Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-12-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 jimmy1980 joined #perl6
00:00 lichtkind Type check failed in assignment to '$!geschwindigkeit'; expected 'Num' but got 'Rat' : bug or corect?
00:01 jnthn ...how can we know without seeing your code? :)
00:02 jnthn But if you're doing: has Num $!ichwillbier = 1.5
00:02 jnthn Or some such, then yes, correct
00:02 jnthn 1.5 is a Rat.
00:03 dalek rakudo/nom: fdba160 | jnthn++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
00:03 dalek rakudo/nom: Add round sub, so rounders.t at least compiles. It hangs, though, so this only half fixes RT#105272.
00:03 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fdba160317
00:03 raiph mberends++ for game code, advent calendar post, and posting early
00:04 jnthn colomon: Dunno if you've any idea why .round hangs?
00:05 jnthn Anyway, my hacking time's up for today
00:06 lichtkind good night
00:06 jnthn 'night, #perl6
00:06 diakopter o/
00:07 lichtkind \o
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00:17 sorear good * #perl6
00:20 felher o/
00:25 lichtkind \o
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01:37 Radvendii +j #conlang
01:37 Radvendii damn
01:37 Radvendii how do i add a channel to this irc client?
01:38 donri That quite depends on which particular IRC client it might be that you are using. :)
01:38 sorear donri: 185b3293@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.91.50.147 is a dead giveaway
01:39 sorear Radvendii: it's /j #conlang in that client
01:39 Radvendii webchat.freenode.net
01:39 Radvendii bam! thanks ;-)
01:39 Radvendii is there a command line version of irc?
01:40 sorear hundreds
01:40 sorear I am not exaggerating... writing command line irc clients is a rite of passage for hackers
01:40 sorear irssi is one of the most popular
01:40 sorear I'm using that
01:40 Radvendii ooh… then maybe i'll make on in perl 6 :-P
01:41 Radvendii does anyone have a tutorial to suggest for writing one? i have no idea where to begin.
01:42 donri sorear: ironically, my irc client does not show hostnames :)
01:48 Radvendii it seems there is a module Net::IRC for perl5 does such a module exist for perl6 as well?
01:48 sorear Radvendii: I never said it was a good idea :p
01:49 Radvendii ah.
01:50 donri but if you're feeling brave, you should look into grammars and network io
01:50 donri if you're feeling brave but lazy, you might be able to link to an existing library via blitzkost-what's-its-name, nativecall or niecza's clr support
01:51 sorear I think you mean "if you're feeling brave and have 5 years to burn"
01:51 Radvendii haha. what if im suuuper lazy and just look for one online. Irssi seems good.
01:52 donri beware that irssi sucks though
01:52 donri but don't tell anyone i said so
01:52 Radvendii oh?
01:52 Radvendii damn. what should i use?
01:52 sorear irssi sucks, the rest suck more
01:52 donri graphics in the terminal is an ugly hack
01:52 Radvendii damn!
01:52 Radvendii i dont want graphics
01:52 Radvendii i want vim-style
01:52 sorear my copy of irssi doesn't do graphics
01:52 donri the command line is great as a command line
01:52 sorear it's vim-style
01:53 donri graphical toolkits are greater as graphical toolkits
01:53 donri sorear: vim is graphical
01:53 Radvendii i mean command line vim
01:53 Radvendii not gvim
01:53 donri command line vim is graphical
01:54 donri http://www.gnu.org/s/freetalk/ is an example of a non-graphical terminal chat client
01:54 sorear bad donri.  please don't get into semantic nitpicking with the newbies
01:54 Radvendii how are you defining graphical?
01:54 donri ed is an example of a non-graphical editor
01:54 Radvendii haha. oh. why do you say graphics in command line is ugly?
01:55 donri because it's a hack
01:55 donri and i repeatedly see that biting people
01:55 donri particularly with mispastes to irc
01:55 Radvendii i dont understand...
01:55 sorear Radvendii: if you want a vim-style irc client and don't fancy spending 5 years debugging one of your own, use irssi, it's the least bad of them
01:56 donri ncurses-like interfaces remove most of the benefits of the command-line, yet only providing half-assed graphics
01:56 donri weechat is arguably better than irssi
01:56 donri if you're into that sort of thing
01:56 sorear Radvendii: since you like vim, you don't care what donri has to say
01:56 donri :)
01:56 Radvendii awesome. ill try out irssi
01:56 * donri loves gvim FWIW
01:56 Radvendii worst comes to worst, i'll stop using it ;-P
01:56 sorear Radvendii: donri is arguing against vim-style interfaces in general, not irssi in the specific
01:57 Radvendii ah
01:57 donri not vim-style in general, ncurses-style
01:57 Radvendii what's the difference?
01:57 donri well, vim in the terminal is ncurses-like
01:57 Radvendii gah! where do i get GILB?
