Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:33 lue hello world! o/
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00:56 sorear good * #perl6
01:00 colomon \o
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01:05 sorear moritz: niecza doesn't actually do "array in regex" yet
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01:08 sorear 05:38 < masak> Niecza is officially released by Stefan O'Rear, a moderately  famous entity.
01:08 sorear \o/ I'm moderately famous
01:09 sorear ashleydev: Perl 6 will not use anything like HM, because HM + subtypes = undecidable
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01:10 colomon sorear: you're also an entity!
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01:23 lue .oO(what is HM?)
01:27 isBEKaml lue: it's Hindley-Milner type system. used by haskell
01:31 isBEKaml sorear: I might be wrong here, but I sort of got an impression that haskell solved the problem of subtyping using GADTs. I'm aware that haskell does not have subtype polymorphism like java does.
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01:42 isBEKaml phenny: "nee enna panre?"
01:42 isBEKaml phenny: "nee enna panre?"?
01:43 phenny isBEKaml: "Enna nee panre?" (id to en, translate.google.com)
01:43 isBEKaml :)
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01:49 isBEKaml phenny: "## #### ## ### ##?"?
01:49 phenny isBEKaml: Unable to guess your crazy moon language, sorry.
01:50 isBEKaml D: so that's how the text turned out..
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01:53 donri phenny: "ey fattaru eller?"?
01:53 phenny donri: "ey or Fatty?" (sv to en, translate.google.com)
01:53 donri not quite.
01:54 isBEKaml I'm stil not yet able to paste unicode text into irssi console. :(
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02:38 * colomon is officially scheduled to give a Perl 6 presentation at Penguicon.
02:42 woosley Hello perl6, is 'opendir' implemented for now?
02:44 woosley perl6: opendir("/");
02:45 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** Unsafe function 'opendir' called under safe mode␤    at /tmp/Bqyxcu0VVU line 1, column 1-13␤»
02:45 p6eval ..niecza v4-47-gfffa4cd: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤      'opendir' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1141 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 75)␤
02:45 p6eval ..at /home/p6eval/nie…
02:45 p6eval ..rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &opendir␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/1DrCbsEln_␤»
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02:50 woosley oh, spectest.data seems telling me that it is not here right now
03:11 isBEKaml .u spade
03:11 isBEKaml .u spade
03:11 phenny U+2660 BLACK SPADE SUIT (♠)
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06:48 muixirt good morning
06:50 isBEKaml \o
06:50 sorear hi
06:51 muixirt how is Perl6 and Rakudo Perl doing these days?
06:51 sorear perl6 is doing well, rakudo notsomuch
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06:53 muixirt and the work on mop for nqp and/or parrot?
06:53 sorear that has been at a standstill
06:53 sorear jnthn had the gall to take a vacation :p
06:54 sorear well, parrot is moving
06:54 muixirt parrot? really? ;-)
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06:57 muixirt well vacation is good but a low bus number is bad
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07:02 moritz right. I'd love to find a way to improve it.
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07:03 muixirt moritz: on what jnthn is working on?
07:03 moritz muixirt: the new (meta) object system
07:04 moritz http://irclog.perlgeek.de/p​hasers/2011-04-12#i_3487800
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07:05 muixirt moritz: I thought jnthn was working on it and the parrot folks were enthusiastic about it and wanted to implemented their version for parrot
07:06 moritz that's mostly true
07:06 tadzik now every language implementor on Parrot wants 6model :)
07:06 moritz not all are enthusiastic to adopt a technology that is somehow related to perl
07:06 tadzik I mean Ruby, Python's thinking about it too
07:06 moritz because it carries a taint, you know
07:07 moritz the basic primitives have nothing to do with Perl 6
07:07 moritz they just happen to be sufficiently generic to allow Perl 6 semantics on top of them
07:09 muixirt moritz: is there some coherent but understandable documentation on that stuff besides jnthn blog posts?
