Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-06-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 sorear daniel-s: yes
00:06 sorear daniel-s: packages are a (Liskov, if not implementation) supertyp of modules
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00:21 sorear what is the "irs" keyword?  perl6.vim higlights that
00:25 TimToady input record separator?
00:25 sorear I guess
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00:34 TimToady Krunch: ah, I see you were thinking about sleep sort :)
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00:40 TimToady it showed up on rosettacode too
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01:37 dalek niecza: a2ad340 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
01:37 dalek niecza: Tweak package redef checking, refactor the way categoricals find their precedence
01:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a2ad3409c6
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06:10 sorear for map @<tr> -> $T { ... } # I'm amazed this parsed.  It did NOT work...
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06:13 moritz parsed as @( <tr> ) ?
06:14 TimToady presumably as @( $/<tr> ) or some such
06:15 sorear the actual issue is that map isn't syntax (d'oh) and will run without issue on 1 argument
06:15 TimToady well, sure, whaddya expect?
06:15 sorear I expected better ReadYourMind functionality
06:15 TimToady rakudo: say map 42
06:15 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«No candidates found to invoke for method 'map' on object of type 'Array'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : &block;; *%_)␤␤  in 'map' at line 1898:CORE.setting␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/weF5lSkq9I␤»
06:16 TimToady hmm, well, maybe rakudo requires a block there
06:16 TimToady rakudo: say grep 42
06:16 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«␤»
06:16 sorear I guess it should be any Callable
06:16 TimToady that one's fine, fershure
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06:24 moritz what should map do with a non-callable? smartmatch?
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06:30 sorear moritz: die with a MMD error
06:31 moritz good
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06:57 dalek nqp: af3db5b | pmichaud++ | src/6model/reprs/P6opaque.c:
06:57 dalek nqp: Improve NYFI 4 message to include name of attribute not located.
06:57 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/af3db5b5d5
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06:59 sorear o/ pmichaud
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07:02 jdhore1 OK, good, the Rakudo 42 release day is the 23rd.
07:02 jdhore1 I have Jury Duty the week of the 27th
07:03 jdhore1 (I can get out of it, but i've never done it and I really want to. I'd either be the best or worst juror ever.)
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07:29 sorear jdhore1: (in the US) you can reschedule jury duty by ±2 months no questions asked.
07:30 jdhore1 sorear, I figure, I can also get it cancelled until i next come up for jury duty again, but the only thing i'll miss is work (which i'd miss no matter when i took jury duty, so i'll do it in June
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07:36 dalek niecza: 58a25d9 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
07:36 dalek niecza: Implement is tighter/looser/equiv/assoc
07:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/58a25d999f
07:36 sorear hey dukeleto
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07:44 dukeleto sorear: hola
07:45 sorear dukeleto: did you know your blog is broken?
07:46 dalek niecza: 203671f | sorear++ | src/NieczaGrammar.pm6:
07:46 dalek niecza: Enable usage of operator data from existing outer scopes
07:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/203671f2ae
07:46 dukeleto sorear: no
07:47 sorear dukeleto: see the top of planet.parrotcode.org
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07:48 dukeleto sorear: indeed. I will look into what went wrong. I haven't even been on the interwebs in 3 days.
08:03 dalek niecza: c835aaa | sorear++ | / (3 files):
08:03 dalek niecza: Fixup assoc/tighter/equiv/looser tests; now fully working
08:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c835aaaa46
08:05 sorear argh!! I broke class A::B { ... }; class A::B { } for the 3rd or so time
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08:14 dalek niecza: 66b7213 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
08:14 dalek niecza: Fix stubbing of ::-qualified packages.  AGAIN.
08:14 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/66b7213cfd
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08:43 sorear niecza: sub infix:<@>($a, $b, :$c) { return $a * $b unless $c; say 1 + 2 @ 3; also is equiv<*>; say 1 + 2 @ 3 }; 0 @ 0 :c # That this works either scares or amazes me
08:43 p6eval niecza v6-172-g66b7213: OUTPUT«9␤7␤»
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09:12 dalek niecza: 341faf9 | sorear++ | src/ (5 files):
09:12 dalek niecza: mergeback
09:12 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/341faf9260
09:15 * sorear -> sleep
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09:22 daniel-s for $string.split('') -> $char1
09:22 daniel-s in the above line, $char1 is read only
09:22 daniel-s is there a way to make it rw?
09:23 tadzik to modify the string?
