Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:18 ray24 First time trying out perl
00:18 ray24 I expect to devise a software within 6 hours from now
00:25 sorear How much do you want it to do?
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01:03 ray24 I want to build something like facebook
01:03 ray24 all by myself
01:03 ray24 then patent it
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01:34 tylercurtis ray24: That may be slightly ambitious for 6 hours with a tool you're unfamiliar with.
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01:53 ray24 devising a plan shouldn't take more than 6 hours
02:11 sorear Patenting software is grounds for burning at the stake around here.
02:14 ray24 how so?
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06:06 ray24 Facebook doesn't seem like a hard idea to come up with
06:07 moritz then you can't patent it :-)
06:07 moritz and it's already implemented
06:07 moritz so, you're out of luck
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06:38 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
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06:47 Su-Shee good morning everyone.
06:48 Su-Shee I had the disturbing dream that I cooked a 6 course menu for all of you.
06:49 * moritz wouldn't find it disturbing to eb on the receiving end of such a dream :-)
06:49 Su-Shee home made pasta and a large tiramisu were part of it.
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06:59 sorear phenny: "tiramisu"
06:59 sorear phenny: "tiramisu"?
06:59 phenny sorear: "tiramisu" (sk to en, translate.google.com)
06:59 Su-Shee sorear: the italian dessert?
07:00 sorear never heard of it, figured it was a ja word, but phenny says sk
07:00 Su-Shee sorear: it's italian biscuits dipped in strong espresso stacked with a kind-of creamcheese slightly sweetened cream. let sit for 12 hours or so.
07:01 Su-Shee sorear: it would be tira mi su (pull me over if I remember correctly)
07:02 Su-Shee http://www.tastespotting.com/search/tiramisu/1 (and following 8 pages ;)
07:02 jdhore Su-Shee, Italian food FTW
07:04 Su-Shee well french food made world culture heritage recently. recognized by the UNESCO and all. :)
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07:04 jdhore really? Interesting...
07:04 mathw what makes French food so special?
07:04 mathw Sure it's nice and all
07:04 mathw But it seems a strange thing to recognise
07:04 jdhore I don't know, that's why i find it interesting.
07:05 mathw Italian food is also nice, as is Japanese food and Chinese food and Thai food and English food (well, some of it) and...
07:05 Su-Shee mathw: culturally it's the "invention" of modern food in europe - courses, cooking by recipe, scientific background.
07:05 mathw aah yes
07:05 mathw of course, that was their fault wasn't it
07:05 jdhore mathw, The problem with Thai is it depends on the dish and the restaurant.
07:05 mathw jdhore: all food is like that though
07:05 mathw you can make bad anything
07:06 Su-Shee mathw: in europe, yes.
07:06 jdhore mathw, Depending on that, Thai can either be really good or really bad
07:06 mathw it's even possible to make bad yorkshire pudding
07:06 sorear here in the USA the French are sterotyped as loving fine food and cooking as their #1 character trait
07:06 jdhore True, but it's hard to screw up like a classic American burger...Unless you're McDonalds, but that doesn't count
07:07 Su-Shee mathw: in modern days, france cares extremely well for keeping variety, region and tradition up. in other countries you barely get 8 sorts of apples these days - in france they have associations of friends of apples and things like that.
07:08 Su-Shee mathw: though most european countries started to cultivate their culinary heritage :)
07:08 Su-Shee sorear: it really is different in france, even for a european. there's italy and france and then ..... comes the rest. ;)
07:09 jdhore sorear, Here (still USA), i think the French are known for looking good and their not caring attitude toward everything.
07:09 Su-Shee sorear: and there's the french paradox which usally amazes americans even more. :) on average, french people eat much more fat and are much more healthy and weight less. and now they marvel for a decade why :)
07:10 Su-Shee here, france is where to go to in the morning over the non-existing border to buy your croissants :) and where you move to after graduation if you're from the humanities department :)
07:11 mathw :)
07:11 mathw I stayed with a friend in a French part of Brussels once
07:11 mathw Fresh croissants and pain au chocolat every morning for breakfast from the bakery round the corner
07:11 mathw Delicious
07:11 Su-Shee no, jokes aside, in germany "french culture" is basically what we admire and import very willingly.
07:12 mathw In general in England we spend a lot of time very conflicted
07:12 Su-Shee with the french? of course, it's famously bickering between you two. :)
07:12 mathw We admire French food and the supposedly pervasive availability of fresh produce and wine and the like
07:12 mathw But we also hate them because they're French
07:12 mathw which I guess stems from spending centuries fighting them
07:13 Su-Shee if it weren't for prussian kings, germany wouldn't have bound itself to tightly to french values and culture. ;)
07:13 jdhore mathw, Are you a Top Gear fan? (This is a question i try to ask all the brits i talk to)
07:13 mathw Odd that the serious conflicts of the 20th century with Germany happened in some ways, because we always got on well with them before (probably because we were too busy fighting the French)
07:13 mathw jdhore: no, I think it's stupid
07:14 perigrin the stupidity is why people like it
07:14 perigrin at least it's why *I* like it.
07:14 jdhore I personally love it (specifically the earlier series'...like 1-8)
07:14 Su-Shee mathw: let's face it, we still somewhat love the differences between england, france, prussia and russia ;) and let's not forget the spaniards! ;)
07:15 jdhore I'm sort of surprised how it's the most popular TV program in the world by far and yet very few British people watch it
07:15 mathw Su-Shee: Unfortunately our perception of the Spanish has been hugely degraded by the idea that Spain is just somewhere you go to for a beach holiday
07:15 mathw jdhore: oh plenty of British people watch it, but plenty more hold it in contempt
07:15 Su-Shee my favorite british tv series is "spooks". in october.
07:15 mathw it's a bit like The X Factor in that regard, actually
07:15 perigrin though with slightly fewer Sun readers.
07:16 mathw But my opinion on the subject is largely that Jeremy Clarkson is a (can't say it in a publicly logged channel) and should be taken away and (can't say that either)
07:16 Su-Shee mathw: let me rephrase: I love living in europe and I would fight for the stupid moloch EU just for the open borders and the freedom to move everywhere. :)
07:16 jdhore mathw, I have the same opinion of X Factor that i do of American Idol...All the contestants are talent-less hacks.
07:16 mathw jdhore: my general opinion is that all the judges are deaf...
07:16 Su-Shee X Factor? *haha* german x factor casting was in front of my office yesterday and the day before. ;)
07:17 jdhore Now the sing-off (Basically X Factor, but acapella groups)...The contestants there i have epic respoect for because acapella is hard as HELL.
07:17 mathw a capella is insanely hard
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07:17 mathw you have to have a really good sense of tuning to pull that off
07:17 jdhore Yep...Just singing a Lady Gaga song is easy
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07:18 mathw Well, not necessarily
07:18 jdhore Taking a song with full band backing and doing it with just the voice...Mad respect
07:18 mathw although your average Lady Gaga song is going to be a lot easier than your average Handel aria
07:19 jdhore Except the group that covered Billy Joel's The Longest Time...It's not hard to cover a song that's already an acapella classic.
07:19 mathw Still hard to sing it well
07:19 Su-Shee mathw: oh god.. don't remind me.. my mother can sing Haendel's christmas stuff. ;)
07:19 mathw Arranging and performing are different skills
07:19 mathw Often done by different people
07:20 mathw Su-Shee: My singing teacher periodically gets me doing one, it's not easy but feels great when it works :)
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07:22 Su-Shee my mom digs classics, I basically got to sleep with bach, haendel and all that as a child. she dragged us into the opera before I went to school. ("peter and the wolf" - tchaikovsky.. :)
07:23 mathw I've never really got into opera
07:23 mathw Although I do like some of the early English opera, like Purcell's "The Fairy Queen"
07:23 Su-Shee me neither. I give it a try every 5 years again.