01:57 donri but vim in itself is more than that
01:57 sorear Radvendii: donri defines vim to include gvim
01:57 Radvendii oh wait
01:58 Radvendii it tells me
01:58 Radvendii i see
01:58 sorear Radvendii: dunno, I just did sudo apt-get install irssi and angels sung for me
01:58 donri sorear: it could also be interpreted as my arguing against the modal editing of vim or something such
01:58 Radvendii i dont even have gvim. it's not compiled that way by default on mac.
01:58 donri quite oppositelike i think that part is genious
01:58 donri Radvendii: macvim?
01:59 Radvendii aw damn. sometimes i wish i used linux. but then again... i tried it. it didn't work out for me too well.
01:59 donri why not?
01:59 Radvendii but there is a version of apt-get for mac...
01:59 donri macports, homebrew and all those
01:59 Radvendii i dont remember. it was really buggy, especially with the mac trackpad
02:00 * donri does not really know mac
02:01 donri hardware might in deed suck with linux-on-a-mac
02:01 donri i've heard it working out well but might depend on the mac or how long ago you tried it
02:01 sorear FreeBSD also has a respectable package manager, sudo pkg_add -r irssi
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02:02 sorear sadly, you still can't expect to run Linux on arbitrary hardware and have it completely work
02:02 Radvendii it might also have hurt that for a while i tried arch linux
02:02 Radvendii you have to build that one up from the ground
02:02 sorear I actually hear arch linux is quite good
02:02 donri oh dear god don't use arch linux
02:02 Radvendii i struggled through getting x11 isntalled.
02:03 sorear if you can adjust to a real Unix environment :p
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02:07 benabik I would not recommend fink for the mac at this point.  It's a bit outdated and clunky.  It uses apt-get but more or less forces you to build from scratch.  Homebrew is much better.  And MacVim is the way to go for vim.
02:07 * benabik re-lurks.
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02:20 djanatyn say ~(1, 2, * + * ... *)[^10] # this piece of code still confuses me.
02:23 donri rakudo: say ~(1, 2, * + * ... *)[^10]
02:23 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89␤»
02:23 donri djanatyn: any particular part of it?
02:23 djanatyn donri: I dunno. I think I get it.
02:23 Radvendii what is the [^10] up to 10?
02:23 djanatyn it's just, is there a difference between the * before the "..." and the * after the "..."?
02:24 donri yes and no
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02:24 djanatyn Radvendii: pretty sure it takes the first ten elements and returns them as a new array
02:24 djanatyn since it's an infinite list, it only grabs ten
02:24 donri ^10 is a range of 0 to 9 or 10 not sure
02:24 donri djanatyn: * is "Whatever" and its meaning depends on the context / how/where it is used
02:24 Radvendii that's kind of weird. we already have the .. operator
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02:25 donri Radvendii: it's just a shortcut
02:25 donri for one you get away with less parenthesis
02:25 Radvendii mkay. what about ...? what is tha operator?
02:25 donri forgot what it's called but it's like .. ranges but more magical
02:26 donri ... * means infinite, never-ending range
02:26 Radvendii hahaha
02:26 Radvendii so how is *+*...* evaluated?
02:26 donri 1, 2 ... * means to continue the sequence 1,2...
02:26 Radvendii oh
02:26 Radvendii that's brilliant
02:26 donri *+* is plus as a function
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02:27 Radvendii and it just knows that by * we mean the last element?
02:27 donri 1, 2, some-function ... * uses the previous items in the sequence as arguments to some-function and the result is the next item
02:27 donri based on the arity of the function
02:27 Radvendii ah. so it's a very specific notation
02:28 djanatyn that seems very magical >_>
02:28 donri it's multiple notations working together
02:28 djanatyn i guess not when you think about it. I didn't really get it before
02:28 donri rakudo: (* + 2)(3)
02:28 p6eval rakudo fdba16:  ( no output )
02:28 donri rakudo: (* + 2)(3).say
02:28 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«5␤»
02:28 donri if you use an operator on "Whatever" it produces a function that takes that place as an argument
02:29 donri so (* + 2) is the same as -> $x { $x + 2 }
02:29 Radvendii but 1, 2, (sub) ... * is very specific
02:29 donri (* + *) is the same as -> $x, $y { $x + $y }
02:29 donri Radvendii: how do you mean?
02:30 Radvendii what if i did 1, 2, *+*, 4, 5, *+*, ... *?
02:30 Radvendii what would it do?
02:30 djanatyn donri: ...is that kind of like haskell partial function application?
02:30 djanatyn like...in a weird twisted list sort of way?
02:30 djanatyn except
02:30 donri rakudo: say (1, 2, *+* ... *<100)
02:30 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1␤»
02:30 djanatyn never mind, then, I guess not
02:30 donri rakudo: say ~(1, 2, *+* ... *<100)
02:30 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1␤»
02:30 donri mhm
02:31 djanatyn (...) reminds me of (loop) in common lisp
02:31 djanatyn donri: wait, it is?
02:31 sorear djanatyn: in a weird twisted way, yes
02:31 donri djanatyn: kinda yes
02:31 Radvendii i guess my question is this: what does putting a lambda in a list do?
02:31 djanatyn Yeah, I think you get what i mean.
02:31 sorear it's just an object, it gets put in the list
02:31 Radvendii but when you apply "say" to it, it evaluates?
