Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:35 dalek niecza: 4508d7b | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
00:35 dalek niecza: Start building RuntimeUnit objects
00:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4508d7bcc1
00:35 dalek niecza: 04df192 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
00:35 dalek niecza: Serialized representation, not contstructors, for declarative prefixes
00:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/04df192676
00:38 sorear that change alone brings STD.BOOT down from 477378 to 408958 (bytes of IL)
01:21 dalek niecza: 183a42a | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
01:21 dalek niecza: Use a blob for the SubInfo constructor
01:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/183a42a442
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02:04 sorear 294695
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02:31 dalek niecza: 75a1ba9 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
02:31 dalek niecza: Encode signatures as blobs
02:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/75a1ba96f3
02:31 sorear 281777 (despite code to set up index->metaobject mapping)
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03:17 dalek niecza: d39d163 | sorear++ | src/NieczaPass (2 files):
03:17 dalek niecza: Avoid generating symbols for has methods in void context
03:17 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d39d163a3c
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04:10 dalek niecza: 583d03b | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
04:10 dalek niecza: Eliminate top-level protosub fields, they do not pull their weight
04:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/583d03b658
04:10 dalek niecza: 7febed1 | sorear++ | lib/CLRBackend.cs:
04:10 dalek niecza: Coalesce identical constants
04:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7febed1f89
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04:45 dalek niecza: 481e8ca | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
04:45 dalek niecza: Use a denser coding of strings, also coalesce them
04:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/481e8ca396
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05:43 moritz tadzik++ # gsoc blog post
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06:07 dalek niecza: 280737c | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
06:07 dalek niecza: Generate class member info as blobs
06:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/280737c3f8
06:07 dalek niecza: 77f924c | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
06:07 dalek niecza: Move more of the sub2 logic into LoadSubInfo
06:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/77f924cd4b
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07:07 sorear I wish zip -r wouldn't include vim swap files
07:09 sorear nice, niecza --help goes from 5.1s to 2.5s after rebooting it with the current improvements
07:09 benabik sorear: That's why I like git-archive and generally include a Makefile recipe to include any build products I need.
07:09 sorear well, I'm making a zip of generated files mostly
07:10 * sorear wonders if it still makes sense to use zip
07:10 benabik sorear: Ah.  Less useful then, although that is the reason I use git-archive.  :-D
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07:41 dalek niecza: f3e0436 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
07:41 dalek niecza: Simplify handling of alternation metadata
07:41 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f3e0436694
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08:31 dalek niecza: ea4bffe | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
08:31 dalek niecza: First foray into a true constant pool
08:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ea4bffe31f
08:31 dalek niecza: ad0859a | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
08:31 dalek niecza: Extend pooling to CC[] and AltInfo
08:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ad0859af36
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08:53 Jon_Doe perl6: say 3
08:53 p6eval pugs, rakudo 30ebf7, niecza v5-56-gf3e0436: OUTPUT«3␤»
08:53 Jon_Doe lolwut.
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08:54 tadzik pff
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09:18 dalek niecza: 60b2044 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
09:18 dalek niecza: And now user variables get pooling too
09:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/60b2044dad
09:18 dalek niecza: 50b1205 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
09:18 dalek niecza: Finish converting all types of constants to the pool system
09:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/50b120514f
09:25 * sorear out
09:25 sorear STD.dll is under 2MB now \o/
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10:09 Moukeddar hello Perl9
10:09 Moukeddar 6*
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10:12 jdhore1 Can I ask a really quick P5 question?
10:14 daniel-s jdhore1, well, there is #perl
10:14 daniel-s but also
10:14 daniel-s this place seems kinda quiet, so I don't think there's anyone to tell you off, even if you were doing something wrong by asking
10:15 jdhore1 Well...what's the best way to check if something isn't undef? (i'm having a brainfart)... if ($variable) {} ?
10:16 huf defined
10:17 huf if (defined $foo) { ...
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10:17 jdhore1 huf, for Perl 5?
10:18 huf yes, isnt that what you were asking?
10:18 jdhore1 Yeah, I was just making sure
10:18 daniel-s in perl6, would it be if $variable.defined ?