09:23 tadzik also, you might want to use $string.comb
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09:37 daniel-s yea, I want to be able to change $char1
09:37 daniel-s will I need to create a new variable and put $char1 in it
09:38 daniel-s seems inelegant
09:38 moritz you want -> $char1 is copy
09:45 TiMBuS daniel-s, i got your module idea, but I'm not to keen on it i guess
09:45 TiMBuS not to be mean
09:47 TiMBuS i dont want to include any modules with my bot that can - at this point in time - cause it to randomly drop off the network it's on. I also don't want to include a module (LWP::Simple) in the prerequisites atm.
09:47 TiMBuS your code was fine and all, though
09:57 TiMBuS this weekend im gunna think of how to make it so you can load and unload modules at runtime. it was my plan from the start - that's the reason why you need to pass it 'modules' in new()
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10:12 sorear remind me to try and get the bot running on niecza and play with threads or async IO
10:24 TiMBuS good idea
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10:29 nine Hi! I'm studying software engineering and am looking for a topic for my bachelor's paper. Should be some 20-30 pages of theoretical work and an implementation part and I thought, maybe that would be a good excuse to learn Perl 6 and help Rakudo development. Any ideas about some thing that I could work on?
10:31 daxim I want a character encoding library.  and a pony.
10:31 TimToady it's possible that niecza is about ready to be adding hygienic macros
10:32 flussence rakudo could use some work in the OS interaction stuff, there's not much there right now...
10:33 TimToady both rakudo and niecza will be thinking about additional backend platforms soon
10:38 nine Huh...never heard about niecza before
10:43 arnsholt It's the other major Perl 6 implementation. Primarily it's sorear's baby
10:44 arnsholt Focusing primarily on efficiency and optimisations IIRC; implemented in Mono/.Net
10:45 TiMBuS yapsi will soon leave all others in the dust >:]
10:46 arnsholt Of course, of course =)
10:47 TiMBuS is there any way to get a class name with a string? "MyClass"->new is what im going for here
10:49 mux you just made the gods of static typing very angry
10:49 gfldex eval
10:49 buubot_backup gfldex: No output.
10:49 arnsholt mux: The gods of static typing have no truck here. We follow the gods of gradual typing =D
10:49 mux right, right :-P
10:50 nine flussence: Os interaction would be?
10:51 TiMBuS erm. any other ways to load/initialize a user specified class at runtime?
10:54 daniel-s hey guys, I just created a module
10:54 daniel-s it implements a very high security encryption algorithm
10:54 daniel-s https://github.com/daniel-s/Acme--rot13
10:55 TiMBuS hey now rot13 has many legitimate uses that i cant think of right now
10:56 huf how do you extend rot13 to unicode?
10:57 daniel-s I didn't think about that
10:57 TiMBuS its probably best you never do
10:57 huf well then i guess a $str eq decrypt(encrypt($str)) will tell you if $str is unicode?
10:58 daniel-s I read a cool article on CRC32
10:58 daniel-s I think I'll do that next
10:58 daniel-s there is already a module
10:58 daniel-s but it's only CRC32
10:58 daniel-s wait, I meant to say I read an article on CRC
10:58 colomon rakudo: say "Rat".new.WHAT; say "Rat".eval.new.WHAT
10:58 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Rat()␤Rat()␤»
10:59 daniel-s any I want to implement CRC more generically
10:59 daniel-s I think that's my weekend project
10:59 colomon rakudo: say "fngjklfsgalsfhgfjh".new.WHAT
10:59 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in get_repr()␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/cjl_FWcaPp␤»
10:59 daniel-s how do you get a project listed here: http://modules.perl6.org/
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10:59 daniel-s also, is it worth it for mine
11:00 colomon daniel-s: add it to the ecosystem
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11:00 TiMBuS daniel-s, that sure is a lot of code for a rot13
11:00 colomon daniel-s: https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem
11:00 daniel-s TiMBuS: yep
11:00 daniel-s I'm pretty sure it can be done in about 4 lines
11:01 * daniel-s is not that clever I think
11:01 TiMBuS $rot13 =~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M];
11:02 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test" ~~ tr[a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M];
11:02 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &tr␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/grTjrcpckI␤»
11:02 TiMBuS thats perl 5 :<
11:02 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test".trans([a-zA-Z][n-za-mN-ZA-M]);
11:02 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &a-zA-Z␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Z_evrN1B9v␤»
11:02 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test".trans("[a-zA-Z]", "[n-za-mN-ZA-M]");
11:02 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«"[a-zA-Z]" is not a Pair␤  in <anon> at line 2534:CORE.setting␤  in 'Cool::trans' at line 1␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/amOECZUy5Y␤»
11:03 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test".trans("[a-zA-Z]" => "[n-za-mN-ZA-M]");
11:03 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«This is n test␤»
11:03 TiMBuS lol
11:03 daniel-s I'll create a META.info for it
