Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-07

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 TimToady sorear: the spec only mentions int64, not Int64
00:07 dalek niecza: f95532e | sorear++ | / (5 files):
00:07 dalek niecza: [mmd] Implement bindability checks
00:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f95532ef87
00:07 dalek niecza: 70fa410 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
00:07 dalek niecza: [mmd] Implement redispatching to candidate list
00:07 TimToady but I view storage types as primarily constrained values of a larger type
00:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/70fa4104e8
00:08 sorear TimToady: this was prompted by thundergnat looking for :rotate
00:08 sorear I'm not sure how :rotate is expected to discover the type size
00:08 sorear on +> / +<
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00:10 TimToady I suppose we could do :rotate(64)
00:12 TimToady or we could somehow mark ops whose unboxed types are known at compile time
00:13 TimToady that might take some type inference though
00:13 TimToady bbl &
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00:34 Tene TimToady: any thoughts on sorear's assertion that *&foo in a signature is unimplementable?
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00:34 sorear *&foo appears to be a relic from the Perl5 '&' signature
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02:48 takadonet1 hey
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02:49 takadonet1 anyone know what the equivalent is for Perl 5 $/  in Perl 6?
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02:58 sorear takadonet1: S28:182
03:01 takadonet1 sorear: looks NYI :(
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03:08 tylercurtis std: $/
03:08 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
03:08 tylercurtis ah, right.
03:20 takadonet1 sorear: thx
03:20 takadonet1 night all
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03:21 JimmyZ TimToady:  ping
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03:43 sorear rakudo: multi foo(Int $a, Int $b) { say 1; nextsame }; multi foo(Any $a, Int $b) { say 2 }; multi foo(Int $a, Any $b) { say 3 }; foo(5,6);
03:43 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1␤Null PMC access in clone()␤  in 'foo' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/M1X43YJANG␤»
03:43 sorear What?
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05:58 sorear today's .NET pet peeve: arrays use .Length while lists use .Count for no obvious reason
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06:14 dalek niecza: fb61e2b | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
06:14 dalek niecza: [mmd] Implement candidate sorting
06:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fb61e2be54
06:14 dalek niecza: 2dd3fec | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
06:14 dalek niecza: [mmd] Implement tie checking
06:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2dd3fec317
06:14 sorear 'multi method' is now fully functional
06:15 sorear tomorrow I'll work on 'multi sub'
06:16 sorear also tomorrow will cache dispatch lists
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07:51 miso2217 perl6: say 3;
07:51 p6eval pugs, rakudo 4bf132, niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«3␤»
07:51 moritz good morning
07:52 miso2217 perl6: if (1){say 3;}
07:52 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected ";}"␤    expecting "_", fraction, exponent, term postfix, operator, ":", "," or "}"␤    at /tmp/egQTdujPvN line 1, column 13␤»
07:52 p6eval ..rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block at line 22, near ""␤»
07:52 p6eval ..niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Any()Missing block at /tmp/bxdGIZlF1n line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mif (1){say 3;}[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
07:52 miso2217 perl6: if (1) {say 3;}
07:52 p6eval pugs, rakudo 4bf132, niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«3␤»
07:52 moritz perl6: if 1 { say 3 } # no need for those parens
07:53 p6eval pugs, rakudo 4bf132, niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«3␤»
07:55 JimmyZ std: if (1){say 3;}
07:55 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Missing block at /tmp/zM2w3TW8cL line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mif (1){say 3;}[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 119m␤»
07:56 moritz if( is parsed as a function call
07:56 moritz thing{...} is parsed as a postcirumfix
07:56 JimmyZ and if ( ?
07:56 moritz JimmyZ: as a conditional
07:56 moritz an 'if', where the '(' is a circumfix
07:57 JimmyZ so if (1){ ... } ?
