Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-11

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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03:35 diakopter interesting!
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03:36 sorear diakopter: hi
03:36 sorear what's so interesting?
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06:47 moritz miso2217_: thanks for the effort, but that's really a contrived example. Any real-world application of this would involve splitting on a comma
06:48 moritz miso2217_: contrived examples are easy to find - it's real-world examples that I'm after
06:48 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
06:49 moritz miso2217_: also minimal quantifiers (*?, +? etc.) are special-cased in that they do a certain amount of backtracking even inside :ratchet (otherwise they would always match the minimum count, and be fairly useless), so they don't make a good example
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07:05 masak lol hi from the course!
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07:06 tadzik hi
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07:07 masak apparently 'Jan Novak' applied for this course but didn't show up :P
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07:37 moritz how's the course?
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08:02 masak promising so far.
08:04 masak the concepts are very language-agnostic, so I'm hoping to be able to apply these things to my Perl 6 coding as well.
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08:05 moritz what's the topic?
08:08 masak the whole course is about DDD and CQRS. today we're talking about bounded contexts and aggregates.
08:09 masak both are devilishly simple concepts, but they apply to everything else in the course, so it's important to understand them well.
08:10 masak things are a bit 'emperor's new clothes'-y sometimes, in that things sound like bland advice of the type "make sure you separate concepts that don't belong together". but on the other hand, when you go out into the Real World and look at business code, that's exactly what people tend not to do.
08:12 moritz the point is teaching good techniques to do in practice what you preach
08:12 masak aye.
08:13 masak what's positive about DDD and CQRS is that getting the language right is actually a big part of it. so a Perl person like me fits right in. :)
08:13 * moritz never heard those two abbreviations before
08:14 masak I hadn't either, until I started my new job in January.
08:15 masak best way I can describe it is this: for a long time I thought if I just understood Patterns, I'd level up from just a general understanding of OO and architecture.
08:15 masak but patterns aren't really the next level. Domain-Driven Design is.
08:16 moritz what do you mean by "Patterns"? sounds like an overloaded term to me
08:18 * moritz really shouldn't distract masak++ from his course
08:18 masak I mean Design Patterns, as in the Gang of Four book.
08:18 masak it's ok, we're having a break now.
08:18 moritz oh, I never "believed" in them
08:19 moritz given that in Perl, some of them are just two lines or so
08:19 masak they have some valid points. but they're simply that, patterns.
08:19 moritz I always wondered why they made such a big fuzz
08:19 masak and yes, some patterns in some languages go away in other languages.
08:20 masak others, like Interpreter, are important even in Perl 6. I believe both PGE and nqp-rx use Interpreter.
08:22 * masak </pause>
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08:26 miso2217 moritz: I can't think about any real world example where backtracking would be needed beside performance. I'll try to find some ideas on google.
08:30 moritz miso2217: I think that the example of the word substring duplication is a good one, it just needs to brought into a shape where the backtracking actually works
08:30 moritz erm, is needed
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08:30 moritz something like anchoring it, and adding a .* to the front or so
08:30 mathw I read an interesting thing once which said that you can consider design patterns to be patches for missing features in your programming language
08:30 mathw This is why some of them are trivial in some languages, because that's a language which already has that feature
08:31 moritz mathw: I guess that's true to a certain extent
08:31 mathw yeah to a certaine xtent
08:31 mathw I wouldn't say it applies to all patterns
08:31 moritz mathw: other design patterns are simply formalized experience from solving a certain class of problems
08:31 mathw And I do tend to think they're overrated in general
08:31 mathw I've got a colleague who thinks the Visitor Pattern is absolutely awesome
08:32 mathw Whereas I think it exposes all the things that are pooey about virtual method calls
08:32 mathw And his justification for it being awesome seems to stop somewhere around 'but it's in the book!'
08:33 Khisanth anything that is in a book is awesome?
08:33 moritz :-)
08:33 moritz mathw: you should write a different book, and point to that :-)
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08:51 mathw moritz: maybe I will
08:52 mathw 'mathw's little book of programming'
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08:52 moritz mathw's non-bullshit book of non-bullshit programming
08:53 mathw that's a better title
08:53 mathw I like that
08:53 mathw it would need to have code fragments in C++, Perl 5, Perl 6 and Haskell at least
08:54 moritz .oO( Anti-Patterns Observed From Anti-Programmers )
08:54 moritz that would be a different book though
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08:55 Su-Shee peter norvig has written a nice article about how 16 of the 24 DP are obsolete in Lisp.
08:55 moritz sounds like fun :-)
09:01 arnsholt Su-Shee: I have a friend who rants about DP all being work-arounds for not having proper lambdas =)
09:02 tadzik DP?
09:02 moritz Design Patterns
09:03 tadzik oh, 16 of the 24, I see
09:03 tadzik misread that
09:04 Su-Shee I'm also very hm not critical but let's say suspicious of design pattern (most of them, at least). So I read critiques carefully.
09:04 mathw arnsholt: a lot of crappy programming structure is down to a lack of lambdas IMO
09:05 arnsholt There's that as well
09:05 arnsholt That's probably the thing that annoys me the most when working in Java. I can't use lambdas and everything that comes with it
09:05 arnsholt map and grep for example
09:05 Su-Shee "Ruby Design Pattern" is very nice because it shows how to break several of them in a nice, rubyish way. (which basically applies to perl 5&6 as well.)
09:06 mathw arnsholt: annoys me in C++ as well. I really need a new compiler which supports C++0x lambdas.
09:06 moritz arnsholt: what really annoys me is the design bloat in libraries of languages that don't have closures
09:06 moritz or no pointers to routines at all
09:07 arnsholt Yeah, that's annoying as well. Java can do closures with anonymous inner classes, but it's a bit of a hack
09:07 moritz you can't just install a callback, you need to implement the MyCallbackableForSpecificPurpose interface
09:07 moritz and instantiate an object
09:07 moritz and then pass that around
09:09 arnsholt Indeed
09:10 mathw yeah
09:10 mathw and C++ makes you define an entire class for a functor (until C++0x, anyway)
09:10 mathw I suspect I will use STL algorithms a lot more when I can define the functor in place
09:14 moritz it's a bit curious that the STL relies on callbacks, and it's from a language that doesn't necessarily make them easy
09:14 moritz (yet)
09:15 mathw yeah it seemed like the library design begged for a language feature which wasn't implemented yet
09:16 mathw std::for_each is a real pain to use without lambdas
09:16 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/rkdkZ3L4X0 line 1:␤------> [32m:for_each [33m⏏[31mis a real pain to use without lambdas[0m␤    expecting any of:␤     bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    statement modifier loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01
09:16 p6eval ..120m␤»
09:16 mathw woops, sorry bot :)
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09:16 woosley hello *, perl6
09:16 woosley what dose key word augment  in class definition mean?
09:17 moritz woosley: it means "add to an existing class"
09:17 tadzik that you're to modify an existing class, rather than creating new
09:17 moritz http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/augment
09:18 miso2217 I would like to write the perl6 highlighting definition file for kate/kwrite/KDevelop. Any ideas on this? Is there a way to use STD.pm for this to generate part of the highlighting definitions automatically or do I need to go tho all manual way? May be here is a way to reuse the existing vim definition file?
