Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-07-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:05 TimToady rakudo: use MONKEY_TYPING; augment class Int { has $.answer = 'lue' }; say 42.answer;
00:05 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Modifications to classes are not allowed after instantiation.␤»
00:06 TimToady That's Not Fair!!!
00:07 Tene TimToady: Perhaps it's time to reconsider adding lexically-scoped class modifications to the spec? ;)
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00:39 jlaire perl6: say so any "y"|"yes" eq lc ("y" R// Mu)
00:39 p6eval niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤This macro cannot be used as a function at /tmp/Nh_I94OEqO line 1:␤------> [32msay so any "y"|"yes" eq lc ("y" R//[33m⏏[31m Mu)[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 57…
00:39 p6eval ..rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:39 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "R"␤    expecting operator or ")"␤    at /tmp/dsrmXoaZ8a line 1, column 33␤»
00:39 jlaire nom: say so any "y"|"yes" eq lc ("y" R// Mu)
00:40 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:42 jlaire masak: fwiw, http://laire.fi/t/crypt-patch-v2.txt
00:43 jlaire it adds 6 non-ws characters :p
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01:56 TimToady perl6: say "foo" R&& 0
01:56 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "R"␤    expecting operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/uywsdZHZYe line 1, column 11␤»
01:56 p6eval ..rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«0␤»
01:56 p6eval ..niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤This macro cannot be used as a function at /tmp/aaNssrzgyL line 1:␤------> [32msay "foo" R&&[33m⏏[31m 0[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 570 (CORE die @ 2) ␤  at /…
01:56 TimToady perl6: say "foo" R&& 1
01:57 p6eval niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤This macro cannot be used as a function at /tmp/dWYzZL3Mbf line 1:␤------> [32msay "foo" R&&[33m⏏[31m 1[0m␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 570 (CORE die @ 2) ␤  at /…
01:57 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "R"␤    expecting operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/bsXI2Yk2Cq line 1, column 11␤»
01:57 p6eval ..rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«foo␤»
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02:03 [Coke] # FUDGED!
02:03 [Coke] too few arguments: 0 passed, 26200224 expected
02:08 colomon woah.  don't want to have to write out that many arguments.
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02:13 TimToady use an xx
02:13 TimToady or an ax
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02:37 TimToady moritz: http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-t​o-6#Postfcircumfix_and_Circumfix has a {} vs [] typo, reported by davido++
02:39 TiMBuS Postfcircumfix
02:39 TiMBuS well thanks i just spat all over my monitor reading that out loud :c
02:39 TimToady that too...
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03:34 TimToady http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Inverted_index#Perl_6 <-- kinda makes the other languages look verbose
03:36 TimToady Hash.push is scary powerful
03:44 TiMBuS what happens if you don't use push, but instead normal assignment?
03:45 TimToady later keys clobber earlier dups
03:45 TiMBuS ohhh
03:46 TiMBuS that feature I always think about when munging data and them promptly forget until next time
03:46 TiMBuS that -is- scary powerful :o
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04:19 soh_cah_toa perl6: say $*OSNAME
04:19 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5:  ( no output )
04:19 p6eval ..niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
04:19 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
04:19 soh_cah_toa ugh, it's not just my installation :(
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04:24 soh_cah_toa hmm...it looks like $*OS works but i'm almost positive that the spec says that $^O has become $*OSNAME
04:30 TimToady perl6: say $*OS.perl
04:30 p6eval niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«Any␤»
04:30 p6eval ..rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«"linux"␤»
04:30 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«\undef␤»
04:39 sorear I haven't implemented $*OS yet because there seems to be no standard for how it should work
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05:34 szabgab unfortunatelly I still cannot build Rakudo (the master branch) on Windows :)
05:34 szabgab :(
05:41 sorear szabgab: I've got binaries :>
05:41 sorear (for my impl)
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06:25 [Coke] szabgab: I was able to build rakudo/nom using msvc express & strawberry perl.
06:25 [Coke] needed a set of specific options for the parrot to do that.
06:25 [Coke] failed a few parrot tests, but nothing major.
06:25 [Coke] if you're still stuck, ping me, I'll find you the command line.
06:25 [Coke] (or ask cotto in #parrot on irc.perl.org.)
06:25 [Coke] but now, zzz
06:26 szabgab night :)
06:26 szabgab and for those who might be awake, I'd prefer to have my good old build using pure Strawberry back :)
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08:41 CBro2007 hi all ... is perl6 completely different from 5?
08:42 CBro2007 I haven't used perl in a while, but know all the basics of it.. maybe say intermediate level. And then I notice some talk about Perl 6 being a "serious contender"
08:43 CBro2007 anyone here?
08:43 CBro2007 I was also wondering if perl 6 will now have a concept like Python's bindings?
08:43 CBro2007 I would love for a Perl 6 project to talk to C++ libraries for example!
