Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:36 Tene Anyone here know anyone looking for work?
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02:14 perigrin Tene: autarch is looking for work
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03:07 aesop Tene: what kind
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03:09 Tene aesop: linux sysadmin, lots of automation written in perl
03:10 aesop full time?
03:10 Tene Yes.
03:11 aesop argh
03:11 aesop i've been looking for something to do on the side
03:12 Tene although, we're getting pretty desperate, so we're trying to consider how to expand our candidate pool.  They've had bad experiences with telecommuting before, but I'm trying to talk them into it, as it's not going to be worse than staying understaffed. :P
03:13 Tene I hadn't heard anyone suggest part-time contracts, though.
03:13 Tene I'll bring it up.
03:14 aesop yea, if the scheduling for the position changes ping me in here, i might be available for it
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06:16 masak lol hi from a train
06:17 sorear how does that work?  satellites?
06:17 sorear broadband over third rail? :)
06:17 masak :P
06:18 masak i have a little Huawei device that I plug in, like almost everyone nowadays.
06:18 masak the little Huawei device... I don't know what it communicates with. but probably ordinary ground stations.
06:19 masak I think it's slightly uncanny, because I plug it in right next to my left hand, and it emits a very faint but detectable heat field.
06:21 sorear like radiative/convective heating, or like your hand is absorbing the transmitter radiation?
06:21 masak the former.
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06:40 masak bah, tunnels.
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06:44 lestrrat hmm, not quite getting how p6 handles parameters. sometime I get [ ( ... ) ] instead of [ ... ]  (1 element seq of seq, insead of the entire seq) when I pass arguments to my object constructor.
06:44 lestrrat is there a general guideline for passing around parameters sot that they DWIM ?
06:45 lestrrat not quite groking the conversion...
06:46 masak lestrrat: I recognize what you're describing.
06:46 masak lestrrat: it all comes down to signature binding being... binding.
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06:47 lestrrat I guess if I'm writing my own sub, I can just do stuff like *@list or whatever, but how do you handle it when you're passing stuff to your constructor?
06:48 lestrrat in simple case, this worked for me : class Foo { @.list };    Foo.new( list => (...) )
06:48 lestrrat but then I started making object factories, and things started getting hairy.
06:48 lestrrat say, Factory.create_foo( args_for_foo1 => { list => (...) } )
06:49 lestrrat I then tried iterating for @.list -> $v, and $v contains the entire list instead of the listing being initialized with the values
06:49 lestrrat I might be approaching this too P5-ish, but ... just not groking it :)
06:50 masak I think you're doing fine.
06:50 masak at this point, a gist from you with a minimal piece of code would help me.
06:51 lestrrat yeah I know. I wrote a rather long hairy piece of code, so I'm having problems extracting a minimal case :)
06:51 lestrrat will try though.
06:51 masak it's usually possible.
06:56 lestrrat masak: https://gist.github.com/938427
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06:58 lestrrat masak: https://gist.github.com/938427 (repost just in case)
07:01 lestrrat afk
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07:05 lestrrat man, damn the train :)
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07:36 masak lestrrat: I think your expectation is a very reasonable one.
07:36 masak partly because I'm sometimes bitten by this one myself :)
07:38 masak lestrrat: here's my previous take on it: http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=67872
07:38 masak no, wait. that one was resolved.
07:39 masak hm. it's not this one either.
07:39 masak http://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=76242
07:40 masak I know there was a spec change involved. maybe I can find it that way.
07:41 masak it was around March last year, because I was discussing this in the car with jnthn and mberends while jnthn was moving house.
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07:45 masak ah. here is the spec commit: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7​4206e4f188a6d3559f34cba158ec8c13774c18d
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07:49 lestrrat does that mean you need to bind the parameters via ref binding in order to achieve what I'm trying to do?
