Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-22

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo | Niecza | Specs

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:09 dalek niecza: 3859825 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
00:09 dalek niecza: Switch BigInteger implementation, reduce Rat literals
00:09 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/3859825130
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01:46 dalek niecza: 82e9ec8 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
01:46 dalek niecza: Add coercions from new numbers to double and bool
01:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/82e9ec8daf
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02:56 sorear rakudo: say (6 / 3).WHAT
02:56 p6eval rakudo 4398a2: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
02:56 sorear Is this correct?
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02:57 sorear welcome, aks.  New here?
02:57 Garda hugme: hug sorear
02:57 Garda no hugme bot?
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03:31 sorear my biggest complaint with C# is a failure to borrow C++'s functional cast syntax
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03:55 sorear rakudo: say 5i % 2i
03:55 p6eval rakudo 4398a2: OUTPUT«modulus (Complex % Complex) not defined␤»
03:55 sorear rakudo: say 5i % 2
03:55 p6eval rakudo 4398a2: OUTPUT«modulus (Complex % Int) not defined␤»
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04:32 moritz \o
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04:33 moritz hugme: hug me
04:33 * hugme hugs moritz
04:38 sorear odd
04:38 sorear dalek quit for no reason
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04:54 dalek niecza: 9788237 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
04:54 dalek niecza: Secondary fixes revealed by (regression testing)++
04:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/97882373c9
05:05 sorear pugs: FatRat
05:05 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&FatRat"␤    at /tmp/pEkApilTGL line 1, column 1 - line 2, column 1␤»
05:05 sorear pugs: Rat
05:05 p6eval pugs:  ( no output )
05:07 sorear no /FatRat/ in my mu checkout either
05:07 moritz FatRat is much newer than pugs' last patches
05:07 sorear does any implementation except niecza have it yet?
05:08 moritz no
05:09 sorear \o/
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05:09 sorear I guess?
05:10 * sorear still needs to make niecza's FatRat and Complex types usable
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05:29 dalek niecza: b48708f | sorear++ | lib/Builtins.cs:
05:29 dalek niecza: Make -, *, /, % type-aware
05:29 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b48708fb30
05:29 sorear niecza: say 39549590295082340582305802338 + 29349934
05:29 p6eval niecza v5-37-g9788237: OUTPUT«39549590295082340582335152272␤»
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05:46 dalek niecza: 0346395 | sorear++ | lib/Builtins.cs:
05:46 dalek niecza: Type-aware comparison operators
05:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0346395b2d
05:59 dalek niecza: 4c03af8 | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
05:59 dalek niecza: Remove many superfluous uses of Num from the C# code
05:59 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4c03af8ed6
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06:32 tadzik phenny: tell jnthn t/p6regex/01-regex.t fail: http://wklej.org/id/533239/
06:32 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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06:57 sorear niecza: say ((1 / 0x1_0000_0000) * (1 / 0x1_0000_0000))
06:57 p6eval niecza v5-40-g4c03af8: OUTPUT«5.42101086242752E-20␤»
06:58 sorear niecza: given ((1 / 0x1_0000_0000) * (1 / 0x1_0000_0000)) { .say; .WHAT.say }
06:58 p6eval niecza v5-40-g4c03af8: OUTPUT«5.42101086242752E-20␤Num()␤»
06:58 sorear niecza: given ((FatRat.succ / 0x1_0000_0000) * (1 / 0x1_0000_0000)) { .say; .WHAT.say }
06:58 p6eval niecza v5-40-g4c03af8: OUTPUT«1/18446744073709551616␤FatRat()␤»
06:58 sorear \o/
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07:05 sorear moritz, diakopter: Would you mind if I ran a continuous integration script on host04?  (it would basically be like what p6eval is already doing, except also running spectests and the bootstrappability test and reporting the results)
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08:37 moritz sorear: just take care of load/memory usage
08:38 dalek specs: e1801df | moritz++ | S05-regex.pod:
08:38 dalek specs: [S05] fix a fossile (though the whole section looks pretty fossile-ish)
08:38 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/e1801df93c
08:38 dalek specs: b52825b | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
08:38 dalek specs: [Exceptions] stub out Failure and Backtrace
08:38 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/b52825bf5f
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10:12 tadzik hrm. Actions.pm is Nqp, not Perl6, right?
10:12 sorear right
10:13 tadzik fun. So writing action methods for Rakudo will be a bit different than for a Perl 6 module
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10:14 sorear btw
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10:14 jnthn tadzik: Yeah, but it's a subset.
10:14 phenny jnthn: 06:32Z <tadzik> tell jnthn t/p6regex/01-regex.t fail: http://wklej.org/id/533239/
10:14 sorear niecza: my Int $x = 495394393904582058028505238; $x++; say $x
10:14 p6eval niecza v5-40-g4c03af8: OUTPUT«495394393904582058028505239␤»
10:15 sorear perl6: my Int $x = 495394393904582058028505238; $x++; say $x
10:15 tadzik jnthn: yeah, I know that. But in Actions.pm I'm no longer doing Pod6::Block.new, but some Past::Op instead, creating the Pod6::Block, si?
10:15 p6eval pugs, niecza v5-40-g4c03af8: OUTPUT«495394393904582058028505239␤»
10:15 p6eval ..rakudo 4398a2: OUTPUT«Type check failed for assignment␤    Container type: Int␤               Got: Num␤  in '&infix:<=>' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 7654:CORE.setting␤»
10:15 tadzik sorear: nice!
10:16 jnthn tadzik: I can't answer that without knowing more about what you want to do.
10:17 tadzik jnthn: I need to move this https://github.com/tadzik/gsocmess/​blob/master/lib/Pod6/Actions.pm#L40 to Rakudo Actions.pm, and likely push those Blocks to some $POD variable
10:18 sorear tadzik: it has Rat and FatRat and Complex too, though the latter two are hard to use.
10:18 jnthn tadzik: What's the intention? That these things are available at runtime?
10:19 tadzik jnthn: yes, I need to test them
10:19 tadzik test that the parsing did a good job
10:19 tadzik jnthn: I have the tests for the outside code, but I'd like to know if that still works when I moved it inside Rakudo
10:20 jnthn tadzik: Is the POD normally made available at runtime?
10:20 tadzik jnthn: yes, through a $=POD variable
10:21 jnthn tadzik: Where can I read more about it?
10:21 tadzik jnthn: S26
10:25 jnthn tadzik: OK. So $=POD is essentially per compilation unit, it seems.
10:26 tadzik I think so
10:26 jnthn std: say $=POD;
10:26 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
10:26 jnthn std: say $=WTF;
10:26 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
10:26 jnthn hm :)
10:26 sorear $=WTF is totally legit
10:26 jnthn sorear: What does it mean?
10:26 sorear it refers to a =begin WTF block in the file
10:26 sorear or something like that
10:27 sorear S29 was rather handwavey on the subject iirc
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10:27 jnthn sorear: And...if there's more than one of those?
10:27 * jnthn doesn't see any $=... variables other than $=POD in S26.
10:27 sorear ISTR they go into an array
10:27 tadzik S26 mentions $= 8 times, and never explains fully what it is
10:28 jnthn ah
10:28 jnthn Magical file-scoped values live in variables with a C<=> secondary
10:28 jnthn sigil.
10:28 jnthn (says S02)
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10:39 tadzik yay, I didn't break the spectest
10:39 sorear \o/
10:46 tadzik I'm not sure '=begin item ACCEPTS()' is a valid Pod
10:47 tadzik either '=item ACCEPTS() – bla bla' or '=begin item\nACCEPTS()\nbla bla'
10:48 dalek niecza: b2c61f5 | sorear++ | / (6 files):
10:48 dalek niecza: Implement .Rat
10:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b2c61f510f
10:49 tadzik "Typenames that are entirely lowercase or entirely uppercase are reserved" -- English-o?