07:11 * muixirt has rather vague thoughts w.r.t. a meta object model
07:13 moritz muixirt: http://search.cpan.org/~doy/Moose​-2.0000/lib/Class/MOP.pm#SEE_ALSO has a list of literature regarding MOPs
07:14 tadzik muixirt: https://github.com/jnthn/6mo​del/blob/master/overview.pod
07:14 muixirt thanks guys
07:14 moritz I've also written http://perlgeek.de/en/article/d​iscovering-meta-object-protocol which is more from a user perspective
07:14 * muixirt is lazy as always ...
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07:46 muixirt so Rakudo blocks on what?
07:46 moritz on meta objects all the way down
07:46 moritz and serialization of type objects at compile time
07:48 muixirt serialization? Better support for this in parrot is talked about for how long?
07:48 isBEKaml serialization? Isn't that a parrot thing?
07:49 moritz as long as we've stated that we need it
07:49 muixirt moritz: a diplomatic answer :-)
07:50 muixirt there is probably a gsoc project for it this year...
07:50 moritz no
07:50 moritz jnthn has written his own thing for now
07:51 moritz I don't know how generic it is, but it seems to work in nqp for now
07:53 muixirt to hell with the gene tech hysteria in Europe! We need to clone jnthn at least 10 times. Fast.
07:53 isBEKaml and they would all be doing the same thing. Effort duplication. :D
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07:55 muixirt isBEKaml: ok, we have to clone him 10,000 times with some mutations, and hope that will do it :-)
07:55 isBEKaml :-)
07:55 isBEKaml mutant jnthns!
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08:24 rindolf Hi all.
08:24 mberends hi
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08:25 moritz hi
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08:27 rindolf mberends , moritz : what's up?
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08:28 moritz $work is up
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08:28 moritz and parrot segfaults
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09:45 bbkr_ is there in P6 any smart equivalent of p5 code "defined $x and length $x" (except regexp match)?
09:46 moritz rakudo: say so Any.?chars
09:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
09:46 moritz rakudo: say so ''.?chars
09:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
09:46 moritz rakudo: say so 'foo'.?chars
09:46 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
09:46 moritz bbkr_: not quite the same, but does what you want
09:46 bbkr_ moritz++
09:46 bbkr_ just what I was looking for
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09:54 miso2217 moritz: what do you think about this new attempt on a real life example for Backtracking:
09:54 miso2217 moritz: my regex word4 { <[a..z']>+ }; my regex after_can { (<&word4>) \W+ <?{ $0 eq 'can' }> <&word4> }; .say for "can this can't that.".match(:g, rx/ ( <&after_can> ) /);
09:54 miso2217 moritz: my token word4 { <[a..z']>+ }; my regex after_can { (<&word4>) \W+ <?{ $0 eq 'can' }> <&word4> }; .say for "can this can't that.".match(:g, rx/ ( <&after_can> ) /);
09:55 moritz miso2217: if I want to match a word after 'can', I just write 'can' \W+ (\w+)
09:56 moritz miso2217: or do I miss something very crucial?
10:03 miso2217 moritz: yes of course, but you won't illustrate backtracking that way.
10:04 miso2217 moritz: do you think there is a use case where disabling backtracking would be the the only solution
10:04 miso2217 morite: besides performance?
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10:06 moritz miso2217: I'm pretty sure the current example can be presented in a context where it only works with backtracking enabled, without being too contrived
10:09 miso2217 moritz: I have the feeling that for baktracking to be usefull you need to match something after the and, anchoring to start of word won't work I think.
10:10 miso2217 moritz: ah! may be something like "and andxxxxx" could work
10:11 moritz (\w+)\W+$0\w+
10:11 moritz doesn't need any backtracking
10:12 moritz the classical example where backtracking is needed is the regex prime tester :-)
10:12 moritz there are other examples in STD.pm6, but they are too complicated to present them in the book
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10:26 miso2217 rakudo: my regex word { :ratchet \w+ }; my regex dup { <word=&word> \W+ $<word> }; if 'and andxxxxx beach' ~~ m/<&dup>/ { say 'match ', $/; } else { say 'no match'; }
10:26 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«match and and␤»
10:27 miso2217 moritz: any ideas on while that one matches? Shouldn't the :ratchet never enable the regex engine to give back anything else but andxxxx? Did I miss somethnig here?
