Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2011-12-20

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 diakopter colomon: teehee sexpexted
00:09 ispeak joined #perl6
00:11 replore joined #perl6
00:21 Radvendii nom: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {$_++}
00:21 p6eval nom 1eadbb:  ( no output )
00:21 Radvendii b: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {$_++}
00:22 p6eval b 1b7dd1:  ( no output )
00:22 * araujo wonders what it is the status of the current available perl6 implementations
00:22 Radvendii b: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {say ++$_}
00:22 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«2␤3␤4␤»
00:22 Radvendii nom: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {say ++$_}
00:22 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«2␤3␤4␤»
00:23 Radvendii nom: my @a=rand(),rand(),rand(); for @a {say ++$_}
00:23 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«1.26594015590763␤1.882​94592625195␤1.3494678012013␤»
00:23 diakopter nom: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {++$_}; say @a;
00:23 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«2 3 4␤»
00:24 diakopter wheh
00:24 diakopter I must have a profound misassumption about how for @a works
00:25 diakopter $_ points to the slot?!
00:25 Radvendii $_ points to the element of the array
00:25 Radvendii what is the speed of perl compared to C?
00:26 Radvendii does mutable arrays slow it down significantly?
00:27 diakopter $_ pointing to the slot is ... very strange.
00:27 diakopter how have I missed this up until now
00:27 Radvendii why?
00:29 diakopter nom: my @a=1,2,3; for @a {$_ = "a"}; say @a;
00:29 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«a a a␤»
00:29 diakopter that is very unexpected to me.  I'm sorry.
00:29 * geekosaur thought that was expected
00:29 Radvendii uh... yeah
00:30 Radvendii what did you expect?
00:30 geekosaur (and it is certainly very Perl)
00:30 diakopter I thought $_ pointed to the object, the array element, not the container that holds the object.
00:30 Radvendii what?
00:30 diakopter what what?
00:31 diakopter like I said, I'm sorry for expecting the wrong thing.
00:32 Radvendii no no, it's fine, i just dont understand what you *were* expecting
00:33 diakopter I was expecting it to behave like every other iterator in every other language I've used.
00:34 geekosaur this is longstanding perl behavior, back to at least sometime in the 3.x series; iterators actually allow you to mutate the thing iterated over
00:37 diakopter somehow I have missed this.
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00:53 Juerd What's mono doing on feather, besides causing high loads?
00:53 colomon running niecza?
00:53 xaka joined #perl6
00:54 Radvendii is perl6 slower than perl5?
00:54 Juerd [Coke]: Could you nice(1) the mono processes, please, and perhaps figure out something to moderate their memory usage?
00:54 Radvendii in general?
00:54 Juerd Radvendii: Perl 6 is a language, not a program, so that question can't really be answered.
00:55 diakopter yes, in general the implementations are much slower.
00:55 Juerd Currently, implementations of Perl 6 are typically slower than Perl 5, but this is expected to change.
00:55 Radvendii oh i see, it's a matter of the implementations, rather than the specifications
00:55 Radvendii that makes sense
00:55 diakopter who expects the implementations to improve dramatically? I don't know of anyone.
00:56 Juerd diakopter: You don't know me? :(
00:56 Juerd Radvendii: Of course, if you meant to refer to the languages, then I'd say Perl 6 is much faster because it has so many useful features built-in that Perl 5 doesn't, many of which will save the programmer a lot of time.
00:57 Radvendii i'm not talking about programmer time, i meant compile/run time
00:57 diakopter obviously :)
00:57 Juerd diakopter: I seriously expect nothing less than dramatic performance improvements from several implementations.
00:58 Juerd Perhaps not this year, but in 2012 and subsequent years, I'm convinced it'll be sped up by staggering ratios.
00:58 diakopter afaik, sorear doesn't expect dramatic improvements from niecza unless it's ported/rewritten in another environment, and same for jnthn/pmichaud.
01:00 Juerd It'll happen, one way or another, and not just because computers themselves are getting faster :)
01:01 diakopter unless I was working on it myself, I wouldn't have such an expectation.
01:01 diakopter unless of course someone actually said it.
01:01 diakopter 18:32 < Radvendii> no no, it's fine, i just dont understand what you *were* expecting
01:01 diakopter ack mispaste
01:01 Juerd I don't know exactly how and when, but I know why: it's necessary to have something fast, or a lot of work will have been a huge waste of energy...
01:02 diakopter of course that's the desire, but there is a vast dearth of resources available to work on it.
01:03 diakopter and apparently always will be
01:04 Juerd Just means that the work will either take longer, or die off prematurely.
01:05 Radvendii is larry involved in the coding much?
01:05 diakopter intentionally not, except for the standard grammar
01:06 Juerd I'm off to bed. Good night :)
01:06 raiph joined #perl6
01:06 Radvendii good night
01:06 raiph \o radvendii
01:06 Radvendii \o?
01:06 diakopter raiph is waving goodbye to you
01:07 diakopter not understanding that you were talking to Juerd
01:07 raiph diakopter: i believe jnthn expects rakudo to get way faster
01:07 Radvendii oh
01:07 raiph oops, goodnight juerd, hello radvendii
01:08 Radvendii haha
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01:08 Radvendii what was C written in?
01:08 raiph c
01:09 diakopter <eye roll>
01:09 franek joined #perl6
01:09 Radvendii seriously though...
01:09 flussence B
01:10 flussence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCPL
01:10 Radvendii oh... thats right! didn't B never actually come out because C came out first?
01:14 raiph diakopter: sorry. wikipedia says "assembly language".
01:14 diakopter http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/dmr/chist.html
01:14 lestrrat joined #perl6
01:15 raiph wikipedia claims b did come out. i know bcpl did, because i spent 3 years writing in it.
01:15 packetknife joined #perl6
01:16 raiph 1985-87. no types, and only assembly level debugger. shudder.
01:17 geekosaur ...and now you also know the early history of C.  and why in K&R C types were largely optional (defaulting to int)
01:18 fieldsa joined #perl6
01:22 fieldsa I seek run() shell cmd in bg w/o wait, is a way from qx// directly?  I attempt run("$cmd &"), but it waits on child.
01:23 fieldsa I do not need to capture or send input via socketpair.  I also notice there is no fork?
01:26 sorear Juerd: was niecza causing a problem?
01:26 colomon joined #perl6
01:26 diakopter Juerd went to bed
01:27 xjiujiu joined #perl6
01:27 diakopter colomon: I was giggling at your sexpexted
01:27 sorear o/ colomon
01:27 colomon o/
01:27 sorear diakopter: that was mine
01:27 colomon diakopter: it was sorear's actually
01:28 diakopter what's a sexpex
01:28 colomon I was giggling at it too, actually.  :)
01:28 sorear stringified_expected
01:28 diakopter oh, you typoed x for c then :P
01:28 sorear really is() should be using eqv
01:28 colomon that typo might have been me
01:30 colomon sorear: I take it you're working on getting things like \c[ARABIC NUMBER SIGN] working?
01:30 sorear colomon: yes
01:31 * colomon is drooling at the prospect of getting all those S05-mass tests running
01:31 * sorear fetches a towel
01:33 xjiujiu joined #perl6
01:35 fieldsa pugs apparently has &fork(), but rakudo doesn't?
01:36 fieldsa I don't want to rush them along, but I would consider fork() fairly good feature to have, perhaps it is in the pipeline, so to speak?
