Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-11-21

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 dorlamm joined #perl6
00:07 * diakopter finds it funny that the syntax highlighting setting that works the best for Actions.nqp is the C language setting.
00:08 sorear I should try that
00:08 sorear I've been using filetype=perl for most of my Perl 6 hacking
00:08 arnsholt Not petdance/vim-perl?
00:09 diakopter this is in Notepad++, so it probably won't match up with vim
00:09 sorear which works pretty well but has an unfortunate tendency to get stuck in the wrong mode
00:09 arnsholt Yeah, that makes sense =)
00:09 arnsholt Yeah, it does get lost occasionally
00:09 sorear arnsholt: the problem with petdance's perl6 mode is that it is infuriatingly slow
00:11 sorear at 300-500 lines I can type faster than vim can update the highlighting (and it does so synchronously, so my typing is slowed down)
00:11 sorear at 2000-6000 lines just _opening_ files takes far too long
00:12 sorear this is of course not a complaint against petdance.  Rather it is an instantiation of Alias' old complaint that Perl 6 cannot be effectively parsed by tools
00:13 diakopter should m:Perl5// support codeblocks?
00:13 sorear why not?
00:13 diakopter ok
00:17 diakopter sorear: should m:Perl5// be sigspace?
00:20 Sarten-X joined #perl6
00:21 sorear diakopter: I do not understand why you are asking this question.  Yes, spaces are significant in Perl 5 regexes
00:21 replore joined #perl6
00:21 diakopter ok, I was thinking of //x
00:25 arnsholt sorear: Yeah, those are good points
00:25 arnsholt Most of my Perl 6 is smaller than that though
00:45 cooper joined #perl6
00:51 mdxi joined #perl6
00:57 PacoLinux joined #perl6
01:00 Trashlord joined #perl6
01:11 woosley joined #perl6
01:14 lestrrat joined #perl6
01:32 PacoLinux joined #perl6
02:11 diakopter making <[\c32 .. \c126]> work is quite tricky
02:12 diakopter esp if <[\c1 .. Z]> is allowed
02:15 diakopter niecza: say '"' ~~ /<[\c32 .. \c126]>/
02:15 p6eval niecza v11-24-gcdd4e66: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Action method charspec not yet implemented at /tmp/L7CMFR3epG line 1:�------> [32msay '"' ~~ /<[\c32[33m�[31m .. \c126]>/[0m��Action method backslash:c not yet implemented at /tmp/L7CMFR3epG line 1:�------> [32msay '"' …
02:28 cognominal_ joined #perl6
02:33 cognominal___ joined #perl6
02:33 alvis joined #perl6
03:06 ggoebel joined #perl6
03:18 pat_js joined #perl6
03:21 envi_ joined #perl6
03:21 wolfman2000 joined #perl6
03:41 satyavvd joined #perl6
04:18 diakopter karma larry
04:18 aloha larry has karma of 157.
04:18 diakopter karma sorear
04:19 aloha sorear has karma of 2027.
04:20 sorear karma TimToady
04:20 aloha TimToady has karma of 250.
04:20 sorear diakopter: note that these figures are skewed because we've gone through several karma bots
04:21 diakopter yeah
04:21 diakopter karma audreyt
04:21 aloha audreyt has karma of 3.
04:22 PacoLinux joined #perl6
04:22 pat_js hi, does someone know which of these dispatch:<…> methods do the "normal" dispatch?
04:22 molaf joined #perl6
04:23 pat_js like I can override dispatch:<.=> to get something else for $foo.="whatever"()
04:23 pat_js but which of these do I override for a "normal" method?
04:24 pat_js perl6: my $foo = "mumble" but role {method dispatch:<.=> ($var){say "Got $var"}}; $foo.='blabla'()
04:25 p6eval niecza v11-24-gcdd4e66: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Useless use of quotes at /tmp/ZLr6GROAcj line 1:â�¤------> [32m ($var){say "Got $var"}}; $foo.='blabla'[33mâ��[31m()[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method blabla in class Str but ANONâ�¤  at /tmp/ZLr6GROAcj line 1 (mainl…
04:25 p6eval ..rakudo 4cff8e: OUTPUT«Got blabla␤»
04:25 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "$foo"␤    expecting "=", "::", "handles", "is", bare trait, subroutine parameters, trait, block, context, ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/a0zlS8XBeT line 1, column 4␤»
04:26 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
04:26 sorear pat_js: the dispatch:<.=> methods are, as far as I can tell, an undocumented and nonstandardized Rakudo implementation detail
04:27 pat_js ah, ok thanks
04:28 sorear pat_js: I suppose you are trying to do something like perl 5's AUTOLOAD?
