Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-15

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:24 sorear good * #perl6
00:25 colomon \o
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02:08 tadzik o/
02:08 tadzik gosh, I think my wrist's broken
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02:24 sorear tadzik: owww, I did that once
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05:11 dalek roast: 3d1828e | (Martin Berends)++ | S32-str/flip.t:
05:11 dalek roast: [S32-str/flip.t] fudge 2 grapheme tests for niecza
05:11 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3d1828e4a4
05:24 sorear mberends \o/
05:25 mberends sorear: flip commit coming soon, spectesting...
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05:31 dalek niecza: 9e6dc8b | (Martin Berends)++ | / (5 files):
05:31 dalek niecza: add string flip() method and function and enable 13 spectests
05:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9e6dc8bdc1
05:31 sorear 13 spectest files?
05:32 sorear !?
05:32 mberends 13 tests only (out of 15) in S32-str/flip.t
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05:34 mberends dayjob &
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08:38 miso2217 morning all
08:38 miso2217 is longest token matching implemented in rakudo?
08:38 miso2217 rakudo: my token ab { 'ab' }; my token abb { 'abb' }; if ('abb' ~~ /<&ab> | <&abb> /) { say 'match:', $/; } else { say 'no match'; };
08:38 p6eval rakudo 4bf132: OUTPUT«match:ab␤»
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08:41 moritz miso2217: no
08:44 miso2217 moritz: clear end simple answer :-)
08:46 miso2217 moritz: the spectest in S05 is wrong, should it be reported somewhere? ( /<ab> | <abb> / instead of  /<&ab> | <&abb> /)
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09:02 moritz miso2217: which file?
09:17 miso2217 moritz: https://github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master/S​05-metasyntax/longest-alternative.t#L55-L127
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09:28 moritz miso2217: you're right, fixing...
09:31 moritz niecza: say 'abcdefg' ~~ m:c(2)/.+/
09:31 p6eval niecza v4-57-g9e6dc8b: OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
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09:32 moritz phenny: tell sorear that I find it weird that niecza just ignores adverbs on regex - if there's one present that is not handled yet, IMHO it's better to die (example: m:c(2)/.../)
09:32 phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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09:33 moritz there's more in that file which needs fixing...
09:36 dalek roast: 1c3c6f7 | moritz++ | S05-metasyntax/longest-alternative.t:
09:36 dalek roast: clean up longest-alternative.t
09:36 dalek roast:
09:36 dalek roast: * use lexical tokens, reported by miso2217++
09:36 dalek roast: * stop relying on outdate :g in scalar context behavior
09:36 dalek roast: * Grammar.parse(:action*s*)
09:36 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/1c3c6f7950
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11:17 dalek rakudo: b63fa28 | petdance++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
11:17 dalek rakudo: removed unused variables. Added some consts.
11:17 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b63fa28672
11:17 dalek rakudo: 5ac05ef | petdance++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
11:17 dalek rakudo: consted pointers
11:17 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5ac05ef107
11:22 tadzik o/
11:22 tadzik wassup #perl6
11:22 * moritz tests parrot patches for the rakudo segfaults
11:25 mberends tadzik: is your wrist okay? (I once had a painful inline-skate fall)
11:29 tadzik mberends: not really, I have this big, heavy white thing all over my hand :(
11:29 tadzik thy're not sure if it's a little bit broken or just heavily twisted
11:30 mberends owww, I wish you a healthy recovery
11:31 * moritz too
11:32 tadzik thank you
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12:11 bbkr_ ah, joy of falls and broken bones :)
12:14 tadzik :P
12:14 takadonet morning all
12:14 tadzik hello takadonet
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13:47 newguy anyone home?
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13:48 newguy i am new to perl6, will need some help
13:48 newguy how
13:48 newguy how can I add two numbers and print to the screen?
13:49 PerlJam rakudo:  say 4 + 5;
13:49 p6eval rakudo 5ac05e: OUTPUT«9␤»
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13:49 newguy I have downloaded and installed Rakudo on my Vista computer. How do I "compile" a .pl file?
