Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-19

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 sorear arnsholt: pong
00:04 phenny sorear: 18 May 17:57Z <arnsholt> tell sorear I'm read Devanagari (of the Sanskrit variety, slightly different rules than the Hindi one) and Wikpedia-familiar with Arabic script. What do you need to know?
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00:11 sorear pmichaud: where are sin.p6 &c from?  I'd like to make niecza run them :>
00:11 sorear arnsholt: I think I really need a native user of an abugida, since my question is as much cultural as technical
00:12 * whiteknight has to look up "abugida" in wikipedia
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00:13 sorear arnsholt: I want to know if a native Devanagari user would expect, for instance, substr() to treat consonant clusters as a unit
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00:28 TimToady sorear: we don't really have to worry about that unless Unicode defines that in their language independent support level
00:28 TimToady and if someone says "use Devanagari;" then it's whoever writes that module that worries about it
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00:31 TimToady default grapheme support in Perl 6 is *not* language dependent
00:31 arnsholt sorear: That's a good question, but I think the right semantics for substr on Devanagari would be to no treat each syllable as atomic
00:31 arnsholt They certainly aren't at the Unicode level, or at the language level
00:32 sorear TimToady: I'm putting myself in the role of someone writing use Devanagari;
00:32 sorear TimToady: or rather use Hindi
00:32 arnsholt (Of course there's a lot of shenanigans going on in Sanskrit with sandhi and stuff, but that's linguistics, not character set)
00:32 sorear TimToady: I think that the longer we put off thinking about language support modules, the harder it'll be
00:33 sorear tadzik: ping
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00:33 sorear tadzik: use Polish; "czas".comb.perl.say # ?
00:33 sorear wikipedia thinks "cz" is a polish letter
00:34 TimToady it just seems to me like NFG with slightly different "grapheme faking" rules
00:35 TimToady in the same sense that "ch" is an English letter
00:36 TimToady as far as the linguistics goes, it's just a digraph, though of course cultures can differ on collation rules
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00:45 TimToady anyway, yes, it's an interesting problem, but also sort of an open-ended problem, so I'd also to keep in mind that merely doing language-independent graphemes instead of codepoints would be raising the state of the art considerably
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00:48 pmichaud sorear: they're in the bench subdirectory of the rpbench repository
00:48 pmichaud (getting url)
00:49 pmichaud https://github.com/pmichaud/rpbench/tree/master/bench
00:49 sorear thanks
00:49 pmichaud any modules they need are in https://github.com/pmichaud/rpbench/tree/master/files (for now, I may switch to a lib/ subdir)
00:49 pmichaud I was thinking of adding niecza to the tests as well
00:51 sorear running sin.t is probably a ways off yet
00:51 pmichaud okay
00:51 pmichaud anyway, I'd be very interested in adding niecza to this mix whenever you think we're getting close to that
00:51 pmichaud in fact, that's part of the reason I switch from "rakbench" to "rpbench", so it's not so obviously rakudo-oriented
00:52 pmichaud *switched
00:52 pmichaud I figure I can come up with lots of things to put in for 'r' and 'p' that don't have to be 'Rakudo' and 'Parrot" :-)
00:53 sorear I guess full numerics should be my top priority
00:53 sorear I wonder how long I can get away without a Numeric role
00:53 pmichaud rakudo got along for quite a while w/o one :)
00:54 pmichaud of course, that was before Perl 6 really had one either, which made it easier.  might be much harder now.
00:54 sorear I wonder if making 'class Numeric is Cool {} class Num is Numeric {}' would be a useful cheat
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00:54 sorear (because niecza's role support is still extremely limited)
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01:02 sorear TimToady: I wonder if we should draw a (typological or other) distinction between codepoint-strings and grapheme-strings
01:02 sorear much as we currently distinguish Buf and Str; byte operations on Str require an encoding
01:20 sorear on the other hand, if we kept all strings in codepoint form, we could mostly fake grapheme operations
01:21 sorear except for === (don't use that unless you truly care about NF)
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01:43 dalek rakudo: c691cf8 | pmichaud++ | docs/ChangeLog:
01:43 dalek rakudo: Add more items to ChangeLog in preparation for 2011.05 release.
