I've done that, it's been around $10-$15 to get it printed and spiral bound
07:03 woldrich I once printed out a Perl5 book on my printer at home. I didnt realize it was > 800 pages. It took a while...
07:03 * sorear generally agrees with merlyn that mass printing would be premature
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07:04 sorear mberends: me too!
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07:04 woldrich Is merlyn active in the perl6 community?
07:04 Tene http://www.fedex.com/us/office/ seems to now have a "book printing" option, claiming to start around $13, and that's where I've gone in the past (used to be kinkos, I guess)
07:04 sorear he appears from time to time
07:05 woldrich I just found this; http://www.amazon.com/Perl-Another-Virtual-Mach​ine-Documentation/dp/1157336175/ref=sr_1_1?s=bo​oks&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1299567906&amp;sr=1-1
07:05 Tene sorear: there was a book published about parrot, iirc...
07:06 sorear Tene: when I found out about it I laughed
07:06 Tene :D
07:06 sorear parrot has been completely redesigned about three times since then
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07:08 lopaway is now known as lopnor
07:08 * sorear is having difficulty figuring out how to implement $foo .= bar;
07:09 TiMBuS whats the perl6 version of getline
07:09 sorear $fh.get
07:09 sorear rakudo: say $*IN.get
07:09 TiMBuS thanks. i mindblanked and irc is faster than google
07:09 p6eval rakudo 7fb634: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤»
07:09 TiMBuS sometimes
07:10 TiMBuS and, .lines is lazy correct?
07:12 lopnor is now known as lopaway
07:13 TiMBuS wait no that wouldnt be the case..
07:14 moritz_ .lines is lazy, yes
07:15 sorear usually, the arguments to an infix operator are things that evaluate to a value
07:15 sorear the right argument of .= is a method name
07:16 moritz_ iirc it's special-cased in the grammar and in the actions
07:16 sorear what actions? :)
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07:21 moritz_ semantic translation pass
07:22 sorear this is for niecza
07:22 sorear there is no semantic translation for .= yet
07:24 moritz_ well, you need one
07:27 dalek niecza: 8b27c3b | sorear++ | / (2 files):
07:27 dalek niecza: Add support for $x.=foo and $x .= foo
07:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8b27c3be3d
07:27 sorear it does not please me that these two code paths are almost entirely independant in STD
07:28 * sorear -> sleep
07:28 TiMBuS rakudo: my @l := $*IN.lines; say @l[0]; say $*IN.get; say @l[0];
07:29 p6eval rakudo 7fb634: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,␤Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤»
07:29 TiMBuS i see..
07:29 TiMBuS rakudo: my @l := $*IN.lines; say @l[0]; say $*IN.get; say @l[1];
07:30 p6eval rakudo 7fb634: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,␤Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!␤»
07:30 TiMBuS oh boy..
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07:35 masak morning, zebras.
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07:36 sorear masak: *drive by hello*
07:37 sorear just finished my prereport... leaving IRC soon
07:37 masak sorear++
07:37 masak (for prereporting, not for leaving) :)
07:37 mberends *chghh*oedemor*chghh*en masak
07:37 masak :P
07:38 masak mberends: that's not you in the shower, then...
07:38 mberends was in the bath tbh
07:38 masak ooh
07:39 masak I'll just wait here in this comfortable bed then, for the hot water reserve to rebuild itself... :)
07:40 * masak digs back into the p5 post
07:41 mberends 40°C and building
07:41 masak I don't need any hotter than that, actually... :)
07:41 * mberends likes it HOT
07:42 * masak hears jnthn stirring, and dashes for the shower
07:43 mberends impossible, it's before 9am locally and he has no $dayjob today!
07:51 tadzik o/
07:57 masak mberends: I realized that after the dashing...
07:57 masak but it was a good way to motivate myself out of the warm, cozy bed. :)
07:57 masak tadzik: \o
07:59 mberends o/ tadzik, you is haz a good sleep?
08:00 masak 'is haz' being the perfect participle in lol...
08:02 mberends one of its many uses
08:03 masak "Im shure I is haz the toy mouse sumwhere..."
08:04 mberends s/sumwhere/sumware[z]/
08:05 masak oh right
08:05 masak mberends++ # lolgrammarian
08:05 mberends nah, just a n00b
08:08 tadzik mberends: notmuch, but notbad :)
08:08 masak I feel like a n00b, too. the first thing that happened when I got down here is that I fell into the liquorice trap...
08:09 masak I got out, but just barely.
08:09 mberends oops
08:10 masak it was ironic because what I really was after was the juice... :)
08:11 mberends .oO( iron liquorice juice )
08:12 mberends sound like the name of a '70s psychedelic rock album
08:13 masak :D
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08:16 mberends omg jnthn++ is in the shower!
08:17 masak all morning: live reporting from the Berends manor.
08:17 masak stay tuned for more.
08:17 mberends should we create an @vught account on twitter?
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08:18 masak if this becomes a recurrent thing, sure.
08:20 mberends hopefully the hackathon becomes a recurrent thing, not sure if it can though
08:20 masak no... :/
08:20 masak mberends: we should invite you up to Lund soonish.
08:21 masak and make you wonderful dals and home-made pizzas \o/
08:22 mberends masak: no need, I autovivify invitations as the opportunities arise :)
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08:22 masak oh, by 'we should invite' I really meant 'you should come' :P
08:22 mberends :)
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08:32 mathw I think that was your invitation :)
08:33 masak $invitation.is-open = True;
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08:44 mberends $self.accepts($invitation);
08:45 masak $inviter.perform-gesture('\o/')
08:45 masak ;
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08:46 mathw $observer.snort($milk, :diversion($nose.interior));
08:47 masak whoa, I didn't know we were using the Observer pattern...
08:47 masak also, I think we're breaking Demeter's law with that $nose variable... :P
08:48 jnthn oh morning...
08:48 masak jnthn! \o/
08:48 jnthn I wish you didn't make me being in the shower seem like a surprising thing :P
08:49 masak sounds like you didn't backlog far enough... :)
08:49 mathw oh hai jnthn
08:49 TiMBuS it would surprise me if you were in my shower D:
08:49 mathw it'd surprise you if you were in mine
08:49 mathw it likes to surprise people with sudden temperature fluctuations
08:50 jnthn oh fluc...
08:50 mathw and sometimes a cat peering around the curtain
08:50 masak 'fluc' sounds like a French fizzy drink.
08:51 mberends jnthn: it wasn't sufficiently explained that the $time-of-morning was the surprising part.
08:52 jnthn oh, I see that now... :)
08:52 masak rakudo: say (my %).push("foo" => 2, "foo" => 5).perl
08:52 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«{"foo" => [2, 5]}␤»
08:53 jnthn Mmm. There is a tempting pack of stroopwafels sat right next to me.
08:53 moritz_ wow, (my %).push is pretty cool :-)
08:53 masak I'm reviewing p5 solutions :)
08:53 moritz_ of course you could have used {}.push too :-)
08:54 masak hm, true.
08:54 moritz_ but the elitism doesn't shine through {} quite as clearly as through (my %)
08:54 masak :D
08:54 masak the contestant doesn't do either, so it's fine.
08:57 moritz_ masak++ # -n
08:57 moritz_ masak++ # -p
08:57 masak Rakudo is now NP-complete \o/
08:58 masak tadzik immediately saw the potential for this technique being abused for other options...
08:58 masak I say let's abuse it till it bites us ;)
08:59 mathw jnthn: what are stroopwafels?