10:18 daniel-s cos now it's got a method
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10:28 jdhore1 Thanks guys
10:28 jdhore1 It's 6:30AM (nearly) and i haven't been to bead yet so i'm a bit tired
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14:01 sorear daniel-s: the sub form still exists (and is substantially faster on niecza)
14:01 sorear good * #perl6
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14:19 sorear hello jdhore1.
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14:30 dalek niecza: 69332cd | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
14:30 dalek niecza: Fix * smartmatch behavior
14:30 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/69332cd953
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15:28 rindolf Hi all.
15:29 colomon o/
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16:01 jnthn evening, #perl6
16:02 dalek specs: 74b208c | larry++ | S06-routines.pod:
16:02 dalek specs: don't include positional names in API
16:02 dalek specs:
16:02 dalek specs: As suggested by masak++ and jnthn++, remove the names of positionals
16:02 dalek specs: from the public API.
16:02 dalek specs:
16:02 dalek specs: In its place, substitute the more useful ability to treat positionals
16:02 dalek specs: as if they were named by the use of *numeric* keys.  That is, move the
16:02 dalek specs: ability to name positionals out of the binder and into the coercion
16:02 dalek specs: from hash to capture.  This answers the three objections to named positionals:
16:02 dalek specs:     * The positions of the positionals are already part of the public API.
16:02 dalek specs:     * This has no run-time overhead (unless you force this coercion to happen
16:02 dalek specs: at run time, using prefix:<|> for instance).
16:02 dalek specs:     * People will use this because many external formats do not support captures.
16:02 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/74b208c3d7
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16:04 jnthn \o/
16:04 jnthn (walks by the neva)++
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16:05 rindolf Hi jnthn
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16:05 jnthn o/ rindolf
16:08 rindolf jnthn: what's up?
16:10 jnthn rindolf: Not much...just getting back to dayjob after a vacation in Russia. :)
16:10 jnthn Well, vacation and YAPC. :)
16:10 rindolf jnthn: ah.
16:10 rindolf jnthn: YAPC?
16:10 jnthn YAPC::Russia
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16:37 colomon woah, that's a biggish change, no?
16:37 colomon 74b208c3d7dc6bc3fb913be3376492e2d72733f6, I mean
16:38 colomon if nothing else, I foresee a good number of spectests needing to be fixed
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16:48 TimToady yes, it was up there on the Richter scale
16:49 TimToady but at this point in Perl 6's life, it's always better to fix something sooner rather than later
16:49 colomon Still, TimToady++ -- both for seeing it was the right thing to do and being willing to take the pain of doing it.
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16:52 colomon Though I'm doubting you will handle fixing all the spectests yourself.  ;)
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17:00 * TimToady has learned to delegate anything that I can cajole other people into doing as well as I would do it...
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17:03 colomon jnthn: how hard would it be to implement that change in current Rakudo?  (Maybe as a branch?)  A lot easier to fix  spectests with a "working" compiler to test them on.
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17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 8cdd3e9 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: Remove named to positional paramter binding.
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8cdd3e9460
17:41 colomon jnthn++
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17:57 moritz oh hai
17:57 * moritz feels he missed something big-ish :-)
17:58 colomon you can't refer to positional arguments by name anymore.  (external to the function, that is)
17:59 colomon (NYI ... er ... NY unimplemented? in Rakudo, natch.)
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18:10 dalek roast: 87efb8a | moritz++ | S32-array/ (10 files):
18:10 dalek roast: [S32-array] unfossile tests. Most of that is calling positional arguments by name
18:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/87efb8a182
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18:19 tadzik neh, a test passes on gsocmess, fails on Rakudo
18:20 tadzik I'm one spectest from gsoc-podparser passing the spectests :)
18:20 mberends tadzik: nice :)
18:21 tadzik mberends: have you seen the latest blag toast?
18:21 tadzik rakudo: say '=' ~~ /\w/
18:21 mberends tadzik: yes, where you almost finished weeks 1 and 2 during week 0 ;)
18:21 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«␤»
18:22 tadzik mberends: I was close to being a hipster cat: http://memegenerator.net/instance/7912124 ;)
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18:23 tadzik I still have some dunnos though, turns out that $=POD variable, scheduled for some deep august I think, needs to be available now, or some substitute of it
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18:23 mberends tadzik: that site looks like potentially too much information...