07:57 moritz (which is usually a no--op
07:57 moritz JimmyZ: that's parsed as  if  (1).postcircumfix:<{ }>( ... }
07:58 moritz and then there's no block left for the if
07:58 moritz which is why STD complains about missing block
07:58 miso2217 It was somwhat surpsising as I always used the if (1){ form, the error message is somewhat not too clear. Should be somewhere in the doc that the space before the { is needed, I think
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07:58 miso2217 Always used in perl5 of course
07:58 moritz miso2217: the spec is not user-level documentation. It's in the spec, but not very explicit
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07:59 moritz we really need to have user-level documentation that explains such stuff
08:00 JimmyZ std: if (10){} { say 'hi'; }
08:00 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
08:00 moritz it will be a run time error of course
08:00 JimmyZ std: if (10){say 'hi'} { say 'hi'; }
08:00 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
08:00 moritz but it's valid syntax
08:00 miso2217 Yes of course, it is but as there is not yet a user level documentation yet I checked the specs.
08:01 miso2217 perl6: if (10){say 'hi1'} { say 'hi2'; }
08:01 moritz miso2217: true. But adding user-level docs to the spec is the wrong fix
08:01 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«hi1␤»
08:01 p6eval ..niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«hi1␤Unhandled exception: Cannot use hash access on an object of type Num␤  at /tmp/6U8fM8nLma line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1277 (CORE C535_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1278 (CORE module-CORE @
08:01 moritz and there is some doc, just incomplete
08:01 p6eval ..39)␤  at /home/p…
08:01 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«hi1␤*** Odd number of elements found where hash expected: VInt 10␤    at /tmp/X42di0Ts0J line 1, column 4-20␤»
08:05 JimmyZ so, the right things is
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08:05 JimmyZ rakudo: if (1){ say 3;} {}
08:05 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
08:05 moritz miso2217: https://github.com/perl6/book/issues/53 I'v submitted a bug report against the book in progress, so that we don't forget it
08:06 JimmyZ that's ugly
08:07 moritz JimmyZ: it's a known bug in rakudo that hash-indexing a string is not an error
08:08 miso2217 I don't really get it, what is the if (1){ say 3;} {} form suposed to do? Call the {say 3;} code block on the (1) list and evaluat that as a bool?
08:08 JimmyZ also a std bug?
08:09 moritz miso2217: the { say 3; } is parsed as a hash index
08:09 moritz miso2217: just like in %hash{ $key }
08:09 moritz JimmyZ: nope. STD doesn't actuall run the code, just parses it
08:09 moritz JimmyZ: so it can't know it's an illegal operation
08:11 jnthn morning o/
08:11 moritz \o
08:11 JimmyZ good morning
08:11 JimmyZ jnthn:  where are you now? sweden ?
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08:12 jnthn JimmyZ: yes
08:13 miso2217 moritz: so it thries to evaluate (1) as a hash, ok, it's clearer now, thx.
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08:19 JimmyZ jnthn, I just got the link. http://conference.perlchina.org/bjpw2011/
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08:25 jnthn JimmyZ: Ah, OK. One day in June.
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09:04 jaffa4 hi
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09:36 pmurias phenny: tell sorear can we drop log from the unit in nam?
09:36 phenny pmurias: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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09:51 miso2217 hello, I have two versions of rakudo, rakudo-star-2011.01 and the latest trunk from git. I have a smoll test script which I execute using rakudo-star-2011.01/perl6 ent it works. But if I try with the latest trunk I have an error mesasge: PARROT VM: Could not load bytecodeCould not load oplib `perl6_ops'. This is not really a serious idssue as I only copied the modules directory from rakudo star into the latest rakudo from git. The real problem is that
09:51 miso2217 when after this I try to execute my script with the perl6 in rakudo-star I get a segfault. Any ideas?
09:54 moritz miso2217: have separate install locations for both versions. Always run 'make install'.
10:00 miso2217 moritz: what do you mean by "have separate install locations for both versions"? does the 'make install' command try to write comewhere else than the original rakudo directory? I downloaded both vesions in two separate directories "~/TEMP/rakudo-star-2011.01" and "~/TEMP/rakudo" and I think i run make install in both of them. But I did not specify any other install location as I tough I was only writing to the original directories.
10:01 moritz miso2217: how did you configure the rakudos?