02:31 djanatyn Is there a perl debugger so I could step through that expression or somethig?
02:32 djanatyn okay.
02:32 djanatyn well. I think I've got this now :D
02:32 donri rakudo: say ~(1, 2, *+* ... *>100)
02:32 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144␤»
02:32 djanatyn > say ~(1, 1, &[+] ... *)[^10]
02:32 donri instead of * for infinite you can also have a function that tells the end
02:32 djanatyn rakudo: say ~(1, 1, &[+] ... *)[^10]
02:32 donri *>100 is the predicate for "is more than 100"
02:32 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55␤»
02:33 djanatyn rakudo: say ~(1,1 ... *)[^10]
02:33 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1␤»
02:33 djanatyn ...oh! okay, got it
02:33 djanatyn so where should I put this test case, and more importantly, what kind of test case should I write?
02:34 donri from what i understood what you're really testing is &[+] as *+*
02:34 djanatyn ...actually, I should figure that out myself
02:34 donri i've never seen that syntax though so i can't really help
02:34 djanatyn yeah, that's what I'm testing
02:34 djanatyn it is the same
02:34 donri I only know it to be &infix:<+>
02:34 Radvendii rakudo: say ~(*+* ... *)[^10]
02:34 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 2␤  in whatevercode <anon> at /tmp/NqC40TOaKh:1␤  in sub coro at src/gen/CORE.setting:4423␤  in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:4398␤  in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:4183␤  in method reify at…
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02:35 donri perl6: say (&[+]).WHAT
02:35 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared name:â�¤ '[+]' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 880 (die @ 2) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1139 (P6.comp_unit @ 32) â�¤  at /home/p6ev…
02:35 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "[+])."␤    expecting "::"␤    at /tmp/cOXelIqpdh line 1, column 7␤»
02:35 p6eval ..rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«Sub()␤»
02:35 donri looks like it does work in rakudo?
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02:35 djanatyn ~(1, 2, &[+] ... *)[^10] == ~(1,2, *+* ... *)[^10] # I'm testing to make sure this is true
02:35 djanatyn donri: yeah, the bug got fixed
02:36 djanatyn ...but then it says "my $foo = &prefix:<!>;say $foo.signature;"
02:36 djanatyn that's just confusing - what does that have to do with this bug?
02:36 Radvendii rakudo: say ~(1, 1*+* ... *)[^10]
02:36 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1␤»
02:36 djanatyn I should look at another bug report and the tests submitted
02:36 Radvendii rakudo: say ~(1, 1, *+* ... *)[^10]
02:36 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55␤»
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02:37 donri rakudo: &[+] === &infix:<+>
02:37 p6eval rakudo fdba16:  ( no output )
02:37 donri rakudo: say (&[+] === &infix:<+>)
02:37 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
02:37 donri djanatyn: all you need should be: ok (&[+] === &infix:<+>)
02:37 Radvendii i dont understand. when you evaluate a lambda in a list, it takes the previous elements and uses them as arguments?
02:39 Radvendii is that right?
02:40 donri Radvendii: well it's particular to ..., not lists
02:41 Radvendii so what is the overarching rule?
02:41 donri http://perl6advent.wordpress.com/​2010/12/04/the-sequence-operator/
02:43 donri sleepy time for me
02:43 donri the rule is very liberal as all things perl
02:44 donri there's no single one way to use "..."
02:44 donri hope the link helps, gotta sleep
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02:48 Radvendii ... is briliant
02:48 Radvendii thanks!
02:57 colomon jnthn: no idea why round hangs.  I barely had time to report the bug someone else found.  :)
03:12 sorear I blame multiple dispatch
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03:39 djanatyn moritz / tadzik: *poke*
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03:46 sjn Question... Are there any good grammar tutorials online atm?
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04:16 djanatyn /home/djanatyn/roast/S03-sequence/basic.rakudo .. ok
04:16 djanatyn All tests successful.
04:17 djanatyn \o/
04:18 djanatyn okay, I'm almost certain this won't be accepted, but I'm going to submit it anyway, because it's at the very least progress!
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04:37 djanatyn https://github.com/perl6/roast/pull/9
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06:13 Woodi hallo today
06:14 Woodi how to write class with fields not available for methods in that class except that field accesor ?
06:14 sorear You can't, sorry.