04:29 pat_js sorear: sortof, just looking at Rosettacode to solve some simple task, and thought "Send_an_unknown_method_call" would be possible with all that metamodel stuff
04:29 sorear niecza: class Foo { method FALLBACK($name, *@args) { say "got $name" } }; my $foo = Foo.new; say $foo.defined; $foo.blabla # here's what niecza can do for you
04:29 p6eval niecza v11-24-gcdd4e66: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  @args is declared but not used at /tmp/DuccPvbalS line 1:â�¤------> [32mclass Foo { method FALLBACK($name, *[33mâ��[31m@args) { say "got $name" } }; my $foo = [0mâ�¤â�¤Bool::Trueâ�¤got blablaâ�¤Â»
04:30 sorear pat_js: the "correct" Rakudo way involves overriding find_method on the metaclass
04:30 sorear jnthn please correct me if I'm wrong - I don't think users are supposed to touch dispatch:*
04:30 * sorear queries p6eval to try and get somthing working
04:30 patch hi all
04:31 patch i just fixed lots of typos in the specs
04:31 patch and am about to push them
04:31 patch should i update Last Modified or just leave it since these are not substantial changes?
04:32 diakopter when fixing typos I usually don't update it
04:32 diakopter it's up to you though
04:32 patch ok, thanks
04:43 dalek specs: 45ca8c8 | (Nick Patch)++ | S (16 files):
04:43 dalek specs: fix typos
04:43 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/45ca8c8cc4
04:44 diakopter patch: wow nice
04:57 jaldhar joined #perl6
04:59 pat_js sorear: and HOW do i override a method in the metaclass, I can't even access it properly (e.g. has no .clone)
05:02 sorear pat_js: jnthn blogged an example a few months ago
05:03 domidumont joined #perl6
05:04 sorear the spec talks about a CANDO method; Niecza's FALLBACK is closer but not quite there
05:27 pat_js sorear: yes, I found it, but when I try to run his code, it says 'can only get_how on a SixModelObject'
05:28 pat_js sorear: sorry, made some copy & paste errors
06:01 localhost joined #perl6
06:22 diakopter sorear: how goes the Unicode strivings?
06:49 sorear diakopter: blocked on tuits
06:58 koban joined #perl6
07:04 sayu joined #perl6
07:06 wtw joined #perl6
07:15 kaleem joined #perl6
07:35 wtw joined #perl6
07:50 wtw joined #perl6
08:16 koban left #perl6
08:24 mkramer joined #perl6
08:24 mkramer left #perl6
08:26 y3llow_ joined #perl6
08:28 Lothar joined #perl6
08:31 mdxi joined #perl6
08:31 mkramer1 joined #perl6
08:35 spine joined #perl6
08:39 am0c joined #perl6
08:46 mj41 joined #perl6
08:50 PacoLinux joined #perl6
08:54 masak morning, #perl6
08:54 * masak yawns
08:54 arnsholt G'day masak o/
08:54 masak wow -- I know I'm busy when it doesn't even occur to me to backlog...
08:59 masak sorear: sorry I missed your highlight yesterday -- I'd be happy to talk about promoting Niecza.
09:10 miso2217__ joined #perl6
09:11 sorear heh.. now *I'm* busy
09:11 sftp joined #perl6
09:11 Moukeddar joined #perl6
09:11 jevin_ joined #perl6
09:11 robins joined #perl6
09:26 mj41 joined #perl6
09:33 icwiener joined #perl6
09:33 Sarten-X joined #perl6
09:36 mkramer joined #perl6
09:36 jnthn mornin'
09:36 sorear heya jnthn
09:37 jnthn dang, slept through alarm...
09:37 * jnthn is meant to be catching up $dayjob project today...
09:38 cosimo joined #perl6
09:38 jnthn sorear: The dispatch:<blah> are an implementation details.
09:39 jnthn sorear: I can hide them if it's problematic that they're there.
