Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-05-28

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:43 sorear Is it just my imagination, or was there at one point a full sextet of infix operators, div, mod, divrem, quot, rem, quotrem?
01:46 TimToady It's your imagination
01:50 TimToady my hope is that we can have polymorphic literals like Go does
01:50 TimToady in which case we might allow initializing a Buf with an ASCII literal
01:53 TimToady see, for instance, S03:3688
01:54 TimToady basically you can't treat a Buf as anything other than ASCII without more info
01:56 sorear TimToady: does eval "use latin1; say '¢'".encode("latin1") make any sense?
01:56 dalek niecza: b013b3d | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
01:56 dalek niecza: Remove the indirection between nam names and method names
01:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b013b3d9e4
01:56 dalek niecza: 6c52f02 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
01:56 dalek niecza: Implement div/mod
01:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6c52f02bd6
01:56 TimToady not without a closing quote "   :P
01:57 sorear ...those quotes look balanced to me.
01:57 TimToady oh, okay, I see it
01:57 TimToady but why are you encoding the result of say as latin?
01:58 TimToady *1
01:58 TimToady oh, you're not
01:58 TimToady sorry, been a long day
01:58 * TimToady should learn to read
01:58 TimToady I don't think eval needs to run on a Latin-1 buf, no
01:59 TimToady the only way to make that work would be to have a latin1 buf type
02:00 TimToady and as far as I recall, we only ever set up a utf8 buf type
02:00 TimToady so you can't just assume you know the encoding of any random buf8
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02:14 sorear TimToady: does it make sense to have pragmas set the source encoding?
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02:15 sorear perl6: say (given 5 { when Int { $_ * 2 } })
02:15 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "given"␤    expecting expression or ")"␤    postfix op␤    at /tmp/i6zNNaSOsq line 1, column 6␤»
02:15 p6eval ..rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«10␤»
02:15 p6eval ..niecza v5-97-g5967651: OUTPUT«␤»
02:15 sorear interesting
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02:16 sorear I will have to study what rakudo is doing to make that happen
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02:54 sorear rakudo: 9.sqrt.WHAT.say
02:54 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
03:13 sorear TimToady: do you have anything to say about <<+>> parsing?
03:16 sorear nevermind, I see the issue
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03:19 dalek niecza: 0163f97 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
03:19 dalek niecza: Add Cool.abs, sqrt, postfix:<i>, Hash.Numeric
03:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0163f978ab
03:19 dalek niecza: 93cb7df | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
03:19 dalek niecza: Initial prototype (Perl6) implementation of hyperops
03:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/93cb7dff20
03:19 dalek niecza: beb5018 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
03:19 dalek niecza: Fix parsing of <<+>>
03:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/beb5018a95
03:26 dalek roast: 5180aec | util++ | S (9 files):
03:26 dalek roast: Fix typos.
03:26 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5180aecf26
03:33 dalek niecza: 33ef6e6 | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
03:33 dalek niecza: Any numifies to 0
03:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/33ef6e6534
03:34 dalek niecza: edb7aab | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
03:34 dalek niecza: Add hyper.t as a passing test file
03:34 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/edb7aab9c0
03:34 dalek roast: 47f2ea2 | sorear++ | S03-metaops/hyper.t:
03:34 dalek roast: Fudge S03-metaops/hyper.t for niecza
03:34 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/47f2ea26d2
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03:54 sorear What would be some more cool things to do before Monday?
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04:04 sorear nothing on my TODO is looking very -Ofun at the moment,
04:04 sorear .
04:05 dalek roast: 4a30726 | util++ | S (3 files):
04:05 dalek roast: Fix more typos.
04:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4a30726777
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04:43 dalek roast: 1661645 | sorear++ | S03-metaops/hyper.t:
04:43 dalek roast: Fix more typos.
04:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/16616457b7
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05:41 dalek niecza: e8768a7 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
05:41 dalek niecza: Draft v6 announcement
05:41 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e8768a7154
05:41 sorear I would like people to read that... it'll be posted in 3 days
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06:02 sorear I would also like people to suggest directions
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06:47 TiMBuS http://dev.perl.org/perl6/rfc/175.html reading this makes me whaleface all over the place
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06:51 sorear hello TiMBuS
06:51 TiMBuS hello
06:52 sorear what's your favorite Perl 6 feature that nobody's bothered to implement yet?
06:53 TiMBuS async{}/threads
06:53 TiMBuS ok thats not a perl 6 feature but, itd be nice.
06:54 TiMBuS hmmmm thats tough. almost all of the 'cool' parts of perl 6 are done now.. macros maybe?
06:56 * sorear doesn't like the new Mono profiler.
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06:58 TiMBuS has niecza got threads?
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07:32 sorear TiMBuS: yes
07:38 cxreg following S17?
07:38 sorear no
07:38 sorear S17 is a joke
07:38 cxreg i thought so
07:38 sorear Woods and Lyon would be proud
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07:44 cxreg so what type of model have you got?