06:24 Woodi in Perl5 there was a way - using clousures
06:25 Woodi k, I will test clousures in v6
06:28 sorear uhm
06:28 sorear I do not think I understand you
06:29 sorear tadzik: ping
06:30 moritz djanatyn: *backpoke*
06:32 moritz sjn: "Using Perl 6" has an introduction to regexes and grammars
06:32 dalek roast: 5d94616 | Jonathan++ | S03-sequence/basic.t:
06:32 dalek roast: RT #76046: &[+] in infix:<...>
06:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5d94616007
06:32 dalek roast: fcb6304 | moritz++ | S03-sequence/basic.t:
06:32 dalek roast: Merge pull request #9 from djanatyn/master
06:32 dalek roast:
06:32 dalek roast: GCI - RT #76046
06:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fcb6304856
06:33 moritz djanatyn++
06:33 aloha Karma for djanatyn is now 7
06:35 dalek book: 84489ff | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
06:35 dalek book: fix a thinko and a grammaro, Entonian++
06:35 dalek book: review: https://github.com/perl6/book/commit/84489ffedc
06:40 moritz mberends++ # advent post
06:40 aloha Karma for mberends is now 159
06:41 mberends \o/ gm moritz
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07:16 tadzik sorear: pong
07:16 tadzik djanatyn: pong
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07:41 * moritz just had a small relevation
07:42 moritz you know, method lookup and sub lookup are similar, excpt that sub lookup consults the outer lexpads, and method lookup the "outer" classes (ie the ones we inherit from)
07:43 moritz and in this picture, role application is just like importing subs into a lexical scope
07:54 awwaiid or a lookup overlay
07:55 awwaiid er, yeah I see what you mean. scopes overlay scopes
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08:15 odoacre what was the name of that cool program that was like grep -r but had syntax hilighting and skipped over SCM files ?
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08:21 moritz odoacre: ack
08:21 moritz https://gist.github.com/1434231
08:21 odoacre moritz: right, thanks
08:21 moritz erm, wrong paste
08:22 moritz http://betterthangrep.com/
08:22 odoacre yeah i have it i just could not remember the name
08:31 moritz nom: say 123.round
08:31 p6eval nom fdba16: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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08:47 moritz I'm fixing the rounders now
08:48 jnthn moritz: great, thanks :)
08:48 * jnthn is getting stuff sorted out for Stockholm trip
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08:54 moritz is there a *fast* way to check if a num is one of Inf, -Inf, or NaN?
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09:21 dalek roast: d413b87 | moritz++ | S (2 files):
09:21 dalek roast: rakudo fudges
09:21 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/d413b879c9
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10:30 GlitchMr perl6: print .chr for 0x20..0x7E
10:30 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method chr in class Int␤  at /tmp/sbvxchzAq4 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2224 (ANON @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2225 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤  at /home/p6e…
10:30 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT« !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOP​QRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~»
10:30 GlitchMr :)
10:32 GlitchMr perl6: print 2.2~400
10:32 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«11/5400»
10:32 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«2.2400»
10:41 GlitchMr perl6: print {2+2}.eval.perl # probably invalid, but whatever...
10:41 p6eval rakudo fdba16: OUTPUT«Method 'eval' not found for invocant of class 'Block'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/QQXVbDGWzA:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/QQXVbDGWzA:1␤»
10:41 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«<SubBlock(<anon>)>»
10:41 p6eval ..niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method eval in class Block␤  at /tmp/N3JkUaPwpt line 1 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2224 (ANON @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2225 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤  at /home/…
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11:25 djanatyn moritz: :D
11:25 djanatyn what's my next task?
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11:51 moritz djanatyn: there's another test writing tickets
11:51 moritz djanatyn: search for me as a mentor, shouldn't be too hard to find then
11:52 djanatyn I don't think I can
11:52 djanatyn I can only search by title or organization
11:53 djanatyn ...by the way, are there any tests involving bailador?
11:54 djanatyn I was going to wait a little while before I accepted my next task, as our school is having a programming competition this week I'm participating in.
11:55 djanatyn But, if I could use Bailador in that, I'd love to :)
11:57 moritz djanatyn: we can publish new tasks on Dec 18th, I think
11:57 djanatyn Oh, fun.
11:57 djanatyn Well, it's over on friday ;)
11:58 moritz djanatyn: best contact tadzik about it, he knows bailador much better then me, and he's also a GCI mentor
11:58 djanatyn so I'll accept that new ticket task this weekend, then.
11:59 djanatyn maybe. I might just use Dancer2 or a python web framework, still not sure
11:59 moritz djanatyn: http://www.google-melange.com/gci​/task/view/google/gci2011/7174240
11:59 djanatyn but if bailador is usable and not terribly slow that would be fun
12:00 moritz aye
12:05 jnthn travel to stockholm - probably back this evening &
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12:39 colomon nom: say 23.542323.round
12:39 p6eval nom fdba16: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
12:40 colomon nom: say "hello"
12:40 p6eval nom fdba16: OUTPUT«hello␤»
12:40 colomon nom: say 23.542323.round
12:40 p6eval nom fdba16: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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12:53 moritz erm, did I forget to push?
12:54 dalek rakudo/nom: f5c1975 | moritz++ | / (4 files):
12:54 dalek rakudo/nom: fix rounders
12:54 dalek rakudo/nom:
12:54 dalek rakudo/nom: Does not handle big ints properly, but this is as good as old master ever got
12:54 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f5c197569d
12:55 colomon moritz++
12:55 aloha Karma for moritz is now 2843
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13:02 colomon nom: say 23.542323.round
13:02 p6eval nom fdba16: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
13:04 moritz evalbot rebuild nom
13:04 p6eval OK (started asynchronously)
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13:36 moritz nom: say 23.542323.round
13:36 p6eval nom f5c197: OUTPUT«24␤»
13:40 colomon \o/
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13:54 awwaiid idea: define (at runtime) a new operator, say \\, which takes a list on the left and right, passing the list on the left as STDIN to shell execution to the list on the right, returning a list.
