Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-27

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:53 sorear good * #perl6
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01:55 colomon \o
01:56 Tene phenny: ask masak how that sliding window alg we discussed worked out for him.
01:56 phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
01:56 Tene phenny: thanks
02:16 PerlJam re the viking bear looking like masak ... years ago I took an art class where we were paired and how to sculpt our partner in clay.  The teacher said that invariably the sculpture ended up looking like the sculptor rather than the subject.  So perhaps there's some truth to "making things in our own image" :-)
02:16 PerlJam s/how/had/
02:16 PerlJam (the teachers words were borne out in our experience too)
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03:29 geekosaur it's certainly true from a cognitive point of view
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04:28 sorear mm, niecza bootstrap failed
04:28 sorear looks like there won't be a release this month
04:29 sorear v5 will most likely come out May 1 or so after I have time to sort out what broke
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07:23 moritz jnthn: I get two test failures in ctmo (t/setting/ {hash,resizablepmcarray}) - is that expected?
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07:36 tadzik same here
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08:05 jnthn ohhai
08:05 jnthn moritz: We don't go fiddling with Parrot types in NQP's setting any more.
08:05 jnthn moritz: So the tests are no longer valid.
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08:11 moritz ok 4 - Join elements
08:11 moritz Could not find sub join
08:11 moritz so sub join() is gone?
08:12 jnthn moritz: I'm fine with that being put back.
08:12 jnthn moritz: Didn't remove it intentionally.
08:12 jnthn Just needs to go in one of the files in core, or add one.
08:12 * mathw mutters darkly about namespace pollution mumble mumble
08:13 jnthn The only intentional change is we don't monkey-patch Parrot's PMCs any more. :)
08:13 jnthn It was a little anti-social, after all. ;)
08:13 moritz a bit javascript-esque
08:13 jnthn mathw: Relax. It's a setting. It's just the outer lexical scope of your program. :)
08:14 jnthn mathw: Compile with --setting=MYAWESOMESETTING and you can define your own. ;)
08:14 mathw \o/
08:14 mathw or just redefine join if I want to :D
08:14 mathw I do like the idea that the setting is just another lexical scope
08:14 mathw it makes so much sense
08:14 jnthn :)
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08:27 rhebus \
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09:01 rhebus gah ssh is being totally weird with my github usernames
09:02 rhebus it keeps authenticating as the wrong user, even when i hide that user's id_rsa from ssh
09:02 rhebus i don't know how that's even possible
09:02 donri does perl6 have reserved keywords that can be syntax errors to use for identifiers?
09:02 donri or does TTIAR "solve" that
09:03 moritz donri: it has nothing to do with TTIAR
09:03 donri oh? :)
09:03 moritz rakudo: my %h = if => 3; say %h.perl
09:03 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«{"if" => 3}␤»
09:03 moritz rakudo: sub if() { say "alive" }; if();
09:03 donri i suppose
09:03 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«alive␤»
09:03 moritz rakudo: sub if() { say "alive" }; if;
09:03 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«alive␤»
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09:03 donri i'm thinking in python, where i think TTIAR *would* be a solution if it was used
09:04 mathw What's TTIAR?
09:04 donri two terms in a row
09:04 moritz two terms in a row
09:04 mathw ah
09:04 mathw that
09:04 donri nowait there are situations where ttiar isn't enough in python
09:04 donri recv = yield
09:05 * moritz doesn't see two terms in a row
09:06 donri exactly :P
09:06 donri i was working under the assumption that all situations involving keywords are ttiar in python
09:06 donri it's an example to the contrary
09:06 donri also i might be misusing the term 'ttiar'
09:07 donri + i'm probably thinking of 'statements' rather than keywords
09:07 moritz to answer your question, Perl 6 does not have reserved words
09:07 donri ok :)
09:07 donri they're rather annoying in python
09:08 moritz but it doesn't matter all that much, because variables and attributes have sigils anyway
09:08 donri i guess it makes sense in python's philosophy to keep the grammar simple and the rules obvious but "meh"
09:08 donri moritz: well, subs
09:08 moritz so even if perl had reserved words, $next wouldn't collide with next;
09:09 jnthn Recently when reading some C# code, I did a double take when I saw a variable whose name started with an @
09:09 donri do you have to use () to disambiguate then?
09:09 jnthn I was like "huh, C# doesn't have sigils?!"
09:09 jnthn So I went and read the langauge grammar.
09:09 moritz rakudo: sub if() { say "alive" }; if
09:09 jnthn Turns out that if you want to use a reserved word as a variable name, you put an @ before it. :D
09:09 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«alive␤»
09:10 donri rakudo: if
09:10 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &if␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/6UULO6r94d␤»
09:10 donri it's not really ambigous if it's not syntactically an if
09:10 moritz jnthn: is that allowed for non-reserved words as well?
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09:11 jnthn moritz: yes ;)
09:11 donri rakudo: sub next() { say "next!"; }; multi sub dostuff() { next; }; dostuff()
09:11 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«next!␤»
09:11 jnthn moritz: So I could start using it on all my arrays :)
09:11 donri how do you get the 'next' statement instead?
09:11 donri or is it a sub?
09:11 jnthn I think it's a sub and you've just gone and overridden it :)
09:12 donri aye
09:12 jnthn Probably you can get the "real" one with SETTING::next();
09:12 jnthn In theory. Not in current Rakudo.
09:12 moritz jnthn: I should troll some C# boards on the internet suggesting to always use @ on variables as a "best" practice
09:12 moritz or OUTER::next() or so
09:12 jnthn moritz: :D
09:12 mathw moritz: yes yes!
09:12 mathw do it
09:12 donri but is there any situation such that i'm trying
09:12 mathw then they can come tell us we need to use SETTING::next() always in case someone overrides it
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09:12 mathw and then we can practise our defenestration
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09:13 donri is @ part of the identifier in C#?
09:13 donri the convention in python is "append _" but it's part of the name so you have to handle that case everywhere
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09:14 moritz "meh"
09:14 * jnthn wrestles with PAST::Compiler
09:14 * mathw thinks Python has a few too many underscores in some places
09:17 donri hehe
09:18 mathw I don't get why __init__
09:18 mathw it looks like some sort of dirty compiler internal to me
09:18 mathw why not just reserve all uppercase identifiers as special and call it INIT?
09:18 mathw oh wait we did that here already :)
09:19 dalek nqp/ctmo: 7aa35a5 | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
09:19 dalek nqp/ctmo: Add a way to take a type object and find out if its representation considers itself as representing a boxed primitive.
09:19 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/7aa35a51b9
09:47 rhebus can someone add ppotter as a committer so i can update t/spec/S32-str/indent.t with a new plan?
09:48 bbkr_ tadzik: my Pies bootstrap problem occured on Debian 5.0 "Linux dev.v.l 2.6.29.2-vs2.3.0.36.12 #1 SMP Fri May 8 16:22:41 CEST 2009 i686 GNU/Linux", with libtest-harness-perl 3.12-1 installed
09:48 phenny bbkr_: 26 Apr 20:08Z <tadzik> tell bbkr_ what os is that? Is that possible that 0 is not a success on it?
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09:49 bbkr_ tadzik: 0 means success, nothing exotic here
09:49 tadzik strange
09:49 tadzik you can reproduce that, righ?
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09:50 bbkr_ checking...
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09:52 bbkr_ yes
09:52 tadzik oh, I has a bug
09:52 bbkr_ i'll check if it has something to do with TODO tests
09:52 tadzik my thought is maybe prove gives some non-zero exit status on such occasion
09:54 tadzik bugs! bugs everywhere!
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09:55 rhebus who handles pull requests for perl6/roast?
09:56 moritz rhebus: nobody, which is why we hand out commit bits instead :-)
09:56 moritz rhebus: what's your github ID?