10:28 miso2217 moritz: ah, sory I see
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11:10 Axius Do you guys know any sites with perl6 recipes/scripts? any suggestion is wellcome.
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11:14 colomon Axius: lots of perl6 examples at http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Perl_6
11:15 colomon (you might need to scroll down to see the list)
11:16 Axius colomon: Thanks
11:18 * sbp points in the general direction of Learn in https://github.com/perl6/misc/wiki/Get-Into-Perl6
11:18 sbp also if you find any more example, please add them there!
11:25 * moritz points to http://perl6.org/documentation/
11:25 moritz a meta pointer, kinda
11:27 sbp how up to date is this? https://github.com/perl6/perl6-examples
11:27 sbp the dates make it look not all that well maintained. is it reliable as a source to learn from?
11:28 moritz not very up-to-date
11:31 dalek perl6.org: fc4bcf0 | moritz++ | source/documentation/index.html:
11:31 dalek perl6.org: [documentation] warn about perl6-examples outdatedness, sbp++
11:31 dalek perl6.org:
11:31 dalek perl6.org: Also update link to the Using Perl 6 PDF
11:31 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/fc4bcf057b
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11:56 houghton Hey, I was just curious whether Perl 6 development is stalled. It seems like there haven't been any updates in a while.
11:57 moritz houghton: it goes on
11:57 houghton great
11:57 moritz houghton: it's just that one of our core developers had a bit of vacation
11:57 houghton alright
11:57 moritz and the second has complications in real life :(
11:57 houghton ah
11:57 houghton so there are two
11:59 houghton Well, it's good stuff. Thanks for all the work.
11:59 moritz houghton: there are other people working on rakudo now and then, but we usually do less "dramatic" work than jnthn and pmichaud :-)
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12:24 takadonet morning all
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12:24 rindolf Hi takadonet
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13:40 pmurias hi
13:43 pmurias sorear: ping
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13:55 sorear pmurias: hi
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14:01 tadzik a Perl 6 hackathon on YAPC \o/
14:01 jasonmay that would be cool
14:01 moritz yes
14:02 moritz and I won't be there :(
14:02 jasonmay I should get my IoC module up to date
14:02 tadzik who's responsible?
14:02 moritz though last year was pretty cool
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14:02 moritz tadzik: talk to Andrew Shitov or Richard Hainsworth
14:03 tadzik oh, I just hoped it's someone I can easily give karma to
14:03 moritz (Richard Hainsworth)++
14:03 moritz (Andrew Shitov)++
14:08 pmurias sorear: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/97172
14:08 tadzik By Jonathan Worthington (‎jnthn‎) from Bratislava.pm
14:08 tadzik jnthn++
14:08 pmurias sorear: i'm trying to hook in the hoopl optimiser into niecza so that i can feed nam into it convieniently
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14:09 pmurias sorear: but i get that strange error
14:10 sorear Have you touched anything in boot/?
14:10 sorear Oh
14:10 pmurias i forgot to change the Makefile
14:10 sorear You need to add NieczaBackendHoopl to the list of units in the Makefile
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14:11 sorear also that list is ordered by dependencies
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14:14 pmurias sorear: how do i supply a path to an executable instead of xgd-open being run
14:14 pmurias to run_command
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14:20 pmurias fixed it
14:21 pmurias i had a typo and mono was trying to be too smart
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14:23 dalek niecza: 5fa1ca1 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (3 files):
14:23 dalek niecza: [hoopl] split out code into Nam.hs
14:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5fa1ca1745
14:23 dalek niecza: e520a0c | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (3 files):
14:23 dalek niecza: [hoopl]
14:23 dalek niecza: add missing Nam.hs
14:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e520a0c42e
14:23 dalek niecza: f40db59 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (2 files):
14:23 dalek niecza: [hoopl] convert string literals from json correctly
14:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f40db59e38
14:23 dalek niecza: d9fcbb6 | pmurias++ | / (4 files):
14:23 dalek niecza: added -Bhoopl
14:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d9fcbb6848
14:23 pmurias sorear: i hope you don't mind me adding non-working -B backends
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14:25 sorear not at all
14:28 pmurias what's the use of the sink opcode?