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08:46 [perlhack] *THUMBS UP*
08:48 moritz CBro2007: Perl 6 is very different from Perl 5, though they share a lot of philosophy behind the scence
08:49 moritz and also quite some syntax
08:50 moritz CBro2007: we have an experimantal foreign function interface for calling C functions here: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj
08:51 moritz it looks quite nice, but still requires some work before it's really mature
08:51 moritz interfacing C++ is always a problem
08:51 moritz because C++ compilers use name mangling to compile C++ code to the same object code that C uses
08:52 moritz and that name mangling is not standardized
08:52 CBro2007 moritz: thanks for the response. Its just that I am thinking about a research project and I know perl. Many others have recommended I learn python if I want to use "bindings" to other languages
08:53 moritz the problem with C++ is pretty universal, and independent from the language you use
08:53 CBro2007 moritz: i just cannot be bothered learning python :)
08:53 moritz the best you can do is write a C wrapper for C++ libraries, and then use the C interface from {perl5,perl6,python}
08:54 moritz CBro2007: you can also use perl 5. Search on CPAN for 'ffi', 'foreign', 'C++' and so on
08:54 CBro2007 can I wrap c++ with c?
08:54 CBro2007 I am not sure that is possible
08:54 CBro2007 I know I can call C libs within C++
08:54 moritz sure you can, by writing a C++ wrapper with some extern "C" { ... }  code
08:54 colomon TimToady: on your inverted index -- shouldn't it search for files that include all of the given words?  At least, the problem seems vague...
08:55 CBro2007 I asked in the perl 5 channel and got the response that perl 6 and 5 are completely different things
08:55 CBro2007 while I was under the impression that 6 is just an upgrade on 5?
08:55 moritz it's not just an upgrade
08:55 moritz it's a completly new start
08:56 CBro2007 but does that mean that I cannot use any modules from CPAN that work with perl 5 yeah?
08:57 CBro2007 I am just worried that the work I do in perl 5 may not be portable to perl 6 (if it becomes the new norm)
08:57 CBro2007 moritz: would you say its too early to use perl 6?
08:58 CBro2007 ?
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09:02 CBro2007 moritz: because it sounds like perl 5 is production code while perl 6 is not a complete implementation yeah?
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09:14 TiMBuS CBro2007, personally i wouldnt use rakudo in production at the moment
09:14 TiMBuS but it guess its up to the producer?
09:15 CBro2007 TiMBuS: the thing is that I don't work for a company.. I am a researcher at a uni
09:17 CBro2007 so in other words I have the option to screw up a bit
09:17 CBro2007 :)
09:17 CBro2007 I just don't want to be stuck like - oh fuck we don't support this or that
09:17 CBro2007 or I cannot use C code
09:17 CBro2007 or I cannot connect to some kinda DB
09:18 CBro2007 you know stuff like that would suck
09:18 CBro2007 otherwise I am up for a "better perl"
09:21 szabgab CBro2007: I don't think you have such a problem with rakudo, worst case you just need to implement the interface :)
09:21 szabgab or feature
09:21 CBro2007 i wouldn't have a clue where to begin if I had to write an interface to C or C++ libraries I would like to use in my perl project
09:21 CBro2007 the idea is this
09:22 CBro2007 I have with me a team of other students mostly with java and python skills
09:22 szabgab CBro2007: its esy, you start here on the channel
09:22 CBro2007 I am more perl, c, c++
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09:22 CBro2007 we may or may not have code to share... and then I would like to whip up code really fast..I don't want to learn Python to be able to make use of some of my earlier written C or C++ libraries
09:23 CBro2007 I know in perl I can do pretty much anything that those guys claim python can do etc... and it will run pretty fast
09:23 CBro2007 if it has some bits that are slow.. I want to rewrite them in C and just be able to use them in my perl project
09:23 CBro2007 thinking more along the lines of using OO perl - Moose or something
09:23 CBro2007 does Moos work in Perl 6?
09:24 CBro2007 I have no idea about perl 6 sorry :)
09:24 szabgab CBro2007: If you need to interact with others then probably p5 is still better
09:24 szabgab P6 has a better object system built in than what Moose is
09:25 szabgab so P6 = P5 + Moose+ about a lot of other things   (if you really need to compare)
09:25 CBro2007 man ... looks like it would have been awesome if P6 was an upgrade on P5
09:25 CBro2007 :)
09:25 CBro2007 yeah but P6 is not an upgrade on P5 is it?
09:25 CBro2007 I thought its written from scratch?
09:25 CBro2007 I mean can I use modules from cpAN written for p5?
09:25 szabgab in many terms it is not
09:25 szabgab not an upgrade
09:26 szabgab as far as I know in a very limited way you can use CPAN
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09:27 szabgab depending on how much time I have I 'd write stuff in both p5 and p6 just to see how they compare
09:27 CBro2007 hmm at the moment I know nothing about p6, but is the syntax similar?
09:27 CBro2007 or have you changed it completely ? :)
09:27 szabgab it is not me :)
09:27 CBro2007 like you still have the $, % and stuff
09:28 CBro2007 or they don't exist any more
09:28 szabgab yes, but the meannigs are not exactly the same
09:28 szabgab element of an array is  @x[2]
09:28 CBro2007 that would suck :(
09:28 szabgab and not $x[2]
09:28 szabgab that means a learning curve
09:28 CBro2007 that actually I don't mind
09:28 CBro2007 that is more intuitive I would say
09:29 CBro2007 I always thought it was stupid to say $x[2]
09:29 CBro2007 hehe
09:29 szabgab many people say so
09:29 CBro2007 as I see it.. p6 seems to be trying to make a better language
09:29 CBro2007 something that is more intuitive i think
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09:29 szabgab indeed
09:29 CBro2007 but I am not sure if they want to make it lightweight and super fast compared to p5?
09:29 CBro2007 is that a criteria too?