09:56 rhebus ppotter
09:56 moritz hugme: add ppotter to perl6
09:56 * hugme hugs ppotter. Welcome to the perl6 github organization
09:56 rhebus nice one
09:57 dalek roast: 5f51953 | (Philip Potter)++ | S32-str/indent.t:
09:57 dalek roast: add plan to S32-str/indent.t
09:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5f5195342d
09:57 moritz rhebus++
09:58 rhebus yeah, github-- or ssh-- or something. i have 2 github accounts; rhebus is already a perl6 committer but i just can't get rhebus's identity to auth through ssh atm :(
10:01 moritz you can configure the public ssh key that github uses for auth
10:02 moritz https://github.com/account -> SSH Public Keys
10:05 tadzik what the hell, pies stopped to even build for me
10:10 tadzik zsh: segmentation fault  panda install .
10:10 tadzik ohgreat
10:11 bbkr_ tadzik: confirmed, when prove has any todo() test passed it returns 1 on exit.
10:12 tadzik cool
10:12 tadzik what does it return on error?
10:12 bbkr_ tadzik: 1
10:13 tadzik supercool >{(
10:13 bbkr_ I removed todo() from JSON::Tiny 04-roundtrip.t and Pies installed
10:14 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/42225
10:14 bbkr_ which is weird, because according to TAP::Harness todo test always pass
10:16 bbkr_ and rakudo.org is down (blank page). day for disasters :)
10:19 tadzik meh, turns out it's me who broke my parrot :)
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10:42 rhebus t/spec/S19-command-line/dash-e.t fails on my system; i suspect, though, it's my shell and not rakudo which is at fault here
10:42 rhebus http://smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/tap_stream/15626/389
10:43 rhebus other people seem to have the same issue, but it's not universal: http://smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/test_file_history/5/1015
10:50 rhebus perl6: say q{\c[LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE]}
10:50 p6eval pugs, rakudo 8533c3, niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«\c[LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE]␤»
10:50 rhebus perl6: say q[\c[LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE]]
10:51 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method ast in class List␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaActions.pm6 line 944 (NieczaActions C384_ANON @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaActions.pm6 line 990 (NieczaActions NieczaActions.process_nibble @ 4)␤  at
10:51 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/sr…
10:51 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«\c[LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DOT ABOVE]␤»
10:51 p6eval ..rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "]"␤»
10:52 rhebus i suspect that the second test in t/spec/S19-command-line/dash-e.t is incorrect; it looks like a single-quotish context but it expects interpolation
10:53 rhebus oh wait, i'm getting confused
10:53 rhebus perl6: say q[ȧ]
10:53 p6eval rakudo 8533c3, niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«ȧ␤»
10:53 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«decodeUTF8': bad data: '\551'␤ȧ␤»
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10:59 rhebus so yeah, here is the summary of the issue I'm seeing: http://scsys.co.uk:8002/99941
11:00 rhebus http://scsys.co.uk:8002/99942 shows that echo works fine, so i'm not sure where the encoding issue is creeping in
11:07 rhebus huh, --target=parse doesn't give any output for -e programs -- anyone else see this?
11:13 TiMBuS yep its a known issue
11:14 rhebus ok
11:14 rhebus is there a bug report system for smolder.parrot.org?
11:14 TiMBuS ¯\(°_o)/¯
11:15 rhebus :/
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11:25 moritz rhebus: the software itself is on CPAN, so it has a queue in the CPAN rt
11:25 moritz rhebus: as for this particular installation... ask in #parrot (on irc.perl.org)
11:25 rhebus ooh, thanks
11:25 rhebus *scurries*
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11:53 colomon moritz, jnthn, masak: what are you guys using to make presentations?
11:56 moritz colomon: a custom perl script that generates HTML, and the 's5' html+js+CSS framework
11:56 moritz https://github.com/moritz/perltalk/
11:56 moritz I think jnthn uses powerpoint
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11:56 moritz and masak writes a new script for each presentation :-)
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11:58 colomon So the physics file is the source for the talk?
11:59 colomon and can embed p6 code?
12:02 moritz those slides marked with :perl6 are highlighted as Perl 6
12:02 moritz with Text::VimColor, vim and perl6.vim
12:02 moritz the file 'talk' contains another talk
12:02 moritz yes, very clever file names, I know :-)
12:03 colomon moritz++
12:03 colomon Ack, I don't have HTML::Template::Compiled installed, and I just got a bunch of test failures when I tried to install it.
12:04 moritz oh
12:04 moritz there's a new development version which fixes those on perl 5.12
12:04 moritz HTML-Template-Compiled-0.94_002
12:04 moritz cpanm HTML-Template-Compiled-0.94_002 # should help
12:05 colomon moritz++
12:06 colomon errr, that doesn't actually work?   "Cannot make HTML-Template-Compiled-0.94_002, don't know what it is."
12:07 moritz cpanm http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/T/TI/TINITA/HTML-Template-Compiled-0.94_002.tar.gz
12:07 * moritz tries to get the maintainer to release the last version as non-devel
12:10 colomon is cpanm a typo or something different from cpan?
12:10 arnsholt CPAN minus IIRC
12:10 moritz App::cpanminus
12:10 arnsholt A simpler CPAN client
12:10 colomon ah
12:11 takadonet colomon: you will love it
12:11 moritz very convenient, asks far fewer (I think "none") questions
12:11 mathw it actually works
12:11 takadonet morning all
12:11 moritz and it Just Works[tm]
12:11 takadonet faster too
12:11 mathw which I find is a big plus point
12:11 * colomon is now using cpan to get cpanm.  ;)
12:11 moritz colomon: that's the last thing I used cpan for :-)
12:12 * BinGOs uses cpanm to bootstrap cpanp when he needs to.
12:12 colomon ah, yes, that seems to be helping matters greatly.  :)
12:13 BinGOs cpanm doesn't do test reporting so is of no use to me apart from bootstrapping something I can use to do test reporting.
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13:16 dalek star: 589a29d | pmichaud++ | skel/docs/announce/2011.04:
13:16 dalek star: Add 2011.04 release announcement.
13:16 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/589a29de4c
13:18 * PerlJam looks forward to the time when 6model and GSoC gives us some of those not-quite-there features.
13:21 dalek star: 8c68a22 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
13:21 dalek star: Bump Makefile and gen_parrot versions.
13:21 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/8c68a22de0
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13:36 * jnthn back
13:39 takadonet jnthn: wb
13:39 * mikemol is pleased the pi spigot sequence has been so interesting.
13:43 jnthn My talks from OSDC.TW are available as video! Includes Perl 6 Signatures: http://video.osdc.tw/1301385198.mp4 and Inside A Compiler: http://video.osdc.tw/1301386903.mp4
13:44 moritz is the signature talk the same as at YAPC::EU?
13:45 jnthn Yes
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13:51 colomon jnthn: do you have all your talks located in one convenient place on the web?  I'd like to point people to them in my presentation.  :)
13:51 jnthn colomon: http://www.jnthn.net/articles.shtml
13:51 colomon jnthn++
13:52 * moritz wonders if that's linked to from perl6.org
13:54 arnsholt jnthn: The TPJ link at the bottom of that page is dead
13:54 arnsholt Apparently tpj.com is for sale
13:54 jnthn arnsholt: Ah...
13:54 jnthn I don't think I've seen the bottom of that page for a loooong time :)
13:55 arnsholt Yeah, the length of that page is quite impressive
14:03 dalek perl6.org: c64b77f | moritz++ | source/documentation/index.html:
14:03 dalek perl6.org: [documentation] lik to the excellent presentations by jnhtn++
14:03 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/c64b77f50f
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14:13 tadzik oh oh, star is today?
14:14 colomon looks like.  \o/
14:15 tadzik dang, I wanted to push Panda there
14:15 moritz hurry up, maybe it's not too late
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14:15 tadzik pmichaud: how much time until the Star release?