14:29 pmurias why do we need it at all?
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14:30 moritz I don't know how niecza uses it
14:30 moritz but I know that rakudo is in trouble for not having it
14:31 sorear pmurias: it keeps the CLR evaluation stack balanced
14:31 moritz since map and for are the same thing, a statement like   'for ^1000 { .say }' needs to store a return value for each iteration if it doesn't know it's in sink context
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14:31 sorear moritz: niecza's sink is much lower level than that
14:31 moritz ah
14:34 pmurias sorear: so does it change semantics?
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14:35 tadzik moritz: why is map and for the same thing?
14:36 moritz tadzik: so that list comprehension works
14:36 tadzik mhm
14:37 pmurias sorear: what is it's return value?
14:38 sorear Void
14:39 sorear many control flow ops require Void children
14:39 dalek niecza: e609afb | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (2 files):
14:39 dalek niecza: [hoopl] handle sink - not sure if ignoring it is always correct
14:39 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e609afbc51
14:40 pmurias sorear: is Void a Perl6-land value?
14:40 sorear no
14:41 pmurias i don't really understand why/when it's needed
14:41 pmurias what do you mean by balancing the CLR evaluation stack?
14:42 sorear inserting pop instructions when the result of an op isn't needed
14:42 sorear this was a lot more necessary back before the backend was type-aware
14:43 pmurias couldn't this be infered automatically by other opcodes?
14:44 pmurias like prog implicitly inserting the pop instructions for all it's children except the last one when it's needed
14:46 sorear it could, yes
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14:52 isBEKaml yapsi: say say
14:52 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Yapsi' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤  lib␤  /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤  /home/p6eval//p2/lib/parrot/3.​2.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤  .)␤»
14:52 isBEKaml uh, yapsi target was removed from p6eval?
14:52 moritz no, it's just broken
14:53 sorear if it were removed, there'd be no reply
14:53 isBEKaml anything that can be done to fix it?
14:54 dalek evalbot: 0b5d13d | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
14:54 dalek evalbot: try to unbreak yapsi
14:54 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/0b5d13d774
14:54 isBEKaml moritz++
14:55 moritz evalbot control restart
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14:56 moritz Trying to connect to server irc.freenode.org
14:56 moritz Lost connection to server irc.freenode.org.
14:57 moritz it also took nearly a minute to git pull
14:57 moritz seems the network over there is a bit unstable
14:57 isBEKaml feather?
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14:57 moritz no, appflux
14:57 moritz yapsi: say say 1
14:58 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:58 moritz yapsi: say 1
14:58 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
14:58 isBEKaml rakudo: say 42;
14:58 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«42␤»
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14:59 tadzik the timeout may be to small, Yapsi is _slow_
14:59 moritz oh, and the yapsi on that server isn't precompiled
14:59 isBEKaml yapsi: say 42;
15:00 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
15:00 tadzik yapsi -e 'say 42'  2,46s user 0,05s system 37% cpu 6,650 total
15:00 moritz tadzik: precompiled?
15:00 tadzik moritz: I think so
15:00 isBEKaml precompiled?
15:00 tadzik I trust panda in this :)
15:01 tadzik yes, precompiled
15:01 tadzik panda++
15:01 pmurias sorear: do you think it would make sense to have doc/nam.pod be partially machine readable, so that i could generate the haskell ast repr from that
15:01 isBEKaml tadzik: what do you see when you run yapsi -e 'say say' ?
15:01 tadzik Unknown instruction: say Any()
15:01 isBEKaml tadzik: the reason I wanted to run this on p6eval was I got a different output than it should be.