09:39 jnthn ...somehow... :)
09:40 pomysl joined #perl6
09:40 pomysl joined #perl6
09:42 sorear jnthn: don't bother I say
09:42 sorear jnthn: maybe rename them to _dispatch:<blah>
09:43 odoacre joined #perl6
09:44 jnthn sorear: Thinking about it a little more, they may end up as privates; those are non-vritual and so the optimizer would have a better shot at inlining them.
09:53 envi_ joined #perl6
09:55 odoacre joined #perl6
10:12 tadzik 'morning
10:14 bacek joined #perl6
10:15 bacek ~~
10:15 moritz \o
10:15 bacek moritz, o/
10:18 jnthn bacek!
10:18 jnthn o/
10:20 cosimo joined #perl6
10:20 bacek jnthn, aloha :)
10:21 bacek jnthn, I was looking for you, actually.
10:21 bacek I do want to get rid of Class/Object/PMCProxy/Namespace stuff in parrot in favour of 6model.
10:21 fsergot joined #perl6
10:21 mkramer left #perl6
10:21 djanatyn awwww :(
10:22 djanatyn there are no perl6 google code in tasks
10:22 djanatyn I think
10:22 bacek jnthn, is https://github.com/jnthn/6mo​del/blob/master/overview.pod still a good starting point to understand 6model design?
10:32 daxim joined #perl6
10:33 * sorear sleep
10:33 jnthn bacek: sorry, was on phone
10:34 jnthn bacek: Yes
10:34 jnthn bacek: The key header file to read is sixmodelobject.h
10:36 jnthn bacek: http://6guts.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/slides-a​nd-a-few-words-on-representation-polymorphism/ is also interesting perhaps. Plus there's some other posts on that blog that may help
10:43 bacek jnthn, got it. Need couple of days to wrap my head around how it should fit into parrot.
10:43 bacek jnthn, I'll (probably) ll have more questions later :)
10:46 jnthn bacek: That's fine :)
10:49 PacoLinux joined #perl6
11:01 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
11:01 icwiener_ joined #perl6
11:10 kensanata joined #perl6
11:12 mls morning!
11:12 fsergot mls o/
11:12 tadzik hello mls!
11:13 mls IMHO one thing that's missing in current 6model is a "linking" phase
11:14 mls Currently everything cas to be rebuilt when nqp is recompiled
11:16 mls I think this has to go in the future. Say a distribution ships with a lot of perl6 modules, all precompiled to pbc. Then there's a securtiy issue in perl6, su an update is released.
11:16 mls So I think some kind of "run time linker" at load time would be nice, which resolves the SC slots
11:17 mls (This also means that SC entries must be "named", so there can be a lookup of some kind)
11:18 jnthn mls: People should not be shipping PBCs ever
11:18 jnthn mls: I see the PIR/PBC as a cache
11:18 mls So you want to write them in the users home directory?
11:18 mls I don't think that makes sense
11:20 jnthn mls: Or the module installation tool is responsible for installing those.
11:20 mls yeah, but what happens if there's a perl6 update?
11:20 mls You need to "recompile" all modules as well
11:20 jnthn Correct.
11:20 daxim use $XDG_CACHE_HOME, which is $HOME/.cache by default
11:20 daxim http://standards.freedesktop.org/ba​sedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
11:20 jnthn daxim: ooh, thanks
11:21 mls (except when there's no desktop)
11:21 jnthn (or you're on Windows ;))
11:21 daxim nonsense
11:21 daxim it's also good on systems that do not have a desktop
11:21 daxim I want to configure the backup regime to exclude cache dirs
11:22 mls oh, where is it set?
11:23 daxim /etc/xdg and ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs, but really read the spec.  it's not long.
11:23 mls is it set by some pam module at login time?
11:24 jnthn mls: I've already lived through the "you can update Rakudo without recompiling modules against it" days. People got a bunch of weird problems because things changed in subtle ways.
11:24 daxim called from /etc/profile.d
11:24 araujo joined #perl6
11:24 araujo joined #perl6
11:24 jnthn And there wasn't a clear error, stuff just...randomly broke.
11:27 mls Hmm, I have XDG_CONFIG_DIRS and XDG_DATA_DIRS, but to XDG_CACHE_HOME. Seems I need to update my system.
11:28 mls jnthn: But it's pretty much the same with "C" and shared libraries.