01:36 sorear eh.  rakudo is rather chained by portability
01:36 sorear also, we don't say "them" here
01:37 shinobicl_ joined #perl6
01:37 sorear I'm suprised run("$cmd &") doesn't work for you.  that's what I would have tried
01:39 envi_ joined #perl6
01:41 dalek roast: 9fa9559 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S02-names-vars/names.t:
01:41 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
01:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9fa95592e4
01:42 sorear rakudo: say "\c[NO SUCH CHARACTER]"
01:42 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name NO SUCH CHARACTER at line 1, near "]\""␤»
01:45 fieldsa sorear: running strace, seems there is a wait4() - perhaps has to do w/ my config
01:45 dalek niecza: d9f1c7b | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
01:45 dalek niecza: Add name->character inverse mapping support
01:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/d9f1c7b561
01:54 dalek niecza: 8c76823 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
01:54 dalek niecza: Turn on S02-names-vars/names.t.
01:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/8c768239a1
01:55 alvis joined #perl6
01:57 sorear I guess Phase 2 can be started now. :>
01:57 colomon btw, I find it interesting how many times niecza and rakudo are both fudging the same tests
01:57 alc joined #perl6
01:58 fieldsa run("$cmd &") gets stopped on waitpid(-1,) even though the child is already fork(), certainly I'll investigate further
01:58 colomon sorear: "Action method charname not yet implemented"?
01:59 sorear colomon: that's part of phase 2
01:59 colomon ah
01:59 sorear so far I've been working at the Niecza::UCD level
02:00 sorear now I need to 1. add unidata to the repository/build system 2. link stuff into the compiler
02:02 * sorear wonders how best to note the origins of the 400kb binary file ey is about to check in
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02:17 dalek niecza: e0d294d | sorear++ | / (3 files):
02:17 dalek niecza: Embed unidata into Kernel.dll, check in a working quasi-finalized version
02:17 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e0d294d7f9
02:17 sorear now, it will be possible to "use Niecza::UCD" out of the box
02:18 sorear rakudo: say "SS" ~~ /:i ß/
02:18 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
02:19 sorear rakudo: say "ß" ~~ /:i SS/
02:19 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
02:19 sorear rakudo: say "SSß" ~~ /:i ßSS/
02:19 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«#<failed match>␤»
02:19 sorear b: say "SSß" ~~ /:i ßSS/
02:19 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«␤»
02:19 sorear b: say $( "SSß" ~~ /:i ßSS/ )
02:19 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«␤»
02:19 sorear b: say ?( "SSß" ~~ /:i ßSS/ )
02:19 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
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02:46 Radvendii joined #perl6
02:46 xaka joined #perl6
02:52 sorear o/ Radvendii
02:56 Radvendii hey
02:56 Radvendii whats up?
02:57 Radvendi1 joined #perl6
02:58 Radvendii joined #perl6
02:59 xjiujiu joined #perl6
02:59 Radvendii joined #perl6
02:59 sorear Radvendii: was trying to greet you, although you seem to be having connection troubles
03:00 Radvendii no... i'm trying to figure out how to remove automatic connections from irssi
03:00 Radvendii :P
03:00 Radvendii hey
03:00 sorear I usually do that by /quitting and deleting stuff from .irssi/config
03:00 sorear there's probably a more elegant way :D
03:01 Radvendii yeah, you're not supposed to mess with that file
03:01 Radvendii i think i will anyways though...
03:01 Radvendii yay tabbed terminals!
03:01 Radvendii (i dont even have to /quit
03:01 Radvendii anwyays, how is life going for you?
03:03 Radvendii brb
03:03 Radvendi1 joined #perl6
03:03 Radvendi1 it works :D
03:04 Radvendi1 does panda work with niecza?
03:05 sorear very doubtful
03:06 sorear (my life) classes are over for the year; I'm madly hacking in an attempt to drown out the existential angst
03:07 Radvendi1 sweet
03:07 Radvendi1 :P
03:07 Radvendi1 can i help?
03:07 sorear with what?
03:07 Radvendi1 "madly hacking"
03:07 Radvendi1 namely, niecza?
03:07 sorear yes, niecza.
03:08 Radvendi1 (does it work on mac, by the way)?
03:08 sorear niecza: use Niecza::UCD
03:08 p6eval niecza v12-82-g8c76823: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
03:08 sorear Radvendi1: yes it does
03:08 Radvendi1 sweet
03:11 sorear I'm sure you can help
03:13 Radvendi1 damnit. irssi got my username wrong again!
03:14 Radvendi1 what is *wrong* with it
03:16 sorear at the instant you logged in, Radvendii was taken
03:16 sorear try: /nick Radvendii
03:16 Radvendi1 it says "Nick Radvendii already in use"
03:16 Radvendi1 im going to restart irssi...
03:16 Radvendi1 brb
03:17 Radvendi1 joined #perl6
03:17 Radvendi1 there we go
03:17 sorear Radvendi1: it's not irssi's fault that it can't use Radvendii
03:17 Radvendi1 no
03:17 Radvendi1 wtf??
03:17 sorear Radvendi1: STOP
03:17 sorear Radvendi1: you have two irc clients open
03:17 Radvendi1 i do?
03:17 sorear yes
03:17 sorear /whois Radvendi1
03:17 sorear it's a current connection from your computer.
03:18 sorear /whois Radvendii
03:18 sorear and Radvendii even responds to pings, so it's not a ghost conn
03:19 Radvendii joined #perl6
03:19 Radvendi1 left #perl6
03:19 Radvendii yay
03:19 sorear Radvendii: could you nopaste your .irssi/config?
03:19 Radvendii nopaste?
03:20 sorear we need a better verb
03:20 sorear put it on a pastebin somewhere so I can point out the mistake
03:22 Radvendii gah! i used to be able to do it in github. now that i have an account, i cant figure out how!
03:23 Radvendii i think i may have solved it...
03:23 Radvendii let me try again
03:23 Radvendi1 joined #perl6
03:23 colomon 'night, all.
03:23 Radvendi1 nope
03:24 Radvendi1 good night
03:24 Radvendi1 but now it's happening to all of my channels...
03:24 sorear Radvendi1: install App::Nopaste and run nopaste -x ~/.irssi/config
03:24 sorear cpanm -Si App::Nopaste
03:26 sorear hey, Radvendi1, how good are you with written Hebrew?
03:26 Radvendi1 uh...
03:26 Radvendi1 i'm better reading than writing
03:27 Radvendi1 i'm better understanding spoken though...
03:27 Radvendi1 why?
03:27 sorear perl 6 i18n support; I want to know who I can direct questions to
03:28 Radvendi1 i dont see how that has to do with hebrew...
03:28 sorear it's a language with a peculiar orthography
03:29 sorear like if I have questions about ß, I go to moritz
03:29 Radvendi1 oh
03:29 Radvendi1 i could probably help on that...
03:30 Radvendi1 i could ask other members of my family if i didnt know, too
03:30 Radvendi1 is nopaste a bash command or run from perl?
03:32 Radvendi1 brb
03:32 Radvendii joined #perl6
03:33 Radvendii win :D
03:33 Radvendii it worked
03:33 sorear \o/
03:33 sorear nopaste is a shell command, yes
03:33 Radvendii then how do i install it with cpan? doesn't that do perl modules?
03:33 sorear it's a Perl module that comes with a shell command
03:33 Radvendii GAH! So many dependencies!
03:34 sorear 1. use cpanm
03:34 sorear 2. you need those depenedencies anyway
03:34 Radvendii and now it's telling me i dont have YAML installed! i specifically installed it to get rid of those errors
03:34 Radvendii or warnings, as they may be
03:37 Radvendii is there no ./config(ure)(.PL) for niecza?