07:44 sorear a KISS one
07:45 sorear paper-thin wrapper over the CLR model, which happens to be basically exactly the same as Java, Windows, and pthreads
07:45 cxreg "whatever was easiest for the CLR to give me" ?
07:45 cxreg heh.
07:45 cxreg so yes, then.  totally reasonable.
07:49 TiMBuS s17 is basically coro
07:49 TiMBuS at least, the sensible parts are basically coro
07:50 sorear hmm, google doesn't seem to be able to find the work of "Woods and Lyon" without help
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07:54 mberends sorear: I would like to see NativeCall for niecza, to enble us to try to do zavolaj-ish things, including callbacks for GUI work.
07:54 cxreg to other managed code, or to somehow escape the prison?
07:55 cxreg I have no idea how jailed CLR code is
07:57 sorear CLR code is jailed quite optionally
07:57 sorear remember, this is Microsoft we're talking about; they consider the Windows API their #1 asset, due to its developer lockin functionality
07:58 sorear a jail was added when Silverlight came out.  for an afterthought it's not too horrible
07:58 cxreg heh
08:07 sorear good night
08:10 mberends 'night
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08:16 masak dearest #perl6! I greet you.
08:17 mberends and I, for one, welcome our rakudobuging overlord.
08:17 tadzik be greeted too, thouh shan't come to #perl6 ungreeted
08:18 masak I bow to your collective eloquence, good sirs.
08:18 masak 'tis a fine thing that IRC is such a refined and sophisticated place.
08:19 mberends verily
08:21 tadzik shame is that only infinitesimal amount of places are to hold a heritage like this
08:22 mberends that's fine. if everywhere were like here, this place would not be special.
08:23 tadzik touche
08:24 * mberends noms a norange
08:24 tadzik norange, like a very close?
08:24 tadzik 'oh!
08:24 mberends heh
08:24 * tadzik picks of monocle
08:24 tadzik masak: how you doing, good sir?
08:24 mberends about to nom a nother orange
08:25 tadzik nother, like somewhere else?
08:25 masak mberends: you mean 'norange' :P
08:25 masak tadzik: I'm still recovering after a somewhat hectic week following the vacation. :) but I knew it was going to be like this.
08:26 masak tadzik: how are you doing?
08:26 masak mberends: you, you already covered that topic... :P
08:26 * masak too slow
08:27 mberends :P
08:28 masak sorry 'bount that, nuncle.
08:29 mberends know problem
08:29 tadzik masak: enjoying the last moments of chill I am given. I ought to finish gsocwork and then prepare for one of the more monstrous weeks of the semester
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08:33 masak tadzik: sounds like a plan.
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08:36 tadzik target=past is broken, isn't in?
08:37 masak it was in nom last I tried.
08:37 tadzik I'm thinking of master now
08:37 masak er, in nqp, I mean.
08:38 tadzik looks like make_variable is what I'd want to use
08:40 isBEKaml holafolks!
08:41 tadzik one usually uses ":node($/)" in PAST::Var creations. What if a variable I want to create is not assosiaced with any piece of code?
08:41 isBEKaml notquitalazysaturday,Isee.  :D
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08:42 tadzik bah. Hola, isBEKaml
08:43 isBEKaml tadzik: how goes thou? gsoc-work?
08:44 tadzik isBEKaml: aye
08:45 tadzik what PAST does @a.push('foo') produce?
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08:46 tadzik oh, there is :pasttype<callmethod>
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08:48 isBEKaml tadzik: ah, have fun!
08:50 tadzik I do :)
08:50 tadzik If only Rakudo compiled _a_bit_ faster
08:50 isBEKaml I can actually understand that putting into context my _ancient_ machine. :D
08:51 tadzik std: say $=POD.WHAT
08:51 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
08:51 isBEKaml that partially explains why I can never be as active on this as I would like to be.
08:51 tadzik rakudo: my $=POD; say $=POD.WHAT
08:51 isBEKaml :(
08:51 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$=POD.WHAT"␤»
08:51 tadzik gotcha, rakudo
08:52 tadzik I hope no one, nowhere, uses $*POD in his/her code
08:52 tadzik at least for now :)
08:53 isBEKaml tadzik: whoa, one thing I do know. if you commit some trade-offs at the start, it'll *bite* you later. :)
08:53 isBEKaml std: say $=WTF.WHAT
08:53 p6eval std 4b1b100: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
08:53 tadzik isBEKaml: well, the proper $=POD is scheduled for like a month from now :)
08:53 isBEKaml hmm, so that's valid pod6 format.
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08:54 isBEKaml tadzik: looking forward to it! :)
08:55 isBEKaml rakudo: say $=WTF
08:55 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at line 22, near "$=WTF"␤»
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08:58 tadzik where are PAST::Nodes documented
08:58 tadzik ?
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08:59 tadzik looks like http://docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/docs/pdds/pdd26_ast.pod.html
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09:16 tadzik developing Rakudo is fun. I change two lines in the compiler, fire 'make test' and I can go do the laundry, nom, clean up the room..