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07:59 moritz you can try @.list.list
07:59 moritz not sure if it helps, or if it is what you want
07:59 moritz I find the behavior weird too
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09:18 dalek niecza: 90a60f5 | pmurias++ | hoopl/.gitignore:
09:18 dalek niecza: [hoopl] added .gitignore
09:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/90a60f5c8e
09:18 dalek niecza: 4db171f | pmurias++ | hoopl/ (5 files):
09:18 dalek niecza: [hoopl] simple-test/if.t is converted to Op
09:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4db171ff88
09:39 lestrrat hmm, I can't really find a way to do what I want other than creating a BUILD that flattens the incoming list
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11:26 jnthn afternoon, #pelr6
11:26 jnthn ...oops :)
11:27 Juerd Is that the secret channel? :)
11:28 jnthn ;)
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14:23 JimmyZ good evening, #perl6
14:24 moritz \o
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14:59 isBEKaml good *, #perl6!
15:08 sjn heh
15:09 sjn I actually read that as "good Whatever"
15:09 * sjn is obviously damaged already
15:09 isBEKaml sjn: * holds your boat. :)
15:10 sjn meh, *
15:10 sjn :)
15:10 * sjn wonders if there's a "meh" operator or method, and what it would do
15:11 sjn maybe "meh" would just be an alias for "Whatever"? :)
15:11 isBEKaml you could add that to ouch.pm, yeah. :)
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15:20 sorear \o/ I started a meme
15:21 isBEKaml sorear: \\o
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15:30 moritz sjn: I think 'good *' was actually meant as 'good Whatever', given that people have different timezones, so wishing a good morning would be off in most parts of the world
15:31 isBEKaml mostly like good localtime() used by moritz++ . :)
15:34 isBEKaml however, people in eastern timezones have it easy - they just have to wish "good evening" and chances are, they'd not be far off the mark. unless you count alaska. :)
15:39 moritz or you can answer with the canonical "it's always morrning somewhere" - still I like 'good *' :-)
15:40 sorear I did start that one, right?
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15:41 moritz sorear: yes
15:42 isBEKaml irc and timezones remind me of a certain blog I read. It talked about introducing new devs into their projects by organiziing a build-it conference or something. It included GNOME Vidalia team too, I think.
15:45 isBEKaml ah, here it is: http://blog.lydiapintscher.de/2011/04/18/how-vidal​ia-and-gimp-found-new-contributors-just-by-asking/
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16:26 pmurias fglock: hi
16:27 fglock pmurias: hi
16:27 pmurias fglock: how's perlito doing?
16:28 fglock I've released version 7.0 - I think it looks ok :)
16:29 pmurias do you use it for anything?
16:30 pmurias fglock: it's released as v6 on CPAN?
16:30 fglock nferraz is trying to use it for programming an app in the iPhone, but I don't use it myself
16:30 fglock yes - v6.pm in cpan
16:30 fglock I've used your code to make it more generic
16:30 fglock so it can also use other backends
16:31 pmurias fglock: he is using the js backend?
16:31 fglock yes, with Titanium
16:32 fglock http://www.appcelerator.com/products/ti​tanium-mobile-application-development/
16:36 pmurias fglock: will you be at YAPC::EU?
16:38 fglock hmm - probably not, but I haven't decided yet
16:39 fglock are you going?
16:41 pmurias yes
16:51 pmurias fglock: you now live in the Netherlands?
16:53 fglock yes, I'm in Amsterdam
16:53 moritz at booking.com?
16:53 fglock yes
16:53 * moritz wonders if there any perl hackers in Amsterdam *not* working for booking :-)
16:53 fglock yes, there are :)
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17:09 sorear WOAH!
17:09 sorear fglock \o/
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17:10 tadzik fglock: working with Bruno?
17:12 fglock tadzik: yes
17:12 fglock sorear: hi
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17:18 fglock sorear: somebody asked me about Perl 6 for the Windows phone, I've pointed out to Niecza
17:18 sorear Perl 6 exists offline now?
17:18 fglock offline?