01:43 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c691cf820a
01:43 dalek rakudo: a2ff555 | pmichaud++ | Configure.pl:
01:43 dalek rakudo: No longer need to pass explicit --gc=gms to parrot Configure.pl; it's now the default.
01:43 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a2ff555f31
01:43 dalek rakudo: 7b648fa | pmichaud++ | .gitignore:
01:43 dalek rakudo: RAKBENCH is now RPBENCH in .gitignore.
01:43 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7b648fa80a
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03:42 dalek std: 34fe626 | larry++ | STD.pm6:
03:42 dalek std: allow "@(stuff)" to interpolate
03:42 dalek std: review: https://github.com/perl6/std/commit/34fe626dd1
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04:21 sorear Does $a.substr($b) use $b.Numeric, or is it actually something more like $b.Int?
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04:26 tadzik sorear: 'c', 'z', 'a', 's' I would say
04:26 tadzik letters are letters
04:26 tadzik 'cz' is a...
04:26 tadzik phenny: "głoska"?
04:26 phenny tadzik: Language guessing failed, so try suggesting one!
04:26 tadzik phenny: pl "głoska"?
04:26 phenny tadzik: "phone" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
04:26 sorear phoneme?
04:26 tadzik not sure
04:27 tadzik I don't know the english equivalent
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04:27 tadzik wikipedia is wrong then, 'cz' is not a letter
04:27 sorear well I read about it on the "Digraph" page
04:27 tadzik the non-standard letters are ą, ę, ć, ź, ż, ń, ł, ó
04:30 dalek specs: 138c685 | sorear++ | S32-setting-library/Numeric.pod:
04:30 dalek specs: s/principle/principal/
04:30 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/138c685ede
04:53 jdhore I'm going to release at about 5:30AM EST
04:53 jdhore Can anyone think of a good PM name to use?
04:54 tadzik the fundamental problem of releases
04:54 tadzik what pm group do you originate from?
04:55 jdhore mine's been used. New York
04:55 tadzik YAPC::Russia was in Moscow, right?
04:56 tadzik yeah, looks so
04:56 jdhore yep
04:57 jdhore 2010-04-22   Rakudo #28 "Moscow"             (moritz)
04:57 jdhore dammit
04:58 tadzik sort the contributors by the number of commits, then check for pm group for the topmost ones maybe :)
04:58 tadzik No idea, I don't know about the PM group with a significant Perl 6 contribution recently
05:00 jdhore I suppose I could be lazy and just pick randomly
05:01 tadzik pick some random one, maybe they'll notice and that'd motivate them :)
05:01 jdhore :P
05:01 * perigrin votes for Dahut.pm
05:01 perigrin (but then I'm biased)
05:01 jdhore Where/What is Dahut?
05:02 perigrin Dahut.pm is the group organizing YAPC::NA
05:02 perigrin http://dahut.pm.org
05:02 perigrin They (we?) are non-geographical too
05:03 tadzik oh, like Zebras.pm! *snicker*
05:03 jdhore that actually looks like it might be the best. Technically we are all members of Dahut
05:03 perigrin Less stripey
05:04 tadzik int eresting;
05:04 perigrin tadzik: also you don't get more Random than a Dahut
05:04 tadzik :) fair enough
05:04 perigrin trust me we're pretty tangential and irreverant as a group
05:05 jdhore after ZA.pm in Grahamstown, Eastern Cape, South Africa because the denizens of #perl6 have an unusual facination with zebras and ZA just happens to have a "Z" and, according to my meager research, there are indeed zebras in the area <--- LIES
05:06 tadzik where's that from?
05:06 jdhore the April Rakudo release announcement
05:06 tadzik oh, right
05:06 tadzik what is the LIE here?
05:07 jdhore LIE? Long Island Expressway?