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09:30 szabgab that's not the current objective
09:30 CBro2007 i see
09:30 szabgab the current objective is to finish and imlement the features
09:31 CBro2007 how long do you think that will take?
09:31 szabgab :)
09:31 CBro2007 good answer
09:31 CBro2007 :)
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09:31 CBro2007 well I can always contribute my code to p6 as a library or something
09:31 moritz I hope and exepect to have a very well usable compiler at the end of this year
09:31 CBro2007 hopefully its not too hacky
09:31 CBro2007 moritz: so you are the main dude :)
09:32 moritz we're making a massive overhaul in a branch, it it's much faster already
09:32 CBro2007 moritz: are you working on rakudo? or building something completely new?
09:32 moritz now we need to many of the features back in
09:32 moritz CBro2007: i'm working on rakudo, yes. But i'm not the "main dude", that would be pmichaud and jnthn
09:32 CBro2007 I think I like the idea of keeping 2 simultaneous projects going .. in p5 and p6
09:32 CBro2007 nice work
09:33 CBro2007 I start my project in Sep
09:33 CBro2007 so it isn't too bad if you have something completed by end of this year
09:33 CBro2007 so are you running performance tests against p5? and you find it faster?
09:33 moritz don't used the word "finished"
09:34 moritz neither perl 5 nor GCC nor C++ are "finished"
09:34 CBro2007 ok ready for production?
09:34 CBro2007 :)
09:34 CBro2007 yeah yeah I know ...
09:34 moritz if a software project is finished, it's dead :-)
09:34 CBro2007 so how about prod ready?
09:34 CBro2007 yeah like lisp
09:34 CBro2007 :)
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09:34 CBro2007 hahha
09:34 moritz performance won't be as good as p5 for now
09:34 CBro2007 hm
09:34 moritz we focus on powerful and easily usable first
09:35 CBro2007 I am just starting to read --> http://www.perl.com/pub/200​6/01/12/what_is_perl_6.html
09:35 moritz I mean, if speed is your primary concern, you can use assembler or C
09:35 CBro2007 just to see what the differences are
09:35 CBro2007 i do use C
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09:37 CBro2007 moritz: the idea is that I want to be able to whip up code super fast
09:37 CBro2007 and the bits that we think aren't so fast we can optimize or rewrite in C
09:37 CBro2007 I think I can write "ready" code much faster in perl
09:37 moritz exactly :-)
09:38 CBro2007 and my work is more research oriented.. its more about writing prototypes and seeing what works what doesnt
09:38 CBro2007 so I have to rewrite shit over and over again
09:38 moritz well, Perl 6 adds things like a built-in, rich object model, including a meta object model
09:38 CBro2007 not so much fun in a C or c++ project you know
09:38 CBro2007 i would certainly appreciate that :)
09:38 CBro2007 I just wanna kick butt over the python and java guys
09:38 CBro2007 :)
09:39 CBro2007 to me java is nice to read and code in etc... but usually runs slow
09:39 CBro2007 oh in p6 can you use a functional programming style?
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09:39 moritz yes
09:39 CBro2007 nice
09:40 CBro2007 i really hope you guys can also make it run faster than p5
09:40 CBro2007 that would be the perfect combo
09:40 CBro2007 :)
09:40 CBro2007 what do you guys write your code in?
09:40 CBro2007 C?
09:40 szabgab and cheaper :)
09:40 CBro2007 cheaper? you buy perl?
09:41 tadzik CBro2007: Perl 6 mainly :) Also, Perl 5, C, Vala
09:41 szabgab sorry, bad joke
09:41 CBro2007 hehe
09:42 moritz the compiler is mostly written in Perl 6
09:42 CBro2007 ah so its not completely a write from scratch kinda project
09:42 CBro2007 I mean if p6 uses p5 code under the covers.. you will still inherit some of their performance headaches too
09:43 CBro2007 ok
09:43 tadzik what do you mean in "not from scratch project"?
09:43 moritz p5 is only used in the build system
09:43 CBro2007 so p6's main objective seems to be very much making it a more regular language
09:43 CBro2007 that more people can use
09:44 CBro2007 tadzik: my understanding was that the core of p5 is written in C
09:44 CBro2007 many of the built-in functions
09:44 CBro2007 but anyway ... I am more clear about the objective of p6 is now .. well kinda :)
09:45 CBro2007 will read up more about it
09:45 CBro2007 and if I get stuck..will bug you guys
09:45 CBro2007 hehe
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09:52 tadzik please do :)
09:53 CBro2007 "Perl 6 has a Perl 5 compatibility layer" - is this true?
09:53 tadzik it's supposed to be, yes :)
09:54 tadzik there's a module which allows you to use Perl 5 modules in Perl 6 code, but it
09:54 CBro2007 does this mean if I find myself in the situations where p6 doesn't allow me to do something I can use p5 there?
09:54 tadzik 's quite limited atm
09:54 CBro2007 ok
09:55 CBro2007 are all of you guys volunteers to p6?
09:56 tadzik no one is forced to do that, so in a way everyone's a volunteer I'd say :)
09:57 CBro2007 no but what I mean is that how does one contribute?
09:57 tadzik just do it :)
09:57 CBro2007 what skill sets do you need to help out in p6?
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09:57 tadzik http://rakudo.org/how-to-help/
09:57 CBro2007 yeah but isn't there like a ToDo list or areas where we need more coders?