18:26 tadzik :P
18:27 tadzik that's the weird region of the internet
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18:39 dalek roast: c5fa27b | moritz++ | S32- (13 files):
18:39 dalek roast: [S32] remove more tests for now-gone calling-positionals-by-named tests
18:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c5fa27b821
18:39 dalek roast: 19614fb | moritz++ | S32- (14 files):
18:39 dalek roast: [S32] unfossile more tests
18:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/19614fbd80
18:40 sorear colomon: 'deimplemented' would be good
18:40 * moritz fears his internet will expire in 5 minutes :/
18:41 sorear that's about how soon I'm leaving for my first final
18:41 moritz sorear: I wish you the best of luck
18:41 tadzik sorear: what's that one from?
18:42 mberends good luck sorear
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18:43 sorear colomon: or maybe 'disimplemented'
18:43 dalek roast: 85d2267 | moritz++ | S32-str/ (9 files):
18:43 dalek roast: [S32] more unfossiling
18:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/85d22670cf
18:44 sorear thanks all
18:44 colomon sorear: so NYD either way?  :)
18:44 sorear perl6: sub foo($x) { say $x.perl }; foo(5 => "bar")
18:44 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7, niecza v5-61-g69332cd: OUTPUT«5 => "bar"␤»
18:44 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«(5 => "bar")␤»
18:45 sorear TimToady: is foo("0" => "foo") magic now?
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18:46 TimToady I suspect only 0 => is, if the "" overrides the naminess
18:46 sorear TimToady: you just broke the old system for recognizing magic pairs (S06:713)
18:46 TimToady only specced string dwim for the run-time coercion
18:48 sorear TimToady: is \d+ '=>' <term> considered an "autoquoting" pair now?
18:48 moritz oh wow, the hotel wifi had a countdown from 24h... and then it was at 0, and disconnected
18:48 dalek specs: 0140a6f | larry++ | S06-routines.pod:
18:48 dalek specs: fix 0 => $arg naminess
18:48 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/0140a6f03e
18:48 moritz ... and then I could re-ologin with the exact same login data :-)
18:49 tadzik :)
18:49 sorear TimToady: clarification needed: is it legal to mix types, like foo($x, 0 => $y) ?
18:49 moritz colomon: there are a *lot*
18:49 moritz colomon: ... of tring spectest with :base etc.
18:49 moritz s/tring/trig/
18:49 colomon moritz: oh!
18:49 colomon let me take care of those.
18:49 tadzik yay, the spectests will run faster!
18:49 TimToady sorear: that would be a positional collision, so should complain
18:50 moritz oh wait, maybe :base is always named
18:50 TimToady (I suspect)
18:50 moritz ... or should be named?
18:50 moritz dunno
18:50 sorear TimToady: in the old system, named arguments bump positionals, like foo($y,$x)
18:50 colomon moritz: $base is positional, but ... making it named might make sense.
18:50 tadzik rakudo: say "   ==> and <==" ~~ / \h* <!before '=' \w> \N+ \n /
18:50 TimToady could argue it the other way too...
18:50 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«␤»
18:50 tadzik ...oh?
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18:51 moritz tadzik: no \n in the string
18:51 tadzik oh sure
18:51 tadzik rakudo: say "   ==> and <==\n" ~~ / \h* <!before '=' \w> \N+ \n /
18:51 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«   ==> and <==␤␤»
18:51 tadzik right
18:51 tadzik hrm, exactly the same piece of Pod works in gsocmess repo, fails when I moved the grammar into rakudo and ran the specetsts
18:51 tadzik bleh, spec-tests
18:52 sorear TimToady: when would the syntax foo(1 => ..., 0 => ...) be useful in source code?
18:52 moritz nqp-rx: say("   ==> and <==\n" ~~ / \h* <!before '=' \w> \N+ \n/);
18:52 TimToady sorear: for when a company establishes a stupid guideline that requires it :)
18:52 moritz nqprx: say("   ==> and <==\n" ~~ / \h* <!before '=' \w> \N+ \n/);
18:52 p6eval nqprx: OUTPUT«   ==> and <==␤␤»
18:53 TimToady or for when you really want to say one of the named arguments first
18:53 TimToady for endweight reasons, say
18:53 tadzik phenny: "sztuka dla sztuki"?