13:50 moritz with   perl6 yourfile.pl  it is compiled and immediately executed
13:50 PerlJam newguy: perl6 file.pl
13:51 newguy > perl6 samtest.pl Could not find sub &samtest
13:52 newguy I am using the perl6.exe black window to do this?
13:52 moritz nope
13:52 moritz start a command window
13:52 moritz and there type  perl6 sametest.pl
13:52 newguy msdos?
13:53 moritz yes
13:53 moritz or you can associate .pl files with the perl6 binary
13:53 moritz then you can just double-click the file in the windows explorer
13:54 PerlJam newguy: What is your intent in learning Perl 6?  Just for fun?
13:54 newguy to create a batch of text files changing variables in each one.
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13:56 sorear good * #perl6
13:56 phenny sorear: 09:32Z <moritz> tell sorear that I find it weird that niecza just ignores adverbs on regex - if there's one present that is not handled yet, IMHO it's better to die (example: m:c(2)/.../)
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13:58 newguy OK, my results c:\Perl\bin>perl6 samtest.pl 'perl6' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
13:59 moritz since it probably didn't install into c:\Perl\bin you need to add the install location to %PATH%
13:59 moritz or use the fully qualified path to the perl6 binary
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14:00 pmurias sorear: hi
14:01 sorear moritz: odd... I'll look into it.
14:02 moritz niecza: say 'abcdefg' ~~ m:c(2)/.+/
14:02 p6eval niecza v4-57-g9e6dc8b: OUTPUT«abcdefg␤»
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14:14 newguy Eureka! My first successful "Hello World" with rakudo on Vista!
14:14 moritz \o/
14:14 newguy thank you moritz!
14:15 dalek niecza: b210553 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (5 files):
14:15 dalek niecza: [hoopl] added a constant propagation pass which does nothing but
14:15 dalek niecza: typechecks
14:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b210553e1b
14:15 dalek niecza: 535c736 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ConstProp.hs:
14:15 dalek niecza: [hoopl] constant folding for bif_plus
14:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/535c736e0d
14:15 pmurias sorear: say (2+1)+3 is now optimised to say 6 :)
14:15 dalek niecza: ad6f3a5 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ConstProp.hs:
14:15 dalek niecza: [hoopl] constant registers are replaced with constants
14:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ad6f3a5a1c
14:15 dalek niecza: 5615c21 | pmurias++ | hoopl/nam.hs:
14:15 dalek niecza: [hoopl] debugging output is more descriptive
14:15 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5615c21373
14:15 moritz newguy: you're welcome. Have fun hacking!
14:17 newguy msg moritz and I think this is how I PM in IRC..?
14:17 newguy nope
14:18 pmurias /msg
14:18 pmurias at least in irssi
14:19 dalek niecza: a31f8f4 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (2 files):
14:19 dalek niecza: [hoopl] fix ghc warnings
14:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a31f8f47a2
14:23 isBEKaml pmurias: what's hoopl?
14:27 sorear pmurias: awesome
14:28 isBEKaml pmurias: nm, http://hackage.haskell.org/package/hoopl. rock on!
14:33 TimToady ooh, a newguy!
14:33 newguy me?
14:34 isBEKaml newguy: welcome to perl6land! :)
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14:49 sorear newguy: welcome from me too!
14:49 sorear niecza: say "a b" ~~ m:s/a b/
14:49 p6eval niecza v4-62-ga31f8f4: OUTPUT«a b␤»
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14:57 isBEKaml rakudo: say 42
14:57 p6eval rakudo 5ac05e: OUTPUT«42␤»
14:58 * sorear checks out moritz' regex adverb stuff in rakudo
15:01 moritz it's a bit hacky
15:06 sorear niecza: sub foo($x) { constant %h = ( a => 1, b => (say 3; 2) ); %h{$x} }; say foo('a'); say foo('b')
15:06 p6eval niecza v4-62-ga31f8f4: OUTPUT«3␤1␤2␤»
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15:13 sorear hrm
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15:13 sorear m/foo/ # rakudo: $_.match(/foo/)  niecza: /foo/.ACCEPTS($_)
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15:47 dalek niecza: bdcd777 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
15:47 dalek niecza: Parse regex modifiers and complain about NYI ones
15:47 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bdcd7776dd
15:48 sorear likewise, s/foo/bar/ # rakudo: $_ = $_.subst(/foo/, {bar})  niecza: _subst($_, /foo/, {bar})
15:48 sorear I guess the Rakudo way is probably more correct here? ( moritz TimToady )
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16:01 Kharec hi
16:01 Kharec is there a way to checkout the perl6 svn/git ?
