Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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08:21 jnthn morning o/
08:21 moritz \o morning
08:30 jnthn Wow. 'twas quiet overnight...
08:31 * moritz received two emails regarding the IRC logs overnight
08:31 jnthn Oh. Not so quiet there then. :)
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09:10 dalek rakudo: 7114f56 | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
09:10 dalek rakudo: bump PARROT_REVISION to get some testing on recent birds
09:10 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7114f56615
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11:38 * colomon is dangerously close to proposing that p6 needs an Fop meta operator...
11:39 jnthn Oh Feq...
11:40 moritz colomon: what should it do?
11:40 colomon convert both operands to FatRats.   :)
11:41 moritz eeks.
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11:55 donri can has fap operator?
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11:57 tadzik no please, no unicode in this one. I know there's a character for everything...
11:58 moritz .u fap
11:58 phenny U+A0D4 YI SYLLABLE FAP (ꃔ)
12:00 jnthn .oO( phew! )
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12:09 takadonet morning all
12:14 moritz .u ♺
12:14 phenny U+267A RECYCLING SYMBOL FOR GENERIC MATERIALS (♺)
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13:16 lola_91 holy_cow came.. holy_cow left.. and nobody is here :|
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13:17 Moukeddar_ layla again :)
13:17 moritz holy cow!
13:17 lola_91 moritz: did you see that username? :D
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13:17 lola_91 Moukeddar_: yup! :D
13:17 moritz lola_91: no, I ignore joins/leaves/quits/renames in here, there are far too many of them
13:17 Moukeddar_ hilarious
13:18 Moukeddar_ in xna there is waldo_xxx
13:18 lola_91 lool :D
13:18 Moukeddar_ i didn't know waldo was into porn
13:19 Moukeddar_ moritz, how to ignore them ?
13:19 moritz Moukeddar_: depends on the client
13:20 moritz /IGNORE #perl6 ALL -PUBLIC -ACTIONS
13:20 moritz in irssi
13:20 lola_91 moritz: sometimes it is funny to do something absolutely useless.. :) like just walking by sea side..
13:20 lola_91 moritz: wait.. I find that useful.. I take my words back :p
13:21 moritz lola_91: your picture of me might not be quite accurate :-)
13:21 Moukeddar_ done ,thanks moritz
13:22 lola_91 moritz: I know, I just force you to stop hiding it ;)
13:22 jnthn grrrrr...Russian visas are a darn nuisance to get... :/
13:22 lola_91 jnthn: LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
13:22 Moukeddar_ moritz, be careful
13:22 Moukeddar_ gurls are dangerous :)
13:22 lola_91 jnthn: when are you going?
13:23 jnthn lola_91: Flying on Thursday next week, all being well.
13:23 lola_91 eh... :(
13:23 moritz Moukeddar_: yes, and so are men :-)
13:23 lola_91 jnthn: have fun :)
13:23 jnthn lola_91: Provided I didn't screw up the visa papers...
13:24 lola_91 jnthn: everything is getting harder a bit.. even for my little brother who was not born in Russia, we hardly got him a passport..
13:26 Moukeddar_ what ?
13:26 Moukeddar_ i'm not dangerous
13:26 jnthn lola_91: Not fun :(
13:27 moritz Moukeddar_: you are dangerous, if you have enough relative velocity to another human :-)
13:27 lola_91 jnthn: heeeeeeey! you can make it fun if you want! When I ws in Russian last time I had so much fun! :D walking, visiting famous places.. seeing people.. :) beer for u :P :D
13:28 jnthn lola_91: Oh, being in Russia is great fun!
13:28 jnthn lola_91: It's getting the visa that is annoying.
13:28 lola_91 jnthn: ah that is true.. :\
13:29 jnthn lola_91: Spent most of today so far just working that out...getting all the papers done and sent. :|
13:29 lola_91 sometimes we had to wait for 30-40 days for a simple paper! :\ but I hope for you it will be better :)
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13:30 lola_91 jnthn: ah! our choclate is not bad too ^_^
13:30 jnthn If I have to wait that long I'll miss YAPC... :/
13:30 jnthn lola_91: You and chocolate! :P
13:31 lola_91 jnthn: and mmm.. there is that thing we call...mmm.. zefer... dunno in english :S
13:31 tadzik do we need a visa for YAPC?
13:31 jnthn tadzik: YAPC::Europe? No
13:31 tadzik whew
13:31 jnthn YAPC::Russia? Yes.
13:31 BinGOs In Soviet Russia, visa needs you!