18:53 phenny tadzik: "art for art's sake" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
18:53 colomon moritz: if we no longer have named positionals, is there any point in those tests anymore?  those tests are essentially testing that the name is correct, if the non-named tests work then obviously explicit positional tests will work (or the compiler is broken).
18:53 tadzik googletranslate++
18:54 sorear +1 to remove
18:54 sorear TimToady: ok
18:54 TimToady or for a foolish consistency when there are lots of other named args
18:54 sorear TimToady: does Perl 6 require left to right evaluation?
18:55 sorear i.e. can foo(1 => bar(), 0 => baz()) be converted into foo(baz(), bar()); ?
18:55 TimToady I don't think arg separator comma enforces any order
18:57 TimToady though S, might :)
18:57 sorear does that extend fo foo() + bar() \equiv infix:<+>(foo(), bar()) \equiv bar() R+ foo() ?
18:58 sorear S still seems pretty handwavey to me.  Do not grok.
18:58 sorear oops
18:58 sorear I really have to go
18:58 TimToady o/
19:00 colomon oh noez, the Soperatives are on to sorear++
19:00 uniejo joined #perl6
19:00 TimToady but in general it seems best to me not to spec order of evaluation except for operators that explicitly promise such
19:01 uniejo left #perl6
19:02 TimToady that, and the implicit ordering implied by laziness, but that doesn't mean the "shell" of the lazy list is unevaluated
19:02 colomon TimToady: doesn't that run the risk of making Perl 6 programs evaluate in different ways depending on the compiler you're running it on?
19:03 TimToady that's always the case, if you rely on unspecced semantics :)
19:03 colomon .oO( the agony of side effects )
19:03 TimToady so write in an FP style and you won't have this problem so much :P
19:05 TimToady or make sure of your sequence points if you're relying on non-idempotence
19:07 TimToady maybe we can warn someday about side effects that are forced share a void context
19:07 TimToady *sink
19:08 mberends left #perl6
19:08 colomon Do you use S, to make sure of sequence points?
19:09 * TimToady waves hands in colomon's general direction
19:09 mberends joined #perl6
19:09 colomon :p
19:09 TimToady but that's one of the (possibly related) imagined uses of S
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19:40 pmichaud quick note:  commit 0140a6f (0 => $arg naminess)  seems to violate the notion of "avoid special cases"
19:41 pmichaud and the example of   doit :123<now>  looks like it has the potential to be especially confusing
19:41 pmichaud (perhaps make it clear that :123<now> is not a Pair
19:43 pmichaud I'll go back and scan the irclogs to see what prompted the update in the first place... gotta run for now though -- bbl
19:48 Mowah left #perl6
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19:58 tadzik if somebody didn't break spectest recently, gsoc-podparser would pass the spectests
19:58 mberends joined #perl6
19:58 tadzik (was that valid English?)
19:59 _jaldhar left #perl6
20:01 tylercurtis tadzik: I think "hadn't broken" instead of "didn't break" would be more correct.
20:02 tadzik that's the same conditional as in "if I had a lot of money I would buy a car", right?
20:02 tadzik That's the only example I remember
20:02 tadzik I always learned through "that feels right" instead of knowing the rules, but that results in situation like "hrm, that sounds wrong"
20:04 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/47164 -- the first one looks like a gsoc-podparser win
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20:17 dalek roast: 98727c8 | tadzik++ | S32- (3 files):
20:17 dalek roast: Fix plans
20:17 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/98727c857e
20:20 TimToady pmichaud: the original discussion was at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-05-21#i_3781961
20:22 thou left #perl6
20:23 jnthn colomon: I don't plan to do anything about it in master, however if anybody wants to then the patch I did in nom should make it relatively obvious what to do.
20:23 colomon how soon is r-nom going to land?  ;)
20:23 jnthn colomon: However the patch can't be applied to master as the binder in nom has changed too much due to the parameter/signature unification.