10:03 moritz miso2217: if you configure the current dev version with 'perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot', it will then install into the parrot_install subdirectory
10:04 moritz miso2217: if you do that, and don't have the other perl6 executable in $PATH, you should be safe
10:04 miso2217 I run: perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot in both directories
10:05 miso2217 I'll check my $PATH
10:10 miso2217 I have only ~/TEMP/rakudo/perl6 and ~/TEMP/rakudo-star-2011.01/perl6 none of them is in the $PATH
10:11 moritz where did the star install to?
10:14 miso2217 in the star directory only: ~/TEMP/rakudo-star-2011.01/, at least this where it generated the perl6 executable ant the parrot-3.0.0 directory
10:14 moritz that's where it generated it, but that's not where it installed it
10:17 miso2217 ~/TEMP/rakudo-star-2011.01/install/
10:17 moritz then I don't see how the installations could interact :(
10:20 miso2217 Neither me, i'm checking if the star installation didnt put the parot exe somewhere else, but I dont think so.
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10:23 miso2217 And it did not :( strange. Re-running make install in the star directory solves the problem.
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12:02 takadonet morning all
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12:08 mingzhi echo "fff"
12:09 mingzhi what is this???
12:09 moritz not Perl 6.
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12:12 tadzik good day everyone
12:14 mingzhi Is there anyone know how to write a shell like in the unix?
12:14 moritz mingzhi: which language do you want to write it in?
12:15 mingzhi C or C++ with python
12:15 moritz then you're off topic here
12:15 moritz but as a small hint: there are already many open source shells in C
12:15 moritz look at their code for inspiration
12:15 mingzhi what one?
12:16 moritz http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/dash/
12:17 mingzhi thanks a lot
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12:36 Sharon is it legal to use a "powered by perl6" with the logo of perl6 on a perl6 powered website?
12:36 Sharon are there any restrictions?
12:37 JimmyZ you have site  powerd by perl6 ?
12:37 moritz Sharon: Larry said that you can use the Perl 6 logo fairly liberally with anything connected to Perl 6
12:37 moritz https://github.com/perl6/mu/raw/master/misc/camelia.txt
12:38 moritz The Camelia image is a trademark of Larry Wall, and permission is
12:38 moritz granted for non-exclusive use to label anything related to Perl 6,
12:38 moritz provided the image is labeled as a trademark when used as a main logo
12:38 moritz on a page.
12:38 Sharon I just plan to use it on the footer on the page just to advertise perl6
12:39 moritz since advertising perl6 is surely "related to Perl 6", that's OK :-)
12:39 Sharon ok great :)
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12:44 tadzik Sharon: how are you using Perl 6 to power your site, out of curiosity?
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13:01 jaffa4 hi
13:01 jaffa4 What is the state of Perl 6?
13:02 moritz it's in development, as you well know
13:03 jaffa4 you measure its state somehow
13:03 jaffa4 I guess
13:03 jaffa4 e.g. completion state
13:03 jaffa4 in %
13:03 moritz no
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13:03 jaffa4 how many features left?
13:03 moritz since we don't know how the "final" (whatever that means) thing looks, we can't know how close we are
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13:03 tadzik aleph 0
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13:04 jaffa4 How come you do not know?
13:04 moritz jaffa4: counting features would need some kind of quantization, which doesn't exist
13:04 JimmyZ jaffa4:  use it before ask :)
13:05 moritz jaffa4: the spec is still changing, in reponse to implementation concerns and user feedback
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13:05 jaffa4 Are there any serious users?
13:05 * moritz is serious
13:06 jaffa4 with $$$
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13:06 moritz some of us earn dollars, yes
13:06 moritz though I'm more of a EUR person
13:06 jaffa4 with Perl 6?
13:07 jaffa4 Is there a debugger for Perl 6 now?
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13:17 tadzik not that I know of
13:17 tadzik oh, there is one for yapsi
13:17 moritz does it actually work?
13:17 tadzik dunno
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13:24 mathw One of the stated purposes for yapsi is the development of a time-travelling debugger
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13:31 shortcircuit is now known as mikemol
13:41 moritz that doesn't imply that it works now :-)
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13:49 pmurias sorear: ping
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14:17 jaffa4 time travelling debugger?
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14:21 mathw jaffa4: yes, I believe the idea is that you can rewind the program state to any point in its execution history.