09:58 tadzik see https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wik​i/Most-Wanted%3A-Modules-to-write-port
09:58 tadzik that's for the modules, you can read about them on modules.perl6.org
09:59 CBro2007 so I mean I know p5 ... not a guru or anything.. but wonder what else I need to know
09:59 CBro2007 do I just have to learn p6 syntax?
10:00 CBro2007 and then try to rewrite the p5 stuff like say the Crypto package to p6?
10:00 tadzik now the easy way to get involved and get karma is: go through RT, look for bugs which have been fixed already and no one noticed (LOADS of them, really), and notify someone here that they should be closed. If they're still broken, writing a spectest helps
10:00 tadzik I'd recommend learning Perl 6 semantics too :)
10:00 tadzik you'll like moritz++'s "Perl 5 to 6" articles I suppose
10:00 tadzik http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6
10:00 CBro2007 yeah I am thinking that if I can dig deeper into p6 core then maybe I get a chance to learn it quicker
10:01 CBro2007 i could be wrong
10:01 CBro2007 :)
10:01 tadzik if you mean "p6 core" as the "p6 compiler", I'm not so sure
10:01 CBro2007 yeah I don't think I would want to go there
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10:02 CBro2007 but I don't mind helping out rewriting some modules from p5 o p6
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10:02 tadzik that's cool
10:02 CBro2007 I mean I had a pretty decent crytpography background
10:02 CBro2007 only thing is I don't know p6 syntax
10:03 CBro2007 and I was thinking that the work I do at uni is mostly stuff like computational geometry etc.. or network flow algos... that could be a module contribution too I guess
10:03 CBro2007 or maybe not :)
10:03 tadzik read moritz's articles, read the Book, read the advent calendar and then learn one the go :)
10:03 tadzik my first module contribution was Acme::Meow, everything's welcome :)
10:03 CBro2007 another thing... how do I know if someone else hasn't taken up the same task?
10:04 CBro2007 in moritiz's article it says its hard to learn p6 because it isn't as well documented
10:04 tadzik hmm. They usually announce it here I suppose
10:04 CBro2007 and this channel is best to learn?
10:04 tadzik probably :)
10:04 CBro2007 so say I was trying to rewrite one of those most wanted modules.. and got stuck ... would I get help here?
10:04 tadzik I learned a lot just sitting here and trying to understand wth are those Big Guys talking about
10:04 tadzik and I still do
10:04 tadzik of course
10:05 tadzik that reminds me, I'm ought to update my "start a module" guide
10:05 CBro2007 yeah nice
10:05 CBro2007 so what should i read after M's article from 5 to 6?
10:05 CBro2007 you mentioned a book?
10:06 tadzik yep. github.com/perl6/book
10:06 CBro2007 k
10:06 CBro2007 and are all the DBI/DBD modules done for p6?
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10:06 tadzik you may as well start from it, but I found moritz' articles to be the best start when I was starting
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10:06 CBro2007 k
10:06 tadzik I don't think any of them works currently, but I may be wrong. See modules.perl6.org
10:07 CBro2007 k
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10:09 [perlhack] :-)
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10:12 CBro2007 shit p6 is so neat man!!
10:12 CBro2007 am looking at moritz's article here
10:12 CBro2007 my @a = 5, 1, 2;
10:12 CBro2007 my @b = @a.sort;
10:13 CBro2007 this is way more "pleasurable" to write shit in :)
10:13 tadzik nom: my @a = sort(5, 1, 2); @a.perl.say
10:13 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &sort␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 88 ((file unknown):68184701) (/tmp/VEk_lm0kbb:1)␤»
10:13 tadzik rakudo: my @a = sort(5, 1, 2); @a.perl.say
10:13 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 5]␤»
10:13 tadzik a'right
10:14 CBro2007 neat
10:14 CBro2007 this stuff will improve readability of perl code a milion times more for sure
10:14 CBro2007 :)
10:16 CBro2007 tadzik: are there more articles like the one you sent me?
10:16 CBro2007 tadzik: or is that the only one.?
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10:17 tadzik CBro2007: there is a whole series of Perl 5 to 6
10:17 tadzik like 20 of them or so I think
10:18 CBro2007 ok
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10:20 CBro2007 tadzik: doesn't http://perlgeek.de/en/article/5-to-6  include it all?
10:20 CBro2007 or are there others?
10:20 CBro2007 I understand that that link has all the blog posts grouped together
10:21 tadzik CBro2007: no, these are all
10:21 tadzik yep
10:22 CBro2007 cool
10:22 CBro2007 thanks
10:24 moritz CBro2007: perl6.org has lots of interesting links
10:24 CBro2007 is rakudo the best compiler at the moment?
10:24 moritz well, it's the most feature complete
10:24 CBro2007 yeah I am here --> http://dev.perl.org/perl6/
10:24 moritz niecza is the fastest, I think
10:25 moritz perl6.org is more up-to-date, generally
10:25 CBro2007 cool
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10:25 CBro2007 I use macosx
10:26 tadzik oh, you'll probably have prove issues with panda then :)
10:26 CBro2007 so niecza is for CLR/.NET stuff on windows platform yeah?
10:26 tadzik no, it runs on any platform I think
10:26 moritz CBro2007: I use niecza with mono on linux
10:26 tadzik as long as you have mono
10:26 moritz CBro2007: works on a mac too (iirc colomon uses that)
10:26 tadzik (gosh, isn't setting compilation slow?)