03:39 sorear correct
03:39 Radvendii make is giving me an error
03:39 sorear what kind of error
03:40 * sorear guesses: mono: command not found
03:40 Radvendii wget --no-check-certificate -Oboot/niecza.zip $(cat FETCH_URL)
03:40 Radvendii wget: unrecognized option '--no-check-certificate'
03:40 Radvendii Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]...
03:40 Radvendii Try `wget --help' for more options.
03:40 Radvendii gnumake: *** [.fetch-stamp] Error 2
03:40 Radvendii nope
03:40 sorear wow
03:40 sorear what version of wget do you have?
03:40 sorear try removing the offending option
03:40 Radvendii 1.13
03:41 sorear wget -V | grep https ?
03:41 Radvendii why is vim making a ding noise every time i quit out!! grr....
03:41 Psyche^ joined #perl6
03:41 Radvendii why the capital v? just to be not standard?
03:42 Radvendii +digest -https +ipv6 -iri +large-file -nls -ntlm +opie -ssl
03:42 Radvendii do i have to recompile wget?!
03:42 sorear nah, that *is* standard
03:42 Radvendii i've always seen lowercase
03:43 sorear -V is short for --version
03:43 Radvendii i know
03:43 sorear -v is short for --verbose
03:43 Radvendii oh
03:43 Radvendii right
03:43 Radvendii i did know that
03:43 Radvendii back to the point, i dont have https compiled in, do i have to recompile it?
03:45 sorear no, you should be able to work around it somehow.
03:45 sorear some ideas:
03:45 Radvendii is it better(easier) to just recompile it? :P
03:45 sorear - removing the s from FETCH_URL might work
03:45 sorear I've never tried to recompile wget on Mac OS X
03:46 sorear - or download manually and then fake the Makefile directions
03:46 Radvendii i think i had to do it a while ago...
03:46 Radvendii why dont they compile with these things by default?
03:46 Radvendii ugh
03:46 sorear You're the first person I've heard to have this problem.
03:47 Radvendii great.
03:47 sorear You're not the first OSX user I've had.
03:47 sorear You have an exceptionally old/new/weird OSX, I'm afraid
03:48 Radvendii ugh.
03:48 Radvendii can i wget wget?
03:48 Radvendii :P
03:49 Radvendii yeah, i definetily had to install wget
03:49 Radvendii my mac didnt come with it
03:49 benabik OS X comes with curl instead of wget
03:49 Radvendii ah
03:50 sorear Niecza OSX folks!  What did y'all do to make the wget call work?
03:50 Radvendii you know... inevitably this install of nopaste is going to end in some minor error
03:50 benabik I recommend homebrew
03:50 Radvendii and then i'm going to cry
03:50 Radvendii homebrew?
03:50 sorear Radvendii: I supposed your Perl install is so virgin it doesn't even have Moose yet?
03:51 benabik http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
03:51 Radvendii sorear: i have no idea. i just install things on a need basis. but *so* often it just doesnt work. like with SDL.
03:51 Radvendii i dont remember if i got SDL working in the end
03:51 benabik It's a way to install utilities.
03:52 Radvendii benabik: are you kidding me? another macports?
03:52 benabik Radvendii: I've been through macports and fink, and homebrew has been the least painful option.
03:52 Radvendii does it let you add options to the install?
03:54 benabik It does allow formula to define options.
03:54 Radvendii :O nopaste... it just... worked...
03:54 Radvendii im blown away
03:55 Radvendii now to see if i can actually use it...
03:55 Radvendii what did you say to use? cpanm?
03:55 dalek niecza: 8533895 | sorear++ | / (4 files):
03:55 dalek niecza: Add <:Foo>, <:gc(/L/)> syntax.
03:55 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/853389549d
03:55 sorear I wanted you to use cpanm to *install* nopaste
03:56 sorear it's a smaller faster and less breakable version of the 'cpan' instlaler
03:56 sorear now: nopaste ~/.irssi/config
03:56 Radvendii what?
03:56 Radvendii so i shouldnt be using cpan period?
03:57 sorear I don't think you should.
03:57 Radvendii sweet, so nopaste worked (i already solved the problem though
03:57 Radvendii i dont have cpanm...
03:58 Radvendii should i cpan cpanm?
03:58 Radvendii or maybe macports?
03:58 Radvendii or homebrew?
03:58 Radvendii or wget
03:58 Radvendii gah!!!
03:58 Radvendii :P
03:58 benabik cpanm is a CPAN module, I think.  :-D
03:58 sorear cpan -i App::cpanminus or http://cpanmin.us/
03:58 Radvendii speaking of which, homebrew is not installing
03:59 xjiujiu joined #perl6
03:59 Radvendii share/man/: Cannot extract through symlink share
03:59 Radvendii share/man/man1/: Cannot extract through symlink share
03:59 Radvendii share/man/man1/brew.1: Cannot extract through symlink share
03:59 Radvendii tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors.
03:59 Radvendii Failed during: /bin/bash -o pipefail -c '/usr/bin/curl -skSfL https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/tarball/master | /usr/bin/tar xz -m --strip 1'
03:59 benabik Radvendii: If you already have macports, I probably wouldn't bother with homebrew unless you want to switch.
04:00 s1n joined #perl6
04:00 Radvendii well, it's always another thing to try if there isn't a macport available
04:00 Radvendii ...
04:02 xjiujiu joined #perl6
04:03 Radvendii except that it's not working...
04:04 Radvendii GAH
04:04 Radvendii now port selfupdate isn't working!!
04:04 Radvendii no, i think i got it by adding sudo :P
04:04 Radvendii good old sudo :-D
04:11 Radvendii wow. i just freed about 48 gb of my hard drive space from emptying my trash
04:14 sorear perl6: say "foo2bar" ~~ /<:gc(/N/)>/
04:14 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 1, near "(/N/)>/"␤»
04:14 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "N"␤    expecting term postfix, operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/i3SpiaXKvp line 1, column 25␤»
04:14 p6eval ..niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«#<match from(3) to(4) text(2) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
04:14 sorear er?  I thought rakudo added that already
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04:31 sorear niecza: say (2**256)- + ~(2**256)
04:31 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«0␤»
04:31 sorear niecza: say (3**256)- + ~(3**256)
04:31 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«0␤»
04:32 sorear niecza: say ~(3**64)
04:32 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«3433683820292512484657849089281␤»
04:32 sorear niecza: say +~(3**64)
04:32 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«3.43368382029251E+30␤»
04:35 sorear niecza: say ~(3**64+1)
04:35 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«3433683820292512484657849089282␤»
04:36 sorear at least one direction is lossless
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06:00 dalek niecza: 0030424 | sorear++ | test.pl:
06:00 dalek niecza: Fix some tests that didn't like the is change
06:00 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0030424905
06:00 dalek niecza: 0a6396e | sorear++ | / (3 files):
06:00 dalek niecza: Refactor number handling in the parser and add \c
06:00 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0a6396e5d3
06:00 sorear perl6: say "foo2bar" ~~ /<:gc(/N/)>/
06:00 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤regex assertion not terminated by angle bracket at line 1, near "(/N/)>/"␤»
06:00 p6eval ..niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«#<match from(3) to(4) text(2) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
06:00 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "N"␤    expecting term postfix, operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/QaEgCdW6zi line 1, column 25␤»
06:01 sorear niecza: use Unicode::UCD; say value("na", "\x3BB")
06:01 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to locate module Unicode::UCD in @path␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 880 (die @ 2) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaPathSearch.pm6 line 23 (NieczaPathSearch.load_module @ 11) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/sr…
06:01 sorear niecza: use Niecza::UCD; say value("na", "\x3BB")
06:01 p6eval niecza v12-84-g8533895: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Q:CgOp not allowed in safe mode at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/Niecza/UCD.pm6 line 4:�------> [32m { (ucd_get_ranges {$table} {$matcher}) [33m�[31m}[0m��Q:CgOp not allowed in safe mode at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/Niecza/UCD.p…
06:05 sorear moritz: Helmut W. returned my mail
06:17 moritz sorear: "returned" as in "delivery failed"?