09:18 woosley moritz: LoL, looks like you know that my native language is no english
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09:19 moritz woosley: not mine either :-)
09:19 TiMBuS hey moritz, did you end up rakudobugging that thing i found yesterday?
09:19 moritz TiMBuS: nope, I only rakudobugged the (my $ || my $) thing
09:20 TiMBuS oh
09:20 moritz miso2217: I don't really know, but I suspect it will be more work to emit something from STD than to do it manually
09:20 moritz (except extracting keywords maybe)
09:21 moritz miso2217: STD is intended as an exact parser, and keeps lots of information around, and then does conditional parsing based on that information. You don't want that for a syntax hilighter
09:21 moritz those are all about cheating in a clever way :-)
09:21 TiMBuS what was it again?
09:21 TiMBuS rakudo: my $f = Match.new; say $f.clone;
09:21 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«␤»
09:21 TiMBuS no its gotta contain something
09:21 moritz that's why we have IRC logs
09:22 moritz :-)
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09:23 woosley moritz: What's being hacking in the Perl6 world right now?
09:24 moritz woosley: jnthn works on the new meta object model for rakudo, I'm working on a spec for error objects
09:24 moritz woosley: tadzik is hacking the module installer, and applied for a GSoC project to implement a Pod6 parser
09:25 moritz sorear is hacking niezca
09:25 moritz takadonet is working on his bioperl modules (iirc)
09:25 TiMBuS rakudo: my $f = 'a' ~~ /$<foo>='a'/; say $f.clone
09:25 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
09:26 woosley I think I saw a Pod6 parser on CPAN?
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09:27 moritz yep, but that's in perl 5, and not integrated into rakudo, and implements an older spec
09:27 moritz thing is, you are supposed to be able to access documentation of objects through the object itself
09:28 moritz so the compiler needs to understand the doc syntax, and attach the documenation to the classes
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09:30 woosley So at this time , this parser will be written in Perl6
09:30 moritz right
09:30 woosley Is this happening in the Rakudo repository?
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09:33 moritz it will, at least partially
09:33 moritz (assuming his project is funded)
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09:36 masak mathw: sounds like something MJD has said in some blog post.
09:36 masak or someone.
09:36 masak "Design patterns are missing language features."
09:36 moritz MJD is always a good bet when attributing witty (and sometimes a bit biting) programming quotes :-)
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09:40 mathw :)
09:40 masak ah, here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/06/ar​e-design-patterns-how-languages-evolve.html
09:43 masak ah, and that one says Paul Graham said it too. I'm not surprised.
09:45 mathw I followed the link to the c2.com wiki page
09:45 mathw the argument about the Visitor Pattern is quite enlightening
09:45 mathw it finally makes me realise what I dislike about it so much
09:45 mathw some part of my brain which already knew a language with multimethod dispatch must've been saying 'this is unnecessary crap'
09:45 mathw right from the first time I encountered it
09:46 kaare_ "It will ultimately be why perl will fall away slowly (slow because languages never die quickly)" (from the comments) :-)
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10:15 mathw The more I read this stuff the more I think I really should learn Common Lisp
10:15 mathw but the syntax has always put me off
10:15 moritz same here :-)
10:15 moritz that's why Perl 6 is like CL, but with a syntax :-)
10:17 mathw lol there is that
10:18 moritz the point is just that easy macros *require* an uniform syntax
10:19 moritz so either you sacrifice macroability or readability
10:19 mathw very, very good point
10:19 moritz both options suck
10:19 mathw when your only syntax is S-expressions, it's easy to define new macros
10:19 moritz lips folks neglect syntax, we neglect macros
10:19 moritz just a matter of opinions
10:26 mathw everything's really just a pile of compromises
10:27 mathw the question is, which compromises are you willing to make?
10:27 mathw This is why it's so valuable to learn more than one language and be willing to employ more than one language
10:27 mathw different compromises lead to different problems being solvable with different difficulty
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10:28 moritz that's a very universal truth, far outside the realm of software
10:29 moritz and with that I'm off to lunch :-)
10:36 mathw :)
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11:22 masak mathw: the syntax of Common Lisp puts you off... and yet you went ahead and taught yourself Lojban? :P
11:24 masak I think I've moved beyond being put off by Lisp's parentheses. the turning point for me was when I started reading really well-indented code.
11:27 masak the indentation guides the eye, and one can basically trust it and ignore the parens.
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12:41 takadonet morning all
12:41 moritz o/
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12:46 Tene http://23andme.com/ is currently running a $0 sale, with a year commitment to their $9/mo update service.  $108 is very reasonable.  I've found my results from the service pretty fascinating.
12:46 mathw phenny: tell masak yes, I did. Lojban isn't full of parentheses!
12:46 phenny mathw: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
12:47 moritz Tene: is that the genetic sequencing service?
12:47 Tene phenny: tell masak currently big sale on http://23andme.com/
12:47 phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
12:47 Tene moritz: Kind of.  They identify 1M SNPs, which are one specific type of variation (single substitution of a base pair)
12:48 Tene There's a general estimate that there are about 10M SNPs across humans globally.
12:49 Tene 23andme has reports for specific SNPs, drug response, disease risk, etc.  They also give you access to the raw data, to do further research yourself.  Look at http://snpedia.com/index.php/SNPedia for examples and links to research that references specific SNPs.
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12:50 Tene http://www.snpedia.com/index.php/Rs4680 is always my favorite example (I'm AA/Met Met)
12:51 Tene moritz: it won't give you a full sequence of your entire DNA, but it gives you a pretty useful subset of common significant variations we've identified.
12:52 * moritz wonders if he should give his wife such a set for Eastern
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12:52 Tene They also let you opt-in to let them keep your sample on file, so they can re-run it on newer equipment, when they update.
12:52 Tene It's a saliva sample, so no needles or blood or anything scary.
12:56 Tene The "update service" is just giving you access to new reports they add, whether from new research, or old.  Looks like they added a report on skin cancer a couple of days ago, for example, but if I wanted to follow the research myself, I could.  It would just be a lot more work.
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12:58 tadzik someone is writing Email::MIME: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/56041​28/does-a-perl-6-module-for-rakudo-exist​-to-parse-mimes/5604479#comment-6401430
12:59 moritz tadzik: sounds more like "it takes too long, so I won't"
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13:02 takadonet tadzik:  I looked at the p5 version of the module and was too much work..... for the time I have
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13:39 perplexa rakudo: let me confuse you
13:39 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &you␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/OyQM_kBpSn␤»
13:39 perplexa hmm
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13:41 isBEKaml so it picked 'you' out?
13:42 tadzik it's the last one
13:42 tadzik it could declare the previous subs
13:42 isBEKaml yo tadzik!
13:42 isBEKaml read the whole sentence. :P
13:46 tadzik yo isBEKaml!
