Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-04-29

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:35 sorear good * #perl6
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00:38 sorear moritz: jnthn: Should I read the niecza := thing in more detail?
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01:17 mary1724 hola
01:18 sorear Hola, mary1724
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01:18 sorear mary1724: are you here for Perl 6 or did chatmosphere send you here?
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02:34 ingy what's the best place to build a modern, but somewhat stable, rakudo from?
02:34 colomon ingy: well, Rakudo Star's latest release was yesterday.
02:35 colomon so you could use that or github, they're both about equal at the moment, I'd guess.
02:35 ingy :)
02:35 ingy is there a star branch of the rakudo repo
02:36 ingy or should I use the rakudo-star repo
02:37 ingy maybe the 2011.04 tag
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02:37 colomon rakudo's 2011.04 would be last week's release.
02:37 colomon which is probably pretty much the same, but if you want the latest and greatest....  :)
02:38 ingy I just want to fix my out of date modules that tadzik pointed out.
02:38 colomon seriously, Rakudo is pretty stable at the moment; the major development at the moment is off in another repo.
02:38 ingy cool
02:39 ingy what's the tag of the latest star?
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02:41 colomon https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo
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02:41 colomon (don't know the tag)
02:42 colomon https://github.com/downloads/rakud​o/star/rakudo-star-2011.04.tar.gz
02:42 colomon is the latest
02:42 ingy that's probably https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/2011.04
02:42 ingy :)
02:43 colomon sounds likely.  :)
02:43 colomon you coming to YAPC::NA?
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02:46 sorear ingy: star isn't part of / a version of rakudoe
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02:51 tylercurtis Is there some way to define a sub such that the value of a :$foo parameter is the result of calling a sub/method on the value passed in as the named argument foo?
02:51 tylercurtis It seems like I recall there being one.
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02:54 tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as Str) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f 5;
02:54 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
02:55 tylercurtis rakudo: sub bar($s) { $s.Num; }  sub f($foo as &bar) { say $foo.what; }; f 5;
02:55 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub bar($s"␤»
02:55 cxreg2 is now known as cxreg
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02:55 tylercurtis rakudo: sub bar($s) { $s.Num; }  sub f($foo as { .&bar }) { say $foo.what; }; f 5;
02:55 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub bar($s"␤»
02:56 PerlJam tylercurtis: I'm pretty sure what you want doesn't yet exist even if it is specced (but that doesn't ring any bells for me either)
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02:59 tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as abs) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
02:59 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
02:59 tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as Num) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
02:59 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
02:59 tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as ::abs) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
02:59 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('perl')␤  in 'f' at line 22:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤  in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤»
03:00 tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as "abs") { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
03:00 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
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03:38 imamelia Hi, guys.
03:40 tylercurtis Hi, imamelia.
03:40 imamelia Dang it, I always forget to change my nick on here...well, I might as well just go by imamelia to make things simpler.
03:40 imamelia (Or get a different IRC client.)
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03:42 imamelia There was something that I thought should be included in Perl 6 instead of having to be installed separately, but I've since forgotten what it was...
03:42 imamelia That wasn't why I came here anyway, though.
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03:48 sorear What's wrong with imamelia?
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04:11 ingy rakudo full build in under 10 minutes on my (not-so-turbo-charged) Thinkpad \o/
04:11 starcoder is now known as mooncoder
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04:13 imamelia By the way, are you guys as prejudiced against Windows users as the regulars on #perl are?...
04:13 imamelia (Not accusing anyone, just asking.)
04:13 ingy imamelia: I was just looking at the rakudo Makefile
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04:13 ingy it seems to have at least a nod to windows
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04:14 PerlJam jnthn (at least) uses Windows
04:15 ingy $(CP)     $(PERL6_EXE)        $(DESTDIR)$(PARROT_BIN_DIR)
04:15 ingy PERL6_EXE     = perl6$(EXE)
04:15 ingy etc
04:15 PerlJam imamelia: besides, I don't think #perl is prejudiced against windows users so much as against windows ineptitude :)
04:16 mooncoder is now known as starcoder
04:16 ingy imamelia: Alias is on #perl, and he's almost the entire perl/win32 community ;)
04:17 ingy god bless the man
04:17 imamelia Installing extra stuff (like GTK) on Windows...holy crap.  Quantum physics seems like it would be easier.
04:18 imamelia (Not that I've tried to install the same packages on Linux or anything.)
