Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-07-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 sorear What methods are Stash required to support?
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00:35 dalek niecza: ea1fc9e | sorear++ | / (5 files):
00:35 dalek niecza: Implement .WHO and provide indexing on Stash
00:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ea1fc9e009
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04:36 [perlhack] It might rain today.:-)
04:37 TimToady Not here. :)
04:37 [perlhack] :-)Peking was rain.
04:37 TimToady They always told us to see Beijing now.  ;)
04:37 TimToady s/see/say/
04:37 [perlhack] :-)
04:38 TimToady well, it's 北京 either way...
04:39 [perlhack] TimToady, where are you now
04:39 TimToady it never occured to me that 南京 was the other one :)
04:39 TimToady California
04:39 TimToady *occurred
04:40 [perlhack] :-)American ....
04:40 TimToady California is the 西京 of America :)
04:41 [perlhack] O:-)i am wrong.
04:42 [perlhack] What do you want to eat for dinner ?
04:42 TimToady already ate
04:42 TimToady it's almost bedtime
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04:44 [perlhack] i am here at noon.
04:44 [perlhack] haha
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04:49 [perlhack] TimToady, Go to bed early it,i wish you dreams:-)
04:49 TimToady thanks
04:50 [perlhack] not at all.
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06:00 sorear [perlhack]: hi
06:01 [perlhack] hi sorear
06:01 [perlhack] nice to meet you
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06:02 nine sorear: just curious. Is something of S17 implemented in Niecza?
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06:10 sorear nine: no
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06:51 dalek niecza: 7c5619c | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
06:51 dalek niecza: Implement postcircumfix fallback to {at,bind,exists,delete}_{key,pos}; use it for Stash
06:51 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7c5619c07a
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07:08 nine awwaiid: my topic just got accepted officially :)
07:08 sorear topics?  YAPC?
07:09 nine sorear: no, my bachelor paper: "Design of concurrency features of the Perl 6 programming language and
07:09 nine prototype for the Rakudo Perl 6 implementation."
07:09 sorear he he he
07:09 sorear good luck
07:09 nine IOW: working on S17
07:09 sorear hint: parrot is not threadsafe
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07:10 sorear you could probably make a passable prototype using coroutines, and hack the Rakudo signature binder to yield() every 1000 subroutine entries
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07:12 nine Yep. Something like that might be a good first step. It actually doesn't have to be real OS level multithreading to be a useful test for the spec
07:12 moritz nine++
07:12 sorear nine: I'd like to spend much more time talking about this with you.  I think S17 is insane in quite a few places
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07:14 sorear well, two mostly
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07:17 sorear 1. atomic code blocks as currently specified break the "you pay for what you use" rule, since every single Scalar access needs to check if there's a contend {} on the stack
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07:17 sorear I'd rather have my $x is txn;  but there may be a better way yet
07:17 masak wow! ++nine
07:17 sorear 2. the correct (deadlock-free) way to handle asynchronous signals isn't control exceptions, it's starting a thread to handle them
07:19 masak is there anything that can be done to a threading model to prepare a lnaguage for better supporting the Actor model?
07:19 nine sorear: well I'm very open for discussion, since I do not know enough about the problem space to have strong opinions anyway :)
07:19 nine sorear: will you be at YAPC::EU?
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07:19 sorear NO
07:19 sorear No
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07:20 mberends sorear: if you're still unsure what niecza bits to work on next, could you bump up the priority of calling native libraries (a kind of niecza/Zavolaj facility) ?
07:20 sorear I'm mostly familiar with STM and CSP, not Actors
07:20 sorear mberends: *nod* but I'm currently focusing on ::()
07:20 mberends :-)
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07:29 CBro2007 what is the meaning of "binding" in p6?
07:30 CBro2007 rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my Int $x = 4; @a[0] := $x; $x+=2; say @a[0];
07:30 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«6␤»
07:31 CBro2007 so saying @a[0] := $x ... doesn't bind only the types but it also makes them somehow point to the same value? like pointers
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07:33 sorear CBro2007: yes
07:33 sorear it works both ways
07:33 CBro2007 sorear: what is this used for?
07:33 CBro2007 i mean when would you use such a thing?
07:33 sorear creating aliases to values
07:34 sorear it's what makes parameter binding work
07:34 sorear sub foo($x is rw) { ... }
07:34 sorear foo($y)
07:34 sorear it's like $x := $y
07:34 CBro2007 k
07:35 sorear it's generally useful when you need to call a function or something and use the lvalue multiple times
07:35 CBro2007 but in that instance that is automatically taken care of ... I mean for param binding
07:35 sorear my $a := find_hash().{find_key()}; say "old=$a"; $a = 5
07:36 sorear without :=, you would need two variables, one for the hash and one for the key, and you'd need to do the hash access twice
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07:36 CBro2007 haven't looked much into hashes yet
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07:37 CBro2007 but what is the first line doing?
07:37 CBro2007 whats find_hash?
07:37 sorear some function
07:37 CBro2007 some made up fn
07:37 CBro2007 ok
07:37 CBro2007 so you are first looking for the hash and then when you find the hash you look for a key?
07:38 sorear yes
07:38 CBro2007 and what is $a bound to?
07:38 CBro2007 the key
07:38 CBro2007 ?
07:38 sorear the hash element
07:38 CBro2007 oh right yeah
07:38 CBro2007 i meant the element sorry
07:38 CBro2007 ok.
07:39 CBro2007 I still don't get why I need 2 vars sorry :(
07:40 sorear my $hash = find_hash(); my $key = find_key(); say "old = $hash{$key}"; $hash{$key} = 5;
07:40 CBro2007 I mean if you did "find_hash().{find_key()}" shouldn't that just return an element
07:40 sorear see, two vars
07:40 nine CBro2007: no it returns the value. But you cannot assign to that
07:40 nine CBro2007: it's just the same as in Perl 5
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07:41 sorear niecza: my %hash = (a => 9); sub find_hash { %hash }; sub find_key { "a" }; my $elt = find_hash().{find_key()}; say "old = $elt"; $elt = 5;  say %hash.perl
07:41 p6eval niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«old = 9␤{"a" => 9}.hash␤»
07:42 sorear see, it doesn't work
07:42 sorear using = makes a copy
07:42 sorear niecza: my %hash = (a => 9); sub find_hash { %hash }; sub find_key { "a" }; my $elt := find_hash().{find_key()}; say "old = $elt"; $elt = 5;  say %hash.perl
07:42 sorear := makes it work
07:42 p6eval niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«old = 9␤{"a" => 5}.hash␤»
07:42 CBro2007 ok gotcha now
07:43 CBro2007 I had forgotten that your last statement of $a = 5, actually was now going to modify the hash element
07:43 CBro2007 hmm interesting :)
07:44 sorear CBro2007: when you first came in here you were talking about a research project involving Perl 6.