13:31 jnthn :P
13:31 lola_91 jnthn: I live on chocolate.. :P
13:32 jnthn lola_91: Healthy living... :)
13:32 Moukeddar_ in soviet russia jokes , pretty funny
13:33 * jnthn lives on more than beer. Beer is nice, but there's just too many other tasty things too :)
13:34 lola_91 jnthn: i was kidding about beer :P i also try to eat useful things since am kinda need to gain weight :s
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13:36 lola_91 time to go... have fun all! :D
13:37 jnthn bye, lola_91 o/
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17:05 uvtc I see that jnthn++ has been putting lots of work into npq. Does Rakudo use this newer npq yet?
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17:05 masak o/
17:05 colomon \o
17:05 colomon uvtc: no
17:06 uvtc Is Rakudo written in nqp?
17:06 colomon I believe jnthn++ is hoping to get a little more done before he (or better yet, we) starts migrating Rakudo to it.
17:06 masak uvtc: and C. and PIR. and Perl 6.
17:06 jnthn uvtc: rakudo/nom branch is where that work will be done.
17:07 jnthn I'm REALLY close with the nqp changes now.
17:07 jnthn o/ masak
17:07 masak \o
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17:08 jnthn uvtc: The Rakudo grammar and actions are currently written in NQP, and some module loading bits are.
17:08 jnthn uvtc: In rakudo/nom, those will stay in NQP. Also the main compiler object will be in NQP, the meta-objects will be in NQP also.
17:09 jnthn The current set of PIR built-ins will largely go away. Any PIR that stays will get wrapped in a Perl 6 body. There won't be any pure PIR files that we compile in Rakudo. It'll be just NQP, Perl 6 (in the setting), C (dynops, dynpmcs) and the odd bit of PIR in method bodies.
17:10 masak wut? http://www.perldonate.com/
17:10 masak "The fact of the matter is you have to be a really good programmer in Perl and C, and have knowledge of the way many other languages work, to be able to make a useful contribution to Perl development." -- emphatically not.
17:10 Moukeddar masak, that www.infow.com is a BOMB
17:10 Moukeddar thanks
17:10 Moukeddar any similar?
17:11 uvtc Could someone be so kind as to point me to "rakudo/nom"? I only see at github rakudo/rakudo and rakudo/star.
17:11 masak Moukeddar: yes, but not right now. just hand around here ;)
17:11 Moukeddar infoq.com
17:11 jnthn uvtc: It's a branch in rakudo/rakudo
17:11 Moukeddar masak, no problem
17:11 moritz uvtc: but there's not yet much to be seen
17:11 jnthn uvtc: Nothing to see yet.
17:11 jnthn uvtc: Check back in a week or two. :)
17:11 uvtc jnthn: Doh. Thanks.
17:11 masak re the above quote, the fact of the matter is that the most precious thing people can donate to us, good programmers or not, is their time, interest, and enthusiasm. there are many ways to apply those.
17:11 jnthn uvtc: All the work so far has been in NQP, leading up to this.
17:12 uvtc jnthn: Will definitely check back. :)
17:12 jnthn uvtc: But in reality much of that work directly applies to Rakudo also.
17:12 Su-Shee masak: now that is some nonsense..
17:12 colomon masak: I dunno, a few hundred thousand dollars wouldn't hurt either.  ;)
17:13 Su-Shee masak: I ofcourse meant the matter of fact statement and not yours :)
17:13 masak Su-Shee: I was wondering :P
17:13 masak colomon: sure! no doubt. but our bottleneck isn't really money.
17:14 colomon well, it kind of is, but only in a "huge amounts of money" sense.
17:15 colomon I mean, if there was enough money to hire ten of us to work full time on Rakudo, things would get done more quickly.
17:15 masak yes, but.
17:15 masak look at Star Wars.
17:15 colomon for people with sensible amounts of money, donating time and enthusiasm is probably more useful.
17:16 Su-Shee colomon: if you don't have the money, you'd need attraction to others.
17:16 masak the good trilogy was made on a limited budget with limited resources. the bad trilogy was made with a ton of money, a huge staff, and all the latest visual effects.
17:16 masak "art from adversity".
17:17 masak I believe that's not just sour grapes talking. I think in some sense, Perl 6 needs to be an underdog project.
17:18 uvtc Does Rakudo rely on STD.pm6 (the "standard Perl 6 grammar") to know what it's parsing?
17:19 Su-Shee well .. people like me would like to see it really be a commonly used language because that's the only way you'd get all tools and libs and modules you really need.
17:19 colomon uvtc: not yet
17:19 moritz uvtc: it imitates large parts of STD, but it doesn't use it in the form of calling it
17:19 colomon uvtc: Rakudo's grammar is a stripped-down and hacked-up version of STD
17:19 PerlJam uvtc: STD.pm6 is more of a guideline for Rakudo  :)
17:20 Su-Shee colomon: sure it's not hacked down and stripped up? ;)
17:20 uvtc Wow. Interesting. What is the reason for Rakudo not using STD.pm6?
