Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-04

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:30 Moukeddar hello
00:31 Moukeddar masak is gone
00:31 Moukeddar ?
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00:45 colomon o/
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00:58 Moukeddar what's up ?
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01:06 Util Moukeddar: I am working to set up a big Amazon EC2 instance to reproduce the benchmarks that are today's hot topic.
01:07 Moukeddar wow , good use of the cloud :)
01:07 Moukeddar good luck
01:09 Moukeddar that's gonne be a bit expensive :)
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02:03 sorear good * #perl6
02:06 sorear niecza: say 2 + 2
02:06 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«4␤»
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02:06 sorear niecza: if(3) { say 'OH NOEZ' }
02:06 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: A␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in
02:06 p6eval ..<filename unkno…
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02:16 sorear niecza: if(3) { say 'OH NOEZ' }
02:16 p6eval niecza : OUTPUT«Cannot open assembly './run/Niecza.exe': No such file or directory.␤»
02:21 colomon > 5 % i
02:21 colomon Int() infix:<%> Complex() is not defined
02:21 colomon Not 100% convinced that's an improvement...
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02:27 colomon NaN instead?
02:29 sorear niecza: if(3) { say 'OH NOEZ' }
02:29 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.FormatException: Unknown char: A␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, NumberStyles style, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at System.Double.Parse (System.String s, IFormatProvider provider) [0x00000] in
02:29 p6eval ..<filename unkno…
02:41 tylercurtis rakudo: say 1/0
02:41 p6eval rakudo 42dcfd: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
02:45 colomon rakudo: say (1/0).perl
02:45 p6eval rakudo 42dcfd: OUTPUT«1/0␤»
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02:49 colomon > 5 % i
02:49 colomon NaN
02:49 colomon > i %% 5
02:49 colomon Bool::False
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03:00 sorear what is wrong with niecza I wonder...
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05:21 cotto what's the right address to send an announcement about the Parrot Developer Summit to?
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07:08 moritz nqp: say(1)
07:08 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
07:09 moritz cotto: perl6-compiler@perl.org
07:09 moritz nqp: sub test_line($line, $todo) { my @chunks := match($line, /\S+/, :global) }; test_line('abc def', 1)
07:09 p6eval nqp:  ( no output )
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07:15 cotto moritz, thanks
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07:39 moritz niecza: say 'bazaar' ~~ /a*:a/
07:39 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«␤»
07:40 moritz std: /a*:a/
07:40 p6eval std 9f27365: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
07:40 moritz nqp has a (failing) test that assumes that would throw an exception somehow
07:40 moritz I think that test is borked
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07:48 sorear niecza: say +Any
07:48 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Numeric in class Any␤  at  line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0)␤  at /tmp/dcaBRaqVEw line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 1)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1311 (CORE C552_ANON @ 2)␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line
07:48 p6eval ..1312 (CORE modul…
07:49 sorear oh, I see...
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07:50 moritz nqp: my $r := 'abc' ~~ /(.)(.)<alpha>/; say($r.dump_str);
07:50 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Method 'dump_str' not found for invocant of class 'SixModelObject'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 89 ((file unknown):34725662)␤»
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07:51 masak karma hakank
07:51 aloha hakank has karma of 1.
07:51 masak hakank++
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07:53 tadzik nothing like suprise masak in the morning. Good morning #perl6
07:59 moritz rakudo: use Test; todo('foo', 1); ok(0, "bar")
07:59 p6eval rakudo 42dcfd: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - bar# TODO foo␤»
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08:13 dalek nqp: 625f17d | moritz++ | t/p6regex/rx_backtrack:
08:13 dalek nqp: [t] fix a simple backtrack test
08:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/625f17da0c
08:13 dalek nqp: 4b653ba | moritz++ | src/core/testing.pm:
08:13 dalek nqp: implement todo()
08:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4b653ba01a
08:13 dalek nqp: 8fc008a | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
08:13 dalek nqp: remove outdated comment from 01-regex.t
08:13 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/8fc008a376
08:13 moritz jnthn: feel pinged
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08:24 tadzik moritz: I think that t/01-regex.t also needs fixing pod: when I did, it crashed on .loadlib rather than inside the pod
08:24 tadzik oh wait, whey shouldn't be runned with nqp
08:24 moritz aye :-)
08:25 tadzik t/p6regex/01-regex.t .. open3: exec of ./parrot t/p6regex/01-regex.t failed at /usr/lib64/perl5/vendor_perl/5.12​.3/TAP/Parser/Iterator/Process.pm line 168
08:25 tadzik not really expected, is it?