06:17 phenny moritz: 19 Dec 21:48Z <diakopter> tell moritz typo in your last spec commit
06:17 * moritz tries to sleep again
06:18 sorear moritz: no, a human replied.
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06:18 * sorear will probably have to memorize what the W. stands for eventually
06:40 dalek niecza: 78dbb2f | sorear++ | src/ (2 files):
06:41 dalek niecza: Remove unneeded [0]s
06:41 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/78dbb2fa88
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07:10 dalek niecza: 746a6bc | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
07:10 dalek niecza: Mergeback
07:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/746a6bcb60
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07:31 sorear hmm, niecza's parser has gotten a lot slower and it's not clear why
07:31 sorear just took 1:50 to compile STD.pm6 instead of the usual 0:50
07:31 sorear I need to investigate later
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07:37 * sorear -> sleep
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11:47 cedric Hello #perl6
11:51 cedric Is there someone that could help me on regex modifiers?
12:04 cedric phenny, tell moritz S05:623 explains how to apply the :pos modifier to m//-like calls, how can one do the same with a call to a subrule within a grammar?
12:04 phenny cedric: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
12:05 cedric std: rx:pos(3) /hello/
12:05 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
12:06 cedric phenny, tell moritz viv and std don't complain when a "call-modifier" (like :pos) is applied to a definition.  This is unexpected according to S05:657.
12:06 phenny cedric: I'll pass that on when moritz is around.
12:09 lumi___ phenny: tell sorear I'm a native Hebrew speaker and reader, ask me anything
12:09 phenny lumi___: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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12:22 dalek mu: 1e13cf9 | util++ | misc/perl6advent-2011/schedule:
12:22 dalek mu: [advent] Claim 23rd.
12:22 dalek mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/1e13cf972e
12:38 colomon phenny: tell sorear My wget appears to come from macports
12:38 phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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13:32 [Coke] Juerd: I typically do run things under "nice". I'll try to be more careful in the future. (and I'll see about the memory limiting also.)
13:32 [Coke] Juerd: sorry about that.
13:33 Juerd [Coke]: Shit happens and is allowed to happen on a dev box :)
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13:33 Juerd Just not repeatedly :P
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13:49 [Coke] yah, my normal "spectest run" is under nice -20 for rakudo & niecza.
13:49 [Coke] (if i run "make spectest" by itself, that's not.)
13:49 [Coke] I should just nice my entire shell, honestly. ;)
13:50 Juerd The memory usage is a somewhat greater issue
13:50 Juerd I took away a lot of RAM from feather1 because it wasn't needed anymore, and we needed some elsewhere
13:51 [Coke] ok. and that I don't normally do anything with. I can fix that.
13:51 Juerd It only has 1200 MB left
13:51 Juerd So if a process starts to use 1500 MB, it'll start swapping.
13:51 Juerd Well, way before that of course
13:52 [Coke] I personally don't mind if I'm swapping, but can see where it would impact others. ;)
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14:03 [Coke] Juerd: ok, I made my default run of niecza be niced, time limited, and memory limited.
14:04 Juerd That's great; thank you
14:04 [Coke] (my ./perl6 alias). so everything I run there should be a little less greedy going forward.
14:04 [Coke] ping me if you see a problem, though.
14:04 [Coke] I will also try to stick with a smaller number of TEST_JOBS.
14:07 [Coke] running a typical spec test run for niecza now.
14:08 [Coke] (it's building first, test harness starts shortly.)
14:09 [Coke] Juerd: oh, and I know there was one case when I nearly blew feather away, because I mistyped a TEST_JOBS parameter as 100 (!), but that was a onetime thing. ;)
14:10 [Coke] I would posit that if niecza has skipped a roast due to "nonsensical test" perhaps we should think about killing that test. ;)
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14:21 moritz it's just that people don't always agree abotu whether such a test is nonesensical
14:21 phenny moritz: 12:04Z <cedric> tell moritz S05:623 explains how to apply the :pos modifier to m//-like calls, how can one do the same with a call to a subrule within a grammar?
14:21 phenny moritz: 12:06Z <cedric> tell moritz viv and std don't complain when a "call-modifier" (like :pos) is applied to a definition.  This is unexpected according to S05:657.
14:24 [Coke] moritz: mmm. eventually I will open a ticket on specs or roast for clarification.
14:26 [Coke] yay, niecza got another 350 passing tests since yesterday.
14:26 moritz [Coke]: in general I'm happy to review dubious tests; but today i'm rather ill, so it's a bad time
14:27 colomon [Coke]: ;)
14:27 moritz lichtkind: any objections to publishing your advent post now?
14:28 lichtkind moritz: no :)
14:28 lichtkind i was going to ask you too :)
14:28 lichtkind i made some final touches in the night
14:28 lichtkind to make it spund more coherent after the deletions
14:28 lichtkind its a bit pitty that the last slamdunk doesnt work out but well
14:29 lichtkind s/spund/sound/
14:29 benabik moritz: Hope you feel better soon.
14:29 lichtkind is he ill?
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14:29 jnthn lichtkind: Read like 10 lines ago ;)
14:29 jnthn moritz: Get well soon!
14:31 colomon #    Failed test
14:31 colomon #           got: WTF
14:31 colomon #      expected: אאא
14:31 colomon sorear++
14:31 lichtkind jnthn: i think i came in after it
14:32 moritz thanks for the good wishes
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14:33 lichtkind yes get well
14:34 * moritz tries
14:34 [Coke] moritz: get well soon.
14:34 [Coke] moritz: NOW! ;)
14:35 lichtkind i ask god and arrange something :)
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14:40 cedric Hello #perl6
14:40 colomon \o
14:40 cedric o/ colomon
14:40 cedric [Coke] regarding http://irclog.perlgeek.de/​perl6/2011-12-20#i_4856073, were you talking about the questions on "call-modifiers"?
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14:41 lichtkind there are broken html entities at the end
14:41 dalek roast: 06087cb | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/autoincrement-range.t:
14:41 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
14:41 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/06087cb9a4
14:41 lichtkind did you fixed that or should i?
14:42 lichtkind moritz: ?
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14:45 moritz lichtkind: please do
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14:45 lichtkind moritz: done
14:45 [Coke] cedric: I actually don't know what test it was. I just saw it in a list of skip reasons.
14:48 [Coke] nom: say abs(2000).WHAT
14:48 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤  in method Bridge at src/gen/CORE.setting:2441␤  in sub infix:<<> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2371␤  in sub prefix:<abs> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2387␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/rA1FRy_aQ6:1␤  in <anon> at /tm…
14:48 [Coke] nom: say (abs(2000)).WHAT
14:48 p6eval nom 1eadbb: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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14:53 moritz oh, that's the weird "abs is a prefix, not a listop"
14:53 moritz pugs: say abs(2000).WHAT
14:53 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Int␤»
14:54 dalek niecza: 39ccdd6 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
14:54 dalek niecza: Turn on S03-operators/autoincrement-range.t.
14:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/39ccdd60db
14:54 [Coke] moritz: yah, just saw a spectest skip with that.
14:55 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/1476841 - colomon, good job, we're almost at 58%. ;)
14:55 [Coke] with moritz sick, I bet you can make up even more ground! hurry!