16:01 Kharec I didn't find any link on perl6 website
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16:03 newguy what is the command to create a simple text file from Perl6?
16:05 sorear Kharec: depends on what you want to do.  There are a lot of Perl 6 related repositories
16:05 PerlJam Kharec: https://perlpilot@github.com/rakudo/star.git
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16:05 PerlJam Kharec: that's Rakudo Star, a perl 6 distribution.
16:05 Kharec sorear: I want to work on perl6 code.
16:05 sorear newguy: spew($name, $contents)
16:06 PerlJam Kharec: If you're looking to contribute, we have several Perl 6 implementations, each with their own repositories
16:06 Kharec on parrot, by example?
16:06 Kharec It's on parrot which I want to work.
16:06 PerlJam Kharec: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
16:06 sorear The only Perl 6 implementation on Parrot currently is Rakudo
16:07 PerlJam oops, that first URL apparently has my github id in it.  Ignore that part :)
16:08 Kharec thanks
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16:09 PerlJam bummer
16:09 PerlJam I wish he would have stuck around.
16:09 PerlJam Hopefully he'll clone the rakudo repo and then be back
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16:16 sorear TimToady: consider 「my $foo = "ab"; $foo ~~ m:rw/(.)(.)/; $1 = "cd"; $2 = "ef"; say $foo」.  What should this do?  How should it do it?
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16:23 dalek niecza: 4b7a361 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (2 files):
16:23 dalek niecza: [hoopl] refactor the passes, add helper mapE and insnToGraph functions
16:23 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4b7a361b0e
16:23 pmurias how can optimalisations be tested?
16:24 pmurias all tests run correctly and specified tests run faster after they have been applied?
16:29 tadzik hmm, 2 new 6perlists today
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16:38 dalek niecza: 79da9b6 | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (4 files):
16:38 dalek niecza: [hoopl] constant folding for bif_minus and bif_divide
16:38 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/79da9b6f5a
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16:42 pmurias sorear: if you look at the commit you'll see that adding support for a new opcode require a lot of code, any ideas how that could be reduced
16:42 pmurias ?
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16:45 newguy having problem creating new file from perl.  What's the command? Do you use file handle?
16:46 tadzik use open()
16:46 newguy even if the file does not exist?
16:47 takadonet my $ fh = open($file,:w);
16:48 tadzik like in C :)
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16:57 masak oh hai zebras!
16:57 masak an hour and a few minutes remain till the #cqrs-perl6 mini-course. open invitation; come as you are.
16:57 sorear hello mzsak.
16:58 masak hi zorear.
16:58 sorear I hear you think I'm famous.
16:58 pmurias masak: will it be logged?
16:58 tadzik masak: o/
16:58 masak sorear: yes, and I think you're only getting started.
16:58 masak pmurias: yes.
16:59 * masak prepares a bit of course material
16:59 pmurias left #perl6
17:00 * sorear attempts to find out what CQRS is
17:01 masak let me know how that goes :)
17:02 moritz sorear: /join #/w 16
17:02 moritz sorry
17:02 moritz sorear: /join #cqrs-perl6 and find out
17:03 masak sorear: what moritz said. class starts in an hour, lasts for two, and is free :)
17:08 moritz newguy: my $file = open($filename, :w); $file.say("new line"); $file.close;
17:08 masak moritz++
17:08 moritz newguy: the .close is important, otherwise the file might not get written at all
17:08 moritz (which is a bug in rakudo, but one that's not easily fixed)
17:09 masak there are no guarantees for timely DESTROY, or even that DESTROY is called at all.
17:09 moritz not a good language for world destruction :-)
17:10 newguy moritz: so i need to define variable $file above that line right?