08:59 mathw are they things I should know about?
08:59 masak mathw: syrup waffles.
08:59 moritz_ no! Then more will remain for me
08:59 masak mathw: and yes.
08:59 moritz_ tadzik: you have table tennis classes? (backlogging...) now I' jealous
08:59 masak mathw: they're a Dutch specialty.
08:59 jnthn They're amazing.
09:00 masak they're probably very unhealthy.
09:00 jdhore I think this week i'm going to do all the local stuff that's supposed to be done for a release...Just so i can make sure i know how to do everything so (if there's nothing broken in Rakudo), the release on the 17th will be super-smooth sailing
09:00 masak jdhore: that's a good idea.
09:00 mathw hmm
09:00 jdhore :D
09:00 * jnthn puts one into his mouth...MMMMMMM
09:00 mathw waffles are something we've never really adopted over here
09:00 moritz_ jdhore: you can also fork rakudo on github, and do all of the release, except sending the email
09:00 mathw other than the occasionally-found belgian waffles served as dessert
09:00 jdhore Also, Waffles FTW
09:01 * moritz_ had waffles on Sunday and yesterday for breakfast
09:01 jdhore moritz_, Well, I'll prolly rm my tree and do a clean clone on release day. I'm anal like that.
09:02 mathw I think the first time I had waffles was in Germany actually
09:02 mathw it was supposed to be Kaffee und Kuchen, but it was Waffeln und Orangensaft instead :)
09:03 moritz_ :-)
09:03 moritz_ "Kafee und Kuchen" is more like a label like "tea time", and doesn't necessarily refer to what is actually offered (though it often does)
09:04 mathw I didn't complain
09:04 mathw I'm not much of a fan of Kafee
09:05 moritz_ (sorry, Kaffee. Can't spell in my native language either :-)
09:06 tadzik moritz_: that's actually my PE classes
09:06 tadzik used to be gym and the swimming pool, you can choose what you want
09:07 tadzik I should invite you to Poland one day
09:07 mathw I did think that was a bit odd :)
09:07 tadzik although there are not many nice Perl events here
09:07 moritz_ tadzik: I wish I had that option back then; I've always been doing in it my copious free time, and was rather bad in other PE subjects
09:08 tadzik schade
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09:14 mathw swimming was the only thing in PE I ever enjoyed
09:14 mathw my teacher even noticed
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09:15 moritz_ for me swimming was always "trying not to drown" :-)
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09:27 moritz_ jnthn: https://gist.github.com/860081 nqp build fail in ctmo branch
09:30 moritz_ huh, getting the same error in master
09:31 moritz_ jnthn: what parrot do you use for building nqp?
09:37 jnthn moritz_: Just using the one in the current parrot revision file, afaik
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09:38 jnthn moritz_: oh ouch
09:39 jnthn oh wait, I think I found it.
09:40 moritz_ jnthn: once my build works again, I'd like to bump PARROT_REVISION and patch nqp's Configure.pl to explicitly use the generational GC. Would that be OK for you?
09:41 jnthn +1
09:41 moritz_ I don't want to interrupt your productivity by cleaning up new parrot mess... :-)
09:41 jnthn Do it in master
09:41 moritz_ sure
09:41 jnthn I'll merge into ctmo
09:41 masak I've always like swimming, too. I took extra long to learn during the mandatory swimming classes in grade school, just because I liked it. :)
09:42 masak jnthn: "ctmo"? Chief Technology Marketing Officer?
09:43 moritz_ CerializaTion of Meta Objects, obviously :-)
09:43 jnthn Compile time Meta Objects :P
09:43 masak it rolls off the tongue nicely... "ctmo"...
09:44 masak "Don't worry, this is my Cuban Terrorist Modus Operandi."
09:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: 5cd263b | jonathan++ | src/pmc/nqplexinfo.pmc:
09:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: Remove an assertion check that is no longer valid. Guess they must not get checked on my platform, somehow. moritz++ for noticing.
09:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5cd263bc76
09:45 jnthn moritz_: ^^ and feel free to cherry pick into master
09:47 moritz_ jnthn: will do (and test)
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09:47 jmm_ hello guys !
09:48 masak hello jmm_!
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09:48 * moritz_ hopes we have girls too
09:48 masak moritz_: I find it slightly over-PC to claim that the generic 'guys' leaves out women... ;)
09:49 masak it's like objecting to the phrase "A small step for Man..."
09:49 mberends rakudo: my $i=3; sub be() { (("night","the","in","strangers")[$i--]~" ").print; }; do be; do be; do be; do be # do
09:49 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«strangers in the night »
09:49 huf is on average a middling step for woman
09:49 huf yeah
09:51 masak Douglas Hofstadter thinks it's a silent contributor to non-equality, though. he has a fascinating essay wherein he converts the usual gender pronouns into ones pertaining to race.
09:51 masak it's in "Metamagical Themas"
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09:59 mathw I do feel most languages miss out on third-person gender-neutral pronouns
09:59 masak Finnish, Estonian and Ido being nice exceptions.
09:59 mathw and Lojban :)
10:00 masak of course :P
10:00 huf and hungarian :)
10:00 masak oh yes.
10:00 masak Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian go together :)
10:00 mathw excellent
10:00 huf yep
10:00 mathw actual natural languages too
10:00 masak Mandarin is a funny middle-ground example. their 3p pronouns *sound* the same but are written differently.
10:00 mathw in English we seem to end up using 'they' which is rather unsatisfactory
10:00 huf there's a downside tho, you lose the disambiguating power of he/she
10:01 masak those stupid missionaries introduced the female 3p character.
10:01 mathw huf: does Hungarian not have gender-specific ones as well?
10:01 huf nope
10:01 mathw interesting
10:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: 4b97ed3 | jonathan++ | / (7 files):
10:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap with setting loading in the compiled code.
10:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4b97ed3313
10:01 mathw Lojban doesn't either, but I'd not have expected to find that in a natural language
10:02 moritz_ $ ./nqp t/nqp/05-comments.t
10:02 moritz_ "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'NQPCORE.setting.pbc'
10:02 huf i'm just glad english doesnt take the gender thing seriously
10:02 moritz_ jnthn: that seems to be happening for all test files (in master)
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10:02 jnthn moritz_: huh
10:02 jnthn Does it happen in the ctmo branch?
10:03 moritz_ that was master, but I'll try ctmo too
10:03 masak "Citrus Tangerine Melon Orange"
10:03 jnthn moritz_: Also, do you have an NQPCORE.setting.pbc file?
10:03 huf for a second there i thought you had a branch called "cmot"
10:03 moritz_ yep, in src/stage{0,1,2}/
10:04 jnthn Oh,  but it shoulda been copied too
10:04 jnthn to the root dir
10:04 moritz_ I'll double-check that after I tried ctmo
10:04 Tene jnthn: No 6model for me tonight; got stuck with work again :(
10:06 dalek nqp/ctmo: f313172 | jonathan++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:06 dalek nqp/ctmo: Makefile.in fix; moritz++ for reporting.
10:06 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f313172e5f
10:07 jnthn Tene: Aww. I didn't get tuits for writng the repr for you yesterday either...so many things to hack on!
10:07 jnthn moritz_: See f313172. Bet it's that.
10:09 * moritz_ tries with cherry-picking
10:11 masak <TimToady> Nil is the absence of an expected value
10:11 masak with this reasoning, shouldn't hash misses yield a Nil value?