20:25 colomon jnthn & masak: ooo, nice position paper there.  :)
20:25 jnthn colomon: I'd love to land it for the June release, but it may take a little longer than that.
20:25 jnthn colomon: June has lots of red days.
20:25 jnthn colomon: Which will be conducive to hacking on nom. :)
20:26 colomon oh, for what's it's worth, I meant "land" in the rakudo-nom is hackable sense, not in the "replaces beta" sense.
20:26 jnthn oh!
20:26 jnthn Then sooner.
20:26 jnthn :)
20:27 * TimToady wonders in what sense it's not hackable now...
20:27 colomon TimToady: in my case it was the "cannot be built on OS X" sense, but that may have been fixed by now
20:28 tadzik I think 'hackable' is like 'it builds, and mere mortals can work towards fixing the tests'
20:28 colomon tadzik++
20:28 colomon or fixing its code.
20:28 jnthn TimToady: What tadzik said.
20:29 jnthn I need to put back methods and probably attributes before people can really dig in more :)
20:29 colomon that heady period last year where we had a zillion ng commits each day, because it was easy to hack on and make useful progress very quickly.
20:30 jnthn Right, that's the point I'm aiming at.
20:30 tadzik fun fun fun fun
20:30 colomon fun fun fun fun AND we can help lighten the load on jnthn++
20:31 jnthn :)
20:32 jnthn Hmm...huh. It builds on my laptop and not on my desktop... :/
20:32 * jnthn wonders whoz up with that
20:33 jnthn tadzik: Does current nom mostly build for you (e.g. up until the setting compilation fail)?
20:33 frettled jnthn: it's obvious that it requires personal warmth and tenderness
20:33 pamera left #perl6
20:34 jnthn frettled: Actually I can't use laptops while placed on my lap :)
20:34 jnthn frettled: My eyesight isn't good enough to see the screen properly without doing my back n.
20:34 jnthn *in
20:34 Tene phenny: ask masak whether he ever released his slides from yapc::ru
20:34 phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
20:34 Tene phthanks
20:35 moritz didn't he show a download link in here before the talk?
20:36 frettled jnthn: A not-so-classic case of PICNIC, then
20:37 frettled …though I have a weird image of a severely contorted jnthn, trying to peer closely at a laptop screen in his lap
20:38 Tene moritz: I wasn't watching IRC then
20:39 moritz jnthn: nom build fails with "Illegal option --vmlibs"
20:39 Tene moritz: he did; found it
20:39 Tene thanks
20:39 Tene phenny: tell masak nm; moritz mentioned that you already posted a link
20:39 phenny Tene: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
20:39 moritz jnthn: ...during the step home/moritz/p6/rakudo/parrot_install/bin/nqp --target=pir --output=src/gen/perl6-metamodel.pir --encoding=utf8 \ --vmlibs=perl6_ops src/gen/Metamodel.pm
20:40 moritz does that mean my nqp is too old?
20:40 moritz seems like
20:41 moritz (non-versioned dependencies)--
20:43 tadzik jnthn: mostly build, yes
20:43 tadzik jnthn: depends on how "current" is your current
20:43 tadzik jnthn: I'm now running the spectests on gsoc-podparser, and I'm not going to make my cpu cry even more
20:44 tadzik it's running make spectest for like 5th time today already
20:44 moritz Tene: jnthn asked about nom :-)
20:44 tadzik Tene: he did, I have them
20:44 tadzik (the slides)
20:44 tadzik oh, you already know that
20:46 jnthn moritz: Yes, means nqp is too old.
20:46 jnthn moritz: Feel free to implement the versioning.
20:46 Tene moritz: eh?  what about jnthn?
20:46 moritz Tene: sorry, meant to talk to tadzik
20:47 moritz jnthn: huh, "/perl6 --setting=NULL --target=pir --output=src/gen/CORE.setting.pir src/gen/CORE.setting" spits out PIR to STDOUT
20:48 tadzik moritz: what did you mean?
20:48 tadzik ha, it's official!