10:51 sorear no
10:52 tadzik oh, I fail at reading
10:52 tadzik missed the 'that'
10:54 sorear perl6: my $case = 0.130442081080024.Rat; say "$case.perl() {0e0+$case}"
10:54 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Rat: "&Rat"␤    at /tmp/MX29LwsYOq line 1, column 7-33␤»
10:54 p6eval ..niecza v5-41-gb2c61f5: OUTPUT«686/5259 0.130443050009508␤»
10:54 p6eval ..rakudo 4398a2: OUTPUT«776/5949 0.130442091107749␤»
10:54 * sorear found a superior algorithm on wikipedia.
10:55 sorear tomorrow: the full set of coercions .FatRat .Num .Complex; Str.Numeric supporting all numeric types; transcedental* functions
10:56 sorear *sqrt isn't transcedental but I don't have a good inclusive term
10:56 * sorear out
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11:01 dalek rakudo: 30ebf78 | tadzik++ | src/core/ (2 files):
11:01 dalek rakudo: Remove invalid Pod
11:01 dalek rakudo:
11:01 dalek rakudo: S26 states:
11:01 dalek rakudo: After the typename, the rest of the C<=begin> marker line is treated as
11:01 dalek rakudo: configuration information for the block. This information is used in
11:01 dalek rakudo: different ways by different types of blocks, but is always specified
11:01 dalek rakudo: using Perl6-ish option pairs.
11:01 dalek rakudo:
11:01 dalek rakudo: We don't parse the block configuration information yet, plus they're not
11:01 dalek rakudo: needed anyway there.
11:01 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30ebf78424
11:02 tadzik s/anyway there/there anyway/, but eh
11:05 jnthn tadzik: Hmm, will have to try and keep your changes regularly merged into nom :)
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11:06 tadzik jnthn: the changes will be in a separate branch
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11:10 tadzik I think modifying src/core/Something.pm does not cause core.pm to regenerate
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11:47 Garda hey
11:47 Garda how stable is perl6
11:47 Garda I mean, is the language likely to change alot by the time it's released properly?
11:47 donri a lot, not sure, change, surely
11:48 sbp Garda: welcome! I don't think there will be any "released properly"
11:48 tadzik :)
11:48 sbp but as time goes on, less and less gets changed, and more and more gets coded
11:48 tadzik Garda: you can look at how the specification changes and see for yourself how much does it change
11:48 sbp and I think we're very far along that curve. most of the bits you would want to use are "set"
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11:49 tadzik Garda: see https://github.com/perl6/specs/commits/master
11:49 sbp only occasionally have I seen things I'd want to use that are in flux. recent discussions about numerical base conversion for example
11:49 Su-Shee how is a monthly release not "released properly"?!
11:49 sbp Su-Shee: are there Windows, OS X, and Linux binaries yet? :-)
11:49 tadzik Su-Shee: I'm sure Garda means "a complete PErl6 implementation"
11:50 Garda yea, I meant sorta like when someone blesses it and says, "it's done"
11:50 Garda I don't know
11:50 Su-Shee sdp: strange definition of "released properly"
11:51 Su-Shee Garda: it's blessed plenty. download it, use it, write code. see for yourself if it's useful to you or not.
11:51 tadzik almost everyone is confused :)
11:51 Su-Shee I'm not. ;)
11:51 tadzik yeah, what Su-Shee says. Try for yourself and see if it fits, don't wait for the blessing
11:51 sbp *sbp. and we all have our little mental milestones
11:53 Su-Shee sometimes I think people _want_ design by commitee and a stamp of approval ;) (which only some languages have anyways.. :)
11:53 tadzik yeah
11:54 sbp some are more mental than others
11:54 tadzik I think masak should be our comitee, he's experienced in declaring things Official and Complete, and no one ever opposes
11:54 sbp seconded
11:54 tadzik we should ask him to declare Perl 6 Properly Released
11:55 Su-Shee well let me put it that way: if browsers and web developers would actually _wait_ until the w3c approves anything - I think we could start using html4 then this year or last year. ;)
11:55 tadzik yay, Rakudo compiles itself!
11:55 sbp you think HTML 4.01 implementation is complete? how quaint
11:55 tadzik I mean, the kind of Rakudo I mangled
11:55 sbp
11:55 sbp <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN">
11:55 sbp <title/GS/<body onLoad="document.f.q.focus()"<form
11:55 sbp action="http://google.com/search" name=f/<p/<input
11:55 sbp name=q< type=submit>//
11:55 sbp
11:56 sbp see how many browsers properly render that. valid HTML 4.01
11:56 Su-Shee sbp: that was my way of saying that I give a shit if or if it is not. the real world is somewhere else anyways.
11:56 sbp using various SGML shortcuts that they left in for no obvious reason
11:56 sbp I'm arguing the same point of view more vehemently
11:57 sbp :-)
11:57 Su-Shee yes that was my point. who gives a shit if someone "officially" released perl 6 at some random level everyone defines differently for himself instead of just trying and using it?
11:58 sbp it's a tax that perl6, as the first truly new popular 21st century language, has to inevitably pay...
11:58 tadzik people who still look at Perl6 like how dog looks at a hedgehog. I think there're plenty of them actually, I can understand that
11:58 Su-Shee from a ceremonial point of view it's released very properly and very officially with a new baptism every month :)
11:59 Su-Shee right now, it's elitist and very much not popular. ;)
11:59 tadzik Same as people won't stop laughing at GNU/Hurd until the Hurd people say "yay, we're done!"
11:59 sbp . o O ( another mental milestone: a better package manager than gem and easy_install... )
12:00 tadzik hey, what's wrong with panda? :)
12:00 Su-Shee tadzik: I agree with most of those people, btw. If it wasn't for my overall never dying love for perl, I wouldn't have looked at perl 6 again at least 4 years ago, basically.
12:01 Su-Shee but I'm just a user, I look differently at languages.
12:02 sbp tadzik: good question, actually
12:02 sbp I will attempt to go through the "doing stuff with perl6" process from scratch
12:03 tadzik sbp: I'd *very* appreciate a GH ticket for every single thing you miss
12:03 sbp let's see what bits can be improved and whatnot
12:03 * sbp tries to make sure all old perl6 bits are properly removed first
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12:04 sbp . o O ( hmm, why do I have two versions of ffmpeg... )
12:04 sbp okay, going to start with the wiki page I made that everybody forgot about:
12:04 sbp https://github.com/perl6/misc/wiki/Get-Into-Perl6
12:05 sbp notice that February and March tarballs are missing from the Rakudo Star downloads list
12:05 sbp did pmichaud go on holiday?
12:05 tadzik no, Star stopped being monthly released
12:05 * sbp becomes the 433rd downloader of the April R* release
12:06 sbp oh? why? and it's going again now?
12:06 sbp "256MB is known to be too small for building Rakudo"
12:06 sbp lucky I'm not doing this on my server...
12:07 tadzik there is an announcement somewhere. Basically, Star is released when something significant happens
12:07 Su-Shee I thought it's monthly rakudo and quarterwise rakudo*?
12:07 tadzik dalek, wakey wakey
12:07 sbp ah, okay
12:07 sbp I'm going to do this with my normal procedure, installing into ~/usr/opt
12:07 sbp just to be tricky
12:08 sbp README doesn't note whether ICU 4.6 or 4.8 is to be preferred, or which versions at all are compatible and which aren't. I'll assume that 4.6.1 will work
12:09 sbp a direct link to http://site.icu-project.org​/download/46#ICU4C-Download in the README would be nice
12:09 sbp (binaries for everything except OS X, heh)
12:09 * sbp gets http://download.icu-project.org/fil​es/icu4c/4.6.1/icu4c-4_6_1-src.tgz
12:11 sbp icu4c-4_6_1-src.tgz rudely untars to icu/ rather than icu4c-4_6_1-src/
12:11 sbp readme.html? wonderful...
12:12 sbp "How To Download the Source Code", heh
12:12 sbp wtf is this rubbish:
12:12 sbp
12:12 sbp Depending on the platform and the type of installation, we recommend a small number of modifications and build options.
12:12 sbp Namespace: By default, unicode/uversion.h has "using namespace icu;" which defeats much of the purpose of the namespace. (This is for historical reasons: Originally, ICU4C did not use namespaces, and some compilers did not support them. The default "using" statement preserves source code compatibility.)