13:46 tadzik isBEKaml: yeah, I noticed the pun
13:47 isBEKaml tadzik: how goes thee? systemas-eco? (sorry if my speech is slurred ;)
13:48 tadzik isBEKaml: mips assembly atm
13:48 tadzik :|
13:48 isBEKaml tadzik: at school? and assembly?
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13:52 tadzik isBEKaml: yeah, a project for a university
13:52 tadzik I suck at this, and debugging is ridiculous
13:52 tadzik now it throws a runtime exception on writing 2 bytes to a stack
13:53 isBEKaml tadzik: I know. Been there, done that. :( Debugging really sucks, so we usually wound up rewriting every one of our programs. :/
13:58 tadzik isBEKaml: there is a slurp() sub, like P6's slurp. When I use it once, it's ok. On the second launch, it fails as I said
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14:04 isBEKaml tadzik: Oh, can't help you there, mate - though I'd have liked to. :(
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14:11 isBEKaml DOE notice that vimperl6 syntax highlighter goes crazy after lines with odd number of quotes (') ?
14:11 isBEKaml *DAE
14:12 isBEKaml For eg, Yapsi.pm#L785
14:13 isBEKaml https://github.com/masak/yapsi​/blob/master/lib/Yapsi.pm#L785
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14:14 isBEKaml My workaround was to insert another quote within a comment on that line. :|
14:15 moritz I know that all too well
14:15 isBEKaml moritz: you lost the dangler! :)
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14:16 isBEKaml moritz: did you have any other workaround than what I did?
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14:19 moritz isBEKaml: open bug report on the github issue tracker :-)
14:19 isBEKaml moritz: that's what I was about to do. Thought of asking it here first. :)
14:20 isBEKaml moritz: Oh, and a good opportunity to use github issues 2.0!
14:20 moritz :-)
14:21 isBEKaml petdance, right/
14:22 isBEKaml or is that maintained by someone other than petdance?
14:22 moritz I think petdance
14:22 moritz there's a link from perl6.org/whatever/ or so
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14:28 isBEKaml moritz: done. :)
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15:07 flussence_ bah, tryrakudo's broken again. I think I've got a pretty good idea for making it stay up though...
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16:41 * TimToady is not going to remove the indirect object syntax for various reasons.  It resonates with other uses of colon.  It decreases paren noise and increases formatting options for well-known method names like "new".  Unlike in p5, it's not ambiguous.
16:42 TimToady and I don't buy slippery slope arguments, especially "doctor it hurts when I do this" arguments
16:42 TheMartianGeek joined #perl6
16:42 * TimToady goes to take out his frustrations on his house  :)
16:44 * moritz observes a house shaking in the far distance
16:44 pyrimidine I personally don't have a problem with it in p6, just not in p5
16:44 PerlJam moritz: you've got good eyesight!
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16:46 pyrimidine moritz: so, acc to TimToady, rakudo doesn't have that correct?
16:46 PerlJam pyrimidine: rakudo doesn't have what?
16:46 pyrimidine rakudo: class Foo {}; my $x = new Foo;
16:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at line 22, near ";"␤»
16:47 pyrimidine PerlJam: indirect object syntax
16:47 moritz pyrimidine: that's not indirect object syntax in p6
16:47 moritz pyrimidine: that still requires a colon after the invocant. And no, NYI
16:47 PerlJam pyrimidine: it does, but it's makred with a colon
16:48 pyrimidine ah
16:48 PerlJam er, s/makred/marked/
16:48 sorear long line of code:
16:48 sorear another long line of code;
16:48 sorear # this is my only problem with IOS
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17:04 isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my $x = new Foo; #empty constructors, anyone?
17:04 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at line 22, near "; #empty c"␤»
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17:05 sorear class Foo { }; my Foo $x .= new;
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17:06 isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my Foo $x .= new;
17:06 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
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17:06 isBEKaml hmm, so I don't need those `unsightly` braces.
17:07 sorear yes you do
17:07 sorear without the braces it means something completely different
17:07 isBEKaml rakudo: class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say;
17:07 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Foo.new()␤»
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17:07 isBEKaml sorear: ^^
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17:08 sorear class Foo; my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say means class Foo { my Foo $x .= new; $x.perl.say }
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17:08 sorear so if you have any package-scope declarations after class Foo; they'll go into the class
17:08 * isBEKaml headslaps!
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17:10 isBEKaml the key phrase was "package scope declaration". Right, headslap! :/
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17:21 flussence_ .oO( freenode's "excess flood" logic is counterproductive... )
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18:02 jaffa4 is there reflection in Perl6?
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18:07 arnsholt jaffa4: That depends a bit on what you mean, but there is plenty of run-time introspection of attributes and whatnot
18:07 arnsholt (I'm no expert on the details though)
18:09 isBEKaml jaffa4: jnthn++ wrote an article on that some time back. MOP, I think.
18:09 isBEKaml Let me dig up that link for you ...
18:17 jaffa4 ok
18:17 jaffa4 I just wonder how far they have got
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18:21 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^HOW.perl.say;
18:21 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«too many positional arguments: 2 passed, 1 expected␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/pD02nb2G1A␤»
18:21 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^methods.perl.say;
18:21 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ...
18:21 p6eval ..}, { …
18:21 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.^methods(:local).join(",").perl.say;
18:21 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
18:21 p6eval ..OUTPUT«"perl,pred,succ,WHICH,Str,Bridge,Int,Rat​,Num,sign,gcd,ACCEPTS,Real,Bool,Complex,reals,isN​aN,abs,exp,ln,sqrt,roots,floor,ceiling,truncate,r​ound,cis,unpolar,rand,sin,asin,cos,acos,tan,atan,​sec,asec,cosec,acosec,cotan,acotan,sinh,asinh,cos​h,acosh,tanh,atanh,sech,asech,cosech,acosech,c…
18:22 isBEKaml jaffa4: ^^ that was one way
18:22 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.HOW.methods(:local).join(",").perl.say;
18:22 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«too few positional arguments: 1 passed, 2 (or more) expected␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/4dd1OoFPcY␤»
18:22 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.HOW.methods(Int).join(",").perl.say;
18:22 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
18:22 p6eval ..OUTPUT«"perl,pred,succ,WHICH,Str,Bridge,Int,Rat​,Num,sign,gcd,ACCEPTS,Real,Bool,Complex,reals,isN​aN,abs,exp,ln,sqrt,roots,floor,ceiling,truncate,r​ound,cis,unpolar,rand,sin,asin,cos,acos,tan,atan,​sec,asec,cosec,acosec,cotan,acotan,sinh,asinh,cos​h,acosh,tanh,atanh,sech,asech,cosech,acosech,c…
18:23 isBEKaml that's another.
18:24 isBEKaml rakudo: my $x = 42; $x.WHAT.perl.say;
18:24 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Int␤»
18:24 isBEKaml so you know it's an Int.
18:24 isBEKaml for more look at S12(I think)
18:24 jaffa4 rakudo: join.WHAT.perl.say
18:24 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Str␤»
18:24 isBEKaml while I'm still searching for the link... ;)
18:25 tadzik oh, what?
18:25 tadzik rakudo: join.perl.say
18:25 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«""␤»
18:25 tadzik mhm
18:25 moritz $x.^methods also works
18:26 isBEKaml er, join takes a blank?