20:48 tadzik *drums drums drums*
20:48 tadzik gsoc-podparser passes more spectests than master \o/
20:49 moritz tadzik++
20:49 * moritz doesn't think coeherent anymore and should really sleep now
20:49 moritz good night
20:50 colomon o/
20:51 ymasory left #perl6
20:52 tadzik o/
20:55 thou joined #perl6
20:57 jnthn moritz: Yeah, debugging output.
20:57 jnthn moritz: I'll clear it up in a bit.
21:10 hercynium left #perl6
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: e11dd26 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we can install symbols that originate from other compilation units in lexicals.
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e11dd26ced
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 58b566b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Allow defining of previously stubbed packages. Also detect illegal redeclarations and whine.
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/58b566b68a
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: 7ab3578 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: Also need to allow composing things from another SC - it shouldn't ever really happen in real code but it does in the bootstrap.
21:17 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7ab3578ee2
21:20 ymasory joined #perl6
21:26 felher Hey folks. Is there a more explicit way of testing if $some_object is an instance of class X than smart-matching $some_object against X?
21:26 tadzik rakudo: my $a = "foo"; say $a.isa(Str)
21:26 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«1␤»
21:26 tadzik rakudo: my $a = "foo"; say $a.isa(Num)
21:26 p6eval rakudo 30ebf7: OUTPUT«0␤»
21:26 tadzik there we go
21:26 felher tadzik: Great. Thnx!
21:27 tadzik you're welcome :)
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21:46 PerlJam felher: smart matching is not "isa" anyway
21:48 felher PerlJam: Whats the difference between $object ~~ X, where X is a classname and $object.isa(X)?
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 45cfbca | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/MultipleInheritance.pm:
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Avoid tripping up over containers.
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/45cfbcafb9
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: 403525b | jnthn++ | / (7 files):
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: Add empty non-stub versions of various classes. We now generate PIR for the setting for the first time (e.g. this resolved the incomplete stubs errors). Sadly, said PIR doesn't actually compile just yet.
21:48 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/403525bd6f
21:53 jnthn felher: Probably none in terms of results. In master, the .isa is probably faster. In nom, the ~~ will probably be faster.
21:54 tadzik jnthn: why so?
21:56 PerlJam felher: $object ~~ X   is the same as $object.does(X), which is not quite the same semantics as $object.isa(X)  for all X  :)
21:59 jnthn tadzik: ~~ will hit the type check cache which handles the more general notion of acceptance.
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22:02 felher PerlJam: Ah, k, thnx. I guess i have to read a bit more about that. :)
22:04 felher jnthn: what is the 'nom'-branch? Is it kind of a 'experimental' branch?
22:06 jnthn felher: It's "next generation" of Rakudo, essentially. New meta-model, much more support for gradual typing, preparing the ground for many future optimizations.
22:08 felher jnthn: Sounds good. :) ty.
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 5ee5d8e | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: A little more sketching out of how we'll handle lazy magicals.
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5ee5d8e267
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: 0a91e5b | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: Need to load 6model guts. With this, we make it through the build for the first time.
22:09 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0a91e5b679
22:11 tadzik yay!
22:12 tadzik jnthn: I can't make it through the build
22:12 jnthn tadzik: Aww. Failure mode?
22:12 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/47165
22:13 jnthn Dang, that's what I get on my desktop too
22:13 jnthn Wonder what's different on my laptop...
22:13 tadzik what about a fresh clone?
22:13 jnthn What's on line 1343, ooc?
22:14 colomon perl Configure --gen-nqp  ?
22:14 jnthn ah, repr_bind_attr_str
22:14 jnthn I fixed that in nqp yesterday
22:15 jnthn tadzik: What colomon++ said.
22:15 jnthn wait, though...I did that...
22:15 colomon I was just asking if that was the way to build nom.  :)
22:16 jnthn colomon: Ah
22:16 jnthn colomon: Yes, plus --gen-parrot if you need a Parrot also.
22:16 colomon so like perl Configure --gen-parrot --gen-nqp    ?
22:16 jnthn Yes
22:16 alester left #perl6
22:17 * colomon hits ctrl-C and types that in.
22:18 pernatiy left #perl6
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22:20 jnthn colomon: fwiw, I suspect the OSX bug isn't resolved.
22:20 colomon thought I'd try, anyway.