12:12 sbp We recommend you turn this off via -DU_USING_ICU_NAMESPACE=0 or by modifying unicode/uversion.h:
12:12 sbp
12:13 sbp it wants me to patch the default charset on OS X, so I suppose I'll do that
12:14 sbp patch says:
12:14 sbp #ifndef U_CHARSET_IS_UTF8
12:14 sbp -#   define U_CHARSET_IS_UTF8 0
12:14 sbp +#   define U_CHARSET_IS_UTF8 1
12:14 sbp #endif
12:14 sbp but my source says this:
12:14 sbp #ifndef U_CHARSET_FAMILY
12:14 sbp #   define U_CHARSET_FAMILY 0
12:14 sbp #endif
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12:14 sbp oh, the patch offset is wrong
12:15 sbp line 185 in my version. way to update the readme,
12:15 sbp but done, anyway
12:15 sbp "It may make sense to build the ICU code into static libraries (.a) rather than shared libraries (.so/.dll)." but it doesn't say where or when this might make sense
12:16 sbp no instructions for install on OS X, going to use the "UNIX" instructions
12:17 sbp phew. icu/readme.html#HowToConfigureICU says to try --help on this pre-configure script
12:17 sbp idea seems to be ./runConfigureICU MacOSX for me
12:17 sbp I note there's no --prefix option
12:18 sbp wait, now it says to run make
12:18 sbp but I didn't pass it a --prefix!
12:18 sbp perhaps [ configurearg ... ] includes flags?
12:19 sbp yep, this worked:
12:19 sbp $ ./runConfigureICU MacOSX --prefix=$HOME/usr/opt/rakudo
12:19 sbp export CPP= CC= CXX= CPPFLAGS= CFLAGS= -O2 CXXFLAGS= -O2 LDFLAGS= MAKE=
12:19 sbp Running ./configure  --prefix=/Users/sbp/usr/opt/rakudo for MacOS X (Darwin) using the GNU C++ compiler
12:19 sbp so when they say "arg", they really mean "flag or arg"
12:20 sbp (making rakudo use icu will be fun)
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12:25 * sbp skips make check
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12:25 sbp okay, now it says:
12:25 sbp $ perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot
12:25 sbp $ make
12:25 sbp $ make install
12:25 sbp which again has no prefix, so I'll try passing --help to Configure.pl
12:26 sbp $ perl --version
12:26 sbp This is perl 5, version 12, subversion 2 (v5.12.2) built for darwin-2level
12:26 sbp no --prefix option
12:26 sbp there's also no way to point to where ICU is, despite me installing it in a non-standard location
12:27 * sbp runs what it says to run anyway
12:29 sbp seems like it's only going to build locally, but it would be nice if it made that clear before the install lines
12:30 sbp not clear what make install will do, whether it will use /usr/local etc.
12:30 sbp oh, silly me. a little bit further down:
12:30 sbp The "--prefix=" option can be provided to Configure.pl
12:30 sbp to change the location of the install directory.
12:30 sbp despite the fact that Configure.pl doesn't list --prefix!
12:32 sbp so, $ perl Configure.pl --prefix=$HOME/usr/opt/rakudo --gen-parrot
12:33 Garda how can I check if a hash exists
12:33 dudulz left #perl6
12:34 Garda if exists %people{"bob"}
12:37 Su-Shee the hash or if the key exists or if the key exists and has a value? :)
12:39 sbp Garda: https://github.com/perl6/roast​/blob/master/S32-hash/exists.t
12:39 sbp exists %h1: 'a'
12:39 sbp %h1.exists('a')
12:40 sbp there's also defined(...)
12:40 sbp but I assume you want .exists
12:41 [Coke] left #perl6
12:41 jnthn rakudo: my %h = a => 1; say %h.exists('a'); say %h.exists{'b')
12:41 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<{ }>, couldn't find final '}' at line 22␤»
12:41 MayDaniel left #perl6
12:42 jnthn rakudo: my %h = a => 1; say %h.exists('a'); say %h.exists('b')
12:42 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤Bool::False␤»
12:42 Garda sbp, thanks, I'm looking at it now
12:43 [Coke] joined #perl6
12:44 sbp heh: src/core/YOU_ARE_HERE.pm
12:44 Garda Su-Shee, wanted to know if a key exists in a hash I know I have created
12:44 Garda sbp, thanks, just what I wanted
12:45 sbp :-)
12:48 sbp perhaps it would be a good idea to get a quantitative estimate of how much of the synopses are implemented in rakudo, and then set an arbitrary large percentage figure before having TT make some kind of super announcement that perl6 is GO, GO, GO
12:48 sbp hits 98% coverage, rakudo gets slashdotted, September of No End starts for perl6
12:48 sbp make and make install done
12:49 sbp lots of binaries
12:49 sbp $ ls
12:49 sbp ./parrot-prove*pbc_merge*
12:49 sbp ../parrot_config*pbc_to_exe*
12:49 sbp ops2c*parrot_debugger*perl6*
12:49 sbp panda*parrot_nci_thunk_gen*ufo*
12:49 sbp parrot*pbc_disassemble*ufobuilder*
12:49 sbp parrot-nqp*pbc_dump*
12:49 sbp notice that panda is in there already
12:49 * sbp wonders which ones to link in ~/usr/bin, always likes to play the minimalist game
12:50 * sbp plumps for perl6 and panda
12:50 sbp $ perl6 --version
12:50 sbp This is Rakudo Perl 6, version 2011.04 built on parrot 3.3.0
12:50 sbp Copyright 2008-2011, The Perl Foundation
12:50 sbp now going to try installing JSON::Tiny
12:51 * sbp tries panda --help
12:51 sbp funny, using --help made it download into ~/.panda/projects.json
12:51 phenny sbp: 12:51Z <Morbus> tell sbp http://news.nationalgeographic.com/ne​ws/2011/05/110520-area-51-secret-hid-​craft-base-declassified-a-12-plane/
12:51 tadzik oh, fun
12:52 sbp $ time panda help
12:52 sbp Usage: panda [command [args]]
12:52 sbp ...
12:52 sbp panda help  1.98s user 0.13s system 71% cpu 2.930 total
12:52 sbp why does it take 1.98 seconds to print the help message?
12:52 sbp I guess it's looking online to try to update projects.json each time I run it?
12:52 tadzik how about "Rakudo is slow"? :)
12:52 sbp even if I'm just running panda help?
12:53 tadzik it shouldn't, I'll take a peek
12:53 tadzik yeah, the panda object is initialized before MAIN
12:53 sbp right. even though rakudo is slow, I'm not sure printing a few lines to stdout should take 1.98 seconds... :-)
12:54 * sbp now tries $ panda list | grep -i JSON
12:54 tadzik the bin/panda script is a bit stupid. I was trying to reuse as much code as possible for the REPL and for the command-line args, and it ended up being crap :)
12:54 tadzik I'll fix it today after dinner
12:54 sbp ah, I see. thanks!
12:54 sbp that's good service :-)
12:55 tadzik btw, I see that dalek does not report my new branch but rakudo/gsoc-podparser is ready for testing :)
12:55 sbp it took 12.91 seconds to search for JSON in the list, might be some room for improvement there too
12:55 sbp $ time panda list | grep -i JSON
12:55 sbp JSON::Tiny
12:55 sbp JSON::RPC
12:55 sbp panda list  12.91s user 0.45s system 64% cpu 20.639 total
12:55 sbp grep -i JSON  0.00s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 20.634 total
12:55 * sbp thwaps dalek
12:56 sbp is there no way to see what packages are currently installed?
12:56 tadzik it is
12:56 tadzik list would print [installed] or [installed as a dependency] or something like this
12:56 sbp because the fact that it downloaded a projects.json file makes me wonder whether there isn't some sort of JSON package installed already
12:56 tadzik but only if it's installed by panda
12:56 tadzik JSON is a panda dependency, yes
12:56 sbp ah, so grepping for "install" should work?
12:56 sbp but JSON won't show up because panda didn't install it?