15:01 pmurias as well as read in things about the ops such as which ops are side-effect free etc.
15:02 isBEKaml tadzik: I think that's incorrect. If I have my history right, it should be displaying something along the lines of "unable to parse"
15:02 dalek niecza: e1d1478 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (2 files):
15:02 dalek niecza: [hoopl] support bif_plus
15:02 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e1d1478601
15:02 tadzik isBEKaml: what's your history? :)
15:02 tadzik isBEKaml: yapsi has subs now, so it may be different
15:03 isBEKaml tadzik: I say history because it's been a really long time since I messed with yapsi. :)
15:03 sorear dunno
15:03 tadzik for example, "say say 42" gives me "42\n1"
15:03 tadzik so that output makes sense for me
15:03 tadzik rakudo: say say
15:03 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«␤Bool::True␤»
15:03 tadzik niecza: say say
15:03 p6eval niecza v4-51-gd9fcbb6: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/hBVLN_vsgW line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32msay say[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤␤␤Bool::True␤»
15:04 tadzik std: say say
15:04 p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤  Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument at /tmp/zxiTl2uSPO line 1:␤------> [32msay say[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤ok 00:01 118m␤»
15:04 tadzik IOC, it's allright
15:04 tadzik so yapsi is wrong, probably due to lack of Bool
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15:05 isBEKaml tadzik: that's okay. one discomfiture in long breaks is you have to start all over again. :)
15:06 MayDaniel left #perl6
15:06 isBEKaml tadzik: I see what you mean now. Every <saycall> gets converted to a new instance of Future::Call. Named subs alright. :)
15:06 pmurias sorear: i could keep that info in a seperate file or hardcoded in haskell
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15:10 dalek niecza: 2a67dcf | pmurias++ | docs/nam.pod:
15:10 dalek niecza: example machine parsable info for bif_plus
15:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2a67dcfc52
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16:28 dalek modules.perl6.org: 54d26fa | tadzik++ | web/index.tmpl:
16:28 dalek modules.perl6.org: Add a note about the Most Wanted wiki page
16:28 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/54d26faeb3
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16:53 isBEKaml the pointme bot still exists?
16:53 isBEKaml pointme: yapsi
16:53 pmurias left #perl6
16:54 isBEKaml if not, that listing must be taken off perl6.org
16:55 rtward left #perl6
16:56 moritz isBEKaml: then patch it out
16:57 isBEKaml moritz: yes, I'm still looking around to set up my config.
16:57 isBEKaml moritz: unfortunately, lost them sometime back. :(
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17:07 dalek perl6.org: a78bce3 | Shrivatsan++ | source/getting-started/in (2 files):
17:07 dalek perl6.org: Clear out proto zombies!
17:07 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/a78bce32d5
17:07 dalek perl6.org: 71ec874 | Shrivatsan++ | source/community/irc.html:
17:07 dalek perl6.org: Remove entry for pointme bot since it doesn't seem to be used anymore.
17:07 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/71ec874368
17:07 isBEKaml moritz: Done. thanks.
17:08 moritz isBEKaml++
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17:25 tadzik so, pugs_svn is still there?
17:25 isBEKaml dunno.
17:25 moritz no, it's dead
17:25 moritz dalek does all the reporting
17:26 tadzik thou it shall be removed
17:26 yegor joined #perl6
17:26 tadzik zaslon as well, no?
17:26 moritz seems like
17:27 tadzik and lisppaste
17:27 tadzik ...and lambdabot
17:27 tadzik the list suddenly became short and clear
17:28 tadzik oh, I thought mubot is present sometimes, is it?
17:28 tadzik seen mubot
17:28 aloha Sorry, I haven't seen mubot.
17:28 tadzik aloha should be added
17:28 tadzik karma dalek
17:28 aloha dalek has karma of 2.