13:54 awwaiid the idea being to add a simple op that would make the REPL good for doing some shell manipulations
13:55 awwaiid hm. but that's not quite right.
13:57 awwaiid I'll noodle
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14:01 tadzik djanatyn: what do you need about bailador?
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14:15 djanatyn tadzik: How...complete is it?
14:15 djanatyn and how fast is it?
14:15 djanatyn and, is it possible to get it running on windows?
14:16 tadzik it's not complete at all :)
14:16 tadzik it should be running on windows just fine, but I can't tell, I have no windows
14:17 djanatyn ah. :)
14:18 djanatyn well, is it possible to hack up a simple little website?
14:18 tadzik Requests per second:    11.97 [#/sec] (mean)
14:19 tadzik not bad for Rakudo :)
14:19 tadzik (that's a hello world app)
14:20 djanatyn okay :)
14:20 djanatyn it seems very minimal. do I need any important modules to install it?
14:20 djanatyn and, if so, how should I go about doing that? with panda?
14:20 tadzik HTTP::Server::Simple
14:20 tadzik panda should be able to install it, but there's no bailador in its DB
14:20 tadzik adding it may be a nice GCI task too
14:21 tadzik oh wait, isn't today a deadline for new projects?
14:21 tadzik oh, nope, 16th
14:21 djanatyn the deadline is december 18th, I think
14:22 PerlJam I thought it was the 16th
14:22 djanatyn oh, 16th, then :)
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14:33 * [Coke] yawns over coffee.
14:34 flussence Tests=20054
14:34 flussence wow
14:36 tadzik yeah, superawesome
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15:30 colomon \o/
15:36 dalek rakudo/nom: e1cd4c5 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
15:36 dalek rakudo/nom: track failure modes
15:36 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e1cd4c54fe
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15:50 sorear good * #perl6
15:51 colomon \o
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16:32 [Coke] sorear: ho.
16:34 raiph 'hi','hallo','salut', &greets ... *
16:35 colomon ho.
16:35 colomon ho.
16:35 raiph yesterday's advent cal entry was flipflop
16:36 raiph Gernot Says: Nice, but flipflop operators are not yet implemented in Rakudo Nom :-(
16:36 colomon nom: say 4 ff 5
16:36 p6eval nom e1cd4c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Flip flop operators are not yet implemented at line 1, near " 5"␤»
16:37 colomon niecza: say 4 ff 5
16:37 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«1␤»
16:37 colomon b: say 4 ff 5
16:37 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Flip flip operators are not yet implemented at line 22, near " 5"␤»
16:37 colomon Looks like they are implemented in niecza
16:38 raiph right
16:38 TimToady .oO("How the Irish Saved Civilization")
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16:39 [Coke] not everything is going to be available in every impl. I would recommend somehow tagging the articles to show which perl6 you should be trying these on.
16:40 TimToady .oO(Civilization is unevenly distributed...)
16:40 [Coke] Huh. only one advent post from 2010 made it in as a test?
16:40 [Coke] I thought we did that last year, not 2 years ago. woof.
16:41 raiph I didn't mean to say anything was wrong, or make work
16:45 [Coke] ugh, getting a lot of failures in niecza's spectest.
16:48 [Coke] niecza: (2 + 3i) > (2 + 2i)
16:49 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57:  ( no output )
16:49 [Coke] nom: (2 + 3i) > (2 + 2i)
16:49 p6eval nom e1cd4c: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'Real'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu, Mu %_)␤␤  in method Real at src/gen/CORE.setting:643␤  in sub infix:<>> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2194␤  in sub infix:<>> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2194␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/CP9…
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16:49 [Coke] std: (2 + 3i) > (2 + 2i)
16:49 p6eval std be1f10e: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
16:51 [Coke] sorear: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/issues/78 was accidentally closed. keyboard shortcuts suck if you're not aware you're using them, sorry
16:52 raiph What from a layered architectural pov is the common layers of existing/main P6 impls?
16:52 raiph something like backend, nqp*, grammar, core settings, non-core ?
16:52 [Coke] there are no common layers, I think. the STD grammar is probably the only thing they have in common.
16:52 raiph do impl copy/paste from each other at the higher layers?
16:53 [Coke] parts of the setting are shareable, yes. not sure if anyone IS sharing them.
16:53 raiph could ff from niecza be copied to rakudo, and vice versa?
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16:54 benabik ff might be able to be copied from b
16:54 raiph seems like an ff impl would be all higher level code reusing lower level stuff that might be common across impl
16:54 [Coke] what is the github way to write an issue number? "issue #79" ?
16:55 benabik Either #79 or gh-79
16:55 benabik (IIRC)
16:55 [Coke] raiph: find the ff impl from niecza and see. ;)
16:55 PerlJam raiph: depends on what you mean by "copied"  :-)
16:55 PerlJam raiph: If you're just talking about conceptually, the answer is yes.