05:07 tadzik dunno, I'm asking :)
05:07 jdhore oh
05:07 jdhore There are no zebras in South Africa
05:07 tadzik that doesn't make the statement a lie.
05:07 jdhore Well, there ARE, but they're in zoos
05:07 perigrin and the fascination is *not* unusual ... zebras are fascinating creatures.
05:08 perigrin jdhore: so you admit that there are zebras in the area ...
05:08 tadzik "according to my meager research" – the research could be wrong, and the statement is absolutely right :)
05:08 jdhore wait wait wait
05:08 jdhore Is there an Antarctica PM group?
05:08 perigrin Not that I'm aware of.
05:08 tadzik ha ha :)
05:08 jdhore shit
05:08 perigrin There were patches from .aq
05:08 jdhore I wanted to make a Penguins joke
05:08 perigrin but I dont' think they have a PM group down there.
05:08 tadzik hehe
05:09 perigrin you could go with PGH.pm then
05:09 tadzik Atlantida.pm?
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07:37 dalek rakudo: dbc29d7 | jdhore++ | docs/announce/2011.05:
07:37 dalek rakudo: Add announcement.
07:37 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dbc29d70ad
07:37 dalek rakudo: da00dd0 | jdhore++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
07:37 dalek rakudo: Update release_guide
07:37 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/da00dd0d85
07:37 dalek rakudo: 3126442 | jdhore++ | VERSION:
07:37 dalek rakudo: [release] bump VERSION
07:37 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3126442599
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07:38 * perigrin blinks
07:39 perigrin I didn't realize release #39 was Orlando
07:41 jdhore perigrin, Are you an Orlando'er?
07:41 perigrin jdhore: I am in theory the leader :)
07:41 * perigrin has his fingers in many pots.
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07:42 jdhore perigrin, ah, nice...I did it sort of as a in-joke of: "RAKUDO 2011.03 IS RELEASED! I'M GOING TO DISNEYLAND!"
07:42 perigrin :D
07:42 perigrin Except well we have Disney *World*
07:43 perigrin California has Disneyland
07:43 perigrin There is a subtle difference ...
07:44 perigrin they have a different Castle for example ... and a parking lot named Mickey ... while we have Minnie and lack the Matterhorn roller coaster
07:44 jdhore perigrin, I always forget. The last time I was at Disneyworld was like 18 years ago
07:45 perigrin We got our kids annual passes for christmas last year
07:45 perigrin I've been *far* too much recently.
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07:48 dalek rakudo: b4a5bb8 | jdhore++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
07:48 dalek rakudo: Fix some minor incorrect stuff in the release_guide.
07:48 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b4a5bb8090
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07:49 jdhore perigrin, The most fun i've had recently is in 2003 when I was visiting family in Boca, my cousin called me at like 7AM asking if i wanted to go to Universal Studios for the day (my brother and my other cousin were already on-board)...I said yes, we drove up, had an awesome day, drove back home at like 10PM
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07:51 jdhore moritz, ping
07:52 moritz jdhore: pong
07:52 jdhore moritz, Can I PLEASE have the June release? I don't usually like to take 2 months in a row like this, but i've got to Douglas Adams-ify Rakudo Release #42
07:53 Su-Shee PerlJam: now this is a very nice regex chapter.. (linked on HN)
07:53 moritz Su-Shee: link?
07:53 moritz jdhore: go right ahead :-)
07:54 jdhore moritz, Thank you :)
07:54 Su-Shee moritz: the regex.pod? https://github.com/perlpilot/perl6-docs/blob/master/intro/p6-regex-intro.pod
07:54 moritz Su-Shee: no, where it was linked on HN
07:54 Su-Shee ah :))
07:56 * moritz even contributed two patches to that document
07:56 Su-Shee moritz: aeh reddit. sorry -> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hed08/in_case_you_didnt_know_perl_6_regex_is_fantastic/
07:57 jdhore I've got 2 regex books and i've read perlretut and perlreintro perlrequick and I still don't understand Regex :(
07:57 moritz jdhore: is one of the books "Mastering Regular Expressions"?