09:16 felher Hey folks. Why is my @array an Array but my %hash only does a Hash? In other words: Why is Array a class but Hash a role?
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09:23 masak felher: I don't think it's ever been established whether Array and Hash should be classes or roles.
09:24 masak felher: but Hash has probably been made a role so that it can be parameterized on the type of its values.
09:24 masak same could be done for Array, of course.
09:25 masak (hm, or is Hash parameterized on the type of its keys?)
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09:26 felher masak: Ah, k. I just wondered why @array.isa(Array) works like a charm but %hash.isa(Hash) doesnt, while @array.does(Array) doesn't work but %hash.does(Hash) does. :) I guess i should use ~~ instead of .isa and .does :)
09:26 masak felher: yes, always use ~~ for type checks.
09:27 felher masak: k, thnx. :)
09:27 masak it abstracts over *how* something is of a certain type. :)
09:27 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; say C ~~ A
09:27 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
09:28 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; subset D of C {}; say D ~~ A
09:28 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "subset D o"␤»
09:28 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; subtype D of C {}; say D ~~ A
09:28 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "subtype D "␤»
09:28 masak hm.
09:29 masak been away from Perl 6 for too long ÖP
09:29 masak :P
09:29 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; subtype D of C; say D ~~ A
09:29 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &of␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/D1xPMnA5dN␤»
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09:29 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; subtype D of C where 1; say D ~~ A
09:29 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "subtype D "␤»
09:30 masak rakudo: role A {}; class B does A {}; class C is B {}; subset D of C; say D ~~ A
09:30 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
09:30 masak \o/
09:30 daniel-s hey
09:31 tadzik hey
09:31 * daniel-s has news
09:31 daniel-s I just had a jiu jitsu comp
09:31 daniel-s I beat 2 of 3 guys
09:31 daniel-s lost 2 - 0 to the other guy on points
09:32 daniel-s :(
09:33 tadzik how do I efficiently create a new Array in PAST?
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09:35 pmurias daniel-s: on a takedown?
09:35 daniel-s nah, the organisers were using different scoring
09:36 daniel-s I think it was for a guard pass and mount
09:36 tadzik masak: http://nopaste.snit.ch/48185 does anything look wrong here to you?
09:36 daniel-s he was only on top of me for like a moment though, then I got him off and onto his back straight away
09:37 tadzik masak: seems like autovification is not working for some reason
09:40 masak tadzik: looking
09:40 masak tadzik: that piece of PIR doesn't tell me much at all.
09:41 masak what does it do? what is it meant to do?
09:42 tadzik masak: it's supposed to be 'my $POD = []; $POD.push(42)"
09:42 tadzik I'm now trying binding Array.new to $POD
09:43 masak rakudo: my $POD = []; $POD.push(42); say $POD.perl
09:43 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«[42]␤»
09:43 masak wfm
09:44 tadzik Yeah, but I need to produce it using PAST, not Perl6 code :)
09:44 masak oh, and you can't generate the PAST for the above because --target=PAST is broken?
09:45 tadzik yeah
09:45 masak why not clone an older version of Rakudo where --target=PAST worked, and try it there?
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09:45 tadzik and --target=pir for the new tryout is using &infix<:=> which is LTA too
09:45 tadzik has it ever worked?
09:45 masak --target=PAST? I'm pretty sure it has.
09:45 masak at some point.
09:46 tadzik ohwait, I think I made it working
09:46 tadzik at least it doesn't crash
09:46 masak \o/
09:47 tadzik hrm
09:48 tadzik when I create a new variable, do I need to let Actions.pm know about it somehow?
09:48 tadzik Guess compile-time variable-not-found check is biting my hand now
09:50 tadzik hrm
09:51 tadzik looks like the code I created goes _after_ the user-code
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09:54 masak where do you want it to go?
09:56 tadzik before :) I'm now looking at wrap_option_n_code and creating something similar for pod
09:57 tadzik so one day we may want to not call it, and also ignore any other pod actions to not add runtime hit when not using --doc
09:58 felher If i have 'my $array = Array.new(1,2,3,4)' i can not use 'for $array { do_something; }' to do something with every element in the array. I know that i can use 'for @($array) { do_someting; }'. But is @($array) the way to go or is there a better one?
10:02 masak felher: I ususally go with $array.list
10:03 masak felher: the general rule is that it's treated as an item if the sigil is scalar and you don't convert it somehow, like with @() or .list
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10:04 felher masak: thnx. :) Are the methods of the Array-Class documented somewhere?
10:05 tadzik somewhat
10:05 tadzik felher: http://perlcabal.org/syn/S32/Containers.html#Array
10:07 tadzik Method 'push' not found for invocant of class 'Array'
10:07 * tadzik scratches head
10:08 tadzik and I can't even --target=pir that
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10:16 felher tadzik: thnx. :)
10:17 tadzik felher: you're welcome :)
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11:06 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/536590/ lines 69 and forth. If I have $POD like this, how do I access it in Perl 6 code? $POD, $::POD all result in "variable $POD not predeclared"
11:07 masak superficially, that makes sense, I guess.