08:25 moritz it's know to be broken atm
08:25 tadzik wait, I'm stupid, nvm :)
08:26 moritz which is why I'm rewriting it in nqp
08:26 tadzik great!
08:26 tadzik ++moritz
08:27 dalek nqp: de3220e | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t (2 files):
08:27 dalek nqp: [t/p6regex] disable broken PIR script for now
08:27 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/de3220ebeb
08:27 dalek nqp: 48d0448 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
08:27 dalek nqp: [t/p6eregex] add first shot of regex test runner
08:27 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/48d0448f31
08:28 moritz nqp: say(:16("a"))
08:28 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "say(:16(\"a"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 26677 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7099)␤»
08:31 moritz nqp: my %expansions := (a => 1, b => 2); say(%expansions);
08:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«2␤»
08:31 moritz nqp: my %expansions := (a => 1, b => 2); say(%expansions<a>);
08:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:32 moritz nqp: my %expansions := (a => 1, b => 2); say(%expansions<b>);
08:32 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:32 moritz nqp: my %expansions := (a => 1, b => 2); say(%expansions<c>);
08:32 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
08:37 dalek nqp: b1d4c13 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
08:37 dalek nqp: [t/p6regex] start to expand backslash escapes
08:37 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/b1d4c13915
08:42 moritz nqp: say(HLL::Actions::string_to_int("a0", 16))
08:42 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in invoke()␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 48 ((file unknown):50557241)␤»
08:43 moritz nqp: use HLL::Actions; say(HLL::Actions::string_to_int("a0", 16))
08:43 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«"load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'HLL/Actions.pbc'␤current instr.: 'nqp;ModuleLoader;_block132' pc 1727 (src/stage2/gen/module_loader.pir:594)␤»
08:43 moritz nqp: use HLL; say(HLL::Actions::string_to_int("a0", 16))
08:43 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Cannot fetch object from non-existant serialization context 1304457627.79465␤current instr.: '' pc 1269 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:274)␤»
08:45 moritz nqp: use NQPHLL; say(HLL::Actions::string_to_int("a0", 16))
08:45 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«160␤»
08:48 moritz hooray for code reuse
08:49 dalek nqp: 3d43ac9 | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
08:49 dalek nqp: [t/p6regex] also expand \xBEEF escapes
08:49 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3d43ac98e4
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09:28 dalek nqp: 9a5e02f | moritz++ | t/p6regex/ (3 files):
09:28 dalek nqp: [t/p6regex] update error message wording
09:28 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/9a5e02fa3d
09:29 moritz nqp: '(123' ~~ /'(' ~ ')' \d+/; say("alive");
09:29 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_who on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3792 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:216)␤»
09:29 moritz jnthn: see above
09:31 moritz nqp: my $re = "'(' ~ ')' \d+"; '(123' ~~ /<$re>/
09:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Assignment ("=") not supported in NQP, use ":=" instead at line 1, near " \"'(' ~ ')"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 26677 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7099)␤»
09:31 moritz nqp: my $re := "'(' ~ ')' \d+"; '(123' ~~ /<$re>/
09:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\d' at line 1, near "+\"; '(123'"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 26677 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7099)␤»
09:31 moritz nqp: my $re := "'(' ~ ')' \\d+"; '(123' ~~ /<$re>/
09:31 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Can only use get_who on a SixModelObject␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3792 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:216)␤»
09:31 moritz in the test harness, that causes an infinite loop
09:32 moritz might be related to the try { } block around it
09:32 moritz jnthn: and the test script terminates with 'Null PMC access in can()' at the end of the run
09:35 dalek nqp: 221501e | moritz++ | t/p6regex/01-regex.t:
09:35 dalek nqp: [t/p6regex] skip looping tests for now; emit late plan
09:35 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/221501e537
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09:53 jnthn moritz: Looks like an error reporting breakage in FAILGOAL.