17:19 Axius left #perl6
17:19 sorear outside #perl6 / perl.org ezmlm
17:19 fglock heh - yes, it does
17:20 fglock many people can't stay online, I guess
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17:31 dalek sprixel: db6b67f | diakopter++ | / (7 files):
17:31 dalek sprixel: add simple scalar variable interpolation into string literals; add modulus operator
17:31 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/db6b67f1d7
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17:42 dalek sprixel: c73fd92 | diakopter++ | sprixel/src/ (3 files):
17:42 dalek sprixel: interpolate only in double-quoted strings
17:42 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/c73fd9203f
17:49 fglock hmm - the compiler in Perlito is now 5 years old
17:49 fglock it is based on lrep, which started about february or march 2006
17:52 * pmurias remembers lrep
17:52 sorear lrep?
17:52 pmurias it was used to bootstrap mp5
17:52 pmurias * mp6
17:53 pmurias mp6 then evolved into kp6 (which died) and perlito (which lives on)
17:58 * sorear is very new here
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18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: d59b19a | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Pass along current view of $*GLOBALish to module loader. Needs to be optional param now until we take another trip around the bootstrapper.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d59b19ac5d
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 22efd68 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/22efd687c6
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 184a976 | jonathan++ | src/ModuleLoader.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: The dumbest GLOBAL merger that could possibly work (TM). Seems it actually will handle what NQP needs - or at least, it doesn't complain about anything.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/184a976c2e
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 2882b8e | jonathan++ | src/ModuleLoader.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make sure multiple uses of the same module won't run into issues.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2882b8ef5a
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: e46af01 | jonathan++ | src/ModuleLoader.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: A symbol can never conflict with itself.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e46af01858
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 57da2ce | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Extend find_lex, which finds a compile-time known lexical, to find_sym, which knows how to look in packages too.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/57da2ce61d
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 772f1f5 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Fix a thinko.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/772f1f5f2a
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19:14 lue hello world! o/
19:14 colomon \o
19:15 tadzik hello lue o/
19:15 birdwindupbird o/
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19:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: c15d820 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
19:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: [build] fix whitespaces in Makefile.in
19:24 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c15d820fcc
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19:27 tadzik :)
19:33 jnthn meh, that jnthn guy sucks... :P
19:34 jnthn moritz++ :)
19:34 moritz it's more that the file format sucks
19:34 moritz distinguishing blanks and tabs... meh.
19:34 jnthn :)
19:35 jnthn Well, the problem is that my make program agrees. So doesn't. :)
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19:44 jnthn moritz: Can I take your lack of other "oh noes" comments to mean the ctmo branch built fine for you other than this fix? :)
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20:01 moritz jnthn: yes
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20:04 jnthn moritz: OK, thanks.
20:04 moritz jnthn: parallel build is borked, but that's nothing new
20:05 jnthn moritz: I've just added a bunch of makefile dependencies here.
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20:05 jnthn moritz: Hit the point where I need it to be a bit more honest about those ever for normal build. :)
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20:05 jnthn Oh gah. I just also ran into Match not being a 6model class yet...
20:06 diakopter perlesque: https://gist.github.com/938925
20:06 p6eval perlesque: OUTPUT«socks 4 50␤sunglasses 7 20␤note-case 22 80␤waterproof overclothes 43 75␤waterproof trousers 42 70␤suntan cream 11 70␤banana 27 60␤glucose 15 60␤sandwich 50 160␤water 153 200␤compass 13 35␤map 9 150␤value: 1030 weight: 396␤»
20:06 diakopter oh good; that still works.
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20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: da7760a | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add a --module-path option so we can make sure we load the correct module during the bootstrap.
20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/da7760a24c
20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: e67c854 | jonathan++ | build/Makefile.in:
20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: Build Regex.pbc in the stages, like everything else. Also add a bunch of dependencies to try and get things a bit more honest. May go some way to helping the parallel build also.
20:09 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e67c854e13
20:11 * moritz tests
20:13 moritz jnthn: parallel build now succeeded (with -j3 )
20:14 moritz failures in 4 tests - you probably expect those
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20:15 jnthn yay :)
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20:15 jnthn moritz: Can you remember how far match-nom was from working?