10:26 CBro2007 so will I have dramas installing rakudo on macosx
10:27 CBro2007 ok just saw your post
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10:27 CBro2007 guys should I download --> Rakudo Star 2011.04 release
10:28 moritz either that, or built the latest compiler from source
10:28 moritz rakudo: say join ' ', sort { $^b <=> $^a }, 1, 2, 3
10:28 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«3 2 1␤»
10:29 moritz rakudo: say join ' ', sort  1, 2, 3
10:29 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
10:29 CBro2007 show off :)
10:29 CBro2007 hehe
10:29 CBro2007 These tarballs do not contain the documentation or modules found in Rakudo Star. It is strongly recommended that you download a Rakudo Star distribution unless you are a developer looking to hack on the compiler internals.
10:30 CBro2007 so I just want to mess with p6 and see if can work on modifying a p5 module to p6
10:30 CBro2007 so the distro should do for me yeah? or you reckon I will have dramas on the mac
10:31 tadzik not neceserilly
10:31 tadzik well Star contains Rakudo, Parrot, Book and some modules
10:31 tadzik you can install Parrot and Rakudo by hand, and install modules you want manually, no problem with tha
10:32 CBro2007 i wil start by downloading the source and building it
10:32 CBro2007 so what do you recommend finally? build from source yeah?
10:33 moritz that's what all the cool folks do :-)
10:33 CBro2007 hehe
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10:33 moritz I can't really tell - I build rakudo at least daily, because I'm a rakudo contributor
10:33 moritz so I've never seen the need for tarballs - but that's just me
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10:34 CBro2007 yeah your case is different
10:34 CBro2007 :)
10:34 CBro2007 ok i need ICU
10:34 CBro2007 hm
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10:37 dalek rakudo/nom: 2ad1cba | moritz++ | src/core/Any.pm:
10:37 dalek rakudo/nom: add &sort sub; only works without a comparison block for now
10:37 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2ad1cba315
10:44 tadzik arr, I was just writing that! :)
10:44 tadzik but I'm trying to hit the comparison sub case too
10:45 tadzik invoke() not implemented in class 'Callable'. That sounds wrongish
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10:48 JimmyZ good early evening, #perl6
10:51 eiro hello
10:52 eiro any node.js like in perl6 ?
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11:16 tadzik what do you mean?
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11:29 CBro2007 http://pastebin.com/H7Yj1Ugu
11:29 CBro2007 I get this error while doing a "make"
11:29 eiro tadzik, something to easily deal with async., long polls, callbacks ...
11:31 CBro2007 can I get some help guys?
11:31 CBro2007 wonder why it f'ed up there
11:31 CBro2007 :)
11:32 eiro got to go ... bbl
11:34 tadzik huh
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11:42 JimmyZ CBro2007:  looks like there is a space  between PERL  and  6
11:43 JimmyZ CBro2007: try to rename PERL 6 to perl6 or something without space ?
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12:12 mberends CBro2007: aye, JimmyZ++ is right, spaces in file and directory names are the work of the devil.
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12:15 mberends Who would ever call a directory "My Documents" or "Program Files"?  That's the dumbest idea ever!
12:16 JimmyZ blame Mircosoft!
12:16 mberends maybe that should be "Micro Soft" ;)
12:16 JimmyZ hehe
12:18 tadzik tricky bastards. Yeah, why didn't they use that?
12:19 mberends it was probably a moment of weakness
12:21 mberends of course, they could have done worse and called them "My Documents, " and "Program FIles, " ;)
12:24 mberends *Files of course.  After all, you should never have a need to type them, you can always click on them with the mouse, and leave the actual coding to the professionals.
12:27 * mberends senses that one of his 'pet peeve' buttons must have been pushed
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13:16 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
13:16 phenny pmichaud: 16 Jul 01:56Z <[Coke]> tell pmichaud nom: say +"4/2".WHAT
13:16 mberends hello pm
13:16 pmichaud nom: say +"4/2".WHAT
13:16 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Segmentation fault␤»
13:16 pmichaud hmmmmm
13:17 pmichaud nom: say +"4/5".WHAT
13:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Segmentation fault␤»
13:17 pmichaud nom: say +"1/2".WHAT
13:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Segmentation fault␤»
13:17 pmichaud oh
13:17 pmichaud nom: say (+"4/2").WHAT
13:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
13:17 pmichaud nom: say +Rat
13:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
13:17 pmichaud nom: say "4/2".WHAT
13:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
13:18 mberends ah
13:18 flussence nom: say +"Str()"
13:18 pmichaud nom:  say +Str
13:18 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:18 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Segmentation fault␤»
13:18 pmichaud that be it
13:18 flussence nom: say +"foo"
13:18 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«0␤»
13:18 flussence huh
13:20 jlaire nom: +Str
13:20 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Segmentation fault␤»
13:20 jlaire nom: +Mu
13:20 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'prefix:<+>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Numeric $a)␤:(Any $a)␤␤current instr.: 'prefix:<+>' pc 430528 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:104920) (src/gen/CORE.setting:1091)␤»
13:23 pmichaud nom: say +Any
13:23 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤0␤»
13:23 pmichaud nom: say +Int
13:23 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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13:29 dalek nqp-rx: 232e5cf | pmichaud++ | README:
13:29 dalek nqp-rx: Update NQP -> NQP-rx .