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14:16 pmichaud tadzik: I was wondering if Panda is ready for release.   I'm thinking of including it
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14:17 pmichaud tadzik: if you think Panda should be included, I'm inclined to agree
14:17 pmichaud right now I'm just doing some basic testing and building stuff, so I think there's time
14:17 moritz it's the only working module installer we have :-)
14:17 pmichaud (working installer)  Yes, I know.  :-)
14:18 PerlJam We need more animal named software so that we can have the "lions and tigers and bears" release of Rakudo Star  :)
14:20 tadzik pmichaud: the problem is it started segfaulting for me today. Surely Parrot's fault, but disturbing anyway
14:20 tadzik see http://nopaste.snit.ch/42225
14:20 pmichaud tadzik: using Parrot 3.3.0 ?
14:21 tadzik aye
14:21 tadzik well, the git version from --gen-parrot
14:21 tadzik I'll to remove it completely, bootstrap and install a few things
14:21 pmichaud tadzik:  I'll test it here also.  But my plan was to try to include Panda in the release.
14:22 tadzik cool
14:22 pmichaud afk for a bit (errands)
14:22 tadzik oh, I was also thinking about removing some of the modules from the META.list, so the star-panda (oh the pun!) will contain only those installable and working (more or less)
14:23 moritz +1 from me
14:25 tadzik oh good, it didn't segfault now, while bootstraping
14:26 tadzik moritz: I'm going to remove all the modules from SHELTER from the META.list, they'll still live in the shelter and in the old projects.list, what do you think?
14:27 moritz tadzik: do they install?
14:27 tadzik moritz: not all of them
14:27 tadzik I can try some
14:27 tadzik I know a plenty of them have some missing dependencies
14:28 tadzik okay, after a full reinstalation of panda and deps it doesn't segfault anymore
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14:34 tadzik uh-oh, does LWP::Simple build for anyone?
14:35 moritz it tested fine last I tried
14:35 tadzik t/get-rakudo-org.t .............. Method 'match' not found for invocant of class ''
14:35 tadzik oh wait, isn't rakudo.org down?
14:35 tadzik I believe LWP::Simple needs a better testing target
14:36 moritz just a sec, I can fix it
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14:38 moritz tadzik: fix pushed
14:39 tadzik moritz: pushed where?
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14:39 moritz tadzik: git@github.com:cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple.git
14:40 tadzik ok, works
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14:41 pmichaud ...why is rakudo.org down?
14:42 * moritz has no idea, but it has happened a few times recently
14:43 pmichaud That's... not good.
14:43 moritz agreed.
14:43 dalek ecosystem: 2d8ceac | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
14:43 dalek ecosystem: Module::Tools has no tests and is broken, kill it with fire
14:43 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/2d8ceac13e
14:43 pmichaud I think I'll set up a new site for rakudo on my server (WordPress)
14:44 tadzik colomon: Testing is broken, isn't it?
14:44 colomon tadzik: not so far as I know...
14:44 pmichaud Maybe we can get Andy to point rakudo.org to a new location
14:44 tadzik colomon: .notdef is used
14:44 alester pmichaud: No, it's not good.
14:44 tadzik rakudo: "dupa".notdef
14:44 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«.notdef is deprecated, please use negated .defined instead␤  in 'Mu::notdef' at line 1293:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/s2NfPypQS9␤»
14:45 alester I am going to point elsewhere.
14:45 alester I'm not at all in love with Drupal.
14:45 pmichaud I agree, Drupal has been painful.
14:45 alester s/going/willing/
14:45 colomon tadzik: looking into it now
14:45 pmichaud anyway, I'll set up wordpress on my server today and we can start populating it
14:45 alester pmichaud: What do you need form me?
14:45 pmichaud (I have wordpress installed already... I just need to set up the account(s))
14:46 alester If there's some convert-o-dump-o-tron that needs DB access or whatever, let me know.
14:46 alester pmichaud: I also have WordPress installed.
14:46 alester But if you wanna drive, that's fine.
14:46 pmichaud alester: I'll use mine for now...  I think I'm a little less squeamish about giving out access to my server than you are :)
14:47 alester pmichaud: Probably ture.
14:47 alester Thanks for driving.
14:47 pmichaud anyway, yeah -- the biggest question is how much of the old content from rakudo.org we feel we need to preserve (and how to get it)
14:48 alester And then I can shoot Drupal. :-)
14:48 moritz it would be nice to preserve some URLs (not necessarily pages) that are linked everywhere
14:48 moritz like how-to-get-rakudo
14:48 tadzik FWIW, I'm now installing every module in the ecosystem to see which are working to at least some extend
14:49 colomon tadzik: Testing fix pushed
14:49 moritz tadzik++
14:49 tadzik colomon++, great
14:49 pmichaud I'm certain we can preserve urls if rakudo.org is forwarded somewhere
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15:00 tadzik also, Perl6-Term--ANSIColor is unmaintained since I remember, and all of my attempts to contact its author failed. Mind if I remove that? We have another Term::ANSIColor, tested and maintained
15:00 tadzik (and mine, but that's a coincidence)
15:00 pmichaud +1
15:02 moritz tadzik: go right ahead
15:02 moritz tadzik: if the author complains, we can tell him to fix his module and re-add it to the index file :-)
15:02 tadzik :)
15:03 tadzik I hope masak doesn't mind if I remove pun
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15:04 tadzik ==> Succesfully installed Proto
15:04 tadzik nice
15:04 dalek ecosystem: ccc953a | tadzik++ | META.list:
15:04 dalek ecosystem: Remove some obsolete modules
15:04 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/ccc953a269
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15:11 tadzik wow, perl6-ioc looks like Bread::Board for Perl 6. It seems a bit unmaintaned, but it builds and tests fine
15:12 tadzik this smokebuilding experience should be blagged about today
15:12 moritz it's rather new, iirc
15:12 tadzik hmm, right, January this year
15:13 tadzik seen jasonmay
15:13 aloha jasonmay was last seen in #perl6 12 days 22 hours ago saying ".oO( has $.x is service lifecycle Singleton depends-on <y z> )".
15:13 tadzik oh, a resident :)
15:14 tadzik phenny: tell jasonmay hey, your perl6-ioc looks quite nice, would you mind adding a META.info to it thus fulfilling the latest modules' spec?
15:14 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when jasonmay is around.
15:14 jasonmay sure
15:14 phenny jasonmay: 15:14Z <tadzik> tell jasonmay hey, your perl6-ioc looks quite nice, would you mind adding a META.info to it thus fulfilling the latest modules' spec?
15:14 tadzik oh, cool :)
15:15 tadzik do we really need perl6-examples in the ecosystem? I don't remember when that was buildable
15:16 moritz no, IMHO
15:16 tadzik by "in the ecosystem" I really mean "available for installation"
15:16 dalek ecosystem: 6e6bc12 | tadzik++ | META.list:
15:16 dalek ecosystem: Remove perl6-examples
15:16 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/6e6bc125d9
15:16 tadzik okay, tried all of them
15:16 tadzik results: http://nopaste.snit.ch/42233
15:17 tadzik the notworking ones are not so common thing to do any mass removal imho
15:17 tadzik maybe there will appear someone who will want to fix them even
15:18 jasonmay tadzik: http://pastie.org/1839606 -- would this be sufficient
15:18 jasonmay I basically cargo culted from one of the other files in the ecosystem
15:18 jasonmay html-template I think
15:18 tadzik that's a good way to do it
15:19 tadzik jasonmay: that should be source-type and source-url, the former being optional. Otherwise it's perfect
15:19 tadzik I don't think otherwise is the word I'm looking for
15:19 moritz we're switching from 'repo' to 'source' because tarballs are not repos
15:20 jasonmay pushed
15:20 tadzik jasonmay++
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15:21 dalek ecosystem: ce89679 | tadzik++ | META.list:
15:21 dalek ecosystem: IoC doesn't need no SHELTER
15:21 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/ce8967971b
15:23 pmichaud the latest rakudo star test build runs significantly slower on my system than the 2011.01 build
15:23 pmichaud like, about 40% slower
15:23 moritz wow
15:23 pmichaud I'll run again in case I was doing something weird
15:23 moritz what does parrot_config gc  say ?
15:24 tadzik wasn't ms2 default for 3.3?