11:28 mls Saying you mist recompile everythink if there's a glibc update doesn't seem right
11:29 mls must
11:29 mls daxim: thanks for the xdb links, by the way. daxim++
11:29 mls xdg
11:30 mls one learns something everyday, I never heard of that spec
11:31 mls (oh, a "lennart" spec, is that a good or a bad sign ;) )
11:31 daxim usually a bad thing
11:32 mls ;)
11:32 jnthn mls: Remember that Perl 5 doesn't really compile anything in advance; it's done each time. We've long thought of any pre-compilation as a kind of cache, with the source file always being the authoritative thing.
11:32 jnthn mls: Compare that to C, where you never install the sources.
11:33 jnthn mls: Well, unless you're in a development situation.
11:33 * daxim grunts vaguely about statting .pmc files
11:33 mls Well, I compare it to python, which has that pbo files
11:34 mls (and we want to be faster than python ;) )
11:35 jnthn mls: And not having to do a bunch of name resolution on startup will be faster ;)
11:36 mls yes, that's also true ;)
11:36 mls afk -> lunch
11:38 mkramer joined #perl6
11:54 bbkr nom: say 123 ~~ int32
11:54 p6eval nom 4cff8e: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
11:57 domidumont joined #perl6
11:57 PacoLinux joined #perl6
12:12 Psyche^ joined #perl6
12:22 replore_ joined #perl6
12:25 mj41 joined #perl6
12:45 am0c joined #perl6
12:49 dalek nqp: 13508b4 | mls++ | src/NQP/SymbolTable.pm:
12:49 dalek nqp: use direct lexinfo access in install_lexical_symbol()
12:49 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/13508b4874
12:51 sftp joined #perl6
13:08 PacoLinux joined #perl6
13:12 am0c joined #perl6
13:18 aloha joined #perl6
14:02 mkramer joined #perl6
14:02 mkramer left #perl6
14:03 mtk joined #perl6
14:06 molaf joined #perl6
14:08 [Coke] (perl 6 GCI tasks) we can rectify that at the second task-update point.
14:09 masak when is that?
14:10 mkramer joined #perl6
14:10 plutoid joined #perl6
14:12 mkramer left #perl6
14:13 [Coke] December 16, seems.
14:13 [Coke] I'll ask in #gci on perl.org about that.
14:15 [Coke] yup. no worries, we can get p6 stuff in for that round.
14:21 mkramer joined #perl6
14:21 mkramer left #perl6
14:24 masak \o/
14:26 envi_ joined #perl6
14:27 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
14:28 masak nom: say DateTime.new() before DateTime.new(:year(2011), :month(2), :day(28))
14:28 p6eval nom 4cff8e: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'Numeric'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu, Mu %_)␤␤  in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:614␤  in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2024␤  in sub infix:<cmp> at src/gen/CORE.setting:1059␤  in sub infix:<befo…
14:28 masak since one can map DateTimes to Instants it could make sense to compare DateTimes... I think.
14:29 masak maybe there's something funny with timezones that I'm not realizing right now.
14:30 masak hm, seems the spec mandates a timezone. so it should be fine.
14:31 [Coke] We should probably get a list of tasks going ahead of time so we don't have a last minute rush.
14:32 masak speaking of last minute rush...
14:32 masak ...allow me to gently insert the idea of a "Perl 6 Advent Calendar 2011" into the minds of gentlepeople on the channel.
14:33 masak nothing says we *have* to have one this year. but it's generally a good PR thing, and one that people appreciate.
14:33 * PerlJam says we have to have one  :)
14:34 masak administration is pretty minimal; we generally make do with one or two files in a repo somewhere to coordinate themes and authors.
14:34 PerlJam (of course, if I do all the entries it'll be very boring, but so be it)
14:34 masak I volunteer for 4 or 5 entries, evenly spaced.
14:43 jnthn I can do one about Grammar::Debugger, and probably one on meta-programming
14:43 PacoLinux joined #perl6
14:43 jnthn (if those are considered interesting topics)
14:43 PerlJam jnthn: aye
14:45 masak absolutely.
14:46 masak I bet there are plenty of subjects that we've covered in previous years but that we could cover again, slightly differently.
14:47 masak for example, there's probably lots more to write about junctions. or metaoperators.