07:58 jdhore moritz, yes it is
07:58 Su-Shee funnily, it was the very first thing I got right and understood when I started learning to program. I have no idea why.
07:58 perigrin jdhore: you should come to the Orlando Perl Workshop ... it's down the street from Universal.
07:58 dalek rakudo: 7860993 | jdhore++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
07:58 dalek rakudo: Assign myself to the June Release.
07:58 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7860993904
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07:59 jdhore perigrin, I'd love to. Problem is I live over 1000 miles away from Orlando.
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07:59 * perigrin is a 9 hour drive from Asheville, that hasn't stopped him from planning a YAPC there.
08:01 moritz general question for rakudo devs and users: what do you think about just giving star releases (or compiler releases used for star) release names?
08:02 moritz I found that finding a good name is the hardest part of a release, and that would decrease the burden
08:02 jdhore I find that part rather fun
08:04 Su-Shee moritz: honestly, I don't care wether a release has a name or not. I'm perfectly fine with "rakudo-november-2010" or "rakudo-star-first-quarter-2010" or something.
08:05 Su-Shee moritz: I'd even install it if you start calling it "rakudo rolling rabbit" and "rakudo rancid rochefort"..
08:06 moritz lol
08:06 jdhore "rakudo oscillating ocelot"
08:06 Su-Shee jdhore: that's not starting with r.. ;)
08:07 jdhore Su-Shee, oh, I see
08:07 Su-Shee well if I think about it.. rakudo rock and roll? ;)
08:07 moritz rakudo rickrolling rock and roll?
08:08 Su-Shee rakudo rick rolling certainly works :)
08:08 Su-Shee rakudo rockabilly rebel
08:08 Su-Shee rakudo reigning rockstar
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10:03 moritz jdhore++ # rakudo release
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10:40 bbkr_ good localtime()!  when I try to build new rakudo release I get "i686-apple-darwin10-g++-4.2.1: c: No such file or directory" in "perl Condigure.pl --gen-parrot" command. does this look familiar to anyone?
10:40 bbkr_ Configure*
10:41 bbkr_ Mac OS 10.6.6., perl 5.12.3 (from ports)
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12:07 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
12:08 pmichaud bbkr_: you've been able to successfully build previous releases?
12:10 takadonet pmichaud: morning
12:11 pmichaud (release names for star) -- I think I'd prefer to keep giving names to compiler releases
12:11 pmichaud we can gives names to star releases also, but I'd prefer that to form a different series :-)
12:11 pmichaud besides, we have plenty of .pm cities to choose from.  We can make it clearer that there doesn't have to be a justification for a name beyond "I picked it from a list"
12:16 bbkr_ pmichaud: 2011-04 fails with the same error (same parrot version I assume). command that follows this failure is "Command failed (status 512): make install-dev".
12:16 pmichaud 2011.04 had a different parrot version
12:17 pmichaud 2011.04 was running parrot 3.3.0
12:17 moritz bbkr_: it sounds like parrot has problems chosing a compiler
12:20 bbkr_ different? 2011.05 release wants to download also parrot 3_3_0
12:21 moritz it should use 3_4_0
12:21 * moritz hasn't actually tried the release
12:21 pmichaud pmichaud@orange:~/perl/rakudo-2011.05$ cat build/PARROT_REVISION
12:21 pmichaud RELEASE_3_4_0
12:21 pmichaud looks correct to me
12:22 pmichaud afk, kid to school
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12:25 bbkr_ 3_4_0 indeed, mac os stupid autoextract after download messed directories :(
12:25 bbkr_ checking truly-new release this time :)
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12:57 bbkr_ 2011.05 release works :)
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12:58 moritz \o/
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13:00 moritz does anybody remember the URL for perlito in the browser, including DOM access?