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18:26 isBEKaml rakudo: join.perl.say; # shouldn't rakudo cop out?
18:26 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«""␤»
18:26 jaffa4 what is the response?
18:26 jaffa4 I cannot read it
18:26 isBEKaml jaffa4: you don't have an unicode enabled irc client?
18:27 isBEKaml what irc client are you using/
18:27 jaffa4 kvirc
18:27 isBEKaml oh, dunno about that. most of use here use xterm+irssi (for unicode) or simply xchat.
18:27 moritz jaffa4: try the online irc logs, maybe your browser displays it correctly
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18:35 jaffa4 ok
18:39 isBEKaml jaffa4: http://use.perl.org/~Jonath​anWorthington/journal/36958
18:39 isBEKaml anyone still use use.perl.org? and it isn't even indexed on google search.. :/
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18:40 isBEKaml jaffa4: you may find this of interest too..
18:40 isBEKaml http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/​day-11-classes-attributes-methods-and-more/
18:40 [Coke] no. use.perl.org is dead-ish.
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18:41 isBEKaml [Coke]: yeah. If anything, I'd have expected it to show up on google search(atleast some of the content in there is archived)
18:42 masak evning, zebry.
18:42 phenny masak: 12:46Z <mathw> tell masak yes, I did. Lojban isn't full of parentheses!
18:42 phenny masak: 12:47Z <Tene> tell masak currently big sale on http://23andme.com/
18:42 isBEKaml masak!
18:42 masak isBEKaml! \o/
18:43 tadzik masak: dobry wieczór zebro
18:43 isBEKaml masak: thee how goes?
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18:45 masak isBEKaml: I feel great. I regret that I never got a Yapsi release out this month, but that's a small worry, relatively speaking. and thou, good sir, how fare you?
18:46 isBEKaml masak: I'm hale and healthy, goodsir! I just got to look at Yapsi today after a long time... :)
18:46 masak \o/
18:46 masak isBEKaml: I almost got the ENTER phaser working locally. exciting times.
18:47 masak isBEKaml: is it the first time you have a look at Yapsi since the FUTURE arrived?
18:47 isBEKaml named subs, closures, repl! it feels like universe left me and ran way ahead.. good times, good times, I hope?
18:47 masak yes, unless you mean runtime performance :P
18:47 isBEKaml masak: yes, I was a wee bit puzzled looking at FUTURE and wondered if I was looking at tardis. :P
18:47 isBEKaml and droid!
18:48 masak ironically, Tardis will be least affected by FUTURE. :)
18:49 isBEKaml jaffa4: here's another: http://use.perl.org/~Jonath​anWorthington/journal/39455
18:49 * masak clearly missed some backlog
18:49 isBEKaml jaffa4: I could go on digging up references. All you have to look for is jnthn! :P
18:50 isBEKaml jaffa4: here's a list of all his entries, go have a good dive! http://use.perl.org/journa​l.pl?op=list&amp;uid=6049
18:50 masak jnthn also has a new blog or two.
18:50 moritz this is going to sounds like the average scammer, so I apologize in advance... my wife's nephew (6 years old) is currently recovering from leukemia. I'm lookiing for people who would send him a post card to cheer him up
18:51 isBEKaml masak: nah, jaffa4 was specifically asking for meta model stuff. and I remembered jnthn's old blog posts(unless they are moved somewhere than use.perl.org)
18:51 moritz (English, Norwegian, Swedish, French, Spanish, German, Danish would be OK)
18:51 masak well, jnthn is definitely still blogging about meta model stuff at his new blog, too.
18:53 isBEKaml masak: yes, the new ones and NQP. AIUI, jaffa4 wanted references on existing functionalities..
18:53 masak moritz: that's a great initiative. is there an address involved?
18:53 moritz masak: address comes via /msg
18:53 tadzik moritz: how long could the postcard go?
18:53 masak isBEKaml: well, 6model is largely implemented, IIUC.
18:53 moritz tadzik: hum? it's usually just a quarter of a page, a postcard :-)
18:54 isBEKaml masak: well, it shows I have been out too long.. :/
18:54 tadzik moritz: no, I mean the delivery time :)
18:54 tadzik my CLA for TPF has never come to the US I think :)
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18:54 moritz tadzik: just postal mail to .de
18:54 isBEKaml moritz: that's a great thing you're doing... address please
18:55 moritz isBEKaml: sent by personal message
18:55 tadzik moritz: I can send one too
18:56 moritz thanks in advance to masak++, isBEKaml++ and tadzik++
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18:58 isBEKaml moritz: PM'd you.
18:58 masak moritz: oh, and it's not a scam until you promise us money :P
18:58 moritz isBEKaml: re-sent, hope you got it now
18:59 moritz masak: I know, it's just the usual "somebody's i know around 3 corners is really sick..."
18:59 moritz except that I know him personally :-)
19:00 isBEKaml crap, how do you unignore in irssi...? I did that and I still didn't get it..
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19:02 moritz isBEKaml: http://perlpunks.de/paste/show/4da35021.791e.2b4 expires in 1 hour, password foobar
19:03 isBEKaml moritz: got it. thanks.
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19:05 masak I just want to declare that today, on the CQRS course, when we were asked to implement a simple value object with TDD, and got to choose implementation language, I took one look at Eclipse, went "nah", and fired up tote/rakudo ;)
19:05 masak I was among the first to finish. :)
19:05 moritz :-)
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19:06 isBEKaml masak: :)
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19:07 masak the big point of that exercise, by the way, is that getter methods are contrary to the encapsulation that OO provides. and that TDD can be done just fine even without them.
19:09 isBEKaml masak: I think TDD doesn't require all of OO. The whole point of TDD is just that, tests and adherence to specs/behaviour.
19:10 isBEKaml irssi can be an infuriating at times. :/
19:11 masak isBEKaml: yes. testing against getters causes a lot of bad coupling.
19:11 moritz masak: did your instructor cope well with your choice of language?
19:12 isBEKaml masak: :} I just tell people, I won't use java if given a choice.
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19:12 isBEKaml masak: seen junit? makes testing a lot easier, if you ask me..
19:13 masak` isBEKaml: seen it, used it quite a bit.
19:13 isBEKaml anyway, enough about java!
19:13 masak` and yes, it does make testing easier.
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19:14 masak` but I only settled in with JUnit after having tried to use it two or three times, each time ending up re-implementing a small subset of TAP in Java instead :)
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19:16 isBEKaml that's insane. I thought java can never be influenced by anything. perl6 now ventures there!
19:16 masak` is now known as masak
19:16 jaffa4 TDD?
19:16 isBEKaml Test Driven Development.
19:16 masak jaffa4: Test-Driven Development.
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19:18 isBEKaml jaffa4: you got those links I sent you? you can look at them or bug jnthn here if you don't see them quite right.. ;)
19:18 isBEKaml jnthn++
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19:20 jaffa4 got them
19:23 slavik tdd -> test before code?
19:24 masak slavik: no, but the two are related.