15:24 moritz oh, the config key doesn't exist
15:24 moritz yes
15:24 moritz pmichaud: make sure to compile with --gc=gms
15:24 pmichaud but the rakudo configure script assumes --gc=gms
15:24 moritz s/compile/configure parrot/
15:24 pmichaud unless the star confi..... right
15:24 pmichaud Star doesn't use Rakudo's configure to build parrot
15:25 pmichaud okay, fixing.
15:25 tadzik okay, I declare panda star-ready
15:25 tadzik it has some LTA things, but it's usable more than annoying
15:25 pmichaud tadzik: could you update the star makefile(s) as appropriate?
15:25 pmichaud tadzik: or do you need me to do that?
15:25 tadzik pmichaud: I think I can do that, yes
15:25 tadzik pmichaud: I can also fill in some of the NEWS, if that's ok for you
15:25 pmichaud please
15:26 pmichaud tadzik++
15:26 tadzik no problem with that
15:27 tadzik pmichaud: mind if I also remove those modules which proved to be not working?
15:27 pmichaud tadzik: please do that.  make sure we note the removals in the announcement
15:28 tadzik pmichaud: I'd take care of it
15:33 dalek star: f742a45 | pmichaud++ | skel/Configure.pl:
15:33 dalek star: Add --gc=gms to Parrot configuration options.
15:33 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/f742a4535a
15:34 colomon pmichaud: Current slowness is consistent with my benchmarks.  Alas, still haven't had a proper chance to look into it.
15:35 pmichaud I'm trying again now with --gc=gms
15:36 jnthn *drum roll*
15:36 dalek nqp/ctmo: 0ff3ff4 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
15:36 dalek nqp/ctmo: First cut of natively typed attributes (int/num/str). Code gen could be better, but it works.
15:36 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0ff3ff4c27
15:36 colomon jnthn++: \o/
15:37 pmichaud parrot_config option is "gc_type", fwiw.
15:37 pmichaud (I'm continually amazed at how many times Parrot uses multiple names for the same option.)
15:38 pmichaud and its value is "GMS" instead of "gms"
15:38 alester pmichaud: WHY NO HAVE WORDPRESS DONE YET
15:38 alester HURRY UP, QUICKER
15:38 pmichaud (I'm continually amazed at Parrot's inconsistent use of capitals.)
15:38 dalek star: c38a2a6 | tadzik++ | / (3 files):
15:38 dalek star: Remove some of the not working modules, add some new. Note the changes in the announcement
15:38 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/c38a2a6fd2
15:38 alester IT BEEN WHOLE 49 MINUTES NOW
15:38 jnthn Uniquitous language fail...
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15:40 jnthn colomon: I suspect some other leak is going on somewhere, but initial testing suggests that if you make a complex type with objects attributes and one with two native num attributes, then half a million instances of complex come out at 20 meg less or so.
15:40 colomon jnthn: !!!!!!!
15:41 tadzik oh my
15:41 tadzik that's super-cool
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15:41 jnthn colomon: Note that this still has 500,000 objects hanging around in memory. Once we do packed arrays, my complex @foo; can pack them in so it's one big chunk.
15:41 jnthn But even so, this is a nice bit of progress :)
15:42 * colomon wants 6model to land in Rakudo very badly...
15:42 jnthn colomon: My NQP pre-req task list is shrinking rapidly.
15:42 tadzik jnthn: if you try very hard, would you be able to ship it before Star? :P
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15:43 tadzik I mean, you know, everybody's waiting and stuff ;)
15:43 jnthn Sure. :P
15:43 jnthn So long as I don't have to say *which* Star release. :P
15:43 tadzik aw, snap!
15:43 dalek star: 227e50e | tadzik++ | skel/docs/announce/2011.04:
15:43 dalek star: Add some advertising to the announcement
15:43 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/227e50ed22
15:45 jnthn So, what's next...
15:45 * jnthn glances his todo list
15:45 jnthn eww :)
15:46 jnthn Whenever my next task has "circularity" in it, I know it's gonna hurt some...
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16:01 pmichaud anyone who wants to author/admin on the new rakudo.org, please go to http://rakudoperl.org/wp/   and click the "Register" link at the bottom-right
16:02 mj41 left #perl6
16:03 jnthn pmichaud: registered (jnthn)
16:05 pmichaud jnthn/colomon: you now have admin privs
16:05 colomon thanks
16:06 jnthn yay
16:06 jnthn pmichaud++
16:07 * PerlJam has registered also
16:07 PerlJam (does this mean that rakudo.org is going away or what?)
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16:08 pmichaud rakudoperl.org is a domain I already own; we'll hopefully get rakudo.org to forward to rakudoperl.org or something like that
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16:12 pmichaud PerlJam/Util:  updated
16:13 pmichaud I have a lunch meeting I have to go to... I'll bbi120.  Feel free to update things on the rakudoperl site as you see fit.
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16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: cc013b6 | jonathan++ | src/ (5 files):
16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: Setup the very basic KnowHOWAttribute in 6model core rather than leaving every HLL the problem of setting up an initial one. It's especially a pain if you're going to have a compile time meta-model and need the attribute meta-object available to the compiler. (FWIW, nqpclr ended up with this in core too, though with a different initial motivation.)
16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/cc013b68b2
16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: 2af2457 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: Start using KnowHOWAttribute from the 6model core instead. Means we now create all meta-attributes during the compile. Toss the knowhow-specific workarounds.
16:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2af2457e7d
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16:59 sunnavy date
17:00 sunnavy oops
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17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: 28dbe5e | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap with various attribute changes.
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/28dbe5eb7d
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: 74ac547 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Toss the now-unused KnowHOWAttribute.pm.
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/74ac547d6b
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: 835b51e | jonathan++ | src/Regex/ (3 files):
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: Fix lookups of meta-objects in regex library.
17:20 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/835b51ec4d
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17:51 masak oh hai, #perl6
17:51 phenny masak: 01:56Z <Tene> ask masak how that sliding window alg we discussed worked out for him.
17:53 tadzik oh hi masak
17:53 masak Tene: heh, I already wrote a solution for that problem -- was curious how to do it "right" for next time. :) right now I've moved on to other problems at $work... but I'll keep on the lookout for similar problems.
17:53 masak hai tadzik
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17:54 sorear hi masak
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17:54 masak Tene: I like the syntax I arrived at at the bottom of https://gist.github.com/942868 -- it exposes the essential complexity and hides the accidental complexity. the remaining problems I have it are miniscule.
17:54 masak sorear: hi there :)
17:57 masak sorear: if I were to toy around with the grammar extensions and AST transformations necessary to make something like that gist DTRT, should I try doing it in Niecza, or in the new 6model-enhanced nqp?
17:59 * masak keeps tugging at loose end of the future :)
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18:07 sorear I don't totally understand what OVER is supposed to do here
18:07 sorear also I don't know what new-nqp is capable of
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18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 177dadd | jonathan++ | src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Toss a bunch of legacy package installations that we no longer need (this means that all type lookups are certainly working through the new packages).
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/177daddb23
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: 5d65440 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update some package lookups.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5d65440963
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: c408fe7 | jonathan++ | src/Regex/ (3 files):
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: More legacy package lookup/installation cleanups.
18:10 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/c408fe79c0
18:10 sorear jnthn: grr, I'm gonna have so much catching up to do when I get my tuits back :D
18:11 jnthn sorear: :)
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18:17 masak sorear: OVER is supposed to hide the bookkeeping that the upper, uncommented code exposes. the two pieces of code are meant to do the same thing.
18:18 masak jnthn: how difficult would it be to introduce something like OVER in nqp at this point? just as an experiment.
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18:18 masak Moukeddar: arf!
18:19 tadzik was that an evil panda sound?
18:19 Moukeddar arf!?
18:19 * masak keeps silent and practices a piercing look
18:19 Moukeddar what happened to ROAAAR!
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18:20 TimToady perl6: my @fib := 0, 1, @fib Z+ @fib[1..*]; say @fib[10];
18:20 masak Moukeddar: in here, we tend to yap rather than roar :)
18:20 Moukeddar shell pirecing look ?