14:22 jaffa4 Interesting concept
14:22 jaffa4 could be useful
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14:33 sorear jaffa4: ?
14:33 phenny sorear: 09:36Z <pmurias> tell sorear can we drop log from the unit in nam?
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14:38 pmurias sorear: hi
14:38 sorear pmurias: currently log is what is used to handle run-time stash merging.  There is no easy way to get rid of it
14:38 pmurias it's described as  Mostly unused vestige of last stash system
14:39 pmurias sorear: how is it used?
14:40 pmurias sorear: does it make sense for be to write the loading for the current nam format for the hoop optimiser? or will it change soon?
14:41 sorear pmurias: each entry is converted into code which is added to the BOOT sub
14:41 sorear pmurias: er, if there's no loader, how do you plan to use it?
14:43 pmurias i could wait for the new format
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14:52 sorear new format design is a ways off.. weeks, at least
14:52 sorear I think tonight I'll try to document the stash system
14:53 sorear perl6: class Doubler { multi method double($x) { $x * 2 }; multi method double(Str $x) { $x ~ $x } }; say Doubler.double(35); say Doubler.double("abc")
14:53 p6eval rakudo 4bf132, niecza v4-26-g2dd3fec: OUTPUT«70␤abcabc␤»
14:53 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«3535␤abcabc␤»
14:54 moritz pugs really faked types
14:54 pmurias sorear: converting the nam into a typed haskell data structure might even help to specify the format more rigorously
14:55 sorear moritz: I'll say!
14:55 * sorear out
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15:25 uvtc Python recently had their Pycon conference, and many of the talks were videotaped.
15:25 uvtc I wasn't at the conference, and it was very cool to watch many of them.
15:25 uvtc Learning some new things as well as putting faces with names.
15:25 uvtc Would be great if http://perl6.org/community/ had some links to videos of Perl 6 talks.
15:32 TimToady +1
15:33 jaffa4 What is multi method?
15:35 TimToady having multiple methods of the same name that are differentiated by the types of their arguments to pick the best one to call
15:36 TimToady operator overloading is a specific instance of it
15:37 jaffa4 Is it like overloading functions in C++?
15:38 TimToady a little, except it's dispatched at run time, not decided in advance like in C++
15:38 TimToady (well, we can decide some parts of it at compile time too, like what the candidate list is.)
15:39 TimToady short answer, just like C++, except correct :)
15:39 TimToady we also discourage people from overloading operators for unrelated purposes, unlike C++
15:39 TimToady instead we encourage people to use an appropriate unicode operator
15:40 TimToady you won't see us using < for IO frinstnce
15:40 TimToady or + for concat
15:41 TimToady (though we did steal p5's . operator for method calls, so switched concat to ~)
15:42 frooh_ left #perl6
15:43 jaffa4 ~ from D?
15:43 moritz .oO( we could have used -> for concat :-))
15:44 uvtc '~' looks looks stringy ... like you're weaving strings together
15:44 TimToady no, we just picked ~ because it was available, not too hard to type, works as a prefix, and looks like a bit of string :)
15:45 frew joined #perl6
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15:45 * TimToady is not really familiar with D
15:45 TimToady so think of it as convergent evolution :)
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16:11 uvtc What is the current purpose of the github perl6/mu project? Are bits of it gradually being teased out and put into their own dedicated github perl6/foo projects?
16:13 moritz uvtc: mu are those parts of the former pugs repo that don't have enough activity to warrant extracting things into separate repos (yet)
16:15 moritz in fact the one file showing non-zero activity during the last months was dalek-conf.json :-)
16:16 uvtc moritz: ah, the irc bot
16:16 moritz uvtc: right
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16:36 tadzik how does one install Rakudo on windows these days?
16:36 tadzik not neceserilly Star, rather a New Rakudo
16:37 moritz just like on linux
16:37 moritz you build it
16:38 tadzik with some specific compiler, msvc or something?
16:38 * tadzik is completely green about windows
16:38 moritz msvc or cygwin or mingw, iirc
16:39 jnthn MSVC is most actively tested on, I expect
16:40 tadzik jnthn: with MSVC the makefile and everything Just Works?