07:44 sorear CBro2007: I haven't yet gotten a chance to ask, but I'm curious.
07:44 CBro2007 sorear: nah its not about p6.. I was wondering if I could use p6 for it
07:44 CBro2007 :)
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07:45 sorear What is the project, if I may?
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07:45 CBro2007 so for the project I just wanted to make sure that p6 would work, but I guess I will have to stick with p5 for now and if time permits also write the same things in p6 (if possible)
07:46 CBro2007 its a geo application - something like google maps - but more a search engine for spatial objects.
07:47 CBro2007 also looking at how best to index spatio-temporal data
07:48 CBro2007 so I was thinking I need some sorta OO ... but at the same time it will be lots of prototyping and having to do and redo stuff.. so I don't want to write everything in C
07:48 CBro2007 but if some bits are too slow then I can write those things in C
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07:49 CBro2007 but seems like p6 might not be a 100% useful for that at the moment... but I like the syntax
07:49 CBro2007 sorear: did I answer your qn?
07:49 sorear yes
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07:50 CBro2007 cool ... so any thoughts/comments?
07:50 CBro2007 you reckon its worth trying it out in p6?
07:51 CBro2007 I mean the advantage I see is that I can choose my language as long as I can fix stuff when I hit a dead end ... wouldn't have this choice for a company project I guess :)
07:52 sorear If you want my personal opinion - I'd rather stick with p5 for this, because existing p6 compilers are *much* slower than the p5 compiler
07:53 mberends CBro2007: I think p6 might be convenient for rapid prototyping with small quantities of data, but memory consumption and speed would be bad when it comes to production quantities of geodata.
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07:53 sorear niecza takes 40 seconds to parse 6,000 lines of code; perl 5 can parse 100,000 lines in 2 seconds
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07:53 CBro2007 yeh I noticed that the p6 compilers are a bit slow atm
07:54 CBro2007 mberends: yeah agreed... thats why I am thinking I still want to keep p5 as the main project
07:54 sorear (I don't have a current Rakudo figure; it was 300 a few months ago)
07:54 CBro2007 ok
07:54 CBro2007 Its just that the other guys in my group are mostly Java heads... and I cannot be bothered with all the java OO
07:55 CBro2007 was thinking of doing this stuff in C++ -- but then perl is so much quicker to code in :)
07:55 mberends CBro2007: also, p5 has a mature though inconvenient way of binding to almost any native library, regardless of its source language.
07:55 sorear Yes.
07:55 CBro2007 some people suggested getting into Python... but cannot be arsed learning a new lang
07:55 nine CBro2007: don't bother :)
07:55 CBro2007 mberends: you mean the P5 FFI yeah?
07:56 Su-Shee use p5 with moose and you're halfway there in p6, at least conceptionally.
07:56 sorear Personally I would probably start with p5 or haskell
07:56 CBro2007 Su-Shee: yeah I got to look into Moose
07:56 * moritz conceptionally disagrees with Su-Shee
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07:56 sorear you need to remember Brooks' law(?): Plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow
07:56 CBro2007 sorear: I have done haskell before.. but didn't get into Monads
07:57 sorear probability that you will completely rewrite your project between now and release: >> 0.99
07:57 Su-Shee moritz: why? doesn't p6 have roles anymore etc? ;)
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07:57 mberends CBro2007: no, for native code I mean XS: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlxs.html
07:57 sorear so don't worry about releasability when starting
07:57 CBro2007 I mean I have always used p5 for quick and dirty scripts ... sometime in the past for bigger projects.. so don't think I need to learn ONE more scipring lang
07:57 CBro2007 mberends: ah ok XS
07:58 moritz Su-Shee: no, IMHO p5 + Moose gets you about 5% there, not 50% :-)
07:58 sorear CBro2007: (monads) don't try to understand them, just use them
07:59 nine CBro2007: CBro2007: if you need to call C code, try Inline::C. Should be much easier to learn than XS
07:59 CBro2007 sorear: hehe... yeah the kinda stuff we did in haskell was ok.. but I didn't work on any practical examples really. Just things like walking a tree, playing with lists etc
07:59 CBro2007 nine: ok
07:59 sorear CBro2007: "we"?
07:59 CBro2007 but do you guys think its hard to maintain a p5 and p6 equivalent at the same time?
08:00 CBro2007 sorear: sorry "we" being the students in the course on FP :)
08:00 sorear ah.
08:02 * sorear has not figured out how to get inside the minds of non-selftaught programmerws
08:02 Su-Shee CBro2007: why would that be hard?
08:03 sorear (I mean I can't relate to their experiences and modes of thinking)
08:03 CBro2007 Su-Shee: just thinking it might be time consuming to do it twice ... I mean my main idea behind going with p5 or p6 is to be able to prototype stuff quicker than the java dudes :)
08:03 mberends CBro2007: I think maintaining p5 and p6 side by side will be extra work, though not as much as double the effort. The existing p5 solutions often help to design the p6 solutions.
08:03 Su-Shee you're quick do to stuff with tools you know really well.
08:04 sorear CBro2007: is your primary area of study software, geography, or something else?
08:04 CBro2007 sorear: primary is s/w yeah ... not geography
08:04 moritz CBro2007: don't listen to them, coding in Perl 6 is fun, so do it. When it stops being fun, you can still migrate away :-)
08:04 sorear CBro2007: is this some kind of contest?
08:05 CBro2007 moritz: spoken like a true p6 evangelist :)
08:05 moritz :-)
08:05 CBro2007 I think I agree to what some of the guys have said ... p6 compilers are much slower...so I still want to produce stuff with "decent speed"
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08:06 CBro2007 sorear: sorry .. you mean the project?
08:06 nine CBro2007: I guess for a prototype performance would not be important
08:06 sorear CBro2007: yes
08:06 CBro2007 nine: it would if you want to produce results and publish them :)
08:06 sorear CBro2007: niecza's runtime speed is quite tolerable.  I'd estimate 1/2 - 1/10 as fast as Perl 5 at most primitives
08:07 CBro2007 sorear: nah its just research for writing papers
08:07 CBro2007 sorear: ok
08:07 sorear CBro2007: I'm wondering why you want to work faster than your project-mates.  Is this a non-cooperative task?