07:23 mathw assuming that's actually an opera, which it might not be, but it's very similar to an opera
07:23 Su-Shee I think in terms of music history opera as a genre was invented later.
07:24 mathw like most things in music, it just kind of gradually drifted in
07:24 mathw Certainly the modern idea of opera is a later development, but that didn't just pop into being one day
07:24 Su-Shee music isn't my thing, I always went straight for the visual arts.
07:25 mathw I most definitely don't like the kind of opera which apparently *has* to be sung in Italian, with so much vibrato that even if you do speak Italian you can't understand it (this is presumably to make the non-Italian-speakers feel better)
07:25 mathw Although there's plenty of that written in German too (*cough* Wagner)
07:26 Su-Shee uah.. *shiver* I hate Wagner. :)
07:26 mathw I have to give him credit for some things
07:26 mathw using anvils as an orchestral instrument is rather delightfully impractical
07:26 mathw but generally I'm happier not listening to it
07:27 Su-Shee oh totally and making people pay literally thousands of euros to sit through 6 hours of wagner is also quite a hack. :)
07:27 mathw I like (and play, and sing) renaissance, baroque and modern folk music
07:27 mathw the transition into the classical period always feels to me like the composers got lazy
07:28 mathw and some of the romantic music is just... argh
07:28 mathw And then there's stuff like Holst's Planets suite, in which the composer comes up with a neat little motif then beats the audience around the head with minor variations of it for half an hour
07:29 mathw Usually played with far too much vibrato, and too many violins
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09:20 Layla_91 yo yo yo! B-)
09:21 Layla_91 eh... lazy people :P
09:21 moritz good localtime Layla_91
09:22 Layla_91 good localtime moritz :P
09:22 Layla_91 :D
09:22 Layla_91 moritz: You should move to south and enjoy our time zones.. we have the best collection B-)
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09:24 Layla_91 plus p6 should look for people from different time zones to make the channel alive 24/7 B-)
09:24 moritz Layla_91: I wouldn't mind living somewhere further to the south (like mediterranian area)
09:25 jnthn morning, #perl6
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09:25 Layla_91 moritz: we have more sun and better health, plus we started civilization B-)
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09:26 Layla_91 moritz: By the way I must exclude myself from the health part since am under weight :P
09:26 moritz Layla_91: which country are you talking about, specifically?
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09:27 jnthn Layla_91: eat more chocolate!
09:27 Layla_91 mm.. Israel for starters.. Jordan and Egypt.. I love pyramids :-D
09:27 Layla_91 jnthn: \o/
09:28 moritz jnthn: I can tell from experience that some people with underweight can each as much chocolate as they want, and still don't gain weight
09:29 Layla_91 jnthn: I made many experiements regarding that point.. just for the sake of science.. :-|
09:29 jnthn Tasty, tasty science...
09:29 Layla_91 jnthn: even today morning ^_^
09:30 * jnthn makes coffee and looks at how badly he broke NQP yesterday
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09:33 jnthn nqp: my class Foo { our $x := 42; }; say($Foo::x)
09:33 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "my class F"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 17577 (gen/hllgrammar-grammar.pir:5028)␤»
09:33 Layla_91 jnthn: have more choclate :P It can help fixing inconsistent code :P
09:33 jnthn Layla_91: :P
09:33 Layla_91 jnthn: :D
09:33 Layla_91 g2g.. see you! :D
09:33 jnthn o/
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09:34 jnthn Oh...that nqp target is looking at master of course. :) And I'm in a branch. :)
09:35 moritz when you unbreak it, you could merge to master
09:35 moritz I mean, the branch has been building and testing successful all the time, no need to do it in a branch
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09:39 jnthn moritz: True.
09:39 moritz t/nqp/09-var.t .................. 1/13 Can only use get_who on a SixModelObject
09:39 jnthn Yup, there's a bunch like that.
09:40 jnthn I'm in the middle of re-doing package lookups.
09:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 0fbd19a | moritz++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
09:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: track a parrot function rename.
09:40 dalek nqp/ctmo:
09:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Enables building nqp on newer parrots
09:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0fbd19a5b9
09:40 moritz jnthn: I think that commit shouldn't cause any trouble on your current parrot revision - if it does, feel free to revert
09:41 jnthn moritz: OK, thanks.
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09:51 * mathw gets a wonderful excited fuzzy feeling whenever he sees '6model'
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09:53 moritz nqp: my @a = [1, 2, 3]; say @a
09:53 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 1, near " [1, 2, 3]"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 17577 (gen/hllgrammar-grammar.pir:5028)␤»
09:53 moritz nqp: my @a := [1, 2, 3]; say @a
09:53 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say @a"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 17577 (gen/hllgrammar-grammar.pir:5028)␤»
09:54 moritz nqp: my @a := [1, 2, 3]; say(@a)
09:54 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«3␤»
09:54 moritz jnthn: any objections to replacing Q:PIR { %r = new ['ResizablePMCArray']  with [] ?
09:57 jnthn moritz: no
09:57 jnthn moritz: Such changes make me happy, if they don't break anything :)
09:57 mathw it's a lot snappier
09:58 mathw :)
09:58 jnthn 6ier
09:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: 8b1d3e1 | moritz++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
09:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: remove two Q:PIR blocks from NQP::Actions
09:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8b1d3e1c4d
10:00 mathw very much so :)
10:00 mathw certainly I can see the advantages in having as few bits of PIR code as possible
10:01 moritz many of the pir:: calls are straight forward to implement in other languages
10:01 mathw I just regret that I've made myself so busy with things that I don't do any Perl 6 stuff at all anymore... I really should at least add a new feature to Form at some point.
10:02 moritz for example the pir::join and ::split and so on
10:02 mathw mmm
10:02 mathw yes
10:03 moritz but Q:PIR is a quite different beast
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10:07 jnthn moritz: Looks like that rename is fine.
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: f837f1c | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: Should have a $?PACKAGE in the initial scope. Fixes 09-var.t regression.
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f837f1c7b4
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: 42601fe | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: Fix a couple of bugs that broke 33-init.t.
10:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/42601febaa
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10:24 jnthn http://search.cpan.org/~riz​en/Ouch-0.0300/lib/Ouch.pm # ouch, kiss, hug...
10:24 jnthn That's one way to name your exception-related stuff. :)
10:26 moritz I've seen it, yes :-)
10:26 moritz kinda cute
10:26 moritz maybe too cuet
10:26 moritz *cute
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10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: 4d845cd | moritz++ | src/NQP/Grammar.pm:
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: be a bit more idiomatic in NQP::Grammar; no functional changes
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4d845cdd75
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: 57fa673 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: rewrite version string initialization with less PIR
10:29 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/57fa67384c
10:30 jnthn .oO( NQP hacking. It's contaigous. :D )
10:30 moritz indeed :-)
10:30 moritz I looked at your diffs and though "I can simplify that line"
10:32 jnthn moritz: src/Regex/P6Regex/Actions.pm seems to have a couple of LHF de-Q:PIR-ifications too :-)
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10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: 5a5392e | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: Install (what will be the) latest merged GLOBAL view. This unbreaks some uses of $GLOBAL::foo (and thus some of 43-package-var.t).
10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5a5392ea33
10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: 51ea2f3 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make sure we can always see the current $*GLOBALish.
10:43 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/51ea2f3698
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11:17 masak ahoy, zebras.
11:19 jnthn masak! \o/
11:19 jnthn masak: half-day? :)
11:20 masak yes!
11:20 jnthn sweden++
11:21 masak in the context of taking time off, we like to pretend that we still care about religion ;)
11:22 masak but in reality, "Easter" just means "buying cheap candy and putting it in egg-shaped containers for the children".