10:11 masak rakudo: my %h; say %h<nonexistent>.WHAT
10:11 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
10:12 masak then again, the hashes are typed as having Any values by default...
10:14 dalek nqp: f15a5ef | jonathan++ | src/pmc/nqplexinfo.pmc:
10:14 dalek nqp: Remove an assertion check that is no longer valid. Guess they must not get checked on my platform, somehow. moritz++ for noticing.
10:14 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f15a5efe02
10:14 dalek nqp: 95092bf | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:14 dalek nqp: fix Makefile.in by jnthn++ (automatic cherry-pick of f313172 failed, sorry)
10:14 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/95092bf1ce
10:16 jnthn moritz_: Did it help?
10:17 moritz_ jnthn: ja
10:17 moritz_ build fine, 'make test' same as usual
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10:20 jnthn moritz_: As in, couple of fails?
10:21 tadzik mberends++ # do be do be do be do
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10:28 moritz_ jnthn: as in, 02-modules.t fails
10:28 moritz_ jnthn: and the rest is clean
10:28 moritz_ (master)
10:31 tadzik having trouble building the Book: http://wklej.org/id/488962/
10:31 tadzik can anyone help?
10:33 moritz_ build succeeeds here
10:33 moritz_ I also get the "UsingPerl6.a4.d: No such file or directory
10:33 moritz_ message
10:35 moritz_ tadzik: is that failure repeatable after a 'make clean'?
10:38 tadzik moritz_: aye. And git clean
10:39 tadzik otoh, I'm not sure if I have all the dependencies, I was hoping make will give me a hint about what's missing
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10:41 * Tene finally sleeps.
10:43 moritz_ tadzik: it will not
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10:45 tadzik darn
10:46 moritz_ go through the README, check 'em all
10:46 tadzik they have different names on my distro, that's the issue
10:46 tadzik I'll look carefully through it
10:59 TiMBuS ok i finally got off my lazy ass (then sat back down on it) and then wrote this: https://gist.github.com/860141
10:59 TiMBuS it is a more easier IO::Socket::INET
11:00 TiMBuS is this ok or did i mess it up
11:00 moritz_ TiMBuS: does it work? both with IPv4 and IPv6?
11:00 * moritz_ is really not up to judging socket related work
11:00 tadzik submethod BUILD { callsame; }
11:00 tadzik does it work as I expect it to?
11:00 moritz_ tadzik: huh?
11:00 TiMBuS dunno about ipv6 because parrot
11:00 TiMBuS tadzik, it should
11:01 moritz_ tadzik: what do you expect it to do?
11:01 moritz_ it's not a multi
11:01 moritz_ and the parent's submethod is not visible to you
11:01 moritz_ where should it redispatch to?
11:01 tadzik oh, it does!
11:01 tadzik it's the AFTERPARTY I was looking for
11:01 TiMBuS if you dont callsame you dont get default values
11:02 tadzik TiMBuS++
11:02 moritz_ BUT WHERE DOES IT DISPATCH TO?
11:02 TiMBuS Mu
11:02 TiMBuS which has BUILD
11:02 tadzik yeah. Actually, I was looking for something identical to Moose's BUILD
11:02 dalek 6model: 8c5e6a6 | jonathan++ | dotnet/runtime/Rakudo.Net.sln:
11:02 dalek 6model: Update to VS 2010.
11:02 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/8c5e6a6585
11:02 dalek 6model: 9bc822e | jonathan++ | dt-docs.txt:
11:02 dalek 6model: Add ducktables docs.
11:02 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/9bc822e8a6
11:02 dalek 6model: 1e5ee77 | jonathan++ | dotnet/runtime/Metamodel/SharedTable.cs:
11:02 dalek 6model: 32 bits should be enough for anyone.
11:02 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/1e5ee77eb8
11:02 dalek 6model: 26839e7 | jonathan++ | dotnet/runtime/Metamodel/SharedTable.cs:
11:02 dalek 6model: Implement ducktables.
11:02 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/26839e73ca
11:02 dalek 6model: 5912064 | jonathan++ | java/compiler/Makefile:
11:02 dalek 6model: Fix make test for Windows.
11:02 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/591206487c
11:02 moritz_ that seems so wrong
11:02 tadzik 32 bits should be enough for anyone. :)
11:03 jmm_ lol.
11:03 moritz_ (the BUILD redispatch, I mean)
11:03 tadzik moritz_: build?
11:03 moritz_ tadzik: yes
11:03 TiMBuS maybe rakudo does BUILD wrong? im not sure
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11:03 TiMBuS the spec is not solid enough
11:03 moritz_ agreed
11:05 TiMBuS i thiiink BUILDALL is meant to call all the composed classes BUILDs? but in rakudo it doesnt, it needs to chain like javas super()
11:06 tadzik yay, I can build the book
11:06 masak if I change $*OUT.output-line-separator, what would C<say ""> print?
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11:06 * moritz_ has no idea, and is scared of the answer
11:06 masak oh, S32/IO actually specs it.
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11:07 masak &say is affected.
11:07 masak S32/IO:1398
11:08 masak in Rakudo, the "\n" is currently hard-coded in &say
11:08 masak but there's no way to set $*OUT.output-line-separator, so it doesn't matter much.
11:10 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/488979/ # Perlfect!
11:11 TiMBuS masak, according to this thing here *points at parrots test dir* my class should work for ipv6
11:11 masak tadzik: woot!
11:11 masak TiMBuS: sorry, I feel a lack of context in what you just said...
11:12 tadzik MAINmazing!
11:12 masak SUBsetOPTIMAL! oh wait.
11:12 TiMBuS masak, the IO::Socket::INET class i gisted before. it shoudl work with ipv6
11:12 TiMBuS waaait a second
11:12 TiMBuS that was moritz_
11:12 masak ah.
11:13 moritz_ \o/
11:13 moritz_ TiMBuS: care to write it up as a patch and RT it? (or pull request)
11:13 TiMBuS i have confused you by getting you both confused
11:13 moritz_ I'll go to lunch rather soonish, and I'd hate it if it got lost somewhere
11:13 TiMBuS i guess i can do that
11:16 tadzik if I have an $a = "foo", can I run sub foo like $a->() or somehow, w/o eval?
11:17 moritz_ tadzik: subroutine calling by name is NYI
11:17 moritz_ it should work as ::('&foo').() or so
11:18 masak niecza: sub foo { say "OH HAI" }; foo; ::('&foo').()
11:18 tadzik oh, it's too ugly to use anyway :)
11:18 p6eval niecza v3-59-g8b27c3b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: JSON writer encountered value of type StringLiteral␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/JSYNC.pm6 line 0 (JSYNC to-json @ 0)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NAMOutput.pm6 line 15 (NAMOutput NAMOutput.run @ 5)␤  at
11:18 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaBackendDotnet.pm6 line…
11:18 masak tadzik: ugly both on the surface and inside :)
11:18 moritz_ tadzik: maybe a pir::findlex or so :-)
11:18 masak eeeew!
11:19 tadzik :P
11:19 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo { say "OH PIR" }; (Q:PIR { %r = find_lex '&foo' }).()
11:19 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«OH PIR␤»
11:19 masak o.O
11:19 moritz_ yes, I have an ugly mind
11:20 masak moritz_: I feel tempted to withdraw some karma from you right now... :P
11:20 moritz_ to my credit I have avoided an eval
11:20 masak *lol*
11:21 moritz_ rakudo: sub foo { say "OH PIR" }; callframe.my<&foo>.()
11:21 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«OH PIR␤»
11:21 moritz_ better?