22:20 tadzik jnthn: I think I have nqp installed, but will check
22:20 tadzik jnthn: yes it is
22:21 tadzik oh, but it's not todays
22:22 silug joined #perl6
22:23 jnthn hmm...something is odd.
22:23 colomon oh, great, have to deal with the PCRE bug too.  sigh.
22:23 jnthn oh hmm
22:24 colomon just need to dig out the command-line argument for it.
22:24 tadzik --without-pcre
22:25 jnthn tadzik: oh wtf...somehow --gen-nqp isn't actually getting the latest nqp
22:26 jnthn fixed.
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: 83a3b57 | jnthn++ | build/gen_nqp.pl:
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix --gen-nqp.
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/83a3b57fb0
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: e3e62e5 | jnthn++ | .gitignore:
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Update .gitignore.
22:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e3e62e5efe
22:38 zorgnax joined #perl6
22:39 zorgnax Is there a Perl6 infix calculator example anywhere?
22:39 Chillance left #perl6
22:39 ymasory joined #perl6
22:42 tadzik well, the Perl 6 executable is one
22:43 tadzik but I'm not aware of any
22:44 zorgnax Maybe Ill make one
22:44 zorgnax I dont see any clear example of one
22:46 tadzik you may want to look around for a Compiler-calculator from some pmichaud's talk
22:48 lumi_ left #perl6
22:49 jnthn tadzik: After the --gen-nqp fix, the build seems to be going better on my other machine now :)
22:49 tadzik jnthn: I'm not using --gen-nqp, and updating nqp helped
22:51 tadzik jnthn++ # it compiles!
22:51 tadzik so, where's the LHF? :P
22:52 jnthn tadzik: Add empty Code/Block/Routine/Sub/Method/Signature/Parameter in setting; see the patch where I added Mu/Any/Cool
22:53 tadzik how about all of what you listed? :)
22:54 colomon jnthn: woah.  I get a seg fault now when I build rakudo-nom
22:54 sorear good * #perl6
22:54 tadzik hello sorear
22:54 tadzik how did the final go, what was it?
22:54 colomon Users/colomon/tools/nom/rakudo/parrot_install/bin/nqp --target=pir --output=src/gen/perl6-grammar.pir --encoding=utf8  src/Perl6/Grammar.pm
22:54 colomon make: *** [Perl6/Grammar.pbc] Segmentation fault
22:55 jnthn colomon: I'm seeing that occasionally too :/
22:55 colomon jnthn: twice in a row for me, suggested cure?
22:55 jnthn colomon: Sadly, none - it needs some time with a debugger, I suspect.
22:55 jnthn colomon: Feel free to try and get a gdb backtrace if you are able to reproduce it reliably.
22:56 colomon trying valgrind now.  :)
22:57 sorear felher: $object ~~ X is actually closer to $object.^does(X)
22:57 sorear tadzik: well.  "english".
22:58 sorear jnthn: has the ~~ changes landed in rakudo/nom yet?
22:58 colomon changes?
22:58 tadzik sorear: isn't english your native language?
22:58 sorear 14:53 < jnthn> felher: Probably none in terms of results. In master, the .isa  is probably faster. In nom, the ~~ will probably be faster.
22:58 sorear 14:59 < jnthn> tadzik: ~~ will hit the type check cache which handles the more  general notion of acceptance.
22:59 tadzik jnthn: http://wklej.org/id/534389/ how is that?
23:00 sorear tadzik: in the US school system, "english" also includes things like analyzing texts and learning how to write papers
23:00 zorgnax left #perl6
23:00 sorear tadzik: do they distinguish that from "polski" where you live?
23:00 tadzik that's like Polish in Poland. But here, that usually ends in high school
23:00 tadzik sorear: yeah, it's quite equivalent
23:01 tadzik so, no, they don't distinguish it. But you don't study Polski anymore when studying on the University. Unless you are actually on Polonistyka
23:02 jnthn sorear: I don't even have operators yet. :)
23:02 tadzik phenny: "Polonistyka"?
23:02 phenny tadzik: "Polish Studies" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
23:02 tadzik yeah, whatever
23:02 jnthn tadzik: nearly; you_are_here should come last.