11:23 SHODAN don't forget about painting eggs
11:23 arnsholt Very important those fertility symbols ^_^
11:30 masak does anybody know how the eggs are related to the Christian mythology?
11:31 moritz masak: I'm just guessing: symbols for (re)birth
11:31 masak sounds sensible.
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11:31 jnthn afaik, what moritz said
11:31 jnthn symbol of new life
11:34 masak so is grain, then.
11:35 masak and a chrysalis :) though I wouldn't want to eat one.
11:44 arnsholt I've been told they aren't related to the Christian mythology (or at least have been coopted from pagan rituals)
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11:59 takadonet morning all
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12:02 masak takadonet: \o
12:02 jnthn o/ takadonet
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12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: 46e3495 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: A little refactor to the symbol lookup code to make it neater.
12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/46e3495542
12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: 3008506 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: First cut of package auto-viv using the new package scheme. Enabled just for variable accesses in lexical packages for now.
12:37 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3008506063
12:38 colomon hey, isn't this release day?
12:38 jnthn Think so.
12:39 jnthn I think somebody signed up for it too, forget who.
12:42 * masak checks
12:42 masak PerlJam.
12:43 masak ...and next month it's jdhore.
12:47 colomon PerlJam++
12:48 Moukeddar jdhore, like J'adore ?
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12:53 masak Moukeddar: whatever floats your boat.
12:54 Moukeddar masak, it sank :p
12:55 jnthn After it quatre?
12:56 * masak .oO( what were we sinking? )
12:56 Moukeddar lol
12:56 Moukeddar you Frenchy
12:57 masak mathw: now listening to Purcell. not bad. :)
12:57 mathw he wrote some good stuff
12:58 mathw I'm doing a Purcell song in singing lessons at the moment
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13:01 masak rakudo: class Cow { method moo { "moo!" } }; role Holy { method moo { "holy {nextsame}" } }; given Cow.new { $_ does Holy; say .moo }
13:01 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«moo!␤»
13:01 masak rakudo: class Cow { method moo { "moo!" } }; role Holy { method moo { "holy {callsame}" } }; given Cow.new { $_ does Holy; say .moo }
13:01 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«holy moo!␤»
13:03 Moukeddar weird
13:03 Moukeddar where did holy go in the first example?
13:03 masak I accidentally a nextsame.
13:03 masak so Holy.moo called Cow.moo and didn't come back.
13:03 jnthn next is tailcally
13:03 masak that's the difference -- callsame comes back, nextsame doesn't.
13:03 masak what jnthn said.
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13:10 tadzik hello pandas
13:11 jnthn o/ tadzik
13:11 Moukeddar pandas ?
13:11 Moukeddar the evil ones?
13:11 tadzik yeah
13:11 Moukeddar bad choice
13:12 colomon Moukeddar: http://modules.perl6.org/  -- look to the rightmost column
13:12 tadzik Moukeddar: http://goo.gl/lK5oX -- look at the hate in the eyes
13:13 Moukeddar thank you tadzik
13:13 Moukeddar no i'll have some nightmares
13:13 Moukeddar perl6 chosed panda for their spec icon ?
13:13 tadzik Pandas: the best choice since Zebras
13:13 tadzik Moukeddar: no, it's the mascott of the module manager I wrote
13:13 Moukeddar all black and white
13:13 Moukeddar there are colorful animals AFAIK
13:14 jnthn http://goo.gl/lK5oX doesn't look hateful to me, it just looks like it needs a hug.
13:14 Moukeddar tadzik, that panda looks straight in my soul
13:15 colomon tadzik: BTW, a lot more pandas there than this time yesterday.  ;)
13:15 tadzik colomon: yeah, I noticed :0
13:15 tadzik :)
13:16 tadzik Moukeddar: huh, nice coincidence. I haven't noticed that before
13:16 tadzik . o O ( haven't noticed? )
13:16 tadzik Moukeddar: luckily Camelia is colourful
13:17 masak pandas, butterflies, zebras. how do we settle on these animals?
13:17 Moukeddar the eye in the readme badge is creepy
13:17 masak what's next? dugongs?
13:17 masak Moukeddar: I did that eye. sorry about that :)
13:17 jnthn http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/dugong/
13:17 masak by the way, bonus points to anyone who turns the panda on modules.perl6.org into a panda *badge*.
13:18 ymasory joined #perl6
13:18 colomon platypus
13:18 masak jnthn: oh, why am I not surprised? :P
13:18 Moukeddar masak, it's creepy
13:18 Moukeddar and conspiracious :)
13:19 masak ;)
13:19 [Coke] left #perl6
13:19 PerlJam good morning #perl6
13:20 tadzik good afternoon PerlJam
13:20 masak PerlJam: good morning, montly release person!
13:20 masak jnthn: factually incorrect, though: the dugong and the dolphin aren't that close.
13:20 PerlJam Release the montlies!
13:20 Moukeddar the test tube on the has tests badge is a nice touch :)
13:20 masak jnthn: they represent two different (convergent) evolutionary events.
13:21 masak Moukeddar: you see, quite a bit of thought went into this :)
13:21 Moukeddar and it went well
13:21 masak \o/
13:21 Moukeddar the lemon badge
13:21 PerlJam oh crap .... I've got to do the most difficult part of the release today ... come up with a name  :-)
13:21 Moukeddar lmao
13:22 Moukeddar PerlJam, look for somethign that happened in this day
13:22 Moukeddar and name it after it
13:22 Moukeddar or choose an animal :)
13:22 tadzik PerlJam: oh, could you make sure flussence++ is mentioned in the contributors? I don't think he ever commited anything, but Str.indent is his job
13:22 tadzik Zebras.pm
13:22 PerlJam Moukeddar: We traditionally name the release after a perlmonger group
13:22 tadzik and pretend there's a pm group like htis
13:22 PerlJam tadzik: aye, you asked me that already  :)
13:23 tadzik this is April's release after all
13:23 PerlJam tadzik: do you know flussence's real name?
13:23 tadzik PerlJam: ok, thanks
13:23 tadzik PerlJam: hmm, I think it can be found in the roast commit history
13:24 PerlJam tadzik: I like the idea of Zebras.pm
13:25 Moukeddar god nooo
13:25 Moukeddar no zebra
13:25 Moukeddar leave Safari alone
13:25 [Coke] joined #perl6
13:25 PerlJam We could even make a *real* Zebras.pm  The name doesn't have to have anything to do with geography
13:26 woosley left #perl6
13:26 Chillance joined #perl6
13:26 tadzik yeah, sounds good
13:27 tadzik I'd attend it :)
13:27 tadzik "we are named Zebras.pm because no Zebras live in the near area
13:27 tadzik "
13:27 Moukeddar squirrels?
13:28 tadzik they eat dogs!
13:28 Moukeddar tough squirrels i'll adopt
13:28 PerlJam Moukeddar: because they are so tasty?
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: c789496 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: Install our-scoped classes at compile time, and make sure the installation is reinstated during deserialization. An our-scoped package inside a lexically scoped package now ends up installed in the right way. However, nothing does lookups of anything other than variables this way yet...
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c789496deb
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: 9708e54 | jonathan++ | src/Regex (2 files):
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: Set up a fake GLOBALish in the PIR Regex library.
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9708e544e1
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: 7756ef8 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
13:28 Moukeddar who ?
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update the bootstrap with the new package installation logic. Seems to work out OK.
13:28 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7756ef8933
13:29 Moukeddar squirrels or Dogs?