19:24 isBEKaml slavik: that would work too. the idea is to see if there's anything that you left out and see that things actually break where they are supposed to.
19:25 masak slavik: TDD could be used to apply tests after the code was written, too. but test-first goes really well with TDD.
19:25 slavik isBEKaml: but if you're coding the test, who is going to test the test?
19:26 isBEKaml slavik: you. :)
19:26 slavik D:
19:28 tadzik heh, that reminds me of this roast commit of mine...
19:28 moritz isBEKaml: yes, ok
19:28 moritz isBEKaml: you still seem to not receive my private messages :-)
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19:28 isBEKaml moritz: I received it.
19:28 tadzik https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/f8adce3
19:28 tadzik that one :)
19:29 slavik rofl
19:29 tadzik (:
19:29 tadzik I resisted the tempation to check who wrote that in the first place :)
19:29 moritz it was probably me
19:30 slavik tadzik: I am not better than you, how do I find out?
19:30 slavik we gotta make fun of someone :D
19:30 * moritz is notorious for being bad at basic arithmetic
19:30 moritz slavik: git blame
19:30 slavik I don't have it copied
19:30 slavik but git is awesome :D
19:31 tadzik moritz: that's usual. When you do complicated integrals, you usually make a mistake in multiplication
19:31 arnsholt Or a sign error. I always make sign errors
19:31 isBEKaml tadzik: :O maybe you misplaced something?
19:32 isBEKaml simple. don't do arithmetic!
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19:45 tadzik who doesn't know https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wik​i/Most-Wanted%3A-Modules-to-write-port ?
19:45 tadzik this page needs more attention and a better link
19:45 tadzik something like modules.perl6.org/most-wanted maybe?
19:45 isBEKaml tadzik: I'd suggest putting that out on perl6.org
19:45 isBEKaml or rakudo.org
19:46 tadzik it is somewhere on perl6.org
19:46 tadzik but I hid it so good that even I don't know where it is
19:46 moritz getting-started maybe?
19:46 moritz which itself isn't linked anywhere?
19:47 TheMartianGeek joined #perl6
19:47 moritz f*ck, perl6.org still links to proto as the module installer
19:47 masak :(
19:48 masak no wonder proto won't die!
19:48 plobsing left #perl6
19:48 tadzik (:
19:48 tadzik where does it?
19:48 moritz front page
19:48 moritz and modules.perl6.org too
19:48 * masak jumps on the back of the proto zombie, drags it into a cellar and bars the cellar door shut
19:48 tadzik I thought it mentions neutro
19:48 tadzik which is bad too
19:49 isBEKaml that still shows proto!
19:49 masak we do eat through module installers, don't we? :)
19:49 jaffa4 what is  >>
19:49 moritz jaffa4: please provide more context
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19:49 jaffa4 say Pair.^attributes(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:49 colomon hyper
19:50 moritz it calls the .name method not on the return list, but on each item in the list separately
19:50 colomon and in no specific order
19:50 isBEKaml that means join everything calling name on that and print
19:50 tadzik moritz: yeah, we have like... five?
19:50 isBEKaml that can be used on anything that returns a list (more than a single item, generally)
19:50 isBEKaml rakudo: say Pair.^attributes(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:50 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«␤»
19:51 isBEKaml heh.
19:51 moritz isBEKaml: Pair is defined in PIR
19:51 moritz isBEKaml: which is why the introspection on it still fails
19:51 isBEKaml moritz: ah. new thing?
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19:52 isBEKaml moritz: I seem to remember seeing Pair.pm or something..
19:52 moritz isBEKaml: yes, but it only augments Pair.pir
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19:52 moritz isBEKaml: I tried to move it to all perl 6, but it's used in the compilation fairly early
19:52 isBEKaml moritz: ah...
19:53 dalek perl6.org: 80d7635 | moritz++ | source/index.html:
19:53 dalek perl6.org: [/] link to modules, not Whatever
19:53 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/80d7635fe8
19:54 jaffa4 rakudo: say Num.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:54 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, isNaN, ln, perl, sqrt, floor, ceiling, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, sinh, asinh, cosh, acosh, tanh, atanh, sech, asech, cosech, acosech, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, cotanh, acotanh, atan2, ACCEPTS, Real,
19:54 p6eval ..Bool, Co…
19:54 * [Coke] doesn't use junit, but does use mxunit
19:54 jaffa4 rakudo: say Str.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:54 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS, perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Bool, Str, encode␤»
19:55 jaffa4 rakudo: say Str.methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/pn29XL0e3r␤»
19:55 isBEKaml [Coke]: flash?
19:55 jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class ''␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/IPeuFmkFmz␤»
19:55 jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ");
19:55 [Coke] isBEKaml: ColdFusion
19:55 dalek perl6.org: 7dca706 | moritz++ | source/index.html:
19:55 dalek perl6.org: [/] the casual visitor will find niecza far more interesting than viv
19:55 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/7dca706a70
19:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, sign, gcd, ACCEPTS, Real, Bool, Complex, reals, isNaN, abs, exp, ln, sqrt, roots, floor, ceiling, truncate, round, cis, unpolar, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, sinh, asinh,
19:55 p6eval ..cosh, a…
19:55 rhr joined #perl6
19:56 [Coke] (my $dayjob)
19:56 isBEKaml [Coke]: wow. (not sarcastic, but really, wow)
19:57 jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.^methods(:global)>>.name.join(", ");
19:57 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«perl, pred, succ, WHICH, Str, Bridge, Int, Rat, Num, sign, gcd, ACCEPTS, Real, Bool, Complex, reals, isNaN, abs, exp, ln, sqrt, roots, floor, ceiling, truncate, round, cis, unpolar, rand, sin, asin, cos, acos, tan, atan, sec, asec, cosec, acosec, cotan, acotan, sinh, asinh,
19:57 p6eval ..cosh, a…
19:57 isBEKaml [Coke]: I heard of CF long time back from an old friend. Never heard anything since.
19:57 jaffa4 DId i just return all methods that use int as a argument?
19:58 moritz s/argument/invcant/
19:58 jaffa4 rakudo: cos(i)
19:58 PerlJam jaffa4: no
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
19:58 jaffa4 rakudo: cos(i1)
19:58 isBEKaml jaffa4: :global is default when you don't mention it.
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &i1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/7tMZNQtprQ␤»
19:58 [Coke] there are 2 OS engines that implement it. We're still using the commercial one (adobe) here. it's ... OK.
19:58 jaffa4 rakudo: say cos(i1)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &i1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/sxkgc4bZgr␤»
19:58 jaffa4 rakudo: say cos(1)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.54030230586814␤»
19:58 tadzik rakudo: say cos(i)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.54308063481524 + -0i␤»
19:58 jaffa4 rakudo: say 1.cos
19:58 tadzik nice try :)
19:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.54030230586814␤»
19:59 * [Coke] wonders why cos(i) prints out -0i.
19:59 * isBEKaml too
19:59 * tadzik wonders why cos(i) even works
19:59 tadzik should it?
19:59 isBEKaml no imagination!
19:59 tadzik :D
19:59 tadzik probably
20:00 moritz why shouldn't it?