17:10 moritz newguy: no, just $filename
17:11 moritz or just use a literal string there
17:11 sorear Why isn't the hash sigil #?
17:11 newguy moritz: ok will try now
17:11 moritz the 'my' already declares the $file variable
17:11 moritz sorear: because that's for comments :-)
17:11 masak my $file = open('README', :w);
17:11 moritz NOOO
17:11 moritz don't override the README file! :-)
17:11 sorear I've seen other characters besides # used for comments
17:11 masak no-one reads it anyway :P
17:11 newguy moritz: so what would be the file name that is created in my directory?
17:12 moritz newguy: if you have  my $filename = 'output.txt';  the the file will be called output.txt
17:12 sorear #, %, *, \, ", ', ;, : I think are all the end-of-line comment chars I've seen
17:14 moritz sorear: I think the mapping from symbol to meaning is primarily historical, and less bound to the name of the symbol
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17:14 moritz .u zip
17:14 phenny U+A290 YI SYLLABLE ZIP (ꊐ)
17:14 moritz we could use that instead of infix:<Z>
17:14 moritz people would hate us :-)
17:14 moritz I mean, more than they do now :-)
17:15 tadzik I just imagined like 10 yrs ago people thought "we can use » instead of >>... but no, people will hate us" :)
17:16 masak 10 yrs later... they do :)
17:16 newguy moritz: It works... now i need to learn how to manipulate text
17:17 masak newguy: that's the fun part! :)
17:17 masak newguy: Perl is very good at manipulating text.
17:18 newguy moritz: I am network administrator.  I will be using this to create script files that get applied to routers on a WAN
17:18 sorear tadzik: ~10 years ago Perl 6 was much more APLy
17:20 tadzik sorear: APLy?
17:20 masak really?
17:20 masak we've gotten *more* metaops since then.
17:24 masak I'd say 10 years ago, Perl 6 was a lot more like Perl 5.
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17:28 sorear AIUI, early Perl 6 relied on Unicode operators for a lot of stuff
17:29 masak oh, that's what you meant. yes.
17:29 masak there was the yen symbol for zipping, for example.
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17:29 masak but you could also use a 'Y', I think.
17:30 sorear how would that interact with unspace?
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17:30 sorear aren't the yen and backslash encoded ambiguously in a lot of Japanese encodigng?
17:30 masak not sure how that'd work out.
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17:33 PerlJam masak: 10 years ago Perl 6 was a lot more like Perl 5 ....  along which axes?  ;)
17:33 masak PerlJam: syntax-wise, for example.
17:34 masak PerlJam: also the terminology was a lot more alike.
17:34 masak PerlJam: look at E03, which ends by stating how little you need to change for it to be valid Perl 6.
17:34 masak might've been E02, I don't remember.
17:34 PerlJam Hmm.
17:34 masak it's something like "96% similar!"
17:35 PerlJam I think I agree.
17:35 PerlJam aside from the Regex revamp, Perl 6 was a lot like Perl 5 back then
17:35 masak ...which makes sense, of course.
17:36 PerlJam and if you compare Perl 6 then with Perl 5 *now*  they were even *more* similar
17:36 moritz modulo sigl invariance
17:36 masak :)
17:36 masak and parens.
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17:37 masak 24 minutes to #cqrs-perl6. feel free to drop in.
17:37 PerlJam So ... Perl 5 is slowly evolving into Perl 6, it's just 10-20 years behind the state-of-the-art
17:37 PerlJam ;-)
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17:41 masak PerlJam: big words from a language whose most featureful implementation is 1e2-1e4 slower than Perl 5 :)
17:41 PerlJam That's just an implementation detail.
17:41 PerlJam :)
17:43 masak ...they cheerfully declared, and set of on their long road to obscurity and obsolesence... :)
17:43 * masak seems to be channeling the Grinch today
17:46 PerlJam It sounded slightly Tolkienesque though
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17:55 patrickas o/ Zs
17:55 patrickas can someone close RT #86764 if no one obejects to it?