13:29 dalek nqp-rx: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/commit/232e5cf2ba
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13:46 CBro2007 hi all I am trying to build from source and get this error when I run "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot" --> http://pastebin.com/CDadwnaH
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13:46 CBro2007 can someone help me understand what the problem is please?
13:46 CBro2007 its macosx
13:47 CBro2007 i installed ICU earlier
13:47 CBro2007 and it seems to be installed correctly
13:48 CBro2007 dyld: Library not loaded: libicuuc.48.dylib
13:48 CBro2007 don't get that bit
13:48 mberends I see.
13:48 JimmyZ joined #perl6
13:49 CBro2007 mberends: do you see the problem?
13:49 woosley joined #perl6
13:49 JimmyZ CBro2007: try to build parrot without icu
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13:49 flussence looks like it's compiling with the correct path, but not running it with it
13:50 CBro2007 JimmyZ: I ran the commands following instructions at --> http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
13:50 mberends on Linux we often need to install the -dev version of a library such as ICU. I don't know if that is also true for OSX, and I don't know why Parrot likes only -dev libraries, but that is a fact.
13:50 CBro2007 so not sure if I will then have a complete build if I don't have ICU?
13:50 CBro2007 I built ICU from source code too
13:50 flussence some unicode features might not work, that's about it
13:50 CBro2007 but not sure if it was a dev release or not
13:51 CBro2007 so how do I configure without ICU?
13:51 mberends you can build without ICU, there is a flag I think called --without-icu
13:51 moritz you can try   perl Configure --gen-parrot --gen-parrot-option=--without-icu
13:51 CBro2007 ok will give that a shot
13:51 mberends moritz++
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13:53 CBro2007 failed :(
13:53 CBro2007 sorry
13:53 CBro2007 will paste the output
13:55 CBro2007 http://pastebin.com/9A6ggTnN
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13:56 CBro2007 ok done --without-icu
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13:56 CBro2007 doing something
13:58 CBro2007 guys I did --> perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --without-icu
13:58 CBro2007 and got the same error as last time
13:58 CBro2007 dyld: Library not loaded: libicuuc.48.dylib
13:58 CBro2007 Referenced from: /Users/mk/MYPERL6/rakudo/parrot/./miniparrot
13:58 CBro2007 Reason: image not found
13:59 mberends try --gen-parrot-option=--without-icu
13:59 CBro2007 mberends: that fails also
13:59 CBro2007 check out my latest paste
14:00 flussence did you try typing it with two hyphens?
14:00 CBro2007 ah no
14:00 CBro2007 thanks :)
14:00 CBro2007 its doing something now..
14:02 mberends in future, you may be able to alter the process you used to build ICU, so that Parrot can use it after all. It may be that Parrot is not finding the file, or it may  be that the file needs to contain debug symbols.
14:03 mberends our OSX support staff are currently awol, but may reappear at any time ;)
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14:11 CBro2007 wohoo done!
14:11 CBro2007 all installed
14:11 CBro2007 need to add it to the path
14:12 mberends don't forget to 'make install' to execute perl6 from outside its own directory
14:13 CBro2007 i did make install in the same dir
14:13 CBro2007 is that wrong?
14:13 tadzik no, it's fine
14:13 CBro2007 k cool
14:13 CBro2007 so now just have to add perl6 to my path
14:13 dalek rakudo/nom: cf0da7d | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
14:13 dalek rakudo/nom: make +Str die with an unhelpful error message, instead of segfaulting
14:13 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cf0da7d5fb
14:14 mberends moritz: should you get karma for being unhelpful? ;)
14:15 moritz mberends: if the previous state was a segfault, yes
14:15 colomon moritz++
14:16 moritz I wonder if we should just add a multi prefix:<+>(Any:U) { warn "Use of uninitialized value in numeric context"; 0 }  or so
14:16 flussence that'd be nice to have.
14:17 moritz it would make it harder to write type objects that numify in a meaningful way
14:17 moritz but I think that's OK :-)
14:18 mberends I think we'd have to switch that off in strict mode
14:18 moritz strict mode?
14:18 mberends I know...
14:18 mberends it's just a rather non-strict thing to do
14:21 moritz mberends: strict would be dying outright, yes?
14:22 flussence rakudo: 6;
14:22 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5:  ( no output )
14:22 mberends moritz: I'm not sure if that is how it's specced. I suppose you can't really numify something that is undefined.
14:22 flussence (I wonder if that should say "Lax mode NYI"...)
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14:32 TimToady CBro2007: you also want to be aware of http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:Perl_6
14:33 CBro2007 TimToady: whats that for?
14:34 TimToady you can compare Perl 6 code for various tasks with other languages
14:35 TimToady all working code on either rakudo or niecza
14:35 TimToady shower &
14:35 CBro2007 TimToady: I got a list of modules that are needed in Perl6
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14:36 CBro2007 https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wik​i/Most-Wanted%3A-Modules-to-write-port
14:38 isBEKaml nom: +Rat
14:38 p6eval nom:  ( no output )
14:38 isBEKaml nom: +Any
14:38 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤»
14:38 pmichaud the warning should be in .Numeric, not prefix:<+>
14:39 isBEKaml pmichaud: what's the exact behaviour in numification of types?