17:20 PerlJam uvtc: STD.pm6 is Too Advanced for one.
17:20 colomon uvtc: STD.pm6 is by far the most complicated thing ever written in Perl 6.  Rakudo is not sophisticated enough to parse it yet.
17:21 colomon ... maybe more process than parse, I suppose.
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17:21 uvtc Hm. I think I'm asking questions, the answers to which I don't yet have the sophistication to understand. :)
17:21 PerlJam uvtc: also, STD.pm6 was/is in flux enough that it would have been a nightmare to keep up with the changes.
17:22 colomon PerlJam++ # very good point
17:22 masak that's better now, though.
17:22 moritz note that niecza uses a far less stripped-down version of STD.pm6
17:22 moritz which is why you get all sorts of fancy error message from it *and* you can run code with it
17:23 moritz niecza: if(3) { say 'oh yes' }
17:23 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: A␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in
17:23 p6eval ..<filename unkno…
17:23 moritz ouch
17:23 moritz this is not the error message you are looking for
17:23 jnthn fancy error message!
17:23 colomon std: if(3) { say 'oh yes' }
17:23 p6eval std 9f27365: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Word 'if' interpreted as 'if()' function call; please use whitespace instead of parens at /tmp/65fLwXTkMw line 1:␤------> [32mif[33m⏏[31m(3) { say 'oh yes' }[0m␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row) at /tmp/65fLwXTkMw line
17:23 p6eval ..1:␤---…
17:23 PerlJam moritz: an excellent counter example!  :)
17:24 moritz that error message means 'niecza is currently hosed up, clean and rebuild please'
17:24 uvtc Blogging request: Would love to see an introductory article describing how Rakudo, npq, STD.pm6, PCT, etc. all fit (or would fit, or should fit, or soon might fit) together.
17:25 moritz uvtc: like http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/rakudo-overview.html but in updated?
17:26 uvtc moritz: {...reading...}
17:26 PerlJam moritz: updated to include the other implementations too would be very nice.
17:26 PerlJam moritz: and other Rakudo backends
17:26 moritz PerlJam: I fear I don't know enough about other implementations to do that
17:27 PerlJam well, maybe just niecza.  At least you can ask sorear lots of questions  :)
17:27 moritz and I don't know anything about other rakudo backends, except that they are in planning
17:29 moritz niecza: if(3) { say 'OH NOEZ' }
17:29 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: A␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in
17:29 p6eval ..<filename unkno…
17:29 moritz huh.
17:29 PerlJam What's needed is wiki-like editing and someone to prod others to add their respective parts.
17:31 moritz PerlJam: you have my permission to turn it into a wiki. I can supply the .svg source for that file
17:31 moritz ah, it's even in rakudo
17:31 moritz in doc/architecture.{svg,html}
17:32 uvtc moritz: re. "like {this} but updated?", no, I don't think so. I'm more interested in learning what pieces Rakudo is made of. Evidently, it's mostly made of nqp, but also some C, PIR, and Perl 6. It also makes use of a "grammar"
17:32 uvtc moritz: but I don't really understand what that means in a practical sense.
17:32 PerlJam uvtc: do you know what NQP is ?
17:32 uvtc PerlJam: fwict, it's a subset of Perl 6.
17:33 moritz uvtc: in what practical sense? for modifying it? for compiling it? for runtime speed? feature completeness?
17:34 PerlJam uvtc: aye.  Just enough of a subset to parse the Perl 6 used to create Rakudo (the various modules, grammar and actions).  The bits that NQP can't actually implement natively yet are farmed out to either C or PIR
17:37 uvtc moritz: In a practical sense -- that is, reading the wikipedia page on grammars does not really help me understand what a grammer is and how Rakudo would use it to run Perl 6 code.
17:38 uvtc moritz: Perhaps I skipped too many high school english classes. :)
17:38 colomon Rakudo uses it to parse Perl 6 code.
17:38 PerlJam uvtc: a grammar describes the structure and semantics of a language.
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17:40 PerlJam uvtc: so, for example, the rule moritz has been trying to diddle with niecza is "an identifier immediately followed by parens is a function call" i.e. "foo()"  is a function call, but "foo ()" is not
17:41 uvtc PerlJam: Ok, the grammar is what specifies that. Gotcha.
17:42 PerlJam uvtc: in our case, the grammar is written in Perl  6.
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17:44 uvtc But in what way can Rakudo use STD.pm6 as its parser if it have a parser to parse it. (How much wood would a wood chuck chuck...)
17:44 uvtc s/if it/if it must/
17:45 PerlJam uvtc: through a process called bootstrapping.