12:57 sbp it's just included in rakudo?
12:57 tadzik if you installed it by panda. Is that Star, or did you bootstrap panda yourself?
12:57 sbp Star
12:57 tadzik in Rakudo no, in star yes
12:57 tadzik you can run 'panda install Pies' and it will reinstall all the deps as well
12:57 tadzik now when I think about it, 'panda' is less confusing and more recognized
12:57 sbp what would happen now if I used panda to install JSON::Tiny?
12:58 tadzik it will install JSON::Tiny to your ~/.perl6/lib
12:58 sbp but perl6 won't use it?
12:59 tadzik it will, why not?
12:59 tadzik it depends what's higher in PERL6LIB
12:59 tadzik kernel 2.6.39 is acting silly
13:00 sbp how do I print the source that a module was loaded from?
13:00 sbp can't see anything in the S11 test suite
13:00 tadzik I don't think you can
13:01 tadzik or I don't understand
13:01 sbp well, I can get the INC list:
13:01 sbp $ perl6 -e 'say join(":", @*INC)'
13:02 sbp /Users/sbp/.perl6/lib:/Users/sbp/usr/opt/ra​kudo/lib/parrot/3.3.0/languages/perl6/lib:.
13:02 sbp but say I didn't know the INC list, or wanted to test
13:02 sbp I do 'use JSON::Tiny'
13:02 sbp then I want to say some attribute of JSON::Tiny to see where it's from
13:02 sbp or something deep in the module import bowels
13:04 tadzik ah
13:05 perlmonkey joined #perl6
13:07 sbp . o O ( plan 3? )
13:07 tadzik still far to plan 9 (ha ha!)
13:07 sbp hehe
13:07 sbp no idea on printing a module source then?
13:07 sbp been through all *.t files in S11-modules now
13:07 wamba left #perl6
13:07 tadzik nope
13:08 tadzik but, it's achieveable
13:08 tadzik 1) File::Find the module in @*INC, 2) slurp it :)
13:09 sbp hmm. well isn't the provenance metadata saved internally?
13:09 perlmonkey hi
13:09 sbp hi perlmonkey
13:09 sbp anyway, I'll try installing a module
13:09 perlmonkey if I'm iterating over a hash of hashes, is this correct way: for my $day (sort (keys(%{$D1}))) {
13:09 sbp https://github.com/colomon/Math-Prime/ seems a good one
13:09 jnthn star: use JSON::Tiny; say %*INC.perl
13:09 p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«undef␤»
13:09 jnthn aw.
13:09 jnthn wait, undef?!
13:10 jnthn star: use JSON::Tiny; say %*INC<JSON::Tiny>
13:10 p6eval star 2011.04: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
13:10 perlmonkey http://paste.debian.net/117617/ <-- here is a more complete example
13:10 tadzik perlmonkey: I think you're writing Perl 5 code, this is a Perl 6 channel
13:11 perlmonkey :(
13:11 tadzik you may want to consider asking on #perl-help on irc.perl.org
13:11 perlmonkey ok sorry
13:11 sbp
13:11 sbp $ panda install Math::Prime
13:11 sbp ==> Fetching Math::Prime
13:11 sbp ==> Building Math::Prime
13:11 sbp ==> Testing Math::Prime
13:11 sbp Unknown option: e
13:11 sbp Tests failed for Math::Prime
13:11 sbp
13:11 tadzik eww, please paste somewhere else
13:11 sbp no, heh
13:11 perlmonkey left #perl6
13:11 tadzik anyway, you're running Mac OSX, aren't you?
13:11 sbp never understood that "etiquette", never going to follow it without a decent argument for it :-)
13:11 sbp yep
13:11 satyavvd joined #perl6
13:12 tadzik I think it's because the bigger the paste, the harder it gets to follow a discussion
13:12 mtk left #perl6
13:12 sbp yep, that's certainly true when lots of people are talking or when the pastes are large
13:12 tadzik sbp: your prove, or TAP::Harnes, I never know, is probably quite old
13:13 sbp but I think it's okay to use discretion in all cases, and I don't think a paste of the size above is at all damaging to the integrity of the communication here :-)
13:13 sbp hmm, okay. what version is likely to be required, and how can I find out what I have vs. what I need?
13:14 Su-Shee it makes people having to read and parse utterly useless stuff in the backlog. the developers read each other due to timezones differences.
13:14 sbp yep, but when a paste is clearly delimited it's not hard to skip it
13:14 sbp and anyway, we've expended more lines now talking *about* the paste than the paste itself spanned
13:14 sbp whereas the paste itself was on topic, and the conversation about it is not
13:15 Su-Shee and who are you to decide what's hard to skip and what not for _all_ others?
13:15 sbp as I say, it's down to discretion. and my belief based on ten years of hardcore irc usage is that a paste of that size poses no problem. if somebody has a very compelling argument to the contrary then of course I'll update my usage patterns based on that
13:16 Su-Shee well you asked for an explanation, you got several, you're refusing because you don't like them. hence the conversation. ;)
13:16 sbp the explanations conflict with my experience
13:16 sbp they seem de jure, whereas my experience is de facto
13:16 Su-Shee well I have 15 years of hardcore irc usage if it comes down to that and _please_ just accept the culture of a channel. which your decade of irc should tell you anyways.
13:17 sbp I think it's worth going against the grain to dispell dogmata of these kinds
13:17 Su-Shee then enjoy.
13:17 Su-Shee left #perl6
13:18 sbp peculiar
13:18 sbp (sorry about that, didn't predict that effect)
13:19 sbp tadzik: "Unable to find module 'TAP::Harness' in the @*INC directories." (same with Harnes)
13:20 sbp I don't know what prove is, and it's hard to search for
13:20 dual left #perl6
13:20 sbp unless you mean standard /usr/bin/prove, which actually seems likely
13:20 arnsholt which prove in a terminal prints the full path to the command
13:20 arnsholt (prove is the program used to run and collate results from tests)
13:21 sbp thanks. its --version is reporting: prove v2.64, using Test::Harness v2.64 and Perl v5.10.0
13:21 arnsholt And the version of prove installed with system OS X is from roughly the lower neolithic IIRC
13:21 sbp hehe. right, my local perl installation is 5.12
13:21 sbp so I'll try updating that, thanks
13:21 * sbp looks into it
13:22 arnsholt Is it from MacPorts, or is it system Perl?
13:22 sbp the 5.10 is system perl. the 5.12 is manually built and installed from source
13:22 mtk joined #perl6
13:22 arnsholt In any case, the port you're looking for is p5-test-harness
13:23 sbp ah, I have it in ~/usr/opt/perl5.12/bin but it's not linked
13:23 tadzik sbp: yeah, I mean the standard prove
13:23 sbp one of the drawbacks of the minimalism
13:23 sbp tadzik: when panda failed, would it have left stuff lying around that needs to be cleaned?
13:24 sbp or when I do install again, will it be okay with the previous failed installation attempt?
13:24 arnsholt Yeah, put that in your $PATH (or replace the system one with a symlink to that, or whatever) and it'll work
13:24 sbp (reports "TAP::Harness v3.17 and Perl v5.12.2" now)
13:24 tadzik sbp: I think so
13:24 tadzik sbp: well, it can reuse this stuff anyway
13:24 arnsholt Yeah, 3.17 is less ancient
13:24 sbp okay, giving "$ time panda install Math::Prime" a go
13:25 sbp hmm, less ancient... :-)
13:25 sbp it's testing now, so apparently less ancient enough!
13:25 arnsholt Yeah, IIRC that option was renamed in v.3
13:25 arnsholt (I had trouble of a similar nature in a personal project last year)
13:26 sbp does, though, seem to be stuck on "t/01-basic.t .. 1/?"
13:26 sbp perhaps the tests are just intensive though. checking source...
13:27 sbp https://github.com/colomon/Math​-Prime/blob/master/t/01-basic.t
13:27 sbp doesn't look like it should be taking this long, guess it's stalled
13:27 sbp oh, wrong
13:27 sbp Succesfully installed Math::Prime. great!