18:20 p6eval rakudo 8533c3, niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:20 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
18:20 TimToady pugs: my @fib := (0, 1, @fib Z+ @fib[1..*]); say @fib[10];
18:20 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
18:20 masak TimToady: I've been told that that's never going to work, because there are no closures in there that will delay evaluation the way @fib needs to.
18:21 masak TimToady: I think sorear told me that.
18:21 TimToady um, the lists are lazy
18:21 newbee hi... what are the datatypes for date, time, and timedate in perl6? I know that Date and Duration works, bit Time don't:    use v6; class Task; has Str $.command is rw; has Time $.exec_time is rw; has Date $.exec_date is rw; has Duration $.exec_timeout is rw;
18:21 newbee It says that Time is not a valid datatype
18:22 TimToady and binding is not eager
18:22 masak newbee: Time does make much sense on its own. Date does.
18:22 jnthn masak: use NQP; class MyNQPGrammar is NQP::Grammar { ... }; class MyNQPActions is NQP::Actions { ... }; sub MAIN(*@ARGS) { ...same as in src/NQP/Compiler.pm but put your subclassed grammar/actions in instead... }
18:22 TimToady and the problem in rakudo is just that subscripting isn't lazy, I think
18:23 masak newbee: if you want, you could declare 'class Time { has $.hour; has $.minute; has $.second }'
18:23 masak newbee: but we don't do that for you because you might have different requirements beyond that.
18:23 newbee My intention was to use a "native" datatype for Time
18:23 masak newbee: maybe you're looking for Instant?
18:23 newbee is there any?
18:24 TimToady rakudo: say now.WHAT
18:24 tadzik Sure. Like counterspell, or terror :>
18:24 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Instant()␤»
18:24 tadzik I wonder if that joke isn't too hermetic
18:24 sorear TimToady: lists may be lazy but function calls aren't
18:24 newbee mmmm i see... Instant does that.. Much better than the generic "Time".. Thanks :D
18:24 sorear &infix:<,> has to evaluate both arguments right away
18:25 masak newbee: if it's any lead, "Instant" is for atomic time, whereas "DateTime" is for civil time.
18:26 TimToady sorear: fine, but Z+ is returning a lazy list that commits to nothing until munched, supposedly
18:26 TimToady er, hmm, precedence problem
18:26 TimToady perl6: my @fib := 0, 1, (@fib Z+ @fib[1..*]); say @fib[10];
18:26 masak the precedence with X and Z often surprises. but it's one of those can't-please-everyone problems.
18:27 p6eval rakudo 8533c3, niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:27 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
18:27 TimToady that's what I meant
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18:27 newbee i just need a Time without relation to a date.. i want to do a "schedule" system. For example, run this task at "14:30" for certain dates.
18:27 masak newbee: then I advise you to create a custom Time class.
18:27 sorear if we allow general functions like &zipwith to delay evaluation, we're opening a can of worms
18:27 masak or TimeOfDay or something.
18:27 sorear all the performance problems of Haskell without the elegance :)
18:28 pmichaud good afternoon, #perl6
18:28 masak pmichaud! \o/
18:28 jnthn o/ again, pmichaud :)
18:28 tadzik welcome back :)
18:29 sorear masak: I don't even understand what either version of the gist is supposed to do.
18:29 jnthn masak: fwiw, if you play with new nqp, I suggest doing so against the master branch. ctmo is where I feel free to break stuff. :)
18:29 TimToady sorear: I don't know what you mean by "delay evaluation"; the zipwith is called, but returns a lazy list that commits to nothing until munched
18:29 jnthn masak: When something becomes "good" I merge it to master. The native attrs are just about to get merged, for example.
18:29 TimToady I see no performance problems there
18:29 pmichaud hmm, R* with the new garbage collector doesn't seem to be significantly faster than 2011.01  :/
18:29 jnthn pmichaud: :/
18:30 masak jnthn: understood.
18:30 masak sorear: oh, sorry. :/ I'll attempt an explanation.
18:30 sorear TimToady: the zipwith is called, but it receives the *old* @fib as an argument
18:30 jnthn masak: In theory you should have no problems at all subclassing grammar and actions and setting up NQP::Compiler to use your new ones.
18:30 sorear @fib isn't rebound until zipwith and , return
18:31 tadzik I wonder what did slow Rakudo down
18:31 masak sorear: the general problem is this: given an incoming stream of ordered records-with-fields, where fields to the right "vary" faster than fields to the left (odometer-style), devise an algorithm that does something within each contigous chunk of field values.
18:31 pmichaud I'll run some tests.
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18:32 masak sorear: in this particular case, the incoming fields are person, shop, and item. for each person, print (in the correct order) that person's shops. print as soon as possible.
18:32 TimToady sorear: okay I see your point
18:32 masak sorear: thing is, everything will lag until the iteration after, when we know that a new person was found.
18:33 masak sorear: I want to avoid having to think about that in the code.
18:33 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 21 commits to nqp by jnthn
18:34 TimToady perl6: my @fib.plan: 0, 1, (@fib Z+ @fib[1..*]); say @fib[10];
18:34 TimToady that's more like
18:34 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:34 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "@fib"␤    expecting "=", ".=", context, ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/Vu1zPIfhS1 line 1, column 4␤»
18:34 p6eval ..rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "my @fib.pl"␤»
18:34 dalek nqp/ctmo: 0a24347 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
18:34 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap.
18:34 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0a24347e46
18:35 masak .plan ?
18:35 TimToady see Containers.pod
18:35 sorear for .lines.map({[.split(',')]}).group(*.[0]) -> $person, @tuples { say ($person => @tuples.map(*.[1]).uniq) } # I would write it like this
18:36 pmichaud alester: is there a way to export the article contents from the rakudo.org drupal instance?  I'm not too concerned with preserving comments
18:37 TimToady perl6: constant @fib = 0, 1, (@fib Z+ @fib[1..*]); say @fib[10];  # what we really want here
18:37 alester pmichaud: haven't looked
18:37 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Constant type declarator not yet implemented at line 22, near "= 0, 1, (@"␤»
18:37 p6eval ..niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
18:37 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: *** Undeclared variable: ("@fib",MkPad (padToList []),[PCompiling {pc_pad = MkMPad {mp_id = 140387682278377, mp_pad = <ref:0x7fae8de4a431>}}])␤    at /tmp/ahoZrnsUjj line 1, column 23-43␤»
18:37 alester Have you googled for a drupal-to-wordpress conversion?
18:37 pmichaud yes
18:37 alester I imagine it's a solved problem.
18:37 xinming joined #perl6
18:37 pmichaud no
18:37 alester No exiting tools?
18:37 alester Wow.
18:38 Axius left #perl6
18:38 pmichaud there are tools for older versions of wordpress and drupal
18:38 pmichaud I don't find anything current
18:38 masak sorear: .group ?
18:38 pmichaud and I find lots of articles that say the tools don't really work
18:38 sorear masak: a hypothetical Perl 6 version of the Haskell groupBy
18:38 sorear masak: sort of like .classify, but lazy and expects sorted input
18:39 TimToady sorear: I believe "constant @fib =" should bind the lazy list at compile time
18:39 pmichaud so, I'll be happy to just get the article text somewhere and re-build the articles manually from that
18:39 pmichaud there aren't that many, iirc
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18:44 masak TimToady: so 'constant @fib =' and 'constant @fib :=' are semantically identical?
18:44 TimToady um
18:45 TimToady std: constant @fib := 42;
18:45 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed constant at /tmp/CojEtiERau line 1:␤------> [32mconstant @fib :[33m⏏[31m= 42;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤        coloncircumfix␤ signature␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 118m␤»
18:45 tadzik arnsholt, ingy, moritz and quietfanatic are people with 2 or more modules in the SHELTER
18:45 arnsholt SHELTER?
18:46 tadzik aye, where the not-updated-to-the-new-spec modules live
18:46 tadzik mentioned in http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/news-from-the-modules-world/
18:47 MayDaniel left #perl6
18:47 arnsholt SQL::Grammar can be deleted
18:48 arnsholt I never got anywhere with that, and it can be safely deleted
18:48 tadzik alright
18:48 masak TimToady: so binding and constants don't mix?