17:46 PerlJam uvtc: you build a mini-compiler  that undertands enough of your language that you can then write your language in terms of itself.
17:46 moritz uvtc: nqp can also parse Perl 6 (though not quite as completely as STD.pm6 can)
17:46 moritz it's just like most C compilers today are written in C
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17:47 jnthn uvtc: NQP keeps an "already compiled" version of itself
17:47 jnthn It uses that to compile itself again, so changes can be made
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17:48 jnthn At some points, that "already compiled" base version gets updated.
17:49 uvtc So, at some point in the future, Rakudo's own bootstrapping parser will be able to parse STD.pm6, and then it will be able to handle any Perl 6 you throw at it?
17:49 PerlJam uvtc: maybe
17:49 moritz at least on the syntax level, yes
17:50 colomon that's the ideal goal, for sure.
17:50 uvtc I think I need to sip some herbal tea and ponder the nature of bootstrapping compilers...
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17:51 uvtc Thanks very much for the info, all. :)
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18:09 fglock I've updated http://perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito.html
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18:13 masak fglock++
18:14 fglock :)
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18:52 colomon #phasers in 8 min?
18:53 Util colomon: yes
18:54 masak ooh, colomon++ for reminding.
18:54 jnthn ooh, me too!
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19:01 masak rakudo: $_ = \()[0]
19:02 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in isa_pmc()␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/y4MJK0IMPA␤»
19:02 * masak submits rakudobug
19:03 masak rakudo: say \()[0] # it's really evaluating the \()[0] that causes the error
19:03 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in type()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ys1onhIQWa␤»
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19:10 masak rakudo: say 1 if 10 % i
19:10 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Numeric' at line 3200:CORE.setting␤  in 'Numeric' at line 3200:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 7622:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 519:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 519:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line
19:10 p6eval ..519:CORE.settin…
19:10 masak rakudo: 10 % i
19:10 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤  in 'Numeric' at line 3200:CORE.setting␤  in 'Numeric' at line 3200:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 7622:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 519:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line 519:CORE.setting␤  in 'infix:<%>' at line
19:10 p6eval ..519:CORE.settin…
19:10 * masak submits rakudobug
19:10 masak this one is from hakank++. he meant to write this:
19:10 masak rakudo: my $i = 3; if 10 % $i { say 1 }
19:11 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«1␤»
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19:13 uniejo_ rakudo: i.perl.say
19:13 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«Complex.new(0, 1)␤»
19:14 masak rakudo: say i === i
19:14 p6eval rakudo 7114f5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
19:14 arnsholt Hmm. What's the sensible extension of modulo to the complex domain, I wonder?
19:15 masak arnsholt: might be there ain't one. in which case NaN would be fine.
19:15 masak but it shouldn't cause a stack failure.
19:15 arnsholt Yeah, there's no immediately obvious generalisation that I can see
19:16 arnsholt Yeah, it's definitely a bug. Probably because noone found a sensible generalisation and the fallback is to numify both arguments, or some such at a guess
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19:18 masak no, I don't see how the idea of a remainder generalizes to the complex plane.
19:23 dakkar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_algorithm#Gaussian_integers
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19:26 masak cool, dakkar++
19:26 masak that's the first *use* of Gaussian integers that I've seen. :)
19:27 masak but still, that definition of a complex remainder seems a bit tangled with the iterations of Euclid's algorithm.
19:28 * PerlJam is coding something right now that would love to have some concise syntax for lagging by N elements while processing a list
19:28 PerlJam (processing time-series data in phase space)
19:29 colomon The 10 % i sounds like a bug to me.  I'll try to sort out what I've done wrong later today.
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19:45 masak Moukeddar: \o/
19:45 Moukeddar hello masak
19:45 Moukeddar how you doing ?
19:45 masak Moukeddar: I'm less happy than usual... having Russian visa trouble :/
19:45 slavik left #perl6
19:46 masak but there are worse things in life ;)
19:46 [Coke] left #perl6
19:46 * tadzik mumbles something about snow in may
19:46 frettled masak: and I guess explaining to them that they're all just Swedish emigrants from a thousand years ago will _not_ improve on that.
19:46 masak frettled: strangely, no.
19:47 slavik joined #perl6
19:47 Moukeddar masak, ooh , bureaucracy crap right ?
19:47 masak frettled: visa application form just says "If you had USSR or Russian nationality at some time please indicate when and why you lost it"
19:47 masak Moukeddar: something like that.
19:47 jnthn "I lost it because I was Russian!"
19:47 jnthn Oh, they didn't mean that...
19:47 jnthn :)
19:48 [Coke] joined #perl6
19:48 masak :P
19:48 Moukeddar well , you know , in Soviet russia ...
19:48 tadzik In Soviet Russia you fall on the snow?
