Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:02 * colomon is once again wishing C++ were Perl 6...
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06:13 moritz good morning
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06:19 sorear good morning moritz !!
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06:45 * sorear out
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07:56 tadzik good morning
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12:34 colomon \o
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13:57 sorear good * #perl6
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13:57 mathw good * sorear
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14:28 pmurias sorear: hi
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14:52 sorear hi pmurias
14:52 sorear hi lichtkind
14:52 pmurias sorear: how's niecza doing?
14:53 sorear ok I guess
14:53 sorear it'll be doing much better in a week, after finals
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14:54 pmurias good luck with the finals
14:54 sorear thanks
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15:47 sorear buubot_backup: eval 2 + 2
15:47 buubot_backup sorear: 4
15:47 sorear \o/
15:47 lichtkind sorear: hai
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16:07 clintongormley1 hi all - i'm hoping that somebody with language design experience (<cough>TimToady</cough>) might give me a bit of advice
16:07 clintongormley1 i'm trying to design an SQL::Abstract style interface to send queries to ElasticSearch, a lucene based full text search engine
16:09 clintongormley1 in case you're not familiar, SQL::Abstract parses constructs like { foo=>'bar', num => { '>' => 5}}
16:09 clintongormley1 so there are the obvious operators, like > < != etc
16:10 clintongormley1 but there are a number of other query types, like 'prefix', 'fuzzy' which i'm considering allowing operators for, as opposed to saying { field => {prefix => 'foo'}}
16:10 clintongormley1 here is what i have: https://gist.github.com/a90fc626d4f849b41100
16:11 clintongormley1 and i'm wondering what you think.  do the proposed operators work? or are they too invented, and should i just stick to using words (ie 'prefix', 'wildcard' etc)
16:11 sorear hello clintongormley1.
16:11 clintongormley1 hiya
16:11 sorear who sent you here? :)
16:11 PerlJam I think it's well known that this is a good place to find TimToady
16:11 clintongormley1 sorear: nobody. i know what #perl6 is, but i thought this was the place with the highest concentration of operator experts :)
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16:12 clintongormley1 s/operator/language/
16:12 clintongormley1 i realise this is OT, but hoping for some feedback anyway
16:12 PerlJam Well, in your case, you don't have much of a "language" :)
16:13 clintongormley1 yes, i realise
16:13 PerlJam I assume the | are meta-syntax in your examples.
16:13 clintongormley1 the > | < etc
16:13 clintongormley1 yes, i mean > or < or >=
16:13 PerlJam how do you say "and" and "or" ?
16:14 clintongormley1 in SQL::Abstract, you say it with {} or [], so:
16:14 clintongormley1 { foo => bar, num => 1}  is: foo == bar and num == 1
16:14 PerlJam oh.  I get it.
16:14 clintongormley1 in [] would be or
16:15 clintongormley1 i can support eg the word 'prefix' plus the op, but i'm wondering if the ops are just too unfamiliar to be useful, and would be better left out
16:18 PerlJam clintongormley1: if your users are perl programmers, some of those would be analogous to regex or glob and so make sense I guess.
16:18 clintongormley1 any that you think work, and any that you would dismiss?
16:18 clintongormley1 (and yes, they are Perl users)
16:20 PerlJam I'd probably use '^' for "starts with" and "*" for glob and '~' for full text search.
16:20 PerlJam '~~' doesn't quite do it for me, nor does '*~'
16:20 PerlJam (but that's just me)
16:21 PerlJam (and you could use '$' for "ends with" if you needed it)
16:21 clintongormley1 yep - that one doesn't exist
16:21 clintongormley1 that makes sense - any idea about how to distinguish between 'text' and 'query_string' then?
16:21 clintongormley1 query_string is commonly used, and thus is longer than i'd like
16:23 PerlJam well, maybe just "query" ?
16:23 clintongormley1 yeah, although that is used elsewhere
16:23 clintongormley1 to distinguish between queries (which have their "relevance" scored) and filters, which just ... filter :)
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16:24 PerlJam fuzzy and query_string both want to be text-ish rather than operator-ish in my head.  so, I'd use "fuzzy" and "query"
16:24 PerlJam or perhaps "fts" for query_string
16:25 clintongormley1 ok - yeah that makes sense
16:25 clintongormley1 thanks PerlJam
16:26 PerlJam sure
16:26 PerlJam clintongormley1: Can you do arithmetic on the keys? or is that planned?
16:27 clintongormley1 no
16:27 clintongormley1 neither
16:27 PerlJam okay, that would make a difference to using "*" to mean glob or not
16:27 clintongormley1 right
16:29 PerlJam in fact, to be conservative, you should use "glob" instead to allow for *-as-multiplication  in the future.
16:29 PerlJam But that's your call  :)
16:29 clintongormley1 no, it definitely won't be an option
16:30 clintongormley1 following your logic of query|fuzzy what if i added 'text' in there, and made fuzzy ~
16:31 PerlJam Is there a particular reason you're looking for operator-like names rather than stringy names?
16:31 clintongormley1 just compactness really
16:31 clintongormley1 that's why i wanted a sense check - afraid i was going overboard :)
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16:31 PerlJam Would you have regex as an option in the future?
16:32 clintongormley1 it is a possibility
16:32 clintongormley1 right, so reserve ~ for regex
16:32 PerlJam well, you could use '=~' for regex, but then ~-as-fuzzy wouldn't make as much sense
16:32 PerlJam (IMHO)
16:32 clintongormley1 yeah
16:33 clintongormley1 and really, for fuzzy you have to provide a number of parameters, eg min similarity
16:33 clintongormley1 so making the op a short symbol is probably not worthwhile
16:36 PerlJam The real design trick is to not accidently limit your future options by poor choices today.  TimToady excels at imagining the future, but he's had lots of practice I think  :)
16:36 clintongormley1 heh yeah
16:36 PerlJam (and made lots of mistakes ... thus #perl6 :)
16:36 clintongormley1 again, many thanks. you've helped a lot
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18:03 tadzik hello zebras
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18:51 sorear hey tadzik
18:53 tadzik finals, eh? I'm jealous
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18:57 sorear jealous?
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18:59 sorear why?
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19:09 tadzik mine end on July the 1st
19:09 tadzik 5 weeks after the start of GSoC
19:11 sorear hey, at least you got in
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19:13 tadzik you didn't?
19:14 tadzik I mean, were you trying and didn't get in?
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19:26 sorear tadzik: I was trying but there wasn't a project for me in time
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19:26 sorear possibly relevant: I live a few hundred km south of Google's HQ
19:27 sorear maybe they just looked at all schools within $DISTANCE when they were planning schedules
19:30 tadzik well, looks like it's only Poland which is fscked :)
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19:52 Tene sorear: where do you live?  That sounds like almost a reasonable driving distance from me.
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19:55 sorear Tene: san diego
19:55 sorear suburbs
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20:01 Tene Ah, that's a bit more than a casual drive.  Good to know, though.
20:02 sorear Where are you?
20:03 Tene sunnyvale, so often within walking distance of google HQ
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20:06 sorear nod
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20:31 tylercurtis tadzik: if it makes you feel any better, my finals don't begin until June 6th.
20:32 tadzik thanks, I feel better now :)
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20:37 tylercurtis Fortunately, I'm not taking any courses with final papers this quarter, so finals week shouldn't be too busy.
20:40 tadzik yay, I hacked a kernel module and it still works
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23:53 Moukeddar hello fellows
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