14:47 jnthn Potentially I can do one on Zavolaj 2 as well...but maybe better to wait a little on that until I get the work done ;)
14:47 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
14:47 jnthn "Look, you can natively call into C libraires!" could be nice marketing though :)
14:48 daxim libffi?
14:48 jnthn no, I'm not using libffi
14:48 jnthn I can't build the darn thing on my platform.
14:48 daxim bummer
14:48 colomon I'm hoping to do one on the mandelbrot script with a Gtk user interface -- assuming I can find time to write the code!
14:49 jnthn daxim: http://dyncall.org/ works out better on the building angle and is clean and well documented. And tested plenty "in the wild" too.
14:50 jnthn Plus has callback support...which is also maintiained on many platforms. Including Windows.
14:51 jnthn And the license lets us bundle it.
14:54 daxim :thumb:
14:59 [Coke] bundle++
15:00 jnthn afk, beer shopping ;)
15:04 masak who is Father Chrysostomos, and how did he manage to stumble across a perl6 queue ticket and run it on Perl 5.10.1? :)
15:05 masak (not that I'm judging. I do more confused things than that with frightening regularity.)
15:07 lutok joined #perl6
15:08 daxim url?  :)  # curious
15:09 daxim the father is PAUSE id sprout, also a frequent p5p-er
15:09 [Coke] masak: he's a core perl 5 contributor.
15:10 [Coke] I would have assumed he was giving us the p5 view if he didn't carp about the signature being bead.
15:10 [Coke] *bad
15:12 lutok left #perl6
15:12 masak well, it *is* bad, from a Perl 5 perspective.
15:12 masak I think data is insufficient whether he's aware he's in the p6 queue or not.
15:13 masak daxim: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Publ​ic/Bug/Display.html?id=77170
15:13 masak [Coke]: oh, core perl 5 contributor! that's why his name sounded familiar!
15:16 Trashlord joined #perl6
15:25 rafl joined #perl6
15:29 woosley joined #perl6
15:41 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
15:50 [Coke] masak: I'm assuming he did a search for all recursion tickets and didn't restrict by queue or something.
15:52 rafl seen tadzik
15:52 aloha tadzik was last seen in #parrot 4 hours 22 mins ago saying "what particulary are you interested in?".
15:53 masak [Coke]: yeah, could be.
15:56 masak I think Perl 5 and Perl 6 manage to co-exist rather well these days.
15:57 masak Perl 5 is the "low-risk, low-gain" effort, and Perl 6 is the "high-risk, high-gain" effort. a bit like Google's division into "improve ECMAScript"/"develop Dart".
16:00 kaleem joined #perl6
16:08 [Coke] http://blogs.perl.org/users/alberto_simoe​s/2011/11/the-perl-foundation-grants.html -- normal (NON hague) grant deadline extended.
16:09 jnthn oh, my hague grant...
16:09 jnthn :)
16:11 [Coke] also: http://news.perlfoundation.org/2011/1​1/hague-grant-application-plperl.html (dukeleto's pl/perl hague grant app)
16:13 masak interesting.
16:17 felher +1 on a "Perl 6 Advent Calendar 2011" :)
16:21 * masak decommutes
16:21 mkramer joined #perl6
16:22 shanny joined #perl6
16:23 Guest2721 joined #perl6
16:23 mkramer joined #perl6
16:24 mkramer joined #perl6
16:30 tadzik hello #perl6
16:30 tty234 joined #perl6
16:30 felher o/ tadzik
16:33 buubot_backup joined #perl6
16:34 tty234 joined #perl6
16:37 mkramer joined #perl6
16:43 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:43 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:44 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:44 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:45 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:45 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:46 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:46 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:47 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:48 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:49 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:49 MayDaniel joined #perl6
16:50 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:50 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:51 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:52 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:52 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:53 dukeleto joined #perl6
16:53 mikemol Regarding a P6 advent calendar, I can, of course, do another entry on P6 resources and Rosetta Code.
16:56 kaleem joined #perl6
17:14 uniejo joined #perl6
17:29 am0c joined #perl6
17:32 orafu joined #perl6
17:32 kaleem joined #perl6
17:35 PZt joined #perl6
17:38 thou joined #perl6
17:43 mkramer joined #perl6
17:48 tadzik djanatyn: ping
17:49 djanatyn tadzik: heyo
17:49 tadzik djanatyn: you were looking for Perl 6 tasks on GCI?