13:27 sbp doing sanity testing now
13:28 sbp works fine. I also note that the README does say "It's still disturbingly slow.", which explains the apparent test stall; I should have looked at the README first
13:29 sbp tadzik: are there packages that can install scripts into bin/ too?
13:32 orafu left #perl6
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13:35 skangas joined #perl6
13:37 tadzik sbp: sure
13:37 tadzik like panda
13:37 huf left #perl6
13:37 tadzik I think LWP::Simple does it too
13:37 sbp got a good example of one that I could try out? modules.perl6.org doesn't seem to say which on... thanks
13:38 tadzik also, Mandelbrot, ufo, Yapsi
13:39 sbp got an error. http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611410/
13:42 * Garda can confirm: perl is awesome! :)
13:42 sbp including perl6? :-)
13:42 Garda so I spent the last 30mins or something writing an elo calculator
13:42 Garda sbp, in perl6 :)
13:43 sbp elo? this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system
13:43 tadzik Garda: nice :)
13:44 tadzik sbp: funny
13:44 tadzik reproducable?
13:44 Garda sbp, yea, it takes a results.txt file
13:45 sbp tadzik: running again now
13:45 Garda with names listed as Foo:Bar:0.5
13:45 sbp Garda: source online anywhere?
13:45 Garda and calculates everyone elo score
13:45 Garda sbp, give me a few mins to finish it
13:45 Garda i'll pastebin it somewhere
13:45 tadzik Garda: you may want to make a module for this
13:45 sbp thanks
13:45 sbp tadzik: new error this time
13:45 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611413/
13:46 tadzik something like http://search.cpan.org/~tbone/C​hess-Elo-1.0a/lib/Chess/Elo.pm
13:46 * tadzik grumbles
13:46 tadzik sbp: have you installed anything with dependencies before?
13:46 tadzik did the tests pass for panda?
13:47 sbp I didn't run make check before installing panda
13:47 woosley joined #perl6
13:47 am0c left #perl6
13:47 sbp note that panda was just part of rakudo star, I didn't even know it was included
13:48 sbp lemme know if there's any diagnostic I can run now
13:49 gbacon left #perl6
13:49 tadzik you can clone the panda repo and run 'ufo && make test', assuming you have ufo installed
13:49 pernatiy_ joined #perl6
13:51 tadzik Pies is now renamed to Panda
13:51 sbp yep, will do
13:51 pernatiy left #perl6
13:52 sbp failed, error message coming up
13:52 tadzik the same one?
13:52 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611415/
13:52 sbp nope. is there some specific directory I have to run that in?
13:52 sbp it can't find t/ basically
13:52 tadzik que?
13:53 tadzik in the directory you cloned the repo to
13:54 dalek ecosystem: f128f99 | tadzik++ | META.list:
13:54 dalek ecosystem: Pies in now panda
13:54 dalek ecosystem: review: https://github.com/perl6/e​cosystem/commit/f128f991bf
13:54 tadzik bleh, typo
13:54 sbp in rakudo/, or in modules/Pies/ or what?
13:54 huf joined #perl6
13:54 tadzik git clone git://github.com/tadzik/panda; cd panda; ufo; make test
13:55 sbp doing that now. note that my panda is from rakudo star of course though, so probably older
13:55 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611416/
13:55 sbp another fail. gotta run for a bit now, back in 30-60 mins
13:57 tadzik aaarrr
13:58 dalek star: 4268181 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
13:58 dalek star: Track the Pies -> panda rename
13:58 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/4268181064
13:58 dalek modules.perl6.org: e3ddd2f | tadzik++ | web/index.tmpl:
13:58 dalek modules.perl6.org: Track the Pies -> panda rename
13:58 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/e3ddd2f302
14:01 am0c joined #perl6
14:02 silug joined #perl6
14:04 dalek perl6.org: 290a262 | tadzik++ | source/ (2 files):
14:04 dalek perl6.org: Pies is now panda
14:04 dalek perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/p​erl6.org/commit/290a262ca0
14:07 silug left #perl6
14:07 Garda sbp, it's really simple:
14:07 Garda http://pastebin.ca/2066882
14:07 Garda http://pastebin.ca/2066883
14:07 Garda the second file is an input file
14:08 Garda it wants to be called results.txt
14:08 dalek star: ff57d8f | tadzik++ | skel/build/Makefile.in:
14:08 dalek star: Remove the Pies leftovers
14:08 dalek star: review: https://github.com/rakudo/star/commit/ff57d8f91a
14:08 tadzik Garda: what is the purpose of line #30 in the first one?
14:09 Garda none: sorry, leftover from something else
14:09 tadzik also, you can now @results.push(). Looks nice :)
14:10 Garda how would you have appended to an array before?
14:11 woosley left #perl6
14:11 Garda oh, wait, I did it the before way?
14:11 tadzik push(@results, $foo)... or push $foo, @results? I never know, that's why I like the method call :)
14:11 tadzik but whatever works for you, TIMTOWTDI
14:12 Garda you're right, much better
14:12 xabbu42 joined #perl6
14:12 Garda also, if there are any glaring mistakes, or ugly things like that, please point them out
14:12 xabbu42 left #perl6
14:12 Garda it's pretty much the first thing I've written in perl
14:13 tadzik there aren't any, as far as I can see
14:13 tadzik never written Perl 5 before?
14:13 Garda no
14:13 tadzik oh, you don't need a ; after a sub declaration
14:13 tadzik whoa. Where are you learning from?
14:13 Trashlord left #perl6
14:14 tadzik you can also do %player.keys, but keys %player is good too
14:14 Garda here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wiki​books/en/wiki/Perl_6_Programming
14:14 Garda also the pdf that comes with rakudo
14:14 tadzik ah, The Book
14:15 Garda tadzik, you mean in the last for loop?
14:15 tadzik Garda: aye
14:15 Garda yep, works
14:17 s1n left #perl6
14:17 s1n joined #perl6
14:18 tadzik I think using @a.sort instead of sort(@a) is something we could put in some perl6style guide
14:23 colomon +1
14:28 huf left #perl6
14:28 huf joined #perl6
14:30 sbp tadzik: back, sorry for the rush before
14:30 sbp wasn't even looking at the error messages, knew I had to go out soon
14:30 sbp Garda: great! interesting to see what you learned from too
14:30 sbp thanks for posting those
14:31 flatwhatson left #perl6
14:31 * sbp adds the wikibook to Get-Into-Perl6
14:31 tadzik colomon: maybe you could take a peek at the issue sbp has? I'm not able to reproduce this on Linux
14:32 sbp (error messages are 611410, 611413, and 611416 on pastebin.ubuntu.com)
14:34 sbp aha, I have panda/ext/Shell/Command.pm
14:34 sbp but my @*INC only contains:
14:34 sbp /Users/sbp/stuff/tmp/panda/blib/lib
14:34 sbp /Users/sbp/stuff/tmp/panda/lib
14:34 sbp so it's looking in lib/, but not ext/
14:35 sbp it's setting PERL6LIB itself of course, so it seems like ext/ needs to be added to that?
14:35 sbp I'm not sure if that's part of "ufo" or part of "make test", checking now
14:36 sbp it's part of make test
14:36 tadzik hold on
14:36 tadzik sbp: what does PWD=`pwd`; echo $PWD give you?
14:37 sbp in ~/stuff/tmp/panda it gives: /Users/sbp/stuff/tmp/panda
14:37 tadzik hmm
14:38 tadzik PERL6LIB=ext:lib perl6 bin/panda install .
14:38 tadzik sbp: could you try the above?