08:07 moritz maybe just intrinsic motivation? :-)
08:07 CBro2007 yeah we are not working on the exact same problem
08:08 CBro2007 nah its just that I haven't started yet... but I have seen some of the other guys work and they are really good with Java
08:08 CBro2007 In my experience, java is good to read, but its like a million lines with too many classes and methods etc etc.
08:09 CBro2007 don't think we will be "sharing" lots of code
08:09 moritz Java is just very verbose.
08:09 sorear where Java really shines is machine readability
08:09 CBro2007 moritz: i agree
08:09 Su-Shee use smalltalk then. you'd get the whole traits/roles concept along.
08:10 sorear it's designed poorly for human usage, but Java refactoring tools are second to not much
08:10 CBro2007 having recently gotten into things like haskell.. I notice that p6 borrows a lot of these concepts and so does python ... so it would be more fun coding
08:10 sorear http://www.wall.org/~larry/pm.html
08:11 moritz yes, Perl 6 borrows from every language that has some bright ideas :-)
08:11 CBro2007 the only thing I noticed was that my fellow students who were into Java were able to build some nice GUIs
08:11 CBro2007 moritz: and thats how it should be :)
08:11 moritz $ ./perl6 -e 'say ::("Int")'
08:11 moritz Int()
08:11 moritz \o/
08:13 moritz $ ./perl6 -e 'my $x = 3; say ::(q[$x])'
08:13 moritz 3
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: e923236 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: unnegate a condition, because it is easier to read that way. No functional change
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9232369a0
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: d724066 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: get the very simplest case of indirect name lookups via ::() working
08:13 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d7240666d6
08:14 sorear looks like I blew my chance :)
08:14 beekor haay moritz, i'm all new to this, but was reading S32 Containers and looking at tests indicated and the last several like minmax, any, all, one, none, comb have no test listed
08:14 beekor so my Q is, if i wanted to write some tests, would that be a good place to start, and is that updated there?
08:15 beekor i was gonna grep the dir for those and see if they had tests somewhere.
08:15 moritz beekor: welcome to #perl6
08:15 beekor but havent gotten there yet.
08:15 beekor ha hey thanks.
08:15 sorear welcome, beekor.
08:15 moritz beekor: I'm pretty sure that some of them already have tests, but they are not properly crosslinked yet
08:15 beekor okay.
08:16 moritz beekor: for example there's t/spec/S32-str/comb.t
08:16 moritz beekor: adding a "smartlink" into that file would be great
08:16 beekor hm! gotcha.
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08:16 moritz beekor: the documents at perlcabal.org/syn/ are updated every hour or so with new crosslinks
08:17 moritz beekor: do you have a github ID?
08:17 beekor i do not.  i've probably should.
08:17 beekor ha.  but yeah.
08:19 moritz beekor: I know of something else that needs testing, and is probably not hard
08:19 beekor i am now: beekor
08:19 beekor yassah?
08:19 moritz hugme: add beekor to perl6
08:19 * hugme hugs beekor. Welcome to the perl6 github organization
08:19 moritz now you have commit access to the 'roast' repo (and a few others)
08:20 beekor i seee that.  huh!
08:20 beekor okay.
08:20 moritz beekor: regex matches produce Match objects, which should be false in boolean context if the match failed
08:20 moritz rakudo: 'a' ~~ /a/; say $/.Bool
08:20 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
08:20 moritz rakudo: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.Bool
08:20 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
08:20 moritz we don't have good tests for that
08:21 moritz we've had bugs in two different compilers where Match objects where always True
08:21 beekor gotcha.
08:21 moritz benabik++ noted that lack of tests yesterday
08:21 moritz (and I contradicted, but didn't found the tests that I thought existed)
08:22 beekor okay.  let me see what i can figure out.
08:23 beekor i'll most probably be back with questions.  anyone else in particular i should ask?  or just The Channel ?
08:23 beekor i guess that probably depends on my question a bit.  ha.
08:25 beekor i will keep an eye out for benabik also.
08:25 moritz beekor: just ask here
08:25 beekor k.
08:25 moritz beekor: I can answer most questions about the test suite, but I'm not always available
08:26 moritz it might make sense to start a new test file for testing properties of the Match object
08:26 beekor yeah gotcha.   i'm never in too huge of a hurry.
08:27 sorear look at S04
08:27 sorear S05
08:27 beekor k.
08:28 sorear make a new file in S05-match/, I think
08:28 moritz +1
08:28 moritz niecza: 'a' ~~ /a/; say $/
08:28 p6eval niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«a␤»
08:28 moritz niecza: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.defined
08:28 p6eval niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
08:29 sorear perl6: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.perl
08:29 moritz niecza: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/ === Match
08:29 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ from => 1,␤ orig => "a",␤ to   => -3,␤)␤»
08:29 p6eval ..niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«Match␤»
08:29 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.16/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' trapped b…
08:29 p6eval niecza v7-41-g7c5619c: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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08:30 moritz I think it makes sense to return the Match type object for a failed match
08:30 moritz pmichaud: any opinions?
08:34 sorear nom: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.perl
08:34 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«␤»
08:34 sorear nom: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.defined
08:34 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
08:34 sorear nom: 'a' ~~ /b/; say $/.to
08:34 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«-3␤»
08:35 moritz just because cursors use $!to < $!from to indicate false matches internally doesn't mean we should propagate that to the user
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08:40 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: b5cd9ac | moritz++ | src/core/operators.pm:
08:40 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: deal gracefully with NYI case of ::() lookups
08:40 dalek rakudo/nom-indirect-name-lookup: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b5cd9ac197
08:47 beekor okay, i'm gonna save all this and reread.  i'm headed to bed.
08:47 beekor is there a singlefile of all the synopsis's combined ?
08:54 beekor i'd have to really think whether i'd want to write me something to parse and get and append it all into one
08:54 moritz beekor: not that I know of. People usually just clone the perl6/specs repo on github, and read the docs with perldoc if they want if offlien
08:54 beekor or just spend the time printing it at all.
08:54 beekor okay.  that just looked like a good source of straight info.
08:54 beekor i was reading the perl6 book that's also on github.  that has been pleasant so far.