11:08 masak it hasn't been created as part of the regular lexpad installation.
11:08 masak I'm sure either jnthn or pmichaud could be of more help here.
11:08 tadzik it's supposed to be package-scoped
11:09 masak right, but the *parser* doesn't know about the variable.
11:09 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/536597/ that's the patch
11:09 tadzik masak: the PAST::Compiler is generating the message
11:09 masak that's my point.
11:09 tadzik or that's what ack said
11:09 tadzik hmm
11:11 masak I imagine you're making a new variable, but the parser keeps its own list of variables it considers "declared", and yous isn't on that list.
11:11 tadzik yeah, makes senst
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11:15 JimmyZ hello masak
11:15 masak JimmyZ: 你好
11:16 JimmyZ rakudo: my @a; say @a[2]; # 这个输出的结果正确吗?
11:16 p6eval rakudo 0d3c71: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
11:18 masak JimmyZ: 是
11:19 masak 未分配的 Array 元素是“Any“
11:19 JimmyZ
11:20 JimmyZ 我以为是 Mu
11:20 masak 不是
11:20 masak Mu 太笼统
11:21 masak 它没有 postfix:<++> 等
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11:22 JimmyZ Any does Mu, 对吧?
11:22 Chillance joined #perl6
11:22 masak 对, Any is Mu
11:23 masak 还 Junction is Mu
11:23 JimmyZ
11:23 masak 他们一起坐在层次结构的顶部。
11:25 JimmyZ 你的中文讲的不错
11:25 masak 这样, Junction 调度实际上是 type-based 的。
11:25 Chillance left #perl6
11:25 masak Google Translate 中文讲的不错 ^^
11:26 JimmyZ :)
11:26 ingy o/ 你好Perl六
11:27 masak \o ingy-山
11:27 ingy haha
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11:27 ingy masak ♥ my 山
11:28 masak (don't know whether 山 actually corresponds to the Japanese honorific "san".)
11:28 masak (probably not)
11:28 ingy it's mountain
11:28 ingy shan
11:28 masak yeah, I know.
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11:28 masak so the sound is similar anyway.
11:28 ingy not really :)
11:29 masak phenny: en to ch "ingy-san"?
11:29 masak phenny: en to zh "ingy-san"?
11:29 masak how does one write "-san" in Japanese?
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11:30 ingy is yaml banned from perl六?
11:30 masak banned? in what sense?
11:30 ingy I think I saw it got removed
11:30 ingy is it wanted back?
11:30 masak removed? from where?
11:31 * masak confused
11:31 ingy I think from star
11:31 masak ah.
11:31 ingy it was probably broked
11:31 masak that's not perl六, that's a Rakudo distribution :)
11:31 masak probably pmichaud knows the reason for the borking. possibly the backlogs have the answer, too.
11:31 ingy yeah but it was funnerer to type 六
11:32 ingy ok
11:33 masak you could have written 楽園 :)
11:34 masak oh, it's 楽土. lue++
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11:42 tadzik is it possible to compile Grammar, Actions, and then just use the old core.pir instead of generating the new one?
11:42 tadzik or does Grammar and Actions go into core.pm too?
11:45 tadzik is pir::say("foo") illegal in Actions.pm? I added one in a method, and the build dies: http://wklej.org/id/536615/
11:48 masak tadzik: you keep showing only either your patch or its effects :P
11:48 masak tadzik: they're supposed to come in pairs...
11:49 tadzik :)
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11:52 tadzik I'm gonna let it crash and will paste the patch then
11:53 masak apparently "san" is written さん in Japanese.
11:53 masak that's... Hiragana, I guess. wonder if there's a Kanji spelling too.
11:54 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/536622/ line 54 and along
11:56 masak indeed.
11:56 silug left #perl6
11:56 masak maybe it's pir::say_p or pir::say_s or something funny like that.
11:56 silug joined #perl6
11:56 masak or maybe it's nqp:: nowadays?
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11:58 tadzik dunno,trying the PAST::Op version
12:04 tadzik okay, it compiled, but the actual call is nowhere. Is that because the rule containing pod_content is not calling .ast on it anywhere?
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12:05 tadzik I wonder if pod_* rules should now belong to the statement-related rules, rather than to comment/whitespace related ones
12:06 Tedd1 left #perl6
12:07 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
12:08 tadzik good morning pmichaud
12:08 tadzik oh, pmichaud, I have a question for you
12:08 tadzik pmichaud: could you peek at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-05-28#i_3816148 in some spare time?
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12:13 masak morning, pm!
12:17 pmichaud tadzik: I'm not sure that patch can be correct
12:19 pmichaud it's creating an empty array in $::POD  right after the INIT phase
12:20 pmichaud (i.e., at the beginning of the mainline execution)
12:21 tadzik yes
12:21 pmichaud so..... it'll always be empty, right?
12:22 tadzik unless something is added to it later
12:22 pmichaud what would be adding to it?