13:02 sorear good * #perl6
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13:14 tadzik hello sorear
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13:51 PerlJam Su-Shee: I guess I should finish those documents if people are already reading them  :)
13:51 PerlJam (good morning btw)
13:52 Su-Shee PerlJam: das would be a good idea :)
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13:52 Su-Shee PerlJam: sorry that. I'm tired.
13:53 PerlJam Su-Shee: then get some rest!
13:53 * PerlJam DCCS some sleep packets to Su-Shee
13:53 PerlJam Don't take more than 2 of those in 24 hours
13:54 PerlJam otherwise you'll be sleeping all day
13:54 Su-Shee No, it's the afternoon work tiredness.
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13:55 PerlJam Su-Shee: A cure for that would be to go outside, run a short distance  (you decide what's "short"), then come back inside and work.
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13:56 pmichaud siesta!
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14:00 * Su-Shee chooses cake and a cappuchino. ;)
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14:06 isBEKaml arnsholt: (backlogs) Sanskrit? Wow, I'm impressed. :)
14:06 * tadzik chooses siesta
14:07 isBEKaml phenny: tell sorear, if you need any help with Devanagari, I can help - though be aware that I don't use Devanagari in input methods. If you need, another language too in the Dravidian family. (native tongue) :)
14:07 phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
14:08 isBEKaml sorear's solving interesting problems. sorear++
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16:54 pmichaud do I hear crickets chirping?
16:54 colomon your window is open?
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16:54 pmichaud right now I have two windows open
16:54 colomon there you go.
16:55 pmichaud if I press ALT+F4, one closes.
16:55 colomon or do you not have crickets down in Texas?
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16:55 colomon :p
16:55 pmichaud oh, we have crickets.  lots of them.
16:55 pmichaud I was referring to crickets in #perl6 :-)
16:56 colomon I know.  ;)
16:56 colomon what's the status with parrot/zavolaj?
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16:57 pmichaud crickets in texas:  http://www.kens5.com/news/local/Piles-of-cricket-corpses-rot-in-parking-lots-98753599.html
16:58 pmichaud also:  http://weareaustin.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=78535
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16:58 colomon huh.  the picture's not working for me.  though I'm suspecting it's yet another great reason not to live in Texas.  :)
16:59 pmichaud also important: http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/columns/story?id=6217052
16:59 pmichaud oh, wait, wrong kind of cricket  :-)
17:00 pmichaud (but yes, cricket (the sport) is very popular where I live.  They even have dedicated cricket fields at the parks.
17:00 pmichaud annnnnyway
17:00 colomon zavolaj?
17:00 pmichaud afaik, zavolaj (with patches I made on Monday) should be able to work with recent parrot
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17:01 colomon okay, I'll cross my fingers and give it a try
17:01 pmichaud we seemed to be having trouble dealing with null pmcs
17:01 pmichaud but I was also not sure what "correct behavior" is/was
17:01 pmichaud so yes, testing would be very helpful
17:02 pmichaud do you need the patch?
17:02 colomon oh, probably.
17:02 colomon (I need to figure out how to get git back on the main branch instead of back two months.)
17:02 colomon git checkout master?
17:03 pmichaud https://gist.github.com/976023
17:03 benabik colomon: That should do it.
17:03 pmichaud yes, git checkout master should work
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17:04 colomon okay, will try your patch as soon as I have up-to-date master built again
17:04 pmichaud excellent
17:04 colomon any profiling progress?  I apologize for not getting any done myself yet.
17:05 pmichaud I've been working on cleaning up the benchmark suite, mostly
17:06 pmichaud I'm currently running a new set that includes 2011.05 release
17:06 pmichaud looks like I'm about 5 min from completing a set
17:11 pmichaud benchmark results for 2011.05 (kiwi, 8gb): https://github.com/pmichaud/rpbench-results/blob/master/kiwi-x86_64-7994m-201105191411.txt
17:12 risou is now known as risou_awy
17:12 colomon hmmm, PCRE bug is still in there.
17:12 pmichaud ...pcre bug?