16:44 jnthn tadzik: I build with ActiveState Perl and MSVC and it associated tool chain, and it all Just Works.
16:44 jnthn The makefile works with nmake (the MS make implementation)
16:44 tadzik nice, thanks
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16:54 tadzik wow, cygwin can even install Rakudo and Rakudo Star, shame it's 201007
16:57 benabik Ug, Cygwin.  I used to use it a lot but decided a VirtualBox Debian or Ubuntu install was just easier.
17:00 tadzik I'm in a "Virtualbox Windows" situation :P
17:01 benabik Details, details.
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17:15 tadzik IAL. My signicant other: „Rakudo, that's this «way of the something»?”
17:17 M_o_C joined #perl6
17:18 PerlJam no, it's the way of whatever  ;)
17:18 tadzik ;)
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17:25 masak joined #perl6
17:25 masak greetings, #perl6 folks.
17:25 jnthn o/ maska
17:25 jnthn gah
17:25 jnthn masak
17:25 masak :)
17:25 moritz \o
17:26 jnthn .oO( it was a typo, but I coulda claimed accidental accusative case... )
17:26 masak j'accuse!
17:26 jnthn :P
17:28 tadzik hi maska!
17:30 masak :P
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17:30 masak in my mother tongue, sv:'maska' means en:'stitch'.
17:31 tadzik in my mother tongue it's "mask"
17:31 tadzik phenny: "maska"?
17:31 phenny tadzik: "Mask" (sl to en, translate.google.com)
17:31 masak tadzik: was just going to say that :)
17:31 masak tadzik: or 'hood', right?
17:31 tadzik not really, if that's the hood I think about. Oh, the car hood?
17:31 masak dunno.
17:31 tadzik Not the Robin Hood :)
17:32 masak I'm doing Google Translate research :)
17:32 masak many things that cover/conceal, it seems.
17:32 masak mask/hood/vizor/guise.
17:34 jnthn nom time, then back to nqp :)
17:35 tadzik I thought nqp is a prerequisite for nom :)
17:35 wallberg left #perl6
17:35 jnthn :P
17:35 jnthn Last night, it turned out fixing Parrot's register allocator was a prerequisite for nqp :/
17:35 jnthn Thankfully, I haz a viable patch.
17:36 masak wow, niecza has multi methods.
17:36 masak jnthn++ # viable patch
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17:56 masak backlog: yes, the debugger for Yapsi works. it's called Tardis. it travels in time.
17:57 masak that said, it's limited by what Yapsi can run, which is... limited.
17:59 masak jaffa4: hi! \o
18:00 masak jaffa4: when you ask about the degree of completion of Perl 6, what is it that you really have in mind? do you plan to start trying it out when it hits 100%? ;)
18:01 masak if I told you "Perl 6 is at 65%" without providing a source for that number, would that be sufficient?
18:01 masak I'm not trying to be insolent, just wondering what you're going to use the percentage for.
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18:03 jaffa4 masaK: hi
18:03 jaffa4 I have to think about the answer
18:04 jaffa4 masak
18:04 masak that's fine.
18:04 jaffa4 I have already tried it couple of times
18:04 jaffa4 by the way
18:04 masak I know you have. :)
18:04 masak but that only means that you should be able to estimate what's there already and what isn't yet. :)
18:05 PerlJam 85% of statistics are made-up on the spot though
18:05 jaffa4 there is another project
18:05 jaffa4 they make a C++ compiler
18:05 arnsholt masak: But which estimator should he use? Maximum Likehood, Maximum A Posteriori? I don't know anymore!
18:05 jaffa4 there I could see what features of C++ compiler are implemented
18:05 arnsholt (Says the man up to his ears in statistical gobbledy-gook)
18:05 jaffa4 when I asked that is what I ahd in my mind
18:06 masak arnsholt: crystall ball, preferably.
18:06 * moritz already explained the difference about frozen spec
18:06 jaffa4 look here what I mean: http://clang.llvm.org/cxx_status.html
18:06 masak jaffa4: oh, ok. well, the closest thing we have is the spec (in its current state), and the amount we implement of that.