14:38 Moukeddar joined #perl6
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14:39 wamba joined #perl6
14:40 sbp it's bootstrapping the modules that it needs
14:40 tadzik oh, funny
14:40 sbp for the logs, for my benefit: panda depends on File::Tools, JSON::Tiny, Test::Mock
14:40 tadzik I guess the bootstrap.sh is overcomplicated and broken on Mac
14:42 sbp all the deps are installed, it got panda, the panda tests are running now
14:42 sbp ==> Succesfully installed panda
14:42 sbp there were some test failures. well, at least one. gonna paste
14:42 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611441/
14:43 sbp only one failure
14:43 sbp panda version and panda --version don't work, by the way
14:43 tadzik that's not a test failure, it's a trap
14:44 sbp which I think is required for POSIX compliance. not sure though
14:44 tadzik it's a git error message, and it's expected by the tests
14:44 sbp ah, okay! gotcha
14:44 tadzik oh, is it? I may think about it then
14:44 tadzik sbp: https://github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/4
14:44 sbp yeah, I wanted to run it just to check to see whether this new installation was really installed :-)
14:44 tadzik turned out to be not quite as LHF as I thought
14:45 sbp hehe
14:45 sbp okay, trying to install LWP::Simple again
14:45 sbp by the way, every time I invoke panda now, I get this error message twice:
14:45 sbp File::Mkdir is now deprecated, please use Shell::Command mkpath() instead
14:46 sbp as you'll see for yourself, because LWP::Simple install failed again
14:46 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611447/
14:46 tadzik are you sure your panda is fresh?
14:46 sbp same error as 611413, it seems, with the addition of the Mkdir one
14:46 sbp nope, definitely not sure of that
14:46 tadzik you can update it with 'panda install panda'
14:47 Trashlord joined #perl6
14:47 sbp thanks
14:47 tadzik sbp: could you try removing ~/.panda and retry?
14:48 sbp yep
14:48 sbp panda install panda gave "Project panda not found in the ecosystem" by the way
14:48 tadzik hmm, gimme a sec
14:48 tadzik yeah, the API page seems to not have updated
14:49 sbp well, I ran rm -rf ~/.panda; panda install panda
14:50 sbp and that's going okay now
14:51 sbp now I'm getting a single "File::Mkdir is now deprecated, please use Shell::Command mkpath() instead" when I invoke panda... :-)
14:51 tadzik great
14:51 tadzik update your panda ;)
14:51 tadzik the hackathoners in Russia have fixed this
14:51 sbp that was after I updated it. the update was successful
14:51 tadzik oh?
14:51 tadzik hrm
14:51 sbp trying LWP::Simple again, which is also working
14:52 tadzik maybe you're still running the Star Panda?
14:52 tadzik what does `which panda` give you?
14:52 sbp http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/611449/
14:52 sbp don't think so, because the LWP::Simple installation is working now
14:52 sbp that's the top of it, you can see the error message there
14:52 sbp Succesfully installed LWP::Simple
14:53 sbp my which panda is: /Users/sbp/usr/bin/panda
14:53 tadzik hrm
14:53 tadzik ah, gotcha!
14:53 tadzik try perl6 ~/.perl6/bin/panda install LWP::Simple
14:54 sbp that worked, with no File::Mkdir error message
14:54 tadzik sbp: also, I refactored bin/panda a bit, but there's no speedup, still 2.somethins seconds on help
14:54 sbp :-)
14:54 tadzik OTOH, update is almost as fast :)
14:55 tadzik 0.07 seconds longer
14:55 ymasory left #perl6
14:55 sbp so that's basically all startup time? scary
14:55 sbp now, I have lwp-download.pl and lwp-get.pl in ~/.perl6/bin
14:55 sbp but not in ~/usr/opt/rakudo/bin, which is interesting
14:56 tadzik is it?
14:56 sbp shouldn't the successful rakduo star panda installation of LWP::Simple put them there?
14:56 sbp or does it *always* put them in ~/.perl6/bin?
14:56 tadzik yes
14:56 tadzik or to DESTDIR
14:56 tadzik I think :)
14:56 sbp yes to ~/.perl6/bin?
14:57 tadzik yes, panda installs to ~/.perl6/bin by default
14:57 sbp hmm. what about the modules? always in ~/.panda?
14:58 tadzik no, everything goes to ~/.perl6/somewhere
14:58 tadzik .panda is a place for configs and downloads
14:58 sbp oh right, sorry, found it at ~/.perl6/lib/LWP/Simple.pm now
14:59 sbp though I also have ~/usr/opt/rakudo/lib/parrot/3.3.0/​languages/perl6/lib/LWP/Simple.pm - put there as part of rakudo star I assume?
14:59 tadzik I think so, yes
15:00 moritz yes
15:00 tadzik oh hi moritz
15:00 sbp there are no lwp-download.pl and lwp-get.pl in ~/usr/opt/rakudo/bin though, I note
15:00 sbp hi there moritz
15:06 ymasory joined #perl6
15:06 moritz \o
15:15 jnthn o/ moritz
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 4700c15 | jnthn++ | src/binder/s (2 files):
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Bring in a couple of 6model header files.
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4700c15860
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 90aa201 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Signature also needs a slot for caching the named to positional mapping.
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/90aa201682
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 3368f83 | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove P6lowlevelsig PMC, since we're just going to use one representation of signatures from now on. Also stop building perl6multisub.pmc - the logic in it will mostly move to ops.
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3368f83068
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 4521157 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Toss some dynops that we'll no longer need with 6model including the 'cannot be unseen!!1!!' rebless_subcalss.
15:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4521157362
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15:17 moritz bind.c:11:38: error: ../pmc/pmc_p6lowlevelsig.h: No such file or directory
15:17 moritz bind.c: In function ‘Rakudo_binding_bind_llsig’:
15:18 Garda left #perl6
15:18 jnthn moritz: Same here.
15:18 jnthn moritz: Fixing. :)
15:19 sbp does panda come bundled with niecza? (guessing not)
15:22 moritz does apt come bundled with windows XP? :-)
15:22 jnthn uh-oh...thunder storm.
15:23 moritz jnthn: we had that yesterday
15:23 sbp hehe
15:23 moritz sbp: the comparison wasn't fair, but you get the gist :-)
15:23 sbp I was just about to say, odd to compare niecza to WinXP... :-)
15:26 * moritz hopes that sorear doesn't kill him :-)
15:26 sbp or Mr. Gates. trouble from both sides
15:29 moritz I kinda doubt that Mr. Gates reads #perl6 logs :-)
15:30 * moritz needs to fetch his luggage before the luggage storage closes for the night
15:30 moritz see you later, if the hotel has free wifi :-)
15:30 moritz ttfn
15:30 sbp enjoy
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15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: e53ff5c | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Toss ops related to building llsig.
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e53ff5c356
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 4d064d0 | jnthn++ | build/Makefile.in:
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Build binder into ops library rather than PMCs one - we're not going to need it from the PMCs one any more.
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4d064d01b3
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 367e9ff | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: Start refactoring the binder to use Signature and Parameter classes. Untested beyond the fact that it compiles.
15:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/367e9ff9b2
15:41 tadzik moritz: oh, you had storm too?
15:41 tadzik sbp: there's still lots of blockers for Panda on Niecza
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15:43 tadzik jnthn: first, I thought that rebless_subcalss is a typo-joke. Then instead of class-calss I thought of calls-calss. Then, I don't know what's to be unseen :)
15:44 jnthn tadzik: There was an op called rebless_subclass. It did...great evil. :)
15:44 Pathin joined #perl6
15:45 tadzik oh, so it's the inside joke (ha ha!)
15:45 jnthn It was actually just a typo :P
15:45 jnthn One Parrot developer once looked at the op and was like "cannot be unseen" :)
15:46 jnthn It *was* evil. ;)
15:46 tadzik :)
15:46 * jnthn is enjoying collapsing three different types of signature representation into just one.
15:47 tadzik em, is one supposed to define quote_EXPR?
15:47 tadzik like, at all?
15:48 jnthn You inherit it from HLL::Grammar.
15:48 tadzik that's what I thought. So there's absolutely no need to define it yourself?
15:49 jnthn No
15:50 jnthn IIRC you can cutomize it by adding extra quote_mod though.
15:50 tadzik cardinal has it written in PIR, and there becomes some fun when we migrate that to nqprx
15:51 tadzik it also has quote_term, quote_concat and other fun things
15:51 jnthn oh
15:51 jnthn I'm guessing that its PIR one won't migrate over well at all
15:52 jnthn Since it probably works with PGE's world view or something.