13:29 PerlJam Moukeddar: squirrels
13:29 Moukeddar yes
13:29 Moukeddar they're tasty
13:29 Moukeddar the wild ones for sure
13:29 Moukeddar not the urban
13:30 PerlJam my daughter can't say squirrel (I don't know how this came up that my kids were trying to say this word).   It comes out more like "squirl"
13:30 wtw left #perl6
13:30 awoodland joined #perl6
13:30 Moukeddar lol
13:30 PerlJam So ...  Squirl.pm  :)
13:30 Moukeddar they're really tasty
13:30 Moukeddar you should try it
13:30 PerlJam what?
13:30 colomon too many little bones
13:31 Moukeddar squirrels ;)
13:31 PerlJam colomon: You're thinking of fish.
13:31 Moukeddar nah
13:31 masak PerlJam: I have a Perl 6 module called Squerl.pm
13:31 Moukeddar you skin it
13:31 Moukeddar you cook it
13:31 PerlJam masak: Really?  what's it do?
13:31 Moukeddar et Voil�
13:31 masak PerlJam: it constructs SQL queries using a fluent object interface.
13:31 colomon PerlJam: No, fish are pretty easy to de-bone, and very tasty.  Squirrels are hard to de-bone, and not tasty enough to justify the work involved.  IMO.
13:32 PerlJam Moukeddar: with squirrels, it's never "it"; it's always "them" so that you have enough to make a meal
13:32 Moukeddar no
13:32 Moukeddar actually one will be enough for you
13:32 PerlJam Moukeddar: I've never eaten just one squirrel.  When I was kid even I'd eat 2 or so to get enough meat to feel satisfied
13:33 colomon Basically, squirrel has the same issues as muskrat.
13:33 Moukeddar PerlJam, i cook like just like  arabbit
13:33 Moukeddar with onions and raisins :)
13:33 Moukeddar tasty
13:34 Moukeddar suddenly i'm hungry
13:34 PerlJam Moukeddar: yep.  Squirrel even tastes a little like rabbit me  ... a tougher version of it.
13:34 PerlJam s/me/to me/
13:34 * colomon was wondering how rabbit PerlJam tasted....
13:35 Moukeddar you've eaten the urban ones didn't you ?
13:35 PerlJam Moukeddar: "urban ones"?  Only if the woods of southern Mississippi are considered "urban"
13:35 Moukeddar i mean the ones leaving near human houses
13:36 Moukeddar they're not very tasty
13:36 tadzik by the non-urban you mean a hare?
13:36 Moukeddar no
13:36 Moukeddar the ones leaving far far from houses
13:36 PerlJam I think he's talking about squirrels
13:37 Moukeddar yes squirrels
13:37 tadzik ah, ok
13:37 PerlJam The squirrels that live near humans end up looking too much like rats with fluffy tails.  And  they're oddly scrawny.
13:37 masak PerlJam: maybe Nomads.pm for this release? :)
13:38 Moukeddar i think it's the food they eat
13:38 PerlJam Moukeddar: must be
13:38 * tadzik is no mad
13:38 masak PerlJam: though I would prefer if we found a geographical pm group.
13:38 Moukeddar Morocco :p
13:38 PerlJam masak: I'd prefer if someone founded Zebras.pm  ;0)
13:38 pyrimidine left #perl6
13:38 PerlJam er, ;-)
13:38 masak Wellington.pm :)
13:38 tadzik Napoleon.pm :)
13:38 Moukeddar France.pm
13:39 tadzik or Romans.pm
13:39 Moukeddar Africa.pm
13:40 masak what have Romans.pm ever done for us?
13:40 colomon Sewers.pm?
13:40 Moukeddar killed Jesus
13:40 tadzik if there were no Romans, there would be no Asterix
13:40 Moukeddar Asterix et Obilix
13:41 Moukeddar that's French cartoon
13:41 colomon Parmesan cheese?
13:41 Moukeddar lol
13:41 Moukeddar gross
13:41 Moukeddar and smells
13:41 masak not really.
13:42 mathw mmmmm parmesan
13:42 Moukeddar do Africa.pm
13:42 arnsholt I always found Parmesan to smell a bit like used socks. Very tasty though
13:42 Moukeddar or Fukushima.pm
13:42 mathw most good cheese smells
13:42 Moukeddar only rotten milk for me please
13:44 Moukeddar rotten.pm
13:45 snoopy left #perl6
13:45 masak Moukeddar: so, how did you discover Perl 6?
13:47 * PerlJam needs caffiene
13:48 PerlJam Juggling creating a presentation, writing a report and rakudo today
13:48 jerome left #perl6
13:49 Moukeddar masak, my gf studies it :)
13:49 Moukeddar and so will i
13:49 shi_ joined #perl6
13:49 PerlJam Wait ... we have females involved in Perl 6?  When did this happen?  And why wasn't I informed?   ;-)
13:50 hudnix joined #perl6
13:50 Moukeddar lol
13:50 Moukeddar she's never been here
13:50 Moukeddar she studies it @ university
13:50 PerlJam She studies Perl or "Perl 6"?
13:50 Moukeddar let me check
13:51 PerlJam Many people outside of here mean "Perl 5" when they say "Perl"
13:52 sji left #perl6
13:52 * PerlJam is ever hopeful that there is someone studying Perl 6 at university
13:52 Moukeddar just perl
13:52 Moukeddar and i guess it's 5
13:53 masak let's hope it's not Perl 4 :P
13:53 Moukeddar it's Perl and Maple
13:53 Moukeddar nice combo
13:53 masak yummy
13:53 PerlJam I guess she's not taking a language design or compiler writing class then   :)
13:53 Moukeddar she's a Goddess
13:53 Moukeddar :)
13:54 masak rakudo: given "Perl".lc.comb { say "Ma" ~ .[0, 3, 1].join }
13:54 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«Maple␤»
13:54 masak rakudo: say "Ma" ~ .[0, 3, 1].join given "Perl".lc.comb
13:54 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«Maple␤»
13:55 Moukeddar nice one masak
13:55 Moukeddar nice one
13:55 masak :)
13:55 Moukeddar first rule of Perl : nothing to declare :p
13:55 PerlJam rakudo: given "Perl".lc.comb { say "Ma" ~ .[2,0,3,1].join }  # and now for some Agatha Christie
13:56 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«Marple␤»
13:56 masak :)
13:56 masak rakudo: for ^10 { say "Ma" ~ .pick(3).join given "Perl".lc.comb }
13:56 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«Marpl␤Malre␤Maelr␤Maplr␤Map​rl␤Malpr␤Maepr␤Malrp␤Maepl␤Marpl␤»
13:57 Moukeddar damn
13:57 masak bah :)
13:58 masak what's the probability of (at least) one of those 10 being "Maple"?
13:58 masak the prior probability, I mean :P
13:58 frettled I kept looking for Ms. Marple.
13:58 Moukeddar hehe
13:58 Moukeddar this is awesome
13:59 masak Perl 6 is pretty awesome.
13:59 Moukeddar yes i can feel it
13:59 masak rakudo: say "awesome".comb.pick(*).join
13:59 frettled masak: In a deterministic universe, the prior probability was 0.  :)
13:59 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«seomewa␤»
14:00 masak frettled: that's a very lazy answer! :)
14:00 masak must I do the numbers all on my own?
14:00 frettled masak: can't you write a program to do the numbers?
14:00 masak oh, come on.
14:00 frettled Hey, I'm lazy.
14:00 masak it's not a matter of stochastics. it's a fairly small number divided by another fairly small number.
14:02 masak isn't it something like (1 over 10) / (4 over 10)?
14:03 shi_ left #perl6
14:03 masak so (1!/9!) / (4!/6!).
14:03 masak rakudo: sub postfix:<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n }; say (1!/9!) / (4!/6!)
14:03 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«8.26719576719577e-05␤»
14:03 SHODAN left #perl6
14:03 masak that looks way too small.
14:04 masak back to the drawing-board.