18:07 masak jaffa4: BUT (as moritz  points out), the spec is still changing in response to the implementation digging further into Perl 6.
18:07 jaffa4 ok
18:07 arnsholt masak: Indeed. I wish I had a CRF crystal ball. Would save me enormous amounts of time waiting for numerical approximations to converge ^_^
18:07 masak jaffa4: and (perhaps more important), we *expect* it to do so.
18:07 jaffa4 you can still have a snapshot
18:07 masak jaffa4: we have lots of snapshots :)
18:07 masak it's called git :)
18:07 jaffa4 a snapshot of completion
18:08 masak jaffa4: point is, we're currently more interested in making a good spec than having a frozen spec.
18:08 masak at least that's true for some parts of the spec. some are already quite stable.
18:08 masak if you want a Perl 6 that doesn't change much at all, I recommend traveling about 30 years into the future.
18:09 jaffa4 that is not a problem if it is changing
18:09 jaffa4 I just would like to see what is its state now
18:09 masak if you're fine with it not changing: welcome! we're having fun using Perl 6 already, and you're free to join! :)
18:09 masak there are a few drawbacks:
18:09 masak * documentation is sometimes difficult and/or incomplete
18:10 masak * blog posts grow old quickly, and aren't always kept up-to-date
18:10 masak * sometimes the only way to learn something is to ask here
18:10 masak #perl6 is definitely the prime source of knowledge at this point. not some book or online tutorial.
18:11 masak that said, the Advent Calendar is very good, and probably very up-to-date.
18:11 moritz advantage: you can blog multiple times about the same topic
18:11 masak :P
18:11 masak one of the biggest advantages for me is that I get to be a (small) part of creating an awesome language.
18:11 jaffa4 What Advent Calendar?
18:12 masak http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/
18:12 masak (enjoy!)
18:12 * PerlJam boggles that someone is on #perl6 and missed the advent calendar
18:12 PerlJam (but I guess that's normal because it is a seaonal thing after all)
18:14 jaffa4 good idea, the advent calendar
18:15 takadonet people blog about perl6? cool
18:15 takadonet :)
18:15 tadzik :)
18:15 tadzik I almost didn't catch it on time :)
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18:18 jaffa4 has anyone made a compiler for parrot?
18:18 jaffa4 has anyone made a compiler for parrot bytecode?
18:19 masak yes.
18:19 jaffa4 last time I checked something like that
18:19 jaffa4 it did not work
18:19 jaffa4 I wonder anything has changed since then.
18:20 benabik Compiler for bytecode?  Like bytecode to i386, or language to bytecode?
18:20 jaffa4 bytecode to assemly or machine language or to executable
18:21 benabik I don't think there's a program that does that currently.  There's a JIT prototype, but nothing functional at the moment.  It does allow you to make a small executable wrapper (ref: "perl6" binary in Rakudo)
18:22 tylercurtis Wait. Was there Perl 6 advent calendar last year?
18:22 * tylercurtis somehow forget to read it, I think.
18:22 flussence_ yep
18:23 masak tylercurtis: happy reading! :D
18:27 tadzik (:
18:28 Eevee left #perl6
18:28 tylercurtis masak: thanks. I'm sure I will enjoy reading them eventually.
18:28 jaffa4 ok, bye all
18:30 masak bye, jaffa4 \o
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19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: ad4b814 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make native types declared in the setting be lexically scoped.
19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ad4b8140fa
19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: 89440ca | jonathan++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: Bump Parrot revision to get lexical register allocation fix.
19:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/89440ca7ca
19:43 fhelmberger left #perl6
19:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: 9a54b8e | jonathan++ | src/Regex.pir:
19:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: Remove debugging comment accidentally left in.
19:45 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9a54b8eb70
19:45 sjohnson so, whats new in the perl 6 world
19:48 tadzik sjohnson \o/
19:48 sjohnson yo tadzik
19:48 * PerlJam is waiting for more Perl 6 proposals for GSoC
19:50 tadzik sjohnson: you don't have this long face unicodeart somewhere near, do you? :)
19:51 aesop left #perl6
19:52 sjohnson i do!