08:54 moritz \o/
08:54 beekor hee haa !
08:54 beekor ooh big rain sweeping in here.  just got rough out.
08:54 moritz guess who is one of the authors...
08:54 beekor yeah i just saw.  i went to look for its url.
08:54 beekor i think i also saw something p6 written by you from like '03?
08:54 beekor maybe twasnt you.  but i was reading, and wondering how relevant all the grammar still was.
08:54 moritz that's highly unlikly, since I first started with Perl 6 in 2006
08:54 beekor okay, well it was another common name i oft see.
08:54 beekor ha.
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08:54 moritz though of course somebody could have erased my memory in the mean time...
08:54 beekor you may have had a traumatic 6 incident.
08:54 beekor best to maybe not think of such things.
08:55 beekor okay.  i am off to bed.
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08:55 beekor pleasant to chat with ya'll !
08:55 moritz good night beekor
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09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: fcd142d | moritz++ | src/ (3 files):
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: first attempt at indirect name loookup.
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom:
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: Does not work yet, method term:sym<name> in Actions.pm needs to learn
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: not to touch indirect name lookups first
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fcd142d9ce
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: e923236 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: unnegate a condition, because it is easier to read that way. No functional change
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9232369a0
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: d724066 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: get the very simplest case of indirect name lookups via ::() working
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d7240666d6
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: b5cd9ac | moritz++ | src/core/operators.pm:
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: deal gracefully with NYI case of ::() lookups
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b5cd9ac197
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: 0f7be02 | moritz++ | src/ (3 files):
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: Merge branch 'nom-indirect-name-lookup' into nom
09:00 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f7be0264a
09:07 moritz evalbot rebuild nom
09:07 p6eval OK (started asyncronously)
09:08 BinGOs did you mean 'asynchronously'
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09:09 sorear yes.  not worth fixing.
09:10 dalek evalbot: 0b6e35a | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
09:10 dalek evalbot: fix typo, BinGOs++
09:10 dalek evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/0b6e35a2e9
09:10 moritz nom: say ::("List").new(1, 2).perl
09:10 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
09:17 moritz nom: say ::("List").new(1, 2).perl
09:17 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«(1, 2).list␤»
09:17 moritz \o/
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09:21 sorear hello [perlhack]
09:21 [perlhack] hello sorear.
09:21 [perlhack] what are you doing ?
09:22 [perlhack] is now known as perlhack
09:22 sorear writing the OUTER case of indexing for lexical pseudopackages
09:22 perlhack :-)that's impresive.
09:22 phenny perlhack: 15 Jul 06:34Z <mberends> tell perlhack the following British reference estimates that a vocabulary of 1500 English words is a practical minimum. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/14130942
09:23 perlhack very thanks meberend and phenny
09:23 sorear phenny is a bt
09:23 sorear bot
09:24 moritz no need to be impolite to a bot :-)
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09:24 perlhack i this year can learned 4300 words
09:26 perlhack :-)haha we used to it
09:26 moritz http://testyourvocab.com/ # just found this a few days ago
09:27 moritz it's a nice test, but it shows the same percentiles for native speakers and foreigners, which is a bit useless
09:27 perlhack thanks
09:28 perlhack i am reading
09:28 moritz it estimated that I know about 17k English words, which would be very low for a native speaker
09:30 perlhack :-)Wa .....
09:30 perlhack powerful..
09:33 moritz if you learn 4300 words a year, you will be there in less than 5 years :-)
09:33 sorear what?  moritz isn't native?!
09:33 perlhack :-D
09:34 moritz sorear: I know I'm breaking a convention here, having an all lower-case handle and not being native :-)
09:34 perlhack Chinese people will use 4300 words
09:35 sorear words mostly don't matter
09:36 sorear correct use of tenses and moods is the true marker
09:36 perlhack :-)how many would you ?
09:36 perlhack 17000 words ?
09:37 sorear "I will use 17000 words" does not really make sense
09:38 sorear if I use an average of 7 words per minute for the next 90 years, then I will use 300,000,000 words
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09:39 sorear someone who will use 17000 words is either on their deathbed or amazingly laconic
09:39 perlhack wa ....
09:39 araujo joined #perl6
09:39 perlhack powerful ....
09:39 Util left #perl6
09:40 perlhack i want to learn
09:40 moritz sorear: I think the question was more about the number of distinct words, not overall numbers
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09:41 sorear still the use of the future tense is... odd
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09:41 sorear my 2-month-old cousin will probably use about as many distinct words as I will
09:43 perlhack I wish i were american.
09:44 sorear I wish I weren't.
09:44 huf there are worse things to be
09:45 huf perlhack: are you unamerican then? a pinko commie agitator?
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09:48 dalek niecza: ef5768b | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
09:48 dalek niecza: First draft of StashCursor mechanism
09:48 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/ef5768b681
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09:54 * sorear out
09:58 mberends huf: many a true word spoken in jest, perhaps unintentionally :P perlhack is Chinese.
09:59 CBro2007 are junctions used a lot in p6?
09:59 perlhack huf,haha  i am a Chinese person.
09:59 perlhack :-)
09:59 huf :)
10:00 CBro2007 I just see the use of "|" (Any)
10:00 perlhack :-)
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10:02 moritz CBro2007: they aren't use too much in good code
10:02 CBro2007 ok
10:02 moritz CBro2007: mostly just in conditions - if you pass them around through long code paths, things can get a bit fragile
10:03 CBro2007 ok but I can do without yeah?
10:03 CBro2007 just trying to understand what the advantage of using junctions would be
10:03 moritz mostly just that you can write things shorter
10:03 mberends CBro2007: people have too-high expectations that junctions might have set-like properties, and they don't.
10:04 moritz if  $i == 0 || $i == 1 { ... }
10:04 moritz can be replaced with
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10:04 moritz if $i == 0|1 { ... }
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10:04 CBro2007 hm ok
10:05 moritz it's also useful for things like   my @filter = @raw.grep: Str & *.defined & /^text/;
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10:07 CBro2007 ok
10:07 jerome joined #perl6
10:09 CBro2007 whats the latest perl6 reference for all its functions and operators etc?
10:09 CBro2007 moritz: you said perl6.org was the most up to date site yeah?
10:09 moritz yes
10:11 CBro2007 k
10:13 moritz .u EURO
10:13 phenny U+20AC EURO SIGN (€)
10:21 CBro2007 moritz: when I say something like "say @list;" ... I just get the elements listed out with no spaces or commas between them. Is that normal?