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14:56 [Coke] ... I'm going to have to switch the order of those dates soon.
14:58 colomon [Coke]: When sorear++ finishes the stuff he's been working on, we're probably going to pull in about 2000 passing tests overnight, I think.
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15:03 [Coke] colomon: sweet.
15:13 daxim I found today's advent door, practical work on data structures, really useful.  more of that stuff, please
15:13 lichtkind moritz: needed some reformat too, due different line breaks and more, but fixed all that immediately
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15:15 [Coke] daxim: good to hear.
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15:22 daxim http://www.phoronix.com/scan.ph​p?page=news_item&amp;px=MTAzMDk   for you compiler people
15:26 raiph lichtkind: nice post. i like that P5 is merely ugly whereas P6 is "hideous"!
15:26 lichtkind raiph: thank you :)
15:30 sorear good * #perl6
15:30 phenny sorear: 12:09Z <lumi___> tell sorear I'm a native Hebrew speaker and reader, ask me anything
15:30 phenny sorear: 12:38Z <colomon> tell sorear My wget appears to come from macports
15:30 flussence this is probably wildly inaccurate, but I've just got it up to date: https://github.com/flussence/s​pecgraphs/raw/master/impls.png
15:31 colomon o/, sorear
15:32 colomon sorear: just tried to implement srand and earned myself a Invalid IL code in Run.CORE:C806srand error.  :(
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15:33 sorear colomon: wow, nice
15:34 sorear colomon: btw, I finished \c and <:foo>
15:34 sorear dunno if that's what you meant
15:34 sorear o/ cedric
15:34 cedric o/ sorear
15:35 colomon public static void srand_time() { lock (rng) { rng = new Random(); }  }   // correct or insane?
15:35 cedric sorear, I tried to had support for Cursor.at() to Niecza without success, it seems I don't speak NAM fluently :)
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15:36 sorear colomon: I vote for insane
15:36 moritz .oO( insanely correct )
15:37 colomon sorear: can't change rng when you have a lock on it?
15:38 sorear colomon: one of the more insane things about the CLR is that every object contains a mutex
15:38 sorear colomon: you're replacing the mutex at the same time that you change rng, which almost certainly will mess up locking
15:38 kthakore sorear: I got SDL working at some point
15:38 kthakore can update the repo again if you are still interested
15:39 kthakore http://github.com/PerlGameDev/SDL6
15:39 sorear kthakore: ENOCONTEXT
15:39 kthakore I believe
15:39 kthakore you in my last log
15:39 kthakore < Radvendii> sorear: i have no idea. i just install things on a need  basis. but *so* often it just doesnt work. like with SDL.
15:39 kthakore 03:51 < Radvendii> i dont remember if i got SDL working in the end
15:39 colomon sorear: does that mean we need another variable to have a lock on, to indicate when it is okay to change rng?
15:40 sorear colomon: yes
15:40 sorear colomon: rather, the new variable has to be used everywhere lock (rng) currently is
15:40 colomon right, that's what I'm trying now
15:41 sorear cedric: ehh... Probably my fault.  What did you try?
15:42 raiph flussence: surprises me that # of spectests (22k ish) is roughly unchanged for 6 months
15:42 colomon sorear: suggested type for the new lock?
15:42 sorear object
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15:43 kthakore ok sorry
15:43 * kthakore goes back to lurking
15:44 colomon sorear: done, and I still get the error.  and I just realized it's because I'm not waving the "no return value" dead chicken at my CgOp call
15:44 colomon rnull?
15:46 cedric sorear, IIRC it was: "method at($pos) { Q:CgOp { (rxsetpos (cast int (obj_getnum {$pos}))) }}".  Mono stopped due to an illegal IL opcode.
15:46 cedric *illegal IL opcode
15:46 moritz nom: class A { method a() { } }; role B { method a() { ... } }; class C is A does B { };
15:46 p6eval nom 1eadbb:  ( no output )
15:49 dalek roast: 47189d0 | moritz++ | S14-roles/stubs.t:
15:49 dalek roast: test inheritance + stubbed method from a role
15:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/47189d06aa
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15:57 dalek roast: 74f5151 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-num/rand.t:
15:57 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
15:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/74f51513a1
15:58 sorear cedric: hmm... your immediate problem is the '"no return value" dead chicken', your less-immediate problem is that rxsetpos only works in regexes
15:59 sorear cedric: also, S05:1724 suggests that Cursor.at should normally be a zero-width assertion, not a movement command
16:03 cedric sorear, my attempt to do some cargo-cult programming in Niecza is definitively a failure :) Also I tried to implement the <at()> form (S05:4420), not the <?at()> one.
16:03 dalek niecza: 4f23627 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/ (2 files):
16:03 dalek niecza: Implement srand.
16:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4f236274b6
16:03 dalek niecza: 64301c7 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
16:03 dalek niecza: Turn on rand.t.
16:03 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/64301c750c
16:06 colomon perl6: say "abc\x[a]def" ~~ m/\c[LINE FEED (LF)]/
16:06 p6eval niecza v12-89-g39ccdd6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized character name LINE FEED (LF) at /tmp/sITQRGU4p_ line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "abc\x[a]def" ~~ m/\c[LINE FEED (LF)[33mâ��[31m]/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting …
16:06 p6eval ..rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«=> <␤>␤␤»
16:06 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.​13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
16:07 colomon perl6: say "abc\x[a]def" ~~ m/\c[LINE FEED]/
16:07 p6eval niecza v12-89-g39ccdd6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized character name LINE FEED at /tmp/hFlxrComoU line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "abc\x[a]def" ~~ m/\c[LINE FEED[33mâ��[31m]/[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 880 (…
16:07 p6eval ..rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name LINE FEED at line 1, near "]/"␤»
16:07 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.​13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
16:07 colomon perl6: say "\c[LINE FEED]"
16:07 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«␤␤»
16:07 p6eval ..rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized character name LINE FEED at line 1, near "]\""␤»
16:07 p6eval ..niecza v12-89-g39ccdd6: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![3​1m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Unrecognized character name LINE FEED at /tmp/ttOUpdUQvA line 1:â�¤------> [32msay "\c[LINE FEED[33mâ��[31m]"[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 880 (die @ 2) â�¤  at /ho…
16:08 colomon perl6: say "\c[LINE FEED (LF)]"
16:08 p6eval niecza v12-89-g39ccdd6: OUTPUT«Rebuild in progress␤»
16:08 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«␤␤»
16:08 sorear ehehee... I was hoping nobody would notice that case for a while
16:08 colomon sorear: it pops right out in S05-mass/named-chars.t
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16:14 flussence I'm writing perl5 code at $dayjob and really wish pack("n/($arbitrary_stuff)") worked right now...
16:16 flussence I have to glue together a network thing which goes: [length of actual data, actual data with variable length last field, null padding]... I've ended up using three nested pack() calls :(
16:16 colomon perl6: say "\c[ARMENIAN SMALL LETTER ECH]"
16:16 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Õ¥␤»
16:16 p6eval ..rakudo 1eadbb, niecza v12-91-g64301c7: OUTPUT«ե␤»
16:17 colomon sorear: what are the boundaries of that case you were hoping to sneak by?