16:56 PerlJam raiph: if you mean to cut-n-paste code, that won't work at all
16:57 raiph coke: i'd already taken that on by dint of commenting. ;)
16:57 raiph PerlJam: why not?
16:58 benabik niecza's ff impl is based on niecza's internals.  https://github.com/sorear/niecza/​blob/master/src/Operator.pm6#L136
16:58 benabik Things like ::GLOBAL::NieczaActions.gensym is unlikely to exist in Rakudo.
16:58 PerlJam raiph: as benabik says
16:59 raiph PerlJam: it can't be that way in general, of course, but for higher level stuff, implemented purely in terms of existing stuff, if that existing stuff is common to impls...
16:59 colomon doesn't ff have to be pretty low-level?  it's got per-usage state, that's not normal for operators
16:59 raiph benabik, PerlJam: ok
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16:59 colomon alpha: say 4 ff 5
16:59 p6eval alpha : OUTPUT«Confused at line 10, near "ff 5"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
17:00 colomon pugs: say 4 ff 5
17:00 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&infix:ff"␤    at /tmp/B9D8uwvNdU line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
17:00 benabik b: say 4 ff 5
17:00 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Flip flip operators are not yet implemented at line 22, near " 5"␤»
17:00 benabik I thought ff existed in b.  :-/
17:00 colomon Niecza's the only implementation, it appears.
17:00 PerlJam yep
17:00 [Coke] argh, niecza checks out an unpushable copy of spec.
17:00 raiph colomon: that might not be normal, but, unless an impl makes non-spec assumptions, why would that affect things?
17:01 [Coke] raiph: implementations might cheat for speed, or because they don't implement enough perl6 to not use the lower levels.
17:02 [Coke] so, yes, as said: in theory, that sharing is possible. It just may not be practicable.
17:03 colomon ralph: I don't think you can implement ff in Perl 6 without macros, which no one supports yet.
17:03 raiph coke: right. but by doing that they ultimately slow things down. that's why it makes sense ff is not yet implemented; i'm pretty sure it ought to be done in terms of lower level p6 that should be the same across most p6 impls
17:04 colomon how else do you write a function which behaves different at every point it is called?
17:04 raiph colomon: gotcha.
17:06 raiph colomon: must not only carry state, but state per appearance in code. even generated code.
17:09 [Coke] raiph: how are you sure of this? ;)
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17:10 [Coke] (obviously, having experience with one of the perl 6 implementations would lend some weight to the theory.)
17:10 raiph coke: oops, dropped a must. must remember not to do that
17:11 raiph coke: have a nanonats worth of experience from couple years ago
17:11 raiph *nanognats
17:12 dalek roast: 4b1a35c | coke++ | S32-num/complex.t:
17:12 dalek roast: niecza fudge
17:12 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4b1a35cf4d
17:15 [Coke] ugh. what is the correct way to git remote add a readwrite github so git shuts up when I try to do a rebase?
17:16 [Coke] *github remote
17:16 raiph i thought i saw something about niecza dropping "official" support for mono for now; was that right?
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17:17 [Coke] https://github.com/sorear/niecz​a/blob/master/docs/announce.v12 doesn't seem to agree with that.
17:17 colomon joined #perl6
17:19 raiph coke: i recall some comment since then. will go try find.
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17:19 TimToady sorear++ regularly panics about the CLR startup overhead, and thinks about other backends, but I don't see that mono is going away any time soon, given that it's still the most performant implementation once it gets going
17:19 aloha Karma for sorear is now 2038
17:20 [Coke] (that auto-announce was fixed in #parrot, btw. pinging bacek about this copy of aloha.)
17:21 jasonmay that is a lot of karma
17:21 TimToady well deserved
17:21 jasonmay I also read it as "karma for sorear is the new 2038" at first, with overflow in mind :)
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17:23 colomon [Coke]: unless there's been some sort of change since the last time I looked, (2 + 3i) > (2 + 2i) should not fail, but what it does is not firmly defined (but it should be consistent).
17:24 raiph TimToady: thanks.
17:35 [Coke] colomon: there is a spec test saying it should die.
17:35 colomon [Coke]: how new is it?
17:35 [Coke] so feel free to update the ticket, the spec, the nieczabug, and create a rakudo bug. ;)
17:36 [Coke] colomon: what should it do? it's nonsensical, at best.
17:36 colomon not crash and be consistent
17:37 PerlJam colomon: that's crazy talk!
17:37 [Coke] not crash is axiomatic, yes? or do you mean not throw an exception? (or not fail?)
17:37 [Coke] and if "consistent"... with what?
17:37 colomon consistent with itself
17:38 colomon not throw an exception, or return Fail or something
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17:38 [Coke] ok, it should always return false?
17:38 colomon that's probably less than ideal, but I think it would be legal as I understand the state of things.
17:39 colomon The idea is that we don't want numerical comparison blowing up because a Complex number snuck in.