10:22 CBro2007 or should I be writing it as something else?
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10:22 moritz CBro2007: by newest spec, you'll get spaces between the list items. rakudo hasn't caught up yet (except in the 'nom' branch)
10:22 moritz the change is fairly recent, about 2 weeks ago
10:23 CBro2007 hmm .. is there something I could do in the meanwhile? just to see the output?
10:23 moritz nom: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a
10:23 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
10:23 moritz you mean with spaces?
10:23 CBro2007 yeah or with commads
10:23 CBro2007 commas
10:23 moritz rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a.join(', ')
10:23 p6eval rakudo f63b82:  ( no output )
10:23 moritz rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.join(', ')
10:23 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«1, 2, 3␤»
10:23 CBro2007 right
10:24 moritz rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say ~@a # shorter, but not quite so pretty
10:24 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
10:24 moritz rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.perl; #quite informative
10:24 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]␤»
10:24 CBro2007 yep
10:25 CBro2007 man rakudo is super slow in execution though
10:25 moritz you can even get the variable names in the debug output with a little trick:
10:25 CBro2007 so i guess the priority is to get more modules written and then work on improving its performance yeah?
10:25 moritz rakudo: my @a = 1, 2, 3; my $x = 3; say (:@a, :$x).perl
10:26 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«("a" => [1, 2, 3], "x" => 3)␤»
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10:26 moritz CBro2007: any help in that direction would be appreciated
10:26 CBro2007 the (a,b) syntax is a Pair yeah?
10:26 moritz :@a is what constructs the pair
10:26 moritz it's the same as   a => @a
10:27 moritz the ,  makes a list
10:27 moritz and I just put parens around it so that I can call a method on the list
10:27 CBro2007 moritz: in which direction? performance or modules?
10:27 moritz CBro2007: both :-)
10:27 moritz CBro2007: performance is not easy though, it requires quite some familarity with parrot
10:27 CBro2007 yeah true
10:28 moritz good news is that the nom branch is quite a bit faster
10:28 moritz http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/how-fast-is-nom.writeback
10:28 CBro2007 was wondering if I have to complete reading the article before I can try writing some p5 module to p6
10:28 CBro2007 coz now I am looking at laziness - like gather and take and infinite lists
10:29 CBro2007 don't know if they are used so often
10:29 CBro2007 esp infinite lists
10:30 CBro2007 is it possible to make a sub lazy?
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10:37 arnsholt You can always return a lazy list, for example
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10:42 CBro2007 k
10:43 wamba left #perl6
10:43 smash hello everyone
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10:45 CBro2007 moritz: i like your examples for the MAIN sub :)  "--bad_lang PHP "
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10:57 CBro2007 moritz: you around?
10:57 CBro2007 just wondering with the list of modules in --> https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wiki/Most-Wanted%3A-Modules-to-write-port
10:58 CBro2007 what was the "Crypto" package? was there any crypto package from CPAN that you guys had in mind?
11:00 ciphertext left #perl6
11:00 CBro2007 anyone? :)
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11:29 moritz Crypt::CBC is "the" cryptography module on CPAN
11:29 moritz not sure what the author(s) of that page meant
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11:45 nine CBro2007: seems like that page vanished?
11:45 CBro2007 nine: which page?
11:46 moritz you might need to replace %3A with # or so
11:46 CBro2007 ah k
11:47 ab5tract left #perl6
11:47 CBro2007 moritz: you said --> "not sure what the author(s) of that page meant"?
11:47 CBro2007 didn't follow you
11:47 moritz with "Crypto"
11:48 CBro2007 ok
11:49 nine Ah, https://github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wiki/Most-Wanted-Modules seems to be the correct URL
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12:08 Su-Shee I wrote "Crypto" and I meant stuff like sha, gpg, hashsum stuff, ssl and so on.
12:11 moritz nom: say ::('X').WHO<Base>
12:11 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Base()␤»
12:11 moritz \o/
12:12 moritz nom: class A::B { }; say ::('A').WHO<B>
12:12 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
12:12 moritz nom: class A::B { }; say ::('A').WHO
12:12 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«().hash␤»
12:13 moritz seems that the way the thing is declared matters
12:13 moritz packages A { class B { } }   vs.  class A::B
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12:32 moritz http://confluence.jetbrains.net/display/Kotlin/Basic+syntax+walk-through interesting new language
12:32 moritz statically typed
12:32 moritz they seem to get some syntax aspect right that new languages often screw up, IMHO
12:33 moritz for example they have keywords for declataions (both functions and variables)
12:33 moritz just the optional semicolon looks dangerous
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12:49 moritz http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2784086 a bit of analysis
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13:34 dalek book: 0e73eb7 | duff++ | book-ideas:
13:34 dalek book: add a small idea
13:34 dalek book: review: https://github.com/perl6/book/commit/0e73eb74df
13:35 moritz PerlJam: I thought about that too. But first I wanted to implement and spec them :-)
13:36 PerlJam moritz: then think of it as added pressure to do so  ;)
13:37 Jackneill perl6: print: .
13:37 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "print: ."␤»
13:37 p6eval ..niecza v7-42-gef5768b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Bogus statement at /tmp/pSaoCvADvg line 1:␤------> [32mprint: [33m⏏[31m.[0m␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
13:37 p6eval ..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected end of input␤    expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript␤    at /tmp/YRctrSIpD2 line 1, column 9␤»
13:37 PerlJam maybe we should setup a site where people can vote on the importance of the book ideas.  :-)
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13:39 * [Coke] hurls http://www.boingboing.net/2011/07/19/tom-the-dancing-bug-58.html for... moritz? masak?
13:40 flussence rakudo: print ord("\187")
13:41 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\1' at line 22, near "87\")"␤»
13:41 PerlJam [Coke]: heh!
13:41 flussence erm.
13:41 flussence rakudo: print :8(187)
13:41 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«Invalid character (8)! Please try again :) ␤  in main program body at line 1:src/metamodel/RoleToInstanceApplier.nqp␤»
13:41 flussence whaa
13:41 flussence rakudo: print 0o187
13:41 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "print 0o18"␤»
13:41 flussence :(
13:41 flussence oh
13:42 * flussence smacks self in head
13:42 moritz flussence: :8($string) tries to interpret $string as an octal value
13:42 moritz but those can only go up to 7
13:42 flussence I saw \[:digit:]{3} and thought "that looks octal"
13:43 flussence ...wait...