14:04 masak there are 24 permutations of "perl".
14:04 tylercurtis Wouldn't it be 1/4!?
14:04 tylercurtis rakudo: sub postfix<!>($n) { [*] 1..$n };say 1/4!
14:05 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub postfi"␤»
14:05 masak the chance of 1 single item being "perl" is therefore 1/24.
14:05 masak the change of 1 single item *not* being "perl" is 23/24.
14:05 tylercurtis Oh, wait, ten times.
14:05 Moukeddar lol
14:05 masak the chance of 10 single items in a row not being "perl" is (23/24)**10.
14:05 masak the chance of that not happening is 1 - (23/24)**10.
14:05 masak rakudo: 1 - (23/24)**10
14:06 p6eval rakudo e09cb7:  ( no output )
14:06 masak rakudo: say 1 - (23/24)**10
14:06 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«0.346619839779969␤»
14:06 masak that's better.
14:06 masak folks, what we observed was a one-in-three event! :)
14:06 Moukeddar the damn thing is i have probabilities in my next exam
14:07 masak it's more likely that (at least) one of those ten items comes out as "Maple". oh wait.
14:07 masak no, I've calculated the wrong thing.
14:07 masak :/
14:07 * masak does what frettled suggested
14:07 * jnthn never managed to find probability intuitive
14:07 masak jnthn: it isn't. that's why calculating is required.
14:08 Moukeddar intuitive?
14:08 Moukeddar it's torture
14:08 masak not really.
14:08 Moukeddar it is
14:08 Moukeddar when it's an exam
14:08 pyrimidine joined #perl6
14:08 Moukeddar one wrong move and you're screwed
14:09 * pyrimidine drops weapon, places hands in air
14:10 * masak tries not to look like a screw
14:10 Moukeddar that's it
14:10 Moukeddar i'll call the batgirl
14:10 Moukeddar http://verydemotivational.memebase.com/201​1/04/21/demotivational-posters-batgirl-2/
14:10 masak no, my calculation above is correct.
14:11 masak there are 24 ways to pick three letters out of a stock of four.
14:11 masak Moukeddar: I don't like that poster. :(
14:12 Moukeddar http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/20​11/04/demotivational-posters-your-childhood.jpg
14:12 Moukeddar this?
14:12 masak not much moved by that one at all.
14:13 Moukeddar internet is bad
14:13 masak would prefer the humour in here to be safe for work, fwiw.
14:14 Moukeddar ah
14:14 Moukeddar i'll go for the LOLcats then
14:14 moritz and if you post something NSFW, please at the very least mark it as such
14:15 mathw probability is mind-bending
14:15 mathw at times
14:15 masak sometimes weeks pass and I sort of forget that #perl6 isn't like the rest of the internet.
14:16 Moukeddar i'm sorry
14:16 * masak hugs Moukeddar
14:16 * Moukeddar is overwhelmed
14:16 masak Moukeddar: we'll stop talking about probability if you stop posting bats with boobs :P
14:17 Moukeddar deal
14:17 masak :)
14:17 Moukeddar http://www.facebook.com/ExHandler
14:18 Moukeddar that's me
14:18 Moukeddar SFW
14:18 masak ;)
14:19 masak ooh! Arabic?
14:19 Moukeddar yes
14:19 * masak takes a guess
14:19 masak Egypt?
14:20 Moukeddar no
14:20 Moukeddar Morocco
14:20 PerlJam so ... that script is read right to left, correct?
14:20 masak Moukeddar: ah.
14:21 Moukeddar yes
14:21 Moukeddar Arabic is RTL
14:21 masak PerlJam: you can tell by selecting a bit of text and seeing how it behaves :P
14:21 Moukeddar yes
14:21 Moukeddar the clever way :)
14:21 masak rakudo: say "Arabic is RTL".flip # :)
14:21 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«LTR si cibarA␤»
14:22 PerlJam So ... how do you read it in the middle of an english sentence? Do you read until you hit arabic and then go "oh, I need to scan to the end and read RTL for a while, then scan to end again to pick up the english?
14:22 Moukeddar what do you mean ?
14:22 PerlJam To connect with ياسين السفناج, sign up for Facebook today.
14:22 masak PerlJam: basically, yes.
14:22 Moukeddar ah i get you
14:23 Moukeddar yes that's how you do it
14:23 masak my IRC client made that piece of Arabic text RTL, though.
14:23 masak er, LTR.
14:23 PerlJam oh!  So did mine.
14:23 masak but it looks good on the web page.
14:23 Moukeddar what IRC client?
14:23 PerlJam right.
14:23 jerome joined #perl6
14:24 PerlJam irssi for me
14:25 Moukeddar i use XCHAT
14:25 Moukeddar arabic seems to have problems because of it's RTL
14:25 Moukeddar :)
14:27 masak I'm on Emacs and ERC.
14:27 alester joined #perl6
14:27 PerlJam When I use my lebanese friend's macbook, everything is right justified (menus, toolbars, etc.).    But that's okay because I can't read arabic anyway  ;-)
14:28 Moukeddar i use an English OS
14:28 masak I guess readers of Arabic (and Hebrew) are used to various compromises whenever they have contact with the LTR parts of the world :)
14:32 masak rakudo: say "ياسين السفناج".flip
14:32 p6eval rakudo e09cb7: OUTPUT«جانفسلا نيساي␤»
14:32 ymasory left #perl6
14:32 colomon is that right?
14:33 Moukeddar it's a pain to find proper components that support RTL
14:33 colomon I mean, I don't read Arabic, but it doesn't look the same at all flipped.
14:33 masak colomon: the output looks like the right order, but it doesn't look connected enough to me.
14:33 PerlJam masak: aye, that's the problem.
14:33 masak my web reader renders it better.
14:34 masak maybe it's the fixed-width font that's screwing things up.
14:34 Moukeddar fonts
14:35 Moukeddar it's OS related :p
14:35 masak oh, by the way, people: tomorrow jnthn and I are going to do a full-day hackathon using CQRS and Event Sourcing to build a board game server. we'll likely hang out on #cqrs-perl6 as we hack :)
14:36 PerlJam Is there another name for the needle on a dial?  like an ammeter or a barometer or any sort of analog "clock shaped" thing ..
14:36 PerlJam (like the needle on those things I mean)
14:37 rlb3 joined #perl6
14:37 TimToady "hand", but only for clocks
14:38 TimToady "indicator" sometimes
14:39 colomon masak++ jnthn++
14:39 TimToady but only if jnthn finishes 6model first :P
14:39 Axius left #perl6
14:40 jnthn :P
14:40 masak don't worry, he's working on it today :) jnthn++
14:40 TimToady oh, that's good then :)
14:40 masak I'm only going to steal him for a day :)
14:40 PerlJam masak: you mean he'll finish it today?  ;>
14:41 masak guess I was implying that.
14:41 masak jnthn: but that's reasonable, right? :P
14:41 colomon it's just a small matter of programming.
14:41 jnthn Depends how we define day... :P
14:42 TimToady the Day of Reckoning...
14:42 masak ooh, it's a thrill to decide how soon someone else should be finished. does that mean I should aim for becoming a manager? :P
14:42 masak perhaps a micromanager...
14:42 frettled masak: yes
14:42 frettled µmanager?
14:43 masak tomorrow is Långfredag in Sweden. we thought we'd take advantage of the longness of the day for a hackathon.
14:43 jnthn masak: Sorry, you're too competent to reach management. :)
14:43 frettled AKA a micro man-ager
14:43 colomon masak: I thought it was the salespeople who determined how soon someone else should be finished, and the managers merely split the difference between them and the people who know what they are talking about.
14:43 masak jnthn, frettled, colomon: :P
14:44 TimToady hugme: :P masak
14:45 * jnthn could make faster progress if he'd stop running into weird issues related to lexicals...