17:50 djanatyn Yeah!
17:50 djanatyn I found a couple that I was considering working on, but they were all perl 5
17:50 djanatyn so I was going to port Dancer plugins to Dancer 2. But if there's anything involving perl 6, I'd love to do that instead
17:50 tadzik djanatyn: we can figure out some nice tasks, I can then add and mentor them
17:51 PerlJam djanatyn: port Dancer 2 to Perl 6? :)
17:51 tadzik yes, that's nice. 48 hours enough? :)
17:52 PerlJam sukria already did all of the hard design work, porting to Perl 6 should be trivial!  ;)
17:52 tadzik also, bailador already works :)
17:52 tadzik well, worked on b
17:53 cosimo_ joined #perl6
18:02 tadzik djanatyn: how would you feel about porting a module from Perl 5/
18:02 tadzik ?
18:04 tadzik something doable, Text::Something, or even Acme::Something :)
18:05 tadzik I wonder if Plack-related stuff would be approachable, since those are just subrefs returning an array
18:06 PerlJam Anything in the Plack space would be nice for web apps on Perl 6.
18:06 tadzik yeah
18:06 tadzik I wonder if we could easily write and use Plack::Test or such
18:07 tadzik I assume those are things which utilize the 'just a subref' patter, so it doesn't require any rocket science
18:09 [Coke] Tasks cannot be added to the TPF project until December mumble.
18:09 [Coke] it is unlike last year when we could add them at will.
18:09 [Coke] there is one more "task add" point at midway; no p6 tasks until then.
18:09 PerlJam [Coke]: er, what?
18:09 [Coke] so, checkout p5 or parrot in the meantime.
18:09 [Coke] PerlJam: we (P6 folks) dropped the ball this year.
18:12 tadzik ok, that's fine
18:12 tadzik we just have to figure out tasks until Dec 16, and they'll get published then
18:14 [Coke] tadzik++ #optimist
18:15 tadzik :)
18:15 * [Coke] is double checking his facts on #parrot
18:16 [Coke] parrot suggests that the rules may be slushy. If someone has a p6 task, they should consider trying to get it in (see #gci on perl.org)
18:20 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
18:24 mkramer joined #perl6
18:27 mkramer joined #perl6
18:31 [Coke] nope. not slushy. deadline has passed, per rafl on #gci
18:32 rafl if you guys can figure out a way of subverting any of the tasks we have right now into a perl 6 project, we'll be happy to do that as well
18:33 rafl actually
18:33 rafl we just got mail about a deadline extension
18:34 rafl Nov 28. 8 UTC
18:34 rafl get cracking!
18:36 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
18:37 mkramer joined #perl6
18:42 [Coke] rafl++
18:51 djanatyn sorry for disappearing >_<
18:51 djanatyn I had calculus class
18:51 djanatyn tadzik: I would love to port a module from perl5. I have no idea how to, though
18:51 djanatyn and sure, I'll port Dancer 2. I've used Dancer, but not Dancer 2
18:52 * [Coke] wonders if there is work for a Mojo 6.
18:52 djanatyn sure :D
18:52 tadzik [Coke]: they claim so :)
18:52 tadzik istr __sri demands perldoc
18:53 tadzik djanatyn: wanna write perldocs? :)
18:53 djanatyn tadzik: yeah, I can write docs
18:53 djanatyn did you see my blog post yesterday? that's about the peak of my ability
18:54 djanatyn I know the basics of perl and have written a few scripts
18:54 tadzik djanatyn: nope, link?
18:54 tadzik djanatyn: a 'perldoc perlintro' would be a good start, I suppose
18:55 djanatyn http://djanatyn.github.com/201​1/11/19/parsing-birthdays.html
18:56 djanatyn I have a couple perl scripts on my github page - a few using SDL, and a little static website compiler using Template::Toolkit
19:01 spine joined #perl6
19:26 MayDaniel joined #perl6
19:28 [Coke] Quiet when jnthn has $dayjob work!
19:30 masak he's not the only one who has $dayjob work...
19:31 birdwindupbird joined #perl6
19:31 birdwindupbird left #perl6
19:32 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
19:33 tadzik sorry for the paste
19:33 tadzik We realize there have been some difficulties entering  and editing your
19:33 tadzik initial tasks for GCI into Melange by today so we are extending the
19:33 tadzik deadline until next Monday, November 28th at 8:00 UTC.  So please feel free
19:34 tadzik to add more tasks or edit your tasks as you see fit over the next week.