11:03 colomon don't think I have the syntax right yet.  :)
11:03 daniel-s and clean up the ELO calculator so that it's a proper module
11:03 TiMBuS how do you get a signature on a method again
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11:05 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test".trans("a..z" => "n..za..m");
11:05 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Tuvf vf n grfg␤»
11:05 colomon rakudo: say "This is a test".trans("a..z" => "n..za..m", "A..Z" => "N..ZA..M");
11:06 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
11:06 colomon :(
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11:06 TiMBuS you killed it
11:06 colomon >  "This is a test".trans("a..z" => "n..za..m", "A..Z" => "N..ZA..M")
11:06 colomon Guvf vf n grfg
11:06 colomon that's locally
11:06 TiMBuS Guvf vf n grfg
11:07 colomon > "Guvf vf n grfg".trans("a..z" => "n..za..m", "A..Z" => "N..ZA..M")
11:07 colomon This is a test
11:07 TiMBuS im reading that like the swedish chef
11:07 colomon bork bork brk
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11:07 TiMBuS obex obex obex
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11:20 flussence nine: OS interaction meaning doing stuff outside the program besides just file/socket IO. See http://perlcabal.org/syn/S17.html for some of it, that spec isn't complete though.
11:21 flussence (you can do a lot with *just* file IO, but not all of us are running on plan9 :)
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11:27 nine flussence: sounds like a nice self-contained part on which I could work on and produce some writing on the way. I'd just have to concretise the goal a bit. As I mentioned, this will be an excuse for me as well to learn Perl 6, so I have little idea about what's already working and what's not
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11:38 flussence the quickest way to find out what works and what doesn't in rakudo is to run `make spectest` - the majority of the tests pass already
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11:54 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
11:54 pmichaud <incoming>
11:55 moritz good am, pm
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11:55 pmichaud gone for a moment, preparing kids breakfast
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: cdad1e9 | pmichaud++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Stub in a simple Mu.perl method.
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cdad1e9baa
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 490118e | pmichaud++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Stub a simple Mu.WHERE and Mu.Str(Mu:D:).
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/490118ef02
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 475b15f | pmichaud++ | / (5 files):
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: First stage of refactoring List/ListIter.  Defines List generation in terms of ListIter.reify().
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/475b15f415
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 1e514a8 | pmichaud++ | src/ (9 files):
11:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Switch pir__perl6_(list|iter)_from_rpa from functions to opcodes.
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11:58 takadonet morning all
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12:05 colomon o/
12:06 moritz \o
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12:07 moritz nom: say (0).Bool
12:07 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
12:08 moritz nom: my @a = 0; say @a.Bool
12:08 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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12:15 pmichaud I killed dalek.
12:15 pmichaud oh, but it's back :)
12:17 colomon what's up with gmp and nqp? he said, excitedly but puzzled
12:18 pmichaud nothing yet, afaik
12:19 pmichaud I doubt we'll make any serious effort on gmp until after the nom->master transition.
12:19 colomon this is what I'm getting when I try to configure nom atm:
12:19 colomon Wynne:rakudo colomon$ perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp
12:19 colomon dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libgmp.10.dylib
12:19 colomon Referenced from: /Users/colomon/tools/nom/rakudo/install/bin/nqp
12:19 colomon Reason: no suitable image found.  Did find:
12:20 pmichaud I'm guessing it's parrot asking for gmt, t hen.
12:20 pmichaud *gmp
12:20 pmichaud *then
12:20 colomon interesting
12:21 pmichaud afaict there's no mention of "gmp" in the nqp sources
12:21 pmichaud "ack -a gmp src"  returns nothing in the nqp repo
12:21 colomon doubly weird because I just installed gmp (new laptop! \o/)  so it totally should be the correct architecture.  (Not sure if that line came through on #perl6, but it's complaining about  wrong architecture in the dylib
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12:25 colomon argh, getting the same message for icu
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12:26 mdrc hello, i've just been playing with perl on windows. Do you know ... is the i/o system only available for time ticks or can you exec and reuse the terminals from the new image?
12:27 tadzik Hello folks
12:27 tadzik mdrc: is that one question?
12:28 mdrc i guess there are millions
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12:29 tadzik that doesn't help me much. Is "or" a question separator in your sentence?
12:29 tadzik also, is that Perl 6 related?