11:21 masak lots.
11:21 moritz_ (though it has the disadvantage not to look in outer frames)
11:22 masak maybe lexical lookup should be an exposed action in the language.
11:22 moritz_ it is
11:22 moritz_ through ::()
11:23 masak right.
11:23 moritz_ and the MY psoeudopackage
11:26 masak I just remembered, many years ago, someone (I think it was moritz_) karma-punished me for doing this on the channel:
11:26 masak pugs: my $lang = "perl"; $lang++ for ^45565; say $lang
11:27 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«ruby␤»
11:27 masak ;)
11:27 flussence XD
11:27 masak with a slightly lower value of 45565, you can get 'pyth' as well.
11:28 masak quite a bit lower, actually.
11:28 tadzik oh wtf is that? :D
11:29 masak still a contentious topic, I see. :P
11:30 tadzik oh, I see
11:31 masak oh, you were wondering how it worked?
11:31 moritz_ http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2007-07-17#i_64556 earliest mention
11:31 tadzik aye
11:31 tadzik I underestimated then smartness of Str++ :)
11:31 masak yep, there's the -- :)
11:31 masak wow, that's 3.5 years ago.
11:32 tadzik http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2007-07-17#i_64543 I think you mean here
11:32 masak you see that it lead to some interesting feature discussion, too ;)
11:32 moritz_ masak: funny thing is, in 2009-11 you mentioned that as the first time you got negative karma on #perl6
11:33 moritz_ it seems to have had a lasting impression
11:33 tadzik rakudo: my $lang = "perl"; $lang++ for ^6762; say $lang # I like this one too
11:33 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«porn␤»
11:34 masak moritz_: hah. I wasn't aware I had mentioned it before. :)
11:34 masak yes, it's definitely one of my early memories of the channel. I guess I take negative karma seriously. :)
11:35 flussence hm, .comb is O(n²) for input size... I thought that was fixed a while ago
11:35 tadzik huh, I think there's something wrong about the book's build system
11:35 masak flussence: that's... awful. :(
11:35 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/488990/txt/
11:36 dalek 6model: 215ffc3 | jonathan++ | java/compiler/ (2 files):
11:36 dalek 6model: Add Jasmin JAR and license.
11:36 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/215ffc35f7
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11:43 tadzik is INIT nyi?
11:43 masak ...in...?
11:43 tadzik in Rakudo, sorry
11:43 masak nyi
11:43 tadzik shame
11:44 donri So I read 15 chapters of MoR yesterday
11:44 masak :D
11:49 tadzik :)
11:50 tadzik rakudo: class A::B {}; class A {} # somebody please fix this :(
11:50 p6eval rakudo 3680ac:  ( no output )
11:50 tadzik ...oh?
11:50 masak rakudo: class A::B {}; class A {}; say "alive"
11:50 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«alive␤»
11:50 masak probably only bites you if you have .pm files
11:51 tadzik yeah
11:51 tadzik well, I guess I'll just temporarily rename Panda to Zebra :>
11:51 masak and you can workaround it by doing class A { ... } before loading the .pm file with A::B in it.
11:51 tadzik hmm
11:53 tadzik I can put the uses in the class :)
11:53 masak or that.
11:53 masak "This class is use-ful."
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11:57 tadzik yay, I quite like the code Pies/Panda has become
11:57 tadzik unusual for the module managers I write :)
11:58 tadzik and panda takes only 4 seconds to start
12:01 dalek 6model: 7a3e9da | jonathan++ | java/compiler/ (4 files):
12:01 dalek 6model: A few little bits of infrastructure to get us started with making JASM, plus a stubbed out JST2JASM that'll need lots of filling out.
12:01 dalek 6model: review: https://github.com/jnthn/6model/commit/7a3e9da289
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12:26 mberends tadzik++ # Śliwka Nałęczowska from Czekoladowa Solidarność # I always thought Solidarity was a political party, now I know they make superb chocolates
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12:27 masak ooh, imagine forming a political party based on the solidarity of chocolate!
12:27 masak I think that might be a big success, if planned right.
12:28 mberends no, it would come to a  sticky end
12:28 masak :P
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12:35 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | http://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
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12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: f5e0d27 | jonathan++ | / (4 files):
12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: Break NQP meta-objects out into a separate file. This means that it won't be needed to load full NQP grammar/actions/compiler just to run pre-compiled output. This should also mean that an NQP pre-compiled program with classes won't have to pre-load anything.
12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f5e0d27ead
12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: c8f8081 | jonathan++ | / (7 files):
12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: Push break-out of the meta-objects into the bootstrap.
12:55 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c8f808157d
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13:32 tadzik mberends, masak: that's actually a fun fact about these chocolates :) They advertise themselves (the company, not the chocolates) as the "existing for half a century" company, probably not to be mistaken with the political party :)
13:33 tadzik I'm glad you like them, and I'm a bit jelly too :>
13:33 masak we're all a bit jelly :P
13:33 tadzik ;)
13:34 tadzik I have a feeling that English is a pun-oriented language
13:34 masak well, you know. optimize for pun.
13:34 tadzik . o O ( puns in Perl: my char $mander; )
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13:39 donri say .WHAT
13:40 flussence Moo
13:41 tadzik rakudo: given "what" { .say; .WHAT }
13:41 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«what␤»
13:43 flussence rakudo: WHAT <you>.say ?????!!!!!
13:43 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«you␤Stub code executed  in <anon> at line 22:/tmp/WgFRrZbZMV␤Null PMC access in type()␤  in 'WHAT' at line 786:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/WgFRrZbZMV␤»
13:43 donri rakudo: given class FourtyTwo {}.new { say .WHAT }
13:43 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ".new { say"␤»
13:43 donri rakudo: given class FourtyTwo {}.new: { say .WHAT }
13:44 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ".new: { sa"␤»
13:44 donri rakudo: given class FourtyTwo {}.new() { say .WHAT }
13:44 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ".new() { s"␤»
13:44 donri rakudo: given (class FourtyTwo {}).new() { say .WHAT }
13:44 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
13:44 tadzik *.WHAT
13:44 frettled left #perl6
13:44 tadzik or not
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13:47 donri rakudo: say .WHAT given "answer" but { method WHAT { 42 } }
13:47 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of has-scoped Method in a module; add our or my to install it in the lexpad or namespace␤()␤»
13:48 donri rakudo: say .WHAT given "answer" but method WHAT { 42 }
13:48 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of has-scoped Method in a module; add our or my to install it in the lexpad or namespace␤()␤»
13:48 donri i forgot, hows that work
13:48 moritz_ say .WHAT given "answer" but role { method WHAT { 42 } }
13:48 moritz_ rakudo: say .WHAT given "answer" but role { method WHAT { 42 } }
13:48 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«42␤»
13:48 donri :D
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: 01e36d5 | jonathan++ | / (4 files):
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: Start moving NQPMu and the native types into the setting. Need to do a temporary rename to avoid conflicts with the version in the pre-move compiler.
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/01e36d5733
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: 0af1138 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update the bootstrap to excise the old NQPMu that was in with the meta-objects file.
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0af113877f
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: 99d0cef | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: Revert the temporary renaming done while moving NQPMu.
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/99d0cef789
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: decd296 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap again to eliminate rename hack while moving NQPMu. This means it's now in the setting where it belongs, rather than part of the meta-objects library. It also means that no meta-object is used in the same compilation unit as it is defined, which unblocks various other things.