13:43 flussence pugs: say ord("\187")
13:43 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«pugs: Error: Invalid escape sequence \187; write as decimal \c187 or octal \o187 instead␤»
13:43 flussence .u 187
13:43 phenny flussence: Sorry, no results for '187'.
13:45 moritz flussence: what do you want to do?
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13:45 flussence wondering what that "\187" pugs was expecting is
13:49 Jackneill left #perl6
13:49 PerlJam probably a guillemet
13:50 drbean left #perl6
13:50 moritz pugs: say chr(187)
13:50 p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Â»␤»
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14:18 itz version 2011.04-1240-g0f7be02 <=- is that "nom"?
14:18 pmichaud good morning, #perl6
14:19 moritz good am, pm
14:19 moritz nom: say ::('Int')
14:19 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
14:19 moritz itz: yes
14:19 itz ty
14:20 pmichaud moritz: \o/
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14:20 moritz git show 2011.04-1240-g0f7be02  even tells you in the commit message that it's nom :-) (ok, it could be lying)
14:20 moritz pmichaud: and I think I know how to handle the A::B case, but it won't work in all cases right now
14:21 moritz nom: say ::('X').WHO<Base> # looks up X::Base
14:21 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Base()␤»
14:21 moritz but
14:21 moritz nom: class A::B { }; say ::('A').WHO<B>
14:21 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
14:21 moritz doesn't work yet - but I think it's a bug in the A::B declaration, not a "real" limitation
14:22 pmichaud it's a bug in the A::B decl, yes.
14:26 moritz anyway, adding ::() was fun
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14:28 moritz nom: $Foo::('x')::Bar
14:28 p6eval nom:  ( no output )
14:28 moritz nom: say $Foo::('x')::Bar
14:28 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
14:28 moritz I have the suspicion that this is misparsed
14:28 moritz but I'm not entirely sure
14:29 moritz anyway, I shouldn't distract pmichaud++ from working on the regex engine :-)
14:30 itz nom: say $*VM<config>
14:30 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'at_key' not found for invocant of class 'Failure'␤current instr.: 'postcircumfix:<{ }>' pc 466539 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:122974) (src/gen/CORE.setting:600)␤»
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14:38 moritz nom: say X.WHO.WHAT
14:38 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Stash()␤»
14:39 moritz nom: say X.WHO.exists('Base')
14:39 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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14:40 JimmyZ rakudo: 'eval'().say
14:40 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«invoke() not implemented in class 'Perl6Str'␤  in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Pra3FRY1Ad␤»
14:40 JimmyZ rakudo: 'ls'.'eval'().say
14:40 p6eval rakudo f63b82:  ( no output )
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14:48 moritz nom: say nqp::split('::', 'foo::bar::baz').perl
14:48 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Method 'perl' not found for invocant of class 'ResizableStringArray'␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 89 ((file unknown):17848077) (/tmp/M3ehS54sbF:1)␤»
14:49 moritz oh, it's not an RPA
14:49 moritz so it's not type-mapped
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15:17 CBro2007 guys what is the "but" operator doing here? my $x = $today but Day::Tue;
15:18 CBro2007 earlier on ...   enum Day ('Mon', 'Tue', 'Wed', 'Thu', 'Fri', 'Sat', 'Sun');
15:18 CBro2007 I don't quite get what its doing ...
15:24 TimToady do you know about mixins?
15:28 TimToady anyway, this is discussed in S12:1869
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15:29 CBro2007 TimToady: no I don't know mixins
15:29 CBro2007 is that a p5 concept too? or just p6?
15:29 TimToady Moose does it in p5
15:30 TimToady it's basically taking an object and putting it into a new subclass with new functionality
15:30 TimToady where the old class is now the parent class
15:31 TimToady do you know how to follow that S12 link I gave you?
15:31 TimToady it's highlighted as a link on http://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-07-20#i_4142422
15:34 CBro2007 TimToady: do you recommend reading the "Using Perl6" book?
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15:34 CBro2007 or is that a bit out of date?
15:34 TimToady it's pretty up-to-date
15:35 TimToady as far as I know, anyway; haven't read it myself
15:35 CBro2007 okie
15:35 * TimToady learned Perl 6 a different way...
15:35 * JimmyZ recommends reading SYN and testcase
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15:36 CBro2007 TimToady: how?
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15:37 CBro2007 TimToady: I have done perl 5 , but have had a gap of a few years .. so missed out on things like Moose
15:37 CBro2007 I am currently reading the perl 5 to 6 article moritz wrote
15:37 CBro2007 gives me a good idea as to what is possible in p6
15:38 CBro2007 someone recommended reading "Modern Perl" for p5
15:40 CBro2007 TimToady: I thought you where gonna tell me your trick :)
15:41 TimToady it's easy to learn a language when you design it yourself, for some definition of "easy" that doesn't seem to include much "ease"
15:41 CBro2007 hm
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15:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 2357ca6 | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
15:54 dalek rakudo/nom: implement Str.split(Regex, :$all) -- no limit yet
15:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2357ca6d3e
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15:55 TimToady .oO(the possibilities are limitless...)
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15:56 CBro2007 TimToady: can you refer me to the latest documentation on all functions.. for example: I was wondering what this was --> $file.get.words;
15:56 CBro2007 so I want to see all methods that belong to $file object
15:56 moritz $file is of type IO
15:56 CBro2007 yep I just want a list that I can refer to while coding
15:56 moritz so you have to look in S32/IO
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15:57 CBro2007 so is there no site that shows all the built-in functions that are available?