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12:29 mdrc i've tried with perls pipe call which works just fine. after exec, however, only STDIN duplications seem to work. Linux seems to embed some of the same problems
12:30 dalek rakudo/nom: c21ba65 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ListIter.pm:
12:30 dalek rakudo/nom: Don't flatten elements in scalar containers.
12:30 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c21ba651a3
12:31 mdrc since perl6 has the VM, it actually, for once, quite relevant
12:32 pmichaud Perl 5 has its own VM.
12:32 pmichaud mdrc: I'm not sure any of us here quite understand the question you're asking.
12:32 mdrc how you pass the file handles or pipe to subsequent process images
12:35 mdrc you know, like sharing the stdio
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12:35 pmichaud mdrc: are you using Perl 5 or Perl 6?
12:35 mdrc both
12:36 mdrc together with binary images
12:36 pmichaud I don't know the answer for Perl 5, although I'm certain it's out there somewhere.
12:36 pmichaud I'm not sure we've figured out how to do that in Perl 6 yet, the I/O system is still experimental.
12:37 mdrc would be nice with some terminology, it seems you can only do it portably with TCP sockets
12:38 mdrc and even like that, you can't reallyforward the buffers
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12:39 mdrc not just perl5, perl6, sed, ed, bash ... it seems to go through the ignorance of fake emulations
12:40 colomon ack.  complete fail running Configure.pl in nom this morning.  swear I had this working two days ago...
12:42 mdrc then each program has to state a local i/o policy and won't be able to "fuck" with strangers
12:49 mdrc i can tell you this much: with elf it's easy to reserve a space for n handles ready to be forwarded
12:50 mdrc and remapped
12:51 mdrc eventually, resort to fd numbers if you can't control the binary layout
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12:54 tadzik I have a feeling that a test that used to run 4 seconds now runs 10 on nom
12:56 pmichaud tadzik: which one?
12:56 pmichaud and do you mean 4 sec in master, 10 in nom?
12:57 tadzik no, about 40 seconds in master, 4 on nom, 10 on nom now
12:57 pmichaud ...which one?
12:57 tadzik ah, the test, hold on
12:58 pmichaud yes, I meant "which test"  (sorry)
12:58 tadzik 2011-06-04 12:52:25     tadzik  nom needs like 4 seconds to calculate the sum from 1 to 100000. I think it was like 40 for Rakudo, but I may be wrong
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12:58 tadzik I'll paste the test
12:59 tadzik http://wklej.org/id/548037/
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12:59 pmichaud how long ago was it that you got the 4s result?
13:00 tadzik 2011-06-04 for sure, maybe it was not-so-long-ago too
13:00 tadzik I can wander around a tree a bit
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13:00 pmichaud 2011-06-04 was an eternity ago as far as nom is concerned.  :)
13:00 pmichaud since then a lot of the number types have been fleshed out and now go through multimethod dispatch
13:02 tadzik maybe I should learn how to use git bisect
13:02 pmichaud it's a useful thing to know, yes.
13:03 mdrc the get and put commands too
13:03 mdrc of ftp
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13:04 tadzik how is that connected?
13:05 mdrc by arbitrary nature,
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13:06 tadzik funny, 29921e6d46 can't even run that test, "Method 'shift' not found for invocant of class 'Array'"
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13:07 pmichaud right, say() was broken at that commit.
13:07 pmichaud it gets fixed in the next commit (64a26cd)
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13:09 tadzik oic
13:15 * tadzik bisecting
13:19 colomon pmichaud: all the messages went away when I did a make realclean, guess I hadn't actually built nom on the new box yet.
13:19 tadzik crap, compiling the setting segfaults for me on some older revisions
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13:22 colomon ooooo, nom actually runs make test now, and passes like half of the tests!  \o/
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13:24 pmichaud yes, getting some level of arrays and lists to work helps there :)
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13:25 moritz t/01-sanity/12-try.t seems to loop
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13:29 mdrc until the i/o scheme is clear i just use a temporary file and an interval. take care
13:29 mdrc bye
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13:29 flussence .oO( did someone port SCIgen to IRC? )
13:33 tadzik sigh, the older revisions segfault. I probably need to --gen-nqp on them
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13:58 tadzik bisect is awesome
14:00 tadzik also, the slowdown isn't rapid, it gets slower and slower over time
14:01 tadzik for example 20e114922a568330e9f8903609d5dcd81e6a36fe is 6.something seconds
14:01 PerlJam tadzik: as more and more is implemented on nom?
14:01 moritz it might be things like more multi candidates to consider
14:01 tadzik PerlJam: more-less, yes
14:01 tadzik but the time is stable for most of the time
14:01 moritz more branches in existing code paths as new features are implemented etc.