15:52 tadzik yeah
15:53 jnthn But does the quote_EXPR in nqprx not do the job?
15:54 tadzik no one knows. No one has ever succeeded to move a compiler from PGE to Nqprx, as far as I know
15:54 tadzik so I made nqp-rx compile the grammar and actions, but there are things broken beyond my comprehension
15:57 tadzik jnthn: nom build fails for me
15:57 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/533545/txt/
15:58 Pathin left #perl6
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16:01 jnthn tadzik: That somehow looks like an incomplete nqp installation.
16:01 tadzik hmm
16:01 jnthn nqp_group is something that nqp's make install should put in place.
16:01 tadzik maybe I broke it with yesteday's mangling
16:05 tadzik yeah, I had a not-installed nqp
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16:07 jnthn phew :)
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 5892b51 | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: Oops, was a little too eager with the delete key; we still need deref_unless_object, albeit updated for 6model. Few other cleanups of unused things in ops too.
16:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5892b5164d
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16:16 colomon tadzik: what's the issue?  no time to backlog, parents and in-laws visiting and I'm grilling.  ;)
16:18 satyavvd_ left #perl6
16:18 tadzik colomon: oh, nevermind, got solved in mid-time :) Have fun!
16:18 sbp colomon: if you mean the panda issue, it's fixed now. stuff was out of date, that's all
16:18 sbp yeah, enjoy grilling. don't grill your in-laws!
16:19 sbp I'll probably try to do the same installation procedure from scratch when the next Rakudo Star comes out
16:19 sbp hope there will be one this month? would be nice to incorporate the panda updates
16:20 sorear good * #perl6
16:21 sbp hey sorear
16:21 tadzik I don't think panda updates are a motor to update Star
16:21 tadzik I think pmichaud wanted to release Star this month for the performance bumps though
16:21 sbp ah, good. maybe they should be though, always handy to have a working module manager!
16:21 sbp just as important to have those top level bits as the bottom level bits, when you're doing stuff
16:22 sbp I'm sure you agree. maybe pmichaud needs to hear a few more +1s in that direction? :-)
16:24 sbp if not, perhaps a few more links to panda, and information about updating panda, could be added to rakudo/README?
16:25 sorear sbp: Once upon a time, Parrot bundled a properly configured and integrated version of icu.  It was removed for political reasons; talk to jnthn.
16:25 * jnthn has probably moaned quite enough about that issue already...
16:25 jnthn I just don't build with ICU anymore.
16:26 jnthn Can't be arsed to wrok out how to get it to work on win32 *again*.
16:26 sorear sbp: 'panda' doesn't just print lines to stdout; it also compiles panda, and loads perl6.pbc, both of which would easily explain 2s.
16:27 sbp aha, thanks. tadzik did look into optmising it a bit as you'll see probably further down the logs before getting back here, but it didn't speed it up much. no big deal at the moment, it just surprised me
16:27 sbp (of course I was measuring panda performance relative to other languages' package managers)
16:27 sbp on ICU, yeah. well I see unicode support and think "mandatory!"
16:28 sbp but what a silly installation procedure that was. and then, when it was done, no clear process at all to include the installed ICU libraries because I was using a non-standard path
16:28 sorear sbp: some irc clients don't have the ability to split the window and keep one half scrolled up while the other tracks current discussion, so pastebins help
16:28 sbp again not really a big deal, but if somebody slavishly follows instructions like me, they'll be trying to apply broken patches to ICU before they even touch rakudo
16:29 sbp you'll notice I used a pastebin after the little incident there...
16:29 colomon left #perl6
16:29 sbp maybe it'll take me another five years to learn the value of emoparting... :-)
16:30 sbp I would like to know what funtionality ICU brings to parrot/rakudo
16:30 * sbp looks at the docs again for that
16:31 sorear the main thing ICU brings is a complete set of character property tables
16:32 jnthn std: sub foo($y = $x, $x) { }
16:32 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $x is not predeclared at /tmp/ykjSbVs57o line 1:␤------> [32msub foo($y = [33m⏏[31m$x, $x) { }[0m␤Cannot put required parameter after optional parameters at /tmp/ykjSbVs57o line 1:␤------> [32msub foo($y = $x, $x[33m⏏[31m) {
16:32 p6eval ..}[0m␤Pote…
16:32 sorear for instance "\x3000" ~~ /\s/ is true with ICU available
16:32 sorear (that's IDEOGRAPHIC SPACE)
16:32 jnthn std: sub foo($y = $x) { my $x }
16:32 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤Variable $x is not predeclared at /tmp/okachTT5sG line 1:␤------> [32msub foo($y = [33m⏏[31m$x) { my $x }[0m␤Potential difficulties:␤  $x is declared but not used at /tmp/okachTT5sG line 1:␤------> [32msub foo($y = $x) { my $x[33m⏏[31m
16:32 p6eval ..}[0m␤  …
16:32 jnthn Good.
16:32 sorear I think without ICU parrot treats all characters >255 as being \w
16:33 sorear hi jnthn.
16:33 sbp hmm. so couldn't those tables be included quite simply by other means?
16:33 sbp this sounds like a parrot issue rather than a perl6 issue though?
16:34 sbp I mean, python for example just compiles UnicodeData.txt down into some data structure that it can use throughout the standard library. it's not having to include a whole different library for that
16:34 sorear yeah well... this is Parrot we're talking about.
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16:34 TimToady I've been harping on that for years, actually...
16:35 sorear (I don't have a high opinion of #parrot.  Can you tell?)
16:35 sbp not possible to work around it at the rakudo level, perhaps? (or not worth it? or not politically friendly?)
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16:36 jnthn Possible.
16:36 jnthn But too much to do.
16:36 jnthn Could happen at some point.
16:37 sbp if not, I might file a rakudo bug (or am at least suggesting on logs here if I don't get around to it) that the ICU instructions in README could be moved about, made more clear that it's a very optional thing, what kind of effects there are, etc.
16:37 TimToady could base it on P5's tables too, which I think are pretty up-to-date
16:37 sbp (even if it's marked pri=low, worth having on file)
16:37 TimToady but that's even less palatable in the world of talking birds
16:38 sbp . o O ( verbirdgenous )
16:41 sbp how does panda compare to masak's proto?
16:41 sbp not immediately obvious from his README that there's any difference at all
16:43 sbp panda seems more up to date, at least
16:44 jnthn sbp: panda is actively developed. proto is not, faik.
16:45 sbp thanks. masak's META.info was last updated 28 Jan 2011
16:46 sbp but the rest seems to be from about June 2010
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17:09 dalek nqp: f6bda2d | jonathan++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
17:09 dalek nqp: Fix copy-pasto.
17:09 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/f6bda2d60d
17:10 tadzik sbp: re panda performance, like sorear says, it's compiling bin/panda and loading perl6.pbc, but also loading all the Panda modules, which are recompiled, but are still a big piece of code
17:12 sorear if you tried to use niecza as a drop-in replacement for Rakudo in panda, (lets pretend it magically gets all the features you need), you'd probably find it was slower
17:13 sorear niecza's compiler, due mostly to .net weaknesses, loads significantly slower than Rakudo's
17:13 sorear like 5-10 seconds for hello world
17:13 sbp ah, note that I was only asking about panda in niecza so that I could document it in Get-Into-Perl6 not for performance reasons :-)
17:13 PerlJam jnthn: I saw this quote on FB and thought of you:  "I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts, and beer."  --Abraham Lincoln
17:15 jnthn beer :D
17:15 jnthn A man who really understood the needs of the people. :)
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17:19 dalek niecza: de0797d | sorear++ | / (4 files):
17:19 dalek niecza: Implement .Int and .Num coercions
17:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/de0797d9c4
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17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 710de96 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Re-work call into the signature binder. Should be a good bit cheaper than how we locate signature and capture today.
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/710de96c6d
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 98c43fd | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Create lexical slots for parameters.
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/98c43fd2fd
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: c50c120 | jnthn++ | src/binder/bind. (2 files):
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: A few little fixes to the binder updates.