14:47 tadzik make faster programs, or make programs faster?
14:47 * masak shudders, remembering 2008 when Rakudo still had lexical issues
14:48 * jnthn shudders, considering that in 2011 Rakudo still has lexical issues :P
14:48 masak "even in the future nothing works!"
14:48 * PerlJam starts to wonder if masak and jnthn have contracted malaria
14:49 masak 'my $malaria;' # lexical issues
14:50 PerlJam masak: since you and jnthn work together now, does that mean we'll start seeing you trek the globe too?  :)
14:50 justatheory joined #perl6
14:50 masak PerlJam: 'fraid so :)
14:50 alester left #perl6
14:50 alester joined #perl6
14:50 masak I might not follow jnthn everywhere, mind.
14:51 masak still limited by budgetary/time constraints, and I might not always be invited :)
14:51 Moukeddar left #perl6
14:53 diakopter host 172.16.93.96
14:53 diakopter oops
14:53 ray24 How many useful programs should a programmer be able to create within a month?
14:53 TimToady goodness, does that ever depend...
14:53 TimToady is rakudo a useful program?
14:54 ray24 Depends on how much revenue
14:54 ray24 I want revenue
14:54 ray24 profit
14:54 tadzik how many lines of code did Mythical Man-Month mention?
14:54 TimToady you need a ? before the profit
14:54 ray24 Profit is a concrete word
14:54 TimToady we're in the ? part with Perl 6
14:54 PerlJam There are some shops where programmers only generate about 3 useful lines of code per week.
14:54 alester left #perl6
14:54 alester joined #perl6
14:54 masak ray24: 'program' describes a unit of code that may vary in size over several orders of magnitude.
14:55 flussence PerlJam: and 40000 lines of XML? :)
14:55 PerlJam aye
14:55 PerlJam or 10000 lines of "reports"
14:55 PerlJam and they spend 30 hours a week meetings (or so it seems)
14:55 PerlJam s/week meet/week *in* meet/
14:57 masak ray24: this week at $work, I made 23 commits. I think that's a more useful measure than programs or lines of code.
14:57 PerlJam masak++
14:57 PerlJam Though if I apply that metric to my coworkers, they need to be fired or something
14:58 diakopter hours in meetings?
14:58 PerlJam I do far and away more commits than they do.   Like almost 2 orders of magnitude.
14:58 diakopter laptops in meetings are great
14:58 masak PerlJam: same here.
15:00 * PerlJam wonders what masak's statement means wrt jnthn  ;)
15:01 masak oh, I didn't mean jnthn. :)
15:02 ymasory joined #perl6
15:02 masak jnthn and I seem to have about the same commit policy. atomic change = commit.
15:02 masak though I seem to slip out of that thinking occasionally, just as I sometimes fall off the TDD wagon.
15:02 PerlJam masak: no matter how small?  (some of my coworkers seem to think that commits need to be a certain size)
15:03 masak PerlJam: size has nothing to do with it.
15:03 * jnthn doesn't really have that mentality
15:03 ray24 What's the percentage of chance that your idea could be stolen in here?
15:03 PerlJam ray24: Perl is all about stealing good ideas.  :)
15:03 jnthn If it's a 1 character change that resolves a bug, then it's a patch to resolve the bug and should be a commit. :)
15:04 masak ray24: usually, other people stealing your ideas isn't the problem. usually, one has to *force* people to grok one's own ideas. :P
15:04 huf you cant steal ideas, you can only copy them blablabla
15:04 huf :)
15:05 flussence an idea on its own is worth nothing unless you're going to put in the work to realise it.
15:05 masak PerlJam: ideally, the size of a commit is "the smallest possible that does whatever the commit should do". that goes for both original code and for changes.
15:07 * jnthn finds it useful to think from the point of view of the code reviewer
15:07 masak there are lots of parallels with sub/method naming, actually. you name a commit, or a piece of code, after what it's meant to do. the actual commit -- or piece of code -- could be long or short, as the situation requires.
15:07 jnthn "If I had to understand and review this commit, would I be happy?"
15:08 alester is now known as petdance
15:09 petdance is now known as alester
15:09 masak that's the same as saying "Assume that the next person reading your code [commits, whatever] is an easily angered axe murderer who knows where you live."
15:09 TimToady ray24: The percentage chance that my idea could be stolen here is 0%, because I always give away my ideas before they can be stolen.
15:10 masak the best way to make sure your ideas are never stolen, is to never ever communicate with anyone.
15:11 ray24 yeah, I've already taken security measure by using an internet-less laptop
15:11 jnthn masak: Not really. I just think it's nice to make other people's experience on a project pleasant.
15:12 PerlJam jnthn: I'd be happy on the Rakudo project if there were a working implementation of 6model   ;-)
15:12 masak ray24: how's that working out for you? :P
15:13 masak jnthn: I agree your metric has its advantages, being founded on happiness rather than axe murderers... :P
15:14 masak huh. I prefer my source commits feature-based and my releases time-based. some people seem to want it the other way around. :)
15:14 PerlJam masak: there's the kernel of a good blog post in that comment.
15:14 masak PerlJam: oh! another great argument for making commmits feature-based: merging.
15:15 masak PerlJam: if the commits are tied to an *intent*, it's much easier to make judgment calls when merging them.
15:15 PerlJam that's what branches are for.
15:15 jnthn PerlJam: Working on it :P
15:16 masak PerlJam: oh... in a distributed setting, everything is a branch...
15:16 masak and that's what my mind takes as the baseline nowadays.
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16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: cc282da | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Move symbol installation code into the grammar; needs to happen earlier than it's currently doing, but also this'll help to better parse without doing the actions too.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cc282da67d
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: de0e355 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add a way to set the default parent class in NQPClassHOW, to try and help resolve a circular dependency.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/de0e355080
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: 4371629 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Use set_default_parent from actions.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4371629a87
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: 7e325a4 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Cursor calls set_default_parent.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7e325a4f76
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: dc42c1e | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dc42c1e881
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: a4e9240 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Cursor.pir:
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: Cursor locates NQPMu lexically in the setting.
16:14 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a4e9240567
16:15 ray24 What's happening here?
16:15 huf i still think of CMOT Dibbler whenever i see that...
16:16 masak ray24: you mean the dalek output?
16:17 ray24 precisely
16:17 masak ray24: it's commit messages whenever someone pushes something.
16:17 masak ray24: right now, jnthn++ is working on nqp, in a branch called ctmo.
16:17 masak ray24: you'll see commit URLs and messages interspersed. it's a way for the rest of us to keep up-to-date.
16:18 masak hope that helps.
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16:19 moritz jnthn: I'm still seeing failures from four test files, is that expected?
16:21 jnthn moritz: In the branch? Yes.
16:22 jnthn moritz: Re-doing packages and implementing separate compilation has a little fallout. ;)
16:24 yegor left #perl6
16:24 moritz ok, just checking
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16:33 dalek nqp/ctmo: e65afd7 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Actions.pm:
16:33 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make actual values of symbols in the setting available to the compiler. Will be useful for all sorts of stuff. :-)
16:33 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e65afd7b4e
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16:34 jnthn ...once it pulls them from the setting at the current stage of the bootstrap, anyway... :)
16:34 jnthn bbiab
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16:51 testpl6 hi folks. what are the equivalents of the getpw* functions in perl6?
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16:59 sorear testpl6: there are none yet; when there are they will probably be in a module, maybe POSIX
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17:14 flussence :( I was just about to answer him
17:14 flussence sub getpwnam(Str $name) is native() returns Int { ... }
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17:16 flussence oh wait, I was getting it confused with getpwnam_r...