19:52 sjohnson different varieties too
19:52 sjohnson ( `ー´)
19:52 sjohnson fat face
19:52 sjohnson (´ー` )
19:52 sjohnson worried fat face
19:52 sjohnson ( ° ー°)
19:52 sjohnson fat face after realizing there is porn on the internet
19:53 dalek errors: 7e7bf7c | moritz++ | notes.pod:
19:53 dalek errors: add notes on checking for specific excpetions
19:53 dalek errors: review: https://github.com/perl6/errors/commit/7e7bf7cf3d
19:56 masak sjohnson: I always thought it was the face of a pug :>
19:59 stkowski joined #perl6
20:00 sjohnson well, interpretation is in the eye of the beholder
20:00 sjohnson mr wall thought it was a sleeping cat, which is cute
20:01 frew joined #perl6
20:01 masak frew! \o/
20:02 frew ...?
20:02 PerlJam Stop saying "mr wall".   It always takes me a second to figure out who you're talking about ;)
20:02 pyrimidine Pink Floyd's Mr. Wall
20:03 * PerlJam wonders how the bricks got there though
20:03 PerlJam Did he eat them?
20:03 BenPoole joined #perl6
20:03 * TimToady is usually just known as "that guy cowering over in the corner"
20:03 BenPoole left #perl6
20:04 masak TimToady: because of the bricks?
20:04 * pyrimidine is trying to think of a finish to the line "We don't need no ..." w/o starting a language war
20:04 kanishka left #perl6
20:05 PerlJam pyrimidine: we're fairly language-agnostic here ...  I mean they're all just subsets of Perl 6 anyway  ;)
20:05 mj41 left #perl6
20:05 PerlJam s/subset/slang/
20:05 pyrimidine PerlJam: very true
20:08 plainhao left #perl6
20:10 sjohnson Larold Wallstonbury
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20:47 testin hola?
20:48 jnthn cerveza?
20:48 testin adios..may the force be with youQ
20:48 testin cerveza  porfavor
20:48 testin left #perl6
20:50 jnthn Well, that's my Spanish practice for the year. :)
20:53 tadzik "a mi tambien", he said, laughing in the face of grammar rules
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21:01 pmurias masak: re frozen spec, even if we had a frozen spec, it wouldn't help estimating completion much
21:02 masak no, probably not.
21:02 masak freezing the spec, IMO, is a solution looking for a problem.
21:03 tadzik no need for freezing the spec w/o freezing the compiler behaviour
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21:18 pmurias why are people interested so much when 100% feature completeness will happen?
21:19 tadzik they have a different attitude, I can understand that
21:23 masak easiest to think of this in terms of early adopters vs late adopters, perhaps.
21:24 masak asking for 100% feature completeness is a late-adopter question.
21:26 Guest51323 joined #perl6
21:28 masak rakudo: my @a = ""; @a = @a X~ "foo", "bar"; say @a.perl
21:28 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«["foo", "bar"]␤»
21:28 masak rakudo: my @a = ""; @a X~= "foo", "bar"; say @a.perl
21:28 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[""]␤»
21:29 masak rakudo: my @a = ""; @a X~= ("foo", "bar"); say @a.perl
21:29 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[""]␤»
21:29 masak bug?
21:30 pmurias masak: but 100% feature completeness isn't important for production readiness, things like library support and performance are much more important
21:31 masak that's another thing. people want something, but they think that something is called "100% completeness".
21:31 pmurias according to google g++ isn't 100% complete
21:34 pmurias google meaing stuff found by a search  not some offical statement from the company ;)
21:34 proller left #perl6
21:34 pmurias * meaning
21:35 Guest51323 is now known as Khisanth
21:37 Eevee I don't think "100% complete" means the same to you and them
21:37 Eevee I suspect a lot of people asking when it's "done" just mean "when can I do all the things you've promised"
21:37 masak that's a good point.
21:38 masak maybe never. we've promised so many crazy things.
21:38 jnthn We've delivered quite a few of them though :)
21:38 icwiener left #perl6
21:38 masak yeah.
21:38 jnthn Though with quite a few still go to :)
21:44 masak but looking good!
21:44 masak S09 up next, with luck.