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04:19 imamelia I'm thinking of messing with Fedora after finals week is over.
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04:25 sorear imamelia: What's wrong with "imamelia"?
04:26 imamelia On this server, I usually go by TheMartianGeek.
04:26 imamelia The two nicknames stem from two completely different sources, and I tend to use them in different contexts.
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04:33 tadzik PerlJam: about the perlscript, you could also check the json file for "badge_panda" : "1"
04:34 tadzik oh no, these results are better
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06:57 mberends o/ from Slovenia!
06:57 phenny mberends: 20 Apr 17:10Z <isBEKaml> tell mberends Yes, most production java deployments run on JDK 5 and so that's not an issue. I set the version to 1.5 and ran a build but didn't get any warnings. Since you say you do, "Fix them!" :P
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07:19 birdwindupbird .йгше
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07:45 vinni Hello
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08:37 snarkyboojum mberends: čao, kako si? :D
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08:38 mberends snarkyboojum: dobro, hvala!
08:38 mberends sada jesam u Ljubljani # did I say that right?
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08:40 snarkyboojum mberends: ah, Ljubljana is where my girlfriend was born :)
08:40 mberends snarkyboojum: it's where my son now goes to school :)
08:41 snarkyboojum mberends: btw, I don't speak much, I'm an aussie through and through :P
08:41 snarkyboojum beautiful!
08:41 mberends heh
08:42 TiMBuS how do you get a method reference..
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08:42 TiMBuS from an object
08:43 TiMBuS my $m = $class.method; #dont call method()
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08:59 moritz my $m = $class.^can('method')
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10:27 jnthn oh hai o/
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10:32 moritz \o
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10:34 mberends oh hai jnthn!
10:36 jnthn mberends! \o/
10:36 jnthn mberends: In Slovenia? :)
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10:36 mberends jnthn: aye
10:37 jnthn mberends: Nice! :)
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10:38 jnthn nqp: say("working?")
10:38 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«sh: ./nqp: not found␤»
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10:41 moritz argl
10:41 herald2 rakudo: 2*2
10:41 p6eval rakudo 8533c3:  ( no output )
10:41 herald2 rakudo: print 2*2
10:41 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«4»
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10:43 mberends jnthn: you'd love it here, overcast, drizzle
10:44 moritz nqp: say(3*5)
10:44 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«15␤»
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10:45 jnthn mberends: I...don't like drizzle much :P
10:46 jnthn If it's going to precipitate, I'd prefer it be snow. :)
10:46 jnthn moritz: yay, thanks for fixing!
10:46 jnthn nqp: class Foo is Bar { }
10:46 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find parent class 'Bar' at line 1, near ""␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20730 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5630)␤»
10:47 moritz rakudo: class Foo is Bar { }
10:47 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any
10:47 p6eval ..:rw($rw)…
10:47 jnthn nqp: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }
10:47 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Attribute '$!lawl' not declared at line 1, near ") } }"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20730 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5630)␤»
10:47 moritz rakudo: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }
10:47 p6eval rakudo 8533c3:  ( no output )
10:47 moritz rakudo: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }; Foo.new.wtf
10:48 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«No such attribute '$!lawl'␤  in 'Foo::wtf' at line 22:/tmp/ppZ346GuNZ␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ppZ346GuNZ␤»
10:48 jnthn nqp knows at compile time :)
10:48 moritz \o/ good error messages at compile time in nqp
10:48 jnthn moritz: It actually has the meta-objects to hand during the compile.
10:48 jnthn So this even works with custom meta-classes.
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10:50 moritz how is the verification done? is there "give me a slot associate with attribute $!foo" method on the meta object?
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10:50 jnthn moritz: At the moment it calls .^attributes(:local) and looks through them, but I'm considering having a method on the meta-object like "is_valid_attribute" or something
10:51 moritz +1
10:51 jnthn So that if you write something that doesn't require pre-declaration of attributes it'll just be able to say "yes, that's fine" always :)
10:51 moritz also I wonder if .^attributes and .^methods should really return hashes, not lists
10:52 jnthn Trouble is what the keys/values would be
10:52 jnthn You may have multiple methods with the same name.
10:52 jnthn Or attributes with the same name.
10:52 jnthn From different places in the inheritance hierarchy.