17:30 dalek perl6.org: f9fb952 | tadzik++ | source/community/irc.html:
17:30 dalek perl6.org: More bots updates
17:30 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/f9fb952b58
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17:39 JimmyZ__ jnthn: ping
17:41 miso2217 is it possible to use something like \w+ in a multitoken: multi token t:sym<\w+> { <sym>} ?
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17:45 PerlJam miso2217: interesting.  I doubt it though
17:45 PerlJam (but what do I know?  Try it and see!)
17:46 PerlJam miso2217: though if you really wanted \w+, why did you write <sym> ?
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17:50 miso2217 PerlJam I thing the sum is mandatary as the argument name of a prototoken
17:50 miso2217 PerlJam: I thing the sum is mandatary as the argument name of a prototoken
17:50 miso2217 s/sum/sym/
17:52 miso2217 PerlJam: tried it and it didn't, may be my question sould have been "is it supposed to work"?
17:52 PerlJam miso2217: How I've been looking at it so far is when you say  token category:sym<foo>  { <pattern> } then "foo" is just a name for that particular pattern
17:52 PerlJam (you just get the added benefit that <sym> will match that name in the regex)
17:53 jfried joined #perl6
17:54 miso2217 PerlJam: Ah didn't get it that way so may be token t:sym<foo> { \w+ } could work? I'll try that one.
17:55 PZt joined #perl6
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18:06 jaffa4 hi
18:06 jaffa4 I cannot compile nietza becaise it fails with an error
18:10 PerlJam jaffa4: is the error "misspelled compiler name"?   ;)
18:10 jaffa4 ny()Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker
18:10 jaffa4 at cza\niecza\src\NAME.pm6 line 6:
18:12 jaffa4 another disappointment
18:13 jaffa4 figured out
18:13 jaffa4 stranged test == dos line endings
18:13 jaffa4 stranged text == dos line endings
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18:33 mberends just compiled latest niecza here, it passed all its 1650 spectests on 32 bit Linux.
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18:37 jnthn evening o/
18:38 colomon \o
18:38 jnthn Ah...my favorite Stockholm hotel :)
18:38 * jnthn can't take too much advantage of the Czech beer on tap though... :)
18:38 MindosCheng \o o/
18:39 isBEKaml .oO(tapbeer ?)
18:40 jnthn The opposite of bottled :)
18:40 isBEKaml tapwater, tapbeer, tapstuff. :)
18:40 jnthn .oO( if I drink enough of it, will I tapdance? )
18:41 isBEKaml try it and let us know! :)
18:42 isBEKaml .oO( tap jnthn dancing )?
18:42 MindosCheng \o          o/            \\o            o//                \o/
18:43 MindosCheng (Some exercise after hacking to long)
18:43 mberends jnthn: TAP == Taste Any Pivo?
18:43 jnthn :D
18:44 jnthn Test *All* Pivo of course. :)
18:44 mberends :)
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18:49 jaffa4 where is the test suite resutl?
18:52 mberends jaffa4: if you mean to test niecza, you need to first git clone https://github.com/perl6/roast.git and make a symbolic link to it before running `make spectest`
18:53 tadzik how many does rakudo pass?
18:53 flussence in roast?
18:53 tadzik aye
18:54 flussence http://smolder.parrot.org/a​pp/projects/smoke_reports/5
18:54 mberends 1650 tests passed in 101 files
18:54 mberends oh, rakudo, sorry, I wrote about niecza :/
18:56 mberends so rakudo passes 27636 tests in 548 files
18:56 jaffa4 there is one problem with rakudo now.
18:56 jaffa4 It is slow.
18:57 PerlJam If that were the only problem, we'd be doing happy dances more here.
18:57 TimToady jaffa4++ is correct, though, that if rakudo ran as fast as Perl 5, it would already be a better Perl
18:57 molaf left #perl6
18:58 TimToady (except for CPAN, of course)
18:58 flussence I noticed it's got a lot better about RAM usage lately
18:58 PerlJam It would be better as long as you choose a judicious axis along whcih to compare them  ;)
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19:16 jnthn It probably doesn't even needs to be as fast as Perl 5 in the immediate future. It just needs to not be glacial.