14:39 pmichaud isBEKaml: not sure off the top of my head for anything but Any
14:40 CBro2007 TimToady: is say JSON (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/JSON#Perl_6) rewritten in perl 6
14:40 CBro2007 ?
14:40 isBEKaml pmichaud: ok, I'll search the spec. :)
14:41 pmichaud I suppose one could argue that numification of a type should be 0-with-warning, just as stringification of types is ""-with-warning
14:43 CBro2007 TimToady: in the sense that the perl and perl6 version look exactly the same.... so can I call perl 5 modules from perl 6?
14:43 isBEKaml pmichaud: as you said, I see no reason to numify types except perhaps to check types can be numified, but that could be done with variables too unless they throw errors.
14:44 JimmyZ CBro2007:  yes, see https://github.com/jnthn/piv​o/blob/master/cgi-bin/add.p6
14:44 JimmyZ CBro2007:  and  https://github.com/jnthn/pivo/b​lob/master/cgi-bin/get-data.p6
14:44 CBro2007 JimmyZ: what are those?
14:45 JimmyZ call perl 5 modules from perl 6 :)
14:45 isBEKaml pivo, eh? that's jnthn alright. :)
14:45 CBro2007 ah i see
14:45 isBEKaml jnthn++
14:45 JimmyZ well, sorear++ too
14:46 * tadzik renames the wiki page
14:46 isBEKaml JimmyZ: I was referring to pivo as beer. I think jnthn++'s tendency towards beer is known to you. Now I know he names stuff after beer too. :)
14:47 tadzik CBro2007: please use https://github.com/perl6/ecosy​stem/wiki/Most-Wanted-Modules from now on
14:48 CBro2007 tadzik: yes boss :)
14:49 tadzik :P
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14:49 tadzik I wanted to give that page a nicer URL for some time now
14:52 moritz how about modules.perl6.org/wanted ?
14:52 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort:{ +$_ }.map: { $_ * 2 }; @stuff.perl.say;
14:52 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«Method 'sort:{ +$_ }' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/oXcMDsv9Xt␤»
14:53 tadzik moritz: good too
14:54 dalek modules.perl6.org: 19bc176 | tadzik++ | web/index.tmpl:
14:54 dalek modules.perl6.org: Track ecosystem wiki page rename
14:54 dalek modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modul​es.perl6.org/commit/19bc176748
14:54 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort:{ +$_ }.map:{ $_ * 2 }; @stuff.perl.say;
14:54 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«Method 'sort:{ +$_ }' not found for invocant of class 'Array'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/3Vw7RifR5u␤»
14:54 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map {$_ * 2}; @stuff.perl.say;
14:54 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "@stuff.sor"␤»
14:55 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort; @stuff.perl.say;
14:55 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«["4", "8", "2", "0", "1", "9"]␤»
14:55 moritz need a : after map
14:55 moritz rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map: {$_ * 2}; say @stuff.perl
14:55 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«["4", "8", "2", "0", "1", "9"]␤»
14:56 isBEKaml moritz: that's what I gave the first time around but rakudo seemed to be confused about numification before passing to map.
14:56 isBEKaml ah
14:56 moritz rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>;say  @stuff.sort.map(* * 2_).perl
14:56 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say  @stuf"␤»
14:56 isBEKaml moritz: btw, sort isn't inplace?
14:56 moritz isBEKaml: you just never do anything with the resut value of .map
14:56 moritz rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>;say  @stuff.sort.map(* * 2).perl
14:56 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«(0, 2, 4, 8, 16, 18)␤»
14:57 moritz no, there's not much that is in-place these days
14:57 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map: {* * 2}.perl.say;
14:58 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤No candidates found to invoke for method 'map' on object of type 'Parcel'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : &block;; *%_)␤:(Mu : %block;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/EJAMdKId6f␤»
14:58 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map:(* * 2).perl.say;
14:58 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed parameter at line 22, near "* * 2).per"␤»
14:58 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map(* * 2).perl.say;
14:58 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«(0, 2, 4, 8, 16, 18)␤»
14:59 isBEKaml moritz: that example was straight off spec. it doesn't see the block, it seems.
14:59 isBEKaml moritz++ # resident expert on p6coding :)
15:00 moritz rakudo might get the precedence wrong in casecase like @a.map: {block}.another_method
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15:01 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; my @blah = @stuff.sort.map: {* * 2}; @blah.perl.say; # how about if it were the last?
15:01 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«[{ ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }, { ... }]␤»
15:01 isBEKaml boo
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15:02 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; my @blah = @stuff.sort.map: {* * 2}; @blah.join(",").perl.say;
15:02 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«"_block1108,_block1108,_block11​08,_block1108,_block1108,_block1108"␤»
15:02 isBEKaml moritz++ again.
15:02 moritz isBEKaml: * * 2 itself constructs a block
15:03 moritz isBEKaml: if you put anther { } around it, it creates a block that then returns the block created by * * 2
15:03 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; my @blah = @stuff.sort.map:{ {* * 2} }; @blah.join(",").perl.say;
15:03 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«Method 'map:{ {* * 2} }' not found for invocant of class 'Parcel'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/htcSWXT6Ie␤»
15:04 moritz the form with no space between : and { is called an adverbial block, and not yet implemented in rakudo
15:04 isBEKaml block of blocks? should be an useful datastructure, perhaps.