10:53 moritz hm, right
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11:22 Layla_91 hey all.. just passing by.. -my coffee break :D -
11:22 jnthn o/ Layla_91
11:22 Layla_91 jnthn: prevet! :D
11:22 mberends perl -Ocoffee
11:23 jnthn Layla_91: kak dela? :)
11:23 Layla_91 jnthn: horosho! :D heeey you know russian :D
11:23 jnthn .oO( oh my, two weeks until I'm in Russia and actually have to attempt to speak it! )
11:23 jnthn Layla_91: I'm bad. :)
11:23 Layla_91 jnthn: want a quick tutorial? it is free :P
11:23 jnthn \o/
11:24 Layla_91 jnthn: haha! ;D
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11:25 * jnthn submitted 3 talks for YAPC::Russia and they call got accepted
11:25 jnthn So now I have to give 'em!
11:25 Layla_91 jnthn: it is actually easy language.. u just need to love and understand the culture behind it and it will be all clear.. we are romantic and spiritual people :)
11:25 jnthn *all
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11:26 jnthn Layla_91: I'm not sure I'd call it easy... :) But it is beautiful. :)
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11:27 Layla_91 jnthn: I am trying to learn french ^_^ that is hard :S
11:27 Layla_91 jnthn: but it is so sweet language :D
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11:27 jnthn Ой ля ля!
11:28 Layla_91 hahaha! :D
11:29 Layla_91 it seems that to learn a language the best solution is to move to a country that speaks it...
11:29 jnthn Layla_91: Certainly.
11:29 Layla_91 so I need to visit 10 countries in the near future and stay 10 years in each :P
11:30 moritz that's quite possible, if you can get the countries to overlap :-)
11:30 jnthn Just live in disputed territories...
11:30 jnthn :)
11:31 Layla_91 mmmm... good theory...
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11:31 * jnthn is really crappy at Swedish, but has sucked up loads of words just by living here for a year
11:31 Layla_91 jnthn: is it hard?
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11:32 Layla_91 jnthn: harder than russian?
11:32 moritz I don't think Swedish is hard if you know other Germanic languages
11:32 jnthn Layla_91: It's easier language for me to learn, since much more overlap with English.
11:32 moritz I for one know German and English, and learning Norwegian (which is quite close to Swedish) doesn't feel very hard
11:33 moritz (which doesn't imply I'm actually good at it... )
11:33 jnthn Layla_91: It's mostly a problem of finding time and motivation to study it.
11:33 Layla_91 jnthn: btw i never asked about your original language (or forgot what is it! :s)
11:33 Layla_91 I guess moritz is german..
11:34 moritz Layla_91: correct
11:34 jnthn Layla_91: English. :)
11:34 jnthn Layla_91: I'm originally from England. :)
11:34 Layla_91 jnthn: yaaaaaaaaaaaay! lsn you must teach me to speak your accent! :D
11:35 Layla_91 moritz: I kinda guessed based on your chat personality (The serious boy :P :D)
11:35 jnthn Layla_91: My local dialect, or the one I use for the rest of the world? :)
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11:36 Layla_91 jnthn: mmm... dunno :S I do not know the difference :$
11:37 * moritz doesn't think this was a compliment :-)
11:37 jnthn Layla_91: When I was living in Slovakia my teacher could understand my English just fine. Then a friend from my hometown came to visit me. When I talked to him I spoke Yorkshire dialect (not on purpose even), and she couldn't understand anything we said to each other!
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11:38 Layla_91 jnthn: ooooh! :S
11:38 jnthn Layla_91: Anyway, just find some video of me speaking at a conference to see what my "normal" accent sounds like :)
11:38 Layla_91 jnthn: mmm.. will check on youtube :D
11:39 jnthn Layla_91: not sure there are any there... http://video.osdc.tw/ has a couple
11:39 Layla_91 jnthn: have u used tcl before?! they need to write a script for a cisco device... I never tried it before...
11:39 Layla_91 jnthn: going to the link ;)
11:40 jnthn Layla_91: No, never used it, though always wanted to write a testing framework for it.
11:40 jnthn I'd call it test-tcl.