19:17 jaffa4 glacial?
19:17 hanekomu left #perl6
19:17 jnthn jaffa4: How fast to glaciers move? :)
19:17 jnthn *do
19:17 jaffa4 ok
19:17 hanekomu joined #perl6
19:17 SHODAN fast?
19:17 jnthn jaffa4: But really I mean, not ridiculously slow.
19:18 jnthn It'd be less bad if you only ran into it when doing performance sensitive stuff. Right now you run into it when doing just about anything non-trivial.
19:19 jaffa4 Is this mainly parrot related or code generated is not optimal?
19:20 PerlJam jaffa4: there are very few optimizations at any level in the code.
19:20 jnthn Bit of both, but also things that could be optimized generally haven't been so far.
19:21 jnthn flussence: Better RAM usage will at least partly be thanks to the generational GC, I suspect.
19:21 jnthn It collects much more often, so you accumulate less garbage.
19:25 jaffa4 the optimising phase
19:25 jaffa4 When is it planned?
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19:31 jaffa4 rakudo: say 3**3;
19:31 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«27␤»
19:32 tadzik jaffa4: well volunteered :)
19:32 tadzik seriously, I feel like someone picking up Parrot's tree-optimizer and making use of it could do wonders
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19:34 PerlJam jaffa4: sometime after 6model lands would be a good time  :)
19:35 jaffa4 What 6model?
19:36 PerlJam jaffa4: 6model is the new basis for all things object that jnthn has been working on.
19:37 GinoMan joined #perl6
19:41 jnthn jaffa4: https://github.com/jnthn/6mo​del/blob/master/overview.pod gives an overview
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19:50 masak lol hai zebras
19:51 jnthn o/ maszak
19:51 PerlJam mas zak?
19:51 jnthn I added more 'z's 'cus he's in .pl :P
19:51 masak czesc
19:51 isBEKaml majak!
19:51 PerlJam ah
19:51 masak I'm indeed in .pl
19:52 masak my z key is looking tired just by being here :)
19:52 jaffa4 mashak?
19:53 masak I see I'm having my name refactored today :P
19:53 jaffa4 By the way, how do you pronounce it?
19:54 masak jaffa4: mæːsak
19:54 jaffa4 It is not ENglish
19:54 masak no.
19:55 masak you can't show pronunciation with the English phonology :P
19:55 jaffa4 first, is like mother?
19:56 masak the consonant, yes.
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19:57 masak ooh, kudos to whoever set up https://github.com/perl6/misc/wiki/Get-Into-Perl6
19:57 masak I hadn't seen that before.
20:05 PerlJam I think that was tadzik
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20:09 masak if someone is still interested in signing up for my CQRS mini-course, you can do so now over at http://doodle.com/g6vsp3h3rs5cnk2v
20:09 masak I'll wait a few minutes, and if no-one else signs up, I'll decide a date and time.
20:10 isBEKaml masak: CQRS -- DDD ?
20:10 masak isBEKaml: yep.
20:10 masak golden opportunity.
20:10 isBEKaml masak: dunno. It's funny that I was looking at CQS a few days ago, random clicking th net.
20:11 masak isBEKaml: I'm in Poland because I just took a three-day course on CQRS.
20:11 masak I'd like to pass this on, because it's great stuff.
20:11 isBEKaml masak: CQRS course in Poland? wow, you must be a globe trotter for courses? students for courses? :P
20:12 masak I'm assuming those were three rethorical questions... :)
20:12 isBEKaml .oO(horses for courses)
20:12 masak because I don't see what I should reply :P
20:12 isBEKaml the second one wasn't. I seem to have a bad rep for affixing question marks to sentences, when I don't mean anything in there. :P
20:13 masak I've been doing the opposite lately.
20:13 masak no, I don't travel to go to courses that often, actually.
20:13 masak more often travel to go speak at confs.
20:13 isBEKaml Nice.
20:14 isBEKaml How do you plan to hold that course? online?
