Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2012-01-16

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:07 dalek niecza: 82ae125 | (Paweł Murias)++ | lib/Perl5Interpreter.cs:
01:07 dalek niecza: Fix memory leak.
01:07 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/82ae125800
01:34 colomon \o/
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03:00 sorear huh, Rakudo's attributive parameters use assignment
03:07 sorear std: my $x = 5; $x but= role { }; # oops
03:07 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot make assignment out of but because structural infix operators are diffy at /tmp/lGmrcw3CN_ line 1:�------> [32mmy $x = 5; $x but=[33m�[31m role { }; # oops[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 110m�»
03:14 TimToady STD doesn't like to generate type-changing operators
03:18 dku joined #perl6
03:21 [Coke] https://gist.github.com/1476841 ... soooo close.
03:22 dalek roast: 764ef9e | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-trig/generate-tests.pl:
03:22 dalek roast: Add FatRat tests (appropriately fudged for Rakudo), remove fudging for Niecza.
03:22 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/764ef9e3b8
03:22 sorear 14:37 < [Coke]> # 01/15/2012 - niecza at 98.54%
03:23 colomon [Coke]: I've got more coming in a minute or two
03:23 sorear is there supposed to be a new(er) line in the gist?
03:24 dalek roast: 5ce04dc | (Solomon Foster)++ | S32-trig/ (13 files):
03:24 dalek roast: Add FatRat tests (appropriately fudged for Rakudo), remove fudging for Niecza.
03:24 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5ce04dc084
03:24 colomon [Coke]: there, that last push should be 13 * 8 or so more passing tests for niecza.
03:26 [Coke] I'll do a quick check for some LHF and rerun.
03:32 dalek roast: 9ebc638 | coke++ | S05-metasyntax/interpolating-closure.t:
03:32 dalek roast: fudge for niecza
03:32 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9ebc638b38
03:32 dalek niecza: f9b2ede | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
03:32 dalek niecza: run S05-metasyntax/interpolating-closure.t
03:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/f9b2ede6fd
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03:37 sorear std: :(:$!bar)
03:37 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 109m␤»
03:38 Psyche^ joined #perl6
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03:40 sorear std: :(:$!bar = 10, :$!baz?)
03:40 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m�Cannot put optional positional parameter after variadic parameters at /tmp/F9ScIONWFQ line 1:�------> [32m:(:$!bar = 10, :$!baz?[33m�[31m)[0m�Check failed�FAILED 00:01 111m�»
03:40 TimToady o.O
03:55 sorear found the bug... testing fix
03:55 sorear what did you mean by? 19:14 < TimToady> STD doesn't like to generate type-changing operators
03:56 TimToady I put operators into that category that return a different type from their inputs
03:57 TimToady so they don't make a lot of sense for change-in-place operations
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04:22 [Coke] colomon, sorear: updatd.
04:22 [Coke] # 01/15/2012 - niecza at 99.31%
04:23 [Coke] b: say 19058-18927
04:23 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«131␤»
04:23 colomon ah, man
04:24 colomon I really need to go to bed instead of trying to find those last 131 tests...
04:24 colomon afk
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04:31 [Coke] also updated https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ahm1zTZwW0VHdE1NN19GdE1fTmZZYnpGdURFM1A0cHc
04:49 dalek niecza: 4fbf388 | sorear++ | / (7 files):
04:49 dalek niecza: Add support for attributive parameters, & role constraint
04:49 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4fbf38826c
04:49 dalek roast: 6755bea | sorear++ | S (2 files):
04:49 dalek roast: [S12-attributes/instance,S06-signature/code] Unfudge for niecza
04:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/6755bea046
04:49 [Coke] sorear: estimate on how many more that gives us?
04:51 sorear 10? 20?
04:51 sorear probably closer to 10
04:51 sorear niecza: class { has ($!x, $!y) }
04:51 p6eval niecza v13-266-g6383a22: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Unhandled parameter twigil ! at /tmp/zes9sdHpve line 1:�------> [32mclass { has ($!x[33m�[31m, $!y) }[0m��Unhandled parameter twigil ! at /tmp/zes9sdHpve line 1:�------> [32mclass { has ($!x, $!y[33m�[31m) }[0m��Use…
04:53 sorear niecza: class { has $x }
04:53 p6eval niecza v13-266-g6383a22:  ( no output )
04:53 [Coke] I have 42 more unfuding shorting.
04:53 [Coke] *unfudging shortly.
04:54 dalek roast: 9b324ea | coke++ | S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t:
04:54 dalek roast: fudge for niecza
04:54 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9b324ea647
04:54 dalek niecza: 0e97331 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
04:54 dalek niecza: run S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t
04:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0e97331196
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05:01 dalek roast: 239510c | coke++ | S05-metasyntax/longest-alternative.t:
05:01 dalek roast: fudge for niecza
05:01 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/239510c515
05:01 dalek niecza: a638258 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
05:01 dalek niecza: run S05-metasyntax/longest-alternative.t
05:01 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a6382583d8
05:01 [Coke] 19 more..
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05:13 dalek roast: 06bb994 | coke++ | S05-match/capturing-contexts.t:
05:13 dalek roast: fudge for niecza
05:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/06bb994090
05:13 dalek niecza: 6b78f00 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
05:13 dalek niecza: run S05-match/capturing-contexts.t
05:13 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/6b78f0071c
05:13 [Coke] 25 more...
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05:18 dalek roast: cef0c9a | coke++ | S05-metasyntax/regex.t:
05:18 dalek roast: niecza fudge
05:18 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/cef0c9af5b
05:19 dalek niecza: 4d79458 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
05:19 dalek niecza: run S05-metasyntax/regex.t
05:19 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/4d794580dd
05:19 [Coke] 22 more...
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05:31 dalek niecza: bf92914 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
05:31 dalek niecza: run S12-methods/attribute-params.t
05:31 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bf929142c0
05:31 [Coke] 13..
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05:57 [Coke] # 01/16/2012 - niecza at 100.02%
05:57 [Coke] BOOYAH!
05:57 sorear \o/
05:58 [Coke] gist updated, google doc not. zzzzz.
06:04 moritz \o/
06:05 moritz sorear++ [Coke]++ colomon++
06:05 moritz congratulations everybody
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07:01 sorear std: our ($A::b, $C::d)
07:01 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Malformed parameter at /tmp/qZP7Jq7DgE line 1:â�¤------> [32mour ($A::[33mâ��[31mb, $C::d)[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤ formal parameterâ�¤       named_paramâ�¤Parse failedâ�¤FAILED 00:01 109mâ�¤Â»
07:01 sorear std: our $A::b
07:01 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 108m␤»
07:02 dalek roast: 631d013 | moritz++ | integration/error-reporting.t:
07:02 dalek roast: RT #76986, multiple anon vars in the same scope
07:02 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/631d0134e1
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07:06 sorear niecza: has $x
07:06 p6eval niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Attribute $!x declared outside of any class at /tmp/vSJlcG2LFj line 1 (EOF):â�¤------> [32mhas $x[33mâ��[31m<EOL>[0mâ�¤â�¤Potential difficulties:â�¤  'has' declaration outside of class at /tmp/vSJlcG2LFj line 1:â�¤------> [32mhas…
07:06 masak wow, Easter is early this year.
07:06 masak sorear++ [Coke]++ colomon++
07:07 sorear o/ masak
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07:15 masak sorear: \o
07:18 * sorear ponders splitting up NieczaActions into a couple of semi-arbitrary pieces
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07:31 masak sorear: how's the work on 6model convergence going? the v13 announcement says that's a future direction.
07:31 sorear masak: the role implementation work was a large part of that
07:32 sorear the main remaining hurdle is allowing users to write their own metaclasses ...
07:32 moritz niecza: say 1.HOW
07:32 p6eval niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«ClassHOW.new(...)␤»
07:32 moritz niecza: say 1.HOW.HOW
07:32 p6eval niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«ClassHOW.new(...)␤»
07:33 moritz circularity++
07:33 moritz niecza: say Numeric.^HOW
07:33 p6eval niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method HOW in class ClassHOW␤  at /tmp/fROk3wKHj3 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3013 (ANON @ 3) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3014 (module-CORE @ 59) ␤  at /h…
07:33 moritz niecza: say Numeric.HOW
07:33 p6eval niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«ClassHOW.new(...)␤»
07:33 sorear niecza's ClassHOW is a thin wrapper over a C# class ... that can't even usefully be subclassed at the C# level
07:33 moritz is Numeric a class?
07:33 sorear and there's only one of it, with an 'int type;' field that can be CLASS, ROLE, etc
07:34 sorear no
07:34 moritz so ClassHOW handles roles too?
07:34 sorear yes
07:34 sorear most of the '6model' tasks from here on is refactoring ClassHOW to expose more of its interface as Perl 6 methods that can be overriden
07:35 sorear and break it up into separate ClassHOW, RoleHOW, CurriedRoleHOW, ParametricRoleHOW, PackageHOW, ModuleHOW, and SubsetHOW classes
07:36 moritz SomeHOW sounds like and interesting task :-)
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07:37 sorear another problem is dealing with the 'cascading augment' feature that niecza has classically had
07:38 moritz what's cascading augment?
07:38 sorear right now in niecza you can say augment class Any { method pies() { 5 } } and the new method instantly shows up on every Any-derived class in the system and calling it is no slower than if it were defined on the class in the first place
07:38 sorear making this work properly requires weak references and a fair amount of support from ClassHOW
07:41 sorear oh, it also heavily colludes with the serializer
07:41 masak sorear: and EnumHOW :)
07:41 sorear There is no EnumHOW.  Enums have no metamodel features that distinguish them from other classes.
07:42 masak hm.
07:42 moritz so what do they have? a custom superclass?
07:42 sorear yes
07:42 moritz an enum needs to get its .pick method from somewhere...
07:43 sorear will probably be refactored into a role someday
07:43 moritz sorear: and where is that superclass determined?
07:43 moritz in ClassHOW?
07:43 daxim joined #perl6
07:45 sorear moritz: in the action method
07:45 sorear enum foo < a > desugars to class foo is Int is IntBasedEnum { ... }
07:46 sorear (actually, the bulk of the logic in the action method concerns constructing the 'constant's inside the enum)
07:46 sorear (which is a WHO issue, not a HOW issue, anyway)
07:47 moritz rakudo has a separate metaclass for enums, but I guess both approaches work
07:47 moritz commute&
07:48 sorear nom: class Foo { has $x; say $x }
07:48 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«Can only use repr_get_attr_obj on a SixModelObject␤  in <anon> at /tmp/gjsC6z7cwU:1␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/gjsC6z7cwU:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/gjsC6z7cwU:1␤»
07:53 muixirt joined #perl6
07:53 muixirt good morning
07:54 sorear good morning muixirt
07:54 muixirt I mentioned y'day the merge_sort example on rosetta code
07:55 muixirt it still doesn't work with nom
07:56 lestrrat joined #perl6
07:56 muixirt if you change one line: my @r = merge_sort @a[ $m ..^ @a ];
07:57 muixirt to: my @r = merge_sort @a[ $m ..^ @a.elems ];
07:57 muixirt then it works, any explanations?
07:58 sorear I guess ..^ isn't numifying the rhs right
07:59 TimToady how old is your nom?  This bug was fixed recently, I think
07:59 sorear o/ TimToady
08:00 muixirt TimToady: brand new (and several things were fixed, jnthn++)
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08:01 TimToady maybe it has regressed; rebuilding latest here
08:01 muixirt y'day Util's version didn't work, now it works
08:05 TimToady are you sure $m is an Int?
08:05 muixirt no
08:08 muixirt Int()
08:08 TimToady .. only upgrades the rhs to numeric if the left side is
08:08 TimToady hmm
08:08 TimToady nom: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5; say (3..^@a).list
08:08 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«3 4␤»
08:08 TimToady that seems right
08:09 TimToady nom: my @a = 1,2,3,4,5; say @a[ 3..^@a ]
08:09 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«4 5␤»
08:09 muixirt TimToady: did you try it?
08:09 TimToady that also seems right
08:09 TimToady not the whole thing
08:10 dalek niecza: 16b6b2e | sorear++ | / (5 files):
08:10 dalek niecza: Implement has $x creating an alias pseudo-lexical
08:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/16b6b2e02b
08:10 muixirt that's why I'm asking, I couldn't reproduce the bug with a smaller code snippet
08:10 dalek roast: 86cfd86 | sorear++ | S (2 files):
08:10 dalek roast: Unfudges for sorear/niecza@16b6b2e
08:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/86cfd86052
08:20 * sorear -> sleep
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08:30 masak 'night, sorear.
08:30 masak dream of specific HOWs.
08:34 masak sorear's comment made me wonder why we have an EnumHOW in Rakudo :)
08:36 moritz I think one goal was to move some of the actions logic to the meta class
08:36 moritz where it can be generalized more easily
08:37 moritz the second thing that I just remembered is that enums have specialized mixin rules
08:37 moritz $thing but True # overrides method $thing.Bool
08:38 masak oh!
08:54 jnthn Different declarator = Different HOW.
08:57 jnthn And yes, .^composalize for getting a composable thingy from the EnumHOW is a nice way to factor the role thingy in a very general way.
08:57 nornagest joined #perl6
09:00 masak "composalize". beautiful coinage.
09:01 masak jnthn: could I use E.^add_enum_value( $some-value ) to change an Enum at runtime?
09:03 preflex joined #perl6
09:03 moritz nom: enum A <b c>; A.^add_enum_value(6'); A.^compose; say A.enums
09:03 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 2␤»
09:03 moritz nom: enum A <b c>; A.^add_enum_value(6); A.^compose; say A.enums
09:03 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«Method 'value' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤  in add_enum_value at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2375␤  in method dispatch:<.^> at src/gen/CORE.setting:788␤  in block <anon> at /tmp/UGrRSNXZvY:1␤  in <anon> at /tmp/UGrRSNXZvY:1␤»
09:03 moritz nom: enum A <b c>; A.^add_enum_value("x" => 6); A.^compose; say A.enums
09:03 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«("b" => 0, "c" => 1, "x" => 6).hash␤»
09:04 moritz it seems you can; not sure if you should can though.
09:04 jnthn Normal meta-programming rule applies
09:04 jnthn You can if you understand the consequences.
09:05 daxim coinages are the translator's nightmare
09:06 daxim perl6: so algol, we invent a whole new language for our whole new language!
09:06 p6eval pugs b927740: OUTPUT«*** ␤    Unexpected "new"␤    expecting ":" or "("␤    at /tmp/Vh53pSCHIJ line 1, column 56␤»
09:06 p6eval ..niecza v13-275-ga638258: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m��Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at /tmp/KALejEFN9W line 1:�------> [32mo algol, we invent a whole new language [33m�[31mfor our whole new language![0m��Undeclared routi…
09:06 p6eval ..rakudo 326de8: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of C++ constructor syntax; in Perl 6 please use method call syntax at line 1, near "for our wh"␤»
09:06 masak moritz++ # should can
09:07 masak daxim: indeed. see http://strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-ghost-of-algol-68
09:07 daxim I know this
09:08 moritz (totally unrelated): http://de.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1201/1201.2801v1.pdf
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09:14 tadzik good morning
09:15 masak good actual morning, tadzik. :)
09:15 tadzik what an exceptional day
09:15 masak moritz: I am confused by the term "metamaterial" :)
09:15 masak tadzik: truly a remarkable set of 24 hours.
09:16 moritz masak: it's jargon for a solid that is structered on a smaller scale then the wavelength of light
09:16 moritz masak: which can lead to weird effects, like negative refractive index
09:16 masak right.
09:16 * daxim slaps the material scientists with a greek dictionary
09:17 masak so, "micromaterial" would've been OK :)
09:17 moritz more like "nano"
09:17 masak yeah! we should introduce the term "nanomaterial" :P
09:18 moritz but "nano" is already taken by a different branch of material scientists
09:18 * masak starts cranking out "hands off my 'meta'" stickers
09:19 daxim it's perfectly cromulent to talk about nano-scale material even if it does not come out of a drexler-type nano-factory
09:19 daxim context etc.
09:20 * daxim pokes george clooney.   want "diamond age" film, now.
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09:35 masak wow, Zavolaj! jnthn++
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09:48 * muixirt wonders if rosetta code Anagrams was ever tested with perl6 and the original data file
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09:52 mathw I think 'nanomaterial' might already mean something else
09:52 mathw although somethign that probably blurs into 'metamaterial' along the way
09:53 jnthn masak: You...only just discovered Zavolaj? :)
09:53 mathw jnthn: I for one only discovered with your blog post how awesome it's got
09:53 masak jnthn: no, but I like the recent improvements.
09:53 jnthn Ah. :)
09:53 jnthn And there's more to come yet. :)
09:53 moritz are nested structs already implemented?
09:54 jnthn moritz: Not yet.
09:54 mathw arrays of structs with arrays of structs containing structs in them!
09:54 mathw (instant headache time)
09:54 jnthn mathw: Should be possible once I'm done.
09:55 mathw jnthn: hopefully it gets to the point where the extra levels just happen thanks to the existing mechanisms
09:55 masak HN is currently discussing HN's recent "kindness scaling" trouble: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3469453
09:55 masak interesting discussion.
09:56 jnthn masak: Yeah, that's how the design is meant to fall out. Of course, implementation is where we see how well that works out. :)
09:58 jnthn er, mathw ^^
09:58 jnthn tab fail strajks again
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10:02 mathw :)
10:03 mathw well it would be a pretty poor design if you had to hand-code it for every possible depth level
10:03 mathw and that's not the kind of thing you'd do
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10:16 Timbus timbus@timbox:~/Projects/rakudo/zavolaj$ ../perl6 examples/sqlite3.p6
10:16 Timbus open status 0
10:16 Timbus hoho
10:17 moritz jnthn: it seems that all the test files in zavolaj abort with "relocation R_X86_64_32 against `.rodata' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC:
10:17 Timbus changed the pointer to pointer into an CArray[int]
10:17 Timbus i feel bad but it works
10:18 Timbus i hate that error :<
10:24 Timbus jnthn, how about letting CPtr take a single attribute? that would be a pretty good way to build pointer chains when needed. I assume that's probably already the plan though
10:36 moritz jnthn: I have two small commits to zavolaj that fix the test compilation with gcc. Could you please give me a commit bit?
10:39 moritz jnthn: there's another problem; on linux the library loader doesn't seem to look into the current working directory, and thus fails to load the test .so files
10:40 moritz when I run  LD_LIBRARY_PATH=. prove -e perl6  then all tests pass (with my fixes)
10:47 bacek joined #perl6
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10:50 jnthn sorry, had meeting
10:50 * moritz not in a hurry
10:51 jnthn moritz: You now have a commit bit
10:51 dalek zavolaj: ecf0ae4 | moritz++ | t/05-arrays.c:
10:51 dalek zavolaj: get rid of a GCC warning
10:51 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/ecf0ae46ff
10:51 dalek zavolaj: 7ec2386 | moritz++ | t/CompileTestLib.pm:
10:51 dalek zavolaj: [t] fix compilation of shared libraries with GCC
10:51 dalek zavolaj: review: https://github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/commit/7ec2386eaa
10:51 * moritz is not afraid to use it
10:51 jnthn \o/
10:52 jnthn moritz++
10:52 moritz I just hope I didn't break compilation on windows :-)
10:52 jnthn Timbus: Is your use case that you need to be able to chase pointers?
10:52 jnthn Timbus: Something with CPointer repr can hold a pointer
10:56 * jnthn guesses he's missing something
10:57 jnthn Timbus: Anyway, if you make changes to get sqlite working, I'd be happy to look over them and find a way to neaten things
10:58 moritz http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=948107
11:01 Timbus jnthn, sqlite takes a ptrptr
11:01 Timbus and sets the inner ptr
11:01 jnthn Timbus: ah, ok
11:01 Timbus i know of many libraries that do
11:01 jnthn *nod*
11:01 jnthn Yeah, that's something Zavolaj should support in a better way.
11:01 Timbus it's not really that I need the value or anything, but yeah
11:01 Timbus it needs to allocate the space
11:02 Timbus ... and i probably do need the value too (haven't thought that far ahead)
11:04 Chillance joined #perl6
11:04 mathw I'd be surprised if you didn't need it later
11:05 jnthn lunch &
11:06 Timbus i don't normally capitalize my 'i' so the effect was lost (what i meant was, i myself, won't need the value. i just gotta pass it back to the library wanting the handle)
11:07 Timbus i do need to pull it out of the returned ptrptr, yes
11:09 mathw Well you need it in the sense that you need it to use the library...
11:09 mathw Or, the library needs it in order to work
11:09 mathw Or something
11:09 mathw It's Monday...
11:10 masak moritz: that PerlMonks post makes a *great* comparison. self-accelerating change.
11:13 * masak made a comment
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11:55 flussence nice post, raiph++
12:00 flussence I notice parallels between perl6 and web development all the time... we even have a Mozilla/Chrome/IE situation. No prizes for guessing which is which :)
12:14 nornagest joined #perl6
12:16 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
12:17 * masak .oO( Yapsi is a web browser implemented entirely in JavaScript )
12:18 DarthGandalf joined #perl6
12:18 arnsholt Running in another browser =)
12:20 jnthn Like Mozilla, Rakudo even has excessive memory usage :P
12:25 flussence yeah, but at least I can still compile rakudo in 1GB. Firefox has gone way off the deep end there :(
12:25 masak arnsholt: or itself, ultimately.
12:26 arnsholt Yeah, and ultimately in itself. IIRC there are a couple of Common Lisp compilers that require a CL compiler to build
12:27 masak this is the first time I've gotten a clear picture of what made chromatic give up on Rakudo Star: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=940679
12:27 colomon [Coke]++ sorear++
12:31 arnsholt masak: Nice find. I'm kinda curious what kind of project it is/was
12:34 masak something to do with Onyx Press, I hazard.
12:35 masak well, that's basically a given unless chromatic owns several firms. :)
12:38 jnthn The whole reason for *not* releasing a Rakudo Star based on nom so far was because we didn't want to cause a bunch of breakage to existing stuff, or at least keep it down to a manageable level. :/
12:39 masak well, as some other node in that thread diagnoses, chromatic suffered "early adopter burnout".
12:39 colomon sure... but if he was counting on regular progress on R*....
12:40 colomon that is, R* being stable but getting better.
12:40 moritz well, thing is, he wanted to use listen to user feedback, and act accordingly to it
12:40 moritz and all the users said "make it faster"
12:40 moritz so we do
12:40 moritz but that doesn't find mr. chromatic's approval
12:40 jnthn Well, quite.
12:41 masak there's no question about the nom refactor being the right thing to do in the long run.
12:41 colomon right
12:41 masak I'm not enough of a core hacker to know whether it could've been made smaller/more isolated from other simultaneous refactors.
12:41 masak (list semantics, parsing)
12:42 masak maybe it could. maybe not.
12:42 jnthn Well, the list changes and QRegex didn't need to be part of it.
12:42 masak right.
12:42 jnthn They weren't in my original plan, pmichaud just felt it was the time for him to do them. Which was great while he actually had tuits. And became not so great very shortly after he stopped having them.
12:42 moritz but it would have been more work to first restore the old semantics and then rework them
12:42 jnthn (Not casting any blame here, it's just the unfortunate way things came out.)
12:43 jnthn moritz: Yes, that could also have been true in various cases.
12:43 jnthn In the end, it all needed doing.
12:43 jnthn It's basically a throughput vs latency situation.
12:43 jnthn Doing it in one go had better throughput, but higher latency.
12:43 nornagest joined #perl6
12:44 jnthn If we'd done it in smaller chunks, we'd have put out more incremental changes, but getting to the current point would have taken longer, and probably resulted in worse code quality.
12:44 dalek roast: 3a0067e | (Solomon Foster)++ | S06-signature/sub-ref.t:
12:44 dalek roast: Fudge for niecza.
12:44 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3a0067eb0c
12:46 colomon if we'd had the resources, the "right thing" to do would probably have been to keep a couple programmers working on the ng branch and doing quasi-regular R* releases from it until nom was ready.
12:46 colomon but that's a big "if"
12:46 lutok joined #perl6
12:46 dalek niecza: 0247a8a | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
12:46 dalek niecza: Turn on S06-signature/sub-ref.t.
12:46 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0247a8a35f
12:47 masak thinking about it, I'm *very* relieved Rakudo managed to get "escape velocity" enough to survive the (temporary, at least) loss of a core dev.
12:47 masak that's not a give. cf Pugs.
12:47 masak given*
12:47 bluescreen10 joined #perl6
12:48 jnthn colomon: I'd *love* Rakudo to have had the resources to make that feasible.
12:48 moritz nom: say 367 / 594
12:48 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«0.617845117845118␤»
12:48 colomon yeah, and I'd love it if TPF would pay all of us fulltime, too. ;)
12:49 moritz so about 60% of the tests that rakudo runs are fudged
12:50 jnthn moritz: Test *files*?
12:50 moritz jnthn: yes
12:50 jnthn moritz: Is there any easy way for me to see which tests we don't run at all?
12:50 jnthn er, test files we don't run at all :)
12:51 moritz nom: say 318 /594 # better estimate
12:51 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«0.535353535353535␤»
12:51 moritz jnthn: I can make such a list if you want
12:51 jnthn moritz: Would be interesting to see.
12:52 jnthn I discovered pseudo.t somewhere in S02 the other day which has 140 or so tests if I implement a bunch of the pseudo packages. :)
12:52 dalek rakudo/nom: 30b27ed | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
12:52 dalek rakudo/nom: fix spelling of test file name
12:52 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/30b27ed120
12:53 masak jnthn: you'd better; I hear Niecza is close to running as many tests as Rakudo! :P
12:53 jnthn masak: :
12:53 jnthn :P
12:54 masak hurry before it's too late
12:54 * jnthn isn't sure whether to find that motivating of demotivating. :)
12:54 jnthn *or
12:55 colomon motivating!
12:57 moritz jnthn: I'm generating that list now, it was an easy modification to tools/update_passing_test_data.pl
12:57 jnthn moritz: yay :)
12:58 moritz jnthn: http://moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/tests.txt
12:58 moritz those with [SPA] can probably directly added to t/spectest.data
12:58 * moritz works on it
12:59 moritz a plan of 0 usually means that the file failed to compile
13:00 jnthn int eresting;
13:02 dalek rakudo/nom: acee932 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
13:02 dalek rakudo/nom: run 3 more test files
13:02 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/acee932af2
13:02 moritz I think I fudged some of those files and then forgot to add them to t/spectest.data. distractions--
13:05 moritz oh, and autounfudge also finds a few things to remove
13:05 jnthn :)
13:06 jnthn moritz: Do those three you added to spectest.data really all pass, or do they need fudging?
13:06 moritz jnthn: they pass as-is (fudged)
13:06 jnthn nice :)
13:07 jnthn moritz: [SPA] (  5/6  ) t/spec/S05-metasyntax/interpolating-closure.t
13:07 jnthn also
13:08 moritz I've fixed the spelling of that file in 30b27ed
13:08 moritz so that's already accounted for
13:08 jnthn ah, ok
13:08 jnthn [SPA] (  1/1  ) t/spec/S24-testing/0-compile.t
13:08 jnthn also
13:08 jnthn ...1 test ;)
13:08 jnthn [SP ] ( 26/76 ) t/spec/S32-num/stringify.t
13:09 jnthn That sounds like a good candidate for fudging.
13:09 moritz I'm looking at that one
13:09 moritz it's... weird
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13:09 jnthn Also [SPA] (  1/1  ) t/spec/S29-context/exit-in-if.t
13:09 moritz we seem to be failing about 40 (!) stringifiation tests in there because we produce '1 + 2i' instead of '1+2i' in Complex.Str
13:10 moritz and I wonder where that's specced
13:10 dalek niecza: bfb4205 | (Paweł Murias)++ | / (3 files):
13:10 dalek niecza: Sending string with nulls in the middle from p5 land works.
13:10 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/bfb4205036
13:11 jnthn moritz: I think TimToady++ did a spec commit on that like, really recently.
13:12 moritz that commit didn't spec Complex.Str though
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13:13 dalek roast: 077c384 | (Paweł Murias)++ | S01-perl-5-integration/strings.t:
13:13 dalek roast: Test passing string with unicode and nulls to/and from perl5.
13:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/077c384490
13:13 moritz nom: say Complex.new(1, Inf).Str
13:13 p6eval nom 326de8: OUTPUT«1 + Infi␤»
13:13 jnthn moritz: it does
13:13 jnthn 383  +Returns a string representation of the form "C<1+2i>", without
13:13 jnthn 384  +internal spaces.  (C<Str> coercion also returns this.)
13:13 pmurias one more passing test file for niecza ;)
13:13 moritz oh
13:13 * moritz blind
13:14 pmurias moritz: blind?
13:15 moritz pmurias: I've read through the diff and still missed the thing I was actually looking for
13:15 * pmurias is slow today
13:16 * jnthn isn't doing so bad, but you'd hope so by the 5th cup of black coffee :)
13:16 mathw on the bright side, you can now fix it :D
13:18 arnsholt My hands usually start shaking from too much caffeine around the fifth cup ^_^
13:20 masak everybody knows you empty the cup, and then you throw it against the wall. shouting "we need to do something to energize the community!"
13:20 felher colomon: I just looked into your Math::Prime module. That lazy-list with the next-prime function ist quite cool :)
13:21 jnthn Well, at this place I'm more likely to shout, "write f'ing commit messages!!1!!!" :)
13:21 jnthn But maybe I should try throwing mugs...nothing else I've tried has worked yet. :)
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13:27 masak jnthn: commit messages only start to make sense after atomic commits start to make sense.
13:28 jnthn masak: Well, yeah, that's the underlying issue.
13:28 jnthn (I tend to talk about the two together.)
13:29 masak and atomic commits... aren't obvious. they have to be discovered.
13:29 masak in particular, they're not the natural state of being if your VCS happens to suck.
13:30 jnthn TFS. :'(
13:30 dalek roast: 3bf5bff | (Paweł Murias)++ | S01-perl-5-integration/subs.t:
13:30 dalek roast: Add missing plan.
13:30 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3bf5bffc4a
13:32 dalek niecza: 96a7a50 | (Paweł Murias)++ | t/ (3 files):
13:32 dalek niecza: Add t/run_spectests_p5 which runs the spec tests for p5 integration.
13:32 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/96a7a50eb4
13:32 masak jnthn: ah.
13:34 pmurias moritz: all spec test should have an explicit plan?
13:34 moritz pmurias: most
13:34 mathw TFS?
13:35 moritz ie those that can be easily (-ish) be verified by a human
13:36 jnthn mathw: Team Foundation System. The crappy Microsoft one that's just a tiny bit less crappy than SourceSafe, but still mostly awful.
13:36 mathw ah that
13:36 masak s/System/Server/
13:36 mathw I've never had the displeasure
13:36 mathw We use git at my place \p/
13:37 mathw \o/
13:37 mathw git and thoroughly modern C#
13:37 jnthn masak: heh, you don't work with it and you know better than me :P
13:37 mathw it's not quite as good as Perl 6, Haskell or Lisp
13:37 mathw but it's pretty groovy
13:37 * jnthn likes C#
13:37 * jnthn loves Git :)
13:37 mathw Git is cool
13:37 * arnsholt likes C# as well
13:37 mathw although we've got some weird problems with it
13:37 mathw like my TortoiseGit has stopped being able to rebase properly
13:38 mathw and my GitExtensions in VS2010 has decided that including the committer name is too much trouble (it worked fine before)
13:39 mathw but in general I like it, and although my colleague hasn't quite grasped all of it yet I like how we can throw branches around with wild abandon and it just copes :D
13:40 mathw and C# having closures is the most awesome thing, especially when you start playing with the Reactive Framework
13:40 mathw We'd both like to use F# but in some ways it's actually quite primitive and the tool support is certainly very clunky
13:44 flussence blah, VCSes. I'm still stuck on svn at $dayjob... but I use git for all new projects without telling anyone :)
13:45 moritz "guerilla git"
13:46 moritz wouldn't that make a great book title? :-)
13:46 flussence it'd probably be a short book :)
13:47 flussence .oO( "1. Use git! 2. Don't let anyone catch you." )
13:49 dalek roast: 645f735 | moritz++ | / (4 files):
13:49 dalek roast: 5 rakudo unfudges found by autounfudge.pl
13:49 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/645f735df1
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: e7c5034 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: run exit-in-if.t
13:49 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e7c50342c9
13:49 moritz flussence: it could talk about git-svn, git-cvs, git-hg and whatever, how to adapt to their branching models etc.
13:50 masak flussence: I do the same. I can fruitfully use git to organize my own commits, and then interact in whatever way necessary with other people's VCS, or lack of it.
13:51 flussence I tried git-svn once... the prehistoric svn server here *really* didn't like it for some reason. I ended up having to fix corrupted XML strings in a repo dump by hand. :(
13:52 mathw I tried it, it went strange
13:53 colomon yeah, I didn't lose anything, but it got kind of wonky over time
13:53 moritz nom: my num $x = 1.2e0; say "foo $x $bar"
13:53 p6eval nom acee93: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $bar is not predeclared at line 1, near "\""␤»
13:53 moritz nom: my num $x = 1.2e0; say "foo $x bar"
13:53 p6eval nom acee93: OUTPUT«foo 1.2 bar␤»
13:58 moritz t/spec/S12-attributes/defaults.t has a line   has $.self_in_code = { self.echo };
13:58 moritz is that allowed?
13:58 moritz (I'd say "no", but I'm not 100% sure)
13:59 colomon we had a bunch of discussions touching on that yesterday
14:01 colomon my impression is "no one knows"
14:02 colomon in general, that test file is weird and I'm not sure completely thought out
14:04 colomon like, is there really a difference between what's going on in line 28 and line 29?  Isn't 28 required to be a thunk?
14:04 colomon in which case the line 43 test is wrong
14:04 colomon and also, making it an eval instead of just a normal class is unnecessary
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14:05 dalek roast: c831c95 | moritz++ | S (2 files):
14:05 dalek roast: fudge kv.t for rakudo
14:05 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c831c9514d
14:07 * masak disfondly remembers A12's weird ideas about how blocks and attribute initialization would work together
14:08 masak I'm glad we evolved those ideas :)
14:09 moritz colomon: the eval is even wrong, because then the compiler complains that Foo is only stubbed
14:09 moritz colomon: in my last roast commit I sneakily included a small patch that removed the eval
14:11 moritz colomon: erm, yes. After a closer review I'd just like to delete that test file
14:12 nornagest joined #perl6
14:13 moritz nobody seems to have touched that file except for general-purpose cleanup
14:13 dalek roast: 25075dc | moritz++ | S12-attributes/defaults.t:
14:13 dalek roast: remove outdated test file
14:13 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/25075dceff
14:14 colomon eh, I'd have been in favor of rewriting it to current standard.  but it might indeed be easier to start from scratch.
14:16 moritz feel free to revert+rewrite
14:17 moritz but IMHO those "test how many times this closure has been executed" tests are fragile and not very benefitial
14:17 moritz it's the kind of test you write if you don't really understand the feature at hand
14:29 colomon hmmm.  It seems like a reasonable sort of test to me; my complaint was just that it got all the details wrong.
14:30 colomon very wrong
14:43 sayu joined #perl6
14:43 tadzik 'afternoon
14:43 dalek roast: 9e48a8d | moritz++ | S32-num/stringify.t:
14:43 dalek roast: fudge S32-num/stringify.t for rakudo
14:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/9e48a8dd34
14:43 dalek roast: 5d4cfd4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | integration/error-reporting.t:
14:43 dalek roast: Refudge for niecza.
14:43 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/5d4cfd4e8c
14:44 masak tadzik: \o
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: b75ebed | moritz++ | src/core/Complex.pm:
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: update Complex.Str to match current spec
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b75ebedfd4
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: 2c1d2f9 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: run S32-num/strintify.t
14:45 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2c1d2f9c3e
14:46 felher tadzik: o/
14:50 colomon moritz: I've reverted your change and started rewriting the tests locally.  :)
14:50 colomon moritz: but I'm going to go skiing before I finish, I think.   ;)
14:51 moritz colomon: have fun!
14:58 colomon oh!  if the default value is explicitly a closure, then you're assigning the closure to the attribute, right?
14:59 * colomon had not fully appreciated how incredibly wrong that test file was
15:01 colomon afk # off to City Forest
15:03 PacoAir joined #perl6
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15:03 [Coke] niecza: say ("ACHOO")x10;
15:03 p6eval niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤â�¤Whitespace is required between alphanumeric tokens at /tmp/iMGUgMfcAD line 1:â�¤------> [32msay ("ACHOO")x[33mâ��[31m10;[0mâ�¤â�¤Unhandled exception: Check failedâ�¤â�¤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 919 (die @ …
15:03 [Coke] aw.
15:07 PerlJam Does latest NQP not build against lated Parrot?
15:07 tadzik I doubt it
15:09 masak niecza: say "ACHOO"x 10
15:09 p6eval niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«ACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOO␤»
15:09 masak niecza: say "ACHOO"x\10
15:09 p6eval niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use value like Capture as a number␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 211 (Any.Numeric @ 5) ␤  at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤  at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
15:09 masak niecza: say "ACHOO"x\ 10
15:09 p6eval niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«ACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOOACHOO␤»
15:10 PerlJam ah ... :instanceof was removed from P
15:10 PerlJam er PIR
15:16 jnthn er...
15:17 jnthn And replaced with...?
15:17 PerlJam dunno.  I just read the parrot log
15:17 tadzik whiteknight's to be asked, I guess
15:17 PerlJam Though, this looks relevant: https://github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/560
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15:27 jnthn NQP's multi-dispatch uses it.
15:28 * jnthn didn't know about the ticket :(
15:29 jnthn Anyway, looks like next NQP release will just have to be against the previous month's Parrot. It's non-trivial to change NQP to avoid using :instanceof.
15:33 moritz huh, is the broken parrot already released?
15:33 moritz or is it too close to the release already?
15:34 PerlJam the parrot release is tomorrow isn't it?
15:34 moritz aye
15:44 jnthn moritz: Well, we could ask them to revert the removal too
15:45 jnthn eek, I thought the release was next week. Calendar reading fail. :/
15:47 PerlJam jnthn: what exactly is :instanceof used for?  It looks like a compile-time note that says the subroutine is a DispatcherSub rather than the normal Sub and then there's code that relies on knowing what sort of sub its dealing with.  Is there no other compile-time  (or, earlier-than-run-time) way to attach this information?
15:47 jnthn PerlJam: Not so far as I know.
15:48 jnthn PerlJam: I mean, it's not jsut attaching info, but it's creating it as a different PMC type
15:48 jnthn Turning it into the subtype would be messy.
15:49 jnthn I can find a way, it's just...not a great use of time given how many real issues exist.
15:49 PerlJam so, to replace it now, would mean that you'd have to "manually" create DispatcherSubs and make sure they are created early enough to be useful?
15:50 jnthn PerlJam: It'd mean in-place type changing the existing Sub PMCs, I think.
15:50 [Coke] I think we can just start with "hey, we were using that, do you mind?"
15:50 PerlJam [Coke]: indeed.
15:50 jnthn [Coke]: Yes, worth a try.
15:51 PerlJam Maybe whiteknight has a quick solution too  </hopeful>
15:51 jnthn In the long run, I don't really want to be using :instanceof.
15:52 * [Coke] opened the dialog.
15:52 jnthn [Coke]: Thanks.
15:52 masak [Coke]++
15:53 [Coke] ah, so did benabik++, apparently.
15:53 jnthn I would rather not have to deal with its removal just yet, though.
15:53 * [Coke] doesn't want to run the compiler spec stats again after all those nom commits!
15:54 jnthn ;)
15:55 * [Coke] looks for some LHF first. ;)
15:56 jnthn [Coke]: Why isn't Rakudo allowed to be ahead some days? :)
15:58 felher Could someone please explain to me the difference between the following statements?
15:58 felher nom: sub x() { say "x"; } x();
15:58 p6eval nom 2c1d2f:  ( no output )
15:59 felher nom: sub y() { say "x"; } y();
15:59 p6eval nom 2c1d2f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 1, near "sub y() { "␤»
15:59 felher Ah...
15:59 felher because 'x' is also the string-repetition operator?
15:59 moritz felher: both should be mis-parses
15:59 moritz oh right, yes
15:59 moritz need a ; after }
16:00 felher moritz: thnx :)
16:01 felher I tested it for about 10 minutes and the second in poste it here it i realize that 'x' is the string-repetition operator ...
16:04 jnthn std: sub x() { say "x"; } x()
16:04 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 111m␤»
16:04 jnthn Even STD sees it as the string repetition operator :)
16:04 moritz std: sub y() { say "x"; } y()
16:05 p6eval std dc62e1d: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0mâ�¤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/OhIFilLcmU line 1:â�¤------> [32msub y() { say "x"; }[33mâ��[31m y()[0mâ�¤    expecting any of:â�¤  bracketed infixâ�¤        infix or meta-infixâ�¤    statement modifier loopâ�¤Pa…
16:05 jnthn Teaches you to call your sub something better than x :P
16:05 felher indeed :)
16:06 jnthn ok, home time &
16:07 mj41 joined #perl6
16:29 * masak decommutes
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16:42 * jnthn home
16:52 colomon perl6: class Foo { has $.a = { say "NicGaviskey"; }; }; my $f = Foo.new; $f.a()
16:52 p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 2c1d2f, niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e:  ( no output )
16:52 colomon perl6: class Foo { has $.a = { say "NicGaviskey"; }; }; my $f = Foo.new; $f.a()()
16:52 p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 2c1d2f, niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«NicGaviskey␤»
16:52 colomon jnthn: reckon that's correct behavior?
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16:54 jnthn colomon: Looks fine to me.
16:54 jnthn The parens on $f.a() are invoking the method a
16:54 colomon right
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16:56 TimToady but see S02:2426
16:56 colomon nooooo!
16:56 TimToady perl6: class Foo { has $.a = { say "NicGaviskey"; }; }; my $f = Foo.new; $f.a.()
16:56 p6eval pugs b927740, rakudo 2c1d2f, niecza v13-279-g16b6b2e: OUTPUT«NicGaviskey␤»
16:57 colomon that's also correct?
16:57 TimToady but see S02:2426
16:57 colomon I'm looking but not seeing
16:58 TimToady $.foo.()    # means $.foo().()
17:00 colomon I gathered as much, I'm just not seeing justification for that in S02:2426.  Maybe the stupid software took me to the wrong line number?
17:02 TimToady should just be the paragraph before that example
17:02 TimToady done a git pull lately?
17:02 TimToady or is the ir clog link not working?
17:03 colomon did you mean S12:2426?
17:03 colomon I do see a reference there in S12
17:05 TimToady no S02, the section Ampersand and invocation
17:05 mikemol Kinda reading a lot of backlog. If you assume all numbers have a string representation, why does that imply inclusion of a string pointer with the number? Couldn't you generate that on-demand, possibly storing the representation in a cache as an optimization for subsequent calls?
17:06 colomon TimToady: ah, if I jump to that title I see it.
17:06 mikemol I mean, if being lazy is a virtue, be lazy, dangit!
17:06 TimToady colomon: so obviously the line link is screwed up somehow
17:07 colomon TimToady: yeah
17:07 TimToady mikemol: but we don't want to kludge up the representation all numbers just to handle val() allomorphism
17:07 TimToady this is one tail that should not wag the dog
17:07 TimToady so I think MI is a better solution
17:09 dalek roast: c411376 | jnthn++ | S12-class/literal.t:
17:09 dalek roast: Fix a test that thought a type object should be boolean true.
17:09 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/c411376a4a
17:10 TimToady and maybe it's not so bad if we get an ambiguous dispatch out of an IntStr; that's why + and ~ are single character coercers, after all...
17:11 TimToady and we can always get smarter down the road; failing the ambiguous dispatch is the conservative thing to do for 6.0
17:12 TimToady sorear: ^^ you can put it back on your todo list :)
17:13 mikemol I just got a boatload of tuit drains finally covered; the OMGWTF busy season is finally over. Need to do a little wedding planning, possibly prep for a Penguicon presentation, a tweak to RC's syntax highlighting to allow highlighting to be switched off...but then I should be able to look at p6 specs again.
17:14 colomon Penguicon!
17:14 mikemol I just presented on IPv6 at MDLUG, and they want me to submit to present on IPv6 at Penguicon. So, yeah. :)
17:15 colomon cool
17:15 colomon I presented on p6 last year.
17:15 colomon but haven't gotten beyond thinking about ConFusion this year.  ;)
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 86bb3ae | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Make sure we don't generate a throwaway GLOBAL in an eval - just use the one currently in force.
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/86bb3ae2a4
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: 6f9a909 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: Run S12-class/literal.t.
17:16 mikemol Only realy question in my mind is if I'll have enough time to divide my talk into each of IPv6 and your {server|home network|enterprise network|software}...Each case has different takes on capabilities and considerations.
17:16 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6f9a90915c
17:23 dalek roast: 26d151e | (Solomon Foster)++ | S12-attributes/defaults.t:
17:23 dalek roast: Revert "remove outdated test file", to provide a starting framework for developing a sensible modern version of these tests.
17:23 dalek roast:
17:23 dalek roast: This reverts commit 25075dceff423a637e93e97642a9efe6b5653317.
17:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/26d151e626
17:23 dalek roast: 15bfd0d | (Solomon Foster)++ | S12-attributes/defaults.t:
17:23 dalek roast: Rewrite test to conform to current standard.  moritz++, other p6ers, please code review.
17:23 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/15bfd0d16a
17:24 dalek niecza: 68084c6 | (Solomon Foster)++ | lib/CORE.setting:
17:24 dalek niecza: Borrow Rakudo's implementation of categorize.
17:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/68084c6a4f
17:24 dalek niecza: a59163d | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
17:24 dalek niecza: Turn on S32-list/categorize.t.
17:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/a59163df12
17:24 dalek niecza: 83e8bea | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
17:24 dalek niecza: Turn on S12-attributes/defaults.t.
17:24 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/83e8beab88
17:27 [Coke] http://neoformix.com/spot/#/perl6 - new visualization tool for twitter. (perl6 is kind of a light topic for it, try just "perl")
17:27 * [Coke] restarts the niecza spectest run. ;)
17:29 * [Coke] sees that his gist was tweeted. huh.
17:29 * [Coke] would have gussied it up.
17:30 colomon tweeted by whom?
17:30 [Coke] https://twitter.com/#!/audreyt/status/158862020580610049
17:30 [Coke] she appears to be patient zero.
17:31 colomon danke
17:33 colomon [Coke]: to be fair, S12-attributes/defaults.t probably works on Rakudo now, too, they just haven't had a chance to add it to spectest.data.  Give them a bonus 32 or so.
17:35 GlitchMr42 joined #perl6
17:37 * [Coke] will check them for LHF.
17:37 [Coke] ... but later. ;)
17:40 zjmarlow joined #perl6
17:41 masak zjmarlow: hi!
17:50 zjmarlow Hello.
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17:58 dalek roast: 66892d4 | jnthn++ | integration/advent2009-day22.t:
17:58 dalek roast: Remove bogus type constraint, which could never have worked (ng wasn't good at checking attribute type constraints though).
17:58 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/66892d4943
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18:10 dalek roast: ff3141d | jnthn++ | S02-types/capture.t:
18:10 dalek roast: nom re-fudging
18:10 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ff3141d7ea
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 98c9ddf | jnthn++ | src/core/Parameter.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Another couple of tweaks to make Signature.perl a little less wrong.
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/98c9ddfc8c
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: d032415 | jnthn++ | src/core/Parcel.pm:
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Improve Parcel.Capture.
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d032415631
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: 5bc4fdc | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: Turn on two more integration tests.
18:10 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5bc4fdc1c4
18:11 [Coke] b: say 19182-19131
18:11 p6eval b 1b7dd1: OUTPUT«51␤»
18:11 [Coke] rakudo has pulled ahead again. ;)
18:12 [Coke] I am not doing another "official" run until tomorrow though. ;)
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19:08 felher Any comments on: https://gist.github.com/1622404 ? Otherwise i put it on rosetta-code (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Miller-Rabin_primality_test) in a few hours.
19:12 moritz felher: !%% is a bit weird for %
19:14 felher moritz: oh, yeah. It first was only %% at a different position. Than i copied it up and made it to !%% instead of %. good point :)
19:14 moritz felher: you don't need any parens around the condition of the 'while'-loop
19:14 felher moritz: another good point :)
19:15 moritz my $x = $a ** $d mod $n; # in the underlying math library that we use for bigint we have a special function for that... but it's not exposed to p6 space :/
19:16 felher moritz: yeah. I also looked for a math-module but there doesn't seem to be one that handles that case, yet. :)
19:17 * felher looks into math::bigint... maybe.... :)
19:19 colomon p6's math::bigint module is quite obsolete now.  :)
19:19 felher Nope, no modpow in there :)
19:20 dalek specs: dc8b0a4 | larry++ | S02-bits.pod:
19:20 dalek specs: Revise val() semantics to use MI
19:20 dalek specs:
19:20 dalek specs: And we'll conservatively leave ambiguities ambiguous for now.
19:20 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/dc8b0a4faf
19:20 dalek specs: c4a5930 | larry++ | S02-bits.pod:
19:20 dalek specs: Provide rationale for one-pass parsing
19:20 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/c4a593015d
19:21 TimToady re modpow, see http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation#Perl_6
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19:25 TimToady felher: ^^
19:25 TimToady I only just added that a few days ago
19:25 felher TimToady: Oh, thnx. Yeah, i'll use that :)
19:25 felher TimToady++
19:26 masak oh, so *that's* the hard lesson of source filters!
19:27 TimToady people seldom generalize that lesson sufficiently
19:27 masak I thought it was something like "don't treat language as strings without structure" :)
19:27 TimToady == treat as a different language
19:28 jnthn moritz: ($a ** $d mod $n) if we expose the bigint op as an nqp op then we can probably get the optimizer to do the re-writing of it.
19:29 moritz jnthn: I'll take care of exposing it as nqp op
19:29 TimToady it's not clear whether that should be done unless you know you're in Int
19:30 jnthn TimToady: Oh, I was planning on re-writing at the opcode level
19:30 jnthn TimToady: That implies that we already inlined ** and mod.
19:31 TimToady what if they're floaters?
19:31 jnthn TimToady: What? :)
19:31 jnthn TimToady: As in, floating point?
19:32 TimToady or Rats
19:32 jnthn TimToady: Inlining implies a compile time multiple dispatch.
19:32 jnthn TimToady: That implies static knowledge that we have an Int.
19:32 jnthn TimToady: And that no overriding candidates that'd bust things have been introduced.
19:33 TimToady .oO(gee, how come when I add an Int declaration at line 42, line 8927 doesn't run out of memory?)
19:33 jnthn TimToady: I'm only proposing the transform take place on the (low level) opcodes that operate on bigints.
19:33 TimToady which makes it very mysterious
19:34 TimToady the user now has to predict the behavior of the optmizer
19:34 jnthn Only in so far as gradual typing is mysterious. :)
19:34 TimToady though I suppose one could view it as a strange form of strength reduction
19:34 jnthn TimToady: Maybe I missed something - I thought what moritz was suggesting was replacing two operations with a single, more efficient one.
19:35 TimToady is it always more efficient?
19:35 moritz fsvo "always" :-)
19:35 jnthn :_)
19:36 moritz I know that it'll be always more runtime efficient with a single op in rakudo
19:36 jnthn Even if the operation isn't greatly so, not creating an intermediate result only to throw it away again will be.
19:36 jnthn Ints are GC-able.
19:36 jnthn (And escape analysis etc is a little way off. :))
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19:37 TimToady but maybe it's a bit wrongish to only apply to Int; three Rats or Nums that happen to be integers could also benefit
19:37 moritz jnthn: btw did you see my comments on the zavolaj tests under linux?
19:38 TimToady so maybe you should *always* turn it into a modexp of some sort, and let it decide
19:38 moritz TimToady: doing that optimization for three floats that happen to be int could change the result
19:38 TimToady as in make it more correct? :P
19:38 moritz because they can overflow in the ** part
19:38 moritz aye :-)
19:38 moritz fsvo "correct" :-)
19:43 TimToady certainly FatRats should always produce an exact result
19:44 TimToady well, at least with integer powers
19:44 TimToady FatRat ** Int % FatRat should be exact
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19:49 TimToady btw, I think http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Modular_exponentiation#Perl_6 really shines in helping the reader understand the algorithm
19:49 TimToady assuming they know how 'repeat' and assignops work...
19:51 moritz aye; reads much nicer than the libtommath code :-)
19:52 dalek nqp: 97760d4 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
19:52 dalek nqp: nqp::expmod_I
19:52 dalek nqp: review: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/97760d4540
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20:13 felher aye
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20:20 sorear good * #perl6
20:20 felher o/ sorear
20:21 masak sorear! \o/
20:28 masak perl6: say "foo" ~~ / f (o) $0 /
20:28 p6eval niecza v13-285-g83e8bea: OUTPUT«#<match from(0) to(3) text(foo) pos([#<match from(1) to(2) text(o) pos([].list) named({}.hash)>].list) named({}.hash)>␤»
20:28 p6eval ..pugs b927740: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤    unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤    eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HAND…
20:28 p6eval ..rakudo 5bc4fd: OUTPUT«=> <foo>␤ 0 => <o>␤␤»
20:30 masak in Perl 5, having backreferences be spelled $1 rather than \1 would require a special case, because the "natural" thing for Perl 5 to do would be to interpolate the *last* $1 during regex compilation.
20:31 fsergot joined #perl6
20:32 masak the \1 backreferences come from sed, right?
20:32 jnthn buubot_backup: eval print "foo" =~ /f(o)$0/
20:32 buubot_backup jnthn: 1
20:33 jnthn er :)
20:33 jnthn buubot_backup: eval print "foo" =~ /f(o)$1/
20:33 buubot_backup jnthn: o1
20:33 masak it works? great. :)
20:33 jnthn buubot_backup: eval print "foo" =~ /f(o)\1/
20:33 buubot_backup jnthn: o1
20:33 masak (no print needed)
20:34 jnthn oh!
20:35 moritz buubot_backup: eval 'foo' =~ /f(o)\1/; $&
20:35 buubot_backup moritz: foo
20:36 moritz buubot_backup: eval 'foo' =~ /f(o)$1/; $&
20:36 buubot_backup moritz: fo
20:36 moritz buubot_backup: use warnings; eval 'foo' =~ /f(o)$1/; $&
20:36 buubot_backup moritz: Couldn't match input.
20:36 moritz buubot_backup: eval use warnings; 'foo' =~ /f(o)$1/; $&
20:36 buubot_backup moritz: Use of uninitialized value $1 in regexp compilation at (eval 20) line 1. fo
20:36 sorear eval 2
20:36 buubot_backup sorear: 2
20:37 masak ah; moritz++
20:37 masak so they don't work.
20:38 moritz eval use warnings; $_= 'fo'; s/(o)/\1$1/; $_
20:38 buubot_backup moritz: \1 better written as $1 at (eval 20) line 1. foo
20:41 masak right, so "use \1 here, use $1 there" :)
20:42 masak or, as A05 has it, "Tell me again, when do I say \1, and when do I say $1? Why are they different?"
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21:02 * flussence is currently crawling through two screens of gdb asm dumps and scary 128-bit code... trying to get my browser to not crash on the nyan cat YT video
21:03 pat_js joined #perl6
21:04 flussence I can't really complain about rakudo's lack of error message line numbers after this :)
21:05 zby_home joined #perl6
21:06 * masak can :)
21:08 rsimoes1 Has Scheme's numeric tower ever been looked at for Perl 6?
21:09 rsimoes1 abstracting numeric type relationships away from the system's representation of them is a pretty neat idea
21:10 rsimoes1 http://www.r6rs.org/final/html/r6rs/r6rs-Z-H-6.html
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21:13 tadzik something broke panda
21:14 * tadzik golfing
21:14 jnthn oh crap, I removed the bamboo!
21:14 zjmarlow joined #perl6
21:15 jnthn tadzik: What's the failure mode?
21:15 tadzik rakudo: https://gist.github.com/1623088
21:15 p6eval rakudo 5bc4fd: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to '$v'; expected 'Mu' but got 'Command'␤  in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:5142␤  in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:4335␤  in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:4335␤  in method gimme at src/gen/CORE.setting:4699␤  in…
21:15 tadzik jnthn: as above
21:15 jnthn WTF?!
21:16 tadzik you have a kickass machine, you bisect it :P
21:17 * tadzik peeks at CORE.setting
21:17 jnthn tadzik: Needn't, I already know where it is
21:17 tadzik cool
21:21 PerlJam surely that would have been caught by a failed test?
21:24 jnthn PerlJam: You'da thunk so
21:24 masak rsimoes1: Perl 6 has more of a "numeric comb" -- everything's Numeric, and then there are subtypes under that.
21:24 jnthn tadzik: Any chance of a test?
21:24 masak rsimoes1: I don't think anyone ever considered a tower. seems a bit too abstract for Perl 6, perhaps.
21:25 masak rsimoes1: people sometimes have the expectation that an Int will be a Num or a Rat.
21:26 tadzik jnthn: surely
21:26 rsimoes1 in the tower, an Int isa Number and does Rat, does Real, does Complex
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: e700b91 | jnthn++ | src/core/ (2 files):
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: Fix regression in usage message generation introduced by workaround for usage message generation when working around changes to Parameter.
21:26 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e700b9159a
21:26 pat_js joined #perl6
21:27 tadzik wait, wat
21:27 jnthn It's, er, what happened. :)
21:28 rsimoes1 I guess the tower is mapped to the numeric set relations
21:28 sorear rsimoes1: niecza's overload resolution mechanism was conciously modeled on the r(5)rs numeric now
21:28 rsimoes1 oh, groovy
21:29 sorear s/now/tower/
21:29 sorear I still haven't read r6rs
21:29 sorear "I feel old"
21:29 rsimoes1 the tower was preserved in r6rs
21:29 rsimoes1 so that's a relief =]
21:29 masak rsimoes1: right, people sometimes expect the Perl 6 numeric type system to map to numeric set relations. it doesn't.
21:31 rsimoes1 complex is non-real, right?
21:31 sorear right
21:32 rsimoes1 eh, easy enough to remember
21:35 dalek specs: 962cd09 | sorear++ | S03-operators.pod:
21:35 dalek specs: [S03] fix tiny typo
21:35 dalek specs: review: https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/962cd093aa
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22:16 dalek roast: ab726ff | tadzik++ | S06-other/main-usage.t:
22:16 dalek roast: Add a test for a freshly discovered regression
22:16 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ab726ff915
22:24 jnthn tadzik: Thanks. :)
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22:36 donaldh Hi jnthn
22:37 jnthn o/ donaldh
22:37 donaldh I'm just reading today's irc log about Zavolaj
22:37 jnthn :)
22:37 donaldh I _had_ sqlite working with zavolaj v1.
22:38 jnthn donaldh: OK. In theory, it should not be a difficult port. If it is, I'd like to understand why so I can fix things.
22:38 donaldh Yep, I'm just reading v2 to understand it.
22:39 jnthn (e.g. is native('...') is still the same, OpaquePointer is still there, etc.)
22:39 jnthn Arrays changed somewhat.
22:40 donaldh If you look at branch out_params on github, I used 'is rw' to mark out params.
22:40 donaldh sub sqlite3_open_v2( Str $filename, OpaquePointer $ppDB is rw, Int $flags, Str $zVfs )
22:41 donaldh It was a bit hacky because I was learning and seemed to be hitting issues with parrot NCI at the time.
22:42 jnthn Oh... :)
22:42 jnthn Yeah, I only got the stuff in Zavolaj 1 master in place.
22:43 jnthn You can hack it by doing:
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22:43 donaldh If I'd 'finished' what I did on out_params I'd have asked you to merge it :)
22:44 jnthn my $ppDB := CArray[Int].new; $ppDB[0] = 0;
22:44 jnthn And then passing that
22:44 jnthn Need to do out params properly really though.
22:44 jnthn Should be easier to do it in a good way now.
22:45 donaldh I think we'll need a new type map for 'is rw' parameters.
22:45 donaldh And maybe some magic to create an instance of the correct type when the pointer is null.
22:46 donaldh Is that possible from a type extracted from a signature?
22:46 donaldh s/from/on/
22:46 jnthn All the stuff I've done so far uses type objects to handle C NULLs.
22:46 jnthn (So yes.)
22:48 sorear o/ donaldh
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22:48 donaldh o/
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22:54 dalek niecza: 0ae0fa0 | (Paweł Murias)++ | / (2 files):
22:54 dalek niecza: Enable specifing list context to p5 subs (we still support only one return value).
22:54 dalek niecza: review: https://github.com/sorear/niecza/commit/0ae0fa0e23
22:56 pmurias sorear: how can we support my $foo=123;eval('print $foo',:lang<perl5>)?
23:09 sorear That's a bit beyond my competence.  Better to ask #p5p
23:11 jnthn niecza: role R { }; my $x = 0; $x does R; say $x.WHAT
23:11 p6eval niecza v13-285-g83e8bea: OUTPUT«Int+R()␤»
23:11 jnthn niecza: role R { }; my $x = 0; $x does R; say 0.WHAT
23:11 p6eval niecza v13-285-g83e8bea: OUTPUT«Int+R()␤»
23:11 jnthn Oops. :)
23:11 jnthn (Rakudo has same issue.)
23:19 dalek roast: 2327d69 | jnthn++ | S14-roles/mixin.t:
23:19 dalek roast: Unfudge a test for Rakudo. Along the way, make it not attempt to mix in to constants (which should fail, but currently doesn't in Rakudo nor Niecza).
23:19 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/2327d69df9
23:19 dalek rakudo/nom: 44d5f15 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
23:19 dalek rakudo/nom: Implement 0 but Answer(42) style of mixing in (for does also).
23:19 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/44d5f15d5e
23:20 sorear urp, I thought I fixed that alreay
23:24 jnthn sorear: How are you planning to fix it?
23:24 jnthn That is, how to we decide what we can/can't mix in to?
23:24 jnthn Rakudo has had a "fix me" comment there for months...
23:28 sorear jnthn: I mean I thought I fixed the test :)
23:29 jnthn sorear: oh :)
23:29 sorear my best idea for the real issue has been an 'Immutable' tag role
23:29 sorear incidentally, I need this for constant folding too
23:29 jnthn My word, these trait tests are bitrotten
23:35 jnthn Yeah, the constant folder I started hacking on the other day mostly went off "do we have a known compile time value for this thingy", which is too loose.
23:39 dalek roast: 60cabaf | jnthn++ | S14-traits/routines.t:
23:39 dalek roast: Correct routine trait test (which didn't even parse!) and todo one test for Rakudo.
23:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/60cabaf5e1
23:39 dalek roast: ebfbce1 | jnthn++ | S14-traits/attributes.t:
23:39 dalek roast: Fix a concatenation that was presumably meant to be a smartmatch operator.
23:39 dalek roast: review: https://github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ebfbce1a89
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: fb11366 | jnthn++ | src/core/Attribute.pm:
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Add missing accessor to Attribute.
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/fb113662ef
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: 77e31ae | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: Turn on a couple of traits tests.
23:39 dalek rakudo/nom: review: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/77e31aee31
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