11:40 mberends *groan*
11:40 Layla_91 moritz: you are a great and loyal friend I think :) your wife must be happy with you.. here you go.. a complement :P :D
11:40 jnthn mberends: Sorry. Fixing char encoding bugs in legacy ASP code brings out the worst in me. :P
11:41 mberends jnthn: just don't balls it up! ;)
11:41 moritz Layla_91: you're too kind
11:42 tadzik good noon
11:42 jnthn oh my...the code uses VBScript regexes...which I'm pretty sure don't actually handle unicode
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11:43 mberends hello tadzik
11:43 Layla_91 hola tadzik :)
11:47 Layla_91 jnthn: mmm.. guess what?! it is a great way to learn both english and perl6! am downloading your vids! :D
11:48 jnthn Layla_91: \o/
11:48 jnthn Enjoy :)
11:49 Layla_91 ok back to work :\ see ya! :D
11:49 jnthn Hope I don't say anything too embarassing on them...I didn't actually watch them much. :)
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11:49 jnthn Layla_91: Hey, at least your work isn't fixing VBScript.... :P
11:49 jnthn Layla_91: byebye :)
11:50 dalek ecosystem: 5df4b62 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
11:50 dalek ecosystem: Remove benchmark from the SHELTER
11:50 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/5df4b625ea
11:50 Layla_91 jnthn: my work today is learning tcl :P
11:50 tadzik vbscript, heh
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11:50 Layla_91 and writing a small script for cisco device..
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11:51 jnthn tadzik: I used to think that I'd understand this codebase better when I got to the point where I could read the Swedish comments.
11:51 jnthn Now I kinda can read them, I realize they're like "set x to zero" :/
11:51 tadzik our Polish Open and Free Software foundation has recently ordered a few educational applications. The responsible person wrote them in Visual Basic, and sent them the source code in .doc format. Because .rtf was too big with the images
11:53 mberends that's mind boggling :/
11:54 tadzik we had a good laugh about it on the LUG meeting.
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13:54 jnthn party &
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17:03 TimToady perl6: say v5.9 ~~ v5.8+;
17:03 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/wcftZoB_Mt line 1:␤------> [32msay v5.9[33m⏏[31m ~~ v5.8+;[0m␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/wcftZoB_Mt line 1:␤------> [32msay v5.9 ~~
17:03 p6eval ..v5.8+[33m⏏[31m;[0m␤␤Unha…
17:03 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "9"␤    expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript␤    at /tmp/zta29Tv0I9 line 1, column 8␤»
17:03 p6eval ..rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say v5.9 ~"␤»
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17:07 TimToady std: constant v0 = 42; say v0+3;
17:07 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/fG81la5t5x line 1:␤------> [32mconstant v0 = 42; say v0+[33m⏏[31m3;[0m␤    expecting any of:␤ POST␤   bracketed infix␤        infix or meta-infix␤    postfix␤        postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤   statement modifier
17:07 p6eval ..loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED…
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17:07 TimToady std: constant v0 = 42; say v0 + 3;
17:07 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
17:08 TimToady niecza: constant v0 = 42; say v0 + 3;
17:08 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/ZIYWPo_umS line 1:␤------> [32mconstant v0 = 42; say v0[33m⏏[31m + 3;[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @
17:08 p6eval ..2)␤  at /home…
17:08 TimToady hmm
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17:14 TimToady some grammar rules are insufficiently setting-y, such that they cannot be overridden by user-defined identifiers
17:15 * TimToady has been thinking about this for some time, and should probably continue to think about it...
17:16 TimToady std: constant abs = 42; say abs
17:16 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/xC6s9IwyA0 line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mconstant abs = 42; say abs[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
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17:26 PerlJam "prefix requires an argument"?   That's an odd error :)
17:27 moritz std: abs
17:27 p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/gnwR1t5Wly line 1 (EOF):␤------> [32mabs[33m⏏[31m<EOL>[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
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17:30 PerlJam or maybe Perl should have an "aggressive warning" mode that tells you when you're trying to do something that will end badly.
17:30 PerlJam (at least until TimToady figures how how to make them sufficiently setting-y)
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17:50 foodoo Does anyone here know what happend to rakudo.org?
17:51 sbp 10:20  <pmichaud> ...why is rakudo.org down?
17:51 sbp 10:20  * moritz has no idea, but it has happened a few times recently
17:51 sbp 10:20  <pmichaud> That's... not good.
17:51 sbp 10:20  <moritz> agreed.