18:48 arnsholt Gimme a sec and I'll update the Viterbi one
18:48 tadzik alright. Familiar with META.info's?
18:49 arnsholt Not yet =)
18:49 leprevost joined #perl6
18:49 tadzik :)
18:50 tadzik You can either read the spec, or just cargocult it from some panda-badged module on modules.perl6.org
18:50 arnsholt Looking at the spec now, and then I'll probably cargo-cult =)
18:52 sorear the way constants are parsed is a tad dubious
18:53 tadzik I have a feeling that only the neutro's META.info has been actually written from scratch. I should've put some funky whitespace in it, and now give a special prize for everyone without that character in their META.infos :)
18:53 risou joined #perl6
18:53 sorear '5 * constant $x = 2' parses as (5 * constant $x) = 2, but the latter isn't valid syntax
18:54 masak it isn't?
18:54 masak std: 5 * constant $c = 2
18:54 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
18:54 masak std: (5 * constant $x) = 2
18:54 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Malformed constant at /tmp/LdYyerpRjm line 1:␤------> [32m(5 * constant $x[33m⏏[31m) = 2[0m␤    expecting any of:␤       desigilname␤    trait␤  twigil␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
18:54 masak huh.
18:55 masak something's odd there, fershure.
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18:58 arnsholt How do Panda and ufo interact?
18:58 tadzik they don't
18:58 arnsholt Right. No deps for my module then
18:58 impious left #perl6
18:59 masak right. ufo was never meant to be a dep of anything.
18:59 masak I seem to gravitate to writing that kind of module, for some reason :)
19:01 arnsholt There. New version pushed to github
19:01 tadzik arnsholt++
19:01 TimToady re pseudo-assignment to declarators, see S03:4802
19:02 TimToady pseudo assignment has nothing to do with normal assignment, even wrt precedence
19:02 tadzik arnsholt: fwiw, source-type is optional, Panda is smart enought to figure that out from the url
19:02 TimToady declarators all look for '=' as part of their "term"
19:03 arnsholt Yeah, I noticed. But the files I cargo-culted from had it, so y'know... =)
19:03 tadzik :)
19:03 tadzik I'know :)
19:03 TimToady (that is, declarators that take initializers, not things like 'sub')
19:04 arnsholt So now all that's missing is that I remove the module from SHELTER and update META.list in perl6/ecosystem?
19:05 dalek ecosystem: 1ba36bf | tadzik++ | / (5 files):
19:05 dalek ecosystem: Algorithm::Viterbi does not live in a SHELTER anymore. Clean the SHELTER from some (re)moved modules
19:05 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/1ba36bfcfe
19:05 arnsholt Or that. Cheers!
19:06 newbee hi again :) I was creating the TimeOfDay  class:      use v6; class TimeOfDay {  has $.hour;  has $.minute;  has $.seconds; }
19:06 pmichaud alester: if you can put rakudo.org up long enough for me to do a webscrape of its contents, that would be okay
19:07 alester pmichaud: Oh, shoot, I'm sorry, forgot about you.  Real Job got in the way.
19:07 alester let me see what I can do re: export
19:07 pmichaud np, just letting you know options
19:07 pmichaud no real hurry
19:07 newbee now, i know i can put constraints to the data using where, for example, 0 >= $hour <= 23... but i dont wan't the program to fail if i assing a 61 to $.hour
19:07 newbee how can i make "accesors" for those data members?
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19:08 tadzik newbee: you already did
19:08 rhebus_ joined #perl6
19:08 tadzik $.foo is an attribute foo, with a public accessor
19:08 tadzik rakudo: class Foo { has $.bar = 5 }; say Foo.new.bar
19:08 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«5␤»
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19:08 rhebus_ is now known as rhebus
19:08 sorear pmichaud: what's up with rakudo.org?
19:09 pmichaud sorear: apparently it's down, so I'm moving it to a wordpress-based site on my server
19:09 alester "What's up" is a rare condition. :-)
19:09 tadzik TiMBuS! TiMBuS! Your META.info is broken!
19:09 alester is it down NOW?
19:09 alester dammit
19:10 pmichaud it was down earlier when I tried it
19:10 sorear Why does it keep going down?
19:10 alester sorear: You are far too late to this party. :-)
19:10 alester If I knew, I'd fix it.
19:10 sorear alester: I know, hence the questions :)
19:11 sorear :/
19:11 alester oh man, I might be able to kill my mysql instance, too.
19:11 alester pmichaud: want a mysqldump?
19:11 alester I'll paste it into the channel.
19:12 sorear I hope you mean a link
19:12 alester sorear: I kid.
19:12 alester Wuss.
19:12 alester Can't handle thousands of lines of SQL INSERTs?
19:12 newbee so, i did accesors just by declaring the variable... but, how can i send a warning if i pass 61 to $.hour ??
19:13 pmichaud alester:  a mysqldump would work okay, yes
19:13 tadzik newbee: you can supply your own BUILD submethod which will validate the attributes
19:14 alester pmichaud: OK, can't look right this second.
19:14 alester but I will
19:14 tadzik rakudo: class Mytime { has $.hour; submethod BUILD { callsame; die "how many? Are you nuts?" unless 0 < $.hour < 24; } }; Mytime.new(hour => 77)
19:14 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«how many? Are you nuts?␤  in 'Mytime::BUILD' at line 22:/tmp/2JjrX55tCA␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/2JjrX55tCA␤»
19:14 tadzik rakudo: class Mytime { has $.hour; submethod BUILD { callsame; die "how many? Are you nuts?" unless 0 < $.hour < 24; } }; Mytime.new(hour => 17)
19:14 p6eval rakudo 8533c3:  ( no output )
19:15 pmichaud alester: great, no rush
19:15 alester pmichaud: I just saw them on April 12th.
19:15 tadzik newbee: keep in mind that is only during the object creation
19:16 tadzik github++ # "fork and edit this file"
19:16 alester github++ # Just in general.
19:18 masak github++ # happily paying customer
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19:22 newbee but what happens if i change $.hour after the creation? I understand that BUILD runs only once...
19:23 leprevost left #perl6
19:23 tadzik newbee: if you don't add "is rw" to "has" you can't change it
19:23 tadzik and Time sounds like something I'd prefer immutable
19:23 tadzik I believe they're immutable in Perl 6 to
19:23 risou left #perl6
19:24 masak DateTime is mutable; Date is immutable.
19:24 yegor_ joined #perl6
19:24 masak but yes, I agree with tadzik that Time sounds like it could well be immutable.
19:25 yegor left #perl6
19:26 pmichaud ...I thought the new garbage collector was to give a significant speed improvement, but for some reason I'm not seeing it here.
19:27 pmichaud at least, I'm not seeing it in the spectests.
19:27 newbee ok, lets put this example then: class Soldier { has $.health is rw } and i want to perform some action if health goes beyond 100, all this without a special method. Just by saying $Asoldier.health = 120;
19:28 tadzik newbee: that's either hard or impossible in the current state of Rakudo
19:28 pmichaud in Rakudo?  what about in Perl 6 in general?
19:28 colomon pmichaud: did you get any speed improvement with that Parrot flag you were trying to set earlier today?
19:29 pmichaud colomon: by changing the flag I eliminated the 40% penalty I was seeing
19:29 colomon pmichaud: that's something, anyway!
19:29 pmichaud which means rakudo is only as fast as the january release, not faster
19:29 colomon pmichaud: are we going to make setting the flag that way the default for Rakudo?