17:13 colomon in Parrot
17:13 colomon that's the one I had such trouble reporting last week
17:13 pmichaud yes, but what's the actual bug?
17:14 colomon Failed to load libpcre
17:14 colomon current instr.: 'parrot;PCRE;init' pc 0 (runtime/parrot/library/pcre.pir:57)
17:14 colomon .... # deleted by colomon
17:14 colomon gmake: *** [src/glut_nci_thunks.c] Error 1
17:14 colomon Command failed (status 512): gmake install-dev
17:14 colomon that's during perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot
17:15 pmichaud oh, ouch
17:15 pmichaud is that because you don't have libpcre on your system, maybe?
17:16 colomon as far as I know I have it.
17:16 tadzik to me it started occuring after some pcre update
17:16 tadzik gee, I'm sleepy
17:16 colomon I've got a /opt/local/lib/libpcre.a
17:16 pmichaud how about a .so?
17:17 pmichaud (I can never keep track of .a versus .so anymore)
17:17 colomon I've got a .dylib, which is the os x equivalent of .so, so far as I know.
17:17 pmichaud okay
17:17 colomon anyway, building --without-pcre now
17:17 pmichaud anyway, I was getting a pcre error also -- I ended up doing make realcleans or equivalent and that got around the issue
17:18 pmichaud have you tried building just a "bare parrot"?
17:18 pmichaud i.e., fresh parrot output, see if it builds?
17:18 pmichaud s/parrot output/parrot checkout/
17:18 colomon I've tried fresh parrot directories repeatedly, but I've always tried building it with --gen-parrot
17:19 pmichaud rakudo: say (83/220).Num
17:19 p6eval rakudo 786099: OUTPUT«0.377272727272727␤»
17:19 pmichaud rakudo: say (83/220*60).Num
17:19 p6eval rakudo 786099: OUTPUT«22.6363636363636␤»
17:19 pmichaud maybe just try building a new parrot and see if you still get the error
17:20 pmichaud (is this the same error that led to us trying to get a trac ticket written, and all of that...?)
17:21 pmichaud the ticket is waiting for more details
17:22 pmichaud I'll write some details for the ticket.
17:22 colomon yes, this is that error
17:22 colomon trying to clone parrot now in another tab.  :)
17:23 pmichaud yes, that would be good
17:23 pmichaud let's see if it happens for a standalone parrot build
17:23 risou_awy is now known as risou_
17:23 tadzik colomon: you're on a mac, have you tried Termkit yet?
17:23 risou joined #perl6
17:24 colomon tadzik: I haven't.  In fact, if you poke around in the HN feed on TermKit, you can see me complaining several times that TermKit looked like exactly what I *didn't* want from my terminal.  :)
17:24 tadzik ;)
17:24 pmichaud lol
17:25 tadzik actually, I see more of a 'file-manager-and-everything-but-keyboard-driven' than a terminal in it
17:25 pmichaud I have a keyboard driven file manager.
17:25 tadzik which is exactly something I may want :)
17:25 pmichaud to copy a file, I just type "cp" :-)
17:25 pmichaud to see what files I have, I type "ls" :-)
17:25 tadzik yeah, I do that too :)
17:25 colomon I'm pretty comfortable with the division between terminal and the OS X GUI.
17:26 * moritz wants a terminal that just works normally, but also allows pixel graphics to be printed in the terminal
17:26 pmichaud it took me forever to find a terminal program I liked
17:26 tadzik Recently moved from mutt to kmail and I'm amazed that it can be configured to do almost everything with a keyboard
17:26 colomon If I wanted a change, it would be along the lines of more efficient ways to launch GUI stuff from the terminal.
17:26 moritz a bit like framebuffer under linux, but iirc that only allows fullscreen images
17:26 pmichaud colomon: hotkeys?
17:27 pmichaud or literally from a terminal?
17:27 tadzik colomon: like a desktop shell?
17:27 * tadzik makes a screenshot
17:27 pmichaud I'm completely addicted to my hotkeys.