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15:57 TimToady rakudo: say ~IO.^methods
15:57 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«close eof get ins lines open print printf say read write getc slurp t d e f s l z created modified accessed changed move chmod copy link autoflush path stat Numeric Real Int Rat Num abs conjugate exp log log10 sqrt roots to-radians from-radians floor ceiling round …
15:57 moritz say ~IO.^methods(:local)
15:57 moritz rakudo: say ~IO.^methods(:local)
15:57 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«close eof get ins lines open print printf say read write getc slurp t d e f s l z created modified accessed changed move chmod copy link autoflush path stat␤»
15:58 TimToady nom: say IO.^methods
15:58 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«open close eof get lines print say <anon> <anon> eager elems end classify infinite flat hash list pick roll reverse sort values Array grep join map min postcircumfix:<[ ]> at_pos postcircumfix:<{ }> ACCEPTS WHERE WHICH Bool defined new CREATE bless BUILDALL Numeric Str Strin…
15:58 kytibe left #perl6
15:58 CBro2007 but I want to see what each of these mean :)
15:58 kst joined #perl6
15:58 TimToady ah, well, you didn't ask that :)
15:58 CBro2007 sorry my bad :)
15:59 TimToady but moritz++ already mentioned S32/IO
15:59 moritz it's the closest we have right now
15:59 CBro2007 I have no idea what S32 means :)
15:59 TimToady see http://perlcabal.org/syn/
15:59 TimToady and look for IO
16:01 CBro2007 thanks
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16:01 TimToady moritz: I note that S32 doesn't link usefully in the irclog
16:02 TimToady CBro2007: note that IO is still a draft, and is a bit under/over-engineered in spots
16:02 CBro2007 ah well.. its the best for now :)
16:02 TimToady and in some cases just wrong
16:02 CBro2007 something is better than nothing
16:02 TimToady troo
16:02 am0c joined #perl6
16:02 TimToady except when it isn't :)
16:02 CBro2007 hehe
16:02 moritz TimToady: mental note taken
16:02 CBro2007 am just going through that book
16:02 CBro2007 looking at some sample code
16:03 icwiener left #perl6
16:03 dalek rakudo/nom: 69fe226 | moritz++ | src/core/operators.pm:
16:03 dalek rakudo/nom: implement indirect name lookup of composed names ::("X::Base")
16:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/69fe22654e
16:03 icwiener joined #perl6
16:07 moritz evalbot rebuild nom
16:07 p6eval OK (started asyncronously)
16:07 moritz evalbot control restart
16:07 p6eval left #perl6
16:10 moritz it seems that in some cases the internet connection of p6eval is glacially slow
16:10 p6eval joined #perl6
16:10 moritz especially when it comes to opening new connections
16:10 moritz decommute&
16:15 ashleydev it'd be cool to be able to do `say IO.^methods_with_docs` or `say IO.^man`  and get the pod with the methods and such
16:15 CBro2007 left #perl6
16:24 pmichaud moritz++  # excellent indirect names implementation
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16:31 TimToady ashleydev: eventually IO.WHY should get to that info
16:31 ashleydev nice
16:31 TimToady maybe accessible via %=POD as well, somehow
16:31 * benabik wonders what .WHY.WHY.WHY would document.
16:31 wamba left #perl6
16:32 pmichaud it would show how Perl is currently being used by 4-year-olds.
16:33 pmichaud taken to its logical extension, .WHY.WHY.WHY.WHY....   ultimately returns "Because Larry said so."
16:33 benabik pmichaud++
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16:52 lichtkind thou__: 2 more projects ready i come nearer every day :)
16:56 birdwindupbird left #perl6
16:59 [Coke] I haz a google problem. ".WHY" returns results for "WHY". Help, perl-six-kenobi.
16:59 daxim left #perl6
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17:04 TimToady You don't have a google problem; google has a you problem.  :)
17:08 _twitch left #perl6
17:08 flussence er... should nom be using 1.6GB RAM on S03-sequence/basic.t?
17:09 bs338 joined #perl6
17:10 pmichaud flussence: I don't know.  I can't really say without knowing how much memory other programs run in your environment. (more)
17:10 pmichaud perhaps comment out tests and see if there's any one test that pushes up the memory usage
17:11 Kivutarrr joined #perl6
17:11 pmichaud what are you using to measure memory usage?
17:12 dakkar left #perl6
17:12 flussence htop, a full memory usage bar and a process that's been stuck at 100% cpu for 2 hours :)
17:12 bs338 left #perl6
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17:12 diakopter ooo htop
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17:14 flussence aha
17:14 flussence it's running 63 on that machine
17:14 flussence it's marked SKIP on my other one...
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17:19 pmichaud nom:  say &[+].count
17:19 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:19 pmichaud ...wonder what's happening there.
17:20 flussence rakudo: say [+] ()
17:20 p6eval rakudo f63b82: OUTPUT«0␤»
17:20 flussence that?
17:20 pmichaud nom:  say &infix:<+>.count
17:20 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:21 lichtkind left #perl6
17:21 moritz the &[+] version should only return arity 2 candidates
17:22 pmichaud nom:  sub f(|$) { * };  say &f.count
17:22 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:22 pmichaud aha.
17:23 pmichaud flussence: test #68 in S03-sequence/basic.t
17:23 pmichaud infinite loops, currently
17:30 mj41 left #perl6
17:32 pmichaud > say &[+].count
17:32 pmichaud 2
17:32 kjeldahl joined #perl6
17:32 flussence huh, this isn't right...
17:32 flussence my test run gets stuck after "ok 62 - alternating False and True is always Bool"
17:33 flussence the next one is line 104
17:33 lichtkind joined #perl6
17:33 pmichaud what does the .rakudo file look like?
17:34 pmichaud and is this 'nom' or 'master'?
17:34 flussence nom
17:34 flussence ah
17:34 flussence it doesn't seem to be making a .rakudo file...
17:34 flussence and t/spec is on the wrong branch... /facepalm
17:35 lichtkind left #perl6
17:35 dalek roast: df522ec | pmichaud++ | S03-sequence/basic.t:
17:35 dalek roast: Unfudge a passing test.
17:35 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/df522ec269
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: e2279de | pmichaud++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix .count for various numeric operators.  flussence++ .
17:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e2279dedc9
17:40 uvtc joined #perl6
17:42 uvtc Noticed that the recent "Upcoming Rakudo releases" post (at rakudo.org) did not appear at planetsix. Seems like it ought've to ... ought to have.
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18:06 moritz nom: say 'abc' ~~ m:g/./
18:06 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in clone()␤current instr.: 'nqp;QRegex;P6Regex;Grammar;nibbler' pc 34391 (src/stage2/QRegex.pir:11337) (src/stage2/QRegex.nqp:771)␤»
18:10 [Coke] uvtc - checking planetsix source...
18:11 [Coke] get this! rakudo.org's blog is not in sixplanet.
18:11 [Coke] Shall I rectify that?
18:12 sorear good * #perl6
18:12 Zapelius joined #perl6
18:13 [Coke] (added)
18:13 [Coke] uvtc++
18:14 [Coke] give it an hour or so to catchup.
18:18 [Coke] OHEY. I still can't build rakudo/nom on windows 7.