17:51 sbp they're making a new one apparently
17:51 moritz foodoo: it's being replaced with a new website due to reliability issues
17:51 colomon foodoo: for the moment, try rakudoperl.org
17:51 sbp pmichaud was asking people who wanted to register to author/admin it to register somewhere
17:51 foodoo thanks
17:51 colomon that's the new one (and rakudo.org will be pointing there ASAP)
17:51 moritz foodoo: rakudoperl.org is a backup, rakudo.org will sooner or later point to the new location
17:51 sbp further:
17:52 sbp 10:20  <pmichaud> rakudoperl.org is a domain I already own; we'll hopefully get rakudo.org to forward to rakudoperl.org or something like that
17:52 sbp sorry, was up in backscroll, didn't see moritz had already answered
17:52 sbp and colomon
17:52 foodoo thanks for the quotes. Can't rakudo.org show a static HTML page in the meantime with exact this information?
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17:57 moritz foodoo: only the maintainer could do that. But when he shows up again, he can just as well change the DNS entry
17:58 flussence hm, what to do with try.rakudo.org?
17:58 sbp redirect to irc://irc.freenode.net/p6eval,isnick
17:58 flussence heh :)
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18:03 mahen23 hello guys
18:03 mahen23 guys, anyone running linux can test this out please? http://mobilemru.com/html5/mahen23/
18:03 sbp mahen23: sorry, this is a perl6 channel!
18:04 sbp try #javascript or #web etc.?
18:04 mahen23 ok
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18:26 masak good weekend, zebras!
18:26 masak (or "good, weekend zebras!", or "good weekend zebras!"...)
18:28 moritz masak: received the book today, thanks
18:29 masak glad to hear it.
18:29 masak I think some people here might find http://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2011/5/107​680-proving-program-termination/fulltext interesting.
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18:50 fglock [ot] the thing by mahen23 was actually fun :)
18:51 masak yes; quite esthetic.
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18:56 fglock nqp seems to be growing up - is there a plan to go for full Perl 6? (just wondering, looks like a good idea)
18:58 moritz fglock: the idea is to keep it fairly minimal, but use it to build rakudo
18:58 moritz (and maybe other compilers)
18:58 moritz which is its main goal
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19:09 atrodo Howdy!  What is the best perl6 mailing list(s) to send an invitation to join us for the YAPC::NA parrot/perl6 BOF?
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19:11 masak maybe perl6-users?
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19:18 moritz agreed
19:28 sorear masak: hi!
19:30 masak sorear: hi!
19:31 masak how's Niecza coming along?
19:31 sorear pretty well - not many tuits right now
19:31 masak know the feeling. :/
19:31 sorear pmurias++ has been playing with an optimizer though
19:31 masak ooh
19:31 sorear the v5 release has been postponed
19:32 masak yeah, I saw.
19:32 moritz having a v5 release of v6 bears some irony :-)
19:33 masak just wait until next month :P
19:36 fglock sorear: hi!
19:37 sorear fglock: hi
19:41 tadzik http://ontwik.com/perl/perl-6-update/ -- is that as fresh as the footnote says, does anyone know?
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20:01 moritz tadzik: after watching the first few minutes, it looks like from 2010 shortly after the first R* release
20:01 tadzik well, when was the 35th Rakudo release?
20:02 masak November 2010.
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20:02 masak (according to docs/release_guide.pod)
20:02 tadzik 2010-11-18   Rakudo #35 "Melbourne"          (masak)
20:02 tadzik aye
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20:05 moritz .u DEGREE
20:05 phenny U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN (°)
20:07 IllvilJa 35th Rakudo release... sounds a bit like the 44th President of the United States or something.
20:08 masak that's preposterous! Rakudo won't be elected president of the United States until 2037!
20:08 masak er. I mean.
20:09 TimToady world domination comes first
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20:10 masak rakudo: my @stuff = <oes us ation>; say "World Domin$_" for @stuff
20:10 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«World Dominoes␤World Dominus␤World Domination␤»
20:11 masak rakudo: say "World Domin{.pick}" given <oes us ation>
20:11 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«World Dominoes␤»
20:11 masak \o/
20:12 fglock :)
20:12 masak I call dibs of toppling the first one! :)
20:16 TimToady silly, they start at the other end
20:18 moritz TheDamian gets one thing wrong in this presentation
20:18 moritz he says that infix + is a method call on the left operand
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20:22 moritz rakudo: $_ = "foo"; .=uc; .say
20:22 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
20:24 tadzik well, that looks uglyish
20:24 moritz rakudo: $_ = "foo"; .= uc; .say
20:24 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ".= uc; .sa"␤»
20:25 sorear yeah, it's actually a method call on BOTH operands :>
20:26 TimToady actually, it's a method on the current language, as defined by the current lexical scope
20:28 TimToady hence, + is defined by the language, not by either object
20:28 TimToady this is especially important if either object is, say, a Python object
20:32 moritz also TheDamian uses for (@list) {  } # note the parens
20:35 fglock btw, experimenting with accessing the 'document' object in the browser: http://perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito.html
20:37 IllvilJa Are there any odds for getting perl 6 sneaked into the web browsers, similarly to how Javascript seem to be available "everywhere"?