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16:17 sorear colomon: <[\x00..\x1F]>
16:18 sorear the characters aren't officially named by Unicode
16:18 sorear unrelated: I'm trying to get the bootstrap working again.  "Compilation unit cannot be anonymous" at CORE.setting line... 2 :|
16:19 colomon sorear: gotcha
16:19 arnsholt On the bright side, you won't have to scroll far to find the spot where your compiler stopped O:)
16:19 dalek niecza: 6ff0fee | sorear++ | / (2 files):
16:19 dalek niecza: Small fixes to restore self-compilation
16:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6ff0feef10
16:20 sorear those were some little changes from last night
16:20 sorear which incidentally fix \cJ and \cM
16:21 sorear ahahaha
16:22 sorear it's obvious what broke :>
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16:31 colomon sorear: ack, named-chars.t starts off with like 100 tests of LF, CR, NEL, and FF.
16:33 dalek niecza: 282244a | sorear++ | src/STD.pm6:
16:33 dalek niecza: Remove some stray [0] from STD
16:33 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/282244af45
16:34 sorear colomon: ack
16:34 colomon sorear: the fudging is epic and ugly
16:35 sorear don't bother just yet
16:36 colomon actually, I just fudged it enough that it runs all the way through the test
16:36 colomon but it's got 168 failures
16:36 colomon and 116 skipped tests
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16:41 colomon sorear: it looks like the failures are most negative character class tests
16:41 dalek niecza: 1b83260 | sorear++ | lib/UCD.cs:
16:41 dalek niecza: Add name recognition via na1 for control chars
16:41 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/1b83260fd9
16:41 sorear stefan@stefans:~/rel/niecza$ mono-sgen run/Niecza.exe -e 'say ord "\c[LINE FEED
16:41 sorear (LF)]"'
16:41 sorear 10
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16:44 cedric Does someone know how to set the match position when calling a subrule in a grammar? I mean something similar to "m:pos(3)//" but applied to a subrule call. I guess it is "<at($pos)>" but I'm not sure.
16:47 colomon sorear: looks like \c[LF] still fails?
16:48 colomon rakudo skips all those tests, for what it is worth...
16:50 colomon okay, current stats: 43 skipped tests, 196 failed, 180 okay
16:50 colomon failures look to all be negative character class tests
16:51 colomon though not all negative tests fail
16:51 colomon example:
16:51 colomon ok(!( "\x[c]" ~~ m/^ \C[FORM FEED (FF)]/ )
16:57 [Coke] cedric: just so you know not everyone is ignoring you, no I have absolutely no idea how to do that, and am wondering why you wouldn't just adjust your grammar so you didn't have to manually muck with the position matched so far.
16:57 dalek roast: 957b9f9 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S05-mass/named-chars.t:
16:57 dalek roast: Fudge enough that niecza can run the file without a fatal error.
16:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/957b9f98f9
16:58 moritz cedric: probably  YourGrammar.parse('yourrule', :pos(12))
16:59 moritz cedric: note that in a grammar, <foo>-style subrule calls are *always* ancored to the current position, it doesn't make much sense to start off somewhere different inside a normal rule call
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17:05 colomon sorear: "Letter does not exist as a UCD table"?
17:11 cedric [Coke], moritz: I'm writting a grammar to parse ELF files.  I managed to get Niecza parsing the header correctly (32 or 64-bit) and now I want the parser to "jump" directly to the program/section header tables.  The location for these tables are described by the header as an offset in the file, hence my will to continue the parsing somewhere else.
17:13 moritz cedric: then you should do that by some outside, controlling code
17:14 moritz cedric: ie you have a routine that parses the header, extractions the location of the tables, and does another call to parse that with a different grammar
17:14 moritz that'll be much easier than doing everything in a grammar
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17:23 cedric moritz: much easier but less impressive :) I would like to demonstrate to my co-workmates how the Perl6 Grammar is powerful.  Seriously, only one "controlling" statement was needed so far (to detect 32/64-bit class), everything else is declarative.  I'm pretty sure it could be possible to get the whole ELF format described as Perl6 Rules (thanks to something like <at()> or :pos for subrule).
17:24 moritz in theory you can write .*?<at($location)>
17:25 moritz not sure if that works in niecza
17:25 moritz niecza: say 'abc' ~~/<at(1)>.*/
17:25 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method at in class Cursor␤  at /tmp/x4WXX8J8dx line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1688 (Regex.ACCEPTS @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/x4WXX8J8dx line 1 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.…
17:27 cedric It could work with the ELF format, but some formats require to jump backward (most .mov files for instance, the header is actually a footer ;)
17:34 cedric Since the Unicode level "bytes" isn't supported yet, the binary file is first converted to ASCII with the command ``hexdump -v -e '/1 "%02x"' /path/to/binary/file``, then I use: "token byte { .. }"
17:41 cedric moritz: I guess I misread you, did you mean "<at()>" should allow to move anywhere?
17:42 moritz cedric: no, <at> doesn't move anywhere, it's just an assertion
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17:50 cedric moritz: thanks for the clarification.  Then, what's the difference between <at()> and <?at()>?
17:50 moritz cedric: nothing, afaict
17:51 moritz cedric: you can call every rule <foo> as <?foo> to make it zero-width, but <at> already is zero-width
17:56 cedric moritz: it makes sense to me now, thanks!
18:02 moritz note that <?foo> does not capture either
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18:07 rindolf Hi all.
18:08 moritz hi rindolf
18:09 rindolf moritz: what's up?
18:09 moritz not much
18:10 * moritz is sick, and not much use for hacking it seems
18:11 dalek nqp: bceccc5 | moritz++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
18:11 dalek nqp: implement <at($pos)>
18:11 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/bceccc500b
18:11 dalek nqp: 3ae3f57 | moritz++ | t/qregex/rx_subrules:
18:11 dalek nqp: regex tests for <at>
18:11 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/3ae3f57972
18:13 rindolf moritz: oh, I hope you get well soon.
18:13 rindolf moritz: yet you're still hacking.
18:14 moritz occasionally. When I can sit :-)
18:14 rindolf moritz: ah.
18:14 rindolf moritz: what's preventing you from sitting?
18:14 ispeak_ joined #perl6
18:15 rindolf BTW, I liked this year's Perl 6 Advent Calendar less than last year's.
18:15 moritz rindolf: why?
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 106783c | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: run roles + stubs test file
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/106783cf09
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: dcfd439 | moritz++ | lib/Test.pm:
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: give eval_lives_ok some diagnostics in the case of test failure
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/dcfd4391b7
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: 89f54dc | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: bump to a NQP_REVISION that supports <at> in regexes
18:15 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/89f54dc71b
18:15 rindolf moritz: don't know.
18:15 moritz choice of topics? linguistic?
18:15 rindolf moritz: I guess they were less eye-popping features covered.
18:16 benabik Last year's seemed more tutorial, this one seems more technical.
18:16 rindolf moritz: things that make me go "Wow! That's Cool"
18:16 sorear colomon: er... niecza must be treating :Letter as :Letter<Y> and looking for a boolean property of that name
18:17 sorear hello rindolf
18:17 rindolf sorear: hi.
18:17 rindolf sorear: what's up?
18:17 sorear rindolf: well, all the "Wow! Cool!" topic were already covered last year
18:18 rindolf sorear: hmmm...