20:14 isBEKaml doodles, slides or screencasts?
20:15 isBEKaml however it is, I'll just sign up. :)
20:15 masak <TimToady> jaffa4++ is correct, though, that if rakudo ran as fast as Perl 5, it would already be a better Perl
20:15 masak I'm only half agreeing.
20:15 masak Perl 5 has one big win: it's very mature.
20:15 masak isBEKaml: please do.
20:15 masak isBEKaml: I haven't decided on the format yet.
20:16 masak isBEKaml: I'm thinking ditaa graphs and Perl 6 gists, though.
20:17 tadzik cześć masaku
20:18 masak domo arigato, cześć bardzo.
20:19 isBEKaml masak: registered. excited! :)
20:19 masak \o/
20:19 isBEKaml japanese and czech in a single sentence? :D
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20:20 masak I was... ad-libbing...
20:21 masak ok, Doodle closed. Friday 18:00-20:00 UTC it is.
20:22 moritz \o/
20:22 isBEKaml \o/
20:22 isBEKaml that's actually close to midnight here. I'm fine with it though, but don't expect me to ask questions. :P
20:22 ymasory left #perl6
20:23 masak isBEKaml: you'll be as active as you want, of course.
20:23 isBEKaml masak: sure, sure. considering that it's about 2 am here right now. ;)
20:24 masak isBEKaml: then you have no excuse, buddy :P
20:24 isBEKaml masak: I do, actually. It's off day today. Friday's work day. :P
20:26 molaf joined #perl6
20:27 masak isBEKaml: when you're staying up late, isn't it more important what kind of day it is the next day?
20:27 isBEKaml masak: Before that kicks in, you come back from a long commute. ;)
20:28 isBEKaml masak: enufffighting, friday 1800hrs UTC, I'll be there.
20:28 masak :)
20:29 isBEKaml yapsi: say say; # does that still timeout over latency?
20:29 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:29 isBEKaml pfft
20:29 masak oh, and Yapsi doesn't parse comments yet.
20:30 masak so that would actually not parse.
20:30 isBEKaml masak: that wasn't about comments.
20:30 isBEKaml yapsi: say 42;
20:31 masak I know.
20:31 p6eval yapsi: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
20:31 masak Yapsi is slow :(
20:31 masak even with precompilation, I suspect.
20:31 masak the FUTURE added some extra cost.
20:31 icwiener left #perl6
20:31 isBEKaml It runs here, but not on appflux (?)
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20:48 jaffa4 your calendar
20:48 jaffa4 masak
20:48 * masak and jaffa4 privmsg
20:49 pmurias joined #perl6
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20:59 masak seems I'll likely get jaffa4 for the Friday course as well :)
21:01 colomon masak++
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21:18 jasonmay https://gist.github.com/918438
21:18 jasonmay it got all out of order, oh well
21:19 jasonmay am I just supposed to not write my app this way?
21:20 jasonmay I'm not sure if the fact that my class starts with Foo:: but doesn't extend Foo is an issue
21:20 jasonmay (rakudo)
21:22 wallberg joined #perl6
21:23 masak jasonmay: yes. this is a rakudobug.
21:24 masak jasonmay: workaround: do 'class Foo { ... }' before doing 'use Foo::Bar'
21:24 masak jasonmay: (with the three dots really being three dots)
21:29 jasonmay that works, thanks!
21:30 masak \o/
21:30 masak I promised I would share an Amazon wishlist with books recommended from the CQRS course by Greg Young.
21:31 masak here it is: http://www.amazon.co.uk/reg​istry/wishlist/S1CF4BDV38BL
21:31 masak that's in no particular order.
21:44 pmurias masak: the little lisper?
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22:03 masak interesting post with an interesting presentation in it: http://www.dagolden.com/index.php​/1446/is-javascript-the-new-perl/
22:03 masak 'night, #javascript
22:03 masak er. I mean. :)
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22:52 sorear good * #perl6
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23:20 diakopter \
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23:39 lue hello world! o/
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23:43 sorear hellue
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