20:38 moritz IllvilJa: the odds are very low, because Perl 6 is a rather big language
20:38 IllvilJa That would be quite a feat to get the language available there! (Imagine what you could do with Perl6 + the HTML5 Canvas element)
20:38 fglock hmm - check the link above?
20:38 IllvilJa moritz: understandable.
20:38 TimToady implement the JS backend, and there you are...
20:38 foodoo IllvilJa: Probably not. I read about the same discussion on the Lua mailinglist recently and Lua is a very small language
20:38 tadzik nqp would be nice
20:39 fglock IllvilJa: http://perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito.html
20:39 moritz fglock: I think the question was more about built into the browser
20:40 dalek specs: 8f8d30e | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
20:40 dalek specs: [S32::Exception] start to rewrite the exception spec
20:40 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/8f8d30e799
20:40 TimToady new RS entry, http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Vector_products#Perl_6
20:40 sorear everybody seems to want their favorite language built into browsers
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20:41 sorear as if it would somehow be a good thing for browsers to contain 50 independant 2MB language runtimes
20:41 TimToady at one point there was talk of embedding parrot, but that's been...de-emphasized...
20:41 masak I for one would like to see Perl 6 on Android.
20:41 moritz TimToady: it would need a good security model for that
20:42 TimToady .oO(it would need a good * model for that)
20:42 * tadzik is not really into this "I want everything in the browser" movement
20:43 TimToady tell me you don't use emacs :)
20:43 sjohnson a surprisingly high amount of people do use it
20:43 sjohnson not me tho :)
20:43 * sjohnson uses Vim
20:44 foodoo I spare you the link to the appropriate XKCD Comic as you certainly all know it
20:44 moritz we do.
20:45 tadzik TimToady: no, I don't :) But I liked the tetris
20:45 IllvilJa Well, you don't *need* to have your favorite language in the web browser, I'm surprised how competent Javascript turns out to be if you program it with enough discipline and thought.
20:45 sorear I also don't think it's Android's job to have a ton of distinct language runtimes
20:46 TimToady pugs had the beginning of a JS backend
20:46 foodoo do the python people consider using parrot for Python4? If yes, then Android will support paarot for sure
20:47 sorear why would they?
20:47 moritz foodoo: is python 4 actually in planning?
20:47 moritz it's the first time I've heard about it
20:47 foodoo not that I know of. But if they switched to Parrot, they probably need another version number
20:47 sorear TimToady: can you compile a typical 1kb Perl 6 program to <= 4kb of Javascript?
20:48 moritz maybe if you gzip the javascript...
20:48 TimToady no, but I'm not a p5-to-js translator
20:48 TimToady *p6
20:48 frettled TimToady: you're not that, either?  Sigh.  :D
20:49 TimToady No, the only think I am right now is going to take a nap.
20:49 moritz foodoo: there's a gsoc proposal to implement a python3 compiler for parrot. Let's see how far it gets
20:49 TimToady &
20:50 moritz sleep well
20:50 sorear I suspect that if you proposed Parrot-today to Python, they'd laugh at you.  With good reason.
20:50 moritz feedback on my latest spec change is very welcome
20:50 moritz sorear: right
20:51 fglock sorear: perlito.js is about 2.5 times the size of the Perl6 code
20:52 foodoo Python3 is still rather young. Let's see how things develop until the end of the pre-python4-era ;)
20:54 sorear moritz: it seems inconsistent to have %.payload for extensibility and at the same time be mixing in roles like OSError, why not use one or the other exclusively?
20:55 moritz sorear: I was thinking the same towards the end... I probably should get rid of %.payload
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20:55 moritz sorear: maybe the should be an X::AdHoc which has %.payload, for those too lazy to define their own classes
20:56 moritz basically I want to stir people away from storing too much information in the message
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21:02 sorear moritz: we could possibly use the enum/role coercion to benefit here
21:02 masak moritz: a GSoC proposal -- but has it been accepted?