12:22 tadzik the action methods for pod nodes
12:22 pmichaud note:  INIT phase
12:22 pmichaud by the time you get to the INIT phase, the action nodes are long gone
12:23 pmichaud program sequence is roughly    BEGIN - compile - CHECK - INIT - run - END
12:23 pmichaud by the time you reach INIT, compiling has already been completed.
12:23 tadzik I thought the plan is to make the pod tree built in runtime, until we have proper serialization. So pod nodes will generate PAST nodes adding stuff to $POD
12:23 tadzik then the code gets generated, and the $POD is filled in in runtime
12:24 pmichaud is that the plan?  that sounds... not really useful.
12:24 tadzik I thought it's the plan
12:24 tadzik surely a better way would be to build the whole tree in compile time and then just expose it to runtime
12:24 pmichaud that's what I would think.
12:25 pmichaud (that's kinda what I expected it)
12:25 pmichaud s/it//
12:25 tadzik yeah, but how would one achieve that?
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12:25 pmichaud a :loadinit node that sets the tree would work
12:25 Moukeddar Hello :) O/
12:26 pmichaud it could run at CHECK time, or perhaps even earlier.
12:27 tadzik so the plan is: build the whole tree in compile-time, then expose the object using :loadinit somehow?
12:27 pmichaud or, all of the action methods for pod could generate BEGIN blocks (or one big BEGIN block)
12:30 tadzik what is the loadinit anyway, is it documented somewhere? I guess it's something like "evaluate this just before the end of the compile time"?
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12:30 pmichaud :loadinit is "evaluate this as soon as it's loaded"
12:30 pmichaud it's a part of PAST
12:31 pmichaud but I think BEGIN/CHECK blocks are what you really ought to aim for
12:31 tadzik so the very beginning of runtime?
12:31 pmichaud BEGIN/CHECK will handle any :loadinit management for you ( as well as being more portable )
12:31 masak hi Moukeddar.
12:32 Moukeddar how are you doing Mr ?
12:32 masak Moukeddar: fine. and you?
12:32 Moukeddar feeling awesome :)
12:32 pmichaud :loadinit occurs even before "runtime"
12:32 masak Moukeddar: had any Perl 6 thoughts recently?
12:32 pmichaud :loadinit is more like "BEGIN time"
12:33 Moukeddar i haven't touched any  editor in 2 months :)
12:33 tadzik mhm
12:33 Moukeddar 4 more weeks and i'm free :)
12:34 Moukeddar the exams are keeping me busy
12:34 tadzik that's like with me
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12:46 mberends so where this Pod is heading, users will soon notice "the more Pod I write, the longer my program takes to run. I'll write as little Pod as possible".  I have been afraid of this since I first read S26. I think the solution is to only engage in Pod parsing if there is a 'use Pod;' statement in the program.
12:48 pmurias mberends: isn't the problem a result of a sluggish pod parser?
12:49 mberends pmurias: partly, and also partly forcing the startup to do potentially unnecessary work.
12:49 pmichaud how up-to-date is the current S26?
12:49 mberends Pod parsing should somehow be lazy.
12:50 mberends pmichaud: it's complete, nobody is holding back patches afaik.
12:51 pmichaud mberends: I don't think that parsing pod will be significantly slower than parsing any other part of a Perl 6 program
12:52 mberends pmichaud: ok, that makes sense
12:52 pmichaud yes, some things should be lazy if we can make them so.... but the basic parse shouldn't be an issue.
12:54 mberends in most other languages, parsing comments or docs is *much* faster than parsing the program code though.
12:54 pmichaud ...parsing, or compiling?
12:55 pmichaud parsing program code can be fairly fast too
12:55 pmichaud in most other languages, the comments are simply stripped
12:55 pmichaud and that's why it's faster
12:56 pmichaud here, we propose the comments to actually add some semantic meaning to the program
12:57 mberends I've written a tokenizer in C where comments and whitespace are not stripped, but passed as annotation to the downstream code.
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13:42 dalek rakudo: 2ad1b52 | pmichaud++ | src/builtins/ (2 files):
13:42 dalek rakudo: Fix Parcel.item, remove Seq.new_from_RPA (added in 037775e).
13:42 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2ad1b5229c
13:42 tadzik mberends: the parser rules existing now won't probably change, the rest of the stuff will probably end up in action methods, and those can be easily nooped when we're not using --doc
13:43 tadzik and the rpbench on gsoc-podparser now is as fast (or: as slow) as master
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13:50 pmichaud did I run rpbench using the coretests for that one?
13:51 pmichaud at the moment it's hard to say "as fast as" or "as slow as" because very few of the test files have significant pod comments.
13:52 sorear good * #perl6
13:53 tadzik true
13:54 masak good *, sorear.
13:55 tadzik hello sorear
13:55 pmurias sorear: hi
13:56 sorear masak! hi.
13:57 sorear hmm.  I wonder *how* we should be writing Rakudo...
13:57 dalek rakudo: 64178b4 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
13:57 dalek rakudo: Move Parcel.hash out of PIR and into core setting.
13:57 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/64178b4448
13:57 dalek rakudo: c7c6779 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
13:57 dalek rakudo: Comments update -- no functional changes.