09:56 dalek nqp: f480bab | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
09:56 dalek nqp: [build] run p6regex tests with nqp
09:56 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f480bab769
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10:05 dalek nqp: 1226591 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
10:05 dalek nqp: [build] use the current nqp for testing, not the installed one
10:05 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/12265913da
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10:19 jnthn moritz: Argh. It's broken because it tries to use HLL::Compiler.lineof during error reporting, which of course may well not have been loaded.
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10:19 TiMBuS ubuntu is telling me i need to update 'Larry Wall's Practical Extraction and Report Language'
10:20 jnthn nqp: my $re := "'(' ~ ')' \\d+"; '(123' ~~ /<$re>/use NQPHLL;
10:20 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near "'(123' ~~ "␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 26677 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7099)␤»
10:20 TiMBuS why do i need to do that? he can do that :v
10:20 jnthn gah
10:20 jnthn nqp: use NQPHLL; my $re := "'(' ~ ')' \\d+"; '(123' ~~ /<$re>/
10:20 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Unable to parse _block77, couldn't find final ')' at line 1␤current instr.: 'nqp;Regex;Cursor;FAILGOAL' pc 3863 (src/Regex/Cursor.pir:239)␤»
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10:35 moritz the test file even usees NQPHLL
10:40 jnthn Oh.
10:40 jnthn moritz: Please file an nqp ticket for it.
10:40 jnthn (In GitHub issues)
10:40 moritz jnthn: will do, after nom
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10:53 jnthn moritz: thanks
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11:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 4cd465c | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
11:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Add a gen_nqp.pl that will obtain and install NQP with the generated Parrot. Also a --gen-nqp flag. We'll probably want to shuffle some of this around a bit at some point; I'll leave that to others with more clue how they want this bit to look. :-)
11:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4cd465c3bb
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11:14 dalek nqp: 6b448c9 | moritz++ | build/Makefile.in:
11:14 dalek nqp: [build] fix previous commit. Where did I have my mind?
11:14 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/6b448c90c1
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11:44 moritz jnthn: please test my latest rakudo/nom commit under windows, I'm always unsure if I broke everything :-)
11:46 dalek rakudo/nom: a5124cb | moritz++ | build/gen_nqp.pl:
11:46 dalek rakudo/nom: [build] avoid code duplication
11:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a5124cb7bf
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12:01 miau Hello. I installed Parrot-3.3.0 and rakudo on Windows XP. When I execute perl6 at the drive where perl6 is not installed, I have an error message: "PARROT VM: Could not load bytecodeCould not load oplib `perl6_ops'". Is it a known problem?
12:03 moritz miau: how did you install rakudo?
12:03 miau moritz: with setup-parrot-3.3.0.exe and setup-parrot-3.3.0-rakudo-40.exe
12:04 moritz I've heard about such errors now and then; in the end I think only the maintainers of the installers can fix that
12:09 miau Hmm, who maintains the installers?
12:09 moritz dunno. Where did you get them from? sourceforge?
12:10 miau from sourceforge.net
12:11 moritz miau: I guess the project there has a bug tracker... if yes, try to use it to send your report
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12:17 miau moritz: Although the project has no bug tracker, there is maintainer's information. I'll report to him. Thank you for your information.
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12:18 takadonet morning all
12:18 moritz miau: thanks for taking care of that
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12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 48cf054 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Few small twiddles to Perl6::Grammar to make new NQP happy with it. (Missing use statement, accidental nested class, and self handling, for the most part. First two are actually making this correcter Perl 6. :-)
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/48cf054e7b
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 7d2a1cf | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Twiddle Actions to work with new NQP (missing use statement, accidental nested class).
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7d2a1cf6be
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: c5466d6 | jnthn++ | src/perl6.p6:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Stub in a perl6.p6, which is what gets built to perl6.exe.
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c5466d6049
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 7bf87d9 | jnthn++ | Perl6/README:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Perl6 output directory where Perl6::Grammar, Perl6::Actions etc will go.
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7bf87d993c
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 0d766b8 | jnthn++ | build/Makefile.in:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Gut the Makefile. Will add things back into it as we progress.
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d766b8055
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: 101c7ed | jnthn++ | .gitignore:
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: Update .gitignore.
12:40 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/101c7ed3e8
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12:40 jnthn OK, from how on rakudo/nom is construction zone. :)
12:40 jnthn *now
12:41 colomon \o/
12:41 colomon So.... any objections to 5 % i == NaN?