17:27 colomon literally from the terminal.  In the HN thread, I suggested having an lsf command, which takes ls's syntax but opens a Finder window to display the resulting file list.  :)
17:28 colomon OS X already has "open", which is incredibly handy.
17:28 tadzik that's what xdg-open wants to be, methinks
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17:30 tadzik http://i.imgur.com/bIVyb.png -- a desktop shell. Would be awesome if the responsiveness wouldn't be, well, LTA. I may write something like this which won't suck in the summertime, it's on the Ultimate After-Exams Todo List
17:30 PerlJam you guys are such geeks  ;)
17:30 tadzik ...yes :(
17:31 risou_ left #perl6
17:31 tadzik but geeks turn into knights :)
17:31 risou left #perl6
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17:31 tadzik http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9rkyz4JSa1qzf0hpo1_500.jpg
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17:31 tadzik oh, the off-topic day :)
17:33 PerlJam Perl people are eclectic.  "off topic" almost doesn't make sense
17:34 tadzik shhh, they'll read that in the logs and then come and stab us to death with youtube videos
17:34 colomon pmichaud: pcre build failure happens on a standalone parrot build too.
17:34 pmichaud colomon: okay, good to know.
17:34 pmichaud maybe I can bump the ticket
17:35 Su-Shee ah.. the quest for the perfect gui.. ;)
17:35 pmichaud if we do a star release, we might need to --without-pcre the build, then.
17:37 pmichaud colomon: perhaps you should add your system details to TT#2107, so others can start to reproduce/fix
17:37 colomon pmichaud: I thought that was the purpose of that parrot bug reporting script I ran?
17:37 pmichaud oh, it's there
17:37 pmichaud it's in an attachment, I guess
17:38 colomon yes
17:39 pmichaud I'll bump the ticket priority
17:42 pmichaud actually, I won't
17:42 pmichaud because I can't
17:44 colomon pmichaud: Null PMC access in type() when I try Math::BigInt under the new patched zavolaj
17:44 colomon which is I guess is sort of an improvement.  :)
17:45 pmichaud I should look at Math::BigInt, then
17:45 spq left #perl6
17:45 pmichaud what's the most recent version of rakudo/zavolaj where Math::BigInt worked?
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17:46 colomon It worked under March release.
17:46 colomon I don't think it worked under April.
17:46 pmichaud march release of rakudo?  okay, that helps to know
17:46 colomon pmichaud: The original show-stopped was the "t" type depreciation.
17:46 colomon *stopper
17:47 pmichaud one of the issues I had with working on zavolaj with mysql is that it's a pain to have all of the mysql stuff in the way.  bigint might be much simpler
17:47 pmichaud we've restored a version of 't'
17:47 pmichaud but null pmc handling seems to be a bit of an issue now
17:50 colomon Interesting.  It looks like it's dying when I call the function to free a string I've allocated for the BigDigits C library.
17:50 colomon there shouldn't be a null pointer involved, so far as I know.
17:51 sjohnson yo colomon
17:51 pmichaud if there's a function that returns NULL as a status/error code, it can be an issue
17:51 colomon sub bdSolFree(OpaquePointer $p) is native("libbd") { ... }
17:52 colomon nothing returned at all, so far as I know.
17:52 pmichaud I can't find "libbd"
17:53 pmichaud "binary decision-diagram library?"
17:53 pmichaud no, that's libbdd
17:53 pmichaud hmmmm
17:54 colomon https://github.com/colomon/Math-BigInt  -- look in the readme.  :)
17:55 pmichaud yeah, found it
17:56 pmichaud where's "bigd.c", "bigd.h", etc.?
17:56 colomon yeah, bdSolFree definitely returns void
17:56 pmichaud oh, we fetch it
17:57 colomon http://www.di-mgt.com.au/src/BigDigits.2.2.0.zip
17:57 pmichaud grrrrrr
17:57 colomon well, you have to fetch it by hand, yeah.  And then use the tools in build-BigDigit to get the build.