17:16 Holy_Cow left #perl6
17:17 flussence hm, those all return structs. more awkward than I thought...
17:17 flussence and it returned a string anyway when I ran it :/
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17:23 jnthn back
17:23 colomon o/
17:23 isBEKaml good *, #perl6!
17:24 masak isBEKaml! \o/
17:24 isBEKaml masak! :)
17:24 colomon \o
17:24 jnthn o/ isBEKaml
17:25 isBEKaml colomon,jnthn: \\o//
17:25 masak many-armed greetings.
17:26 molaf left #perl6
17:26 * jnthn sees isBEKaml is well armed and backs off a bit
17:26 isBEKaml we are way too courteous and polite. :)
17:27 isBEKaml nah, that's just me excitedly waving my arms. (Optical illusion? :P)
17:28 masak the second amendment protects our right to bear as many arms as we want.
17:29 molaf joined #perl6
17:29 jnthn .oO( how many arms does a panda bear? )
17:30 isBEKaml masak, -> ($x, $y) the *th amendment protects our right to *
17:30 sorear it's funny to hear Europeans talking about "the second amendment" without context
17:30 masak you can't use both a pointy siggy and whatevers.
17:31 masak sorear: that's how influenced we are ;P
17:31 isBEKaml masak: *
17:31 masak :)
17:31 * PerlJam starts on releasing the caged rakudo-bear from its repository
17:31 masak Rawr-kudo.
17:32 PerlJam What's the difference between "make spectest" and "make stresstest"?
17:32 masak make it the greatest Rakudo release so far in human chronicling.
17:32 Su-Shee roar-kudo?
17:32 masak Su-Shee! \o/
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17:33 isBEKaml (backlogging) wow, it was someday today. Varied discussions. :)
17:33 jnthn .oO( If we had a module upload server, we'd call it paws... )
17:33 PerlJam isBEKaml: when does that *not* happen?
17:33 isBEKaml Su-Shee: How's your 6-course meal coming along? ;)
17:33 isBEKaml PerlJam: Not as much as I would have expected to see On-topic discussions. :P
17:34 Su-Shee isBEKaml: well at least I bought everything to bake cantucci tomorrow. (those ultra-hard almond biscuits.)
17:34 isBEKaml Su-Shee: the only thing I recognised in all of the food talk was tiramisu. :)
17:35 PerlJam What's the difference between "make spectest" and "make stresstest"?
17:35 isBEKaml Su-Shee: Strong coffee and choco bits sprinkled with loads of cream. Did I get that right? :)
17:35 flussence PerlJam: spectest runs roast, never heard of the other one...
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17:36 flussence stresstest passes --stress=1 to the test harness...
17:36 Su-Shee isBEKaml: no biscuits dipped in strong espresso and stacked with a very heavy cream ;)
17:36 flussence ...which apparently just runs a few more tests
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17:37 PerlJam I can read the code, I'm hoping for a more prosaic distinction that I can glom my mind to.
17:37 isBEKaml Su-Shee: ah, cool. I only remember the taste and somebody said it was tiramisu. :)
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17:38 flussence according to what I'm seeing from a few greps... it does nothing :/
17:38 Su-Shee I also dreamt about hand made pasta. ;)
17:38 molaf left #perl6
17:38 PerlJam (Also to update the release manager guide since it says to run "make stresstest" but in the following paragraph it says "keeping adjusting things until make spectest passes")
17:38 isBEKaml Really, I wouldn't mind being at the receiving end of someone's N-course meal. ;)
17:38 flussence well it looks like nothing uses the 'stress' tag for skipping tests in the first place
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17:39 flussence (I'm assuming it would show up in those #? lines)
17:40 PerlJam flussence: oh ... btw, do you want your real name in the credits for the release or will flussence do?
17:40 flussence eh, I don't care either way :)
17:41 PerlJam Well, the automated script already has you as "flussence" .... so be it.
17:41 flussence laziness++ :)
17:42 PerlJam I've changed my mind.  The hardest part about the release is waiting for the tests to finish.
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17:44 flussence are you using make TEST_JOBS=n?
17:45 PerlJam no, I'm not.
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17:48 PerlJam But I also don't know the caveats to using that versus not using it.  (the release guide doesn't mention it, but perhaps it should)
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17:50 PerlJam (and what's a good value for n?  Number of CPU cores?)
17:51 flussence I usually build it with -j$cpus TEST_JOBS=$cpus. AFAIK the only caveat is n times the resource usage...
17:56 PerlJam er ... how do I know it's working as intended?  the harness gets passed  --jobs, but I would have expected --jobs=4   (when TEST_JOBS=4)
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18:04 PerlJam That's weird ... the environment always overrides the option passed on the command line.
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18:04 masak that sounds somehow familiar.
18:08 flussence oh, it'll be obvious when it's in effect because it does some ncurses fancy stuff to prevent munging the output.
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18:22 moritz PerlJam: it's odd, but it doesn't work the other way round, because otherwise Makefile would need to check env variables
18:23 PerlJam Why would the Makefile care?
18:24 moritz because it's what calls t/harness when you type 'make spectest'
18:26 PerlJam If you remove the --jobs command line argument from the call to  t/harness and change the order of precedence in t/harness to be  command line, environment, default then it should Just Work
18:27 moritz do it, but only after the release please
18:27 PerlJam moritz: Already in the works :)
18:27 PerlJam (for after the release of course)
18:27 moritz which one? the release or the test change?
18:28 moritz ah, ok
18:28 * moritz types too slow
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18:33 dalek rakudo: 5af8100 | perlpilot++ | docs/announce/2011.04:
18:33 dalek rakudo: [release] create announcement
18:33 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5af81006c5
18:33 dalek rakudo: 674c984 | perlpilot++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
18:33 dalek rakudo: [release] update release_guide
18:33 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/674c9842a1
18:33 dalek rakudo: 38057a6 | perlpilot++ | VERSION:
18:33 dalek rakudo: [release] bump VERSION
18:33 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/38057a6f9d
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18:40 moritz PerlJam++
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19:09 dalek rakudo: b3c8d37 | perlpilot++ | / (2 files):
19:09 dalek rakudo: Update test harness and Makefile
19:09 dalek rakudo:
19:09 dalek rakudo: Change t/harness to use the following order for the --jobs parameter:
19:09 dalek rakudo: command line, environment variable, default.  And remove the explicit
19:09 dalek rakudo: --jobs parameter to t/harness in the Makefile so that this fallover
19:09 dalek rakudo: process just works.
19:09 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b3c8d37a74
19:21 jnthn If anybody has a spare moment, I'd love it if somebody could try applying https://gist.github.com/935285 to Parrot and then building Rakudo.
19:22 jnthn In theory it's faster, and shouldn't break anything. It also removes a nasty blocker I've run into.
19:24 PerlJam jnthn: trying now.
19:24 jnthn Thanks.
19:25 dalek rakudo: ecc4efa | perlpilot++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
19:25 dalek rakudo: minor modifications
19:25 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ecc4efa921
19:26 PerlJam Why is it that I feel (and possibly am) more productive on things that I'm doing to procrastinate from doing other things?
19:26 jnthn Because the things you do to procrastinate are more fun, and it's easier to be productive on fun things, maybe. :)
19:27 PerlJam sounds like a winner to me!
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19:32 moritz jnthn: patch doesn't apply cleanly here
19:33 jnthn moritz: Here git apply didn't apply it cleanly, but the patch program did...
19:34 moritz patch -p1 < ns.patch
19:34 moritz patching file compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir
19:34 moritz Hunk #1 FAILED at 854.
19:34 moritz jnthn: care to just push it as a git branch?
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19:36 PerlJam moritz: are you applying it to master or another branch?