12:42 jnthn Oh my... :)
12:42 colomon I'm torn whether it should be that or a Fail...
12:42 jnthn We feed in an Int and a Complex and get a Num out :)
12:42 moritz fail() pleae
12:42 jnthn fail() makes sense to me also
12:43 jnthn moritz: Thanks for tweaking gen_nqp :)
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12:43 moritz jnthn: np
12:43 colomon Is there ever a case where NaN is an appropriate answer, given the availability of fail?
12:43 colomon (I mean, for any math function.)
12:44 * moritz guesses NaN should be a fail()ure, not a Num
12:45 moritz whoa, rakudo even builds on the nom branch
12:46 colomon moritz: is it still using the other nqp there?
12:46 moritz colomon: dunno
12:46 moritz it parsefails 'say 3', and ./perl6 -e '3' says "Unable to obtain PAST from SixModelObject"
12:46 moritz but that's what you expect from such a branch :-)
12:47 moritz colomon: nope, uses the new nqp
12:49 moritz ah
12:49 moritz the compiler uses
12:50 moritz $I0 = isa ast, ['PAST';'Node']
12:51 moritz but gets a SixModelObject
12:51 jnthn moritz: Nothing will work :)
12:51 moritz jnthn: I know, it's just fun to see in what way it breaks :-)
12:51 jnthn :)
12:51 jnthn moritz: It compiles grammar and actions with new nqp now, and perl6.p6 also.
12:52 colomon fun?  it's downright exciting!
12:52 jnthn Whether they actually run and doing anything useful is another matter though :)
12:58 colomon > 5 % i
12:58 colomon Int() infix:<%> Complex() is not defined
12:58 colomon better?
12:59 moritz colomon: that reads a bit bumpy
12:59 moritz how about "complex modolus (Int % Complex) not defined"?
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12:59 colomon rakudo: say Int.WHAT
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13:00 p6eval rakudo 42dcfd: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
13:00 moritz rakudo: say Int.WHAT.perl
13:00 p6eval rakudo 42dcfd: OUTPUT«Int␤»
13:00 colomon danke
13:01 colomon moritz: errr... complex modulus isn't an appropriate part of the message, it's a generic message
13:01 colomon "modolus (Int % Complex) not defined"?
13:01 moritz better
13:01 colomon only with correct speeling?
13:01 moritz colomon: what other cases (not involving Complex) exist?
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13:02 colomon I'm not 100% sure.  But this is defined on Numeric, not Complex
13:02 colomon certainly users might define other cases that don't work
13:02 moritz .oO( un-Real modulo not defined )
13:02 moritz right
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13:10 colomon > 5 % i
13:10 colomon modulus (Int % Complex) not defined
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13:12 colomon spectesting...
13:13 jnthn .oO( is Unreal Tournament a complex game? )
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13:20 moritz nqp: my $x; :$x;
13:20 p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Confused at line 1, near ":$x;"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 26677 (src/stage2/gen/NQPHLL.pir:7099)␤»
13:21 jnthn Don't think nqp knows those short colonpair forms
13:22 moritz that's what I checked :-)
13:28 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
13:28 moritz good morning pmichaud
13:28 takadonet pmichaud: morning
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13:29 dalek nqp: 026eb76 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
13:29 dalek nqp: start rewriting HLL::Compiler.parse in nqp
13:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/026eb767a2
13:29 dalek nqp: d63b1e1 | moritz++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
13:29 dalek nqp: finish rewriting HLL::Compiler.parse in nqp
13:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d63b1e1cca
13:29 dalek nqp: 5359d2b | moritz++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
13:29 dalek nqp: update bootstrap
13:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5359d2b87a
13:29 jnthn pmichaud: morning o/
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13:36 dalek nqp: a954a63 | jonathan++ | src/ModuleLoader.pm:
13:36 dalek nqp: Make global merging slightly less dumb.
13:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/a954a63d18
13:36 dalek nqp: 4abbac4 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
13:36 dalek nqp: Update bootstrap.
13:36 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/4abbac405e
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 5389a40 | jnthn++ | src/perl6.p6:
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Uncomment use of Perl6::Actions, now global merging is improved a bit.
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5389a4038e
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: 63c9801 | jnthn++ | src/s1_setting.pir:
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove now-unused file; we won't build two stages of compiler any more.