13:57 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c7c6779414
13:57 tadzik I'm fine with the capital R
13:59 sorear masak: [mountain] is on-pronounced exactly the same as -san
13:59 sorear masak: the object called fu-ji-san had me quite confused for a while
14:00 sorear however the honorific is normally (always?) hiragana
14:00 sorear [mountain] by itself is normally /yama/ though.  (Have you learned about on and kun yet?)
14:03 dalek rakudo: 30809a2 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Itera (2 files):
14:03 dalek rakudo: Comment updates -- no functional changes.
14:03 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30809a2a78
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14:12 masak sorear: no, I don't know about on and kun.
14:14 * sorear has decided ey does not like the new mono 2.10.x profiler
14:18 masak sorear: you're the only person I've met outside of a Nomic game who uses Spivak pronouns in English.
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14:51 sorear masak: is it not a shame?
14:56 masak sorear: don't stand too close, my apathy may be contagious. :) worthy cause (as is often the case), small chances of ever catching on.
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14:58 masak then again, if Nomic players manage to take over the world somehow...
15:00 sorear I didn't voluntarily start, it just sort of happened after I spent too long in a channel where it was the norm
15:00 sorear but it's awesome, so.
15:03 pmichaud autotrim....
15:04 pmichaud > my @a = 'a'..'z';
15:04 pmichaud a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
15:04 pmichaud > say @a[1,3,5 ... *]
15:04 pmichaud bdfhjlnprtvxz
15:04 pmichaud > say @a[1,4,7 ... *]
15:04 pmichaud behknqtwz
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15:07 sorear How does it work?
15:07 sorear How happy are you with the design?
15:07 pmichaud it trims when the series is detectably infinite
15:07 pmichaud there are some issues -- for example:
15:08 pmichaud say @a[1,3,5 ... +@a]    # not yet detectably infinite
15:09 pmichaud however, that can be fixed with
15:09 pmichaud say @a[1,3,5 ... +@a, *]   # detectably infinite
15:10 pmichaud (might need parens)
15:11 pmichaud there would still be an issue with something like    @a[1,3,5 ... @a/2]     though
15:12 pmichaud so that would have to be written  @a[1, 3, 5 ... * > @a/2]   or something like that
15:17 masak pmichaud: that feels quite consistent with how sequences work outside of .[] anyway.
15:18 pmichaud basically, a range or sequence ending with whatever star ends up being "infinite", and thus the slice autotrims
15:18 pmichaud one can also autotrim from any parcel
15:18 masak sounds like an easy rule to follow.
15:19 pmichaud @a[@indices, *]   # autotrims at the first element of @indices that is beyond the end of @a
15:19 pmichaud so
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15:20 pmichaud > my @a = <a b c d>;  my @indices = 1..10; '';
15:20 pmichaud > say @a[@indices].elems;
15:20 pmichaud 10
15:20 pmichaud > say @a[@indices,*].elems
15:20 pmichaud 3
15:20 pmichaud >
15:21 pmichaud might be an issue there if all(@indices) < +@a  though
15:30 tadzik hrm, why is 'has $.a' 'has $a' in nqp?
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15:43 pmichaud nqp, or nqp-rx?
15:44 pmichaud nqp-rx doesn't have private attributes or accessor generation.
15:45 tadzik nqp
15:45 pmichaud I don't know -- you'd have to ask jnthn++ I think.
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15:51 tadzik does nqp have something like PERL6LIB?
15:51 pmichaud I don't know if it has it yet
15:51 pmichaud (it certainly will at some point)
15:52 tadzik I'm translating my gsocmess parser to nqp, for it will need to be nqp anyway to land in Rakudo one day
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15:54 pmichaud I don't know that that's true, but okay.
15:54 tadzik well, the action methods can't really be Perl 6, can they
15:54 tadzik ?
15:54 pmichaud at present, they're nqp
15:54 tadzik in Rakudo, now
15:54 pmichaud in Rakudo master, now, they're nqp-rx
15:55 pmichaud if you mean that you're translating your nqp-rx version to nqp, that's correct.
15:55 pmichaud if you mean that you're putting pod parsing into nqp itself... I'm not sure about that.  :)
15:55 tadzik nope, I'm translating my Perl 6 version to nqp-any :)
15:55 pmichaud okay, wfm
15:55 tadzik well, that would be interesting somehow :)
15:56 tadzik is nqp-rx capable of 'use foo'?
15:56 pmichaud no.
15:57 tadzik so if I wanted to rewrite the parser to nqp-rx, I'll need to include it in every test file?
15:57 pmichaud I don't understand.
15:58 tylercurtis tadzik: nqp-rx use pir::load_bytecode to load PBCs, IIRC.
15:58 sorear pmichaud: do you know much about 'ctmo' or do I need to ping jnthn?