13:50 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/decd296408
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13:54 jmm_ what do you guys use in vim for perl6 ? for like syntax highligh or code completion .
13:54 Su-Shee the perl6 syntax file.
13:54 donri .g perl6.vim
13:54 phenny donri: http://m19s28.dyndns.org/ible​ch/stuff/pugs-util/perl6.vim
13:54 donri .g perl6.vim github
13:54 phenny donri: https://github.com/petdance/vim-perl/pull/41
13:55 Su-Shee that one it is.
13:55 jmm_ woot :)
13:55 jmm_ do you have code completion too ?
13:55 Su-Shee err.. no. ;)
13:55 Su-Shee unless it works with ctrl-p anyways. try it.
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13:56 flussence doesn't work with hyphenated identifiers though
13:56 nymacro left #perl6
13:56 jmm_ allright !
13:57 donri set isi+=-
13:57 moritz_ I think literal++ commented that it's not that easy
13:57 donri isk+=- too? :)
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13:59 moritz_ dunno
13:59 moritz_ just try it
13:59 flussence wfm
14:05 jmm_ umm color highlight works fine, but completion just for keywords.
14:06 tadzik dois this isi/isk fix the fancy-identifiers?
14:06 tadzik oh, I'm suprised there's a completion for keywords :P
14:07 jmm_ I don't understand what you said :\
14:07 jmm_ it would be nice to have completion on object's method.
14:07 donri that's impossible to get perfect with dynamic languages without executing the code
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14:08 jmm_ too  bad :\
14:09 jmm_ I've seen completion in netbeans editor( for java ) , it was really nice.
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14:09 donri yes, java is not as dynamic :)
14:09 donri you can do some omnicompletion for dynamic languages, but as i said you can't expect it to work perfectly in all situations
14:11 i221077 Perl6 is more static then other dynamic languages so it should allow decent completion
14:11 donri oh?
14:11 moritz_ i221077: that's a bold overgeneralization
14:11 i221077 is now known as pmurias
14:11 moritz_ i221077: Perl 6 allows type annotations, but doesn't force you to write any
14:11 donri even if there's truth to that it'd still be rather complicated to do without execution
14:11 moritz_ (gradual typing)
14:12 donri moritz_: it's not really just about static types though
14:12 pmurias moritz_: but a lot of stuff is lexical, so it's easier to infer things
14:12 donri e.g. you can do monkey patching
14:12 moritz_ so it only helps you if actually use these types
14:12 donri you can do lexically scoped imports etc etc ad nausium :D
14:13 moritz_ pmurias: at compile time, yes; with pure syntactic analysis, not so easily
14:13 flussence std is pretty good at that though
14:13 moritz_ at providing lists of available methods? that's new to me
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14:13 donri perl6.vim is already said to be mad slow for larger files
14:13 tadzik it'll aye
14:14 flussence it's clever enough to figure out when a thing has been declared and when it hasn't...
14:14 flussence std: sub xyz { }; xyz
14:14 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
14:14 flussence std: sub xyqqqqqqz { }; xyz
14:14 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'xyz' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
14:14 donri hm though i wonder if you could hook a proper non-vimscript parser to a vim ftype
14:14 flussence it must store a list of seen methods *somewhere*...
14:15 pmurias moritz_: why are we limited to pure syntactic analysis?
14:15 donri std: eval("sub xyz {}"); xyz
14:15 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'xyz' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
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14:15 moritz_ pmurias: because you don't want to write a full compiler in vimscript :-)
14:16 donri in the end eval can always mess anything up :P
14:16 moritz_ no
14:16 moritz_ for example eval can't install new lexicals
14:16 donri when I said dynamic languages are difficult to analyze from just syntax, i probably meant meta programming
14:16 pmurias moritz_: i don't want to write anything in vimscript
14:17 donri moritz_: ok so bad example but i bet you can do eval-like meta programming
14:17 plobsing left #perl6
14:17 flussence .oO( vimscript needs a decent framework like html has, so people don't have to write it manually )
14:17 moritz_ pmurias: vim autocompletion was our current topic. If you don't talk about the current topic, please let me know so that I can context-switch
14:17 donri .^add_method(<foo bar>.join("-"), ...)
14:17 donri try get a completer to understand that
14:17 tadzik imperlsibble :)
14:18 donri :D
14:18 donri worse, whether that code even runs might depend on conditionals etc etc
14:18 pmurias moritz_: can't vim call external processes?
14:19 moritz_ pmurias: it can; but then you'd have to reparse the code for every autocompletion
14:19 flussence the traditional way of doing it is to make ctags do all the parsing work and vim just reads the keyword list that outputs
14:20 donri yea, that works fine for statically defined terms
14:20 donri which is usually good enough
14:21 donri i wish perl6 had introspectable comments, like python docstrings
14:22 donri i suppose you can do it with roles, not as sugary syntactically though
14:22 flussence Perl 6 does, it's just that `perl6` doesn't
14:22 donri oh? :P
14:22 flussence #= syntax
14:22 donri oh, i thought that was just a pge thing
14:23 donri is that supposed to, eventually, work for say, class definitions?
14:23 moritz_ donri: S26 elaborates on that
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14:24 donri thanks
14:24 * moritz_ bemoans the lack of new MoR chapters
14:25 donri I read 15 chapters yesterday :)
14:26 donri haha, POD and Pod not the same thing
14:27 donri i suppose it's like how 'regex' in perl6 ≠ 'regular expressions'
14:27 moritz_ POD = the Perl 5 thing
14:27 moritz_ Pod = the Perl 6 thing
14:27 donri yea, reading s26
14:31 tadzik perl's odd documentation
14:31 flussence is there a Pod grammar yet?
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14:36 pmurias moritz_: i don't want to write anything in vimscripttadzik> perl's odd documentation
14:36 pmurias 15:31 < flussence> is there a Pod grammar yet?
14:36 pmurias sorry
14:36 pmurias 15:32 -!- porter235 [~porter235@CPE001a704e2936-CM001ac31529​0c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:36 pmurias moritz_: what's MoR?
14:37 masak pmurias: "Methods of Rationality"
14:37 masak phenny: google "Methods of Rationality"
14:37 masak !google "Methods of Rationality"
14:37 masak .google "Methods of Rationality"
14:37 masak oh well. worth a shot :)
14:37 moritz_ .g "Methods of Rationality"
14:37 phenny moritz_: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/1/Har​ry_Potter_and_the_Methods_of_Rationality
14:38 masak \o/
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14:55 masak people!
14:55 masak http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/​p5-find-the-longest-common-substring
14:56 moritz_ finally!
14:56 masak sorry about the delay :)
15:01 moritz_ I can't understand why matthias' solution is so fast
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15:02 moritz_ it uses lots of idioms that are slow in rakudo
15:02 moritz_ like gather/take
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15:02 moritz_ and [~], which is much slower than join ''
15:03 moritz_ I can't imagine that iteration over the Z result being fast either
15:03 moritz_ oh.
15:03 moritz_ masak: I think the 'next unless %offsetB.exists: $chr;
15:03 moritz_ very much optimizes for the case of no common substring
15:03 masak we have some theories here.
15:04 masak or, well, jnthn++ does.
15:04 moritz_ (which to me seems rather artifically constructed for long strings)
15:04 moritz_ do tell
15:04 masak for loops don't have a sink mode right now.
15:04 moritz_ one thing it does well: few scopes
15:04 moritz_ ie statement modifiers instead of statement + block
15:05 masak so while fox's solution with X is cool, it's definitely a killer when it comes to generating garbage for the GC.