18:20 moritz last two years, actually
18:21 moritz I guess next year will cover much more modules
18:24 cedric How can I respectfully ask to language designers to think about a writable $/.pos? (since it could be useful to some parsers and also for the sake of consistency regarding the :pos modifier)
18:24 cedric std: say 'abc' ~~ /{ $/.pos = 2 }./
18:24 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
18:25 cedric perl6: say 'abc' ~~ /{ $/.pos = 2 }./
18:25 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: assigning to readonly value␤  at /tmp/X5cKMxcIZw line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1688 (Regex.ACCEPTS @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/X5cKMxcIZw line 1 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 228…
18:25 p6eval ..rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«Method 'pos' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/y9h6VvgJtT:1␤  in regex <anon> at /tmp/y9h6VvgJtT:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:7174␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/y9h6VvgJtT:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/y9h6VvgJtT:1␤»
18:25 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "}./"␤    expecting operator, "," or ":"␤    at /tmp/Oygmil1_Pv line 1, column 28␤»
18:26 moritz perl6: say 'abc' ~~ /{ $/.pos == 2 }./
18:27 p6eval rakudo 1eadbb: OUTPUT«Method 'pos' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/nrHCrA328e:1␤  in regex <anon> at /tmp/nrHCrA328e:1␤  in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:7174␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/nrHCrA328e:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/nrHCrA328e:1␤»
18:27 p6eval ..niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
18:27 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "}./"␤    expecting operator, ":" or ","␤    at /tmp/kmZHyTscXK line 1, column 29␤»
18:27 moritz evalbot rebuild nom
18:27 p6eval NOT OK (maybe a rebuild is already in progress?)
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18:28 sorear niecza: say 'abcdef' ~~ / <.cursor_at(4)> . /
18:28 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method cursor_at in class Cursor␤  at /tmp/dAD7fIMwuo line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1688 (Regex.ACCEPTS @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/dAD7fIMwuo line 1 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/li…
18:28 sorear niecza: say 'abcdef' ~~ / <.cursor(4)> . /
18:29 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(abcde) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
18:29 drbean joined #perl6
18:29 sorear cedric: undocumented feature
18:30 sorear cedric: if you want an Official Way, I'm afraid the only way I've ever seen work is to stay on and pester TimToady over several weeks
18:30 cedric :D
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18:31 moritz what's wrong with <at> as the official way?
18:31 moritz or do you mean the overlapping matches problem?
18:31 sorear moritz: <at> is zero-width, as you mentioned earlier
18:32 cedric moritz: I don't known how to use <at> to "jump" backward
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18:32 moritz you might be able to use the . ** -$large_number .. $large_number
18:33 sorear 1. nobody has implemented that
18:33 sorear 2. I think that syntax is insane
18:33 * moritz thinks that too
18:33 sorear 3. jumping around in the input should not be O(n)
18:35 cedric sorear: about 3. it isn't if a StrPos is used or if the input ~~ Buf
18:35 moritz niecza: say 'abcdefg' ~~ /. <.cussor(4)> ./
18:35 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method cussor in class Cursor␤  at /tmp/5tfONBnUmh line 1 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1688 (Regex.ACCEPTS @ 3) ␤  at /tmp/5tfONBnUmh line 1 (mainline @ 1) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/C…
18:35 sorear cedric: .*? <at($n)> has to do an O(n) amount of backtracking
18:35 moritz niecza: say 'abcdefg' ~~ /. <.cursor(4)> ./
18:35 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(5) text(abcde) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
18:35 sorear no matter _how_ you specify $n
18:36 benabik Jumping around in input really isn't what regexen were designed for.
18:37 sorear true, but they do it admirably
18:37 cedric sorear: you're right, I was thinking about a <set_pos()>-like feature (note: I didn't understand how to use <cursor()> yet)
18:37 sorear niecza: say 'abcdef' ~~ / ... <.cursor(0)> / # I wonder what this will do
18:37 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(0) text() pos([].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
18:38 sorear niecza: say 'abcdef' ~~ / def <.cursor(0)> / # I wonder what this will do
18:38 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Cannot be negative.␤Parameter name: length␤  at System.String.Substring (Int32 startIndex, Int32 length) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤  at Niecza.CtxMatchStr.Get (Niecza.Variable obj) [0x00000]…
18:38 sorear niecza: say ('abcdef' ~~ / def <.cursor(0)> /).chars
18:38 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«-3␤»
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18:40 cedric benabik: :pos is already there for Match calls, my point is to provide the same feature to subrule calls
18:45 cedric niecza: say 'abc' ~~ /<.cursor(2)>(.)<.cursor(0)>(.)/
18:45 p6eval niecza v12-94-g1b83260: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([#<match from(2) to(3) text(c) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>, #<match from(0) to(1) text(a) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
18:56 cedric sorear++ # for <cursor()>
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18:58 masak <sorear> 2. I think that syntax is insane
18:58 masak oh good, so it's not just me.
18:58 sorear o/ masak
18:58 masak evening, #perl6
18:58 sorear masak: 10:33  * moritz thinks that too
18:58 masak oh good, so it's not just moritz and me ;)
18:59 * masak starts a massive backlogging venture
18:59 moritz masak and me often seem to think the same thing, to the point where it gets almost scary
18:59 masak I pondered writing something similar :P
18:59 moritz :-)
19:00 * sorear is now trying to figure out why the bootstrap doesn't like <+>
19:03 masak ugh, my jetbrain is all lagged.
19:05 masak I meant to say, my jet is all lagbrained.
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19:22 dalek niecza: 2c78cd7 | sorear++ | src/NieczaActions.pm6:
19:22 dalek niecza: Fix compilation of "+" in bootstrap
19:22 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2c78cd7c03
19:22 sorear now it gets to about line 26
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19:55 moritz why does bootsrapping compilation regress?
19:55 moritz I mean, is it a much different code path from normal compilation?
19:56 masak what prompted your question? I'm not sure I understand it.
19:57 masak without knowing the context, it seems to me that bootstrapping compilation is extra sensitive simply because it feeds into itself, so errors tend to propagate.
19:57 moritz masak: around release time, sorear++ often mentions that bootsrapping niecza fails
19:57 sorear moritz: sometimes I accidentally write the compiler to rely on niecza bugs
19:58 moritz sorear: ok
19:58 sorear moritz: other times the compiler depends on stuff that is inadequately spectested
20:01 sorear it happens a lot more often than I'd like :/
20:06 masak sorear++ # exposing weak points in roast
20:07 moritz masak++ also learned the hard way that roast and applications often cover quit different areas of the language
20:08 * masak .oO( cheese )
20:09 sorear right now a lot of what I'm dealing with is niecza assuming that $/.ast means $/.ast // ~$/
20:11 masak it doesn't?
20:12 jnthn No.
20:13 jnthn If you don't make, you have no .ast
20:13 jnthn make $ast; # not war
20:18 sorear o/ jnthn
20:19 jnthn hi sorear
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20:20 dalek niecza: 586fbaa | sorear++ | src/ (3 files):
20:20 dalek niecza: More misc bootstrap fixes, mostly undef ast stuff
20:20 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/586fbaa34a
20:20 sorear yay, it gets a whole minute into building the setting before failing this time
20:21 colomon \o/
20:22 masak 'night, #perl6
20:23 sorear bye
20:23 sorear hope to see you again
20:23 jnthn fwiw, my onlineness is gonna be very sketchy over the next week.
20:24 [Coke] jnthn: like, you'll be connecting from the wrong side of town?
20:24 jnthn [Coke]: Nah, going to be with family who have...well actually I've no idea what sort of net connectivity they have.
20:25 jnthn Either way I'll probably be distracted doing family stuff. :)
20:28 sorear 'course, this is Europe, "sketchy" connectivity means something compeletely different than it does to coke and I :D
20:29 benabik A year or two ago I bought one of my in-laws a wifi router just so I wouldn't have to suffer over the holidays.  :-D
20:30 colomon benabik: I did the same at my parents' house years ago.
20:31 colomon In November, I was at my wife's grandfather's house.  No internet at all there.  :(
20:31 benabik The horror!