19:48 Moukeddar fill the empty with the  apropriate  words
19:49 masak ...your visa gets YOU?
19:49 Moukeddar kinda :)
19:49 tadzik The bus cathes you? :)
19:49 Moukeddar the bus rides you
19:49 Moukeddar that has a meaning
19:50 jnthn .oO( ouch! )
19:50 tadzik I think "catches" is more subtle
19:50 Moukeddar i hope things will get solved for you masak
19:50 Moukeddar Rides is more nasty
19:50 Moukeddar which is so russian :)
19:50 tadzik . o O ( the cold cathes you )
19:50 masak Moukeddar: thank you. we'll see. :/
19:51 jnthn Russia is really quite nice. Getting a visa to go there is teh horrible though.
19:51 Moukeddar if not, just tell me
19:51 Moukeddar and we'll clear them up :)
19:51 Moukeddar just for you
19:52 Moukeddar_ joined #perl6
19:52 Moukeddar_ damn weather
19:53 Moukeddar_ masak, that website is awesome
19:53 Moukeddar_ been there all the afternoon :)
19:53 masak Moukeddar_: glad you like it :)
19:53 dr_df0 joined #perl6
19:54 Moukeddar_ is there something more like this?
19:54 masak Moukeddar_: you might want to check out http://distributedpodcast.com/2011/episode-2-cqrs-building-block -- and generally stuff that Greg Young has done.
19:55 Moukeddar_ what's CQRS ?
19:56 Moukeddar left #perl6
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19:56 masak Moukeddar_: :)
19:56 masak Moukeddar_: you should read the logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/cqrs-perl6/2011-04-15
19:56 masak Moukeddar_: and if you want to talk more about CQRS, pop into that channel and we'll have a chat. ;)
19:56 dr_df0 joined #perl6
19:57 * masak doesn't want to distract #perl6 too much when there's a dedicated channel #cqrs-perl6
20:00 Moukeddar_ wow , that's some engineering stuff :)
20:01 masak it's a fascinating concept. quite eye-opening.
20:02 Moukeddar_ or mindblowing :)
20:02 Moukeddar_ wait , you're not Ivan right ?
20:03 masak not to my knowledge.
20:04 Moukeddar_ ok ;)
20:05 Moukeddar_ i'll brink a cup of tea
20:05 Moukeddar_ this is HOT :)
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20:14 Moukeddar masak, you're a master :)
20:15 masak I wish :P
20:17 Moukeddar you're good
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20:18 masak you say this only on the basis of a few links I provide? that just puts your judgment in question :P
20:18 tadzik masak: have a baby bison: http://i.imgur.com/FwwuK.jpg
20:18 tadzik I wonder if Baby Żubrs look similar :)
20:18 masak tadzik: awww!
20:19 Moukeddar all i see is STEAKS
20:19 tadzik you can't spell slaughter without laughter, eh?
20:19 Moukeddar masak, i'm talking from the log i'm reading
20:20 Moukeddar tadzik, i can,in arabic :)
20:20 tadzik :P
20:20 masak Moukeddar: oh -- in that case, thank you very much ;)
20:20 masak Moukeddar: I had a good teacher :)
20:20 Moukeddar you guys are making my summer plans even cooler ,
20:20 Moukeddar esp. you masak
20:21 Moukeddar in the end of this summer i'll be the new regional Guru :)
20:22 dolmen joined #perl6
20:27 Moukeddar masak, you're such good teacher :)
20:27 Moukeddar the smooth Teacher
20:28 masak I came back from that course in Poland all filled with inspiration.
20:28 masak it was easy to pass a fraction of it on to my friends here ;)
20:28 stkowski joined #perl6
20:31 masak moritz++ # parrot-dev :)
20:32 birdwindupbird left #perl6
20:35 masak judging from those timings, I should be running Rakudo 2011.01... :)
20:36 MayDaniel left #perl6
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20:39 moritz these timings mostly reflect nqp runtime, I think
20:39 moritz s/nqp/nqp-rx/
20:40 Su-Shee left #perl6
20:41 * moritz finds that he probably didn't measure what he think he measured, and starts anew
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20:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: 932f6da | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
20:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: Make sure derived dispatchers are fixed up. Fixes the last two test regressions in the ctmo branch after the full switch to using compile time meta-objects.
20:54 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/932f6dae6a
20:54 jnthn Test runs on ctmo welcome; merge to master imminent.
20:55 * moritz test runs
20:55 Moukeddar joined #perl6
20:55 jnthn Danke :)
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20:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: 61e5ea0 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
20:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: Update bootstrap.