15:05 masak I think everyone would have been much better off using while loops.
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15:06 jnthn For speed, not for code clensliness though.
15:06 moritz_ sure
15:06 jnthn But yes, the lack of proper sink is a killer for long for loops.
15:06 jnthn I only discovered that issue this weekend.
15:06 moritz_ but how does that make that one fast?
15:07 moritz_ it uses two for-loops
15:09 masak but the inner one is seldom run, as you say.
15:09 masak and when it is, it's often lots shorter.
15:10 masak if anyone feels like taking an alternative shot at doing statistics and then blogging about it, please feel free.
15:10 masak just be aware that it takes a long time, both the gathering of data, and the presentation.
15:11 jnthn Any further analysis that identifies what particular constructs are slow is, of course, intresting.
15:12 pyrimidine takadonet: pong
15:12 masak moritz_: your point about the 'next' line optimizing for the case of no common substring probably helps explain why the variance of matthias's solution is slightly larger than the rest. there's a difference between the Y and N runs.
15:12 masak reading the data is numbers bears that out.
15:12 * moritz_ can see that masak is going to have a difficult time announcing the winner
15:13 masak I'm glad we agree on that.
15:13 moritz_ everybody botched at least one submission, iirc
15:13 moritz_ colomon++ had exponential time in his first solution
15:13 masak yes, but I had designed for that.
15:13 masak I have a strategy which I hope will work.
15:13 moritz_ fox++ relied on all() in p3
15:14 moritz_ my p4 was quite bad, and I had a nasty error in p5
15:14 moritz_ matthias didn't have a p4 submission at all
15:14 moritz_ and Util++'s doesn't quite count either
15:14 masak right. matthias is completely out, and Util mostly so.
15:15 moritz_ ah, Util++ also made the same mistake in p3
15:15 * moritz_ doesn't know if correctness is an ultimate killer in evaluation
15:15 moritz_ (oh, and fox' p1 submission was also not quite correct)
15:16 masak correctness weighs fairly heavily, but is not all-or-nothing, I think.
15:16 colomon o/
15:16 masak colomon: \o
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15:17 * moritz_ should make some correctness/readability/clarity heat maps
15:17 moritz_ oh wait, that's masak's task :-)
15:17 masak :)
15:17 masak I just might.
15:18 sorear good * #perl6
15:18 masak sorear: \o
15:20 jnthn o/ sorear
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15:41 colomon So, I'm looking for suggestions on how to improve the benchmark graphs.  sorear++ suggested having the same vertical scale and/or a logarithmatic vertical scale.
15:42 colomon Having the same for all of them is actually impractical, because some take minutes and some take seconds.
15:42 colomon Should all the graphs go down to 0, though?  That would help make the scaling clearer, I think.
15:42 sorear I was thinking having all of them as % improvement relative to $FIXED_TIME
15:42 sorear so if there were no Rakudo changes, all the graphs would be horizontal lines at 1
15:42 colomon oooo, that's an interesting idea I hadn't considered.
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15:43 PerlJam sorear++  But what should be the start time?
15:43 sorear PerlJam: perhaps "the first release of R*"
15:44 PerlJam Hmm.  I was thinking the "birth" of rakudo-ng
15:44 PerlJam but first release of R* has a better psychological appeal I guess
15:46 colomon The first release of R* was July, right?  So that's just the time for the first run in the benchmarks.
15:46 PerlJam aye
15:47 colomon The only potential long-term problem with that idea is that in the future, some benchmarks may not work on earlier versions of Rakudo.
15:47 colomon but we could solve that by making the baseline for that benchmark the first one it does work on.
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16:11 moritz_ rakudo: say rx/a/.WHAT
16:11 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Regex()␤»
16:11 moritz_ where is class Regex defined?
16:11 moritz_ ah, in src/builtins/Regex.pir
16:12 moritz_ nqp: say((/foo/).WHAT)
16:12 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«"load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'NQPCORE.setting.pbc'␤current instr.: 'nqp;NQP;Compiler;_block35' pc 128323 (gen/nqp-grammar.pir:6209)␤»
16:13 jnthn hm :S
16:13 moritz_ recompiling now
16:14 moritz_ locally I get
16:14 jnthn ah, ok, it's not latest. :)
16:14 moritz_ Can only use get_what on a RakudoObject
16:14 jnthn That makes some sense.
16:14 moritz_ $ ./nqp -e 'say(pir::typeof(/foo/))'
16:14 moritz_ Regex;Regex
16:14 jnthn Regex::Regex isn't 6model-ized yet.
16:14 moritz_ os that the Regex HLL, class Regex?
16:14 moritz_ s/os/is/
16:14 jnthn No, just Regex namespace, class Regex
16:14 jnthn It probably can be shuffld over to 6model
16:15 * moritz_ has bad experiences with 6model-izing stuff :/
16:15 jnthn Match got quite some way.
16:15 moritz_ rakudo: say Regex::Regex
16:15 jnthn I'll pick that up again in a bit.
16:15 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Can not find sub Regex::Regex␤  in main program body at line 1␤»
16:15 moritz_ rakudo's Regex inherits from Method, not from Regex::Regex
16:15 * moritz_ confused
16:16 moritz_ nqp: say("alive")
16:16 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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16:18 jnthn moritz_: that makes sense
16:18 jnthn Regex::Regex is just a wrapper around a Parrot sub
16:18 moritz_ ok
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16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: 5b5b706 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add ops for setting/getting serialization context for an object.
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5b5b7064d5
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: c35442c | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: Pass repr along to pkg_create_mo correctly.
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c35442c255
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: 00ec5f3 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: Do initial meta-object instantiation via the serialization context builder.
16:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/00ec5f3b62
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16:36 KyleHa Is there a masak in the house?
16:36 * takadonet pokes masak
16:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: a3d104e | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
16:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: Twiddle to make roles work again. Kinda defers a tricky problem for later, mind...
16:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a3d104e84d
16:37 jnthn I'm in a house with a masak
16:37 * masak comes alive
16:37 masak KyleHa: oh hai
16:38 KyleHa masak! Thank you for answering my call!
16:38 masak no problemo.
16:38 masak how may I serve you?
16:38 KyleHa I just read your write-up of the p5 longest common string problem.
16:38 Trashlord joined #perl6
16:38 KyleHa I wanted to know how you made that awesome box plot of the result data.
16:39 masak ah :)
16:39 masak I used a program called Gnumeric.
16:39 KyleHa I think I've heard of Gnumeric.
16:39 masak I saved the graph I made to SVG, then I exported the SVG to PNG using Inkscape.
16:39 masak not sure the last step was needed.
16:40 masak it was moritz_++' suggestion to make a box plot.
16:40 KyleHa I've been a big fan of box plots for years, but I don't often see software that makes them.
16:41 KyleHa I wanted one last week, but I didn't want to write the code for it like last time.
16:41 KyleHa Thank you thank you masak.
16:42 PerlJam for some reason I missed the write of on p5
16:42 masak it's relatively recent.
16:42 PerlJam matthias++  :-)
16:42 masak KyleHa: glad to help :)
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16:52 masak TimToady: S03:957 -- "sufficiently large to contain all non-zero integer results (which for XOR is at most the size of the longer of the two buffers)" -- is this implying that all zeroes in the result are stripped away?
16:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: 7896584 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
16:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update the bootstrap; all this works (phew!)
16:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/78965848aa
16:55 PerlJam masak: I would think that passage really wants to mean that only prefix zeroes are stripped.
16:56 TimToady masak: it's trying to say that trailing 0's may be stripped
16:57 dakkar "trailing"? do you read numbers lsb-first? :)
16:57 TimToady the position of the bits is important, so leading 0's cannot be stripped
16:57 dakkar which means that I have no idea what I'm commenting on…
16:57 PerlJam languages suck  :)
16:57 * dakkar goes back to the cave
16:58 PerlJam just make sure you get your RTL or LTR correct and strip the appropriate zeroes  :)
16:58 dakkar ooh, buffer bitwise and, not number bitwise and
16:58 dakkar now it makes sense
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17:26 flussence (bah. vim's insistence on double-spacing sentences with `gq` is annoying.)
17:26 TimToady rakudo: class A {}; sub MAIN { say "ok" }
17:26 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«ok␤»
17:26 TimToady rakudo: class A; sub MAIN { say "ok" }
17:26 p6eval rakudo 3680ac:  ( no output )
17:26 TimToady that's a bug
17:27 TimToady flussence: not annoying to those of us who prefer double-spacing :)
17:29 * flussence blames html for making me prefer this way
17:31 masak it's in RT.
17:31 TimToady 'k
17:32 TimToady wanted to write an entry for http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Scripted_Main using the buggy form...
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17:35 shortcircuit Scripted_Main is going through a lot of churn right now, just trying to define what it's supposed to do.
17:36 shortcircuit Really, really, really busy at work right now, can't talk about it this second.
17:36 TimToady whatever it is, Perl 6 does it
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17:37 daxim http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_110
17:39 masak rakudo: say [min] 3, 6;
17:39 mberends rakudo: say min(3,6)
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17:39 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«3␤»
17:39 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«Unable to handle non-closure Ordering yet␤  in 'Any::min' at line 1561:CORE.setting␤  in 'min' at line 1871:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Ptp4HPx3zJ␤»
17:39 wood|EyE left #perl6
17:39 masak can I pls kill the &min function?
17:39 masak rakudo: say (3,6).min
17:39 p6eval rakudo 3680ac: OUTPUT«3␤»
17:40 masak alternatively, mberends is suggesting killing the first parameter of the &min function.
17:40 masak actually, I'm not even going to ask permission. it's wrong.
17:40 * moritz_ thinks we've had that discussion before.
17:41 masak our multi min( *@values, Ordering :$by )
17:41 masak how come we're running up against this problem in the first place?
17:41 masak 3, 6 should end up in @values, no?
17:41 * masak dives into Rakudo source
17:41 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Scripted_Main#Perl_6
17:42 daxim LUE means what?
17:42 TimToady lue: what does LUE mean?  :)
17:42 * daxim is enlightened
17:42 masak oh!
17:42 masak proto sub min($by, *@values) { @values.min($by); }
17:43 * masak submits rakudobug
17:43 masak Rakudo is not to spec, that's all.
17:44 * TimToady wonders why it's "by"...
17:44 TimToady oh, "by ordering" I guess
17:45 dakkar «@strings.min :by(*.length)» or however it's written?
17:45 TimToady std: *.length
17:45 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
17:45 TimToady hmm
17:46 TimToady should be *.chars or some such
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17:49 masak someone, I forget who, once sent to p6l a long list of suggestions for improved parameter names in the setting.
17:49 masak no action was ever taken on it.
17:49 masak it would be heroic and very much appreciated for someone to make that a personal project.
17:50 PerlJam was a ticket created on it?
17:50 _buno_ joined #perl6
17:50 masak no.
17:50 masak :(
17:50 masak if I find the email, I'll do that.
17:51 TimToady as long as "improved" doesn't just mean COBOLized...
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17:51 masak ISTR they were mostly, or at least partly, very sane suggestions.
17:52 masak the main point is that even the names of positional parameters matter a lot now that you can refer to them by name.
17:52 masak it wouldn't surprise me if the sender of that email had a Smalltalk background.
17:52 masak :)
17:52 TimToady sure, but there's something to be said for expecting infix operands to be named $x and $y
17:53 masak aye.
17:53 PerlJam you don't like $addend1 and $addend2 ?  ;)
17:53 TimToady .oO(subtrahend...)
17:53 masak I'd have guessed $lhs and $rhs.
17:53 tadzik jnthn: http://wklej.org/id/489187/ could you apply this to nqp? Fixes build under GNU make
17:54 TimToady what if you're programming in Hebrew or Arabic?
17:54 TimToady then left and right are reversed
17:54 moritz_ hugme: add tadzik to nqp
17:54 hugme moritz_: sorry, I don't know anything about project 'nqp'
17:54 TimToady never mind that lhs and rhs are rather Anglo-centric
17:54 jnthn tadzik: I thought moritz_++ already did that.
17:55 TimToady and what about people who don't have hands?
17:55 moritz_ jnthn: probably not in all branches
17:55 tadzik jnthn: http://wklej.org/id/489188/ also, this for ctmo branch
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17:55 jnthn tadzik: Gotta pack for airport now, and can't seem to be able to give out commit bits on nqp
17:55 tadzik jnthn: no worries
17:56 PerlJam tadzik: moving two lines that are commented out fixes bugs?
17:56 jnthn Will apply when I get back, if nobody beats me to it.
17:56 tadzik PerlJam: yes
17:56 moritz_ jnthn: how liberal should nqp commit policy be? as mu? or as nqp-rx?
17:56 jnthn (gnu make)--
17:56 PerlJam wow.
17:56 tadzik gmake doesn't like it if one of the multi-line lines is a comment
17:56 jnthn moritz_: Think pmichaud_ said it should be quite liberal.
17:56 tadzik for then it doesn't really end with \
17:56 jnthn moritz_: nqp-rx is more liberal than Rakudo, fwiw.
17:57 moritz_ I know
17:57 jnthn We could go for nqp-rx level
17:57 * jnthn packs for airport
17:57 moritz_ tadzik: you should have commit access.
17:57 tadzik moritz_: thanks; does ctmo build for you?
17:57 moritz_ tadzik: dunno, master seems to work
17:57 tadzik oh, so I'm obliged to ocassionally fix stuff now :)
17:58 moritz_ I didn't change anything, you already had it
17:58 moritz_ nqp-rx and nqp share the same team on github
17:58 tadzik yeah, I now noticed I have the ssh url in .git/config
17:58 moritz_ tadzik: oh, I have an uncommitted fix for ctmo in my repo
17:59 moritz_ which I forgot to push, moritz_--
17:59 dalek nqp/ctmo: 1f3568a | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
17:59 dalek nqp/ctmo: make GNU make happy again
17:59 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1f3568a10d
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18:00 tadzik oh, seems that master is fixed
18:00 tadzik ah, there we go :) I had 37 unpulled commits, seems I was not on master at the beginning
18:00 tadzik I _really_ need that git branch name in zsh prompt
18:01 tadzik oh, I get errors anyway
18:01 tadzik maybe that's something I can fix :>
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18:02 PerlJam tadzik: putting the git info as part of the prompt has been a tremendous help to me.
18:02 tadzik moritz_: http://wklej.org/id/489197/ don't you get something similar?
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18:04 masak just for everyone's information, colomon has presented statistics which show that my statistics in the p5 blog post are quite one-sided.
18:04 masak it now again looks as if colomon's is the faster algorithm, just not for the kind of data I chose.
18:04 PerlJam masak: sure they are ... they're all from the masak side of the universe :)
18:05 PerlJam what changed?