20:32 jnthn sorear: I feel like I'm missing a USism ;)
20:32 sorear jnthn: I live in a moderately big city and 10Mbps is considered fast
20:33 sorear also, I think we still have ~no non-tunnel IPv6 support
20:35 jnthn sorear: Whoa. When I was in Blava they had salesfolk wondering aroud the city trying to sell random folks 100Mbps fibre to home. :)
20:35 jnthn *wandering
20:35 jnthn *around
20:35 benabik :-(
20:35 jnthn Well, :-( for me too 'cus I moved away from Slovakia shortly after that.
20:36 jnthn I've actually no idea how fast my connection here is. Mostly, "fast enough that I never think about how fast it is" :)
20:36 sorear and by "moderately big city" I mean "the population of Estonia"
20:37 benabik Wow.  I'm actually getting 13/1 at the moment.  That'll change when other people are home though.
20:37 * jnthn lives in a relatively major city in Sweden, which measn 80,000 people :P
20:37 jnthn *means
20:38 jnthn I'm 10 mins by train from the 3rd biggest city...which has a massive population of just under 300,000 :)
20:53 fieldsa jnthn: hello from Canada, lots of space here
20:53 sorear benabik: Rochester?
20:53 benabik sorear: yupyup
20:55 sorear jnthn: how is life in sweden these days?  the US news media wants me to think that you've experienced the Apocalypse due to the greek situation
20:55 jnthn sorear: Well, for one Sweden isn't actually in the Eurozone. EU, but not the single currency.
20:56 jnthn sorear: That said, the Eurozone is a major trading partner, so it is having an impact.
20:56 jnthn (e.g. interest rates cut today)
20:57 jnthn Most unusual thing that's happened this month is that all of my trains have run on time, but I'm not sure that's a sign of the Appocalypse. ;)
20:57 jnthn fieldsa: Plenty here too - if you go to the north of Sweden. ;-)
20:58 jnthn fieldsa: I'd love to visit Canada though. Please host a YAPC::NA. ;-)
20:59 fieldsa jnthn: Ottawa.pm meets this evening, I can propose it to them.
21:00 jnthn fieldsa: Are there any Perl workshops in Canada? :)
21:01 * colomon is now dreaming about having YAPC::NA in St. John's....
21:02 sorear sweet, CORE built without _error_
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21:04 fieldsa jnthn: I would suggest they are, but I don't think they get publication, probably in Vancouver,BC.  YAPC::NA was held in Ottawa 2004 and in Toronto 2005, where atrj presented on pugs
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21:05 jnthn fieldsa: Yeah, I'm aware it's happened...it's before I was really involved with Perl things though.
21:06 fieldsa I personally think the work in rakudo is great, I want to see community involvement
21:07 * colomon is very fond of Toronto too, mind you.
21:07 * sorear needs to get out more :|
21:08 jnthn sorear: Careful, I went out with $dayjob last night and $friend tonight and got no hacking done at all ;)
21:08 * jnthn realizes he really should get on with packing stuff, given he has a flight tomorrow morning.
21:09 sorear family back in the UK?
21:09 jnthn sorear: Yeah.
21:09 colomon sorear: Toronto's the closest awesome city to us, and so I've spent a good bit of time there over the years, starting with train trips when I was little.
21:14 mikemol colomon: Hm. Toronto is 'close' in some sense? Where are you?
21:15 mikemol Toronto is only twice as far from me as Detroit is.
21:16 colomon Michigan.
21:16 sorear closest awesome city to me is SF, which is still a 10 hour drive, and I'm only ever there to meet family :|
21:18 colomon Google says it's 5.5 hours to Toronto from here, and this is the furtherest I've ever lived from the big TO.
21:25 dalek niecza: 9d8f021 | sorear++ | src/NieczaActions.pm6:
21:25 dalek niecza: More random fixes, now can compile CORE without warning or error
21:25 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/9d8f0217f0
21:33 mikemol colomon: Seriously? I'm over in Grand Rapids.
21:33 colomon mikemol: Midland
21:33 mikemol Heh. Neat.
21:35 mikemol You should do a presentation in front of the Ann Arbor Perl Mongers group. :)
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21:43 dalek niecza: b353fb6 | sorear++ | src/NieczaFrontendSTD.pm6:
21:43 dalek niecza: One more small bootstrap fix
21:43 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b353fb6829
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21:48 colomon mikemol: the only contact I ever had with them was going to one of Damian's presentations on Perl 6 back in 2004 or so.  It was what got me interested in p6.
21:50 mikemol colomon: Just about the only contact I've had with them was when I presented on Rosetta code. LiquidWeb wanted to show off their new datacenter and that they were a Perl shop, and I heard the AAPM meeting in Lansing via the Grand Rapids Linux Users Group.
21:51 mikemol Though I'm still on their mailing list. They're wanting for topics for regular meetings. Same as anyone these days, I guess; GRLUG shifted to an informal structure a couple years ago, and it looks like AAPL is moving in the same direction.
21:55 colomon I'm not really sure why I never got more involved with AA.PM, as I lived there from 2001-2010 and had been using Perl since well before that.
21:56 mikemol s/AAPL/AA.PM/
21:56 mikemol I could have sworn I made that correction once already.
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21:56 benabik One of the last messages on the Rochester.PM list is "Perl 5.8.0 has been released!"
21:57 colomon mikemol: you were using them both, I just grabbed one.  ;)
22:01 * sorear was at SanDiego.pm on Thursday
22:17 sorear :| current niecza can compile itself.  the new version, however, is unusably slow
22:17 sorear 10 minutes to get a few % into NieczaActions.pm6
22:21 lue What is meant by "lexical imports" in topics-brainstorming for the 2011 advent calendar?
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22:33 sorear { use Module; exports available here; } but not here;
22:36 sorear hey, it seems they made the mono profiler suck less since the last time I tried it.
22:37 lue Ah.
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23:13 tadzik phenny: ask jnthn if I understand it correcly, at this moment two precompiled modules with different source files are _never_ binary compatibile?
23:13 phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
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23:32 jnthn tadzik: What do you mean by "different source files"?
23:32 phenny jnthn: 23:13Z <tadzik> ask jnthn if I understand it correcly, at this moment two precompiled modules with different source files are _never_ binary compatibile?
23:32 jnthn tadzik: If you mean different content, then your statement is correct.
23:33 tadzik well, let's optimize JSON::Tiny a bit, w/o changing functionality
23:33 jnthn I've pretty much concluded Rakudo itself is going to have to maintain the precompilation cache.
23:34 tadzik *relief* :)
23:34 jnthn It's becoming less effort for me to implement that than it is to deal with people being constanly surprised by the thing working as I designed it to... :)
23:34 tadzik I figured that in the current state, Panda would have to be very careful not to break itself during updates
23:34 tadzik :D
23:35 tadzik I'm sorry for constantly nagging you about that :)
23:35 jnthn tadzik: Well, in theory the module loader is best placed to know the dependencies and do the Right Thing.
23:36 jnthn tadzik: And I woulda somewhat preferred pre-compilation "magic" not to be in the Rakudo core.
23:36 jnthn Either way, we'll get problems, people unhappy with the way its working, etc.
23:36 tadzik possibly
23:37 tadzik well, I'm probably the only unhappy user right now, so maybe nevermind :P
23:37 * jnthn already busted one production system today because it had if-you're-lucky-enough-to-make-j​ust-little-changes-binary-compat
23:38 jnthn (My change was just a little too un-little, it turned out :))
23:38 tadzik :D
23:38 jnthn Anyway, I'll see what I can do.
23:39 sorear ow! LTM shot up from <10% of runtime to 75%
23:39 sorear profiling++
23:40 jnthn eek!
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