20:58 dalek nqp/ctmo: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/61e5ea04cd
20:59 moritz t/p6regex/01-regex.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 742 Failed: 656) Failed tests:  1-55, 62-83, 85, 87, 89-96, 100, 105-108
20:59 moritz ... and many more
21:00 moritz the non-regex tests pass
21:00 jnthn huh, I don't even have them run on make test...
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21:01 moritz make p6regex-test
21:02 moritz the Makefile line says
21:02 moritz test: all core-test setting-test p6regex-test
21:03 jnthn huh, how come nmake test doens't run the tohers for me... :
21:03 jnthn :S
21:03 jnthn oh...no wonder it won't work
21:04 Moukeddar where's masak ?
21:04 jnthn $P0 = get_hll_global ['Regex'], 'Cursor'
21:04 jnthn That ain't gonna work any more...
21:04 moritz Moukeddar: Sweden :-)
21:04 jnthn Anyway, I expect it's the test harness that's broken.
21:04 jnthn Well, I can tell it is.
21:04 Moukeddar hehe ,thanks for the intel moritz
21:05 M_o_C joined #perl6
21:05 moritz jnthn: maybe I can get around to rewriting it in nqp in the following days
21:05 jnthn moritz: That would be for the best
21:05 jnthn moritz: The code is old enough to still mention PGE in it.
21:05 * moritz has taken the next three days off of work
21:06 jnthn moritz: I don't think I want to block rakudo/nom on fixing that.
21:06 moritz jnthn: that's ok
21:06 jnthn If regexes were actually broken I think we'd be failing to bootstrap. :)
21:06 jnthn OK, if all of core-test is OK, I think it's merge time.
21:08 * jnthn goes for it
21:08 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 20 commits to nqp by jnthn
21:10 jnthn OK, that leaves...installation.
21:13 plainhao left #perl6
21:15 jnthn HLL.pbc, P6Regex.pbc and Regex.pbc conflict. :(
21:15 jnthn pmichaud: ping
21:16 moritz nqp: 'abc'
21:16 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«sh: ./nqp: not found␤»
21:17 jnthn What's the "sh" short for there? ;)
21:17 Moukeddar left #perl6
21:19 moritz wtf is killing the nqp on p6eval?
21:19 jnthn Does it fail to re-build somehow?
21:21 moritz the logs don't show it
21:23 moritz jnthn: does nqp still set $/ or $0 after a regex match?
21:25 jnthn moritz: I've not knowingly changed that.
21:25 jnthn e.g. if it already did, I guess it still should
21:25 jnthn $0 isn't set
21:25 jnthn I mean
21:25 jnthn If $/ is there, $0, $1 etc just work.
21:25 moritz nqp: 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say $/[0]
21:25 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say $/[0]"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20767 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5644)␤»
21:26 jnthn parens
21:26 moritz nqp: 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say($/[0])
21:26 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Symbol '$/' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:107)␤»
21:26 jnthn nqp: 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say($/[0])
21:26 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Symbol '$/' not predeclared in <anonymous>␤current instr.: 'parrot;PCT;HLLCompiler;panic' pc 146 (compilers/pct/src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:107)␤»
21:26 moritz nqp: 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say($0)
21:26 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say($0)"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20767 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5644)␤»
21:26 moritz jnthn: that's what I mean
21:26 jnthn nqp: say($0)
21:26 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say($0)"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20767 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5644)␤»
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21:26 jnthn oh, doesn't recognize those forms at all.
21:27 jnthn Did nqp-rx do that?
21:27 jnthn nqp: my $m := 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say($m[0])
21:27 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«abc␤»
21:28 jnthn That works, mind.
21:28 moritz nqp-rx: 'abc' ~~ /(.+)/; say($0)
21:28 jnthn For the conflicting PBCs, I'm wodnering about prefixing them somehow
21:28 jnthn NQPHLL.pbc or some such
21:29 jnthn Bit ugly but...can't install it as HLL.pbc or it upsets nqp-rx, and thus Parrot's oplib building and stuff.
21:30 moritz that was my first attempt too, but I failed at renaming stuff :-)
21:31 Tene jnthn: so what's coming next for your work here, now that you've merged ctmo into master?
21:31 leprevost joined #perl6
21:31 jnthn Tene: rakudo/nom
21:32 Tene Great. :)
21:32 jnthn Tene: Getting Rakudo using new nqp and 6model and so forth.
21:32 ymasory joined #perl6
21:32 jnthn moritz: Yeah it's, er, intricate :)
21:35 tadzik jnthn: fails in t/setting/01-resizablepmcarray.t and t/setting/02-hash.t are alright?
21:37 jnthn tadzik: Yeah, those tests are kinda bogus-ish now
21:38 M_o_C left #perl6
21:38 jnthn tadzik: We used to poke stuff into the Parrot namespace
21:38 jnthn But it's time to stop doing workarounds like that. It's kinda evil.