15:04 moritz like higher-order functions
15:04 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; my @blah = @stuff.sort.map: { {* * 2} }; @blah.join(",").perl.say;
15:04 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«"_block1120,_block1120,_block11​20,_block1120,_block1120,_block1120"␤»
15:04 moritz rakudo: say { * + 3 }.().(5)
15:04 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«8␤»
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15:05 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; my @blah = @stuff.sort.map: {* * 2}.() ; @blah.join(",").perl.say;
15:05 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«"0,2,4,8,16,18"␤»
15:06 isBEKaml I now know how it feels getting back in after sometime. :)
15:06 isBEKaml moritz: btw, there were some build failures last night that I reported here. Received no response, were they resolved?
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15:10 isBEKaml moritz: here: https://gist.github.com/1086781
15:12 isBEKaml rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map: {* * 2}.().perl.say;
15:12 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«{ ... }␤No candidates found to invoke for method 'map' on object of type 'Parcel'; available candidates have signatures:␤:(Mu : &block;; *%_)␤:(Mu : %block;; *%_)␤␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/T_mgcj7TVq␤»
15:13 isBEKaml hmm
15:15 isBEKaml pmichaud: Unless I missed something, the spec only talks about numification of values, not types. I think it's fair that the compiler should warn when numifying types.
15:15 * isBEKaml tries building rakudo again
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15:19 moritz isBEKaml: it just means "random memory fuckup", that error message
15:19 moritz isBEKaml: when I encounter such a thing, I usually nuke everything with 'git clean -xdf' and try again
15:20 isBEKaml moritz: that's what I tried now. Let's see after another hour or so. (that's how long it takes to build rakudo on my machine) :)
15:20 isBEKaml make realclean && git clean -xdf
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15:20 moritz :(
15:21 isBEKaml I know, I think it's worth the wait if you guys are going to wittle down core.pir step to something much smaller.
15:22 moritz setting compilation seems slow in nom again too :(
15:22 tadzik yeah :(
15:23 tadzik seems it was a matter of size
15:23 * moritz hopes for pmichaud++'s awesome new regex engine to speed up the parsing
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15:23 moritz tadzik: right
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15:27 jlaire rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map({({$_ * 2})}).map({ $_.() }).perl.say
15:27 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«(0, 2, 4, 8, 16, 18)␤»
15:27 jlaire rakudo: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map({({$_ * 2})}).map(*.()).perl.say
15:27 p6eval rakudo 1ddda5: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Whatever'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/p0aBe48eal␤»
15:27 jlaire niecza: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map({({$_ * 2})}).map({ $_.() }).perl.say
15:27 p6eval niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«(0, 2, 4, 8, 16, 18).list␤»
15:27 jlaire niecza: my @stuff = <4 8 2 0 1 9>; @stuff.sort.map({({$_ * 2})}).map(*.()).perl.say
15:27 p6eval niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method postcircumfix:<( )> in class Whatever␤  at /tmp/kSHWtzWib1 line 1 (MAIN mainline @ 4) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1890 (CORE C885_ANON @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 189…
15:27 jlaire hm
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15:39 pmichaud nom's setting is somewhat bigger than masters
15:40 pmichaud yes, I'm hoping the regex engine can speed it up.
15:41 pmichaud I've been distracted by @housetasks the past couple of days, but I'm hoping/expecting to get back to work on it this evening.
15:41 CBro2007 whats a good place to look at a lot of sample p6 code?
15:42 pmichaud CBro2007: rosettacode.org
15:42 CBro2007 pmichaud: i hear that you are one of the main developers working on Rakudo
15:42 CBro2007 ?
15:43 pmichaud CBro2007: I work on it from time to time, yes.
15:43 CBro2007 k
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16:37 isBEKaml moritz: same failure. :(
16:37 isBEKaml https://gist.github.com/1087764
16:39 pmichaud isBEKaml: there was a patch that needed to be applied to rakudo for gc write barriers... did that ever get applied?
16:39 pmichaud This looks suspiciously like that problem.
16:40 isBEKaml pmichaud: not sure. I'm checking git logs
16:41 isBEKaml pmichaud: this is on master. was that patch to be applied on master?
16:41 pmichaud isBEKaml: yes.  https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/26
16:44 pmichaud Let me know if that patch fixes the problem, if so I'll apply it to master.
16:45 isBEKaml pmichaud: I'm applying it locally and running the build again. Will let you know in some time.
16:45 isBEKaml and yes, this machine has a lower memory than most. 512 megs.
16:46 pmichaud isBEKaml: many thanks
16:48 isBEKaml pmichaud: no problem, if atleast this is how I can contribute after some time. :)
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18:01 isBEKaml phenny: tell pmichaud That patch does solve the build failure on my machine. Thanks! :)
18:01 phenny isBEKaml: I'll pass that on when pmichaud is around.
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18:14 dalek rakudo: 1c91ecb | (Rakudo Perl)++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
18:14 dalek rakudo: Merge pull request #26 from atrodo/master
18:14 dalek rakudo:
18:14 dalek rakudo: The new GC needs write barriers for certain ops
18:14 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/1c91ecb6ea
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18:46 dalek rakudo: f63b825 | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
18:46 dalek rakudo: Bump PARROT_REVISION.
18:46 dalek rakudo: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f63b825892
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22:50 Fuad hello folks
22:56 sorear hello, Fuad
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