15:58 pmichaud sorear: you'd need to ping jnthn
15:58 sorear jnthn: ping
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16:09 Aridai rakudo: say 23 + 23
16:09 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«46␤»
16:10 Aridai rakudo: "Hello".say
16:10 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
16:15 sorear Aridai: welcome
16:15 Aridai sorear, Hello
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16:20 Aridai How do I print the items form a hash?
16:24 tylercurtis rakudo: my %hash = 1 => 2, 3 => 4; for %hash.kv -> $k, $v { say "$k => $v" }
16:24 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«1 => 2␤3 => 4␤»
16:24 tylercurtis Aridai: ^^
16:24 Aridai rakudo: my %h = "car" => 3, "sun" => 34; %h.perl  I've tried somthing like this.
16:24 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "%h.perl  I"␤»
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16:28 tylercurtis rakudo: my %h = "car" => 1, "sun" => 34; say %h.perl;
16:28 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«{"car" => 1, "sun" => 34}␤»
16:28 tylercurtis I don't actully see how what I did differs from what you tried, though...
16:31 sorear tylercurtis: Aridai forgot to include # before the comment
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16:31 tylercurtis Oh, yes.
16:31 sorear also, Aridai forgot the ".say
16:31 sorear "
16:32 dalek niecza: 176cbba | sorear++ | TODO:
16:32 dalek niecza: Eval programme
16:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/176cbbae53
16:32 dalek niecza: 202659e | sorear++ | / (7 files):
16:32 dalek niecza: Remove some redundant allocations from list iteration
16:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/202659e04a
16:32 dalek niecza: e6af5b8 | sorear++ | perf/ (2 files):
16:32 dalek niecza: New microbenchmarks from STD analysis
16:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e6af5b8311
16:33 tylercurtis sorear: I noticed that. I was just confused by why that difference would cause a parse error (since I didn't notice the lack of #).
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16:34 Util New RC solution: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Gray_code#Perl_6
16:36 tadzik is there something like s/// in nqp?
16:37 tadzik (nqp-rx)
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16:38 Aridai tylercurtis, I fogat to put the semicolon.
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16:41 tylercurtis tadzik: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/master/src/setting/Regex.pm#L30
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16:42 tadzik oh, this way. Thanks tylercurtis
16:42 tylercurtis tadzik: here's the test: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/master/t/setting/05-subst.t
16:50 tadzik is there any set of conditions under which passing $/ to a method will count as two parameters?
16:50 tadzik if I call self.any_block(), it's "1 parameter passed, 2 expected". self.any_block($/) becomes "3 parameters passed, 2 expected"
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16:59 masak tadzik: you sure the two errors are for the same invocation?
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17:07 masak Util: nice use of the bitwise operators.
17:07 TBA how can i dynamically import a package/class at runtime? something along the lines of "use $class". tried various require/eval/import combinations from p5 but can't find anything that works
17:07 Util masak: thanks!
17:07 masak Util: $n +^= ($mask +> 1)
17:08 masak Util: it works without parens there too, right?
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17:09 masak I know, I'm quite far towards the end of the spectrum that dislikes precedence-resolving parens, even for clarity's sake. :)
17:09 Aridai How do I add a element to an array?
17:10 masak TBA: 'require' is implemented in Rakudo, I believe.
17:11 masak Aridai: @array.push($element)
17:11 Util masak: yes, thanks for catching that; I had been using a longer form that needed it.
17:11 masak ah.
17:12 masak I failed to mention that the code otherwise looks very well-balanced and Perl6ish. Util++
17:13 tadzik masak: yep
17:15 TBA masak: i'm using rakudo, require works insofar as it finds the class file and doesn't die, but the class doesn't appear to get imported. rakudo dies with 'Cannot find sub My::Package in main program body at line 1'
17:15 Aridai masak, thanks
17:16 tadzik TBA: require is semi-implemented actually :)
17:16 TBA tadzik: semi-implemented in what sense? ;p
17:16 tadzik TBA: I think that importation is broken
17:17 TBA lol... that explains a lot!!
17:17 tadzik but you should be able to require Foo; Foo::Bar()
17:17 tadzik the eval should work too, but, wll
17:17 TBA will play around a bit more, i can use/require a package name and that works, but as soon as I try to load dynamically it falls apart lol
17:18 sorear Aridai: TBA: where did you hear about Perl6?  It's not usual for us to get two new people in such quick succession
17:18 tadzik heh, I became curious too
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17:19 TBA sorear: been using p5 for as long as i can remember, waiting for p6 since p5 came out! been playing with the various rakudo builds for about 9 months but now starting to use p6 when i can, want to get used to the language before it becomes a serious p5 replacement
17:20 masak TBA: good for you!
17:20 masak welcome!
17:20 TBA tadzik, masak: i'll start digging in the rakudo source to see what happens with requires, thanks for all your help!
17:20 TBA masak: ty
17:20 masak we'll be here for your next question. ask early, ask often. :P
17:20 tadzik TBA: I tried implementing import recently, the result was "meh, jnthn has almost done it in nom anyway, I'll wait for nom"
17:21 masak we're all waiting for nom.