21:38 moritz nqp: todo("foo")
21:38 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find sub todo␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 30 ((file unknown):20)␤»
21:38 jnthn nqp: ok("foo")
21:38 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«ok 1␤»
21:39 jnthn moritz: Feel free to ass to src/core
21:39 jnthn *add
21:39 jnthn testing.pm iirc
21:41 ymasory left #perl6
21:42 moritz nqp: my $re = "bc"; say('abc' ~~ /$re/);
21:42 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 1, near " \"bc\"; say"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20767 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5644)␤»
21:42 moritz nqp: my $re := "bc"; say('abc' ~~ /$re/);
21:42 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«bc␤»
21:43 moritz how do I interpolate as a regex?
21:43 jnthn <$re>
21:43 ymasory joined #perl6
21:43 moritz nqp: my $re := ".*"; say('abc' ~~ /<$re>/);
21:43 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«abc␤»
21:43 moritz thanks
21:45 jnthn moritz: Think I've got the rename done.
21:45 ymasory left #perl6
21:46 jnthn Couple of surprises. ;)
21:47 ymasory joined #perl6
21:54 dalek nqp: 8bffb73 | jonathan++ | / (11 files):
21:54 dalek nqp: Some PBC renaming so we can install without trampling on things already in Parrot's library directory.
21:54 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8bffb73fca
21:54 dalek nqp: 53e7266 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
21:54 dalek nqp: Update bootstrap after renaming.
21:54 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/53e7266aa2
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22:02 jnthn ah, nom branch isn't know by dalek...
22:02 * jnthn tries to remember where to fix that
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: d8e5dec | jdhore++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Add myself as the release manager for the May release.
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d8e5dec1bf
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 25e5bd0 | TiMBuS++ | src/core/IO/Socket/INET.pm:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Changed IO::Socket::INET to act more like perl5's. One connection per object, acts a little more like a filehandle, and most importantly, actually works (the old code no longer connects).
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom:
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/25e5bd04b4
22:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 76425ab | moritz++ | src/ (11 files):
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22:03 tadzik :)
22:03 jnthn oh, it is, just not on push notifications
22:03 jnthn So I have to be patient ;)
22:03 tadzik heuristic branch merge fail?
22:03 pmichaud jnthn: pong
22:03 phenny pmichaud: 01 May 20:44Z <jnthn> tell pmichaud I managed to resolve the prefixes method issue relatively easily in the end. :)
22:03 jnthn Yeah
22:03 jnthn pmichaud: ETOOLATE
22:03 pmichaud +1
22:03 pmichaud I often am.
22:03 jnthn That wasn't what I was going to tell you.
22:04 jnthn Well, ask :)
22:04 jnthn That was old news ;)
22:04 pmichaud so, what's the new news?
22:04 jnthn I had to install e.g. HLL.pbc as NQPHLL.pbc. Just used that prefix for now.
22:04 jnthn Otherwise we scribble over the ones nqp-rx installs
22:04 jnthn Which Parrot relies on
22:04 pmichaud wfm
22:04 jnthn And Rakudo master... :)
22:04 jnthn OK, good. :)
22:05 pmichaud could also be HLL-2 or HLL-nqp or something like that
22:05 pmichaud but any name is fine
22:05 jnthn yeah, I don't feel too strongly.
22:05 pmichaud better might even be nqp/HLL.pbc
22:05 jnthn ooh, yeah
22:05 jnthn It's tied into use statements too... :)
22:05 jnthn Anyway, can always twiddle later with that if we feel like it. It's not too set in stone.
22:05 pmichaud well, then it could go into languages/nqp at some point
22:06 pmichaud since we know we're going to *have* a runtime library, might as well make it a real language :-)
22:06 pmichaud anyway, those are just ideas
22:06 jnthn We already do have .HLL 'nqp'
22:06 pmichaud right
22:06 pmichaud so that tells me perhaps it should be languages/nqp/...whatever
22:06 jnthn The problem is that load_bytecode doesn't (as far as I could tell) look in languages/[hll name]/ at the moment.
22:06 pmichaud (and could potentially be installed that way by Parrot if/when Parrot adopts the new nqp)
22:07 pmichaud not by default, no.  but you can add it to the path, or you can use  load_bytecode 'nqp/hll.pbc'
22:07 jnthn load_language does, mind...
22:07 jnthn True
22:07 jnthn Well, thing is we never write load_bytecode 'HLL.pbc' now. We write use HLL; :)
22:07 jnthn Well, use NQPHLL now...
22:07 pmichaud seems like 'use' could be smarter, then.
22:07 pmichaud i.e., figure out where to look.
22:07 jnthn Yeah, it easily could.