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/63c98018ad
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14:05 tadzik hello zebras
14:05 tadzik oh, good things happening :)
14:08 moritz \o
14:11 jnthn o/ tadzik
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14:22 moritz the remaining PIR code in HLL::Compiler is mostly scary
14:24 * jnthn PIRs at it timidly
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14:25 moritz the code in command_line conditionally sets a push_eh, or maybe not
14:25 moritz how do you emulate that in Perl 6? put the contents into a closure, and call it inside or outside a try { } block?
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: d58f6a3 | jnthn++ | build/gen_ (2 files):
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Toss a couple of build scripts we'll not need (or at least not in this form).
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d58f6a3ada
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: a04f6bf | jnthn++ | build/ (2 files):
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Simplify gen_core_pm.pl, then just rename it to indicate it's a generic way to merge multiple .pm files into one.
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a04f6bf7cb
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 43d946a | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/Naming.pm:
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Naming fix.
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/43d946a6ce
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 45e311e | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/PackageHOW.pm:
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Add a PackageHOW.
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/45e311e0ee
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 680368a | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ModuleHOW.pm:
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Another naming fix.
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/680368a069
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 6a271b4 | jnthn++ | build/Makefile.in:
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Start building up Perl6::Metamodel.
14:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6a271b4c48
14:27 tadzik hey, I haven't build the previous one yet! :)
14:27 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
14:28 tadzik jnthn: things are expected to be broken, si?
14:28 moritz tadzik: the previous one didn't allow you to do very much
14:29 tadzik well, make test ended in NPA in find_method('new')
14:29 tadzik I suppose it might be due to a lack of settings, no?
14:29 moritz due to the lack of current general sanity :-)
14:29 tadzik I'm excited anyway :)
14:32 jnthn tadzik: Yes, very broken. :)
14:32 moritz it can still parse simple expressions
14:32 jnthn Oh, nice :)
14:32 moritz and funciton calls
14:32 moritz but no listops
14:33 jnthn Right, the whole notion of symbol table is changing, and listops depend on that.
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14:34 jnthn My plan at the moment is to get some basic meta-objects in place, then build an extremely minimal setting, then work on symbol table and package creation refactors.
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14:37 dalek rakudo: 6ae3c92 | colomon++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
14:37 dalek rakudo: Remove trailing blank lines.
14:37 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6ae3c921d1
14:37 colomon git fail on the commit message there, sigh.
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14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: 6d142ac | jnthn++ | / (6 files):
14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: Correct various compile errors in sketched out meta-objects and include them in Perl6::Metamodel.
14:56 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6d142ac670
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15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 551fc57 | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Sketch out very initial bootstrappy bit in CORE.setting and add building it to the makefile. Doesn't actually build yet.
15:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/551fc57438
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15:39 sorear good * #perl6
15:40 moritz \o sorear
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15:42 colomon o/
15:42 jnthn ohhai
15:42 tadzik o|
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15:45 dalek nqp: bbd4b88 | jonathan++ | / (4 files):
15:45 dalek nqp: Factor NQP-specific bits out of HLL::SerializationContextBuilder so that we can use it also in Rakudo.
15:45 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bbd4b886e3
15:45 dalek nqp: 120ff08 | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
15:45 dalek nqp: Update bootstrap.
15:45 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/120ff083db
15:45 risou joined #perl6
15:46 jnthn walk &
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16:25 jnthn back
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16:29 tadzik . o O ( walk & back )
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17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: 85da19e | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Compiler/ (3 files):
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove some files that were part of old way of doing classes/packages.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/85da19e69f
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: a76dfc1 | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Add Perl6::SymbolTable, which will manage the symbol table and compile time meta-objects.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a76dfc14a5
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: c9012bf | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Toss a bunch of the existing symbol table handling, which will be replaced.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c9012bff2c
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: fcb441b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Start to fill out some symbol table management bits.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fcb441b44c
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: e30b924 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: Some initial symbol management setup at the start of the compilation unit.
17:43 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e30b924b85
17:51 tadzik May the 4th be with you!
17:53 wamba joined #perl6
17:54 jnthn <groan>
17:54 jnthn tadzik++
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17:56 tadzik I almost missed it!
17:56 alester joined #perl6
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18:03 jnthn Then you'd have had to wait a whole year to make it again!
18:03 tadzik Last year I had to!