20:00 tadzik hmm
20:00 jaffa4 rakudo: say arccos(i)
20:00 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &arccos␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/85awXWbwDK␤»
20:00 [Coke] wolframalpha.com sayz yes.
20:00 isBEKaml wait a minute, probably it was treating it on a polar coordinate.
20:00 tadzik well, division is defined for Complexes, so I guess it's alright
20:01 moritz there's a perfectly fine definition for sin(), cos() etc. in terms of exp()
20:01 jaffa4 rakudo: say 1i+4
20:01 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4 + 1i␤»
20:01 jaffa4 rakudo: say (1i+4)*(3i)
20:01 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-3 + 12i␤»
20:01 dalek modules.perl6.org: 81d4bd8 | moritz++ | web/index.tmpl:
20:01 dalek modules.perl6.org: [web] link to Pls instead of proto+neutro
20:01 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/81d4bd8bf7
20:02 jaffa4 rakudo: say sqrt(-1)
20:02 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
20:02 jaffa4 it could say i,
20:02 frooh arcanez: wesome
20:02 frooh woops
20:02 moritz rakudo: say sqrt(-1 + 0i)
20:02 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0 + 1i␤»
20:03 moritz jaffa4: it could, but we decided against it
20:03 moritz not all people know about complex numbers
20:03 moritz so we only return them when explicitly requested
20:03 jaffa4 it makes sens
20:03 jaffa4 e
20:03 [Coke] moritz: is there a pragma to turn that always on?
20:04 moritz [Coke]: no.
20:04 jaffa4 What is >> again?
20:04 moritz jaffa4: same as before. If you forgot, backlog
20:04 moritz [Coke]: but if you are familiar with complex numbers, you can be bothered to use .roots(2) and pick whatever leaf of the complex plain you want :-)
20:05 moritz rakudo: say ~2.roots(2)
20:05 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.4142135623731 + 0i -1.4142135623731 + 1.73191211247099e-16i␤»
20:05 jaffa4 say Int.^methods(:global)
20:05 jaffa4 raudo: say Int.^methods(:global)
20:05 jaffa4 rakudo: say Int.^methods(:global)
20:05 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:
20:05 p6eval ..OUTPUT«perlpredsuccWHICHStrBridgeIntRatNumsigng​cdACCEPTSRealBoolComplexrealsisNaNabsexplnsqrtroo​tsfloorceilingtruncateroundcisunpolarrandsinasinc​osacostanatansecaseccosecacoseccotanacotansinhasi​nhcoshacoshtanhatanhsechasechcosechacosechcotanha​cotanhatan2Numericconjugateloglog10to-radiansf…
20:05 Tene masak: http://www.happyprog.com/tdgotchi/ is cute and silly
20:07 isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.take(5).join(", ").say
20:07 jaffa4 Are macros working?
20:07 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/NYkiko95_r␤»
20:07 Tene jaffa4: no.
20:07 _jaldhar left #perl6
20:07 _jaldhar joined #perl6
20:08 isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local).perl.say
20:08 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
20:09 isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ")
20:09 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
20:09 jaffa4 rakudo: say 1|3
20:09 isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods(:local)>>.name.join(", ").perl.say
20:09 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«any(1, 3)␤»
20:09 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«"new, at_pos, perl, splice, delete"␤»
20:09 isBEKaml rakudo: Array.^methods>>.name.join(", ").perl.say
20:09 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«"new, at_pos, perl, splice, delete, new, Capture, eager, elems, flat, iterator, list, munch, Bool, Num, Str, exists, fmt, map, perl, reverse, rotate, sort, pop, push, shift, unshift, ACCEPTS, at_pos, hash, of, item, Numeric, Int, Num, Str, elems, fmt, list, Numeric, Real, Int,
20:09 p6eval ..Rat,…
20:09 jaffa4 rakudo: say (1,2,3) >> join(":::")
20:09 masak Tene: ah. :)
20:09 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "join(\":::\""␤»
20:10 masak Tene: very much the same feel/principle as with tote, in fact.
20:10 jaffa4 rakudo: say (1,2,3) ==> join(":::")
20:10 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«123␤»
20:10 isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.elems.take(5).join(", ").say
20:10 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Integer'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ANkvl_8jnU␤»
20:10 jaffa4 rakudo: say ((1,2,3) ==> join(":::"))
20:10 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1:::2:::3␤»
20:10 isBEKaml rakudo: Int.^methods.list.take(5).join(", ").say
20:10 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Method 'take' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/xZkUpxhPGz␤»
20:11 moritz \o/ perl6.org updated
20:11 masak rakudo: 1,2,3 ==> join(":::") ==> say
20:11 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1:::2:::3␤»
20:11 masak moritz++
20:12 jaffa4 rakudo: say (1 ==> join(":::"))
20:12 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:12 jaffa4 rakudo: say PI
20:12 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &PI␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/rsMY6_hNkB␤»
20:13 moritz rakudo: say exp(1i * pi)
20:13 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-1 + 1.22464679914735e-16i␤»
20:13 isBEKaml moritz: "Whatever" still shows proto?
20:13 moritz isBEKaml: I just noticed, updating...
20:14 dalek perl6.org: 306179c | moritz++ | source/ (2 files):
20:14 dalek perl6.org: more module tweaks
20:14 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/306179ce71
20:14 jaffa4 rakudo: pi
20:14 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
20:14 jaffa4 rakudo: say pi
20:14 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
20:14 jaffa4 What is the binary or operator?
20:14 flussence_ +|
20:15 donri joined #perl6
20:15 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5
20:15 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«7␤»
20:15 slavik what's +| supposed to do?
20:15 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5+|255
20:15 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«255␤»
20:15 isBEKaml slavik: 3 | 5
20:15 PerlJam slavik: bitwise-or
20:16 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+|5+|255+&4
20:16 flussence_ | in numeric context
20:16 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«7␤»
20:16 PerlJam slavik: numeric bitwise or
20:16 slavik +| in boolean?
20:16 isBEKaml slavik: no. bitwise.
20:16 jaffa4 it shoud be 4
20:17 flussence_ rakudo: say (3+|5+|255)+&4
20:17 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4␤»
20:17 jaffa4 you are right
20:17 jaffa4 precedence
20:17 jaffa4 rakudo: say !3
20:17 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
20:17 jaffa4 rakudo: say +!3
20:18 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:18 jaffa4 rakudo: say +^3
20:18 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-4␤»
20:18 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0+!3
20:18 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:18 jaffa4 rakudo: say 1+^1
20:18 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:19 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3+^1
20:19 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«2␤»
20:19 jaffa4 rakudo: say ~3
20:19 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:19 jaffa4 rakudo: say +~3
20:19 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:19 jaffa4 What is completenter?
20:20 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3~3~''oo'
20:20 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say 3~3~''"␤»
20:21 flussence_ there's no complement operator, since it's not possible to know in advance what bitsize you expect the output to be.
20:21 flussence_ you'll have to xor with 0xFFFFFFFF if you want a 32-bit complement
20:21 PerlJam It would be nice to have a compliment operator though ...