19:30 pmichaud colomon: it's been the default already
19:30 pmichaud it was the default in the march release
19:30 pmichaud and in the april release
19:30 pmichaud --gc=gms
19:30 sorear niecza: class Soldier { has $!health; method health() { _newtiedscalar(Any, Any, { $!health }, { die "Oops too big" if $_ > 100; $!health = $_ }); } }; my Soldier $Asoldier .= new; $Asolder.health = 5; say $Asoldier.health; $Asoldier.health = 120
19:30 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Variable $Asolder is not predeclared at /tmp/haIrhJxpoe line 1:␤------> [32m}; my Soldier $Asoldier .= new; $Asolder[33m⏏[31m.health = 5; say $Asoldier.health; $Asol[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at
19:30 p6eval ../home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.se…
19:30 sorear niecza: class Soldier { has $!health; method health() { _newtiedscalar(Any, Any, { $!health }, { die "Oops too big" if $_ > 100; $!health = $_ }); } }; my Soldier $Asoldier .= new; $Asoldier.health = 5; say $Asoldier.health; $Asoldier.health = 120
19:30 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«5␤Unhandled exception: Oops too big␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 413 (CORE die @ 2)␤  at /tmp/D2WE45_RKj line 1 (MAIN C6_ANON @ 2)␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at /tmp/D2WE45_RKj line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 9)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting
19:30 p6eval ..line 1311 (C…
19:30 sorear \o/
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19:32 pmichaud which means that either (a) the GC didn't provide nearly as much improvement as claimed, or (b) something has happened to Rakudo to cause it to become much slower than it was in January (and thus lose any gains provided by the GC)
19:32 pmichaud or (c) other
19:33 newbee hehe, great, thanks sorear :) now, ¿what is _newtiedscalar? looks like a hack, ¿it is?
19:34 sorear _newtiedscalar is how niecza makes special lvalues
19:34 pmichaud I think the standard Perl 6 mechanism would be to use WHENCE
19:34 sorear no good decision has been made on how to do that
19:35 newbee oh well... in the meantime niecza's method is what i will use :)
19:35 sorear pmichaud: WHENCE only lets you run code the first time a variable is bound or assigned to
19:35 pmichaud method health() is rw { $!health WHENCE { die "Oops too big" if $_ > 100 } }
19:35 pmichaud or something like that
19:35 pmichaud oh yes, only for vivification
19:35 pmichaud hmm
19:36 sorear there's something in the spec about Proxy.new:, but I find that interface vaguely disturbing
19:36 pmichaud that pre-dates WHENCE
19:36 pmichaud it's probably fossil
19:36 pmichaud afk, kid pickup
19:40 alester Today I learned that pmichaud has a kid.
19:42 sbp he didn't say he has one
19:42 sbp could be picking anybody's kid up!
19:42 masak newbee: subset Health of Real where { 0 <= $_ < 100 }; class Soldier { has Health $.health is rw }
19:44 colomon sbp: he's also quite knowledgable about Thomas the Tank Engine.  ;)
19:44 sbp proof at last
19:44 tadzik masak: that's nice
19:44 TimToady std: subset Health of Real where 0..^100
19:44 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
19:44 tadzik also, that's Perl6-y;
19:44 masak TimToady++
19:45 masak tadzik: yes; problem is it dies if you try to make the assignment.
19:45 masak maybe you just wanted a warning?
19:46 newbee i do want a warning.. :)
19:47 masak there you go :)
19:47 TimToady subset Health of Real preferring 0..^100  :)
19:47 masak TimToady: now you're just making stuff up :P
19:48 sorear he's TimToady.  he can do that.
19:48 masak rakudo: subset Health of Real where 0 ..^ 100; my Health $h = 47; say $h; $h = -20; say 'alive'
19:48 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤  in 'ACCEPTS' at line 1␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/NXqWXvAzfS␤»
19:49 masak huh?
19:49 * masak submits rakudobug
19:49 sbp subset Health of Real where Maybe 0..^100
19:49 moritz tadzik: huh? which of my modules miss a meta info thingy file?
19:50 masak neither 'preferring' or 'Maybe' have anything to do with giving a warning instead of an error.
19:50 colomon does it make sense to have a subset of a role?
19:50 colomon rakudo: subset Health of Int where 0 ..^ 100; my Health $h = 47; say $h; $h = -20; say 'alive'
19:50 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«47␤Type check failed for assignment␤    Container type: Int␤               Got: Int␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/SaP_Ta4xRj␤»
19:50 TimToady std: subset Health of Real where (0..^100) S| warn("Health out of range")
19:50 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
19:51 masak colomon: sure, since you can instantiate (classes snapshotted from) roles.
19:51 masak TimToady: ooh.
19:51 tadzik moritz: CGI::Application, Nonogram and Module::Starter
19:51 sbp Perl6: Our operators are from Sendak
19:51 masak so, S| is basically || but without the need to put things in a block? :P
19:52 colomon TimToady: warn returns something which is True?
19:52 TimToady if it succeeds
19:52 masak what kind of object does S| create? a Junction-but-serial?
19:52 TimToady supposedly
19:52 TimToady S is vaguely specced to mean several things
19:52 * masak glares irritatedly at S
19:53 colomon Yes, as I recall, S made me cross last time I looked at the spec for it.  :)
19:53 masak to me, S is the "one metaop too many" metaop.
19:54 TimToady masak: it also differs from || in not making you compare explicitly with the value, since it's still a junction
19:54 moritz tadzik: I think Module::Starter can be deleted
19:55 masak TimToady: the &warn call is part of the 'where' clause. surely its return value will be matched against the subtyped variable?
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19:56 TimToady not if it's a Boolean...
19:56 colomon masak: it's not that S is "one metaop too many"... it's that it's "one metaop, four different meanings, more or less magically determined".
19:56 pmichaud rakudo 2011.01 spectest:  29m45s
19:56 masak TimToady: oh!
19:57 sbp S is for polySemy
19:57 pmichaud rakudo 2011.03 spectest:  30m15s
19:57 * colomon randomly picked "four", been too long since he looked at the spec for S
19:57 pmichaud rakudo 2011.04 spectest:  28m59s
19:57 pmichaud I see no significant speedup here.  :-(
19:57 TimToady that's okay, since Unicode has 98 things that match /« S »/
19:57 jnthn pmichaud: No, not much... :(
19:58 TimToady .u ∾
19:58 phenny U+223E INVERTED LAZY S (∾)
19:59 jnthn pmichaud: I shoved nqp through the Visual Studio profiler recently.
19:59 jnthn pmichaud: 6model guts were...a long way down the profiling list...
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19:59 jnthn pmichaud: And that's before we're even really using it optimally...
20:00 alester Phooey, the durpal dump is >1.5G
20:00 alester but I don't know hy
20:00 moritz lots of spam?
20:00 alester i'm sure
20:00 alester i don't know which tables to dump.
20:01 * masak .oO( this would all have been easier with event sourcing... )
20:01 Moukeddar left #perl6
20:01 tadzik moritz: I'm on it
20:02 tadzik moritz: now I think about writing one anyway :)
20:03 dalek ecosystem: f981b4e | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
20:03 dalek ecosystem: Remove Module::Starter
20:03 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/f981b4ea52
20:04 sorear S is the "I have no idea how it's expected to work" metaop
20:04 pmichaud alester: I've scraped the site
20:04 pmichaud I'll grab what I need from the html
20:05 pmichaud I'm guessing the drupal dump is 1.5G owing to the spam comments
20:05 alester I have raw stuff for you, pmichaud
20:05 alester only two tables you need
20:06 alester once I figure how to get mysqldump to dump only certain tables.
20:06 alester but if you're happy w/the scraping, that's fine, too, and I'll stop
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20:06 pmichaud let me try with the scrapes first... if I need the dumps I'll let you know :)
20:07 moritz tadzik: I've added META.info to CGI::Application and Nonogram
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20:09 moritz tadzik: which ecosystem repo is the "authoritative" one right now? yours or the one in perl6?
20:10 tadzik moritz: perl6. I should remove mine, doing that now
20:10 tadzik done
20:13 moritz tadzik: do we still need projects.list for anything?
20:13 tadzik moritz: for backwards compatibility and historical reasons I think
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20:14 pmichaud channel poll:  is it important to re-post the various Rakudo compiler announcements to rakudoperl.org ?
20:14 pmurias sorear: what's wrong with Proxy?