21:03 moritz sorear: care to elaborate?
21:03 moritz masak: yes
21:03 sorear die $message but Errno::ENOENT
21:03 sorear mixes in a role with an Errno method
21:03 moritz sorear: then $message will still contain the name of the file inline
21:03 sorear although, hmm, we want to mix in to the exception object
21:03 sorear not to the message
21:04 moritz aye
21:04 masak moritz: wow, that's good news.
21:04 sorear do you expect people to be using die $message, :arg<> a lot?
21:04 sorear or some kind of X::Foo.new().throw?
21:04 fglock left #perl6
21:05 sorear I mean, do you expect &die to do most X:: construction?
21:05 moritz sorear: I think those that bother to write their own error classes will either doe X::TheirError.new(...).throw or die X::TheirError.new()
21:05 * masak will do the latter
21:06 [Coke] left #perl6
21:06 moritz sorear: and I want plain die() to be sufficiently flexible to create at least some X:: objects
21:06 masak doing .throw on an exception object feels too magical :)
21:06 sorear moritz: so &die does MMD DWIMmery on Str vs. X::Base?
21:06 moritz yes
21:06 moritz maybe die(Str, @rest of %arguments) creates an X::AdHoc, which has a %.payload etc.
21:07 [Coke] joined #perl6
21:08 moritz in unrelated news I've tried to understand the code in p5's FindBin.pm, and tried to simplify it
21:08 moritz it's mindboggling, and partially very obscure, to say the least
21:08 moritz it searches for the current script in $PATH even if it's in plain sight in the current directory
21:09 sorear What happens if I pass an X::Base to &die which already has a $.backtrace?
21:10 moritz sorear: haven't thought about that yet... it might stack the exceptions somehow
21:10 moritz which we need for .fail() things anways
21:10 moritz s/\.//
21:11 masak $! is supposed to be a stack of exceptions, IIUC.
21:12 moritz I wonder if X::Base simply should have a $.next attribute
21:12 moritz so that it's a linked list of excpetions
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21:34 alester ping pmichaud
21:34 phenny alester: 28 Apr 04:28Z <pmichaud> tell alester Feel free to point rakudo.org to the rakudoperl.org server whenever you're ready
21:35 alester haahah, thanks, phenny!
21:39 masak phenny++
21:42 alester Then again, I imagine pmichaud could have mailed me. :-)
21:43 frettled mail is SO 1990
21:44 tadzik seems that I am mail
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21:45 * moritz lectures tadzik about 'is' not being symmetrical
21:45 tadzik well, right, but I couldn't resist the pun :)
21:47 masak there are several meanings of 'is'. some, not all, symmetrical.
21:47 masak the one frettled used is not.
21:48 sorear dpm
21:48 sorear don't you mean "transitive"?
21:48 * masak hums "all I am sayin', give E-prime a chance"
21:48 masak sorear: no, I think "symmetrical" was the proper term here.
21:49 masak just because mail is SO 1990 does not mean that SO 1990 is mail.
21:50 sorear How did we get from "SO 1990 is mail" to "[tadzik] am mail"
21:50 masak oh, indeed.
21:50 masak application of first symmetry, then transitivity? :)
21:51 masak tadzik: as sorear implies, you also fail at syllogism.
21:51 tadzik . o O ( say something stupid and it becomes a topic of a discussion. Similar to the zebras' case )
21:51 masak so, for that matter, do I.
21:51 tadzik bah, forget about it
21:51 masak just because mail is 1990 does not mean that all things 1990 are mail.
21:52 masak :P
21:53 * masak likes syllogisms because they were the coolest thing around for hundreds of years until boolean logic was discovered
21:53 moritz sorear: 'is' is indeed transitive, but not symmetrical
21:54 moritz (in this context)
21:55 masak right. because 'SO 1990' works as an attribute.
21:56 masak ah. and here's the name of the fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fal​lacy_of_the_undistributed_middle
21:56 masak (Z := 'mail', B := '1990', Y := 'tadzik')
21:56 tadzik g'night #perl6
21:57 masak 'night, tadzik.
21:58 frettled No pandas?