19:34 tadzik so we can figure out some Perl 6 tasks and add them
19:42 djanatyn tadzik: :D
19:42 djanatyn Do you guys know of any other pre-university students working on perl6 stuff?
19:48 masak lue.
19:59 lumi_ joined #perl6
20:02 alester joined #perl6
20:02 wooden joined #perl6
20:06 lumi_ joined #perl6
20:06 zostay joined #perl6
20:20 Moukeddar joined #perl6
20:28 ksi joined #perl6
20:38 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
20:41 mj41 joined #perl6
20:44 Sarten-X joined #perl6
20:49 wallberg joined #perl6
20:52 estrabd joined #perl6
21:01 Exodist joined #perl6
21:02 Sarten-X joined #perl6
21:19 dalek nqp/cclass: 0f3407b | diakopter++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
21:19 dalek nqp/cclass: changes to support backslash endpoints
21:19 dalek nqp/cclass: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0f3407bdd6
21:21 Sarten-X joined #perl6
21:25 cooper joined #perl6
21:25 packetknife joined #perl6
21:27 lutok joined #perl6
21:42 Sarten-X joined #perl6
21:45 pomysl joined #perl6
21:45 pomysl joined #perl6
22:00 lutok left #perl6
22:07 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
22:18 PacoLinux_ joined #perl6
22:25 * [Coke] begins a six day weekend wherein he might find some time to hack on perl6!
22:25 tadzik \o/
22:26 PerlJam [Coke]: have fun!
22:26 [Coke] see folks tomorrow.
22:28 envi_ joined #perl6
22:36 Sarten-X joined #perl6
22:38 vmspb joined #perl6
22:47 Sarten-X joined #perl6
22:53 japhb_ joined #perl6
22:53 japhb_ jnthn, ping
22:59 japhb_ phenny, ask jnthn Do you have any data about how many distinct STABLEs exist (created in the bootstrap, setting, etc.) for even an empty Perl 6 program?  My brane is tanking on https://github.com/jnthn/6mo​del/blob/master/overview.pod again, and it occurs to me I lack numbers to contextualize with.
22:59 phenny japhb_: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
23:00 vlixes joined #perl6
23:00 jnthn japhb_: pong
23:00 phenny jnthn: 22:59Z <japhb_> ask jnthn Do you have any data about how many distinct STABLEs exist (created in the bootstrap, setting, etc.) for even an empty Perl 6 program?  My brane is tanking on https://github.com/jnthn/6mo​del/blob/master/overview.pod again, and it occurs to me I lack numbers to contextualize with.
23:01 jnthn japhb_: I don't have an exact number. You can get a really good approximation by equating stable with type.
23:01 jnthn japhb_: That is, each knowhow/class/role/subset/enum/grammar declaration is an s-table
23:02 japhb_ phenny, ask jnthn Also, is there any way in the current 6model to handle native types nearly bare? (e.g. Mozilla's JS implementations where IIRC int, string, and object types are packed into special encodings of NaN in a 64-bit word, in union with a native double)
23:02 phenny japhb_: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
23:02 sorear good * #perl6
23:02 japhb_ oops, sorry, forgot to remove the phenny, ask when you showed up and I was still thinking.  ;-)
23:03 jnthn japhb_: You could write a representation that does that kind of union-y thing if you wishes.
23:03 phenny jnthn: 23:02Z <japhb_> ask jnthn Also, is there any way in the current 6model to handle native types nearly bare? (e.g. Mozilla's JS implementations where IIRC int, string, and object types are packed into special encodings of NaN in a 64-bit word, in union with a native double)
23:03 jnthn *wished
23:03 jnthn japhb_: 6model does handle native types in various ways already
23:03 japhb_ OK, so it's not completely dependent on the first word being the STABLE pointer, it's just the way all existing repr's work?
23:03 jnthn japhb_: The P6opaque REPR knows how to store them "flat" inside another object's body, for example.
23:04 jnthn japhb_: er, that bit is important. :)
23:04 jnthn japhb_: For boxed objects
23:04 jnthn japhb_: However, if you statically know what type you have then you're free to keep things around on the stack, or in a packed array.