20:15 jnthn moritz: Looking at the branch, it's hard to guess... :)
20:16 moritz jnthn: build fails
20:16 moritz jnthn: something related to vtables, you said, but I always got a different (and non-helpful) error message
20:19 jnthn moritz: OK
20:19 jnthn Whoa. I think git just managed to merge all of ctmo into that branch with just one conflict I had to fix by hand!
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20:20 moritz now imagine you'd have to do that with svn... :-)
20:20 jnthn "Can only use get_how on a SixModelObject"
20:21 * jnthn looks at how hard it'll be to fix
20:21 diakopter Johnny Six is not alive
20:21 jnthn Wasn't planning to do this now but...it may be less hassle to do it than work around it.
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20:26 colomon do it!
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20:32 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 200 commits to nqp/match-nom by jnthn
20:34 * jnthn <3 git
20:49 dalek nqp/match-nom: b39657f | jonathan++ | / (5 files):
20:49 dalek nqp/match-nom: Various twiddles to bring that was done in the original match-nom branch up to date with the latest changes in ctmo.
20:49 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b39657f91f
20:49 jnthn OK, now I seem to be at a "real" error: "Malformed package declaration at line 10, near "('P6str') ""
20:50 jnthn e.g. something is busted with Match that affects the parse.
20:50 moritz that's the error I've been seeing all along, and which isn't helpful at all :(
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20:55 jnthn At least we see the same error now
20:55 jnthn Well, it's hard for the parser to give a good error if it's broken. ;)
20:55 jnthn The bug is that it actually hits the error condition.
20:55 jnthn Which I guess is because somehow it ends up with corrupted match state.
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20:58 moritz now it shows that we don't have tests for the Match object
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21:02 jnthn Well, at the moment we can't even parse a source file that just contains "1"...so something is fundementally busted somewhere.
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21:09 jnthn Oh..
21:09 jnthn $I0 = repr_get_attr_int self, cur_class, '$!from'
21:09 jnthn $I0 = repr_get_attr_int self, cur_class, '$!to'
21:09 jnthn $I2 = isge $I1, $I0
21:09 jnthn ...I'm guessing one of those should set $I1.
21:09 moritz ... yes.
21:10 moritz the second one, presumably
21:10 jnthn I presume so
21:10 jnthn The parsetraces made it look like every match always matched...
21:10 jnthn Which led here. :)
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21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: 6677389 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Cursor-builtins.pir:
21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: Restore some DEBUG capabilities.
21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6677389462
21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: e886b7e | jonathan++ | src/Regex/Match.pir:
21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: Fix a probable copy-pasto. Also toss some useless :vtable declarations - we set those up via the meta-object now.
21:12 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/e886b7e663
21:12 jnthn moritz: With that fixed we can actually parse and compile simple programs using the match-nom branch.
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21:14 jnthn Latest error is about get_string_keyed() not implemented, which is probably not too hard to fix.
21:14 lue joined #perl6
21:14 jnthn But it goes pretty deep into the parse of the meta-objects now.
21:20 donri left #perl6
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21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: 48e3d16 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: We don't implement the string-returning keyed variants of the v-table yet; just work around that, since the values for now are all stored boxed anyway, so it doesn't matter to much where we unbox.
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/48e3d16f37
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: ad848d0 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: Make sure we really do consider all available Parrot v-table indexes when building the overloads array; we missed some off the end.
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/ad848d0305
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: 8b9383f | jonathan++ | src/pmc/sixmodelobject.pmc:
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: Make unshift_pmc and push_pmc overridable.
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8b9383f362
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: af53a9b | jonathan++ | src/core/NQPCapture.pm:
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: Override unshift_pmc and push_pmc in NQPCapture.