17:39 [Coke] Anyway, there's a committed test. I'm just trying to clean things up. If you need it cleaner, by all means. ;)
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17:59 tadzik hello
18:07 raiph tadzik: hi
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18:42 colomon do we have any plans for tomorrow's advent calendar?
18:46 PerlJam colomon: I could probably finish my little write-up on Grammar::Profiler
18:46 colomon PerlJam++
18:46 aloha Karma for perljam is now 56
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18:48 tadzik Grammar::Profiler? Wow, looking forward to that
18:48 PerlJam eh, it's not that big of a deal.
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19:56 [Coke] niecza: say ~('foo,bar,baz,' ~~ m/[<alpha>+]+ %  ','/
19:56 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unable to parse parenthesized expression at /tmp/wY1tfiUhoX line 1:â�¤------> [32msay ~([33mâ��[31m'foo,bar,baz,' ~~ m/[<alpha>+]+ %  ','/[0mâ�¤Couldn't find final ')'; gave up at /tmp/wY1tfiUhoX line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32m('fo…
19:56 [Coke] niecza: say 'foo,bar,baz,' ~~ m/[<alpha>+]+ %  ','/
19:56 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(11) text(foo,bar,baz) pos([].list) named({"alpha" => (#<match from(0) to(1) text(f) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(1) to(2) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(2) to(3) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<ma…
19:56 [Coke] niecza: print 'foo,bar,baz,' ~~ m/[<alpha>+]+ %  ','/
19:56 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(11) text(foo,bar,baz) pos([].list) named({"alpha" => (#<match from(0) to(1) text(f) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(1) to(2) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(2) to(3) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<ma…
19:57 [Coke] niecza: say 'foo,bar,baz,' ~~ m/[<alpha>+]+ %%  ','/
19:57 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(11) text(foo,bar,baz) pos([].list) named({"alpha" => (#<match from(0) to(1) text(f) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(1) to(2) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(2) to(3) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<ma…
20:00 dalek roast: 751e709 | coke++ | S05-m (2 files):
20:00 dalek roast: niecza un/fudge
20:00 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/751e709a9e
20:05 jnthn evenin' from Stockholm
20:05 tadzik hello jnthn
20:07 ksi joined #perl6
20:11 jnthn o/ tadzik
20:13 tadzik how are things?
20:14 colomon \o
20:14 jnthn tadzik: Pretty good. My journey here ran very smoothly, I'm enjoying it being properly cold, and this week's course is pretty low stress to deliver.
20:15 jnthn tadzik: How's things there? Keeping busy? ;)
20:17 tadzik like hell
20:17 tadzik project, exam, project, exam, 3 projects, and then finally weekend :)
20:18 tadzik the only joy being 'make spectest' and seeing the numbers grow :)
20:18 jnthn tadzik: Ouch! :/ Good luck with it all.
20:19 tadzik at least I don't get to implement semaphores for Minix :)
20:19 tadzik a friend has it as his OS project for tomorrow, and he just saw that it was a GSoC project in 2009
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21:03 PerlJam someone go look at  http://perl6advent.wordpress.c​om/2011/12/04/grammarprofiler and give me a little feedback and it could tomorrow's post
21:03 PerlJam (you have to be logged in to see it since it's a draft)
21:12 jnthn PerlJam: taking a look while I wait for a compile :)
21:13 jnthn "From the outside looking in, the basic technique is to replace the normal grammar mechanism with a custom grammar that intercepts method lookup"
21:13 jnthn What you're really doing is replacing the normal grammar *meta-object*, which is the thing that defines how grammar packages work.
21:14 jnthn Put another way, it's not so much a custom grammar as a custom implementation of what "grammar" means as a keyword.
21:14 PerlJam aye.  I understand that, I just suck at writing :)
21:14 PerlJam editing now :)
21:14 jnthn "so it looks like I need to add “WHAT” and “perl” to that list of methods to pass through unscathed."
21:15 jnthn Note tht WHAT is a macro, not a method
21:15 jnthn So you don't need to worry about that one.
21:15 PerlJam yeah, I wasn't sure
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: e7e343b | jonathan++ | src/ (4 files):
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: First cut implementation of ff, ^ff, ff^ and ^ff^. Runs at least enough for the advent post.
21:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7e343bd43
21:20 PerlJam jnthn++ nice
21:20 aloha Karma for jnthn is now 2465
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21:20 PerlJam jnthn: re-look at my advent post?
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21:22 PerlJam er, potential post on grammar profiling that is
21:23 jnthn PerlJam: I think you'll win "longest sentence in this year's advent calendar" award, but it's more accurate now :)
21:23 PerlJam heh
21:23 jnthn Note you could do .^name rather than .WHAT.perl by the way :)
21:24 PerlJam d'oh!  I *knew* there was something simple I was forgetting!
21:24 jnthn heh, I forgot on my first read-through :)
21:25 [Coke] niecza: my class Foo { multi method gist(Foo:D:) { "gisted"; } }
21:25 p6eval niecza v12-3-g193ca57: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��In parameter declaration, typename 'Foo:D' must be predeclared (or marked as declarative with :: prefix) at /tmp/NGSE9EFSJ7 line 1:�------> [32mmy class Foo { multi method gist(Foo:D[33m�[31m:) { "gisted"; } }[0m��Parse f…
21:25 [Coke] "niecza can't refer to a class while it's being defined" ?