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14:06 tadzik 723859b08ec68ea8847787ebf47a379d32047c2e is the first bad commit
14:07 tadzik it made it jump from 4.70 secs to 6.something
14:07 tadzik so yes, the more operators the worse
14:11 PerlJam tadzik: you could circumvent MMD and call the exact operator variant if you wanted to reobtain some speed  :)
14:13 tadzik I'll wait for the optimizer to do it ;)
14:13 PerlJam a wise choice
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15:15 TimToady I find it hilariously ironic that the misplaced article on planetsix ends with: "Ok, hm. One of us miscounted. And I'm a computer."
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15:29 dalek nqp: 5e83168 | pmichaud++ | src/6model/reprs/P6opaque.c:
15:29 dalek nqp: Improve NYFI 1 error message with attribute name.
15:29 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/5e83168c3c
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15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: 8424798 | pmichaud++ | / (6 files):
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix array assignment and transitive iteration.  Add a &DUMP primitive for displaying data structures.  Bump NQP_REVISION to get improvements to attribute error messages.
15:50 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8424798b0d
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15:58 moritz pmichaud: what does self.gimme(0) do? initialize $!items?
15:58 pmichaud essentially yes.
15:59 pmichaud but it also tells us how many items have already been reified
15:59 pmichaud (in void context it just initializes $!items)
16:02 dalek rakudo/nom: 9631d76 | moritz++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
16:02 dalek rakudo/nom: [build] missing dependency of coretest build target
16:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9631d76b8d
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16:03 moritz nom: END { say 1 }
16:03 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub !add_phaser␤current instr.: '' pc 101 ((file unknown):12955049) (:1)␤»
16:03 pmichaud phasers NYI
16:04 pmichaud nom: INIT { say 1 }
16:04 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub !add_phaser␤current instr.: '' pc 101 ((file unknown):33974913) (:1)␤»
16:04 pmichaud (just checking)
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: 342f7a5 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (5 files):
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Improve .perl by making it a multimethod;  Mu.perl now produces "Mu" instead of "Mu()".
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/342f7a53e1
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: be75a14 | pmichaud++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
16:07 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/be75a14701
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16:18 dalek rakudo/nom: 9fe1fc0 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
16:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Lists can now handle non-Any elements.  We'll also let Arrays hold non-Any elements for now, to be fixed sometime after we have parametric type checking in place.
16:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9fe1fc09bd
16:19 kboga hi, perl method in Complex needs to be a multi too?
16:19 pmichaud yes
16:19 pmichaud I didn't necessarily get them all :)
16:19 kboga :)
16:20 pmichaud right now I'm just filling in pieces as I get to them, on the way to building bigger ones
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16:22 kboga these are exciting times for perl
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16:35 dalek rakudo/nom: d69f0c9 | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files):
16:35 dalek rakudo/nom: make all perl() methods multi, kboga++
16:35 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d69f0c9f18
16:36 pmichaud the .perl methods should also have the :D: on them.
16:36 moritz oh, right
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16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: ad9f0b6 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Add pir::const:: for passing pasm constants to PIR.
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom:
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Note that these only work within pir::op(...) statements and other
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: items -- you can't assign a pir::const:: value directly to a Perl 6
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: variable.  Binding with C<:=> might be possible, but in that case
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: you're getting a Parrot Integer PMC and not a Perl 6 Int.  If/when
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: we need the capability for pasm constants to appear directly in
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: our code, we'll introduce a rakudo::const or similar namespace for it.
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ad9f0b6de4
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 7bcb144 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix Signature.count to use new List structures.  Add List.munch.
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7bcb144503
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: f340c0e | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (3 files):
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
16:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f340c0ec2f
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17:53 colomon pmichaud: "The .perl methods should also have the :D: on them."  Does that imply that Mu.perl (or something) will handle the :U case correctly for everything?
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17:54 TimToady sure, though of course something like Failure might have its own .perl despite being officially undefined
17:55 TimToady so instead of just Failure you can get Failure.new("You suck!") or some such
17:56 TimToady iow .perl should allow interesting values of undef to remain interesting :)
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17:57 * TimToady suddently wonders if handling an exception just involves flipping its .defined bit...
17:59 TimToady s/exception/failure/
17:59 TimToady I suspect exceptions are defined, and a failure merely has an exception
18:00 TimToady but I'll let moritz++ keep thinking about that
18:02 TimToady I'm still leaning toward a model where CATCH is invoked with all current exceptions in @! rather than a method on $!