21:58 foodoo left #perl6
21:58 frettled tadzik: sleep tight
21:58 tadzik pandas are so #perl6. #perl6 is so pandas
21:59 masak :P
21:59 tadzik take that, I'll read it in the morning ;)
21:59 frettled :D
21:59 frettled In British English, shouldn't it be "#perl6 are so pandas"?
21:59 masak tadzik: sleep soundly, panda.
22:00 tadzik frettled: that'd also help the symetry
22:00 masak frettled: British English are very strange.
22:00 tadzik and if not, I can adopt my Polish English for this to be correct
22:00 tadzik use English '-Ofun';
22:00 * masak .oO( apply some Polish... )
22:00 frettled Tiger, tiger, burning bright
22:00 tadzik alright, sleeping for real now :)
22:01 frettled in the forests of the night
22:01 frettled what immortal hand or eye
22:01 masak tadzik: you've used up your good nights for the night! :)
22:01 frettled could frame thy fearful symmetry?
22:01 masak symmetr-EYE?
22:02 frettled Hey, it's poetry.  In your eye.
22:02 * masak rubs his eye
22:03 sorear polish English?
22:03 frettled Oh, /me gruntlebuggit.
22:04 tadzik hello again, greetings from sleeping disorders
22:04 frettled sorear: that will make the language shine
22:04 masak tadzik: try harder!
22:04 frettled or softer
22:04 sorear (mean 'you '(is 'tadzik 'mail))?
22:04 masak sorear++
22:04 tadzik masak: after 20 years of insomnia I can pretty much sense that in the nearest block of time I simply _won't_ sleep, no matter what
22:05 tadzik last time this resulted in all-night cardinal hacking
22:05 masak tadzik: have you heard about 90-minute sleep blocks?
22:05 tadzik masak: I seem to recall something like this, yes
22:05 tadzik the main blocker for me is that simply going to bed and closing my eyes won't get me to sleep
22:06 tadzik my organism decides when to sleep, not me
22:06 huf smoke weed
22:06 jasonmay polyphasal sleep is probably impossible for people with REM-related sleeping problems
22:06 masak huf: your choice of nick is suddenly all the clearer.
22:06 huf huh?
22:07 huf how is huf connected to that in any way?
22:07 tadzik no, "huf"
22:07 tadzik ;)
22:07 huf (btw it's pronounced like hoof)
22:07 frettled masak: seems rather foggy to me
22:07 masak yeah, I must've been inhaling or something.
22:08 masak won't happen again ;)
22:08 frettled puff it all out
22:08 tadzik poof, the magic dragon
22:10 frettled This was a very fridayish conversation.
22:10 tadzik and a bit nightish
22:11 frettled I'll try that sleep thing now.  :)
22:11 frettled G'night!
22:11 whiteknight joined #perl6
22:11 tadzik g'night!
22:11 masak on Fridays, the conversational topology is warped, so the shortest distance between supposition and conclusion is not a straight line.
22:13 masak I'm having trouble executing a second REPL command in the new nqp (master branch).
22:13 masak can anyone reproduce this?
22:14 masak seems I'm on HEAD, too.
22:17 alester everyone check your DNS for the new rakudo.org
22:18 tadzik seems that is sent me to rakudoperl.org
22:18 tadzik I'm on opendns
22:18 alester good, that's the point.
22:18 TiMBuS left #perl6
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22:24 alester left #perl6
22:26 masak 'night, #perl6
22:26 masak left #perl6
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22:56 dalek specs: 7c80322 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
22:56 dalek specs: Name exception roles more consistently
22:56 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/7c80322dde
22:56 jnthn evening o/
22:57 tadzik evening o/
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23:00 * jnthn had plenty of Staropramen this evening :)
23:03 Rotwang which is better, staropramen or zaltopramen?
23:03 Rotwang zlato*
23:04 jnthn IMO, Staropramen. Starobrno beats both for me, though. :)
23:04 sorear ~~ ?
23:05 sorear all(Staropramen, Zaltopramen, Starobrno) ~~ ?
23:05 Rotwang czech beer == good beer ^__^
23:05 jnthn sorear: Czech beer. They brew some really nice ones. :)
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23:50 imamelia Isn't Perl 6 supposed to have file slurping built in?
23:50 jnthn my $stuff = slurp('file');
23:51 jnthn rakudo: my $lol-i-didn't-read-it = slurp('README'); say $lol-i-didn't-read-it
23:51 p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤  in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/Ent3tmjNz6␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Ent3tmjNz6␤»
23:51 jnthn aww

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