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c50c120364
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: 56a776f | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (4 files):
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Get signature building a little further along, plus assorted fixes to trait application time.
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/56a776f8dd
17:54 sorear hmm, there are quite a few numeric functions I'm misisng!
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18:22 dalek roast: efd5f21 | tadzik++ | S0 (4 files):
18:22 dalek roast: Remove pieces of invalid Pod
18:22 dalek roast:
18:22 dalek roast: See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30ebf78
18:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/efd5f2155e
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18:29 dalek niecza: 03012ee | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
18:29 dalek niecza: Fix a few parameter names
18:29 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/03012ee8fa
18:30 dalek roast: 8657a3a | sorear++ | S (17 files):
18:30 dalek roast: Unfudge a few niecza tests
18:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/8657a3a07b
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18:44 * moritz back
18:45 sorear hello moritz
18:46 tadzik yay, my first backtracking problem encountered and solvedt
18:46 sbp what happened to all the old rakudo.org blog links?
18:46 sbp e.g. http://rakudo.org/2008/09/final​-report-for-mozilla-found.html
18:46 sbp but anything with a date in it seems to have disappeared
18:47 sorear rakudo.org stopped working and alester tried valiantly but failed to fix it
18:47 sbp ah, shame
18:47 moritz sbp: I thikn the blog wasn't ported, most of that was just release announcements
18:47 sorear the content was migrated to a new server with a different CMS
18:47 sorear the blog is probably still there under a different URL scheme
18:48 sbp hmm, if so http://rakudo.org/?s=Final+Report+for+Mozilla doesn't find it
18:48 sorear 3.97-4.06 sec "Hello, world" before my next attempt
18:53 sbp “> 1- ready binaries for different systems at the same date of releasing source, especially for windows
18:53 sbp This will be rather easy if somebody steps up and builds the binaries. I fear that most Rakudo developers lack the expertise to do themselves.”
18:53 sbp moritz in http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=845586
18:53 sbp perhaps I should throw up my installation as an OS X binary
18:54 sbp but I'm not sure I'd maintain it with much regularity
18:56 flussence (in an ideal world, the OS-dependent part of rakudo would be tiny...)
18:57 sbp incidentally, moritz seems to be in pretty much all the perl6 results I've just been randomly Googling through. see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3383339 for example — ysth's comment made me laugh
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19:05 tadzik yay, I can parse paragraph blocks!
19:05 tadzik Well, Rakudo can
19:06 arnsholt tadzik: That's even better! ;)
19:07 * arnsholt is trying to wrap a slightly weird C library with SWIG
19:07 arnsholt An interesting experience
19:08 tadzik I think I should complete week #1 first, but this is just too exciting
19:08 tadzik Besides, Week #1 haven't started yet anyway :)
19:11 tadzik is <?before> there?
19:12 ymasory left #perl6
19:13 tadzik or, nevermind
19:18 lumi_ left #perl6
19:18 moritz it is, though <?after> is NYI
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19:23 tadzik yay, I managed to parse paragraph blocks with no backtracking
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19:49 tadzik I can write <!foobar> and token foobar { [ 'foo' | 'bar' ] }; Can I write something like ![ 'foo' | 'bar' ]?
19:49 tadzik oh, just <![ 'foo' | 'bar']>, right?
19:50 tadzik right. Or at least "the tests pass" :)
19:50 sorear no
19:50 jferrero joined #perl6
19:50 sorear <![ 'foo' | 'bar' ]> is a negative lookahead character class
19:51 sorear you want <!beforefoo || bar>
19:52 tadzik it gets autoquoted this way?
19:53 sorear parse erro
19:53 sorear semantic dispatch failed, rather
19:54 tadzik hmm
19:54 tadzik this way, I don't need to put 'foo' or 'bar' in quotes?
19:55 sorear correct
19:56 tadzik it looks a bit funny
19:56 sorear any \w in a regex matches itself even if unquoted
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19:56 tadzik Method 'beforebegin' not found for invocant of class 'Pod6;Grammar'
19:56 sorear you need a space after before; I typoed
19:57 tadzik nice. Thanks sorear
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20:32 tadzik . o O ( will the feed operator at the beginning of a line get parsed as Pod? )
20:33 dalek nqp: 3339a14 | jonathan++ | src/NQP/ (2 files):
20:33 dalek nqp: Add a way to specify extra vm libs (e.g. pmc or op libs for Parrot) to load and use.
20:33 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3339a14262
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20:54 Tene tadzik: I've moved a few other compilers over from PGE to NQP without much trouble; iirc the PIR stuff in the compiler was just copied literally from rakudo at the time, fwiw.
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20:56 dalek niecza: f1966c1 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
20:56 dalek niecza: Reorganize nam to load much less (~75%) data; small startup time improvement.
20:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f1966c13ac
20:56 tadzik Tene: oh, I see
20:57 Tene tadzik: so, you should be able to use the NQP-provided quote stuff without any trouble, I expect
20:57 tadzik Tene: have you looked at the latest Cardinal Pull Request?
20:57 Tene tadzik: I haven't looked at cardinal whatsoever in quite a while.
20:58 Tene tadzik: do you have permissions to manage the cardinal repo yourself?  If you think it's good, just update it.  You've done far more work than I have on it lately; feel free to take as much ownership or maintainership as you like.
20:59 * sorear grumbles at the CLR not letting me form the type object*
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21:05 tadzik Tene: the thing is I'm not sure whether it's really good, I feel like a blind man in the fog when it comes to pge-nqprx transition
21:05 Tene ah, yeah, understandable.
21:08 tadzik loliblogged! http://ttjjss.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/the​-summary-of-the-community-bonding-period/
21:09 mtk joined #perl6
21:14 * sorear has had a vision of a possible future of niecza
21:15 wamba joined #perl6
21:15 sorear actually I think I want the simple past "had" here
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21:17 jnthn tadzik: Nice! :) Though shouldn't the tl;dr go at the start? ;-)
21:17 sorear it involved discarding the "Perl 6 globals are CLR globals" optimization, consolidating all of the variables in each unit into a single RuntimeUnit object, and a fair amount of bounded serializaiton stuff
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21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: e1e7c83 | jnthn++ | src/binder/bind.c:
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix a silly.
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1e7c8356b
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: b72506d | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: First cut at ClassHOW.type_check.
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b72506dd7f
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: a05d65d | jnthn++ | / (5 files):
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Top type accepts everything. Also prep for putting junction auto-threading back in later.
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/a05d65d6ca
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 8b71496 | jnthn++ | / (5 files):
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: .WHAT, .HOW. .WHO.
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8b71496f65
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 97577c6 | jnthn++ | NOMMAP.markdown:
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: Update NOMMAP.
21:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/97577c609c
21:26 * jnthn remembers that he's teaching tomorrow, and reluctantly puts down Rakudo nom so he can sleep
21:27 jnthn well, maybe just one more patch...
21:27 sorear sleep well... *wonders when to start studying rakudo nom*
21:28 jnthn sorear: It's quite a building site at the moment.
21:28 tadzik jnthn: I didn't want to ruin the suprise :)
21:28 benabik Fun to watch though.
21:28 jnthn sorear: Mostly I'm ripping a load of primitives up and re-doing them. :)
21:28 jnthn And playing with circularity saws.
21:29 sorear there will be some nice catching up to do after the merge. :)
21:29 sorear in more than one sense of the word
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21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: dd55769 | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: Native types should be able to inherit (of course, 'instances' cannot, but the type object can, so int ~~ Int, etc.)
21:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dd55769503
21:36 sorear wait, rakudo nom supports 'int'?
21:37 jnthn sorear: Initially just for natively typed attributes, but it's the foundation for the rest of it.
21:38 jnthn sorear: There's a bunch of other stuff needed before Rakudo can interestigly support 'int'.
21:38 jnthn But, gotta start towards it somewhere... :)
21:40 jnthn OK, really sleep &
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22:31 dalek niecza: b8d8df9 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
22:31 dalek niecza: Localized cleanups of CLRBackend, use varargs
22:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b8d8df9933
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