20:14 moritz pmurias: no, but I'd love to preserve the R* release
20:15 pmurias moritz: meant pmichaud?
20:15 moritz yes, sorry
20:15 moritz pmichaud: see above :-)
20:15 pmichaud yes, I'm planning to keep the R* release announcements
20:15 pmichaud here's a preview:  http://rakudoperl.org/?p=7&amp;preview=true
20:15 tadzik pmichaud: notfound
20:15 moritz Apologies, but the page you requested could not be found. Perhaps searching will help.
20:15 masak pmichaud: I think it's important to show something each month. I remember when I wasn't too involved with Rakudo. the release announcements served as a reminder that the project still existed and was alive.
20:15 masak pmichaud: posting things is cheap.
20:16 pmichaud masak: I mean the historical postings
20:16 masak oh!
20:16 pmichaud masak:  we're moving rakudo.org to a wordpress site
20:16 pmichaud rakudoperl.org
20:16 masak ah. sorry. :) I'm not keeping up :P
20:16 pmichaud and I'm wondering how much content from the old rakudo.org site I need to keep
20:16 dalek ecosystem: 72f62a5 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
20:16 dalek ecosystem: remove two modules from SHELTER, and add META.info links instead
20:16 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/72f62a5911
20:16 pmichaud thus:  do I need to transfer all of the monthly release announcements for rakudo compiler
20:17 pmichaud preview post might only be available if you're logged in/registered
20:17 moritz no
20:17 pmichaud I'll go ahead and publish it
20:17 pmurias sorear: the interface to Proxy seems perfect to me
20:17 pmichaud http://rakudoperl.org/2010/06/19/rakudo-star-a-usable-perl-6-to-be-released-by-july-29/
20:17 moritz (and if yes, it would probably be less work to just take the announcements from git)
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20:18 pmichaud it seems to be really easy to copy-n-paste from the drupal html into wordpress
20:25 pmurias sorear: with a possible BIND for bvalues
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20:42 tadzik heh, I need Test::Simple for every language I use. Did anyone ever wrote Test::Simple for Java? :)
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20:50 masak yeah. but I never published it.
20:50 masak it was before I embraced JUnit a bit more.
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20:55 tadzik yeah, I guess I should look into this jUnit
20:55 tadzik I was trying to limit the "new things to learn" to just java
20:55 * tadzik writing Battleship game for the university project
20:56 arnsholt tadzik: Yeah, I have really come to like TAP
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21:01 masak TAP, like POD, should really be more widespread than just Perl.
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21:17 pmichaud jnthn: how many of your articles from rakudo.org would you want to have migrated to rakudoperl.org?  ("all" is an acceptable answer)
21:17 pmichaud (other opinions welcome also)
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21:18 pmurias masak: what does jUnit use instead of TAP?
21:19 jnthn pmichaud: How many are there?
21:19 jnthn pmichaud: And what were they about?
21:20 jnthn pmichaud: I don't ever remember writing anything exclusively for rakudo.org...
21:20 pmurias pmichaud: why is there a migration from rakudo.org to rakudoperl.org
21:20 jnthn Oh, maybe the odd thing...
21:20 pmichaud I'm not sure they were "exclusive"
21:20 jnthn Yeah
21:21 jnthn I suspect they were cross-posts.
21:21 pmichaud http://rakudo.org/node/55
21:21 pmichaud 21:19 <jnthn> pmichaud: And what were they about?
21:21 pmichaud oops
21:21 alester pmichaud: why the domain name change?
21:21 pmichaud http://rakudo.org/node/52
21:21 pmichaud http://rakudo.org/node/51
21:21 pmichaud etc
21:21 jnthn Oh, I'm sure they were cross-posted
21:22 pmichaud alester:  I'm only using "rakudoperl.org" to distinguish new versus old
21:22 jnthn I did them on use.perl.org
21:22 pmichaud alester:  when things are moved across it'll just be "rakudo.org" again
21:22 alester pmichaud: ok.
21:22 jnthn So in terms of "not losing them for good" they won't be.
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21:22 jnthn So I've no issue with them not being migrated.
21:22 alester My A-record-modifying fingers stand at the ready.
21:22 mj41 left #perl6
21:22 alester jnthn: Or rather, is there any reason NOT to migrate them?
21:23 pmichaud well, I don't know how much I trust use.perl.org to stay around, either :)
21:23 pmichaud I've been thinking of migrating my use.perl.org posts to my blog
21:23 hercynium left #perl6
21:24 jnthn alester: No, there's no reason not to either.
21:24 jnthn alester: I don't feel strongly either way. :)
21:25 alester Is there a way you could be even more ambivalent?
21:25 alester More extreme in your ambivalence?
21:25 alester TRUE NEUTRAL, BABY.
21:26 alester pmichaud: HURRY I YEARN TO KILL THE DRUPAL.
21:27 alester "He took his Drupal sword in hand...."
21:30 frettled alester++
21:31 frettled Is WordPress on rakudoperl.org updated to 3.1.2 yet?
21:31 alester I'm sure Drupal is really awesome and powerful and all, but damn, I can't maintain the thing.
21:32 frettled WP 3.x is easy to upgrade, at least.
21:32 frettled But there has been a spate of vulnerability fixes recently, more than Drupal, and a whole bunch of automated attacks.
21:33 PerlJam frettled: Drupal is easy to upgrade too ... it's just dealing with the fall-out that's the problem.  :-)
21:33 pmichaud frettled: I'm at 3.1.0 atm.  I can upgrade to 3.1.2
21:33 pmichaud one moment
21:34 pmichaud Done.
21:35 frettled left #perl6
21:35 frettled joined #perl6
21:35 frettled Sigh, irssi froze.  :
21:36 frettled hugme: hug me
21:36 * hugme hugs frettled
21:36 frettled (:
21:36 masak hugme: hug hugme
21:36 * hugme hugs hugme
21:36 frettled masak: hug masak
21:36 * masak hugs masak
21:36 frettled \o/
21:37 masak I'm gonna hug myself into bed now.
21:37 masak 'night, #perl6.
21:37 TimToady o/
21:37 frettled Splendid idea, masak++
21:37 masak left #perl6
21:39 frettled TimToady: golfing?  :)
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21:43 tadzik arnsholt! arnsholt!
21:43 tadzik arnsholt: you missed a comma in your META.info
21:44 tadzik I should make the ecosystem more typoproof
21:44 rhebus joined #perl6
21:52 arnsholt OHNOES!
21:53 arnsholt There. Fixed
21:53 tadzik thx
21:53 ymasory left #perl6
21:53 frettled If only other software developers could be half as quick.
21:55 arnsholt I can either write my thesis, which is due on monday, or procrastinate. Not a difficult choice ;)
21:57 dalek ecosystem: e2cebef | tadzik++ | META.list:
21:57 dalek ecosystem: Remove links to nonexisting META.infos
21:57 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/e2cebef04c
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: 6435cc3 | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: Simply multi method construction and dispatcher testing.
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6435cc3adb
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: 245026d | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: Shuffle method-adding code into the SC builder.
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/245026dac9
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: fef0b59 | jonathan++ | src/HLL/SerializationContextBuilder.pm:
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: First steps at getting method definitions to go through the compile time meta-model. Some regressions.
22:00 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/fef0b59bbc
22:03 dalek star: 0601403 | pmichaud++ | skel/docs/announce/2011.04:
22:03 dalek star: More announcement updates.
22:03 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/0601403bf6
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22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: 6ca730b | jonathan++ | src/ (3 files):
22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: Partial fix for multi-method dispatch regression.
22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6ca730be75
22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: 5b9b016 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: Get adding of regex declarations done through the compile time meta-object. Well, mostly...there's a horrible issue with the way prefixes are stored to deal with first...
22:53 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5b9b01685a
22:53 donri left #perl6
22:54 jnthn pmichaud: ping
22:55 stkowski left #perl6
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23:02 dukeleto if anybody has any lingering commits to rakudo.git, please push. I am testing a github post-receive hook that runs and times the test suite
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23:39 jnthn sleep &
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