20:22 PerlJam "Your hair looks nice"
20:22 tadzik :D
20:22 PerlJam "you have pretty eyes"
20:22 tadzik where is this unicode heart...
20:22 tadzik .u heart
20:22 phenny U+2766 FLORAL HEART (❦)
20:22 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
20:22 tadzik notmuch
20:22 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-1␤»
20:22 isBEKaml .u love
20:22 phenny isBEKaml: Sorry, no results for 'love'.
20:22 isBEKaml blah!
20:23 tadzik poor, ronery phenny
20:23 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF+1
20:23 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0␤»
20:23 tadzik no results for Love :(
20:23 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*500
20:23 isBEKaml phenny: love thyself!
20:23 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«-500␤»
20:23 tadzik hugme: hug phenny
20:23 tadzik oh, love is not there again
20:24 tadzik how depressing
20:24 hugme joined #perl6
20:24 isBEKaml phenny: tell yourself to love thyself.
20:24 phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when yourself is around.
20:24 moritz hugme: hug tadzik
20:24 * hugme hugs tadzik
20:24 tadzik moritz: thanks, I missed that :)
20:24 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFFFFFFF*500
20:24 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1.40737488355328e+17␤»
20:24 isBEKaml hugme: hug phenny
20:24 * hugme hugs phenny
20:24 isBEKaml phenny: hug back!
20:24 jaffa4 rakudo: say 0xFFFFFFF*500
20:24 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«134217727500␤»
20:27 maja joined #perl6
20:27 tadzik hugme: hug maja
20:27 * hugme hugs maja
20:27 tadzik maja: welcome :)
20:27 maja hi :)
20:28 wallberg left #perl6
20:28 isBEKaml whoa, tadzik is being especially harsh on moritz...
20:28 isBEKaml silly pytos.
20:28 tadzik :P
20:29 tadzik I actually wrote that in the first place, and left it there w/o correcting for -Ofun
20:29 maja left #perl6
20:29 jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333
20:29 p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«819␤»
20:29 jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333*700
20:29 masak hiya, maja.
20:29 p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«573300␤»
20:29 masak dang, I missed maja :)
20:29 jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333fffffffffffffffff*700
20:29 p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.69414897572948E+26␤»
20:30 jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff​fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff*700
20:30 isBEKaml masak: maja means great fun in my native tongue.
20:30 p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.62267234429247E+79␤»
20:30 isBEKaml :)
20:30 jaffa4 niecza: say 0x333ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff​fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff​ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff*700
20:30 tadzik isBEKaml: if you knew what I know... :)
20:30 p6eval niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«1.87892620893239E+156␤»
20:30 masak isBEKaml: sounds like your language is properly huffmannized.
20:31 isBEKaml masak: oh, you don't know... :P
20:31 tadzik isBEKaml: what language would that be?
20:31 masak probably not :)
20:31 isBEKaml tadzik: you got masak in on your joke too? slavic tongues always confound... :D
20:32 tadzik isBEKaml: what joke? :)
20:32 jaffa4 maja kniga
20:32 * tadzik wonders to what word in Polish "masak" is close
20:32 masak 'maska', apparently.
20:32 tadzik yeah
20:32 isBEKaml tadzik: "01:59 < tadzik> isBEKaml: if you knew what I know... :)"
20:33 masak tadzik: yes. spill it out. what is it that you know? :)
20:33 tadzik oh, you know, stuff :)
20:33 isBEKaml masak: maska again. bittersweet, salty. :D
20:33 tadzik maja is a close friend of mine apparently
20:33 moritz tadzik: oh, did I typo somewhere?
20:33 tadzik :)
20:33 tadzik moritz: aye, the commit message
20:33 moritz if so, please correct it
20:33 masak tadzik: we're geeks, you can't expect us to be happy about your withholding information from us! :)
20:34 moritz ah
20:34 isBEKaml moritz: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl​6.org/commit/81d4bd8bf7dde4fe58c3ef14​8747a04743e285c8#commitcomment-337656
20:34 tadzik moritz: I commented on a commit
20:34 tadzik masak: fine. Whatcha wanna know? :)
20:34 moritz tadzik: I just searched the files for the wrong speling :-)
20:34 masak tadzik: you sir, are a tease.
20:34 tadzik masak: you know this variant of Truth of Dare in which everyone's afraid to say "Dare"? :)
20:34 moritz wha'ever
20:34 isBEKaml masak: huffmanised tease.
20:35 slavik speaking of slavic languages ... kind of interesting that it is quiet a large family of languages which are very familiar
20:35 masak tadzik: actually, I don't. I don't play that game nearly enough :)
20:35 isBEKaml exactly what I meant. Swedish isn't that far off the slavic family from polish.
20:35 masak tadzik: why would one be afraid to say "Dare"? isn't Dare the non-scary option?
20:35 slavik except that all the names have a lot of jjjjjkkkkkk and such
20:35 moritz good for vim users :-)
20:36 slavik vowels are there for a reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P
20:36 masak isBEKaml: er. Swedish isn't a slavic language.
20:36 tadzik masak: it depends on the company :)
20:36 slavik moritz: maybe vim users invented it?
20:36 moritz :-)
20:36 isBEKaml masak: Scandinavian,okay. :)
20:36 tadzik in colemak j and k are pretty far apparently
20:36 tadzik j is on qwerty 'y', k is on 'n'
20:36 masak tadzik: you do know that jnthn and I aren't the only people in Sweden? ;)
20:37 isBEKaml masak: to be honest, I didn't include swedish in slavic family actually. :)
20:37 tadzik masak: yeah, I know :) What are you up to?
20:37 tadzik or is that a Truth or Dare question? :P
20:38 icwiener left #perl6
20:38 slavik masak: there are more than 2 people in Sweden?!?!
20:38 slavik no wait ... there are 4
20:38 slavik the other 2 are professional starcraft2 players
20:38 masak tadzik: if only you knew what I'm up to... :P
20:38 slavik actually, make that 5
20:38 masak yeah. the King of Sweden, too.
20:38 tadzik slavik: your nick is pretty close to "Słowik"
20:38 tadzik and IKEA
20:38 tadzik I don't think that's one person
20:38 masak IKEA is a company, not a person.
20:38 isBEKaml tadzik: and slavic
20:39 slavik holy crap, 60% of Swedish population is made up of professional sc2 players
20:39 tadzik oh, so you all work for IKEA?
20:39 tadzik that explains LackRack
20:39 slavik that explains the poor packaging
20:39 slavik stop being lazy!!!
20:39 isBEKaml that explains the constant movement!
20:40 jaffa4 rakudo: my $b=< 1 2 3>;
20:40 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
20:40 jaffa4 rakudo: my $b=< 1 2 3>; say $b
20:40 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
20:40 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say $b
20:40 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$b' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/Kz6uNmuqO5:22)␤»
20:40 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say @b
20:41 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«123␤»
20:41 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3>; say @b*3
20:41 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«9␤»
20:41 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1>; say @b*3
20:41 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«12␤»
20:41 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> >> sin; say @b*3
20:41 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
20:41 mj41 left #perl6
20:42 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b >> sin; say @b*3
20:42 tadzik »
20:42 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
20:42 tadzik hrm
20:42 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b >> sin; say @b
20:42 tadzik rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b » sin; say @b*3
20:42 masak jaffa4: it's @b>>.sin
20:42 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
20:42 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "@b \x{bb} sin; "␤»
20:42 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; @b>> sin; say @b
20:43 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
20:43 tadzik still an LTA message for me
20:43 masak jaffa4: it's @b>>.sin
20:43 masak jaffa4: but that won't change @b itself.