17:57 colomon what's up?
17:57 pmichaud I don't like zip files that unpack all of the contents into the current directory
17:58 pmichaud (yes, I know, create a directory first... I was being lazy this time)
17:58 colomon I agree, but I think the readme instructions expect you to unpack in the build-BigDigit directory.
17:58 pmichaud I just wanted to look at the source
17:58 colomon yes
17:58 colomon ah
17:58 pmichaud I'm sure you've been asked this already... but why not use libgmp?
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17:59 colomon libgmp doesn't support my build of OS X.
18:00 pmichaud that would be why, then.
18:00 colomon seemed like a very good reason not to use it  :)
18:00 colomon other than that, it's miles beyond BigDigits, I think
18:00 pmichaud yeah, I agree.
18:01 colomon I've been meaning to try to figure out how the heck other portable systems (like Python) support libgmp
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18:04 pmichaud I can't find a bdSolFree function in the bigdigits code
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18:04 colomon right, it's in build-BigDigit in Math-BigInt
18:04 pmichaud oh, maybe I aborted the download
18:04 colomon bigSol.c is the filename
18:04 colomon I think you might be able to guess who wrote it.  ;)
18:05 colomon It's just
18:05 colomon void
18:05 colomon bdSolFree(void *p) {
18:05 colomon free(p);
18:05 colomon }
18:05 pmichaud okay
18:05 pmichaud I'll have to try all of this a bit later when I get home
18:05 colomon I seem to recall there was some annoying conflict if I just called "free" directly.
18:05 pmichaud might be the same conflict :)
18:05 pmichaud but it might also be gone, now
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18:06 colomon It might have been as simple as I didn't figure out that is native("") is zavolaj's way of calling system functions, and so couldn't find a portable way to do it.
18:07 colomon (Dunno if it builds on windows, but Math::BigInt has been tested on OS X and Linux.  :)
18:07 pmichaud it would likely be really good to figure out how to get libgmp support into Rakudo
18:08 colomon huh.  according to the stack trace,         default { -> \$x { $x } }      is the line of crash?
18:08 colomon pmichaud: agree 100% on libgmp and Rakudo
18:08 pmichaud stack trace gets a little weird when dealing with closures
18:08 pmichaud that function returns a closure which is then called later
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18:08 colomon oh, and the closure is the line of the error?
18:08 pmichaud probably
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18:09 pmichaud it's where the null pmc manifests, I think
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18:11 pmichaud anyway, I have to run for a while -- I'll install and look at it all a bit later
18:12 colomon one sec, if you can...
18:12 benabik One of the Parrot GSoC projects is GMP bindings.
18:12 colomon okay, just verified via "say" that the error definitely does appear to be happening in the bdSolFree call
18:13 colomon pmichaud: that's all, I just wanted to double-check on that and get the info to you.
18:13 colomon benabik: oooooooo
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20:12 huf i has cat!
20:12 colomon pet or unix command?
20:12 sjohnson cat5
20:12 colomon errr... ethernet cable or fifth pet?  ;)
20:13 tadzik cat(5)?
20:13 huf pet.
20:13 tadzik achoo!
20:13 colomon \o/
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20:26 tadzik phenny: tell masak http://i.imgur.com/envA5.jpg something you may like :)
20:26 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
20:26 moritz ... but would he eat it? :-)
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20:28 tadzik that's the question :)
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20:49 sjohnson cowland
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21:18 moritz std: /a|;/
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21:18 p6eval std 34fe626: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Semicolon must be quoted at /tmp/HXDYrvvr2h line 1:␤------> [32m/a|;[33m⏏[31m/[0m␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 113m␤»
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22:30 sorear good * #perl6
22:30 phenny sorear: 14:07Z <isBEKaml> tell sorear if you need any help with Devanagari, I can help - though be aware that I don't use Devanagari in input methods. If you need, another language too in the Dravidian family. (native tongue) :)
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22:35 pmurias sorear: hi
22:36 sorear hi.
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