22:08 pmichaud and   use nqp::HLL;  looks nicer still :-)
22:08 jnthn *nod*
22:08 pmichaud anyway, those are ideas -- whatever you decide for now will be just fine
22:08 pmichaud we can always clean it up a bit later
22:08 jnthn Sure, I mostly just wanted to unblock working on rakudo/nom. :)
22:09 jnthn And not being able to install it was my last blocker. :)
22:09 pmichaud I still feel pretty uneasy about the way we generate constants in rakudo; part of me was thinking we might want to fix that first before the branch
22:09 pmichaud but if you're ready for the branch already; any sequence is fine with me
22:09 jnthn Generate constants?
22:09 * masak .oO( constant unease )
22:09 pmichaud for example,   1.45  currently ends up in being several runtime calls to generate a Rat
22:09 jnthn Eww.
22:09 pmichaud *including* runtime calls to generate a constant 145 and 100 from strings
22:10 jnthn Worse is that 42 gets re-built everytime.
22:10 jnthn Well, also bad
22:10 pmichaud right
22:10 jnthn :)
22:10 jnthn Well, we can fix that
22:10 jnthn Just shove it into the SC.
22:10 araujo left #perl6
22:10 pmichaud anyway, it shouldn't be a blocker
22:10 pmichaud again, either way is fine
22:10 pmichaud ....and I'm being called to the other room, so I'll bbl (or maybe tomorrow)
22:10 jnthn It's a trivial fix with the new stuff I've built.
22:10 jnthn So I'll probably take it on during nom. :)
22:11 pmichaud wfm
22:11 Helios left #perl6
22:11 jnthn Catch you later/tomorrow
22:11 pmichaud I'm going to continue fleshing out a benchmark suite of sorts
22:11 jnthn OK, excellent
22:11 tadzik . o O ( CATCH { you.later } )
22:11 pmichaud then I'll turn to nqp/raknom
22:11 pmichaud afk
22:11 jnthn tadzik: Well, you can try :P
22:11 tadzik :D:D
22:12 Helios joined #perl6
22:14 tadzik jnthn: mind me fixing those perl6multisub.c:955:55: warning: suggest braces around empty body in an 'if' statement ?
22:14 jnthn Which compiler is the style cop?
22:14 jnthn :P
22:15 tadzik gcc of course :)
22:15 jnthn meh
22:15 jnthn Feel free if it makes things quieter. :)
22:15 tadzik I'm on 4.5.2
22:15 jnthn perl6multisub.pmc's life is somewhat endangered.
22:15 jnthn But the code in it will for the most part stay, just elsewhere. :)
22:16 masak why does gcc call it an "empty body"? that's a silly name for dangling syntax.
22:16 tadzik now that I look at it I'm not sure I know what gcc actually means
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22:19 tadzik if (foo); bar; is where it should produce such a warning
22:19 masak right.
22:20 tadzik *shrug*
22:20 tadzik I'll pass
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22:21 tadzik well, gcc shuts up when you use { } around the if'ed statement. Stupid
22:21 jnthn gcc--
22:22 jnthn msvc++
22:22 jnthn ;)
22:22 masak gccbug!
22:24 tadzik for some reason panda can no longer build with make -j2
22:24 tadzik but it passes all tests on rakudo/nom :)
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22:38 masak 'night, #perl6
22:38 masak left #perl6
22:39 dalek rakudo: 42dcfd1 | masak++ | src/core/Int.pm:
22:39 dalek rakudo: [src/core/Int.pm] made gcd signature slurpy
22:39 dalek rakudo:
22:39 dalek rakudo: This way, there's less need to invent a corresponding infix:<gcd> op
22:39 dalek rakudo: just to be able to reduce over it. And it's not like &gcd is spec'd
22:39 dalek rakudo: anyway. :-)
22:39 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/42dcfd104d
22:42 dr_df0 hello all
22:42 dr_df0 is perl6 moving away from parrot vm?
22:43 dr_df0 i was reading some news ...
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22:45 jnthn dr_df0: Where'd you read that news?
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22:47 dr_df0 dont remember now ... so many rss'es :)
22:48 dr_df0 jnthn: i'll look for it
22:48 jnthn dr_df0: Perl 6 is language, so it's a meaningless question as you asked it. :) If you really meant, "is Rakudo moving away from Parrot vm", then no, but it is looking to support *additional* backends.
22:49 dr_df0 jnthn: right, I meant Rakudo ... after all specs reading such a mistake ... sorry :)
22:49 jnthn No worries :)
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22:57 tadzik the spectest passes on rakudo/nom
22:58 jnthn tadzik: I'll soon put a stop to that... :)
23:00 tadzik :)
23:00 tadzik fun!
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23:09 tadzik 'night #perl6
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23:16 jnthn sleep &
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