21:26 PerlJam jnthn: I'll leave it the way it is and you can comment on the post to give the readers something to try  :)
21:30 PerlJam [Coke]: I looks like it's trying to use "Foo:D" as the name instead of just "Foo".  Lookss like niezca buglet to me at the moment.
21:30 PerlJam std: my class Foo { multi method gist(Foo:D:) { "gisted"; } }
21:30 p6eval std be1f10e: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 123m␤»
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21:30 PerlJam rakudo: my class Foo { multi method gist(Foo:D:) { "gisted"; } }
21:30 p6eval rakudo e7e343:  ( no output )
21:31 PerlJam Hmm.  I just scheduled my post to publish on Dec 7 at 0000 and it updated the permalink.  I never noticed that before.
21:32 [Coke] PerlJam++
21:32 aloha Karma for perljam is now 57
21:33 dalek rakudo/nom: f70f20a | jonathan++ | docs/ChangeLog:
21:33 dalek rakudo/nom: Some ChangeLog entries.
21:33 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f70f20abef
21:35 dalek zavolaj: 898c645 | jnthn++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
21:35 dalek zavolaj: Add first cut of version 2 of Zavolaj. Doesn't do any pointer/array stuff just yet; that's coming soon.
21:35 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/898c6457f1
21:35 dalek zavolaj: a7ae5ba | jnthn++ | README:
21:35 dalek zavolaj: Update README a little bit. We need much better docs really.
21:35 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/a7ae5bac6f
21:35 dalek zavolaj: e293ff0 | jnthn++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
21:35 dalek zavolaj: Add CStruct passing support. Improve error message when trying to pass a class or other object not based on CStruct.
21:35 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/e293ff0a05
21:35 dalek zavolaj: d22dd75 | jnthn++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
21:35 dalek zavolaj: Better string support, including multiple encodings.
21:35 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/d22dd75a7f
21:35 dalek zavolaj: 4561a4f | jnthn++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
21:35 dalek zavolaj: Support opaque pointers in NativeCall.
21:35 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/4561a4f4c8
21:35 jnthn Zavolaj's nom update is now in its master branch.
21:36 tadzik \o/
21:36 tadzik does it pass its tests
21:36 tadzik ?
21:36 [Coke] jnthn++
21:36 aloha Karma for jnthn is now 2466
21:37 dalek zavolaj: b082d38 | jonathan++ | examples/win32-api-call.p6:
21:37 dalek zavolaj: Update Win32 API example.
21:37 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/b082d385f8
21:38 jnthn tadzik: I didn't figure out how to even run the tests on Windows yet. :(
21:38 tadzik ah
21:38 tadzik I'll check it out
21:38 jnthn tadzik: nmake test gives me a syntax error in the makefile :(
21:38 PerlJam jnthn: What is the $c parameter in the pblock returned by find_method() in Grammar::Debugger?
21:38 tadzik can you show me?
21:38 [Coke] jnthn: ah, I might be able to help with that if I can stop attending winter concerts.
21:39 tadzik I don't have to work hard on me birthday :P
21:39 jnthn tadzik: show you the error?
21:39 [Coke] tadzik++ # old fart
21:39 aloha Karma for tadzik is now 841
21:39 jnthn tadzik: makefile(14) : fatal error U1000: syntax error : ')' missing in macro invocation
21:40 jnthn PerlJam: short for $cursor"
21:40 PerlJam gotcha.
21:41 jnthn PerlJam: Though I'm not sure right now why we actually pull it out explicitly from the rest of the args.
21:41 tadzik jnthn: long-ish paste: https://gist.github.com/1440125
21:41 tadzik [Coke]: thanks :)
21:42 jnthn tadzik: Seems the tests will want some updating... :)
21:42 jnthn tadzik: oh, I see what's up
21:43 jnthn tadzik: I'm guessing you used to be able to do "is native()" in order to load from the current executable
21:43 jnthn tadzik: Apart from I'm not especially sure that trick actually works on Windows...
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21:47 dalek zavolaj: b0bedfa | jonathan++ | TODO:
21:47 dalek zavolaj: The things that used to be in the TODO are now possible. Add a bunch of other things that do, however, need doing.
21:47 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/b0bedfa747
21:48 dalek mu: 12c29dc | duff++ | misc/perl6advent-2011/ (2 files):
21:48 dalek mu: [p6advent] "officially" claim Dec 7 :)
21:48 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/12c29dcc37
21:49 dalek roast: 36085c3 | coke++ | S04-statements/for.t:
21:49 dalek roast: niecza fudge
21:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/36085c33f9
21:50 dalek niecza: 8c09133 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
21:50 dalek niecza: remove dead spectest file, skip broken one
21:50 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8c09133116
21:51 [Coke] phenny: tell sorear that "make spectest" should be green again; all failures that were blocking it now have tickets.
21:51 phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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22:16 jnthn early night &
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