18:03 sorear good * #perl6
18:03 TimToady o/
18:07 colomon \o
18:09 sorear TimToady: btw, I found a much simpler way to do is tigher etc (than what you speculated a couple months ago)
18:10 sorear TimToady: I modified the tokens generated by add_categorical to look like ... <O( self.get_O('infix', '@') )> ...
18:11 sorear self.get_O looks up the $*CURLEX<!sub> chain and pulls the "prec_info" slot out of the correct symtab
18:12 sorear so I don't need to "defer add_categorical until after the traits"
18:12 TimToady cool
18:12 sorear as long as the traits stash data in the correct symtab, it shows up
18:12 sorear niecza: sub infix:<@>($a, $b, :$c) { return $a * $b unless $c; say 1 + 2 @ 3; also is equiv<*>; say 1 + 2 @ 3 }; 0 @ 0 :c # I wonder if this is spectest material
18:13 p6eval niecza v6-173-g341faf9: OUTPUT«9␤7␤»
18:13 TimToady I'd guess yes, and then let other impls complain if they can't. :)
18:17 TimToady in general, most traits need to "happen" instantly, not at some future unspecified commit point
18:17 TimToady the fact that it can change parsing at this point is scary, yes.  :)
18:18 TimToady but I can't think of a correcter way to do it
18:18 TimToady if some instant trait has dire performance results, then we'll rethink it
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18:26 TimToady but if trait info is hard to get to, we're probably hanging it off the wrong peg
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18:41 TimToady (or an overzealous optimizer could be assuming a language that is too static to mutate effectively)
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18:52 dalek niecza: 21aca01 | sorear++ | / (2 files):
18:52 dalek niecza: Make for-loops work in blasts
18:52 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/21aca0172f
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19:39 sorear o/ mberends
19:41 mberends o/ sorear, I wish I was at NPW right now...
19:42 colomon sorear: blasts?
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19:54 dalek niecza: 5d39e80 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
19:54 dalek niecza: Add source location information to double-our-definition errors
19:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5d39e8069e
19:55 sorear colomon: blasts are [ <statement> | <block> ] as used in gather, INIT, etc
19:55 sorear it's a pun-based name; created to allow for "phaser blasts"
19:55 sorear mberends: nordic?
19:56 sorear colomon: rakudo calls them blorsts.  I don't know which is more current...
19:57 pmichaud rakudo copied from std, so if std doesn't have blorsts anymore than std is more current :)
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20:02 colomon sorear: thanks
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20:18 colomon woo-hoo!  just scanned bits of 4000 files with Rakudo in 16 seconds!
20:19 sorear impressive
20:20 colomon It's just opening each file and reading the second line, but it feels satisfyingly like I threw a bigish task at it and Rakudo came through with flying colors.
20:20 colomon it's nicely easy to express in p6, too.
20:20 sorear and closing each file? :)
20:20 colomon sorear: what was that again?  ;)
20:21 sorear niecza doesn't have "close" yet, so you'd have some trouble doing that :)
20:21 sorear if you want to access more than FD_MAX files in one program, niecza will make you use "slurp"
20:22 colomon I'm relying on the fact that .lines is lazy in Rakudo.
20:22 colomon makes getting the second line in each file very easy
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20:23 colomon bad news is, I didn't find any examples of what I was actually looking for in the files.
20:23 colomon but that's $work, not p6.
20:23 colomon https://gist.github.com/1032239
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20:28 colomon aha, found what I was looking for in the next file!
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20:30 sorear Is $foo.WHAT() legal?
20:32 colomon rakudo: say 5.WHAT()
20:32 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
20:33 sorear Rakudo cheats.
20:33 colomon evidence but not proof.  :)
20:33 sorear rakudo: say 5."WHAT"()
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20:33 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 66fe892 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (3 files):
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Create box/unbox functions for RPA <-> Parcel.  Eventually we may
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: just make it into an opcode, since it's common in low-level code.
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/66fe8924be
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 8bd5b1e | pmichaud++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Add container markers to DUMP output.
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/8bd5b1e723
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: 2d09de6 | pmichaud++ | / (4 files):
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: First version of List.map().
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2d09de61c9
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: cee6769 | pmichaud++ | src/core/control.pm:
20:57 dalek rakudo/nom: Stub in a simple &die and &fail.
20:58 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cee6769cb6
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21:06 mberends sorear: yes, Nordic Perl Workshop - http://conferences.yapceurope.org/npw2011/ - I could not attend because of $work
21:06 pmichaud I could not attend because of it's too darn far away.  :(
21:06 pmichaud But I'm there in spirit.  :)
21:06 * mberends too
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: 33f9433 | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: fix .perl signatures, pmichaud++
21:08 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/33f9433700
21:10 pmichaud TimToady: did you see the discussion a couple of days ago about using :A and :C instead of :U and :D ?
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21:16 lichtkind cheers friendly people
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21:19 PerlJam pmichaud: what would :A and :C be mnemonic for?
21:19 pmichaud "abstract" and "concrete"
21:19 pmichaud same as the section heading that currently describes :U and :D
21:19 frettled Being concrete makes you very unhappy, I see.
21:21 jnthn o/ folks
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21:21 * jnthn was rather tied up with Architecture Community Day today and NPW :)
21:22 mberends o/ jnthn
21:22 * jnthn is happy to have Perl people about :)
21:22 jnthn And 2 days of workshop now :)
21:22 jnthn o/ mberends
21:23 pmichaud o/ jnthn
21:23 jnthn o/ pmichaud
21:23 frettled How are things in Malmö?
21:23 frettled (It was Malmö, right?)
21:23 jnthn pmichaud: Won't be about long - running on a sleep deficit. :) Any nom bits you need/want to ask about?
21:23 mberends PerlJam: :A :B :C ;-) after http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-06-11#i_3905291
21:23 pmichaud ummmmmmm
21:23 jnthn frettled: Things are good. We had pre-workshop meetup tonight. There was Perl folks and beer :)
21:23 jnthn frettled: And was at venue today also and things seem good there. :)
21:24 frettled jnthn: yay
21:24 pmichaud just to confirm:  prefix;<|> isn't implemented yet?
21:25 sorear JNTHN!
21:25 jnthn pmichaud: Correct
21:25 jnthn pmichaud: Mostly because I've deliberating how to do so.
21:26 pmichaud no problem, I worked around it for now
21:26 jnthn pmichaud: I didn't like the way I did it in master much but, well...maybe taht's the way it's gotta be for now.
21:26 dalek niecza: 772b7d3 | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
21:26 dalek niecza: Detect (with source position) double definitions of attributes and methods
21:26 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/772b7d3889
21:26 jnthn o/ sorear
21:26 sorear jnthn: what might a better way be?
21:27 jnthn sorear: Probably defer the unpacking to the binder and handle it on callee side.
21:27 pmichaud jnthn: I don't think I have any pressing questions right now
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21:27 jnthn sorear: Parrot wants to flatten caller side, afaik
21:28 jnthn Which is awful for laziness.
21:28 pmichaud I have basic lazy lists and arrays in place, and an implementation of (lazy) map
21:28 pmichaud I'm working on gather/take now.
21:28 jnthn But fixing that breaks our ability to call anything with | args that isn't going through the Perl 6 binder.
21:28 jnthn I could try and push for a Parrot change I guess.
21:28 jnthn It's not one of those bits of Parrot where there's a good way to plug in our own semantics...not easily.
21:30 jnthn .oO( Owning the platform is good... )
21:31 pmichaud jnthn: best wishes for the workshop tomorrow; I have no doubt it will be outstanding.  Wish I could be there.
21:31 pmichaud how many attendees are you expecting?
21:31 jnthn 40
21:31 pmichaud not bad at all
21:31 jnthn Yeah, about typical for workshop in Sweden.
21:31 jnthn We have t-shirts with our logo on \o/
21:32 pmichaud the one on the site?
21:32 jnthn pmichaud: Yes. The polar bear with the viking hat. :)
21:32 pmichaud I'd like a t-shirt with that logo :)
21:32 pmichaud that's cool
21:32 sorear jnthn: What does the Rakudo project think of http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-06-17#i_3944935
21:34 jnthn sorear: I'm probably too tired to comment but initial reaction is "can't possibly be right"
21:34 jnthn It looks like that trait is modifying behavior of only part of the enclosing sub
21:34 jnthn That isn't possible. Traits are applied at compile time.
21:35 jnthn oh, but you're twiddling with the operator itself
21:35 jnthn ...
21:35 jnthn *sigh*
21:35 jnthn Frankly, I don't care. :)
21:36 jnthn Something feels very wrong there though.
21:36 masak joined #perl6
21:36 masak evening, #perl6.
21:36 jnthn o/ masak
21:36 impious left #perl6
21:36 masak I'm here to edublog. then I'll go to bed.
21:37 pmichaud masak o/ !
21:37 jnthn sorear: Can't put my finger on it. Something makes me unhappy. Too tired to know what.
21:38 jnthn sorear: In Rakudo we've traditionally not introduced the operator until having fully parsed the body, though.