19:36 moritz PerlJam: master
19:36 PerlJam weird
19:37 PerlJam (It applied cleanly for me using patch)
19:37 jnthn Hm
19:37 moritz ah, whitespace copy&paste fail
19:37 moritz wget + patch works
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20:03 PerlJam jnthn: testing almost done, but not failures so far and I've got a meeting to go to.
20:05 jnthn PerlJam: Thanks!
20:06 sjohnson hi dudes
20:06 masak hi sjohnson!
20:06 sjohnson yo masak, how are you feeling about perl6 these days?
20:07 masak sjohnson: I'm all excited about Perl 6. I want to help it reach maturity.
20:08 * sjohnson has been doing a lot of p5.  many headaches prevented.  kinda excited for p6 though too
20:10 moritz sjohnson: I've been doing lots of p5 too. And all the while thinking about which p6 feature would be quite need in some situations :-)
20:10 masak sjohnson: I'm all through being excited about individual features, I think. in the end, all Algol-like languages are pretty much the same, even Perl 6.
20:11 masak sjohnson: but I'm still excited about the big-picture elements, like the deep integration of grammars and ASTs.
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20:12 pmurias masak: re pretty much the same, using printf instead of Data::Dumper is always annoying in C(++)
20:13 masak heh :)
20:13 masak I guess that's because printf and Data::Dumper are only "the same" tool if you ignore the orders of magnitude of difference in ease between them.
20:14 masak but what would prevent someone from writing a Data::Dumper-alike in C(++)?
20:15 moritz masak: lack of introspection
20:15 masak oh! that one always sneaks up on me.
20:15 masak poor C(++).
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20:17 masak despite that, I maintain my original point. things are often trickier in C(++) than in Perl, but that's part of the tradeoff between those languages.
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20:17 * sjohnson is learning C++
20:19 masak sjohnson: have you found http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/ yet?
20:19 masak it's a treasure trove.
20:20 moritz and after that, read http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/ :-)
20:21 masak :)
20:21 tadzik o/
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20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: c46e9f1 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make it possible to specify a path to load the setting from, so we can make sure we get the correct one during the bootstrap procedure.
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c46e9f1fe0
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: 2d19edc | jonathan++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: Bump to latest Parrot to get PCT block ref fix.
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2d19edc2f8
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: 35c39f0 | jonathan++ | build/Makefile.in:
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: Use --setting-path flag to make sure we get the correct version of the setting during the bootstrap process.
20:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/35c39f051f
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20:33 sjohnson masak: not to troll, but i like the FQA better
20:33 sjohnson the anti-C++ thing
20:33 sjohnson ive decided to use it despite the bad things people say about it mostly cause it's well supported
20:33 sjohnson wxwidgets, crypto++ in C++, etc.
20:36 masak you're not even close to trolling, so no worries.
20:36 masak and I still think it's better to know C++ than to avoid it like the pest.
20:37 jnthn Pragmatism goes a long way. I'm no Java fan, but if there's a great existing thing written in it that I can use as a starting point or just about as is, I'll use it.
20:39 masak languages are just vessels for ideas. if the idea is good/worthwhile, it's incidental that the language is more limited than $favorite-language.
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 2944b43 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add a way to find a lexical that is known at compile time. Use this mechanism for setting the default parent NQPMu. (This is the first use of the mechanism that will let us be able to deal with all of these bits at compile - or in Perlier terms BUILD - time).
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2944b43fa7
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 820c806 | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Remove a workaround.
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/820c8067a4
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: 2cab3bf | jonathan++ | / (8 files):
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update the bootstrap with latest changes. Also incorporates a Makefile update, since now the --setting-path is available (and needed) in stage1.
20:40 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2cab3bfb4f
20:40 sjohnson masak: yeah, kinda interesting to learn something new too
20:41 sjohnson i know a lot of PHP cause of work.. but that doesn't mean i like it :)
20:41 jnthn masak: Very much so.
20:42 dalek nqp/ctmo: 1d737e4 | jonathan++ | src/core/NQPMu.pm:
20:42 dalek nqp/ctmo: NQPMu is in the setting and should be lexical (and now all blockers to it being are gone, so it can be).
20:42 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/1d737e48a3
20:43 jnthn So many patches, and I still don't have anything cool to show off just yet...
20:46 masak part of my point is that it's not so much about liking or not liking. if I were a blacksmith, I bet I'd have a favorite anvil. but I could still use the lesser ones to do good work.
20:46 masak assuming, of course, that I were any good as a blacksmith. which is far from certain ;)
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21:05 masak sorry for dropping in and out like this. compiling src/gen/core.pm, and laptop is liking it less than usual.
21:07 jnthn core blimey!
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21:19 moritz build fails
21:19 moritz /home/moritz/p6/nqp/parrot_install/bin/parrot --library=src/stage1 src/stage1/nqp.pbc \ --target=pir --output=src/stage2/gen/nqp-mo.pir \ --setting=NULL src/stage2/gen/nqp-mo.pm
21:19 moritz Cannot fetch object from non-existant serialization context 1303418068.989
21:21 jnthn moritz: Did you re-Configure?
21:21 * jnthn cleans and makes justin case.
21:22 jnthn Hmm, I have no local patches either.
21:22 moritz nope, did not
21:22 jnthn Ah, the Makefile.in has important changes that would cause errors like that :)
21:23 jnthn er, not having the changes would, I mean.
21:23 moritz and my parrot is one rev too old
21:23 * moritz tries again
21:24 moritz somehow my parrot reports itself as being too old, even though I reconfigured in a sufficiently new repo
21:24 jnthn Oh. :S
21:25 jnthn Does the string in PARROT_REVISION make sense?
21:25 * jnthn just copied it from the Configure.pl describe output.
21:25 moritz yes, it's identical to git describe --tags
21:27 jnthn oh.
21:27 jnthn Really werid.
21:27 moritz ah, when I clean out parrot before reconfiguring it reports itself correctly
21:27 moritz parrot build weirdness
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21:29 moritz \o/ compiles now
21:30 jnthn phew!
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21:36 jnthn moritz: Will have a similar-ish bunch of test fails from this morning. Got a couple more Big Things to change over with packages, then I'll start to triage.
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21:39 masak 'night, #perl6
21:39 masak jnthn: \o/ triage!
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22:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: acf33e3 | jonathan++ | / (69 files):
22:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: A little reorganization. Move the (NQP-specific) meta-objects out of the metamodel directory, and rename it to 6model, to start to better indicate what is in the 6model core and what is using it. No functional changes.
22:01 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/acf33e3696
22:08 tylercurtis rakudo: class A { has $!a = 0; method a { $!a++; } }; given A.new { say .a, .a; }
22:08 p6eval rakudo ecc4ef: OUTPUT«01␤»
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23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: 3404565 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Se (2 files):
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Start to rename SettingManager to ModuleLoader, and move the current (very minimalistic) module loading to there, in anticipation of expanding it with extra pieces soon.
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3404565942
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: b5bf667 | jonathan++ | / (3 files):
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Start renaming of SettingManager => ModuleManager.
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b5bf6670e9
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: e3209ee | jonathan++ | src/Regex.pir:
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update a HLL::SettingManager reference in the REgex library.
23:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e3209ee5e3
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23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: c179b99 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap to eliminate HLL::SettingManager usage.
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c179b99d1f
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: 9863370 | jonathan++ | src/ModuleLoader.pm:
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: Rip out HLL::SettingManager compat.
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9863370a50
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: 11717b0 | jonathan++ | build/Makefile.in:
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: Build SettingManager.pbc as ModuleLoader.pbc as well, so we can transition.
23:35 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/11717b0767
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23:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: 6201d0d | jonathan++ | / (12 files):
23:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: Final cleanup after SettingManager => ModuleLoader changes.
23:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6201d0d19d
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