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18:20 moritz rakudo: role A { method c() { ... } }; role B { method c() { say "B::C" } }; class S does A does B { }; S.new.c
18:20 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'c' collides and a resolution must be provided by the class␤»
18:20 moritz jnthn: should method stubs conflict with non-stubs?
18:21 jnthn no
18:21 jnthn that should be a requirement
18:21 jnthn e.g. if S didn't end up with a c then it'd complain
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18:22 jnthn Will be re-doing roles in nom anyway, so can try and deal with it then.
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18:39 fglock rakudo: if 1 { 123;; }
18:39 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9:  ( no output )
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18:40 fglock rakudo: say do if 1 { 123;; }
18:40 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«123␤»
18:41 fglock I wonder if the last statement is empty, the return value should be undef?
18:46 moritz there is no undef
18:47 fglock rakudo: say do if 1 { ;; }
18:47 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«␤»
18:47 moritz if at all, Nil
18:48 jnthn Could conceivably be Nil.
18:48 jnthn iirc, Rakudo just strips empty statements out at the moment.
18:50 fglock I wrote this by mistake in Perlito, and I've got an error - but I don't know what the correct behaviour would be
18:50 fglock (123 or Nil)
18:50 moritz niecza: say do if 1 { 123;; }
18:50 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«␤»
18:50 fglock hmm
18:50 moritz niecza: say (do if 1 { 123;; }).WHAT
18:50 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«␤»
18:50 moritz niecza: say (do if 1 { 123;; }).perl
18:51 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«␤»
18:51 fglock :P
18:51 sorear hrm
18:51 sorear niecza: say (do if 1 { 123;; }).typename
18:51 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Parcel␤»
18:51 sorear so I gess Nil
18:52 sorear I thought niecza stripped out empty statements, fiwiw
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18:52 sorear niecza: say (do if 1 { 123; }).typename
18:52 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«Num␤»
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19:04 * colomon is watching fan-made lightsaber battles on youttube.com
19:04 tadzik (:
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19:21 masak #perl6! \o/
19:22 jnthn masak! \o/
19:22 masak lol hi from a train!
19:22 fglock masak: hi!
19:23 jnthn masak: look out...tunnel!
19:23 masak you'll know a real tunnel is coming when I drop out from IRC.
19:24 masak in other news, I suggest we abolish all nation borders. they're extremely silly.
19:24 jnthn :P
19:24 jnthn +1
19:24 jnthn ;)
19:24 jnthn Or just visas :)
19:24 tadzik visas--
19:24 masak visas are nation borders' prophet, reifying the silliness in unnecessary quantities.
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19:29 masak` joined #perl6
19:30 masak` that... might've been a tunnel.
19:30 masak` I made gcd() return Int yesterday. been thinking it should be fail("Cannot take gcd of nothing") instead.
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19:34 masak`` this is more than enough backticks, thank you very much.
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19:35 dalek specs: a29e387 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
19:35 dalek specs: [S32/Exceptions] move %.payload into a separate class, based on feedback by sorear++
19:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a29e38794a
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19:40 masak`` is now known as masak
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19:41 jnthn .oO( he got ticked off with 'em... )
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19:46 sorear hello masak
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19:47 masak hi sorear.
19:47 masak I think some people here on-channel might appreciate the approach to language and linguistics in http://www.jsoftware.com/help/user/contents.htm
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19:57 masak rakudo: sub look-and-say { (.chars ~ .substr(0, 1) for $^n.comb: /(.)$0*/).join }; .say for (1, { .&look-and-say } ... *)[^10]
19:57 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«1␤11␤21␤1211␤111221␤312211␤13112221␤111​3213211␤31131211131221␤13211311123113112211␤»
19:57 masak \o/
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20:03 masak rakudo: sub look-and-say { (.chars ~ .comb[0] for $^n.comb: /(.)$0*/).join }; .say for (1, { .&look-and-say } ... *)[^10]
20:03 p6eval rakudo 6ae3c9: OUTPUT«1␤11␤21␤1211␤111221␤312211␤13112221␤111​3213211␤31131211131221␤13211311123113112211␤»
20:04 masak maybe we should start recommending $s.comb[@slice] to people who clamor for $s[@slice] .