17:21 TBA oh i will ;) been meaning to get a bit more involved in p6 but been seriously lacking time, making time for it now lol
17:21 masak it's like a "Perl 6 within the Perl 6" :P
17:21 TBA excuse my ignorance (or memory lol), nom?
17:22 TBA tadzik: its likely i'll come to the same conclusion ;p
17:22 masak TBA: oh, it's an internal name.
17:22 masak TBA: the name of a Rakudo branch, to be exact.
17:22 tylercurtis TBA: it stands for "new object model", I believe.
17:22 masak aye.
17:23 tylercurtis It's a branch that reworks Rakudo to use the new version of NQP (Not Quite Perl, which is a somewhat simpler Perl 6-resembling language used to implement Rakudo).
17:24 sorear generally, nom cleans up a lot of the very low-level details of objects and packages
17:24 sorear rakudo: Match.^methods.say
17:24 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«Method 'methods' not found for invocant of class 'P6metaclass'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Zu1NKEo2RZ␤»
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17:24 sorear nom will fix that, for instance
17:24 Aridai sorear, I've watched a video presentation about Perl 6 and I've decided to try it.
17:24 sorear *every* standard Perl 6 class will have a usable metaclass
17:26 tylercurtis It also implements some not as precisely low-level things that weren't previously implemented: for example, representations and (I think) native types(int, num, etc.)
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17:27 Aridai Do can you guys  recommend a tutorial to learn more about Perl 6?
17:27 TBA nom sounds good, how far along is it in terms of usability?
17:27 masak Aridai: have you found http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/ ?
17:28 masak TBA: hard to estimate. it just started building the other day, though.
17:28 masak TBA: far from being as featureful as Rakudo master, though.
17:28 TBA masak, aridai: i read that as it was being published, can definitely recommend it, clears up a few things about p6 lol
17:28 masak aye.
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17:29 Aridai Thank you for you suggestion; I will take a look.
17:30 TBA masak: will have a look tonight if I get the chance, will get involved if i can
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17:34 masak TBA: sounds nice. make sure you stick around, this is a nice place.
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17:41 masak rakudo: say .[0, 1, 0] given <bird windup>
17:41 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«birdwindupbird␤»
17:41 masak \o/
17:43 masak rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'z'; @a[^10].=flip; say @a
17:43 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«j i h g f e d c b aAny()Any()Any()Any()Any()Any()Any()Any()Any()klmnopqrstuvwxyz␤»
17:43 masak hm.
17:44 masak this surprises me.
17:44 masak rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'j'; @a[^10].=flip; say @a.perl
17:44 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«["j i h g f e d c b a", Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any, Any]␤»
17:44 masak ah.
17:44 masak rakudo: my @a = 'a' .. 'z'; @a[^10].=reverse; say @a
17:44 p6eval rakudo 30809a: OUTPUT«jihgfedcbaklmnopqrstuvwxyz␤»
17:45 * masak <-- bug is in there, not in Rakudo :)
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18:14 dalek niecza: 2c9ae3e | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
18:14 dalek niecza: Add missing Any.exists-key accelerator
18:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2c9ae3eb68
18:14 dalek niecza: 6e796b3 | sorear++ | lib/C (3 files):
18:14 dalek niecza: Call action methods on the same runloop
18:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6e796b3135
18:14 dalek niecza: 23293ec | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
18:14 dalek niecza: Cut an unneeded allocation out of RxFrame::.ctor
18:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/23293ec9b4
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19:02 masak 'night, #perl6.
19:02 masak left #perl6
19:02 sorear 'night!
19:04 daniel-s hi
19:05 sorear hello, daniel-s.
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20:37 dalek niecza: e80f452 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
20:37 dalek niecza: Avoid slurpies in nam generation, tweak STD.ws to be closed to backtracking
20:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e80f452c5b
20:37 dalek niecza: 94d8f55 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
20:37 dalek niecza: Fixes for Match.synthetic
20:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/94d8f557cc
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22:18 dalek niecza: cc6a5c3 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
22:18 dalek niecza: Improve inlining for , and =>
22:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cc6a5c3d0f
22:18 dalek niecza: ded9dfa | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
22:18 dalek niecza: Retire RAWCREATE
22:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ded9dfa896
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22:57 dalek niecza: bae3748 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
22:57 dalek niecza: Rewrite Parcel.LISTSTORE using new iterator API, ($x,$y) = ($y,$x) is 5x faster
22:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bae3748c93
22:57 dalek niecza: e41e2cf | sorear++ | / (3 files):
22:57 dalek niecza: Tweak $<foo> to play nicer with inliner
22:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e41e2cf2d9
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23:07 TBA2 quick question, how do i get hold of the nom branch from git? git clone https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/nom doesn't seem to work
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23:18 TBA2 ok, am i right in thinking i git clone the normal rakudo.git then git checkout nom? *confused*
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23:21 benabik TBA2: Yes
23:24 TBA2 benabik: thanks, not a git user, didn't expect it to be that easy (svn makes it well known when things change :p)
23:24 benabik TBA2: Switching branches is expected and common in git, so it doesn't make a big deal about it.
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