21:40 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/af53a9b0b0
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21:47 dalek sprixel: 2b2adbf | diakopter++ | / (9 files):
21:47 dalek sprixel: more p6 grammar interpreter work - end-of-input, string literals
21:47 dalek sprixel: review: https://github.com/diakopte​r/sprixel/commit/2b2adbf7dc
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: af16e75 | jonathan++ | src/core/NQPCapture.pm:
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: Implement .list and .hash on NQPCapture.
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/af16e75423
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: 354eff8 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/Grammar.pm:
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: Fix an earlier fix. D'oh.
22:08 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/354eff89b7
22:09 jnthn With this, match-nom now parses the meta-objects and module loader. Now just to track down that's going on in the setting...
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22:21 dalek nqp/match-nom: 15a19ea | jonathan++ | src/core/NQPCapture.pm:
22:21 dalek nqp/match-nom: Unfortunately, we rely on the semantics of Capture returning PMCNULL; mimic that for now in NQPCapture. This is the last bug that stood in the way of NQP completely building on match-nom. No test regressions either! No speed win, though that's not entirely surprising at this point - there's several known sub-optimalities. moritz++ for most of the work on match-nom.
22:21 dalek nqp/match-nom: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/15a19eaf00
22:24 jnthn To clarify, I expect the object-y bits are mostly more optimal, but moving Capture to NQP has produced other costs that we can't yet optimize away. And we're not even emitting the object-y bits optimally yet either (can't until I finish up this compile-time meta-objects work).
22:25 jnthn It *should* be a memory win as match objects now inline the from/to directly as ints in the object, rather than making Integer PMCs.
22:26 donri joined #perl6
22:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: 05aa5ed | jonathan++ | / (117 files):
22:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: Merging ctmo into match-nom.
22:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/05aa5ed8d7
22:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: b39657f | jonathan++ | / (5 files):
22:26 dalek nqp/ctmo: Various twiddles to bring that was done in the original match-nom branch up to date with the latest changes in ctmo.
22:26 dalek left #perl6
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22:32 dalek nqp/ctmo: dccac63 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
22:32 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap.
22:32 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/dccac638e2
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22:42 polettix perl6: any <one two three>
22:42 p6eval niecza v4-69-g4db171f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤      'any' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1141 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 75)␤  at
22:42 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/…
22:42 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo ecc4ef:  ( no output )
22:43 polettix perl6: any <one two three>;
22:43 p6eval niecza v4-69-g4db171f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤      'any' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1141 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 75)␤  at
22:43 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/…
22:43 p6eval ..pugs, rakudo ecc4ef:  ( no output )
22:44 polettix perl6: my $x = any <one two three>; $x.say;
22:44 p6eval rakudo ecc4ef: OUTPUT«any("one", "two", "three")␤»
22:44 p6eval ..niecza v4-69-g4db171f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤      'any' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1141 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 75)␤  at
22:44 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/…
22:44 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«any(VStr "one",VStr "three",VStr "two")␤»
22:44 polettix perl6: my $x = any<one two three>; $x.say;
22:45 p6eval niecza v4-69-g4db171f: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Undeclared routine:␤      'any' used at line Any()1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1141 (STD P6.comp_unit @ 75)␤  at
22:45 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/…
22:45 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** Odd number of elements found where hash expected: VJunc any()␤    at /tmp/Ajx7q3sCzH line 1, column 4-27␤»
22:45 p6eval ..rakudo ecc4ef: OUTPUT«any()␤»
22:45 polettix is that space really necessary?
22:45 sorear yes
22:46 polettix where can I found out more about it?
22:47 polettix (which I hope to be a polite way of asking "why?")
22:47 sorear I forgot
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22:48 sorear but the issue has to do with ambiguities
22:48 sorear for instance, "if %foo{12} { ... }"
22:49 sorear the required lack of space on hash subscripts allows Perl 6 to parse that
22:50 jnthn S02 talks about it a bit, starting "In general, whitespace is optional in Perl 6..."
22:52 polettix thanks!
22:56 polettix cheers
22:56 polettix left #perl6
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23:47 gavin2u hi buddy
23:49 sorear ?
23:52 gavin2u left #perl6

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