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20:06 sorear masak: nooooo
20:06 masak ;)
20:06 jnthn Efficient. ;)
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20:07 sorear Larry said to me once that Str had to support O(1) random access
20:07 sorear when I was grilling him on NFG issues
20:07 masak of course, it doesn't work if you want rvalue behavior.
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20:09 jnthn $foo.substr(0, each(@slice)) gives you a junction of all of the things you want to replace
20:09 jnthn And substr gives back something that's an lvalue, iirc
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20:10 jnthn Maybe something can be fashioned out of that :)
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20:10 sorear You don't think lvalue substr is insane?
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20:10 jnthn sorear: I think it's int he spec, though I guess that's a different issue ;)
20:11 PerlJam sorear: why do you think lvalue substr is insane?
20:12 masak I don't mind lvalue substr, but I don't really believe implementations will provide it.
20:12 Juerd lvalue substr is great. I want lvalue regex matches too.
20:12 PerlJam Juerd++
20:12 Juerd substr(...) =~ s/// is fantastic
20:13 masak ooh!
20:13 Juerd /.../g =~ s/// would be insanely nice.
20:13 masak now *that* I can get behind!
20:13 jnthn Darn, there goes my hope of not needing to implement it. :P
20:13 Juerd (Although Perl 6 regexes are probably powerful enough by themselves to make /.../g =~ s/// seem silly.)
20:14 sorear I'll add lvalue substr to Niecza later todya
20:14 Juerd itym toldya ;)
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20:16 sorear Juerd: the problm with /.../g is like this
20:16 sorear my $foo = "abba"; ($foo ~~ m:g/a/) »~~« s/a/cc/;
20:17 sorear first, m:g/a/ makes slices [0] and [3]
20:17 sorear after the first replacement, $foo is "ccbba"
20:17 sorear does the second replacement produce "ccbcca"?
20:18 sorear since [3] doesn't mean what it used to...
20:18 Juerd That's not a very open minded approach to offsets
20:19 Juerd I'm thinking of multi-user text editors that did somehow manage to solve this problem. Etherpad, subetha, Google Docs..
20:19 sorear multi-user text editors have very heavyweight marks
20:20 Juerd Instead of the discoupled number you'd need to think of the offset as bound to the string. Whenever the string changes, the offset might have to change too. It's no longer just a number.
20:20 sorear the variable has to have backreferences to the marks if it's going to update them
20:20 Juerd I'm sure that having a way to alias a substring even if it's moved within the string, is useful for many things.
20:20 sorear that means creating weak references in &substr
20:20 Juerd Same goes for array slices, by the way.
20:20 sorear which is... unacceptable
20:21 sorear etherpad is probably looking at a half dozen cursors
20:21 sorear it's entirely reasoable for a Perl 6 program to call substr a million times
20:21 Juerd That's just one way of implementing it...
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20:21 sorear if you have a better idea, by all means share.
20:22 PerlJam sorear: what are [0] and [3] from your example before?
20:22 sorear PerlJam: slice indexes
20:22 Juerd I can imagine substrings being dynamically created properties of the string objects, to which you can refer.
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20:23 Juerd The original string can't be fully destroyed until all of its substrings are no longer referenced
20:23 PerlJam sorear: what sort of indexes exactly?  indexes into what?  what units are these indexes?
20:23 Juerd You could clean up unused portions, though
20:24 Juerd PerlJam: I'm assuming character offsets
20:24 PerlJam Don't we have the same "problem" you just describe without lvalue substr because of unicode and the ability to switch between byteoffsets and codepoints and such at will ?
20:24 Juerd I think you do.
20:24 sorear no
20:25 PerlJam no?
20:25 Juerd Unless you want to keep counting from 0 each time you use an offset...
20:25 Juerd In some cases keeping a list of offsets and updating it will be faster, in some cases recalculating them will be faster. The threshold is probably a few MB.
20:26 Juerd But multi-MB strings aren't so rare anymore.
20:26 masak cf genomes.
20:26 masak or Java source code :P
20:26 Juerd Java source code is best destroyed line by line.
20:26 masak yes, but like water, it doesn't compress well.
20:26 sorear Juerd: No Perl 6 implementor has the ability to hook into the garbage collector like that
20:27 Juerd Begin at the end for performance reasons.
20:27 Juerd sorear: ...yet :)
20:28 masak "maybe the things that haven't landed by now really were pipe dreams" -- quoted because you didn't hear me say that.