21:44 masak I still believe S09 will be an important one for showing off Perl 6 from the good side.
21:45 aesop it'll be done when it's done - lwall
21:48 masak and that goes for any piece of software. regardless of what deadlines or rules mere mortals come up with.
21:50 Eevee on the bright side, everyone who's bothered that it's not "done" can only be bothered because they want to use it  8)
21:52 kaare_ left #perl6
21:54 dalek niecza: 9f14024 | pmurias++ | hoopl/n (2 files):
21:54 dalek niecza: [hoopl] started of loading nam opcodes
21:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9f1402438b
21:54 dalek niecza: 7d6f610 | pmurias++ | hoopl/nam.hs:
21:54 dalek niecza: [hoopl] loads all opcodes in "say 1"
21:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7d6f610cdc
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22:08 masak and we should be saying "we're working on it as fast as we can. help us or step aside." ;)
22:08 ymasory left #perl6
22:10 masak today's cute little script: this piece of code generates all the possible strings that match /<[hm]> <[ea]> [nk|n|nn] [ing|ell|all]/: https://gist.github.com/908829
22:12 masak in a way, it could be seen as running the regex "in reverse", spitting out all possible matching strings rather than accepting a string and saying if it matched or not.
22:12 cognominal_ jnthn, trying to build the current ctmo branch with --gen-parrot and got :  Checking out Parrot RELEASE_3_2_0-100-g7e9553d via git... error: pathspec 'RELEASE_3_2_0-100-g7e9553d' did not match any file(s) known to git. Command failed (status 256): git checkout RELEASE_3_2_0-100-g7e9553d
22:12 flussence_ .oO(quantum computer regex engine!)
22:13 masak with this strategy, we'd run into some depth-first problems with quantifiers... but most other things would work fine.
22:13 jaffa4 left #perl6
22:14 masak it should be possible to find a lazier formulation of lines 12..14. suggestions welcome.
22:16 Su-Shee left #perl6
22:16 masak rakudo: my @a = "foo", "bar"; my @b = "baz", "quux"; .say for [X~] "", @a, @b
22:16 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
22:16 masak rakudo: my @a = "foo", "bar"; my @b = "baz", "quux"; .say for [X~] "", [@a], [@b]
22:16 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
22:17 masak oh well.
22:17 masak 'night, #perl6
22:17 masak left #perl6
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22:29 TimToady niecza: my @a = ""; @a [X~]= ("foo", "bar"); say @a.perl
22:30 p6eval niecza v4-28-g7d6f610: OUTPUT«["foo", "bar"]␤»
22:30 TimToady \o/
22:37 thundergnat joined #perl6
22:39 thundergnat rakudo: our multi sub infix:«op»( $a, $b, :$foo, :$bar ) { .say for $a, $b, $foo, $bar }; infix:«op»( 45,3,:foo);
22:39 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &infix:«op»␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rBdw0eLNPE␤»
22:39 thundergnat Arg.
22:39 thundergnat rakudo: our multi sub infix:«op»( $a, $b, :$foo, :$bar ) { .say for $a, $b, $foo, $bar }; infix:<op>( 45,3,:foo);
22:39 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«45␤3␤Bool::True␤Any()␤»
22:41 thundergnat sigh. Is there any other way to quote infix sub names? Rakudo apparently doesn't like guillemot quotes when searching for infix subs.
22:43 thundergnat Makes it extremely difficult to use alternate calling conventions for infix:«+>»( ){ } among others...
22:45 thundergnat rakudo: my $INTSIZE = (4294967297.Int == 1) ?? 32 !! 64; $INTSIZE.say;
22:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«64␤»
22:46 dayangkun_ joined #perl6
22:46 thundergnat ^^ ugly hack to determine native int size.
22:52 awoodland left #perl6
22:53 flussence_ rakudo: say max (1..128).grep({ ('0b1'~'0' x $^i - 2).Int.sign == 1 })
22:53 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«64␤»
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23:05 thundergnat Anyway, I wrote the logic to implement :rotate and :unsigned for bit shift operators. It works correctly under 32 and 64 bit linux and Windows. Gist here: https://gist.github.com/908965
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