21:38 pmichaud I suspect introducing the operator is needed before the body parses.
21:38 jnthn Maybe so
21:38 pmichaud for recursion, if nothing else.
21:38 moritz rakudo: sub postfix:<!>($x) { $x == 0 ?? 1 !! $x * ($x - 1)! }
21:38 p6eval rakudo 248244:  ( no output )
21:38 moritz rakudo: sub postfix:<!>($x) { $x == 0 ?? 1 !! $x * ($x - 1)! }; say 5!
21:38 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«120␤»
21:38 jnthn I'm not sure going back and playing with the precedence after the recursion is wise though.
21:38 jnthn moritz: oh, we must do it earlier than that.
21:39 jnthn gah, after the role application I meant.
21:39 pmichaud I'm pretty sure we handle it as soon as it's parsed in master.
21:39 jnthn ah, OK
21:39 jnthn Traits also?
21:39 pmichaud no, I don't think we do that part yet.
21:39 pmichaud that's part of why we don't implement precedence yet :)
21:39 jnthn question is when we create the Code object
21:40 jnthn Anyway, for now nom defers that until too late for what Niecza does there to work, 'cus it's easier.
21:40 jnthn I can fiddle with it to be the other way
21:40 jnthn But it's hardly a priority.
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21:48 masak rakudo: my %h = <a 1 b 2 c 3>; say %h.elems
21:48 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«3␤»
21:48 * masak nods
21:48 pmichaud nom:  my %h = <a 1 b 2 c 3>;  say %h<b>;  # checking
21:48 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
21:48 jnthn nice :)
21:48 moritz nom: my %h = <a 1 b 2 c 3>;  say %h.elems
21:48 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'elems' not found for invocant of class 'Hash'␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 131 ((file unknown):142) (:1)␤»
21:48 pmichaud I probably need to implement Pairs soon.
21:49 jnthn Probably. :)
21:49 pmichaud yes, I haven't done the list functions for hashes yet.
21:49 * masak .oO( One Night In Pairs )
21:50 TimToady .oO(Pairs in the the Spring)
21:51 mberends masak++ # stamina maintaining his blogathon pace
21:51 * masak .oO( An American in Pairs )
21:51 pmichaud A Full House beats Two Paris.
21:51 masak mberends: this weekend's the toughest one, but I knew it would be.
21:52 sorear disturbing jnthn so much shouldn't feel like an accomplishment what's wrong with me :|
21:53 masak rakudo: my %h = <a 1 b 2 c 3>; say %h.keys; say ~%h.keys;
21:53 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«abc␤a b c␤»
21:53 jnthn sorear: I'm running a sleep deficit. :)
21:58 masak left #perl6
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22:06 sorear hello masak`
22:06 masak` \o
22:06 masak` is now known as masak
22:06 pmichaud afk for a while... nap
22:06 sorear nap++
22:09 jnthn decent nights sleep at last...maybe &
22:13 bluescreen10 left #perl6
22:15 masak rakudo: my %h; say %h<foo>; say %h.elems; %h<foo>++; say %h.elems
22:15 p6eval rakudo 248244: OUTPUT«Any()␤0␤1␤»
22:18 * sorear waits for all(@Larry) to all show up at once
22:20 icebattle left #perl6
22:25 dalek niecza: 365e216 | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
22:25 dalek niecza: Detect multiple our subs, importing operators with custom precedence
22:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/365e216a7b
22:25 masak blog post! http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/june-17-2011-hashes
22:26 sorear masak: is 555-414141 a fictional Swedish phone number?
22:28 masak no, the '555' is mostly used in Hollywood movies, I believe.
22:29 masak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_(telephone_number)
22:29 alester left #perl6
22:30 masak 'night, #perl6.
22:30 masak left #perl6
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22:54 lichtkind sorear: i think the only question you missed last time was if theres any thing important you want to let know people about niecza
22:54 sorear I didn't miss that question, I just don't know how to answer it
22:57 sorear TimToady: How should 'uassoc' be exposed to Perl 6?
22:59 Tanktalus joined #perl6
22:59 lichtkind sorear: are there any clues you stumbled upon about perl 6 , implementation or else you think are important?
23:00 sorear I've learned hundreds of things about Perl 6 while trying to implement it
23:05 lichtkind sorear: did you study rakudo sources before you began?
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23:31 sorear lichtkind: yes
23:39 sorear today's major project will be the implementation of the remaining cases of name reference.  $CALLER::($y) and all that.
23:39 lichtkind sorear: thats way too specific for my readers :)
23:40 lichtkind sorear: which conclusions did you draw from reading rakudo sources?
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