23:02 colomon jnthn: valgrinding now for real.  :)
23:03 tadzik jnthn: alright
23:04 tadzik jnthn: so once attributes and methods land, we could start filling those in?
23:04 felher sorear: yeah, thnx.  But i sure have to read http://perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html to understand what .^does means and what those meta-objects are.
23:04 jnthn tadzik: Yeah. Those are next on the nommap.
23:04 tadzik supercool
23:04 felher But not today. good night, folks.
23:05 colomon o/
23:05 tadzik g'night felher
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 4c68206 | tadzik++ | / (8 files):
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Add some new (empty) classes to CORE.setting
23:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4c68206635
23:08 jnthn tadzik: Thanks. :)
23:08 thou left #perl6
23:09 tadzik thanks too :)
23:09 mtk left #perl6
23:10 Woody2143 left #perl6
23:10 tadzik should I also add everything else, like Rat, Complex, IO etc?
23:11 tadzik not sure if there's really a point in that :)
23:11 jnthn tadzik: Yeah, not that much point yet.
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 0f60ad2 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ModuleLoader.pm:
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Make setting's use Perl6::Metamodel function.
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f60ad2d52
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: 3eae147 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix package compilation up a bit.
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3eae147a61
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: dff1ae8 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: Toss incorrect CHECK-time. Also, get us closer to actual being able to run something.
23:12 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dff1ae8461
23:12 lumi_ joined #perl6
23:13 Woody2143 joined #perl6
23:14 jnthn Oops, gotta teach in the morning
23:14 jnthn sleep &
23:17 _jaldhar joined #perl6
23:17 tadzik g'night
23:18 colomon arrrrgh.  I think it worked fine under valgrind.
23:18 mtk joined #perl6
23:21 daniel-s joined #perl6
23:22 wamba left #perl6
23:25 sorear pmichaud: ping
23:26 sorear daniel-s: hi
23:26 daniel-s hey
23:26 * daniel-s is cold
23:26 * sorear hugs
23:27 * PerlJam resists the urge to shout "hug pile!"
23:27 daniel-s lol
23:27 daniel-s google says it's 12C outside
23:27 tadzik is the game "grenade" known to you? It was quite popular back in the scouting dys
23:27 daniel-s ...google exaggerates
23:28 tadzik daniel-s: that's so nerdy. You could open the window
23:28 sorear Where I live, it's never even 1 C outside.
23:28 sorear :/
23:29 daniel-s tadzik, and look outside? perish the thought! I might get a ray of sunlight on my skin or even breath fresh air
23:29 tadzik ;)
23:29 sorear just get a cheap thermometer
23:29 sorear the kind with a bimetallic coil and a needle need no batteries and are pretty much indestructable
23:29 tadzik heh, I've worn a long pants for the first time in a week today, and I was boiling
23:30 PerlJam It's 31C where I am ... and that's cool for this time of the year.
23:31 awoodland left #perl6
23:31 colomon 22C here, and that's about normal, though it's disturbingly humid
23:34 ymasory left #perl6
23:34 colomon got a core dump, anyway...
23:35 tadzik I like it when I use valgrind to catch a segfault, and valgrind survives the segfault
23:36 sorear 62 outside, but I live in backwardland where the degrees are smaller
23:36 colomon backwardland++
23:37 PerlJam sorear: Just check the thing that displays temperature in celcius and you're good to go  ;)
23:37 colomon I asked google to translate to C for me.  :)
23:38 colomon https://gist.github.com/987868 is my backtrace (nom crash)
23:38 sorear PerlJam: the bimetallic coil thermometer outside is only marked in F.
23:38 sorear also, I think it's at least as old as I am.
23:39 yegor joined #perl6
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23:46 yegor left #perl6
23:48 sorear phenny: tell pmichaud How hard do you intend to fight 1 => $foo ?  I'd rather not be implementing it if it will go away soon.
23:48 phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
23:49 TimToady surely it's how hard pmichaud++ fights relative to how hard /me fights... :)
23:54 PerlJam What's wrong with 1 => $foo   ?
23:55 sorear PerlJam: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-05-23#i_3791367

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