18:05 masak new data, that's all.
18:05 masak I'll let colomon blog his findings.
18:05 * masak --> plane
18:05 TimToady o/
18:05 masak left #perl6
18:06 PerlJam blah!  He was too quick for me to tell him to have a safe flight
18:06 * jnthn --> flight too :)
18:06 TimToady o/
18:06 PerlJam masak: have a safe and enjoyable flight!
18:06 PerlJam jnthn: have a safe and enjoyable flight!
18:06 PerlJam :)
18:06 jnthn Thanks!
18:06 jnthn o/
18:07 * TimToady --> shower
18:07 tadzik fly safe!
18:08 TimToady .oO(flying in the shower doesn't sound safe...)
18:09 tadzik oh, everyone can be safe in a shower w/o flying, hence my wishes
18:09 colomon I would like to clarify that I have no general proof my p5 solution is faster.  I just found a different set of test data where mine is faster than matthias's.  I haven't timed any of the others yet, and I have a potential optimization for matthias's that may get it back in the running again, too.
18:10 PerlJam colomon: yeah, even reading masak's description of his test data it seemed very ... simple
18:10 colomon PerlJam: The thing is that in masak's sample data, the only characters that overlap between the two strings are the ones in the section that matches.
18:10 PerlJam aye
18:10 colomon So for most of the test, the inner loop is quickly skipped.
18:11 PerlJam he didn't adequately test the "many failures" or "many successes"
18:11 colomon I just fed it some normal English text instead, and suddenly it performs like you'd expect code that has a gather in an inner loop -- slow.
18:13 colomon The gather doesn't actually have to be in the inner loop, so I'm going to try removing it and see how that helps things.
18:14 jedai left #perl6
18:14 colomon ooo, #phasers in 46?
18:16 colomon or is everyone else either in the air or in the shower?
18:17 Util Yes, #phasers in ... 44 now
18:17 PerlJam I'm hovering about .3 meters off of the floor right now
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18:17 PerlJam (of course, I'm in a chair, so I don't know if you'd call that "in the air" :)
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18:21 dalek star: 00d0d01 | Util++ | build/binary/darwin_dmg/ (6 files):
18:21 dalek star: Add code to build a binary .dmg package for OS X.
18:21 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/00d0d015c9
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18:53 dalek star: fd840ed | Util++ | build/binary/darwin_dmg/package_darwin_dmg.pl:
18:53 dalek star: Remove stray line of invalid code
18:53 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/fd840ede08
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19:58 lichtkind moritz_: friday 6pm is allright?
20:00 sjohnson perlpals
20:05 lichtkind hai sjohnson
20:05 sjohnson hi
20:06 lichtkind sjohnson: may i ask whats your selchoosen task?
20:06 dalek star: 936462e | Util++ | build/binary/darwin_dmg/package_darwin_dmg.pl:
20:06 dalek star: Add Camelia icon to the packaged contents
20:06 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/936462ea49
20:09 sjohnson what's a selchoosen task?
20:09 wallberg hi all! I wanted to have a chat with masak but just now saw that he was leaving for a plane. Does anyone know if he has moved from Uppsala?
20:09 sjohnson the only task i have is to stay out of the way of developers while they work on p6 :)
20:10 tadzik wallberg: he's on the plane from AMS to Copenhagen I think
20:10 tadzik at least he was still in AMS few hs ago
20:12 wallberg just as things started to look up for Uppsala.pm, the interwebs tells me he might have moved to some other town in Sweden
20:13 wallberg anyways, I sent him an email and will hopefully know shortly
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20:18 tadzik yeah, he
20:18 tadzik 's now someplace else iirc
20:18 Util A preview R* Darwin binary is ready for inspection - http://s3.datasaw.com/Rakudo_​Star_2011-01_experiment_3.dmg
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20:40 * mberends <- back home from seeing off the Swedish delegation at AMS. Their scheduled takeoff time was 10 minutes ago.
20:41 mberends wallberg: masak++ has moved to Lund, near where jnthn++ lives, and he has also started $work at the same $company
20:42 takadonet mberends: sweet
20:43 mberends their hacking synergy seems very fruitful :)
20:43 wallberg yup: http://www.edument.se/konsulter/
20:44 wallberg good for them, bad for Uppsala.pm ;-)
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21:03 wallberg have there been any attempts yet to create p6 modules for Tk, Wx, GTK, Qt or some other GUI frameworks?
21:04 takadonet wallberg: do not believe so
21:04 Su-Shee yes, Tene bound the enlightement lib thingie for example.
21:05 Su-Shee for Gtk, GIR is the way to go anyways which simplifies things greatly.
21:07 flussence is GIR what they call their XML stuff these days?
21:08 tadzik wallberg: tk can be used via blizkost I believe
21:08 flussence last time I used it it was still called glade...
21:08 tadzik wallberg: gui toolkits are tricky, for NCI does not yet support callbacks
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21:11 wallberg ahh I did not know about blizkost. do I understand it correctly that it basically enables p5 modules in p6 programs?
21:11 tadzik aye
21:13 wallberg as for GIR, I think there is more info here: http://live.gnome.org/GObjectIntrospection
21:13 wallberg alas I am too stupid to turn that into something useful
21:16 wallberg yeah, seems to be a way of passing info between a runtime and the GTK library via XML/GIR... or something
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21:26 Tene tadzik: I was able to do callbacks just fine; I just had to write a little shim in C.
21:26 Tene Soon that should be movable into parrot itself, as I should be able to write the shim with llvm.
21:27 tadzik Tene: care to show the code?
21:27 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/ZyeCO.jpg # I actually lol'd
21:28 Su-Shee flussence: no, GIR isnt even remotely Glade related.
21:28 sjohnson i don't get the flowerpot reference
21:29 sjohnson or metaphor for html
21:29 sjohnson whatever it is
21:29 Su-Shee GIR is how you expose (looking from the C library's viewpoint) the symbols. The "other side" just reads the (indeed) resulting XML instead of pulling in C stuff.
21:30 tadzik sjohnson: I think it's relating to people calling html a programming language. But the the LaTeX one is a bit wrong too
21:30 Su-Shee if you want to see it in action, look at Seed, I think it makes heavy use of it.
21:32 Tene tadzik: https://github.com/tene/parrot-elem​entary/blob/master/evas_cb_helper.c
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21:36 mberends (lol) what do you think a Perl cartoon would have said (and it's a pity there not a Perl one anyway)? I would think "It seems to cover the topics but I have no idea how it manages to do that with so few apparently unrelated words"
21:36 sjohnson "this looks like a religious text to me"
21:37 mberends heh
21:37 mberends bless you too
21:37 tadzik "I have no idea what it does, but even the gurus can't summarize that in half the page, thus you must be wrong or something"
21:37 tadzik or "But you're basically glueing the well-known theories" :)
21:38 tadzik I tend to say that usually when you program, you split the big problem into a number of smaller ones until the smaller ones are trivial. In Perl, you split the problem into the smaller ones until there's a CPAN module for each of them )
21:38 sjohnson "what the heck is this underscore variable?"
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21:41 mberends "Please re-submit your text, this copy seems to be full of corrupt characters"
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23:02 * jnthn made it home safely o/
23:02 jnthn And I can vouch that masak at least made it safely to within 2km of his home. :)
23:05 mberends \o/
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23:44 lichtkind \o/
23:44 colomon \o/
23:48 * jnthn gets some rest...back to $dayjob tomorrow.
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