23:04 japhb_ Oh, OK, so you can't do less than two machine words for an object
23:04 jnthn japhb_: That's what REPR API 2 was all about.
23:05 jnthn japhb_: Not if you want it to be a standalone GC-able entity rather than in a memory space managed by something else, no.
23:05 japhb_ OK
23:05 Chillance joined #perl6
23:05 jnthn japhb_: Many REPR functions take pointers into the start of the object body though
23:06 jnthn japhb_: And operate independently of if the header is there or not
23:06 jnthn So long as you know the s-table *somehow*, you're all good
23:06 japhb_ Oh, excellent.
23:06 jnthn So you could do things like C#'s stackalloc.
23:07 jnthn You'd just have the memory space per call frame
23:07 jnthn And then have one static thingy that holds the s-table pointer
23:07 japhb_ One could in theory have a VM that used a single word packing like with Mozilla JS, and just used internally-known STABLEs for the native types, and only used "real" STABLEs for non-native types.
23:07 jnthn Also, if you statically know a REPR, you can inline all of the stuff it does too. They're non-virtual.
23:07 japhb_ ooh
23:07 japhb_ nice
23:07 jnthn Yeah. I need to write a VM that does all of this some day.
23:08 japhb_ heh
23:08 jnthn In the back of my mind when I designed 6model was "how can I have all the dynamism, but still let a language like Java be able to JIT field accesses like a JVM can"
23:09 jnthn 6model is massively influenced by gradual typing.
23:09 japhb_ Yeah, I've heard you say that enough times that I believe it.  ;-)
23:09 jnthn Some days, so do I ;)
23:10 * jnthn does a little Perl 6 related stuff
23:11 japhb_ On a vaguely related performance note -- in your various valgrind/cachegrind runs, did you ever get a sense of how much the performance of Rakudo is bounded by off-CPU memory access?  (In other words, how cache-evil it is?)
23:11 Chillance joined #perl6
23:12 jnthn japhb_: I've not had chance to do cachegrind runs; it doesn't run on my platform. And the VS profiler that I do use for C doesn't give me cache miss info, sadly.
23:12 japhb_ :-(
23:12 japhb_ Ah well.
23:12 jnthn japhb_: The GC is potentially the most cache horrible.
23:12 jnthn japhb_: Though I hunted down its worst behavior there and the Parrot folks patched it a while ago
23:12 japhb_ That's good at least.
23:13 jnthn (It used to stomp all over the heap when doing "is this a pointer" analysis and was probably pathalogical for anybody with a set associative cache...)
23:14 jnthn Basically it followed a link list of memory blocks. Which were allocated to probably hit page boundaries.
23:14 japhb_ Ewww.
23:15 japhb_ And IIRC very few CPUs had high (or full) associativity past about L1 or so.
23:15 japhb_ s/had/have had/
23:15 jnthn Yeah, that's my impression too.
23:19 amkrankruleuen joined #perl6
23:25 sorear o/ jnthn
23:26 jnthn hi sorear
23:32 Ingis joined #perl6
23:37 tokuhirom joined #perl6
23:39 [particle] joined #perl6
23:41 dalek nqp/cclass: 74ca920 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
23:41 dalek nqp/cclass: Simplify and correct the backslashes with .. in charclass patch. Needs more testing.
23:41 dalek nqp/cclass: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/74ca92050e
23:45 whiteknight joined #perl6
23:52 dalek nqp: 0f3407b | diakopter++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
23:52 dalek nqp: changes to support backslash endpoints
23:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/0f3407bdd6
23:52 dalek nqp: 74ca920 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
23:52 dalek nqp: Simplify and correct the backslashes with .. in charclass patch. Needs more testing.
23:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/74ca92050e
23:52 dalek nqp: d4f6e5c | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
23:52 dalek nqp: Merge branch 'cclass'
23:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/d4f6e5c114
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 55e5294 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Bump NQP_REVISION to get char class improvements.
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/55e52940be
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: 4a57bd7 | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Some ChangeLog entries.
23:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4a57bd7ec8
23:55 jnthn phenny: tell moritz diakopter++ did some work to support backlash endpoints in char classes; I've just twiddled it a bit and updated NQP_REVISION. Hope this helps your JSON::Tiny work.
23:55 phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.

| Channels | #perl6 index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo