Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-01-05

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:05 Psyche^ joined #perl6
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00:18 dalek niecza: 4f3692f | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
00:18 dalek niecza: Fix roles that compose other roles
00:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4f3692f557
00:18 dalek niecza: 5c21950 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
00:18 dalek niecza: Use .can instead of old try hack
00:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5c219509a6
00:18 dalek niecza: c6b4acc | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
00:18 dalek niecza: Convert Real, Numeric, Integral, Callable to roles; add Positional, Associative
00:18 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c6b4acc1dd
00:24 dalek niecza: c8eeefc | sorear++ | / (3 files):
00:24 dalek niecza: @foo requires Positional, %foo requires Associative (fixes #50)
00:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c8eeefc0cf
00:26 sorear 10 open issues
00:33 sorear nom: say 5.Any::Bool
00:33 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:33 sorear nom: say 0.Any::Bool
00:33 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
00:34 sorear Should this be allowed?
00:35 sorear The CLR forbids (when bytecode verification is enabled) superclass calls except from the methods that override them, as a security measure
00:35 sorear I'm thinking that P6 should maybe require "trusts" in some way
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00:48 TimToady why should a subclass not be able to call a public method?
00:49 TimToady and private methods are already require 'trusts' from subclasses
00:50 TimToady (and nextsame is already limited to overriding methods)
00:50 TimToady btw, the prime factors from earlier now fails with: Attempted to re-enter abnormally exitted or running coroutine
00:51 [Coke] I'm seeing the -order.t tests not running END{} blocks again.
00:51 TimToady hmm, s/exitted/exited/
00:51 geekosaur as long as it's not excited
00:52 TimToady sorear: I mean, the error message has a misspelling, in addition to being an error we shouldn't get
00:53 [Coke] TimToady: I'll fix the mispelling, anyway.
00:54 dalek roast: b257971 | coke++ | S (5 files):
00:54 dalek roast: niecza fudge
00:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b2579717eb
00:55 dalek niecza: b68fd9b | coke++ | / (2 files):
00:55 dalek niecza: Add Str.indent(), run S32-str/indent.t
00:55 dalek niecza:
00:55 dalek niecza: Original version from rakudo++'s ng branch.
00:55 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b68fd9b494
00:55 dalek niecza: 5ae70b5 | coke++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
00:55 dalek niecza: fix typo
00:55 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/5ae70b5040
00:55 [Coke] there you go.
00:57 TimToady thanks--I feel silly nitpicking when sorear++ is slaying large dragons
00:58 sorear TimToady: the sequence operator looks ahead one more value than is strictly necessary, so you need 2, 3, 5 ...
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01:01 TimToady almost makes one wish that 2,3,5...* automatically generated primes
01:01 TimToady but if we were going to build it in @primes would still be shorter :)
01:01 sorear TimToady: I'm talking about cases of $obj.Superclass::method(), where $obj is an _unrelated_ object
01:02 sorear rakudo: say now
01:02 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Instant:1325722942.28046␤»
01:02 sorear rakudo: say now.perl
01:02 TimToady why would that be a problem?
01:02 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Instant.new(x => 778199369038/587)␤»
01:02 sorear rakudo: say :foo.Any::perl
01:02 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Pair.new(key => "foo", value => Bool::True)␤»
01:03 sorear encapsulation breakage
01:05 TimToady that seems like a bad kind of encapsulation that violates the substitution principle
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01:35 dalek niecza: fa69aee | sorear++ | src/niecza:
01:35 dalek niecza: Re-enable type checking for role invocants
01:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/fa69aee801
01:35 dalek niecza: 123d639 | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
01:35 dalek niecza: Rearrange series op to be less eager, fixes TimToady's primer
01:35 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/123d639b1e
01:39 colomon woah, go away to dinner and storytime and miracles happen in niecza!
01:47 TimToady though I might leave in the 5 just because 2,3,5 is good documentation :)
01:49 sorear I don't think this counts as miracles... it's generally been easier than I expected
02:00 sorear rakudo: role A { has $.x; method foo() { $.x } }; class B does A { }; say B.new(x => 5).x
02:00 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«5␤»
02:00 sorear rakudo: role A { has $.x; method foo() { $.x } }; class B does A { }; say B.new(x => 5).A::x
02:00 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤  in method x at src/gen/CORE.setting:1339␤  in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:1140␤  in method dispatch:<::> at src/gen/CORE.setting:760␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/YiNS5544Y7:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/YiNS5544Y7:1␤»
02:00 sorear bug?
02:04 colomon I'm running spectest now, and it's taking quite a bit longer than normal and I'm getting zillions of warnings scrolling by...
02:08 [Coke] I got a much lower pass rate when I tried to run the numbers just now.
02:10 sorear failing test?
02:10 sorear [Coke]: can you name a regressed test?
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02:12 [Coke] investigating.
02:13 [Coke] (it's from the test_summary tool, so it's not the same output)
02:15 [Coke] S06-signature/named-parameters.niecza aborted 67 test(s)
02:16 colomon spectest run is taking WAY too long.  like at least two orders of magnitude worse than the last run I made.
02:17 Timbus rakudo: class A {has $.thing = "default"; submethod BUILD {say "workin' hard"};}; A.new(thing => 'notdefault').thing.say
02:17 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«workin' hard␤default␤»
02:17 [Coke] http://feather.perl6.nl/~coke/failures.txt
02:18 [Coke] (also, I was at least one commit behind.)
02:18 Timbus rakudo: class A {has $.thing = "default"; submethod BUILD {callsame};}; A.new(thing => 'notdefault').thing.say
02:18 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«default␤»
02:18 Timbus .. realllly
02:20 colomon sorear: my dire reports may have resulted from one particular test getting into an infinite loop
02:28 Timbus okay after reading the syn, i can't tell if this is desired behavior or not.
02:29 Timbus rakudo: class A {has $.thing;submethod BUILD {};}; A.new(thing => 'notdefault').thing.say
02:29 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
02:31 Timbus well, i sure don't desire it
02:31 Timbus but thats me
02:31 sorear colomon: do you know which one?
02:32 colomon sorear: as soon as I figure it out I'll let you know.
02:32 colomon seemed like it was late in the integration tests, or early in whatever comes next
02:32 colomon but it spews out so many messages it's hard to work with.
02:33 sorear what messages?
02:33 sorear (I mean, if it's a backtrace it should have a file name)
02:34 colomon all I see... oh, bingo
02:35 colomon integration
02:35 colomon
02:35 colomon advent2010-day04.t
02:35 colomon sorear++
02:36 [Coke] I'm still seeing failures with the latest niecza.
02:37 dalek roast: 85e13f8 | sorear++ | S06-signature/named-parameters.t:
02:37 dalek roast: [S06-signature/named-parameters] Refudge for niecza (accidental passes)
02:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/85e13f8422
02:37 sorear those tests are ... quite dubious
02:39 colomon one disturbing thing about going through roast is seeing how many tests are dubious.
02:39 [Coke] (bisecting)
02:39 jakky joined #perl6
02:40 sorear [Coke]: failures outside named-parameters/
02:40 sorear ?
02:41 [Coke] there were a few, yes. I'm just seeing when that one started failing.
02:41 colomon yeah, it's definitely integration/advent2010-day04.t
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02:42 [Coke] see the .txt link above for all the failures I was seeing.
02:43 [Coke] c8eeefc0cf9e6a01c3c292edcb077d24247bc61d is when that test started failing.
02:47 colomon huh.  now it looks like S03-metaops/reverse.t is looping forever
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03:03 colomon I did a make realclean and I'm still getting the infinite loop in integration/advent2010-day04.t.  Is anyone else seeing this?
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03:16 colomon niecza: say (0, 2 ... *)[^10]
03:16 p6eval niecza v13-108-g123d639: OUTPUT«0 2 Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any() Any()␤»
03:23 colomon that's a less that satisfactory answer, I reckon.
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03:36 colomon don't have the brain power left to explore this tonight.  good *, p6ers
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03:52 ruoso sorear, colomon: does niecza have exceptions working already?
03:53 colomon yes
03:53 colomon niecza: say (0, 2 ... * > 100)[^10]
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03:53 p6eval niecza v13-108-g123d639: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 893 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 202 (Any.Numeric @ 6) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/JqowGZor7a line 0 (ANON @…
03:55 sorear [Coke]: I'm expecting c8eeefc to break stuff... it tightens up a check that's long been too loose
03:55 sorear I see I broke series. :|
03:57 sorear niecza: .say for 0, 2 ... * > 100
03:57 p6eval niecza v13-108-g123d639: OUTPUT«0␤2␤Use of uninitialized value in numeric context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 893 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 202 (Any.Numeric @ 6) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /tmp/dH3RhLl3DH line 0 (AN…
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04:19 dalek niecza: 84f6f00 | sorear++ | lib/CORE.setting:
04:19 dalek niecza: Fix series breakage in integration/advent2010-day04.t
04:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/84f6f00de3
04:20 xinming joined #perl6
04:20 ruoso sorear: https://github.com/ruoso/niecza/commit/3​d45d0ccc0e96032562af4d5f99efa54e4479363
04:21 ruoso I am trying to get the objectpipe thing going..
04:21 replore joined #perl6
04:21 ruoso but I can't make the thread return after it ends
04:26 sorear 'when Str' should probably be default { }, since someday niecza will get exception objects
04:27 dalek niecza: e593b09 | (Daniel Ruoso)++ | / (2 files):
04:27 dalek niecza: initial sketch of the full ObjectPipe framework
04:27 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e593b09a65
04:27 ruoso sorear: but the point is that it is getting into the CATCH
04:28 sorear ruoso: no DESTROY in niecza yet - and even if there was, mono doesn't make guarantees of immediate destruction
04:28 ruoso but the process blocks, probably waiting for the thread to finish
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04:28 ruoso sorear: it doesn't need to be immediate
04:28 ruoso invokign the DESTROY manually is doing what it's supposed to...
04:28 ruoso as a work-around
04:28 sorear DESTROY could be called hours later, if the program goes into a state where it doesn't allocate much
04:29 sorear since DESTROY will only be called when the GC runs
04:29 ruoso that's ok, by the model we're working with
04:29 sorear (when it's implemented - which it isn't)
04:30 ruoso that's like unix pipes... there's no guarantee that the other program will be stopped immediately when the other side of the pipe closes
04:30 sorear ruoso: enter/pulse/exit is very very bad
04:30 sorear you need to do all the state modification inside the lock
04:32 sorear you probably shouldn't read or modify $!anything unless $!lock is held
04:32 * ruoso changing that
04:33 unobe joined #perl6
04:42 ruoso sorear: ok... I got it... if I don't explicitly join the thread in the end, it just hangs in undefined behavior
04:45 dalek niecza: b2b426b | (Daniel Ruoso)++ | examples/threads-objectpipe.pl:
04:45 dalek niecza: joining the thread explicitly seems to be mandatory
04:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/b2b426b006
04:45 dalek niecza: a988fa0 | (Daniel Ruoso)++ | lib/Threads.pm6:
04:45 dalek niecza: Fixes in the implementation of the ObjectPipe
04:45 dalek niecza:
04:45 dalek niecza: not really a need for $!eod. return EMPTY when no more writers.
04:45 dalek niecza: Use plain "wait" instead of "try_wait" (since we now undrestand
04:45 dalek niecza: why things were weird.
04:45 dalek niecza: Have all methods with the proper lock guards.
04:45 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a988fa04a4
04:47 ruoso examples/threads-objectpipe.pl have an example on how the pipe works by blocking and eventually stopping the producer side depending on how the consumer acts... which is the basis for "my @a <== 1..inf"
04:53 dalek niecza: 7896533 | (Daniel Ruoso)++ | examples/threads-objectpipe.pl:
04:53 dalek niecza: make the example more explicit
04:53 dalek niecza:
04:53 dalek niecza: The semantics of batch-processing imply that we may actually not use all the data
04:53 dalek niecza: that we produce. But we dont wait for each value to be used to produce another one
04:53 dalek niecza: The output of the example shows that the thread will produce a set of objects
04:53 dalek niecza: before the context switches again.
04:53 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/7896533c16
04:54 ruoso night &
04:54 TimToady o/
04:55 ruoso TimToady: hey
04:55 ruoso TimToady: I hope the direcetion I am pointing is consistent with your view on parallelism :)
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04:56 TimToady to the extent that I understand what you're doing, it seems fine
04:58 TimToady doubtless we'll discover all the pitfalls that every other general concurrency model discovers :)
04:58 TimToady but I really like to see us doing something rather than nothing
04:59 ruoso and in any case, implicit threading protects us from ourselves in the sense that we can change underlying models easier, since the user is not actually using the threading primitives
04:59 TimToady nodnod
04:59 TimToady we'll need to control access to structures from outside the thread somehow though
05:00 ruoso if the low-level is thread-safe... what kind of synchronization we really need?
05:01 ruoso I mean, besides the flow of the data
05:01 TimToady for example if an array is visible lexically outside of two different thread
05:01 TimToady threads
05:02 ruoso do we really need to proactively protect the user in that cases?
05:03 TimToady that can be argued both ways, of course
05:03 ruoso I had the impression that things were pointing towards the "if you modify the data you just returned, you better synchronize yourself" approach
05:05 ruoso but really night &
05:05 TimToady night
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05:36 japhb TimToady, in S02:3288, why does :100[3,'.',14,16] require quotes around the radix point?
05:37 sorear it would be a syntax error if it didn't
05:37 sorear the inside of the [] is just a Perl 6 expression
05:39 japhb sorear, yes, but *why*?  All other radix notations require special parsing ... or are you saying that any Perl 6 expression that results in a List with Int/int and at most one string containing exactly a single . would work?
05:40 sorear japhb: I beleive so
05:40 sorear japhb: what STD has to say about it is that it is parsed by <?before '['> <circumfix>, i.e. an Array is created
05:40 japhb Hmmm.  I don't think Str.Numeric() (and thus val()) should support that generality.
05:41 japhb It seems important to me that val() be "safe" and not risk entering the general language
05:41 * PerlJam idly wonders what happens when that list contains multiple '.'
05:42 PerlJam or '_' even
05:42 sorear japhb: I don't think that Str.Numeric should support any form that uses the general language
05:42 japhb sorear, good, then we're on the same page there
05:42 TimToady is fine to avoid security holes
05:42 japhb PerlJam, _ within the decimal values should Just Work, but it feels silly to make '_' work
05:43 PerlJam japhb: aye
05:45 japhb Hmmm, so then I guess Str.Numeric() accepting '.' instead of just . for radix points in :r[] just makes it *appear* to be parsed as a normal Array in the general language.  Fewer special cases to remember.  OK, I can buy that.
05:47 TimToady Str.Numeric has nothing to do with that notation
05:47 sorear I beleive Str.Numeric should not accept :100[...] at all
05:48 japhb TimToady, sorear and I had been assuming that val() internally works by trying a series of coercions, and accepting the first one that does not result in Failure.  And Str.Numeric() was one of those attempts.  Thus my continued coding on same.
05:48 japhb sorear, why not?
05:49 japhb rakudo/str-numeric has long accepted the basic :100[...], but just didn't have support for radix point and exponent.
05:50 TimToady if it's parsing ... as a string, it's incorrect
05:50 * japhb blinks
05:50 TimToady S03:3290 indicates it's a run-time list of integers
05:50 TimToady S02:3290 rather
05:52 japhb Er, maybe my numbering's off.  All that 3290 tells me is that I have to be sure to range-check the elements in that list, and that the members of the list should be parsed as radix-10 standard ints.
05:52 TimToady these days we might possibly allow :100<3 . 14 16> as a string form
05:52 japhb Hmmm, interesting.
05:53 TimToady constant-folding indicates evaluation
05:53 TimToady and the fact that constant folding can fail points to a run-time value
05:54 sorear TimToady: japhb: I think japhb is talking about ':60[12,23,34]'.Numeric
05:54 japhb Wait, spec says elsewhere that numeric constants must not have spaces internally, so that in a larger qw-type string they are easily visible as single units
05:54 japhb sorear, yes, exactly
05:54 TimToady that's gonna be illegal input to .Numeric
05:55 TimToady as I say, we might allow :60<11 23 34> instead
05:55 japhb Er why?
05:55 TimToady because the list would have to be evaluated
05:55 TimToady to be consistent with how it works in normal code
05:55 TimToady I'd rather use the spaces in <...> if we need to force stringness
05:56 japhb No it wouldn't.  There's no reason that just because it *looks* like a list of ints means it has to be a List (or Array or whatever).  As far as my code had handled it so far, it was comma separated digit groups
05:57 japhb I'm just saying that Str.Numeric() can choose not to support the full generality of eval "".
05:57 japhb While still supporting much of the common cases.
05:57 TimToady well, why wouldn't you want :60<12 23 34> instead to make that perfectly clear
05:57 japhb Because that contains internal spaces, breaking the "can be embedded in a larger << >> string"
05:58 * TimToady still doesn't like it, but I see your point
05:58 * japhb is worried that he is being horribly blind at this point
05:59 TimToady course we can always teach << >> about that form of quoting too...
05:59 japhb LOL
05:59 japhb "When in doubt, make the parser even smarter!"
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06:00 TimToady in fact, it's already specced
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06:00 TimToady S02:3567
06:01 * japhb reading that section again ...
06:01 TimToady so :60<12 23 34> should parse as a single Pair inside of «»
06:04 japhb Woah.  So then we'd need to have val() turn that into some kind of three-headed beast that was a Str, a Pair, and an Int?
06:04 * japhb often underestimates the magic of double angle quoting
06:05 TimToady no, it'd turn into 12*360 + 23*60 + 34
06:05 sorear I think single-angle quoting has the same magic
06:05 sorear TimToady: It wouldn't become an allomorphic object?
06:06 TimToady well, I doubt people will use the Str allomorphism on pairs
06:07 sorear it seems to me that the Str allomorphism is necessary for reasonable round-trippiness in MAIN
06:07 japhb quite.
06:07 TimToady it would be useful for reporting faulty arguments, yes
06:07 sorear ./perl6_echo_clone ':60<12 23 34>' # Why does this print an integer?
06:08 TimToady okay, a Str and an Int, but not a Pair
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06:08 japhb TimToady, not just for that ... it has to be possible to write a MAIN that just wants Str arguments and doesn't want some of them to randomly morph into something else because of chance alignment of characters.
06:08 TimToady we just steal pair notation for a way to talk about numbers there
06:09 japhb Ah, I was taking your comment of :60<12 23 34> parsing as a Pair inside of French quotes and thinking we'd have to support triple allomorphism.
06:09 TimToady no, just double
06:09 TimToady same as if you'd said 1234 in there
06:10 sorear perl6: say pi.Rat.perl
06:10 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Rat: "&Rat"␤    at /tmp/0bulOqZeNc line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
06:10 p6eval ..rakudo 1c74c7, niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«355/113␤»
06:10 sorear perl6: say e.Rat.perl
06:10 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7, niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«2721/1001␤»
06:10 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&e"␤    at /tmp/XCWy4cxOxe line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
06:11 japhb TimToady, so if you put :60<12 23 34> in French quotes you get Int/Str, but if you put :foo<12 23 34> in French quotes you get Pair/Str?
06:11 TimToady Pair/Array, but yes
06:12 japhb Ah, sorry, yes.
06:12 japhb Wait, what?
06:12 sorear japhb: :60<...> isn't valid Pair syntax anyway; key has to start with <alpha>
06:12 japhb sorear, nodnod.  I was just confirming my sanity
06:12 TimToady which is why we could steal it for numbers
06:13 japhb Always good to do a sanity check before entering another room.  :-)
06:13 TimToady and save the game before facing the new monsters
06:17 japhb You know, it almost feels like "things that val() recognizes as not-just-a-Str" should be a grammar of its own, if only for documentation for people wondering what is and what is not handled -- and so that security specialists can understand it in isolation.
06:17 japhb s/should be/should have/
06:17 TimToady it would be nice if that coincided with what the constant folder could fold
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06:18 TimToady to the extent we can do that without risk of BEGIN stuff sneaking through
06:18 dukeleto o/
06:18 TimToady \o
06:18 sorear I disagree
06:19 japhb I would think val()'s powers should be a subset of the constant folder's powers.
06:19 sorear val() needs to be much more tightly constrained than the constant folder
06:19 japhb Basically that if val() can recognize it, you should be guaranteed that the constant folder will as well, but not the other way around
06:19 japhb sorear, right
06:19 sorear It doesn't matter if different implementations have constant folders with different limitations
06:19 sorear But val needs consistant semantics
06:19 japhb nodnod
06:21 japhb (perhaps "guaranteed that the constant folder will as well" is too strong.  I should say rather "you can reasonably expect that if an implementation has a well-developed constant folder, it is at least as powerful as val()"
06:21 dalek niecza: 319d51c | sorear++ | / (5 files):
06:21 dalek niecza: Add self.Foo::bar syntax
06:21 dalek niecza:
06:21 dalek niecza: This is closely modelled after the Rakudo/nom implementation, and copies the
06:21 dalek niecza: buggy role behavior from same.  Waiting for jnthn++ to find an elegant fix.
06:21 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/319d51c5b8
06:21 * TimToady thinks it does matter if different implementations have different constant folders
06:22 japhb TimToady, do you disagree with the (second iteration of) my statement re: val() is a subset of the constant folder, but the latter is unconstrained to be arbitrarily more powerful than that?
06:23 japhb .oO( The answer to your program is 42.  So I compiled it down to just that.  Have a nice day! )
06:23 TimToady if different implementations have different ideas of what is pure, we're in deep yogurt
06:24 TimToady the argument to limit val() must be based on some other criterion than that the constant folders will vary
06:25 TimToady if the argument is that you don't want to provide an automatic calculator on the command line for every argument, well, you'll need to justify that :)
06:25 japhb I think we're speaking in opposite directions.  I'm assuming that an implementor that can create val() correctly can create a constant folder of similar power.  But we cannot assume that all implementations can figure out the purity of more complex stuff than that.
06:26 japhb I guess this is sortof like the "Just because you can use continuations to implement these features doesn't mean we expect every implementation to support full continuations always"
06:27 japhb I'm OK with val() being immensely powerful, iff A) it remains secure, and B) the behavior does not arbitrarily suprise people.
06:28 japhb (Mind you, it would be really nice if it can be implemented with modicum of efficiency.  :-)
06:28 TimToady well, it's just kind of a strawman, anyway; it's almost certainly a bad idea :)
06:29 TimToady or at least, difficult to know what to do if you get halfway through something that looks like an expression and you get an error
06:29 TimToady val() is underspecced already for an argument like ':8<nyaa nyaa nyaa'
06:30 japhb (Perhaps I shouldn't admit at this point that I very nearly implemented a calculator in Str.Numeric() as an Easter egg ...)
06:30 TimToady do we just silently give up and return the Str?  that's probably the right thing to do, on the assumption of accidental numberhood
06:31 sorear What's the numeric value of nyaa nyaa nyaa anyway?
06:31 japhb TimToady, yeah.  I expect Str.Numeric() to see that and fail(), but val() to see that and silently return Str.
06:31 TimToady the alterenative is to carp
06:32 sorear for the MAIN use case val() should not carp ever
06:32 sorear and it REALLY shouldn't confess
06:32 sorear or croak
06:32 japhb sorear, yup
06:32 TimToady I mean carp in the English sense...
06:32 TimToady but I agree it probably shouldn't
06:32 benabik The val() of ':8<nyaa nyaa nyaa' is a fish?  ;-)
06:33 sorear sorry, last two lines were meant as humor ;)
06:33 japhb I think of val() as silently doing the best it can to be magical, and if not able to find a match, just returning the original argument.
06:33 sorear benabik: probably a cat, given the noise ...
06:33 sorear ==japhb
06:34 benabik sorear: I thought cats went nyan.  :D
06:34 japhb And stooges go 'nyuk'
06:34 TimToady :8< looks like the front of a mouse
06:34 japhb A neighbor's car has the license plate '3nyuk'
06:34 sorear .oO( Stooges are Korean? )
06:35 sorear ...I just mentally transposed 3nyuk to nyuk3 and tried to parse it as Pinyin
06:35 japhb LOL
06:36 TimToady are there any Chinese dialects with a trailing /k/ phoneme?
06:38 sorear looks like I'll have to mess with generic types to get much further with roles
06:38 japhb OK, circling back to the beginning:  Do we agree that :100[12,'.',34] and :100< 12 . 34 > are valid but :100[12,.,34] is not?
06:39 sorear std: :100[12,.,34]
06:39 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ at /tmp/6aTdzwvTuh line 1:�------> [32m:100[12,.,[33m�[31m34][0m�Parse failed�FAILED 00:01 122m�»
06:39 sorear std: :100< 12 . 34 >
06:39 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 118m␤»
06:39 sorear niecza: say :100< 12 . 34 >
06:39 p6eval niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«102.0304␤»
06:39 TimToady it should probably not give the p5 message there...
06:40 sorear (probably not the intended result)
06:40 TimToady er, no :)
06:40 japhb eh, no.  ;-)
06:40 japhb jinx
06:41 japhb OK, I'll implement that then.
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06:42 japhb Also: I had been making Str.Numeric() not allow any internal spaces (it forgives leading and trailing spaces, however) -- should I relax that and allow internal spaces wherever they make sense?  In other words, should '5 / 8' Just Work?
06:44 japhb (I swear, by the end of this I will have the most scrupulously precise implementation of the tiniest piece of Perl 6 ... I fear the time sink of applying this OCD to the rest of the language.)
06:45 TimToady it makes some sense in some contexts but not much sense in others
06:45 japhb *should '5 / 8'.Numeric() Just Work?
06:45 TimToady I can see a string like that coming from the command line, but inside <5 / 8> it's really a list
06:46 sorear japhb: have you looked at niecza's Str.Numeric yet?
06:46 TimToady and it certainly won't work inside «»
06:46 TimToady where 5/8 must be a single word
06:46 japhb sorear, No I hadn't ... I didn't realize you had finished it
06:46 TimToady so I think we can live without the space
06:47 japhb Right, but you can say « "5 / 8" »
06:47 sorear japhb: I put less OCD into mine
06:47 japhb .oO( Now with less OCD! )
06:47 TimToady as currently specced, only leading and trailing space is allowed
06:48 japhb OK, that's my current implementation.
06:49 japhb So then the only exception will be :100< 12 34 >
06:49 sorear nom: role Foo[::T] { class Bar is T { } }
06:49 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot type check against type variable T␤»
06:51 japhb Time to take a break &
06:52 TimToady of course, if we don't allow inner spaces, then it makes it hard to justify printing out complex numbers with inner spaces
06:52 TimToady perl6: say 1+2i
06:52 p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 1c74c7, niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«1 + 2i␤»
06:54 TimToady perl6: say (1/2).perl
06:54 p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 1c74c7, niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«1/2␤»
06:54 TimToady inconsistency there...
06:57 TimToady zzz &
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07:03 sorear perl6: say (e+pi).Rat.perl
07:03 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«19613/3347␤»
07:03 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&e"␤    at /tmp/yThW8a0JHx line 1, column 6-10␤»
07:03 p6eval ..niecza v13-113-g7896533: OUTPUT«13173/2248␤»
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07:46 dalek roast: fe36f26 | sorear++ | S14-roles/lexical.t:
07:46 dalek roast: [S14-roles/lexical] Track Stringy/gist changes
07:46 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/fe36f26005
07:46 dalek niecza: aac37c0 | sorear++ | src/niecza:
07:46 dalek niecza: Support accessing private methods/attributes in roles
07:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/aac37c0ed9
07:46 dalek niecza: 50e7f15 | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
07:46 dalek niecza: First batch of role tests!
07:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/50e7f15487
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08:37 dalek niecza: cd7e924 | sorear++ | lib/Kernel.cs:
08:37 dalek niecza: Implement diamond role composition
08:37 dalek niecza:
08:37 dalek niecza: This is actually slightly wrong, as it allows different instantiations of
08:37 dalek niecza: a parametrized role to not conflict.  Also, attribute diamonding is still
08:37 dalek niecza: considered an error.
08:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/cd7e924575
08:37 dalek niecza: 918bb3d | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
08:37 dalek niecza: Allow punning in "is" target
08:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/918bb3d05c
08:37 dalek niecza: 4446002 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
08:37 dalek niecza: Compute role_typecheck_list a bit earlier; add S14-roles/composition.t
08:37 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4446002c85
08:38 kshannon Damn!  The loop { 1 + 1 } rakudo memleak has nothing to do with the perl loop at all.  A tight loop with Q:PIR just boxing ints also leaks like crazy...
08:39 kshannon Except as far as I can tell,  it's not leaking PMC's
08:40 kshannon I think there's something screwy with the libtommath library (or how rakudo is using it)
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08:46 dalek niecza: dd7ae96 | sorear++ | / (3 files):
08:46 dalek niecza: Allow stubs in roles to be satisfied by inheritance
08:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/dd7ae96af9
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08:50 dalek niecza: e0c6040 | sorear++ | t/spectest.data:
08:50 dalek niecza: Two more working test files
08:50 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/e0c6040c4b
08:50 * sorear -> sleep
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09:35 masak "morning", #perl6
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09:39 moritz std: "morning", #perl6
09:39 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 121m␤»
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09:42 masak ;)
09:44 muixirt moritz: hopefully you didn't take my tweet as real criticism :-)
09:46 muixirt kshannon: which Q:PIR code?
09:47 moritz muixirt: no, I recognized it as sarcasm; hope you did the same with my reply :-)
09:59 kshannon muixirt: Q:PIR { $I100 = 2 \n loop: \n $P100 = perl6_box_int $I100 \n goto loop \n }
10:00 kshannon It gobbles memory until it dies.
10:03 moritz so that means that the deallocation of the mp_int is likely broken
10:04 muixirt kshannon: thanks - and yes it eats up memory really fast :-)
10:07 kshannon The code for mp_int de-allocation looks fine, but I'm trying to trace it now with a debugger
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10:11 masak <sorear> I don't think this counts as miracles... it's generally been easier than I expected
10:12 masak ...which is why sorear++ is the closest thing we have to au++ these days :)
10:12 masak sorear: now you just need to start IRC-ing from the shower, and stuff :P
10:14 moritz kshannon: then maybe it's the deallocation of embedded reprs or something
10:16 masak interesting discussion about number parsing and constant folding this morning.
10:22 masak wow, and roles in Niecza!
10:22 flussence niecza: say "\to/".indent(8);
10:22 p6eval niecza v13-121-ge0c6040: OUTPUT«                o/␤»
10:26 moritz nom: say 'a'.indent(3)
10:26 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«Method 'indent' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/a2F5i4KbJ5:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/a2F5i4KbJ5:1␤»
10:34 tadzik oh hello
10:34 masak tadzik! \o/
10:35 tadzik \o/
10:35 moritz \o tadzik. Please remember to submit a talk to GPW2012
10:35 tadzik oh, should I?
10:35 moritz of course. You plan to addend the workshop, don't you?
10:36 tadzik yeah, but I didn't plan to be a speaker :)
10:36 moritz why not? nothing interesting to tell? :-)
10:36 tadzik I could tell about our module ecosystem
10:36 * moritz would love to hear that
10:36 moritz http://conferences.yapceurope.org/gpw2012/newtalk
10:37 tadzik okay, call me convinced
10:37 masak of course you should be a speaker. :)
10:37 tadzik hah, that'd be in english, so one talk I'll understand :P
10:44 masak ;)
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10:49 tadzik https://gist.github.com/1564699
10:49 tadzik what do you think?
10:50 masak nice. tadzik++
10:50 masak is it "on Christmas" or "after Christmas"?
10:51 tadzik masak: hopefully it's "before Christmas" :)
10:51 tadzik maybe before'd be better here
10:52 masak I increasingly think that this whole "Christmas" thing (in relation to Perl 6, that is) basically constitutes the only kind of lies-to-children that can get through using the narrow bandwidth to outsiders.
10:52 tadzik by. by Cristmas
10:53 masak "Christmas is already here, it's just unevenly distributed" -- masak
10:53 masak tadzik: yes, "by" is fine.
10:53 tadzik ok, submitted
10:53 moritz tadzik++
10:53 tadzik http://conferences.yapceur​ope.org/gpw2012/talk/3965
10:54 tadzik moritz++ and masak++ for pushing me to it ;)
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10:54 masak "I'm not inclined to do any tobogganing, but will if pushed." :D
10:55 masak tadzik: getting a 404 on that link, so maybe it's just visible to you so far.
10:55 tadzik ah, true
10:55 * moritz can see it, being on the program committee
10:56 masak tadzik: did you add a 蝶 tag? :)
10:56 tadzik I guess it means "Panda" :P
10:56 masak no, it's the tag usually added to Perl 6 talks. it means "butterfly".
10:56 tadzik phenny: "蝶"?
10:56 phenny tadzik: "Butterfly" (zh-CN to en, translate.google.com)
10:56 tadzik oh
10:57 masak .u 蝶
10:57 phenny U+8776 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-8776 (蝶)
10:57 tadzik add'd
10:57 masak \o/
10:57 * masak glad'd
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12:05 masak short but interesting; procedural vs declarative: http://www.tombatron.com/permalink/ag10b21iY​XRyb25ibG9nchYLEg5CbG9nRW50cnlNb2RlbBjXnwMM
12:05 masak and its reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comment​s/o15fj/using_linq_for_more_readable_code/
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12:07 masak "I'm really glad Linq is introducing a whole slew of C# developers to the beauty of functional programming. If you tell people to go learn Haskell or F# they start kicking and screaming, but if you sneak it in as Linq it's nothing but love. :)" -- this is what I've been observing as well :)
12:07 masak and I think something similar could be done with other fields, such as grammars.
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12:20 daxim "[…] We managed to drag a lot of them about halfway to Lisp."
12:30 flussence I spent an hour trying to learn Lisp the other day to fix someone else's problem. Seems like I'm no good at languages without semicolons
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12:39 daxim find a local functional programming user group, it's great fun
12:41 [Coke] niecza: say 16747 / 18417 # assuming no change on rakudo's side.
12:41 p6eval niecza v13-121-ge0c6040: OUTPUT«0.90932290818265737␤»
12:41 [Coke] almost 91%.
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12:45 moritz not much changed in rakudo.
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12:56 dalek niecza: eee10fb | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
12:56 dalek niecza: The subs keys and values make sense for many scalar types and arrays too, so don't force them to use hashes.
12:56 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/eee10fb8c2
12:57 colomon [Coke]: I suspect you might find amazing things today if you ran autounfudge on niecza.  ;)
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13:10 moritz somehow autounfudge says that lots of niecza tests fail
13:13 kshannon rakudo P6opaque gc_free wasn't running gc_cleanup of nested slots...
13:13 kshannon compiling now.  I think this should fix the leak.
13:13 moritz oops.
13:16 masak Google Go has an interesting alternative to subtyping, which it calls "embedding". in made-up Perl 6 syntax it would look something like this: 'class ReaderWriter { has Reader; has Writer }' -- and all the methods on Reader and Writer are automatically provided as delegating methods on a ReaderWriter object.
13:21 moritz what about conflicts?
13:21 [Coke] colomon: kicked off an unfudge run.
13:23 masak moritz: outlawed, checked at compose time.
13:24 masak moritz: interfaces can also be embedded into other interfaces. the same rule holds there; only disjunct methods are allowed.
13:32 [Coke] niecza: Bool.pick.say
13:32 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
13:32 colomon niecza: say 1, 2, 3 .... 10, 20, 30 ... 100
13:32 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Bogus term at /tmp/ay031PV5mj line 1:�------> [32msay 1, 2, 3 ...[33m�[31m. 10, 20, 30 ... 100[0m��Parse failed��»
13:32 [Coke] colomon: so far, only one skip->todo.
13:39 moritz masak: that's basically what   role ReaderWriter does Reader does Writer { }  does then
13:39 masak niecza: say 1, 2, 3 ... 10, 20, 30 ... 100
13:39 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100␤»
13:40 masak moritz: no; it actually is delegation. the ReaderWriter struct actually contains (pointers to) Reader and Writer structs, and methods calls on the former translate into delegated method calls where the invocant is the latter.
13:41 masak but if we're talking about end results; yeah, about the same.
13:41 moritz masak: but does that really matter? it gives ReaderWriter the methods of Reader and Writer, and ... (too slow)
13:41 moritz ok
13:42 kshannon And no more memory leak: ./perl6 -e 'loop { 1 + 1 }'
13:42 kshannon \o/
13:43 flussence kshannon++
13:43 kshannon OK,  just run the spectests and then hopefully push...
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13:43 flussence (wonder if that'll have any effect on the big core setting compilation)
13:44 masak kshannon++
13:44 masak flussence: probably not; we don't do much of 'loop { 1 + 1 }' while compiling CORE :P
13:45 flussence yeah, but there's got to be some numbers in there somewhere :)
13:45 moritz flussence: yes, but most numbers in there are parrot numbers, not Int
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13:45 moritz hm, oh wait, that's wrong
13:54 dalek nqp: 11d4870 | kshannon++ | src/6model/reprs/P6opaque.c:
13:54 dalek nqp: Fix nasty memory leak in P6opaque
13:54 dalek nqp:
13:54 dalek nqp: We have a list of gc_cleanup_slots.
13:54 dalek nqp: We should be using them :)
13:54 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/11d487038f
13:54 dalek nqp: 05a89ef | kshannon++ | src/6model/reprs/P6opaque.c:
13:54 dalek nqp: Expand tabs while I'm here
13:54 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/05a89efb6c
13:54 kshannon Well,  that was a fun way to spend a Thursday.
13:54 * muixirt is looking forward to a blog post describing how kshannon hunted down the bug
13:55 [Coke] kshannon++ !
13:56 moritz kshannon: btw if you want a rakudo commit bit, you need to sign a CLA: http://www.perlfoundation.org/​contributor_license_agreement (and get +1s from rakudo core developers, but that won't be a problem)
13:56 moritz afk
13:57 PerlJam nqp didn't require a CLA?
14:00 [Coke] colomon: not many autounfudges, but a few.
14:00 muixirt am I simply wrong or is debugging rakudo more difficult than ordinary programs written in c/c++ because of multiple separate components/languages like parrot, nqp, perl6 and heavily macroized C?
14:01 masak muixirt: I generally don't suffer from the multiple levels when debugging a Perl 6 program.
14:01 geekosaur more difficult than *simple* programs in C/C++.  start using various libraries/frameworks and you end up with the same problem
14:02 geekosaur ...often worse because C/C++ tends to be kinda weak with the type hints, whose usual diagnostic is a core dump
14:02 * masak decommutes
14:02 PerlJam muixirt: I'd say you're right, but only if you know something about one of those technologies and virtually nothing about one or more of the others.
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14:02 geekosaur (worse, a core dump with smashed memory that can't be deciphered...)
14:03 [Coke] colomon: argh. seem to have missed your most recent commit in my unfudge.
14:10 kshannon muixirt: most of my rakudo debugging happens at the perl6 and nqp levels,  and I find it not too much harder than debugging perl5 stuff.
14:11 kshannon The biggest problem I had debugging that memory leak was the damn 6model.
14:11 [Coke] kshannon: I'm so glad you didn't say "parrot". ;)
14:13 muixirt kshannon: I admire your capabilities though :-)
14:13 kshannon When you're in GDB and you've just got a pointer to a SixModelObject PMC, it's really difficult to work out what it actually is (without risking an exception being thrown)
14:14 kshannon I think "perseverence" might be a better adjective :)
14:15 kshannon I came close to giving up quite a few times today.
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14:16 kshannon Now I'm off to see if some of those memory hogs from autounfudge were actually because of this memory leak...
14:17 muixirt I admire perseverance, momentarily I read the Baumeister/Tierney book on willpower which is somewhat related to that (if I ever it till the end)
14:25 moritz kshannon: you just missed a chance for a good pun in the nqp commit message. Something like "free the Ints!" or so :-)
14:27 kshannon lol
14:33 muixirt moritz: it's not only Int objects, right?
14:33 moritz muixirt: correct. That's why we can have multi-line commit messages
14:35 muixirt moritz: ?
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14:37 moritz muixirt: to put the pun on the first line, and the technical explanation on the next
14:38 muixirt my fault, I thought the leaking was only an issue with (big)Ints, but kshannon fix suggests it's more general
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14:53 flussence /usr/bin/time's output doesn't make sense to me :/
14:54 flussence "3313664maxresident" from compiling rakudo, but that's clearly wrong
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14:59 kshannon muixirt: Well the fix IS more general, but the only place in the current code which was affected was class Int - which add a P6bigint private attribute ($!value)
15:07 dalek roast: 0faae07 | kshannon++ | S05-modifier/pos.t:
15:07 dalek roast: Sort of revert 3d83f032
15:07 dalek roast:
15:07 dalek roast: The reason the $/ = Any lines were there was to
15:07 dalek roast: reinitialize the match object.
15:07 dalek roast:
15:07 dalek roast: The correct way to that according to current Spec
15:07 dalek roast: is assign Nil,  but not everyone supports that yet.
15:07 dalek roast:
15:07 dalek roast: Use a lexical instead.
15:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/0faae075ec
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15:21 [Coke] niecza: Bool.pick(20).say
15:21 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
15:21 [Coke] niecza: Bool.roll(20).say
15:22 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 894 (warn @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 175 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
15:22 [Coke] niecza: Bool.pick.say
15:22 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Bool()␤»
15:22 colomon I think we need special overloaded versions of Bool.pick and Bool.roll
15:23 colomon LHF
15:23 * [Coke] wonders why he's the only one seeing failures in t/spec/S04-phasers/ascending-order.t
15:24 colomon niecza: my Positional $a;
15:24 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  $a is declared but not used at /tmp/BnFfYzywLA line 1:â�¤------> [32mmy Positional [33mâ��[31m$a;[0mâ�¤â�¤Â»
15:24 colomon niecza: my Positional $a; say $a ~~ Positional
15:24 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
15:27 tokuhirom joined #perl6
15:27 dalek roast: 3da8417 | coke++ | S (11 files):
15:27 dalek roast: niecza (auto)unfudge
15:27 dalek roast:
15:27 dalek roast: add noauto markers to some dubious test skips we don't want to todo-ify
15:27 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3da84179f2
15:30 kaleem joined #perl6
15:32 [Coke] colomon: can you verify that ascending-order.t is passing for you? (all 8 tests) ?
15:32 colomon yes, it works fine
15:33 [Coke] just double checking that it's 8 passing, and not 6. ;)
15:33 colomon there is one weird thing ... there's a #FUDGED! line by itself before the last two test pass messages
15:34 colomon no sign that the neighboring tests are fudged
15:34 [Coke] that's because the last 2 tests are run from inside an END block.
15:34 [Coke] for you, anyway. for me, they are not run.
15:34 * [Coke] ponders a mono upgrade.
15:42 overrosy joined #perl6
15:44 [Coke] niecza: https://gist.github.com/1565776
15:44 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«ok 1 - eek␤»
15:44 [Coke] locally that prints nothing.
15:44 [Coke] if I comment out the exit(1), works fine.
15:45 jerome_ joined #perl6
15:48 skids joined #perl6
15:55 dalek roast: 557c154 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S0 (3 files):
15:55 dalek roast: Unfudge / refudge for niecza, now that it has Positional and Associative.
15:55 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/557c154c46
15:56 [Coke] colomon: those were not caught by unfudge. hurm.
15:56 colomon hurm indeed
15:58 skids perl6: say kv 'AA' ~~ / <letter=.alpha>+ || <number=.digit>+ /;
15:59 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«letter #<match from(0) to(1) text(A) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> #<match from(1) to(2) text(A) pos([].list) named({}.hash)> number ␤»
15:59 p6eval ..rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«letter A A number ␤»
15:59 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.​13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
16:00 skids In rakudo's output, should "number" exist as an empty array, or just be nonpresent?
16:02 jerome_ joined #perl6
16:03 xinming joined #perl6
16:08 kshannon empty array
16:08 kshannon like niecza also does
16:09 skids Is there a syntax to suppress that?
16:10 cognominal nom: say (1, (2, 3, 4)).list.perl
16:10 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«(1, (2, 3, 4)).list␤»
16:10 PerlJam skids: only output the keys with associated values?
16:10 skids (Also I don't understand why, given || should short-circuit)
16:10 cognominal nom: say $_.perl for (1, (2, 3, 4)).list
16:10 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
16:11 cognominal nom: say $_.perl for (1, (2, 3, 4))
16:11 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤»
16:12 cognominal is "for" supposed to flatten a parcel?
16:12 daxim http://science.slashdot.org/commen​ts.pl?sid=2605580&amp;cid=38596938
16:12 skids PerlJam: I'm more thinking of representational efficiency, not how to post-process.
16:12 PerlJam oh
16:14 cognominal …or for is parcelly wrong, so partially right?
16:14 geekosaur I thought most stuff autoflattened parcels
16:15 cognominal so how to iterate on the?
16:15 Mowah joined #perl6
16:15 cognominal *them
16:15 masak daxim: unlike with Perl 6, where the script is sent to the secret cabal for review and inspection ;)
16:16 cognominal … and eventually masaked? (ie:  submitted as a bug)
16:17 cognominal masak: any idea about parcels and iteration?
16:17 PerlJam Did you just verb masak?
16:17 * masak .oO( anything can be masak'd! )
16:18 masak cognominal: yes, I think parcels are pretty flat already.
16:18 masak it's not so much the for loop as parcels not being very array-y in the first place.
16:21 cognominal masak:  S02:4616 proposes a .tree operator. To implement it means some sort of non flattening iterator
16:23 * masak looks
16:25 masak hm, that doesn't tell me much.
16:25 masak here's what I know about for loops:
16:26 [Coke] niecza: say 16768 / 18418
16:26 masak if you use a variable with a '@' (or a '%'), it will flatten into elements (or pairs)
16:26 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«0.91041372570311652␤»
16:26 masak if you use something like .list at the end, it will also flatten.
16:27 [Coke] niecza: say 18418*.92-16768
16:27 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«176.56␤»
16:27 masak if you do neither, and just say something like 'for $list-in-a-scalar { ... }', it won't flatten.
16:29 cognominal nom:  say (eager (1, (2, 3, 4))).perl
16:29 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4).list␤»
16:31 cognominal the code of "for" use eager. This begs the question: is eager supposed to flatten things.
16:31 cognominal niecza:  say (eager (1, (2, 3, 4))).perl
16:31 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Undeclared routine:â�¤    'eager' used at line 1â�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 919 (die @ 2) â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1143 (P6.comp_unit @ 32) â�¤  at /ho…
16:32 s1n joined #perl6
16:33 [Coke] colomon: any progress on .fmt?
16:34 colomon [Coke]: I backed off all my changes in the faces of the onslaught of major updates last night.  I'll take another stab at it as soon as I've sorted my current $work bug.
16:35 Trashlord joined #perl6
16:35 [Coke] \o/
16:35 [Coke] only 177 bugs (less, even!) to get to the next percentage point. ;)
16:36 cognominal SO2: This operator [eager] is agnostic towards flattening or slicing.
16:36 PerlJam colomon: re eager:  ... blah you beat me to it
16:37 PerlJam S02:4676  (for the irclogs)
16:37 cognominal method eager() { nqp::p6list(nqp::list(self), List, Bool::True).eager }  # so Bool::True should be Mu
16:37 PerlJam er, ... s/colomon/sognominal/ too
16:38 [Coke] whatever happened to grok?
16:38 [Coke] (be nice if we had a grokbot in here.)
16:38 masak [Coke]: the program is alive and well on CPAN.
16:38 masak literal++
16:39 cognominal joined #perl6
16:40 [Coke] this is merely an observation: wow, grok has a lot of deps.
16:41 PerlJam That's code reuse for you!
16:43 [Coke] is hinrik about?
16:45 literal hi
16:45 literal I could whip up a bot
16:45 sayu joined #perl6
16:48 masak \o/
16:51 cognominal replacing  Bool::True by Mu  introduces other problems.     say (eager 1).perl   gives   ((1,),).list
16:51 * [Coke] reports a grokbug
16:52 [Coke] literal: looks like you'll need to run "grok -U" whenever a spec change occurs.
16:52 [Coke] but then: https://rt.cpan.org/Public​/Bug/Display.html?id=73768
16:55 cognominal_ joined #perl6
16:55 * [Coke] hurls http://www.omniglot.com/, delaying perl6 for another month.
16:58 sayu joined #perl6
16:58 literal [Coke]: noted
16:59 masak omniglot is nice.
17:07 masak perl6: class A { has $!a; method set { $!a = 42 }; method get { $!a } }; my $a = A.new; $a.set; my $b = $a.clone; say $a.get; say $b.get
17:08 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method clone in class A␤  at /tmp/akXMJjyxbW line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2748 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 2749 (module-CORE @ 58) ␤  at /home/p…
17:08 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«42␤42␤»
17:08 masak makes sense, I guess.
17:09 mls joined #perl6
17:13 MayDaniel joined #perl6
17:15 masak another reason I don't like the current .gist factoring:
17:16 masak saying "just implement the Str method" to someone sounds great.
17:16 masak saying "just implement the gist method" doesn't quite have the same mnemonic ring to it.
17:17 [Coke] perhaps .gist should default to .Str
17:18 masak maybe.
17:18 * masak .oO( my god, it's full of delegations! )
17:19 masak nom: class C { method Str { "OH HAI" } }; say C.new
17:19 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«C.new()␤»
17:19 masak nom: class C { method Str { "OH HAI" } }; say ~C.new
17:19 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
17:20 masak hm :)
17:20 jnthn evening, #perl6
17:20 * jnthn is back home, and that means back in front of his comfy dev machine. :)
17:21 masak jnthn! \o/
17:22 colomon \o/
17:22 icwiener joined #perl6
17:25 * jnthn pulls latest Rakudo
17:27 PerlJam jnthn: kshannon++ fixed that loop memory leak!
17:27 jnthn yay!!!
17:27 * jnthn sees he has patches to review :D
17:30 colomon niecza: say sprintf("%f", 5.6)
17:31 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«??␤»
17:31 colomon niecza: say sprintf("%f", 5.6.Num)
17:31 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«??␤»
17:31 colomon perl6: say sprintf("%f", 5.6.Num)
17:31 p6eval rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«5.600000␤»
17:31 p6eval ..niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«??␤»
17:31 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Rat: "&Num"␤    at /tmp/Kq_9pwJNP8 line 1, column 19-26␤»
17:33 [Coke] colomon: OH NOES, jnthn is back.
17:34 masak mwhahaha!
17:34 masak jnthn: look, you're in dire need here. something completely horrible was about to happen.
17:35 masak team Niecza are certainly asserting themselves.
17:35 * [Coke] ponders sorear and colomon dressed up in Team Rocket garb.
17:35 jnthn [Coke]: Well, I can go back to resting... :)
17:35 [Coke] ;)
17:36 PerlJam If we can get a big Perl 6 release for 12/21/2012 we can have a story about how the Mayans predicted Perl 6
17:36 masak oh wow oh wow
17:37 masak "it's happening: the Perl 6 Christmas is finally here" *curtain*
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: 80ec2c1 | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: free the Ints!
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom:
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: bump to a NQP revision that garbage-collects embedded REPRs,
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: and thus fixes a memory leak in Int (and probably other objects)
17:38 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/80ec2c11e1
17:42 TimToady niecza: my @a = ($_ for 1..10); say @a;
17:42 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«␤»
17:42 TimToady I thought that worked in niecza once upon a time...am I hallucinating?
17:43 [Coke] we could bisect it if you really wanted.
17:43 masak TimToady: it's certainly been broken before.
17:44 TimToady nom: my @a = ($_ for 1..10); say @a;
17:44 p6eval nom 1c74c7: OUTPUT«1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
17:44 TimToady I might just be remembering nom...
17:44 jnthn o/ TimToady
17:45 TimToady o/!
17:45 jnthn I used Christmas break as...a break! :)
17:45 unobe joined #perl6
17:46 Trashlord joined #perl6
17:46 sorear good * #perl6
17:47 [Coke] ho, sorear.
17:48 mux left #perl6
17:48 [Coke] niecza: https://gist.github.com/1565776
17:48 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«ok 1 - eek␤»
17:48 [Coke] (that outputs nothing for me locally.)
17:49 masak sorear! \o/
17:50 masak [Coke]: maybe your machine is so fast it finishes before END has a chance to run! :P
17:51 [Coke] *snrk*.
17:52 [Coke] it's feather, so I doubt that. ;)
17:52 masak ;)
17:52 masak perl6: my %h; my @keys = <a b c d>; %h{@keys} = 42 xx *; say %h.perl
17:52 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«{"a" => 42, "b" => 42, "c" => 42, "d" => 42}.hash␤»
17:52 p6eval ..rakudo 1c74c7: OUTPUT«("a" => 42, "b" => 42, "c" => 42, "d" => 42).hash␤»
17:52 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«{("a" => 42), ("b" => 42), ("c" => 42), ("d" => 42)}␤»
17:52 masak \o/
17:54 sorear EOBACKLOG
17:55 masak here, have some more :P
17:55 * geekosaur loves how everyone's got a different syntax there
17:55 sorear jnthn: do you understand yet what's causing the nom regressions in S14-roles/conflicts.t ?
17:56 sorear jnthn: I found the underlying bug, btw.  I'm also wondering if you have a fix in the pipeline I can steal :)
17:57 jnthn sorear: Not sure off hand.
17:57 jnthn sorear: Though if I looked at the failure mode I could probably get to what's going on fairly quickly.
17:59 Mowah joined #perl6
17:59 sorear jnthn: What's going on is that $foo.Role::method is turning into Role.find_method("method")($foo), which ... throws away $foo and substitutes a fresh pun for the invocantr
17:59 jnthn ah
18:00 jnthn OK, will take a look in a bit.
18:00 * jnthn needs to ease himself back into things :)
18:00 sorear Anyways I stole this bug for niecza
18:00 jnthn You're...welcome? ;)
18:01 dalek rakudo/nom: 07374c2 | jnthn++ | src/core/Grammar.pm:
18:01 dalek rakudo/nom: Grammar.parse and Grammar.parsefile should set $/. Resolves RT#107236.
18:01 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/07374c2eea
18:01 jnthn Well, lets me tag it testneeded anyway...
18:03 masak nom: my @a = 1..5; my @b = 0 xx +@a; say @b.perl
18:03 p6eval nom 80ec2c: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, 0, 0, 0, 0)␤»
18:04 masak nom: my @a = 1..5; my @b = 0 xx @a
18:04 p6eval nom 80ec2c:  ( no output )
18:04 masak nom: my @a = 1..5; my @b = 0 xx @a; say @b.perl
18:04 p6eval nom 80ec2c: OUTPUT«Array.new(0, 0, 0, 0, 0)␤»
18:04 masak clearly my nom is too old :)
18:05 TimToady sorear: did list comprehensions ever work in niecza?
18:06 masak and does Niecza have a red cell in the feature matrix where list comprehensions ought to be?
18:07 TimToady there's no entry in the feature matrix for that
18:08 sorear TimToady: there's code for them, but I can't remember if it ever worked
18:09 sorear [Coke]: I can reproduce the ascending-order.t issue if I ssh to feather and use your copy of niecza
18:10 sorear I cannot reproduce the issue if I compile locally, scp the bytecode to feather, and run it there with your mono
18:11 [Coke] odd. One thing I did earlier was git bisect something, just doing a make (not a clean) after each step.
18:11 [Coke] perhaps a clean, rebuild and try agian?
18:14 [Coke] trying that...
18:15 [Coke] nope. "make clean; make; t/fudge...." still doesn't show the last 2. Anything other suggestions?
18:17 [Coke] (trying realclean)
18:18 thou_ joined #perl6
18:18 groky joined #perl6
18:19 literal groky: %
18:19 groky "%"   Does a floating point modulo operation, i.e. 5.5 % 1 == 0.5 and 5 % 2.5 == 0.
18:19 literal groky: split
18:19 groky "split"   Splits a string up into pieces based on delimiters found in the string. String delimiters must not be treated as rules but as constants. The default is no longer ' ' since that would be interpreted as a constant. P5's "split(' ')" will translate to "comb". Null trailing fields are no longer trimmed by default. The "split" function no longer has a default delimiter nor a default invocant…
18:19 sorear groky: FatRat
18:19 groky "FatRat"   (immutable type) - Perl rational (unlimited precision in both parts)
18:21 sorear [Coke]: I'd like to do some more tests once the realclean/rebuild is done.
18:21 sorear literal: is it using the tablets?
18:21 literal yes
18:21 literal this is the source: https://gist.github.com/1566480
18:22 dalek grok: 4f6e90a | hinrik++ | / (2 files):
18:22 dalek grok: Update spec document urls
18:22 dalek grok: review: https://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/4f6e90a426
18:22 dalek grok: 0e0cba1 | hinrik++ | Changes:
18:22 dalek grok: v0.26
18:22 dalek grok:
18:22 dalek grok:     - Update spec document urls
18:22 dalek grok: review: https://github.com/hinrik/grok/commit/0e0cba198e
18:23 colomon niecza: my %h = 1 => 'A'; say %h.pairs[0].WHAT
18:23 p6eval niecza v13-122-geee10fb: OUTPUT«Pair()␤»
18:25 mkramer joined #perl6
18:26 TimToady groky: *
18:26 groky "*"   (numeric op) - multiplies numbers, forces numeric context (term) - synonym for Whatever, for example, means Inf in a range operator (..); means the end of an array in a slice operator so that negative indices access array elements relative to one beyond the final element - prefix which indicates slurpy arrays in signatures (twigil) - twigil of global variables
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 9afb9c3 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Handle sub foo(SomeConstant) { ... } correctly. Fixes the True/False case - well, kinda. Thing is, we smart-match the argument against SomeConstant, and of course $x ~~ True always comes out true... :S
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/9afb9c3633
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: 44ccd39 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ParametricRoleGroupHOW.pm:
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix boolification of roles; resolves issue in RT##107336.
18:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/44ccd39fea
18:27 sorear How long ago was the $+FOO / $*FOO merger?
18:27 sorear welcome back, jnthn :D
18:27 masak sorear: 2009-ish, I think.
18:28 masak sorear: ISTR ruoso suggested it to TimToady.
18:29 [Coke] realclean, rebuild, rerun... same behavior. only 1..6 show.
18:29 masak sorear: aye, Nov 20 2009, spec commit dff23644d71abbcfa3d0880eac00b4106ad72330
18:29 jnthn sorear: :)
18:29 jnthn OK, I did some commits, now I can have dinner :)
18:30 jnthn er...which depends on shopping. bbs :)
18:30 dalek roast: e0e8870 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S02-names-vars/fmt.t:
18:30 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
18:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/e0e8870202
18:30 flussence .oO( this is going to be a good month )
18:34 [Coke] oh, literal IS hinrik! hio.
18:34 [Coke] sorry if I completely missed that earlier!
18:35 kaleem joined #perl6
18:36 * masak .oO( they're literally the same person )
18:36 [Coke] :P
18:38 sorear [Coke]: update: the problem is that your copy of t/fudgeandrun is adding exit(1), but mine isn'
18:38 sorear t.  WTF
18:38 tadzik good evening \o/
18:41 masak sorear: hm, now I'm thinking that commit's not it and that the change happened earlier than that.
18:42 fridim_ joined #perl6
18:42 dalek niecza: a037edd | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
18:42 dalek niecza: Port over .fmt from Rakudo ng.
18:42 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a037edd1a0
18:42 dalek niecza: c4341fe | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
18:42 dalek niecza: Turn on S02-names-vars/fmt.t.
18:42 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/c4341fe07c
18:43 baest joined #perl6
18:44 colomon [Coke]: there you go
18:44 sorear [Coke]: if I manually add exit(1) to *.niecza AND run with mono 2.6, I can reproduce this on localhost \o/
18:45 sorear I don't know what's up with your copy of fudge but I can at least work around the bug in niecza now
18:48 [Coke] my copy of fudge is in t/spec.
18:49 [Coke] no changes there. weird.
18:50 [Coke] but thank you for tracking it down. ;)
18:50 [Coke] colomon: oooh, shiny.
18:52 integral joined #perl6
18:52 integral joined #perl6
18:56 sorear [Coke]: wait, are you seeing these errors with test_summary or with fudgeandrun?
18:56 kaare_ joined #perl6
18:56 cj joined #perl6
18:57 dalek niecza: 220b37b | sorear++ | lib/ (3 files):
18:57 cj /win 6
18:57 dalek niecza: Work around failure to run END blocks after exit(1) on Mono 2.6.x
18:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/220b37b667
18:57 sorear hello cj
18:57 cj howdy sorear
18:57 baest joined #perl6
18:57 cj anything new happin'in' around here?
18:57 cj OMG!  perl6 on Mono!?
18:57 cj sorear: did you do that?
18:57 cj sorear++
18:57 cj sorear: you're my new hero.
18:58 cj can you run perl5 on perl6 on mono?
18:58 sorear yeah.  I've actually been on this project since Jun2010 or so
18:58 sorear sadly, no perl5 support yet
18:58 masak we'll get there.
18:58 cj me since 2008, but I've been on leave.
18:58 sorear I hear fglock's perlito can run perl5 in Javascript
18:58 masak even if it means we'll have to re-implement Perl 5! :)
18:59 cj :)
19:02 tadzik hey, there isn't any?
19:02 tadzik I think pmurias implemented some, in form of eval( :from<perl5>)
19:02 tadzik maybe it's in a branch
19:03 sorear I don't think that counts as "on mono"
19:03 tadzik I see what you mean
19:06 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:10 kaare_ joined #perl6
19:11 [Coke] sorear: both.
19:12 [Coke] that's why https://gist.github.com/1476841 has ~4 failures for a while.
19:12 [Coke] (that's test_summary.pl output)
19:12 sorear [Coke]: latest change should improve things
19:13 sorear it looks like fudge will keep the fudged output if it's newer than the input ... even if the arguments have changed
19:13 sorear so t/fudgeandrun is seeing the exit(1) because test_summary doesn't use --keep-exit-code
19:15 dalek roast: 4e00888 | coke++ | S (2 files):
19:15 dalek roast: niecza unfudge for fmt
19:15 dalek roast:
19:15 dalek roast: (colomon++)
19:15 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/4e008882d1
19:15 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
19:15 [Coke] sorear: ARGLEBARG
19:15 [Coke] good catch.
19:15 [Coke] sorear++
19:21 colomon ARGLEBARG?
19:23 Psyche^ joined #perl6
19:25 masak sounds like a totally transparent frustrated injective of facepalming self-blame.
19:25 masak invective*
19:26 [Coke] well, except for the self bit. I didn't write fudge. ;)
19:26 [Coke] arglebarg will give decent enough search results. ;)(
19:26 [Coke] ;)
19:28 moritz http://arglebarg.deviantart.com/gallery/
19:29 hundskatt joined #perl6
19:33 masak in fact, "arglebarg" sounds like a word which could've occurred in h2g2, but didn't.
19:35 sorear it's fairly close to Agrajag, which did, though
19:35 colomon Agrajag!
19:36 dalek niecza: 4b5f174 | sorear++ | lib/Cursor.cs:
19:36 dalek niecza: Fix NRE with .caps and multiple same-named captures
19:36 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4b5f174920
19:36 [Coke] masak: that's certainly what went through my mind.
19:36 [Coke] (h2g2)
19:36 masak sorear: also, "gargleblaster"
19:37 dalek roast: 6d5743d | sorear++ | S05-capture/caps.t:
19:37 dalek roast: [S05-capture/caps] Fix isa_ok syntax
19:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6d5743d07c
19:37 dalek roast: b9dce46 | sorear++ | S05-capture/caps.t:
19:37 dalek roast: [S05-capture/caps] Niecza unfudge
19:37 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/b9dce460c0
19:37 sorear that file now has no fudges
19:38 spine joined #perl6
19:39 [Coke] sorear++: o/
19:39 Chillance joined #perl6
19:39 * [Coke] hits himself in the head with a brick wrapped in a lemon.
19:40 colomon just so it's not a lemon-soaked paper napkin...
19:41 geekosaur then join ##42?
19:41 * geekosaur doesnt know if there is such a channel...
19:43 Moukeddar joined #perl6
19:52 alim joined #perl6
19:52 kaare_ joined #perl6
19:53 sorear o/ Moukeddar
19:54 Moukeddar \o sorear
19:54 Moukeddar how are you doing?
19:55 sorear good
19:56 Moukeddar ^_^
19:56 tadzik hello Moukeddar
19:57 Moukeddar hi tadzik :D
19:59 masak Moukeddar! \o/
19:59 Moukeddar hey, i'm popular :D
19:59 Moukeddar where's mah limousine?
20:00 moritz you mean you lost it?
20:00 Moukeddar you sent one ?
20:01 tadzik one? Gosh, I hope you're kidding
20:01 Moukeddar i'm not kidding,the parking lot is empty O.o
20:01 tadzik I hope you mean the 4th floor of it
20:02 Moukeddar where did you park it guys ?
20:02 Moukeddar this isn't funny
20:03 masak last I saw it, someone had parked it behind your house...
20:03 masak ...in the swimming pool.
20:03 tadzik ...of strawberry juice
20:04 tadzik its antenna sticked out, though. The pool is not deep enough to completely cover 7 cars
20:04 Moukeddar weird, there's no pool in this area, are you sure?
20:05 tadzik it "this area" is less than 5 kms in diameter, you probably need to look *outside* of your living room
20:06 dalek niecza: 402391b | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
20:06 dalek niecza: Add working infix:<minmax>.
20:06 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/402391b861
20:06 moritz oh nice, I didn't know http://www.seebs.net/faqs/c-iaq.html
20:06 * Moukeddar is looking
20:07 dalek roast: 74c178e | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/minmax.t:
20:07 dalek roast: Unfudge tests that now work in niecza.
20:07 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/74c178e597
20:08 masak moritz: heh -- I found that one a few weeks back. :)
20:09 Chillance joined #perl6
20:10 tadzik hm, what's this 1.7?
20:10 tadzik foo, "hello, world!\n";
20:10 zby_home_ joined #perl6
20:11 tadzik and isn't 07 octal rather than hex?
20:11 masak not in Perl 6.
20:12 masak std: 07
20:12 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6; please use 0o7 if you mean that at /tmp/96_JAMM9Z9 line 1:â�¤------> [32m07[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤ok 00:01 118mâ�¤Â»
20:12 moritz tadzik: 07 is both octal and hex (and decimal)
20:12 tadzik heh, right
20:12 moritz std: 09
20:12 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:â�¤  Leading 0 does not indicate octal in Perl 6; please use 0o9 if you mean that at /tmp/CKkQtgKDZP line 1:â�¤------> [32m09[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤ok 00:01 118mâ�¤Â»
20:12 tadzik I don't think that faq is really accurate
20:12 moritz tadzik: it's meant as a joke
20:13 tadzik ah, that explains quite a lot :)
20:13 tadzik I wondered whether I should laugh, or it'd turn out to be disrespectful to some Well Known Person
20:14 moritz 19.21: Does anyone have a C compiler test suite I can use?
20:14 moritz Yes. Unfortunately, it's probably broken. It's hard to tell.
20:15 snearch joined #perl6
20:15 moritz somehow I feel with the author :-)
20:16 masak :P
20:17 Kharec joined #perl6
20:17 masak jnthn: re #107348 -- yes, I know. I should've perhaps stated that in the ticket as the expected behavior.
20:17 masak nom: sub foo(True) { say "OH HAI" }; foo False
20:17 p6eval nom 44ccd3: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
20:18 masak shortly before I registered that ticket, there was talk of making a meta-exception for True/False in signatures.
20:18 Kharec hi there
20:18 Kharec use v6; is completely like perl6?
20:19 moritz "use v6;" tells the compiler to throw an error if it doesn't think it can handle Perl 6
20:19 moritz like, perl 5
20:20 bigesttitty joined #perl6
20:20 moritz which means you get much better error messages if you accidentally use the wrong compiler
20:23 Kharec ok
20:24 colomon niecza: enum Ordering (Increase => -1, Same => 0, Decrease => 1);
20:24 p6eval niecza v13-127-g402391b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Compile time expression is insufficiently trivial CallSub at /tmp/enxafhpu6e line 1:�------> [32mncrease => -1, Same => 0, Decrease => 1)[33m�[31m;[0m��Enum may not contain both Int and Str values at /tmp/enxafhpu6e lin…
20:24 moritz setting compilation still uses 1.6g in rakudo :(
20:25 cooper joined #perl6
20:25 Kharec left #perl6
20:26 spine nice, the loop {1+1} bug is gone! but "my @a := (1..*).map({"a"x 10000}); while shift @a {};" is still leaking on current nom :(
20:26 spine is there a good reason nom doesn't free the shifted values?
20:26 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
20:26 ksi joined #perl6
20:29 moritz nom: my @a = do { while 1 { last if rand() > 0.9; 5 } }; say @a
20:29 p6eval nom 44ccd3: OUTPUT«1␤»
20:31 moritz spine: probably just bad reasons
20:31 y3llow_ joined #perl6
20:32 pothos_ joined #perl6
20:34 y3llow joined #perl6
20:35 pothos joined #perl6
20:36 y3llow joined #perl6
20:36 masak wow, I had forgotten what a great language Perl 6 is.
20:37 masak it's not just syntactic sugar; writing idiomatic Perl 6 actually makes me a happier, more beautiful person.
20:37 masak :P
20:37 PerlJam masak: if only there were macros ...   ;)
20:38 pothos joined #perl6
20:38 y3llow joined #perl6
20:38 masak PerlJam: I heard some schmuck got tasked with implementing macros, finally.
20:38 Kharec joined #perl6
20:39 Kharec perl6: my int $t = 6;
20:39 p6eval niecza v13-127-g402391b: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Malformed my at /tmp/WYePQ1lybE line 1:�------> [32mmy [33m�[31mint $t = 6;[0m��Parse failed��»
20:39 p6eval ..pugs b927740, rakudo 44ccd3:  ( no output )
20:39 moritz which reminds me, I should get back to exceptions one of these days...
20:39 jnthn :)
20:40 * jnthn needs to get back to Zavolaj, QRegex, QAST... :)
20:40 Kharec left #perl6
20:40 tadzik masak: haha, good luck to him, LOL!
20:40 PerlJam moritz: you're just following in the grand tradition of ever-open grants
20:40 japhb Which reminds me, now that jnthn's back, maybe it's time to try again for dispatching magic for Failure-outside-Any
20:40 jnthn ...and I should close off my grant. :)
20:40 moritz PerlJam: I didn't plan to :/
20:40 PerlJam no one does
20:40 jnthn japhb: Yes, I'm going to be relatively about. :)
20:40 japhb :-)
20:41 masak tadzik: LOL!
20:45 jnthn Would be nice to get some of the testneededs in Rakudo turned into resolveds too :)
20:46 * moritz gets weird brane knots while trying to think of setting names
20:46 moritz CORE is *outside* the user's program
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: 44556db | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix initializers for lexical declarations that shadow attribute aliases.
20:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/44556db1a0
20:46 moritz or formulated differently, it's surrounded by CORE
20:47 moritz so, if you have two settings, should the middle one be SHELL oder INNER_CORE?
20:47 moritz we should really name the default setting WORLD instead of CORE
20:48 moritz then we could expand in both directions (universe, multiverse and continent, country) and everybody would know how they nest
20:48 PerlJam CORE is the exocore and the user's program is the endocore  :)
20:49 PerlJam but, +1 to WORLD (or almost anything besides CORE since it's so overloaded)
20:50 masak sorry, "World" is taken... :/
20:50 moritz yes, but WORLD isn't :-)
20:50 moritz and we're case sensitive
20:50 masak CORE is just the name for a very common setting.
20:50 tadzik rename SAFE to wOrLd!
20:50 masak I don't like WORLD for many reasons.
20:51 mj41 joined #perl6
20:51 geekosaur give it some strange unicode-character name?
20:51 moritz rename SAFE to LOL-YOU-REALLY-THINK-IT'S-SAFE
20:51 masak but chief among those is that different things should look different. and WORLD has nothing to do with World.
20:51 flussence MANTLE
20:52 moritz masak: also I think that World is purely compiler-internal, and the user never sees it
20:52 kshannon o/ #perl6
20:52 jnthn o/ kshannon
20:52 PerlJam CORE is more like BLANKET
20:53 PerlJam (it covers you and keeps you warm)
20:55 masak :)
20:55 masak actually, I kinda like CORE.
20:55 moritz masak: any comments to my criticism above?
20:56 moritz speaking of settings... why doesn't SAFE.setting needs a YOU_ARE_HERE ?
20:57 masak moritz: the two-settings criticism? only that I'd require two actual settings to be able to say anything conclusive.
20:57 dalek roast: 9a74f7f | coke++ | S (4 files):
20:57 dalek roast: niecza fudge
20:57 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9a74f7feb3
20:57 dalek niecza: 0bb44b6 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
20:57 dalek niecza: run more tests
20:57 dalek niecza:
20:57 dalek niecza: S09-subscript/slice.t, S12-class/inheritance.t
20:57 dalek niecza: S03-smartmatch/disorganized.t, S12-introspection/can.t,
20:57 dalek niecza: S12-methods/private.t, S14-roles/conflicts.t
20:57 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0bb44b6cc7
20:57 moritz masak: not only that, but it's *outside* the user's program, not *inside*
20:58 tadzik jnthn: obtw, did you see the deterministic segfault?
21:00 dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 54 commits to nqp/qbootstrap by jnthn
21:00 kaleem joined #perl6
21:00 jnthn tadzik: The one ruoso++ RT'd?
21:00 masak moritz: well, it's the core *setting*, in that it forms the innermost setting.
21:00 tadzik jnthn: nope, the one in Bailador. Sorry, but gofing it makes the segfault go away :/
21:01 jnthn tadzik: OK, missed it. Instructions for reproducing it?
21:01 tadzik jnthn: I can give you an ssh account with a environment with a bug
21:01 jnthn ok
21:08 dalek niecza: 2363b26 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
21:08 dalek niecza: run S13-overloading/operators.t
21:08 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/2363b266e2
21:09 moritz $ ./perl6 -e 'say i'
21:09 moritz 0 + 1i
21:09 moritz \o/
21:09 moritz that works due to another setting in which I could write   my constant i = 1i;   without all the trouble that I got for that CORE
21:11 tadzik jnthn: okay, this will take a second, non-relocatable parrot strikes again :)
21:12 cognominal___ joined #perl6
21:12 [Coke] sorear++ colomon++; quite a few more tests enabled.
21:13 colomon [Coke]++
21:14 masak nom: sub MAIN(:$foo) {}
21:14 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤»
21:15 masak where do these warnings come from?
21:15 * masak submits rakudobug
21:15 moritz proably MAINHELPER or so
21:15 tadzik a-ha!
21:15 moritz masak: I think I've seen that one submitted already
21:15 masak moritz: URL?
21:15 moritz masak: looking...
21:16 moritz masak: https://rt.perl.org/rt3/Tic​ket/Display.html?id=107244
21:16 kaare_ joined #perl6
21:17 masak thanks. moritz++ [Coke]++
21:27 fridim_ joined #perl6
21:30 moritz perl6: while 1 { die "get me out of here"; CATCH { last } }; say "escaped!"
21:31 p6eval niecza v13-127-g402391b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
21:31 p6eval ..rakudo 44556d: OUTPUT«escaped!␤»
21:31 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** get me out of here␤    at /tmp/zSIwGr7zEV line 1, column 11-35␤»
21:32 masak :)
21:32 masak Pugs has clearly had it.
21:32 moritz well, I'm not sure
21:33 geekosaur pugs is missing a lot of stuff
21:34 moritz I don't know how violently CATCH should try to re-throw the exception
21:35 moritz perl6: sub f { die "OH NOEZ"; say "still there"; CATCH { return } }; f; say "alive"; # same problem, really
21:35 p6eval niecza v13-127-g402391b: OUTPUT«still there␤alive␤»
21:35 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** OH NOEZ␤    at /tmp/dabX_klSHh line 1, column 63-64␤       /tmp/dabX_klSHh line 1, column 9-22␤»
21:35 p6eval ..rakudo 44556d: OUTPUT«alive␤»
21:36 moritz nom: say nqp::p6box_i(pir::time)
21:36 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:The opcode 'time' (time<0>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤       in file '(file unknown)' line 40708237␤»…
21:36 masak why in the world does Niecza print "still there"?
21:36 moritz nom: say nqp::p6box_i(pir::time__P)
21:36 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤use of uninitialized value of type Mu in string context␤===SORRY!===␤error:imcc:The opcode 'time_p' (time<1>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments␤     in file '(file unknown)' line 44432509␤»…
21:37 moritz masak: I have no idea
21:37 jnthn nom: say nqp::p6box_i(pir::time__N)
21:37 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«1325796989␤»
21:38 moritz nom: say time - time
21:38 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«0␤»
21:40 jnthn nom: say nqp::p6box_n(pir::time__N)
21:40 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«1325797162.39153␤»
21:43 donri left #perl6
21:46 sorear masak: because return is dynamically scoped (bugoid) and it causes &die to return
21:46 dalek rakudo/nom: eccd5ee | jnthn++ | src/binder/container.c:
21:46 dalek rakudo/nom: Add a missing concreteness check (hopefully fixes a bug tadzik++ reported/helped me find).
21:46 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/eccd5ee1b5
21:47 moritz nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str where True, Str where True) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:47 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot do non-typename cases of type_constraint yet at line 1, near ", Str wher"␤»
21:48 moritz nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str where { True } , Str where { True }) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:48 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot do non-typename cases of type_constraint yet at line 1, near ", Str wher"␤»
21:48 moritz nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str $ where { True } , Str $ where { True }) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:48 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Circularity detected in multi sub types.␤»
21:48 moritz jnthn: we were quite confused by this one :-)
21:49 jnthn hey, so am I :)
21:51 moritz I guess nobody submitted it, so I should do that...
21:51 moritz nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str $ where 1 , Str $ where 1) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:51 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Circularity detected in multi sub types.␤»
21:51 moritz just trying to golf it a bit...
21:51 PerlJam masak moritz, masak it
21:51 moritz nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str $ where 1 , Str $ where 1) { };
21:51 * PerlJam tries out the verb again
21:51 p6eval nom 44556d:  ( no output )
21:52 jnthn nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str $, Str $) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:52 p6eval nom 44556d:  ( no output )
21:52 * masak it!
21:52 jnthn nom: multi sub infix:<+>(Str $ where 1, Str $) { }; 'a' + 'a'
21:52 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Circularity detected in multi sub types.␤»
21:52 jnthn jfmi
21:53 jnthn moritz: Well, seems only one arg needs the where :)
21:53 masak jnthn: *that's* what I shoulda called my blog :P
21:54 jnthn ;)
21:54 * moritz took some time to figure out the "m" :-)
21:57 moritz anyway, ticketed
21:57 jnthn Thanks :)
21:58 * moritz -> sleep
21:58 jnthn najt
21:58 tadzik 'branoc
21:58 PerlJam Does rakudo also detect squares, rectangles, hexagons and other shapes?
21:59 tadzik nom: say so "␤".isa('rectangle')
21:59 p6eval nom 44556d: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
22:00 tadzik strange, it is a rectangle on my machine :)
22:00 jnthn .oO( Tetrahedronality detected in multi sub types )
22:00 masak tadzik: that's just due to low resolution.
22:00 vlkv joined #perl6
22:00 * masak .oO( Rhombus detected in multi sub types )
22:00 tadzik a-ha!
22:00 PerlJam If rakudo starts telling me about fractals and all the colors it sees in the sky, I may start to worry a bit
22:01 * masak .oO( Strange attractor detected in multi sub types )
22:01 tadzik we should write a module for that
22:01 PerlJam masak: is that like a gremlin?
22:01 tadzik a thread which conversates randomly with a user
22:01 tadzik it should be possible using niecza
22:01 PerlJam "Small imaginary imp detected ..."
22:02 PerlJam tadzik: are you disparaging rakudo?!?!?  ;)
22:02 Mowah joined #perl6
22:02 tadzik PerlJam: I'm sad too :)
22:12 masak PerlJam: it is *exactly* like a gremlin.
22:35 skids joined #perl6
22:35 masak 'night, #perl6
22:37 sorear bye
22:37 sorear interesting but
22:37 sorear bug
22:37 sorear in niecza, it's actually (should be) impossible to have cycles in multi narrowness
22:38 jnthn It shoudln't be possible in Rakudo provided you're not meta-programming (in which case you can say what you want about types, so all bets are off)
22:38 sorear ah ok
22:45 proller_ joined #perl6
22:45 whiteknight joined #perl6
22:48 japhb Oh, I bet I know what #107244 is.
22:48 dalek nqp: 2e578b5 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
22:48 dalek nqp: Accessing attributes may trigger auto-vivification of a scalar container with P6opaque; we were missing some write-barriers for these cases. Add them.
22:48 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/2e578b5d4a
22:49 japhb I remember some time ago a jnthn++ commit that I guessed would have an effect on MAIN_HELPER.
22:49 * japhb goes and digs
22:49 proller__ joined #perl6
22:52 japhb Yup, rakudo 1340fa68ba did it, I bet.
22:52 jnthn git show
22:52 jnthn grr
22:52 jnthn not here
22:52 * japhb goes to implement a fix and then wait ages for a full recompile (I was on a different branch)
22:53 sorear jnthn: can you explain what $!is_mixin is used for?
22:54 sorear I see the use in Attribute.instantiate_generic but I haven't quite figured out what this method is doing
22:54 tadzik yay, segfaults fixed! jnthn++
22:55 jnthn Yeah, and I'll bet that fix was below some other segfaults we've been seeing. Including the POD ones.
22:55 tadzik I thought the Pod ones are gone
22:55 jnthn tadzik: Roaming, I suspect.
22:55 jnthn tadzik: As in, we maybe lost them due to luck more than anything.
22:55 tadzik I wonder if it was behind Panda 'sometimes segfaulting when copying large directories'
22:55 tadzik maybe
22:55 jnthn tadzik: It was a probabalistic thing.
22:56 am0c joined #perl6
22:56 tadzik it's been WBs since I remember :) Can we make some static analyzing to find them all?
22:56 jnthn sorear: The flag itself really just means "was this class generated to serve as the point of the mixin"
22:56 sorear jnthn: "point"?
22:57 jnthn sorear: Mixins in Rakudo = generate anonymous subclass that inherits from the thing we're mixing in to, compose role(s).
22:57 sorear Yes
22:57 jnthn Then change_type it.
22:57 sorear In Niecza, subclasses created using "but" do not remember their origins, they are just like any other class
22:58 sorear I'm trying to understand why Rakudo tracks $!is_mixin
22:58 jnthn Yeah, that's how I had it originally....seem to remember there was something weird that cropped up...
22:58 TimToady presumably same reason Ruby does, so you don't do it again unnecessarily
22:59 jnthn oh, hm. :)
22:59 sorear jnthn: I'm trying to figure out what BOOTSTRAP.pm lines 198-199 are doing
22:59 jnthn It's about container types that get mixins.
23:00 jnthn And finding the actual container type itself so we can get our hands on its descriptor
23:00 jnthn That's...evil.
23:00 jnthn sorear: Unless you're very closely following Rakudo's container model, it's probably not relevant.
23:01 sorear I see
23:02 sorear niecza currently lacks anything akin to a container descriptor, so yeah
23:03 jnthn Well, Rakudo kinda works on a scheme of "prototype containers"
23:03 jnthn Which are repr_clone'd as needed.
23:03 jnthn It's relatively efficient. Especially compared to what ng did.
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23:06 sorear jnthn: Why are P6{int,num,str} REPRs?  It seem to me they have nothing in common with the rest of the things that are REPRs.
23:07 jnthn sorear: Rerpresentation really should means "stuff related to memory allocation/management"
23:07 jnthn s/should/just
23:07 jnthn sorear: int, num and str all have memory needs
23:07 jnthn And in the case of str, GC needs.
23:11 tadzik Tene: ping
23:11 jnthn OK, time for me to rest a bit. :)
23:11 jnthn Back tomorrow
23:11 tadzik rest well!
23:12 jnthn Thanks! :)
23:12 sorear Why is there no write barrier in P6opaque::copy_to ?
23:23 Tene tadzik: what's up?
23:24 tadzik Tene: I was wondering if you're about to make a repo for Ratel
23:24 Tene tadzik: I have no intentions to do anything of the sort. :)
23:25 dalek rakudo/nom: ae33c0b | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Main.pm:
23:25 dalek rakudo/nom: 1340fa68ba changed Parameter.type to return the actual type, not its name -- now fix MAIN_HELPER's gen_usage() to compensate.  Fixes #107244.
23:25 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ae33c0bc20
23:25 japhb Would someone mind doing the needful to #107244?
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23:27 tadzik Tene: huh, I thought you did
23:27 tadzik well, I adopted it into Bailador's repo as a temporary solution
23:27 Tene tadzik: what I remember is being asked about Ratel, and saying that I didn't feel any notable sense of ownership
23:27 tadzik oh, I see
23:28 Tene If there's any reason that anyone *wants* me to own the repo, I can.
23:28 Tene I don't otherwise care, though.
23:28 tadzik I thought it's about giving credit to you
23:29 Tene I'll feel appropriately credited if you add a CREDITS file or a note in the README or some such. :)
23:30 tadzik okay :)
23:30 tadzik huh, so I need a README for Bailador
23:47 dalek features: 13a62a9 | larry++ | features.json:
23:47 dalek features: New features features
23:47 dalek features:
23:47 dalek features: s/Currying/Priming/
23:47 dalek features: Added "Loops as list generators"
23:47 dalek features: review: https://github.com/perl6/f​eatures/commit/13a62a909e
23:47 dalek features: b8349ac | larry++ | features.json:
23:47 dalek features: make nom point to rakudo.org by default now
23:47 dalek features: review: https://github.com/perl6/f​eatures/commit/b8349ac5da
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