17:57 * moritz takes a look
17:58 moritz rakudo: say (1, 2, 3).Array.perl
17:58 p6eval rakudo 5ac05e: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
17:58 moritz patrickas: do we have a test?
17:58 patrickas I think we have three :-)
17:59 moritz great
17:59 patrickas https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3​977901182bb3ca9219b5ca902ece1eb8adaf845
17:59 patrickas but I keep forgetting the thingy that triggers a mail to RT when I add tests :(
18:00 moritz the mailer might be sleeping
18:00 moritz patrickas: your commit message should have triggered it
18:01 patrickas oh ok
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18:32 newguy when output to a file... how do you go to new line? This does not work.. my $file = open($filename, :w); $file.say("new line1/nline2"); $file.close;
18:32 masak newguy: backslash.
18:33 newguy masak: like this?  $file.say("new line1\nline2")
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18:33 masak newguy: exactly.
18:34 newguy masak: does not work.. output is "new line1 line2 " all on 1 line
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18:37 tadzik windows line endings?
18:37 tadzik try \r\n or something
18:40 PerlJam tadzik: \n is still a logical newline I think, so it should work no matter the OS
18:41 tadzik dunno
18:41 newguy thanks. this works $file.say("new line1\r\nline2"); $file.close
18:41 PerlJam interesting.
18:41 newguy im using raduko on vista
18:42 sorear rakudo
18:42 newguy oops.. I am newguy :P
18:43 patrickas using rakudo, \n inserts char 0x0a on windows 7 too
18:43 masak that's a rakudobug.
18:44 masak please submit it.
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18:56 flussence .oO( what if you *need* a \n? )
18:58 masak flussence: chr(10), perhaps.
18:58 flussence oh, I always forget the obvious stuff :)
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19:18 newguy ok im signing out for the day.  Today i wrote hello world and output blah to a new text file!
19:18 masak newguy++
19:18 masak o/
19:19 newguy and
19:19 newguy masek: yes i will be using "++" next to increment numbers in an array to each of my text file
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19:20 masak :)
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20:16 rindolf Hi all.
20:16 masak hi rindolf.
20:16 rindolf masak: what's up?
20:16 masak giving a course :)
20:16 masak rindolf: and you?
20:16 rindolf masak: checking Twitter.
20:17 rindolf masak: worked on http://www.shlomifish.org/philoso​phy/foss-other-beasts/version-3/ today (Please don't print.)
20:17 masak :)
20:18 rindolf masak: and I published http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human​-hacking/human-hacking-field-guide-v2/
20:19 rindolf masak: which course are you giving?
20:19 masak rindolf: #cqrs-perl6.
20:19 masak rindolf: it's almost over. been at it for 2.5 hours now.
20:20 rindolf masak: what is CQRS?
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20:22 masak rindolf: that's what I'm trying to convey in the course :)
20:22 masak rindolf: you can backlog that channel if you like.
20:22 rindolf masak: :-S
20:23 masak rindolf: it's *because* it's non-trivial to explain that I'm holding the course :)
20:25 moritz rindolf: it's basically an architecture style where you separate commands to a backend from their responsens
20:25 rindolf moritz: ah.
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20:57 jnthn phew, home :)
20:57 masak jnthn: welcome back! \o/
20:57 jnthn :)
20:57 rindolf jnthn: hi.
20:57 rindolf jnthn: what's up?
20:58 tadzik jnthn: o/
20:58 jnthn rindolf: Just back from a trip to teach a couple of classes. So I'm tired, but all is well. :)
20:58 rindolf jnthn: ah, OK.
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21:09 sorear hello jnthn
21:09 jnthn o/ sorear
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21:49 ruben1194navarro hey anyone knows if pugs is faster than rakudo
21:49 pmurias why do you ask?
21:49 masak ruben1194navarro: I think it might be in some cases. but speed isn't everything.
21:50 masak ruben1194navarro: Rakudo is more featureful in almost all respects nowadays.
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21:50 masak ruben1194navarro: if you want speed more than features, have a look at Niecza.
21:50 ruben1194navarro ooh thanks ill check it out
21:52 masak as usual, resources over at perl6.org
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22:06 masak 'night, #perl6.
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