18:24 [Coke] so, erum... help?
18:26 Jackneill left #perl6
18:26 PerlJam [Coke]: what dev environment do you use on windows 7?
18:28 [Coke] gitbash for git; visual studio for compiling, strawberry perl.
18:29 [Coke] so, I build parrot, test, install, fine. build nqp, install, fine. config rakudo/nom, fine. build, BOOM
18:29 [Coke] (complains that the version of nom is too old, but not at configure time, only at build time.
18:31 PerlJam [Coke]: is this with --gen-parrot/--gen-nqp  or are they built separately?
18:32 [Coke] built separately - I can't build them together at the moment, because git-bash and visual command prompt are separate shells.
18:33 PerlJam [Coke]: do you have an install dir in rakudo though?
18:33 [Coke] no
18:33 [Coke] I build and install parrot, build and install nqp.
18:34 PerlJam aye, I mean even accidentally have that dir
18:36 PerlJam the reason I ask is that I seem to recall that, at build time, rakudo/install/bin/nqp will be given precedence over an actual installed-somewhere-else-but-still-in-your-path nqp
18:36 [Coke] I'll double check. in the middle of rebuilding nom on new parrot.
18:37 PerlJam oh, but you said it complains that nom is too old?  that's odd.
18:38 leprevost joined #perl6
18:38 * PerlJam read "nqp" instead of "nom"
18:40 PerlJam in any case, I've had trouble with build-time rakudo using the wrong nqp in the past, so it may still be problematic
18:40 [Coke] no install directory.
18:40 [Coke] ok, just rebuilt parrot(latest) and nqp(latest)
18:42 molaf left #perl6
18:44 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/1095608
18:45 tokuhirom joined #perl6
18:49 [Coke] This is nqp version  built on parrot 3.6.0 revision
18:50 [Coke] ... So, the problem is probably that nqp requires the git executable during the build.
18:50 PerlJam sounds perfectly reasonable.
18:51 [Coke] I'll have to reinstall git bash to make that work, I suppose.
18:51 tokuhirom left #perl6
18:52 [Coke] In the meantime, I'll just comment that part of the check-versions script out.
18:55 Zapelius left #perl6
18:55 PerlJam [Coke]: Hmm.  Looking at the code, it doesn't look like it uses git at all to me.
18:56 [Coke] how does nqp get its version id?
18:56 PerlJam it's baked-in when built
18:57 [Coke] ... and how does the /build/ get it?
18:58 PerlJam what does "nqp --show-config | grep nqp::version" (from the command line)  show?
18:58 donri left #perl6
18:59 [Coke] nqp::version=
19:00 [Coke] ... it's using git --describe in tools/build/gen-version.pl
19:00 PerlJam maybe the build should do something different (carp?) when it can't obtain the version
19:00 [Coke] so, *boom*. not everyone has git executables in their path, esp. on windows.
19:00 [Coke] (imagine a windows user with tortoiseGit, e.g.)
19:01 PerlJam [Coke]: devs should have git in their paths  :)
19:01 [Coke] this isn't a "dev" thing, it's a "builder" thing.
19:02 [Coke] crud, meeting.
19:04 wamba joined #perl6
19:05 moritz pmichaud: ping
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19:09 moritz nom: say reverse(1, 2)
19:09 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &reverse␤current instr.: '_block1002' pc 80 ((file unknown):82812394) (/tmp/UgBpbSNJSv:1)␤»
19:14 donri left #perl6
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19:19 moritz nom: say 42 gcd 22
19:19 p6eval nom: OUTPUT«2␤»
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19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: 823f449 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: implement &floor and &reverse, add more test files
19:32 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/823f4491bc
19:33 ab5tract left #perl6
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19:39 dalek roast: 3d679db | moritz++ | / (3 files):
19:39 dalek roast: some rakudo un/refudging, simplify 99problems-31-to-40.t
19:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3d679db811
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20:35 CBro2007_ is now known as CBro2007
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20:42 * [Coke] kicks off a smolder run for parrot on win7.
20:42 [Coke] er, for rakudo
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20:54 dalek specs: 4dbf083 | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Str.pod:
20:54 dalek specs: [S32/Str] fix braino
20:54 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/4dbf083d4b
20:58 Fuad joined #perl6
21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: e6f6b27 | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: basic Str.comb implementation
21:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e6f6b2776f
21:01 tokuhirom joined #perl6
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21:19 [Coke] hurm. "make smoke" now failing because it's ignoring the http_proxy I set. wtf.
21:19 [Coke] sorry, "make spectest_smolder"
21:20 smash left #perl6
21:20 [Coke] also, why does "make spectest_smolder" keep rebuilding a ton of stuff every time I invoke it?
21:21 [Coke] even just "nmake spectest" is doing that.
21:22 * [Coke] will attempt to debug this later. :(
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21:26 Fuad hi all
21:26 takadonet Fuad: yo
21:27 Fuad takadonet: hey, sup mang
21:28 takadonet Fuad: @ work u?
21:28 timbunce joined #perl6
21:30 Fuad takadonet: same here
21:31 [Coke] I need "make t\spec" to use the http url instead of the git:// url.
21:32 [Coke] add a config option?
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21:47 Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
21:51 tadzik_kindle joined #perl6
21:51 tadzik_kindle hello zebras
21:51 [Coke] are you really irc'ing from your kindle?
21:51 [Coke] because... ew.
21:52 tadzik_kindle say hello to the broken internet in the hotel
21:53 tadzik_kindle masak says hi
21:55 [Coke] decommute == "head home from work", yes?
21:56 [Coke] or is it "arrive at home after commuting"?
21:57 tadzik_kindle dunno
21:58 Transformer joined #perl6
21:58 ingy o/
21:58 tadzik_kindle anything interesting in the perl6 world today?
21:59 tadzik_kindle ingy o/
21:59 ingy hi tadzik_kindle :)
21:59 Transformer left #perl6
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22:08 ashleyde1 joined #perl6
22:08 tadzik_kindle we have very limited internet access here in bison land
22:08 mj41_nb joined #perl6
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22:13 dju_ is now known as dju
22:16 sorear hello tadzik_kindle
22:16 tadzik_kindle hi
22:17 * sorear is playing with MY::.{$name}
22:18 * tadzik_kindle and masak_near_kindle are writing the Little Animal Farm game
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22:49 benabik Was tadzik on from a Kindle?  Kindles have IRC?
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