20:43 masak only calculate the answer and throw it away.
20:43 donri left #perl6
20:43 Tene do we support hyper addign into aggregates?  @b>>.=sin ?
20:43 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>> sin; say @b
20:43 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of >> to do right shift; in Perl 6 please use +> or ~> at line 22, near "sin; say @"␤»
20:44 jaffa4 I cannot see what is wrong
20:44 Tene rakudo: my @b = < 1 2 3 1 >; my @c=@b>>.sin; say @b
20:44 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:44 masak jaffa4: you're missing a dot.
20:44 Tene jaffa4: you left out the .
20:44 Tene rakudo: my @b = < 1 2 3 1 >; @b>>.=sin; say @b
20:44 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«0.8414709848078970.9092974268256​820.1411200080598670.841470984807897␤»
20:44 masak \o/
20:44 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.  sin; say @b
20:44 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c=@b>>"␤»
20:44 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.sin; say @b
20:45 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:45 isBEKaml rakuod: my @b=<1 2 3 4>; my @c= (@b>>.sin); say @c.perl;
20:45 isBEKaml rakudo: my @b=<1 2 3 4>; my @c= (@b>>.sin); say @c.perl;
20:45 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[0.841470984807897, 0.909297426825682, 0.141120008059867, -0.756802495307928]␤»
20:45 isBEKaml >>.= does inplace? hmmm
20:46 masak well, .= does in-place.
20:46 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 1>
20:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132:  ( no output )
20:46 masak the >> merely distributes the calculation on the elements.
20:46 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 1>; say @b
20:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<231␤»
20:46 isBEKaml masak: I forgot context. I was speaking about >> alone. :)
20:47 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 >>; say @b
20:47 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @b=< < "␤»
20:47 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \>>; say @b
20:47 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>␤»
20:47 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> >; say @b
20:47 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>␤»
20:47 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b
20:47 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
20:47 isBEKaml heh. arrays are not homogeneous?
20:48 masak sorry, what?
20:48 isBEKaml rakudo: my @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b.WHAT
20:48 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Array()␤»
20:48 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.*3; say @b
20:48 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c=@b>>"␤»
20:48 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>.(*3); say @b
20:48 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
20:48 isBEKaml masak: I'm again losing context. :) too much FP, apparently.
20:48 masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>.*3; say @b
20:48 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @c= @b "␤»
20:48 masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>*>> 3; say @b
20:48 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:49 masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c= @b >>*>> 3; say @c
20:49 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3693␤»
20:49 isBEKaml masak: homogeneity in arrays or lists refers to the contents of the array being of the same type as every other element in it.
20:49 masak isBEKaml: ah. no, certainly not :)
20:49 masak isBEKaml: not unless you ask for it.
20:49 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*; say @b
20:49 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "; say @b"␤»
20:49 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*>>8; say @b
20:49 isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b.WHAT
20:49 masak isBEKaml: we're not in a HM regime here :)
20:49 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:49 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«()␤»
20:50 isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b;
20:50 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
20:50 isBEKaml hah.
20:50 isBEKaml masak: HM?
20:51 masak Hindley-Milner?
20:51 masak the type system that ML and Haskell use...
20:51 isBEKaml masak: ouch. that was the first thing I though.
20:51 isBEKaml masak: HM is a type inference algorithm, how haskell and ML infer types.
20:51 masak unless it means "Hidden Markov" :P
20:51 isBEKaml or higher mathematics.
20:52 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b>>*>> 8; say @b
20:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:52 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @b
20:52 masak jaffa4: say @c
20:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«1231␤»
20:52 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @c
20:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«816248␤»
20:52 masak \o/
20:52 masak rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>> 8; say @c.perl
20:52 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>* >> 8; say @c
20:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[8, 16, 24, 8]␤»
20:52 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near " >> 8; say"␤»
20:53 masak jaffa4: meta'd operators must be written without whitespace in them.
20:53 moritz in fact all operators must be free of whitespace
20:53 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>+>>1; say @c
20:53 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«917259␤»
20:54 jaffa4 rakudo: my @b=< 1 2 3 1> ; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>+>>1; say @c.perl
20:54 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[9, 17, 25, 9]␤»
20:54 isBEKaml rakudo: my @b = <1 2 3 4>; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>*8; @c.perl.say;
20:54 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing << or >> at line 22, near "8; @c.perl"␤»
20:54 impious joined #perl6
20:54 isBEKaml rakudo: my @b = <1 2 3 4>; my @c=@b >>*>>8>>*>>8; @c.perl.say;
20:54 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«[64, 128, 192, 256]␤»
20:54 isBEKaml \o/
20:55 isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b;
20:55 isBEKaml rakudo: my Int @b=< < 2 3 \> \\>; say @b;
20:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
20:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«<23>\␤»
20:55 isBEKaml masak: ^^ I specifically asked for an Int array. what's wrong here?
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20:55 jaffa4 rakudo: say e+4
20:55 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«6.71828182845904␤»
20:56 jaffa4 rakudo: say 'e'+4
20:56 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«4␤»
20:56 masak isBEKaml: the type checking is not done, I guess.
20:56 jaffa4 rakudo: say '1y'+4
20:56 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
20:56 jaffa4 rakudo: say '1yuuuuu'+4
20:56 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
20:56 isBEKaml masak: poor, poor rakudo. What can I do for you? :)
20:57 dorlamm joined #perl6
20:57 jaffa4 rakudo: say '-1yuuuuu'+4
20:57 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«3␤»
20:57 jaffa4 rakudo: say "1yuuuuu"+4
20:57 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«5␤»
20:57 jaffa4 rakudo: say "1".ord+4
20:57 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«53␤»
20:58 isBEKaml masak: is there a bug ticket open on this?
21:00 jaffa4 rakudo: say "1"++
21:00 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Cannot modify readonly value␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 7538:CORE.setting␤»
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21:09 masak` isBEKaml: I believe so.
21:10 masak` isBEKaml: however, I don't exactly feel I have a good overview of the ticket queue anymore.
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21:17 masak` 'night, #perl6.
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21:18 jaffa4 bye
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23:57 Tene an acquaintence of mine in a different channel had an interesting example of precircumfix syntax.
23:57 Tene 17:49 < jcowan> {http://www.ccil.org/~cowan/whatever}foo
23:57 Tene 17:50 < jcowan> the conventional expanded form of cowan:foo in discussing XML namespaces.
23:58 cdarroch left #perl6
23:58 Tene I don't know enough about XML namespace syntax and semantics to know if that's really precircumfix in the same sense that we understand postcircumfix here or not, though.

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