20:28 Juerd afk
20:29 sorear If we're willing to give up the ability to process 20MB log files with Perl, a lot of the shiny stuff becomes reasonable
20:29 masak that sounds like a trade-off we don't want to make either way.
20:30 masak Perl 6 is all about the shiny stuff *and* the 20MB log files.
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20:34 flussence .oO( big strings should get special treatment internally, after all big numbers do... )
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20:38 PerlJam flussence: it's not even big strings that are a problem IMHO.   what happens when you start with "abba" and substitute a multi-byte character for each "a"?  IS the first step to recognize this and transform "abba" into a packed array of characters each as wide as the one you're substituting?  Or do you do something smarter?  :)
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20:50 flussence hm, thinking about it, making fast unicode strings seems to have most of the obstacles making a fast filesystem does. And given how many people are still trying to do *that* I should probably stop pretending I have anything useful to add :)
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20:56 moritz there's a reason some libraries implement strings as trees
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21:07 masak moritz: yes, but does it make sense as the default Str implementation in Perl 6?
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21:08 masak it's not a rethorical question; I truly would like to know.
21:08 moritz more sense for what?
21:08 sorear ask not the default string implementation; ask the features we expect of it
21:08 masak sorear++
21:09 sorear in other words, what primitive methods do we need in the Str role?
21:09 masak I guess that's the question that needs to be answered in depth before we move on to implementation, yeah.
21:09 sorear also, what functions do we need in Scalar?
21:09 sorear Str is immutable, anything that tracks "changes" in a string would need to go in Scalar
21:10 masak offhand, I think Str is a bit like Array; people will have conflicting, overlapping demands on it. a reasonable compromise between common uses will need to be found.
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21:11 dalek niecza: ac88a90 | sorear++ | Makefile:
21:11 dalek niecza: Use Makefile to control building of compiler modules
21:11 dalek niecza:
21:11 dalek niecza: This will 1. make builds a bit slower 2. make them use less
21:11 dalek niecza: memory 3. make -j work, most of the time
21:11 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ac88a90247
21:12 * moritz found the parrot switch to immutable strings quite interesting
21:13 moritz immutable, non-tree strings that is
21:13 moritz things generally got a bit faster
21:13 moritz except that algorithms using lots of concatenations needed to be adapted to the new StringBuilder
21:13 scdr is now known as starcoder
21:13 sorear Is there going to be a spec StringBuilder, I wonder?
21:13 moritz because the old approach of just appending short strings to the one ever-growing string
21:14 moritz got much slower
21:14 moritz sorear: don't think so
21:14 sorear TimToady seems to think that Str will use a rope representation in limiting cases
21:14 moritz sorear: join() uses it under the hood
21:14 moritz (in rakudo and parrot at least)
21:14 sorear which is only a constalogarithmic factor slower than StringBuilder
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21:15 moritz or maybe Cat can be abused as a stringbuilder?
21:15 sorear pushing strings onto an @array then calling @array.join at the end is almost as good, yeah
21:15 sorear I should probably change niecza's join to not be O(n^2) :)
21:16 moritz :-)
21:16 sorear niecza: join("", ("ab" xx 10000)).substr(101,1).say
21:16 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«b␤»
21:16 sorear niecza: join("", ("ab" xx 100000)).substr(101,1).say
21:16 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
21:17 sorear niecza: &infix:<~>(|["ab" xx 100000]).substr(101,1).say # this, however, DOES use stringbuilders
21:17 p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«b␤»
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23:22 cheako Hello, I've been banned from #perl for the last year and I was wondering if I can get some help from ne1 who uses CGI::Session?
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23:23 cheako It's always returning undef on me.
23:25 Tene cheako: I'm not aware of any ports of CGI::Session to Perl 6; sorry.
23:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 9d136fa | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (3 files):
23:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Eliminate @BLOCK in actions in favor of using Perl6::SymbolTable. Before we've often ended up splitting the symbol table stuff between grammar and actions, meaning that just getting a parse was easily broken. Now that stuff will mostly be handled in Perl6::SymbolTable.
23:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9d136fa4a7
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23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 4ba60a8 | jnthn++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Update nom branch roadmap; some bits are done, some plans are changed.
23:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4ba60a8aac
23:36 jnthn sleep &
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